I have seen and fixed this issue before. If you look at the IPLs for the Husqvarna 450, they used a different coil and flywheel combination on the older 450s built through about 2011. While the parts will physically bolt on the newer and older saws in any combination, you can't mix and match. This is because the magnets on the newer flywheels are way more advanced relative to TDC than the older flywheels. Put an older coil on a newer saw/flywheel and the spark plug will fire before the piston is high enough to cover the transfer ports. My suspicion is that Husqvarna used to use a straight CD ignition on the older models that maybe only had a two-step advance curve for starting and running. The newer coils are most certainly fully electronic with a completely variable advance curve. Therefore they need to get their impulse to charge the coil earlier, so they can fire at any point throughout a more broad advance curve. The aftermarket doesn't seem to differentiate between the two coil and flywheel part numbers, which makes this issue even worse if you're not using OEM parts and following the parts list for your particular saw.
That sir is the answer I was looking for. I went through the 450 catalogs and thought I actually found three different part numbers. This follows a theory I have about aftermarket carbs. People say they are crap but I believe a lot are being sold for models they won't actually work on. Many times its because the impulse hole doesn't line up properly. Thank You.
yea i have seen this before also and in the 440 saws too you have to run the right flywheel with the right coil. The things we run into when customers try to fix their stuff then bring it to us , but i quess thats why we do what we do.Good job.
Now that was a great answer, especially to us rookies. Well I'm 57 but a rookie at servicing Stihl and Husqvarna. I love this channel and haved learned allot. It's sad that some of the maintenance channels such as his just don't take time to respond to questions. He's always answered all my questions no matter how silly.
I was thinking its a starter mechanism issue and when that wasn't it, my 2nd pick was the coil. I was hoping it wasn't the coil so I could get schooled a bit though😅
My thought, after starter, was key was sheared, crank had gotten twisted, or the coil was wired incorrectly and had reversed the magnets (if thats even possible?). Glad to see some of the comments have an explanation.
Yes it can be tough sometimes when working with unknown parts from less than reputable suppliers. On the other hand, maybe he just ordered the wrong coil.
Great vid! LOL, folks won’t believe you. I’ve got an old Super 041 Stihl with a original electronic SEM ignition set up that starts up in the correct direction but will occasionally “pop” backfire & run backwards. Too late timing is what I think.
That's bizarre. I wouldn't guessed a coil could do that.. I agree with your assessment of the situation, still weird. I'm surprised it started as well as it did. I have heard of old two stroke dirt bikes running backwards
One day I discovered my old suzuki dirt bike would run backwards if I bump started it rolling backwards down hill. Riding backwards is truly a circus act!
I hope you labelled and kept that coil. That would be one heck of a party trick, to get the saw running well backwards and cut with it, you would have to reverse the chain and locktite the clutch on, I wonder if there's a Chinese crank with a right hand clutch thread?
My 450 is doing the same thing!! I ran it the other day it was running great it sat on a table outside overnight that next morning, i tried to start it, and it wouldnt stay running and i noticed the chain was going backwards It is all original, no aftermarket parts I baught the saw new and have not changed any parts
Good video Scott! Never have I seen anything like that before and I've owned and worked on a lot of saws although maybe not enough. I was thinking before you showed us what was wrong that the issue might have been that "new" coil he put in. Thanks for the upload man. Love your channel brother!
Surprised it didn’t blow the plug out! The plug threads on my Husky gave-up and my plug boot got burned up. Have an amazon coil installed now; And while it runs, I'm suspect of poor timing issues down the road.
Coil was my thought for sure but no idea so I'll go with your explanation! I have to go down to my Husky dealer Monday and he's a very great saw mechanic like yourself so I'm going to run it by him. If I don't come back he has same explanation!
When you said that he replaced the coil and you mentioned the imposter spark plug it gave it away. He bought one of those Scamazon kits that probably included a new Chinesium coil and spark plug.
I agree the ignition was advancing and would turn the engine the opposite way. As soon as you started it, I remembered the parts you said he changed and immediately said ignition coil. Can’t trust all those reproduction parts.
Advanced timing is most likely the answer but as it turns out the coil may actually be good but doesn't match this flywheel. Check out jackofalltrades comment.
Maybe it kicks back faster than the dogs can return. I dunno, that starter was a bit jacked up. Maybe the dogs actually are what caused some of that sloppiness in the starter.
I think you're right. I had thought about it for a while and came to the same conclusion. I think i've mentioned this before but you have taught me lots on the procedure and diagnostics of troubleshooting chainsaws. @@TheGreasyShopRag
One more question….might be a good video….What process would you go through to get a saw going that hasn’t been run for three years and was just put on the shelf after using for two days? 😞
I would say any of my videos where I say "customer states hasn't been run in a while" would cover it. Theres nothing I would automatically do but after looking there are probably a lot of things that might need attention. When the right saw comes along I'll present it that way.
Thats a new one for me. Definitely archive that one. . Ive found that when you get a pre assembled gray market saw, with the so called warranty. You normally get decent parts. . But you order individual parts or a long block thats not fully functional. That has no warranty, its a full on craps shoot to wether the stuff is functional in basic design.
LH CHAIN - This situation may partially validate old rumors of a left-handed chain saw allegedly developed by overseas manufacturing interests in the early 1970’s “hippie” design period. General layout was to be a mirror-image of normal saws, with the chain drive on the left side, starter pull on the right, etc. This would of course require special proprietary backwards-running chains. The idea was to cater to users who preferred to operate “goofy”, I.e., left hand on trigger, right hand on handlebar. Also, felling trees from the off side would be facilitated, notably when making the Humboldt notch. Development was halted when it was discovered that full-wrap handlebars could do the same things at much less cost. This saw may have inadvertently been fitted with one of these special chains, which would cause the engine to run backwards. Or maybe it’s that ignition timing thing in your video. PS: This is NOT a dig at left-handed persons. I myself am left-handed and there is nothing wrong with me.
Can't remember the brand but that doesn't matter because a lot of people have asked and I've gone back to look but have never found it. I really like that cheap screwdriver and I should probably start searching for a backup. If I find one I'll be sure to post a video.
@@TheGreasyShopRag Dangit! lol. I will be watching if you figure it out. I just found your channel a few days ago because I was trying to do some maintenance and cleaning on my 2020 572 XP and my 2013 550 XP. Keep up the great work, I enjoy your style and I love hearing about less than smart chainsaw owners! lol.
They might run their saws backwards like how they drive on the other side of the road thats backwards to probably why a bunch of them here can't drive for shit
That could only happen on a two stroke, cause it pulls fuel from the bottom end. Couldn not be possible on a 4 stroke. Whould be interasting to se if it was sucking in through the exhaust
Bad IGN Module 😮😀 I’m Guessing and Yes I Was Correct 😀 And I Agree With Your Theory There Is an Internal Failure Of The IGN Module Only Seen One Run Backwards It Was an MS-200T Same Fix Have Had Many Redmax Strimmers and Echo Hand Held Blower Coils Pop And Backfire Thru The Carb or Fire and Jerk The Recoil Out of My Hand It’s Always The IGN Module I Like You Verify The Integrity of The Flywheel Key and Also Check For Spark With The Kill Wire Disconnected When They Fail They Dont Just Fail From No Spark It’s Got Spark But Out of Time 😎😀
www.ebay.com/str/thegreasyshoprag It doesn't look like I have one listed but that coil should cross to other models like the 41, 136 and 141. I'll let you know if i find one in the garage.
I have been burned several times with chineseum parts. I avoid them like the plague honestly. Got a chain brake handle for a Husky 359 off Fleabay, was almost 3/4 of an inch too narrow. No where near OEM spec. Chinese carbs? Hell no! Rebuild the OEM every single time. And don't get me going on the stolen design, knockoff, deceptively marketed to sound German or Swedish saws. I've even seen where these "companies" over there are selling knockoff parts that say "Sweden" on them or "Germany".
Those aftermarket companies would be doing themselves a big favor if they would just verify fitment AND runability before offering a part for certain models.
@@TheGreasyShopRag I don't think they care honestly. When I was a kid we used to call it "Fly by night" operations. Just peddling junk and then move on to peddle more junk. Appreciate the videos by the way!
@@firefightersh You're right. Who made it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it was offered as a unit that would fit the entire 450 range of saws and thats not the case. So many aftermarket companies do this. They know it fits one model so they just offer it for all versions of that one model. Replacement carbs are a problem like this too.
Husqvarna is loaded with allkind of coil and quality issues nowadays. No big news there, but sir please don't bang customer's equpment against the table. I know why you do it, but still please don't.
I have seen and fixed this issue before. If you look at the IPLs for the Husqvarna 450, they used a different coil and flywheel combination on the older 450s built through about 2011. While the parts will physically bolt on the newer and older saws in any combination, you can't mix and match. This is because the magnets on the newer flywheels are way more advanced relative to TDC than the older flywheels. Put an older coil on a newer saw/flywheel and the spark plug will fire before the piston is high enough to cover the transfer ports. My suspicion is that Husqvarna used to use a straight CD ignition on the older models that maybe only had a two-step advance curve for starting and running. The newer coils are most certainly fully electronic with a completely variable advance curve. Therefore they need to get their impulse to charge the coil earlier, so they can fire at any point throughout a more broad advance curve. The aftermarket doesn't seem to differentiate between the two coil and flywheel part numbers, which makes this issue even worse if you're not using OEM parts and following the parts list for your particular saw.
That sir is the answer I was looking for. I went through the 450 catalogs and thought I actually found three different part numbers. This follows a theory I have about aftermarket carbs. People say they are crap but I believe a lot are being sold for models they won't actually work on. Many times its because the impulse hole doesn't line up properly. Thank You.
yea i have seen this before also and in the 440 saws too you have to run the right flywheel with the right coil. The things we run into when customers try to fix their stuff then bring it to us , but i quess thats why we do what we do.Good job.
Thanks, I was just lucky I didn't waste a lot of time stumbling upon a fix.@@husky268
Now that was a great answer, especially to us rookies. Well I'm 57 but a rookie at servicing Stihl and Husqvarna. I love this channel and haved learned allot. It's sad that some of the maintenance channels such as his just don't take time to respond to questions. He's always answered all my questions no matter how silly.
Thank you all for your answers. I have a lot to learn about newer saws. Now I know what I need to study.
Damn that’s the craziest thing I’ve ever seen with a chainsaw. Great diag and fix!!!
Thanks for watching!
My thought are , you did an incredible job diagnosing this chainsaw!
Thanks for your thoughts!
Definitely an important learning experience right here!
Agreed. Thanks for watching!
That was definitely crazy. Your diagnostic abilities are great. A rookie would have been confused for days. Great job wish you were in my area.
Thanks, and Thanks for watching!
Funnily enough the coil was my first thought, the only thing I could imagine it could be. Surprised it ran at all tho! 👍
It would have been easier to find if it didn't have any spark at all.
I was thinking its a starter mechanism issue and when that wasn't it, my 2nd pick was the coil. I was hoping it wasn't the coil so I could get schooled a bit though😅
Jack of All Trades called it. Good video.
I think your explanation is right on the money! Certainly not a common problem! Stay away from aftermarket parts!!
Thanks for watching!
@@TheGreasyShopRag Thanks for the videos! I've been a mechanic for 45+ yrs and have been learning a lot!
My thought, after starter, was key was sheared, crank had gotten twisted, or the coil was wired incorrectly and had reversed the magnets (if thats even possible?). Glad to see some of the comments have an explanation.
Yes it can be tough sometimes when working with unknown parts from less than reputable suppliers. On the other hand, maybe he just ordered the wrong coil.
Great video. Another reason it ran poorly was that it was running backwards so the ports were in the “wrong place”
Thanks for watching!
Another good one!
I definitely learned something on this one. Great video & thanks!
Thanks for watching!
That's crazy! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Another example of why to always use OEM parts! Thanks Scott!
Thanks for watching!
Thems some times hard to get then you get what can. But that saws pretty clean so it must been broke for a long time
Great vid!
LOL, folks won’t believe you. I’ve got an old Super 041 Stihl with a original electronic SEM ignition set up that starts up in the correct direction but will occasionally “pop” backfire & run backwards. Too late timing is what I think.
To me it certainly seems like a timing issue.
That was a great video. Those cheap coils seem way better than spending $100 plus on a proper one but hey that’s a life lesson for the customer.
Thanks for watching!
Unreal! Great diagnosis, Scott 👍🏼
Thanks for watching!
I ain't ever seen that before.
I always,use NGK sparks, only some wexceptio of Briggs engines...
That's bizarre. I wouldn't guessed a coil could do that.. I agree with your assessment of the situation, still weird. I'm surprised it started as well as it did. I have heard of old two stroke dirt bikes running backwards
One day I discovered my old suzuki dirt bike would run backwards if I bump started it rolling backwards down hill. Riding backwards is truly a circus act!
great video
Thanks for watching!
Yes the coil wasn't built right what put the timing off I have seen it once on an echo
I've never even heard of that issue. My first thought was... sunspots?
Great video
Thanks for watching!
I hope you labelled and kept that coil. That would be one heck of a party trick, to get the saw running well backwards and cut with it, you would have to reverse the chain and locktite the clutch on, I wonder if there's a Chinese crank with a right hand clutch thread?
That would sure mess with a guys head.
@@TheGreasyShopRagYep.
Left handed chainsaw? Austrailan model? Coil made on April 1 ?
My 450 is doing the same thing!! I ran it the other day it was running great it sat on a table outside overnight that next morning, i tried to start it, and it wouldnt stay running and i noticed the chain was going backwards It is all original, no aftermarket parts I baught the saw new and have not changed any parts
It was really cold out - 5° I did get it a little wet but not soaked soaked from snow, so maybe it got moisture in the ignition coil ?
@@brandonhyson2563 Does it do this every time you start it now? Have you removed the starter for inspection of rope?
This video would have made a great Sherlock Holmes/Halloween episode! The case of the haunted chain saw! KEKW!
Thanks for watching!
Perfect explanation, good job scott
Thanks for watching!
I had an old ECHO do exactly the same, it would start fine, then a slight stutter and then ran backwards.. New module cured it.
Really great video. Sounds logical about firing before TDC. Weird things happen even with the dirty 4 cycles when coil installed upside down.
I try to stay away from those filthy disqusting things 🙂
Good video Scott! Never have I seen anything like that before and I've owned and worked on a lot of saws although maybe not enough. I was thinking before you showed us what was wrong that the issue might have been that "new" coil he put in. Thanks for the upload man. Love your channel brother!
Thanks for watching!
Good work bud, 👏
Thanks for watching!
Surprised it didn’t blow the plug out! The plug threads on my Husky gave-up and my plug boot got burned up. Have an amazon coil installed now; And while it runs, I'm suspect of poor timing issues down the road.
Did you fix the threads or replace the cylinder?
Coil was my thought for sure but no idea so I'll go with your explanation! I have to go down to my Husky dealer Monday and he's a very great saw mechanic like yourself so I'm going to run it by him. If I don't come back he has same explanation!
Read through the comments and find jackofalltrades comment. I think he nailed it.
@@TheGreasyShopRag Just did and that makes perfect sense!
That's a wierd one. I was thinking the flywheel key was sheared.
I thought that for a while also.
OMG that’s a good one!!!
Thanks for watching!
I haven't come across Stihl branded spark plugs. Stihl offers NGK and Bosch.
I've never seen Stihl spark plugs before but then again I usually don't see any Stihls until they've been around the block a few times.
When you said that he replaced the coil and you mentioned the imposter spark plug it gave it away. He bought one of those Scamazon kits that probably included a new Chinesium coil and spark plug.
I always wondered why some of those kits include two similar primer bulbs. Its like they don't even know what the parts are going on.
I would have been pulling what little hair I have left out. I probably would have been messaging you for help.
Lol, thats what makes diagnosing saws online so difficult. Every now and then you get a saw that runs backwards!
Thanks for the breakdown; perfectly logical. New equipment? Better audio this video. Thanks
Same equipment. What type of audio concerns do you have? I want to try to provide as good a video as I can and I welcome any feedback.
Bless That's why on the old Fords with crank start, if you didn't retard the timing, it would kick back & brake your arm. GREAT 😊 video
Ahhhh, the good old days. Thanks for watching!
Amazing
Thanks for watching!
I agree the ignition was advancing and would turn the engine the opposite way. As soon as you started it, I remembered the parts you said he changed and immediately said ignition coil. Can’t trust all those reproduction parts.
Advanced timing is most likely the answer but as it turns out the coil may actually be good but doesn't match this flywheel. Check out jackofalltrades comment.
Never seen that before!!! Lol Later alligator!!! I enjoy your content, keep on keeping on
Thanks for watching!
Thats kinda funny running backwards.
Great.....
Now you got me worried.
I ordered an ignition coil for an echo cs350wes from Amazon.
Don't worry, be happy 🙂The failures get talked about way more than the successes.
@TheGreasyShopRag
Man I hope so.
Nice!
Thanks for watching!
I can't figure out why the dogs on the recoil wouldn't stop it running backwards.
Maybe it kicks back faster than the dogs can return. I dunno, that starter was a bit jacked up. Maybe the dogs actually are what caused some of that sloppiness in the starter.
I think you're right. I had thought about it for a while and came to the same conclusion. I think i've mentioned this before but you have taught me lots on the procedure and diagnostics of troubleshooting chainsaws. @@TheGreasyShopRag
What is really hard to believe is the guy putting the chain on backwards to compensate...!
@@TopD90 Lol!
One more question….might be a good video….What process would you go through to get a saw going that hasn’t been run for three years and was just put on the shelf after using for two days? 😞
I would say any of my videos where I say "customer states hasn't been run in a while" would cover it. Theres nothing I would automatically do but after looking there are probably a lot of things that might need attention. When the right saw comes along I'll present it that way.
Thats a new one for me.
Definitely archive that one.
.
Ive found that when you get a pre assembled gray market saw, with the so called warranty. You normally get decent parts.
.
But you order individual parts or a long block thats not fully functional. That has no warranty, its a full on craps shoot to wether the stuff is functional in basic design.
Thats low life practice but doesn't surprise me a bit.
@TheGreasyShopRag yea when there on sale and you can get 10 saws for sub $1,400 to your door. You know warranty coverage, is Going to be very sparce.
LH CHAIN - This situation may partially validate old rumors of a left-handed chain saw allegedly developed by overseas manufacturing interests in the early 1970’s “hippie” design period. General layout was to be a mirror-image of normal saws, with the chain drive on the left side, starter pull on the right, etc. This would of course require special proprietary backwards-running chains.
The idea was to cater to users who preferred to operate “goofy”, I.e., left hand on trigger, right hand on handlebar. Also, felling trees from the off side would be facilitated, notably when making the Humboldt notch. Development was halted when it was discovered that full-wrap handlebars could do the same things at much less cost.
This saw may have inadvertently been fitted with one of these special chains, which would cause the engine to run backwards. Or maybe it’s that ignition timing thing in your video.
PS: This is NOT a dig at left-handed persons. I myself am left-handed and there is nothing wrong with me.
Hmmm...not sure how to respond to that but I like your enthusiasm. Thanks for watching!
what do think about amazon coils?
A lot less now 🙂
HEY GREAT Video thanks. Also ,if the gap on the coil is too big it can also retard the timing. Ask me how I Know!
Lol! Thats called learning.
heard stories of mopeds with timing faults running backwards never seen it myself
Its certainly odd.
That's a hoot.
10-4
Wondering what brand/model your little electric screwdriver is? Thanks!
Can't remember the brand but that doesn't matter because a lot of people have asked and I've gone back to look but have never found it. I really like that cheap screwdriver and I should probably start searching for a backup. If I find one I'll be sure to post a video.
@@TheGreasyShopRag Dangit! lol. I will be watching if you figure it out. I just found your channel a few days ago because I was trying to do some maintenance and cleaning on my 2020 572 XP and my 2013 550 XP. Keep up the great work, I enjoy your style and I love hearing about less than smart chainsaw owners! lol.
I don't want to belittle homeowners that make mistakes. They put food on the table, but the chainsaw carnage makes for good videos.@@craigmcinnis8750
🔥🔥🔥👍😁
Thanks for watching!
Wow
Man those chinesium parts have got me a time or 2 in the past
They make it so tempting with low pricing but in the end you still have to buy the right parts.
They might run their saws backwards like how they drive on the other side of the road thats backwards to probably why a bunch of them here can't drive for shit
That could only happen on a two stroke, cause it pulls fuel from the bottom end. Couldn not be possible on a 4 stroke.
Whould be interasting to se if it was sucking in through the exhaust
It wouldn't suck through the exhaust.
Yeah you can hear the difference
Yep, thanks for watching!
Just put the chain on backwards too. Problem solved
Thats what I was thinking!
Technically no, it'll eat up the clutch drum, but yeah it'd be funny to to see😂
Now that you have me thinking about it, I suppose that would be a dangerous kickback saw. @@dieselmechanicsam
Good saw. It runs both ways!
It’s from the future!
Thanks for watching!
Bad IGN Module 😮😀 I’m Guessing and Yes I Was Correct 😀 And I Agree With Your Theory There Is an Internal Failure Of The IGN Module Only Seen One Run Backwards It Was an MS-200T Same Fix Have Had Many Redmax Strimmers and Echo Hand Held Blower Coils Pop And Backfire Thru The Carb or Fire and Jerk The Recoil Out of My Hand It’s Always The IGN Module I Like You Verify The Integrity of The Flywheel Key and Also Check For Spark With The Kill Wire Disconnected When They Fail They Dont Just Fail From No Spark It’s Got Spark But Out of Time 😎😀
Have you seen this before?
@@TheGreasyShopRagYes I Edited My Comment After I Saw The Whole Video and Your Ending Saw It On an MS-200T
My thought was, you guys rent chainsaws lol?
We do rent chainsaws.
Reason why I ask….I have a Husqvarna 36 saw needing a coil and brake.
www.ebay.com/str/thegreasyshoprag
It doesn't look like I have one listed but that coil should cross to other models like the 41, 136 and 141. I'll let you know if i find one in the garage.
????😂 New mod.
Its for backwards chain undercuts 🙂
I have been burned several times with chineseum parts. I avoid them like the plague honestly. Got a chain brake handle for a Husky 359 off Fleabay, was almost 3/4 of an inch too narrow. No where near OEM spec. Chinese carbs? Hell no! Rebuild the OEM every single time. And don't get me going on the stolen design, knockoff, deceptively marketed to sound German or Swedish saws. I've even seen where these "companies" over there are selling knockoff parts that say "Sweden" on them or "Germany".
Those aftermarket companies would be doing themselves a big favor if they would just verify fitment AND runability before offering a part for certain models.
@@TheGreasyShopRag I don't think they care honestly. When I was a kid we used to call it "Fly by night" operations. Just peddling junk and then move on to peddle more junk. Appreciate the videos by the way!
And I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment. @@Randpage
My guess that Chinesum is junk for the most part..
We keep buying it so they will keep making it.
Nonsense
Its crazy.
No because who made coil
Should not discriminate
Just coil and flywheel not match
@@firefightersh You're right. Who made it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it was offered as a unit that would fit the entire 450 range of saws and thats not the case. So many aftermarket companies do this. They know it fits one model so they just offer it for all versions of that one model. Replacement carbs are a problem like this too.
Husqvarna is loaded with allkind of coil and quality issues nowadays. No big news there, but sir please don't bang customer's equpment against the table. I know why you do it, but still please don't.
Bang? I don't bang. I firmly direct the equipment to the bench top with great passion 🙂 Kinda like a slap on the ass.