One thing that always stood out to me is how the Marika/Radagon revelation impacts the Goldmask quest. When we encounter Goldmask at Leyndell he has run into a block on his mission to 'fix' the flaws of the Golden Order, whatever that entails, as according to Corhyn he has become obsessed with Radagon and in order to continue on his quest we must inform him that Marika and Radagon are the same being. What I took this to mean is that the nature of Marika and Radagon's existence, and by extension the other examples of dual/multi identities seen throughout the game, are somehow central to the nature of the Golden Order itself. Why else would that in particular be the one thing that Goldmask needs in order to make the Mending Rune of Perfect Order?
Also ties with the weird stuff with the two Ds and the golden order being the only institution that excepts their existence. Which I realize probably comes up in the video but I'm still watching it.
Goldmask does not like Marika, insofar his rune stops her from trying to push her dogma onto the Elden ring. With the new revelations of the dlc, the reason why he was so struck by the discovery is because Marika is a liar. What else was she hiding, or is she lying about everything? With Metyr thrown into the mix we know that the GW left the lands between long ago. Marika’s godhood was a lie and I believe that’s what goldmask discovered before he was killed.
@@yemeniwarcriminal8426 I believe you're correct. the symbol of power of the greater will, it's seat of influence is an empty husk with a broken god and effectively a guard dog in the elden beast, inside. the erdtree is clearly long dead, no sap falling from its branches, no blessings granted. I think whenever the greater will disappeared, Marika shattered the elden ring, or vice versa. either the abandonment of the greater will combined with the death of her favourite child drove Marika to extremes, or Marika shattering the elden ring pissed the greater will off enough that it left entirely.
When you talk to Gideon after burning the Erdtree he says: "The pursuit of knowledge is without end, for knowledge is never a thing complete. Perhaps the same could be said about guidance. Who's to say whether we'll remain who we are, once the fight is finished?" I think this fits nicely with the idea of Destined Death being the person you're destined to be
This is also a prevalent idea in buddhism, which souls games draw a ton of inspiration from. This video clocked it so well, I'm almost sure this is what Miyazaki was going for.
Godefroy obviously was the most powerful being in elden ring until that knight came along and defeated him. And that knight went on to become the soilder of God Rick
I came here to know more about why Godefroy even existed and to hear people rant about how his existence ruined everything it touched, I didn't expect a full-fledged theory about the concept of death
FromSoftware spent so much time, money, and technical prowess on simply the sheer number of bones needed to animate Godrick, fighting him once simply wasn't enough. So, while Godrick is the "runt of litter" and the least of the demi-gods, he is a technical marvel.
Not just that, he was also a really big part of the initial marketing. Like for a while he was the main boss that was shown off (which makes sense, he's the first run bearer most people will fight and you don't want to spoil the later ones) hell they even got the Man at Arms youtube channel to make a real, full sized version of Godrick's axe as a promo and there is no way that was cheap.
I always thought that godefroy was just Godrick’s father and son of Godwyn, which is why Godrick has the “the golden” title, which is shared by Godwyn, this also explains why Godrick’s demigod blood is so tainted because he’s so far from the original lineage, thats why he’s more like a distant relative to marika than a actual Demi god Furthermore, the walking Mausoleums have the corpses of dead Demi gods, also Vyke killed two Demi gods and got two great runes, showing there were more “distant cousin” like Demi gods that weren’t important, similar to Godrick
This could make sense, during the night of the black knives it is said that godwyn was the first demigod to die and since none of the other demigods are mention to ever having kids it would mean that the victims were members opf the golden lineage of godwyn that resided within leyndell, leaving only the most distant and unimportant relatives alive, after the power vacuum formed the new heir should have been godrick´s father godefroy who alfer seeing his more powerful relatives murder turned to grafting as a way to become stronger( him being of an older generation of the golden line would justify him having more HP than godrick) and then lead an army to reclaim leyndell during wich, he was bested and imprisoned, after his defeat godrick could have gotten a chair in the council just to get him to surrender, during the second attack on leyndell he scaped and turn to grafting just like his father did but wanted to get better pieces before triying to reclaim the thone once again.
Godefroy’s existence implies an event in which George R.R Martin cries as he writes 17 additional pages of lore because Miyazaki showed up that afternoon saying “fuck you im adding another Godrick to the game”
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 and I cry every time I think that I never got to see Miyazaki's face when Martin said "ok, but I'm taking the rest of her clothes off"
It's so funny that Godefroy is trivial to explain from a meta perspective (repeat boss, something that elden ring does constantly), but in-canon he's a fucking anomaly that upends reality as we know it.
@@SharkamfssWe can just arbitrarily place his capture wherever in the timeline makes him matter the least. Heck, maybe he didn't even have to directly reach grafting. Maybe Godrick just found his pink diary with the secrets of grafting
I think you've got a point about the game showing different "identify aspects". In our culture we often think of a person as being composed of 2 things: a body and a soul. We even have stories about the soul leaving the body and going on adventures and stuff. But this is a completely culture-bound understand of existence. It seems like in The Lands Between each person is composed of multiple different aspects, and these different aspects can separate from the host and do their own thing for a while. We see in-game that Dunge Eater's 'red summon' knows things that the real Dung Eater doesn't. Vyke seems to have split off the part of him that is consumed by the Flame of Frenzy. Mohg seems to have taken part of himself and is using it to guard that Church. Morgott has done the same thing; twice. This is also why Sellen can still speak to us after we take her "soul": we've taken the largest part of her, but a fragment of her remains trapped in the body. So "identity aspects" feels like a good description.
While I understand that the Three Sisters is a minor point in the video, I always kinda thought that the towers are the sisters and it’s just a poetic name of this particular architectural ensemble
It could also be that Ranni literally had 2 sisters. We do know that Marika had a *lot* of unnamed children, which were unnamed because she didn't deem them worthy of being called Demigods, and eventually had them killed, any records of their existence erased, and their corpses entombed inside the Walking Mausoleums.
In an interview with Miyazaki, someone asked a question about Godefroy. Miyazaki said quote, “I don’t want to talk about him.” And he became visibly upset at the mere mention. Odd…
Golden Godfrey is a projection being formed by margott. As you can see margotts golden weapons are the same color as goldfrey. He projects him in an attempt to hold the tarnished off
What if Godefroy is a mimic tear? Visually he looks a lot like how your own mimic tear replicates you , and it would explain why he’s an exact 1:1 clone of Godrick but with more health. It’s a loose connection, but Godrick is mentioned in the “mimic’s veil” item and that seems pretty deliberate. I haven’t done enough research, but it could be some experiment or test with the mimic tear that was imprisoned because they were unwilling or unable to kill it because of its ties to a demigod
It's actually quite simple. Godefroy is not related to any of the demigods. He was a General in Godrick's army that used a mimic vail to copy Godrick's look and fighting style in combat. This served two purposes. It kept Godrick away from the battlefield to protect him from harm, while the soldiers would see Godrick fighting along the side of them, increasing their loyalty and respect for their leader. When Godefroy was eventually defeated, the rus was over. Godefroy was locked away and Godrick's men were scattered in the wind. Godrick himself didn't have the bravery or manpower to travel into Altus Plateau to save him. There is no lore or evidence to back this up, it just makes more sense in my head.
Godrick the Grafted already represents a significant challenge to interpret. He is a distant descendant of the Golden Lineage. If he is a distant descendant, then where are all the intermediate descendants between him and Godwyn? These games are frequently pretty flexible with the way they play with the concept of time. Elden Ring broadly deals with the concept of “claim to power”, with a variety of characters having a variety of justifications for their particular “claim to power”. Miquella’s claim is his charisma, his leadership, his influence, his perceived virtue. Radahn’s is his might, his martial prowess. So on and so forth. Godrick’s is that he is related to people who have power. He serves the themes of the game by serving as an example of a “weak” claim to power. Heritage alone is not enough; someone who seeks to claim power must already have power in some form themselves. And that’s why he resorts to grafting. This is a necessary point for the game to make in order to establish its basic premise, but, in a more “traditional” form of storytelling, would also necessitate the manufacture of an entire line of descendants leading from Godwyn to Godrick in order for it to “make sense” in the minds of the audience. To this end, Godefroy doesn’t really contradict existing lore any more than Godrick does; he’s just an intermediate ancestor between Godrick and Godwyn (assuming Godwyn IS Godrick’s closest relative) I’m genuinely kind of surprised that I see people really confused by Godefroy and not by Godrick. The existence of Godrick is just as confusing as Godefroy if you think about it.
My two cents is that Elden ring is an attempt to replicate a quality of real world mythology that rarely if ever gets adapted, that being the plasticity of the identity of gods. In the real world myths are made up so the names and characteristics of gods are determined by whoever is telling the story at the time. If two versions of a myth exist than a modern author adapting typically picks one or the other or tries to merge them into one story. I think Elden ring is an attempt at a story where two mutually exclusive versions of characters and events are somehow paradoxically true. I’m not sure if any of this made sense. I might elaborate if someone leaves a comment asking me to.
I understand exactly what you mean, and I’ve said something similar at times. The best genre to stick Elden Ring isn’t exactly fantasy or fairy tale- it’s more like a religious text, with all the layers of code and parable and multiple narrators and evolution across time.
@@CrunchyVideos imo all fromsoft soulslikes have this quality of religious/mythical story (the least of it I see is in Bloodborne, which evokes rather madman's rambling, which still in some crazy way is appropriate).
Godrick is never said to be the child of Marika, he’s only ever mentioned to be a descendant of the Golden Lineage. Enia even refers to him as having a “distant relation” and his “divine blood sorely diluted”
This is the lie that Shabriri spread across the land. That Godefroy is real and matters. Everyone believed in it so hard that it manifested into a phantom of faux reality. Something that doesn't exist... existing, truly a paradox, one might said even say Chaotic...
One of the most sophisticated lore videos I’ve seen. I love how you use Godefroy as an inroad into so many different lines of inquiry until the scope of your question matches that of the game as a whole.
That ending is mindblowing by the way! It would match the idea of a natural cycle being disrupted out of a fear of death which in turn curses life which is basically Dark Souls.
The idea of death being "the person you're destined to become" seems to fit nicely with the moment from the recent story trailer for the DLC where the narrator states that Miquella abandoned everything... even his *fate*, with an image of St. Trina falling/being stripped away or discarded(?)
Gonna be real, fully outside of shitposting, in lore there were a lot more demigods than just the ones with great runes. The walking mausoleums are actually demigods who lost their souls in one way or another, and search for the souls of great foes to replace them
If you think about it, it does make sense for the demi humans to copy things from humanoid civilisations. Like the star katana, staffs and spells. They can talk, as an NPC demo human proves, and have culture among themselves
So from what I've come to understand the evergaols are largely meant to be inescapable (except for Blaidd for unkown reasons) so maybe thats why the sky inside them is pitch black. The stars determine fate, and once you are in the evergaol you no longer have a fate, you're just stuck there, forever.
Godfrey was born as Hoarah Loux. He was a famous warlord of time past and when he became Marikas consort, he donned a new, more benevolent outwards appearance to function more in line with his new role as Elden Lord. He wears Serosh on his back to keep himself in line. Serosh is constantly biting Godfrey, quelling any of his bloodlust from coming back. When you best him, he kills Serosh and lets his old self loose.
@@Zyckro I think the obvious answer to that dilemma is that Serosh's role within the life of Godfrey changed. He was probably his war companion and then repurposed once Godfrey became Elden Lord.
@@jarlsterra ah ok. do we know if Serosh was given to Godfrey or he found him? We know he took him up as a beast regent, but I don’t remember if that was because Marika gave the beast to him or he willingly took him in.
Congratulations, the DLC pretty much proved your general idea to be correct. It would seem that the cause of the division we see in Elden Ring is most likely the result of the formation of the Golden Order based on only the fragmented remains of the Greater Will’s original vision, rather than the original order that was followed by the Ancient Dragons and Metyr prior to her fall to madness
My understanding is that grafting is a HUGE No-No, so maybe that's why Godefroy was captured? Godrick didn't start his grafting until after he got his ass beat by Malenia, so that'd explain why the Throne and the great rune went to godrick? Maybe Godefroy was grafting himself even before the Shattering? Or right at the start?
What a cool character, i feel like it would be great to see one Starscourge Randy, Melanie blade of Mack, Mug the lord of blood, Marge the Omen King, and Remy Queen Of The Moon !
"does that mean that shards of the ring could be extracted before the ring was shattered?" - yes. Marika extracted the rune of death from the ring before it was shattered.
It's also crucial to the plot. The Night of the Black Knives could only happen because of that, and only after it, "Marika was driven to the brink, and the Elden Ring was shattered".
I love how most of this video is a pretty decent dive into topics like the many divided identities in Elden Ring, Destined Death etc. but barely talks about Godefroy
Imagine if the evergaols were designed like the rift shield-boosting focus so that those trapped inside could never sleep or go mad. They are doomed to eternally live out every minute of their confinement completely sane and lucid- WAIT!!!! THAT'S WHY VYKE NO LONGER HAS MADNESS! Getting trapped in the evergaol cured him of madness! But when he invades outside, he has the frenzied flame again! The gaol even has the blue-purple tint of the clarifying horn charm, which boosts resistance to sleep and madness. That and the rift shield-which also boosts focus-bares a symbol that's identical to the blue rift inside the evergaols. And it's the prisoner class that starts with that shield. Oh my God... it all makes sense now.
Hoarah Loux is Godfrey's real name. Marika basically tamed him into becoming Godfrey, and once you damage him enough he decides he needs to go all out. He says he's given you courtesy enough because he's done playing with a handicap.
Renna could also possibly be Ranni's other half(that she probably lost in the process of killing her body). To my understanding, empyreans are all made up of two people. Marika and Radagon, Miquella and St. Trina, it's kept coming up time and time again. You could argue that the Goddess of Rot is the other half to Melania, but I'd definitely disagree there.
@@Big-Groß Rellana is very clearly Rennala’s twin sister according to item descriptions. She abandoned Carian royalty to marry Messmer. She is her own person and has no connection to Ranni outside of being her aunt.
@@W_W-f8y in the video crunchy proposes it's in the past in the sense that it's a remembrance hewn into the erdtree. So it burning when you burn the erdtree is actually more evidence to that idea.
i had always assumed that godefroy exists to further showcase how the practice of grafting has been going on for generations passed down the golden lineage and that its always been reviled (which is why godefroy is in prison). they decided to show a member of the golden lineage imprisoned for this practice, reused godricks model for convenience, and didnt think much of it after that
Wait…. Is radagons hair red and by extension marika hair gold, because it’s where the other personality is sealed? This would make sense as it would mean that radagon of the golden order is in fact associated with the golden hair meaning that the red haired curse of radagon is marikas influence
The division of the Hand into fingers as a mistake in regards to personality reminds me of a Classic Star Trek Episode. Kirk:2=? Through a Transporter accident, Captain Kirk gets split. One part being all of his „good“ attributes, one has all of his „bad“. Even though only one part is actively doing harm, the „good“ part isn’t actually functional either. While EvilKirk is running around the ship, trying to force himself onto subordinates & scheming to get control over the ship, GoodKirk is stagnant, indecisive, meek & has to rely on Spock for making decisions. If Spock would not be there to push him, he would just let EvilKirk destroy him. Only through accepting those aspects of him, that they are part of what drives him & makes him a good captain, he is able to reunite. It’s similar to the fingers. Two-Fingers-unmoving, in an „alive“ state yet rotting. Needing to convene forever with the greater will, which would take so much time, anyone who’d factor into its equation might just give up & leave, the situation changing drastically. It’s to slow. The land under their guidance in a perpetuate state of stagnant life. It seems to need Marika & an Eldenlord bc it itself can’t make day to day decisions, like Spock was to GoodKirk, & big ones need great effort. Frenzied Flame/3-Fingers actually do stuff, they have a goal (utter destruction) & are quick to react in getting into contact with tarnished that show promise in becoming eldenlords, so they can manipulate them into getting touched by the 3 fingers instead of burning the maiden. Also they are the part with the thumb, the most useful digit. They can actually grasp stuff. Similar to Kirk, reuniting the fingers would maybe fix a lot of the extremes & weirdnesses, bc there would be a balance of Life & Death, beauty & ugliness in the world & things could actually move forward instead of being stagnant or destroyed.
Only problem would be that the two fingers and three fingers don't combine to make a full hand. The 2 are the middle and ring fingers, and the 3 are the index finger, middle finger and thumb.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 I don't think the hands themselves have been split but the outer god behind them. The Hands are representative envoys sent by the Greater Will/Frenzied Flame, so they where never created with the rest of the hand. Also it's kinda hard to actually make out which fingers are supposed to be which, because anatomically all fingers look the same, except the thumb. I always saw the 2 fingers looking more like a the pointer(which would be fitting for the righteous guiding force)& the middle with the 3 fingers looking like ring, little & thumb (esp little being a finger that is often seen as superfluous but with pointer & middle out of the equation, it works just as well with thumb as them did) but that might just be bc of the fatless burned look that makes it look thinner.
Godefroy was just made so Godrick doesnt get any credit for the idea of grafting, its the final kick of his corpse, since Gostoc couldnt do enough damage.
Maybe Godefroy is Godrick's fate. Maybe the removal of the rune of death separated the innate fates of people into separate entities instead of deleting / suppressing them (as was probably intended). If the fate of the average scrub is to just die and move onto the spirit world then this could explain why spirits are trapped under the Golden Order because their fate has effectively already been split off from them before they died (pretty much what your diagram shows, but not a mirror image but a continuation of that person in another plane). So then the question is what happens if someone is not fated to die like a scrub but instead has some level of immortality or is fated to ascend to something greater. Could their fate become a real, living thing that can coexist with them? We are told that the stars can manipulate fate so maybe this lead to the fate version of people being directly manipulated and could explain some of Radagon and Radahn's actions. In fact with the right knowledge could people start manipulating their own fates by influencing the movement of the stars? Could help explain why Ranni had to die in some obscure ritual to regain her fate (she can wield the fingerslayer blade so she must have a fate) - could she have forced herself into the next plane with things in place to get herself back? Or could it be that it's Ranni's fate version that we actually interact with in game all along? Feel like I'm starting to lose it now too but I can't shake that there is an explicit set of rules in place that would make everything click.
Idk why but I love Godefroy, its like FromSoft decided to add a gimpy little brother of Godrick or sumn. I remember finding him in the Evergaol and laughing when I realized I misread his name, originally I read it as Godfrey and was still having trouble remembering the difference between Godfrey, Godrick, and Godwyn. He was a bit of humor in my playthrough I really appreciated
A point for the time travel theory: the maelstrom in the middle of Farum Azula is much smaller, arguably too small to properly house Placidusaxx and the piece of the arena that we lie on to travel back in time used to be intact and inside the maelstrom, not outside it. The maelstrom is shrinking and Farum is crumbling but how could it be crumbling if its frozen in time? Well it's crumbling because Placy is dead in our time and he's dead in our time because we killed him in the past by travelling to that past from the present. We, the Chosen Tarnished, could be the reason why Farum Azula is crumbling. Also, the more and more I think about this, the more it seems like ER is a sci-fi story disguised as fantasy. G.R.R.M. strikes again. Look up quantum properties of light.
I'm not very familiar with the works of GRRM, what books of his are other examples of scifi masquerading as fantasy, because I love that shit and would want to give that book/books a read.
A LOT of the lore in ER is related to botany. Godrick (and Godefroy) are grafted which is how you bare a different fruit than the base tree would. The daughters of Malenia are seeds from a self fertilized flower. Miquella, Malenia and possibly Mesmer are self fertilized by two parts of one whole, some trees will produce both but seperate male and female flowers on one tree like Red maple, sugar maple, black ash, locust, mulberry, tupelo and sumac. However, sometimes people will plant both a male and female tree right next to each other so that it forms a semblance of a single tree, Marika and Radagon could have started separately and quite literally grew into one being or could be 2 pieces of one whole. For Godrick and Godefroy I think Grafting is sort of a throw back Ideology within Elden Ring, sort of a mimicry of the primordial tree and the crucible. Trying to recreate the fruit of the crucible but with roots in the Golden Order. Godefroy would have become grafted even before Godwyns death, its not clear how long Godwyn was around after the dragon war, but before his half death, it could have been a long time. One of Godwyn's decedents seeing the glory of his progenitor and recognizing his own meager form decides the mimic the outcome of crucible and find strength in grafting, an obvious heresy to the Golden Order. Being that he was imprisoned right after the dragon war, it's most likely that Godwyn, who made peace with the dragons, was still very much whole and the ring unshattered when he was locked up. Godrick whether a descendent, sibling, or a piece of Godefroy likely became grafted MUCH later possibly even after the shattering as a way to seek strength to keep the rune that came to him. A technique already proven to work by Godefroy. Their Identical appearance I would attribute to the time and money saving Ctrl+C Ctrl+V technique, rather than a hint that they are the same or history repeating itself.
I'm baffled no one ever seems to think that Godefroy might be Godrick's twin. They're identical, and the game is chock full of twins. Regarding the Great Rune, I think it's fair to assume that Godrick's Rune should have been Godwyn's, since it's the Anchor Rune, and that Godrick only got it due to his ancestor's death. Thus, Godefroy doesn't have a Rune because no Rune was available: only Marika's direct offspring got one.
Personally I think the anchor rune isn’t actually that important, and that Godrick has it because it’s similar to grafting in the way that other rings of the Elden ring can be grafted to it.
@@christopherlyndsay8611 That's an excellent idea! I think it adds to the Rune's significance, though, not that it's mutually exclusive with what I said. After all, Godwyn seems to be so widely beloved it's ridiculous, he could easily have been the glue that held the Lands Between together, given the chance. He's also sneakily associated with the Crucible, something only someone extremely high in everyone's favour could manage to do unpunished. And lastly, Godefroy's existence proves that grafting was known to the Golden Lineage prior to Godrick.
I've heard the twin potential mentioned multiple times by content creators, even in this video, but whereas every other twin pair seems different in some way from each other, Godefroy and Godrick are identical in every way. It would be a good answer if we had any other information to go off of instead of just assuming that might be the case.
@@Awoken0 Not all twins are different, the D brothers are identical in every way. And yes, it would be nice to have more to go off on, but it is what it is. I still think the best explanation is that Godefroy was Godrick's younger twin and that the Golden Lineage got a seat on the Sovereign Alliance as a whole, just to honour Godwyn's legacy and its political weight. Since there weren't direct offspring of Marika among their ranks, they elected the eldest twin, Godrick, to take a Rune that was destined for Godwyn, not on the basis of strength, but of birth. This logic would explain several unclear points regarding Godefroy and his lack of a Great Rune.
I wonder if at fromsoft they were wondering what to put in this ever jail and some guy just said put godrick but give him a stupid name and everybody was like yeah that’s pretty funny.
I would argue that the metaphysical implications of Rennala and Radigon is just as important as the founding of the Golden Order itself. Prior to the marriage, the wars between the Carians and the Leyndell was not simply between two rival families, but also a metaphysical battle between the Greater Will and the Primordial Current. The marriage of the Carian line into the Golden Order essentially brought magic and sorcery as a concept into what is acceptable as Order, and many of the Light Incantations of Radigon are only able to exist because of the union of Gold and Magic.
I'm not sure why this confuses so many people Godefroy was clearly a rogue member of the Golden Lineage that was active around the time period following The Dragon War but before The Night of Black Knives. The Leyndell Knights would have actually been organized and capable of enforcing doctrine at the time. They wouldn't be much of an actual army otherwise. Considering what we learned about the Shamans in the DLC Grafting was probably only possible for members of the divine line of the Golden Lineage because they shared blood with Marika. Marika also probably found the concept abhorrent and when she found out Godefroy was experimenting in ways just as horrifying as the torture The Hornsent inflicted on The Shamans. She demanded his capture and imprisonment. He was a demi-god, but never carried a Great Rune because Marika hadn't shattered The Elden Ring yet. She also couldnt kill him because he was a demi-god and Destined Death had been sealed. He'd just come back, which might explain why Godrick looks identical to him. Godrick might be his reincarnation. Why are their axes the same? Who said Godrick had them made? When he fled the capital he took a bunch of relics with him. Not a stretch to assume the axes were a few of them. I know this was made well before the DLC dropped, I just think the info found there reinforces my point. Its not explicitly necessary. Though I suppose none of it is, because its all supposition at best.
The actual lore is that Godrick felt embarassed about losing to you even after grafting a dragon, so he takes off the dragon, hides in the gaol, and pretends to be his long lost cousin
@@TheDraconicBard He's just a head. Gostoc was stomping on him. It's more likely that Godefroy was Godrick's shadow, and was sealed away to keep him from posing a threat to the capital.
Forget which item elaborates on this, but the reason Godfrey attached Serosh (his beast regent) to his back was to quell his urge to just murder everyone which was unfitting for a lord. Before he was Godfrey, he was just some random wildman named Horah Loux, so when he rips Serosh off of him, he's becoming one with his bestial nature again.
Astel could be explained. Either the adult form of falling star beasts are just called Astel, or all Astels share the same consciousness. Not dissimilar to D's situation.
A small misconception about the morgott thrones, the thrones being displayed are only the thrones of traitors towards the golden order, more specifically people who no longer follow the golden order. Mohg and Godwyns thrones are not shown due to the fact that Godwyn died as a respected and true ally to the golden order and that mohg by being treated as an omen and not royalty never had anything owed to the golden order, including his loyalty. What must've occurred is that Godefroy while being imprisoned either was too small a piece to be considered a traitor (either from his strength or great rune capacity) or simply was not a traitor to the golden order.
People are really coming at you with the Doyleist explanations when you delivered a very interesting Watsonian screed. Honestly prefer the thematic discussion far above the nitty gritty details of the lore because they turn a relatively mundane and wonky element like Godefroy into, well, this vide.
"Well, they may be a lot of repeated boss fights, but at least it does make sense with the lore as we might expect multiple of them or they are an illusion, bec-" Godefroy from fucking nowhere "Check this out"
I like to think that Godefroy is like Margit - just an image that was created to perform some task. So maybe it's possible that Godrick's image was captured, stored away in an Evergaol, and forgotten about.
What if godefroy is just a silly guy
>buy dlc
>find evergaol
>get in
>"Esmer the piercer"
Can’t wait for “The prancing tiger” catacombs boss fight !
First boss I beat in the main game!
@Mojj2099 Bro ur not even wrong lmao
but it actually has different attacks unlike godefroy the ass
@@Mojj2099at least that one is meant to be a type of thing and not an individual
My favorite mini boss was Bail the sorrow
You've done irreparable damage to what cohesion existed for my understanding of the lore. Delete Godefroy
i really hope the dlc just randomly has a green haired clone of malenia without her rot goddess form called some shit like "Molly, blade of Mike"
Miquella being referred to as Mike is something that I want to happen more often lol
Malaria, Blade of Michelob Ultra
@@neunleben1358 "Miquella, the Mohg-lested" was datamined from the last update I'm afraid.
Starscourge Randy
@@neunleben1358mickey
Godefroy is obv Godrick’s mimic tear
One thing that always stood out to me is how the Marika/Radagon revelation impacts the Goldmask quest. When we encounter Goldmask at Leyndell he has run into a block on his mission to 'fix' the flaws of the Golden Order, whatever that entails, as according to Corhyn he has become obsessed with Radagon and in order to continue on his quest we must inform him that Marika and Radagon are the same being.
What I took this to mean is that the nature of Marika and Radagon's existence, and by extension the other examples of dual/multi identities seen throughout the game, are somehow central to the nature of the Golden Order itself. Why else would that in particular be the one thing that Goldmask needs in order to make the Mending Rune of Perfect Order?
Also ties with the weird stuff with the two Ds and the golden order being the only institution that excepts their existence. Which I realize probably comes up in the video but I'm still watching it.
There are also two dual laws that are central to fundamentalism, that being causality and regression
Goldmask does not like Marika, insofar his rune stops her from trying to push her dogma onto the Elden ring. With the new revelations of the dlc, the reason why he was so struck by the discovery is because Marika is a liar. What else was she hiding, or is she lying about everything? With Metyr thrown into the mix we know that the GW left the lands between long ago. Marika’s godhood was a lie and I believe that’s what goldmask discovered before he was killed.
@@yemeniwarcriminal8426 I believe you're correct. the symbol of power of the greater will, it's seat of influence is an empty husk with a broken god and effectively a guard dog in the elden beast, inside. the erdtree is clearly long dead, no sap falling from its branches, no blessings granted. I think whenever the greater will disappeared, Marika shattered the elden ring, or vice versa. either the abandonment of the greater will combined with the death of her favourite child drove Marika to extremes, or Marika shattering the elden ring pissed the greater will off enough that it left entirely.
I’m scared to watch, I fear I may become Godefroy-pilled
When you talk to Gideon after burning the Erdtree he says:
"The pursuit of knowledge is without end, for knowledge is never a thing complete. Perhaps the same could be said about guidance. Who's to say whether we'll remain who we are, once the fight is finished?"
I think this fits nicely with the idea of Destined Death being the person you're destined to be
This is also a prevalent idea in buddhism, which souls games draw a ton of inspiration from. This video clocked it so well, I'm almost sure this is what Miyazaki was going for.
Godefroy obviously was the most powerful being in elden ring until that knight came along and defeated him. And that knight went on to become the soilder of God Rick
Rick wouldn't have left anything behind to be put in the Evergoal, the knight was probably trained by him though
I think godefroy was godricks twin brother but he was too freaky and got banished to an everjail
And the thing about Elden ring twins being weird and sharing a soul
lmao too freaky omfg 😂
He’s couldn’t stop grafting toes to his mouth
Do yall think he grafted dingalings
@@jooot_6850 Big ones
Can’t wait to get to the DLC and fight Richard, Lord of Blasphemy.
Starscourge Randy, Melanie blade of Mack, Mug the lord of blood, Marge the Omen King, Remy Queen Of The Moon, and
@@sethleoric2598 you wouldn't believe it but Rellana does exist
@@AkiraSpikes lmao
The theme music is never going let you down, never gonna let you go...
Malakai the Big Black Dog.
I came here to know more about why Godefroy even existed and to hear people rant about how his existence ruined everything it touched, I didn't expect a full-fledged theory about the concept of death
Godefroy is the key to everything in Elden Ring. All secrets and lore run through him. With Godefroy all things are possible!
We ask "Why is Godefroy?" and the abyss stares back at us, unblinking.
@@Reemus4 Everyone always asks "Why is Godefroy?", but no one ever stops to ask "How is Godefroy?" 😢
Radagon is Marika
Miquella is St. Trina
Godfrey is Hoarah Loux
And Elden Ring is Dark Souls.
@@senseikensei7470 Genious Kojimbo, its that simple
@@Argemia Hidetakeo Kojizaki
blue smelter godrick
Holy shit. Imagine how insane the run to the boss will be. It's over
Stray Blue Smelter Godefroy, the First Champion Vicar, Way of Tomoe.
@@thegodofsoapkekcario1970 It is as if many concepts were grafted together, lovely.
@@Sercroc this killed me
at least the smelter demon seemed to be some kind of fire golem, not an actual guy
We all know the dlc is really going to be about Fodgroy the Grafted.
Nah, Gordrick, Son of Gord
FromSoftware spent so much time, money, and technical prowess on simply the sheer number of bones needed to animate Godrick, fighting him once simply wasn't enough. So, while Godrick is the "runt of litter" and the least of the demi-gods, he is a technical marvel.
Not just that, he was also a really big part of the initial marketing. Like for a while he was the main boss that was shown off (which makes sense, he's the first run bearer most people will fight and you don't want to spoil the later ones) hell they even got the Man at Arms youtube channel to make a real, full sized version of Godrick's axe as a promo and there is no way that was cheap.
I love that you basically used Godefroy as a tool to express your complex idea on what destined death could actually signify.
Godefroy really IS the key to all of this
I was hypnotized by the missed parries against radagon and didn’t listen to anything, 10/10 video
My plan worked
It means 0/10
I always thought that godefroy was just Godrick’s father and son of Godwyn, which is why Godrick has the “the golden” title, which is shared by Godwyn, this also explains why Godrick’s demigod blood is so tainted because he’s so far from the original lineage, thats why he’s more like a distant relative to marika than a actual Demi god
Furthermore, the walking Mausoleums have the corpses of dead Demi gods, also Vyke killed two Demi gods and got two great runes, showing there were more “distant cousin” like Demi gods that weren’t important, similar to Godrick
This could make sense, during the night of the black knives it is said that godwyn was the first demigod to die and since none of the other demigods are mention to ever having kids it would mean that the victims were members opf the golden lineage of godwyn that resided within leyndell, leaving only the most distant and unimportant relatives alive, after the power vacuum formed the new heir should have been godrick´s father godefroy who alfer seeing his more powerful relatives murder turned to grafting as a way to become stronger( him being of an older generation of the golden line would justify him having more HP than godrick) and then lead an army to reclaim leyndell during wich, he was bested and imprisoned, after his defeat godrick could have gotten a chair in the council just to get him to surrender, during the second attack on leyndell he scaped and turn to grafting just like his father did but wanted to get better pieces before triying to reclaim the thone once again.
If you can make a 45 minute lore video for someone with 0 lore. I’m all in
Holy shit he cookin
The whole “light is time” thing is a concept in real world physics btw, it’s basically one way of looking at relativity
Walking the path Vaati dared not tread.
Godefroy’s existence implies an event in which George R.R Martin cries as he writes 17 additional pages of lore because Miyazaki showed up that afternoon saying “fuck you im adding another Godrick to the game”
I cry every time I think that I never got to see Martin's face after Miyazaki said "I like this Malenia character. But I'm taking her shoes off"
My theory is he is a copy of godrick that was made when he escaped the battle of lyndell (let me cook)
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 and I cry every time I think that I never got to see Miyazaki's face when Martin said "ok, but I'm taking the rest of her clothes off"
DLC will introduce Godefraud The Limbless.
It's so funny that Godefroy is trivial to explain from a meta perspective (repeat boss, something that elden ring does constantly), but in-canon he's a fucking anomaly that upends reality as we know it.
Is he not just a descendant of Godfrey that precedes Godrick and taught Godrick how to Graft?
@@giladmachluf3663 Things get confusing when you consider how irrelevant he is in the main game compared to Godrick the Golden.
@@SharkamfssWe can just arbitrarily place his capture wherever in the timeline makes him matter the least.
Heck, maybe he didn't even have to directly reach grafting. Maybe Godrick just found his pink diary with the secrets of grafting
Godefroy doesn’t care for the petty laws of mortal loremasters, he exists beyond space and time, a being rivaled only in power by Rick, Soldier of God
I think you've got a point about the game showing different "identify aspects". In our culture we often think of a person as being composed of 2 things: a body and a soul. We even have stories about the soul leaving the body and going on adventures and stuff. But this is a completely culture-bound understand of existence. It seems like in The Lands Between each person is composed of multiple different aspects, and these different aspects can separate from the host and do their own thing for a while. We see in-game that Dunge Eater's 'red summon' knows things that the real Dung Eater doesn't. Vyke seems to have split off the part of him that is consumed by the Flame of Frenzy. Mohg seems to have taken part of himself and is using it to guard that Church. Morgott has done the same thing; twice. This is also why Sellen can still speak to us after we take her "soul": we've taken the largest part of her, but a fragment of her remains trapped in the body. So "identity aspects" feels like a good description.
Good points. Reminds me of how Stannis vaguely experiences in his nightmares the actions of the shadow assassin in ASOIAF.
While I understand that the Three Sisters is a minor point in the video, I always kinda thought that the towers are the sisters and it’s just a poetic name of this particular architectural ensemble
That's exactly what I thought.
It could also be that Ranni literally had 2 sisters.
We do know that Marika had a *lot* of unnamed children, which were unnamed because she didn't deem them worthy of being called Demigods, and eventually had them killed, any records of their existence erased, and their corpses entombed inside the Walking Mausoleums.
In an interview with Miyazaki, someone asked a question about Godefroy. Miyazaki said quote, “I don’t want to talk about him.” And he became visibly upset at the mere mention. Odd…
scripulous fingore moment
Do you have a source for this?
@@willchase5692 my buddy told me
It's Dead Bart all over again
they have a secret romance
I hope there's gonna be an "Elder Beast" gaol which contains a phantom Elden Beast in the DLC
Golden Godfrey is a projection being formed by margott. As you can see margotts golden weapons are the same color as goldfrey. He projects him in an attempt to hold the tarnished off
And why hes in a seal anyway
Imo godefroy is in fact just a mimic godrick made because he was too scared to actually go attack the capital
That… makes the most sense, actually.
What if Godefroy is a mimic tear? Visually he looks a lot like how your own mimic tear replicates you , and it would explain why he’s an exact 1:1 clone of Godrick but with more health. It’s a loose connection, but Godrick is mentioned in the “mimic’s veil” item and that seems pretty deliberate. I haven’t done enough research, but it could be some experiment or test with the mimic tear that was imprisoned because they were unwilling or unable to kill it because of its ties to a demigod
I like this theory.
It's actually quite simple. Godefroy is not related to any of the demigods. He was a General in Godrick's army that used a mimic vail to copy Godrick's look and fighting style in combat.
This served two purposes. It kept Godrick away from the battlefield to protect him from harm, while the soldiers would see Godrick fighting along the side of them, increasing their loyalty and respect for their leader.
When Godefroy was eventually defeated, the rus was over. Godefroy was locked away and Godrick's men were scattered in the wind. Godrick himself didn't have the bravery or manpower to travel into Altus Plateau to save him.
There is no lore or evidence to back this up, it just makes more sense in my head.
Godrick the Grafted already represents a significant challenge to interpret.
He is a distant descendant of the Golden Lineage.
If he is a distant descendant, then where are all the intermediate descendants between him and Godwyn?
These games are frequently pretty flexible with the way they play with the concept of time.
Elden Ring broadly deals with the concept of “claim to power”, with a variety of characters having a variety of justifications for their particular “claim to power”.
Miquella’s claim is his charisma, his leadership, his influence, his perceived virtue.
Radahn’s is his might, his martial prowess.
So on and so forth.
Godrick’s is that he is related to people who have power.
He serves the themes of the game by serving as an example of a “weak” claim to power. Heritage alone is not enough; someone who seeks to claim power must already have power in some form themselves. And that’s why he resorts to grafting.
This is a necessary point for the game to make in order to establish its basic premise, but, in a more “traditional” form of storytelling, would also necessitate the manufacture of an entire line of descendants leading from Godwyn to Godrick in order for it to “make sense” in the minds of the audience.
To this end, Godefroy doesn’t really contradict existing lore any more than Godrick does; he’s just an intermediate ancestor between Godrick and Godwyn (assuming Godwyn IS Godrick’s closest relative)
I’m genuinely kind of surprised that I see people really confused by Godefroy and not by Godrick. The existence of Godrick is just as confusing as Godefroy if you think about it.
My two cents is that Elden ring is an attempt to replicate a quality of real world mythology that rarely if ever gets adapted, that being the plasticity of the identity of gods.
In the real world myths are made up so the names and characteristics of gods are determined by whoever is telling the story at the time.
If two versions of a myth exist than a modern author adapting typically picks one or the other or tries to merge them into one story. I think Elden ring is an attempt at a story where two mutually exclusive versions of characters and events are somehow paradoxically true.
I’m not sure if any of this made sense. I might elaborate if someone leaves a comment asking me to.
I understand exactly what you mean, and I’ve said something similar at times. The best genre to stick Elden Ring isn’t exactly fantasy or fairy tale- it’s more like a religious text, with all the layers of code and parable and multiple narrators and evolution across time.
@@CrunchyVideos imo all fromsoft soulslikes have this quality of religious/mythical story (the least of it I see is in Bloodborne, which evokes rather madman's rambling, which still in some crazy way is appropriate).
Godrick is never said to be the child of Marika, he’s only ever mentioned to be a descendant of the Golden Lineage. Enia even refers to him as having a “distant relation” and his “divine blood sorely diluted”
@@n3ptune130 I mean he actually has a throne in Lendyell, so he must've been at least somewhat important to the Golden Lineage.
@@tysimpso1448 well with Godwyn dead, he’s all that remains of the Golden Lineage
@@tysimpso1448 and seeing that Godwyn gets no throne of his own, it was probably originally his
@@n3ptune130 you’re forgetting nepheli loux
@@Tearoppnepheli isn’t one of Marika’s children, not making her a true part of the golden lineage
Vaati been real quiet since this dropped...
"Hey Godrick do you have the time?"
"IM NOT GODRICK, IM MY ORIGINAL CHARACTER, GODEFROY!"
This is the lie that Shabriri spread across the land. That Godefroy is real and matters. Everyone believed in it so hard that it manifested into a phantom of faux reality. Something that doesn't exist... existing, truly a paradox, one might said even say Chaotic...
One of the most sophisticated lore videos I’ve seen. I love how you use Godefroy as an inroad into so many different lines of inquiry until the scope of your question matches that of the game as a whole.
Its what the existence of Godefroy *should* prompt, not just a total piss-baby shut down tantrum (this is a Ratatoskr call-out post)
That ending is mindblowing by the way! It would match the idea of a natural cycle being disrupted out of a fear of death which in turn curses life which is basically Dark Souls.
The idea of death being "the person you're destined to become" seems to fit nicely with the moment from the recent story trailer for the DLC where the narrator states that Miquella abandoned everything... even his *fate*, with an image of St. Trina falling/being stripped away or discarded(?)
Gonna be real, fully outside of shitposting, in lore there were a lot more demigods than just the ones with great runes. The walking mausoleums are actually demigods who lost their souls in one way or another, and search for the souls of great foes to replace them
There’s a Demi human queen in the dlc called Demi human queen Marigga lol I think these are just meme bosses by the developers
@@flipyapd2321 ma what now?
If you think about it, it does make sense for the demi humans to copy things from humanoid civilisations. Like the star katana, staffs and spells. They can talk, as an NPC demo human proves, and have culture among themselves
So from what I've come to understand the evergaols are largely meant to be inescapable (except for Blaidd for unkown reasons) so maybe thats why the sky inside them is pitch black. The stars determine fate, and once you are in the evergaol you no longer have a fate, you're just stuck there, forever.
Godefroy sisters, we literally cant stop winning.
So true
Third this
Slayy 💅💅💅💅💅 (I have several grafted hands)
Godfrey was born as Hoarah Loux. He was a famous warlord of time past and when he became Marikas consort, he donned a new, more benevolent outwards appearance to function more in line with his new role as Elden Lord. He wears Serosh on his back to keep himself in line. Serosh is constantly biting Godfrey, quelling any of his bloodlust from coming back. When you best him, he kills Serosh and lets his old self loose.
Do you know how he was shown in the intro cinematic skewered with Serosh?
If Serosh was supposed to be there to quell his bloodlust or whatever.
@@Zyckro I think the obvious answer to that dilemma is that Serosh's role within the life of Godfrey changed. He was probably his war companion and then repurposed once Godfrey became Elden Lord.
@@jarlsterra ah ok. do we know if Serosh was given to Godfrey or he found him? We know he took him up as a beast regent, but I don’t remember if that was because Marika gave the beast to him or he willingly took him in.
By the title? Has to be a shitpost.
By video quality? Vaati’s second channel
Godefroy would have beaten Malenia if he were at Stormveil instead of Godrick.
Horrible thumbnail, love it
Lore hunters hate him!!
@@humblegamer7876 The only thing missing is: Stepbro, I'm stuck in an evergaol
He definitely made Godefroy look like a coomer its gold
Me too. It got me.
I haven't watched tje video yet but i am absolutely 100% certain that there is NOT 40 minutes of lore on fucking godefroy in the game
Congratulations, the DLC pretty much proved your general idea to be correct. It would seem that the cause of the division we see in Elden Ring is most likely the result of the formation of the Golden Order based on only the fragmented remains of the Greater Will’s original vision, rather than the original order that was followed by the Ancient Dragons and Metyr prior to her fall to madness
My understanding is that grafting is a HUGE No-No, so maybe that's why Godefroy was captured? Godrick didn't start his grafting until after he got his ass beat by Malenia, so that'd explain why the Throne and the great rune went to godrick? Maybe Godefroy was grafting himself even before the Shattering? Or right at the start?
The game alludes to there being many more demigods. The mausoleum house some of their corpses. The Godskin apostles wear the skin of demigods aswell.
What a cool character, i feel like it would be great to see one Starscourge Randy, Melanie blade of Mack, Mug the lord of blood, Marge the Omen King, and Remy Queen Of The Moon !
"does that mean that shards of the ring could be extracted before the ring was shattered?" - yes. Marika extracted the rune of death from the ring before it was shattered.
Spot on
It's also crucial to the plot. The Night of the Black Knives could only happen because of that, and only after it, "Marika was driven to the brink, and the Elden Ring was shattered".
I love how most of this video is a pretty decent dive into topics like the many divided identities in Elden Ring, Destined Death etc. but barely talks about Godefroy
Imagine if the evergaols were designed like the rift shield-boosting focus so that those trapped inside could never sleep or go mad. They are doomed to eternally live out every minute of their confinement completely sane and lucid-
WAIT!!!!
THAT'S WHY VYKE NO LONGER HAS MADNESS!
Getting trapped in the evergaol cured him of madness! But when he invades outside, he has the frenzied flame again!
The gaol even has the blue-purple tint of the clarifying horn charm, which boosts resistance to sleep and madness. That and the rift shield-which also boosts focus-bares a symbol that's identical to the blue rift inside the evergaols. And it's the prisoner class that starts with that shield.
Oh my God... it all makes sense now.
Hoarah Loux is Godfrey's real name. Marika basically tamed him into becoming Godfrey, and once you damage him enough he decides he needs to go all out. He says he's given you courtesy enough because he's done playing with a handicap.
Renna could also possibly be Ranni's other half(that she probably lost in the process of killing her body). To my understanding, empyreans are all made up of two people.
Marika and Radagon, Miquella and St. Trina, it's kept coming up time and time again. You could argue that the Goddess of Rot is the other half to Melania, but I'd definitely disagree there.
Godefroy is also a descendent of Godwyn I believe, just like Godrick. Might be cousins, I don't remember.
@@Big-Groß Rellana is very clearly Rennala’s twin sister according to item descriptions. She abandoned Carian royalty to marry Messmer. She is her own person and has no connection to Ranni outside of being her aunt.
"Stand proud Malenia, you are strong."
-GOATfroy
I'm convinced our roundtable is the past. Its the only time the two fingers are alive and "speaking".
Love this take and it makes sense
This still doesn't explain why it ends up burning along with the Erdtree
@@W_W-f8y in the video crunchy proposes it's in the past in the sense that it's a remembrance hewn into the erdtree. So it burning when you burn the erdtree is actually more evidence to that idea.
@@W_W-f8y did you *watch* the video?
only the strongest lore masters can bring forth the schizoest of theories
i had always assumed that godefroy exists to further showcase how the practice of grafting has been going on for generations passed down the golden lineage and that its always been reviled (which is why godefroy is in prison). they decided to show a member of the golden lineage imprisoned for this practice, reused godricks model for convenience, and didnt think much of it after that
What if Godrick is just a head grafted onto Godefroy’s body?
So you are saying Godrick is just a Dio wannabe?
Can’t wait to fight rahdaniel in the dlc
damn daniel
Well....
@@Nechrome9 yeah it happened
Honestly they should've committed to the bit and called him Prime Chadahn, since that's what phase 1 was going for.
They radiddle did it and now he’s a radaddle ****** v*****.
Please delete this. There's no evidence of this character in the game. It's all mods.
You lie, fool
Lol
He’s not canon, he isn’t in the lore
Wait…. Is radagons hair red and by extension marika hair gold, because it’s where the other personality is sealed? This would make sense as it would mean that radagon of the golden order is in fact associated with the golden hair meaning that the red haired curse of radagon is marikas influence
@@XxerikpereyraxXGordon Woo influence
The division of the Hand into fingers as a mistake in regards to personality reminds me of a Classic Star Trek Episode. Kirk:2=?
Through a Transporter accident, Captain Kirk gets split. One part being all of his „good“ attributes, one has all of his „bad“. Even though only one part is actively doing harm, the „good“ part isn’t actually functional either. While EvilKirk is running around the ship, trying to force himself onto subordinates & scheming to get control over the ship, GoodKirk is stagnant, indecisive, meek & has to rely on Spock for making decisions. If Spock would not be there to push him, he would just let EvilKirk destroy him.
Only through accepting those aspects of him, that they are part of what drives him & makes him a good captain, he is able to reunite.
It’s similar to the fingers. Two-Fingers-unmoving, in an „alive“ state yet rotting. Needing to convene forever with the greater will, which would take so much time, anyone who’d factor into its equation might just give up & leave, the situation changing drastically. It’s to slow.
The land under their guidance in a perpetuate state of stagnant life. It seems to need Marika & an Eldenlord bc it itself can’t make day to day decisions, like Spock was to GoodKirk, & big ones need great effort.
Frenzied Flame/3-Fingers actually do stuff, they have a goal (utter destruction) & are quick to react in getting into contact with tarnished that show promise in becoming eldenlords, so they can manipulate them into getting touched by the 3 fingers instead of burning the maiden.
Also they are the part with the thumb, the most useful digit. They can actually grasp stuff.
Similar to Kirk, reuniting the fingers would maybe fix a lot of the extremes & weirdnesses, bc there would be a balance of Life & Death, beauty & ugliness in the world & things could actually move forward instead of being stagnant or destroyed.
After my own heart with Star Trek references to explain ER. Love this explanation and I couldn’t agree more
Only problem would be that the two fingers and three fingers don't combine to make a full hand. The 2 are the middle and ring fingers, and the 3 are the index finger, middle finger and thumb.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 I don't think the hands themselves have been split but the outer god behind them. The Hands are representative envoys sent by the Greater Will/Frenzied Flame, so they where never created with the rest of the hand. Also it's kinda hard to actually make out which fingers are supposed to be which, because anatomically all fingers look the same, except the thumb. I always saw the 2 fingers looking more like a the pointer(which would be fitting for the righteous guiding force)& the middle with the 3 fingers looking like ring, little & thumb (esp little being a finger that is often seen as superfluous but with pointer & middle out of the equation, it works just as well with thumb as them did) but that might just be bc of the fatless burned look that makes it look thinner.
Godefroy was just made so Godrick doesnt get any credit for the idea of grafting, its the final kick of his corpse, since Gostoc couldnt do enough damage.
New theory: Godfrey killed Godefroy and grafted his own brain into Godefroy's body.
Oh shit! But how? Godefroy has more health than Godrick
Maybe Godefroy is Godrick's fate. Maybe the removal of the rune of death separated the innate fates of people into separate entities instead of deleting / suppressing them (as was probably intended).
If the fate of the average scrub is to just die and move onto the spirit world then this could explain why spirits are trapped under the Golden Order because their fate has effectively already been split off from them before they died (pretty much what your diagram shows, but not a mirror image but a continuation of that person in another plane).
So then the question is what happens if someone is not fated to die like a scrub but instead has some level of immortality or is fated to ascend to something greater. Could their fate become a real, living thing that can coexist with them?
We are told that the stars can manipulate fate so maybe this lead to the fate version of people being directly manipulated and could explain some of Radagon and Radahn's actions. In fact with the right knowledge could people start manipulating their own fates by influencing the movement of the stars?
Could help explain why Ranni had to die in some obscure ritual to regain her fate (she can wield the fingerslayer blade so she must have a fate) - could she have forced herself into the next plane with things in place to get herself back? Or could it be that it's Ranni's fate version that we actually interact with in game all along?
Feel like I'm starting to lose it now too but I can't shake that there is an explicit set of rules in place that would make everything click.
Idk why but I love Godefroy, its like FromSoft decided to add a gimpy little brother of Godrick or sumn. I remember finding him in the Evergaol and laughing when I realized I misread his name, originally I read it as Godfrey and was still having trouble remembering the difference between Godfrey, Godrick, and Godwyn. He was a bit of humor in my playthrough I really appreciated
Have you heard about our lord and saviour, Bols?
@@damearstor2120 I have not, I'm interested
I just assumed this is a body double made by Godrick while Godrick escaped Lendyll using the Mimic Veil.
A point for the time travel theory: the maelstrom in the middle of Farum Azula is much smaller, arguably too small to properly house Placidusaxx and the piece of the arena that we lie on to travel back in time used to be intact and inside the maelstrom, not outside it. The maelstrom is shrinking and Farum is crumbling but how could it be crumbling if its frozen in time? Well it's crumbling because Placy is dead in our time and he's dead in our time because we killed him in the past by travelling to that past from the present. We, the Chosen Tarnished, could be the reason why Farum Azula is crumbling.
Also, the more and more I think about this, the more it seems like ER is a sci-fi story disguised as fantasy. G.R.R.M. strikes again. Look up quantum properties of light.
I'm not very familiar with the works of GRRM, what books of his are other examples of scifi masquerading as fantasy, because I love that shit and would want to give that book/books a read.
The thumnail made me think that this was going to be a meme/joke video instead of the interesting analysis that it really is.
A LOT of the lore in ER is related to botany. Godrick (and Godefroy) are grafted which is how you bare a different fruit than the base tree would. The daughters of Malenia are seeds from a self fertilized flower. Miquella, Malenia and possibly Mesmer are self fertilized by two parts of one whole, some trees will produce both but seperate male and female flowers on one tree like Red maple, sugar maple, black ash, locust, mulberry, tupelo and sumac. However, sometimes people will plant both a male and female tree right next to each other so that it forms a semblance of a single tree, Marika and Radagon could have started separately and quite literally grew into one being or could be 2 pieces of one whole.
For Godrick and Godefroy I think Grafting is sort of a throw back Ideology within Elden Ring, sort of a mimicry of the primordial tree and the crucible. Trying to recreate the fruit of the crucible but with roots in the Golden Order. Godefroy would have become grafted even before Godwyns death, its not clear how long Godwyn was around after the dragon war, but before his half death, it could have been a long time. One of Godwyn's decedents seeing the glory of his progenitor and recognizing his own meager form decides the mimic the outcome of crucible and find strength in grafting, an obvious heresy to the Golden Order. Being that he was imprisoned right after the dragon war, it's most likely that Godwyn, who made peace with the dragons, was still very much whole and the ring unshattered when he was locked up. Godrick whether a descendent, sibling, or a piece of Godefroy likely became grafted MUCH later possibly even after the shattering as a way to seek strength to keep the rune that came to him. A technique already proven to work by Godefroy. Their Identical appearance I would attribute to the time and money saving Ctrl+C Ctrl+V technique, rather than a hint that they are the same or history repeating itself.
I'm baffled no one ever seems to think that Godefroy might be Godrick's twin. They're identical, and the game is chock full of twins. Regarding the Great Rune, I think it's fair to assume that Godrick's Rune should have been Godwyn's, since it's the Anchor Rune, and that Godrick only got it due to his ancestor's death. Thus, Godefroy doesn't have a Rune because no Rune was available: only Marika's direct offspring got one.
Personally I think the anchor rune isn’t actually that important, and that Godrick has it because it’s similar to grafting in the way that other rings of the Elden ring can be grafted to it.
@@christopherlyndsay8611 That's an excellent idea! I think it adds to the Rune's significance, though, not that it's mutually exclusive with what I said. After all, Godwyn seems to be so widely beloved it's ridiculous, he could easily have been the glue that held the Lands Between together, given the chance. He's also sneakily associated with the Crucible, something only someone extremely high in everyone's favour could manage to do unpunished. And lastly, Godefroy's existence proves that grafting was known to the Golden Lineage prior to Godrick.
I've heard the twin potential mentioned multiple times by content creators, even in this video, but whereas every other twin pair seems different in some way from each other, Godefroy and Godrick are identical in every way. It would be a good answer if we had any other information to go off of instead of just assuming that might be the case.
@@Awoken0 Not all twins are different, the D brothers are identical in every way. And yes, it would be nice to have more to go off on, but it is what it is. I still think the best explanation is that Godefroy was Godrick's younger twin and that the Golden Lineage got a seat on the Sovereign Alliance as a whole, just to honour Godwyn's legacy and its political weight. Since there weren't direct offspring of Marika among their ranks, they elected the eldest twin, Godrick, to take a Rune that was destined for Godwyn, not on the basis of strength, but of birth. This logic would explain several unclear points regarding Godefroy and his lack of a Great Rune.
I wonder if at fromsoft they were wondering what to put in this ever jail and some guy just said put godrick but give him a stupid name and everybody was like yeah that’s pretty funny.
I would argue that the metaphysical implications of Rennala and Radigon is just as important as the founding of the Golden Order itself. Prior to the marriage, the wars between the Carians and the Leyndell was not simply between two rival families, but also a metaphysical battle between the Greater Will and the Primordial Current. The marriage of the Carian line into the Golden Order essentially brought magic and sorcery as a concept into what is acceptable as Order, and many of the Light Incantations of Radigon are only able to exist because of the union of Gold and Magic.
Godefroy isn't real, he can't hurt me
godefroy was the person who really started grafting, and godrick stole this to gain power for himself
What if the real Godefroy was the friends we made along the way
I'm not sure why this confuses so many people Godefroy was clearly a rogue member of the Golden Lineage that was active around the time period following The Dragon War but before The Night of Black Knives. The Leyndell Knights would have actually been organized and capable of enforcing doctrine at the time. They wouldn't be much of an actual army otherwise. Considering what we learned about the Shamans in the DLC Grafting was probably only possible for members of the divine line of the Golden Lineage because they shared blood with Marika. Marika also probably found the concept abhorrent and when she found out Godefroy was experimenting in ways just as horrifying as the torture The Hornsent inflicted on The Shamans. She demanded his capture and imprisonment. He was a demi-god, but never carried a Great Rune because Marika hadn't shattered The Elden Ring yet. She also couldnt kill him because he was a demi-god and Destined Death had been sealed. He'd just come back, which might explain why Godrick looks identical to him. Godrick might be his reincarnation. Why are their axes the same? Who said Godrick had them made? When he fled the capital he took a bunch of relics with him. Not a stretch to assume the axes were a few of them.
I know this was made well before the DLC dropped, I just think the info found there reinforces my point. Its not explicitly necessary. Though I suppose none of it is, because its all supposition at best.
Bro your cooking up a 5 course meal rn
The actual lore is that Godrick felt embarassed about losing to you even after grafting a dragon, so he takes off the dragon, hides in the gaol, and pretends to be his long lost cousin
@@TheDraconicBard He's just a head. Gostoc was stomping on him. It's more likely that Godefroy was Godrick's shadow, and was sealed away to keep him from posing a threat to the capital.
@@wiseferret4745 nah that was all an elaborate ruse to throw you off his trail
Forget which item elaborates on this, but the reason Godfrey attached Serosh (his beast regent) to his back was to quell his urge to just murder everyone which was unfitting for a lord. Before he was Godfrey, he was just some random wildman named Horah Loux, so when he rips Serosh off of him, he's becoming one with his bestial nature again.
Godefroy and Astel 2 hold the secrets to the universe, I'm sure of it...
Astel could be explained. Either the adult form of falling star beasts are just called Astel, or all Astels share the same consciousness. Not dissimilar to D's situation.
He’s the father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate of Elden Ring
A small misconception about the morgott thrones, the thrones being displayed are only the thrones of traitors towards the golden order, more specifically people who no longer follow the golden order. Mohg and Godwyns thrones are not shown due to the fact that Godwyn died as a respected and true ally to the golden order and that mohg by being treated as an omen and not royalty never had anything owed to the golden order, including his loyalty. What must've occurred is that Godefroy while being imprisoned either was too small a piece to be considered a traitor (either from his strength or great rune capacity) or simply was not a traitor to the golden order.
Fuck it, Godefroy was a mimic tear that took Godrick's form and got trapped in an Evergaol
I think I got scarlet brainrot while watching this
pfp brother
@@spekter1391 pfp brother
bad pfp
maybe godefroy was the friends we made along the way
People are really coming at you with the Doyleist explanations when you delivered a very interesting Watsonian screed. Honestly prefer the thematic discussion far above the nitty gritty details of the lore because they turn a relatively mundane and wonky element like Godefroy into, well, this vide.
10:41 you know, I never realized just how badass Godrick’s phase transition cutscene is when the erdtree is burning
This is a crazily in-depth video on a boss from an evergoal that is easily missable. Great video man I was insanely invested.
I can't help but feel like Godefroy was an intentionall and very shrewd troll by Miyazaki to prank the lore obsessed fans and lore yt channel culture.
Huh. This video took the topic much more seriously than I expected it to based on the premise, thoroughly enjoyable!
I forgot this was about Godefroy like 5 times
"Well, they may be a lot of repeated boss fights, but at least it does make sense with the lore as we might expect multiple of them or they are an illusion, bec-"
Godefroy from fucking nowhere "Check this out"
I like to think that Godefroy is like Margit - just an image that was created to perform some task. So maybe it's possible that Godrick's image was captured, stored away in an Evergaol, and forgotten about.
Ok,
Now make a vid on Goondrick the Edgelord