🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy82 🏎Learn and practice the same skills that pro divers use every lap: Enrol today for 50% off Race Driving Fundamentals: hpcdmy.co/offery82 TIME STAMPS 0:00 - Lesson Goal 0:20 - What Is Trail Braking? 1:00 - Problem: Road G-G Diagram Traction Circle 2:09 - The Solution 2:51 - Brake Pressure Vs Steering Angle 3:18 - Ideal Track G-G Diagram: Traction Circle 3:29 - Ideal Brake Release Practice 4:11 - Other Advantages of Trail Braking 4:42 - Oversteer 4:58 - High Speed Vs Low Speed Corners 5:24 - Moving Target: Requires Testing 5:58 - Lesson Summary 6:42 - Enjoyed This? We Have A Full Course!
I've heard a few racers say they get to know the track with there cars, then another series race happens on the same track, with completly different tyre compounds, then when they go out they have to relearn the surface all over again from the other rubber left on track, i laughed but as the years go by and i try new things i relise there is alot of truth to it, keep up the awesome work peps
Most HPDE drivers neglect to do this and think their cars understeer. Essentially most beginners and intermediate drivers “coast” too much into the corner.
I think this is my problem. It's all too easy to induce understeer when entering a corner too fast, or turning in too harshly, or turning without loading up the front. Good reminder to stop blaming the car and try to understand how I contribute to less than optimal results
Trail braking, applying the brakes softlywhile going into the turn before hitting the ideal apex is what i often do, but many newbies on the track fail to do this
But you are still braking before the apex. if you need to put power in early, you should be left foot braking so you can brake later while still having the power on. Trail braking is used in both situations for better lap times
It would have been interrested to compare throttle pedal usage to brakes pedal usage during trail braking to show in which part and proportion they are used at same time (some amount of left foot braking involved).
In general you should not use throttle during trail braking. The idea is to use the brakes to rotate the car and only slow down as needed to get thorugh the corner, then at the apex, you get off the brakes and start applying throttle to exit the corner.
@@vozhdmeister5256 Except instead of braking then turning you do both at the same time, but as you start turning you release the brakes accordingly to keep the car balances and under the grip threshold.
If you normally trail brake, yes, it would be how you normally brake I guess. Some people do it without thinking even when they shouldn't, others don't, sometimes even when they should 😅 - Taz.
I'm living in mountains, I am using trail braking, left foot braking and even powerslide cornering according to road, weather, visibility and risk (damaging the car is something that can be dealt with, jumping in the trees is something else)
No sir! ABS is irrelevant bearing in mind not all ABS systems are created equal. Once you get out there and start practicing this and other fundamental techniques you will quickly figure out where your own ABS system (if you have one) fits in with your track driving noting the track conditions don't remain static either outside of sim racing - Taz.
@@hpa101 amazing advice I didn't know that. Thanks I'm going to work on that this season which is pretty much just going to be all about data and testing for next year 🤙
Yes sir! Rally has so many variable conditions that there isn't much that doesn't apply to it realistically, but trail braking is definitely employed in rally on both 'solid' and 'loose' surfaces - Taz.
Yeap like mk4 tdi golf's, press the brake and throttle at the same time while driving and the ecu detects the brake signal and ignores the throttle request signal until you lift off the brake
@@upsidedown4155yep my Mk5 does that, and even my 370Z did. Thankfully I now drive a Miata which allows left-foot braking (not that I've even started attempting it)
Typically brake boosting is a term used with turbocharged cars where you mix brake and throttle input mid-corner to build boost pressure so that the turbo has less of a gap to cover to provide peak boost
Another issue with youtube is people posting videos on subjects they have very little knowledge of, dont listen to this guy, this is bad advice, not all cars are the same, doing this as he has could cause some cars to understeer, you should have done all your heavy breaking before turning in.
People like you are the reason why we need warning labels on simple things like pieces of plastic these days. All those points are addressed in this lesson. Please listen to it in full before drawing your own conclusion. This is knowledge taken directly from professional race drivers and is 100% relevant to drivers of all levels and abilities, not just those in high tier equipment. If you don't trust us, look it up elsewhere, we haven't made this up. Note, not every corner is the same, not every car is the same and not every day on track is the same and no one here stated that. Use your brain and gained skills to find the best for you and your equipment any time you are on track like everyone else. For example, this technique can actually help reduce understeer if you are traction-limited in the front, and the weight shift will help increase traction there. This was discussed here and is discussed elsewhere, it's not rocket science but the simple things all add up to make you faster and faster on track 😀 - Taz.
@@hpa101 this was actually a misplaced comment, It was a comment meant for a video I watched where there channel creator posts driving advice videos and gives very bad advice, I was actually linking this video in a reply to him as I called him out on his bad advice, I don't even know how I managed to comment on this video, apologies.
Yes bikes are not considered here, however, trail braking is 100% a valid technique on bikes too with both front and rear brakes depending on the bike and terrain/application. When I was learning to ride I remember being told by forum experts that you couldn't and shouldn't ever brake while cornering, and I'm very glad I never listened to that garbage from people I can only assume treated the brakes on their bikes like on/off switches 😂 - Taz.
🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy82
🏎Learn and practice the same skills that pro divers use every lap: Enrol today for 50% off Race Driving Fundamentals: hpcdmy.co/offery82
TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Lesson Goal
0:20 - What Is Trail Braking?
1:00 - Problem: Road G-G Diagram Traction Circle
2:09 - The Solution
2:51 - Brake Pressure Vs Steering Angle
3:18 - Ideal Track G-G Diagram: Traction Circle
3:29 - Ideal Brake Release Practice
4:11 - Other Advantages of Trail Braking
4:42 - Oversteer
4:58 - High Speed Vs Low Speed Corners
5:24 - Moving Target: Requires Testing
5:58 - Lesson Summary
6:42 - Enjoyed This? We Have A Full Course!
This explains perfectly something I've felt intuitively and gives me a much better understanding in how I can exploit this for better gains.
2:44
I've heard a few racers say they get to know the track with there cars, then another series race happens on the same track, with completly different tyre compounds, then when they go out they have to relearn the surface all over again from the other rubber left on track, i laughed but as the years go by and i try new things i relise there is alot of truth to it, keep up the awesome work peps
Most HPDE drivers neglect to do this and think their cars understeer. Essentially most beginners and intermediate drivers “coast” too much into the corner.
I think this is my problem. It's all too easy to induce understeer when entering a corner too fast, or turning in too harshly, or turning without loading up the front.
Good reminder to stop blaming the car and try to understand how I contribute to less than optimal results
Yup this is why you’ll see people talk shit on cars like the vw golf when in reality they have a lively rear end if driven right
Trail braking, applying the brakes softlywhile going into the turn before hitting the ideal apex is what i often do, but many newbies on the track fail to do this
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Another great HPA video
Cheers Bernard, we have another few on driver training in the bank for the coming weeks too 😎 - Taz.
Some corners maybe. 4WD can be different (if the corner radius allows) with my EVO some power is on before the apex to lock the diffs for exit.
But you are still braking before the apex. if you need to put power in early, you should be left foot braking so you can brake later while still having the power on. Trail braking is used in both situations for better lap times
@@festa289 As he says not every corner, which is what I said.
I'm finding sim racing is such a great place to practice this!
Excellent taz
It would have been interrested to compare throttle pedal usage to brakes pedal usage during trail braking to show in which part and proportion they are used at same time (some amount of left foot braking involved).
In general you should not use throttle during trail braking. The idea is to use the brakes to rotate the car and only slow down as needed to get thorugh the corner, then at the apex, you get off the brakes and start applying throttle to exit the corner.
@@wisllayvitrio71 Ok, so it's mere normal breaking
@@vozhdmeister5256 Except instead of braking then turning you do both at the same time, but as you start turning you release the brakes accordingly to keep the car balances and under the grip threshold.
If you normally trail brake, yes, it would be how you normally brake I guess.
Some people do it without thinking even when they shouldn't, others don't, sometimes even when they should 😅 - Taz.
I'm living in mountains, I am using trail braking, left foot braking and even powerslide cornering according to road, weather, visibility and risk (damaging the car is something that can be dealt with, jumping in the trees is something else)
Very good.. thank you
Does trailer braking only work with ABS ?
No sir! ABS is irrelevant bearing in mind not all ABS systems are created equal.
Once you get out there and start practicing this and other fundamental techniques you will quickly figure out where your own ABS system (if you have one) fits in with your track driving noting the track conditions don't remain static either outside of sim racing - Taz.
@@hpa101 amazing advice I didn't know that. Thanks I'm going to work on that this season which is pretty much just going to be all about data and testing for next year 🤙
does this work in rallying too?
Yes sir! Rally has so many variable conditions that there isn't much that doesn't apply to it realistically, but trail braking is definitely employed in rally on both 'solid' and 'loose' surfaces - Taz.
Need a sensor on the brake pedal now to data log it
A lot of later model cars have them from factory, just a matter of 'tapping' on into the data if that's the case 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Unfortunately no that flash in an r32 skyline :)
Yeap like mk4 tdi golf's, press the brake and throttle at the same time while driving and the ecu detects the brake signal and ignores the throttle request signal until you lift off the brake
@@upsidedown4155yep my Mk5 does that, and even my 370Z did.
Thankfully I now drive a Miata which allows left-foot braking (not that I've even started attempting it)
Isn't this also known as brakeboosting or is that somthing different?
Typically brake boosting is a term used with turbocharged cars where you mix brake and throttle input mid-corner to build boost pressure so that the turbo has less of a gap to cover to provide peak boost
@@blindaceg sounds terrifying
👏👏👏
Would have been better if you had shown us how to do it on track rather than these paper explanations which are bot helpful
Another issue with youtube is people posting videos on subjects they have very little knowledge of, dont listen to this guy, this is bad advice, not all cars are the same, doing this as he has could cause some cars to understeer, you should have done all your heavy breaking before turning in.
People like you are the reason why we need warning labels on simple things like pieces of plastic these days. All those points are addressed in this lesson. Please listen to it in full before drawing your own conclusion.
This is knowledge taken directly from professional race drivers and is 100% relevant to drivers of all levels and abilities, not just those in high tier equipment. If you don't trust us, look it up elsewhere, we haven't made this up.
Note, not every corner is the same, not every car is the same and not every day on track is the same and no one here stated that. Use your brain and gained skills to find the best for you and your equipment any time you are on track like everyone else. For example, this technique can actually help reduce understeer if you are traction-limited in the front, and the weight shift will help increase traction there. This was discussed here and is discussed elsewhere, it's not rocket science but the simple things all add up to make you faster and faster on track 😀 - Taz.
@@hpa101 this was actually a misplaced comment, It was a comment meant for a video I watched where there channel creator posts driving advice videos and gives very bad advice, I was actually linking this video in a reply to him as I called him out on his bad advice, I don't even know how I managed to comment on this video, apologies.
@Stu81 I only just saw your reply, apology accepted. The internet is a wild place - Taz.
Bikers this is not the same for a motorcycle it has everything to do with the front brake in the technic don’t kill yourselves lol 😂
Yes bikes are not considered here, however, trail braking is 100% a valid technique on bikes too with both front and rear brakes depending on the bike and terrain/application.
When I was learning to ride I remember being told by forum experts that you couldn't and shouldn't ever brake while cornering, and I'm very glad I never listened to that garbage from people I can only assume treated the brakes on their bikes like on/off switches 😂 - Taz.
@@hpa101
I didn’t know you were a biker 😊
Maybe do a video on your sweet rides 🤷🏻♂️
This trail braking technique applies very much the same for bikes, whether using only the front brake or both 👍
My ride is very average and I'm no Rossi or Price, you'd be bored pretty quick 😉 - Taz.
@@FCustureri
It’s not the same trail braking technique