The Desmodromic valve system has been around since the late 1800's (Gustav Mees filed for patents) and in 1914 the French automobile maker Delage used the desmodromic system in their Grand Prix cars. Ducati's Fabio Taglioni "redeveloped" the system for their 125 Grand Prix engines in 1956.
@karldogg9481 No, YOU don't care, and as unfortunate as it might be for your ego to hear, you don't speak for anyone else and the world doesn't revolve around you or cater to your opinions and feelings...Let others enjoy the information that's being provided, some of us like to learn new things, and take your pointless narcissism elsewhere
Couldn't have said it better bro, With all the cr@p going on in the world, it's been a breath of fresh air to see Motorcycle legends like Triumph & Ducati join the MX fray!! It's really exciting for MX, With riders like RC working with Triumph and Antonio Cairolli working with Ducati, shℹ️t is about to get real for The big Jap 4, and KTM/Husky/Gas Gas. etc.
The modern Desmo design is not the nightmare to adjust the internet claims. It is as simple as any other overhead cam. It just has 2 shims per valve instead of 1 shim per valve. It is very durable and reliable. Ducati MultiStrada specifies 30,000 km between valve checks on the Desmo. A valve check does not mean adjustment. Because modern metals do not stretch as much as metals 30 years ago, it is not uncommon for the valves to not need new shims.
The Italians just do it better. I have a vintage Italian Husky that is a fantastic motorcycle. Beta is on fire in the Enduro GPs and now we have Ducati. And let's not forget the handcrafted work of art known as TM...
They do it with style, not better. The japanese are the king of balance. Form and function. The desmodromic valve system isnt revolutionary, it's antiquated. Still excited to see another brand in the line up. Beautiful looking machine
@@easley421 They do it better than the japanese . Euro bikes have beaten the japanese in ...every comparison for the last 16 years strait ..... euro bikes have superior engineering
@@jake88ci comparison and competition are two different things. I don't know what comparisons your watching but it's unanimous that Yamaha has the best Motocross bike ATM. Japan has the Motocross genre locked down and has for years. You're allowed to your own opinions though and I respect that.
Government gives them our money to enter the flooded market (bike sales have never been lower), to kick off electric bikes (that is the plan son), and you cheer them on? Maybe we should not have destroyed Cannondale just over 20 years ago. Joe Montgomery (the CEO), was not getting in bed with communist to steal our profits from us. We don't know what we are looking at here. But it is how our new communistic world works, and nobody really new and independent (like Cannondale), will ever be able to compete. That is your personal opportunity lost, and you won't be able to afford the damn government dictated bikes.
@@kingkire1556 Good one. We need to sue our schools. They have kids thinking that everything we were free to produce, grew on trees. Cars ar the same way man, we don't learn. The EPA and government safety standards have more than tripled the cost of a car. it is the regulation, that kills what we built, and our prosperity that came with it. communism's newer tool to destroy free enterprise,----take it over.
Probably won't see a production bike til mid to late '25 from what I have read. I will definitely pay whatever the msrp is when the time comes. I just want it because it'll be cool and unique in a sea of clones.
Yes, there is no static resistance of a spring. But the spring could also break, rare but it has happened. With the desmo system the cam itself, fingers or bobins would have to fail for the bike to lose timing. Very interesting. I remember Mercedes using a Desmodromic system on a car years ago. It does pre-date Ducati. Regardless, more bikes with power equals more fun for us, the consumer!
There is static resistance/force of a compression spring that is preloaded but not moving. I have not even watched the propaganda vid yet, but with higher rpm's, it gets harder to control the spring compression (where it stops), when the cam changes it's direction, (the spring mass and valve wants to keep going instead of change direction with the cam--valve floating.). Not bad for a guy who builds 2-stroke engines for a living huh. :) OK,--more fun, for less consumers, as we go broke.
As a Ferrari F8 Spider owner and a 2023 Ducati Panigale V4 R, i think it's a cinch that the Ducati red will look the best...nobody does Red better than the Italians.
WOW! I love the way Ducati moves those valves! Thanks for the demonstration! I cant wait to see all these new bikes racing together in the bewr future! Cheers!
Funny, when I was your age, I could not wait to ride my affordable bike. All you can do is watch today? You should not be cheering, you should be angry.
Man its inspiring to see the confidence you have working on bikes. I only started this year and still too nervous to do a simple valve check. Learning everyday with the help of this channel so thank you!
Learning is like that all the time if you keep doing things to learn from. I have been at this kind of stuff for almost 50 years and have seen a lot, but I still get nervous every time I tear into something new. Yes, you can make mistakes, but embrace it anyway, because it is exciting, and you will look forward to the learning process. Then maybe you can invent something better than this. Imagine how exciting that is, from your experienced mind. It is how everything was made. Have fun. It's worth it. :)
As an old school arena cross rider from way back when I can honestly say I'd ride it. I'm kinda partial to the old 500cc 2 strokes though power is power.
I"ve owned Ducati's for 30+ years so happy they are joining the mix. BTW KTM has had the rear brake lever tucked behind the frame for more than 25 years.
Learn something every day!! Never really thought about how Desmond worked before, cheers.👍🏼 But, to be honest. I don’t think more power is what a 450 mx bike needs. I have seen interviews with the best in the world who say they cling on for dear life and they are along got the ride and not always in control!!!😂😂
Owned a 1967 Ducati Scrambler, then a 350 scrambler and in 1973 a 450 desmo scrambler. Nice bikes. Overall the 250 was the nicest of the bikes. Ducati should have done this 30 years ago. I doubt they will overwhelm the existing manufacturers
I think that Ducati is going to shake the industry up and it is nice to see yet another European brand entering the arena. My hope is that when production does begin for the general consumer that the pricing does not end up making it a niche bike. Ducati does tend to bring a more lofty asking price compared to Japanese machines and even those are becoming harder to justify the asking prices when you consider you can purchase a base model Maverick pickup for just a few thousand more dollars. I mean ti put this in perspective a 2024 450 SXF by KTM is running almost $13.5 after destination and setup and that isn't even a Factory Works model. The Japanese 4 come in for a 2024 450 model at 13k for the Kawasaki and the other 3 between 9 and 10 grand depending on incentives and surcharges. If Ducati and Triumph exceed the KTM, Husky, and Kawi price tag by more than say 500 bucks I do not think they will gain much of the market interest outside of pro riders. Should be interesting to see what happens come race season too because if the track performances of the European newcomers does not live up to the past couple years of anticipation and hype, I do not see them doing well in general consumer sales. Just my opinion anyway.
Pricing won't make it a niche bike, it's limited production will. Ducati doesn't make many bikes per year - even though they are owned by VW they are essentially a small company. Ducati started building bikes around the same year as Honda. The year Ducati built bike number 1 million, Honda built bike number 300 million. The Ducati will cost around 15% more than a Honda and they'll sell every one of them they make. Which won't be many.
@@DezmoDog the reason I put it in a niche bike category is because of what it costs to make a modern interpretation of a KX or CR 500 using the latest chassis and updated engine tech. It was close to 15k to build a Service Honda CR 500 AF spec’d out almost 10 years ago and they are a very niche bike and like you mentioned low production numbers for the Ducati would be the main factor but from my standpoint the pricing also factors in because it limits who can feasibly access the units. 16 to 17k for an MX bike is a lot of money if you are an independent amateur rider or simply a weekend warrior hobbyist. Just saying.
So it looks like that will give you more flex and more feel and more comfort as the frame will not have those really rigid adhesion points due to the welding. I think it’s a great idea that’s definitely like injection molding that they’re doing there. We’ll see what happens.
Watch Ducati force a rule change in professional racing if this engine lives up to its potential. Desmo tech is proven, and I can’t imagine how high a 250 could rev. God bless Italy, and welcome to the world of off-road
Ducati didn't invented desmo but the developed it and patented the development, so the other manufacturer can't use them. For the adjustment, this is the fun one.. in normal valve spring dohc engine usually you adjust the clearance arround 60.000 - 100.000 KM. For road use Desmo max is 30.000 KM, racing engine max is 12.000 KM so this is the downside of the desmo, needs maintenance more often. The valve have 2 shim, opening shim, and closing shim who also act as valve collet retainer.
Special permission for what a dictatorship wants us to make and ride. That rule killed free enterprise advancements, and the bikes would be a lot more affordable with out it. (and the 1986 production rule, that also tripled the cost of a bike in 5 years with almost no new advancements like seen for a decade before that rule.)
The YZM was a Yamaha works bike in Europe (aluminum frame) from 1988, 2 years after it was said Yamaha could not afford to make works bikes, and spearheaded the 1986 production for the USA only. They still make works stuff for Europe today. The 1986 production rule, as explained, is a lie. Behind it was the FIM wanting to stop bike development in the USA with the factories, because we won the MXofN 5 times in a row. Both the 1986 rule and the 4-stoke forced on the industry, are the biggest factors of the sports decline by far. We need to demand our free enterprise back, because government is running our great sport into the dirt.
In motocross the design of the bike has reached a sweet spot years ago. Power is not the issue, nor torque. Its is traction and suspension, and even there, it is the ability of the team and rider to fine adjust for the circumstances what makes the winner. And the biggest part of succes is the talent of the rider. The bike is not that important anymore. That makes the sport so nice and competitive, unlike formula 1 where you never can win without a big budget. By the way, the desmo system that Ducati uses is to avoid "valve floating" at high rpm. Motoscross bikes not running at very high rpm's. It has also disadvantages, one is a heavier construction, more mass to accelerate. If all of these design choices you talk about would be so much better, the other brands would allready have applied them, they are not stupid. And there are no "best" brands, only better products, that come with a higher price.
Just to let you know that the Ducati desmo valve train has been designed That way so the Engine can Rev more than engines with Springs engines with Springs can suffer valve bounce at high revs. Therefore, the Ducati is designed to rev more And deliver more power good video. Thanks
Desmodromic was not primarly invented to reduce mechanical drag. It was developed to close the valves of a high reving fourstroke faster, than springs can. When the crank an piston can stand high revs, its the movement of the valves, that limits more. To enable the closing of valves at high rpm, without crazyly strong valvesprings etc. and with steel valves (not titanium with all its downsides about valveseat and cost etc.) It is desmodromic, what is needed to not suffer fluttering valves...
Ive heard of that valve system ages ago but never knew the principles involved... it should not only add HP across the board becuz of greatly reduced friction but should also all but eliminate any issues regarding valve float at high rpms...in fact this will likely be one of the highest revving 450 dirt bike motors out there becuz of the desmo system..wait for the 1st rides and the dyno #'s
rode a 900 SS desmo v-2...wow!...Phil Shiling, an ex editor of cycle world magazine had a race team on 900 ducati desmo's...they did a bunch of improvements and seems i remember those Vtwins spinning at 14,000 rpm!
Actually, Desmodronic was refined in the late 1930’s in the airplane industry, Originally designed in the 1890’s but not really used due to lack of ability to properly heat treat parts yet. First started being used in WW2 by the Swiss and Germans.
Too bad Aprilia left the train. With the MXV they had figured out most of the problems. Also if you do the known updates/ upgrades to your XV it will last without a problem as long as an EXC.
Idk, Desmo is neat, but i doubt it will be crazy different. Its a holdover from when material science wasnt up to snuff for springs. Now we have bikes going to 16-18k rpm with a warranty on valve springs.
Well this is exciting. I look forward to getting to ride one. Appearance makes it seem well thought out and put together. Exciting times. Typically there is still a lash spring in the system of desmo controlled valves. The rear brake pedal tucked inside the frame has been on KTMs since 1990 ish and still there on KTMs now including all KTMs clone army. Maybe other brands earlier. Front fender agreed is a huge mud trap. KTM had some big troughs there in the past and in mud race you would get several pounds trapped there.
Ducati coming to motocross is even better than Triumph All of their bikes are normal “full-on” beasts. Absolutely no “valve-float” with the Desmo valve train. Bet the motor makes 15 -20% more power than other brands. And never forget the hard fought lessons Ducati went through developing a frame riders could win with in Moto GP.
So. My issues with Ducati, is one, here in Melbourne, there’s only three dealers, so it’s a pain in the arse if you need anything “factory” done. Two, you only get 2 year’s warranty and roadside assist- you need to buy an extended warranty, of only 12 or 24 months, so for a prestige manufacturer that’s really unacceptable. BMW gives you 5 years and 3 years roadside IN THE PRICE! Three, some stupid design decisions - why on earth do they shove the air filter under the tank on the Desert X? It’s an hour and a half to get the tank off. Imagine you’re in the desert, on an extended trip, and you need to check it…! And it requires 185nm of force on the rear axle nut! So when you do chain tension, or need to put an emergency tube in, you need to carry a long handled spanner to get it off, or one that breaks down into pieces. Really, really stupid.
I disagree about the front fender looks cool and it’s a reinforcement for strength. I think of some of the early ktm fenders would flap around more then normal. Ducati will stay nice and firm, also good aesthetic. I hope they keep it just like that. Would love to ride one I rode mostly Hondas and Yamahas that me started in street ducatis would love to ride mx on one.
First of all I like the style even that front fender they are using. That makes them unique & very Ducati like bike. Everything you have said are good & made for performance. Although without any MX race under their belt. I'm sure of the components might a bit change if they can find some more performance in some areas. Anyway we we'll see. They have got two great riders who develops this MX bike.
I think all the plastic designers come from the "Batman school of abstract art" college. Abstract art has no place on my functional dirt bike. You can keep the bat wings and arrow tips,---what ever they are for. I replaced my front fender with an older model, and went "Ronnie Mac" on the rest of the cartoon plastic. Looks great. What are those wings for anyway? The artist does not even know.
Well it sounds competitive. Is it really one of the lighter bikes? Does it really have the most power and by how much? Most all the top bikes in this class have all the top shelf stuff to go with. Lets wait and see about results and reliability, handling, etc..
So here in 2024 when valve float is somewhat a thing of the past so why desmo? The system requires minimal hp to open the valves and mainly you can run a very radical cam profile without skip or float. BTW Taglioni went with the desmo system that Mercedes had perfected at the time (1950s). I just bought the hypermotard 698 and I love it!! Very fast too.
Ducati did NOT invent Desmo valves, Daimler-Benz invented Desmo valves in 1889......most of the current Ducati tech comes from the parent company Volkswagon.
The only times when Ducati sell bike with parrent company tech is the ducati with variable timing, and e bikes. Most of their tech on road bikes are derived from their racing bike development on Motogp and WSBK
It's factually not true that the Desmodromic system has no springs. It's just that the springs are there to keep the rocker against the cam lobe, instead of having to close the valve. There is definitely resistance when you try to turn the cam shafts on these heads.
Its great to have more OEMs on the circuit. But....do they all have to be backed by Monster??? First Kawi, now Yammie. Now it appears that Ducati will be Monster backed. How long before Monster absorbes Suzuki? Monster already backs Honda, in rally raid, and Baja. So... the clock is ticking on "Monster Honda" backing. I get that Red Bull KTM, and GasGas is a thing. Red Bull used to be a big thing in outdoors, but no more. Rockstar Husky is a minor player now . Our group started a drinking game, a few years ago..."take a shot every time Lee Doofus, or RC say Monster Energy". ....none of us were conscious at the first 250 heat gate drop!!!
Look at the Koenigsegg car engine. It has pneumatic valves and computer timing. Zero friction engine rotation. This would be necessary if petrol engines are to keep up with electric.
Love your clips mate! just wondering with the frame/head stem being one piece, obviously a forged piece, gee if they want to change any characteristics(?) of flex etc that would mean a whole new die? not as easy or cheap to change any minor detail issues? maybe thats why they are not going into production for a while, they would want to get this rigity/flexability correct? just a thought, keep up your great work! cheers from Australia
I think you misspoke. Maybe most powerful single cylinder 4 stroke. That does not include 2 strokes. 2 strokes cc for cc will always be more powerful still.
I believe Cagiva also runs the rear brake lever behind the frame. But I would rather you have been a salesman for Cannodale 24 years ago, because they did not take anybodies money to make a launch bike into electric. I think we get dumber every generation since the 60's, and I don't think it is an accident.
The bikes have to win! This is what sells so they will have to spend millions to get the best riders on these bikes no matter how good they are. I guess they have been working on this a while so they built a 4 stroke and the reason this is a problem is there is a huge rise in the sale of new and used 2 strokes. They should have and still should build a 2 stroke and make sure that bike wins in the 450 class. If they built a 300 or 350 it would easily win if it was a 2 stroke a racing against the 4 strokes.
The head is very tall, and I measure from the photo that it may be the tallest bike in seat height. That is not a plus in MX, but MXA has accepted tall bikes. So will we,---again. I have never seen so many amateurs (go-pros still allowed for amateurs), so slow in corners.
DesmoDROMIC, not DesmoTRONIC 😂😂😂 In any case I think you missed an important point: the single frame is another trademark from Ducati. All their sport bikes have the single frame, from MotoGp to Panigale V4.
This is definitely a totally new bike and it being a Ducati you can be certain they paid attention to detail. I think I’ll wait until they get a little cheaper though. Lol
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
The Desmodromic valve system has been around since the late 1800's (Gustav Mees filed for patents) and in 1914 the French automobile maker Delage used the desmodromic system in their Grand Prix cars. Ducati's Fabio Taglioni "redeveloped" the system for their 125 Grand Prix engines in 1956.
thanks for sharing David, I was referring to Fabio Taglioni 1956 desmo design in the video. Good to know the very beginning of the technology
Curious how theyhold the valve
Im guessing essentially it is like the clasp for them lil chains like for them lil change purses
@karldogg9481
No, YOU don't care, and as unfortunate as it might be for your ego to hear, you don't speak for anyone else and the world doesn't revolve around you or cater to your opinions and feelings...Let others enjoy the information that's being provided, some of us like to learn new things, and take your pointless narcissism elsewhere
Everything about the bike sounds great. Only I would change from Pirelli Tires to Dunlop Tires. Unless, they have finally, finally improve them?!?
At a time when battery powered everything is being pushed upon us... it's awesome to see Triumph and Ducati making all new engines!
Couldn't have said it better bro, With all the cr@p going on in the world, it's been a breath of fresh air to see Motorcycle legends like Triumph & Ducati join the MX fray!! It's really exciting for MX, With riders like RC working with Triumph and Antonio Cairolli working with Ducati, shℹ️t is about to get real for The big Jap 4, and KTM/Husky/Gas Gas. etc.
The modern Desmo design is not the nightmare to adjust the internet claims. It is as simple as any other overhead cam. It just has 2 shims per valve instead of 1 shim per valve. It is very durable and reliable. Ducati MultiStrada specifies 30,000 km between valve checks on the Desmo. A valve check does not mean adjustment. Because modern metals do not stretch as much as metals 30 years ago, it is not uncommon for the valves to not need new shims.
The Italians just do it better. I have a vintage Italian Husky that is a fantastic motorcycle. Beta is on fire in the Enduro GPs and now we have Ducati. And let's not forget the handcrafted work of art known as TM...
thanks for sharing
@@dirtniron thanks for the great content
They do it with style, not better. The japanese are the king of balance. Form and function. The desmodromic valve system isnt revolutionary, it's antiquated. Still excited to see another brand in the line up. Beautiful looking machine
@@easley421 They do it better than the japanese . Euro bikes have beaten the japanese in ...every comparison for the last 16 years strait ..... euro bikes have superior engineering
@@jake88ci comparison and competition are two different things. I don't know what comparisons your watching but it's unanimous that Yamaha has the best Motocross bike ATM. Japan has the Motocross genre locked down and has for years. You're allowed to your own opinions though and I respect that.
Bring it on! More brands the better for riders. We need a price war next. Lol -NY
This!
This is going to be so buried in patents that the others won't be able to reproduce it competitively.
oh there will be a price war. It will be for who can sell the most expensive.
Government gives them our money to enter the flooded market (bike sales have never been lower), to kick off electric bikes (that is the plan son), and you cheer them on?
Maybe we should not have destroyed Cannondale just over 20 years ago. Joe Montgomery (the CEO), was not getting in bed with communist to steal our profits from us.
We don't know what we are looking at here. But it is how our new communistic world works, and nobody really new and independent (like Cannondale), will ever be able to compete. That is your personal opportunity lost, and you won't be able to afford the damn government dictated bikes.
@@kingkire1556 Good one. We need to sue our schools. They have kids thinking that everything we were free to produce, grew on trees.
Cars ar the same way man, we don't learn. The EPA and government safety standards have more than tripled the cost of a car. it is the regulation, that kills what we built, and our prosperity that came with it. communism's newer tool to destroy free enterprise,----take it over.
The era of the $20k dirt bike has arrived…
Blame your government for that. Everyone voted for inflation for some unknown reason.
It will probably come 12k not 20
@@fqeagles21 and the same day that happens they'll roll out the free cure for cancer lol
@@fqeagles21 I would wager about $14k plus fees.
@@petebusch9069 No we did not. They rigged the results and stole the election. 🐴🔨
Probably won't see a production bike til mid to late '25 from what I have read. I will definitely pay whatever the msrp is when the time comes. I just want it because it'll be cool and unique in a sea of clones.
same
Yes, there is no static resistance of a spring. But the spring could also break, rare but it has happened. With the desmo system the cam itself, fingers or bobins would have to fail for the bike to lose timing. Very interesting. I remember Mercedes using a Desmodromic system on a car years ago. It does pre-date Ducati. Regardless, more bikes with power equals more fun for us, the consumer!
The real problem with the spring is that the valve can float and hit the piston.
There is static resistance/force of a compression spring that is preloaded but not moving. I have not even watched the propaganda vid yet, but with higher rpm's, it gets harder to control the spring compression (where it stops), when the cam changes it's direction, (the spring mass and valve wants to keep going instead of change direction with the cam--valve floating.). Not bad for a guy who builds 2-stroke engines for a living huh. :)
OK,--more fun, for less consumers, as we go broke.
@@EarthSurferUSA The new engine uses desmodromic valve train, there are no springs involved.
As a Ferrari F8 Spider owner and a 2023 Ducati Panigale V4 R, i think it's a cinch that the Ducati red will look the best...nobody does Red better than the Italians.
WOW! I love the way Ducati moves those valves! Thanks for the demonstration! I cant wait to see all these new bikes racing together in the bewr future! Cheers!
I was amazed at how simple it is!!
Funny, when I was your age, I could not wait to ride my affordable bike. All you can do is watch today? You should not be cheering, you should be angry.
Man its inspiring to see the confidence you have working on bikes. I only started this year and still too nervous to do a simple valve check. Learning everyday with the help of this channel so thank you!
Learning is like that all the time if you keep doing things to learn from. I have been at this kind of stuff for almost 50 years and have seen a lot, but I still get nervous every time I tear into something new. Yes, you can make mistakes, but embrace it anyway, because it is exciting, and you will look forward to the learning process.
Then maybe you can invent something better than this. Imagine how exciting that is, from your experienced mind. It is how everything was made.
Have fun. It's worth it. :)
I've been around a long time, this is the best looking MXER I have ever seen.
As an old school arena cross rider from way back when I can honestly say I'd ride it. I'm kinda partial to the old 500cc 2 strokes though power is power.
I"ve owned Ducati's for 30+ years so happy they are joining the mix. BTW KTM has had the rear brake lever tucked behind the frame for more than 25 years.
Learn something every day!! Never really thought about how Desmond worked before, cheers.👍🏼
But, to be honest. I don’t think more power is what a 450 mx bike needs. I have seen interviews with the best in the world who say they cling on for dear life and they are along got the ride and not always in control!!!😂😂
Sweet a dirt bike that continuously breaks down 👌 just like the aprillia
Owned a 1967 Ducati Scrambler, then a 350 scrambler and in 1973 a 450 desmo scrambler. Nice bikes. Overall the 250 was the nicest of the bikes. Ducati should have done this 30 years ago. I doubt they will overwhelm the existing manufacturers
Fantastic!
A Dry Sump, Oil-in-Frame could save up to 4" of engine height like the good old days!
Suspension will be Ohlins and exhaust Akrapovic on the $34000 model. 🤣🤣🤣
I think that Ducati is going to shake the industry up and it is nice to see yet another European brand entering the arena. My hope is that when production does begin for the general consumer that the pricing does not end up making it a niche bike. Ducati does tend to bring a more lofty asking price compared to Japanese machines and even those are becoming harder to justify the asking prices when you consider you can purchase a base model Maverick pickup for just a few thousand more dollars. I mean ti put this in perspective a 2024 450 SXF by KTM is running almost $13.5 after destination and setup and that isn't even a Factory Works model. The Japanese 4 come in for a 2024 450 model at 13k for the Kawasaki and the other 3 between 9 and 10 grand depending on incentives and surcharges.
If Ducati and Triumph exceed the KTM, Husky, and Kawi price tag by more than say 500 bucks I do not think they will gain much of the market interest outside of pro riders. Should be interesting to see what happens come race season too because if the track performances of the European newcomers does not live up to the past couple years of anticipation and hype, I do not see them doing well in general consumer sales. Just my opinion anyway.
Pricing won't make it a niche bike, it's limited production will. Ducati doesn't make many bikes per year - even though they are owned by VW they are essentially a small company. Ducati started building bikes around the same year as Honda. The year Ducati built bike number 1 million, Honda built bike number 300 million. The Ducati will cost around 15% more than a Honda and they'll sell every one of them they make. Which won't be many.
@@DezmoDog the reason I put it in a niche bike category is because of what it costs to make a modern interpretation of a KX or CR 500 using the latest chassis and updated engine tech. It was close to 15k to build a Service Honda CR 500 AF spec’d out almost 10 years ago and they are a very niche bike and like you mentioned low production numbers for the Ducati would be the main factor but from my standpoint the pricing also factors in because it limits who can feasibly access the units. 16 to 17k for an MX bike is a lot of money if you are an independent amateur rider or simply a weekend warrior hobbyist. Just saying.
Only thing I don't like by the physical look is the front fender as you also mentioned. Great looking bike!
So it looks like that will give you more flex and more feel and more comfort as the frame will not have those really rigid adhesion points due to the welding. I think it’s a great idea that’s definitely like injection molding that they’re doing there. We’ll see what happens.
Watch Ducati force a rule change in professional racing if this engine lives up to its potential. Desmo tech is proven, and I can’t imagine how high a 250 could rev. God bless Italy, and welcome to the world of off-road
I own a ducati . Valves have to be adjusted before 4000 miles . Expect maintenance costs .
My 2008 gt 1000 Ducati covered 43 thousand miles with no adjustment needed, changed the 15/50 motul oil every 5k.
It'll be fine. Normal race dirt bikes have like 100 ish hour valve checks
@@ccubsfan94 it’s a desmodronic valve system . No springs . Needs periodic adjustment . Not your every day dirt bike .
On a dirt bike maintenance costs will be way less than on a Road Race version. You won’t need a few hours in labor just to get to the heads.
Those valves are different can't believe the big 4 haven't picked up on that. Wonder if you would ever have to adjust them? Or how would you
Ofcourse they need to be adjusted
@@totiwars8333 how would you adjust these kind then?
@@townsendYXZwith shims
Ducati didn't invented desmo but the developed it and patented the development, so the other manufacturer can't use them.
For the adjustment, this is the fun one.. in normal valve spring dohc engine usually you adjust the clearance arround 60.000 - 100.000 KM. For road use Desmo max is 30.000 KM, racing engine max is 12.000 KM so this is the downside of the desmo, needs maintenance more often.
The valve have 2 shim, opening shim, and closing shim who also act as valve collet retainer.
NOT patented.@@rahadiwibowo
Forget the Ducati, I want that TMR YZ125 in the background!
In the USA you are allowed to run a prototype bike for first year for development. Yamaha did it on YZM400.
Good to know. I didn't realize that....glad it's that way....Will be interesting.
Good to know. I didn't realize that....glad it's that way....Will be interesting.
Need 400 units minimum for AMA That’s why the KTM factory edition produces only 400 per year.
Special permission for what a dictatorship wants us to make and ride. That rule killed free enterprise advancements, and the bikes would be a lot more affordable with out it. (and the 1986 production rule, that also tripled the cost of a bike in 5 years with almost no new advancements like seen for a decade before that rule.)
The YZM was a Yamaha works bike in Europe (aluminum frame) from 1988, 2 years after it was said Yamaha could not afford to make works bikes, and spearheaded the 1986 production for the USA only. They still make works stuff for Europe today. The 1986 production rule, as explained, is a lie. Behind it was the FIM wanting to stop bike development in the USA with the factories, because we won the MXofN 5 times in a row. Both the 1986 rule and the 4-stoke forced on the industry, are the biggest factors of the sports decline by far. We need to demand our free enterprise back, because government is running our great sport into the dirt.
In motocross the design of the bike has reached a sweet spot years ago. Power is not the issue, nor torque. Its is traction and suspension, and even there, it is the ability of the team and rider to fine adjust for the circumstances what makes the winner. And the biggest part of succes is the talent of the rider. The bike is not that important anymore. That makes the sport so nice and competitive, unlike formula 1 where you never can win without a big budget.
By the way, the desmo system that Ducati uses is to avoid "valve floating" at high rpm. Motoscross bikes not running at very high rpm's. It has also disadvantages, one is a heavier construction, more mass to accelerate. If all of these design choices you talk about would be so much better, the other brands would allready have applied them, they are not stupid.
And there are no "best" brands, only better products, that come with a higher price.
Just to let you know that the Ducati desmo valve train has been designed That way so the Engine can Rev more than engines with Springs engines with Springs can suffer valve bounce at high revs. Therefore, the Ducati is designed to rev more And deliver more power good video. Thanks
Desmodromic was not primarly invented to reduce mechanical drag.
It was developed to close the valves of a high reving fourstroke faster, than springs can.
When the crank an piston can stand high revs, its the movement of the valves, that limits more.
To enable the closing of valves at high rpm, without crazyly strong valvesprings etc. and with steel valves (not titanium with all its downsides about valveseat and cost etc.) It is desmodromic, what is needed to not suffer fluttering valves...
Ive heard of that valve system ages ago but never knew the principles involved... it should not only add HP across the board becuz of greatly reduced friction but should also all but eliminate any issues regarding valve float at high rpms...in fact this will likely be one of the highest revving 450 dirt bike motors out there becuz of the desmo system..wait for the 1st rides and the dyno #'s
rode a 900 SS desmo v-2...wow!...Phil Shiling, an ex editor of cycle world magazine had a race team on 900 ducati desmo's...they did a bunch of improvements and seems i remember those Vtwins spinning at 14,000 rpm!
Actually, Desmodronic was refined in the late 1930’s in the airplane industry, Originally designed in the 1890’s but not really used due to lack of ability to properly heat treat parts yet. First started being used in WW2 by the Swiss and Germans.
Too bad Aprilia left the train. With the MXV they had figured out most of the problems.
Also if you do the known updates/ upgrades to your XV it will last without a problem as long as an EXC.
Such a good looking bike . I cant wait to see it at the races and first tests
Hard not to be excited. Good video presentation too. 😊
Idk, Desmo is neat, but i doubt it will be crazy different. Its a holdover from when material science wasnt up to snuff for springs.
Now we have bikes going to 16-18k rpm with a warranty on valve springs.
It will be exciting to see the results on the track. It looks like it could be very competitive.
Well this is exciting. I look forward to getting to ride one. Appearance makes it seem well thought out and put together. Exciting times.
Typically there is still a lash spring in the system of desmo controlled valves.
The rear brake pedal tucked inside the frame has been on KTMs since 1990 ish and still there on KTMs now including all KTMs clone army. Maybe other brands earlier.
Front fender agreed is a huge mud trap. KTM had some big troughs there in the past and in mud race you would get several pounds trapped there.
Will rev to the moon. Less friction and no valve float 😊
Ducati coming to motocross is even better than Triumph
All of their bikes are normal “full-on” beasts. Absolutely no “valve-float” with the Desmo valve train. Bet the motor makes 15 -20% more power than other brands.
And never forget the hard fought lessons Ducati went through developing a frame riders could win with in Moto GP.
So. My issues with Ducati, is one, here in Melbourne, there’s only three dealers, so it’s a pain in the arse if you need anything “factory” done. Two, you only get 2 year’s warranty and roadside assist- you need to buy an extended warranty, of only 12 or 24 months, so for a prestige manufacturer that’s really unacceptable. BMW gives you 5 years and 3 years roadside IN THE PRICE! Three, some stupid design decisions - why on earth do they shove the air filter under the tank on the Desert X? It’s an hour and a half to get the tank off. Imagine you’re in the desert, on an extended trip, and you need to check it…! And it requires 185nm of force on the rear axle nut! So when you do chain tension, or need to put an emergency tube in, you need to carry a long handled spanner to get it off, or one that breaks down into pieces. Really, really stupid.
I disagree about the front fender looks cool and it’s a reinforcement for strength. I think of some of the early ktm fenders would flap around more then normal. Ducati will stay nice and firm, also good aesthetic. I hope they keep it just like that. Would love to ride one I rode mostly Hondas and Yamahas that me started in street ducatis would love to ride mx on one.
With no valve float from having no springs that thing should have a super high redline?
The 1955 W196 Mercedes F1 and 300SLR both had desmodromic valves.
the desmo sound is crisp. a lil humm sound out the back. im anxious to see it in a pack
The valve train in a modern 4 stroke is not what limits the revs. Valve spring motors are capable of revving just as high as Desmo.
First of all I like the style even that front fender they are using. That makes them unique & very Ducati like bike. Everything you have said are good & made for performance. Although without any MX race under their belt. I'm sure of the components might a bit change if they can find some more performance in some areas.
Anyway we we'll see. They have got two great riders who develops this MX bike.
I think all the plastic designers come from the "Batman school of abstract art" college. Abstract art has no place on my functional dirt bike. You can keep the bat wings and arrow tips,---what ever they are for. I replaced my front fender with an older model, and went "Ronnie Mac" on the rest of the cartoon plastic. Looks great.
What are those wings for anyway? The artist does not even know.
I think it looks awesome and I'm sure it's gonna perform as well
Yeah , and comes at a good price to I bet ya ,because it’s a Ducati but I do like the specs and the looks but no sale from me !
Lets hope the 450 supermoto follows.
Just got a promotion at work. The Italians have some serious timing
Well it sounds competitive. Is it really one of the lighter bikes? Does it really have the most power and by how much? Most all the top bikes in this class have all the top shelf stuff to go with. Lets wait and see about results and reliability, handling, etc..
So here in 2024 when valve float is somewhat a thing of the past so why desmo? The system requires minimal hp to open the valves and mainly you can run a very radical cam profile without skip or float.
BTW Taglioni went with the desmo system that Mercedes had perfected at the time (1950s).
I just bought the hypermotard 698 and I love it!! Very fast too.
Ducati did NOT invent Desmo valves, Daimler-Benz invented Desmo valves in 1889......most of the current Ducati tech comes from the parent company Volkswagon.
True, but Ducati didn't get Desmo from VW
Ducati does NOT get their desmo valves designed by VW
The only times when Ducati sell bike with parrent company tech is the ducati with variable timing, and e bikes.
Most of their tech on road bikes are derived from their racing bike development on Motogp and WSBK
What you talking about lol 😂…. …. Ducati Desmo exist since 1956 was 125 cc ….. The Volkswagen group took over Ducati just 4-6 years ago
In my experience Shaow is just a bit better than KYB. KYB does a better job with R&D testing settings but component wise I prefer Showa.
Would like to know valve adjustment intervals and if they will come out with a desmo 250…
It's factually not true that the Desmodromic system has no springs. It's just that the springs are there to keep the rocker against the cam lobe, instead of having to close the valve. There is definitely resistance when you try to turn the cam shafts on these heads.
Mousse Balls!
Looks awesome, I can't wait to see about getting on the list to order one.
you forgott the 3th red bike, Fantic 😂
Its great to have more OEMs on the circuit.
But....do they all have to be backed by Monster???
First Kawi, now Yammie.
Now it appears that Ducati will be Monster backed.
How long before Monster absorbes Suzuki?
Monster already backs Honda, in rally raid, and Baja.
So... the clock is ticking on "Monster Honda" backing.
I get that Red Bull KTM, and GasGas is a thing.
Red Bull used to be a big thing in outdoors, but no more.
Rockstar Husky is a minor player now .
Our group started a drinking game, a few years ago..."take a shot every time Lee Doofus, or RC say Monster Energy".
....none of us were conscious at the first 250 heat gate drop!!!
You don't know!!! You are Dreaming!
Technically, they usually have a really light spring for a little extra tension.
Look at the Koenigsegg car engine. It has pneumatic valves and computer timing. Zero friction engine rotation.
This would be necessary if petrol engines are to keep up with electric.
Another very well edited video! Thanks !
Love your clips mate! just wondering with the frame/head stem being one piece, obviously a forged piece, gee if they want to change any characteristics(?) of flex etc that would mean a whole new die? not as easy or cheap to change any minor detail issues? maybe thats why they are not going into production for a while, they would want to get this rigity/flexability correct? just a thought, keep up your great work! cheers from Australia
Probably be 20 grand!
Prices are out of control.
Can't wait to get mine when is available in Mexico !
Another great video, Rado! Thanks for the info
im so excited that Ducati has a dirt bike my buddys and i cant wait thats all we are talking about can you tell we are Italian 🤣🤣😂
Impressive power for a 650 single in 2024, just a smidge over the 75hp from Ducati in 1993 from their 550 supermono.
Looks exciting, great quality,
sounding great. What is the hp
Yeah I want one for sure.
Great video.Exsplained very well.
Another great competitor in the market
Couldn't agree more!
eres mi ídolo desde España sacar cr 250 del 2004
Once it wins the title, I’ll be convinced I remember when Cannondale was talented as the next big thing, and it was an industry disaster
Add 20lbs of mud to the bike with the giant shovel for a fender, other than that bike looks sick🏁🤙
Hope they one day drop a 350
I think you misspoke. Maybe most powerful single cylinder 4 stroke. That does not include 2 strokes. 2 strokes cc for cc will always be more powerful still.
I believe Cagiva also runs the rear brake lever behind the frame. But I would rather you have been a salesman for Cannodale 24 years ago, because they did not take anybodies money to make a launch bike into electric. I think we get dumber every generation since the 60's, and I don't think it is an accident.
can't wait for enduro version
whats up with the Beta logo on the swingarm?
Had the same question. Beta tools. No relation to Beta motorcycles.
They mastered it.....
The bikes have to win! This is what sells so they will have to spend millions to get the best riders on these bikes no matter how good they are. I guess they have been working on this a while so they built a 4 stroke and the reason this is a problem is there is a huge rise in the sale of new and used 2 strokes. They should have and still should build a 2 stroke and make sure that bike wins in the 450 class. If they built a 300 or 350 it would easily win if it was a 2 stroke a racing against the 4 strokes.
The head is very tall, and I measure from the photo that it may be the tallest bike in seat height. That is not a plus in MX, but MXA has accepted tall bikes.
So will we,---again. I have never seen so many amateurs (go-pros still allowed for amateurs), so slow in corners.
I will have one of these.
Well, I’m sure the quality is top-notch they still yet to win a race and that’s what it’s all about
DesmoDROMIC, not DesmoTRONIC 😂😂😂
In any case I think you missed an important point: the single frame is another trademark from Ducati. All their sport bikes have the single frame, from MotoGp to Panigale V4.
Put an electric waterpump in there and you have even less drag in the engine. 😅
I want one. Looks sick
Quite surprised they did not go with Ohlins for their suspension.
This is definitely a totally new bike and it being a Ducati you can be certain they paid attention to detail. I think I’ll wait until they get a little cheaper though. Lol
Italy is in fire
Respectfully i would rather see tm step up and build bikes for ama. Its like ducati is cutting in line
And Triumph’s cookie cutter 250 is one of many reasons why it will fail..
will they make a 250 too? or just 450
"DESMO POWER"!!!! 👍
BETA IT'S ITALIAN..... NOT FROM AUSTRIA
If it's anything like other DUCATI full rebuild after a day out , if it doesn't break down before on the day.