At 10.38 you got whistle sound because your CUTOFF FREQUENCY MODULATION seems wasn't at zero. Because my K-2 sounds identical to MS20 in this video, however if i increase EG2/EXT impact i hear that whistle sound
Thank you for making this. I been wanting an MS20 for way way too long and I am finally at the point where I can afford one without painful sacrifice. 🥰🥳🔊🔊🔊🔊 Trying to decide if I buy the Behringer and Kobal expander and the arturia microfreak or if I buy only one expensive thing.
Although the MS20 was originally sold as a "research synth", most people bought it to produce music and as such, don't spend all their time looking at spectrum analysers or comparing two synths. You could even find greater differences between 2 MS20s depending on their age and use. The 2 are, to all intents and purposes, identical. The same effect occurs with the Minimoog and the Model D. Its mostly about snobbery and "look at me, I have a £3,500 Minimoog and not just a £300 Behringer." If you use them to play and record music, nobody will know what you are playing.
... that’s sort of the point if these. Showing the differences are minor (and proving it).... but if something is sold as a clone and doesn’t come close then this cuts through the marketing. The sounds at the end show that in context ie playing something musical with some FX - no one could pick one for the other in a blind test, or in a track.
It's an interesting one. The minimoog vs the model d it's kind of a no brainer since the minimoog is so much more. This one though, there is a difference in sound, to me the ms20 has more drive to the filter and a more rounded eq, the behringer slightly more harsh in the upper mids. Given the korg is already a rework of the original and comparatively only 50% more in price than the behringer there's a bit more of a decision to be made. I agree in a mix you probably wouldn't know the difference but, to me anyway, the behringer is slightly second best. Btw have nothing against behringer, have their neutron synth and several other bits and pieces, this opinion is purely from my ears not my head or indeed heart. Nice vid btw, thank you for taking the time to make.
@@3phaseBerlin The Korg ms20 mini does sound bad compared to the old ms20 and the full scale ms20 and ms20m. But your other argument is not very true. I had several ms10s and several ms20s and their differences were really audible. I preferred my first ms10. When I listen to my old recordings I can hear which one was used.
Love Behringer for what it does, but really the 2 are not identical. There are sounds that I can only make on the mini. No matter how I tried couldn t replicate them un k2. They sound very close, but somehow, something it s missing
Great comparison! I do agree, the Korg to my ears sounds a bit fuller. But both are great sounding. Love the space the Behringer saves but I once had the MS-20 mini and loved having the keyboard right there for grabs as you said you do. I think if I went this way again, my space limits would force me to the smaller K2 but I would still desire the Korg.
Behringer was one of the companies that heard my prayers..."Please stop putting keyboards on every synth". I have a large controller, Korg Kontrol49, a Keystep and Beatstep. Thank you Behringer for the Semi-Modulars.
I'm with you. I recently got the Deepmind desktop version, and that sealed it. I want to use any keyboard I want without clobbering all my space for gear. And I REALLY like being able to plop the synth right in front of me with my monitors sitting left/right in their proper positions while I work with my DAW. It might sound petty, but I'm tired of rolling my chair around to different spots and working on a patch - then having to adjust it once I hear everything properly in the sweet spot.
Same here. I've got a Novation Peak lately because I already had an M-Audio Axiom Air 49 Keyboard, which is huge, so there is just no space left for more keyed synths on my desk. Behringer really goes the right way with their semi-modulars!
Bullshit! I am much more creative with synths that have keyboards and I can tweak the sounds while playing and sitting in front of them. So stop your "prayers". Thanks.
Guys I have a simple solution, original ms20 in the studio, gig with the k2...in a giant room with effects you cant tell a difference plus you can rack it and not worry about fucking up a classic
I agree w your end comment that its nice to have the keys, simpler. I have the K2 and when I don't hear notes that I think I'm sending it via MIDI it can be difficult to know where the problem is (and with analog synths like this, it could be any knob or patch responsible for the silence). If Behringer could've just included a LED light to indicating incoming MIDI on the set channel, that'd be super helpful. You can sorta use the EG2 light for this, but I'm not certain that it will always light (when the gate opens) in all circumstances. I suppose Behringer's choice to make it w/o the keys could've been 1) to differentiate from Korg's own remake, have it substantially cheaper 2) Eurorack mounting 3) Poly-chaining. If behringer were clever they'd come up with something like Roland's AK25m set of lil keys for their boutiques, if Behringer could have something that could easily snap on to their eurorack compatible keyless synths....I guess that's the function of some eurorack cases
Very good just got a new K2 for $199 from SW. Now that’s a deal glad I waited 3 years. I was messing with the Arturia MS20 plugin stand alone and liked the sound. Now I have hardware that sounds like an MS20 and your wonderful vid to-boot. Yes even three years later your vid is timeless.
The MS-vibe is definitely present in the K-2. To me the main difference lay in the VCO:s. They are a bit off on the K-2. Not in a bad way at all. Just different from my OG MS-20.
Two details I missed in your nice review: - Besides the desirable MIDI through port the K-2 offers variable MIDI channel setting. - The desired control wheel is easily provided with the ubiquitous Arturia Keystep controller's MOD out (positive voltage only but usually sufficient). Pitch bend works as expected via MIDI.
Thanks very useful. I didn’t mention those because they both can change MIDI channel, and there’s so many ways of controlling via various hardware units I can’t cover them all - so mentioning what is missing helps folks realise they may need a solution, whatever that may be. Keystep is, as you say, a useful addition - unless you want -ve voltages haha ... cheers :)
@@StarskyCarr I am confused by the MIDI thing. I looked into the MS-20 mini manual and it says: only MIDI channel 1 (fixed) for MIDI in and USB. Seemed consistent with what I remember reading on the web. Maybe it's outdated or there's some software workaround?
Just picked up a K2 (for nearly half price, yay!) and it sounds more MS20-like than the demos I've watched. Playing it with other synths like the Neutron and Minibrute, it's "MS20ness" really stands out. I hand't planned on getting one but just grabbed it because the price was too good to pass up... I think it's a keeper. That old-school filter is really addictive.
One of the distinctive features of the MS-20 is the VCA, which iirc uses a single transistor instead of an opamp. So I'd like to hear some exploration of how the two respond to an overdriven sound from a heavily filtered oscillator.
@@AdamTheAd-vanc3d I'll permit myself some needless and I'll informed chin stroking and add that some modern transistors saturate in a very boring fashion, but this could hardly be less interesting than an opamp which will tend to just clip.
glad to see people appreciating the sound of the Korg version. To me its a super weird clone since there is already a great reissue in the MS20. No reason to pick up the K-2 really. Support Korg.
Just my opinion, but I really can't support this kind of behaviour, where Behringer clones something that's manufactured by the original manufacturer and stomps the price. Thus I'm not currently buying anything made by Behringer. Probably doesn't matter to them at all, but that's my own little stand on the matter.
Great video! As an MS-20Kit owner I will look forward to getting a K2 as well. As a Filter 2 devotee I hear something in the MK2 filter that I do not hear in the MS-20kit, I think the Behringer has a formant type high res on the sweep and I can exploit this. Also with similar but not exact tonalities, I think I would experiment with these to paired in a ring modulator, one as carrier, the other modulator- who knows what sounds will present themselves. For the price, I think it will make a nice companion as additional oscillators to my MS-20Kit. One more thing. There was a time I had two MS-20Kits, only 3 numbers apart by serial. With the same settings, they were not identical. This is part of the continuously analog randomness that I have come to love!
Mark---- you may have figured this out already, but your MS-20kit (which I have as well ;) has both filters in in already (mk1 and mk2). The documentation for changing filter on the MS-20Kit states that you have to hold down F#3, G#3, A#3, to select the Mk1 filter and F#3, G#3, B3, to select the Mk2 filter. (This is based on midi notes from a controller...... not the keyboard built into the synth...... so it might take a couple times to get it right!) Definitely opens up a whole additional world of MS Mayhem!!
I have been buying up Behringer clones on synths that are either discontinued or ridiculously expensive, but in this case I went with the Korg MS 20 mini because it's still in product and available for just a bit more...
Great vid. Thanks. I got the MS20 Full Size white with both filters. Just love the Korg MS20 full size. Now for the Korg 80% Odyssey since no full Size is available anymore and quite hard to find the Korg Mini Arp Odyssey. Did look at the Behringer one and like it but the Korg one sounds a bit snappier to me on the adsr and smoother highpass filter.
I would get the K2 becase I can stick in a rack with other Euro rack kit and patch, the MS although mini, is less portable and for the sound difference I prefer the versatility of the K2. As far as originals go, meh? Kudos to behringer for having the nuts to bring these expensive synths to the reguler folks) Great test, thanks for taking the time to demo so we can hear em, that is priceless, thanks Mr Carr
I’ve been playing guitar for 20 odd years, bit of blues bit of rock even a touch of jazz and I’m ok i play just for fun but I’ve developed this absolute obsession for synths over the last year been watching any video I can find it’s like someone said “ this is what you need in your life mate “ 🤔
As far as I know, the Mussolini sound comes from am Odyssey, but Behringer has that synth covered too. Quote by one of the band members: Der Mussolini ist kompletter ARP-Sound. Der Odyssey hatte viel mehr Wumms als der MS-20 (Der Mussolini is complete an ARP-Sound. The Odyssey had much more of a punch than the MS-20.) www.soundandrecording.de/stories/robert-goerl-ueber-das-ist-daf/
I mean.. Close your eyes and tell which one is which also bring in a second MS20 and it would sound different aswell! The Behringer is really nailing the sound.
@@saintzsaintz Also in good earphones, and in person with monitors. I dont know what to tell you but their clones sound pretty much identical to the originals.
I was going to buy the K2 but I saw an MS20 mini for £300 and couldn't resist getting it. I simply like the form factor of it. It's also handy for putting another synth on top.
Nice comparision! I´m a bit surprised and, to be honest, also a bit relieved that the Mini sounds so much fuller to my ears. As a few of you have pointed out: this is a mighty strange choice for a clone.
Awesome mate thanks. I prefer the Korg sound having listened through my headphones. To my ears (and headphones) the Behringer sounds buzzier and, as you said a few times, brighter
Interesting - the Korg gets my vote... but there’s not much in it - more about the keyboard and being slightly larger. It would be a harder decision if I preferred the sound of the K2.
@@StarskyCarr i preferred sound of korg and wrote that comment before i saw conclusion). I though that k2 will be better than mini in terms of sound, but it is not. So i just prefer formfactor of mini and that it is still korg not borg). Anyway thank you for your videos, your channel and sonicstate is all i need)
@@77advanced Well, you have to consider that Hiroaki Nishijima was on the project for the MS-20 mini. That guy is like a nuclear physicist of synthesizers. I've tried selling my MS-20 mini like 1,000 times, but when I play it, I just can't help but love it. (now, if only it was full sized.. -_-)
Hm, I have Korg's ms 20 mini for about 3 years, great synth but the built quality is HORRIBLE, cheap plastic, the knobs are ridiculously fragile and the keyboard looks also pretty fragile to me....on the other side Behringer's synths are very solidly built so...If you want to use it for "domestic use" 😀 the Korg mini is probably ok, but for live shows, tours etc. I would maybe go for K2 because there is not a dramatic difference in sound...to me they both sound great...I am interested how K2 sounds live (thickness of the sound/bass)
To me the K2 sounds better, plus bear in mind you'll have new capacitors on your K2 vs old more 'worn in' caps on the Mini, so really think you should do this test again in a year or two ;)
Behringer is suppose to be bringing these things out and they are suppose to be affordable. But here in Canada they aren’t. This K2 is 600$ not $299. The MS-1 is also $600 not 399$ or whatever, the Odyssey is $850 not $500 and the craziest is the vocoder at $999. I understand currency exchange rates. And I don’t expect them to be the same price here as in Europe or the USA. But it seems that retailers or distributors are inflating prices here. Just needed to get that out there.thanks.
Totally right! Worst, at that times it was well known that even 2 identical synths from same manufacturer did not sound exactly the same because of the component tolerance. So comparing 2 synths has never been very accurate. If differences are obvious it can tell something, but little differences like here does not mean anything (especially because the Mini MS20 IS NOT a MS-20, there are a lot of differences like the white noise leaking in the Mini not in the real MS-20 !).
mini ms model is few years old. electrolytics need btwn 18 to 25 years to dry out,. depending on the temperature conditions, it can be longer. so in context of capacitors, Carr is de facto comparing two new synths here. both clones. korg is just little more accurate. imo tad fuller and less congested sounding.
I like going back watching old videos to see the price differences. You gotta love the $90-120 price jump on the mini since this video came out. But they've practically gave away the opsix and wavestate a few months ago and the volcas are marked down and buy 2 get 1 free.. I should have got a few things i wanted before the shitocalypse happened 🧂
Absolutly fantastic Video-Demo and super ambient Playing. I feel free with that sounds. It helped me so to find the right of both for me to buy. Thx so much. Namaste!
Around 11:30 ish or so... the bass fundamentals of the MS-20 seemed a bit more "ommph". While the MS-20 is likely closer to the original 1978 MS-20, I still think Behringer did a great job with the K2.
As a matter of interest, has anyone tried the iMS20 iPad app? I know it's not going to match either of these 2 proper synths but I wondered if it's worth getting just to get a feel for the ms20 ?
Yes, I've got all the Korg apps.. they're really good. The iMS20 gives a good flavour if you stick to the synth page - its got a sequencer and mixer, FX etc. I should take another look to see how some of the presets are built - maybe a good lesson in programming it?
@@StarskyCarr Yes I was thinking that too, you could load a preset and copy and tweak it on the real thing. I've got their ARP ODYSSEi app and that's good fun, takes me back to the days of watching Ultravox live (preferably in the John Foxx era for me!)
If you're in the US, I'd advise buying from Thomann USA's website, as you'll get it at a considerable discount versus buying it here in the states, even after shipping.
socalr6 0%. US citizens don’t pay VAT. That’s internal to Europeans only. In fact, if you ever shop in Europe, you can claim all of the VAT you paid on your trip at customs and get a refund. Shipping is 20-30 though. And it takes about a week. If the item is under $800 USD, you avoid having to pay an import duty as well.
K2 £269 MS20mini £469 So basically if you want the sound get the Korg, if you can’t afford it the Behringer might be close enough, but you can get used MS20 for £300 so probably the best bet.
Kind of an odd one to copy since MS20 reissues aren’t all *that* expensive themselves. K2 sounds pretty good but I think given the comparatively small price difference (compared to Model D or Pro One) it’s probably worth saving for the real one.
Prices in the USA do indeed not include taxes. Sales taxes vary from state to state and then counties add on their own as well so hundreds of variations across the country...
Nice Video Starsky. I own an original MS-20 and when i hear the Korg Mini MS-20 and the Behringer K-2 i must say they both come really close the the original MS-20. The Oscillators from the Original MS-20 are a bit smoother and a bit more round. What both clones can't do is emulate the filter of the original MS-20, the filter from the original has something that is not replicable ;) Well done....
Gonna be a bit hard to put that MS20 in my Eurorack though, so it will have to be the K-2 for me. Because, I cant hear a big enough difference to warrant having a stand-alone. AUSTRALIA : MS20 $1,040, K-2 $480. ( prices are fluctuating because of mid-year sales and availability ) With the extra $540 in my pocket I can buy a keyboard and a few extra effect modules, or a Model-D to sit beside the K-2.. Love the 70's analog sounds
It seems like your mini has a much lower (almost non-existent) noise problem. I've had about 4 different minis and they all had a very audible white noise whenever you'd close the low pass filter. Drove me absolutely insane. Anyway, fantastic video as always 👍🏼
One of the first things I noticed was the noise - prompted me to double check it want broken the day it arrived. Interesting that yours was worse. I find mine very noticeable when using the filter in a sparse track.
Great video! I had the original when I was a teenager and sold it, silly me! But got a nice '65 Fender Precision Bass for the money, which I still own. So, not a bad deal after all. It would be interesting to compare these with the MS-20 plugin of the KORG Legacy Collection, which I bought because of the MS-20 controller just for the old days, or the iMS-20. What do you think?
Hey man. Thanks for all you're doing in the synth community with these vids. Very informative and cool. I can't work out why I hate the black panel right across the screen with text on it though. I wish it was less intrusive and distracting.. But, it's late and it's been a long day so maybe I'm just intolerant tonight. 🤘
Both great synths. The PolyD is probably easier to understand as it’s a much more typical synth layout. The MS20 is arguably more flexible but getting your head around the patch bay can be a steep learning curve is you’ve never programmed a synth before. There’s definitely more to explore I would say on the MS20, but you’ll be up and running quicker with the Poly D (copy patches from loads of software versions of the Minimoog).. plus it has a paraphonic mode so you can play chords. But if you’re up for programming and experimentation then the MS20.
Give me either one and I'll be doing my happy dance, lol. If I was buying though, I'd go with the K2, because to get the most out of it I would want to use a keyboard with a sequencer like my Korg Monologue, making the Mini's built in keyboard a waste of space.
That’s pretty much my conclusion. The form factor is important. Weird that Korg stopped selling their desktop version. Maybe this’ll prompt them to bring it back?
A part of me wants an ms20 because I don't want to feel like I'm undercutting a current company's offering (unlike the pro one, which I have). But I do like the form factor of the k2. The real decision might come down to this...is the k2 volt per octave? Because that might just be the deal breaker...
No it’s the same as the MS20 (at least I think it is!! Pretty sure it is… certain it is… but never checked - maybe it is!!) so that’s if no use to you whatsoever 😂
In the first "clinical dissecting part" to me they sound almost identical. But as soon as you started treating them like an instrument thats where the differences became way more evident. The original MS20 seems alive in comparison to the K-2. The K2 does its thing its obvious, but the Korg just speaks (to me at least) a beatiful, full and articulated language.
that's interesting - I found the opposite. Once I was playing them I didn't really care so much about the differences I noticed when dissecting. But like you say, the Korg won it sound wise for me too.
One thing that brought me to this was the build quality. They both seem to have similar construction. Would you say the build quality is worrying on either one or a matter of taste?
Great review - Unless I missed it - Are the panel graphics on the K-2 easier to read? The MS-20 Mini is tough on the eyes. The intended patch point is sometimes a lucky guess!
As far as I remember I may have used the Bluetooth MIdI on the microkey - I used to use that a lot. I’ve moved to the keystep now because of the arp and controllers for midi mapping
@@StarskyCarr Oh, I see. I am trying to figure out if I can connect MicroBrute's sequencer to the MS-20, but I guess I am too better of with the KeyStep. Always buying 🙄
I have a Korg MS 20 mini that my wife got me for my birthday a few years back. I find it to be a fickle beast. I am not a fan of the mini keys, so the K2 module seems great. The funny thing about this video is that both synths demoed sound terrible through my IPad speaker, so I have to get out my headphones and then they still don’t sound significantly different to me. I owned 2 original MS 20s in the past and even had the mega sequencer, until they guy I bought one from begged me to buy it back. Both units original sounded a little different. Vintage electronics are high maintenance, so I am fine with the reliability of the remakes that are close enough for all but the most elitist cork sniffers.
No, it has more resonance so sounds harsher/brighter... at that exact point maybe (I can’t remember) but the overall impression when side by side is the resonance of the Korg has more bite. There will be another 15 minutes of footage where I check, double check and check again that make for VERY boring videos!!
@@StarskyCarr Yes it looks a little more resonant indeed, but isn't the peak also slightly more on the right in general? Just judging by the osc of course, it clearly sounds brighter to me too.
@@ltxr9973 yes over those couple of seconds it is a little higher, but as I said .. I'll have played around for a while, and edited it down. Maybe when I had them equal I was talking over the top of the synths or something... maybe someone walked in, maybe the phone rang or the camera battery ran out, or I tripped over a cable .. sometimes the recording stops for no apparent reason and you don't know until you've finished talking and only find whats missing when editing. etc etc.. but if `I said that, its because thats what Id noticed while tweaking. Its of no importance whatsoever really - they sound so similar in general :)
It has to be said that the MS20 (or K2) is not quite the best-sounding analog synth for sure. Back in 1985 I had the opportunity of getting, either an original Korg MS-20, or the Radio Shack MG-1 (made by Moog Music for Tandy Corp.) for the same price. I took the MG-1 and never regretted it. Thanks for a comprehensive comparison.
"best sounding" is a bit of a silly word to describe something as complex as the character of something like a synth. The Korg MSs sound like they do. They have their own voice. The moog doesnt really have that, it sounds like lots of other synths (inside and outside of the Moog world). If you want an MS20 voice then thats what you need to get. You certainly are not going to get that in the MG-1 or any other Moog. If you dont want it then of course its not a useful thing to have. However. If you want the Moog voice then there are lots of ways to get that.
Haha .. just showing it as it is. It’s an eye opener to see some liking K-2 more and others the Korg. Soundwise I lean towards the Korg, although they’re close in a mix.
@@StarskyCarr A very objective comparison indeed. You did a great job. Apart from the difference in sound, it is probably the likability factor of the Korg that is decisive for me. I mean, this machine just looks great in any room of my house :).
There's something with the MS20 fillter resonance you don't *feel* with the K2, between lows and 1,2Khz. This is subtle and only with the raw synth sound. Thanks for the great comparison.
Hey, i have my K2 on order. My first synth of this kind. Not entirely sure how to connect my existing keyboard to it. I have akai mpk and a komplete kontrol. both usb keyboards. How do I connect to the k2? advice pls does it run through my pc...
Nope and neither could the original ms 20. It's a shame though imo, cause behringer has added features to their other synths (MS1 has an FM knob, DeepMind has a crazy fx matrix) and even added features to this one like midi thru, two filter types... PWM would've been great. Also the ability for it to accept midi cc besides just pitch would've been cool too. Then the lack of mod wheel wouldn't be so bad.
I sold my Ms20 mini also to help fund the new Behringer Odyssey which seems like alot more synth for the money. I was planning though to get the K2 as a replacement later. After hearing the K2 in action however, they sound pretty different, with the Ms20 mini being thinner and cleaner unless pushed into heavy resonance or overdrive. The K2 on the other hand sounds heavier, grainier and more aggresive. Maybe I'm an outlier but the Ms20 mini being thinner/cleaner worked well for me because of how many fuller heavy sounding synths I have. Everyone always talks about huge sounding analog synths. If every sound is huge, nothing is huge, it's all contrast.
Can you patch the Korg into eurorack or is it more an internal kind of patching? I assume the Behringer is fully set up to be perfectly integrated into the Eurorack domain.
I think the volts/octave is the same as the original ie not eurorack compatible. The rest says +/- 5v so should work fine. Just about to set up a modular system in the next few weeks so will let you know ;) I’ll probably show it on a video or 2.
It’s worth noting here as some patches rely on the mod wheel... which isn’t hard wired to anything so you have to use the wheel CV out on the original ... which the K2 doesn’t have. A standard MIDI controller keyboard doesn’t have mod wheel CV out either. ie to do this you can’t simply use any controller, but one with wheel CV out (it doesn’t accept MIDI Cc control remember). If you were relying on it to act like an original in this setup you’ll have to think about how you’d do this. Not a biggie but it is a difference... and I’m comparing them. So I think it’s a perfectly valid point to include.
@@StarskyCarr Have they changed their name? Google isn't being helpful, on this one. I can find free plugins from a company called Melda Production though... but I'm not sure I've found the same ones you used here. EDIT: possibly this one? : www.meldaproduction.com/MFreeFXBundle
My old System 100 (1975) had a screaming filter like this, very similar but not identical. It was supposed to be a ladder diode filter, perhaps this is too?
Hi there, could you tell me please if your release pot works very sensitive way like first couple of degrees of turning it’s pretty much open almost fully?
I have a K2 and don't have this problem... I think it's just how the circuitry is. I find when I put the release at about 3 it's a bit longer than you might expect based on other synths.
Cray TwoThree glad it’s OK. No I haven’t listened on monitors again. At 40 mins it takes about 12 hours to edit so I’m completely sick of the sound of my own voice! I edit on headphones, but listen through the studio monitors when recording.
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Thanks for the video. What do you think about the comparison with the vintage ms20 of Rob Papen?
Just saw that this morning - interesting - but it makes me want to reach into the screen and have a tweak myself!! :) would love to get my hands on an original. I’ve been looking for a while but like most of us I can’t justify the cost, especially when the mini is so close.
Here we are in 2023 after Behringer announced a massive price drop across their synth line. The K2 is now $199 (US), the Korg MS-20 is $579.99. Does the Korg give you a $380.99 advantage over the K2? Even after purchasing a really nice midi controller, you'd still be ahead financially. The new lower price seems to skew the favor toward the K2.
Nice demo. I would not try to decide between them on the basis of YT sound (which destroys the true sound). Do you have a page where we can hear the audio as WAV/FLAC?
The very SECOND you apply ANY fx or EQ, whatever minuscule differences, are null and void. Nobody listening to your music would either know nor give a rat's what you used. Always great to get an SC comparison, but worrying over a harmonic here or there is meaningless. I have the Boog, and I just want it to be Boogy like, in a tune. If I want some Korginess, take a wild one, what I'm going to buy? I'm fresh out of space, so keyboards are a no no.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking bout this lol I though I was crazy, also normal listeners (not musicians/audio engineers etc) won't care at all or don't have any clue how music is made.
You two aren't the only ones. The actual tonal difference doesn't strike me as an oscillator/filter difference but a difference in the tone of the final stage amplifier within the unit. I'd just bang it into a decent preamp and save myself a bunch of money.
At 10.38 you got whistle sound because your CUTOFF FREQUENCY MODULATION seems wasn't at zero. Because my K-2 sounds identical to MS20 in this video, however if i increase EG2/EXT impact i hear that whistle sound
Oh yeah... that's annoying. Just had a play and if adds the whistle on the Korg as well.
Thank you for making this. I been wanting an MS20 for way way too long and I am finally at the point where I can afford one without painful sacrifice. 🥰🥳🔊🔊🔊🔊 Trying to decide if I buy the Behringer and Kobal expander and the arturia microfreak or if I buy only one expensive thing.
Although the MS20 was originally sold as a "research synth", most people bought it to produce music and as such, don't spend all their time looking at spectrum analysers or comparing two synths. You could even find greater differences between 2 MS20s depending on their age and use. The 2 are, to all intents and purposes, identical. The same effect occurs with the Minimoog and the Model D. Its mostly about snobbery and "look at me, I have a £3,500 Minimoog and not just a £300 Behringer." If you use them to play and record music, nobody will know what you are playing.
... that’s sort of the point if these. Showing the differences are minor (and proving it).... but if something is sold as a clone and doesn’t come close then this cuts through the marketing.
The sounds at the end show that in context ie playing something musical with some FX - no one could pick one for the other in a blind test, or in a track.
One word ‘interface’
It's an interesting one. The minimoog vs the model d it's kind of a no brainer since the minimoog is so much more. This one though, there is a difference in sound, to me the ms20 has more drive to the filter and a more rounded eq, the behringer slightly more harsh in the upper mids. Given the korg is already a rework of the original and comparatively only 50% more in price than the behringer there's a bit more of a decision to be made. I agree in a mix you probably wouldn't know the difference but, to me anyway, the behringer is slightly second best.
Btw have nothing against behringer, have their neutron synth and several other bits and pieces, this opinion is purely from my ears not my head or indeed heart. Nice vid btw, thank you for taking the time to make.
@@3phaseBerlin The Korg ms20 mini does sound bad compared to the old ms20 and the full scale ms20 and ms20m.
But your other argument is not very true. I had several ms10s and several ms20s and their differences were really audible. I preferred my first ms10. When I listen to my old recordings I can hear which one was used.
Love Behringer for what it does, but really the 2 are not identical. There are sounds that I can only make on the mini. No matter how I tried couldn t replicate them un k2. They sound very close, but somehow, something it s missing
Great comparison! I do agree, the Korg to my ears sounds a bit fuller. But both are great sounding. Love the space the Behringer saves but I once had the MS-20 mini and loved having the keyboard right there for grabs as you said you do. I think if I went this way again, my space limits would force me to the smaller K2 but I would still desire the Korg.
Behringer was one of the companies that heard my prayers..."Please stop putting keyboards on every synth". I have a large controller, Korg Kontrol49, a Keystep and Beatstep. Thank you Behringer for the Semi-Modulars.
I'm with you. I recently got the Deepmind desktop version, and that sealed it. I want to use any keyboard I want without clobbering all my space for gear. And I REALLY like being able to plop the synth right in front of me with my monitors sitting left/right in their proper positions while I work with my DAW. It might sound petty, but I'm tired of rolling my chair around to different spots and working on a patch - then having to adjust it once I hear everything properly in the sweet spot.
Same here. I've got a Novation Peak lately because I already had an M-Audio Axiom Air 49 Keyboard, which is huge, so there is just no space left for more keyed synths on my desk. Behringer really goes the right way with their semi-modulars!
Bullshit! I am much more creative with synths that have keyboards and I can tweak the sounds while playing and sitting in front of them. So stop your "prayers". Thanks.
Plenty of companies make mod or rack synths... why you prayin?
ChrisSignvm Not necessarily for the prices Behringer is asking
Have the MS 20 for about 3 years now and it's a keeper.
Agreed! adding the pwm and Osc sync mod open up other worlds of sonic loveliness.
Guys I have a simple solution, original ms20 in the studio, gig with the k2...in a giant room with effects you cant tell a difference plus you can rack it and not worry about fucking up a classic
I agree w your end comment that its nice to have the keys, simpler. I have the K2 and when I don't hear notes that I think I'm sending it via MIDI it can be difficult to know where the problem is (and with analog synths like this, it could be any knob or patch responsible for the silence). If Behringer could've just included a LED light to indicating incoming MIDI on the set channel, that'd be super helpful. You can sorta use the EG2 light for this, but I'm not certain that it will always light (when the gate opens) in all circumstances. I suppose Behringer's choice to make it w/o the keys could've been 1) to differentiate from Korg's own remake, have it substantially cheaper 2) Eurorack mounting 3) Poly-chaining. If behringer were clever they'd come up with something like Roland's AK25m set of lil keys for their boutiques, if Behringer could have something that could easily snap on to their eurorack compatible keyless synths....I guess that's the function of some eurorack cases
You Sir are a legend. You've just convinced me that I want K2 even though I've got an MS20i controller and plug-in.
Yeah, I’d go with the K2 over that any day.
Then i prefer the VST with the controller = polyphonic
These videos are invaluable! Cheers so much for putting in the time to really go deep with the comparisons - best out there bar none
Very good just got a new K2 for $199 from SW. Now that’s a deal glad I waited 3 years. I was messing with the Arturia MS20 plugin stand alone and liked the sound. Now I have hardware that sounds like an MS20 and your wonderful vid to-boot. Yes even three years later your vid is timeless.
The MS-vibe is definitely present in the K-2. To me the main difference lay in the VCO:s. They are a bit off on the K-2. Not in a bad way at all. Just different from my OG MS-20.
Two details I missed in your nice review:
- Besides the desirable MIDI through port the K-2 offers variable MIDI channel setting.
- The desired control wheel is easily provided with the ubiquitous Arturia Keystep controller's MOD out (positive voltage only but usually sufficient). Pitch bend works as expected via MIDI.
Thanks very useful. I didn’t mention those because they both can change MIDI channel, and there’s so many ways of controlling via various hardware units I can’t cover them all - so mentioning what is missing helps folks realise they may need a solution, whatever that may be. Keystep is, as you say, a useful addition - unless you want -ve voltages haha ... cheers :)
@@StarskyCarr I am confused by the MIDI thing. I looked into the MS-20 mini manual and it says: only MIDI channel 1 (fixed) for MIDI in and USB. Seemed consistent with what I remember reading on the web. Maybe it's outdated or there's some software workaround?
Haha... or maybe I’m confused!
@@Bonpu yeah Korg is only midi 1
Just picked up a K2 (for nearly half price, yay!) and it sounds more MS20-like than the demos I've watched. Playing it with other synths like the Neutron and Minibrute, it's "MS20ness" really stands out.
I hand't planned on getting one but just grabbed it because the price was too good to pass up... I think it's a keeper. That old-school filter is really addictive.
One of the distinctive features of the MS-20 is the VCA, which iirc uses a single transistor instead of an opamp. So I'd like to hear some exploration of how the two respond to an overdriven sound from a heavily filtered oscillator.
Good point . Discrete transistors tend to saturate better than op amps and OTA's .
@@AdamTheAd-vanc3d I'll permit myself some needless and I'll informed chin stroking and add that some modern transistors saturate in a very boring fashion, but this could hardly be less interesting than an opamp which will tend to just clip.
@@GeorgeLocke Well I'm only going by experience of circuits an I've built with various new and some very old transistors.
glad to see people appreciating the sound of the Korg version. To me its a super weird clone since there is already a great reissue in the MS20. No reason to pick up the K-2 really. Support Korg.
Yep it’s definitely a weird one. Moog haven’t manufactured a budget version of the Model D and Roland haven’t released an analog 808 clone.... but....
... but I’m looking forward to checking out the Pro1 with my OG Pro-one :)
Starsky Carr all for science buddy
Agreed. The Korg seems better sounding and value. The K-2 is fine but not as excellent as the Model D or Neutron in their categories.
Just my opinion, but I really can't support this kind of behaviour, where Behringer clones something that's manufactured by the original manufacturer and stomps the price. Thus I'm not currently buying anything made by Behringer. Probably doesn't matter to them at all, but that's my own little stand on the matter.
Great video! As an MS-20Kit owner I will look forward to getting a K2 as well. As a Filter 2 devotee I hear something in the MK2 filter that I do not hear in the MS-20kit, I think the Behringer has a formant type high res on the sweep and I can exploit this.
Also with similar but not exact tonalities, I think I would experiment with these to paired in a ring modulator, one as carrier, the other modulator- who knows what sounds will present themselves.
For the price, I think it will make a nice companion as additional oscillators to my MS-20Kit.
One more thing. There was a time I had two MS-20Kits, only 3 numbers apart by serial. With the same settings, they were not identical. This is part of the continuously analog randomness that I have come to love!
Mark---- you may have figured this out already, but your MS-20kit (which I have as well ;) has both filters in in already (mk1 and mk2). The documentation for changing filter on the MS-20Kit states that you have to hold down F#3, G#3, A#3, to select the Mk1 filter and F#3, G#3, B3, to select the Mk2 filter. (This is based on midi notes from a controller...... not the keyboard built into the synth...... so it might take a couple times to get it right!) Definitely opens up a whole additional world of MS Mayhem!!
I have been buying up Behringer clones on synths that are either discontinued or ridiculously expensive, but in this case I went with the Korg MS 20 mini because it's still in product and available for just a bit more...
Fantastic comparison video. This is the most informative video out there on the topic.
Great vid. Thanks. I got the MS20 Full Size white with both filters. Just love the Korg MS20 full size. Now for the Korg 80% Odyssey since no full Size is available anymore and quite hard to find the Korg Mini Arp Odyssey. Did look at the Behringer one and like it but the Korg one sounds a bit snappier to me on the adsr and smoother highpass filter.
I would get the K2 becase I can stick in a rack with other Euro rack kit and patch, the MS although mini, is less portable and for the sound difference I prefer the versatility of the K2. As far as originals go, meh? Kudos to behringer for having the nuts to bring these expensive synths to the reguler folks) Great test, thanks for taking the time to demo so we can hear em, that is priceless, thanks Mr Carr
I’ve been playing guitar for 20 odd years, bit of blues bit of rock even a touch of jazz and I’m ok i play just for fun but I’ve developed this absolute obsession for synths over the last year been watching any video I can find it’s like someone said “ this is what you need in your life mate “ 🤔
Oh dear... its a more expensive hobby than guitars - sometimes I wish I'd picked up a guitar first :)
You had me @ 'Being Boiled'...would REALLY seal the deal with 'Der Mussolini'.
Got that on my monologue
As far as I know, the Mussolini sound comes from am Odyssey, but Behringer has that synth covered too.
Quote by one of the band members:
Der Mussolini ist kompletter ARP-Sound. Der Odyssey hatte viel mehr Wumms als der MS-20
(Der Mussolini is complete an ARP-Sound. The Odyssey had much more of a punch than the MS-20.)
www.soundandrecording.de/stories/robert-goerl-ueber-das-ist-daf/
I mean.. Close your eyes and tell which one is which also bring in a second MS20 and it would sound different aswell! The Behringer is really nailing the sound.
Berhinger always nailed the sounds, on cell phone speakers lolll!
@@saintzsaintz Also in good earphones, and in person with monitors.
I dont know what to tell you but their clones sound pretty much identical to the originals.
I was going to buy the K2 but I saw an MS20 mini for £300 and couldn't resist getting it. I simply like the form factor of it. It's also handy for putting another synth on top.
Nice comparision! I´m a bit surprised and, to be honest, also a bit relieved that the Mini sounds so much fuller to my ears. As a few of you have pointed out: this is a mighty strange choice for a clone.
If you listen to the Korg from 38:15 you hear better, my vote in this particular case goes to Korg
I see a better finished product.
Great comparison! This was really helpful! 🙏🏼😎👍🏼
Man, your videos are great.
Personally, I don't want the mini keyboard and I like to rack my synths, so for this reason I'd go with the Behringer.
Really nice comparison man, thanks for this.
Nice groove c. 37:00!!! Thanks for the comparison.
Awesome mate thanks. I prefer the Korg sound having listened through my headphones. To my ears (and headphones) the Behringer sounds buzzier and, as you said a few times, brighter
The Korg sound seals it for me
I was waiting K2, but now i'll take ms mini
Interesting - the Korg gets my vote... but there’s not much in it - more about the keyboard and being slightly larger. It would be a harder decision if I preferred the sound of the K2.
@@StarskyCarr i preferred sound of korg and wrote that comment before i saw conclusion). I though that k2 will be better than mini in terms of sound, but it is not. So i just prefer formfactor of mini and that it is still korg not borg). Anyway thank you for your videos, your channel and sonicstate is all i need)
@@77advanced Well, you have to consider that Hiroaki Nishijima was on the project for the MS-20 mini. That guy is like a nuclear physicist of synthesizers. I've tried selling my MS-20 mini like 1,000 times, but when I play it, I just can't help but love it.
(now, if only it was full sized.. -_-)
Hm, I have Korg's ms 20 mini for about 3 years, great synth but the built quality is HORRIBLE, cheap plastic, the knobs are ridiculously fragile and the keyboard looks also pretty fragile to me....on the other side Behringer's synths are very solidly built so...If you want to use it for "domestic use" 😀 the Korg mini is probably ok, but for live shows, tours etc. I would maybe go for K2 because there is not a dramatic difference in sound...to me they both sound great...I am interested how K2 sounds live (thickness of the sound/bass)
To me the K2 sounds better, plus bear in mind you'll have new capacitors on your K2 vs old more 'worn in' caps on the Mini, so really think you should do this test again in a year or two ;)
Behringer is suppose to be bringing these things out and they are suppose to be affordable. But here in Canada they aren’t. This K2 is 600$ not $299. The MS-1 is also $600 not 399$ or whatever, the Odyssey is $850 not $500 and the craziest is the vocoder at $999. I understand currency exchange rates. And I don’t expect them to be the same price here as in Europe or the USA. But it seems that retailers or distributors are inflating prices here. Just needed to get that out there.thanks.
f
Thanks Man, That was well done !
The K2 is probably brighter because it has new electrolytic capacitors - The MS probably sounded the same once !
True thou I would say, maybe its the caps In the filter which deal with cut off . If its an original Ms 20 of course.
That's the MS20 mini, not the original.
Totally right! Worst, at that times it was well known that even 2 identical synths from same manufacturer did not sound exactly the same because of the component tolerance. So comparing 2 synths has never been very accurate. If differences are obvious it can tell something, but little differences like here does not mean anything (especially because the Mini MS20 IS NOT a MS-20, there are a lot of differences like the white noise leaking in the Mini not in the real MS-20 !).
mini ms model is few years old. electrolytics need btwn 18 to 25 years to dry out,. depending on
the temperature conditions, it can be longer. so in context of capacitors, Carr is de facto comparing two
new synths here. both clones. korg is just little more accurate. imo tad fuller and less congested sounding.
these videos are so good man
Great comparison review. I like both of 'em. I'd be happy with either.
I. love that you used being boiled as the opening for this.
that's *precisely* the type of tests I like! Thank you.
Love your comparisons 👌
Love your comments
I like going back watching old videos to see the price differences. You gotta love the $90-120 price jump on the mini since this video came out. But they've practically gave away the opsix and wavestate a few months ago and the volcas are marked down and buy 2 get 1 free.. I should have got a few things i wanted before the shitocalypse happened 🧂
It is pretty close to the price of a volca now as volca prices have gone up and k2 prices down
Something weird in the K-2 filter to my ears. Like you said pretty similar, but the MS 20 sounds better to me.
Hi - yes the Korg sound pips it at the post for me
Absolutly fantastic Video-Demo and super ambient Playing. I feel free with that sounds. It helped me so to find the right of both for me to buy. Thx so much. Namaste!
Wow the K-2 sounds just as good if not better. Cant wait to get one at that price.
well done,- thank you for taking the time.
Thanks for the thanks :)
just bought my K-2 for $200 on Reverb! really good deal.
My wallet has requested that I unsubscribe from your channel!!! Another great video!
Haha... I can only apologise :)
Around 11:30 ish or so...
the bass fundamentals of the MS-20 seemed a bit more "ommph".
While the MS-20 is likely closer to the original 1978 MS-20,
I still think Behringer did a great job with the K2.
As a matter of interest, has anyone tried the iMS20 iPad app? I know it's not going to match either of these 2 proper synths but I wondered if it's worth getting just to get a feel for the ms20 ?
Yes, I've got all the Korg apps.. they're really good. The iMS20 gives a good flavour if you stick to the synth page - its got a sequencer and mixer, FX etc. I should take another look to see how some of the presets are built - maybe a good lesson in programming it?
@@StarskyCarr Yes I was thinking that too, you could load a preset and copy and tweak it on the real thing. I've got their ARP ODYSSEi app and that's good fun, takes me back to the days of watching Ultravox live (preferably in the John Foxx era for me!)
If you're in the US, I'd advise buying from Thomann USA's website, as you'll get it at a considerable discount versus buying it here in the states, even after shipping.
ChasingDogma JunoUK is the same thing
ChasingDogma 🤫 Shhhh! 😂
What is the Vat like? %wise
socalr6 0%. US citizens don’t pay VAT. That’s internal to Europeans only. In fact, if you ever shop in Europe, you can claim all of the VAT you paid on your trip at customs and get a refund. Shipping is 20-30 though. And it takes about a week. If the item is under $800 USD, you avoid having to pay an import duty as well.
Great demo... both units sound great but to my ears the Korg wins by quite a bit. Korg just sounds more organic
ian hall Can you define organic please? :)
@@LukezyM Hard to describe but more natural, smoother and a nicer sound to the ears
K2 £269 MS20mini £469 So basically if you want the sound get the Korg, if you can’t afford it the Behringer might be close enough, but you can get used MS20 for £300 so probably the best bet.
Kind of an odd one to copy since MS20 reissues aren’t all *that* expensive themselves. K2 sounds pretty good but I think given the comparatively small price difference (compared to Model D or Pro One) it’s probably worth saving for the real one.
Smelliot95 , I wouldn’t really call the mini a ‘real’ one
Thank you for doing this!!! I am on the fence about getting the K2, as I have just recently decided to get the MS20 mini. Excited to watch this now!
Cost and form factor are the deciding factors I think :).
that bit at 36:15 was insane
Prices in the USA do indeed not include taxes. Sales taxes vary from state to state and then counties add on their own as well so hundreds of variations across the country...
Nice Video Starsky. I own an original MS-20 and when i hear the Korg Mini MS-20 and the Behringer K-2 i must say they both come really close the the original MS-20. The Oscillators from the Original MS-20 are a bit smoother and a bit more round. What both clones can't do is emulate the filter of the original MS-20, the filter from the original has something that is not replicable ;) Well done....
I want one, I want one, I want one :)
I thought all the parts on the mini were authentic?
Gonna be a bit hard to put that MS20 in my Eurorack though, so it will have to be the K-2 for me. Because, I cant hear a big enough difference to warrant having a stand-alone.
AUSTRALIA : MS20 $1,040, K-2 $480. ( prices are fluctuating because of mid-year sales and availability )
With the extra $540 in my pocket I can buy a keyboard and a few extra effect modules, or a Model-D to sit beside the K-2.. Love the 70's analog sounds
Great channel - thanks for doing these comparisons. Behringer are really nailing it with their clones.
It seems like your mini has a much lower (almost non-existent) noise problem. I've had about 4 different minis and they all had a very audible white noise whenever you'd close the low pass filter. Drove me absolutely insane.
Anyway, fantastic video as always 👍🏼
One of the first things I noticed was the noise - prompted me to double check it want broken the day it arrived. Interesting that yours was worse. I find mine very noticeable when using the filter in a sparse track.
Great video! I had the original when I was a teenager and sold it, silly me! But got a nice '65 Fender Precision Bass for the money, which I still own. So, not a bad deal after all.
It would be interesting to compare these with the MS-20 plugin of the KORG Legacy Collection, which I bought because of the MS-20 controller just for the old days, or the iMS-20. What do you think?
Thanks, I thought about throwing the Korg app into this.. but it was a nightmare technically to pull it together and edit.
If I remember well, Prodigy used that synth in “Firestarter”…pls correct me if I’m wrong.
MS-20 mini has a darn noise every time you press a key. I hated it. Sold it. I will be buying the Beh ver.
Ms20 is my keeper synth and these both pass with flying colours, I just wished they implemented PWM ...I think korg did that with the MS20M?
I nodded my MS20 added PWM and oscillator sync. The sync sounds Amazing! The PWM sounds as expected.
Does K2 have the same white noise bleed like the MS20 mini when the filter is closed?
"Both sound like an original MS 20" :D
Hey man. Thanks for all you're doing in the synth community with these vids. Very informative and cool. I can't work out why I hate the black panel right across the screen with text on it though. I wish it was less intrusive and distracting.. But, it's late and it's been a long day so maybe I'm just intolerant tonight. 🤘
Hi sir! For the first synth, what should I buy : korg ms 20 mini vs behringer poly d? Thanks! 🙏🏻
Both great synths. The PolyD is probably easier to understand as it’s a much more typical synth layout. The MS20 is arguably more flexible but getting your head around the patch bay can be a steep learning curve is you’ve never programmed a synth before. There’s definitely more to explore I would say on the MS20, but you’ll be up and running quicker with the Poly D (copy patches from loads of software versions of the Minimoog).. plus it has a paraphonic mode so you can play chords. But if you’re up for programming and experimentation then the MS20.
@@StarskyCarr, I need for techno and melodic techno...👽
@@StarskyCarr, thanks for your help. 🙏🏻
Give me either one and I'll be doing my happy dance, lol.
If I was buying though, I'd go with the K2, because to get the most out of it I would want to use a keyboard with a sequencer like my Korg Monologue, making the Mini's built in keyboard a waste of space.
That’s pretty much my conclusion. The form factor is important. Weird that Korg stopped selling their desktop version. Maybe this’ll prompt them to bring it back?
Starsky Carr hope so. But their desktop version was hundreds more expensive than the mini. That was odd
A part of me wants an ms20 because I don't want to feel like I'm undercutting a current company's offering (unlike the pro one, which I have). But I do like the form factor of the k2. The real decision might come down to this...is the k2 volt per octave? Because that might just be the deal breaker...
No it’s the same as the MS20 (at least I think it is!! Pretty sure it is… certain it is… but never checked - maybe it is!!) so that’s if no use to you whatsoever 😂
In the first "clinical dissecting part" to me they sound almost identical. But as soon as you started treating them like an instrument thats where the differences became way more evident. The original MS20 seems alive in comparison to the K-2. The K2 does its thing its obvious, but the Korg just speaks (to me at least) a beatiful, full and articulated language.
that's interesting - I found the opposite. Once I was playing them I didn't really care so much about the differences I noticed when dissecting. But like you say, the Korg won it sound wise for me too.
@9:15 Is this your new single coming out? Someone needs to remix this, Starsky!
The Eee Ooo EeeOoo song
No way, 115th person to watch this!!! :D:D:D Was waiting for this comparison for ages, keep up the good work Starsky!!!
Good stuff as ever - thanks.
One thing that brought me to this was the build quality. They both seem to have similar construction. Would you say the build quality is worrying on either one or a matter of taste?
Mate of me got the k2 and i have an ms 20. K2 is definitely good, but ms20 is slightly better
do they have pulse width modulation? i think the expensive korg ms20m added it..
No neither of these have it
What oscilloscope software are you using?
It’s freeware from Meldaproduction. Very useful.
It’s freeware from Meldaproduction. Very useful!
Great review - Unless I missed it - Are the panel graphics on the K-2 easier to read? The MS-20 Mini is tough on the eyes. The intended patch point is sometimes a lucky guess!
I think they're a little harder to read on the K2. They're a little bit closer together, and yellow, not white.
Heey! How did you connect the Behringer K-2 and KORG Microkey? I hope it's not a stupid question
Not directly- I went via a laptop.
@@StarskyCarr Oh, I never thought of that. So you connected the keyboard and the synth via USB?
As far as I remember I may have used the Bluetooth MIdI on the microkey - I used to use that a lot. I’ve moved to the keystep now because of the arp and controllers for midi mapping
@@StarskyCarr Oh, I see. I am trying to figure out if I can connect MicroBrute's sequencer to the MS-20, but I guess I am too better of with the KeyStep. Always buying 🙄
I have a Korg MS 20 mini that my wife got me for my birthday a few years back. I find it to be a fickle beast. I am not a fan of the mini keys, so the K2 module seems great. The funny thing about this video is that both synths demoed sound terrible through my IPad speaker, so I have to get out my headphones and then they still don’t sound significantly different to me. I owned 2 original MS 20s in the past and even had the mega sequencer, until they guy I bought one from begged me to buy it back. Both units original sounded a little different. Vintage electronics are high maintenance, so I am fine with the reliability of the remakes that are close enough for all but the most elitist cork sniffers.
13:00 didn't you just tune the korg a little higher?
No, it has more resonance so sounds harsher/brighter... at that exact point maybe (I can’t remember) but the overall impression when side by side is the resonance of the Korg has more bite. There will be another 15 minutes of footage where I check, double check and check again that make for VERY boring videos!!
@@StarskyCarr Yes it looks a little more resonant indeed, but isn't the peak also slightly more on the right in general? Just judging by the osc of course, it clearly sounds brighter to me too.
@@ltxr9973 yes over those couple of seconds it is a little higher, but as I said .. I'll have played around for a while, and edited it down. Maybe when I had them equal I was talking over the top of the synths or something... maybe someone walked in, maybe the phone rang or the camera battery ran out, or I tripped over a cable .. sometimes the recording stops for no apparent reason and you don't know until you've finished talking and only find whats missing when editing. etc etc.. but if `I said that, its because thats what Id noticed while tweaking. Its of no importance whatsoever really - they sound so similar in general :)
It has to be said that the MS20 (or K2) is not quite the best-sounding analog synth for sure. Back in 1985 I had the opportunity of getting, either an original Korg MS-20, or the Radio Shack MG-1 (made by Moog Music for Tandy Corp.) for the same price. I took the MG-1 and never regretted it. Thanks for a comprehensive comparison.
"best sounding" is a bit of a silly word to describe something as complex as the character of something like a synth.
The Korg MSs sound like they do. They have their own voice. The moog doesnt really have that, it sounds like lots of other synths (inside and outside of the Moog world). If you want an MS20 voice then thats what you need to get. You certainly are not going to get that in the MG-1 or any other Moog. If you dont want it then of course its not a useful thing to have.
However. If you want the Moog voice then there are lots of ways to get that.
Thanks, Starsky. Nice try by Behringer, but I will save up my money for the Korg.
Haha .. just showing it as it is. It’s an eye opener to see some liking K-2 more and others the Korg. Soundwise I lean towards the Korg, although they’re close in a mix.
@@StarskyCarr A very objective comparison indeed. You did a great job.
Apart from the difference in sound, it is probably the likability factor of the Korg that is decisive for me.
I mean, this machine just looks great in any room of my house :).
There's something with the MS20 fillter resonance you don't *feel* with the K2, between lows and 1,2Khz. This is subtle and only with the raw synth sound. Thanks for the great comparison.
Hey, i have my K2 on order. My first synth of this kind. Not entirely sure how to connect my existing keyboard to it. I have akai mpk and a komplete kontrol. both usb keyboards. How do I connect to the k2? advice pls does it run through my pc...
TG Music look up USB Midi Host
Can the K2 use the lfo to make pulse-width modulation?
Nope and neither could the original ms 20. It's a shame though imo, cause behringer has added features to their other synths (MS1 has an FM knob, DeepMind has a crazy fx matrix) and even added features to this one like midi thru, two filter types... PWM would've been great.
Also the ability for it to accept midi cc besides just pitch would've been cool too. Then the lack of mod wheel wouldn't be so bad.
just curious : how does the K2 ring modulator compare to the Mini-Korg 700S fx ?
No idea, sorry, I've never tried one.
I sold my Ms20 mini also to help fund the new Behringer Odyssey which seems like alot more synth for the money. I was planning though to get the K2 as a replacement later. After hearing the K2 in action however, they sound pretty different, with the Ms20 mini being thinner and cleaner unless pushed into heavy resonance or overdrive. The K2 on the other hand sounds heavier, grainier and more aggresive. Maybe I'm an outlier but the Ms20 mini being thinner/cleaner worked well for me because of how many fuller heavy sounding synths I have. Everyone always talks about huge sounding analog synths. If every sound is huge, nothing is huge, it's all contrast.
Can you patch the Korg into eurorack or is it more an internal kind of patching? I assume the Behringer is fully set up to be perfectly integrated into the Eurorack domain.
I think the volts/octave is the same as the original ie not eurorack compatible. The rest says +/- 5v so should work fine. Just about to set up a modular system in the next few weeks so will let you know ;) I’ll probably show it on a video or 2.
Of course it doesn't have a pitch bend wheel. Its a desktop Synthesizer. Would be nice if they offered a keyboard version.
It’s worth noting here as some patches rely on the mod wheel... which isn’t hard wired to anything so you have to use the wheel CV out on the original ... which the K2 doesn’t have. A standard MIDI controller keyboard doesn’t have mod wheel CV out either. ie to do this you can’t simply use any controller, but one with wheel CV out (it doesn’t accept MIDI Cc control remember). If you were relying on it to act like an original in this setup you’ll have to think about how you’d do this. Not a biggie but it is a difference... and I’m comparing them. So I think it’s a perfectly valid point to include.
@@StarskyCarr oo that is annoying
whats the oscillator software you use to display the waveform?
It’s a from Meldaproduction... they do a pack of free plugins www.meldaproduction.com
@@StarskyCarr Have they changed their name?
Google isn't being helpful, on this one. I can find free plugins from a company called Melda Production though... but I'm not sure I've found the same ones you used here.
EDIT: possibly this one? :
www.meldaproduction.com/MFreeFXBundle
Behringer! What about a reproduction of the Korg PS 3300 for $500? Okay, okay.. $600.
Hello from Tallinn! Could you tell me please, what the midi controller with behringer and how it connected with it? Thank you
It’s a Korg Microkey air. It’s connected via the laptop - not direct with the synth. I’ve never visited Estonia, but it’s in my list ;)
@@StarskyCarr 🙏 Thanks so much ❤️ So you welcome, you need to visit us. It's too much pretty little country. But what the last weeks we have rains.💦🌚
My old System 100 (1975) had a screaming filter like this, very similar but not identical. It was supposed to be a ladder diode filter, perhaps this is too?
Hi there, could you tell me please if your release pot works very sensitive way like first couple of degrees of turning it’s pretty much open almost fully?
I have a K2 and don't have this problem... I think it's just how the circuitry is. I find when I put the release at about 3 it's a bit longer than you might expect based on other synths.
Mine ‘s about 2s set at 2, 6s at 5 and over 30s fully open.
Will try it at home to see if it’s same and will post results here
Cool it is same as you stated. Did watch your video again at home on monitors and yeas that sort of bass puts smile on my face as well:) nice
Cray TwoThree glad it’s OK. No I haven’t listened on monitors again. At 40 mins it takes about 12 hours to edit so I’m completely sick of the sound of my own voice! I edit on headphones, but listen through the studio monitors when recording.
Thanks for the video. What do you think about the comparison with the vintage ms20 of Rob Papen?
Just saw that this morning - interesting - but it makes me want to reach into the screen and have a tweak myself!! :) would love to get my hands on an original. I’ve been looking for a while but like most of us I can’t justify the cost, especially when the mini is so close.
Starsky Carr thanks. I think the same.
Sound the same, tbh
Rob papen really does make good plugin synths though
Here we are in 2023 after Behringer announced a massive price drop across their synth line. The K2 is now $199 (US), the Korg MS-20 is $579.99. Does the Korg give you a $380.99 advantage over the K2? Even after purchasing a really nice midi controller, you'd still be ahead financially. The new lower price seems to skew the favor toward the K2.
Nice demo. I would not try to decide between them on the basis of YT sound (which destroys the true sound). Do you have a page where we can hear the audio as WAV/FLAC?
🤣
The very SECOND you apply ANY fx or EQ, whatever minuscule differences, are null and void.
Nobody listening to your music would either know nor give a rat's what you used.
Always great to get an SC comparison, but worrying over a harmonic here or there is meaningless.
I have the Boog, and I just want it to be Boogy like, in a tune. If I want some Korginess, take a wild one, what I'm going to buy? I'm fresh out of space, so keyboards are a no no.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking bout this lol I though I was crazy, also normal listeners (not musicians/audio engineers etc) won't care at all or don't have any clue how music is made.
You two aren't the only ones. The actual tonal difference doesn't strike me as an oscillator/filter difference but a difference in the tone of the final stage amplifier within the unit. I'd just bang it into a decent preamp and save myself a bunch of money.