Hey guys. Thanks for the insights as always. Just a preface to what comes next: This is supposed to be aimed for more competitive views, right? If so, I feel you are reaaaaally of the mark when you were rating the 5+ shrugs against mortal wounds. While its true the heavy psycher factions have not come out yet, there are tons of mortal wounds in the game already. Admech, Orks (as soon as the new models become more availabe + the big chariot, some of the buggys, etc.), Sisters (bolt stratagem), and, as you mentioned, Death Guard all heavily rely (at least in some crucial moments) on their mortal wound output in competetive gaming. Ignoring 1/3 of all mortals wounds seems to be very potent in my eyes. I don't really get why Chef said it might not come up in every game - I think it definitely will! Definitely liking the format. I hope we will finally see more competetive videos from Lawrence again. Really miss the old days when you were attending to events more regularly. Really hyped for No Retreat. Wishing you all the best for that! I know you won't need any more luck with your dice rolls :D
**GW dancing down the corridors.** "Two wounds for you. Two wounds for you. Two wounds for everyone!" **Chaos and Xenos armies look up hopefully.** GW: "Not you."
Is there another tsons vid on the way, im just starting them and would love to see more on how others are playing it. Extra points if cult of time as thats my plan ;)
Agreed as far as strikes and interceptors, I think both are probably 2 points too cheap, maybe 3. I’m not a huge fan of gmndk, absolute beast, but the prevalence of high damage units and being targetable is a tough sell for me. Regular dreadknights are interesting. I feel strikes and and interceptors are the mainstays of the army but was surprised not to hear the discussion of paladins. Headed over to the on demand vidya now to see if they’re mentioned, but I see some incredible all-in stupid levels of damage coming from paladins that I feel has been completely overlooked in the new release, and the fact paladins are so well enabled and thematic in their role now due to those interceptors and strikes is definitely worth a look. Honorable mention; brotherhood champions are phenomenal toolkits for what they offer the army as a whole. I would not be surprised to see a blades of victory brotherhood champion, 2 units of purifiers, and a Paladin bomb become meta for grey knights alongside a larger bulk of some flavor of strikes and interceptors and dreadknights.
Thanks Chef for mentioning Iron warriors ignore cover, as an iron warrior player I am ultra happy about it. Then I realize I barely used that rule. I run daemon engines and dreadnoughts, the only things getting it is my 3 characters and 3 obliterators. Oh well......😂
I have the same issue! I basically run iron warriors for "daemonsmith" and their stratagems. But I think helbrutes still get the ignore cover? I could be wrong though
Thank you guys for your insights! I am astonished at all the different nuances both in the codex and the different play styles that you both are hamster wheeling in your heads. I especially love, "...This is very situational...or...This would be handy against 'x' armies..." It affirms this horrible mindset that I have seen in a lot of 40k (especially Grey Knights) players of "...building a niche army is cringe..." You guys affirm that sometimes using a cube block for a round hole shouldn't be mandatory. I appreciate all of you videos and can honestly say that you all are among the biggest influences that got me involved into 40k to begin with, so thank you!
I've completed my army of Grey Knights being led by a Nemesis Dreadknight Grandmaster, a Grey Knight Librarian, and Garran Crowe. In my army I have 15 Purifiers and 15 Paladins, in addition I have a Venerable Dreadnaught. I'm actually all set, in terms of having an army, dice, Codex, the Core Book, and the tape measure, all I need to do now is find a Warhammer 40K club in my area. Either way, I'm VERY excited to play Warhammer for the first time. Chaos and the Xenos cannot stand against my army, WE ARE THE HAMMER!!
Just to mention it was previously +1 to cast and +1 to deny with brotherhood of psykers. I'm a fan of the preservers brotherhood yeah the dreadnought stratagem isn't great, though you could run one to two, ten man terminators both with 4+ invulnerable save and 5+ fnp, also can give them both armoured resilience +2 to their armour save with tide of shadows and one of them having transhuman. Favourite would probably have to be the rapiers their output seems great. Can't wait for Lawrence to come up with a competitive list and crush it, he's my favourite GK player, keep up the good work (Y).
Oh armoured resilience can't target other units now? You should be able to to do the 5+++ next to the apothecary and more than once since its the brotherhood psychic power and in the tide you could do it more than once.
A plague marine is 21 points with just a bolter and 2 attacks. For 22 points the strike marines are literally better in every way other than DR and toughness, which isn't that much. Absolutely ridiculous.
@@bendixesser768 and as for strike squad you already has them both melee and shooting for no extra plus they are full-fledged casters now. For basically the same cost. Ridiculous
@@bendixesser768 DR is only good against damage 2 weapons. Toughness 5 is only good against strength 4 and below. Strike marines get better special weapons in shooting and in melee. The only reason death guard are competitive is because of poxwalkers which are only good for standing around on objectives.
When it first came out, I was a little perplexed by some of the changes (not the extra wounds though). I was also a little skeptical of some of the changes to Tides as well as going back to Smite instead of the mini-Banishment. But, after many months of testing, and seeing results at Tournaments, I can say that I really like the new Grey Knights. Funny enough, I've usually ran the army as lots of Strikes + Interceptors rather than the mass-Dreadknight build or the Paladin-bomb (although I do have the models for the latter). Neat to see that be a viable style now. What do y'all think of including Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, Coteaz, or Lord Hector Rex alongside the Grey Knights?
Thanks for the video! I have to say that I am not a fan of running against this army in casual play. They just feel very strong with the Smite Spam + plentiful shooting + strong melee + etc. They don't really have many weaknesses other than the number of models, but they can kill enough that this isn't too big of a deal. And the shrug against MW is great because MW are a good counter versus tough saves and Invulnerables. I guess we'll see what happens with points adjustments and such but, as of now, I do not look forward to facing them at all.
Thanks for the vid. I think GK cannot take top spot since it's missing S tier cornerstones of advance & charge, D3+3 and fights last. I also think brotherhoods are missing two traits. Admech and Orks receive two extra traits per kultur, why not for a brotherhood? I also think if they have no psykers, we need a buff since losing +1 to deny and giving up abhor is punishing. Escalation need a buff. Also, fights first abilities; I'm pretty sure they were written or printed before the FF/FL FAQ. Do you think GW will/should FAQ those to FL? I think we really need it. Would also like to see TDA prices drop as they are too expensive for 2+5++ chassis.
Hey mate. Just wanted to hear your thoughts regarding the GKs potential running the 9th edition version of the Razorback Spam list and if you think it could be effective in this edition.
The apothecary, HQ, paladin squad and a land raider is something I've seen several times. The 4 up and vulnerable save on that land raider with a bunch of troops and it is going to be useful. Also with the flat I can play my army shooty and still have my combat bonuses in this is in Malay letting him charge me and still have a bad day. I don't have to be charging people all the time So I can play it as a shooting army with a good maylay backup. Also with the new terminators thanks that I used to use they use elite choice terminators for I might go with the standard terminators. Is there effectively an elite choice offered as a troop
It’s a shame… having played quite a bit with them though, I have found that it hasn’t come up as much as you would think. I usually have a game plan with my tides and then stick to the same from turn 2/3
great vid! I saw another video about the librarian MW train with psychic epitome, the purifier supersmite and vortex of doom doing 11 MW a psychic phase on average! Get lucky with a super smite and it's 18 Mortal wounds! What say ye about that, Magnus?
i can vouch for that librarian, used him ina game against sisters and he killed 5 msu squads took 7 wounds of the high lord herself and then finished her off with his relic stormbolter. on tunr 5 he was poised to smite st katherine off the board so i could the shoot her dead but the game ended. He is amazing but is ignored because of the dreadknights raw killing power which you opponent has to focus on.
@@griffgoesgaming5974 it sounds absolutely disgusting, but on the other hand so much fun. Imagine taking 9-11 wounds off magnus (with the Wardmakers WLT undeniable on an 8+ on maximized 3D6) before going in for the kill. Or anything else, for that matter. Truly a powerhouse
Thunderhawk isn’t in the main codex so not mentioned, trying to keep the review concise. That aside though, with the amount of anti tank weaponry out there, I’m not convinced a thunder hawk would be worth it as still expensive…
@@tabletoptactics I would give it another month,or two I believe the meta will shift away from heavy AT for a bit until a knights codex drops. (or guard running heavy tank lists) It seemed to be going that way due to sisters / admech / dark Eldar, however orks definitely shook things up and may have changed that trends course.
Wow, GK are DEFINITELY not worse. Still in strong melee, spamming is easy because there aren't a lot of units to choose from. They just suffer the same problems they always have ... no powerful long-range shooting which technically, suits their lore. Still love them!
At first I was quite disappointed with the codex because it lacks the RAW output of the 8th book but im really coming around to it now. Wish the grandmasters could cast more than one power simply because that makes no sense to me but ill take those extra attacks and wounds any day!
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | เปิดใจ "อาจารย์ เบียร์ ฅนตื่นธรรม" นักสนทนาธรรมสายดุดัน!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vqaBI_mnoDk/mqdefault.jpg)
Love the new format!!! TTT just keeps getting better and better!!!
The odds on making a charge out of deepstrike with First to the Fray, Tide of Celerity and a reroll is about 82%
hell yeah, that makes a turn one all in teleport shunt a nasty option with a ton of CP support to back up the unit
Hey guys. Thanks for the insights as always.
Just a preface to what comes next: This is supposed to be aimed for more competitive views, right?
If so, I feel you are reaaaaally of the mark when you were rating the 5+ shrugs against mortal wounds.
While its true the heavy psycher factions have not come out yet, there are tons of mortal wounds in the game already. Admech, Orks (as soon as the new models become more availabe + the big chariot, some of the buggys, etc.), Sisters (bolt stratagem), and, as you mentioned, Death Guard all heavily rely (at least in some crucial moments) on their mortal wound output in competetive gaming. Ignoring 1/3 of all mortals wounds seems to be very potent in my eyes. I don't really get why Chef said it might not come up in every game - I think it definitely will!
Definitely liking the format. I hope we will finally see more competetive videos from Lawrence again. Really miss the old days when you were attending to events more regularly. Really hyped for No Retreat. Wishing you all the best for that! I know you won't need any more luck with your dice rolls :D
**GW dancing down the corridors.** "Two wounds for you. Two wounds for you. Two wounds for everyone!"
**Chaos and Xenos armies look up hopefully.**
GW: "Not you."
with inspiration from spider, I started my collection with Grey Knights :) Just finished painting my first squad of strike marines tonight.
Welcome to Titan!
@@tabletoptactics thank you very much :)
Top 5 units? That's basically the entire roster!
Top 5 changes.
@@stephenbarrett8861 on demand video is about top 5 units
@@stephenbarrett8861 yeah bud, I read the title and watched the video haha. I was talking their on demand video they mentioned at the beginning.
Wait, the hammers of titan knows Chefs true name? Makes sense, he became a pastrychef to lure mortals with yummy treats…..damn that cunning chef!
Is there another tsons vid on the way, im just starting them and would love to see more on how others are playing it. Extra points if cult of time as thats my plan ;)
Would have been nice for a hero section discussing what changes and character tier for the army
But great video as allways some good insights
Agreed as far as strikes and interceptors, I think both are probably 2 points too cheap, maybe 3. I’m not a huge fan of gmndk, absolute beast, but the prevalence of high damage units and being targetable is a tough sell for me. Regular dreadknights are interesting. I feel strikes and and interceptors are the mainstays of the army but was surprised not to hear the discussion of paladins. Headed over to the on demand vidya now to see if they’re mentioned, but I see some incredible all-in stupid levels of damage coming from paladins that I feel has been completely overlooked in the new release, and the fact paladins are so well enabled and thematic in their role now due to those interceptors and strikes is definitely worth a look. Honorable mention; brotherhood champions are phenomenal toolkits for what they offer the army as a whole. I would not be surprised to see a blades of victory brotherhood champion, 2 units of purifiers, and a Paladin bomb become meta for grey knights alongside a larger bulk of some flavor of strikes and interceptors and dreadknights.
ID love more content like this. like a weekly podcast or something
Thanks Chef for mentioning Iron warriors ignore cover, as an iron warrior player I am ultra happy about it. Then I realize I barely used that rule. I run daemon engines and dreadnoughts, the only things getting it is my 3 characters and 3 obliterators. Oh well......😂
I have the same issue! I basically run iron warriors for "daemonsmith" and their stratagems. But I think helbrutes still get the ignore cover? I could be wrong though
Thank you guys for your insights! I am astonished at all the different nuances both in the codex and the different play styles that you both are hamster wheeling in your heads. I especially love, "...This is very situational...or...This would be handy against 'x' armies..." It affirms this horrible mindset that I have seen in a lot of 40k (especially Grey Knights) players of "...building a niche army is cringe..." You guys affirm that sometimes using a cube block for a round hole shouldn't be mandatory. I appreciate all of you videos and can honestly say that you all are among the biggest influences that got me involved into 40k to begin with, so thank you!
I've completed my army of Grey Knights being led by a Nemesis Dreadknight Grandmaster, a Grey Knight Librarian, and Garran Crowe. In my army I have 15 Purifiers and 15 Paladins, in addition I have a Venerable Dreadnaught. I'm actually all set, in terms of having an army, dice, Codex, the Core Book, and the tape measure, all I need to do now is find a Warhammer 40K club in my area. Either way, I'm VERY excited to play Warhammer for the first time. Chaos and the Xenos cannot stand against my army, WE ARE THE HAMMER!!
Join us on demand its bad ass...Chefs pretty cool also 🤣🤣🤣
Just to mention it was previously +1 to cast and +1 to deny with brotherhood of psykers. I'm a fan of the preservers brotherhood yeah the dreadnought stratagem isn't great, though you could run one to two, ten man terminators both with 4+ invulnerable save and 5+ fnp, also can give them both armoured resilience +2 to their armour save with tide of shadows and one of them having transhuman. Favourite would probably have to be the rapiers their output seems great. Can't wait for Lawrence to come up with a competitive list and crush it, he's my favourite GK player, keep up the good work (Y).
Absolutely :)
You can’t get them both Armoured resilience (a spell they don’t and can’t know) and the 5+++.
Indeed, terminators don’t get armoured resilience. Paladins could pick it I suppose…
Oh armoured resilience can't target other units now? You should be able to to do the 5+++ next to the apothecary and more than once since its the brotherhood psychic power and in the tide you could do it more than once.
No, unfortunately armoured resilience can only be cast on yourself.
A plague marine is 21 points with just a bolter and 2 attacks. For 22 points the strike marines are literally better in every way other than DR and toughness, which isn't that much. Absolutely ridiculous.
Totally agree with you
Idk you get t 5 , minus 1 dmg and the option to make them melee , also you have other options in the troop section like poxwalkers
@@bendixesser768 and as for strike squad you already has them both melee and shooting for no extra plus they are full-fledged casters now. For basically the same cost. Ridiculous
@@bendixesser768 DR is only good against damage 2 weapons. Toughness 5 is only good against strength 4 and below. Strike marines get better special weapons in shooting and in melee. The only reason death guard are competitive is because of poxwalkers which are only good for standing around on objectives.
Weirdest thing to hear Chef being called Mike... I imagine you being a Michael rather than shortening it.... Still great faction focus!!
When it first came out, I was a little perplexed by some of the changes (not the extra wounds though). I was also a little skeptical of some of the changes to Tides as well as going back to Smite instead of the mini-Banishment.
But, after many months of testing, and seeing results at Tournaments, I can say that I really like the new Grey Knights.
Funny enough, I've usually ran the army as lots of Strikes + Interceptors rather than the mass-Dreadknight build or the Paladin-bomb (although I do have the models for the latter). Neat to see that be a viable style now.
What do y'all think of including Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, Coteaz, or Lord Hector Rex alongside the Grey Knights?
Thanks for the video! I have to say that I am not a fan of running against this army in casual play. They just feel very strong with the Smite Spam + plentiful shooting + strong melee + etc. They don't really have many weaknesses other than the number of models, but they can kill enough that this isn't too big of a deal. And the shrug against MW is great because MW are a good counter versus tough saves and Invulnerables. I guess we'll see what happens with points adjustments and such but, as of now, I do not look forward to facing them at all.
Need beard to do a thousand sons codex deep dive review!
I have always wondered why grey knights have wrist mounted storm bolters if they cant use then as pistols
Loving silverblades
Thanks for the vid. I think GK cannot take top spot since it's missing S tier cornerstones of advance & charge, D3+3 and fights last.
I also think brotherhoods are missing two traits. Admech and Orks receive two extra traits per kultur, why not for a brotherhood?
I also think if they have no psykers, we need a buff since losing +1 to deny and giving up abhor is punishing.
Escalation need a buff.
Also, fights first abilities; I'm pretty sure they were written or printed before the FF/FL FAQ. Do you think GW will/should FAQ those to FL? I think we really need it.
Would also like to see TDA prices drop as they are too expensive for 2+5++ chassis.
Hey mate. Just wanted to hear your thoughts regarding the GKs potential running the 9th edition version of the Razorback Spam list and if you think it could be effective in this edition.
The apothecary, HQ, paladin squad and a land raider is something I've seen several times. The 4 up and vulnerable save on that land raider with a bunch of troops and it is going to be useful.
Also with the flat I can play my army shooty and still have my combat bonuses in this is in Malay letting him charge me and still have a bad day. I don't have to be charging people all the time So I can play it as a shooting army with a good maylay backup.
Also with the new terminators thanks that I used to use they use elite choice terminators for I might go with the standard terminators. Is there effectively an elite choice offered as a troop
Finally ! Thanks guys .
I'd have liked to see a stratagem to change the tide. Some times you just need to change and the dice gods laugh.
What is your thought about not being able to go back to a previously used tide?
It’s a shame… having played quite a bit with them though, I have found that it hasn’t come up as much as you would think. I usually have a game plan with my tides and then stick to the same from turn 2/3
@@tabletoptactics it’s effectively a kill switch now. We’re meant to flip the switch, go ham, and never retreat
great vid! I saw another video about the librarian MW train with psychic epitome, the purifier supersmite and vortex of doom doing 11 MW a psychic phase on average! Get lucky with a super smite and it's 18 Mortal wounds! What say ye about that, Magnus?
i can vouch for that librarian, used him ina game against sisters and he killed 5 msu squads took 7 wounds of the high lord herself and then finished her off with his relic stormbolter. on tunr 5 he was poised to smite st katherine off the board so i could the shoot her dead but the game ended. He is amazing but is ignored because of the dreadknights raw killing power which you opponent has to focus on.
@@griffgoesgaming5974 it sounds absolutely disgusting, but on the other hand so much fun. Imagine taking 9-11 wounds off magnus (with the Wardmakers WLT undeniable on an 8+ on maximized 3D6) before going in for the kill. Or anything else, for that matter. Truly a powerhouse
We getting one of these for the Thousand Sons from you guys?
Yes :)
@@tabletoptactics Awesome, looking forward to it :> Thank you!
hey hey hey spider the strike squad are at a good points now leave it alone lol i like seeing alot more on the table now
Opens cupboard door. Looks at my Tau "sigh" close cupboard door and go and get a coffee.
Lawrence saying stormraven is too expensive but glosses over a 4++ invuln thunderhawk gunship shenanigans.
Thunderhawk isn’t in the main codex so not mentioned, trying to keep the review concise. That aside though, with the amount of anti tank weaponry out there, I’m not convinced a thunder hawk would be worth it as still expensive…
@@tabletoptactics I would give it another month,or two I believe the meta will shift away from heavy AT for a bit until a knights codex drops. (or guard running heavy tank lists)
It seemed to be going that way due to sisters / admech / dark Eldar, however orks definitely shook things up and may have changed that trends course.
For sure :)
@@rmo917 I don't think orks running 19 ramshackle buggies will make people stop playing antitank weapons
@@gustavotriqui Did you even read his reply lol? He specifically mentions orks shaking things up.
Wait, Chef has a real name other than "Chef"? Well that's a blow to take before the weekend.
Wow, GK are DEFINITELY not worse. Still in strong melee, spamming is easy because there aren't a lot of units to choose from. They just suffer the same problems they always have ... no powerful long-range shooting which technically, suits their lore.
Still love them!
Love me some grey knights
YES MORE OF THESE
At first I was quite disappointed with the codex because it lacks the RAW output of the 8th book but im really coming around to it now. Wish the grandmasters could cast more than one power simply because that makes no sense to me but ill take those extra attacks and wounds any day!
Yikes! Do NOT paus around the 25:52, 25:53 mark. Chef's eyes look like they are about to pop out of his skull!
People are talking about intercessors being too expensive im sat looking at my Eldar guardians, rangers and Dire avengers 😭😭😭
First into the fray!
I really like the GK. Always loved the army. But what's holding me back is the line is old, new Crowe is awesome but the strike squads :/
I honestly like every gk unit except the dreadknights. Maybe strikes will a get a upscale like crowe
@@joshuagraham5422 I really hope so
Strikesquads are some of the best bits boxes for Firstborn space marines
oh look another army that gets another wound to their main forces. "cries in csm"
I have both and have home rules ;)
All those in favor of calling Chef his new nickname 'Mike', say 'aye'!
Yes, yes but what about my Sons?
Pretty sure this is a side grade overall. Certainly not a tier one army competitively but maybe tier two.
Mike? Who bv the fuc.k is.. oh.. chef haha XD ok. Chef. Hah!
Good chat, but you boys need more sleep! Look tired