I’m 67 and waited 30 years to re-enter the bike scene whilst raising kids. Having never had a Harley, and always admiring them, I bought my first one two years ago. Taking some time to figure out what I wanted, and three Harleys later, I’m now on a 2020 Ultra Limited that I bought from an independent retailer, not an HD dealership. It’s my dream bike and I can’t believe I’d ever want something else. And I’ll tell you, I’d never buy a bike from a Harley dealer again. Ever. They have become exceedingly greedy and abusive toward buyers.
Harley as a trucker reminds me of Peterbilt. There are more efficient trucks on the road. But that big long square hood and chrome stacks that are timeless and iconic to people.
I am 57 years old and own 4 EVO powered harleys (two baskets - an 89 springer and 91 fatboy, an 93 FLTSC - evo softail cruiser and a 92 FLHS - electraglide tourer). I have ridden Hondas and Ducatis. They are great bikes. Traditionally the fit and finish on Harley's are better, and the RIDING EXPERIENCE - even on the rubber glides - are VISCERAL. Just the right amount of vibe, gobs of torque, and predicatable reliable handling. Not world beating, but predictable. And the product line has enough variance (at least in the softail, dyna, touring frame days) to please everyone. And if you can't get what you want, you can make it your own. This is a close to "lean customization" (I am an engineer) running as close to an open source architecture as we have seen in mass market transportation. Please note that I am not a "biker" - I ride all motorcycles, and I would LOVE to have a Moto Guzzi. I think my favorite HD product was my 2013 Dyna Fatbob - great handling, relatively light weight for a "sport cruiser" - with a stage two kit, and a seat and bars and floorboards added after. It was my "modern FLH" - beautiful to look at and fun to ride. Thanks for covering this topic.
I think the huge aftermarket choices are one of Harley's draws. Anything Evo (84) and up are "Big Boy Legos". Almost anyone can build a "custom" motorcycle with no fabrication skills. And people want to "personalize" their bikes. Even though a million owners are building slight variations of the same thing. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It powers a large industry that feeds thousands of peoples families, and gives riders a sense of kinship with their machine. Personally I prefer nearly stock bikes or full fabricated choppers. Lucky for me, I can show up at an event with either and no one is going to berate me for my choices. It's a wonderful world.
I disagree because the fit and finish on any Harley is very low. Heck for they fell apart so often I literally met Harley riders in Home Depot looking for and getting the same basic low scale nuts and bolts. Dealers tell owners to go to HD. Visited a HD during Daytona Bike week and meet many Harley riders there in the hardware section. Harley relied on the sales pitch of. "Buy American sicne the World Wars." Which they have not been now for years.
Of course a Guzzi is your other desire. These are two of the “loosest” brands when it comes to connection to the road. They feel like my 85 suburban with 90 degrees of play in the steering, floating along on marshmallow suspension components. How you could have ridden any Ducati with crisp precise feedback and prefer a 90’s Hog I cannot fathom. But you are not alone, so please help me understand what I’m missing…
Said this better than I could. After owning a bunch of bikes from sport bikes to dual sports and everything in between, I just bought my first HD, and am actually looking forward to the ownership experience more than any of the prior ones.
I have never owned a Harley and possibly never will but I appreciate their place in our motorcycle history and hope they continue to be a significant player.
I have two bikes, 2019 HD Ultra, and a 2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250SA, which is highly upgraded. I ride 15k - 20k miles a year. at the end of the day we must ride what emotionally attracts us. I had a test ride experience on a 2023 BMW K1600 GT. I was test riding with my wife, the dealership test tide leader was a retired CHP motor Sgt., Im a retired Stockton PD motor officer. After talking a little about our careers and riding he says "I'm going to take you on a real test ride". A short distance later we accessed a 25 mph corkscrew on ramp to I-80 at about 60+ mph, then rolled up to 120 entering the freeway. My wife later commented, " I thought my head was going to scrape the road". All on a bike I had ridden for two blocks, and with a passenger. The point being the bike was incredible at doing its job, almost without me. It didn't need me, it was "soulless" As great as the K1600 GT was I still don't have a strong desire to own one. I enjoy tiding the HD because it reminds me of being on the police Road King. I enjoy riding the Bandit because it reminds me of my dad's GS1100, also highly upgraded. The only other bike that really attracts me is the Triumph Bonneville. Why? as a kid I remember my dad and uncle street racing Triumph's and BSA's
I love and still own the only bike I ever bought new, an 1987 1/2 FLST-Special. I love all bikes cause it just so fun to see how all the manufacturers put there ideas out to market and get the 2 wheeled job done. Singles, twins, triples etc... Each bike gets the job done but each in so much a different way. It's fun. In short, I hope the bike you own & ride puts a smile on your face everytime you throw a leg over it. Mine does, hope yours does too.
Thank you for the kind reply. On my "To do" list is to ride a foot clutch/tank shift Harley and ride my late uncles' 2018 Ural 2-WD. With both I want to experience the most memorable yet terrifying 45 MPH of my life. 😃
A rabid MotoGP fan with a fleet of superbikes - I've never owned an HD. But seeing Kyle Wyman beat Tyler Ohara in that incredibly close final lap of the 2023 King of Baggers race at Road America, with the intensity of screaming at the big screen monitor with the throng of beer toting pirates going ape shit behind me in the grandstand was overwhelming. If you watch the official video of that race you'll see Kyle lean his bike against the wall and run along the turn-5 fence high-fiving fans until he was was completely out of breath. Mine was the first hand he slapped and it was seriously one of the most moving experiences of my life. Made me sure I'll own a Harley some day, just to be a member of that camp.
The older gentleman speaking about the Indian with the light green paint job reminded me of a couple years ago I was heading back from TOTD and pulled into a hotel and checked in. I went back out front for a smoke and that color Indian pulled up with light brown seat with matching saddlebags. I swear I sat out there for 3 hours staring at it. It was beautiful.
I am relatively new to the biking scene. I’ve wanted a Harley ever since i can remember. I bought my first Harley 2 years ago at 58 years old. And now i see. Yes it is a lifestyle! I’ve put over 30k miles on in about a year
@@gtestastretta1 wow. Harley riders own other bikes. Stop being a douchebag and let riders enjoy what they want to ride. It doesn’t impact you. If I ever see you on my channel, I’ll block you.
@mountainmandale1587 What even are you chatting about? My 2010 flhtcu has 105k miles on it. It still ran with less than 2% leak down on compression testing. Only tore into it to replace cam tensioner shoes and decided it was as good a time as any for a big bore kit. Rides great! At 30k I'm usually replacing a rear tire (double dark)
During the AMF days a friend on his CB750 struck up a conversation with a Gold Wing Rider at a gas station. My friend couldn't help but notice the large Harley Davidson Logo on the back of the Goldwing riders jacket and asked why. "I own a Harley Dealership but today i want to just ride and not work on a bike."
The amount of “profoundnesses” that sprang forth from you guys’ discussion in this episode was astounding - Bravo!!! 👍👍 From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
I've been a rider for over 50 years and have considered buy a Harley on several occasions. What stops me each time from pulling the trigger is the image of the "typical" Harley rider. Or as my wife puts it, "You're just not a Harley type of guy." As much as I like Harleys and I would love to be able to tap into their massive dealer network as well as the huge aftermarket support, I would more likely buy an Indian because of the different image I would project as an Indian owner. So yes, image does so much to motivate buyers.
Americans love the idea of instant chequebook culture. I have no interest in the cosplay, I'm not a Boomer, I don't want to listen to Steppenwolf the rest of my life. My biggest problem is that they really aren't good motorcycles, especially their air cooled Sportster. I don't see the appeal of foot forward controls and I have no interest in being another asshole on a loud bike. And sorry, they aren't reliable. But Americans buy marketing, so there is really no point in making a good bike when people buy marketing.
It's all the power of propaganda. Americans will blow hard earned money on expensive junk if it's popular. Me...I buy a bike for many many reasons and they don't cover any of them.
I love my four Evos. I like my three beemers, a Ducati, a GasGas, a Husky, and a KTM. New Harleys? Nah, the older stuff for me. All time favorite bike -- FXR.
It was ...so much so that Harley sued Yamaha because it too was using a single pin air cooled V-Twin. I had a 2006, which blew away the similar softail platform because they had the 88ci twin cam, compared to the Star's much bigger 1700cc power plant. Mine had V&H Longshots and sounded great!
@ronfriedman8740 I've got a roadstar warrior and a harley ultra classic. Love both. For a truly ripping ride I take my concours 14. Different tools for different jobs
It's your roads, from my visits I can see how a lazy v twin would be really good. Europe's roads are very different, there are some US roads that are similar, but they're far rarer than the large, mostly straight ones.
Folks were still into that mindset that a real Harley was strictly an air cooled V-Twin. Not only that, it was a Porsche designed engine, so no self-respecting harley rider would ride a German bike. Nowadays, H-D uses parts from around the world and the M8 has liquid cooled heads...go figure!
@freebehindbars8654 You want character? Ride a Moto Guzzi, plus they stop and handle better than anything HD ever made. Also, you won't see one at every stop sign.
Not the first big manufacturing corporation to make more money off financing than product. But then look how some of them have failed, spacifically General Motors and General Electric. Most motorcycles are sold as a luxury item, not a transportation item. As such no one should ever buy one on time. If you cant afford to pay cash for a bike, you can't afford a bike. Harley Davidson is one economic downturn away from crisis. With Harley an economy in resessioin would mean slower sales compounded with defaults on $30,000 bike loans.
@@jerryandnancywertzbaugher7778 Since the Plandemic there has been a shortage of Repo Men.. so HD Corporate is forcing Dealers to Repo Bikes that the owners are behind on the payments.
@@jonnycando I got a loan for my 79 Z-28 Camaro $7,190.00 new $2,500 down paid it off in 2.5 years it was a 3 year loan. I paid cash for my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 $7,400.00 out the door.. I got a low Interest Loan from Yamaha on my 2006 Yamaha Attack $9,500.00 Snowmobile. I used a low Interest Credit card to purchase a new 2014 Skidoo Rev 800 $11,000.00 but I out I guess $500 down on snow check on both sleds for the purchase price would have been plus the $500 Deposit.
You Both have lots of knowledge of motorcycles and of the individuals who ride them and not only knowledge but experience.Thank You,really,really enjoyed watching
Eric Buell , Project Nova ,, HD spent $116 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory .. Now they are losing Millions on the Livewire.. HD spent $400 Million to shut down the Modern Kansas City plant. HD lost $85 Million in 2022 and $117 Million in 2023 on their electric bikes.
Is this why the most popular bike in jap is Harley Davidson .. there is a company in Japan called Trijya that buys new Harley's from Milwaukee , rebadged them with the name Trijya and sells them back to americans for double the money .... There are already Trijya dealerships on the west coast
This is exactly the reason why Ive owned probably 2 dozen bikes in my 55 years and not one of them was a harley. Im just too into the engineering aspect and the capability of bikes. I took my brother's harley for a ride one day after he forced me to and I was shocked at how heavy, lethargic and awkward it was. Far worse then I expected. I was so paranoid at slow speeds that id drop it, felt like I was trying to maneuver a drunk elephant. Having said that, I do really like the way those sporter bikes look. Im guessing theyd handle far better as well.
@@Jojo-o6o6w Harleys have their place. I find low-speed manouvers on an FLH (with the steep head angle) are easy and intuitive. If you rode one of the more raked-out models I’m sure it was different experience. So yeah, I like motorcycles. Harley is a brand of motorcycle. But it’s not the only brand, and there are other brands far better in certain ways.
@@BillLaBrie correct... im not sure the model but it was a long low heavy pig of a bike. Even tho Im in my 50s now I still like to ride to my limit here and there so Im still buying sport bikes and motocross bikes for my local track. Maybe when Im even older Ill get a harely of some kind.
KC has always been my favorite part of Cycle World! I have only owned Japanese motorcycles until a month ago. I bought an 07 Dyna with a 120R engine and it is a real beast! I like all bikes.
I've owned 2-stroke dirt bikes, a couple GSX-R's over the years and now it's all about cruisers. a VTX1300R which is a fantastic bike done up like a Street glide & 3 Harleys a 14 Ultra, 14 Slim & 18 Fatboy. All are great for different reasons & all are keepers.
It's more than a machine. You don't ride specifications, but you do ride for the experience of it and Harley has evolved it's machines into a unique riding experience.
One of the best discussions ever. Only thing missing was the influence of the outlaw motorcyclist phenomenon, which through Hollywood and TV has had a huge impact on Harley-Davidson's success once they embraced it instead of fighting it. But that's understandable since Cameron is more of a tech guy than a social studies teacher. 😅
That's an important area of analysis; the "Outlaw image". In 60 years of motorcycling, I've never been attracted to Harley because I've always thought they were too heavy, too slow and too outdated. Retro styling is fine, I own a Triumph Bonneville 1200 T120 after all (along with two vintage Yamahas, a BMW sport tourer and a KLR). However, retro styling with Triumph does not mean obsolete technology. A Harley barrier is the Outlaw image. I simply don't identify with them and none of my rich boomer cycle buddies do either. The Harley image is repugnant for many of us older riders and so yesterday for younger riders. Harley has a real problem with it's aging fan base and it's unaffordable offerings for younger riders.
The outlaw MC thing was more prevalent in the 70s biker culture than it is now. Nobody I know spends 1 second thinking they are an outlaw because they own a Harley. We ride them because we like the V-twin, push-rod, loping experience. And whether you think it's a marketing gimmick or not, Harley's do have soul that you feel when riding. As far as all the other usual complaints regarding outdated technology and being mechanically unreliable...well it's simply not been true for at least 20 years. I'm still putting miles on my 14 Limited that hasn't had any problems other than normal wear and tear. The technology is "outdated" because that's the bike we want, and even with that they are upping their tech game w/ VVT, liquid cooling and onboard electronics. But nobody buys a Harley to red line at the track on weekends. Also I see a whole lot of young guys riding or wanting to ride HD, but they do have a pricing problem. $35k for a new bagger out the door is pushing the envelope.
EXACTLY! To make matters worse HD has gone woke! I never thought I’d say this, but HD has lost me as a customer for good. I sold my last Harley. If I decide to buy another bagger to replace my HD Ultra, it will be an Indian. Harley has lost me as a customer for good.
In 1970 I was 14. I road a bus from CA to Maine. Bought the Cycle Magazine Buyers Guide. I had owned a Suzuki 80 Hillbilly since I was 11. Norton Commando spanked them all in the quarter. I wanted that. By the time I had it in 1977, it wasn't so hot anymore. Especially a Mk III. I still love it E start removsl and all, but for me, it isn't about the bike any more. It is the journey. The trip. A fleet of GS850/1000/1100G were all priced between 3000 and 600 dollars. I could take my brothers along for less than purchasing an image. I'm getting one of my Commandos back on the road. Then the MK III. There are 3 GS1000G readdy to go. I want to go. I dont care what i look like. I drive a Cortina when the weather permits.
All of what was said is true but the appeal of Harley (older HDs) for me is different. Simplicity, power/torque at RPMs most people cruise, great mpg, aftermarket support, low maintenance (air cooled, one carb or throttle body, hydraulic lifters, belt drive, etc)
I have an 06 Springer Classic, it's a work of art but a good motorcycle it is not! The front brake is so bad it's bordering on lethal. I also have an XR1200 Sportster, it's powerful and fast (with the usual caveat of "for a Harley") but the suspension is complete crap. For me it's unacceptable that "premium" motorcycles need money spent on them to make them usable but still mediocre compared to other brands. I bought into the Harley dream/ lifestyle and regret it. I will never buy another Harley even though there are a couple of current models I like. My next motorcycle will be a Royal Enfield.
Sportster is a Sportster, then they ruined with the Sportster S and then even did themselves more damage by discontinuing the Sportster. Huge Mistake, makes them seem very out of touch with what people want or love. They are sinking all their efforts into these stupid electric and off road bikes, oh and baggers, all they sell is baggers. No more choppers, or Sportsters, it's all geezer gliders and saddle sofas. Sad really. I'll love HD till I die, but they need to stop thinking social credit score and think about what built them and that's old fashioned motorcycles that people LOVE.
@DuaneWilson-ro1pn , I changed the fluid and brake pads when I got it, I didn't notice an improvement and recently I changed the brake lines. However, part of the issue was me, operator error. I've changed my braking bias to from 75% front and 25% rear to the opposite. While the brakes are average, I no longer feel under-braked and panicked. Besides, as I found out in a real pucker up moment, hard front brake application on my Springer, makes the front tuck under. You only do that once 😆.
Remember ‘Bronson’s Rock’? Every week on the TV series Then Came Bronson, Michael Parks rode into a new town on his Sportster and the weekly villain would run him off the road in some way or another and set up the conflict for the episode. Inevitably, before the ending of that weeks episode, Bronson would have found a rock and completely repaired the bike to ride into the sunset of the next weeks episode. That rock could fix anything!
You guys are so right how design, color and texture is a major factor on resonating with a potential customer. I wasn't shopping for a new bike, but when i got a look at the 2020 1050XT V-Strom where the styling tied in design details from their '83-'85 GS1100/GS1150's, as well as their Dr. Big 800 rally- winning bike, and finally in the pearl brilliant white/glass blaze orange, which connects back to the Marlboro and McClaren F1 team colors, I got really interested. I've had a lot of Suzukis and had some of my best racing and riding experiences on them, so getting interested wasn't too hard, but it was the emotion of the design and color that brought me in, and all the technical and performance aspects sealed the deal. The same bike offered in RM-yellow with gold rims nearly makes me gag. Thanks!
I can't say I have ever had the urge to own a Harley. However I do recall one time walking through Sandwich in England with a group of friends probably around 1969 or 1970 and hearing this chugga, chugga sound coming from the old Toll Bridge as it was back then and around the corner comes an old boy on what I think was an electra glide. It was the most exotic thing we had ever seen. Back then most bikes were Triumphs, Nortons or BSA and anything above 500cc was a superbike. A bike with a 1200cc engine was mind blowing. Not many cars had over 1000cc engines.
KOTB Racing is uniquely American with Indian and Harley. Some have called for other manufacturers to be included but I am not one of them. I love the fact that it is distinctly American and we own it! Ride American Ride Indian!
I think that for me, it's just Americana to want to wrench on things. That's why at 60 years old and wanting to get another motorcycle, having lost my need for speed, I chose to buy a 2004 Road King Custom. I love to wrench on bikes as much as I love riding them. I didn't want a bike that didn't need me to fix some stuff. I wanted nostalgia, I wanted to ride something that still needed me to take care of it and do some wrenching. Great video, thanks!
How about an episode on the race/escalation of the big Japanese 4 cylinder bikes in the early 1970's? CB750, Z1, Suzuki GS, Yamaha XS1100, GoldWing, etc?
I have owned and still own many different motorcycles, off road and street for the past 45 years. One of my favorite current bikes is a 2010 Road King, that bike hustles faster on back roads than it should, glides for hours at 85mph and never wears me out....As a bonus I get to take all of my crap with me and have the choice of windshield or not, sissy bar or not, rear rack or not.
@@freebehindbars8654 Only 3% of Drivers License Holders have a motorcycle Endorsement. My Camaro has 54,000 miles on it and it's in to storage.. I would like to do an LS swap .. put in a 4 ling Dana 60 rear axle .. bigger 4 wheel disc brakes rool cage and an LS engine swap set up to run on E-85
The first time I rode my 2021 Road Glide Special I could not believe the torque and smoothness of the ride. The lower center of gravity made handling a breeze. I purchased a slightly taller windscreen and the riding experience got better. I added a Tall Boy Seat and Tall Boy handlebars and the riding experience got even better. I got some TAB Performance Bam Sticks and the riding experience improved even more. Now my riding time is a pure joy; the look, sound and feel of my bike as I go down beautiful country roads reminds me of all the other riders that have enjoyed their Harley’s for over a hundred years.
Great show gentlemen As a life long Harley-Davidson owner, rider & enthusiasts, I was pleased to hear your insight on this sometime misunderstood subject. I think you hit this elusive nail squarely & fairly on the head 🤔
I love motorcycles. Harleys Suzuki Yamaha Kawasaki moto guzzi Triumph, if it puts a smile on you as soon as put leg over it , buy it. And dont stop riding it.
I have a few motorcycles. Rz 350, rc 51, drz 400 and a beta 500 rs. I don't have a Harley. But I have always been a Harley fan. Despite the AMF epoch. I would love to own a xr 750. But I do have a 84 vw gti that was owned by the son of evel. It's highly modified and fun. And seems to have a special energy. Motorcycles are a special experience. Good for an old bicycle mechanic and track racer. The spirit is the same.
Brilliant video - all those backgrounders, phantastic! Not only explained Kevin Cameron in an excellent way the tech details of the engines, also the "reasons why" and the relations to other influencing areas. Really good!!! IMHO a not mentioned reason for the sales in Europe, Japan is that you not only buy a lifestyle, but you buy the original. aka if I wanna buy a Rolex, I get myself one and NEVER one of the many lookalikes. That´s why a Japanese chopper, bagger etc. - how well designed ever - will not succeed. What I really would like is a second part of this video, maybe titled with "Will HD be able to sell Millions in the near future?" Because you stopped your discussion before the TwinCam and M8 engines. And I really wanna hear the thoughts of Mr. Cameron on the disaster of the M8 after launch. The woke Zeitz of Germany you can gladly leave out ...
Hd was big in my family, dad bought the first year sportster and only sold it when I was born(I wouldn’t have). My first was an sx125 that was technically road leagal even if I wasn’t allowing me to get my first job out of walking distance. 74 440 snowmobile which was a TrueType fine beast. 81 flt frame mounted fairing crazy reliable even the chain ran in an oil bath that if oil changed at the enigine lasted till I sold it in the middle nineties for the same price I paid for it in the first place. Bought the first evo sportster which I still have to this day(favorite bike)
I like all types of motorcycles. Ride what you want. Harleys are great for cruising down the road. Comfortable on long trips. Very versatile to a point.
You're talking about Metric Cruisers not capturing sales. This is true, but I bought my 2008 Suzuki M 109R Boulevard about 12 years ago. I ride with many Harley riders, they all spent between $4,000 & $5,000 on their engines to hop them up. That's after spending $15,000 - $20,000 for their bikes, they still could not out perform my $8,000 suzuki! Things are finally changing with Harley, mostly to meet emissions, but this has also allowed them to get the performance they have badly needed to keep up and surpass the competition! They almost waited too long to make these changes in my opinion, as their sales were really waning in the past 5 to 10 years, they have came out with some really nice and powerful bike.
The R18 in my opinion did not sell very well because they designed a bike nobody over 6ft could truly be comfortable on, I know this because I tried for 6 months after getting one for a bargain. It was a bargain because BMW's other mistake was trying to sell a base trim cruiser for $17k you could not customize without taking out a loan. A true shame!
I've been around probably more Harleys than any other bike. I've never for a second wanted to own one. It's probably because I don't like noise and it seems like noise is mainly what they're good for. I love a quiet bike and even stock Harleys are not quiet.
Kind of. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the company as a whole, they still sell plenty of bikes and discontinuing Sportsters was a huge mistake.
I own a KTM1290S, but I'm getting close to retirement (comes to us all) and all of a sudden cruisers look like something I might actually want to own... maybe it's just the onset of early dementia.
At 50k miles my 2019 HD Ultra Limited destroyed its engine due to an inadequate oiling system . warranty is putting a brand new engine in. even at that I'm still 50/50 if ill keep it. Great motorcycles if you upgrade everything
I've had 4 of em. Back when I was young and stupid. Wanna bee's ride Harleys today for the most part. Experience showed me how poorly engineered they were compared to any other bike I've owned. The damn things are as plentiful as F150's.
@@Scott-sb1xi I agree, you get very little performance for the money. Mostly an image brand. They do have some performance bikes but cost 2x what the competition does.
thats why this time I bought the 2024 low rider st my baggers were too heavy mine cost 30k from maui with zero options payed cash. love it. big island been riding since the 70s my first true love was a XLCH I was a 14 kid riding on the back of the galloping gooses mc being friends from my best friends older brother. c ya
And today they’re not american anymore. so I bought a Polaris Indian. Simple. It’s better, too. HD5 bikes are not serviced here and not build in USA. Not that it’s better technically made in USA, but if I want a indian manufactured bike or a thai, I buy such a bike, not a Harley. The PanAm got excellent reviews by paid influencers, the bikes are sheit, international dealers have them standing flat in their shop. And you don’t see them on the street like any other chinese-italian, german, austrian, english big trailer. They might sell in the US, thx to the Brand, but the technical market in Europe has technical customers, not fools. The rider of that harley is looking for parts in that old defunct factory, unless he’s wasted all his money on parts and now needs to sleep on the floor protected by a defunct factory.
[non-Harley] Suggestion - Could you review the Best Open Class UJM of All Time, the GSF1200S? I have owned three Gen 1's, have raced them, built them, and toured Coast-to-Coast on them. Clark Kent in Stock configuration, the bike becomes Superman when slightly modified. What's the design history?
Bought my first Harley in 1978. It was a ‘72 Sportster 1000 kick start only. I ride daily. I have owned Harley’s ever since. Every now and then I consider other makes and go test ride them. I even bought a BMW S1000RR and rode it for a while but kept a Road King and sold the Beemer. Harleys seem to be in my blood.
I love my Softail Heritage 114. Just put on some TAB chrome slip on exhausts. I skipped the bogus Screaming Eagle Street Tuner. The ECM on my bike adjusts for the aftermarket pipes. It runs a bit richer is all. The O2 sensors can handle the mod. Saved me $400. Now I do think the EPA is trying to kill the HD market with choking the M8 on emissions rules. The EPA is determined to kill the motorcycle market for cruisers.
I learned to ride on an Electra Glide classic. An 08. Then I bought a 22 RG. I did stage 1&2. It’s never given me a single problem, it’s 101 hp on the dyno and 119 torque and me and my wife have a blast together on it. For a short time I had a tuono. I don’t miss it. Once I left the dealership I have never needed anything. I love it and I am going to ride it as long as I can. I will never understand the hate. I am always smiling and having fun on it, and I don’t know how that could be a problem.
I bought the first r18 my local dealer received. I tried everything to make it work for me and gave up. Traded it in on a Harley at a huge loss but was thrilled not to own it .
Road from age 10 to now at 66. I have had 4 Harleys, 4 Hondas, 4 Yamahas, 1 Kalisaky . After dealing with mobile HD I may never buy a new HD again. I think I will get a BMW R18 NEXT. They have reverse.
I've owned 4 new harleys and 3 used ones. I now ride a kawasaki z900rs and a Vstrom XT 1050. Harley is a lifestyle...not a technical motorcycle. I've rode them from Halifax to Key West and Arizona. I'm just not interested in that style of bike anymore. Too expensive and the same old same old every day. The z900rs is 400 lbs lighter, light years faster and generations smoother.
I asked my wife if my 50 year obsession with motorcycles had anything to do with love. She said I was fooling myself if I thought it was anything else.
Be interesting to see how the buyers respond (in the long term) with the tv screen virtual speedo/tacho setup Couple that with the supposed ongoing expense to access the navigation, etc. RUB's will be the only riders left cosplaying weekend badasses. HD is the disloyal partner - it's basically saying stuff the traditional buyer - We want the luxury buyer.
I rode a FXDX for 19 years, 89000 miles, all uncomfortable. Back breaking ergos unless you have a bagger with a backrest. A bagger with a backrest can be driven all day, and that’s the HD with all the cred.
Didnt the japanese cruisers die because of the tariffs? Isnt the only reason harley stood the test of time and indian didnt was becase of the government?
Absolutely wrong. The tariffs were on 700 cc bikes and above. The Japanese just made 699cc bikes and below to get around the tariffs. And that was in the 1980's. Meanwhile, the Japanese had tariffs on all American products not just motorcycles, and they still have those tariffs on Harley's to this day. Indian went out of business in the 1950's. It had nothing to do with Tariff's.
@@JP-dw1fp cut and paste from Wikipedia Harley-Davidson was the sole surviving American motorcycle manufacturer.[3] All of the companies models in production were heavyweight motorcycles.[4] Before the imposition of the tariff, Harley-Davidson was facing a sharp sales decline, mainly due to the competition of Japanese motorcycle companies. Less than a decade before, Harley-Davidson had a 100% market share of 1000cc or larger motorcycles within the US.[4] A decade later, its market share had fallen to less than 15%. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki undercut Harley Davidson by 1500-2000 USD per vehicle.[3] In 1980 Harley-Davidson did 289 million USD in sales, which slumped to around 200 million USD in just two years. Employees also saw a harsh decline in wages and hours worked. The unsold inventory of bikes doubled during the time period, again due to the undercutting of Japanese counterparts.
@JP-dw1fp In March 1987, Harley Davidson made an "unprecedented action", and requested the removal of the tariff. "We no longer need tariff relief to compete," said Vaughn L. Beals Jr., Harley-Davidson's chairman and CEO.The tariff was removed by Ronald Regan on October 9, 1987, where he claimed the action would not harm the domestic industry.
I’m 67 and waited 30 years to re-enter the bike scene whilst raising kids. Having never had a Harley, and always admiring them, I bought my first one two years ago. Taking some time to figure out what I wanted, and three Harleys later, I’m now on a 2020 Ultra Limited that I bought from an independent retailer, not an HD dealership. It’s my dream bike and I can’t believe I’d ever want something else. And I’ll tell you, I’d never buy a bike from a Harley dealer again. Ever. They have become exceedingly greedy and abusive toward buyers.
Harley as a trucker reminds me of Peterbilt. There are more efficient trucks on the road. But that big long square hood and chrome stacks that are timeless and iconic to people.
Well put
I am 57 years old and own 4 EVO powered harleys (two baskets - an 89 springer and 91 fatboy, an 93 FLTSC - evo softail cruiser and a 92 FLHS - electraglide tourer). I have ridden Hondas and Ducatis. They are great bikes. Traditionally the fit and finish on Harley's are better, and the RIDING EXPERIENCE - even on the rubber glides - are VISCERAL. Just the right amount of vibe, gobs of torque, and predicatable reliable handling. Not world beating, but predictable. And the product line has enough variance (at least in the softail, dyna, touring frame days) to please everyone. And if you can't get what you want, you can make it your own. This is a close to "lean customization" (I am an engineer) running as close to an open source architecture as we have seen in mass market transportation. Please note that I am not a "biker" - I ride all motorcycles, and I would LOVE to have a Moto Guzzi. I think my favorite HD product was my 2013 Dyna Fatbob - great handling, relatively light weight for a "sport cruiser" - with a stage two kit, and a seat and bars and floorboards added after. It was my "modern FLH" - beautiful to look at and fun to ride. Thanks for covering this topic.
I think the huge aftermarket choices are one of Harley's draws.
Anything Evo (84) and up are "Big Boy Legos". Almost anyone can build a "custom" motorcycle with no fabrication skills. And people want to "personalize" their bikes. Even though a million owners are building slight variations of the same thing.
Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It powers a large industry that feeds thousands of peoples families, and gives riders a sense of kinship with their machine.
Personally I prefer nearly stock bikes or full fabricated choppers. Lucky for me, I can show up at an event with either and no one is going to berate me for my choices.
It's a wonderful world.
I disagree because the fit and finish on any Harley is very low. Heck for they fell apart so often I literally met Harley riders in Home Depot looking for and getting the same basic low scale nuts and bolts. Dealers tell owners to go to HD. Visited a HD during Daytona Bike week and meet many Harley riders there in the hardware section.
Harley relied on the sales pitch of. "Buy American sicne the World Wars." Which they have not been now for years.
Of course a Guzzi is your other desire. These are two of the “loosest” brands when it comes to connection to the road. They feel like my 85 suburban with 90 degrees of play in the steering, floating along on marshmallow suspension components. How you could have ridden any Ducati with crisp precise feedback and prefer a 90’s Hog I cannot fathom. But you are not alone, so please help me understand what I’m missing…
Said this better than I could. After owning a bunch of bikes from sport bikes to dual sports and everything in between, I just bought my first HD, and am actually looking forward to the ownership experience more than any of the prior ones.
@@guyhayes5288go ride a modern Lowrider S.
Thank you guys for acknowledging Sugar Bear. For too many people don’t know about his contributions to the motorcycle industry.
I have never owned a Harley and possibly never will but I appreciate their place in our motorcycle history and hope they continue to be a significant player.
I have two bikes, 2019 HD Ultra, and a 2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250SA, which is highly upgraded. I ride 15k - 20k miles a year. at the end of the day we must ride what emotionally attracts us.
I had a test ride experience on a 2023 BMW K1600 GT. I was test riding with my wife, the dealership test tide leader was a retired CHP motor Sgt., Im a retired Stockton PD motor officer. After talking a little about our careers and riding he says "I'm going to take you on a real test ride". A short distance later we accessed a 25 mph corkscrew on ramp to I-80 at about 60+ mph, then rolled up to 120 entering the freeway. My wife later commented, " I thought my head was going to scrape the road". All on a bike I had ridden for two blocks, and with a passenger.
The point being the bike was incredible at doing its job, almost without me. It didn't need me, it was "soulless"
As great as the K1600 GT was I still don't have a strong desire to own one.
I enjoy tiding the HD because it reminds me of being on the police Road King. I enjoy riding the Bandit because it reminds me of my dad's GS1100, also highly upgraded.
The only other bike that really attracts me is the Triumph Bonneville. Why? as a kid I remember my dad and uncle street racing Triumph's and BSA's
Harley Davidson is the worlds largest Cosplay business.
I love and still own the only bike I ever bought new, an 1987 1/2 FLST-Special. I love all bikes cause it just so fun to see how all the manufacturers put there ideas out to market and get the 2 wheeled job done. Singles, twins, triples etc... Each bike gets the job done but each in so much a different way. It's fun. In short, I hope the bike you own & ride puts a smile on your face everytime you throw a leg over it. Mine does, hope yours does too.
Well said!
Thank you for the kind reply. On my "To do" list is to ride a foot clutch/tank shift Harley and ride my late uncles' 2018 Ural 2-WD. With both I want to experience the most memorable yet terrifying 45 MPH of my life. 😃
@@mattmattes3913 OMG! Love it!
Thank You Kevin and Mark for another wonderful podcast. Would really love to hear you guys do a show on John Britten and his V1000.
Hey, great idea and we are working on a Britten podcast now.
A rabid MotoGP fan with a fleet of superbikes - I've never owned an HD. But seeing Kyle Wyman beat Tyler Ohara in that incredibly close final lap of the 2023 King of Baggers race at Road America, with the intensity of screaming at the big screen monitor with the throng of beer toting pirates going ape shit behind me in the grandstand was overwhelming. If you watch the official video of that race you'll see Kyle lean his bike against the wall and run along the turn-5 fence high-fiving fans until he was was completely out of breath. Mine was the first hand he slapped and it was seriously one of the most moving experiences of my life. Made me sure I'll own a Harley some day, just to be a member of that camp.
The older gentleman speaking about the Indian with the light green paint job reminded me of a couple years ago I was heading back from TOTD and pulled into a hotel and checked in. I went back out front for a smoke and that color Indian pulled up with light brown seat with matching saddlebags. I swear I sat out there for 3 hours staring at it. It was beautiful.
I am relatively new to the biking scene. I’ve wanted a Harley ever since i can remember. I bought my first Harley 2 years ago at 58 years old. And now i see. Yes it is a lifestyle! I’ve put over 30k miles on in about a year
I put about the same mileage on my first Harley when I started riding at 43 years old. I’m now 50 and haven’t looked back.
You’re not a motorcyclist, you’re a Harley rider - see South Park so you see what people really think of you.
@@gtestastretta1 wow. Harley riders own other bikes. Stop being a douchebag and let riders enjoy what they want to ride. It doesn’t impact you. If I ever see you on my channel, I’ll block you.
30k? It's just about time to get it rebuilt. Sorry about your luck, but it's just reality.
@mountainmandale1587 What even are you chatting about? My 2010 flhtcu has 105k miles on it. It still ran with less than 2% leak down on compression testing. Only tore into it to replace cam tensioner shoes and decided it was as good a time as any for a big bore kit. Rides great! At 30k I'm usually replacing a rear tire (double dark)
During the AMF days a friend on his CB750 struck up a conversation with a Gold Wing Rider at a gas station. My friend couldn't help but notice the large Harley Davidson Logo on the back of the Goldwing riders jacket and asked why.
"I own a Harley Dealership but today i want to just ride and not work on a bike."
I still ride my 43 + year old AMFs daily without issues and never once had a desire to own a CB750 or a Goldwing.
Nonsense story if I ever heard one.
@@dukecraig2402yeah no way that is BS story
The amount of “profoundnesses” that sprang forth from you guys’ discussion in this episode was astounding - Bravo!!! 👍👍
From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
"It's a life style"-my friend said that 30 years ago. Perfect. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
I've been a rider for over 50 years and have considered buy a Harley on several occasions. What stops me each time from pulling the trigger is the image of the "typical" Harley rider. Or as my wife puts it, "You're just not a Harley type of guy." As much as I like Harleys and I would love to be able to tap into their massive dealer network as well as the huge aftermarket support, I would more likely buy an Indian because of the different image I would project as an Indian owner. So yes, image does so much to motivate buyers.
Americans love the idea of instant chequebook culture. I have no interest in the cosplay, I'm not a Boomer, I don't want to listen to Steppenwolf the rest of my life.
My biggest problem is that they really aren't good motorcycles, especially their air cooled Sportster. I don't see the appeal of foot forward controls and I have no interest in being another asshole on a loud bike. And sorry, they aren't reliable.
But Americans buy marketing, so there is really no point in making a good bike when people buy marketing.
It's all the power of propaganda. Americans will blow hard earned money on expensive junk if it's popular. Me...I buy a bike for many many reasons and they don't cover any of them.
I love my four Evos. I like my three beemers, a Ducati, a GasGas, a Husky, and a KTM. New Harleys? Nah, the older stuff for me. All time favorite bike -- FXR.
FXRS here!
I’m far from an HD fan, but I’m a fan of HD riders who acknowledge the virtues of other bikes as well. Well done!
sounds like a great collection
4 evos, a duck, and 3 ktms
Yamaha RoadStar was a great attempt at a “traditional” Vtwin.
It was ...so much so that Harley sued Yamaha because it too was using a single pin air cooled V-Twin. I had a 2006, which blew away the similar softail platform because they had the 88ci twin cam, compared to the Star's much bigger 1700cc power plant. Mine had V&H Longshots and sounded great!
@ronfriedman8740 I've got a roadstar warrior and a harley ultra classic. Love both. For a truly ripping ride I take my concours 14. Different tools for different jobs
It's your roads, from my visits I can see how a lazy v twin would be really good. Europe's roads are very different, there are some US roads that are similar, but they're far rarer than the large, mostly straight ones.
Harley has been criticized for not advancing technically, but when they did with the V-Rod, they didn't sell.
Because the dumbasses put the motor in a drag bike frame. And it would drag in corners.
Folks were still into that mindset that a real Harley was strictly an air cooled V-Twin. Not only that, it was a Porsche designed engine, so no self-respecting harley rider would ride a German bike. Nowadays, H-D uses parts from around the world and the M8 has liquid cooled heads...go figure!
The “muscle cruiser” has always been a hard sell besides.
V Rod is a fun bike, but lacked the character that most want out of an HD. HD is the only one doing it, like it or not.
@freebehindbars8654 You want character? Ride a Moto Guzzi, plus they stop and handle better than anything HD ever made. Also, you won't see one at every stop sign.
HD makes a lot of money on Financing.. They sell their bikes on payment plans..
Not the first big manufacturing corporation to make more money off financing than product. But then look how some of them have failed, spacifically General Motors and General Electric. Most motorcycles are sold as a luxury item, not a transportation item. As such no one should ever buy one on time. If you cant afford to pay cash for a bike, you can't afford a bike. Harley Davidson is one economic downturn away from crisis. With Harley an economy in resessioin would mean slower sales compounded with defaults on $30,000 bike loans.
@@jerryandnancywertzbaugher7778 Since the Plandemic there has been a shortage of Repo Men.. so HD Corporate is forcing Dealers to Repo Bikes that the owners are behind on the payments.
Lop n e dealership uses this model
They didn’t make so much interest off me, I paid mine off three years early. Just today I got an interest refund check from mother harley!
@@jonnycando I got a loan for my 79 Z-28 Camaro $7,190.00 new $2,500 down paid it off in 2.5 years it was a 3 year loan. I paid cash for my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 $7,400.00 out the door.. I got a low Interest Loan from Yamaha on my 2006 Yamaha Attack $9,500.00 Snowmobile. I used a low Interest Credit card to purchase a new 2014 Skidoo Rev 800 $11,000.00 but I out I guess $500 down on snow check on both sleds for the purchase price would have been plus the $500 Deposit.
You Both have lots of knowledge of motorcycles and of the individuals who ride them and not only knowledge but experience.Thank You,really,really enjoyed watching
Eric Buell , Project Nova ,, HD spent $116 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory .. Now they are losing Millions on the Livewire.. HD spent $400 Million to shut down the Modern Kansas City plant. HD lost $85 Million in 2022 and $117 Million in 2023 on their electric bikes.
There are people who like Harleys, and people who like motorcycles.
100% correct
Is this why the most popular bike in jap is Harley Davidson .. there is a company in Japan called Trijya that buys new Harley's from Milwaukee , rebadged them with the name Trijya and sells them back to americans for double the money .... There are already Trijya dealerships on the west coast
This is exactly the reason why Ive owned probably 2 dozen bikes in my 55 years and not one of them was a harley. Im just too into the engineering aspect and the capability of bikes. I took my brother's harley for a ride one day after he forced me to and I was shocked at how heavy, lethargic and awkward it was. Far worse then I expected. I was so paranoid at slow speeds that id drop it, felt like I was trying to maneuver a drunk elephant. Having said that, I do really like the way those sporter bikes look. Im guessing theyd handle far better as well.
@@Jojo-o6o6w Harleys have their place. I find low-speed manouvers on an FLH (with the steep head angle) are easy and intuitive. If you rode one of the more raked-out models I’m sure it was different experience. So yeah, I like motorcycles. Harley is a brand of motorcycle. But it’s not the only brand, and there are other brands far better in certain ways.
@@BillLaBrie correct... im not sure the model but it was a long low heavy pig of a bike. Even tho Im in my 50s now I still like to ride to my limit here and there so Im still buying sport bikes and motocross bikes for my local track. Maybe when Im even older Ill get a harely of some kind.
KC has always been my favorite part of Cycle World! I have only owned Japanese motorcycles until a month ago. I bought an 07 Dyna with a 120R engine and it is a real beast! I like all bikes.
I've owned 2-stroke dirt bikes, a couple GSX-R's over the years and now it's all about cruisers. a VTX1300R which is a fantastic bike done up like a Street glide & 3 Harleys a 14 Ultra, 14 Slim & 18 Fatboy. All are great for different reasons & all are keepers.
It's more than a machine. You don't ride specifications, but you do ride for the experience of it and Harley has evolved it's machines into a unique riding experience.
Great episode!!!
One of the best discussions ever. Only thing missing was the influence of the outlaw motorcyclist phenomenon, which through Hollywood and TV has had a huge impact on Harley-Davidson's success once they embraced it instead of fighting it. But that's understandable since Cameron is more of a tech guy than a social studies teacher. 😅
That's an important area of analysis; the "Outlaw image". In 60 years of motorcycling, I've never been attracted to Harley because I've always thought they were too heavy, too slow and too outdated. Retro styling is fine, I own a Triumph Bonneville 1200 T120 after all (along with two vintage Yamahas, a BMW sport tourer and a KLR). However, retro styling with Triumph does not mean obsolete technology. A Harley barrier is the Outlaw image. I simply don't identify with them and none of my rich boomer cycle buddies do either. The Harley image is repugnant for many of us older riders and so yesterday for younger riders. Harley has a real problem with it's aging fan base and it's unaffordable offerings for younger riders.
The outlaw MC thing was more prevalent in the 70s biker culture than it is now. Nobody I know spends 1 second thinking they are an outlaw because they own a Harley. We ride them because we like the V-twin, push-rod, loping experience. And whether you think it's a marketing gimmick or not, Harley's do have soul that you feel when riding. As far as all the other usual complaints regarding outdated technology and being mechanically unreliable...well it's simply not been true for at least 20 years. I'm still putting miles on my 14 Limited that hasn't had any problems other than normal wear and tear. The technology is "outdated" because that's the bike we want, and even with that they are upping their tech game w/ VVT, liquid cooling and onboard electronics. But nobody buys a Harley to red line at the track on weekends. Also I see a whole lot of young guys riding or wanting to ride HD, but they do have a pricing problem. $35k for a new bagger out the door is pushing the envelope.
What a load of B.S.
The past 2 CEO's at Harley have not been motorcycle people...
EXACTLY! To make matters worse HD has gone woke! I never thought I’d say this, but HD has lost me as a customer for good. I sold my last Harley. If I decide to buy another bagger to replace my HD Ultra, it will be an Indian. Harley has lost me as a customer for good.
In 1970 I was 14. I road a bus from CA to Maine. Bought the Cycle Magazine Buyers Guide. I had owned a Suzuki 80 Hillbilly since I was 11. Norton Commando spanked them all in the quarter. I wanted that.
By the time I had it in 1977, it wasn't so hot anymore. Especially a Mk III. I still love it E start removsl and all, but for me, it isn't about the bike any more. It is the journey. The trip. A fleet of GS850/1000/1100G were all priced between 3000 and 600 dollars. I could take my brothers along for less than purchasing an image. I'm getting one of my Commandos back on the road. Then the MK III. There are 3 GS1000G readdy to go. I want to go. I dont care what i look like. I drive a Cortina when the weather permits.
my last great scoot was a 1999 standard bagger only engine work was a timing chain at 200,000 km , my son rides it now.
Great videos guys :) thank-you for doing these !
All of what was said is true but the appeal of Harley (older HDs) for me is different. Simplicity, power/torque at RPMs most people cruise, great mpg, aftermarket support, low maintenance (air cooled, one carb or throttle body, hydraulic lifters, belt drive, etc)
Until you go around a corner.
@Scott-sb1xi We have a couple of those in Nebraska...we just slow down a little then so no worries.😊
@@Scott-sb1xi
None of you guy's who think you're Valintino Rossi are, you're just wannabes that dress up in a costume.
@dukecraig2402 Wearing something to protect you in a crash so you can go home to your family afterward is my costume. Nuff said.
I have an 06 Springer Classic, it's a work of art but a good motorcycle it is not! The front brake is so bad it's bordering on lethal. I also have an XR1200 Sportster, it's powerful and fast (with the usual caveat of "for a Harley") but the suspension is complete crap.
For me it's unacceptable that "premium" motorcycles need money spent on them to make them usable but still mediocre compared to other brands.
I bought into the Harley dream/ lifestyle and regret it. I will never buy another Harley even though there are a couple of current models I like.
My next motorcycle will be a Royal Enfield.
Sportster is a Sportster, then they ruined with the Sportster S and then even did themselves more damage by discontinuing the Sportster. Huge Mistake, makes them seem very out of touch with what people want or love. They are sinking all their efforts into these stupid electric and off road bikes, oh and baggers, all they sell is baggers. No more choppers, or Sportsters, it's all geezer gliders and saddle sofas. Sad really. I'll love HD till I die, but they need to stop thinking social credit score and think about what built them and that's old fashioned motorcycles that people LOVE.
U ever tried steel brake lines for front and new fluid
@DuaneWilson-ro1pn , I changed the fluid and brake pads when I got it, I didn't notice an improvement and recently I changed the brake lines. However, part of the issue was me, operator error. I've changed my braking bias to from 75% front and 25% rear to the opposite. While the brakes are average, I no longer feel under-braked and panicked.
Besides, as I found out in a real pucker up moment, hard front brake application on my Springer, makes the front tuck under. You only do that once 😆.
Remember ‘Bronson’s Rock’?
Every week on the TV series Then Came Bronson, Michael Parks rode into a new town on his Sportster and the weekly villain would run him off the road in some way or another and set up the conflict for the episode.
Inevitably, before the ending of that weeks episode, Bronson would have found a rock and completely repaired the bike to ride into the sunset of the next weeks episode. That rock could fix anything!
You guys are so right how design, color and texture is a major factor on resonating with a potential customer. I wasn't shopping for a new bike, but when i got a look at the 2020 1050XT V-Strom where the styling tied in design details from their '83-'85 GS1100/GS1150's, as well as their Dr. Big 800 rally- winning bike, and finally in the pearl brilliant white/glass blaze orange, which connects back to the Marlboro and McClaren F1 team colors, I got really interested. I've had a lot of Suzukis and had some of my best racing and riding experiences on them, so getting interested wasn't too hard, but it was the emotion of the design and color that brought me in, and all the technical and performance aspects sealed the deal. The same bike offered in RM-yellow with gold rims nearly makes me gag. Thanks!
I can't say I have ever had the urge to own a Harley. However I do recall one time walking through Sandwich in England with a group of friends probably around 1969 or 1970 and hearing this chugga, chugga sound coming from the old Toll Bridge as it was back then and around the corner comes an old boy on what I think was an electra glide. It was the most exotic thing we had ever seen. Back then most bikes were Triumphs, Nortons or BSA and anything above 500cc was a superbike. A bike with a 1200cc engine was mind blowing. Not many cars had over 1000cc engines.
I went through my Harley stage, never again!
Never forget walking around Berlin and seeing a Ducati Diavel. Bike had a Mosco licence plate.
HD4LIFE
@@irishguyjg_2ndchancerecovery😂
KOTB Racing is uniquely American with Indian and Harley. Some have called for other manufacturers to be included but I am not one of them. I love the fact that it is distinctly American and we own it! Ride American Ride Indian!
The Indian brand was popular even when there were no new bikes.
Tee shirts for miles.
I think that for me, it's just Americana to want to wrench on things. That's why at 60 years old and wanting to get another motorcycle, having lost my need for speed, I chose to buy a 2004 Road King Custom. I love to wrench on bikes as much as I love riding them. I didn't want a bike that didn't need me to fix some stuff. I wanted nostalgia, I wanted to ride something that still needed me to take care of it and do some wrenching. Great video, thanks!
Very interesting and enjoyable conversation. Thank you gentlemen.
How about an episode on the race/escalation of the big Japanese 4 cylinder bikes in the early 1970's? CB750, Z1, Suzuki GS, Yamaha XS1100, GoldWing, etc?
One simple reason it’s the bags. Got a bagger on trade though I never wanted one. Now it’s all I ride.
I have no desire to ride a motorcycle that is trying to grill my posterior.
What a great episode!
I have owned and still own many different motorcycles, off road and street for the past 45 years. One of my favorite current bikes is a 2010 Road King, that bike hustles faster on back roads than it should, glides for hours at 85mph and never wears me out....As a bonus I get to take all of my crap with me and have the choice of windshield or not, sissy bar or not, rear rack or not.
I have been waiting for Harley to produce an XR 750 for the street since the early 70s , i think it would have sold well .
I also thought that would’ve been the way to go, especially when the „then“ new 500/750 twins were introduced (and recently shelved)
Yea, like the XR 1200 did. Haa, ha,ha
@@Scott-sb1xithe people that wanted one got one and then it was dropped
Well, every time H-D DID produce a truly different or Sporty model, like the XR-1000, the XL 1200 Sport, or the XR1200, they didn't SELL..
You can always buy the XR 750 kit & put it on a 1,000 or a 1,200.
In 1979 General Motors made 288,000 Camaros.. that's just one Model of car.. Not even Firebirds and Trans Ams...
How’s that Camaro doing now? Meanwhile the topic of the video keeps going. Cars have always outsold motorcycles in the the US.
@@freebehindbars8654 Only 3% of Drivers License Holders have a motorcycle Endorsement. My Camaro has 54,000 miles on it and it's in to storage.. I would like to do an LS swap .. put in a 4 ling Dana 60 rear axle .. bigger 4 wheel disc brakes rool cage and an LS engine swap set up to run on E-85
The first time I rode my 2021 Road Glide Special I could not believe the torque and smoothness of the ride. The lower center of gravity made handling a breeze. I purchased a slightly taller windscreen and the riding experience got better. I added a Tall Boy Seat and Tall Boy handlebars and the riding experience got even better. I got some TAB Performance Bam Sticks and the riding experience improved even more. Now my riding time is a pure joy; the look, sound and feel of my bike as I go down beautiful country roads reminds me of all the other riders that have enjoyed their Harley’s for over a hundred years.
Great show gentlemen
As a life long Harley-Davidson owner, rider & enthusiasts, I was pleased to hear your insight on this sometime misunderstood subject.
I think you hit this elusive nail squarely & fairly on the head 🤔
I love motorcycles. Harleys Suzuki Yamaha Kawasaki moto guzzi Triumph, if it puts a smile on you as soon as put leg over it , buy it. And dont stop riding it.
I have a few motorcycles.
Rz 350, rc 51, drz 400 and a beta 500 rs.
I don't have a Harley.
But I have always been a Harley fan.
Despite the AMF epoch.
I would love to own a xr 750.
But I do have a 84 vw gti that was owned by the son of evel.
It's highly modified and fun.
And seems to have a special energy.
Motorcycles are a special experience.
Good for an old bicycle mechanic and track racer.
The spirit is the same.
Brilliant video - all those backgrounders, phantastic! Not only explained Kevin Cameron in an excellent way the tech details of the engines, also the "reasons why" and the relations to other influencing areas. Really good!!!
IMHO a not mentioned reason for the sales in Europe, Japan is that you not only buy a lifestyle, but you buy the original. aka if I wanna buy a Rolex, I get myself one and NEVER one of the many lookalikes. That´s why a Japanese chopper, bagger etc. - how well designed ever - will not succeed.
What I really would like is a second part of this video, maybe titled with "Will HD be able to sell Millions in the near future?" Because you stopped your discussion before the TwinCam and M8 engines. And I really wanna hear the thoughts of Mr. Cameron on the disaster of the M8 after launch. The woke Zeitz of Germany you can gladly leave out ...
Hd was big in my family, dad bought the first year sportster and only sold it when I was born(I wouldn’t have). My first was an sx125 that was technically road leagal even if I wasn’t allowing me to get my first job out of walking distance. 74 440 snowmobile which was a TrueType fine beast. 81 flt frame mounted fairing crazy reliable even the chain ran in an oil bath that if oil changed at the enigine lasted till I sold it in the middle nineties for the same price I paid for it in the first place. Bought the first evo sportster which I still have to this day(favorite bike)
I knew from a young age I wanted a motorcycle that runs like a tractor and uses a Ski-doo belt.
I like all types of motorcycles. Ride what you want. Harleys are great for cruising down the road. Comfortable on long trips. Very versatile to a point.
Exploiting a messianic culture bent on tribalism is an art; in this respect, is not Harley Davidson a corporate artist?
Got my Iron in 2019. Love it ever since. I just understand why they would drop such a great bike.
regarding Fueling, good ideas always become personal battles
You're talking about Metric Cruisers not capturing sales. This is true, but I bought my 2008 Suzuki M 109R Boulevard about 12 years ago. I ride with many Harley riders, they all spent between $4,000 & $5,000 on their engines to hop them up. That's after spending $15,000 - $20,000 for their bikes, they still could not out perform my $8,000 suzuki! Things are finally changing with Harley, mostly to meet emissions, but this has also allowed them to get the performance they have badly needed to keep up and surpass the competition! They almost waited too long to make these changes in my opinion, as their sales were really waning in the past 5 to 10 years, they have came out with some really nice and powerful bike.
Imagine being able to afford a new Harley from bagging groceries.
99% of fishing lures catch fishermen, 1% catch fish. Motorcycles are no different.
What kind of fish do you catch with your motorcycle ?
2 legged
Harley, the fastest farming equipment on the planet.
That’s a great question. How have they?
The R18 in my opinion did not sell very well because they designed a bike nobody over 6ft could truly be comfortable on, I know this because I tried for 6 months after getting one for a bargain. It was a bargain because BMW's other mistake was trying to sell a base trim cruiser for $17k you could not customize without taking out a loan. A true shame!
Brotherrrrrr! I’ll stick with bikes that can perform.
I've been around probably more Harleys than any other bike. I've never for a second wanted to own one. It's probably because I don't like noise and it seems like noise is mainly what they're good for. I love a quiet bike and even stock Harleys are not quiet.
What does it tell you when your podcast about KoB has the highest number of views?
Are there figures on how many motorcycles of 250cc and above are registered on American roads?
I would love to hear more about Victory.
Nice for cruising, shit for fast riding. Different tools for different jobs
Harleys are not made for fast riding like a R1 or GSXR, but fast riding on a dirt track is where the Harley XR750 excels
Kind of. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the company as a whole, they still sell plenty of bikes and discontinuing Sportsters was a huge mistake.
I own a KTM1290S, but I'm getting close to retirement (comes to us all) and all of a sudden cruisers look like something I might actually want to own... maybe it's just the onset of early dementia.
Ditto here. 1290GT and 390 ADV gone for a 2024 Street Glide.
It's important to keep your brain active. Some people reckon sage (the herb) can help as well. Keep up with news, do puzzles and crosswords, etc.
At 50k miles my 2019 HD Ultra Limited destroyed its engine due to an inadequate oiling system . warranty is putting a brand new engine in. even at that I'm still 50/50 if ill keep it. Great motorcycles if you upgrade everything
Tendy people buy em. " Ya I got a Harley". Now you think I'm cool.
I think your just mad because you don't have one
I've had 4 of em. Back when I was young and stupid. Wanna bee's ride Harleys today for the most part. Experience showed me how poorly engineered they were compared to any other bike I've owned. The damn things are as plentiful as F150's.
@@Scott-sb1xi I agree, you get very little performance for the money. Mostly an image brand. They do have some performance bikes but cost 2x what the competition does.
@irishguyjg_2ndchancerecovery
Envy is not always the case.
Traded my KTM for two up comfort.
thats why this time I bought the 2024 low rider st my baggers were too heavy mine cost 30k from maui with zero options payed cash. love it. big island been riding since the 70s my first true love was a XLCH I was a 14 kid riding on the back of the galloping gooses mc being friends from my best friends older brother. c ya
Have you ever seen a Honda tattoo...me neither.
The Nicest People don't get tattoos.
And today they’re not american anymore. so I bought a Polaris Indian. Simple. It’s better, too. HD5 bikes are not serviced here and not build in USA. Not that it’s better technically made in USA, but if I want a indian manufactured bike or a thai, I buy such a bike, not a Harley. The PanAm got excellent reviews by paid influencers, the bikes are sheit, international dealers have them standing flat in their shop. And you don’t see them on the street like any other chinese-italian, german, austrian, english big trailer. They might sell in the US, thx to the Brand, but the technical market in Europe has technical customers, not fools.
The rider of that harley is looking for parts in that old defunct factory, unless he’s wasted all his money on parts and now needs to sleep on the floor protected by a defunct factory.
How is it that you people know all about technology but you are still eating bugs & shitting over a hole in the floor ?
[non-Harley] Suggestion - Could you review the Best Open Class UJM of All Time, the GSF1200S? I have owned three Gen 1's, have raced them, built them, and toured Coast-to-Coast on them. Clark Kent in Stock configuration, the bike becomes Superman when slightly modified. What's the design history?
Bought my first Harley in 1978. It was a ‘72 Sportster 1000 kick start only. I ride daily. I have owned Harley’s ever since. Every now and then I consider other makes and go test ride them. I even bought a BMW S1000RR and rode it for a while but kept a Road King and sold the Beemer. Harleys seem to be in my blood.
Thank you worth a watch.
Very debatable
I love my Softail Heritage 114. Just put on some TAB chrome slip on exhausts. I skipped the bogus Screaming Eagle Street Tuner. The ECM on my bike adjusts for the aftermarket pipes. It runs a bit richer is all. The O2 sensors can handle the mod. Saved me $400.
Now I do think the EPA is trying to kill the HD market with choking the M8 on emissions rules. The EPA is determined to kill the motorcycle market for cruisers.
I learned to ride on an Electra Glide classic. An 08. Then I bought a 22 RG. I did stage 1&2. It’s never given me a single problem, it’s 101 hp on the dyno and 119 torque and me and my wife have a blast together on it. For a short time I had a tuono. I don’t miss it. Once I left the dealership I have never needed anything. I love it and I am going to ride it as long as I can. I will never understand the hate. I am always smiling and having fun on it, and I don’t know how that could be a problem.
Can you please discuss Britten Motorcycle?
A channel called bart has that.
22,000 Views/830 Likes...WTF people?
If Chevy made big block Monte Carlos they would sell out
Sold my Road King, bought a BMW K1600 GT, put it up for sale within a month and bought a new Road King. HD forever!
I bought the first r18 my local dealer received. I tried everything to make it work for me and gave up. Traded it in on a Harley at a huge loss but was thrilled not to own it .
200 hp Revolution Max engine in an updated VR1000 frame! I'll buy it!
Road from age 10 to now at 66. I have had 4 Harleys, 4 Hondas, 4 Yamahas, 1 Kalisaky . After dealing with mobile HD I may never buy a new HD again. I think I will get a BMW R18 NEXT. They have reverse.
Charlie don't surf, but rides a Harley,It takes all kinds!
I've owned 4 new harleys and 3 used ones. I now ride a kawasaki z900rs and a Vstrom XT 1050. Harley is a lifestyle...not a technical motorcycle. I've rode them from Halifax to Key West and Arizona. I'm just not interested in that style of bike anymore. Too expensive and the same old same old every day. The z900rs is 400 lbs lighter, light years faster and generations smoother.
I asked my wife if my 50 year obsession with motorcycles had anything to do with love. She said I was fooling myself if I thought it was anything else.
Be interesting to see how the buyers respond (in the long term) with the tv screen virtual speedo/tacho setup
Couple that with the supposed ongoing expense to access the navigation, etc.
RUB's will be the only riders left cosplaying weekend badasses.
HD is the disloyal partner - it's basically saying stuff the traditional buyer - We want the luxury buyer.
Interested to know percentage of foreign parts in Harley. I’ve heard by folx in the know say it’s upwards of 35 percent.
What are those headphones.
I rode a FXDX for 19 years, 89000 miles, all uncomfortable. Back breaking ergos unless you have a bagger with a backrest.
A bagger with a backrest can be driven all day, and that’s the HD with all the cred.
Didnt the japanese cruisers die because of the tariffs? Isnt the only reason harley stood the test of time and indian didnt was becase of the government?
Absolutely wrong. The tariffs were on 700 cc bikes and above. The Japanese just made 699cc bikes and below to get around the tariffs. And that was in the 1980's. Meanwhile, the Japanese had tariffs on all American products not just motorcycles, and they still have those tariffs on Harley's to this day. Indian went out of business in the 1950's. It had nothing to do with Tariff's.
@@JP-dw1fp cut and paste from Wikipedia
Harley-Davidson was the sole surviving American motorcycle manufacturer.[3] All of the companies models in production were heavyweight motorcycles.[4] Before the imposition of the tariff, Harley-Davidson was facing a sharp sales decline, mainly due to the competition of Japanese motorcycle companies. Less than a decade before, Harley-Davidson had a 100% market share of 1000cc or larger motorcycles within the US.[4] A decade later, its market share had fallen to less than 15%. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki undercut Harley Davidson by 1500-2000 USD per vehicle.[3] In 1980 Harley-Davidson did 289 million USD in sales, which slumped to around 200 million USD in just two years. Employees also saw a harsh decline in wages and hours worked. The unsold inventory of bikes doubled during the time period, again due to the undercutting of Japanese counterparts.
@JP-dw1fp In March 1987, Harley Davidson made an "unprecedented action", and requested the removal of the tariff. "We no longer need tariff relief to compete," said Vaughn L. Beals Jr., Harley-Davidson's chairman and CEO.The tariff was removed by Ronald Regan on October 9, 1987, where he claimed the action would not harm the domestic industry.
The Japanese versions didn’t last because they were junk!
@@Elkslaya1 What absolute and utter nonsense 🙄