We used to go to Disneyland 5-6 times a year, but now with all the line jumping programs, we only go about once very couple years. Way too much “being on the phone” time to be able to really enjoy the vibe of the park.
I don't mind being on the phone. It's a lot better than racing all over the parks to get paper passes then come BACK to those locations again later. It's much faster, and one less trip per attraction, now. But of course there are all the standby and value conversations I agree with from David here.
I was in park recently and I overheard a guest say the last time her & her family were at the parks was 7 years ago because of the pricing & this is their recent trip in 7 years
@CUTravel1st then you don't understand the original purpose or mission statement for the disney parks. Walt said, as long as there is imagination disneyland will never be finished. He wanted it to change and progress to draw more people, to adapt to new films the company needed to promote or celebrate.
@@darkandstormymama I will kinda disagree with you. Walt always had certain things in the parks and movies and this new Disney does none of that. Walt always had things from the past in the park. Lessons to learn in a fun way for children. The new Disney doesn’t care. They don’t care about family’s or life as in the last case of the lady who died. They want money. I bet there will be more shops and restaurants than rides. In the end they will lose attraction from what they have said. It’s also about expensive. The rivers take more money to upkeep. That’s the main reason they’re doing it. They have room to build.
Before covid-1984, Disneyland had Max Pass. It started at $10/day or $75/yr for AP holders. In January of 2020, it was $20/day. While you still had to select rides and wait to book additional rides in between, if you wanted to ride Space Mountain 4x that day, you could. Now, we're paying a minimum of $30/day ($25 is looong gone) for a far inferior product. I'm guessing that this Premier LL, might be a renamed Max Pass. They have the technology (DAS) and like you've said, most people don't like MPLL. Thanks for the info!
Avengers Campus opened at DCA in 2021 (last time I was there), Sanfransocio opened in 2023 so combined that explains the increase at DCA; I was in WDW in 2022 and yeah the hours that AK are open definitely shows why the attendance dropped there, I mean why have night time experiences (like in Pandora) and not be open when it's dark
I thought you could do Pandora at night? Wow, that's crazy if you can't. I mean I get closing down things like the Safari and all of that at night, and it's probably nice they don't have roller coasters going in the night to freak out the animals, but yeah. That's crazy
@@Mike__B i think cause animal kingdom typically closes early like 6-8pm so its pretty much impossible to see avatar at night except in the winter when it gets dark early i guess
As a guest who visits from out of state, and not being able to get to Disneyland as often as our family would like, lightning lane is horrible. We travel with 5 people and stay for 5 days. If we choose to do lightning lane, it adds several hundred dollars to the cost of our already very expensive vacation. I know we can choose not to upgrade or just buy it for a day or two but so many of the standby lines are miserable. We used to go every year. We LOVE Disneyland but now we can only afford to go every few years at the most. 😢
Cut a day or 2 and get multi pass. You’d get all the rides in and the multi pass would be paid for with the hotel and food savings from the shorter vacation
35:39 the only fries I remember getting at Disney was when McDonald's was in Disneyland. There was the fry cart near Big Thunder and DCA near what is now Goofy's Sky School was basically an in-park McDonald's. Clearly loosing McDonald's fries was a loss. Fond memories of that fry cart.
AECOM does not publish official figures. They guesstimate, ask the parks if it’s within a certain margin, and will rinse and repeat until they arrive at a number the parks are comfortable with having published. This was covered quite extensively in an old interview on Season Pass Podcast.
Disneyland was so much better in the days when you just showed up and let the park itself decide your day. No reservations, no pre-booking, no virtual queues, no return times. It was just a better experience to see where the day would take you. Its too stressful now. You can hardly do anything impromptu.
I literally just did that this week, for the first time ever. Usually I plan like crazy but this time we just did whatever appealed in the moment. And I rode all my must rides, ate all the food I hoped to find and only used my phone for pictures and mobile ordering (which saved so much needless standing). I barely even took pictures. You absolutely can go and not worry about your phone or timing or schedules and have fun
Disneyland Paris has "Premier Access" for $100-200 per day per person. It allows you to use the lightening lane at anytime on any ride, once a day. Since they are using the same lingo, my bet would be on that, as it would give them another premium revenue stream.
@@kyledennis1082 in other words they are double selling you a ticket to have access to the attractions in the park. It’s becoming an elitist activity to go to a Disney park.
@@WindowtotheMagic Well, from what I understand, 60% of the LL line was being used by DAS guests. I think when FP was free, it was a little more spread out. Also, with FP, you could book the same attraction more than once so a lot of people would run through Haunted Mansion and Pirates multiple times and stay out of some of the other attraction lines. I think it's a combination of things...not paying for the service lowers your expectations of how many lines you can cut and how short the lines should be. If you can grab a couple free fast passes in the day, you feel like it was a free bonus - not something you paid for that didn't deliver results.
Our friends who used to regularly go to WDW aren't going at all anymore. They are going to international trips instead. The LL and crowds at WDW are too much. And it costs the same to travel to other countries.
It’s crazy how terrible lightning lane is. I was just at Disneyland last night and saw how much that system affects the lines. I got in queue for Indiana jones with an advertised wait of 45 min. The lightning lane queue was full and we were at a dead stop for maybe 15 minutes and quickly realized cast members were just trying to empty the lightning lane queue. Once they were gone it took 10 minutes to enter the temple and another 5 to board the ride. Once we got off since there was no more lightning lane users in the queue. The standby went from a 45 min line to 15. It’s insane how badly this terrible service affects the parks!
@@WindowtotheMagic yes it was! Around 8:30 PM. Got in line it was a 45 min advertised wait. It took only 30, but for 10 minutes the line didn’t move cuz cast members emptied lighting lane, after that we were on the ride 15 minutes after. Once we got off the ride, the advertised wait time was 15 min😂
The last time I saw Disneyland truly busy was, New Year Eve 2019. I think the paused to gate briefly. It was so packed. Then a short time later.... During covid and after I will always remember that night it was wonderful to see so many people in Disneyland. During covid I knew we will never see crowds like this again. Disneyland at 47k average per. day. I remember pre-2020, 50k was a number I was hearing. With max. at 70-80k. I do recall a handful of time the gate was paused.
It’s pretty bad when buying a ticket into the park is now a “second class citizen” for standby. It’s Disney creating issues to turn around with a solution for a cost. I think it’s terrible!!
And name ONE OTHER THEME PARK that has done this long before Disney. Even Legoland did this like 10 years ago. But let’s rag on Disney without knowing the facts first.
@@Chili327 That's what they want. They don't want the "2nd class" guests attending. They want those people who are going to spend the money on food, merch, and other experiences for multiple days at a time, (i.e. the people who are going to the parks for multiple days once a year or even once in their lifetime). They don't want the average, everyday locals who hold Magic Keys in the parks because we go, we might ride a couple of rides, we might get a snack, and once every two or three trips we might buy some merchandise. They have actually come out and said they don't want DLR to be a "local's resort", which it is when compared to WDW. It likely always will be, no matter what they try. But I sincerely hope you're right and I hope it does indeed come back to bite them, and I hope it bites them sooner rather than later.
A magic pass with no reservations would be ideal. I’m a tourist now so I don’t mind reservations because when I’m on vacation I plan out my time anyway. No big deal. But when I was a local I would have hated reservations. Just showing up randomly at the end of a rough day is one of the biggest highlights of the magic key (or just “annual pass” at the time)
I cannot stand Lightening Lane. I know Disney will never get rid of it with it being such a cash cow, but it is horrible for the average guest experience.
But you do not have to use it -- Right? This skip-the-line system goes back to the old Fast Pass days when you had to walk all the way over to that ride to get it, then it was on the app, then you had the free FP or the paid MaxPass, then these other name changes.Same for Disney World (which was and still is better)) But you have never had to use them.
@@FunAtDisney you are correct, I don’t have to use it or purchase it. My point is that this system very much negatively impacts the experience that other guests have. I am sorry you are not capable of seeing that.
@@ScanFan_Ed But every themepark has a similar set up. Legoland has a 3-tier system. I think $25, $50 and $100 + standby and they started that years ago. Universal system (which I like) can be up to $250 in Florida. But if Disney World did that-- They would get shit on for it! It’s just the way it is - But for some reason people go after Disney for doing the same. It’s like the whole DAS Pass thing that Disney just updated. Nobody bothers to do 5-1/2 minutes of research to find Universal, Knott’s etc. have the same system.
@@justimagine2403 What would you rather have instead? I’m not being sarcastic - Just curious. I have gone to Disneyland for decades and yes it was much easier back in the day just to walk up to an attraction and wait. But….Sometimes that could be for a long time (Space Mountain in its early days when I was a CM could get up to 3 hours!). And I do recall we use to kid it would be nice to make reservations for rides like you did for restaurants (Blue Bayou being the only one back then).
Yes, Universal Express is more, but it includes park entrance, unless you get the upgrade. Also, you just go to the line and scan in your pass for each ride that takes the pass. You don't need to join a queue or reservation. Overall, it can be more expensive than Disney a lot of the time, but I like how it works better than Disney. Either way, both are bad for people in the standby lines.
David, I am waiting for Epic Universe to open before I go again, have been since it was announced. I’m from Australia so it’s an expensive once every few years trip. Maybe some from the UK are in the same boat?
Let me preface this by saying I love Disneyland and grew up as a Inland Empire local attending the park pretty regularly in my teens and after. I’m 58 and have visited MANY times as an out of towner. I have special childhood memories with my mom who is now passed. I’ve brought my kids, dragged my husband and come when I was 7 mos pregnant for a wedding anniversary. I love Main Street and all it has to offer. I’ve done my best to Disneyland indoctrinate my kids so they can remember those fun times. But I believe they have finally priced me out. When a pricey all inclusive ticket is purchased you shouldn’t have to buy another ticket, which is a healthy percentage cost of the original ticket to ride an (1) attraction. In some areas of business it’s referred to as “double dipping”. The loop hole Disney has here is the original purchase leaves you in the secondary or standby line. You’re not forced to purchase LL but Disney certainly takes a stab at making you feel less than after you’ve spent a lot of money on their premier park. I do understand creativeness and Imagineering at the level Disney does it is expensive. It alway has been. Walt’s dream was about parents having a place they and their children could go together and play. A place to create those happy memories. I have to wonder what his take on this would be. Lately they’ve been just nickel and diming all they can out of the guest. Any ”jump the line” premier ticket at ANY park is going to slow the flow of the original line. The average family doesn’t have $100-$200 per person per day to spend on rides AGAIN, as opposed to feeding that same family on vacation. If you don’t have those worries I’m truely happy for you. But I think most families trying to stay out of vacation debt are concerned about every penny spent. So I’m grateful for people like Dave and the way he presents the park so I can get my Disney fix. ❤ Thanks Dave for Fresh Baked. (Now don’t get me started on the changes to DAS!)😱😳😊
Animal Kingdom numbers explained: Avatar opened, and created a huge lift seen in the 2019 numbers. It's not new anymore, and the hours are weird. No major new attractions since Pandora. So it's falling. Will see a lift with Tropical Americas. Hollywood Studios is more surprising given it has had more new attractions lately. EPCOT also had Ratatouille and Frozen added in that time, so 3 major E-ticket attractions with those and Guardians. Makes sense.
Hinestly, i REALLY like they way Magic Mountain does their Flash Pass. They have 3 tiers. Lowest Tier you reserve the return time at whatever the posted wait time is. This lets you join another que while waiting in the virtual line. Medium Tier costs more and cuts the virtual wait time by 50% of whatever the posted wait time is. This is good because you walk to a lot of rides and get there by the time it is ready or very close to it on regular days. Highest Tier costs the most and cuts the wait time by 90% of whatever the wait time is. This is fantastic because there is almost no waiting and every ride is a basic walk on. All 3 tiers can only hold 1 reservation at a time.
I can see people waiting to go to Universal until Epic Universe opens. Not everyone can afford to go every year. My family is lucky if we get to go every 5 years, and that's with saving and really cutting back on expenses. We have something go wrong and that extends when we can go again. I can absolutely see people saving up to go to Epic when it opens, especially after they announced how you would actually get a ticket for Epic Universe.
Avenger's Campus wasn't open yet in DCA in 2019, so the Park added a land. And for Epcot, Remi's wasn't open yet in 2019 and Cosmic Rewind opened in Mid 2022. So thats why those parks have recovered/increased their occupancy so well. Those are the parks with new attractions. You will see an increase in MK from 23-24 since TRON opened in 23.
Actually no. MK attendance is way down. The reason Epcot is showing an increase is because they are still using the partial shutdown attendance as a basis of comparison.
I hope you’re right about lighting lane premier pass. I’ve said a million times I hope they change to universal style. Their bottom line would be the same. But the impact to the guests would be so much less. It would be much more valuable for LL also, they’d actually get to the front, change it to a $100+ system!
in the days of maxpass for $10 per guest per day, we were all over it. it totally changed how we planned our days and allowed us to ride much more. that was a game changer. i still pay for genie+/llmp because we can only get to the parks once every few years, but it makes me groan about the extra cost, esp. given that the tickets are so much more expensive now. premier pass? no way! it already kills me financially to visit the parks. however, if they get rid of llmp and only offer pp, i would skip getting pp and stand in line with the 98% of guests who would then be in standby, like at universal. thanks for this discussion, dave.
As a guest who only gets to go to Disneyland once a year I would absolutely pay extra to be able to pre-book my lightning lanes for certain times. It would be far less stressful for me to know my kids would be able to ride Radiator Springs Racers and to ensure we get the nighttime Small World ride during Christmas time when it's all lit up. Sorry if I'm part of the problem, but don't live close enough to go whenever so when we go we want to make sure we get it all in.
Couple options I see added beyond early booking, picking exact times etc. One is letting you get lightening lanes with the Premier pass on rides no one else can. Perhaps like a new attraction is Premier pass only for the first month or something. Maybe even being able to just have flat out unlimited "lightening lanes" in a day, any ride. Just constantly walk on to the rides for something like $200 per person.
The worst is when you pay for Lightning Lane and they run out of spots for it on the popular rides. So I have paid for a service they oversell. This happens all the time in Florida. Would really hate to see that happen in California :(
I am SO EXCITED for the hungry bear BBQ! My 7 year old son asks for ribs everytime we go to Disney but they only had them seasonally at paradise garden grill. So much easier and cheaper in a kids meal!
@@caseypenk Glad you couldn't tell it was a reskin! Some parts are more lazy than others. For example, the restrooms and the building for the Spider-man attraction are repurposed. But the Avengers building, Pym Test Kitchen, and the Sanctum are built from the ground up. Guess I'm just upset at the lack of shade in Avengers Campus.
The only way we are able to add it on prior to the parks is if you order through Get away and you have to pay for all days, not only one or two. We also we not able to book anything ahead of time. We have skipped and paid if we needed it, and we then last year we booked all 5 days with Genie Plus, and it was great. It was at the start of the holiday season. We got the Genie + for our tickets we have now, I assume they will change to multi pass or give us a refund. I wish we could book our LLMP ahead if time and what time we ride. Planning goes out the window. We just went with the Genie plus flow. It worked out well.
Agree, don’t want the prebook LL thing at Disneyland. Is another possibility that the premier pass lets you ride attractions multiple times with return times for about $50? That would be better.
I visited Disneyland and Disneyworld last year and I am from New Zealand. It cost thousands to get there and back home and I used the Genie + and lightning lane at both parks and whilst I do not like they make you pay more to get on a ride faster, I wouldn't have got on nearly as many rides without it and I am not sure when I will get back again so for me, personally, it was worth it and for international travelers who may only visit once e very 4 / 5 / 10 years, I would recommend spending the extra. That might be who the Premier pass is aimed it, those of us that can't get there often but want to see as much of the parks as possible in as little time as possible. Cause when we are spending thousands just to get there, we will pay more to do as much as possible.
I think Universal Hollywood did better in 2023 due to the addition of Super Nintendo World. The rest of the park really isn't too busy there, but SNW is always packed. I am excited for the menu at Hungry Bear. I have never eaten there because nothing on the menu looked appetizing or worth the cost. I will definitely try it now.
THe Premier Pass in Tokyo I believe are not for a specific time but for anytime during the day. They are also part of staying at a Tokyo Disneyland hotel and get a package.
If we came to Disneyland on a vacation, or Disney World - Heck yes we would par $125 or more. When we went to Disney World in 2022, and then a couple days at Universal we were going to get that Universal Unlimited Express pass for about $200 per day for the 3 of us. We ended up upgrading to one of their Deluxe hotels were that was included for all of us (the room was about $250 more per night, but that that was better than $600 per day for those passes).
The world already has huge income disparity and hollowing out of the middle class; we don't need Disney treating people differently based on their income once they've purchased theme park admission! 😢
Defunctland talked about how genie+ would make standby a nightmare and he was right. As a magic key holder ive learned how to maximize ride time a lot, but wouldnt mind doing unlimited guardians break out. Its my my favorite ride of all
That's true. Super annoying. I went to WDW recently and I HATED knowing that I had a confirmed ride on things. It was awful being able to plan my day and to schedule things when they worked for me. Let's return to the days of not being sure of anything!
For most, a trip to Orlando Is A once or maybe twice in a lifetime thing. Others May visit once every 5 or 10 years. So it makes perfect sense that people would wait until epic universe is completed to visit florida. That should go a long ways to explain lower occupancy and not only Universal Parks but also Disney parks located in Florida. I think Disney knows this and is expecting a bump in business with the opening of Epic universe . That's one reason why they haven't been too concerned with the new park and why only now are they making announcements for new attractions that would be complete a couple of years after at epic universe opens.
My husband and mom took me to Universal Studios Hollywood back in January of 2020 for my 50th birthday and they purchased the Universal Express Pass and it was worth it. We just wanted to have a chill day and having the pass made it so we could go on the rides whenever we wanted to. No planning was great. If Disneyland did something like that (where we could go on each lightening lane ride once, any time we wanted), we would definitely purchase it. But I have to mention that we only go to Disneyland about every 5 years for our anniversary. (it takes us that long to save up enough money)
They do it at Disney World because so many guests are from out of town staying for multiple days. They took it away for awhile and not it’s just back. I don’t think it will work here. Lot more locals who are way too savvy to do that. Ability to to book 1-3 attractions in advance isn’t worth it. And we are nowhere near as crazy crowded as Disney World.
The lightning lane system may not be the best, but there is nothing wrong with the concept of a fast lane. Every park has it. Some people can’t or don’t want to waste their time waiting in lines all day and are willing to spend extra to avoid it. We are not rich but we don’t go to Disneyland unless we can afford the tickets and the lightning lane.
It’s not talked about that much, but MaxPass was actually a significantly better system for the user and the park as a whole. Would love to see them somehow go back to that and make it an add on for AP’s
There are only two non-monetary differences between MaxPass and Genie+/LLMP: Being able to use it on the same ride multiple times per day and the number of return times booked per hour. The part of the post-pandemic system that's causing the problems is the inflated number of return times. Disneyland spent years finding the balance for FastPass return times (including some work-arounds where return-times would be removed when breakdowns happened) that kept the standby queue flowing and freed up guests (on average: those who didn't use FastPass at all lost time) to spend more time outside of the queues, which resulted in increased overall guest satisfaction and an increase in daily guest spending. Had Genie+ been simply a paid version of that, there would have been some grumbling about FastPass becoming paid-only, but people would have eventually just treated it like all the other price increases. What Genie+ broke was that in order to have more product (the service is the product) to sell, they increased the number of return times per hour, which means that even Lightning Lane users now spend longer in line than people did in the old FastPass queue and the Standby queue spends long periods at a total stop. This results in more total time spent in queues per guest on average and leads to a drop in merchandise sales and guest satisfaction. Management actively chose to harm the rest of the park to make the new service a massive revenue source. They can claim big sales numbers and high revenue numbers to the shareholders from the massive sale of Genie+, even if there might have been more total profit park-wide and better long-term word-of-mouth if they had set the Genie+ sale limit lower per day. And the damage won't be seen for a while. I took my eldest niece to Disneyland last year and the three younger ones (ages 9 through 11) were crying because they thought they would be forced to go. They hated the trip their parents took them on in 2022 so much due to the massive wait times that the mere idea of going was upsetting to them, but the shareholders are blinded by "big Genie+ numbers" so the company is pushing harder for it.
I seriously hope that whatever Permiere Pass ends up in Disneyland, it isn't what WDW Fastpass+/current LL is, because that system is a seriously bad system. Back in 2017 (my last WDW visit) not only did FP+ had an absurd ratio, so much that in Pirates at Magic Kingdom we waited standing still for a long time in stand by when it shouldn't be like this (back in 2010, we did Pirates standby, and it was only at most a 10-minute wait). When we went for the first time at Disneyland with my family last year, I did purchase LL for all 3 of us, and it worked wonderfully, mind you, we did experience the ugly side of a long standby for Runaway Railway (it was still an additional purchase then) but for the other rides, not only we did a mix of standby and LL when we wanted it, but since not all rides in DL use LL, it helps with making the lines shorter compared to the mess they have in Orlando (helps that in DL, you can only start booking LL when you enter the park, so the availability is the same as in the old paper system in theory). At the end of the day, who knows what this will be ending up as, maybe just divide which rides get Premiere Pass, like a rebranding for the LL in Rise or the Resistance and Radiator Springs Racers or just to consolidate what Disneyland Paris and Tokyo use for their skip the line services (that also use Premiere in their wording).
If I was going to guess what premier pass might be, I’d guess it just includes the rides that currently you have to purchase separately- so that it is inclusive of all rides.
My thoughts: Animal Kingdom was probably up because of Pandora opening in 2017. The years after that were up because of interest, until the pandemic. DCA and EPCOT have the "festivals", with lots of alcohol flowing. I don't drink, but most of my friends with passes frequent DCA because they can easily get alcohol. They avoid DL because they "can't deal with the people and lines without their alcohol". There's also the addition of new rides in EPCOT and DCA with Avenger's Campus opening. Universal Hollywood is probably up because of AP/MK's leaving Disney and going to Universal for less expensive fun. The new Hungry Bear menu looks interesting to me, but my family has severe dietary restrictions, and this new menu looks like my family won't be able to dine there, giving us yet another restaurant we won't be able to eat at.
I don’t get why during the week, M-Th could they do like WDW and have the opportunity to enter the park without a reservation after 4 pm? I would love to be spontaneous again…
I don’t get why during the week, M-Th, you don't just make a reservation and visit. MOST days are available, most weeks. Heck, I could even get a reservation for today RIGHT NOW. I just checked.
One month ago, "Is it worth it for people it to spend 125 dollars to get unlimited lightning lane?". One month later, "Disney release new Premiere pass, not to get unlimited, but to get 1 ride per day lightning lane for...... 400 dollars." haha. This is getting crazy!
The biggest difference between Universal vs. disney is 200$, which is the park ticket and the express disney with park hopper+ Fast pass is literally well over 300$ b4 you even step foot in the park
Maybe premier pass would be for hotel guests - which they should do in my opinion. We have had so many rides closed on early entry - and I can tell you that in my experience the early entry is not much of a benefit. The Disneyland hotels are so much more expensive than other hotels - and Disney world hotel guests are now getting a pre-booking benefit. The Disneyland hotels are not a compelling value proposition.
Hey Dave, does the attendance data factor in people leaving and coming back into parks? Or park hopping? Is the data based on tickets sales only or an absolute number just based on “turnstiles”?
They should do a LL and a LL+ where the LL package works like the existing multi pass, and the LL+ Includes the fancy rides as well and maybe multiple bookings for the same attractions.
I do think capacity is lower than it was before even FastPass but standby lines are so artificially high now with all the incentive to make them higher.
I really don't want pre-booking lighting lane to come to Disneyland. I only come once a year if I'm lucky. I do use lightning lane but I like to have the ability to decide what we are doing when we are there. Base it on ride closures and what else is going on in the park. Currently planning our first trip to DisneyWorld and it's so stressful that I'm going to have to pre-booking rides.
Disney World already does this now to pre-book rides when they renamed everything to Lightning Lane Multipass, if they wanted to do this with Disneyland why didn't they do it at the same time they renamed Genie+ to Lightning Lane Multipass at Disneyland? Or if Disneyland is planning to switch to pre-book your rides, just call it Lightning Lane Multipass? It doesn't make sense to call it something else if this is their intention. If Premier Pass works like Express Pass would be a good idea but it might cut into their VIP Tours? VIP Tours really only get you immediate access to the Lightning Lane, so if Premier Pass did the same I'm not sure it would make sense either unless their VIP Tour started taking you through the exit or something for immediate access to the ride. As a Magic Key holder though you should hope that Disneyland doesn't implement the Disney World system as right now WDW Annual Passholders get horrible availability for Lightning Lanes unless they are staying at a Disney hotel. We can only book a single day 3-days in advance too, so if you are going multiple days in a row, you still have to wake up at 7am everyday, just 3 days earlier than your vacation. Its worse if you're going with friends who have tickets since you can't match up Lightning Lane times either. The Genie+ system (and the system Disneyland still has) worked much better in this respect. What if Premier Pass is actually just a Magic Key addon that gives you Lightning Lane Multipass all year long similar to how they had that option for MaxPass? Or it could be nothing and just another name for Lightning Lane Multipass they were testing before they decided on Lightning Lane Multipass.
I wonder if they do something like Universal and just getting rid of Genie + LL. Standard Queue and Premier queue. I could see that being good for the parks honestly.
I like in Florida you can say pick mermaid for 330. Buzz for 515 and Peter Pan for 655. Once you use one you book another. So you have a choice of setting up your day how you want to
I’m not much of fan of Lightning Lane as well. I feel before Covid when every one had fast lane with their ticket purchase was a better system. That was better handled than the lightning lane. I go alone a lot to Disneyland and I feel they should have more single rider rides at the park. Do you think they will bring single rider to Rise of the Resistance to Disneyland? I know they started that system at Hollywood Studios in Florida.
Disneyland Paris already have Premier Access which is similar to Universal Express. They have the 1 time 1 attraction version and the 1 time each attraction (ultimate) version. Ultimate costs >$100 like Universal.
If Disney must have a skip the line buy up, I think Disney should adopt something similar to Universal's express pass. It is wildly expensive, which means that far less people use it, which would unclog stand by a lot.
We don't ride much anyway at this point. USH hit it out of the park with SNW. Not surprised at all. I agree that DCA is up because of the reservation system. I'm 50/50 on Hungry Bear. It's great that they'll be getting a new menu and excited for some of the items, but now our favorite chill spot will likely be super busy.
I think the higher one with better benefits would be best option. Reduce LL's impact on standby and make it more of a deal like other theme parks. I think u mentioned something like this before about it being too low in price and that's why LL lines impact everyone else so much.
Disney would never do this, but maybe lightning lane premium becomes the paid lightning lane and lightning lane becomes free (included with the park tickets). This would be the same setup as fast pass and fast pass plus except all done in the app. There would additional perks for the premium. One can hope.
I hate the post fast pass system. Some might say I may be a connoisseur of hating Lightning Lane. But let me tell you. I just went to Six Flags Magic Mountain last Saturday and my goodness. That flash pass system was never used because it's $150 for ONE DAY! But yeah Six Flags has a very different way of working. In particular, the way that the workers move guests on rides. If a guest has the highest teir fast pass ($275) they just get first dibs on where to sit on a ride. And they don't direct the other guests where to sit. So if you pick say the front row with your family of 4, like I did on Tatsu, you might (I did) have to wait for two trains to cycle just for the Flash Pass guests to go through! And two trains may not feel like a long time, but with no cast members directing guests, loading and offloading can take so long! It feels intentional to pressure guests into buying the Flash Pass. But it makes me realize that Disney is a fantastic value compared to what other companies may be using. It sucks that Disney started to follow these predatory practices. And it does scare me that they may follow deeper into these strategies.
Do you think the DCA numbers have to deal with people needing to make a reservation at DCA if there are none left at Disneyland? Then people park hop over.
Got my grand son the $100 pass at Knotts. That was so worth it. He rode ghost rider 3 times and others of his favorite multiple times. I hate Genie+. It has ruined the park for the average park goer. There is now 2 classes of guests_very sad! I won’t ever do the Knotts pass again but I don’t think it affected the standby as very few passes were sold that day.
I always purchase Genie+ and Parking beforehand. One less thing to have to do when I get to the park. I don’t have to think about it, it’s already done. I’m buying it regardless. I’m picking my first pass while someone else is checking out.
I love lightning lane because my partner is disabled but in a way that it’s hard to prove to the actual parks that standing that long causes a lot of pain. Getting to move through shorter lines and then take breaks is wonderful and worth the money.
I go once a year and i'm a DVC member, And I 1000% would pay extra to have one day where I didn't have to wait in the line and just gotta go, right to the front. I would not do it for every day of my trip but I definitely would do it for 1 of the days of my trips
Lightning Lane Multipass costs $35/person/day now, not $25. When we went last year, it was going up to $30 but we got a deal when we went through Getaway Today and got the $25 price. So it can be beneficial to get it ahead of time to lock in the current price.
Super surprised that Magic Kingdom does not draw that many more people than Disneyland! That's crazy to me. Larger park, more international travelers, pre and post cruise folks...
Since Disney took away my DAS pass I’m wondering if I ever go back to Disneyland and I buy Genie + would I be in the same problem if I just went. We’re a family of 7 so Genie + gets very expensive for a weeks stay. This is just getting too much for an average family.
Epcot and Universal Hollywood's huge increases are probably due to big new attractions launching. DCA didnt have that. My guess would be maybe this is showing an increase in people doing mutiday vacations to the resort over single day visits and magic keys
This data doesn't take in to account repeat visits. In other words, I go to Disneyland then hop over to DCA back to Disneyland and back to Disneyland. They will count me as two people instead of one person. Another inaccuracy is the turnstile count. I've seen cast members spin the turnstile many many many many times when no one has gone through before me. I'd take all this with many grains of salt.
I’m coming out in Oct from MD. I’d pay $50 for a universal style fast pass. I paid $125 when we went to universal. I’m only there 3 days, I don’t want to spend it in lines.
I was told by a disney cast member I cannot buy an LL before I get to the park or my discount ticket will revert to the cost of the day ticket when I enter ??
I feel like they missed an opportunity for “Hungry Bear-B-Que”
Seriously! We need this name more!
PERFECT!! I will only call it the Hungry Bear-B-Que, for ever!!
Sounds like you’re going to be eating the bears
We used to go to Disneyland 5-6 times a year, but now with all the line jumping programs, we only go about once very couple years. Way too much “being on the phone” time to be able to really enjoy the vibe of the park.
I don't mind being on the phone. It's a lot better than racing all over the parks to get paper passes then come BACK to those locations again later. It's much faster, and one less trip per attraction, now. But of course there are all the standby and value conversations I agree with from David here.
Same here and not as excited about going with them changing all the past stuff.
I was in park recently and I overheard a guest say the last time her & her family were at the parks was 7 years ago because of the pricing & this is their recent trip in 7 years
@CUTravel1st then you don't understand the original purpose or mission statement for the disney parks. Walt said, as long as there is imagination disneyland will never be finished. He wanted it to change and progress to draw more people, to adapt to new films the company needed to promote or celebrate.
@@darkandstormymama I will kinda disagree with you. Walt always had certain things in the parks and movies and this new Disney does none of that. Walt always had things from the past in the park. Lessons to learn in a fun way for children. The new Disney doesn’t care. They don’t care about family’s or life as in the last case of the lady who died. They want money. I bet there will be more shops and restaurants than rides. In the end they will lose attraction from what they have said. It’s also about expensive. The rivers take more money to upkeep. That’s the main reason they’re doing it. They have room to build.
Epcot’s 19% increase is 100% attributed to Cosmic Rewind. I am a WDW local and go 2-3 times/week to go on that ride and leave!
Before covid-1984, Disneyland had Max Pass. It started at $10/day or $75/yr for AP holders. In January of 2020, it was $20/day. While you still had to select rides and wait to book additional rides in between, if you wanted to ride Space Mountain 4x that day, you could. Now, we're paying a minimum of $30/day ($25 is looong gone) for a far inferior product. I'm guessing that this Premier LL, might be a renamed Max Pass. They have the technology (DAS) and like you've said, most people don't like MPLL. Thanks for the info!
Avengers Campus opened at DCA in 2021 (last time I was there), Sanfransocio opened in 2023 so combined that explains the increase at DCA; I was in WDW in 2022 and yeah the hours that AK are open definitely shows why the attendance dropped there, I mean why have night time experiences (like in Pandora) and not be open when it's dark
I thought you could do Pandora at night? Wow, that's crazy if you can't. I mean I get closing down things like the Safari and all of that at night, and it's probably nice they don't have roller coasters going in the night to freak out the animals, but yeah. That's crazy
@@Mike__B i think cause animal kingdom typically closes early like 6-8pm so its pretty much impossible to see avatar at night except in the winter when it gets dark early i guess
As a guest who visits from out of state, and not being able to get to Disneyland as often as our family would like, lightning lane is horrible. We travel with 5 people and stay for 5 days. If we choose to do lightning lane, it adds several hundred dollars to the cost of our already very expensive vacation. I know we can choose not to upgrade or just buy it for a day or two but so many of the standby lines are miserable. We used to go every year. We LOVE Disneyland but now we can only afford to go every few years at the most. 😢
Cut a day or 2 and get multi pass. You’d get all the rides in and the multi pass would be paid for with the hotel and food savings from the shorter vacation
I feel the price will be worse in the future because of all the new attractions.
35:39 the only fries I remember getting at Disney was when McDonald's was in Disneyland. There was the fry cart near Big Thunder and DCA near what is now Goofy's Sky School was basically an in-park McDonald's. Clearly loosing McDonald's fries was a loss. Fond memories of that fry cart.
AECOM does not publish official figures. They guesstimate, ask the parks if it’s within a certain margin, and will rinse and repeat until they arrive at a number the parks are comfortable with having published. This was covered quite extensively in an old interview on Season Pass Podcast.
Disneyland was so much better in the days when you just showed up and let the park itself decide your day. No reservations, no pre-booking, no virtual queues, no return times. It was just a better experience to see where the day would take you. Its too stressful now. You can hardly do anything impromptu.
you can do everything impromptu, lightning lane is optional
I literally just did that this week, for the first time ever. Usually I plan like crazy but this time we just did whatever appealed in the moment. And I rode all my must rides, ate all the food I hoped to find and only used my phone for pictures and mobile ordering (which saved so much needless standing). I barely even took pictures. You absolutely can go and not worry about your phone or timing or schedules and have fun
@@darkandstormymama thanks for sharing that. I have wondered if it was still something that was possible.
@candlelady3313 I didn't think it was possible, but I am glad I tried it. Hands down the best trip I have ever taken and I've been to both coasts alot
So so true! It was what made it so magical ❤
Disneyland Paris has "Premier Access" for $100-200 per day per person. It allows you to use the lightening lane at anytime on any ride, once a day. Since they are using the same lingo, my bet would be on that, as it would give them another premium revenue stream.
@@kyledennis1082 in other words they are double selling you a ticket to have access to the attractions in the park. It’s becoming an elitist activity to go to a Disney park.
And in DLP you can purchase individual lightning lanes for a larger number of rides than in the US
Fastpass+ was free and it didn’t have these negative effects on standby.
So, what you're saying is... fastpass isn't a problem, it's the money that causes the long lines?
@@WindowtotheMagic Well, from what I understand, 60% of the LL line was being used by DAS guests. I think when FP was free, it was a little more spread out. Also, with FP, you could book the same attraction more than once so a lot of people would run through Haunted Mansion and Pirates multiple times and stay out of some of the other attraction lines. I think it's a combination of things...not paying for the service lowers your expectations of how many lines you can cut and how short the lines should be. If you can grab a couple free fast passes in the day, you feel like it was a free bonus - not something you paid for that didn't deliver results.
Our friends who used to regularly go to WDW aren't going at all anymore. They are going to international trips instead. The LL and crowds at WDW are too much. And it costs the same to travel to other countries.
It’s crazy how terrible lightning lane is. I was just at Disneyland last night and saw how much that system affects the lines.
I got in queue for Indiana jones with an advertised wait of 45 min. The lightning lane queue was full and we were at a dead stop for maybe 15 minutes and quickly realized cast members were just trying to empty the lightning lane queue. Once they were gone it took 10 minutes to enter the temple and another 5 to board the ride. Once we got off since there was no more lightning lane users in the queue. The standby went from a 45 min line to 15.
It’s insane how badly this terrible service affects the parks!
Was this Sunday evening?
@@WindowtotheMagic yes it was!
Around 8:30 PM. Got in line it was a 45 min advertised wait. It took only 30, but for 10 minutes the line didn’t move cuz cast members emptied lighting lane, after that we were on the ride 15 minutes after. Once we got off the ride, the advertised wait time was 15 min😂
The last time I saw Disneyland truly busy was, New Year Eve 2019. I think the paused to gate briefly. It was so packed. Then a short time later.... During covid and after I will always remember that night it was wonderful to see so many people in Disneyland. During covid I knew we will never see crowds like this again.
Disneyland at 47k average per. day. I remember pre-2020, 50k was a number I was hearing. With max. at 70-80k. I do recall a handful of time the gate was paused.
It’s pretty bad when buying a ticket into the park is now a “second class citizen” for standby. It’s Disney creating issues to turn around with a solution for a cost. I think it’s terrible!!
And it may come back to bite them when only the “1st class” are the only ones going anymore.
And name ONE OTHER THEME PARK that has done this long before Disney. Even Legoland did this like 10 years ago. But let’s rag on Disney without knowing the facts first.
@FunAtDisney we rag because Disneyland is $100s more to just get in than those places!! KEEP UP RICHY RICH!!!!!
@@Chili327 That's what they want. They don't want the "2nd class" guests attending. They want those people who are going to spend the money on food, merch, and other experiences for multiple days at a time, (i.e. the people who are going to the parks for multiple days once a year or even once in their lifetime). They don't want the average, everyday locals who hold Magic Keys in the parks because we go, we might ride a couple of rides, we might get a snack, and once every two or three trips we might buy some merchandise. They have actually come out and said they don't want DLR to be a "local's resort", which it is when compared to WDW. It likely always will be, no matter what they try. But I sincerely hope you're right and I hope it does indeed come back to bite them, and I hope it bites them sooner rather than later.
@@toddreed5799disneyland has enough out of town attendance it hasn’t been primarily a locals park for decades
A magic pass with no reservations would be ideal. I’m a tourist now so I don’t mind reservations because when I’m on vacation I plan out my time anyway. No big deal. But when I was a local I would have hated reservations. Just showing up randomly at the end of a rough day is one of the biggest highlights of the magic key (or just “annual pass” at the time)
I cannot stand Lightening Lane. I know Disney will never get rid of it with it being such a cash cow, but it is horrible for the average guest experience.
But you do not have to use it -- Right? This skip-the-line system goes back to the old Fast Pass days when you had to walk all the way over to that ride to get it, then it was on the app, then you had the free FP or the paid MaxPass, then these other name changes.Same for Disney World (which was and still is better)) But you have never had to use them.
@@FunAtDisney you are correct, I don’t have to use it or purchase it. My point is that this system very much negatively impacts the experience that other guests have. I am sorry you are not capable of seeing that.
@@ScanFan_Ed But every themepark has a similar set up. Legoland has a 3-tier system. I think $25, $50 and $100 + standby and they started that years ago. Universal system (which I like) can be up to $250 in Florida. But if Disney World did that-- They would get shit on for it! It’s just the way it is - But for some reason people go after Disney for doing the same. It’s like the whole DAS Pass thing that Disney just updated. Nobody bothers to do 5-1/2 minutes of research to find Universal, Knott’s etc. have the same system.
YES! Hate it. Did I mention I hate it?
@@justimagine2403 What would you rather have instead? I’m not being sarcastic - Just curious. I have gone to Disneyland for decades and yes it was much easier back in the day just to walk up to an attraction and wait. But….Sometimes that could be for a long time (Space Mountain in its early days when I was a CM could get up to 3 hours!). And I do recall we use to kid it would be nice to make reservations for rides like you did for restaurants (Blue Bayou being the only one back then).
The new Hungry Bear menu looks awesome! I prefer the quick service prices and convenience and this looks like one of the best quick service I've seen.
Yes, Universal Express is more, but it includes park entrance, unless you get the upgrade. Also, you just go to the line and scan in your pass for each ride that takes the pass. You don't need to join a queue or reservation. Overall, it can be more expensive than Disney a lot of the time, but I like how it works better than Disney. Either way, both are bad for people in the standby lines.
David, I am waiting for Epic Universe to open before I go again, have been since it was announced. I’m from Australia so it’s an expensive once every few years trip. Maybe some from the UK are in the same boat?
Let me preface this by saying I love Disneyland and grew up as a Inland Empire local attending the park pretty regularly in my teens and after. I’m 58 and have visited MANY times as an out of towner. I have special childhood memories with my mom who is now passed. I’ve brought my kids, dragged my husband and come when I was 7 mos pregnant for a wedding anniversary. I love Main Street and all it has to offer. I’ve done my best to Disneyland indoctrinate my kids so they can remember those fun times. But I believe they have finally priced me out. When a pricey all inclusive ticket is purchased you shouldn’t have to buy another ticket, which is a healthy percentage cost of the original ticket to ride an (1) attraction. In some areas of business it’s referred to as “double dipping”. The loop hole Disney has here is the original purchase leaves you in the secondary or standby line. You’re not forced to purchase LL but Disney certainly takes a stab at making you feel less than after you’ve spent a lot of money on their premier park. I do understand creativeness and Imagineering at the level Disney does it is expensive. It alway has been. Walt’s dream was about parents having a place they and their children could go together and play. A place to create those happy memories. I have to wonder what his take on this would be. Lately they’ve been just nickel and diming all they can out of the guest. Any ”jump the line” premier ticket at ANY park is going to slow the flow of the original line. The average family doesn’t have $100-$200 per person per day to spend on rides AGAIN, as opposed to feeding that same family on vacation. If you don’t have those worries I’m truely happy for you. But I think most families trying to stay out of vacation debt are concerned about every penny spent. So I’m grateful for people like Dave and the way he presents the park so I can get my Disney fix. ❤ Thanks Dave for Fresh Baked. (Now don’t get me started on the changes to DAS!)😱😳😊
Animal Kingdom numbers explained: Avatar opened, and created a huge lift seen in the 2019 numbers. It's not new anymore, and the hours are weird. No major new attractions since Pandora. So it's falling. Will see a lift with Tropical Americas.
Hollywood Studios is more surprising given it has had more new attractions lately.
EPCOT also had Ratatouille and Frozen added in that time, so 3 major E-ticket attractions with those and Guardians. Makes sense.
after having never been to DL (i’m 73) i’ve gone 5 times in the past 3 years. Won’t be going back. Too expensive, too crowded, too complicated.
Well, since the average person visits Disneyland 3.5 times in their life, you have gone more than most, so you're ahead of the game.
Hinestly, i REALLY like they way Magic Mountain does their Flash Pass. They have 3 tiers.
Lowest Tier you reserve the return time at whatever the posted wait time is. This lets you join another que while waiting in the virtual line.
Medium Tier costs more and cuts the virtual wait time by 50% of whatever the posted wait time is. This is good because you walk to a lot of rides and get there by the time it is ready or very close to it on regular days.
Highest Tier costs the most and cuts the wait time by 90% of whatever the wait time is. This is fantastic because there is almost no waiting and every ride is a basic walk on.
All 3 tiers can only hold 1 reservation at a time.
I can see people waiting to go to Universal until Epic Universe opens. Not everyone can afford to go every year. My family is lucky if we get to go every 5 years, and that's with saving and really cutting back on expenses. We have something go wrong and that extends when we can go again. I can absolutely see people saving up to go to Epic when it opens, especially after they announced how you would actually get a ticket for Epic Universe.
Avenger's Campus wasn't open yet in DCA in 2019, so the Park added a land. And for Epcot, Remi's wasn't open yet in 2019 and Cosmic Rewind opened in Mid 2022. So thats why those parks have recovered/increased their occupancy so well. Those are the parks with new attractions. You will see an increase in MK from 23-24 since TRON opened in 23.
Actually no. MK attendance is way down. The reason Epcot is showing an increase is because they are still using the partial shutdown attendance as a basis of comparison.
I hope you’re right about lighting lane premier pass. I’ve said a million times I hope they change to universal style. Their bottom line would be the same. But the impact to the guests would be so much less. It would be much more valuable for LL also, they’d actually get to the front, change it to a $100+ system!
i guess i won't be going to Disneyland ever again its been over 20 years since i was at Disneyland but i love your videos David fresh baked
in the days of maxpass for $10 per guest per day, we were all over it. it totally changed how we planned our days and allowed us to ride much more. that was a game changer. i still pay for genie+/llmp because we can only get to the parks once every few years, but it makes me groan about the extra cost, esp. given that the tickets are so much more expensive now. premier pass? no way! it already kills me financially to visit the parks. however, if they get rid of llmp and only offer pp, i would skip getting pp and stand in line with the 98% of guests who would then be in standby, like at universal. thanks for this discussion, dave.
The decrease at Universal and Islands of Adventure in Orlando is almost certainly people waiting for Epic Universe to open.
As a guest who only gets to go to Disneyland once a year I would absolutely pay extra to be able to pre-book my lightning lanes for certain times. It would be far less stressful for me to know my kids would be able to ride Radiator Springs Racers and to ensure we get the nighttime Small World ride during Christmas time when it's all lit up. Sorry if I'm part of the problem, but don't live close enough to go whenever so when we go we want to make sure we get it all in.
Couple options I see added beyond early booking, picking exact times etc. One is letting you get lightening lanes with the Premier pass on rides no one else can. Perhaps like a new attraction is Premier pass only for the first month or something. Maybe even being able to just have flat out unlimited "lightening lanes" in a day, any ride. Just constantly walk on to the rides for something like $200 per person.
The worst is when you pay for Lightning Lane and they run out of spots for it on the popular rides. So I have paid for a service they oversell. This happens all the time in Florida. Would really hate to see that happen in California :(
I am SO EXCITED for the hungry bear BBQ! My 7 year old son asks for ribs everytime we go to Disney but they only had them seasonally at paradise garden grill. So much easier and cheaper in a kids meal!
Avengers Campus opened in 2021 so thats one BIG addition that wasnt there in 2019
Less of an addition and more of a reskin. 😢
@@kentslocumas someone who never visited bugs land, it doesn’t feel like a reskin at all
@@caseypenk Glad you couldn't tell it was a reskin! Some parts are more lazy than others. For example, the restrooms and the building for the Spider-man attraction are repurposed. But the Avengers building, Pym Test Kitchen, and the Sanctum are built from the ground up. Guess I'm just upset at the lack of shade in Avengers Campus.
The only way we are able to add it on prior to the parks is if you order through Get away and you have to pay for all days, not only one or two. We also we not able to book anything ahead of time.
We have skipped and paid if we needed it, and we then last year we booked all 5 days with Genie Plus, and it was great. It was at the start of the holiday season.
We got the Genie + for our tickets we have now, I assume they will change to multi pass or give us a refund.
I wish we could book our LLMP ahead if time and what time we ride.
Planning goes out the window.
We just went with the Genie plus flow. It worked out well.
Agree, don’t want the prebook LL thing at Disneyland. Is another possibility that the premier pass lets you ride attractions multiple times with return times for about $50? That would be better.
I am super excited about that BBQ menu. However, I would love for Disney to add "Dirty Rice" to that BBQ menu.
Sadly, the worst that could happen is charging $400 per person per day.
Maybe it's the Halloween parties since they moved over to DCA? Those should be additional numbers on top of the daily attendance.
I visited Disneyland and Disneyworld last year and I am from New Zealand. It cost thousands to get there and back home and I used the Genie + and lightning lane at both parks and whilst I do not like they make you pay more to get on a ride faster, I wouldn't have got on nearly as many rides without it and I am not sure when I will get back again so for me, personally, it was worth it and for international travelers who may only visit once e very 4 / 5 / 10 years, I would recommend spending the extra. That might be who the Premier pass is aimed it, those of us that can't get there often but want to see as much of the parks as possible in as little time as possible. Cause when we are spending thousands just to get there, we will pay more to do as much as possible.
I think Universal Hollywood did better in 2023 due to the addition of Super Nintendo World. The rest of the park really isn't too busy there, but SNW is always packed. I am excited for the menu at Hungry Bear. I have never eaten there because nothing on the menu looked appetizing or worth the cost. I will definitely try it now.
THe Premier Pass in Tokyo I believe are not for a specific time but for anytime during the day. They are also part of staying at a Tokyo Disneyland hotel and get a package.
Unfortunatly the Disney guest resilience is what gives Disney the confidence to raise prices, expand LL, and keep reservations.
If we came to Disneyland on a vacation, or Disney World - Heck yes we would par $125 or more. When we went to Disney World in 2022, and then a couple days at Universal we were going to get that Universal Unlimited Express pass for about $200 per day for the 3 of us. We ended up upgrading to one of their Deluxe hotels were that was included for all of us (the room was about $250 more per night, but that that was better than $600 per day for those passes).
The world already has huge income disparity and hollowing out of the middle class; we don't need Disney treating people differently based on their income once they've purchased theme park admission! 😢
Defunctland talked about how genie+ would make standby a nightmare and he was right. As a magic key holder ive learned how to maximize ride time a lot, but wouldnt mind doing unlimited guardians break out. Its my my favorite ride of all
This is why I prefer land over world! Prebooking FP is the most annoying thing.
That's true. Super annoying. I went to WDW recently and I HATED knowing that I had a confirmed ride on things. It was awful being able to plan my day and to schedule things when they worked for me. Let's return to the days of not being sure of anything!
For most, a trip to Orlando Is A once or maybe twice in a lifetime thing. Others May visit once every 5 or 10 years. So it makes perfect sense that people would wait until epic universe is completed to visit florida. That should go a long ways to explain lower occupancy and not only Universal Parks but also Disney parks located in Florida. I think Disney knows this and is expecting a bump in business with the opening of Epic universe . That's one reason why they haven't been too concerned with the new park and why only now are they making announcements for new attractions that would be complete a couple of years after at epic universe opens.
My husband and mom took me to Universal Studios Hollywood back in January of 2020 for my 50th birthday and they purchased the Universal Express Pass and it was worth it. We just wanted to have a chill day and having the pass made it so we could go on the rides whenever we wanted to. No planning was great. If Disneyland did something like that (where we could go on each lightening lane ride once, any time we wanted), we would definitely purchase it. But I have to mention that we only go to Disneyland about every 5 years for our anniversary. (it takes us that long to save up enough money)
They do it at Disney World because so many guests are from out of town staying for multiple days. They took it away for awhile and not it’s just back. I don’t think it will work here. Lot more locals who are way too savvy to do that. Ability to to book 1-3 attractions in advance isn’t worth it. And we are nowhere near as crazy crowded as Disney World.
The lightning lane system may not be the best, but there is nothing wrong with the concept of a fast lane. Every park has it. Some people can’t or don’t want to waste their time waiting in lines all day and are willing to spend extra to avoid it. We are not rich but we don’t go to Disneyland unless we can afford the tickets and the lightning lane.
exactly, $30 per day is not unreasonable or high. that’s a third the cost of universal studios hollywood premier access
Can we just go back to everyone waiting on the same line? Why should rich people get any type of advantage. All of this is stupid beyond belief.
Because it makes Disney money. Thats all
@@ryanlavalleyep, bottom line.
You do know every other theme park did this long before Disney- Right?
@@ryanlavalle
Then let Disney just increase the price of the ticket 5 or 10 dollars if they need the money that bad, and treat everyone the same.
@@FunAtDisneythose parks are also $$$$$ less!!!! And only have rides to be entertained so a fast pass is way more logical.
It’s not talked about that much, but MaxPass was actually a significantly better system for the user and the park as a whole. Would love to see them somehow go back to that and make it an add on for AP’s
There are only two non-monetary differences between MaxPass and Genie+/LLMP: Being able to use it on the same ride multiple times per day and the number of return times booked per hour. The part of the post-pandemic system that's causing the problems is the inflated number of return times. Disneyland spent years finding the balance for FastPass return times (including some work-arounds where return-times would be removed when breakdowns happened) that kept the standby queue flowing and freed up guests (on average: those who didn't use FastPass at all lost time) to spend more time outside of the queues, which resulted in increased overall guest satisfaction and an increase in daily guest spending. Had Genie+ been simply a paid version of that, there would have been some grumbling about FastPass becoming paid-only, but people would have eventually just treated it like all the other price increases.
What Genie+ broke was that in order to have more product (the service is the product) to sell, they increased the number of return times per hour, which means that even Lightning Lane users now spend longer in line than people did in the old FastPass queue and the Standby queue spends long periods at a total stop. This results in more total time spent in queues per guest on average and leads to a drop in merchandise sales and guest satisfaction. Management actively chose to harm the rest of the park to make the new service a massive revenue source. They can claim big sales numbers and high revenue numbers to the shareholders from the massive sale of Genie+, even if there might have been more total profit park-wide and better long-term word-of-mouth if they had set the Genie+ sale limit lower per day. And the damage won't be seen for a while. I took my eldest niece to Disneyland last year and the three younger ones (ages 9 through 11) were crying because they thought they would be forced to go. They hated the trip their parents took them on in 2022 so much due to the massive wait times that the mere idea of going was upsetting to them, but the shareholders are blinded by "big Genie+ numbers" so the company is pushing harder for it.
I seriously hope that whatever Permiere Pass ends up in Disneyland, it isn't what WDW Fastpass+/current LL is, because that system is a seriously bad system. Back in 2017 (my last WDW visit) not only did FP+ had an absurd ratio, so much that in Pirates at Magic Kingdom we waited standing still for a long time in stand by when it shouldn't be like this (back in 2010, we did Pirates standby, and it was only at most a 10-minute wait). When we went for the first time at Disneyland with my family last year, I did purchase LL for all 3 of us, and it worked wonderfully, mind you, we did experience the ugly side of a long standby for Runaway Railway (it was still an additional purchase then) but for the other rides, not only we did a mix of standby and LL when we wanted it, but since not all rides in DL use LL, it helps with making the lines shorter compared to the mess they have in Orlando (helps that in DL, you can only start booking LL when you enter the park, so the availability is the same as in the old paper system in theory). At the end of the day, who knows what this will be ending up as, maybe just divide which rides get Premiere Pass, like a rebranding for the LL in Rise or the Resistance and Radiator Springs Racers or just to consolidate what Disneyland Paris and Tokyo use for their skip the line services (that also use Premiere in their wording).
Avengers Campus opened in 2021 at California Adventure. That might explain the attendance bump.
I think Premier is going to allow you to book like the old fast pass + two premier rides at one time.
If I was going to guess what premier pass might be, I’d guess it just includes the rides that currently you have to purchase separately- so that it is inclusive of all rides.
My thoughts: Animal Kingdom was probably up because of Pandora opening in 2017. The years after that were up because of interest, until the pandemic. DCA and EPCOT have the "festivals", with lots of alcohol flowing. I don't drink, but most of my friends with passes frequent DCA because they can easily get alcohol. They avoid DL because they "can't deal with the people and lines without their alcohol". There's also the addition of new rides in EPCOT and DCA with Avenger's Campus opening. Universal Hollywood is probably up because of AP/MK's leaving Disney and going to Universal for less expensive fun. The new Hungry Bear menu looks interesting to me, but my family has severe dietary restrictions, and this new menu looks like my family won't be able to dine there, giving us yet another restaurant we won't be able to eat at.
I don’t get why during the week, M-Th could they do like WDW and have the opportunity to enter the park without a reservation after 4 pm? I would love to be spontaneous again…
I don’t get why during the week, M-Th, you don't just make a reservation and visit. MOST days are available, most weeks. Heck, I could even get a reservation for today RIGHT NOW. I just checked.
Read the last line above… we go about once a week…
One month ago, "Is it worth it for people it to spend 125 dollars to get unlimited lightning lane?". One month later, "Disney release new Premiere pass, not to get unlimited, but to get 1 ride per day lightning lane for...... 400 dollars." haha. This is getting crazy!
The biggest difference between Universal vs. disney is 200$, which is the park ticket and the express disney with park hopper+ Fast pass is literally well over 300$ b4 you even step foot in the park
Maybe premier pass would be for hotel guests - which they should do in my opinion. We have had so many rides closed on early entry - and I can tell you that in my experience the early entry is not much of a benefit. The Disneyland hotels are so much more expensive than other hotels - and Disney world hotel guests are now getting a pre-booking benefit. The Disneyland hotels are not a compelling value proposition.
Hey Dave, does the attendance data factor in people leaving and coming back into parks? Or park hopping? Is the data based on tickets sales only or an absolute number just based on “turnstiles”?
They should do a LL and a LL+ where the LL package works like the existing multi pass, and the LL+ Includes the fancy rides as well and maybe multiple bookings for the same attractions.
For me as a overseas guest I get the option to add genie plus when buying tickets. We often gets sales with it for free to
I do think capacity is lower than it was before even FastPass but standby lines are so artificially high now with all the incentive to make them higher.
I really don't want pre-booking lighting lane to come to Disneyland. I only come once a year if I'm lucky. I do use lightning lane but I like to have the ability to decide what we are doing when we are there. Base it on ride closures and what else is going on in the park. Currently planning our first trip to DisneyWorld and it's so stressful that I'm going to have to pre-booking rides.
Yes. Agree.
Wonder how the can offer pre booking when rides are down so often. Can’t even guarantee it’s there at open
pre booking is the only way to manage the chaos, otherwise you are on your phone the entire day
Disney World already does this now to pre-book rides when they renamed everything to Lightning Lane Multipass, if they wanted to do this with Disneyland why didn't they do it at the same time they renamed Genie+ to Lightning Lane Multipass at Disneyland? Or if Disneyland is planning to switch to pre-book your rides, just call it Lightning Lane Multipass? It doesn't make sense to call it something else if this is their intention. If Premier Pass works like Express Pass would be a good idea but it might cut into their VIP Tours? VIP Tours really only get you immediate access to the Lightning Lane, so if Premier Pass did the same I'm not sure it would make sense either unless their VIP Tour started taking you through the exit or something for immediate access to the ride.
As a Magic Key holder though you should hope that Disneyland doesn't implement the Disney World system as right now WDW Annual Passholders get horrible availability for Lightning Lanes unless they are staying at a Disney hotel. We can only book a single day 3-days in advance too, so if you are going multiple days in a row, you still have to wake up at 7am everyday, just 3 days earlier than your vacation. Its worse if you're going with friends who have tickets since you can't match up Lightning Lane times either. The Genie+ system (and the system Disneyland still has) worked much better in this respect.
What if Premier Pass is actually just a Magic Key addon that gives you Lightning Lane Multipass all year long similar to how they had that option for MaxPass? Or it could be nothing and just another name for Lightning Lane Multipass they were testing before they decided on Lightning Lane Multipass.
I wonder if they do something like Universal and just getting rid of Genie + LL. Standard Queue and Premier queue. I could see that being good for the parks honestly.
I like in Florida you can say pick mermaid for 330. Buzz for 515 and Peter Pan for 655. Once you use one you book another. So you have a choice of setting up your day how you want to
I’m not much of fan of Lightning Lane as well. I feel before Covid when every one had fast lane with their ticket purchase was a better system. That was better handled than the lightning lane. I go alone a lot to Disneyland and I feel they should have more single rider rides at the park. Do you think they will bring single rider to Rise of the Resistance to Disneyland? I know they started that system at Hollywood Studios in Florida.
Considering how often the rides break down, what's the point of reserving in advance and then wreck your schedule when and not if the rides go down?
Disneyland Paris already have Premier Access which is similar to Universal Express. They have the 1 time 1 attraction version and the 1 time each attraction (ultimate) version. Ultimate costs >$100 like Universal.
If Disney must have a skip the line buy up, I think Disney should adopt something similar to Universal's express pass. It is wildly expensive, which means that far less people use it, which would unclog stand by a lot.
We don't ride much anyway at this point.
USH hit it out of the park with SNW. Not surprised at all. I agree that DCA is up because of the reservation system.
I'm 50/50 on Hungry Bear. It's great that they'll be getting a new menu and excited for some of the items, but now our favorite chill spot will likely be super busy.
I think the higher one with better benefits would be best option. Reduce LL's impact on standby and make it more of a deal like other theme parks. I think u mentioned something like this before about it being too low in price and that's why LL lines impact everyone else so much.
Disney does not want to offer a Universal system because they can sell more LL at that cheaper price
Could premier pass be access to mutlipass LL with access to Rise and Radiator Springs? Basically get rid of individual LL?
I know that you can already choose to add on the Lightning Lane in advance to your single day park tickets. Maybe that's a new branding for it?
Disney would never do this, but maybe lightning lane premium becomes the paid lightning lane and lightning lane becomes free (included with the park tickets). This would be the same setup as fast pass and fast pass plus except all done in the app. There would additional perks for the premium. One can hope.
I hate the post fast pass system. Some might say I may be a connoisseur of hating Lightning Lane.
But let me tell you. I just went to Six Flags Magic Mountain last Saturday and my goodness. That flash pass system was never used because it's $150 for ONE DAY!
But yeah Six Flags has a very different way of working. In particular, the way that the workers move guests on rides. If a guest has the highest teir fast pass ($275) they just get first dibs on where to sit on a ride. And they don't direct the other guests where to sit. So if you pick say the front row with your family of 4, like I did on Tatsu, you might (I did) have to wait for two trains to cycle just for the Flash Pass guests to go through!
And two trains may not feel like a long time, but with no cast members directing guests, loading and offloading can take so long!
It feels intentional to pressure guests into buying the Flash Pass. But it makes me realize that Disney is a fantastic value compared to what other companies may be using. It sucks that Disney started to follow these predatory practices. And it does scare me that they may follow deeper into these strategies.
Do you think the DCA numbers have to deal with people needing to make a reservation at DCA if there are none left at Disneyland? Then people park hop over.
Got my grand son the $100 pass at Knotts. That was so worth it. He rode ghost rider 3 times and others of his favorite multiple times. I hate Genie+. It has ruined the park for the average park goer. There is now 2 classes of guests_very sad! I won’t ever do the Knotts pass again but I don’t think it affected the standby as very few passes were sold that day.
I always purchase Genie+ and Parking beforehand. One less thing to have to do when I get to the park. I don’t have to think about it, it’s already done. I’m buying it regardless. I’m picking my first pass while someone else is checking out.
I love lightning lane because my partner is disabled but in a way that it’s hard to prove to the actual parks that standing that long causes a lot of pain. Getting to move through shorter lines and then take breaks is wonderful and worth the money.
I go once a year and i'm a DVC member, And I 1000% would pay extra to have one day where I didn't have to wait in the line and just gotta go, right to the front. I would not do it for every day of my trip but I definitely would do it for 1 of the days of my trips
The Figment popcorn bucket from many visitors to the Food and Wine perhaps. Then there is a possibility of bad weather, rain storms.
Really interesting on the "rumor" and the data 👀 thank you for providing ❤ the update to Hungry Bear looks great and I'm so excited for it
Lightning Lane Multipass costs $35/person/day now, not $25. When we went last year, it was going up to $30 but we got a deal when we went through Getaway Today and got the $25 price. So it can be beneficial to get it ahead of time to lock in the current price.
Super surprised that Magic Kingdom does not draw that many more people than Disneyland! That's crazy to me. Larger park, more international travelers, pre and post cruise folks...
Since Disney took away my DAS pass I’m wondering if I ever go back to Disneyland and I buy Genie + would I be in the same problem if I just went. We’re a family of 7 so Genie + gets very expensive for a weeks stay. This is just getting too much for an average family.
I think Animal Kingdom will pick up again when the new area replacing Dino land starts opening up.
Epcot and Universal Hollywood's huge increases are probably due to big new attractions launching. DCA didnt have that. My guess would be maybe this is showing an increase in people doing mutiday vacations to the resort over single day visits and magic keys
This data doesn't take in to account repeat visits.
In other words, I go to Disneyland then hop over to DCA back to Disneyland and back to Disneyland.
They will count me as two people instead of one person.
Another inaccuracy is the turnstile count.
I've seen cast members spin the turnstile many many many many times when no one has gone through before me.
I'd take all this with many grains of salt.
I’m coming out in Oct from MD. I’d pay $50 for a universal style fast pass. I paid $125 when we went to universal. I’m only there 3 days, I don’t want to spend it in lines.
I was told by a disney cast member I cannot buy an LL before I get to the park or my discount ticket will revert to the cost of the day ticket when
I enter ??
Is dca cheaper than disneyland in terms of tickets? Just wondering if that's why attendance is higher?
Nope but it does serve alcohol which I think attracts more locals in the evening.
You can currently buy multipass on multi day tickets for Disneyland.
While I miss Max Pass, I HAVE to do LL because I live out of state and can’t risk the family missing out.