Totally agree with the used vinyl condition, I also am a VG+ only guy. Same with blind buys, I stream as much as possible before buying any physical media. Great video Frank
The first rule is SO relatable. I once saw a copy of Dragonforce's Inhumane Rampage on LP and it was selling for $150. I thought I would wait for it to be a little cheaper. Few months later copies are selling for $400 now. It's my biggest regret in vinyl record collecting. An interesting idea for a video, is I would absolutely love to see more of your 'biggest regrets' in vinyl collecting, I'd love to hear your stories!
I started collecting 7" (we called them 45s back then) in the early 70s. I heard a song on the radio that I fell in love with and ran out to get the 45. When I brought it home and put it on it seemed to be missing something. It was Come Sail Away by Styx. Strangely enough the version I heard on the radio was the album version and it has an amazing synth solo that they removed to make the single shorter. I went out and purchased the album in order to get that song and discovered how many other amazing songs were on that album that never made it to "single" status or got played on the radio etc... That was my first LP I ever purchased and my last 45.
Hey! Good to see you back at it. These are great topics and like I have said, I appreciate your content and your passion for vinyl. With all of the "rules" that we all place on each other, sometimes even falling into other music music genres, those rules often bend depending on what you are into. Exploring those other types could be a great addition to this or at least a side topic. New music genre, and then a whole new world and rules apply. Have a great one. Cheers!!!
I keep learning about missing out on great copies, I just had a famous artist put out his own solo works, only 300 copies, but a genre he’s not known for. I thought I’d wait a week because they weren’t selling particularly fast. Yesterday when I went to purchase of course they’re all gone. You’re 100% right, just get it there and then.
Onboard with the rules with one exception: when I travel, I always like asking a record store I’m visiting for a recommendation. This allows me to walk away with something that represents the store, but also turns me onto new music. All but once I really enjoyed the blind buy, so it’s one rule of yours that I’d break 😉
My guidelines or rules to follow are fairly simple always inspect what you are buying and buy what you want not what others say are must haves and last never hesitate on a grail record it took me 2 more years to track one down I passed on and cost me more money in the end.
Lol i paid 15 bucks for barret strong, money original.. thats as high as i will go. But its one of my all time favs since i was a kid... had to have it. 😂
“No 7 inch singles” 😂 I own in the neighborhood of 900 at this very moment. I’m on a mission to collect every hit song from the 80s. To be fair, it’s more about the cool picture sleeves than actually listening to them. But someday I can see myself DJing an 80s-themed party or whatever and spinning exclusively 7”s 😁
As a music listener, rather than a collector, I also favor new black vinyl, and I’m a sucker for “180 gram” since they tend to be less warped. When it comes to used records I don’t buy records that are in poor shape. I can tolerate a ring worn sleeve, and an inner sleeve in need of repair, but I only buy used records that I can rescue and clean up a little. Ultimately this is not a financial investment, but rather a time investment, also known as a hobby, so I try to just have fun.
Ive seen terrible albums.. my sam cooke and franki valli albums had plants growing half way through them when they were given to me cause they were all wet... huge box of em. It took me months to clean em all.. but they cleaned right up.. not a scratch on em and incredible sound... ive also found good looking records that are terrible. The 180 grm are awesome but the thin ones if taken care of correctly wont warp.. there is a way to flaten em back out, but you gotta be watching em like a hawk. Easiest is on flat surface in hot vehicle. Always try on one you arent fond of first to see how it works. Its about saving the songs after all. 😇
hey frank...i really dont have any set rules, living off my social security check, so it always depends on the situation (bills to pay, how hard it is to find, asking price, etc...)... but one rule you said struck a nerve...blind buys... i used to leave a record store not knowing half of the albums i bought that just looked interesting..nowadays i cant even afford the ones i know and want...but in the immortal words of jagger... '..ya' get what ya' need..' great video.. hope the family is well..peace always to you man..rocky
Hey, Mark, I totally agree with ALL of those “rules”, especially the one on condition because condition is EVERYTHING when it comes to records! VG+ or better with me as well, unless it’s a truly rare record. In that case, I will buy it (for a reasonable price) and it’s a space-filler until the nicer copy comes along. Love the videos; keep ‘em coming!
Love your sixth rule..... means all the more for me! I have a turntable with a SAEC WE-308L. That tone arm is 11 inches long and has the Stevenson geometry. This sees both null points falling within the play area of a 7 inch record( very low distortion). Combine that with the 45 rpm( better dynamics and potential better sound) and you have a recipe for very good play back ( better than 12 inch at 33rpm). Yes I still buy Lps, but now I hunt out those really good condition high quality recorded 7 inch 45s. In record stores I usually have the 7 inch section all to my self.
Several great points made. The only thing I would add is I don't purchase used items on line. I prefer to crate dig in a shop or show and physically examine the album before pulling the trigger. Any sign of damage or imperfection that can not be fixed with a simple wash I pass on. Sure returns are usually easy but why deal with the hassle of the mail when it can be avoided. Other than that our rules seem to line up pretty close.
Haven't done this in a good while - but had a blast going to a friend's house with a big box of 7" (you know... maybe the D's-H's or something, best to grab the box at random) - then hanging out, drinking beer, and taking turns on the turntable. They can be a lot of fun.
I ran across a gold mine at my local shop. I was the first to look through 2 boxes of og metal. For some reason they were priced no higher than $12.99. Crazy titles too. Reign in Blood. Kill Em All. Rigor Mortis. King Diamond. Testament. Ozzy. Merciful Fate. Septic Death. Voivod. Fates Warning. Too Fast For Love. Kix. Savatage. Scores of a lifetime. Sometimes it still happens!
I have a couple of the first Rush album. One is worth a bit ...I never knew it was apparently it is. Like 450 or so/ Great episode Frank...all the best
Totally agree on the VG+ or better rule for used vinyl. My only other rule is to only buy records I plan to listen to. Don't have enough space to buy records just to have them.
The most I’ve ever paid for one LP was $144 usd. I don’t regret it, super clean original pressing. And it was a blind buy. And one time , another blind buy, $65 or so, and it was so clean, and turns out it goes for almost $400, is rare from 1969
Hello Frank! Excellent rules that are easy to follow and keeps ones bloodpressure in control. Although I follow the same protocol , once in a while I break some of them. It’s when it comes to grails. I recently bought Led Zeppelin’s 1990 6Lp box for about $200 , roughly recalculated from Swedish Crowns. The spine on the box is a little sun-bleached and I had to replace the foam in the bottom , otherwise the vinyl was so clean & pristine it almost sounds fresh of the press. Rock on. /Roger.
I've been buing records from antique/thrift stores for 50 years and I live on the road mostly. This vinyl resurgence has really been a hindrance to me but, thank goodness, the young collectors don't like 45s and 78s -or- early 1960's and older music. Also, they mostly buy classic rock that I grew up with and rarely listen to. I am glad to see young people's enthusiasm for records and I enjoy the videos.
Good rules. About number 4: I always thought that colored vinyl sounded just as good as regular back, however, if it's a colored pattern, it doesn't. I noticed that especially splatter colored records will become VERY NOISY when US cleaned with my Degritter Mark II. The US cleaning is so thorough, it reveals the "true colors" of the record (see what I did there?). I avoid any record that has some kind of colored pattern.
I'm a Shinedown fan and I bought their SOM deluxe edition on Discogs years ago brand new sealed for 200. It is now worth over 500.00 on Discogs when available. Only 500 worldwide were made and SOM went Platinum when the released they double LP deluxe black album.
The VG/VG+ rule depends on the seller, or shop I think. I know an online shop (I can't buy records in a regular store, because they're too far away), you have to buy at least EX to get VG+ condition. The records then still have a good price, but I have to keep that in mind, when I buy records at that online shop.
Good rules. My big rule is no record purchases if I have the CD, unless the CD is in poor condition or the record is priced below $10. Garth Brooks put out a bunch of copies of his albums on vinyl, and I allowed myself to get a copy of my favorite one because it was $10.
With prices for new records escalating, I think twice before I buy a new record. There are still quite a few new LP's in the $20. price range. The funny thing is, that $20. US LP often comes out of the same factory which makes the $40.+ US LP. Sometimes the weight of the vinyl varies but in some cases it's the same album using the same stampers. I have a huge 7" 45 rpm collection in the 1,000's. Becoming fascinated with them as a small child in the '50's, I was hooked. From day one, when RCA Victor introduced the 45 rpm single it introduced the 45rpm record changer with them. They held a stack of 10-12 45's and there was no problem with changing records. Jukeboxes are cool too(I have several) and they hold 50-100 45's, so there's no hassle changing records. In a past life, as a radio DJ, 45's were the heart of the industry. Because radio stations got different versions of some 45's that you couldn't buy, they were unique. I have lot's of radio station promo 45's in my collection. I will still buy 45's, especially the new boxed sets which have come out, but I shy away from buying used 45's due to hidden damage that you don't find until you get them home and play them. When I find 45's for sale, if they aren't organized or categorized, I just keep walking. If they aren't in sleeves, original good sleeves or new sleeves, I won't waste my time looking through them.
I follow almost all your 7 rules, except sometimes I will buy 7" record if the song isn't on an album and its one of my top bands. And also I might buy a counterfeit if I think the record will never officially come out, and to buy it used the price is ridiculous. Another rule I have, is if the album isn't from one of my like top 10 artists, I have to like the majority of the record, because if, for example, I have an album that I only like 3 songs, but not the rest, I don't wanna have to keep getting up to move the needle plus flipping it. For those kind of albums, I will buy the CD, or listen digitally.
I have one I've developed recently - The cleaner/minimalist the record store, the more I know I'm not going to find the records I like in there. If the store is plastered with rock/local show posters and has CD's overflowing in crates below the shelves, then I know I'm more likely to finds some great metal/punk gems. (Bonus points if it has a space for live bands.) Also, With 7" records, I get those more from local/underground bands at either their shows or on bandcamp to support them.
Great tips Frank. I’d adjust one a bit - don’t set limits. No one will know your budget, your collection, and the rarity of seeing certain grails on the wild better than the person. And like you said, if situations change, you can always sell. And if you have any doubts on a pricing record…don’t make a rash buy. If it’s sealed…it’s so hard to tell a certain pressing, any warping or off gassing, etc. will take a “holy grail” pickup and make it a nightmare instantly.
I am kind of a sucker when it comes to colored vinyl but I will only pay a little bit more for it if I think it's too high then I will go with the black and vinyl. And I usually stay away from picture discs because of the quality
Great episode as usual, thanks Frank. I only buy older pressing of older material before it went digital in the process. I will buy reissues if they have been mastered all analogue as Ozzy has been doing. Analogue from the performers to your speakers, not, the musicians (analogue) into digital mastering,-digital pressing-analogue album - analogue speakers, you end up with a 12" CD. Always exceptions. This keeps my collection to a reasonable size, about 200 albums. In my twenties I had 100's and 100s but the thing I had then was the possiblty of time to listen to them all, now my collection is all grails, to me, and I listen to them all. In the eighties the x-wife wanted records and turntable out, and CD player and CDs in. I gave most of the albums to NAITs Radio and Television Arts Program, and when walking around I'd often hear one of my albums playing. I have collected back just about all of my most listened to albums. Very enjoyable and not so overwhelming.
Thanks Dave! I think I recall you telling me you donated all your albums to the radio and TV program. I love your philosophy of collecting analog records only. Cheers Frank
Great video, Frank! It's nice to review or make up rules as we go now and then. I agree with having a maximum amount of money to spend. That's a no-brainer! I'm with you that about $40 is enough nowadays. As far as grails go, if it's something that you've always wanted and especially if you don't see it often or at all, then use your own judgment. I never buy 45s anymore. Back in the day of top 40 radio they were a way to see if you might like the lp they were on. I remember I bought most of mine for .66 cents!! And I do agree with buying black vinyl. But on RSD offerings, it's difficult as a lot of reissues are on coloued or splattered vinyl. Keep on spinning Frank 👍
You heading down for the Fargo Record fair coming up? They started one last year here in Bismarck North Dakota as well. Probably smaller, but I still found some amazing stuff. Not sure when the Bismarck one will drop.
I was thinking about it (it's this coming up weekend), but I can't swing it this year. I'm going to aim to go in 2025. Here's hoping the Bismarck show comes soon for you!
I agree with all of your rules except for one. When it comes to the price and it is over what you think you should spend, stop and think would I skip over this purchase for the price of a coffee? I say skip the coffee, beer or habit and spend the money on the vinyl that will last. Keep on spinning!
I typed a bunch of answers here, but I love this vid so much I'm gong to do my own responses to these questions (all credit given to you of course lol)....if you don't mind. LOVE these vid!
Lots of great rules here and many that I use as well. I would say that my spending limit for any record is around $30. I recently picked up a copy of the original Star Wars a new Hope soundtrack for 35 at a pawnshop, but I had to make an exception for that! I also don’t really like the 7 inch singles as well!
Frank I agree with you 100% on the Love for black vinyl. I like some colored vinyl but for the most part I love black vinyl more & I absolutely hate when a record goes snap , crackle & pop. Whether it skips or whatever the case maybe the snap , crackle & pop ruins the enjoyment of the music for me. Another Video that's Gold here Frank. Take Care & I'll Keep on Spinning. 👍🏻🪙👍🏻
The thing about blind buys is they can go either way, great or sucky. I bought the first Blue Oyster Cult album sound unheard and it turned out to be one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. On the other hand I bought an album by a band called The Flock based on a stellar writeup in Stereo Review magazine, and it was HORRIBLE! Today there is really no need to buy a new album without being able to preview it (on Bandcamp or You Tube, for example). Back in the 1970's that wasn't really an option. There was a record store downtown (Record Rendezvous) that did have listening booths so that one could try out records, but that was the exception rather than the norm.
Gotta say, our rules are identical to yours Frank. Thanks for sharing. By the way, are you going to buy the be Cure album? Also, do you like the songs they have released so far from it?🎧
I have been tempted... I remember when they were released, I had one in my shopping cart from kissonline. It was $25 or $30 (I can't remember exactly) and I passed. Another stupid mistake I made...
@@Channel33RPM I hear you. That’s why I snagged Geddy Lee’s My Favourite Headache and Alex Lifeson’s Victor that were issued on vinyl recently. Those won’t last long on the market.
Those are some good rules to live and purchase by. Going armed with them into record stores, flea markets and garage sales provides guidance in chaos. Another good rule is to break the rules if you need to. I collect classical LPs and 60s jazz; one of my first bits of advice years ago came from discerning collectors who advised me to look very carefully at the surface of records for imperfections of all persuasions: cuts, scratches, rubs, mold, etc. and that became my own personal Rule #1, do not buy questionable-looking vinyl. Heartbreaking at times, but for me it was NMs only: good for my listening enjoyment; excellent for my wallet (for it often meant going without). For years I followed my rule religiously but then I came across some LPs that - though they did not look esp. good - I thought I should risk them. I did and was rewarded with a number of records that were F to G in appearance; but play VG to NM! I'm a LITTLE more adventurous in my purchases now.
I also avoid blind buys, even on records which it’s been 20+ or more since I’ve heard because sometimes my tastes have changed. On counterfeit records, I have a few and they sound fairly good but would agree that they probably from a digital source.
My rule is always open every vinyl I buy (exception: duplicate / gift). Even those old sealed first pressings. I bought a sealed first pressing of the doors self titled and didn’t open it for six months- finally I did I was hit with a glue odor…and it was a scratched up used POS that has a new cover glued to the front of the sleeve. It was really odd… still working on the claim with Mastercard. So I will always immediately open vinyl. Especially any sealed first pressings i buy off e eBay
I've been reevaluating my rules lately due to cost. 1. $30 for a single album is the limit. $35 for a double. 2. For new releases, check the CD price first. If the CD is more than $10 cheaper, just buy the CD. 3. Try to find it used if it is something that is easy to find. 4. No blind buys. 5. Buy stuff in decent condition 6. Don't put put a record on the shelf until after it's been played.
Hi Frank.. taking about Grails.. I bought Alice Coopers Schools Out original Mint.Cost me $150AU.The thing is I had never heard it proper stereo before I bought it.
I’ve had to impose stricter rules on myself for buying duplicates of records I have already. 1. If I’m deciding between what records to buy, stuff I don’t have yet always gets priority. 2. The duplicate has to be substantially different or substantially better than what I have already. 3. Unless there is a compelling reason to keep both, I have to make getting rid of the old version a priority.
With an exception here and there Frank, I don't bother with vinyl LPs that I already have on CD. 📀 A notable exception is my copy of the ST for SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER (1977) . $40. was the most I ever paid for a CD. Fortunately, it turned out to be a good CD. 📀
Buy by 'feel' --- does what you Want to know about it outweigh what you Don't know about it? I pick up some records because of the cover art and don't concern myself about liking the content. Then, when the content turns out to be really good, the art seems even better. That happened to me with Sandy Nelson's Boogaloo Beat.
I don't necessarily have rules, and that's mostly because I consider myself more of a music collector than a record collector. But I enjoyed your list and had my own options: 1. Grails - Certainly, yes... if you come across grail and the price isn't exorbitant, you should grab it if you can afford it. 2. VG+ - I'd say I feel this way about the disk but not the jacket. Again, that goes back to me not being a record collector. 3. $30 New - That's generally my limit, yes. I'd go higher if I knew it was a REALLY good pressing of something otherwise hard to find. 4. Colored Vinyl - Agreed, I would not pay extra and if the black is an option at the same price, I go black. 5. Blind Buys - I do like taking risks on cheaper used disks, $6 - $10 on something I'm curious about. I took a risk at $14 for the Neil & Liam Finn album "Light Sleeper" and I didn't care for it. 6. No 7" Singles - I don't buy them and probably wouldn't unless I came across a large collection at a good price 7. No Counterfeit - Yea, no... I would not be interested in the scenario you described either.
I agree, I don't add anything to my collection below VG+. I'm willing to wait for a clean copy instead of settling on a lower grade copy. For my "want list", I like a deal, but know your prices because when I find something I want, I'm not gonna worry about it if it's a couple of bucks higher in price. It's in front of me now, so if it's $5 or $10 higher than I wanted, if the quality is there, I'll pull the trigger.
those seem like all good solid rules. As far as the grails, it does depend on price. However, I've been there where I've seen something, passed and it was gone. Learning that lesson, last year I did pick up an original promo pressing of Hendrix War Heroes even though I had 2 other copies. Just thought, I've never seen one before and most likely never that clean again. Was just $40 USD so not bad. As far as counterfeits, I only bought one once. I did read about it and got good marks for sound and it was limited to around just 1K copies. Paid $60 USD with shipping from Portugal. It was a reproduction of the first Zeppelin album with the turquoise lettering on the plum Atlantic label. Knew I would never pay over $1,500 for a real one. They did a great job as far as sound and packaging. I believe the only thing that they changed was the etching in the run out groove. You can find it listed on Discogs but it's banned from being sold on the site.
The correct term for Counterfeit Records is Pirate Records. Some people get confused and call them Bootlegs. Bootlegs are usually comprised of non released studio material or live material. I only have two rules nowadays regarding buying vinyl. Do I want it, and is it reasonably priced. I'm not fussed if it is a reissue. There are 5 vinyl albums I require, and one is second-hand availability only due to being an RSD issue. On a different note, one nice surprise was finding recently the Voivod CD Box Set of their early albums and the dvd cheap at HMV. It was £17.99 and was £39.99 originally. Amazon had it at £45.99. I had heard snippets of their early material. I have played albums and 3 tonight. Killing Technology was enjoyable.
In 2024, I'm on board with all 7 rules. I have bought a lot more "new used" records and 4/5 times it's a NM, occasionally a VG+ (my local shop grades very well 👍 ). I have yet to buy a bootleg, and though I would be tempted, I probably wouldn't even buy a bootleg of 10,000 Days by Tool; I'll keep waiting for a repress (20th anniversary in 2026 🤞) ONE personal exception might be Badland's Voodoo Highway (I have the debut on vinyl). Given the very unfortunate and complicated circumstances surrounding Badlands and the Ray Gillen situation after his passing...it's made 1991's Voodoo Highway very pricy. I had always hoped Atlantic could make an arrangement with the victims' families to split album sales 50/50 or something...not likely though. Cheers!
I’ve gotten way more liberal with my record purchases. Used to just be albums that I’d get a lot of play out of but as my collection has grown, the amount that each individual record gets played goes down. If it’s an “important album” in the genres I listen to, I’ll pick it up even if I know I won’t play it very often. My most recent example of this was F♯ A♯ ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor. I also frequently blind buy vintage records at the thrift shop. It’s not always the most interesting music but for less than a dollar each there have been some winners! I am definitely learning to pick up grail records when I see them, though. I recently got an original pressing of Death Cab for Cutie’s Plans for a decent price. It’s not exactly a grail record, but I’m definitely glad I have it instead of a reissue.
Back in the day (late 80s and early 90s) as a teen, almost everything was a blind buy. I would hear a song on the radio, or see it on Much Music, and, at least, buy the album it was on. Some times, if I really liked the song, it could be multiple albums from the artist. Back then it was tapes, at first, then CDs. At the time, records were something my dad listened too, and I mostly listened on my Walkman, then in my truck. It was about 15 years ago when I started buying records.
I agree with rule #1. I just had the chance to buy the first Tin Machine album last night. It hasn’t been available since the early ‘90’s and is a grail I’ve been after for years. I probably paid $10 or $15 more than I should but I never see it and knew the time to buy was right now. As far as grading I will go for NM whenever possible but VG+ might get my money if it is something I’ve had a hard time finding. I love bootlegs. But only live concert recordings. I’m not into demos or previously unreleased tracks… even those included in box sets as bonus discs. I feel the same about counterfeit albums with two exceptions because of their unique place in history. Those are Introducing The Beatles and David Bowie Metrobolis.
I agree with your comment about the counterfeit records. Some of the records stores I go in to are fill with these things! Sure, I’d like to have such and such album, but I’ll find the real thing. Like most people I’ve gotten burned on these things. They suck!!
I have more CDs than I do records, so I have what's not so much a firm rule, but a general principle: if I already have it on CD, then think twice about whether I really want it bad enough on record. Or if it is available on CD, think twice about it I really want to spend more for the vinyl. This is a principle I've followed much more over the past couple of years as records have gotten more expensive. I also like cassettes and have a good cassette deck, so sometimes I even opt for that over vinyl lately.
Definately agree with rule number one. Cant remember how many times I have seen something and thought I might be able to get it somewhere cheaper... only to find I cant and then the original find is gone !! When searching on discogs, I look at mint only. I bought something a while ago that was advertised as VG+ and it was in a hell of a state. Vinyl played OK but the album sleeve had been in a war zone!! Final rule - I will never lend my vinyl to people because my previous experiences mean it wont come back, or if it does, its scratched and battered. Keep on spinnin !!
Graham, you raise a good point about people misrepresenting items they are selling online. This is a huge problem. So many sellers don't know (or ignore) what a VG+ record actually is. Cheers, Frank
You’re 100% about buying your rare holy Grail record. About 10 years ago I saw the first pressing of White Zombie’s La Sexoristo on Glow in the Dark Vinyl for only 75 bucks and i had to go home and think about, next day it was gone 😢.
VG+ is my bottom, too. Some sellers on Discogs abuse VG+ like hell, but most of the time, that's where good sound and condition begin. Run-of-the-mill new albums, $30 for me; I'll gladly pay $60 and $40 to Acoustic Sounds for their A75 series and other gems.
Gotta say dude, I agree with you on all accounts. The only exception is maybe I'd spend up to $50CAD for a new title, but that's it. We literally have the same rules to collecting. Good on ya!
I collect movies on disc and pretty much follow your same rules here, but would add this: “Never buy a disc for the sole purpose of flipping it for resale profit.” Enjoy the rest of your Socktober, Frank! 🧦-Glen
Vinyl collecting has the unfortunate mantra of “get it or regret it”. For me collecting is about investing, and I have a preference for color variations. The UK just had it’s vinyl celebration day (kinda like record store day, only available from day of release), which included an exclusive white vinyl issue of the Beatles’ “A Hard Day’s Night” LP, which will easily be snapped up by collectors. HMV in the UK and Sunrise in Canada will also be issuing an exclusive powder blue vinyl edition of Capitol’s “Meet The Beatles”, day and date as the rest of the ‘64 Beatles’ Capitol re-issues in November. These Beatles collectibles will only increase in value (and surely be inflated by ‘flippers”).
I have probably 20-25+ unofficial (counterfeit) pressings and have found that many of them that have been pressed over the last 5 or 6 years sound really good, but my rule for those releases is that when/if an official pressing is released that I'll buy a copy to replace the unofficial release. I've done A/B comparisons with several of them and didn't hear a huge difference between the unofficial and official releases.
Great topic, Frank. Here's my take. (1) Agreed. Same when I find something on Discogs that has otherwise all but disappeared. (2) Completely agreed assuming we're talking Goldmine/Discogs VG+. Skips, pops or surface noise can just take me out of the listening experience. (3) That's a tough one but I generally agree. I hardly by brand new records anymore. Recent new pickups saw me pay $24.99 each for a few Rhino Rocktober releases, and I hit up a Numero Group pop-up locally this weekend where I got new records normally priced at $27 for $18. Pressing quality isn't what it used to be, so price HAS to be low (for me). (4) I somewhat disagree, but it depends. If you aren't sure a record is going to be a long-term keeper, paying a few bucks easier to me is worth it because it is usually easier to re-sell. On the other hand, specifically with Numero Group releases, the colored versions - in my experience - have more surface noise than the black version. All things being equal though, I prefer black. (5) I generally agree on avoiding blind buys at this point because space is at a premium, but I'll take chances when the record is a good deal less than $10, or is a cheap 45. (6) I don't often buy 45s, but when I am flying to a place where I'll also pop into record stores, I only buy 45s because they're easy to travel on airplanes with. (7) Completely agree. Counterfeits should be destroyed - bootlegs are a different thing entirely. My only other rue is to always remember that a dollar spent on a reissue is a dollar not spent on an original. Space is at a premium, and heck, so is money and I just enjoy originals more anyway. That said, if it's music I really like and the OG is physically or financially unobtainium... you buy a reissue. Like any rules for a hobby, there are always shades of gray. I hope all is well up there! Cheers, Tom
Tom - good to hear from you. I just realized I haven't seen your vids forever. I checked and somehow I was unsubscribed. Anyway, I went and fixed that. BTW, the guy who has been sponsoring my vids is from your neck of the woods. Hope all is well. Frank
Most of my rules are the same as your rules. VG+ or better, black vinyl preferred, don't collect 7". One rule I try to stick to is not to buy an lp if I already own the cd, unless it's one of my top 5-ish favourite bands. I also try to not have multiple copies of the same album on vinyl. I won't pay more for gimmicky ephemera but I will pay extra for deluxe sets that include extra tracks and alternate mixes. Great video Frank!
1) Packaging. If 2024 RSD version is remastered for vinyl, has gatefold and a 32 page booklet vs the 1982 original paper sleeved skinny plain jane version, the latter can be $10 cheaper or $20 more, as long as the recent one is reasonably priced, I'd rather have new. 2) Price. Going with above, believe it or not, some places charge more for the plain black version...so again, provided it's not different audio wise, I'll take the pink version or puke splatter. But vice versa if it's that way too. 3) this is tricky but I'm more into used records now, and only because in shop I can see what I'm buying. Online is a mixed bag, but what both (brick and online stores) have in common with "new" is that, more often then not, I get some BS after peeling back the cellophane...I mean warped records is one thing but I recently unwrapped a new record that has scratches (likely from inner sleeve and grinding within). And the worst part is most places are no returns or exchanges. Next to last at #4, I actually prefer blind buys of 7-inches, esp if they can be bought for $5 and under. These are followed closely by 12-inch compilations long out of print. The key allure of both is most of the time you are getting something special that is not available on streaming, and is usually as passionate of an output from an artist as you can get. I'm not talking Kiss Casablanca 7-inch singles as much as an old Chess record with a B-side nobody has heard in ages. Or the novelty of a rare b-side from a popular artist that just isn't on streaming. Finally, #5, believe it or not, I try not to duplicate or "upgrade" to a vinyl version unless it's $1.00 bin and "why not" at least to cut a coaster from the spindle if it plays like crap. My only overlaps are AC/DC back in black on Vinyl and CD and VH's WACF on cassette and vinyl and CD. I try to buy on vinyl what I don't own in another format and I never duplicate vinyl titles. And expanding there, a lot of times, I'll buy albums of an artist I love but never listened to the specific album of purchase. IE, last 3 Ministry albums Amerikkkant, Moral Hygeine, and Hopiumforthemasses...never listened to one note despite playlisting on Spotify/AppleMusic. So bought them on vinyl recently, on an Amazon sale. They're great and no regrets and I still enjoy Mind and Psalm on CD time to time.
Yo, a question I have for next Q&A. Whats the real deal of reissues being spread out into two sometimes 3 vinyls? Are they ripping us off or is it about better sounds? What is the truth?
I just spent $5 on a new LP. Barnes & Noble marked it 50% off due to a cover crease. It was also autographed and when I went to pay, it was only $5 USD. Jake Buggs, whoever that is.
I'm a completist, so I've had to buy some bootlegs to complete a discography. Motley Crue, for instance, has 2 albums not available officially on vinyl, so I got the bootlegs for New Tattoo and Generation Swine. Like you, Sonic Boom is the only Kiss i need on vinyl, It IS officially available, so in that case, i WON'T buy a bootleg. I bought Balance on vinyl when it was new, and kept it sealed all these years. I dont want to sell it, but if ever need quick cash, i will
My rules - which does have exceptions like most things. 1) curated list. Stick to that list whenever possible. 2) if I won’t listen and love it doesn’t come home. If I realize it doesn’t meet those criteria after it’s home it’s gone. 3) $40 is limit (shipping might go above that of course). 4) plenty of low quality vinyl in my collection - a Beatles white album I got for $5 as it was beat up. It sounds pristine. It’s totally scratched. It’s important to know what is a scratch and what is damage! ….and yep NO BLIND BUYS!
My number one rule is stick to what you like and don’t feel pressured into buying an album because someone else says it’s brilliant and you should have it in the collection. Yes I’ve bought a fair few records as a result of recommendations but I always stream it first. I personally love 7” singles. Despite them being a pain to change over, they can be a great way to build a varied collection relatively cheaply. That’s just my opinion 😊. Cheers Frank. 🙏🙏 PS £30 is my “usual“ ceiling for new albums/pressings.
being a newbie to vinyl collecting I guess I need to come up with my own set of rules. havn't came across any grails yet. lol even if I did probably out of my price limit i'm ok with just buying everything new for right now.
Tsk tsk Frank...my nearly 5K of 45s are not really happy with you right now...heh heh... Overall,, wise, logical list, and good tips all the way around as always...have a great week!
@TKRVideoCentral -- You're my kind of collector. I number mine to catalog and have 5,170.. Changing a record is good exercise! I own some extended-play 45's too. Usually 2 tracks per side. They're like mini-albums. Most come in cardboard jackets with cool artwork.
Give yourself a block of time to shop. 1) If you find a grail at a record store - always grab immediately, review condition and play if possible. Hold onto the record for as long as possible until you need to check out. 2) Discogs and eBay - must be M/NM from a well regarded seller; Record stores: review under the best light possible. 3) Preview the record either on an available in-house turntable or on Apple Music or TH-cam 4) Set a budget 5) Try to buy black vinyl as much as possible 6) 7” and 10” records must be from favorite artists 7) Buy at least one record or piece of merchandise from a brick & mortar record store per visit. 8) clean your records when you get home
I don’t have enough money to collect. I only buy cds for actually listening and enjoying (rarely lps though I do have some), and only cds I really love. If the album is not at least very good, I don’t buy it. I have no room for mediocre or bad albums no matter how rare. If the album is great and there is a rare version out there with very interesting bonus tracks (perhaps a whole live show on a bonus disc) I am interested and willing to pay for it. But 30-40 euros is usually the most I will pay. I have only 5-6 cds or lps that cost 50 euros or more. I simply want to have my favorite albums as a best version available.
Good rules, Frank - but here's something I do that transgresses a couple: I don't buy 7" singles any more - my brother and I have thousands of the things - but I do get a UK music magazine on subscription, called 'Electronic Sound'. Every month, it will have an achingly rare 7" on coloured vinyl. They are produced solely for the magazine, and sell out very quickly. In my defence, I only buy coloured vinyl albums if they contain extra material that I have not encountered before. Otherwise, no.
My number one question to myself when I have a stack in my hands. Will I listen it more than 5 times? I dont it buy just to have . Unless its Kiss items because Ive been collecting Kiss since the 90s. I do buy re issues and remastered of my favorites lps to compare and find myself pulling those more than the OG a lot of times.
Hey Frank! My rules for vinyl collecting: never go more than 125€ for the very rare records. Minimum vg for my used dj records and vg+ for albums and EP's. Sleeves for the dj records i don't much care about them tbh. And also i love just a good dj record bootleg, special remix or added (different) vocals on other songs. for those i'm a real crate digger. Also i prefer black records too.
Thanks Frank! I agree with VG+ as a minimum...otherwise I won't listen to it. I avoid colored vinyl, as I am concerned about higher noise floor. As I buy a fair number of "audiophile" releases, I have to raise my price limit...I guess I buy fewer but in my opinion higher quality (love Kevin Gray remasters).
Totally agree with the used vinyl condition, I also am a VG+ only guy. Same with blind buys, I stream as much as possible before buying any physical media. Great video Frank
I buy 7” almost exclusively. I still an buy LP every week, but I’m running out of ideas for what I want. I can always find 45s I want.
The first rule is SO relatable. I once saw a copy of Dragonforce's Inhumane Rampage on LP and it was selling for $150. I thought I would wait for it to be a little cheaper. Few months later copies are selling for $400 now. It's my biggest regret in vinyl record collecting.
An interesting idea for a video, is I would absolutely love to see more of your 'biggest regrets' in vinyl collecting, I'd love to hear your stories!
I started collecting 7" (we called them 45s back then) in the early 70s. I heard a song on the radio that I fell in love with and ran out to get the 45. When I brought it home and put it on it seemed to be missing something. It was Come Sail Away by Styx. Strangely enough the version I heard on the radio was the album version and it has an amazing synth solo that they removed to make the single shorter. I went out and purchased the album in order to get that song and discovered how many other amazing songs were on that album that never made it to "single" status or got played on the radio etc... That was my first LP I ever purchased and my last 45.
NUMBER 4, is such a beautiful rule..✌️🤘👊 many thanks as always Frank and Family!
Hey! Good to see you back at it. These are great topics and like I have said, I appreciate your content and your passion for vinyl. With all of the "rules" that we all place on each other, sometimes even falling into other music music genres, those rules often bend depending on what you are into. Exploring those other types could be a great addition to this or at least a side topic. New music genre, and then a whole new world and rules apply. Have a great one. Cheers!!!
I keep learning about missing out on great copies, I just had a famous artist put out his own solo works, only 300 copies, but a genre he’s not known for. I thought I’d wait a week because they weren’t selling particularly fast. Yesterday when I went to purchase of course they’re all gone. You’re 100% right, just get it there and then.
Onboard with the rules with one exception: when I travel, I always like asking a record store I’m visiting for a recommendation. This allows me to walk away with something that represents the store, but also turns me onto new music. All but once I really enjoyed the blind buy, so it’s one rule of yours that I’d break 😉
My guidelines or rules to follow are fairly simple always inspect what you are buying and buy what you want not what others say are must haves and last never hesitate on a grail record it took me 2 more years to track one down I passed on and cost me more money in the end.
I just grabbed a grail last week.. dr feelgood motley crue... glad i did its minty.
I won’t pay a lot for a 7in, but I find them fun to buy because many record stores, antique stores, and yard/garage sales practically give them away!
True - I have found a few very valuable singles in stacks of 7 inch records.
Lol i paid 15 bucks for barret strong, money original.. thats as high as i will go. But its one of my all time favs since i was a kid... had to have it. 😂
Ps.. i have 1000s of 45s.
“No 7 inch singles” 😂 I own in the neighborhood of 900 at this very moment. I’m on a mission to collect every hit song from the 80s. To be fair, it’s more about the cool picture sleeves than actually listening to them. But someday I can see myself DJing an 80s-themed party or whatever and spinning exclusively 7”s 😁
Hahahaha me too! Still looking for sunglasses at night by corey hart. I have the sleeve... but not the 7in.
As a music listener, rather than a collector, I also favor new black vinyl, and I’m a sucker for “180 gram” since they tend to be less warped. When it comes to used records I don’t buy records that are in poor shape. I can tolerate a ring worn sleeve, and an inner sleeve in need of repair, but I only buy used records that I can rescue and clean up a little. Ultimately this is not a financial investment, but rather a time investment, also known as a hobby, so I try to just have fun.
As one's playback system improves in sensitivity over time condition becomes more important
Ive seen terrible albums.. my sam cooke and franki valli albums had plants growing half way through them when they were given to me cause they were all wet... huge box of em. It took me months to clean em all.. but they cleaned right up.. not a scratch on em and incredible sound... ive also found good looking records that are terrible. The 180 grm are awesome but the thin ones if taken care of correctly wont warp.. there is a way to flaten em back out, but you gotta be watching em like a hawk. Easiest is on flat surface in hot vehicle. Always try on one you arent fond of first to see how it works. Its about saving the songs after all. 😇
Ha! With the exception to the last one maybe, these match up with my rules to a T!!!
hey frank...i really dont have any set rules, living off my social security check, so it always depends on the situation (bills to pay, how hard it is to find, asking price, etc...)...
but one rule you said struck a nerve...blind buys...
i used to leave a record store not knowing half of the albums i bought that just looked interesting..nowadays i cant even afford the ones i know and want...but in the immortal words of jagger...
'..ya' get what ya' need..'
great video.. hope the family is well..peace always to you man..rocky
Ya get what ya need... yes, indeed. Take care my friend.
Frank
Hey, Mark, I totally agree with ALL of those “rules”, especially the one on condition because condition is EVERYTHING when it comes to records! VG+ or better with me as well, unless it’s a truly rare record. In that case, I will buy it (for a reasonable price) and it’s a space-filler until the nicer copy comes along. Love the videos; keep ‘em coming!
Love your sixth rule..... means all the more for me! I have a turntable with a SAEC WE-308L. That tone arm is 11 inches long and has the Stevenson geometry. This sees both null points falling within the play area of a 7 inch record( very low distortion). Combine that with the 45 rpm( better dynamics and potential better sound) and you have a recipe for very good play back ( better than 12 inch at 33rpm). Yes I still buy Lps, but now I hunt out those really good condition high quality recorded 7 inch 45s. In record stores I usually have the 7 inch section all to my self.
Hey Frank. Great video. I abide by the same rules and they’ve always served me well. Cheers
Several great points made. The only thing I would add is I don't purchase used items on line. I prefer to crate dig in a shop or show and physically examine the album before pulling the trigger. Any sign of damage or imperfection that can not be fixed with a simple wash I pass on. Sure returns are usually easy but why deal with the hassle of the mail when it can be avoided. Other than that our rules seem to line up pretty close.
Great Video as a collector, Im totally agreed of getting VG+
Haven't done this in a good while - but had a blast going to a friend's house with a big box of 7" (you know... maybe the D's-H's or something, best to grab the box at random) - then hanging out, drinking beer, and taking turns on the turntable. They can be a lot of fun.
I ran across a gold mine at my local shop. I was the first to look through 2 boxes of og metal. For some reason they were priced no higher than $12.99. Crazy titles too. Reign in Blood. Kill Em All. Rigor Mortis. King Diamond. Testament. Ozzy. Merciful Fate. Septic Death. Voivod. Fates Warning. Too Fast For Love. Kix. Savatage. Scores of a lifetime. Sometimes it still happens!
That being said, I just paid up for Megadeth Peace Sells and a Townes Van Zandt album on Tomato. If I didn't, they will be gone
I have a couple of the first Rush album. One is worth a bit ...I never knew it was apparently it is. Like 450 or so/
Great episode Frank...all the best
Thanks for watching!
Totally agree on the VG+ or better rule for used vinyl. My only other rule is to only buy records I plan to listen to. Don't have enough space to buy records just to have them.
Hi Frank, I fully agree with your ules and follow them myself.
The most I’ve ever paid for one LP was $144 usd. I don’t regret it, super clean original pressing. And it was a blind buy.
And one time , another blind buy, $65 or so, and it was so clean, and turns out it goes for almost $400, is rare from 1969
Hello Frank! Excellent rules that are easy to follow and keeps ones bloodpressure in control. Although I follow the same protocol , once in a while I break some of them. It’s when it comes to grails. I recently bought Led Zeppelin’s 1990 6Lp box for about $200 , roughly recalculated from Swedish Crowns. The spine on the box is a little sun-bleached and I had to replace the foam in the bottom , otherwise the vinyl was so clean & pristine it almost sounds fresh of the press. Rock on. /Roger.
I've been buing records from antique/thrift stores for 50 years and I live on the road mostly. This vinyl resurgence has really been a hindrance to me but, thank goodness, the young collectors don't like 45s and 78s -or- early 1960's and older music. Also, they mostly buy classic rock that I grew up with and rarely listen to. I am glad to see young people's enthusiasm for records and I enjoy the videos.
Good rules.
About number 4: I always thought that colored vinyl sounded just as good as regular back, however, if it's a colored pattern, it doesn't.
I noticed that especially splatter colored records will become VERY NOISY when US cleaned with my Degritter Mark II.
The US cleaning is so thorough, it reveals the "true colors" of the record (see what I did there?).
I avoid any record that has some kind of colored pattern.
All good rules, Frank! The only one I don't follow is the limit of how much I'll spend on single/double discs. I'm willing to go a bit higher.
I'm a Shinedown fan and I bought their SOM deluxe edition on Discogs years ago brand new sealed for 200. It is now worth over 500.00 on Discogs when available. Only 500 worldwide were made and SOM went Platinum when the released they double LP deluxe black album.
The VG/VG+ rule depends on the seller, or shop I think. I know an online shop (I can't buy records in a regular store, because they're too far away), you have to buy at least EX to get VG+ condition. The records then still have a good price, but I have to keep that in mind, when I buy records at that online shop.
Good rules. My big rule is no record purchases if I have the CD, unless the CD is in poor condition or the record is priced below $10. Garth Brooks put out a bunch of copies of his albums on vinyl, and I allowed myself to get a copy of my favorite one because it was $10.
With prices for new records escalating, I think twice before I buy a new record. There are still quite a few new LP's in the $20. price range. The funny thing is, that $20. US LP often comes out of the same factory which makes the $40.+ US LP. Sometimes the weight of the vinyl varies but in some cases it's the same album using the same stampers.
I have a huge 7" 45 rpm collection in the 1,000's. Becoming fascinated with them as a small child in the '50's, I was hooked. From day one, when RCA Victor introduced the 45 rpm single it introduced the 45rpm record changer with them. They held a stack of 10-12 45's and there was no problem with changing records. Jukeboxes are cool too(I have several) and they hold 50-100 45's, so there's no hassle changing records.
In a past life, as a radio DJ, 45's were the heart of the industry. Because radio stations got different versions of some 45's that you couldn't buy, they were unique. I have lot's of radio station promo 45's in my collection.
I will still buy 45's, especially the new boxed sets which have come out, but I shy away from buying used 45's due to hidden damage that you don't find until you get them home and play them. When I find 45's for sale, if they aren't organized or categorized, I just keep walking. If they aren't in sleeves, original good sleeves or new sleeves, I won't waste my time looking through them.
tripple play rule when i purchase albums.
1- is it a great album
2-condition is everything
3- cool cover is a must
3 good rules.
I dig the list Frank! Many I follow as well!
Good to hear from you Mike!
I follow almost all your 7 rules, except sometimes I will buy 7" record if the song isn't on an album and its one of my top bands. And also I might buy a counterfeit if I think the record will never officially come out, and to buy it used the price is ridiculous. Another rule I have, is if the album isn't from one of my like top 10 artists, I have to like the majority of the record, because if, for example, I have an album that I only like 3 songs, but not the rest, I don't wanna have to keep getting up to move the needle plus flipping it. For those kind of albums, I will buy the CD, or listen digitally.
I have one I've developed recently - The cleaner/minimalist the record store, the more I know I'm not going to find the records I like in there. If the store is plastered with rock/local show posters and has CD's overflowing in crates below the shelves, then I know I'm more likely to finds some great metal/punk gems. (Bonus points if it has a space for live bands.)
Also, With 7" records, I get those more from local/underground bands at either their shows or on bandcamp to support them.
Very similar to my rules. Colour variants annoy me and I'd rather see the dust to clean it away. So plain black is where it's at for me
Great tips Frank. I’d adjust one a bit - don’t set limits. No one will know your budget, your collection, and the rarity of seeing certain grails on the wild better than the person. And like you said, if situations change, you can always sell. And if you have any doubts on a pricing record…don’t make a rash buy. If it’s sealed…it’s so hard to tell a certain pressing, any warping or off gassing, etc. will take a “holy grail” pickup and make it a nightmare instantly.
I am kind of a sucker when it comes to colored vinyl but I will only pay a little bit more for it if I think it's too high then I will go with the black and vinyl. And I usually stay away from picture discs because of the quality
Great episode as usual, thanks Frank. I only buy older pressing of older material before it went digital in the process. I will buy reissues if they have been mastered all analogue as Ozzy has been doing. Analogue from the performers to your speakers, not, the musicians (analogue) into digital mastering,-digital pressing-analogue album - analogue speakers, you end up with a 12" CD. Always exceptions. This keeps my collection to a reasonable size, about 200 albums. In my twenties I had 100's and 100s but the thing I had then was the possiblty of time to listen to them all, now my collection is all grails, to me, and I listen to them all. In the eighties the x-wife wanted records and turntable out, and CD player and CDs in. I gave most of the albums to NAITs Radio and Television Arts Program, and when walking around I'd often hear one of my albums playing. I have collected back just about all of my most listened to albums. Very enjoyable and not so overwhelming.
Thanks Dave! I think I recall you telling me you donated all your albums to the radio and TV program. I love your philosophy of collecting analog records only.
Cheers
Frank
Great video, Frank! It's nice to review or make up rules as we go now and then. I agree with having a maximum amount of money to spend. That's a no-brainer! I'm with you that about $40 is enough nowadays. As far as grails go, if it's something that you've always wanted and especially if you don't see it often or at all, then use your own judgment. I never buy 45s anymore. Back in the day of top 40 radio they were a way to see if you might like the lp they were on. I remember I bought most of mine for .66 cents!! And I do agree with buying black vinyl. But on RSD offerings, it's difficult as a lot of reissues are on coloued or splattered vinyl.
Keep on spinning Frank 👍
Thanks for tuning in!
You heading down for the Fargo Record fair coming up? They started one last year here in Bismarck North Dakota as well. Probably smaller, but I still found some amazing stuff. Not sure when the Bismarck one will drop.
I was thinking about it (it's this coming up weekend), but I can't swing it this year. I'm going to aim to go in 2025. Here's hoping the Bismarck show comes soon for you!
I agree with all of your rules except for one. When it comes to the price and it is over what you think you should spend, stop and think would I skip over this purchase for the price of a coffee? I say skip the coffee, beer or habit and spend the money on the vinyl that will last. Keep on spinning!
I typed a bunch of answers here, but I love this vid so much I'm gong to do my own responses to these questions (all credit given to you of course lol)....if you don't mind. LOVE these vid!
That's awesome, Brandon. I look forward to watching your video.
I only buy if it really grabs my attention. Like something I never had or find interesting. 🤘🏻
Lots of great rules here and many that I use as well. I would say that my spending limit for any record is around $30. I recently picked up a copy of the original Star Wars a new Hope soundtrack for 35 at a pawnshop, but I had to make an exception for that! I also don’t really like the 7 inch singles as well!
Frank I agree with you 100% on the Love for black vinyl. I like some colored vinyl but for the most part I love black vinyl more & I absolutely hate when a record goes snap , crackle & pop. Whether it skips or whatever the case maybe the snap , crackle & pop ruins the enjoyment of the music for me.
Another Video that's Gold here Frank. Take Care & I'll Keep on Spinning. 👍🏻🪙👍🏻
Thanks David.
@Channel33RPM - You got it Frank 👍🏻
All good Frank. I actually have a couple more rules that makes that rabbit hole a little smaller. 👊🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
The thing about blind buys is they can go either way, great or sucky. I bought the first Blue Oyster Cult album sound unheard and it turned out to be one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. On the other hand I bought an album by a band called The Flock based on a stellar writeup in Stereo Review magazine, and it was HORRIBLE! Today there is really no need to buy a new album without being able to preview it (on Bandcamp or You Tube, for example). Back in the 1970's that wasn't really an option. There was a record store downtown (Record Rendezvous) that did have listening booths so that one could try out records, but that was the exception rather than the norm.
Gotta say, our rules are identical to yours Frank. Thanks for sharing. By the way, are you going to buy the be Cure album? Also, do you like the songs they have released so far from it?🎧
I bought the bootleg of KISS Sonic Boom and it sounds great!
I have been tempted... I remember when they were released, I had one in my shopping cart from kissonline. It was $25 or $30 (I can't remember exactly) and I passed. Another stupid mistake I made...
@@Channel33RPM I hear you. That’s why I snagged Geddy Lee’s My Favourite Headache and Alex Lifeson’s Victor that were issued on vinyl recently. Those won’t last long on the market.
Those are some good rules to live and purchase by. Going armed with them into record stores, flea markets and garage sales provides guidance in chaos. Another good rule is to break the rules if you need to. I collect classical LPs and 60s jazz; one of my first bits of advice years ago came from discerning collectors who advised me to look very carefully at the surface of records for imperfections of all persuasions: cuts, scratches, rubs, mold, etc. and that became my own personal Rule #1, do not buy questionable-looking vinyl. Heartbreaking at times, but for me it was NMs only: good for my listening enjoyment; excellent for my wallet (for it often meant going without). For years I followed my rule religiously but then I came across some LPs that - though they did not look esp. good - I thought I should risk them. I did and was rewarded with a number of records that were F to G in appearance; but play VG to NM! I'm a LITTLE more adventurous in my purchases now.
I also avoid blind buys, even on records which it’s been 20+ or more since I’ve heard because sometimes my tastes have changed.
On counterfeit records, I have a few and they sound fairly good but would agree that they probably from a digital source.
My rule is always open every vinyl I buy (exception: duplicate / gift). Even those old sealed first pressings. I bought a sealed first pressing of the doors self titled and didn’t open it for six months- finally I did I was hit with a glue odor…and it was a scratched up used POS that has a new cover glued to the front of the sleeve. It was really odd… still working on the claim with Mastercard. So I will always immediately open vinyl. Especially any sealed first pressings i buy off e eBay
Good rules for all to follow and I pretty much have the same rules.
I've been reevaluating my rules lately due to cost.
1. $30 for a single album is the limit. $35 for a double.
2. For new releases, check the CD price first. If the CD is more than $10 cheaper, just buy the CD.
3. Try to find it used if it is something that is easy to find.
4. No blind buys.
5. Buy stuff in decent condition
6. Don't put put a record on the shelf until after it's been played.
Hi Frank.. taking about Grails.. I bought Alice Coopers Schools Out original Mint.Cost me $150AU.The thing is I had never heard it proper stereo before I bought it.
Congrats on the pickup!
I’ve had to impose stricter rules on myself for buying duplicates of records I have already.
1. If I’m deciding between what records to buy, stuff I don’t have yet always gets priority.
2. The duplicate has to be substantially different or substantially better than what I have already.
3. Unless there is a compelling reason to keep both, I have to make getting rid of the old version a priority.
With an exception here and there Frank, I don't bother with vinyl LPs that I already have on CD. 📀 A notable exception is my copy of the ST for SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER (1977) . $40. was the most I ever paid for a CD. Fortunately, it turned out to be a good CD. 📀
I would add “Don’t miss Record Store Day” ❤
Buy by 'feel' --- does what you Want to know about it outweigh what you Don't know about it?
I pick up some records because of the cover art and don't concern myself about liking the content.
Then, when the content turns out to be really good, the art seems even better.
That happened to me with Sandy Nelson's Boogaloo Beat.
I don't necessarily have rules, and that's mostly because I consider myself more of a music collector than a record collector. But I enjoyed your list and had my own options:
1. Grails - Certainly, yes... if you come across grail and the price isn't exorbitant, you should grab it if you can afford it.
2. VG+ - I'd say I feel this way about the disk but not the jacket. Again, that goes back to me not being a record collector.
3. $30 New - That's generally my limit, yes. I'd go higher if I knew it was a REALLY good pressing of something otherwise hard to find.
4. Colored Vinyl - Agreed, I would not pay extra and if the black is an option at the same price, I go black.
5. Blind Buys - I do like taking risks on cheaper used disks, $6 - $10 on something I'm curious about. I took a risk at $14 for the Neil & Liam Finn album "Light Sleeper" and I didn't care for it.
6. No 7" Singles - I don't buy them and probably wouldn't unless I came across a large collection at a good price
7. No Counterfeit - Yea, no... I would not be interested in the scenario you described either.
I agree, I don't add anything to my collection below VG+.
I'm willing to wait for a clean copy instead of settling on a lower grade copy.
For my "want list", I like a deal, but know your prices because when I find something I want, I'm not gonna worry about it if it's a couple of bucks higher in price. It's in front of me now, so if it's $5 or $10 higher than I wanted, if the quality is there, I'll pull the trigger.
those seem like all good solid rules. As far as the grails, it does depend on price. However, I've been there where I've seen something, passed and it was gone. Learning that lesson, last year I did pick up an original promo pressing of Hendrix War Heroes even though I had 2 other copies. Just thought, I've never seen one before and most likely never that clean again. Was just $40 USD so not bad. As far as counterfeits, I only bought one once. I did read about it and got good marks for sound and it was limited to around just 1K copies. Paid $60 USD with shipping from Portugal. It was a reproduction of the first Zeppelin album with the turquoise lettering on the plum Atlantic label. Knew I would never pay over $1,500 for a real one. They did a great job as far as sound and packaging. I believe the only thing that they changed was the etching in the run out groove. You can find it listed on Discogs but it's banned from being sold on the site.
The correct term for Counterfeit Records is Pirate Records. Some people get confused and call them Bootlegs. Bootlegs are usually comprised of non released studio material or live material.
I only have two rules nowadays regarding buying vinyl.
Do I want it, and is it reasonably priced. I'm not fussed if it is a reissue. There are 5 vinyl albums I require, and one is second-hand availability only due to being an RSD issue.
On a different note, one nice surprise was finding recently the Voivod CD Box Set of their early albums and the dvd cheap at HMV. It was £17.99 and was £39.99 originally. Amazon had it at £45.99. I had heard snippets of their early material. I have played albums and 3 tonight. Killing Technology was enjoyable.
In 2024, I'm on board with all 7 rules. I have bought a lot more "new used" records and 4/5 times it's a NM, occasionally a VG+ (my local shop grades very well 👍 ). I have yet to buy a bootleg, and though I would be tempted, I probably wouldn't even buy a bootleg of 10,000 Days by Tool; I'll keep waiting for a repress (20th anniversary in 2026 🤞) ONE personal exception might be Badland's Voodoo Highway (I have the debut on vinyl). Given the very unfortunate and complicated circumstances surrounding Badlands and the Ray Gillen situation after his passing...it's made 1991's Voodoo Highway very pricy. I had always hoped Atlantic could make an arrangement with the victims' families to split album sales 50/50 or something...not likely though. Cheers!
I’ve gotten way more liberal with my record purchases. Used to just be albums that I’d get a lot of play out of but as my collection has grown, the amount that each individual record gets played goes down. If it’s an “important album” in the genres I listen to, I’ll pick it up even if I know I won’t play it very often. My most recent example of this was F♯ A♯ ∞ by Godspeed You! Black Emperor. I also frequently blind buy vintage records at the thrift shop. It’s not always the most interesting music but for less than a dollar each there have been some winners!
I am definitely learning to pick up grail records when I see them, though. I recently got an original pressing of Death Cab for Cutie’s Plans for a decent price. It’s not exactly a grail record, but I’m definitely glad I have it instead of a reissue.
Back in the day (late 80s and early 90s) as a teen, almost everything was a blind buy. I would hear a song on the radio, or see it on Much Music, and, at least, buy the album it was on. Some times, if I really liked the song, it could be multiple albums from the artist. Back then it was tapes, at first, then CDs. At the time, records were something my dad listened too, and I mostly listened on my Walkman, then in my truck. It was about 15 years ago when I started buying records.
Yep, my cassettes as a young teenager were blind buys because I'd see them advertised in Thrasher magazine.
I agree with rule #1. I just had the chance to buy the first Tin Machine album last night. It hasn’t been available since the early ‘90’s and is a grail I’ve been after for years. I probably paid $10 or $15 more than I should but I never see it and knew the time to buy was right now.
As far as grading I will go for NM whenever possible but VG+ might get my money if it is something I’ve had a hard time finding.
I love bootlegs. But only live concert recordings. I’m not into demos or previously unreleased tracks… even those included in box sets as bonus discs. I feel the same about counterfeit albums with two exceptions because of their unique place in history. Those are Introducing The Beatles and David Bowie Metrobolis.
I agree with your comment about the counterfeit records. Some of the records stores I go in to are fill with these things! Sure, I’d like to have such and such album, but I’ll find the real thing. Like most people I’ve gotten burned on these things. They suck!!
I have more CDs than I do records, so I have what's not so much a firm rule, but a general principle: if I already have it on CD, then think twice about whether I really want it bad enough on record. Or if it is available on CD, think twice about it I really want to spend more for the vinyl. This is a principle I've followed much more over the past couple of years as records have gotten more expensive. I also like cassettes and have a good cassette deck, so sometimes I even opt for that over vinyl lately.
Definately agree with rule number one. Cant remember how many times I have seen something and thought I might be able to get it somewhere cheaper... only to find I cant and then the original find is gone !! When searching on discogs, I look at mint only. I bought something a while ago that was advertised as VG+ and it was in a hell of a state. Vinyl played OK but the album sleeve had been in a war zone!! Final rule - I will never lend my vinyl to people because my previous experiences mean it wont come back, or if it does, its scratched and battered. Keep on spinnin !!
Graham, you raise a good point about people misrepresenting items they are selling online. This is a huge problem. So many sellers don't know (or ignore) what a VG+ record actually is.
Cheers,
Frank
You’re 100% about buying your rare holy Grail record. About 10 years ago I saw the first pressing of White Zombie’s La Sexoristo on Glow in the Dark Vinyl for only 75 bucks and i had to go home and think about, next day it was gone 😢.
Oh man, yeah... that sucks you missed getting that record.
VG+ is my bottom, too. Some sellers on Discogs abuse VG+ like hell, but most of the time, that's where good sound and condition begin. Run-of-the-mill new albums, $30 for me; I'll gladly pay $60 and $40 to Acoustic Sounds for their A75 series and other gems.
Gotta say dude, I agree with you on all accounts.
The only exception is maybe I'd spend up to $50CAD for a new title, but that's it.
We literally have the same rules to collecting. Good on ya!
Great minds... :)
Thanks for tuning in.
I collect movies on disc and pretty much follow your same rules here, but would add this: “Never buy a disc for the sole purpose of flipping it for resale profit.” Enjoy the rest of your Socktober, Frank! 🧦-Glen
Thanks Glen.
Vinyl collecting has the unfortunate mantra of “get it or regret it”. For me collecting is about investing, and I have a preference for color variations. The UK just had it’s vinyl celebration day (kinda like record store day, only available from day of release), which included an exclusive white vinyl issue of the Beatles’ “A Hard Day’s Night” LP, which will easily be snapped up by collectors.
HMV in the UK and Sunrise in Canada will also be issuing an exclusive powder blue vinyl edition of Capitol’s “Meet The Beatles”, day and date as the rest of the ‘64 Beatles’ Capitol re-issues in November. These Beatles collectibles will only increase in value (and surely be inflated by ‘flippers”).
I have probably 20-25+ unofficial (counterfeit) pressings and have found that many of them that have been pressed over the last 5 or 6 years sound really good, but my rule for those releases is that when/if an official pressing is released that I'll buy a copy to replace the unofficial release. I've done A/B comparisons with several of them and didn't hear a huge difference between the unofficial and official releases.
I buy mostly used vinyl, so for me, condition comes first. Then if the price is right.
Great topic, Frank. Here's my take. (1) Agreed. Same when I find something on Discogs that has otherwise all but disappeared. (2) Completely agreed assuming we're talking Goldmine/Discogs VG+. Skips, pops or surface noise can just take me out of the listening experience. (3) That's a tough one but I generally agree. I hardly by brand new records anymore. Recent new pickups saw me pay $24.99 each for a few Rhino Rocktober releases, and I hit up a Numero Group pop-up locally this weekend where I got new records normally priced at $27 for $18. Pressing quality isn't what it used to be, so price HAS to be low (for me). (4) I somewhat disagree, but it depends. If you aren't sure a record is going to be a long-term keeper, paying a few bucks easier to me is worth it because it is usually easier to re-sell. On the other hand, specifically with Numero Group releases, the colored versions - in my experience - have more surface noise than the black version. All things being equal though, I prefer black. (5) I generally agree on avoiding blind buys at this point because space is at a premium, but I'll take chances when the record is a good deal less than $10, or is a cheap 45. (6) I don't often buy 45s, but when I am flying to a place where I'll also pop into record stores, I only buy 45s because they're easy to travel on airplanes with. (7) Completely agree. Counterfeits should be destroyed - bootlegs are a different thing entirely.
My only other rue is to always remember that a dollar spent on a reissue is a dollar not spent on an original. Space is at a premium, and heck, so is money and I just enjoy originals more anyway. That said, if it's music I really like and the OG is physically or financially unobtainium... you buy a reissue. Like any rules for a hobby, there are always shades of gray. I hope all is well up there!
Cheers, Tom
Tom - good to hear from you. I just realized I haven't seen your vids forever. I checked and somehow I was unsubscribed. Anyway, I went and fixed that. BTW, the guy who has been sponsoring my vids is from your neck of the woods. Hope all is well.
Frank
Most of my rules are the same as your rules. VG+ or better, black vinyl preferred, don't collect 7". One rule I try to stick to is not to buy an lp if I already own the cd, unless it's one of my top 5-ish favourite bands. I also try to not have multiple copies of the same album on vinyl. I won't pay more for gimmicky ephemera but I will pay extra for deluxe sets that include extra tracks and alternate mixes. Great video Frank!
I am guilty of owning multiple copies of my favorite albums :)
Bootlegs usually sound terrible, but I like some of them for the cover art.
1) Packaging. If 2024 RSD version is remastered for vinyl, has gatefold and a 32 page booklet vs the 1982 original paper sleeved skinny plain jane version, the latter can be $10 cheaper or $20 more, as long as the recent one is reasonably priced, I'd rather have new. 2) Price. Going with above, believe it or not, some places charge more for the plain black version...so again, provided it's not different audio wise, I'll take the pink version or puke splatter. But vice versa if it's that way too. 3) this is tricky but I'm more into used records now, and only because in shop I can see what I'm buying. Online is a mixed bag, but what both (brick and online stores) have in common with "new" is that, more often then not, I get some BS after peeling back the cellophane...I mean warped records is one thing but I recently unwrapped a new record that has scratches (likely from inner sleeve and grinding within). And the worst part is most places are no returns or exchanges. Next to last at #4, I actually prefer blind buys of 7-inches, esp if they can be bought for $5 and under. These are followed closely by 12-inch compilations long out of print. The key allure of both is most of the time you are getting something special that is not available on streaming, and is usually as passionate of an output from an artist as you can get. I'm not talking Kiss Casablanca 7-inch singles as much as an old Chess record with a B-side nobody has heard in ages. Or the novelty of a rare b-side from a popular artist that just isn't on streaming. Finally, #5, believe it or not, I try not to duplicate or "upgrade" to a vinyl version unless it's $1.00 bin and "why not" at least to cut a coaster from the spindle if it plays like crap. My only overlaps are AC/DC back in black on Vinyl and CD and VH's WACF on cassette and vinyl and CD. I try to buy on vinyl what I don't own in another format and I never duplicate vinyl titles. And expanding there, a lot of times, I'll buy albums of an artist I love but never listened to the specific album of purchase. IE, last 3 Ministry albums Amerikkkant, Moral Hygeine, and Hopiumforthemasses...never listened to one note despite playlisting on Spotify/AppleMusic. So bought them on vinyl recently, on an Amazon sale. They're great and no regrets and I still enjoy Mind and Psalm on CD time to time.
i RECOMMEND buy ONLY "classic" press ! ♥♥♥
Yo, a question I have for next Q&A. Whats the real deal of reissues being spread out into two sometimes 3 vinyls? Are they ripping us off or is it about better sounds? What is the truth?
I just spent $5 on a new LP. Barnes & Noble marked it 50% off due to a cover crease. It was also autographed and when I went to pay, it was only $5 USD. Jake Buggs, whoever that is.
I'm a completist, so I've had to buy some bootlegs to complete a discography. Motley Crue, for instance, has 2 albums not available officially on vinyl, so I got the bootlegs for New Tattoo and Generation Swine. Like you, Sonic Boom is the only Kiss i need on vinyl, It IS officially available, so in that case, i WON'T buy a bootleg. I bought Balance on vinyl when it was new, and kept it sealed all these years. I dont want to sell it, but if ever need quick cash, i will
i tell ya this Frank i got a top deal on the week end a monty python LP box set from 2014 still sealed for $100
My rules - which does have exceptions like most things. 1) curated list. Stick to that list whenever possible. 2) if I won’t listen and love it doesn’t come home. If I realize it doesn’t meet those criteria after it’s home it’s gone. 3) $40 is limit (shipping might go above that of course). 4) plenty of low quality vinyl in my collection - a Beatles white album I got for $5 as it was beat up. It sounds pristine. It’s totally scratched. It’s important to know what is a scratch and what is damage! ….and yep NO BLIND BUYS!
My number one rule is stick to what you like and don’t feel pressured into buying an album because someone else says it’s brilliant and you should have it in the collection. Yes I’ve bought a fair few records as a result of recommendations but I always stream it first. I personally love 7” singles. Despite them being a pain to change over, they can be a great way to build a varied collection relatively cheaply. That’s just my opinion 😊. Cheers Frank. 🙏🙏
PS £30 is my “usual“ ceiling for new albums/pressings.
7" and remix 12" are fun for playing DJ at home.
being a newbie to vinyl collecting I guess I need to come up with my own set of rules. havn't came across any grails yet. lol even if I did probably out of my price limit i'm ok with just buying everything new for right now.
It's probably just me who has rules, haha. Without them, I would just go down too many rabbit holes :)
@@Channel33RPM I get it ,being new I have a list of 5 bands to buy when I get what I want from each band ill mark it off and add another
Tsk tsk Frank...my nearly 5K of 45s are not really happy with you right now...heh heh... Overall,, wise, logical list, and good tips all the way around as always...have a great week!
Wow! Sounds like a killer collection! I have been tempted, just had to draw a line somewhere...
@TKRVideoCentral -- You're my kind of collector. I number mine to catalog and have 5,170.. Changing a record is good exercise!
I own some extended-play 45's too. Usually 2 tracks per side. They're like mini-albums. Most come in cardboard jackets with cool artwork.
@@pgh45rpms A collector after my own heart, LOL! 45s rock!
Give yourself a block of time to shop.
1) If you find a grail at a record store - always grab immediately, review condition and play if possible. Hold onto the record for as long as possible until you need to check out.
2) Discogs and eBay - must be M/NM from a well regarded seller; Record stores: review under the best light possible.
3) Preview the record either on an available in-house turntable or on Apple Music or TH-cam
4) Set a budget
5) Try to buy black vinyl as much as possible
6) 7” and 10” records must be from favorite artists
7) Buy at least one record or piece of merchandise from a brick & mortar record store per visit.
8) clean your records when you get home
I don’t have enough money to collect. I only buy cds for actually listening and enjoying (rarely lps though I do have some), and only cds I really love. If the album is not at least very good, I don’t buy it. I have no room for mediocre or bad albums no matter how rare.
If the album is great and there is a rare version out there with very interesting bonus tracks (perhaps a whole live show on a bonus disc) I am interested and willing to pay for it. But 30-40 euros is usually the most I will pay. I have only 5-6 cds or lps that cost 50 euros or more.
I simply want to have my favorite albums as a best version available.
Good rules, Frank - but here's something I do that transgresses a couple: I don't buy 7" singles any more - my brother and I have thousands of the things - but I do get a UK music magazine on subscription, called 'Electronic Sound'. Every month, it will have an achingly rare 7" on coloured vinyl. They are produced solely for the magazine, and sell out very quickly. In my defence, I only buy coloured vinyl albums if they contain extra material that I have not encountered before. Otherwise, no.
My number one question to myself when I have a stack in my hands. Will I listen it more than 5 times? I dont it buy just to have . Unless its Kiss items because Ive been collecting Kiss since the 90s. I do buy re issues and remastered of my favorites lps to compare and find myself pulling those more than the OG a lot of times.
Hmm. Even my copy of Too Fast... Is from Elektra, and I got it in like 85. I dunno how early and rare that is but damn.
Hey Frank! My rules for vinyl collecting: never go more than 125€ for the very rare records. Minimum vg for my used dj records and vg+ for albums and EP's. Sleeves for the dj records i don't much care about them tbh. And also i love just a good dj record bootleg, special remix or added (different) vocals on other songs. for those i'm a real crate digger. Also i prefer black records too.
Good rules.
Thanks Frank! I agree with VG+ as a minimum...otherwise I won't listen to it. I avoid colored vinyl, as I am concerned about higher noise floor. As I buy a fair number of "audiophile" releases, I have to raise my price limit...I guess I buy fewer but in my opinion higher quality (love Kevin Gray remasters).