Debating A Stubborn Conservative Into A Pro-Trans Stance! HARDEST DIFFICULTY
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มี.ค. 2021
- DEBATE: Destiny manages to debate stubborn Rob Noerr into adopting a pro-trans stance in their 1 on 1 debate following the drunk debates panel...
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Destiny finally gets to talk to Rob Noerr 1 on 1 after the drunken debates panel ► th-cam.com/video/x6-TTlx8VBk/w-d-xo.html
Do you think he made progress?
fortnite battle royale
No...err
Btw If Destiny ever read this, let's let him know that Rob is our favorite Conservative. He should talk with him more.
Btw, the guy has crazy content to fight against. Always enjoy his vision on reality, it could make a decent Netflix Series tho.
@@morgezorge6387 It's a hypothetical, mate. It's not literally one to one.
I wonder if it bothers him that vaush has more subs now....
Destiny I am really disappointed you havent pointed out the really troubling scenes in Tomato town atm. Your silence is revealing.
Silence is an answer
@@AkiraIsMissing inaction is action.
the most forced meme in dgg history
When you keep silent during times of oppression, you are siding with the oppressors.
Ten people used to live there
I use to be pro trans. But that all changed when rob told me about common sense.
Yah gotta give em the smell test.
@@cookiebandit18 This is why I sniff everybody I meet. Great icebreaker too
@@Adam-tu1lk Gotta give em the olllllll nose hair tickle time
Robs common sense > your pitifully small common sense
Pro trans apparently means agreeing with anything they say.
Person A: "I can't belive this would change! This is purely political!"
Person B: "Did you read any of the research or reasoning for the change?"
Person A: "No, it's just common sense!"
Why I hate rob 101
I was around 14 when i realised common sense isn’t real and a bullshit concept. The fact adults appeal to it baffles me.
"trans women aren't women, it's just common sense"
well, would they say that a step parent isn't a parent? they may not be biologically the parent but they live as a parent
@@Tocinos In my experience they say yes they are not a real parent.
@@Tocinos what does it mean to view trans women as women?
I think the more you put Rob in the first person POV, he will understand everything. Destiny YOU CAN SAVE HIM!
That's the weirdest thing about Rob, he seems like a nice guy, that genuinely doesn't want to harm anyone. He just seems to be too naive to think critically and just gives the next best source as fact without actually reading it.
This is a semantical argument. Destiny doesn't want to call it an illness because that sounds negative. Psychology tends to rate illness of the mind by how much it impacts a person because psychology is more art then science and there is no "norm". Most people are neurotic. Most people don't have crippling neurosis. By destiny's measure he wouldn't call downs syndrome an illness. He would say the myriad of other medical conditions that result from downsyndrome the illness because he doesn't want to make people with downsyndrome to feel bad. Which is admirable...and these scientific organizations are doing the same. Its not a claim that comes from the scientific method, its literally just language choices for political/kindness purposes.
@@neverusingthisagain2 I think it's more about utility than "being nice". What use is it to call ALL trans people "ill" if being trans doesn't necessarily negatively affect their life - if there's no necessary prescription? Whereas down syndrome undoubtedly has a severely negative impact on someones ability to live life normal - there are necessary prescriptions (a caretaker and the like)
We're all rooting for you Rob, you can do it!
That's all conservatives, shkt has to happen to them for them to give a fuck
I'm a second year psych student and there's absolutely no way this guy is in his 4th year. Our criteria for scientific fact is absolutely NOT whether it agrees with "common sense". I'm really embarrassed to watch this.
100% agree he's either talking out of his ass or he's going to some backwards ass school with an out of date prof. None of what he was saying made any sense (pre getting drunk )
@John Dennis I dont know if he said he was a psychologist or his girlfriend/wife/s.o. I could be wrong, I heard that part in the livestream so I didn't rewatch it. That being said, for sure he did say he is a 4th year undergrad writing a "dissertation" ( I get the feeling he isn't using that word correctly) but never specified what it might be tied to. You wouldn't expect an Eyewitness Psychology student to understand mental health topics.
@@Godzillaaaaa11 yeah it’s so weird 😂 pretty sure you don’t write your dissertation till you reach your grad level classes otherwise you might write a paper that’s mainly just you looking up things and putting it in your paper other than that I don’t understand why a 4th year student is looking so far into psychology
@@nikolastiscareno4963 You know what it might be? In my Kinesiology program we had the option of doing a research methods course in 4th year for two semesters or a Research Practicum. It boils down to conducting research based on a pre determined list of topics. It's possible he is doing something like that. In which case, no one in their right minds calls that a dissertation unless you really want to feel big.
@@Godzillaaaaa11 yeah exactly it’s not like that huge but I would imagine it’s a big deal if he was going to pursue psychology but he said he’s going into law and I’m like okay 😂
This "Asking the opponent for the answer" tactic is super cool.
Destiny better watch out, Socrates got poisoned for pulling this shit.
It's spooky how well it works.
@@downsjmmyjones101 well its not as easy as it looks, the trick is asking the correct questions and formulating it aswell, also it requires you to know the subject extremly well as failing to awser a question might result in losing the whole train of tought
It's thousands of years old, too. Thanks, Socrates!
The Socratic Method: "a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions."
"a method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those that lead to contradictions."
"The Socratic method searches for general, commonly held truths that shape beliefs and scrutinizes them to determine their consistency with other beliefs. The basic form is a series of questions formulated as tests of logic and fact intended to help a person or group discover their beliefs about some topic; exploring definitions, and seeking to characterize general characteristics shared by various particular instances."
It's called baiting and he did it very well.
Female name? That's a destiny.
Who the profile pic character?
@@TimeTellsNoLies90 simp
@@AyleidCraft How? I'm just wondering who it is.
@@TimeTellsNoLies90 🤮
@@TimeTellsNoLies90 down bad
Scientists tell us we have 5 senses but they failed to include common sense, curious.
That's because the global elites who control all scientists in the world (except the ones who tell the truth) don't want you to use the awesome and unstoppable power of common sense to overthrow them.
@@werewolf4358 have you ever read a history book? that is literally how it has always been in all of human history. a bunch of elites who hold all the power who are desperate to not allow any level of truth and only allow their specific narrative to exist in order for them to keep holding onto power.
you were trying to be sarcastic but you are actually right.
@@mayainverse9429 "a bunch of elites" = the scientific body as a whole. lemme step down from my ivory tower to talk to you real quick
Well common sense dose tell you water always sites level !! Take that globe earth!!
But they use the ball earth lie for the most pressing issue of the day "cancel culture"!!
@@Demo5 jeez, my dude. gotta give the koolaid some time
I think a lot of the problem we are experiencing with the "mental illness" angle is how much negative baggage comes with the term. It's almost an insult to say someone has a mental illness, and it shouldn't be.
If you're walking down the street and there's a person laying there with an obvious compound fracture with a broken bone sticking out through the skin, we instantly recognize this "ill" person as someone who needs help. We might call an ambulance, we might try to comfort them, we might try to offer them basic aid, and so on.
Now, if we take out broken leg person, and instead, we have a disheveled, dirty person, mumbling incoherently and crying, the reaction is a lot less sympathetic, now suddenly, "this person is ill" takes on a tone similar to "this person is stupid" rather than "this person needs help"
"Illness" "disorder" ...these words are not an insult. Why does it become one when it applies to the mind?
@@EsotericOccultist general intelligence has not been shown to exist. being smarter is largely a cultural creation and a bit dumby. of course, im providing no evidence for this claim so have fun researching this.
its funny becuase in my first year psychology topic we were specifically told not to use the term mental illness because of the negative connotations it has. you never want to go into a conversation with someone and tell them they have a mental illness, even when talking about forms of depression and anxiety which are. all it does is alienate them and make them feel shit and does not at all help them with how they are feeling. also often people who are transgender have depression and other things that influence how they feel. so its a double negative for them.
@@tanszism i appreciate that you at least acknowledge upfront that what you're claiming has no basis in our current understanding of reality.
It begs the question on why you would even bother posting something that you know is likely baseless and incoherent, but again, I do appreciate the honesty.
Because mental illness is more inherent to a person than a broken leg is
@@SirLied i can tell u havent given much thought to what this person said. if u do, u will come to the conclusion of "what is intelligence truly quantified with?" which is almost impossible to answer. is it knowledge? speed of thinking? the ability to keep high levels of focus for long periods of time. the ability to quickly memorize stuff? heres the thing. literally all of those can be practiced and perfected. so how do we TRULY quantify intelligence then? is it someone whose EXTREMELY good at all of those things even from an incredibly young age? then is there truly a difference between 99.9999999999999% of all humans and the only two levels are, ur either a normal human lazy to get better or not lazy to get better, or ur one of those super super rare humans that are truly "intelligent" (excluding people who are mentally incapable of these ofc)
Omni Dysphoria: when a new Destiny video is in your feed but it hasn't been watched liked commented and subscribed
holy shit truuuuu
Zombies are in the chat
@@destiny true true true any truers?
@@T2G-DJT Yeah that's pretty true.
@@yore5 that’s true and... yeah that’s true
Rob? That's a trans-positive name.
”I don’t believe in common sense. I epistemically reject that assertion.”
That’s kinda hot ngl.
lol agreed. Common sense just means intuitive and lots of shit in science is counter intuitive. If the natural world worked intuitively would be need the scientific method at all?
Common sense is the natural enemy of the scientific method.
I believe you can believe in science and also believe in common sense. They both offer important insight in different facets of life. Just my opinion.
@@kindergardner7410 Science has shown many of the flaws of common sense and people fall into that kind of thinking way too easily. Common sense is ridiculous and super bias. Science has shown this over and over again. I guess it is easier to use common sense than actively try to be factual and accurate.
@@RanEncounter I guess science doesn’t account for personal experience and human nature. Science isn’t the only facet of life, and there are certain constants that percentages and experiments aren’t gonna necessarily account for.
Common sense tells me everything around me looks still. Therefore the earth is not currently spinning at 1,000 MPH and hurtling through space at 66,000MPH. Take that, science.
You sure showed them science people!
Common sense tells me it's impossible for those dots in the sky to be bigger than my city, since I've never seen anything bigger than my city capable of floating in the sky far enough away to be that small. Therefore the most logical position is that those lights are close to our flat earth stuck on a dome.
@SoggyShrimp have you ever been on a plane that fast? have you ever SEEN anything go that fast?
@SoggyShrimp common sense > 7 grade science
Overall he thinks science is too politicized, so he'll take any position that matches what he considers "common sense."
I love how his stance is:
"every single prestigious scientist that has come to this clear conclusion is brought there by political views. And the outdated consensus that matches my political agenda is considered "common sense" in my opinion because it is a factoid taken for granted by our ancestors in ignorance".
That's how I sum up his argument.
@@illestvillain1971 destiny clearly states at the start that all scientific conclusions are subject to change, you can only believe what those in power say. Not reductive to question the aforementioned scientific conclusion - “common sense” is obviously a bad way to go about this. Just find out what objective points could be made here that supports the politics vs facts stance.
I think it's just motivated reasoning.
Any central body (APA, WHO and others) feels political pressure. Why else do you think the WHO ignores Taiwan as an autonomous government. It's politics. They have pressure from China to not acknowledge such a reality. Sadly if they did recognize Taiwan they would have not dropped the ball with Covid from the middle of December.
@@africanlipplateandbonenose3223 do you have literally any evidence of this beyond trans people making you uncomfortable?
this guy sounds like the boss from the incredibles
HE DOES. 🤣🤣
I wish I had read this comment before I watched the debate so I could pretend it's the boss from the Incredibles making all these arguments as I listen
"PARRRR!"
The way he talks reminds me of the ranty way in which Rush Limbaugh used to talk
@@TheWarwolf102 I’m not happy Bob. NOT. HAPPY.
The way Rob deals with communication makes me think he's someone who will stop reading a sentence because the rest of it continues on the next line, and then question why the sentence doesn't make sense. Hearing him badger Destiny because he's unable to sit through a full definition makes me wonder how he's able to have a conversation, much less be educated on speech.
He uses his education in speech to misdirect all his conversations. He knows that if he can ignore certain parts of a definition, he'll win a debate with anyone who doesn't hold him down to the full definition that actually defeats his argument. It's very scummy.
@@ThePassiveCurse and the flip side is its easy to win any argument if you have the full power to define anything and everything.
@@mayainverse9429 yep. Pretty great when facts and logic are on your side.
This reminds me of that gun guy who was reading a paper in front of destiny and deliberately stopped reading because the rest disagreed with him lmao destiny called him out
"...Because it continues on the next line" that made me giggle, kudos
Destiny? That's uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
amazin
*A1 - It's just a burning memory*
that’s uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hey buddy, looks like you forgot to finish your sentence. I'll finish it for you: a girl's name.
Alright, stay safe buddy. 😁
BEYDA!
So he just feels like definition of illness is wrong, and spent an hour being angry about it, huh? Well, sure, if the term "illness" wasn't used to discriminate and treat trans people like shit, if it was 100% neutral, I think most people would agree to disagree and just moved on.
the issue is there are multiple different underlying diagnoses that have gender identity issues and many people get caught in the weeds and deny trans people existing all cus some people with autism/adhd show signs of gender identity issues but that doesn't mean they're trans
You nail it down exactly on what's the issue really, and why the ban isn't by itself a bad thing, sure there can be books that talk about the "illness" in a more neutral way, but there is also a lot of literature (I feel it's most of it) that uses the illness tag to discriminate and/or lessen/invalidate the trans experience, which is why the approach Destiny is taking (which is the same most mental care professionals take) makes more sense, where you don't recognize it as an illness if there is no mental distress.
In a similar way where someone might be slightly autistic, or have a certain degree of ADHD, but they function so normally that they never need treatment so it isn't worth calling it an illness if it's not a problem. Where sure that someone's brain might have an anomaly or divergence to what science and most of the population so far describes as the "normal-experience", but if you are functioning normally without the need for continuous treatment, then you are by all means having a "normal-experience". Not to say you can't live a "normal-experience" under treatment, but in that case and only then, it's worth recognizing it as an illness.
The whole debate between them is recognizing that as far as science has come so far it is an anomaly (Rob's Stance), but it isn't necessarily an illness (Destiny and Science's stance on the matter).
Oh so people lie about it being an illness for the sake of protecting them?
@@bobwilliams4895 that's what I'm taking away from this too. I get not using words like illness when treating a trans person because it's not helpful but when it comes to the institutions that actually define this stuff, they should be more politically neutral and honest about it.
That's because we as a society have put indignations on the terms "illness" and "disorder" when it comes to trans issues due to our own internalized ableism. It's seen in a negative light when it's really not. It IS a neutral term, it's just our societal conditioning that makes us see them as negative. We should try to change that instead of leaning into it.
God when rob said transgendered and transsexual it physically hurt me
transgenderism too, it shows how much he doesn't know shit lol
@The Curb from American History X being trans isn't an idea lol
@The Curb from American History X when people talk about transgenderism, they usually refer to transitioning or being trans, so no
and no one is ever putting 3 years old on hormone blockers lmfao, plus that would be fucking useless because puberty don't start at 3
there's is, however, cis children that gets on hormone blocker really young, before 8 years old, the reason being that they have an early puberty, that could hinder future definitive height and other factors, being detrimental for the development of the child (that's why saying we don't have enough data on puberty blockers is bullshit btw, we've been using them since forever)
and maybe using "birthing person" as a general term is more accurate than "mother" since there's men that can give birth ?
@The Curb from American History X okay so you're saying trans men aren't men got it, you're a transphobe
and no society doesn't ? and it's like 3 cases ? do you even know how transitioning work ?
@The Curb from American History X transphobia : noun, dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people. -Definitions from Oxford Languages
Transphobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. -wikipedia
learn what a word mean before talking shit lmao.
Men can give birth because gender isn't equal to sex (again before talking shit learn about it)
I adore how flustered and confused rob gets when he realizes he accidentally said “trans rights”.
Rob says "trans rights"
Rob thinks scientific data is tested and peer reviewed by simply using "the smell test of common sense". That is flat Earther logic there.
"Oh, so you believe the liberal establishment of the globe? Clearly, you don't have common sense!"
@@sadbread2446 Ah, you got me there, no way to argue with that.
liberals think scientific data is tested and peer reviewed by simply using "the smell test of feelings". That is attack helicopter logic there.
@@mayainverse9429 the "smell test of feelings", otherwise known as: "checking the citations that can be very easily found on studies."
@@mayainverse9429 I think using the attack helicopter joke is just necrophilia at this point.
I am trans and I grew up saying "I wish I was a girl." I WANTED to be a girl. I didn't have knowledge of brain states or what i am on some deeper level. I looked at girls and felt envy. I thought "I want to be that pretty". I thought, "I wish my hips were wider." "I wish I had boobs" it was a want.
@@kan8274 does that credit trans or discredit trans?
@@mlking213 I think they’re trying to say “it’s just a phase.” That’s what I got out of it anyway
@@mlking213 I'm not entirely sure. But I think they are saying what I am saying. That they had no knowledge of trans just "I wish I was x" but doing you best with the hand you were dealt. Thus moving moving on without dealing with your dysphoria.
For me I hit a wall at 20. Some ppl make it farther.
@@lukaswithakay maybe that's what they meant. Not sure
And I’m sorry that’s so, Gender Dysphoria is a horrible thing.
Just don’t act like I have to adhere to this ideology however, cause that’s not happening. Otherwise, we’re fine.
I don't think the avg person's "common sense" should ever override doctorate level research.
my uncle’s a psychologist and said it’s true that you won’t be diagnosed with an illness or condition etc. if you don’t experience distress. that’s why there are groups like the hearing voices society - ppl with schizophrenia often hear voices in their head, but some people hear voices and it doesn’t cause distress or negatively affect their lives, so they won’t be diagnosed with anything.
Yep that's correct. It's likely that there's far more people out there that hear voices in the general population than those treated in mental health services.
This is not entirely true, ask your uncle again about this. Both people have Schizophrenia and will be diagnosed with it (both will have indicators like "concrete thinking") but only one will have to be treated because it significantly affects their/others life and/or they suffer from that. Of cause the person with the less severe Schizophrenia can still volunteer for treatment while the other can not.
@@FUDBuddy I think what you're trying to say is that where someone has symptoms of psychosis AND a risk to self and others there is more likely to be a diagnosis which is true. Treatment can be challenging as some don't believe they're experiencing an illness. Psychiatrists will always try to offer some level of choice and only those with some level of legislation involved (section 3 here in UK) can be compulsary treated.
The original point is there there are lots of people who hear voices or experience unusual beliefs but manage to function relatively well in society. A huge amount of us experience hypnogogic hallucinations and this doesn't mean we will be diagnosed with schizophrenia.
@@Peepsuk1234 I was specifically talking about people that have one or more indicators of schizophrenia (hallucinations, "concrete thinking" etc.). Schizophrenia is very diverse in it's possible symptoms and severity. My point was that if you have the necessary indicators you are schizophrenic even if you or others are not bothered by it or notice it.
In other words: A functioning alcoholic is still an alcoholic.
I agree. Every country handles the forced treatment problem differently and it is another can of worms i don't want to open.
@@FUDBuddy idk i guess maybe i didn’t understand totally but my guess would be that ppl who don’t have any ill effects from their symptoms would be less likely to see a psychologist in the first place?
Destiny? That's a non-binary name.
God, Rob's appeals to "common sense" shows just how little he knows about anything he talks about. Only 12 mins in and I hope Destiny doesn't let Rob keep skating on nonsensical points.
I was shocked with how bad many of Destinys arguments were. The comparisons to overweight people made zero sense.
Common sense? I think you mean “intellectual consistency.”
@@sheevpalpatineofficial5316 yikes
@@sheevpalpatineofficial5316 science bad someone might use it
@@sheevpalpatineofficial5316 lol you’re that handling yourself a medal meme
11:45 HE UNIRONICALLY THINKS WE ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT TRANS PEOPLE IN A CLUB LIKE A WAR DRAFT LMAO I CAN'T WITH THESE PEOLE
AH YES the grandeur plan to turn all the kids trans. tinfoil hat activated
Transphobes are so idiotic
Nice to know that people are fighting for me and others like me. Thanks Destiny :)
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. It very much seems that it's a mental illness.
Rob is the endboss of "facts don't care about my feelings" level of not caring about complex ideas and systems.
Back again
If a doctor said that there was a worm in the meat he wants to eat, he'd do the smell test. He'd go *SNIFFFF* "seems fine" and then he'd take a bite.
@@Etherchannel hello
@@cookiebandit18 well how much does it matter either way in that situation
Ah yes, Rob "Laughing is the opposite of upset" Noerr. One of the most hard hitting thinkers of our time. Amazing.
"Babe, wake up Destiny posted"
It's super telling that whenever these conservative types argue against trans people's right to change their body they ALWAYS talk about trans women...
Telling of what, exactly?
@@swampysix9375 That their hatred of trans people is just an extension of their hatred of women and feminity.
@@SkylierRain lol oh ok
I mean maybe but I think that’s also widely because there just seems to be more trans women in general for some reason. But maybe the reason that’s my perception is because conservatives only talk about trans women in debates so it’s self perpetuating
@The Curb from American History X even crazier stance: trans women are women because it’s a scientific consensus people have and internal feeling of gender and saying that they’re “pretending” is exactly why they commit suicide
Rob gets a lot of shit but he engages with questions and arguments more than 95% of the rest of debate people online
Was just thinking that. Even though what he says can be inconsistent, at least he’s consistently inconsistent. He does try to go off before making points which can really hurt his/a debate tho
Nah 100% agree like i dont agree with him but hes a great debater
He's absolutely annoying to listen to.
Drinking Game: Take a sip every time Rob says brain, physiological and common sense
I'm not suicidal
@@andrewf8366 not even after watching this video?
Please call an ambulance, your game has given me acute liver toxicity.
stop inciting self harm
Oh no…
is destiny going through a conservative arc again?
I doubt it but I hope so
Dude lefties are so boring to debate, i want to see some conservatives getting dumped on
@@muhammadarqam2771 same
As soon as League comes back, The conservative arc comes back.
@@CapnDGAF Painstiny
What's great is that when Rob rambles and rants the audio quality starts to dip and the volume lowers.
It's like an audible representation of Destiny and the audience drowning him out and ignoring him.
He talks and talks, but never listens and doesn't use critical thinking.
so early destiny is liking people's comments. shit's crazy bruh
editor is liking comments*
Based parasocial relationships through editors
hahah, he didn't like yours
His editor runs the yt
Destiny? That’s the exaggerated swagger of a black teenager
Rob has one of the most annoying voices I've ever heard in my life. Definitely top 5
Rob🎣🏈🍔🤠🇺🇸 is typing...
I actually kind like it lol. Hate his politics.
I get why it's annoying, definitely suits the stuff he spouts. Sounds like an Alex Jones type
Who are the other 4?
@@hoominbeeing there is a 4'8 Fillipina lady at my work who sounds just like DMX. I think the rapper Lil Boosie has a rapping voice that makes me want to set myself on fire. I absolutely detest Fran Dressers voice. And the voice of Donald Trump makes me want to stab myself directly in the eardrum
@@hoominbeeing Bonus: Jesse Lee Peterson
Destiny speaking in speeds hither too undreamt of
*puts video on 1.25x speed* WE HAVE TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOOOND, AHHHHHHHHHHH
Why do we appeal to medical sciences to tell us what cancer is and what it's treatment should be? We should just use common sense to treat cancer.
Imagine thinking Trans ideology is science
@@zztapia93 It is otherwise things like Stria Terminalis wont be a thing... Finding brain structural diferencies between gays and straights is what took homosexuality off from the DSM4, same here
In all these debates i really enjoy how the more heated they get the more their mic starts breaking up lol
Holy shit this debate evoked an emotional response so strong I screamed NO!!!
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity.
50 mins of an appeal to common sense fallacy and esoteric definitions 😌 why do I do this to myself
Isnt appeal to authority a fallacy as well? He didnt just appeal to common sense either, he clearly explained his reasoning.
@@bobwilliams4895 Yes, appeal to authority is a fallacy as long as evidence isn't provided. Destiny should have had articles and citations ready if he wanted provide proper evidence but instead they both were fixated on the definitions of what constitutes an illness. Unfortunately Rob explained his reasoning with pretty much no evidence of logic either. Just saying "it's common sense" and insisting something is, in the most general way possible, "an illness" while also trying to get away with ignoring the nuance and importance behind the differences of what qualifies as being a physical or psychological illness in regards to Trans people does very little for his reasoning because those things are fundamentally different and he didn't show even basic understanding of the scientific method or how research studies are conducted. Basically shoots his own authority out of the water which if you want to win an argument, you really need to establish. It's fine and good to criticize research and you should. But without understanding the methodology being used, how, and why doesn't make him credible imo because it shows he doesn't or won't keep to due diligence. Or maybe he's just pretending not to. It just comes off as either willful ignorance or like he's trying to pick and choose parts of incompatible methods for the illusion of reason then wasted time arguing semantics and repeating a very vague reason with no evidence. But that's just me.
@@frumtheground In regards to this debate Rob made a lot more sense imo. Destiny ran to analogies that didn't work or proved Robs own point. Like when he brought up over weight people.
@@bobwilliams4895 wait the appeal to common sense is actually a strong argument in your perspective?
@@bobwilliams4895 Eh. I didn't think Destiny proved anything either, but it was hard to tell where or what he was going for because he was wasting time trying to gage what Rob was saying before Rob moved on point after point. They both really failed imo. Neither of them convinced me of anything or seemed that dedicated to even making a cohesive argument. Comparing schizophrenia, or diabetes to something like Gender Dysphoria are really not at all adequate analogies since they are so functionally different from one another. Classifying something as an illness or not an illness seemed like something Destiny didn't really have a grasp on and he really should have pointed out the actual functionality of Gender Dysphoria and how the biology of the brain is affected if he wanted to really make a point. Or he could have used a more social or historical route which has a lot of sources to draw from. I don't know why he thought he could make any argument without dishing out those very basic things. Not that he had the time to I suppose. It was kind of like watching a kid ask for help with his homework only to find out dad didn't know anymore than he did and you get to listen them argue about it while they both try to understand it and it just gets awkward lol.
If TH-cam's autogenerated subtitles were on this video, Rob's every word would be capslocked.
Destiny?
That's a non binary name
BETA!
"So if I had schizophrenia and I could function perfectly in society, I don't have a mental illness?" YES. Unironically. What makes something a mental illness and not just how someone is as a person is if they are unable to function in society. This isn't just like being able to go to work or something, but being able to live a happy, fulfilling life. Schizophrenia is a really hard mental illness to have and I imagine most with it have their lives negatively affected by it, but, theoretically, if we lived in a society where it didn't negatively affect them and they could live a happy, unencumbered life, then yes, that person would not have a mental illness. I was a psych major and this is the criteria for what is and isn't a mental illness. This just shows that Rob is talking about things he has no fucking idea about.
If you 'have' schizophrenia and you can function perfectly in society, you don't have schizophrenia, correct?
Yesss, I was thinking this! I studied medicine and a key point for the difference between something being like a disorder or just a personality is the effect it has on your ability to live in society. It's part of how you assess addiction often as well. It's a key part of this debate imo
@@corvus5345 no but that's the thing, schizophrenia is categorised as a mental illness because it interrupts people's ability to live a normal life. If it has no negative effects on you then no, it's not a mental illness.
yea there are ways to be schizospec healthily n live with hallucinations healthily lol
It's illness vs disorder
Rob redemption arc Poggers
Rob Noerr Redemption 2
"Slow down there black lung. That's not common sense"
@Chia Pet Rob, is that you?
Wow!!! Editor💖
You are so fast! You are amazing 💖
Watched this live. Watching someone work through cognitive dissonance is entertaining and infuriating at the same time.
Yep, Howard is an interesting dude lol
Very inspiring. I wish I could be as open and curious, while at the same time be strong in your beliefs and boundaries, not afraid to present them as your own but still remain open for change. It's beautiful to see and the way to be imo, in this new age of rapid change
this guy interrupting is the biggest whomegalul ever
A major problem right from the start is that destiny believes that psychology is a science - when really it is the discipline that is furthest from science and we understand the least. Psychological studies are flawed on many levels and a lot of things we study are based heavily on bias. There are some things that are measurable and observable- but transgenderism is the weirdest thing to think is not a mental disorder- or mental anomaly. The idea that you could be born in the wrong body is absolutely ridiculous and is not backed by any observable science other than a persons feelings. Now, that persons feelings are important and matter- and there are things we can and should do to help that person function and succeed in society- and that may include hormones or treatment or maybe even surgery- but to let them believe they are that sex and to try to force the entire world to believe that lie is just ridiculous.
This debate helped me see the difference between the dysphoria and being trans. I don't know about rob but I learned a lot
Gender dysphoria is an illness. Transitioning is the current treatment. Being trans is a descriptor for people with the illness that have transitioned or intend to.
debate destiny about it he'll probably talk to you
I support transgender people and I'm proud to! 🏳️🌈
I’m living for this thank you.
just a fyi he hasn't changed his mind at all people just can't argue as well
I think everyone who watched the video understands that I just love that the editor and Destiny are trolling hard
It's not really about changing his mind.
@@Subrees not trolling. more dishonest and manipulative. for destiny it isn't about having honest conversations about the plights of our times and how we can fix them its about flexing his superior intelligence and debate tactics i see him often talk about how to utilize certain debate strategies in order to get an upperhand rather than to understand he just wants to smash and win and feed his massive ego. it is by no means trolling. hes a smart guy more than nearly any other internet commentator its just too bad he uses his power poorly.
@@mayainverse9429 Oh go cry me a river someplace else. I believe that it's funny that this transphob will get his knickers in a twist when people start calling him the most protrans conservative out there. it literally is trolling. That and it's really good advertising so I don't care why you're upset but hey this video is entertaining and it does good so in the end it's good.
@@mayainverse9429 it doesn’t matter much. you don’t need any emotional motivation or righteousness to argue for something, and if anything taking an apathetic attitude with the only goal of succeeding would help reach the truth faster, much like lawyers do. we can be the judges of if his logical reasoning holds up
actual trans people here: I don't believe I have a female body, I know I don't, that's why I'm trying to make it more like it lmao, Rob eally doesn't know what he's talking about
Body? Isn’t the body a tangible truth? Like breasts vagina XX chromosome would define a female body. How can one say they “know it’s not a female body” if it is though?
@@chadzka I'll just say modern science is amazing. hrt, surgeries and voice training can go a long way, and I don't think anyone care about my chromosomes in a social setting
@@neolordie right that is absurd. No one is gonna ask what your chromosomes are, but that is my argument. If biology says these are the facts. These facts are what defines a male or female body, then why should I believe someone who says otherwise just because?
@@chadzka you lost me a bit ngl,
where does that relate to my first comment ?
@@neolordie ah ok. Help me understand what you meant when you said “ I don’t believe I have a female body, I know I don’t.” And then you went on to say that was why you were trying to make it more like it. I assume you are in the process of reassigning your female counter parts with male counter parts. But I had a hard time understanding what you meant by you don’t have a female body
32:40 you can literally smell the smoke as his brain tries it's hardest to churn out a comeback
It's hilarious. He just backed himself in to a corner and was scrambling to get out of it.
I'm new to Destiny, saw him talk with Aba n came over. I know he has a few controversies preceding him, but tbh his level of moderate leftism is something I've been dying to see, and it's so incredibly refreshing.
It's the debate that made me leave stream. Thank god I can come back and watch it now and feel bad.
The drunken panel was much worse
Anything Rob doesn't like: *"BULLSHIT!"*
anything anyone doesn't like is bullshit.
Good observation captain obvious.
Listening to right wingers talk about transgender people and their issues tends to be painful. I am not saying that all right wingers have painful takes on this topic, but you have to admit that most of the times, it seems that they do. The scary thing is that Rob sounded a bit better than the right wingers I have heard talk about it.
It was painful to watch Rob admit that there's a distinction between being transgender and having gender dysmorphia, then coming to the realization that this means transgender people aren't inherently mentally ill, so he says "aha, I never said they were MENTALLY ill. They're just 'ill'" as if it makes any sense to remove the mental part from a discussion based on the psychological disconnect between mind and body. I get that changing your opinion on something is probably not going to happen in one debate, but holy shit it's painful watching this level of cognitive dissonance.
I am saying all right wingers have painful takes on this topic.
31:40 love how you make rob really think about it and he ends up dunking himself.
We are in the middle ages of mental health. I hear voicses and experts really can't tell me why. I was apart of a brain study. It also helped me get treatment. I never understood schizophrenia in the way of what does it mean to hear voices until I started to hear voicses. I didn't even have the notion to question that I had a mental illness because it was so real. I thought they were real people. Eventually a voice got me to seek out the hospitals. There I was diagnosed after a very lengthy stay. It was tricky because I was afraid if I told anyone about who I was hearing that they were going to die. Around the clock observation and countless conversations with doctors got me to where I am today. An independent identity that works separated from your own thoughts that only you can hear. They even seem smarter then me and they give themselves names and identitys. It just doesn't feel far-fetched for me at all that someone could feel that they belong in a different body. I can't imagine what it's like. The mind is so complex and it is very hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes. unless you really think carefully about the people who you are trying to understand. It just doesn't seem like a leap at all that someone could feel as if they are in the wrong body. And I'm sure that the range of how that affects individuals varies greatly.
To your point: I always say when we can directly monitor/quantify brain chemical composition in someones brain we will be able to instantly (and more accurately) diagnose disorders. Were just not there yet, and partially slow learning because there are many obstacles in studying this on a living patient. Innovations like Musk's Nuerallink may go a very long way in advancing our understanding.
A side note: I wish you a long happy life whether or not we medically achieve a complete treatment of Schizophrenia.
@@Mykulveli I dont think it will ever work like this
@@karimshebeika8010 It could, I would even say it will if humanity continues for at least another 200 years or more. Musk's Nuerallink could be the baby steps to accelerate this process.
They're so close to agreeing it's infuriating. I think if he'd stuck with something like "Dysphoria is the illness, becoming trans is the treatment" that Rob guy would have probably been on board.
But its not really a good treatment in some cases. There are so many instances where people transition and they regretted days, months or even decades after. But there is this cultural push that transitioning is the best treatment and its encouraged to goddamn children.
@@bolmeteussteeldragon47 In _some_ cases. It's an edge case of an edge case that nobody here was qualified enough to comment on. It also doesn't negate the fact that it's by far the most effective treatment available for the ailments discussed here.
As for the "cultural push" around children, that's just not true. It's ludicrous to imply that there's statistically significant swathes of parents abusively pushing their kids into this and the doctors aren't stupid enough to just go "Ok, operation time!" at the drop of a hat. There's always years worth of psychological evaluations and nothing permanent happens until the patients are old enough to make an informed decision.
@@Crispman_777 Read Abigail Shrier's book or watch her interviews and you can see that this cultural push is real. Only reason you do not hear about it is because it is very bad for the left narrative and you gotta do some real soul searching if you advocate this trans stuff while trans regret even suicide spikes over time.
I also hardly believe that this is the most effective treatment. It is the most pushed and celebrated form of treatment because you get so much praise for being trans nowadays.
@The Curb from American History X A treatment isn't defined by it's chance of success. Brain surgery for removing cancer is incredibly risky but it's still a treatment.
@@bolmeteussteeldragon47 The book called "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters."
"The book endorses the contentious concept of rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is not recognized as a medical entity by any major professional institution... She is a freelance journalist who writes for The Wall Street Journal and The Federalist, and has published multiple opinion pieces on trans issues"
Sounds like another non-expert shouting unfounded opinions to me.
This is a great conversation thanks for sharing.
It's finally great to be cleared on what "trans" actually means. Thank you.
I'm two minutes in and Rob has already brought up common sense, this is gonna be hard.
I may have missed this, but it seems like Destiny could’ve won some ground by just asking if a transitioned person still has a physiological illness post treatment (HRT, Surgery, etc.).
Considering how rob seems to think he would reply something along the lines of "If a treatment is shown to cure the person in question then they would no longer have the illness in question"
I don't think that would lead anywhere
rob confidently screaming about things he obviously doesn’t understand is actively killing my brain cells
Good vid
I need this guy to talk with my parents
Its impossible to be pro freedom and anti trans
I've watched the intro like 5 times, that is iconic. I love that so much!!
This is not a college-educated person, let alone a 4th year psychologist
I feel that this guy is almost sort of smart enough to figure it out but he just won't let himself. Maybe with some time, he'll come around.
Until he can submit to the fact that there's a big range of how much one can feel like the opposite gender (or at least other than theirs), and that not every trans person feels actual gender-dysphoria, he won't. As an example - though I wouldn't consider myself trans just because I can't fully identify to being "a man" and I mostly like feminine things, but definitely I don't feel "ill" because of it and I live a totally normal life just as anyone.
Also he didn't seem to understand the correlation between the being gay example, at least he doesn't consider that an illness so there's no consistency in his argument at all.
If you need to become so aggressive to get your point across you can’t debate. Glad destiny maintained composure to get point across.
Agreed. This guy was infuriating to listen to.
Oh lord, this guy.
Destiny has finally embraced bisexual lighting.
Rob Noerr sounds like he eats way too many processed ham and cheese sandwiches.
Appeal to false authority, a fallacy but "Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism. The appeal to authority is a fallacy in argumentation, but deferring to an authority is a reliable heuristic that we all use virtually every day on issues of relatively little importance. There is always a chance that any authority can be wrong, that’s why the critical thinker accepts facts provisionally. It is not at all unreasonable (or an error in reasoning) to accept information as provisionally true by credible authorities. Of course, the reasonableness is moderated by the claim being made (i.e., how extraordinary, how important) and the authority (how credible, how relevant to the claim" people confuse appeal to authority with deferring to an authority, and with that it seems as if a lot of people dont really understand the fallacy
Also hearing these guys scream about something they have no idea about how it actually operates is really irritating as a psychology student
Thank you. People don't understand that the scope of fallacies is actually narrow, and just because something is technically fallacious doesn't mean there isn't value in the wider context of a conversation.
@@chandler7493 yeah same as with ad hominen when someone just calls them a bad word, like no peoplez that's not nessecarily an ad hominem, it's just an insult lol
This was fun.
Thanks 💖
i was here to have my mind changed but destiny didnt convince me at all
That bit at the beginning was like watching Steven Gerrard beat three defenders and put in a screamer from the outside of the box.
Lovely cushioned header for GERRARDDDDDDD!!!
AMAZIN
29:25 Destiny used the "Coca Cola" technique, is it as effective as the "Pizza" technique?
What was the argument for being skeptical of the strict "trans women are women" stuff? I've heard Destiny mention it in his discussions before including RGR and he referenced Contra at one point. But I'm an idiot and usually I am too confused that deep in the convo.
i was wondering the same thing, cuz there are people who call trans women men, so why wouldnt it be relevant to make the statement. the statement it seems to mean is to say trans women are more a woman than a man. to me it seems like its saying trans women are not men lol idk
I had a good laugh at the "big brain" MA in English, who loves playing the semantics game, didn't seem to have a grasp on the fact that "distress" and "anguish" are synonyms.
A trans person without dysphoria isn't a trans person. It makes as much sense to me as "an autistic person without neuro divergence"
Someone please clip the “But I’m not doing that” at 20:11 😂😂😂
30:26 Destiny trying to make the argument that a women's brain being born in a man's body is normal has to be one of the worst pro-trans arguments I've ever seen.
It's not typical, but it's normal. Green eyes aren't typical, but they're normal. Being gay isn't typical, but it's normal.
@@Snuzzled Look up the definition of normal. Normal is typical.
there is no study that suggests biologists or neurologists could correctly identify the sex when given any brain.
Right in my feeeeed (been studying so missed a few notis)
that teaser...beautiful, champ.
is this the guy from that cartoon with the 'jerk' tee-shirt?
Detisny? a name that's i having a stroke name...
Having a stroke? Only loserdth havthe sthrokdd habfnjifg gfjd fm
This debates destiny lost stroke is
Choe Piten name??
Rob really seems like the sort of pedantic person that tries to find technical wins over anything substantially meaningful in a debate
beautiful opening
Based on this title, it's gonna be an amazing video. This is what i want to see.