Where to find SBR powder? I play with conductive inks and I buy alot of different ink to test. I buy some inks from RMS and I like it, the conductivitiy is not the best but still way better ink that you can find on internet (the point is that conductivity is not all). The price could be a bit lower, but this is the price for conductive ink. I also like cayrex2 ink, his ink have good performance balance of all properties (good conductivity, flaxible, heat resistance, ). Also like cayrex say I one of his videos, the important components for making conductive inks are conductive material and binder. Oh man I like you all: Kev, cayrex2 and RMS, I think that you three are the carbon legion of this century.
SBR (Styrene Butadiene Rubber) is not sold in a powder form. Its actually a white liquid rubber emulsion mainly used as a high performance water resistant cement additive from builders supplies ;)
Great vid Kev, looks like a nice coating. I agree all the conductive coatings I have seen are more or less the same. I have had fairly good results using CMC, SBR and graphite, although I am still playing with the ratios. I am also trying other binders with the hope of making it more resistant to the particular electrolyte I am testing in a Zn MnO2 Cell. As you point out the graphite that is used makes a big difference to the overall resistance, I find a few days in a ball mill helps whatever graphite is chosen - Martin.Ps I'm sure people are waiting to see the conclusion to your last 3 vids, people just went for a small detour :-)
Hi Kev. You have convinced me to go over to that binder. the best I can get with cellulose acetate is 32 ohms and that's on a good day. Great work. How log did it take you to make that much zinc hexacyanoferrate. Can't wait to what you make next.
Nife-batterys is cool. Should not be expensive for anyone to make, for them selfs. Heavy yes, big yes. But almost undestructable, good in houses, trains and boats..I guess. Swedish inventor Waldemar Jungner was sued by Edisson. Guess what, Edisson won but it does not make him the inventor.
Well done Kev, I always wonder, why more layers on your paper are more conductive, when the theorists teach that a one layer thick graphene has the best conductivity ?? Hmm, it seems they are wrong...or when we do not have perfect surfaces that theory is invalid...so more layers conduct just better... BTW, when will you build a bigger supercap battery that can power at least a 1 Watt LED light for several hours ? Many thanks. Regards, Stefan.
Great presentation Kev. If varying pressure on your square probe changes the value you might consider putting a weight on it and use the same weight on all the samples. That would give you a standard comparison. The absolute value is somewhat irrelevant. Also irregularities in the coating surface may affect the readings. Using a squeegee or straight edge to flatten the surface might minimize the possibility.
Good points mate, but it was just a quickie one off thing to show everyone what is possible. If i wanted to make the stuff to sell then it would be a different story 😎
The destructive nature of batteries! Yes, indeed!! It's the nature of the beasts. That's what makes carbon batteries so intriguing. They appear to be less dangerous.
What makes batteries tick? Basically the difference in electronegativity in the chemials. Since we are interested in a carbon-carbon battery, there needs to be a differnce in the carbons that has a different electronegativity. For metals like Ni-Fe you can check the electronegativity difference in a periodic chart, but I am not shure how you do a carbon-carbon battery. I am guessing using two different carbons (like graphene and activated charcoal, but that is my guess).
@@jackcoats4146 Well, Pete from the former TH-cam channel "a" said, that is the difference between PH-values... one electrode alkaline and the other acidic, so then the current will flow...
@@StefanHartmann-hartiberlin Thanks Stefan. I was just doing that from remembering high school chemistry from the last melinium... Just wish I remembered more of it!
May I suggest "coating?". Nice vid Kev :>) I use RMS's ciggy butt recipe for my binder, for the carbon or graphite , dropper it on sheet of glass let almost evaporate. then peel off with razor and let the rest of the acetone evaporate. Can achieve pretty low ohm values too. If you do it just right the resulting material is very flexible. I get some time in this mad mad world like to put out a step by step on the procedure.
@@ferriswhitehouse1476 what i did was to just load up the acetone with as many ciggy buts as it would dissolve and go from there. If you find its to much then you can always thin out with acetone.
@@ferriswhitehouse1476 I put the cellulose in the acetone. Until it can't dissolve any more . Cap this up in small jar. When i use the carbon in it. I put some of the binder in a test tube. About 3 mL. then I add 1/4 to 1 mL. Polyalkylene Glycol to the test tube helps make everything flexible (It's Dot 3 brake fluid by the way). Then I add the carbonaceous material. cork the test tube Acetone drys quickly. Agitate the test tube to mix thoroughly. Dump on glass sheet and let dry. Peel up and rinse in distilled water. Hope this helps:>)
Hi Kev - nice job reporting out your numbers on the cmc/sbr 'ink'. That is a great base line recipe. Looking at your numbers , 50/32/18/10 ohms/sq. has very close correlation to the layering test I did with the Xanthan/Glycerin binder. You made me feel a lot better that I hadn't fallen off the train. The key was to compare resistivity on the paper substrates. As you hinted about potential cathode current collector problems - a solution can be either a full protective ink coat over an aluminum substrate as you've shown, or maybe a conductive ink on a paper substrate in the < 2-5 ohm/sq. range, Seems like a target within reach from where you're at now. Thanks for sharing you're work today, Dennis
@@denniskramer9788 I see your videos BUT NOTHING in your description of answering my original question? Which video are you referring to about where to get or make CMC and SBR solution?
Hi Kev and to all...Kevin, I've come to value and respect your knowledge for battery/supercap research and have learned a great deal from your videos. I always look forward to the next ....so when could we see your explanation on redox reactions you mentioned you'd do in the last video? And lastly for some reason SBR is very difficult to source in Canada or US, can anyone suggest a source or an alternative? Many Thanks
Extra Notes of interest: Although SBR/CMC makes an excellent binder for ones active positive materials, being very absorbent, micro-porous, flexible with good ionic conductivity, its not a good coating to protect positive current collectors directly and especially longterm by any means. The holy grail of super batt metal foil affordable electrode coatings is within reach: A completely non porous thin film coating to act as a conductive interface barrier seal coating between the metal electrodes surface and the active material binder matrix especially on the positive. This is nearly impossible to achieve with a graphite SMR/CMC binder coating for metal positive current collectors unfortunately to many a failure. The problem is that graphite suck eggs for positive conductive barrier coatings or as a positive active material conductivity additive in aqueous or DES sulfate, chloride, or acetate based electrolytes. As when charging the cell the graphite flakes & particles just expand, exfoliate & fall apart after a while when these ions are wedged in between their graphene layers, effectively turning it all into a randomized unconductive mush over time as previously reported. So one of the best solutions to this challenge to aim for is to use the Carbonators finest & highest connectivity nitrogen doped carbons, mixed with some milled carbon fiber with the best conductivity water proof acrylic varnish you may find at B&Q for example. Then ball milled altogether with some standard art grade silver leaf at low cost (a little can go a rather long way), to effectively dope & coat all the mixed micron fine ground carbons with ultra highly conductive silver. (The top surface micron layer of silver coated carbon on such a barrier interface coating can then be positively oxidized in ones electrolyte, but without unwanted resistance issues & still keep its conductivity high almost infinitely in theory.) Specialized super batt sub ohm barrier polymer electrode interface coatings using silver doped mixed N carbons like this can be made completely water proof & non porous by using acrylics, cellulose acetate, urethanes or various liquid plastic polymers or rubbers as the carrier followed by a heat sealing treatment. As solvent evaporates from a coating as it drys it tends to make is very slightly porous, so to seal it completely from an electrolyte the polymer coating surface needs to be able to slightly melt with a steam iron or hot air gun. So thats why its important to use a polymer that can fuse with heat so the coating then becomes 100% electrolyte proof longterm. Bet your new ball mill will work wonders if you where have a go making a specialized sub ohm coating such as this... PPP! :) (y)
Ps *Reckon your excellent hot press looks canny grand for heat sealing conductive polymer interface coatings after the coating is completely dry and free of solvent. The faster the drying of a solvent or water based coating the more micro porous it becomes due to too rapid solvent evaporation. So to achieve a high performance non porous barrier coating, its best to air dry the coating on say aluminum foil tape or fine stainless steel mesh naturally, or at very low heat. Then when completely dry of solvent high temp heat fusing of the conductive barrier interface coatings surface becomes far better & easier ;)
Hey Kev, is there any easy way to get hold of you? Maybe a phone number or an email? I am a scientist from Canada and need to purchase some of your products. Thanks Honeya
@@mouldykev Cool Amp is used to add a silver plate as such to copper. You use the powder with a little water to make a paste then rub it into the surface of copper for lower resistance to current flow. Kind of what you're looking for. It makes a real nice coating of silver that helps a lot in radio transmitter coils too, which is why i have it. It is a bit pricey but worth the outcome. I am not sure exactly what is in the powder though.
@@mouldykev Sure your welcome. Good luck with your projects. I may try some experiments too. If I get any good results I will happily share them with you.
@@mouldykev One more thing if I may bother you...sorry. I am looking into making something like these things from this video link... maybe this will give you an idea also. th-cam.com/video/K-PkoJrs5n8/w-d-xo.html
![[Full Episode] The Restaurant War Thailand ศึกพ่อค้าซ่าแม่ค้าแซ่บ Episode 2 | 29 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r3lfLNH6Ke4/mqdefault.jpg)
Where to find SBR powder? I play with conductive inks and I buy alot of different ink to test. I buy some inks from RMS and I like it, the conductivitiy is not the best but still way better ink that you can find on internet (the point is that conductivity is not all). The price could be a bit lower, but this is the price for conductive ink. I also like cayrex2 ink, his ink have good performance balance of all properties (good conductivity, flaxible, heat resistance, ). Also like cayrex say I one of his videos, the important components for making conductive inks are conductive material and binder. Oh man I like you all: Kev, cayrex2 and RMS, I think that you three are the carbon legion of this century.
SBR (Styrene Butadiene Rubber) is not sold in a powder form. Its actually a white liquid rubber emulsion mainly used as a high performance water resistant cement additive from builders supplies ;)
alchemist so where you get it.
@@aaknuu SBR emulsion is usually sold in 5 liter/ 1 gallon plastic containers from most builders merchants, but you can also buy it from ebay too ;)
Great vid Kev, looks like a nice coating. I agree all the conductive coatings I have seen are more or less the same. I have had fairly good results using CMC, SBR and graphite, although I am still playing with the ratios. I am also trying other binders with the hope of making it more resistant to the particular electrolyte I am testing in a Zn MnO2 Cell. As you point out the graphite that is used makes a big difference to the overall resistance, I find a few days in a ball mill helps whatever graphite is chosen - Martin.Ps I'm sure people are waiting to see the conclusion to your last 3 vids, people just went for a small detour :-)
Thanks again mate your input is always welcome 😎
Hi Kev. You have convinced me to go over to that binder. the best I can get with cellulose acetate is 32 ohms and that's on a good day. Great work. How log did it take you to make that much zinc hexacyanoferrate. Can't wait to what you make next.
Hiya mate, yeah i will be making much more than that.
Will show some other stuff soon too 😎
Nife-batterys is cool. Should not be expensive for anyone to make, for them selfs. Heavy yes, big yes. But almost undestructable, good in houses, trains and boats..I guess. Swedish inventor Waldemar Jungner was sued by Edisson. Guess what, Edisson won but it does not make him the inventor.
Well done Kev, I always wonder, why more layers on your paper are more conductive, when the
theorists teach that a one layer thick graphene has the best conductivity ?? Hmm, it seems they are wrong...or when we do not have perfect surfaces that theory is invalid...so more layers conduct just better... BTW, when will you build a bigger supercap battery that can power at least a 1 Watt LED light for several hours ? Many thanks. Regards, Stefan.
Yes Stefan my formula works, Graphene i don't know ?
The 1 Watt LED well watch this space my friend 😁
@@mouldykev Great to hear this mate ! ;)
Great presentation Kev.
If varying pressure on your square probe changes the value you might consider putting a weight on it and use the same weight on all the samples. That would give you a standard comparison. The absolute value is somewhat irrelevant.
Also irregularities in the coating surface may affect the readings. Using a squeegee or straight edge to flatten the surface might minimize the possibility.
Good points mate, but it was just a quickie one off thing to show everyone what is possible. If i wanted to make the stuff to sell then it would be a different story 😎
Hi Kev great video .learning ALOT from you guys. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Thank you for watching 😎
The destructive nature of batteries! Yes, indeed!! It's the nature of the beasts. That's what makes carbon batteries so intriguing. They appear to be less dangerous.
Yes but what makes them tick
why do they work ?
What makes batteries tick? Basically the difference in electronegativity in the chemials. Since we are interested in a carbon-carbon battery, there needs to be a differnce in the carbons that has a different electronegativity. For metals like Ni-Fe you can check the electronegativity difference in a periodic chart, but I am not shure how you do a carbon-carbon battery. I am guessing using two different carbons (like graphene and activated charcoal, but that is my guess).
@@jackcoats4146 Well, Pete from the former TH-cam channel "a" said, that is the difference between PH-values... one electrode alkaline and the other acidic, so then the current will flow...
@@StefanHartmann-hartiberlin Thanks Stefan. I was just doing that from remembering high school chemistry from the last melinium... Just wish I remembered more of it!
May I suggest "coating?". Nice vid Kev :>) I use RMS's ciggy butt recipe for my binder, for the carbon or graphite , dropper it on sheet of glass let almost evaporate. then peel off with razor and let the rest of the acetone evaporate. Can achieve pretty low ohm values too. If you do it just right the resulting material is very flexible. I get some time in this mad mad world like to put out a step by step on the procedure.
Yes mate i used that a lot in earlier vid's it's good stuff 😎
Mind sharing the ratios you use for it as a binder? I found 10% by mass ciggy butts wasn't enough for me
@@ferriswhitehouse1476 what i did was to just load up the acetone with as many ciggy buts as it would dissolve and go from there. If you find its to much then you can always thin out with acetone.
@@ferriswhitehouse1476 I put the cellulose in the acetone. Until it can't dissolve any more . Cap this up in small jar. When i use the carbon in it. I put some of the binder in a test tube. About 3 mL. then I add 1/4 to 1 mL. Polyalkylene Glycol to the test tube helps make everything flexible (It's Dot 3 brake fluid by the way). Then I add the carbonaceous material. cork the test tube Acetone drys quickly. Agitate the test tube to mix thoroughly. Dump on glass sheet and let dry. Peel up and rinse in distilled water. Hope this helps:>)
An excellent cheap source for cellulose acetate is a fabric store .
Mate i just tried your question about uploading vids but when i press on the notification once again i cannot find your question ?
Hi Kev - nice job reporting out your numbers on the cmc/sbr 'ink'. That is a great base line recipe.
Looking at your numbers , 50/32/18/10 ohms/sq. has very close correlation to the layering test I did with the Xanthan/Glycerin binder. You made me feel a lot better that I hadn't fallen off the train. The key was to compare resistivity on the paper substrates.
As you hinted about potential cathode current collector problems - a solution can be either a full protective ink coat over an aluminum substrate as you've shown, or maybe a conductive ink on a paper substrate in the < 2-5 ohm/sq. range, Seems like a target within reach from where you're at now.
Thanks for sharing you're work today,
Dennis
What's your percentage of xanthan gum and glycerin? Are you adding water to it?
Thanks mate 😎
@@Abc-sl1nf - search youtube for Dennis Conductive Ink and you'll find details in my earlier vids.
@@denniskramer9788 can you give me the link to which video? Thanks
@@denniskramer9788 I see your videos BUT NOTHING in your description of answering my original question? Which video are you referring to about where to get or make CMC and SBR solution?
Hi Kev and to all...Kevin, I've come to value and respect your knowledge for battery/supercap research and have learned a great deal from your videos. I always look forward to the next ....so when could we see your explanation on redox reactions you mentioned you'd do in the last video? And lastly for some reason SBR is very difficult to source in Canada or US, can anyone suggest a source or an alternative? Many Thanks
Hi,
Which video has the details to make or buy CMC and SBR solution? Do they come together or do we have to mix them together?
Thx
Can’t find your email that you posted in the comment a while back . What was it again ?
Thumbs up keep up the good work
Another excellent vid Kev!, def looks like your going into full scale zinc hexawidget production, all grand stuff! :) (y)
Extra Notes of interest: Although SBR/CMC makes an excellent binder for ones active positive materials, being very absorbent, micro-porous, flexible with good ionic conductivity, its not a good coating to protect positive current collectors directly and especially longterm by any means.
The holy grail of super batt metal foil affordable electrode coatings is within reach: A completely non porous thin film coating to act as a conductive interface barrier seal coating between the metal electrodes surface and the active material binder matrix especially on the positive. This is nearly impossible to achieve with a graphite SMR/CMC binder coating for metal positive current collectors unfortunately to many a failure.
The problem is that graphite suck eggs for positive conductive barrier coatings or as a positive active material conductivity additive in aqueous or DES sulfate, chloride, or acetate based electrolytes. As when charging the cell the graphite flakes & particles just expand, exfoliate & fall apart after a while when these ions are wedged in between their graphene layers, effectively turning it all into a randomized unconductive mush over time as previously reported.
So one of the best solutions to this challenge to aim for is to use the Carbonators finest & highest connectivity nitrogen doped carbons, mixed with some milled carbon fiber with the best conductivity water proof acrylic varnish you may find at B&Q for example. Then ball milled altogether with some standard art grade silver leaf at low cost (a little can go a rather long way), to effectively dope & coat all the mixed micron fine ground carbons with ultra highly conductive silver. (The top surface micron layer of silver coated carbon on such a barrier interface coating can then be positively oxidized in ones electrolyte, but without unwanted resistance issues & still keep its conductivity high almost infinitely in theory.)
Specialized super batt sub ohm barrier polymer electrode interface coatings using silver doped mixed N carbons like this can be made completely water proof & non porous by using acrylics, cellulose acetate, urethanes or various liquid plastic polymers or rubbers as the carrier followed by a heat sealing treatment.
As solvent evaporates from a coating as it drys it tends to make is very slightly porous, so to seal it completely from an electrolyte the polymer coating surface needs to be able to slightly melt with a steam iron or hot air gun.
So thats why its important to use a polymer that can fuse with heat so the coating then becomes 100% electrolyte proof longterm. Bet your new ball mill will work wonders if you where have a go making a specialized sub ohm coating such as this... PPP! :) (y)
Ps *Reckon your excellent hot press looks canny grand for heat sealing conductive polymer interface coatings after the coating is completely dry and free of solvent. The faster the drying of a solvent or water based coating the more micro porous it becomes due to too rapid solvent evaporation. So to achieve a high performance non porous barrier coating, its best to air dry the coating on say aluminum foil tape or fine stainless steel mesh naturally, or at very low heat. Then when completely dry of solvent high temp heat fusing of the conductive barrier interface coatings surface becomes far better & easier ;)
@@pedroalchemist8722 yes mate i am finding that the heated press will come more and more into it's own very soon.😎
@@pedroalchemist8722 great stuff again mate, i never did get to use that silver did i ? As per our last conversation about it 😎
Hi Pedro - lots of good info in your comments. Can you share your work in a vid? Would be much appreciated.
Hey Kev, is there any easy way to get hold of you? Maybe a phone number or an email? I am a scientist from Canada and need to purchase some of your products. Thanks Honeya
Hi feel free to contact me my email is mouldykev@gmail.com
I'm having trouble find a source for SBR in Australia has anyone got a link?
search under SBR Bond, it is a concrete additive
Thanks found some at local hardware store in the tiling section as a grout additive in a 1 litre quantity
Hi, have you ever tried adding some silver oxide or "cool amp" powder to help conductivity?
Hi Dave no is the answer but i do have silver on the shelf to try but just never got around to it yet, by the way what is cool amp powder 😎
@@mouldykev Cool Amp is used to add a silver plate as such to copper. You use the powder with a little water to make a paste then rub it into the surface of copper for lower resistance to current flow. Kind of what you're looking for. It makes a real nice coating of silver that helps a lot in radio transmitter coils too, which is why i have it. It is a bit pricey but worth the outcome. I am not sure exactly what is in the powder though.
@@davenooner2142 thanks mate i will look into it 😎
@@mouldykev Sure your welcome. Good luck with your projects. I may try some experiments too. If I get any good results I will happily share them with you.
@@mouldykev One more thing if I may bother you...sorry. I am looking into making something like these things from this video link... maybe this will give you an idea also. th-cam.com/video/K-PkoJrs5n8/w-d-xo.html
💞
Hi there green eyes❤