Making Sense Of The River Valley High School Incident? | The Daily Ketchup Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2021
- Is our high-stress education system a problem? What can we do to prevent another incident like this? And are reporters crossing the line to get a scoop?
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Cast:
• Johnathan Chua / johnathanchua
• Daniel Lim / danlim11
• Jonathan Paul / jonathanpaul.sxw
• Denise Oh / ohthedenise
Behind the Cam:
• Nashrul Merza
• Julian Chin
• Hisyam Osman
• Daren Khek
• Deborah Lee
Edited by:
Raymond Deoferio
As someone who came from a reputable school like RV, there is mental stigma between Teachers and students. Some might think that if they reveal that they can’t cope or have mental health issues, Teachers might remove them from their leadership roles or competitions (which are crucial to being a successful student), and will think that they are done for. Hence some will just bottle it up and not want to speak to anyone, scared of the “consequences” of it. School student culture can also be another factor. My school’s peer support leaders on paper advocate for mental health but behind closed doors discriminate their peers who openly talk about it.
Absolutely pathetic teachers. I dont have anyth against good teachers & i have the utmost respect for teachers tht inspire greatness in their students, but thr’s a different breed of teachers tht give me the impression tht they get a kick out of the authority they possess. It seems to me like these teachers push their students so hard not bcos they genuinely want them to achieve greatness, but out of pride to make themselves feel validated as a “successful teacher”.
@@squishypillow3162 Why is it the teacher's fault for relieving students who may not be able to cope with mental health and other commitments?
@@Blazer433 I think the teacher needs to understand the reason for the stress or mental issues and then help the student instead of just deciding to remove them from whatever position/activity to ‘reduce’ stress.
What makes everyone immediately think he had mental issues at the time of murder, just because he was in IMH two years ago? Why couldn't he have wanted to do this merely out of a desire to? Stop pinning the blame on mental issues when something like that happens. Interrogate and establish the motive. He may well be of sound mind at the time of murder - he was pretty certain he killed someone when he asked for the police to be called. That's cognitive clarity and awareness that wrong was done.
Yup true some Teachers only care about their moe grading
My younger brother went through bullying when he was in primary. This was 20+ years ago. I wasn't aware of it until I was adult when my mom told me. I was told that there's this Malay boy who would keep on disturbing my brother and even stole his wallet. And when my mom reported to his primary school teacher, the teacher just brushed it off. My mom went back to the teachers a few times and nothing was done. And he went through at least 1-2 years of bullying and this left him with lower self esteem in his childhood. Maybe my family was poor and my mom couldn't speak English, and that's why nothing was done. I don't know.
What I'm trying to say is, there are many factors in play. In the case of bullying, we have to consider whether the victim's family has the resources to voice out; whether the school and more importantly the teachers have the capacity to cope with the cases; whether the students have the safe space to report; what could be legal or informal process that family can take against the bully.
But you know what, one thing for sure, bullying will have an impact on the victim. It can be temporary which can dissipate when environment has changed and helps are available. It can be permanent when it changed how th person reacts to stress and similar situations in future.
Bullying is real. And it cannot be taken lightly. I was never bullied before. I wish I had known my brother was bullied when he was younger so that I can stand for him. But now that I have my own daughter, the lesson I am teaching her is to stand up for yourself and defend yourself. If the bully bullies you once, report to teacher. Bully you again, let me know and I will march into the school office and also speak to the Bully's parents. And if happen the third time, I will strongly encourage my daughter to punch the bully back if fingers is laid on her. Make the bully suffer. And I will stand by her judgment. This has nothing to do with resiliency. It's about standing up for yourself and protecting yourself.
Exactly! Well said!
YES! Enough playing nice with a bully who isn't playing nice her/himself
Yes, a boy kept kicking my girl, when I reported to the teacher, she brushed it off too. Eventually, I waited at school and confronted the mother and the boy. It was settled in the end.
Very enjoyable podcast and professional coverage of this serious situation which just happened. Looking forward to pods in the future :)
John's words had taught me so much.
It's really inspirational that we need to understand where others are coming from, especially those who are more vulnerable and needed empathy that no one has provided in this unavoidable situation.
Stigma definitely still exist...
Even those so-called "professionals" working in the sector have prejudice and badmouth against their colleagues and mental health patients (from personal experience)...
It's gonna take centuries for our people to really accept mental health as one aspect, and to talk about it...
Going to the Counselling and form teacher doesnt resolve anything, they just make it worst, form teacher will just give a serious talk to the class and the bullies will just bully u even further when the teacher is not there
The possibility of killings in Singapore schools are really more common than the authorities seem to know. I recall a time when a classmate strangled this other classmate for picking on him so much till his face became purple. This may have been a possible murder had the rest of us not stepped in.
As a student, I’ve heard people making jokes in regard to this tragic incident and I find that there are many people out there who does not possess a strong sensitivity side towards this serious matter. It’s pretty jaw dropping to hear remarks that are straight out absurd and truly, my faith towards humanity has spiralled due to such reaction that clearly lacks of empathy.
Bullying in Singapore is so common. It is often the trigger point for many incidents in school. Incidents do happen regardless of the type of school. From so many non-lethal incidents, there will be one which would be lethal or fatal.
Injuries in Schools due to bullying like slashings/hurting Happen more often than the news report...River valley was exceptional because it was a Renowned school and it involved the death of someone. There are many schools within Singapore that have a stigma..Most of them are "neghbourhood" schools.
John made a good point about how circumstance is a major factor when someone decides to seek help. Once had a batch mate in army, he went to the MO to declare depression and the next week he drove into camp in a BMW sport.
I’ve seen a school counselor before- unfortunately she made me feel judged throughout the whole session and teachers after that treated me with contempt based on what the counselor shared with them about my case. There’s a reason why I think school counselors are useless. Especially if anyone can become a counselor by being “certified” in one year. Years on I’m still on anti-depressants and schooling years have been the most traumatic years of my life
I was just focussing on the cup saying "DON'T YOU EMAIL ME IN ALL CAPS"
Teachers need to better handle bullying cases, tbh. Especially at the primary school level! Reporting to the teacher but hearing "just accept it" at P5 ruined my faith in teachers, and it took MULTIPLE fantastic & caring teachers I met in secondary school to restore my trust in this educating occupation and confide in them again. And parents need to be more open and attentive to their child's mental state. I only told my mom about the full story when I was in university. I might have just broke and confessed if my parents asked me "how was your day / how are you feeling" instead of "how was your exam / how was your tuition".
I've never been to a school counsellor, but my friend did and she said it was completely useless. There was also a lot of stigma of students going to the school counsellor and many try to sneak inside because they don't want their friends/classmates to see them.
*this was an equally reputable IP school, and I think the stigma is worst there. There was someone in my batch that came out to the principal about his mental health issues, they were make known throughout our batch (and at least 2-3 batches up & down) and they were often the topic of gossip. However big kudos to them for being so open about their condition and I believe they triggered a lot of worthwhile discussion in their class.
We still have a long way to go. Condolences to the victim's family & the traumatized RV personals (staff and students alike).
Can we appreciate how Daniel changed his tone appropriately for "this is your daily ketchup."?
Agree that he has done very well on that!!
It’s very annoying school these days. I remember back in 2009/10 when I was in secondary school, a foreign student 3 years older was in my class, kept walking around stealing and grabbing our food because he had no money. If you stood up against him, you’d get hit or have your head pushed into the food. He went around beating people and bullying people as he pleased. The Teachers knew of this, but did absolutely nothing. Students these days, with social media make it more difficult.
13:04 well said, learning to process emotions better is key. Students in school must readily be given an outlet where they can unload their frustration and it should not be their educators, preferably someone "neutral" to his or her personal being and non judgemental to be able to offer some comfort or help.
was constantly checking my youtube to await this video from you guys. Really mature, well thought out, well done guys. Subscriber now and always
Great Job love this podcast and cannot wait to listen to it :)
Good stuff. Thank you. Yes. Basically be mindful. N think before you say/do anything. ALWAYS.
Well said!Thank you!
At 18:09 that is a very good point. Should let the Sph know about it
Becoming my favourite talk show (:
@26:41 Personally, I find that telling people to STFU about how the incidents in the community/nation/country impact them runs contrary to the concept about promoting mental health wellness. What goes on in the wider systems (aka community/nation/country) naturally affects us. For instance, the pandemic required us to be in lockdowns and as we know for a fact, lockdowns do affect us physically, mentally, and emotionally. These experiences are real and valid to us, it is okay to talk about such experiences. It's a bit like the problematic common mindset of "you shouldn't feel sad because there are many people who have it worse." That is so invalidating and dismissive to the individual's experience. I don't have to have the most suffering on Earth before I can feel sad or confide in someone about my experiences. Just earlier in the video 4:40 it was mentioned that mental health is something that we should be talking about, but many don't because of the stigma around it. Imagine a person (not saying Pat) has been feeling languish and have nothing to look forward to for a long while except for their birthday/travel overseas but that has been cancelled because of covid? This person's mental health is still affected, and these seemingly minor things can snowball into a clinical mental health condition. Don't get me wrong, I do second John's stance that we need to be empathic towards the victims/involved parties in these unfortunate incidents. That's a really compassionate point to bring up. However, a person can be BOTH empathic WHILE recognizing that he/she is personally affected by these incidents. Both can happen at the same time.
You guys are doing great, keep up the good work 😄 I'm really enjoying every episode!
Singapore's privacy laws are not like the US. Here, you can actually take photos of anyone so long as they are in public. They have no right to demand to see the photo or to ask you to delete it, unless it is those upskirt, down-blouse photos etc that outrages a person's modesty. Those kind of "exposure" photos are protected under the law but all other "innocent" photos are not.
Isn't it similar for US though? If I'm not wrong.
Is nobody gonna talk about John's brows LOL
I think this entire situation can't be only one sided, but both parties must understand each other. Both the teachers/counsellors/parents and teenagers. I've always seen and heard my classmates where the fight and keep things to themselves, and they always don't want to approach the adults due to they do not want to make it that huge, but in the end, it always become huge cause it got out of hand.
I can't really say anything even though I've a "authority role", cause nobody really listens to me. They just tell me to f off or like go mind your own business, you don't care one lah.
And I think teachers do have to realise that, if they don't want to talk to some people at their age with "authority roles", how does it makes them think that, "if you need help, come call this helpline, seek help, etc".
I think teachers do need to realise that nowadays, teenagers, aren't going to openly talk to them. Teachers do need to take charge, instead of telling students to seek help if they need.
Cause like what I said, I did tried, and failed miserably a lot of times. Then I got really sad for a few months, then I went to the school counselor. The school counselor said (along the lines) that there was nothing wrong with me. I never said anything yet, we met just yesterday, and it was about 1 hour. So in that way, it made me think, am I not worth it? And I think in this entire situation, when I realized I felt this way, I thought maybe those who felt this way may also become the way they are now. Cause nobody cared about them, they wouldn't care about anybody.
It is a vicious cycle. It's like this line "You respect me, I respect you." So in that sense, it's like, "You care about me, I give the same kind of care about you."
These are just conclusions I had in my mind during this entire week, and like, many people may been affected due to these and maybe we all need to start being self aware about themselves and what they say.
When you have trusty friends whom you can share live, you may not need to turn to counselling yet. I learned that I need to put my health as priority over what others think. It is not a shameful thing to ask for help, it takes wisdom and maturity to differentiate.
As a student this is insane for me
First thing that I want to say straightaway, is that Daniel always used the appropriate tone to start off the video. Great job on that.
Edit: I also like to say that mental health is a real thing, something that people shouldn't just ignore lor.
john spitting facts 👏 we think this is an anomaly when students bringing parangs to school was a norm just a few decades ago. definitely one of the more insightful takes ive seen on this situation thus far!
Nowadays with an abundance of sensational or click bait content, I am more drawn to long-form and more in-depth discussions like this. Thanks for sharing this conversation and doing so in a sensitive way!
Enjoying this much much more than the weird sexual convos on real talk, some real talks are ok. But mostly Dee makes the whole vibe borderline creepy so I stopped watching whenever he is on. So so glad there is a separate channel to dedicate this great discussions
I think it is nice of y'all that given the topic for today, y'all remove the tik tok portion. That shows the sensitivity y'all have regarding the topic and it is sweet.
Do you guys think S'pore has done much to curb gangsterism? Please do a talk about this
i think what john was mentioning at 8:20 is called the 10 cent blade. a very sharp blade and can do a lot of damage. i don't see it for sale in sg anymore
very wise words john
And just yesterday, there was a sec 3 boy who ‘fell’ from the school but he was conscious so ig he’s ok?
Excellent episode as always. I'm a convert
If I'm not wrong, there's actually a law against walking around with a knife on oneself, concealed or unconcealed. Small knives like pen knives, Swiss Army knives I think is ok, but those kitchen knives that are big enough to kill, I think is illegal except when you just bought from store and bringing it home. But if you just, like in the old days, wrap newspaper around it and carry it around essentially like a weapon, even if for self-defence, the authorities can actually arrest and charge you.
Its legal to carry around most knives in SG, however u need to have a damn solid reason(e.g camping,gardening,etc) but self defence is not allowed and depending on the police, they can arrest u if they want if they check u
got one time my guy classmate bully me and say come punch me uh. I went and scratch his face until his face almost bleed until my classmates stop us. when the teacher came in did not even care.
Bully tend to happen when school and teacher cannot cane la, cannot scold too much la and just smile if any wrong doings happen and talk nicely as directed. Teacher cannot be fully blamed for what happen cause parents and ngo pressure on cannot "scold"/"cane"/"punish" naughty student
Well such physical punishment would likely backfire anyway, make the “bully” even more angry and build up more resentment.
I feel carrying a weapon and using it as self-defense may backfire. If the attacker's main intention was to threaten and was further provoked with the defender's weapon, things may go south. I personally feel the key is self-defense techniques (be it talking out of a situation, fleeing, etc). Like in the US, when there's a shooter in school, they pretty much know what to do. Maybe of the past case studies and incidents.
In most places, we have the fire drill, so why not a "general emergence drill"?
Just some thoughts.
Actually to be honest, there had been drills for terrorist attacks in my sec school in 2016/2017 so it had been there.
Plus, if the fire drill becomes a general emergence drill, people will end up doing stuff which may not work. E.g. for a terrorist attack, you are supposed to stay in a room and lock the classroom and not hidden but in a fire drill, you are supposed to run away from a fire.
I worked in MOE before this incident occurred, and we do implement lockdowns and shelter-in-place drills for schools. Annual drills are conducted with the police for teaching staff and students to be trained to barricade their classroom and schools have stairwell shutters to contain terrorist acts. We are not to confront the aggressor and let the armed responders to resolve the situation.
walao john's eyebrow on point sia
Maybe they should’ve an assigned spoke person for each school. Only that person is allowed to comment and reporters asking students should be banned.
hi, would be great if eng subs are added, love your videos😊
Agreed here, would also recommend timestamps too!
Imagine no more school bag 😁
For mental issues..... let's go down a notch & focus on creating happiness, mandate every Friday (maybe just the afternn) to be a Fun day, no classes, just to do stupid fun stuffs.
Edit: Imagine whole school just spend an afternoon blowing bubbles.
JP St Pats ah?
This shld be called 2days podcast not daily
26:40
@@eruptingsnow7717 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
@@eruptingsnow7717 14:33
@@Kenny-tl8bh This is the best comment thread and both of you are very talented people. hahahah
This is the new normal. Learn to live with it
Why bring a knife to school in the first place?! I was a bully in school in the 90s and I’ve never brought any weapons to school because I find it meaningless.
What led to your bullying behaviour?
i guess it’s for self defence, but schools don’t allow physical harm so-
What about the student?When the student run away…did they forgot their bag?????
Imagine getting back the bag.
they forget to bring home their THINGS-
is it still alleged (murder)?
yeah
Stigma exist la, that's why bully victim and mental health patient can't do what they supposed to do.
Adults does make that sh*tty environment thrive in our society. Why bad mouth and frowned upon victim? Mental health patient?
Bodo sia...
Teachers also canbe so bodoh in handling such situations. Stupid la, can't handle the situation in proper maner.
Sometimes protect bullies some more. Sexual assaults too. Babi itu teachers, school board etc... Shame on them.
Reporter already babi from the beginning of time already. Free speech mahh? Shame people until the bring of death also can kan? Not insinuating crime act kan?
F**k up la our society...
Check the students school bag every morning if you see something that does not belong in the bag call the police to cane to school talk to the stu dent or family member
schools need a metal detector breh lel
👍
The RVHS case isn't a typical "Ah Beng Gang Fight" why kept relating the case to yours? The alleged students came from an elite school remember that. The killing was just the tip of the iceberg - position yourself as the axe welding student that who had committed the crime, it was sad that empathy wasn't given to this poor soul who was indeed struggling in silence, where were his parents when he needed them most? In this school, failure is not an option and there isn't a route to so call "bail out", teachers despise you if your not up to par, parents are equally unsupportive if you found yourself in such a deadlock as in this case here. For students having hard time adjusting to such a crazy rat race, it will be a matter of time when such bottled emotions turned suicidal or homicidal.
Hi, I don't think there's a need to generalise the school and speculate about the case. Your part about "teachers despise you if your not up to par" generalises all the teachers in RV and I think that is really unfair to the teachers there. I cannot deny that there may be some teachers who feel so, but it is highly likely that they make a very small minority of the school. Regardless of that, we do not have any further information with regards to the case and your comment here seems to be shifting blame to the school and the teachers which may be false. At the point in time, teachers (good or "bad") in RV are trying their best to handle their emotions as well as the students and having such speculation serves no purpose except to demoralise them.
It is true that this case feels more shocking because it is an “elite” school. And there is indeed a lot of academic pressure from peers, parents, and teachers, even if they are nice or supportive in their own ways. We do not know the details of what led to this particular incident, but many of us from Singapore will naturally be reflecting on our own experiences and trying to make sense of this. Nonetheless, there will definitely be personal, family, social, and societal factors at play.
Was he inspired by the axe killer in Fear Street on Netflix?
When I was young,and I was a bully before-
is not because I’m bad but is it because someone tell me to do it-
Is like :do it I will give you money but if you don’t do I will bully you
I don’t want to get scolded so I don’t want to join them
So I got bully for 4months…
I tell my parent and they tell the principal
And he say sorry to meeeeee😮💨