The USAF has already given up NGAD in the short term. They should just let the Navy develop their F/A-XX and run with that. They will get a tougher jet and most of what they are looking for with well over half of their design requirements at almost no development cost.
They paused the NGAD as the FA-XX is featuring very similar systems. Also the USN is in more dire need for a more advanced aircraft. As the F-35 is more of a fighter bomber for the USN, but the USN don't have a F-22-type fighter.
@@johnn1250 The Navy is going to be replacing an F-14 outer air battle 'Fleet Air Defense' bird. I would imagine that it would be useful to the USAF. It sure will be one tough aircraft.
@@johnn1250 The USN's current fighter jets have a range issue. They need too much refueling. The new jet is supposed to have much better range, meaning more projection and more loiter time. The current limitations limit the effective range the supercarrier can be from the theater. Extend the range of the jets and the supercarrier will be effective much farther back. Meanwhile there are efforts underway to increase the range of the missiles on those jets. This extends the projection for the supercarriers even more. If this continues, we may not need so many carriers. Imagine if the jets had a turn-around range of 8000 miles and the missiles were effective at 2000 miles. We'll probably never get there, but how close can we come? That's the real question.
@@joey3291 no it happened in real life lol, “NGAD has come so far that the full-scale flight demonstrator has already flown in the physical world,” Will Roper, then the head of Air Force acquisitions, said at the time. Where the USAF has hidden its new stealth fighter demonstrator, the PLAAF has proudly showed off both of its own new demonstrators.
@@joey3291 there’s a shot of a truck somewhere in US base carrying a Delta-wing shaped aircraft on google maps, also US has keep other aircraft before like F-117 nighthawk or SR-71 hidden before it’s release.
I don't think it's really sunk in just how CHEAP the F-35 is per copy. It's an LO jet with Gen 5+ tech for barely more than an FA-18 costs!! That is just freaking CRAZY. It's HALF the price of even a Eurofighter. Hell, it's half the cost of an F-15 EX !! Even an EA-18G is $125-million. A block 70 F-16 is $63-million domestic and way more to customers. At this point, the only word to describe the unit cost per F-35 is CHEAP. The only reason it's so expensive per hour is how fragile LO coatings are.
I mean the only issue is like all US export aircraft in the USAF it's kinda nit worth it hince why the USAF stopped ordering then in favor of the F-15EX, the F-16EX and the air Combat drones... Like in USAF use they are kindsa useless now less then useless with the F-117 back in service... As the main use the USAF has for the F-345 right now is a single seat fromtline command and senor fustion aircraft pretty much a snmall single seat AWACs... As with the USAFs insane varoity of frames it's justterrible at all tghe jobs the rest of the USAF aircraft can do... But be a frontline AWACs which is a nhicne only it can fill right now and likely untilll the NGAD comes into full servie...
@@AvocadoAfficionado It isn't it's cheaper then the eropaions 5 gen non stealth aircraft and just a worse in evry but albite bearly stealth com[aired to the F-16EX and F-15EX which are just gods of air combat when you don't need a heavy bomber... although not stealthy at all... To be fair small price to pay for a far suporrior aircraft and the USAF agrees.
Been arguing this with the "F35 is too expensive" brigade for ages. 2024 per unit price F35A is ~$83mill. Best Euro is Gripen at ~$88mill. Although Gripen/Rafale is more Gen4.5 than 4. Lots 14-17 of F35A sold for a measly $70mill... def cheaper than many current build Gen4's. This is what economy of scale does, esp. considering 1000+ may be delivered but there's another 1500+ orders... so many Lockheed and its ancillaries are struggling to keep up. And any claims orders have been cancelled is BS - they have been delayed only due to software update reworking and replanning of new force integration doctrine with both F15EX and even the NGAD.
The NGAD is going to be produced. Development pauses are not uncommon to reevaluate the current requirements vs costs vs production time, etc. A pause doesn't mean they quit testing etc.
@@bryanhoppe1481 That was my understanding also. It appears that the Navy is still moving forward with their plans tho (the Navy really needs an aircraft with more range than the F-35 and with lower maintenance requirements / cost).
When considering cost first look at gen1 vs gen2 and so on. P-51 vs Say F104 or Super Saber vs Tom Cat vs F-15ex vs F22. It's on par in exponential cost increase as between a corvette vs say a Koeinigsegg or Bugatti when considering performance. So from $165M (F22) vs $300M to $350M (NGAD) per unit seems expected especially considering B2/B21 at +/- 2 BILLION and already considered as the first 6th gen aircraft.
Interesting comments about NGAD. I'm no expert, but with a stupendous cost of re-doing ICBMs, I heard the USAF is scaling back NGAD funding. Saying there's integration between F-35 and drones is fine, but I haven't heard about capable AI-powered drones, and especially I haven't heard of any with supersonic speed and range to match the F-35 as loyal wingmen. I can't imagine an opponent being fooled about subsonic drones, so their target priorities can easily choose between subsonic and supersonic targets ? Having a supersonic drone that can pull 12 Gs would certainly put a dent in the opponents air to air missiles targeting.
In 1964 the USA had a Mach 3.3 drone called the D21. China has a stealthy supersonic drone apparently. Also there are numerous supersonic drones used for targets . I dont think the F35 would be supersonic in a combat scenario usually? It has a limit of Mach 1.3 due to its stealth coating coming off at higher speeds, though there are new coatings in the near future. I like the high G drone idea! A drone wont black out and can pull G's for a long time.
NGAD and F-35 will have the classic High/Low ratio. A few high priced fighter with lotsof lower priced fighter. Just like the F-15/F16 combo, F--14/FA-18 combo, or F-22/F-35 combo etc
@ No, it was not terminated, it was ‘paused’ and needs to be slightly re-designed before being launched again since it was designed 10 years ago. Please read and comprehense stuff before commenting it was cancelled or anything, if anything the Navy still has the F/A-XX program which is expected to come earlier
Did you see Chinese 2 new sixth generation stealth fighter jets,both 5th its sixth which is successfully tested… Chinese have 2 sixth generation stealth fighters prototypes successfully tested ..
They don't have anything 6th gen nor 5th gen. The J-20 isn't stealthy its a 4.5 gen aircraft. What you saw was just a Tech demo with them experimenting with fighter designs. There was nothing 6th gen about it.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503Cope is the enemy of national security. We can pretend China is inferior but in real life arrogance will get us killed. China has gotten ahead of us with a working prototype. Like President Trump said about DeepSeek AI - this is a wake up call … Do you think hitting snooze is a good idea?
We have the F15EX too.😎 As you stated, the complimentary layering of all Air Assets functioning as one is the definition of Air Superiority. NGAD will move the needle insuring the US advantage.
I feel like despite it's many strengths, the F35 just has too many weaknesses to put all our eggs in that one basket. We need something newer and more advanced. And if the enemy were ever to find a weakness in the F35 and exploit it, we'd be screwed without something else in our back pocket. Keep developing the F35, but don't stop working on the next thing.
You don't need a 300 mil fighter jet when you're fighting people hiding in caves. They're pretty good when you want to fight people with other fighter jets. Different times.
Initially the order was placed for 750 Raptors, but then the Soviet Union went and fell apart. With no near-peer threats on the horizon in the 90's and early 2000's there was a big push by congress and the public to reduce military spending, and the order was slowly whittled down to just 178.
@@pyronuke4768 Yet 4 years after the Soviet Union collapsed, the JSF program started. Dollars into the trillions into the F-35 at this point. Safe to say, money wasn’t the problem, and having no near peer adversary wasn’t the problem.
@Triple87 the production line for the F-22 was disassembled. Why spend all that money on a 30 year old design, when you can use the same amount of money to build a new aircraft with the lessons learned from the past 30 years and with modern technology.
The Air Force should be given $100 Billion to purchase 400 airframes at $250 million per frame. This will include spare parts and customized tools and software/ hardware.
I think they should work on remotely piloted drone technology thats stealthy and capable of long range and air refueling and mach 4 speed and still has the ability to control loyal wingman drones. I also think you should use the Vertical takeoff ability of the f35. You can have smaller stealthy carriers that have laser and hypersonic missile technology and a skeleton crew to re-arm the planes and drones. This keeps the pilots safe and allows for a smaller more agile stealth attack force. Picture a carrier that can hold 20 Vertical takeoff remotely piloted drones coupled with 80 loyal wingmen drones. This one ship could take out all the enemies air defenses and high value targets without putting 20billion dollars worth of equipment and 5000 lives in jeopardy.
The F-35 definitely needs more range, but also to put things into perspective - an F-35 carries as much fuel as an F-16 with 2 external tanks or about an F/A-18 with 2-3 external tanks.
Perhaps we should consider two versions of the NGAD. A two-seat air superiority / SEAD / drone herder. Another single-seat / smaller and cheaper drone.
The correct question is not whether or not we can afford enough to make a difference - even 1 could make a real difference. The question is, can we afford enough of them to reach the economies of scale for production that make it higher impact per dollar than the F35?
The USAF has little idea what needs to go into a NGAD fighter. Adaptive cycle turbofan engines and better stealth obviously. But lasers? Who knows? The Block 4 F-35 computer upgrade in the F-35 will easily allow its pilot to control a half dozen drones, a task that was confirmed in simulations as viable in tests of F-22 pilots. So the USAF is not in any rush to make decisions right now.
The F22 was designed to replace the F15 and the F16. The F35 was designed to replace the F15 F16 F18 and A10. Have you seen this replacement to take place? Ucraine war and Middle East conflicts shows that cheap drones can do the job and the artillery on steroids like the AtackMS can replace all the mentioned expensive superstelth fighters. The F15 and F16 are enough and perfect!
The F35 vs NGAD isn't really a debate. 35 seems more of a network node not a penetrative asset. The adaptive stealth coupled with TBCC engines and incorporated Ai with BVR (beyond visual range +/- 200 miles)weaponry, in my mind ends any possible debate. The goal is a aircraft for the next 50 years and possible upper atmospheric incursion. R&D ain't cheap if you want something that has a usable life like the F15 of over 50 years and still be relevant.
Team F-35 all the way. It's the most al-around capable fighter in the world, and debateably top dog in air superiority with only the F-15EX really challenging it right now, but that's not a stealth platform. The F-22 will be top dog once again for air superiority after its upgrades, giving us a robust and powerful lineup. The F-35 is about $80m/ea for the A and about $100-$110m/ea for the B, C, and I variants which is an incredible value and allows us to field more jets at lower cost. NGAD is going to be a boondoggle that gets cut way short if its really $300m/aircraft.
Between the f-35 and the b21 there's little justification for the expense of the ngad. I want to see some new cool fighter as much as anyone but realistically using a mix of already developed platforms that are ahead of or equal to China makes the most real world sense. Couple these with drones and the longshot concept or any new ideas for non crewed vehicles and you have at least the next decade covered. Who even knows what warfare will look like in 15-20 years once the current AI, drone, and other advanced tech matures will look like. TLDR the nevay's version of ngad MIGHT have a justification but the air force already has the bases of ngad without the crazy cost of a shiny new plane.
The F35 wasn't designed to be an air superiority fighter and as a multi-role fighter, a lot of compromises were made. So, it can do many things well but isn't going to be a master of any of them. The F22 and the NGAD have air superiority specifically in mind. So, in that arena, the F35 doesn't compare.
→ wormyboot If you go back to the beginning of the X-35 program it is OVER 30 YEARS OLD. Think about that! Fortunately / unfortunately it has been an evolving program. By the time the engine gets fixed it will be 35 years old.
Not on the “Fat Amy - Jack of all Trades” team. F-35 is a great Harrier replacement but has too many compromises in other areas. Unfortunately it is probably the best “compromise” the US will have for a very longtime, so “love the one you’re with” and overlook the compromises.
In the future, the advancements in smart AI missle technology mite surpass the defensive countermeasures of all fighter jets. A fighter jet is only as deadly as its weapons systems and missles.
Bro, NGAD isn't even out yet, nobody knows what the specs are, or the capabilities are, payload capacity, combat radius, RCS and operating altitude ceiling.
What's the point of NGAD or F/A-XX if F-35 Block IV can already challenge F-22 for air superiority? Moreso with ACE like GE's XA100 or P&W's XA101 giving F-35C 30% more range so that aircraft carriers can operate safely outside the reach of PLA rocket force without needing for aerial refueling.
F-35 is only getting an engine “core upgrade” not one of the new, higher efficiency engines. This sorta makes sense as the new engines would not work for the F-35 B MODEL. Therefore the F-35 range will stay an issue but the Navy is pushing hard on the drone tanker to help with this issue.
→ John I agree, the A & C models could really benefit from an engine upgrade for a number of very important reasons. The existing problems with the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine are not the fault of a bad design but rather that the “original design requirements” were significantly too low to fulfill the final real world needs due to a lot of unforeseen demand requirements. The upshot of this is that the engine core has to be pushed to higher temperature levels than originally planned for. This has significantly increased the maintenance and its associated cost. Since this is a problem with all the models (and probably more with the B model) a solution was needed for all of them. So yet another compromise was made to just upgrade the engine core on all the models. In a perfect world it would be better to have the new engine in the A & C models but where does the funding come from? Even better would be a new C model that is larger so that it can carry more fuel & the new engine to get that needed extra range for the China mission. But since the Navy has been continuing on with their 6th generation aircraft, that might suggest that their thoughts about the F-35 C being fully capable for the mission are not all that positive. It is what they got “stuck” with but is it what they wanted ‽ The F-35 B is a great Harrier replacement that we never would have gotten without the A & C models providing the majority of the funding. Fortunately the F-35 is a “Perfectly Cromulent” compromise that gave us the F-35 B and is better than the competition for now. Robert Strange McNamara would be proud (in reference to his attempt to force a single aircraft type on all the US military branches that ended in a massive failure).
For the record, the US Navy paid over $300 million a copy inflation-adjusted for the f-14. You want the best, you pay for the best. The problem isn't that we can't afford it or it cost too much it's that Congress has its priorities in the wrong place.
the F-35 has now quite a cheap cost per unit. Personally I feel the F-35 will be similar to the F-16. While the NGAD will be something more like the F-15. I just wonder what the Navy will do because I feel like the F-35 cannot do everything the navy needs to replace the F-18s.
Ok, i know im breaking the cardinal rule and commenting at 8 seconds, but, I thought that the Air Force had sent the NGAD back to the drawing board to be realigned with their new priorities and to cut costs? The video starts out like they have still got the program green lit. I hope im wrong, and would be happy to be told so.
Gotta go with NGAD. Other countries are developing 6th Gen fighters which will easily out pace the F35 eventually. We could find ourselves in another catch up generation that could last for years.
those 6th gen fighters you talk about are going to cost +200mil each, an no country except usa will be making enough to fill any requirement, which is why many countries, including the ones making 6th gen stuff are buying f35. And these non usa countries cant afford to make jets as good as usa so they wont be better than f35 anyway
Yep don't want to end up like the navy not building a new interceptor because of politics but instead using a mid range Aircraft to try and do everything. Navy regrets that now because those F-18's can't go the distance like the F-14 could.
We have the FAXX which is already been designed and in use why would we spend more money on the N gad makes no sense. Just upgrade the existing airplanes fighters we have now and in the future when we have more technology build and upgraded version of the NGAD. F we can build up our drone program to compliment our fighters we can overwhelm our adversaries and dominate the skies.
I feel the need to point out that the $300 million/jet thing is just a number being taken from statements by AF generals on how much the jet *might/could* cost. Not that it WILL cost that much. And considering the implementation of digital twin technology drastically decreasing development and prototyping costs/time, I really do think 300 per is on the high end. if I had to guess I'd probably put it in the 150-200 range. Maybe up to 250.
Why taking risk in putzing too much new stuff into NGAD - i would take the f35 and pump it up (two engines, more range). Same concept, more speed, range and weaponsload - less risk and cheaper.
I find it ironic that a few years ago the sentiment was "just keep upgrading and building more F-16's/A-10's; no need for another expensive fighter program." Just goes to show how some things never change.
@pyronuke4768 Stealth required a fundamental change in airframe design, hence the need for 5th gen. But with 6th gen, the advancements need to be more in other tech areas that won't be mature for a very long time. So moving on from 5th gen is going to take alot longer than most expect, imo.
If we don't get atleast 300 of them, then it will be a failure. Dump the whole unmanned concept. Too expensive and not mature enough yet. Or just make it to where it can be added on later with their whole modularity concept. Resist the urge to sell out for money and going with Pratt & Whitney. Go for the new proven GE XA101. GE is more innovative (last 3-4 decades,) cheaper, more reliable, more powerful, more fuel efficient. And it has been built and sitting collecting dust since the early 2000's. Make some upgrades with better material, design, etc.. NGAD needs to double the range and that GE engine will help. Roll with the new gallium-nitride for EW & radar. If you wanted to get crazy, there is always rotation detonation, electric jet pulse jet, etc... that should be used for new weapons and eventually for the 7th-Gen propulsion. Lastly, just go with Northrup Grunman. They delivered the B-21 on time and under budget. Reward that kind of behavior. Lockhead & Boeing will just make the cost skyrocket and the latter will do that and probably fall apart. Oh and utilize smaller defense contractors like Anduril like they did with the CCA project
This is a really silly analysis. The advantage the F35 has over a fighter that hasn’t been built yet is that it exists, while the other one doesn’t? Are you kidding? You’re the one who decided to compare a system that wasn’t built yet to one that’s been deployed worldwide. You couldn’t have, I dunno, compared their actual capabilities?
@VectorGhost the F-4, A-7, are proof that you calling me stupid, makes you stupid. The F-35C got expensive because its an air force jet that is redesigned for carrier use. Thats a lot more difficult than converting a Naval aircraft into a land based aircraft which is what the F-4E and A-7D were and were very successful. Other successful aircraft originally built for Naval service but were successful in other Air Forces include, The F/A-18, F-14, and A-4. Go back to the kiddie table, leave this discussion to adults.
Do you even know what the F/A-XX is? Its the navy's verson of 6th gen. NGAD is the Air Force version of 6th Gen. Different Aircrafts for different missions and different environments. What works for the Navy will not work for the Air Force and vice versa. You remind me of that kid that never served in the Military but wishes he could and pretends he knows a thing or two when he really knows nothing.
@@madkabal He's right your idea is stupid and you just can't see that it is. Those planes you mentioned were specifically tailered for the Navy's mission as well as landing on Aircraft carriers. The Air Forces missions needs are different and they also don't need to take off and land on an Air craft Carrier. You don't use a plane designed for something else and try to force it to do something it isn't meant for. It's a good thing your not the one making decisions.
@michaelmichaelagnew8503 ok I hate to talk to you like you aren't grasping a simple concept. But I must since you think you are so smart. What branch was F-4 designed for? The Navy. What branch was the A-7 designed for? The Navy. Whst branch flew then both, abd for longer than the navy in larger the numbers? The Air Force. "Muh different missions" Fleet Defense abd Air Superiority are "two different missions" THAT DO THE EXACT SAME THING shooting down enemy aircraft! The F-4 it is then! "Carrier Strike Mission" and "Ground Interdiction" two "muh different missions" that DO EXACT SAME THING. Blowing up tactical ground targets! The A-7 it is then! My country's military budget is approaching 1 TRILLION DOLLARS! Enough is enough! I'm not go to entertain your stupid semantics game anymore! We have to start making cuts now! The easiest way to do that is the streamline production and limit needless variety for the sake of stupid semantics!! If a platform can do a mission effectively then that's what we need to go with! Navy F/A-XX for both branchs it is! The USAF is already scratching the heads in how to keep the B-21 from drowning. Enough with this stupid NONESENSE.
Isn't it funny how even when you see the blatant use of click bait, you still click. It's like looking awH from a terrible accident. Just not possible.
→ teddy How is that going to be the case? If you go back to the beginning of the X-35 program it is OVER 30 YEARS OLD. Think about that! Fortunately / unfortunately it has been an evolving program. By the time the engine gets fixed it will be 35 years old. So it magically becomes a 6th generation. The radar cross section is too large to be considered a 6th generation aircraft. The engine is too inefficient / low performance to be considered a 6th generation aircraft. Probably a 6th generation aircraft will need larger internal ordnance storage. Probably most of the software & avionics will be good enough to be the starting point for further development for a true 6th generation aircraft but the airframe is very much compromised due to the lift-fan volume requirements.
$300M a copy is chicken feed to Congress their martini bill runs that much at lunch. Jokes aside the NGAT is one wicked badass airplane if it can live up to the hype. Maybe Tom Cruise will take me for a ride in his if I join Scientology..
Not a single idea of what the NGAD even looks like, much less what its capabilities are....and making a comparison?
What is this silliness???
@michaelpayne9712 Looks like you have made one of the best comments.
@@michaelpayne9712 yeah this is a joke lol
It's what we in the biz call click bait my fren.
I don't think so!
His speculation is more interesting that anything you've done lately.
The USAF has already given up NGAD in the short term. They should just let the Navy develop their F/A-XX and run with that. They will get a tougher jet and most of what they are looking for with well over half of their design requirements at almost no development cost.
They probably will adapt it to fit most of what they are looking for once it's revealed
That would be nice. It's a lot easier to convert a Navy aircraft meant for Carrier duty to Air Force usage.
They paused the NGAD as the FA-XX is featuring very similar systems. Also the USN is in more dire need for a more advanced aircraft. As the F-35 is more of a fighter bomber for the USN, but the USN don't have a F-22-type fighter.
@@johnn1250 The Navy is going to be replacing an F-14 outer air battle 'Fleet Air Defense' bird. I would imagine that it would be useful to the USAF. It sure will be one tough aircraft.
@@johnn1250 The USN's current fighter jets have a range issue. They need too much refueling. The new jet is supposed to have much better range, meaning more projection and more loiter time.
The current limitations limit the effective range the supercarrier can be from the theater. Extend the range of the jets and the supercarrier will be effective much farther back.
Meanwhile there are efforts underway to increase the range of the missiles on those jets. This extends the projection for the supercarriers even more.
If this continues, we may not need so many carriers. Imagine if the jets had a turn-around range of 8000 miles and the missiles were effective at 2000 miles. We'll probably never get there, but how close can we come? That's the real question.
This PPT is No.1 in the World. None can compete with it. wow wow wow.
China:hey,NGAD. you have not enough time
US already reportedly flew 3 prototypes 4 years ago lol.
@TeoDP7 perhaps in their simulation software...or dreams
@@joey3291 no it happened in real life lol, “NGAD has come so far that the full-scale flight demonstrator has already flown in the physical world,” Will Roper, then the head of Air Force acquisitions, said at the time. Where the USAF has hidden its new stealth fighter demonstrator, the PLAAF has proudly showed off both of its own new demonstrators.
@TeoDP7 lol, where is your proof? no photo no video, no anything
@@joey3291 there’s a shot of a truck somewhere in US base carrying a Delta-wing shaped aircraft on google maps, also US has keep other aircraft before like F-117 nighthawk or SR-71 hidden before it’s release.
I don't think it's really sunk in just how CHEAP the F-35 is per copy.
It's an LO jet with Gen 5+ tech for barely more than an FA-18 costs!!
That is just freaking CRAZY. It's HALF the price of even a Eurofighter.
Hell, it's half the cost of an F-15 EX !! Even an EA-18G is $125-million.
A block 70 F-16 is $63-million domestic and way more to customers.
At this point, the only word to describe the unit cost per F-35 is CHEAP.
The only reason it's so expensive per hour is how fragile LO coatings are.
Only Chinese spies think it's a good idea to cancel f35 when it's cheaper than a 4th gen. 🤣
I mean the only issue is like all US export aircraft in the USAF it's kinda nit worth it hince why the USAF stopped ordering then in favor of the F-15EX, the F-16EX and the air Combat drones... Like in USAF use they are kindsa useless now less then useless with the F-117 back in service... As the main use the USAF has for the F-345 right now is a single seat fromtline command and senor fustion aircraft pretty much a snmall single seat AWACs... As with the USAFs insane varoity of frames it's justterrible at all tghe jobs the rest of the USAF aircraft can do... But be a frontline AWACs which is a nhicne only it can fill right now and likely untilll the NGAD comes into full servie...
@@AvocadoAfficionado It isn't it's cheaper then the eropaions 5 gen non stealth aircraft and just a worse in evry but albite bearly stealth com[aired to the F-16EX and F-15EX which are just gods of air combat when you don't need a heavy bomber... although not stealthy at all... To be fair small price to pay for a far suporrior aircraft and the USAF agrees.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough the single unit cost is quite literally cheaper than most 4th gen aircraft. Found the Chinese spy. 😂
Been arguing this with the "F35 is too expensive" brigade for ages. 2024 per unit price F35A is ~$83mill. Best Euro is Gripen at ~$88mill. Although Gripen/Rafale is more Gen4.5 than 4.
Lots 14-17 of F35A sold for a measly $70mill... def cheaper than many current build Gen4's.
This is what economy of scale does, esp. considering 1000+ may be delivered but there's another 1500+ orders... so many Lockheed and its ancillaries are struggling to keep up.
And any claims orders have been cancelled is BS - they have been delayed only due to software update reworking and replanning of new force integration doctrine with both F15EX and even the NGAD.
It looks like something I had as a toy when I was a kid. Anyone else remember those pump launching foam toys in the 80s?
I thought the Air Force NGAD program has been paused....
The NGAD is going to be produced. Development pauses are not uncommon to reevaluate the current requirements vs costs vs production time, etc.
A pause doesn't mean they quit testing etc.
@@bryanhoppe1481 hopefully they get back on track ASAP.
Yes weren't they considering whether it needs to be a drone?
@@s3p4kner _"optionally manned"_ was baked in the cake...
@@bryanhoppe1481
That was my understanding also. It appears that the Navy is still moving forward with their plans tho (the Navy really needs an aircraft with more range than the F-35 and with lower maintenance requirements / cost).
Well the NGAD is not taking the F-35's spot it is taking the F-22's spot
Great video Tog
There needs to be a meeting of the minds and joint design effort between NGAD & FA/XX to bring costs down and shared between military branches.
When considering cost first look at gen1 vs gen2 and so on. P-51 vs Say F104 or Super Saber vs Tom Cat vs F-15ex vs F22. It's on par in exponential cost increase as between a corvette vs say a Koeinigsegg or Bugatti when considering performance. So from $165M (F22) vs $300M to $350M (NGAD) per unit seems expected especially considering B2/B21 at +/- 2 BILLION and already considered as the first 6th gen aircraft.
The NGAD seems to have taken design cues from the YF-23 Black Widow, which was too advanced a design at the time to win.
Interesting comments about NGAD. I'm no expert, but with a stupendous cost of re-doing ICBMs, I heard the USAF is scaling back NGAD funding. Saying there's integration between F-35 and drones is fine, but I haven't heard about capable AI-powered drones, and especially I haven't heard of any with supersonic speed and range to match the F-35 as loyal wingmen. I can't imagine an opponent being fooled about subsonic drones, so their target priorities can easily choose between subsonic and supersonic targets ? Having a supersonic drone that can pull 12 Gs would certainly put a dent in the opponents air to air missiles targeting.
In 1964 the USA had a Mach 3.3 drone called the D21. China has a stealthy supersonic drone apparently. Also there are numerous supersonic drones used for targets . I dont think the F35 would be supersonic in a combat scenario usually? It has a limit of Mach 1.3 due to its stealth coating coming off at higher speeds, though there are new coatings in the near future. I like the high G drone idea! A drone wont black out and can pull G's for a long time.
@@watcher63034 So what are the current supersonic drones ?
NGAD and F-35 will have the classic High/Low ratio. A few high priced fighter with lotsof lower priced fighter. Just like the F-15/F16 combo, F--14/FA-18 combo, or F-22/F-35 combo etc
China: I'm here, where is your NGAD?
US already reportedly flew 3 prototypes 4 years ago lol.
@TeoDP7 lol, in their simulation software...
@TeoDP7 I think NGAD has already been terminated in earlier this year
@ No, it was not terminated, it was ‘paused’ and needs to be slightly re-designed before being launched again since it was designed 10 years ago. Please read and comprehense stuff before commenting it was cancelled or anything, if anything the Navy still has the F/A-XX program which is expected to come earlier
@@lee123-it4si read my new comment
Did you see Chinese 2 new sixth generation stealth fighter jets,both 5th its sixth which is successfully tested… Chinese have 2 sixth generation stealth fighters prototypes successfully tested ..
They don't have anything 6th gen nor 5th gen. The J-20 isn't stealthy its a 4.5 gen aircraft. What you saw was just a Tech demo with them experimenting with fighter designs. There was nothing 6th gen about it.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503Cope is the enemy of national security.
We can pretend China is inferior but in real life arrogance will get us killed.
China has gotten ahead of us with a working prototype. Like President Trump said about DeepSeek AI - this is a wake up call …
Do you think hitting snooze is a good idea?
- Video title : F35 vs NGAD
- Video content: NGAD probably will have, maybe will do
While NGAD's still a PPT , China's 6th fighter flying today
Because they already have the more expensive F35.
@@platin2148
more expensive yet less capable
F35 is trash
US already reportedly flew 3 prototypes 4 years ago lol.
@@vcqrsfdwc1987No it’s not lol, look at Israel
@ And when the real think
One is "What is" the other is "What if"
We have the F15EX too.😎
As you stated, the complimentary layering of all Air Assets functioning as one is the definition of Air Superiority. NGAD will move the needle insuring the US advantage.
It looks a bit like the mid 80s Revel model kit "F-19 Stealth Fighter".
China just tested their NGAD 😃😃😃
Next level period!
I’m on team both. 🇺🇸
Talking about something that doesn't exist yet. Versus an F35? Are you alright?
I feel like despite it's many strengths, the F35 just has too many weaknesses to put all our eggs in that one basket. We need something newer and more advanced. And if the enemy were ever to find a weakness in the F35 and exploit it, we'd be screwed without something else in our back pocket. Keep developing the F35, but don't stop working on the next thing.
It’s crazy to me that they couldn’t afford more F-22’s, but they’ll pay 300 million per NGAD. 😂
You don't need a 300 mil fighter jet when you're fighting people hiding in caves. They're pretty good when you want to fight people with other fighter jets.
Different times.
Initially the order was placed for 750 Raptors, but then the Soviet Union went and fell apart. With no near-peer threats on the horizon in the 90's and early 2000's there was a big push by congress and the public to reduce military spending, and the order was slowly whittled down to just 178.
@@pyronuke4768 Yet 4 years after the Soviet Union collapsed, the JSF program started. Dollars into the trillions into the F-35 at this point. Safe to say, money wasn’t the problem, and having no near peer adversary wasn’t the problem.
@@AvocadoAfficionadoten why you made it
@Triple87 the production line for the F-22 was disassembled. Why spend all that money on a 30 year old design, when you can use the same amount of money to build a new aircraft with the lessons learned from the past 30 years and with modern technology.
yo ,USA check today's news we make your ppt come ture.
The Air Force should be given $100 Billion to purchase 400 airframes at $250 million per frame. This will include spare parts and customized tools and software/ hardware.
US military "Mom, can we have NGAD?"
Mom "We have NGAD at home"
NGAD at home: B21 and F35 Block 4
US military "Oh, yeah."
US military: throws tantrum
Mom: 1. 2. Don’t make me get to 3.
Is end，China NO1，we have true，you have only PPT😂😂😂
I think they should work on remotely piloted drone technology thats stealthy and capable of long range and air refueling and mach 4 speed and still has the ability to control loyal wingman drones.
I also think you should use the Vertical takeoff ability of the f35.
You can have smaller stealthy carriers that have laser and hypersonic missile technology and a skeleton crew to re-arm the planes and drones.
This keeps the pilots safe and allows for a smaller more agile stealth attack force.
Picture a carrier that can hold 20 Vertical takeoff remotely piloted drones coupled with 80 loyal wingmen drones.
This one ship could take out all the enemies air defenses and high value targets without putting 20billion dollars worth of equipment and 5000 lives in jeopardy.
I'm on team YF-23.
Fat Amy is not suited for long-distance missions, unfortunately.
The F-35 definitely needs more range, but also to put things into perspective - an F-35 carries as much fuel as an F-16 with 2 external tanks or about an F/A-18 with 2-3 external tanks.
Perhaps we should consider two versions of the NGAD.
A two-seat air superiority / SEAD / drone herder.
Another single-seat / smaller and cheaper drone.
Restart the Raptor line.
The correct question is not whether or not we can afford enough to make a difference - even 1 could make a real difference.
The question is, can we afford enough of them to reach the economies of scale for production that make it higher impact per dollar than the F35?
看完中国的真机再来看美国的CG
押韵了~
Do you watch CG freedom in china?
🤣🤣🤣
What's the bet China hacked the American design and made a shitty rip-off quicker?
@@drganknstein 去问问来过中国的不就知道了，你是被你们的西方媒体洗脑了吧。连夜晚都不敢随意出门的国家，也好意思谈自由。
The USAF has little idea what needs to go into a NGAD fighter. Adaptive cycle turbofan engines and better stealth obviously. But lasers? Who knows? The Block 4 F-35 computer upgrade in the F-35 will easily allow its pilot to control a half dozen drones, a task that was confirmed in simulations as viable in tests of F-22 pilots. So the USAF is not in any rush to make decisions right now.
Sorry mate the ngad is on hold due to the cost, the navy fxx is still in development
NGAD vs Blackbird...
NGAD. Push the limits.
no limit to push now, it has been pushed by the Chinese 6th gen fighter jets, yes, two of them...
@@joey3291 US already reportedly flew 3 prototypes 4 years ago lol.
reportedly lol
@TeoDP7why are you lying every Comment?
I wasn't even team f-35 back in it's Hay Day at Edwards Air Force Base. We were team jabberjaw.
The F22 was designed to replace the F15 and the F16.
The F35 was designed to replace the F15 F16 F18 and A10. Have you seen this replacement to take place?
Ucraine war and Middle East conflicts shows that cheap drones can do the job and the artillery on steroids like the AtackMS can replace all the mentioned expensive superstelth fighters.
The F15 and F16 are enough and perfect!
Hallucinating best in Hollywood
The F35 vs NGAD isn't really a debate. 35 seems more of a network node not a penetrative asset. The adaptive stealth coupled with TBCC engines and incorporated Ai with BVR (beyond visual range +/- 200 miles)weaponry, in my mind ends any possible debate. The goal is a aircraft for the next 50 years and possible upper atmospheric incursion. R&D ain't cheap if you want something that has a usable life like the F15 of over 50 years and still be relevant.
Team F-35 all the way. It's the most al-around capable fighter in the world, and debateably top dog in air superiority with only the F-15EX really challenging it right now, but that's not a stealth platform. The F-22 will be top dog once again for air superiority after its upgrades, giving us a robust and powerful lineup. The F-35 is about $80m/ea for the A and about $100-$110m/ea for the B, C, and I variants which is an incredible value and allows us to field more jets at lower cost. NGAD is going to be a boondoggle that gets cut way short if its really $300m/aircraft.
中国是真的有NGAD😂
i am waiting NGAD added to Modern Warships
Between the f-35 and the b21 there's little justification for the expense of the ngad. I want to see some new cool fighter as much as anyone but realistically using a mix of already developed platforms that are ahead of or equal to China makes the most real world sense. Couple these with drones and the longshot concept or any new ideas for non crewed vehicles and you have at least the next decade covered. Who even knows what warfare will look like in 15-20 years once the current AI, drone, and other advanced tech matures will look like. TLDR the nevay's version of ngad MIGHT have a justification but the air force already has the bases of ngad without the crazy cost of a shiny new plane.
1,000 NGADs only costs 300b. Trillions spent annually by the military.
The F35 wasn't designed to be an air superiority fighter and as a multi-role fighter, a lot of compromises were made. So, it can do many things well but isn't going to be a master of any of them. The F22 and the NGAD have air superiority specifically in mind. So, in that arena, the F35 doesn't compare.
I keep forgetting the F-35 is over 20 years old.
IKR!? I just saw my first one in person last summer. Seems to me they've only been in service 2 or 3 years.
→ wormyboot
If you go back to the beginning of the X-35 program it is OVER 30 YEARS OLD. Think about that! Fortunately / unfortunately it has been an evolving program. By the time the engine gets fixed it will be 35 years old.
The JSF competition kicked off in ‘93, I think.
Next, make the F-35 into AI autonomous. Icrease the range and advance it's munitions.
Not on the “Fat Amy - Jack of all Trades” team. F-35 is a great Harrier replacement but has too many compromises in other areas. Unfortunately it is probably the best “compromise” the US will have for a very longtime, so “love the one you’re with” and overlook the compromises.
The F35 needs the F15 to bring real firepower
In the future, the advancements in smart AI missle technology mite surpass the defensive countermeasures of all fighter jets.
A fighter jet is only as deadly as its weapons systems and missles.
The Superduper Best NGAD:
The KC/RQ/E/F/A/B-21
Definitely TEAM F-35&F-15EX! ….. PLUS CCAs&LongShotUAVs……. LOTS OF CCAs and LongShors!
I couldn’t help myself I didn’t come here to watch this video. How the hell would you know. The NGAD has not even been shown….
boeing won the contract?
Bro, NGAD isn't even out yet, nobody knows what the specs are, or the capabilities are, payload capacity, combat radius, RCS and operating altitude ceiling.
NGAD is better, but it is still a PPT, and the three concept prototypes it claims to have flown are not real prototypes for bidding at all.
What's the point of NGAD or F/A-XX if F-35 Block IV can already challenge F-22 for air superiority? Moreso with ACE like GE's XA100 or P&W's XA101 giving F-35C 30% more range so that aircraft carriers can operate safely outside the reach of PLA rocket force without needing for aerial refueling.
F-35 is only getting an engine “core upgrade” not one of the new, higher efficiency engines. This sorta makes sense as the new engines would not work for the F-35 B MODEL. Therefore the F-35 range will stay an issue but the Navy is pushing hard on the drone tanker to help with this issue.
The USA wants an overwhelming match to anyone. Just like how the f22 was to 4th gen this is intended to dominate up and coming 5th gen
@@Mentaculus42 ACE is the 2nd upgrade. But considering USAF is rethinking NGAD, why not just F-35 with ACE is my opinion to save costs.
→ John
I agree, the A & C models could really benefit from an engine upgrade for a number of very important reasons. The existing problems with the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine are not the fault of a bad design but rather that the “original design requirements” were significantly too low to fulfill the final real world needs due to a lot of unforeseen demand requirements. The upshot of this is that the engine core has to be pushed to higher temperature levels than originally planned for. This has significantly increased the maintenance and its associated cost.
Since this is a problem with all the models (and probably more with the B model) a solution was needed for all of them. So yet another compromise was made to just upgrade the engine core on all the models.
In a perfect world it would be better to have the new engine in the A & C models but where does the funding come from? Even better would be a new C model that is larger so that it can carry more fuel & the new engine to get that needed extra range for the China mission. But since the Navy has been continuing on with their 6th generation aircraft, that might suggest that their thoughts about the F-35 C being fully capable for the mission are not all that positive. It is what they got “stuck” with but is it what they wanted ‽
The F-35 B is a great Harrier replacement that we never would have gotten without the A & C models providing the majority of the funding. Fortunately the F-35 is a “Perfectly Cromulent” compromise that gave us the F-35 B and is better than the competition for now. Robert Strange McNamara would be proud (in reference to his attempt to force a single aircraft type on all the US military branches that ended in a massive failure).
H
They also said the F35 was going to easily be upgraded…not so much? The last (most recent upgrade) appears hard to implement?
For the record, the US Navy paid over $300 million a copy inflation-adjusted for the f-14. You want the best, you pay for the best. The problem isn't that we can't afford it or it cost too much it's that Congress has its priorities in the wrong place.
the F-35 has now quite a cheap cost per unit. Personally I feel the F-35 will be similar to the F-16. While the NGAD will be something more like the F-15. I just wonder what the Navy will do because I feel like the F-35 cannot do everything the navy needs to replace the F-18s.
It should be space worthy.
What if I told you that the NGAD doesn’t exist & may never will.
Ok, i know im breaking the cardinal rule and commenting at 8 seconds, but, I thought that the Air Force had sent the NGAD back to the drawing board to be realigned with their new priorities and to cut costs? The video starts out like they have still got the program green lit. I hope im wrong, and would be happy to be told so.
NGAD so stealth no one has ever seen it.
Gotta go with NGAD. Other countries are developing 6th Gen fighters which will easily out pace the F35 eventually. We could find ourselves in another catch up generation that could last for years.
Oh please nobody is even near F-35
those 6th gen fighters you talk about are going to cost +200mil each, an no country except usa will be making enough to fill any requirement, which is why many countries, including the ones making 6th gen stuff are buying f35.
And these non usa countries cant afford to make jets as good as usa so they wont be better than f35 anyway
Yep don't want to end up like the navy not building a new interceptor because of politics but instead using a mid range Aircraft to try and do everything. Navy regrets that now because those F-18's can't go the distance like the F-14 could.
The F35 is the better fighter because it exists.
But the F35 is not a dog fighter, even a F16 can knock it out of the sky.
The answer is easy: not we can not afford it! At 300 million a piece ???
I guess you haven't heard, the NGAD program is suspended and under fiscal review.
It’s cooked
It doesn’t have vertical stabilizers
Both beautiful…..
We have the FAXX which is already been designed and in use why would we spend more money on the N gad makes no sense. Just upgrade the existing airplanes fighters we have now and in the future when we have more technology build and upgraded version of the NGAD. F we can build up our drone program to compliment our fighters we can overwhelm our adversaries and dominate the skies.
It would cost the deaths of an entire country of people to gain one jet
The Air Force put NG on hold it’s the navy
Um ? What are you talking aboot ? Why didn't you title the video - Which is best - A horse carriage or a intergalactic space craft ?
I feel the need to point out that the $300 million/jet thing is just a number being taken from statements by AF generals on how much the jet *might/could* cost. Not that it WILL cost that much. And considering the implementation of digital twin technology drastically decreasing development and prototyping costs/time, I really do think 300 per is on the high end. if I had to guess I'd probably put it in the 150-200 range. Maybe up to 250.
Don't forget the more you build or are going to build the cheaper it gets. The less you build the more expensive it gets.
Why taking risk in putzing too much new stuff into NGAD - i would take the f35 and pump it up (two engines, more range).
Same concept, more speed, range and weaponsload - less risk and cheaper.
35 + 15EX= FIND OUT. MULTIPLY BY 22=NEVER SCARED. simple math
Just keep upgrading and building more F-35’s. No need for another expensive manned fighter program.
I find it ironic that a few years ago the sentiment was "just keep upgrading and building more F-16's/A-10's; no need for another expensive fighter program." Just goes to show how some things never change.
@pyronuke4768 Stealth required a fundamental change in airframe design, hence the need for 5th gen. But with 6th gen, the advancements need to be more in other tech areas that won't be mature for a very long time. So moving on from 5th gen is going to take alot longer than most expect, imo.
@@gtdcoder I was referring more to how the public (or rather the media) will always try to find something to complain about.
Yes. F-35 Block IV can already challenge F-22 for air superiority.
Drones...just drones.
Both, with as many variable type drone jets/prop driven as possible. Or, China will easily overrun with numbers.
When you said, "to be able to handle adversaries like Chinas J20 and Russias SU 25", you surely must have giggled?
The F 35 wins, based just on the fact that is operational, while the other probably is still non existing😂
Has it been combat tested?
Modular... Yeah, like Windows 10 is the last version of Windows.
If we don't get atleast 300 of them, then it will be a failure. Dump the whole unmanned concept. Too expensive and not mature enough yet. Or just make it to where it can be added on later with their whole modularity concept. Resist the urge to sell out for money and going with Pratt & Whitney. Go for the new proven GE XA101. GE is more innovative (last 3-4 decades,) cheaper, more reliable, more powerful, more fuel efficient. And it has been built and sitting collecting dust since the early 2000's. Make some upgrades with better material, design, etc.. NGAD needs to double the range and that GE engine will help. Roll with the new gallium-nitride for EW & radar. If you wanted to get crazy, there is always rotation detonation, electric jet pulse jet, etc... that should be used for new weapons and eventually for the 7th-Gen propulsion. Lastly, just go with Northrup Grunman. They delivered the B-21 on time and under budget. Reward that kind of behavior. Lockhead & Boeing will just make the cost skyrocket and the latter will do that and probably fall apart. Oh and utilize smaller defense contractors like Anduril like they did with the CCA project
F22C gib
This is a really silly analysis. The advantage the F35 has over a fighter that hasn’t been built yet is that it exists, while the other one doesn’t? Are you kidding? You’re the one who decided to compare a system that wasn’t built yet to one that’s been deployed worldwide. You couldn’t have, I dunno, compared their actual capabilities?
If its true that the F/A-XX is gaining traction while offering similar capabilities, then the USAF needs to cancel the NGAD and pursue the F/AXX
lol this is the stupidest idea. THis why the F-35 program got expensive and theyre ment for 2 differant rolls.
@VectorGhost the F-4, A-7, are proof that you calling me stupid, makes you stupid. The F-35C got expensive because its an air force jet that is redesigned for carrier use. Thats a lot more difficult than converting a Naval aircraft into a land based aircraft which is what the F-4E and A-7D were and were very successful. Other successful aircraft originally built for Naval service but were successful in other Air Forces include, The F/A-18, F-14, and A-4. Go back to the kiddie table, leave this discussion to adults.
Do you even know what the F/A-XX is? Its the navy's verson of 6th gen. NGAD is the Air Force version of 6th Gen. Different Aircrafts for different missions and different environments. What works for the Navy will not work for the Air Force and vice versa. You remind me of that kid that never served in the Military but wishes he could and pretends he knows a thing or two when he really knows nothing.
@@madkabal He's right your idea is stupid and you just can't see that it is. Those planes you mentioned were specifically tailered for the Navy's mission as well as landing on Aircraft carriers. The Air Forces missions needs are different and they also don't need to take off and land on an Air craft Carrier. You don't use a plane designed for something else and try to force it to do something it isn't meant for. It's a good thing your not the one making decisions.
@michaelmichaelagnew8503 ok I hate to talk to you like you aren't grasping a simple concept. But I must since you think you are so smart. What branch was F-4 designed for? The Navy. What branch was the A-7 designed for? The Navy. Whst branch flew then both, abd for longer than the navy in larger the numbers? The Air Force. "Muh different missions" Fleet Defense abd Air Superiority are "two different missions" THAT DO THE EXACT SAME THING shooting down enemy aircraft! The F-4 it is then! "Carrier Strike Mission" and "Ground Interdiction" two "muh different missions" that DO EXACT SAME THING. Blowing up tactical ground targets! The A-7 it is then! My country's military budget is approaching 1 TRILLION DOLLARS! Enough is enough! I'm not go to entertain your stupid semantics game anymore! We have to start making cuts now! The easiest way to do that is the streamline production and limit needless variety for the sake of stupid semantics!! If a platform can do a mission effectively then that's what we need to go with! Navy F/A-XX for both branchs it is! The USAF is already scratching the heads in how to keep the B-21 from drowning. Enough with this stupid NONESENSE.
Isn't it funny how even when you see the blatant use of click bait, you still click. It's like looking awH from a terrible accident. Just not possible.
When the F-35 receives the Block IV update, it will evolve into a 6th-generation fighter.
→ teddy
How is that going to be the case?
If you go back to the beginning of the X-35 program it is OVER 30 YEARS OLD. Think about that! Fortunately / unfortunately it has been an evolving program. By the time the engine gets fixed it will be 35 years old. So it magically becomes a 6th generation. The radar cross section is too large to be considered a 6th generation aircraft. The engine is too inefficient / low performance to be considered a 6th generation aircraft. Probably a 6th generation aircraft will need larger internal ordnance storage. Probably most of the software & avionics will be good enough to be the starting point for further development for a true 6th generation aircraft but the airframe is very much compromised due to the lift-fan volume requirements.
The countries with the most fighter jets are the poorest countries.
Team USA
We need both! Let’s see what the budget holds with the new administration. Love your videos! Keep up the great work!
is a bird, is a plane, no is NGAD wtf is this .....
$300M a copy is chicken feed to Congress their martini bill runs that much at lunch. Jokes aside the NGAT is one wicked badass airplane if it can live up to the hype. Maybe Tom Cruise will take me for a ride in his if I join Scientology..