I think it’s a call, on purpose, albeit a clumsy one. He immediately looks straight to pennzoil after the chips fall. And I think his mumbling did include “call”
I would say that this is an accidental call only because that's not typically how Curtis makes calls on rivers - that particular movement. Usually he just throws in a few chips and says call. This looked more like he was trying to re-position his chips while he continued to think about what to do.
I am 60% that he was attempting to call. But why are people trying to justify it by him saying "what do you got" after the call was announced? It is apparent that he says this after seeing the A8 turned over. He was saying "what do got" in the tone of "what is A8 on that board"? Unless Pennzoil could hear something clearer then us being at the table, he shouldn't have turned his hand over that quickly. I understand the dealer said call but there was some ambiguity in that situation and better to double confirm that it was meant to be a call.
He made a forward move and when the dealer said call he didn’t try and stop her so I’d say it looked like an accident but prob just a rough way of calling
The only crime here was taking too long to call getting 6:1 and he thought Pennzoil did not have a flush. Why call all ways if he knew he was already beat. This is exactly you only play for stacks that you have at least 5x of. Poker will put you in situations to make this call and he would’ve snapped call if he had plenty of money.
This is exactly why I am ALWAYS a proponent of the hard line rule. He did push his chips in accidentally and likely wanted the ability to say he never called. That's why he was so quiet. People drop their chips into the pot in this game ALL THE TIME and the dealers say nothing. I used to play at a casino near Chicago where a chip hitting the actual betting line on the felt meant call, no ifs ands or buts. There were never situations like this where a floor person had to decide if it was intentional or not. A game needs clear unbreakable rules or it isn't a game.
" He did push his chips in accidentally and likely wanted the ability to say he never called" That's a pretty bold statement about his mental state. Of which you have zero actual evidence for. "People drop their chips into the pot in this game ALL THE TIME and the dealers say nothing." That's because people drop their chips all the time in pots on accident. This is not a rare occurrence. While this sometimes can be an angle shoot, people normally don't do it as one. Normally its just someone doing a chip trick while thinking. Or nervous with the chip in their hand. Or riffling their chips. And one just rolls out. In this case, the person was pushing forward a call and the chips fell over. Dealers are able to exercise judgement. In this case the dealer exercised her judgement that he was calling. In my opinion, the ruling should stand even if he protests it. Especially when its the clear he was attempting to push the chips forward. If he refuses to pay, then its a ban and it would be fought over in court. But that doesn't mean every single time someone accidentally drops a chip while shuffling their chips and it rolls weird means they are forced to call. Most casinos don't operate this rule a hard line because it typically is bad for the game. People make this mistake regularly and on total accident. If they were to enforce it regularly, a lot of recs would just stop coming because they would feel they are losing thousands of dollars to something unrelated to poker. I have never angled in my entire life. But I have had a chip roll passed the line accidentally. No one said a word. I didn't look at the opponent I simply stopped shuffling the chips in my hand, set them down, and grabbed the one that dropped and rolled past the line and pulled it back. The dealer was watching me, and it clearly looked unintentional and they exercised their judgement to not declare it a call. If the dealer declared it was a call, because they have to in your world. Or the other player decided to flip over their hand because they thought it represented a call. Too bad. I didn't call. I have no obligation to give you the money if I didn't call. If you want it, see me in court. I may get banned for that. Maybe when the floor rules they check the cameras and see that it was clearly an accident and don't ban me. But if its a hard line rule, then I'm not playing at that casino anymore. I don't want to feel anxiety every second at the table because a chip might get bumped and lose my thousands of dollars Most places dont enforce a hard line rule for this because it's bad for the game. Plenty of recreational players make this mistake and even regs. Nobody wants their money taken over a simple accident.
@@nex8000 I play a lot of poker and see this kind of angle shooting all the time. Here is why. It is my judgement that he wants the other player to think he calls and table his hand before actually calling to not lose the money BECAUSE... First he says the words, "I'm finna get broke right here, call". THIS IS A CALL. The dealer does not declare a call and none of the players recognize it due to the terribly bad grammar. What does he do when no one recognizes it as a call? Does he repeat? Does he clarify? No, he continues his show. Next, he is playing with his chips and they fall forward. I do think this was intentional. I think this is exactly what he wanted. Look at his reaction. If the chips fell forward on accident, he doesn't tell the dealer, "I DIDN'T CALL". He froze and immediately looked to see his opponent tabling his hand. Also, your own words betray you. You write this. *But I have had a chip roll passed the line accidentally. No one said a word. I didn't look at the opponent I simply stopped shuffling the chips in my hand, set them down, and grabbed the one that dropped and rolled past the line and pulled it back.* He didn't do this. He didn't try to retrieve his chips. He froze and waited to see his opponents hand to proceed. He has done this before. This is why he just stacked the chips higher than 20 on a stack to make this situation happen. In all of those words, you didn't even consider that a person can intentionally make something look like an accident. That's the kind of credulity that I will happily exploit when I play naive players.
@@nex8000 Also, I do accept your argument that a hard line rule is possibly bad for the game. I just personally think that this obvious ambiguity is worse for the game because it's so exploitable. I will tell you I ALWAYS angle shoot. I ALWAYS look to exploit every situation in poker. I don't cheat or steal outright but if something is not against the rules in a game, IT IS PART OF THE GAME. The entire game is built on deception. I don't believe in this, poker, being a gentlemen's game. I look at it as war and I've even lived off of poker money for periods of time.
@@albertgreen8347 Lets go by this 1 by 1. He says "I'm finna get broke right here, call" Then about 5 seconds later pushes his chips into the pot. Now MAYBE after he would claim something, but you are stating with a high level of certainty it was an angle. When its entirely possible, it was just a clumsy call and he mumbles a lot of shit. Which has been clear on the show that the way he talks is choppy and hard to understand. "Next, he is playing with his chips " He wasn't playing with the chips. He pushed them forwards. It's a forward action. "If the chips fell forward on accident, he doesn't tell the dealer, "I DIDN'T CALL". He froze and immediately looked to see his opponent tabling his hand." Why would he tell the dealer "I didn't call" if he called.....???? If he called, he called. He wasn't playing with his chips. His chips were pushed forwards, and fell as that happened. And the chips being pushed forward was a call, why would he say he didn't??? That makes zero sense. Second the caller normally waits for the bettor to show their hand after calling, especially when they are unsure. So why should the caller in this instance show his hand first after calling? This is just never done at poker. "Also, your own words betray you" "He didn't do this. He didn't try to retrieve his chips. He froze and waited to see his opponents hand to proceed. " Why would a player calling, pull their chips back??? This just makes zero sense. Do you even understand what you are saying. If he INTENDED to call, and the chips falling were just an accident as he pushed them forwards. Why would he declare he didn't call. Why would he take back his chips. That is counter to him calling. What you are saying makes ZERO sense. If you believe that angle shooting is ethical as long as rules are ambiguous. That is your prerogative. But claiming because poker is a game of deception, that it is not cheating to call, then take your money back. You are clueless. That is cheating. Accidentally dropping a chip and having roll into a pot and taking your money back is not cheating because there was no intent to influence action. But INTENTIONALLY dropping a chip in the pot to influence a person to flip over their hand, and plan to retroactively pull that chip back after purposefully influencing action IS cheating. Every cardroom in the country has rules on intentionally influencing a player to act useing dishonest means, especially when you are attempting to deceive a dealer at the same time to declare an action for you. Idk how you could possibly defend performing this action on purpose simply because the rules are ambiguous. You are committing fraud buddy. But go ahead and keep defending you doing unethical things because you suck at poker and need to pretend to call because you are too scared to put money in the pot! Keep grinding that 2 bb/hr at 1/2 against drunk amateurs by calling floor every 45 minutes to scoop an extra $30 on the river!
For sure it's a call. The dealer said call. Even if Penzoil had Aces the dealer said call, and he put his chips forward, so its a call (I doubt he would dispute it even if he lost the hand). Even if its unclear to us (but I think the dealer heard him say it) that he said call, he CLEARLY heard the dealer say "Call", and he didn't look at the dealer or say no to the dealer or take it back. There's no angling at the end. He had plenty of time to angle which he somewhat did with his thoughts out loud process in the time he took. Also he stacked his chips into a big tower, he's clearly picking the tower of chips up to move them forward (he picked them from the base) and was not picking them up from the top to unstack them or fidget them. He wasn't 100% sure of his decision, which is pretty common in poker, but his decision is 100% call. 17k into 100k, I don't think he was ever gonna fold; he just thought he was likely losing.
He was agonising over the decision; he didnt know what to do. I dont think he intentionally made the call. I think the chips falling over were on accident, and it led to a fortunate sequaelae of events for him. I think he was relieved that someone else made the decision that he couldn't make
@@AlexDuvalltrue and he would have a fair case that it was lol the other guy should've waited to see if this was an accident before turning his cards over but sounded like the dealer announced call?
No human would ever expect they could pick up such a tall stack of chips from the bottom, using just the thumb and forefinger. So him using 2 fingers to grab the bottom of the stack as he did, was not to pick it up, but to push it forward as the movement would be perfectly natural for. 100% an intended, albeit clumsy, call.
Imagine he used that as an excuse as accidently just a chips falling and not a call, that could have easily ended up as another big poker drama, since he could refuse to pay since the Intention of calling wasnt very clear, and the dealer said calle without being very sure of it being a call clearly.
@@stevevenn1 It was a clear forward motion, which may be the rule at this casino. Even if the chips fell over as he pushed them into the pot, he stilled pushed them in. Also we can't clearly hear what he was saying, he might have mumbled call and the audio just didn't pick it up real well. I don't think it was an angle at all and clearly looked like a call. Probably was just unsure as he pushed them in, causing nervousness.
I believe what was said by Curtis is, "I'm finna just get broke right here, cause" and then pauses. Sounds like he was talking mid thought and stopped himself from thinking out loud. I heard "cause" but trailed off. Thats just me tho.
at first I thought this may have been an accidental call + an angle where he would attempt to retract if he was beat, but looking back I don't think that was the case. reason is because as soon as he the dealer says "call" his eyes move to pennzoil's face, and then after a few seconds his call. if he did this on accident his eyes would either flash to the dealer when she says "call" or immediately look down at pennzoil's cards, and not just stare at pennzoil for a few seconds
Forward motion of chips , slightly before stack of chips fell while mumbling he's paying it off+ body language confirmed he called with dealer. Then asked "what do you got" as chips fell. If it wasnt a call, reaction would have been immiediate to retrieve his fallen chips. But didnt. Which makes it a clear call.
Definitely looks like a call to me. It was definitely clumsy, but there was forward motion, and he didn't act surprised when the dealer announced call. I don't think it was some sort of angle either.
If the dealer says that a player called like this spot, but his hand were to have been beaten, they would have lost that last $17k. So it seems fair that they get the pot when it happens and their hand is good.
No mistake, I clearly him say, 'there's the money', meaning he's pushing his money forward to call. His mannerisms match that as well. First he said ' I'm fenna get broke right here cau', another indication he had decided to call. When the chips fall and the dealer immediately said call, if he didn't intend to call, there would have been a quick look at the dealer or a quick objection to deny he meant to call. He said nothing, he did nothing. His demeanor was calm, indicating he was okay with her saying 'call'. Within a second he asked the guy what he had. None of that indicates he didn't intend to call, all of it indicates he did mean to call. His words I'm certain of, he said, ' there's the money'.
how can he call at every street and then even think about folding for 6-1 on a brick river...like dude what are you even doing in the hand in the first place if you arent snapping that river.
The video should be about the tank and not whether or not this was a call... the only reason he even seems surprised is because of the weird timing of the announcers reaction...
definitely a call. He motioned to forward the chip and didn't complain when the dealer said call. He also said something like "i don't care blah blah" as he shoves the chips. he's mumbling.
Is this really a debate worth having? Whether that be a suggestion of questionable ethics or a lack of confidence from Duvall... He puts his hands on the chips and you can see him make a forward movement which pushes them outwards, showing clear intention to call the bet. So what if he had some slight doubt during the action, he is bound to the consequences based on the exact actions our eyes witnessed. IF Pennzoil had a winning hand and Duvall even dared try to suggest he didn't mean to call, I would be calling him out as a cheater. That call was 100% binding, no doubt about it
How the dealer made the decision he called??? I can’t tell definitively that he did !! She shoulda ask him at least once” did you say call”? And she didn’t. What a terrible job by the dealer!
There's unspoken rules in poker once your chips come off the rail or go past your cards they're in the pot. There are no take backs imagine mucking your cards and then pulling them back in and saying it was an accident.
You are correct… I play at a lot of casinos and that was a call whether he meant it or not he pushed the chips past his cards… I don’t like the rule but it in a lot of casinos in Florida that’s a call… I’ve argued it but the house said it’s a CALL
First, this is an insta call but this player is clearly a recreational player. Second, the dealer should not have been so quick to announce “call” although it did look like a call.
Hate when people are like. " Yeah.. he should stay after a bad beat to be nice to everyone else" like bitch, it isn't your money , and there was no obligation to stay.
@@AlexDuvall yeah, if he is promising to promote them by streaming a game for a certain amount of time ; otherwise i don't see the point. I've had similar bad beats after being up like 4k and lose 1k sure I'm up about 3k still but my mind isn't going to be in the game.. and hearing people complain that I took their money so I need to stay to make them happy is infuriating..
Hell nah! He didn’t call, if he would’ve lost he would’ve been complaining. However, he made the move to call and chips crossed the line. Regardless it’s call.
hes probably the worst player i have ever watched on one of these streams, it was actually unbearable how bad he is and i almost felt sorry for him. these games are usually full of whales but damn this guy was next level clueless.
If you jam that amount of money in and then fold to save your last 17k, you need to stop playing. "Have seen this from live players" is thinly veiled code for bad play.
He clearly says I'm going to call and when the chips fall he didn't mean that. But he said call as it was being pushed in. Let's not be stupid on this.
This guy should keep his mouth shut and avoid real poker players. He has no idea what pot odds are or how to figure them. The hand against Persons was an easy fold he got unlucky and paid him off when it was obvious.
After that big of a cooler. You leave. I'm steaming at that point. You're in there with sharks. Not soft players. If I'm playing lower stakes with soft players. I probably stay because I could get some of my money back if not all, he's in the shark tank. Best to just leave.
Come on man why is this a video - he pushed the chips they were moving forward and tipped - clearly a call - why don’t you do a video on a trooper hand vs old man coffee tomorrow get some views…
There's something fishy going on too many strange lines are happening and this Curtis guy seems shady, it looked like Curtis was stalling waiting for a signal to come through to call or not.
Another conspiracy theorist. Wouldn’t be surprised to hear you say things like “when it’s your time, it’s your time, so I don’t worry” or the government is tracking you with your phone as if the government cares where you go. Just be careful that you don’t walk off the end of the earth. The guy is obviously not a professional poker player, he is an amateur with no concept of pot odds and no reading abilities, he is also very insecure in this environment as evidenced by his indecision followed by his “I knew” once the cards are turned over. Seen this so many times when a player becomes a hero just after saying something along the lines of “I’m going to go broke, I call”.
@hattershouse710 why would he take so long for an obvious call he was waiting for a signal to come through that probably got delayed, Garrett himself still believes he was cheated so this Curtis guy is not above suspicion.
One needs to articulate an action or move chips deliberately. What red did was inarticulate and ambiguous and if he were beat would have called the floor and complained. Boxing is a dying sport.
@@hattershouse710 Literally… 2023. I said a lot more than boxing is dying. It’s not been good since the 1990s. It’s not even real fighting, just dancing around scoring points. It reminds me of flag football compared to rugby. Two overly padded wrapped hands are the only weapons. No chokes, joint locks, neck cranks, take downs, elbows, knees and kicks. I love it when these boxers try fighting in the cage. Like when Randy Couture ankle picked some boring boxer and beat him up on the ground. Boxing is over very soon cause it’s silly. Literally!
@@markgothard7158 ramirez vs espinoza was the fight of the year and it happened last week. Im more of an MMA guy myself but boxing has plenty of stars who are fighting eachother all the time. Theres plenty of great fights every week especially if you know where to look.
@@hattershouse710 I’m correct about red. He is inarticulate and was very ambiguous. He doesn’t even know how to cut checks correctly, he just fumbles his checks and knocked them over on accident. I know because I’ve played poker all my life. I’ve dealt craps, roulette, blackjack and poker. I can spot a beginner in three seconds. The dealer should have called the floor for a decision.
I think it was actually a call because his time was running out and he wasn't going for another time chip. edit: oh, I see he didn't have another time chip. Still I think his time was running out because the graphic came back up automatically, and he was moving the chips forward.
@@AlexDuvall Yeah, I should wait till the end to post comments, lol. I edited my comment before seeing your reply. I think his time was up though because the graphic thing came up automatically didn't it? So, if he had no time left then he was moving his chips forward when he had only seconds left.
Haha he didnt call he just stupidly knocked his chips in... But it should've been an automatic call he just doesnt know how to play 17k to win 120 even if half the amount was in the pot its an auto call
![How This Old Man Beat Pokers BEST for $7.8 Million in 4 Days [Gambledore]](/img/n.gif)
Big Props to the dealer for making the call here. Dealer knows he can't fold for 6:1 and calls for him. Really top-notch dealing.
Lol that’s one way to look at it
@@AlexDuvall it was a joke 😂
I think it’s a call, on purpose, albeit a clumsy one. He immediately looks straight to pennzoil after the chips fall. And I think his mumbling did include “call”
Finally someone with some common sense. This is what happened.
yeah looks that way
He's pot committed getting 6 to 1. It's a call in any universe. You gotta call.
Yeah he mumbled something like “ok I’m gonna call” while pushing the chips. Dealer immediately recognized it as a call.
Plus he was doing a forward motion already. The chips just tumbled when it hit his cards.
I would say that this is an accidental call only because that's not typically how Curtis makes calls on rivers - that particular movement. Usually he just throws in a few chips and says call. This looked more like he was trying to re-position his chips while he continued to think about what to do.
I am 60% that he was attempting to call. But why are people trying to justify it by him saying "what do you got" after the call was announced? It is apparent that he says this after seeing the A8 turned over. He was saying "what do got" in the tone of "what is A8 on that board"?
Unless Pennzoil could hear something clearer then us being at the table, he shouldn't have turned his hand over that quickly. I understand the dealer said call but there was some ambiguity in that situation and better to double confirm that it was meant to be a call.
He made a forward move and when the dealer said call he didn’t try and stop her so I’d say it looked like an accident but prob just a rough way of calling
looks like it to me
Dare I say he rolled with the punch?
@@Forever_LauraYou can with the provision not to give up day job.
The only crime here was taking too long to call getting 6:1 and he thought Pennzoil did not have a flush. Why call all ways if he knew he was already beat. This is exactly you only play for stacks that you have at least 5x of. Poker will put you in situations to make this call and he would’ve snapped call if he had plenty of money.
lets keep bashing rec players
Yes because he shouldn't be playing poker. He's going to go broke.
@@mattlee1071 it’s almost as if some people play poker not to make money but for the entertainment value oh gee.
@LebronCCP Then he needs to go way down in stakes. Otherwise it's addiction.
@@mattlee1071 you should be his financial advisor
Definitely a call as the chips fall over he instantly says “what do you got”. He pushes the chips forward.
the dealer said call when his chips fell.
he said "what do you got" after the cards were flipped, meaning he was trying to process the guys hand was..
This is exactly why I am ALWAYS a proponent of the hard line rule. He did push his chips in accidentally and likely wanted the ability to say he never called. That's why he was so quiet. People drop their chips into the pot in this game ALL THE TIME and the dealers say nothing.
I used to play at a casino near Chicago where a chip hitting the actual betting line on the felt meant call, no ifs ands or buts. There were never situations like this where a floor person had to decide if it was intentional or not.
A game needs clear unbreakable rules or it isn't a game.
Chips go in, they're in!!!! Can't take em back. I like this rule. The floor should make it a call..
" He did push his chips in accidentally and likely wanted the ability to say he never called" That's a pretty bold statement about his mental state. Of which you have zero actual evidence for.
"People drop their chips into the pot in this game ALL THE TIME and the dealers say nothing." That's because people drop their chips all the time in pots on accident. This is not a rare occurrence. While this sometimes can be an angle shoot, people normally don't do it as one. Normally its just someone doing a chip trick while thinking. Or nervous with the chip in their hand. Or riffling their chips. And one just rolls out. In this case, the person was pushing forward a call and the chips fell over. Dealers are able to exercise judgement. In this case the dealer exercised her judgement that he was calling. In my opinion, the ruling should stand even if he protests it. Especially when its the clear he was attempting to push the chips forward. If he refuses to pay, then its a ban and it would be fought over in court. But that doesn't mean every single time someone accidentally drops a chip while shuffling their chips and it rolls weird means they are forced to call. Most casinos don't operate this rule a hard line because it typically is bad for the game. People make this mistake regularly and on total accident. If they were to enforce it regularly, a lot of recs would just stop coming because they would feel they are losing thousands of dollars to something unrelated to poker.
I have never angled in my entire life. But I have had a chip roll passed the line accidentally. No one said a word. I didn't look at the opponent I simply stopped shuffling the chips in my hand, set them down, and grabbed the one that dropped and rolled past the line and pulled it back. The dealer was watching me, and it clearly looked unintentional and they exercised their judgement to not declare it a call. If the dealer declared it was a call, because they have to in your world. Or the other player decided to flip over their hand because they thought it represented a call. Too bad. I didn't call. I have no obligation to give you the money if I didn't call. If you want it, see me in court. I may get banned for that. Maybe when the floor rules they check the cameras and see that it was clearly an accident and don't ban me. But if its a hard line rule, then I'm not playing at that casino anymore. I don't want to feel anxiety every second at the table because a chip might get bumped and lose my thousands of dollars Most places dont enforce a hard line rule for this because it's bad for the game. Plenty of recreational players make this mistake and even regs. Nobody wants their money taken over a simple accident.
@@nex8000
I play a lot of poker and see this kind of angle shooting all the time. Here is why.
It is my judgement that he wants the other player to think he calls and table his hand before actually calling to not lose the money BECAUSE...
First he says the words, "I'm finna get broke right here, call". THIS IS A CALL. The dealer does not declare a call and none of the players recognize it due to the terribly bad grammar. What does he do when no one recognizes it as a call? Does he repeat? Does he clarify? No, he continues his show.
Next, he is playing with his chips and they fall forward. I do think this was intentional. I think this is exactly what he wanted. Look at his reaction. If the chips fell forward on accident, he doesn't tell the dealer, "I DIDN'T CALL". He froze and immediately looked to see his opponent tabling his hand.
Also, your own words betray you. You write this.
*But I have had a chip roll passed the line accidentally. No one said a word. I didn't look at the opponent I simply stopped shuffling the chips in my hand, set them down, and grabbed the one that dropped and rolled past the line and pulled it back.*
He didn't do this. He didn't try to retrieve his chips. He froze and waited to see his opponents hand to proceed. He has done this before. This is why he just stacked the chips higher than 20 on a stack to make this situation happen. In all of those words, you didn't even consider that a person can intentionally make something look like an accident. That's the kind of credulity that I will happily exploit when I play naive players.
@@nex8000
Also, I do accept your argument that a hard line rule is possibly bad for the game. I just personally think that this obvious ambiguity is worse for the game because it's so exploitable. I will tell you I ALWAYS angle shoot. I ALWAYS look to exploit every situation in poker. I don't cheat or steal outright but if something is not against the rules in a game, IT IS PART OF THE GAME. The entire game is built on deception.
I don't believe in this, poker, being a gentlemen's game. I look at it as war and I've even lived off of poker money for periods of time.
@@albertgreen8347 Lets go by this 1 by 1.
He says "I'm finna get broke right here, call" Then about 5 seconds later pushes his chips into the pot. Now MAYBE after he would claim something, but you are stating with a high level of certainty it was an angle. When its entirely possible, it was just a clumsy call and he mumbles a lot of shit. Which has been clear on the show that the way he talks is choppy and hard to understand.
"Next, he is playing with his chips " He wasn't playing with the chips. He pushed them forwards. It's a forward action.
"If the chips fell forward on accident, he doesn't tell the dealer, "I DIDN'T CALL". He froze and immediately looked to see his opponent tabling his hand." Why would he tell the dealer "I didn't call" if he called.....???? If he called, he called. He wasn't playing with his chips. His chips were pushed forwards, and fell as that happened. And the chips being pushed forward was a call, why would he say he didn't??? That makes zero sense.
Second the caller normally waits for the bettor to show their hand after calling, especially when they are unsure. So why should the caller in this instance show his hand first after calling? This is just never done at poker.
"Also, your own words betray you" "He didn't do this. He didn't try to retrieve his chips. He froze and waited to see his opponents hand to proceed. " Why would a player calling, pull their chips back??? This just makes zero sense. Do you even understand what you are saying. If he INTENDED to call, and the chips falling were just an accident as he pushed them forwards. Why would he declare he didn't call. Why would he take back his chips. That is counter to him calling. What you are saying makes ZERO sense.
If you believe that angle shooting is ethical as long as rules are ambiguous. That is your prerogative. But claiming because poker is a game of deception, that it is not cheating to call, then take your money back. You are clueless. That is cheating. Accidentally dropping a chip and having roll into a pot and taking your money back is not cheating because there was no intent to influence action. But INTENTIONALLY dropping a chip in the pot to influence a person to flip over their hand, and plan to retroactively pull that chip back after purposefully influencing action IS cheating. Every cardroom in the country has rules on intentionally influencing a player to act useing dishonest means, especially when you are attempting to deceive a dealer at the same time to declare an action for you. Idk how you could possibly defend performing this action on purpose simply because the rules are ambiguous. You are committing fraud buddy. But go ahead and keep defending you doing unethical things because you suck at poker and need to pretend to call because you are too scared to put money in the pot!
Keep grinding that 2 bb/hr at 1/2 against drunk amateurs by calling floor every 45 minutes to scoop an extra $30 on the river!
The fact the dealer announces "call" so fast followed up by Meeks saying "ooop" is so comical. 😅
Penzoil should have confirmed it was a call before he turned his hand over.
For sure it's a call. The dealer said call. Even if Penzoil had Aces the dealer said call, and he put his chips forward, so its a call (I doubt he would dispute it even if he lost the hand).
Even if its unclear to us (but I think the dealer heard him say it) that he said call, he CLEARLY heard the dealer say "Call", and he didn't look at the dealer or say no to the dealer or take it back.
There's no angling at the end. He had plenty of time to angle which he somewhat did with his thoughts out loud process in the time he took.
Also he stacked his chips into a big tower, he's clearly picking the tower of chips up to move them forward (he picked them from the base) and was not picking them up from the top to unstack them or fidget them.
He wasn't 100% sure of his decision, which is pretty common in poker, but his decision is 100% call. 17k into 100k, I don't think he was ever gonna fold; he just thought he was likely losing.
He was agonising over the decision; he didnt know what to do. I dont think he intentionally made the call. I think the chips falling over were on accident, and it led to a fortunate sequaelae of events for him. I think he was relieved that someone else made the decision that he couldn't make
He clearly didn’t call but I don’t think he intentionally angled him.
You must be blind or never play live poker, it was a clear call with forward chip movement
You must clearly be blind.
Bro has more money around his neck than in his stack but he’s too scared to call with top pair for a tiny bet. What a fish.
Wonder what would have happened if Penzoil had AA
Lol true.. like NOPE it was an accident!! Haha
@@AlexDuvalltrue and he would have a fair case that it was lol the other guy should've waited to see if this was an accident before turning his cards over but sounded like the dealer announced call?
Why create artificial “what ifs” that attempt to make him look bad? It is what it is. “What if” who cares.
There is no “true” your conjecture about how you think it would have gone is meaningless
No human would ever expect they could pick up such a tall stack of chips from the bottom, using just the thumb and forefinger. So him using 2 fingers to grab the bottom of the stack as he did, was not to pick it up, but to push it forward as the movement would be perfectly natural for.
100% an intended, albeit clumsy, call.
Imagine he used that as an excuse as accidently just a chips falling and not a call, that could have easily ended up as another big poker drama, since he could refuse to pay since the Intention of calling wasnt very clear, and the dealer said calle without being very sure of it being a call clearly.
Right. I'm not saying it was an angle but why is dealer insta calling on his behalf when acstack topples, arguably behind the line!
@@stevevenn1 It was a clear forward motion, which may be the rule at this casino. Even if the chips fell over as he pushed them into the pot, he stilled pushed them in. Also we can't clearly hear what he was saying, he might have mumbled call and the audio just didn't pick it up real well. I don't think it was an angle at all and clearly looked like a call. Probably was just unsure as he pushed them in, causing nervousness.
I believe what was said by Curtis is, "I'm finna just get broke right here, cause" and then pauses. Sounds like he was talking mid thought and stopped himself from thinking out loud. I heard "cause" but trailed off. Thats just me tho.
Looked like a call all the way. He's not folding.
"You ain't finna ta push me outta tha pot." I think he almost did
I really thought he said "I'm fixin to just go broke right here call" but the dealer didn't acknowledge it.
I think he meant if he calls, that how the dealer perceived it. Otherwise he would have said call again right after right
@@AlexDuvallIt could've also been part of an angle. Great videos! Pretty interesting hand.
Dealer should be confirming, "Is that a call?"
It looked like an accident...but he said, "what do you got?"...so he accepted the fact he called.
at first I thought this may have been an accidental call + an angle where he would attempt to retract if he was beat, but looking back I don't think that was the case. reason is because as soon as he the dealer says "call" his eyes move to pennzoil's face, and then after a few seconds his call. if he did this on accident his eyes would either flash to the dealer when she says "call" or immediately look down at pennzoil's cards, and not just stare at pennzoil for a few seconds
Saw this in real time and thought to myself it looked like he tipped the chips over on accident- but I don’t think he was angling though.
A clumsy CALL but a call nonetheless... You don't push the biggest stacks of black chips with intentions of FOLDING you just muck the cards...
i've never seen that before. Accidentally tipped over a tower of chips, indicating a CALL.
That’s a forward action and the dealer said called
He called, his hand was on the bottom of the chips and push forward.
Forward motion of chips , slightly before stack of chips fell while mumbling he's paying it off+ body language confirmed he called with dealer. Then asked "what do you got" as chips fell. If it wasnt a call, reaction would have been immiediate to retrieve his fallen chips. But didnt. Which makes it a clear call.
I think he is angle shooting big time.
Watching this live was hilarious. He did not call. The chat went wild and Joey was being too nice.
Definitely looks like a call to me. It was definitely clumsy, but there was forward motion, and he didn't act surprised when the dealer announced call. I don't think it was some sort of angle either.
It's a call. And if it wasn't. He would have protested. If I'm penzoil. I clarify and ask you called RIGHT? Before tabling your hand.
If the dealer says that a player called like this spot, but his hand were to have been beaten, they would have lost that last $17k. So it seems fair that they get the pot when it happens and their hand is good.
He was gonna claim it wasn't a call had he lost😂
No mistake, I clearly him say, 'there's the money', meaning he's pushing his money forward to call. His mannerisms match that as well. First he said ' I'm fenna get broke right here cau', another indication he had decided to call. When the chips fall and the dealer immediately said call, if he didn't intend to call, there would have been a quick look at the dealer or a quick objection to deny he meant to call. He said nothing, he did nothing. His demeanor was calm, indicating he was okay with her saying 'call'. Within a second he asked the guy what he had. None of that indicates he didn't intend to call, all of it indicates he did mean to call. His words I'm certain of, he said, ' there's the money'.
He said I'll call when he pushed forward. Check his lips
He made forward movement and pretty sure he said call. He said oop because they fell
Gotta love Curtis's reaction.
He was never folding imo
the fact he even had to think about it makes me think otherwise.
That’s not a call, thats not enough forward movement to justify as a call.
He also said ok ill call as he pushed them forward. Clear call.
how can he call at every street and then even think about folding for 6-1 on a brick river...like dude what are you even doing in the hand in the first place if you arent snapping that river.
looks like he was pushing the stack forward
The video should be about the tank and not whether or not this was a call... the only reason he even seems surprised is because of the weird timing of the announcers reaction...
He literally said “I’m going to call tho” no accident.
yes if u watch in 1.25 speed he clearly said ill call though?
this is an angle. clear as day.
Looks like he was going to put the chips in and it just fell so he accepted the call
was definitely a call. He looked at Penn waiting to see his cards.
yes he said ill call though then he spilled his chips
If he lose he will say its an accident i did not call
So hard to say, but it really doesn't matter, accidental or not! His body language is insane relief but there's no major sense of ooops.
because penzoil immediately flipped his hand over.
Looked unintentional but at the same time he appeared to be leaning towards a call compared to other hands he was hesitant on.
definitely a call. He motioned to forward the chip and didn't complain when the dealer said call. He also said something like "i don't care blah blah" as he shoves the chips. he's mumbling.
he was pushing them forward, looked like he meant it to me and a good call.
That’s without a doubt a call, if your chips go past your cards like that it’s a call win or lose. Dealer made a good call.
That was an accedental call . He looked surprised when she said call
lol I was on the floor, he said call
Thought I heard that too.
Is this really a debate worth having? Whether that be a suggestion of questionable ethics or a lack of confidence from Duvall...
He puts his hands on the chips and you can see him make a forward movement which pushes them outwards, showing clear intention to call the bet. So what if he had some slight doubt during the action, he is bound to the consequences based on the exact actions our eyes witnessed. IF Pennzoil had a winning hand and Duvall even dared try to suggest he didn't mean to call, I would be calling him out as a cheater. That call was 100% binding, no doubt about it
Haha I’ve never been referred to as Duvall. I think I like it.
He rolls over hearts, and Mr classy is going to absolutely say he didn’t call. So it’s a pretty sweet free roll
How the dealer made the decision he called??? I can’t tell definitively that he did !! She shoulda ask him at least once” did you say call”? And she didn’t. What a terrible job by the dealer!
He definitely moved the Chips forward as they fell forward making it a Call !!!!
the dealer as NO buisness saying call their.
Nah, he called, he was pushing his chips in… forward motion, etc…
he called
Yeo that guys funny as fuck man😂 that cooler at the end I couldn’t stop laughing throughout that whole hand
There's unspoken rules in poker once your chips come off the rail or go past your cards they're in the pot. There are no take backs imagine mucking your cards and then pulling them back in and saying it was an accident.
watch HCL, players count their chips in front of their cards all the time.
That's literally not a rule in any casino I've ever played in.
You are correct… I play at a lot of casinos and that was a call whether he meant it or not he pushed the chips past his cards… I don’t like the rule but it in a lot of casinos in Florida that’s a call… I’ve argued it but the house said it’s a CALL
Nobody at the table said anything so why is there an argument.
First, this is an insta call but this player is clearly a recreational player. Second, the dealer should not have been so quick to announce “call” although it did look like a call.
What comments exactly
what he said was "Igambawitca" = I'll gamble with you
He call he pushed the chips
It is a call, he push the chips forward
He calls he asks him what he has
Hate when people are like. " Yeah.. he should stay after a bad beat to be nice to everyone else" like bitch, it isn't your money , and there was no obligation to stay.
Typically there is an obligation to stay on streamed games like this. It’s not like he busted. But yes, in a normal game, you are correct.
@@AlexDuvall yeah, if he is promising to promote them by streaming a game for a certain amount of time ; otherwise i don't see the point. I've had similar bad beats after being up like 4k and lose 1k sure I'm up about 3k still but my mind isn't going to be in the game.. and hearing people complain that I took their money so I need to stay to make them happy is infuriating..
ah yes very common@@johnathanreynolds1108
Hell nah! He didn’t call, if he would’ve lost he would’ve been complaining. However, he made the move to call and chips crossed the line. Regardless it’s call.
Angle
Wonder what would happened if he lost
Nothing
I guess we’ll never know
They let the pro boxer buy 80k because he’s not a poker player, it was supposed to be a donation
I see Curtis as a good player but not ready for this stakes
hes probably the worst player i have ever watched on one of these streams, it was actually unbearable how bad he is and i almost felt sorry for him. these games are usually full of whales but damn this guy was next level clueless.
It was a call but it was a rough like ughhhhhh I hate this, but I gotta 6 to 1. It makes no sense not to call.
If you jam that amount of money in and then fold to save your last 17k, you need to stop playing.
"Have seen this from live players" is thinly veiled code for bad play.
Yeah, that graphic for the time chip has to go, lol.
bro that is not a call
He clearly says I'm going to call and when the chips fall he didn't mean that. But he said call as it was being pushed in. Let's not be stupid on this.
Your only a Winner if you cash out when your up , nicely done Curtis !!!
Why would you fold when you only have 17k on a 130k pot 😂
I mean why does he even need to think about this for long? The pot is 121K. He has 17k left and paired his King.
yeah this dude was painful to watch. pretty sure they taught him how to play backstage before the stream started.
This guy should keep his mouth shut and avoid real poker players. He has no idea what pot odds are or how to figure them. The hand against Persons was an easy fold he got unlucky and paid him off when it was obvious.
he wants to quit poker right now
terrible call..... by the dealer
That was a call, is obviously.
Why do you keep insulting him in your titles? Don't you have some angles to shoot?
Lol “keep insulting” ? I’ve made 1 vid with him in it. And when did I ever insult him? Hesitant to put 17k into a 100k+ pot is scared money
After that big of a cooler. You leave. I'm steaming at that point. You're in there with sharks. Not soft players. If I'm playing lower stakes with soft players. I probably stay because I could get some of my money back if not all, he's in the shark tank. Best to just leave.
he did get tricked lol
Curtis needs to stay away from poker
Come on man why is this a video - he pushed the chips they were moving forward and tipped - clearly a call - why don’t you do a video on a trooper hand vs old man coffee tomorrow get some views…
There's something fishy going on too many strange lines are happening and this Curtis guy seems shady, it looked like Curtis was stalling waiting for a signal to come through to call or not.
You must believe in conspiracies huh?
Another conspiracy theorist. Wouldn’t be surprised to hear you say things like “when it’s your time, it’s your time, so I don’t worry” or the government is tracking you with your phone as if the government cares where you go. Just be careful that you don’t walk off the end of the earth. The guy is obviously not a professional poker player, he is an amateur with no concept of pot odds and no reading abilities, he is also very insecure in this environment as evidenced by his indecision followed by his “I knew” once the cards are turned over. Seen this so many times when a player becomes a hero just after saying something along the lines of “I’m going to go broke, I call”.
@hattershouse710 why would he take so long for an obvious call he was waiting for a signal to come through that probably got delayed, Garrett himself still believes he was cheated so this Curtis guy is not above suspicion.
That was a mistake!!!’ He probably plays in his hommmies garage games thinks he can hang with the big boys 😂
Cheating, no class, on purpose
LOL, definitely a mistake 🤣🤣
You are joking right?
One needs to articulate an action or move chips deliberately. What red did was inarticulate and ambiguous and if he were beat would have called the floor and complained. Boxing is a dying sport.
Literally everything you said is factually incorrect. Boxing is definitely nowhere near dying.
@@hattershouse710 Literally… 2023. I said a lot more than boxing is dying. It’s not been good since the 1990s. It’s not even real fighting, just dancing around scoring points. It reminds me of flag football compared to rugby. Two overly padded wrapped hands are the only weapons. No chokes, joint locks, neck cranks, take downs, elbows, knees and kicks. I love it when these boxers try fighting in the cage. Like when Randy Couture ankle picked some boring boxer and beat him up on the ground. Boxing is over very soon cause it’s silly. Literally!
@@markgothard7158 ramirez vs espinoza was the fight of the year and it happened last week. Im more of an MMA guy myself but boxing has plenty of stars who are fighting eachother all the time. Theres plenty of great fights every week especially if you know where to look.
@@markgothard7158 And everything you said before that was just your conjecture, nothing factual whatsoever.
@@hattershouse710 I’m correct about red. He is inarticulate and was very ambiguous. He doesn’t even know how to cut checks correctly, he just fumbles his checks and knocked them over on accident. I know because I’ve played poker all my life. I’ve dealt craps, roulette, blackjack and poker. I can spot a beginner in three seconds. The dealer should have called the floor for a decision.
I think it was actually a call because his time was running out and he wasn't going for another time chip.
edit: oh, I see he didn't have another time chip. Still I think his time was running out because the graphic came back up automatically, and he was moving the chips forward.
I think he was out of them
@@AlexDuvall Yeah, I should wait till the end to post comments, lol. I edited my comment before seeing your reply. I think his time was up though because the graphic thing came up automatically didn't it? So, if he had no time left then he was moving his chips forward when he had only seconds left.
Poor dealer knowledge. She should've asked what his intentions were being a bet is only defined as cut and released. In no way was that a call.
Haha he didnt call he just stupidly knocked his chips in... But it should've been an automatic call he just doesnt know how to play 17k to win 120 even if half the amount was in the pot its an auto call
But his skullcap matches his sweats and he wears two earrings with a giant necklace. Great wardrobe boxer.