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Similar here. Not interested in roads at all. Best DL so far has been 215kg at 54. My goal is x3 bw which makes my target 270kg. Not sure if I’ll get there but it’s something to aim for.
The end of this video really reminds me of the quote from Mike Metzer: "Potential is only the expression of a possibility, something that can only be assessed accurately in retrospect. In other words, you’ll never know how good you might have become, unless you try."
@@lazur1 i agree. But still the point is that your potential is irrelevant unless you put the effort to reach it. You could think of potential as a granite cube, for some is bigger and for others is smaller, but unless you sculp that granite cube and transform it into a beautiful sculpture you'll only have a stone.
I am a 62 year old powerlifter, lifetime drug-free. I started lifting at 41 and coach in a drug-free powerlifting club and compete tested at M3 in the IPF. Online I often get accused of being a steroid user. I'm glad to see that you don't buy into that "everybody half decent must be on drugs" bullshit. Thanks for the great info.
The biggest issue with "can he/she be natty?" is one can never be proven natty, short of being tested every single day, which isn't feasible. Even lifters passing tests you get the "drug tests are just IQ tests" commentary. But there's always people failing tests year after year, and that just fuels the confirmation bias of "everyone is on gear".
Yep, that's true, boss. No use arguing about it. Just gonna have to take people's words, unfortunately. Even at my modest level, I get PED accusations - which I find funny. I'd imagine moreso for you at elite/world class. People are small-minded and incredulous. They're only hurting their own progress.
Absolutely true. Natty bodybuilding, which is greatly expanding this year, is all but on the honors system. Think about how much of a joke it is even in the IOC sports, the only place (other than a few like pro tennis) where testing isn't almost openly merely ceremonial. Then consider how they enforce the out-of-competition bans on top competitors with the onerous and expensive "whereabouts" system, and how impossible it is to do anything of the sort in the ridiculously small and niche and cash-poor sport of bodybuilding, even though it's easily the most affected by long term out of competition drug use of any sport.
A 400lb bench in High School is absolutely possible. My friend I knew for years from middle school through high school was a full tilt super hard working farm boy and built like a brick house and just naturally strong as hell. As a senior he was 5'11" and about 240 250lbs of farm yard muscle and put up 400lbs. He of course was a lineman on the football team.
There are people, that through the combination of nature and training, can be as strong as enhanced people naturally. Athleticism is not evenly distributed- some people are freaks. Juice probably improves performance like 10-15%, but theres many natural lifters stronger than people on gear
@@JSK_03 Not at all. Just a strong guy doing hard work from a young age that was built for it. After high school he got married and continued working the family farm.
Haven't even got to that part of the video yet, but I already know it's that photo of George Eiferman on the beach that has been bizarrely mislabeled as John Grimek for years for some reason despite them only looking vaguely alike.
I’m 46 years old and have been consistently lifting since the age of 16 when I started weight training for high school sports. In over 30 years of training , I’ve set countless PRs and have seen my body weight increase from around 175 lbs to 240 lbs while maintaining a healthy body fat percentage. Also, I’m a natural lifter. I don’t have anything against anyone who uses PEDs or TRT under the care of a physician. I just decided that wasn’t the route for me. I’ve never competed or had any desire to compete. I feel like my competition is against myself. At 46, I’m stronger on the big 3 lifts than I have ever been, and my goal is to maintain that for as long as possible through natural training means. I realize Father Time will eventually catch up with me, but I feel like there’s no reason, barring injury, that I can’t maintain a significant level of strength into my 50s and beyond. I am dedicated to maintaining flexibility and still perform ATG squats on a weekly basis. To sum it up, I agree with much of what you said in this video. I’m not trying to brag, but I outlift many men in my gym who are 20 years my junior, mainly because I have been consistent for many years with training and my diet, and I’ve never been afraid of hard work. Oh, and I acknowledge that I was lucky in the genetics lottery.
Hi Guys I'm a 5ft 6 54 year old NATTY Powerlifter. Training since I was 17yrs old. My Best lifts are 462lbs- 320lbs -485lbs single ply @148lbs I know these aren't very impressive numbers , but I enjoy competing with myself.The more time passes the more I realise that this is NOT an exact science ! There are so many ascending and descending factors that Influence my performance.. What I have learned , is DON'T feel you have to stick to the program exactly - to listen to your body & don't be too proud to switch to the occasional light easy workout , If your CNS tells you to Good luck ...... Remember some times Less IS More!
I've been a natty lifter my whole life. I was sub 20% bodyfat at 6 foot 250lbs Bodyweight and conventional Deadlift 700lbs Beltless my first ever powerlifting meet, 560lbs Raw Squat ass to grass nothing on knees, 405lbs Bench Press in the gym 350lbs in a meet, 480lb Front Squat in sleeves, 600lb Squat in sleeves in the gym, 715lbs Conventional Deadlift in the gym. Gained Bodyweight and got to around 20% bodyfat. Squatted 615lbs back squat, 450lbs Bench Press, 750lb Beltless Conventional Deadlift for 2 reps, 315lbs Seated Military Press, 385lb Incline Bench Press, 515lbs Front Squat in sleeves, 675lbs Snatch Grip Deadlift. These numbers are something most natties or steroid users don't hit especially not being obese and being tall long limbed. I knew natties can't do what steroid lifters do. But I thought we can come close. I just focused on getting better and even using my steroid inspirations to get close and aspire for something even if I knew I wouldn't achieve it. I ended up getting better and I also surpassed what I thought possible. I'm still making progress to this day ups and downs and injured. 18 plus years natural. I have more left naturally. Even if I peak in strength I can find something else to improve naturally.
Awesome numbers, we are practically same height and weight wise and those numbers are pretty much the numbers I aspire to achieve naturally. Did you follow any specific programs, had a coach or simply learned to train by yourself through trial and error?
@@talder123 Good to know. I just started training with Sheiko gold app and I want to see how will it go but I might ask for some coaching in the future if you’ll be willing 🙂. If you’ll be willing and if it’s not too much to ask how much do you charge?
Marvin Eder in the photo to the right, yes? Absolutely one of the strongest pound for pound guys ever imo. Likely a natty too. Though that's not guaranteed as I think anabolic steroids were invented around his time (but were not widely available yet).
Eder, b10/22/31, in the only photo@3:52. Turned16 late'47, & 19in'50. Chance of drug use is absurd. Even US Olympic lifters didn't know "roids" existed til '54, & it's just testosterone. There's no commercial production of steroids, (Dianabol), 'til '58. Pros@York got it a couple yrs before that, in limited quantities.
@@saleemisgodIt's highly likely that he was natural. Plus if you look into him he hated the idea of steroids even existing. Even decades after he quit lifting he called them a disease.
Growing up with a dad whos a farmer and seeing other farmers and manual laborers I know that people can be way stronger than one thinks. At 75kg bw my dad was really strong and with an endurance that makes you question things. In later years he asked my sisters husband whos been training 30 years in the gym for some help. My dad just shook his head ”I thought he would be strong and able to help..” Ive helped my dad with things that for the two of us was almost impossible to just tohear he had done it himself previously! A farmer friend of my dad did a one arm pullup once at 55 years old, never been in a gym.. Then we have those old guys who worked in the logging industry in their youth who at 80 outworked us 20 year olds.. Or the uncle of a workmate who at 92 dug 100m of ditch in 30 deg C heat while the 30 year olds sat discussing how to do it.. People are capable of much more than one can think. Its just that you need to put in the effort..
The story: Grimek tried the stuff, got no effect, & stopped. My perception: In post-competition Grimek photos from York's exercise instruction booklets, Grimek's more muscular than he was in his competitive prime.
Mr. Rigoulot was also a French resistance member in WW2. He purportedly bent the bars of his holding cell the first time he was captured and was able to escape. Legend.
Dave tate says aas gives a 10% boost, I tend to agree for most people. However I think there’s some people who are hyper responders that get a larger boost. My buddy went from a 300-425 bench in 4 weeks on 300 tren, which is absolutely insane. Most guys will Probly get a 20-30 pound increase in that time
Yea and some hardly any boost except for shoulder pimples. I’ve seen young guys clearly blasting gear 150 pounds boilers all over their delts and biceps. Only noticeable muscle they have are slightly capped delts. My first cycle of test 500/week. I went from 200-230. My bench went from 225x5 to 275x5 in about 4 months was eating alot. I’d say that’s pretty average for most guys
I can’t imagine taking tren to boost my 300 bench. Absolute idiocy, to destroy your health for a bench that while is impressive, is just pretty good when comparing to the top powerlifters who are having success.
I feel we also have to account for the time we live in. I believe our natural strength Is way lower then the past Genetically. I.E before we became " Urbanized" . When we all lived on farms and homesteaders, hunted, we were way stronger then now. Just how I feel no Proof.
@@stevenlake5278This is just nostalgia speaking. We have footage of what the average person looked like all the way back to maybe 1880 or so. The average farmer was not jacked whatsoever. Sure, maybe in better shape than today's office workers who don't exercise, but not in better shape than any serious lifters. I also don't think they had somehow magically higher strength/muscle potential back then. No more than someone today with the same manual labor background. Geoffrey Verity Schofield is a good example I think. Massive base of work capacity from his days as a distance runner, similar to what a manual laborer might have. That allowed him to do more work, and grow bigger. That's as possible today as it was 100 years ago. Likely more because we're richer, can afford more food/protein, have creatine, work less/recover more, have more free time to train, access to better equipment and training information etc.
Arnold made almost everyone in my generation want to lift at least a little bit. I was born in 1971 and Arnold changed everything, especially once he went into the movies. He's the reason no one accepts superheroes that aren't muscular and lean. Most action stars had to step up and lift. The two biggest and most impactful stars on American action movies were Arnold and Bruce Lee. Before them, action stars looked like big guys who could throw some movie punches. After Arnold and Bruce Lee, if you weren't buff in and in shape and able to do martial arts, you weren't that impressive.
@chandansimms9167 sure. Day 1 Snatch for doubles till you hit near limit Clean and jerk for singles Continental Clean for a few few more singles Barbell curl for triples Day 2 1-arm kettlebell curl and press for doubles Clean and military press for triples One arm kettlebell swings for doubles Deadlift for triples Day 3 Rest Day 4 1-arm kettlebell curl and press (same as day 2) 1 arm snatch 1 arm clean and jerk 1 hand deadlift Squat for sets of 6 Day 5 Clean&Press same as Day 2 One arm kettlebell swings same as Day 2 Muscle snatch with kettlebells higher reps Grip work Day 6 Kettlebell curl and press Snatch Clean&jerk Front squats Barbell curl
I would bet that's the case. Dbol hit the scenes in 58 and that seemed to blow up the powder keg. Disposable syringes didn't even exist until the mid 50s... I just don't see anyone not part of a state sponsored team getting regular injections from a doc before then
I’ve been able to naturally take my wrist curl to half my body weight in one hand with a coke can sized fat grip for 8 sets of 1-4 reps. Training natty is awesome. Key is to use the same weight for many months before progressing.
Most people, natty or not, never reach anywhere near their limits for any number of factors. I am 49 and I am in PR territory on the bench. If I had pushed to my potential when I was younger I don't think my strength peak would be at 49. But the point is at 49 there is still room for me to progress closer to my potential.
Yeah, guys weren’t using anabolic steroids before the 1930s, but we know from the Tour de France that guys were using things like strychnine and cocaine even in the early 1900s. I’ve never used any drugs, but I would imagine that cocaine probably has a pretty good ergogenic effect.
awesome video. i would like to say, however, i think the greatest goal of all for not caring how others do compared to you, not being worried about this, not wanting to do steroids or anything like that, is to be your best self. to be healthy. then you don't want to be
Bromley I don't know if you've done a video on it yet but I think it would be sick to do a video for blue collar lifters the Mark felix video briefly touched on it and it got me hyped!
It's crazy that people think of 400 lb bench press for a high schooler isn't possible. For me I think the bench Natty limit for 99.9999% of humans is 550-600lbs. There may be some one in a billion talents that can do more but I don't think it's going much further than that.
I’m close to or at the natty limit for a 100kg 5’8” lifetime natural 60 year old bench presser. I’m currently benching 195kg looking to get 200kg soon.
The natty limit is extremely high! People may not want to believe that but it is definitely true. Sucks when your own limit is much below that (real or perceived). Nice video!
Early on they did more pulls off the floor and overhead lifting. It resulted in better/stronger physiques for the average lifter. No big mystery really. John Grimek never did triceps extensions. The press and pullover took care of everything. Nobody wants to hear that today.
Yep, people see machines+cables and free weights are equal for “hypertrophy” in short studies. But what about strength? And what about the correlation between building immense strength that then translates into size? They never mention that
the limit is for sure higher than most think, everyone i talk to that goes to a gym semi frequently is seemingly obsessed with having comfortable workouts instead of actually doing more
My take from the video is steroids aren’t really moving the possible strength cap up as much as just helping people short cut the way there. The limiting factor is probably tendons/ligaments/skeletal structure and not so much being a absolutely mass god
I tend to agree. Durability is huge; average ass genetics can do a lot if it can survive the meat grinder, but extremely talented people have fallen short because they can't sustain the work.
“If this isn’t a sign to close the goddamn pubmed browser and go get your fucking hands dirty; I don’t know what is” - perfectly said and amazing video. As Bugenhagen would say “thhhhhank you faaahh beeyung ah friiiiind” 💪
Just competed in my first meet at 46 and used base strength AI for prep. I used the bullmastiff program and had a great meet! 9 for 9 and a 1205lb total at 192lb body weight. Trying 70’s powerlifter for my next meet
The most eye opening natty lifter for me was prolly FreakieD, who you've talked with on your channel, who has a 550 lb bench press. I didn't necessarily believe in a natty limit, but in my head it was like late 400s for bench before that.
Jesus Varela "Bilbo" is a spanish benchpresser that lifted 240 kg natural. You can check him out because he has an original program based in high rep ranges
I started power lifting at age 20 and did some bodybuilding training also , I dead lifted 300kg at age 28 and again at age 40, what used to get to me was when people would assume I was on drugs, never tried it wasn't interested, hard training and very good genetics, I'm 62 now still training to keep fit and strong I don't deadlift or squat anymore but can do all other exercises, the good old days and boy do they pass quickly 😊
There is no natty limit. There are so many freaks out there that don’t even lift or never make a good training run to get their numbers up. What we see is only the tip of the genetic iceberg so to speak. I had a friend in the marines that benched 415 when he was 16 (at about 165). Unfortunately he was a heroin addict and never got clean enough to make a good run at world records. I once saw him get back in the gym after a 6 month heroin binge. He was weighing about 150 because he lost so much mass. He hit 365 on bench that first day back in the gym. His elbows were wider than my knees, he could’ve done 600 with a few good years of training and more mass. Once an elite middle distance runner started training with me. In his first month he ATG pause squatted 400 pounds at 155 body weight, literally embarrassing me with my years of dedicated training. He died in a hit and run about a month after that. He too could have set world records within a few years I’m sure.
Even the lower-tier IPF lifters are a lot stronger than most steroid users and there are 100% some true natties there. People are way, way too pessimistic about the level of strength that is achievable natty.
How am I supposed to be motivated by the knowledge that there are people so much more gifted than me that they achieve superior results without testicles, steroids, a gym, knowledge of training and nutrition. I would rather cry and quit sports
Fun fact the image of the man carrying the horse he was carrying a war horse and it got injured so he carried it to rescue in battle. Bro literally described me in a nutshell 16:15
A good equivalent to what he's saying is look at Men's gymnastics in the Olympics you know damn well none of those guys are on steroids but yet they are jacked as hell
In Julius Maddox's own words, he said he went on TRT after hitting 600 lbs on bench. Considering he's 800 lbs capable now, I believe that was his natural top end.
Y'all don't have to believe me but while being 100% natty in under 2 year of lifting ever in my life in my early 30s I have already done 195lb over head for a 3 reps, 445lb high bar squat for 4, 495lb conventional deadlift for one, and 250lb standard grip bench for 4. I then hurt my rotator cuffs. 🤦 Rip helps to just be a big guy. These numbers get way less impressive when I say I'm 300lbs lol got that fat boy strength. Once I'm back I'm gunning for 600s in the squat and deadlift, and 200s for over head and 300s for bench.
@@snowsanta7 yeah they really aren't but they're still higher than many people get. They came from just being very consistent. I definitely don't have my nutrition or rest dialed in, but I was showing up 3-4 times a week and pushed every workout and the numbers kept coming. I didn't stop because the numbers weren't going up just injury which was definitely a form issue. Today is my first day back. Hopefully gonna go from a decent lifter to a good one next year still natty.
@@J.c410. Agreed. His lifts were about bang on the money for early 90’s ped cycles. Something changed later on when it went mental right up to 501kg. And next year that may be 520kg
One of my engineering professors said “yes there’s multiple ways to learn and theoretically yes they should all get you to the same results, but if there’s time tested and proven methods why risk it on the new and fancy way to learn. Do it by the book, there’s nothing wrong with the book.” He was talking about engineering but whole time he was COOKING about lifting
This is a very timely video. I think the biggest pitfall early natty lifters fall into is too much self comparison. To untested lifters or to natty lifters who've put up exponential more time into lifting. I recently had that paradigm shift, that comparing myself to lifters who've put in a decade or even two decades of lifting while I have barely three years of consistent good training is senseless. And you wouldn't do that in any other avenue of life, so why lifting? As a young natty lifter, just put your head down, train smart and train hard, eat well, sleep well and do that consistently for at least a decade before you can even start talking about a genetic limit for you.
Very interesting analysis. I always said in strength sports it’s roughly ~10% difference. As an Olympic Lifter in my sport it’s a little murky as yes it’s tested and restricted however cheating is robust. In O lifting however cheaters are subjected to testing and their enhanced potential is affected by the conditions of the sport. With O lifters the ones that are natural vs known cheats the difference is about 10% (i.e. heaviest CJ by a natural heavyweight 109kg Wes Kitts is 223 and the heaviest (enhanced)ever by Zakharevich is 250.5 at 110kg. Powerlifting comparison is even better when you compare a restricted vs non restricted federations where enhanced are given the opportunity to demonstrate full potential, and the difference is ~12% as per this video analysis. Where I do think enhancing truly is dramatic is bodybuilding 220 lean vs 260 lean at same height is a world of difference, 550 lb vs 600 lb in weight moved not as much.
@@kreidemadchen7291 you will. I went from 140lbs at 17 and have been around 90kg (198lbs) since 35 till about 50. Over the last ten years I have force fed up to as much as 16stone or 102kg/ 224lbs. I can’t get heavier without getting fat. So I really need a 2.5 x body weight bench to hit my goal of 5 plates (220kg/485lbs) before 65. I really do hope my balls keep working.
For lighter lifters, ×2 bw bench, and ×3 bw squat and deadlift are attainable. Very likely Hepburn was natural. Pre 1950s lifters are most likely natural.
@snowsanta7 in my mid 20s I hit 500 squat, 265 bench, 475 deadlift, 225 press, and 185 curl. At 170. I'm 51 now, trying to get those lifts and bodyweight back
I don't know. I think a two times body weight bench press is quite Elite. I've only ever known a few people who could bench twice their body weight. My best is 2.3 times body weight
@logicisdead9871 my lifting partner hit 370 bench at 165 bw at the Keystone games in 1995. Definitely drug free, he could barely afford protein powder lol. It's definitely elite, but elite is possible natty if you put in the work
@@jima6545 Man at 51 its frikkin awesome, you're an inspiration, I'm at 180 and my bench is 255 and 155x3 OHP at 21yo, I'm tryna get your dad strength for sure.
I believe it proves, that we are all different in so many ways with so many factors, somebody needs juice to deadlift 400 lbs, others able to benchpress it naturally. I think, we just have to stop focusing on the numbers, in non competitive lifting I mean.
I knew a guy, I will call him Allen. I met him in the gym where I was trying to transform my string bean body. So this guy was built, very muscular in a balanced way, so much so that I thought he was a pro bodybuilder. He would do a couple of sets of curls, and a couple sets of pull downs, do a double bicep in the mirror and go home. I got to know him and he was into hockey and was hoping to make it to the NHL, so he was either playing or in hockey camp or doing drills. He only came to the gym to goof around. He was very nice (a good thing for all of us). Yes he trained, he was an athlete, but just had a fantastic natural physic.
Great video, Alex! Much more can be achieve naturally than people often realize. Pete Rubish is an absolute beast, but without gear, I doubt he’d be pulling 800+ lbs. Running max doses does a lot more than just adding 100 lbs to your deadlift
Based on what? Bob Peoples pulled 710 weighing 185 before steroids were even available, before modern training methods. I guess with tren, some specialty bars and a program he wouldve pulled 1100 at 198? I'm curious what you think is a reasonable guess and what data leads you to settle on that number?
Bob Peoples had insane leverages for the deadlift. My wild guess is that if he used modern training methods and blasted to the moon and stuffed his face, he could deadlift 900-950lbs conv at 198, which is incredibly freaky. His leverages for the deadlift are much more favorable than Pete's IMO. I don't have scientific data to back up my guesses, but from my observation, most enhanced deadlifters who stop using steroids usually lose well over 100 lbs on their deadlift (or gain when start using). Pete Rubish himself mentioned that people wildly underestimate the amount of size and strength steroids provide. His deadlift went from around 600 to 920 lbs when he started using, and then dropped back to around 630 lbs when he stopped. I think Pete is a very high responder to gear, and his case might be a bit extreme, but still from what I've seen online and in person, gear in extreme high doses contributes more than people think.
I actually don't think he's a high responder to gear at all. He competed at 245 and was only like 20lbs lighter in 2022 when he locked out a 705 deadlift with his test levels still crashed. That's the point, advantages come in a lot of ways but people think "gear" and settle on that as the most important variable. He was a talented deadlifter more than a high responder, or else his bench and squat would've been mind blowing as well and he would've had the mass of a low tier bodybuilder. His numbers right after going off don't mean anything. They drop temporarily because A.) your hormones are destroyed and it takes time to bounce back and B.) training gets dialed way down because you know your hormones are crashed. When I went off a few years ago to work on having my son, my lifts dropped below my best natty numbers as a 19 year old. But I was still actively competing so I got to see them spike back up with training and food consumption. Funny enough I hit an all time squat PR almost 2 years off gear because I was eating like an asshole and not riddled with inflammation. So if Pete wasn't "family man focusing on health and running 40 miles per week", he would be growing back towards his potential, but right now he's a skinny friggin' rail who is still over a 600 pull without really trying.
its possible, i know cause my cousin did it. However, he is suffering from genetic hypergonadism so idk if we should count it. And yes hes suffering cause was norwood infinity at age 16 and they have heart issues at age 30.
Idgaf about the journey, I just want to grow very old and also be physically capable of taking care of myself and enjoying those golden years when I do
Probably not before 1958 when Dianabol was released. And even then probably very few. Before that the Russian weightlifting team on Testosterone and the American.
Over 25 years of training, been to various gym in different area of my country, met thousands of lifter, i only witnessed less than 3 real genetics phenomenon. One was benching 275 for reps at 16 y.o like nothing at 70kg bdw, doing weighed chins for sets but wasn't interested in lifting. I met a lot of strong people but all were juiced, some admitting it, other being pathetic liars. Genetic phenomenon exist but they're a rarity.
I mean, a lot of insane records, some still not beaten, where done by XIX-early XXth century strongmans, or even earlier. They where all natty, and quite some did not even trained.
Ohp'd 60kgx5 while weighing in at 62kg. Pretty damn proud of that. I like to think of lifting as a pool of strength to be accessed spiritually, it is why mentality is half the rep. If my caveman ancestors could crush one another with huge stones, then I am just going to do whatever they did.
Somepeople have better strength potential just started lifting weights again enjoy only one day week been bodeyweight manuel work 6ft178 at moment can bench 250lb for reps squat 300lb deadlift 400lb for reps in my forties hope to get 300lb bench for reps 400lb squat 500lb deadlifts Can row 5km under 20min and have half tank gas left we have different abilities gone try progress slowly to my goals good video
Saxon's Bent Press was an official record, performed in front of judges,and it was "only" 50~70 lbs heavier than other verified personal records of lifters like Harold Ansorge and Thomas Inch.
Official in what? There were no feds. These were exhibitions. There is also an article that's pretty easy to find of Inch saying "yeah, no" about some of his claims
@@AlexanderBromley Official as in confirmed by eye witnesses who were present at the events and, as far as we know, had nothing to gain from lying. I'm not saying there wasn't a lot of bs back then, 3 huge examples being Sandow's light bs system, Maxick's claims that he built himself by literally flexing and Rolon/Pandour talking about "never having touched weights in their lives", but Saxon's Bent Press record is such an unquestionable truth in bronze era books that I find it hard to believe he was lying, Was everyone in on it? Did Saxon pay them all to make him look good? If we were talking about a small group of friends, sure, but these were men from austria, germany, france, england and russia, all with different agendas. Also, the bent press is a support lift, not much of a press, no one is side pressing almost 400lbs, that's for sure.
Everyone doesn't need to be in on it. His 370 was a solo exhibition. How easy to come by were scales that could weight a 370lb bar in the 1800s? Were people in the crowd eager to weigh buckets of sand 15lbs at a time to verify? It's exponentially easier to weigh things today and in 50 strongman shows I haven't seen a single person bring a scale to check. From Thomas Inch, "This was because at the time it was quite customary for so-called strongmen to outrageously exaggerate their lifts, one 10 stone (140 lb) lifter calmly claiming a Bent Press of 336 lbs. whilst the bell probably weighed only 140 lbs. or so." He went on to describe 2 different instances when he supposedly missed 350, and a special 370 that Inch had made him, then, "A claim was put forward that he had raised 370 lbs. when on the Continent but I am afraid that this lift was not checked properly and could hardly be accepted as a strict record.... At one time the so-called friends of the Saxons claimed that he had... raised over 400 lbs. bent press after commencing with a very much higher weight..... he always gave me to understand that it was much exaggerated to say the least" So why isn't Inch's skepticism taken into account? Why does everyone accept it as real? The reason is that anything from a long time ago or far far away gets assigned some supernatural quality and we stop asking questions. But the distance between us and history should make for more skepticism, not less.
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Due to an Inherited heart condition, I have to train natty, and I enjoy it. Just deadlifted 200 kilos at an age of 56.
That's awesome
@@FordyHunt Thank you.
Sir you are a beast
Similar here. Not interested in roads at all. Best DL so far has been 215kg at 54. My goal is x3 bw which makes my target 270kg. Not sure if I’ll get there but it’s something to aim for.
Congratz!
The enlightened take is that whatever my current PRs are, are obviously the natty limits and anyone who can lift more is on gear
You say that jokingly but that tends to actually be how people's minds actually think on this topic.
The end of this video really reminds me of the quote from Mike Metzer: "Potential is only the expression of a possibility, something that can only be assessed accurately in retrospect. In other words, you’ll never know how good you might have become, unless you try."
No one attains their full potential. Even Ronnie will tell you that he didn't.
@@lazur1 i agree. But still the point is that your potential is irrelevant unless you put the effort to reach it. You could think of potential as a granite cube, for some is bigger and for others is smaller, but unless you sculp that granite cube and transform it into a beautiful sculpture you'll only have a stone.
@@eduardoubilla4307 All you can do is make progress.
You mean mentzer, ironically a heavy user of steroids
I am a 62 year old powerlifter, lifetime drug-free. I started lifting at 41 and coach in a drug-free powerlifting club and compete tested at M3 in the IPF. Online I often get accused of being a steroid user. I'm glad to see that you don't buy into that "everybody half decent must be on drugs" bullshit. Thanks for the great info.
The biggest issue with "can he/she be natty?" is one can never be proven natty, short of being tested every single day, which isn't feasible. Even lifters passing tests you get the "drug tests are just IQ tests" commentary. But there's always people failing tests year after year, and that just fuels the confirmation bias of "everyone is on gear".
Yep, that's true, boss. No use arguing about it. Just gonna have to take people's words, unfortunately.
Even at my modest level, I get PED accusations - which I find funny. I'd imagine moreso for you at elite/world class.
People are small-minded and incredulous. They're only hurting their own progress.
💯
look at the traps and shoulders, when those are so prounounced, they arent natty.
Absolutely true. Natty bodybuilding, which is greatly expanding this year, is all but on the honors system. Think about how much of a joke it is even in the IOC sports, the only place (other than a few like pro tennis) where testing isn't almost openly merely ceremonial. Then consider how they enforce the out-of-competition bans on top competitors with the onerous and expensive "whereabouts" system, and how impossible it is to do anything of the sort in the ridiculously small and niche and cash-poor sport of bodybuilding, even though it's easily the most affected by long term out of competition drug use of any sport.
Most of these guys ain’t passing an IQ test. Stop acting like passing a legit WADA drug test is so mind blowingly easy, because it’s not.
5”11 185lbs natural 405 bench, 495, squat 675 deadlift. 4:36 mile 💁🏾♂️ not a athlete just a 3rd grade teacher
You use PEDs
Holy shit great work!
Elite numbers. How old are you, and how many years you worked towards those numbers?
Drop your regimen bro plz 🙏
@@JanRiffler 14 years or training, I'm 34.
A 400lb bench in High School is absolutely possible. My friend I knew for years from middle school through high school was a full tilt super hard working farm boy and built like a brick house and just naturally strong as hell. As a senior he was 5'11" and about 240 250lbs of farm yard muscle and put up 400lbs. He of course was a lineman on the football team.
There are people, that through the combination of nature and training, can be as strong as enhanced people naturally. Athleticism is not evenly distributed- some people are freaks. Juice probably improves performance like 10-15%, but theres many natural lifters stronger than people on gear
And was on gear to make the NFL
@@JSK_03 Not at all. Just a strong guy doing hard work from a young age that was built for it. After high school he got married and continued working the family farm.
genetics are mind blowing. I have a friend that deadlifted 700 beltless at 185 when he was 17, just an animal
Outliers, but they do give baseline a thought
I know I am being "that guy" but that photo on the left for Grimek is George Eiferman
p.s. Great video as always.
p.p.s Looking ace man. Lean and broad!
It’s ok John I don’t think your comment upset him!
@@rubberducky6159 Haha yeah, I definitely had an attack of a "this is a needless nitpick...quick...say something nice."
Haven't even got to that part of the video yet, but I already know it's that photo of George Eiferman on the beach that has been bizarrely mislabeled as John Grimek for years for some reason despite them only looking vaguely alike.
I know these videos are a lot of work, but I do wait in anticipation for them. Thank you for your content
I’m 46 years old and have been consistently lifting since the age of 16 when I started weight training for high school sports. In over 30 years of training , I’ve set countless PRs and have seen my body weight increase from around 175 lbs to 240 lbs while maintaining a healthy body fat percentage. Also, I’m a natural lifter. I don’t have anything against anyone who uses PEDs or TRT under the care of a physician. I just decided that wasn’t the route for me. I’ve never competed or had any desire to compete. I feel like my competition is against myself. At 46, I’m stronger on the big 3 lifts than I have ever been, and my goal is to maintain that for as long as possible through natural training means. I realize Father Time will eventually catch up with me, but I feel like there’s no reason, barring injury, that I can’t maintain a significant level of strength into my 50s and beyond. I am dedicated to maintaining flexibility and still perform ATG squats on a weekly basis. To sum it up, I agree with much of what you said in this video. I’m not trying to brag, but I outlift many men in my gym who are 20 years my junior, mainly because I have been consistent for many years with training and my diet, and I’ve never been afraid of hard work. Oh, and I acknowledge that I was lucky in the genetics lottery.
Hi Guys I'm a 5ft 6 54 year old NATTY Powerlifter.
Training since I was 17yrs old. My Best lifts are 462lbs- 320lbs -485lbs single ply @148lbs I know these aren't very impressive numbers , but I enjoy competing with myself.The more time passes the more I realise that this is NOT an exact science ! There are so many ascending and descending factors that Influence my performance..
What I have learned , is DON'T feel you have to stick to the program exactly - to listen to your body & don't be too proud to switch to the occasional light easy workout , If your CNS tells you to
Good luck ...... Remember some times Less IS More!
I've been a natty lifter my whole life. I was sub 20% bodyfat at 6 foot 250lbs Bodyweight and conventional Deadlift 700lbs Beltless my first ever powerlifting meet, 560lbs Raw Squat ass to grass nothing on knees, 405lbs Bench Press in the gym 350lbs in a meet, 480lb Front Squat in sleeves, 600lb Squat in sleeves in the gym, 715lbs Conventional Deadlift in the gym. Gained Bodyweight and got to around 20% bodyfat. Squatted 615lbs back squat, 450lbs Bench Press, 750lb Beltless Conventional Deadlift for 2 reps, 315lbs Seated Military Press, 385lb Incline Bench Press, 515lbs Front Squat in sleeves, 675lbs Snatch Grip Deadlift. These numbers are something most natties or steroid users don't hit especially not being obese and being tall long limbed. I knew natties can't do what steroid lifters do. But I thought we can come close. I just focused on getting better and even using my steroid inspirations to get close and aspire for something even if I knew I wouldn't achieve it. I ended up getting better and I also surpassed what I thought possible. I'm still making progress to this day ups and downs and injured. 18 plus years natural. I have more left naturally. Even if I peak in strength I can find something else to improve naturally.
A hobby like any other.
Awesome numbers, we are practically same height and weight wise and those numbers are pretty much the numbers I aspire to achieve naturally. Did you follow any specific programs, had a coach or simply learned to train by yourself through trial and error?
@@braisedtoast9002 Lifestyle for me. Passion. That is a hobby
@@maticsimonic9673 I am self coached this whole time. Still self coached. I'm an online coach.
@@talder123 Good to know. I just started training with Sheiko gold app and I want to see how will it go but I might ask for some coaching in the future if you’ll be willing 🙂. If you’ll be willing and if it’s not too much to ask how much do you charge?
You’re getting very creative with these ideas, keep it up
You can bring out all these fun, cool, and interesting videos, but we won't forget about the pull-ups transgression Bromley
There are better exercises, you just got some weird fetish for calisthenics
i lifted 8 beers last night. thats 8 solid sets for my arms, my arms are the size of jay cutlers now.
Muscles:Mostly water.Beer:Mostly water.What gyms don't want you to know.
@@lazur1 yep..lol
Marvin Eder in the photo to the right, yes? Absolutely one of the strongest pound for pound guys ever imo. Likely a natty too. Though that's not guaranteed as I think anabolic steroids were invented around his time (but were not widely available yet).
not natty
Eder, b10/22/31, in the only photo@3:52. Turned16 late'47, & 19in'50. Chance of drug use is absurd. Even US Olympic lifters didn't know "roids" existed til '54, & it's just testosterone. There's no commercial production of steroids, (Dianabol), 'til '58. Pros@York got it a couple yrs before that, in limited quantities.
@@saleemisgodIt's highly likely that he was natural. Plus if you look into him he hated the idea of steroids even existing. Even decades after he quit lifting he called them a disease.
Growing up with a dad whos a farmer and seeing other farmers and manual laborers I know that people can be way stronger than one thinks.
At 75kg bw my dad was really strong and with an endurance that makes you question things.
In later years he asked my sisters husband whos been training 30 years in the gym for some help. My dad just shook his head ”I thought he would be strong and able to help..”
Ive helped my dad with things that for the two of us was almost impossible to just tohear he had done it himself previously!
A farmer friend of my dad did a one arm pullup once at 55 years old, never been in a gym..
Then we have those old guys who worked in the logging industry in their youth who at 80 outworked us 20 year olds..
Or the uncle of a workmate who at 92 dug 100m of ditch in 30 deg C heat while the 30 year olds sat discussing how to do it..
People are capable of much more than one can think. Its just that you need to put in the effort..
Really appreciate Bromley’s approach to the value of developing a skill. That creates good community.
Vince Gironda looked amazing
9:34 We got pics of OG muscle mommy's before GTA 6
The story: Grimek tried the stuff, got no effect, & stopped. My perception: In post-competition Grimek photos from York's exercise instruction booklets, Grimek's more muscular than he was in his competitive prime.
Mr. Rigoulot was also a French resistance member in WW2. He purportedly bent the bars of his holding cell the first time he was captured and was able to escape. Legend.
Dave tate says aas gives a 10% boost, I tend to agree for most people. However I think there’s some people who are hyper responders that get a larger boost. My buddy went from a 300-425 bench in 4 weeks on 300 tren, which is absolutely insane. Most guys will Probly get a 20-30 pound increase in that time
10-20"% boost
Yea and some hardly any boost except for shoulder pimples. I’ve seen young guys clearly blasting gear 150 pounds boilers all over their delts and biceps. Only noticeable muscle they have are slightly capped delts.
My first cycle of test 500/week. I went from 200-230. My bench went from 225x5 to 275x5 in about 4 months was eating alot. I’d say that’s pretty average for most guys
I can’t imagine taking tren to boost my 300 bench. Absolute idiocy, to destroy your health for a bench that while is impressive, is just pretty good when comparing to the top powerlifters who are having success.
I feel we also have to account for the time we live in. I believe our natural strength Is way lower then the past Genetically. I.E before we became " Urbanized" . When we all lived on farms and homesteaders, hunted, we were way stronger then now. Just how I feel no Proof.
@@stevenlake5278This is just nostalgia speaking. We have footage of what the average person looked like all the way back to maybe 1880 or so.
The average farmer was not jacked whatsoever. Sure, maybe in better shape than today's office workers who don't exercise, but not in better shape than any serious lifters. I also don't think they had somehow magically higher strength/muscle potential back then. No more than someone today with the same manual labor background.
Geoffrey Verity Schofield is a good example I think. Massive base of work capacity from his days as a distance runner, similar to what a manual laborer might have. That allowed him to do more work, and grow bigger.
That's as possible today as it was 100 years ago. Likely more because we're richer, can afford more food/protein, have creatine, work less/recover more, have more free time to train, access to better equipment and training information etc.
Another in-depth, well-reasoned and presented video. Thanks, Bromley!
Arnold made almost everyone in my generation want to lift at least a little bit. I was born in 1971 and Arnold changed everything, especially once he went into the movies. He's the reason no one accepts superheroes that aren't muscular and lean. Most action stars had to step up and lift. The two biggest and most impactful stars on American action movies were Arnold and Bruce Lee. Before them, action stars looked like big guys who could throw some movie punches. After Arnold and Bruce Lee, if you weren't buff in and in shape and able to do martial arts, you weren't that impressive.
@@azulsimmons1040 for me, it started with Steve Reeves. Black and White TV 📺 in those days
I've used Goerner's program. Possible the most satisfying program ive ever used. Only downside is it's time consuming
Could you explain his routine please
@chandansimms9167 sure.
Day 1
Snatch for doubles till you hit near limit
Clean and jerk for singles
Continental Clean for a few few more singles
Barbell curl for triples
Day 2
1-arm kettlebell curl and press for doubles
Clean and military press for triples
One arm kettlebell swings for doubles
Deadlift for triples
Day 3
Rest
Day 4
1-arm kettlebell curl and press (same as day 2)
1 arm snatch
1 arm clean and jerk
1 hand deadlift
Squat for sets of 6
Day 5
Clean&Press same as Day 2
One arm kettlebell swings same as Day 2
Muscle snatch with kettlebells higher reps
Grip work
Day 6
Kettlebell curl and press
Snatch
Clean&jerk
Front squats
Barbell curl
@@chandansimms9167 look up the tight tan slacks of deszos ban. It's a blog. An amazing resource
@@jima6545 thanksss
"If an actual doctor in 1954 didnt know.."
Cmon, the bros always knows before the science based community.
Goddammit you got me there
Always the best channel with the most logical arguments delivered in an enjoyable format. Great work!
Bodybuilders were not on steroids until about 1960 onwards.
I would bet that's the case. Dbol hit the scenes in 58 and that seemed to blow up the powder keg. Disposable syringes didn't even exist until the mid 50s... I just don't see anyone not part of a state sponsored team getting regular injections from a doc before then
I’ve been able to naturally take my wrist curl to half my body weight in one hand with a coke can sized fat grip for 8 sets of 1-4 reps.
Training natty is awesome. Key is to use the same weight for many months before progressing.
Most people, natty or not, never reach anywhere near their limits for any number of factors. I am 49 and I am in PR territory on the bench. If I had pushed to my potential when I was younger I don't think my strength peak would be at 49. But the point is at 49 there is still room for me to progress closer to my potential.
A bit semantic but “I love to win” or “I play to win” are completely valid mindsets. “I only play if I know I will win” are shit heads.
Awesome - learned perspectives that I didn't consider before. Great vid, Brom.
Dude. You make all the Breaking Bad references you want.
Best. Series. Ever.
Yeah, guys weren’t using anabolic steroids before the 1930s, but we know from the Tour de France that guys were using things like strychnine and cocaine even in the early 1900s. I’ve never used any drugs, but I would imagine that cocaine probably has a pretty good ergogenic effect.
awesome video.
i would like to say, however, i think the greatest goal of all for not caring how others do compared to you, not being worried about this, not wanting to do steroids or anything like that, is to be your best self. to be healthy.
then you don't want to be
Bromley I don't know if you've done a video on it yet but I think it would be sick to do a video for blue collar lifters the Mark felix video briefly touched on it and it got me hyped!
Stopped paying close attention when you went off on a tangent, and perked up when I suddenly heard "Riddle me this". lollll
It's crazy that people think of 400 lb bench press for a high schooler isn't possible.
For me I think the bench Natty limit for 99.9999% of humans is 550-600lbs. There may be some one in a billion talents that can do more but I don't think it's going much further than that.
I’m close to or at the natty limit for a 100kg 5’8” lifetime natural 60 year old bench presser. I’m currently benching 195kg looking to get 200kg soon.
What training program are you using?!
60yo what the fuck lmaooo
What the fuck
Crazy good!
That's incredible and inspiring, congratulations
At 20:36 to the The End, the real message starts. ****Young guys, new lifters, hard gainers, watch that twice.**** Hail Brom
The natty limit is extremely high! People may not want to believe that but it is definitely true. Sucks when your own limit is much below that (real or perceived). Nice video!
Early on they did more pulls off the floor and overhead lifting. It resulted in better/stronger physiques for the average lifter. No big mystery really. John Grimek never did triceps extensions. The press and pullover took care of everything. Nobody wants to hear that today.
Yep, people see machines+cables and free weights are equal for “hypertrophy” in short studies. But what about strength? And what about the correlation between building immense strength that then translates into size? They never mention that
I’m a skinny 165lb dude who pulled 550 my senior year of hs. Training has evolved and people are only getting stronger.
I’m tired just watching you talk! As soon as I recover I’m going out to my garage and lifting something heavy!
You need 1 million subs!!!
the limit is for sure higher than most think, everyone i talk to that goes to a gym semi frequently is seemingly obsessed with having comfortable workouts instead of actually doing more
My take from the video is steroids aren’t really moving the possible strength cap up as much as just helping people short cut the way there. The limiting factor is probably tendons/ligaments/skeletal structure and not so much being a absolutely mass god
I tend to agree. Durability is huge; average ass genetics can do a lot if it can survive the meat grinder, but extremely talented people have fallen short because they can't sustain the work.
“If this isn’t a sign to close the goddamn pubmed browser and go get your fucking hands dirty; I don’t know what is” - perfectly said and amazing video. As Bugenhagen would say “thhhhhank you faaahh beeyung ah friiiiind” 💪
Just competed in my first meet at 46 and used base strength AI for prep. I used the bullmastiff program and had a great meet! 9 for 9 and a 1205lb total at 192lb body weight. Trying 70’s powerlifter for my next meet
The most eye opening natty lifter for me was prolly FreakieD, who you've talked with on your channel, who has a 550 lb bench press. I didn't necessarily believe in a natty limit, but in my head it was like late 400s for bench before that.
Jesus Varela "Bilbo" is a spanish benchpresser that lifted 240 kg natural. You can check him out because he has an original program based in high rep ranges
"late 400's" my brother we are talking about weights, not centuries 😁 j/k should be "high 400's" all in good fun, my friend 😉
I started power lifting at age 20 and did some bodybuilding training also , I dead lifted 300kg at age 28 and again at age 40, what used to get to me was when people would assume I was on drugs, never tried it wasn't interested, hard training and very good genetics, I'm 62 now still training to keep fit and strong I don't deadlift or squat anymore but can do all other exercises, the good old days and boy do they pass quickly 😊
We don't know. I don't know, you don't know, because there is little to no incentive to delve into any form of research surrounding this question.
There is no natty limit. There are so many freaks out there that don’t even lift or never make a good training run to get their numbers up. What we see is only the tip of the genetic iceberg so to speak.
I had a friend in the marines that benched 415 when he was 16 (at about 165). Unfortunately he was a heroin addict and never got clean enough to make a good run at world records. I once saw him get back in the gym after a 6 month heroin binge. He was weighing about 150 because he lost so much mass. He hit 365 on bench that first day back in the gym. His elbows were wider than my knees, he could’ve done 600 with a few good years of training and more mass.
Once an elite middle distance runner started training with me. In his first month he ATG pause squatted 400 pounds at 155 body weight, literally embarrassing me with my years of dedicated training. He died in a hit and run about a month after that. He too could have set world records within a few years I’m sure.
Even the lower-tier IPF lifters are a lot stronger than most steroid users and there are 100% some true natties there. People are way, way too pessimistic about the level of strength that is achievable natty.
How am I supposed to be motivated by the knowledge that there are people so much more gifted than me that they achieve superior results without testicles, steroids, a gym, knowledge of training and nutrition. I would rather cry and quit sports
Many people feel that way. Solution? Don't even engage with that thought. Forget the fitfluencer, gymtok, brain rot and be the best *you* can be
Beta mindset.
Fun fact the image of the man carrying the horse he was carrying a war horse and it got injured so he carried it to rescue in battle.
Bro literally described me in a nutshell
16:15
A good equivalent to what he's saying is look at Men's gymnastics in the Olympics you know damn well none of those guys are on steroids but yet they are jacked as hell
In Julius Maddox's own words, he said he went on TRT after hitting 600 lbs on bench. Considering he's 800 lbs capable now, I believe that was his natural top end.
I have a cousin who power lifts tested. This year he broke the wrpf national bench press record at 556 lbs.
Y'all don't have to believe me but while being 100% natty in under 2 year of lifting ever in my life in my early 30s I have already done 195lb over head for a 3 reps, 445lb high bar squat for 4, 495lb conventional deadlift for one, and 250lb standard grip bench for 4. I then hurt my rotator cuffs. 🤦 Rip helps to just be a big guy. These numbers get way less impressive when I say I'm 300lbs lol got that fat boy strength. Once I'm back I'm gunning for 600s in the squat and deadlift, and 200s for over head and 300s for bench.
@@moff3tt yea those aren't unbelievable numbers, I'm at 170 bw and close to those.
@@snowsanta7 yeah they really aren't but they're still higher than many people get. They came from just being very consistent. I definitely don't have my nutrition or rest dialed in, but I was showing up 3-4 times a week and pushed every workout and the numbers kept coming. I didn't stop because the numbers weren't going up just injury which was definitely a form issue. Today is my first day back. Hopefully gonna go from a decent lifter to a good one next year still natty.
maybe being a big guy helps but those numbers are achievable for everyone within 2 years you simply did things right
@@EvilDoer839 thanks. My first year consisted up messing around at planet fitness too 😂
Not knocking you but, those numbers aren't wild. Especially bench and OHP. I'm 180lbs and bench 315 for 4 and OHP 200x1.
Seriously, thanks for straightening the kids out
All the old school nattys with size were short...
It still kind of is the case today. It's a lot easier to get jacked when you're shorter.
No mention of Mark Henry in a natty vid??
No, because he isnt. You guys need a reality check
@@J.c410. Agreed. His lifts were about bang on the money for early 90’s ped cycles. Something changed later on when it went mental right up to 501kg. And next year that may be 520kg
One of my engineering professors said “yes there’s multiple ways to learn and theoretically yes they should all get you to the same results, but if there’s time tested and proven methods why risk it on the new and fancy way to learn. Do it by the book, there’s nothing wrong with the book.” He was talking about engineering but whole time he was COOKING about lifting
But there is no accepted system, worse still most steroid users claim they don’t use. A truely weird sport/ pastime based on deception
This is a very timely video. I think the biggest pitfall early natty lifters fall into is too much self comparison. To untested lifters or to natty lifters who've put up exponential more time into lifting. I recently had that paradigm shift, that comparing myself to lifters who've put in a decade or even two decades of lifting while I have barely three years of consistent good training is senseless. And you wouldn't do that in any other avenue of life, so why lifting? As a young natty lifter, just put your head down, train smart and train hard, eat well, sleep well and do that consistently for at least a decade before you can even start talking about a genetic limit for you.
Very interesting analysis. I always said in strength sports it’s roughly ~10% difference. As an Olympic Lifter in my sport it’s a little murky as yes it’s tested and restricted however cheating is robust. In O lifting however cheaters are subjected to testing and their enhanced potential is affected by the conditions of the sport. With O lifters the ones that are natural vs known cheats the difference is about 10% (i.e. heaviest CJ by a natural heavyweight 109kg Wes Kitts is 223 and the heaviest (enhanced)ever by Zakharevich is 250.5 at 110kg. Powerlifting comparison is even better when you compare a restricted vs non restricted federations where enhanced are given the opportunity to demonstrate full potential, and the difference is ~12% as per this video analysis. Where I do think enhancing truly is dramatic is bodybuilding 220 lean vs 260 lean at same height is a world of difference, 550 lb vs 600 lb in weight moved not as much.
Im a simple man. I see a Bromley video, I watch a Bromley video
Asking too many questions just lift until you look like broly, simple.
Yes been waiting for this video 💪
Inb4 the “natties can’t bench 405” comments
I can and do quite regularly.
my bros benched 205 after 2 years of mediocre training and they are still going up, I would be surprised if they couldn't reach it by 2026
@@kreidemadchen7291 you will. I went from 140lbs at 17 and have been around 90kg (198lbs) since 35 till about 50. Over the last ten years I have force fed up to as much as 16stone or 102kg/ 224lbs. I can’t get heavier without getting fat. So I really need a 2.5 x body weight bench to hit my goal of 5 plates (220kg/485lbs) before 65. I really do hope my balls keep working.
I'm 44, never trained until I was 41. 3 years in and I don't wonder "what if I used steroids" I wonder, "what if I started at 15?"
3:51 you are 200% correct.
I wish we had USADA tested strongman events.
That'd be boring
For lighter lifters, ×2 bw bench, and ×3 bw squat and deadlift are attainable. Very likely Hepburn was natural. Pre 1950s lifters are most likely natural.
Long term goal is 2x bench I'll be content with life when I get it. Currently at 1.4x.
@snowsanta7 in my mid 20s I hit 500 squat, 265 bench, 475 deadlift, 225 press, and 185 curl. At 170. I'm 51 now, trying to get those lifts and bodyweight back
I don't know.
I think a two times body weight bench press is quite Elite.
I've only ever known a few people who could bench twice their body weight.
My best is 2.3 times body weight
@logicisdead9871 my lifting partner hit 370 bench at 165 bw at the Keystone games in 1995. Definitely drug free, he could barely afford protein powder lol. It's definitely elite, but elite is possible natty if you put in the work
@@jima6545 Man at 51 its frikkin awesome, you're an inspiration, I'm at 180 and my bench is 255 and 155x3 OHP at 21yo, I'm tryna get your dad strength for sure.
I believe it proves, that we are all different in so many ways with so many factors, somebody needs juice to deadlift 400 lbs, others able to benchpress it naturally. I think, we just have to stop focusing on the numbers, in non competitive lifting I mean.
Wait Brad Castleberry’s not natural and his lifts weren’t real
I knew a guy, I will call him Allen. I met him in the gym where I was trying to transform my string bean body. So this guy was built, very muscular in a balanced way, so much so that I thought he was a pro bodybuilder. He would do a couple of sets of curls, and a couple sets of pull downs, do a double bicep in the mirror and go home. I got to know him and he was into hockey and was hoping to make it to the NHL, so he was either playing or in hockey camp or doing drills. He only came to the gym to goof around. He was very nice (a good thing for all of us). Yes he trained, he was an athlete, but just had a fantastic natural physic.
theres something in the food these days bro.
or something taken out
Lots of lean meats, rice, fish, potatoes
such good videos recently.
The constantly-changing thumbnails and video titles are not a good look.
I haven’t heard anyone say “dat dere celltech” in a decade lol
Great video, Alex! Much more can be achieve naturally than people often realize.
Pete Rubish is an absolute beast, but without gear, I doubt he’d be pulling 800+ lbs.
Running max doses does a lot more than just adding 100 lbs to your deadlift
Based on what? Bob Peoples pulled 710 weighing 185 before steroids were even available, before modern training methods. I guess with tren, some specialty bars and a program he wouldve pulled 1100 at 198? I'm curious what you think is a reasonable guess and what data leads you to settle on that number?
Bob Peoples had insane leverages for the deadlift. My wild guess is that if he used modern training methods and blasted to the moon and stuffed his face, he could deadlift 900-950lbs conv at 198, which is incredibly freaky. His leverages for the deadlift are much more favorable than Pete's IMO.
I don't have scientific data to back up my guesses, but from my observation, most enhanced deadlifters who stop using steroids usually lose well over 100 lbs on their deadlift (or gain when start using). Pete Rubish himself mentioned that people wildly underestimate the amount of size and strength steroids provide. His deadlift went from around 600 to 920 lbs when he started using, and then dropped back to around 630 lbs when he stopped.
I think Pete is a very high responder to gear, and his case might be a bit extreme, but still from what I've seen online and in person, gear in extreme high doses contributes more than people think.
I actually don't think he's a high responder to gear at all. He competed at 245 and was only like 20lbs lighter in 2022 when he locked out a 705 deadlift with his test levels still crashed. That's the point, advantages come in a lot of ways but people think "gear" and settle on that as the most important variable. He was a talented deadlifter more than a high responder, or else his bench and squat would've been mind blowing as well and he would've had the mass of a low tier bodybuilder.
His numbers right after going off don't mean anything. They drop temporarily because A.) your hormones are destroyed and it takes time to bounce back and B.) training gets dialed way down because you know your hormones are crashed. When I went off a few years ago to work on having my son, my lifts dropped below my best natty numbers as a 19 year old. But I was still actively competing so I got to see them spike back up with training and food consumption. Funny enough I hit an all time squat PR almost 2 years off gear because I was eating like an asshole and not riddled with inflammation.
So if Pete wasn't "family man focusing on health and running 40 miles per week", he would be growing back towards his potential, but right now he's a skinny friggin' rail who is still over a 600 pull without really trying.
Food was far superior back then with much higher nutrient content.. even bread was eatable
its possible, i know cause my cousin did it. However, he is suffering from genetic hypergonadism so idk if we should count it. And yes hes suffering cause was norwood infinity at age 16 and they have heart issues at age 30.
This is what fascinates me. How far can we go with nutrition and exercise science?
Idgaf about the journey, I just want to grow very old and also be physically capable of taking care of myself and enjoying those golden years when I do
Agree, before 1950, would have been extremely rare. Probably taking something that would cause more harm then good.
Probably not before 1958 when Dianabol was released. And even then probably very few. Before that the Russian weightlifting team on Testosterone and the American.
Over 25 years of training, been to various gym in different area of my country, met thousands of lifter, i only witnessed less than 3 real genetics phenomenon. One was benching 275 for reps at 16 y.o like nothing at 70kg bdw, doing weighed chins for sets but wasn't interested in lifting. I met a lot of strong people but all were juiced, some admitting it, other being pathetic liars. Genetic phenomenon exist but they're a rarity.
Dang. I just lift for enjoyment health and sanity. I've never thought being on drugs would support that.
Why didn’t you talk about liver king?? The natty god
You didn't notice him at 5:50? Anyhow it's been a year since Liver King got outed and did his confession video.
Instructions Unclear: Bought 10,000 Lottery Tickets
I mean, a lot of insane records, some still not beaten, where done by XIX-early XXth century strongmans, or even earlier.
They where all natty, and quite some did not even trained.
Ohp'd 60kgx5 while weighing in at 62kg. Pretty damn proud of that. I like to think of lifting as a pool of strength to be accessed spiritually, it is why mentality is half the rep. If my caveman ancestors could crush one another with huge stones, then I am just going to do whatever they did.
Somepeople have better strength potential just started lifting weights again enjoy only one day week been bodeyweight manuel work 6ft178 at moment can bench 250lb for reps squat 300lb deadlift 400lb for reps in my forties hope to get 300lb bench for reps 400lb squat 500lb deadlifts
Can row 5km under 20min and have half tank gas left we have different abilities gone try progress slowly to my goals good video
Saxon's Bent Press was an official record, performed in front of judges,and it was "only" 50~70 lbs heavier than other verified personal records of lifters like Harold Ansorge and Thomas Inch.
Official in what? There were no feds. These were exhibitions. There is also an article that's pretty easy to find of Inch saying "yeah, no" about some of his claims
@@AlexanderBromley Official as in confirmed by eye witnesses who were present at the events and, as far as we know, had nothing to gain from lying. I'm not saying there wasn't a lot of bs back then, 3 huge examples being Sandow's light bs system, Maxick's claims that he built himself by literally flexing and Rolon/Pandour talking about "never having touched weights in their lives", but Saxon's Bent Press record is such an unquestionable truth in bronze era books that I find it hard to believe he was lying, Was everyone in on it? Did Saxon pay them all to make him look good? If we were talking about a small group of friends, sure, but these were men from austria, germany, france, england and russia, all with different agendas. Also, the bent press is a support lift, not much of a press, no one is side pressing almost 400lbs, that's for sure.
Everyone doesn't need to be in on it. His 370 was a solo exhibition. How easy to come by were scales that could weight a 370lb bar in the 1800s? Were people in the crowd eager to weigh buckets of sand 15lbs at a time to verify? It's exponentially easier to weigh things today and in 50 strongman shows I haven't seen a single person bring a scale to check.
From Thomas Inch, "This was because at the time it was quite customary for so-called strongmen to outrageously exaggerate their lifts, one 10 stone (140 lb) lifter calmly claiming a Bent Press of 336 lbs. whilst the bell probably weighed only 140 lbs. or so." He went on to describe 2 different instances when he supposedly missed 350, and a special 370 that Inch had made him, then, "A claim was put forward that he had raised 370 lbs. when on the Continent but I am afraid that this lift was not checked properly and could hardly be accepted as a strict record.... At one time the so-called friends of the Saxons claimed that he had... raised over 400 lbs. bent press after commencing with a very much higher weight..... he always gave me to understand that it was much exaggerated to say the least"
So why isn't Inch's skepticism taken into account? Why does everyone accept it as real? The reason is that anything from a long time ago or far far away gets assigned some supernatural quality and we stop asking questions. But the distance between us and history should make for more skepticism, not less.
I tought the thumbnail was one of those star wars drones
Outstanding video!
You can literally keep bulking forever and keep Increasing your squat and bench forever