Let it be known that despite any streaming issues, the full stream vod here is perfectly clear and audible throughout with no noticeable technical issues
Destined Death could also be interpreted simply as the promise that all things eventually meet their end. It was sealed because the Golden Order didn't want their age to end and that meant living forever, which brings stagnation. Once destined death is unleashed, The giant's flame doesn't get more powerful, it only regains the power to burn the erdtree down; it's more like the natural order of things comes back. Fire is able to burn down entire forests IRL.
Really appreciate all the comments everyone, y'all didn't disappoint. Sorry I had to pass by so many-- I'll have to go through the chat replay to see everything again.
Also, sorry once again for all the stream problems, there are some bad jumps even in the VOD. It struck me that this stream was an example of reverse causality. In a sense, chat was living in the future, whereas I was in the past. However, I was downstream in causality from chat, because chat would say things and I would respond to it afterwards. So, in this case, the future came before the past. QED
@@CrunchyVideos Ha! That's a great take. The deep stream-lore. I wouldn't miss seeing you fumble with the tech :) and she sealed a fragment of Destined Death within her eye. At the end of the Frenzied Flame ending, the seal is broken, her eye and hair change, the GEQ awakens, and the scene cuts out before we get to see her pull the Godslaying Greatsword from her eye :P It's just as dumb as it is fun! :D
love your streams and video because they are like "food for thoughts": you don't pretend to know the hidden truth behind everything like other youtubers do but instead encourage discussion.
@@MadAtreides1Exactly why I love Crunchy’s videos so much, they spark thought and conversation through interesting questions and observations rather than didactic readings of elements arranged in a specific order.
I know I'm late but I wanted to say I like the shadow side idea, like taking the Jungian concept and making it a literal, physical thing. It gets a little confusing because they already do literally have a shadow (Maliketh, Blaidd, etc) but for the empyrean or demigod themselves, maybe it's something like the Holy Trinity: the three-who-are-one. in this case two. I appreciate all the thought you've put into this. Very cool stuff!
Late but i think destined death is actually the spirit being allowed to leave the physical world and enter the spiritual world of the Helphin which I speculate is the dlc's main location
I think the rune of death got distorted by the ritual that Rani performed and the ritual itself came from the magic of the outer god of the deathbirds. That is why it took the shape that is has. A half wheel symbolizes living in death but two half-wheels combined (or an eclipse symbol) symbolize the rebirth. It is just an alternative rebirth cycle when instead of returning to the eardtree you live in death. One way or another you still get reincarnated. Same thing with the outer god of rot. In his reincarnate cycle people die of rot only to be reborn again and die of rot again.
Yup, marika wanted to topple the order, that's why she banished Godfrey as a backup and may have a role in the death of Godwyn. She maybe was trying to kill the elden beast and maybe radagon was holding her back and that's why instead of killing the beast it only got shattered, hence the fracture mark on the elden beast. She failed and got punished by the greater will, she knew she might fail and she knew that the events will lead to grace being returned to the tarnished (her backup) who can change or even end the current order. She might be plotting all this when she decided to separate the rune of death, she made sure she didn't die until she set everything in motion, she might have wanted to develop a weapon to end the elden beast, and maybe the death of Godwyn was not only the part of plan but also test of fingure slayer blade (maybe ranni found out about this and ruined the plan because of her selfishness as she wanted to seperate her for the order and stole half centipede to kill her body and Godwyn suffered as he was maybe supposed to die completely but because of this only his soul died) , someone had to make that weapon and that someone was maybe hewg and after the half death of Godwyn marika might have been pissed with hewg and hewg saw it as a failure and was determined to develop weapons to end a god. Also the blade was able to selectively kill soul or body that means maybe marika wanted to kill radagon's soul after killing Godwyn so that both people who were very loyal to golden order won't stand in her way. The assassins were very close to marika they must have been following her orders. And after her plans didn't go as they were supposed to, radagon might have figured out her betrayal and she had no other choice than to go ahead with the unfinished weapon to end the elden beast and failed as radagon was still alive and tried to hold her back. This is just me reaching too far, but she might have other backup plans with miqella, to find ways to repel the gods from this realm. She might have even lost her children to outer gods,there are so many references to unborn children in the game, hence when she gave birth to omens she was not happy about it. Cause not only gods try to claim her child now they are outright connected to them. Elden beast might have wanted to attach itself to her children after she died and hence she removed the rune of death and killed the only child that could have inherited the beast even when she was alive. She might have seen something soo horrifying in the order that she was hell bent on destroying it even if she has to kill one of her own.
Hate to comment late but on the topic of how the demigods aren't completely dead after we kill them, I don't think any of them actually "die". Rennala is completely unharmed, Godricks head is still there, Morgott's body is still there and you can even talk to it. Mohg leaves behind a suspicious pile of blood like the one he forms out of. Malenia is still there as a scarlet aeonia. Rykards serpent body is still around and presumably alive. The only one that's harder to justify is Radahn, but it's entirely possible that the pieces of his corpse were eaten by Alexander, as he says "...there's a veritable mountain of warriors' bodies right here. If I can just squeeze this bunch down inside me...". Then after we unseal destined death, we see Godfrey holding Morgotts body as it finally dies a true death. As for the others I'm not sure, but maybe the greater will has some sort of power over who dies now that the rune of death is returned. Not sure what to make of any of this, but it's been on my mind since the game came out and I haven't seen a lot of discussion on the topic.
all demigods are spurned by order i highly doubt elden ring or its effect is upon them anymore plus what u said about demigods are their remnants or leftovers exception of rennala and morgott, true death can only be activated by inserting rune of death in elden ring which i highly doubt we do in game only ending with proper death is age of duskborn.
Ive been theorizing a lot about godwyn, and his death and the finger readers dialogue, especially the "martyr of death". As you mention, It does vaguely imply godwyn's full death was "part of the plan", until ranni incercepted it with her half death. Anouther idea ive been more seriously entertsining recently is that Marike is the GEQ, a dark repressed part of her. I point to the video series, The Great Works, for more on this idea. Theres a lot to say about this, but for berevity i'll point to Marika's line about "sacrificing" her demigods children. For some reason hearing you talk about godwyn's death ,specifically when you said he is the son of god and "died for our sins", suddely brought this idea to my mind: Marika is the GEQ, but in order to keep that part of her repressed/sealed, and maintain the GO, she has to sacrifice her son to the GEQ half of her. Basically as a way to quench her thirst for death. This would expalin the "martyr" line perfectly. Marika, the fingers, and possibly the eternal cities where behind this plan. However, the sacrifice was intercepted when ranni slew her flesh, and so the sacrifice was not fully delivered, theGEQ was not sated. So they start slaying the other demigods in an attempt to appease her. However this is unsatisfactory, and "Marika is driven to the brink", the GEQ is unleashed and she eventually shatters the elden ring, basically an attempted suicide. Radagon is the part of her that wishes to maintain the current order. After all, he embodies the Golden Order. So he repairs the elden ring when Marika/GEQ shatters it. In this paradigm, you could say Radagon and GEQ are two opposing sides of the Whole that is Marika. Perhaps Radagons feeling of incompletion come from him lacking the GEQ part of her. The contradiction being that he cant become complete, he cant become a god, because to do so would mean to embrace death, aka the end of his age. Edit: you can interpret they "thou art yet to become me" echos as radagons suicidal thoughts of over his lack of completeness. His GEQ other half sneaking in and telling him to shatter the golden order. Because Death is the only way for him to feel complete "Thourt yet to become me". These suicidal thoughts could've attempted to be quenched by the slaying of godwyn afterall godwyn looks and acts very similar to radagon. Radagon bassically lets a bit of the geq slip back in( this is analogous to the shard of the rune of death/geq being stolen) And entertained his own death by slaying godwyn. The black knife assassin found right by the bedchamber could serve as a clue to this. Eventually after Marika shatters the elden ring. She is imprisoned , the shattering wars ensues but no demigod rises to godhood. Luckly the GEQ had one final trick up her sleeve, she had already imprisoned Hewg to create a weapon that can slay a god, and she recalled the tarnished that will wield this weapon to kill radagon/herself and put an end to her age. Marika might be be "the eternal", because the GEQ part of her is eternal. You cannot kill her, you can only forestall her. Rykard says "a serpent never dies" when you kill him - and tanith soon begins to consume him, the implication being that she eventually becomes rykard 2.0. The GEQ also has serpentine imagery from the godskins. Perhaps the GEQ reemerges in every age , like the eternal champion, to put an end to the age when it begins to stagnate. Marika can be akin to an Eternal Serpent that eats itself at the end of every age, and is then renewed. After all, in every ending we put marikas head back, the elden ring is still housed inside her, so she seems to still plays a role. Despite "god slain" text, each age is just a sheding of the skin for her. Edit: ok wow, as i continue watching you seem to reach a similar idea at around the 1:31:18 I should probably finish the video before posting long as comments lol.
Why is there a day night cycle in game if the erdtree has supplanted the sun? Does the moon approaching the lands between diminish the power of the erdtree, making it darker? Or is daylight the default state of the sky until the moon comes and brings the void+stars with it? It would be fascinating if darkness in the lnds between worked like light does in our world
I understand that Elden Ring was before the Elden Beast arrived. Elden Beast simply took over the Elden Ring and made it so it's compatible with Greater Will.
Elden Stars item description says that a star fell bearing a beast that later became the elden ring. The beast is the ring or the star is but either way the elden beast is older than the elden ring.
Hey Crunchy, I really love these long-form analysis videos, overwhelming as they might be. There’s a lot I could respond to, but I want to stick to the subject of the golden star and the Elden Beast, which I believe is the single most important piece of lore in the entire game. This will elaborate on a comment on this same subject which I left on your video about the structure of reality. This story of the Elden Beast is about the arrival of Order and Chaos into the world. The Beast symbolizes Chaos, and the Elden Ring symbolizes Order. The primal form of the Erdtree was the Crucible, which in real life is essentially a basin of formless fire from which things are created and given form, showing how Order rises out of Chaos (or in other words, how the Beast becomes the Ring). In my comment on your previous video, I explained how this is meant to illustrate the natural process through which a mere warrior becomes Elden Lord. The red hair of Radagon and the cursed blood of Godfrey and the Tarnished are signs of their inherent connection to the Crucible, and their marriage to the goddess symbolizes a sacred alchemical union of Chaos and Order… but let me pump the brakes here before I reiterate the entire comment. Now, yes - you could pedantically pick this apart and say no, it’s not about Order and Chaos because the Chaos flame is yellow while the Crucible flame is red - and while I’m sure there is some significance to the color difference, I think thematically my thesis is sound. It’s about form rising out of formlessness; the violent force of the Beast which brings not only death and destruction, but also creation and Order. We see this also in the symbol of Marika’s hammer, which was used to both break and repair the Ring. That is the basis of the everlasting tension between the laws of Regression and Causality: Order must eternally strive to separate itself from the entropic Chaos which eternally seeks to return all things to One again. It’s never stated in-game exactly what was the first fracture in the One Great, but based on the themes of the game, I strongly believe the first fracture was the separation of Order from Chaos, thus creating both (like in Dark Souls, how the appearance of the First Flame resulted in dual opposites: life and death, light and dark, etc). As for where this falls in the timeline and how it changed the Lands Between, my interpretation is that before the arrival of the Elden Ring in its primal state, there was no Order, no form, no life of any kind. The world was nothing but magma and flame, like our own world billions of years ago, and the Elden Beast was the first of all beasts, the father of all life, and the true first Elden Lord. The initial emergence of Order was what compelled the primordial titans to rise from the depths and build the first structures (the art of smithing, after all, is said to have originated with the Giant race). These were the great pillars upon which the formless magma would cool and harden into the land as we know it. Thus began the cycle referenced by the Memory of Grace description: the rise and fall of civilizations, gods, and Orders.
I would love if after you released Destined Death, NPCs stayed dead when you killed them. I think the impact of that would really be worth putting aside gameplay considerations.
First of all, I'm not too knowledgeable on Hebrew mythology so sorry if this makes no sense, but. The golden calf is a story from the old testament and it might have been one of the inspirations for Martin or Miyazaki. I am not sure about the exact connection between Godwyn and the golden calf but it was worth it for me to look into despite not yet bearing any fruit. I do recommend at least reading the Britannica article if you're interested, which details the story much better than I could in the comments.
I figured it out. Marika was born a human in the Eternal City during the Age of The Crucible. She rose to Godhood by defeating Placidusax. She erected the Age of the Erdtree and former The Golden Order. Hora Loux was a great and mighty champion during the age of the Crucible rivaled only by Marika himself. He was a champion of The Crucible itself, he being the leader of the Crucible Knights. He shower them the power of Grafting and thus came the Aspect of the Cruible Incantations mimicking the power of Grafting. These forms being aspects of the Crucible and it's power seem to indicate they were an order of Crucible devotees akin to the Golden Order Fundamentalists. This could be the age in which The God of Rot was defeated by the Blind Swordsman. It was when Astel was trapped beneath the planey and thr Eternal City fell. The Age when the Astrologers called the Giants their neighbors. We seem to think of time as looping but I think that is more gameplay than anything. Enemies likely don't respawn in the perspective of yhe player. They likely do not die over and over repeatedly to win. For them it is a seamless journey in which they kill everyone they fight without dying. Why else would Erde try to kill you at Roundtable Hold? Why would Gideon? If they knew you could respawn infinitely, if nobody could truly die, then why do so many permanantly die? How did the Giants fall to naught but one in number?
The power of the Erdtree only extends so far. Deep below The Lands Between the Erdrree has no roots and thus is subject to the wills and interfereance of other Outer Gods! The tribal folk with the Ancestral Spirit seem to be remnants of the worshippers of The Crucible. Deep below Leyndell is where they keep The Three Fingers of the Frenzied Flame. As well it is where The Formless Mother first reached Mohg, and where is Moghwyn Palace? Deep below ground beneath the roots of the Erdtree! Just like with the Lake of Rot.
Melrna is a completed Silver Tear. A Golden Tear if you will. She is a copy of Marika, who would know the method to make one, being from The Eternal City.
When you're talking about Ranni "choosing" Godwyn, perhaps for her ritual to work that killed her Empyrean flesh, the other sacrifice had to have an equal standing? Considering Godwyn's apparent lack of corruption, perhaps he was the only candidate viable enough to match Ranni's... "perfection". I watched another theory essay video the other day, and in it, the person mentions that the use of the word "god" in this game isn't capitalised as a proper noun, generally implying that in all likelihood, the definition of a god in this setting is just someone with a significant enough power level to be on that level. The definition is brought up in this video: th-cam.com/video/CKIPh9H0DKk/w-d-xo.html Although I do not know whereabouts.
most lore channels are better than vaati, imo. He has mass appeal but lacks depth. The best used to be Hawkshaw or JSF for the older games and nowadays it's for sure Tarnished Archeologist.
@@coreyrachar9694 Lacking depth is the perfect way to describe Vaati. He pretty much just describes what happens in the games- no real analysis, just recap. I haven't heard of JSF, unless it's an acronym I don't recognize. I've seen several of Tarnished Archaeologist's videos. He's good, but some of his theories are just a bit too much of a stretch for me, and he sometimes seems to blur the line between established fact and speculation. I think there's some real merit to his idea that the Erdtree was burned once before and that it may be illusory in some manner, but I simply don't agree that only certain people can see it. Still, at least it's a better theory than Ziostorm's "everything is mushrooms" idea.
Godwyn was the only guy aside from Miquella that looks like a guy. And Godwyn wasnt an Empyrian, as it is mentioned nowere that he was. Maybe they thought they needed a man as posterboy for the golden order because Godfrey is his dad and hes the big man chosen by Marika. The other Empyrians are all chicks and women are seen as the weaker sex but also needed to create offspring. Just like kings in old times and they wanting a son to become their heir. Miquella being both a guy and looking like a girl may have the public doubt their rulers. Maybe a thing hailing from the time of the Crucible. That also may be why the black knives, who were all women, killed Godwyn. Because he was a dude who was supposed to be THE dude and the Black knives showed the public he AINT the dude. I think we are searching to deeply into what everything is or stands for and its all much simpler then we think. I want to make Elden Ring videos about what i found out but i suck at putting my words to paper in a concise and understandable way.
So there was so many things to bring up. But here's one. What does Melina actually do? She does not do anything that a maiden would not do. If the characters maiden was never killed, it would make no difference.
She acts as a role for the Maiden, because she isn’t actually one.. And, Matter of fact, she does do what Maidens do, in game: Guide their Tarnished to becoming Elden Lord, through offering transposition of their runes into strength… this is her role in the context of the game we play… Of course there are many theories with melina, and her ties to the Gloam Queen, Rune of death, Marika etc… but that doesn’t really matter right (unless explored in DLC)
@@pigzy9807 actually besides being regular, she’s the only maidan that is able to burn the erdtree. Bernhal the Recusant had made it to the mountain top and sacrificed his own Maidan unknowingly sacrificing his only way to gain strength with no reward I.E burning of the ErdTree. Because it is only a kindling maidan aka Melina
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Let it be known that despite any streaming issues, the full stream vod here is perfectly clear and audible throughout with no noticeable technical issues
Destined Death could also be interpreted simply as the promise that all things eventually meet their end. It was sealed because the Golden Order didn't want their age to end and that meant living forever, which brings stagnation. Once destined death is unleashed, The giant's flame doesn't get more powerful, it only regains the power to burn the erdtree down; it's more like the natural order of things comes back. Fire is able to burn down entire forests IRL.
Really appreciate all the comments everyone, y'all didn't disappoint. Sorry I had to pass by so many-- I'll have to go through the chat replay to see everything again.
Also, sorry once again for all the stream problems, there are some bad jumps even in the VOD. It struck me that this stream was an example of reverse causality. In a sense, chat was living in the future, whereas I was in the past. However, I was downstream in causality from chat, because chat would say things and I would respond to it afterwards. So, in this case, the future came before the past. QED
@@CrunchyVideos Ha! That's a great take. The deep stream-lore. I wouldn't miss seeing you fumble with the tech :) and she sealed a fragment of Destined Death within her eye. At the end of the Frenzied Flame ending, the seal is broken, her eye and hair change, the GEQ awakens, and the scene cuts out before we get to see her pull the Godslaying Greatsword from her eye :P It's just as dumb as it is fun! :D
love your streams and video because they are like "food for thoughts": you don't pretend to know the hidden truth behind everything like other youtubers do but instead encourage discussion.
@@MadAtreides1Exactly why I love Crunchy’s videos so much, they spark thought and conversation through interesting questions and observations rather than didactic readings of elements arranged in a specific order.
I assumed getting the Rune of Death is for killing the Elden Beast. "Why covet Destined Death? To kill what?"
It's gotta be
I know I'm late but I wanted to say I like the shadow side idea, like taking the Jungian concept and making it a literal, physical thing. It gets a little confusing because they already do literally have a shadow (Maliketh, Blaidd, etc) but for the empyrean or demigod themselves, maybe it's something like the Holy Trinity: the three-who-are-one. in this case two. I appreciate all the thought you've put into this. Very cool stuff!
Late but i think destined death is actually the spirit being allowed to leave the physical world and enter the spiritual world of the Helphin which I speculate is the dlc's main location
Start at 7:50
You're the real Elden Lord
The real Elden Ring is the saviors who saved my time along the way, trying to watch these "streamed earlier" videos. You are a hero!
I think the rune of death got distorted by the ritual that Rani performed and the ritual itself came from the magic of the outer god of the deathbirds. That is why it took the shape that is has. A half wheel symbolizes living in death but two half-wheels combined (or an eclipse symbol) symbolize the rebirth. It is just an alternative rebirth cycle when instead of returning to the eardtree you live in death. One way or another you still get reincarnated.
Same thing with the outer god of rot. In his reincarnate cycle people die of rot only to be reborn again and die of rot again.
Didn't hewg promise Marika he'd make a sword to slay a god?
Yup, marika wanted to topple the order, that's why she banished Godfrey as a backup and may have a role in the death of Godwyn. She maybe was trying to kill the elden beast and maybe radagon was holding her back and that's why instead of killing the beast it only got shattered, hence the fracture mark on the elden beast. She failed and got punished by the greater will, she knew she might fail and she knew that the events will lead to grace being returned to the tarnished (her backup) who can change or even end the current order. She might be plotting all this when she decided to separate the rune of death, she made sure she didn't die until she set everything in motion, she might have wanted to develop a weapon to end the elden beast, and maybe the death of Godwyn was not only the part of plan but also test of fingure slayer blade (maybe ranni found out about this and ruined the plan because of her selfishness as she wanted to seperate her for the order and stole half centipede to kill her body and Godwyn suffered as he was maybe supposed to die completely but because of this only his soul died) , someone had to make that weapon and that someone was maybe hewg and after the half death of Godwyn marika might have been pissed with hewg and hewg saw it as a failure and was determined to develop weapons to end a god. Also the blade was able to selectively kill soul or body that means maybe marika wanted to kill radagon's soul after killing Godwyn so that both people who were very loyal to golden order won't stand in her way. The assassins were very close to marika they must have been following her orders.
And after her plans didn't go as they were supposed to, radagon might have figured out her betrayal and she had no other choice than to go ahead with the unfinished weapon to end the elden beast and failed as radagon was still alive and tried to hold her back.
This is just me reaching too far, but she might have other backup plans with miqella, to find ways to repel the gods from this realm.
She might have even lost her children to outer gods,there are so many references to unborn children in the game, hence when she gave birth to omens she was not happy about it. Cause not only gods try to claim her child now they are outright connected to them. Elden beast might have wanted to attach itself to her children after she died and hence she removed the rune of death and killed the only child that could have inherited the beast even when she was alive. She might have seen something soo horrifying in the order that she was hell bent on destroying it even if she has to kill one of her own.
Hate to comment late but on the topic of how the demigods aren't completely dead after we kill them, I don't think any of them actually "die". Rennala is completely unharmed, Godricks head is still there, Morgott's body is still there and you can even talk to it. Mohg leaves behind a suspicious pile of blood like the one he forms out of. Malenia is still there as a scarlet aeonia. Rykards serpent body is still around and presumably alive. The only one that's harder to justify is Radahn, but it's entirely possible that the pieces of his corpse were eaten by Alexander, as he says "...there's a veritable mountain of warriors' bodies right here. If I can just squeeze this bunch down inside me...".
Then after we unseal destined death, we see Godfrey holding Morgotts body as it finally dies a true death. As for the others I'm not sure, but maybe the greater will has some sort of power over who dies now that the rune of death is returned.
Not sure what to make of any of this, but it's been on my mind since the game came out and I haven't seen a lot of discussion on the topic.
all demigods are spurned by order i highly doubt elden ring or its effect is upon them anymore plus what u said about demigods are their remnants or leftovers exception of rennala and morgott, true death can only be activated by inserting rune of death in elden ring which i highly doubt we do in game only ending with proper death is age of duskborn.
So, in short, it’s all quite confusing
Is Marika a perfected silver tear and She summoned Astel against the Nux? Mindblowing
Ive been theorizing a lot about godwyn, and his death and the finger readers dialogue, especially the "martyr of death". As you mention, It does vaguely imply godwyn's full death was "part of the plan", until ranni incercepted it with her half death.
Anouther idea ive been more seriously entertsining recently is that Marike is the GEQ, a dark repressed part of her. I point to the video series, The Great Works, for more on this idea. Theres a lot to say about this, but for berevity i'll point to Marika's line about "sacrificing" her demigods children.
For some reason hearing you talk about godwyn's death ,specifically when you said he is the son of god and "died for our sins", suddely brought this idea to my mind:
Marika is the GEQ, but in order to keep that part of her repressed/sealed, and maintain the GO, she has to sacrifice her son to the GEQ half of her. Basically as a way to quench her thirst for death. This would expalin the "martyr" line perfectly.
Marika, the fingers, and possibly the eternal cities where behind this plan. However, the sacrifice was intercepted when ranni slew her flesh, and so the sacrifice was not fully delivered, theGEQ was not sated. So they start slaying the other demigods in an attempt to appease her. However this is unsatisfactory, and "Marika is driven to the brink", the GEQ is unleashed and she eventually shatters the elden ring, basically an attempted suicide.
Radagon is the part of her that wishes to maintain the current order. After all, he embodies the Golden Order. So he repairs the elden ring when Marika/GEQ shatters it. In this paradigm, you could say Radagon and GEQ are two opposing sides of the Whole that is Marika. Perhaps Radagons feeling of incompletion come from him lacking the GEQ part of her. The contradiction being that he cant become complete, he cant become a god, because to do so would mean to embrace death, aka the end of his age.
Edit: you can interpret they "thou art yet to become me" echos as radagons suicidal thoughts of over his lack of completeness. His GEQ other half sneaking in and telling him to shatter the golden order. Because Death is the only way for him to feel complete "Thourt yet to become me".
These suicidal thoughts could've attempted to be quenched by the slaying of godwyn afterall godwyn looks and acts very similar to radagon.
Radagon bassically lets a bit of the geq slip back in( this is analogous to the shard of the rune of death/geq being stolen) And entertained his own death by slaying godwyn. The black knife assassin found right by the bedchamber could serve as a clue to this.
Eventually after Marika shatters the elden ring. She is imprisoned , the shattering wars ensues but no demigod rises to godhood. Luckly the GEQ had one final trick up her sleeve, she had already imprisoned Hewg to create a weapon that can slay a god, and she recalled the tarnished that will wield this weapon to kill radagon/herself and put an end to her age.
Marika might be be "the eternal", because the GEQ part of her is eternal. You cannot kill her, you can only forestall her. Rykard says "a serpent never dies" when you kill him - and tanith soon begins to consume him, the implication being that she eventually becomes rykard 2.0. The GEQ also has serpentine imagery from the godskins. Perhaps the GEQ reemerges in every age , like the eternal champion, to put an end to the age when it begins to stagnate. Marika can be akin to an Eternal Serpent that eats itself at the end of every age, and is then renewed. After all, in every ending we put marikas head back, the elden ring is still housed inside her, so she seems to still plays a role. Despite "god slain" text, each age is just a sheding of the skin for her.
Edit: ok wow, as i continue watching you seem to reach a similar idea at around the 1:31:18 I should probably finish the video before posting long as comments lol.
Why is there a day night cycle in game if the erdtree has supplanted the sun? Does the moon approaching the lands between diminish the power of the erdtree, making it darker? Or is daylight the default state of the sky until the moon comes and brings the void+stars with it? It would be fascinating if darkness in the lnds between worked like light does in our world
I understand that Elden Ring was before the Elden Beast arrived. Elden Beast simply took over the Elden Ring and made it so it's compatible with Greater Will.
Elden Stars item description says that a star fell bearing a beast that later became the elden ring. The beast is the ring or the star is but either way the elden beast is older than the elden ring.
Hey Crunchy, I really love these long-form analysis videos, overwhelming as they might be. There’s a lot I could respond to, but I want to stick to the subject of the golden star and the Elden Beast, which I believe is the single most important piece of lore in the entire game. This will elaborate on a comment on this same subject which I left on your video about the structure of reality.
This story of the Elden Beast is about the arrival of Order and Chaos into the world. The Beast symbolizes Chaos, and the Elden Ring symbolizes Order. The primal form of the Erdtree was the Crucible, which in real life is essentially a basin of formless fire from which things are created and given form, showing how Order rises out of Chaos (or in other words, how the Beast becomes the Ring). In my comment on your previous video, I explained how this is meant to illustrate the natural process through which a mere warrior becomes Elden Lord. The red hair of Radagon and the cursed blood of Godfrey and the Tarnished are signs of their inherent connection to the Crucible, and their marriage to the goddess symbolizes a sacred alchemical union of Chaos and Order… but let me pump the brakes here before I reiterate the entire comment.
Now, yes - you could pedantically pick this apart and say no, it’s not about Order and Chaos because the Chaos flame is yellow while the Crucible flame is red - and while I’m sure there is some significance to the color difference, I think thematically my thesis is sound. It’s about form rising out of formlessness; the violent force of the Beast which brings not only death and destruction, but also creation and Order. We see this also in the symbol of Marika’s hammer, which was used to both break and repair the Ring. That is the basis of the everlasting tension between the laws of Regression and Causality: Order must eternally strive to separate itself from the entropic Chaos which eternally seeks to return all things to One again. It’s never stated in-game exactly what was the first fracture in the One Great, but based on the themes of the game, I strongly believe the first fracture was the separation of Order from Chaos, thus creating both (like in Dark Souls, how the appearance of the First Flame resulted in dual opposites: life and death, light and dark, etc).
As for where this falls in the timeline and how it changed the Lands Between, my interpretation is that before the arrival of the Elden Ring in its primal state, there was no Order, no form, no life of any kind. The world was nothing but magma and flame, like our own world billions of years ago, and the Elden Beast was the first of all beasts, the father of all life, and the true first Elden Lord. The initial emergence of Order was what compelled the primordial titans to rise from the depths and build the first structures (the art of smithing, after all, is said to have originated with the Giant race). These were the great pillars upon which the formless magma would cool and harden into the land as we know it. Thus began the cycle referenced by the Memory of Grace description: the rise and fall of civilizations, gods, and Orders.
I would love if after you released Destined Death, NPCs stayed dead when you killed them. I think the impact of that would really be worth putting aside gameplay considerations.
Hope I catch the next one live
maybe melina is marika like st trina is to miquella? both are physically not in the game but like spiritually active
First of all, I'm not too knowledgeable on Hebrew mythology so sorry if this makes no sense, but. The golden calf is a story from the old testament and it might have been one of the inspirations for Martin or Miyazaki. I am not sure about the exact connection between Godwyn and the golden calf but it was worth it for me to look into despite not yet bearing any fruit. I do recommend at least reading the Britannica article if you're interested, which details the story much better than I could in the comments.
I figured it out. Marika was born a human in the Eternal City during the Age of The Crucible. She rose to Godhood by defeating Placidusax. She erected the Age of the Erdtree and former The Golden Order. Hora Loux was a great and mighty champion during the age of the Crucible rivaled only by Marika himself. He was a champion of The Crucible itself, he being the leader of the Crucible Knights. He shower them the power of Grafting and thus came the Aspect of the Cruible Incantations mimicking the power of Grafting. These forms being aspects of the Crucible and it's power seem to indicate they were an order of Crucible devotees akin to the Golden Order Fundamentalists. This could be the age in which The God of Rot was defeated by the Blind Swordsman. It was when Astel was trapped beneath the planey and thr Eternal City fell. The Age when the Astrologers called the Giants their neighbors. We seem to think of time as looping but I think that is more gameplay than anything. Enemies likely don't respawn in the perspective of yhe player. They likely do not die over and over repeatedly to win. For them it is a seamless journey in which they kill everyone they fight without dying. Why else would Erde try to kill you at Roundtable Hold? Why would Gideon? If they knew you could respawn infinitely, if nobody could truly die, then why do so many permanantly die? How did the Giants fall to naught but one in number?
The power of the Erdtree only extends so far. Deep below The Lands Between the Erdrree has no roots and thus is subject to the wills and interfereance of other Outer Gods! The tribal folk with the Ancestral Spirit seem to be remnants of the worshippers of The Crucible. Deep below Leyndell is where they keep The Three Fingers of the Frenzied Flame. As well it is where The Formless Mother first reached Mohg, and where is Moghwyn Palace? Deep below ground beneath the roots of the Erdtree! Just like with the Lake of Rot.
Melrna is a completed Silver Tear. A Golden Tear if you will. She is a copy of Marika, who would know the method to make one, being from The Eternal City.
When you're talking about Ranni "choosing" Godwyn, perhaps for her ritual to work that killed her Empyrean flesh, the other sacrifice had to have an equal standing? Considering Godwyn's apparent lack of corruption, perhaps he was the only candidate viable enough to match Ranni's... "perfection".
I watched another theory essay video the other day, and in it, the person mentions that the use of the word "god" in this game isn't capitalised as a proper noun, generally implying that in all likelihood, the definition of a god in this setting is just someone with a significant enough power level to be on that level.
The definition is brought up in this video: th-cam.com/video/CKIPh9H0DKk/w-d-xo.html
Although I do not know whereabouts.
Great stream man.
Better than Vaati. Yeah, I said it. Fight me.
There's lots of different lorekeepers for elden ring on youtube with different styles and depths of content, there's no need to fight.
@@AnaatthiGozo I know, I was joking about actually fighting, it's just sort of an expression. I respect everyone's opinions.
most lore channels are better than vaati, imo. He has mass appeal but lacks depth. The best used to be Hawkshaw or JSF for the older games and nowadays it's for sure Tarnished Archeologist.
@AnaatthiGozo there can only be one.
@@coreyrachar9694 Lacking depth is the perfect way to describe Vaati. He pretty much just describes what happens in the games- no real analysis, just recap. I haven't heard of JSF, unless it's an acronym I don't recognize.
I've seen several of Tarnished Archaeologist's videos. He's good, but some of his theories are just a bit too much of a stretch for me, and he sometimes seems to blur the line between established fact and speculation. I think there's some real merit to his idea that the Erdtree was burned once before and that it may be illusory in some manner, but I simply don't agree that only certain people can see it. Still, at least it's a better theory than Ziostorm's "everything is mushrooms" idea.
Godwyn was the only guy aside from Miquella that looks like a guy. And Godwyn wasnt an Empyrian, as it is mentioned nowere that he was. Maybe they thought they needed a man as posterboy for the golden order because Godfrey is his dad and hes the big man chosen by Marika. The other Empyrians are all chicks and women are seen as the weaker sex but also needed to create offspring. Just like kings in old times and they wanting a son to become their heir. Miquella being both a guy and looking like a girl may have the public doubt their rulers. Maybe a thing hailing from the time of the Crucible. That also may be why the black knives, who were all women, killed Godwyn. Because he was a dude who was supposed to be THE dude and the Black knives showed the public he AINT the dude. I think we are searching to deeply into what everything is or stands for and its all much simpler then we think. I want to make Elden Ring videos about what i found out but i suck at putting my words to paper in a concise and understandable way.
Love the misandrist black knives theory. 🤣
So there was so many things to bring up. But here's one. What does Melina actually do? She does not do anything that a maiden would not do. If the characters maiden was never killed, it would make no difference.
She acts as a role for the Maiden, because she isn’t actually one..
And, Matter of fact, she does do what Maidens do, in game: Guide their Tarnished to becoming Elden Lord, through offering transposition of their runes into strength… this is her role in the context of the game we play…
Of course there are many theories with melina, and her ties to the Gloam Queen, Rune of death, Marika etc… but that doesn’t really matter right (unless explored in DLC)
@@HeevaEgo Right so she does nothing special, nothing our normal maiden would not have done. Other than giving us torrent which gets Ranni interested.
@@pigzy9807 actually besides being regular, she’s the only maidan that is able to burn the erdtree. Bernhal the Recusant had made it to the mountain top and sacrificed his own Maidan unknowingly sacrificing his only way to gain strength with no reward I.E burning of the ErdTree. Because it is only a kindling maidan aka Melina