I believe there will be some kind of extended story related cutscene involving the parting of water (sea to the south) to reveal the "Shadow" realm location. If you notice the first scene where the tarnished first enter area on top of Torrent, you notice wet ground that Torrent runs on. Also, many camera angles appear to give the feeling of looking "upwards" at Erdtree. The many island type land structures also appear to be shaped as if underwater previous and surroundings seem like lands are just in a bowl type area.
If Miquella is Marika's child radiating and everyone loves him (holy) doesn't it make sense that Messmer, mesmerizing , is the child of Gloam eyed queen (fire) in the land she was ruling. Both have the awe element. Also i think you pointed out the snake like figure on the briar set. Snakes plus drakes, makes sense that Messmer is demi-god from the previous age (Placidusax and Gloam eyed queen). Wrote this at the start of the vid idk if mentioned something about this. Also i get heaven-hell vibes, Marika is god, Miquella Christ maybe Messmer the devil Great vids Also the light of the tree shadows the light of the sun and moon
Hey Cruchy, thinking about the mention of the Jungian shadow, metaphorically speaking, I'm entertaining the idea that an empyrean's shadow represents the separation of the animalistic qualities of the human from the god allowing them to walk alongside their shadow but not be dominated by it. The shadow is family because it is of the individual. Ursula LeGuin had a story about a wizard who separated from their shadow at great personal cost but in the end had to unite with it to be whole again. All the Stark offspring in ASoIaF have wolves as 'shadows' and the story of the wolf's nature or relationship with the Stark is often communicating something about their inner unconscious and growth. The point I am getting to is this: What if the shadow lands represent the crucible or animalistic reality of nature but got separated from the lands between at the birth of the golden order? The alchemical transformation into gold seems to require sacrifice or transcendence. I think the shadow land is a libidinal or Id-based upside down of the golden orders lands between. I really like your interpretation of Marika's arrival occurring when the two were joined.
Messmer is Marika's firstborn, brother to Miquella and Melania. Statue behind him in Boss room depicts a woman holding a baby, Messmer wields a swordspear. Nameless King is also a firstborn and wields a swordspear. Like Filianore and Lady Maria, Messmer is protecting a dark secret. A great war took place and Marika took over the old crucible leader depicted in painting stabbing him in the head with a rune provided by the Greater Will. Throwing spaghetti.
1:02:24 The Helphen Steeple sword seems to be a representation of the rune of death. The two match very closely in shape, colour and are thematically connected. Both have four prongs either side pointing towards the base and the rune has a gap in the same spot as the red gem on the sword. The main difference in features being the three prongs either side at the point of the sword, but perhaps this is the fragment that was stolen from the rune of death. Putting on my tinfoil hat, the tip of the rune of death also seems faded/missing, that makes 7 missing points. In the art for the night of the black knives there are 7 assasins. The ancient Elden Ring symbol in Farum Azula also features the rune of death at the very bottom, pointing down below the other roots, right where you'd expect it to be if it was what connected to the underworld. With that being removed, the realm of shadow has been disconnected from the lands between. Commented on one of your other videos with a few of the same ideas yesterday so sorry for any repeat. Great to find someone also sharing the same as above so below ideas as myself.
The crater being the location of the shadow land makes total sense. If you consider where the sun is in ER (the north east) where would the Erdtree cast its shadow?
I think that's a decent thread to pull. However, the Erdtree (or at least it's illusion) is luminescent, but it's roots are not, meaning it's physical shadow would be below it. Possibly it's referencing that the Erdtree does not cast a shadow but causes surrounding objects to cast their own. It seems fittingly ambiguous for how the base game drip feeds you any real connective tissue to piece a complete narrative together, instead allowing us to speculate endlessly because we're all autistic lore addicts.
I think this two dlc thing is interesting. If Fromsoft had made two DLCs, Land of Shadow would have been split, I mean with the map itself. Sounds strange, therefore I believe in another large area underground which would have been dlc 2.
While I don't disagree that there's some generic grand music in ER's soundtrack, those tracks are used for several different bosses so I get it. I thought all of the remembrance bosses and all the area music was excellent though.
Agreed, the area music already gives me a sense of nostalgia when I hear it, especially Altus Plateau and Limgrave. It also has some of the most varied boss tracks of any of their games, tracks like the Ancestor Spirit, God skin Apostles, Elden Beast, Godrick the Grafted, Maliketh and Mohg are all incredibly unique feeling. I think it's their best OST other than Bloodborne.
One thing I wonder, if their was an elden lord in Farum Azula pre erdtee, but the ER is the root of the crucible/erd tree, was FA originally part of the area of the shadowlands? Was Marika the fled God kn that she "ascended" to the lands between with the erd tree while veiling her previous home
Just a goofy theory I have. To continue with your “upside down” idea, to borrow from Stranger things a bit. What if it’s sort of a reflection of the overworld? You point out that the Roman armor npc looks like Radahn. The old guy in the painting looks like Morgott. Looks just like him. The dude in the chair… Rennala. The woman in the blue field with the mask… eerily similar to Malenia. Messmer… Miquella? Crackpot loose theory but i feel like anything is possible. Also considering this is Miquellas dream. Unless touching his arm physically teleports us to the shadow world. Just my thoughts.
I DO think your theory on "The Shadow" tree depicted on original image released, DOES look more like the "roots" more than a tree. This could mean those roots folded UP on itself, perhaps a Godwynn action, of sorts.
TA stated at the beginning of their video that they were doing their conjectures off the release trailer alone without any of the interviews. Hence why they were off on some things.
I mean that’s fine. But I like TA too. 🤷♂️ TA has great presentation and ideas for the inspirations behind the themes. People are allowed to speculate.
@@Sohelanthropusno they don't lol, they always say it's their own interpretation in every video. Which is what literally every lore TH-camr does, offer an interpretation. No one is objectively correct
That interview comment you're referring to sucked. So many things I want to see happen but know I won't. Hope malenia or milicent will at least show up after their flower forms in the dlc
Everything in ER is in sets of twos. There are at least three twin pairs. There are two astels, two "godricks" etc. We do not know why or how but the community is hungry for an explanation. So if Miyazaki now comes in and says "mIqUeLla anD mELeNia aREn'T tWiNs" but that they have a third sibling, I fucking give up. Please Miyazaki, tell me this theory isn't correct. 😢
Oh god that helfen sword looks a lot like that old dudes spine-sword. The way uts "branches" look down and whatnot
I think the Stabbed Guy is Marika's first husband and the Bald Monk.
I believe there will be some kind of extended story related cutscene involving the parting of water (sea to the south) to reveal the "Shadow" realm location. If you notice the first scene where the tarnished first enter area on top of Torrent, you notice wet ground that Torrent runs on. Also, many camera angles appear to give the feeling of looking "upwards" at Erdtree. The many island type land structures also appear to be shaped as if underwater previous and surroundings seem like lands are just in a bowl type area.
If Miquella is Marika's child radiating and everyone loves him (holy) doesn't it make sense that Messmer, mesmerizing , is the child of Gloam eyed queen (fire) in the land she was ruling. Both have the awe element. Also i think you pointed out the snake like figure on the briar set. Snakes plus drakes, makes sense that Messmer is demi-god from the previous age (Placidusax and Gloam eyed queen). Wrote this at the start of the vid idk if mentioned something about this. Also i get heaven-hell vibes, Marika is god, Miquella Christ maybe Messmer the devil
Great vids
Also the light of the tree shadows the light of the sun and moon
Hey Cruchy, thinking about the mention of the Jungian shadow, metaphorically speaking, I'm entertaining the idea that an empyrean's shadow represents the separation of the animalistic qualities of the human from the god allowing them to walk alongside their shadow but not be dominated by it. The shadow is family because it is of the individual. Ursula LeGuin had a story about a wizard who separated from their shadow at great personal cost but in the end had to unite with it to be whole again. All the Stark offspring in ASoIaF have wolves as 'shadows' and the story of the wolf's nature or relationship with the Stark is often communicating something about their inner unconscious and growth. The point I am getting to is this: What if the shadow lands represent the crucible or animalistic reality of nature but got separated from the lands between at the birth of the golden order? The alchemical transformation into gold seems to require sacrifice or transcendence. I think the shadow land is a libidinal or Id-based upside down of the golden orders lands between.
I really like your interpretation of Marika's arrival occurring when the two were joined.
+1 for the Earthsea reference
If you'd like to explore the Jungian aspect more check out "The Centered Tarnished".
Messmer is Marika's firstborn, brother to Miquella and Melania. Statue behind him in Boss room depicts a woman holding a baby, Messmer wields a swordspear. Nameless King is also a firstborn and wields a swordspear. Like Filianore and Lady Maria, Messmer is protecting a dark secret. A great war took place and Marika took over the old crucible leader depicted in painting stabbing him in the head with a rune provided by the Greater Will. Throwing spaghetti.
it might not stick to a wall but it sure stuck to me!
I think the old guy could be Placidusax in human form... and the woman the GEQ
1:02:24 The Helphen Steeple sword seems to be a representation of the rune of death. The two match very closely in shape, colour and are thematically connected. Both have four prongs either side pointing towards the base and the rune has a gap in the same spot as the red gem on the sword. The main difference in features being the three prongs either side at the point of the sword, but perhaps this is the fragment that was stolen from the rune of death. Putting on my tinfoil hat, the tip of the rune of death also seems faded/missing, that makes 7 missing points. In the art for the night of the black knives there are 7 assasins.
The ancient Elden Ring symbol in Farum Azula also features the rune of death at the very bottom, pointing down below the other roots, right where you'd expect it to be if it was what connected to the underworld. With that being removed, the realm of shadow has been disconnected from the lands between.
Commented on one of your other videos with a few of the same ideas yesterday so sorry for any repeat. Great to find someone also sharing the same as above so below ideas as myself.
I like the long form content , excited to see your commentary on the reveals
Great and fun analysis G, couldn't have trusted anyone else to do this with a cold and objective approach to speculation
Keep it coming 🐐🔥
Great breakdown
Damn. Love the root theory. what if the ‘Lands Between’ means literally the lands between two halves of a tree?
The crater being the location of the shadow land makes total sense. If you consider where the sun is in ER (the north east) where would the Erdtree cast its shadow?
I think that's a decent thread to pull. However, the Erdtree (or at least it's illusion) is luminescent, but it's roots are not, meaning it's physical shadow would be below it. Possibly it's referencing that the Erdtree does not cast a shadow but causes surrounding objects to cast their own. It seems fittingly ambiguous for how the base game drip feeds you any real connective tissue to piece a complete narrative together, instead allowing us to speculate endlessly because we're all autistic lore addicts.
I think this two dlc thing is interesting.
If Fromsoft had made two DLCs, Land of Shadow would have been split, I mean with the map itself. Sounds strange, therefore I believe in another large area underground which would have been dlc 2.
While I don't disagree that there's some generic grand music in ER's soundtrack, those tracks are used for several different bosses so I get it. I thought all of the remembrance bosses and all the area music was excellent though.
Agreed, the area music already gives me a sense of nostalgia when I hear it, especially Altus Plateau and Limgrave. It also has some of the most varied boss tracks of any of their games, tracks like the Ancestor Spirit, God skin Apostles, Elden Beast, Godrick the Grafted, Maliketh and Mohg are all incredibly unique feeling. I think it's their best OST other than Bloodborne.
54:35 yes!
One thing I wonder, if their was an elden lord in Farum Azula pre erdtee, but the ER is the root of the crucible/erd tree, was FA originally part of the area of the shadowlands? Was Marika the fled God kn that she "ascended" to the lands between with the erd tree while veiling her previous home
Just a goofy theory I have. To continue with your “upside down” idea, to borrow from Stranger things a bit. What if it’s sort of a reflection of the overworld?
You point out that the Roman armor npc looks like Radahn.
The old guy in the painting looks like Morgott. Looks just like him.
The dude in the chair… Rennala.
The woman in the blue field with the mask… eerily similar to Malenia. Messmer… Miquella?
Crackpot loose theory but i feel like anything is possible. Also considering this is Miquellas dream. Unless touching his arm physically teleports us to the shadow world. Just my thoughts.
The dude in the painting is old codger that guides you from the candle sticks
I DO think your theory on "The Shadow" tree depicted on original image released, DOES look more like the "roots" more than a tree. This could mean those roots folded UP on itself, perhaps a Godwynn action, of sorts.
Super random but I believe you can see a Divine Tower in the background at 1:51:41
A lot of people put emphasis on Messmers "M" name, that he must be Radagons son but Mohg and Morgott seem to defy that convention.. unless..?
Does it say anywhere that this is where Marika became a goddess or is that someone's theory?
Miyazaki said that in an interview. The Land of Shadow is where Marika became a god and where the Erdtree was born.
TA stated at the beginning of their video that they were doing their conjectures off the release trailer alone without any of the interviews. Hence why they were off on some things.
TA has had a big record of spewing out bs, that's why I watch Kosmos, Crunchy and Last Protagonist for my lore
I mean that’s fine. But I like TA too. 🤷♂️ TA has great presentation and ideas for the inspirations behind the themes. People are allowed to speculate.
The whole community builds off of each other. TA has put some good ideas out there.
@@Sohelanthropusno they don't lol, they always say it's their own interpretation in every video. Which is what literally every lore TH-camr does, offer an interpretation. No one is objectively correct
@@Kalakmol weird thing is, he quoted Eurogamer interview but didnt bother to look at other one ? they were out at the same time
I am really sad that the DLC doesn't add any ending and that this will be the only DLC ever to be released...
I hope for another dlc. The Badlands.
That interview comment you're referring to sucked. So many things I want to see happen but know I won't. Hope malenia or milicent will at least show up after their flower forms in the dlc
meh, we dont know how it will look like maybe Miyazaki is doing a little trolling. we must wait for it to release really
Everything in ER is in sets of twos. There are at least three twin pairs. There are two astels, two "godricks" etc. We do not know why or how but the community is hungry for an explanation. So if Miyazaki now comes in and says "mIqUeLla anD mELeNia aREn'T tWiNs" but that they have a third sibling, I fucking give up. Please Miyazaki, tell me this theory isn't correct. 😢
Im new to the channel is this dude using a voice changer?
Yes
@@CrunchyVideos cool love your lore videos ziostorm got me onto your channel
@@HalcyonEX He uses a voice changer too but he’ll never admit it
Your Neurodivergent too?
lol