@vitalmx My dealership has Triumph and got some inside info quite a while ago, Rc did some testing here it was real hush hush, now that the cat's out of the bag, what we heard is there not against a 350. This is very early in production, and it looks to me like a solid production model, especially for the first bike. Well done Triumph can't wait to test it out.🤙🏁
I would definitely be more comfortable buying a 350 than a 250 or 450 but I can understand that doesn't really fit the classes and would be more aimed toward woods riders and hobby riders but the market is there especially with the piston design and lower maintenance is huge
Your breakdowns are always so informative, your understanding of the kind of things we’d be most interested in knowing keeps me coming to Vital for the sort of things I can’t seem to get anywhere else! Thanks!
I know ML has been back in reviewing and testing bikes for some time now, but man I really love seeing him getting back to form. Reminds me of when I first started riding again in 2018 and just looked at all the shootouts. And seeing Triumph produce a good bike and being this open is just great, really seems like it is competing for the podium.
Absolute best evaluation of the three I have seen today (which is day 1 World Launch and at Gatorback Cycle Park, and which I drove by today after dropping kids off at middle school). I really wanted to go on turf and watch the launch industry rides. I am amazed at how well you absorbed everything, especially the engine break down while not even looking like you needed notes. You asked great questions and gave an excellent evaluation. Top shelf man. Well done. Bike seems to have a good starting basis. My current bikes are KTM350's.
Well, I sold my KX450 and looking to re-continue riding on a 250 you just about convinced me it's OK to buy the first model/run of a new bike... and this bikes seems really solid. Thanks for the detailed review.
thanks for the info.. with all the talk of suspension, it would be great to hear WHY you went which way you went with clickers and such. All the numbers are great, but what were you looking for when you make "X" adjustment? ei; why would go 3 clicks stiffer on compression, 2 clicks faster on rebound. (just as an example) maybe do a solid video on suspension settings on what to do if your bike does THIS. and go over what happens if you go the wrong way.. just spit balling here.. lol.. Thanks for all the great vids!
Another excellent insight Michael - you win the review shootout again. Very impressed with the Triumph - I appreciate you clarifying the componentry and similarities with other brands.
Excellent review. The knowledge you have is overwhelming to me. Talk about experience and a possession of technical expertise! I've never heard someone present so much detailed and precise information. Thanks.
Great review---gives a comprehensive picture of the bike in just 22 minutes.Great delivery. If he was doing this for print, it would already be written, and written well.
In my opinion Lindsay is one of the best guys for bike reviews. Gives the interesting technical details we want to know and doesn't over hype the bikes. Some of the other reviewers make every bike sound like the best thing ever
I gotta say I'm impressed with your riding! on the balls of your feet. Toes tucked in, heals down. Knees are back looks very good. Almost as good as AJ.
For us mechanics the single spar frames tend to make things a bit more hard when wrenching on them with the engine in frame. But otherwise this bike looks really good. Very informative as always ML.
Everyone hating on Torx. It's way better once you get past YOUR stubbornness and actually use it. I use it almost exclusively on my 6 KTMs. Easier to get the tool on, especially on inset/flush hardware, and also keeps your hardware/bike looking much cleaner without the tool marks and corrosion on the outside like on the hex stuff. Probably don't notice this kind of stuff living in California and getting brand new bikes every couple months, but it makes a big difference on several year old bikes and in corrosive environments.
The race team uses Akrapovic and there's a customer system already available for the bike as an option or later purchase from Triumph dealers. The stock exhaust is sourced from a different vendor at Triumph's specifications. The Akrapovic produces more power from 6,000 to 13,000 RPM by their claims.
I knew it. Triumph is going to flood market. I had a feeling guess we all do, KYB AND LOOKS LIKE A 2010’s aluminum spine frame just engine was my question
Sounds solid. They did right by hiring a bunch of people in the industry as well as getting competitive product and use it to both test and evaluate design. Nothing groundbreaking, though. But, that's a safe approach, and they did it right. What I find kinda funny is nobody on the boards complain about Triumph ripping off the other manufacturers' design. Anytime there's a bike (or product) from China, all of the talk is how the Chinese rip off everyone else. Reality is, the Chinese do that about as much as any other product developer. Been in the development industry for 30 years, and that's pretty much how it's done....leveraging (or ripping off, if you want to call it) previous designs and here and there innovating or improving.
Watched aĺl of them, circa midnight post embargo. I'm old so have to give whiskey throttle the knod for star power with Yogi, but otherwise, best. Well done ML. Edited to say: Fische? Parts fiche? You're not old enough to use that term. 😂 I am confused.
Confused about the adjustable cam gears ? you mean the user can do this ? would be great for offroad torque. Also great you "had to go stiffer" always a sign of a compliant chassis. Easier to fix than "too stiff" which is usually rigid chassis.. 3 Ring piston is very 2009 yamaha. Prob cost a little power, but great if it comes out in an enduro model.
Pegs are 100% unique and I’m waiting for an answer on wheels. Shock is unique to them I believe. Only thing that is similar is an RM-Z250 shock but I believe it’s a little different. Forks are similar to YZ but a little different.
Would you please do a suspension video - you seem like a great instructor. Would love to hear a teaching video / your thought processes of when the bike does this or that you try this or that
My previous comment “ what I’m hearing is they’ve taken a Ktm engine, liked what they saw, tweaked it and then produced their own engine” seems to have disappeared? I will add that all through the tedious run up to the bikes release there were loads of commentators, officials and general public, denying the fact that the engine even looked like a KTM let alone was inspired by it, yet in this presentation Triumph has apparently admitted it at the press Q&A briefing.
I'm 5'6" so I was curious too, I had the 22.5 Factory Edition Husky 450 it was tall, same as the KTM, factory edition isn't lower like the production Husky,but I still felt comfortable. There getting a little excessive with seat height for us vertically challenged ppl 😂🤙🏁
@@holeshotinspectionllc2412 Agreed.....5'7" and 28" inseam here. The bike are getting ridiculously tall. I'm 50 years old so I know what it was like riding in the late 80's early 90's. I never had the issues I have now (and I've never been over 5'7" in case someone says I shrunk! LMAO). These new bike are approaching 39" seat heights!!! I have a 2023 KTM SX-F 350.....HAD to lower it 1" and put a guts 20mm lower seat on. Definitely helped but STILL could use another inch for secure footing when woods/trail riding. Being under 5'9" SUCKS!!! LOLOLOL
If they last as long as a Japanese bike. Make a 350,450. Should also come with the aftermarket pipe from the dealership. They will sell like hot cakes if they do.
@@denniswilder3014 so you have to change the crank, and rod, and piston, and head to get 350. Where was logic in "to add a shim and longer rod to get a 350"?
@@inevespacecc is bore x stroke by my quick math they could keep same piston size square the motor a little better and ad 20mm to the stroke and get 350 cc . Not hard to move a pin 3/4 of a inch if there intentions are figured into the crank and crankcase design
@@denniswilder3014 20mm is very-very big change in geometry of crank and rod. The gap between crank and case is usually 3-5 mm only. You need to compromise 250 performance like crazy to implement such "potential upgrade". KTM increase stroke from 250 to 450 only by 15mm.
It looks like an 09 Yamaha with a KTM engine. Sounds like they tried to take all the best characteristics of the competition and apply to their bike. The black is ugly, they could have used that Triumph green with red and white highlights. I can't stand Carmichael so his association with this project leaves me not wanting one, but what is the cost? 12 or 13 grand, being that you really highlighted the fit and finish. Thank U for the content ML512.
Crank-rated HP is 48, we're not sure on the rear wheel HP rating (which is more comparable to other bikes and the numbers we usually state). Weight is 229 full of fuel and ready to ride. This ties it for the lightest 250 in class with the CRF250R.
Given KTM is going all China I will be moving my future bike purchases to Triumph. Please make a FI 2 stroke with a counter balancer and a 350 dual sport.
Saying it’s so linear is saying it’s slow. Even Swoll said the race bike was slow. I bet in the stock class the thing gets waxed off the start by a Yamaha.
ok so the first 5 min of the video is just a guy explaining the 568 changes he made on the chassis to feel confortable... just to tell us that for general consumers it's ok :/
Huge let down..after years of teasing ..the consumer was praying for innovation..the result?.. another boring generic copycat of every other 250 out there.. regardless of the spin , there is no reason for anyone to switch brands to Triumph..and it get worse..the average age of the typical Triumph buyer is mid 50s..... Maybe Ducati will give us a breath of fresh air..
Black and white KTM imagine that….with an even higher price the 450 will be $15,000 these manufactures don’t want normal people to get into the sport only people with money just like car manufactures
But it doesn’t have a single ktm part 🤣 its engine is last gen ktm “inspired” which is good that engine is a screamer, best in class in hp for years & it has most holeshots in its class in 250gps by a long mile. Looks like triumph improved on it. I’d go up 1 or 2 tooth on the rear and change to 110 just like ml said, and you have an epic bike
We want your questions! What do you want to know about the Triumph TF 250-X. 👇🤔
What's actual sea level HP? Rumor is 51 HP.
Did they license the engine and frame from Austria. Literally identical other than obviously made out of aluminum
@@Runk3lsmcdougal Frame is more 'old Yamaha'.
@@johnny89racer it's not tho it's literally identical to a ktms, the engine mounts , shock tower. Identical
@@johnny89racer bet $100s a Yamaha engine won't mount up in there , but a ktms will
Hoping they make a 350… take my money🔥 KTM has that market on lock, someone needs to tap into it
We spoke to their staff about a 350. They were non-committal but also interested and doing the market research on potentially producing one.
The should make a 400, a short-stroke 450 would be so flickable.
@vitalmx My dealership has Triumph and got some inside info quite a while ago, Rc did some testing here it was real hush hush, now that the cat's out of the bag, what we heard is there not against a 350. This is very early in production, and it looks to me like a solid production model, especially for the first bike. Well done Triumph can't wait to test it out.🤙🏁
I would definitely be more comfortable buying a 350 than a 250 or 450 but I can understand that doesn't really fit the classes and would be more aimed toward woods riders and hobby riders but the market is there especially with the piston design and lower maintenance is huge
It's a new platform so might be possible 👍
Your breakdowns are always so informative, your understanding of the kind of things we’d be most interested in knowing keeps me coming to Vital for the sort of things I can’t seem to get anywhere else!
Thanks!
I appreciate that! - ML
I know ML has been back in reviewing and testing bikes for some time now, but man I really love seeing him getting back to form. Reminds me of when I first started riding again in 2018 and just looked at all the shootouts.
And seeing Triumph produce a good bike and being this open is just great, really seems like it is competing for the podium.
Absolute best evaluation of the three I have seen today (which is day 1 World Launch and at Gatorback Cycle Park, and which I drove by today after dropping kids off at middle school). I really wanted to go on turf and watch the launch industry rides. I am amazed at how well you absorbed everything, especially the engine break down while not even looking like you needed notes. You asked great questions and gave an excellent evaluation. Top shelf man. Well done. Bike seems to have a good starting basis. My current bikes are KTM350's.
I don’t really take notes and I don’t rehearse or script these. I just sit down and talk. Just trying to be genuine and informative. - ML
Well, I sold my KX450 and looking to re-continue riding on a 250 you just about convinced me it's OK to buy the first model/run of a new bike... and this bikes seems really solid. Thanks for the detailed review.
By far best review and information on this bike. Great detail and content.
Thanks! I tried to nail every aspect and so info about the manufacturing and what I learned about the brand. - ML
thanks for the info.. with all the talk of suspension, it would be great to hear WHY you went which way you went with clickers and such. All the numbers are great, but what were you looking for when you make "X" adjustment? ei; why would go 3 clicks stiffer on compression, 2 clicks faster on rebound. (just as an example) maybe do a solid video on suspension settings on what to do if your bike does THIS. and go over what happens if you go the wrong way.. just spit balling here.. lol.. Thanks for all the great vids!
Great review! Excited as hell for this bike
Excellent review Michael, one of the best I’ve seen. Great job!
thx i did it myse4lf
Thank you Top work Been hanging for one popular test rider ride triumph new TF 250X Magic job all 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾
Rear sprocket up to a 49 tooth and the 110 rear tire. Problem solved for little money. For deeper pockets, an aftermarket exhaust. Done!
Another excellent insight Michael - you win the review shootout again. Very impressed with the Triumph - I appreciate you clarifying the componentry and similarities with other brands.
Very well done Mike.
Excellent review. The knowledge you have is overwhelming to me. Talk about experience and a possession of technical expertise! I've never heard someone present so much detailed and precise information. Thanks.
Super clean, I am so impressed!!!!!!!!!!!
Great review---gives a comprehensive picture of the bike in just 22 minutes.Great delivery. If he was doing this for print, it would already be written, and written well.
Awesome job, best review so far. Thank you
Best review Ive seen! Thanks!
Looks like a work of art. Kick ass review.
I just sold my KX250 and ordered a new Triumph!!!! Can't wait!!!!!
Come back and tell us what you think?
Did you get it yet?
In my opinion Lindsay is one of the best guys for bike reviews. Gives the interesting technical details we want to know and doesn't over hype the bikes. Some of the other reviewers make every bike sound like the best thing ever
Think you done a great job with the review. Nice one ML
Thanks! Put some serious effort into this one. - ML
Very nice looking bike. Seems like they nailed it
I gotta say I'm impressed with your riding! on the balls of your feet. Toes tucked in, heals down. Knees are back looks very good. Almost as good as AJ.
Been working on my foot work. Now I need to fix my hunching and some of my upper body form. - ML
Excited to see Savatgy on this thing this summer!
sure appreciate this fine review!
The additional ring keeps the piston much cooler, the ring is the primary path for heat dissipation from the piston.
Now that’s a great review!!
Probably the best 'release day video' I've watched, even if you do use the term "front side character' LOL
Tried to pack it full of useful information. - ML
I tell all the ladies I've got front side character
Good to be alive.
Damn I want one!
For us mechanics the single spar frames tend to make things a bit more hard when wrenching on them with the engine in frame. But otherwise this bike looks really good. Very informative as always ML.
Yamaha and KTM together for a one night stand and this came out 9 months later
Everyone hating on Torx. It's way better once you get past YOUR stubbornness and actually use it.
I use it almost exclusively on my 6 KTMs. Easier to get the tool on, especially on inset/flush hardware, and also keeps your hardware/bike looking much cleaner without the tool marks and corrosion on the outside like on the hex stuff. Probably don't notice this kind of stuff living in California and getting brand new bikes every couple months, but it makes a big difference on several year old bikes and in corrosive environments.
Look at the front pinch bolts and seat bolts on the next 10 used bikes you see, and you'll see why Torx is great.
So it is set up Euroesque, soft bottom, softer suspension, emphasis on stability. Sounds set more for the GP circuit, like the older KTMs.
I like it 😀
I would assume that with the tuning app you could increase that bottom end power some.
Good review. So to confirm, they bought KTM's old machines and jigs for the engine, and Yamaha's old tooling for the frame. Makes sense.
Who makes their stock exhaust? In Matt Burkeen’s YT video I heard it was Akropovic.
The race team uses Akrapovic and there's a customer system already available for the bike as an option or later purchase from Triumph dealers. The stock exhaust is sourced from a different vendor at Triumph's specifications. The Akrapovic produces more power from 6,000 to 13,000 RPM by their claims.
I knew it. Triumph is going to flood market. I had a feeling guess we all do, KYB AND LOOKS LIKE A 2010’s aluminum spine frame just engine was my question
I’m ready for Ducatti and rumors about who will be riding for them🔥
I really wish they went with a better colorway.
I might hafta get me one😊
Looks great. When can I get a 250fx model for gncc?
Probably for 2025.
Sounds solid. They did right by hiring a bunch of people in the industry as well as getting competitive product and use it to both test and evaluate design. Nothing groundbreaking, though. But, that's a safe approach, and they did it right.
What I find kinda funny is nobody on the boards complain about Triumph ripping off the other manufacturers' design. Anytime there's a bike (or product) from China, all of the talk is how the Chinese rip off everyone else. Reality is, the Chinese do that about as much as any other product developer. Been in the development industry for 30 years, and that's pretty much how it's done....leveraging (or ripping off, if you want to call it) previous designs and here and there innovating or improving.
Watched aĺl of them, circa midnight post embargo.
I'm old so have to give whiskey throttle the knod for star power with Yogi, but otherwise, best.
Well done ML.
Edited to say: Fische? Parts fiche? You're not old enough to use that term. 😂
I am confused.
Not a heavy guy here, 75kg - 150pnds? I think the suspension is spot on "fast B grade" Im 5' 6"
How is the cockpit for Taller/Shorter riders?
Confused about the adjustable cam gears ? you mean the user can do this ? would be great for offroad torque. Also great you "had to go stiffer" always a sign of a compliant chassis. Easier to fix than "too stiff" which is usually rigid chassis.. 3 Ring piston is very 2009 yamaha. Prob cost a little power, but great if it comes out in an enduro model.
Would really like to see them build a 300 four-stroke for Enduro.
I just got mine what oil wt to use? They gave me the wrong manual
ML- How about suspension, wheels etc . Does anything fit from other brands ? Ktm wheels or yzf shock/ forks ? pegs etc
Pegs are 100% unique and I’m waiting for an answer on wheels. Shock is unique to them I believe. Only thing that is similar is an RM-Z250 shock but I believe it’s a little different. Forks are similar to YZ but a little different.
✊🏽✊🏽👍🏼
Ready for the Enduro. Might be trading the 350....
BRIDGESTONE X10 110/90-19 ON 1.85 RIM IS THE BEST TIRE FOR 250.
Would you please do a suspension video - you seem like a great instructor. Would love to hear a teaching video / your thought processes of when the bike does this or that you try this or that
About to setup a beta 300rx and im not a great tester 😁
We have a video on fork and shock setup! Go to our videos and swap to most watched tab, it'll appear near the top of the list.
When is the 450 coming out?
End of 2024 is what we were told at the event. Should be announced in the next six months or so.
Do they have any plans to throw a 125 or 250 two stroke engine into the frame? Any idea what the plans are (if any) for a 65 and 85?
No two-strokes.
Did Triumph say anything about a mini/supermini bike (four-stroke 150)?
My previous comment “ what I’m hearing is they’ve taken a Ktm engine, liked what they saw, tweaked it and then produced their own engine” seems to have disappeared?
I will add that all through the tedious run up to the bikes release there were loads of commentators, officials and general public, denying the fact that the engine even looked like a KTM let alone was inspired by it, yet in this presentation Triumph has apparently admitted it at the press Q&A briefing.
What octane fuel did you run today? Higher octane usually means more torque more power… May give you a little down low like you asked for
91 pump gas.
What is the seat height? I hope they sell a low seat like the KTM group does as a shorter guy
I'm 5'6" so I was curious too, I had the 22.5 Factory Edition Husky 450 it was tall, same as the KTM, factory edition isn't lower like the production Husky,but I still felt comfortable. There getting a little excessive with seat height for us vertically challenged ppl 😂🤙🏁
@@holeshotinspectionllc2412 Agreed.....5'7" and 28" inseam here. The bike are getting ridiculously tall. I'm 50 years old so I know what it was like riding in the late 80's early 90's. I never had the issues I have now (and I've never been over 5'7" in case someone says I shrunk! LMAO). These new bike are approaching 39" seat heights!!! I have a 2023 KTM SX-F 350.....HAD to lower it 1" and put a guts 20mm lower seat on. Definitely helped but STILL could use another inch for secure footing when woods/trail riding. Being under 5'9" SUCKS!!! LOLOLOL
I would like to see and enduro with WR transmission to match the type of riding I do. Perhaps make it a 300 for the torque.
😎
Every OEM should make a 350 trail bike
If they last as long as a Japanese bike. Make a 350,450. Should also come with the aftermarket pipe from the dealership. They will sell like hot cakes if they do.
Any word on when they’ll be in dealerships
In the next week or two.
Im wondering if they gave it a smaller stroke to add a shim and longer rod to get a 350 out of it.
do you realize that length of the rod does not affect displacement?
@@inevespace it does if yo change the stroke of the motor.
@@denniswilder3014 so you have to change the crank, and rod, and piston, and head to get 350. Where was logic in "to add a shim and longer rod to get a 350"?
@@inevespacecc is bore x stroke by my quick math they could keep same piston size square the motor a little better and ad 20mm to the stroke and get 350 cc . Not hard to move a pin 3/4 of a inch if there intentions are figured into the crank and crankcase design
@@denniswilder3014 20mm is very-very big change in geometry of crank and rod. The gap between crank and case is usually 3-5 mm only. You need to compromise 250 performance like crazy to implement such "potential upgrade". KTM increase stroke from 250 to 450 only by 15mm.
It looks like an 09 Yamaha with a KTM engine. Sounds like they tried to take all the best characteristics of the competition and apply to their bike. The black is ugly, they could have used that Triumph green with red and white highlights. I can't stand Carmichael so his association with this project leaves me not wanting one, but what is the cost? 12 or 13 grand, being that you really highlighted the fit and finish. Thank U for the content ML512.
$9995. Less than a KTM or Husky.
@BigDadsMoto Thanks! You buying one?
Wat is it HP and weight
Crank-rated HP is 48, we're not sure on the rear wheel HP rating (which is more comparable to other bikes and the numbers we usually state). Weight is 229 full of fuel and ready to ride. This ties it for the lightest 250 in class with the CRF250R.
I'm guessing 40.2 at 13,900 😂 total guesstimate 🏁🤙
I knew it would be good after all they've got ricky carmichael Helping through the process testing and building
Given KTM is going all China I will be moving my future bike purchases to Triumph. Please make a FI 2 stroke with a counter balancer and a 350 dual sport.
They only moved the duke and super duke production to China… not the mx
309th ! 😅
Saying it’s so linear is saying it’s slow. Even Swoll said the race bike was slow. I bet in the stock class the thing gets waxed off the start by a Yamaha.
I'm guessing the X in the model does not mean enduro model? lol
ok so the first 5 min of the video is just a guy explaining the 568 changes he made on the chassis to feel confortable... just to tell us that for general consumers it's ok :/
I don't know why Indian chose Bosche ECU. they should of gone with triumph ECU. My FTR mapping is garbage out of the box.
Pretty sick 😷
First
Here's a cookie! Thanks for watching.
Second
Huge let down..after years of teasing ..the consumer was praying for innovation..the result?.. another boring generic copycat of every other 250 out there.. regardless of the spin , there is no reason for anyone to switch brands to Triumph..and it get worse..the average age of the typical Triumph buyer is mid 50s..... Maybe Ducati will give us a breath of fresh air..
Black and white KTM imagine that….with an even higher price the 450 will be $15,000 these manufactures don’t want normal people to get into the sport only people with money just like car manufactures
If you got a problem with bike prices go buy a used yz250. More bike than 90% of riders will ever need.
But it doesn’t have a single ktm part 🤣 its engine is last gen ktm “inspired” which is good that engine is a screamer, best in class in hp for years & it has most holeshots in its class in 250gps by a long mile. Looks like triumph improved on it. I’d go up 1 or 2 tooth on the rear and change to 110 just like ml said, and you have an epic bike
53.a Hello, how about founding a company 50 percent you 50 percent MDA Thuringia with the name Triumph Tour custom bike with special conversions instead of 1 cylinder then 4 smaller ones that tension a spring to recuperate pressure when the piston goes up to the cylinder To activate the crankshaft with a hydrogen gas injector of the 4 cylinders, the package with decoration kit should cost 7500 euros. With a motorcycle new vehicle financing purchase from motorcycle manufacturers your AGK DTS Hypo Economist Concept Institute maison des associations Thuringia united Germany Protestant Union weaponsmith Factory ©®™
Japan is getting their asses kicked, again. Only Yamaha can be competitive in the offroad sector. Europe fully took over in the motocycle world.