“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries” - James Madison (Note: this quote appears to be spurious.)
@@drzaius844 They have been bathing in the blood of their enemies for nearly two thousand years, so of course they would. Strangely, their enemies include every other version of Christian than their own.
The majority of the founding fathers wanted separation of church and state Even John Adams who was a very religious christian said: *"the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"*
That's from the Treaty of Tripoli. Adams didn't say it, but he approved it by submitting that treaty with that exact language to the Senate for approval. And the treaty got that approval, so the United States government not being founded on the Christian religion is part of the fundamental law of the land.
@gregoryeatroff8608 It was passed unanimously by Congress, without debate, and signatories of the Declaration of Independence were among the members of Congress seated at the time. Jefferson and Madison also very clearly endorsed a separation of Church and State. I'm not an atheist, and I, too, endorse a secular government.
“Establishment Clause” can be explained as “Separation of Church and State.” “Go Long” can be explained as “Run Downfield for a Catch.” “The Big Bang” can be explained as “The Expansion of the Singularity into the Current Structure of the Universe.”
I have a hard time believing that this guy was very concerned for women in hijabs. Felt like he wanted to complain about Christian persecution but didn’t have any good examples
A friend of mine, who is an Anglican priest believes strongly in the importance of the separation of church and state. His reason is different from mine, as he is more concerned with the possibility or likelihood that a government might want to change the church's principles because they are in direct conflict with government policy. He wants to protect the church from the government, while I am more concerned with protecting the individual from religious ideals promoted by the government.
I have a friend like that too or used to. He believes it is a line to prevent government encroachment. Not surprisingly, he doesn't feel so strongly about religious overeach. What is mine is mine and what's your is mine if it can be claimed for God.
Lucky that the church of England is non militant. In the uk the king is head of the government, head of the armed forces, and head of the Anglican Church.
Secular Rarity and Cross Examiner are a really really great combo of hosts. Super friendly and approachable, but no nonsense permitted! Delightful listen with these two on together.
@@delbomb3131 he's called a number of times under different pseudonyms but he's usually incredibly difficult, almost willfully obtuse and kind of poodle
Is this caller Xeno from Japan? I can't tell them apart in side by side comparison. Just asking, because Xeno was banned and i'm no fan of [insert explative, plural] dodging bans.
You have to remember these are the same idiots that think they can see their version of a god or gods in trees and that their inner dialogues are the voice of their version of a god or gods. Not the smartest group.
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311the caller was making a straw man about what was canon when he didn’t even know what canon means lmao, the caller was acting like separation of church and state shouldn’t apply since it wasn’t in the constitution so the comment was saying by that logic since god or a religion isn’t stated either then he was talking out of his ass just being a hypocrite and ur dumbass missed the whole point and made urself look mad goofy and on top of that I came in to explain it to u in simple terms while destroying everything u said 🤡
This is what they miss. Every time, without fail. Whenever they think about religion mixing with government, it's ALWAYS their religion they're imagining.
Look what is happening now in Lebanon, 3 religions occupying seats of power. The government is disfunctional and religious groups step up to support their followers
People always think the first amendment is designed to protect government from religion. No no no... It's designed to protect religion from government. From government-mandated "there can be only one... religion." Because Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and Mennonites are all effectively different religions once the government starts passing laws supporting one of them.
I feel like they're just paranoid that it's going to be used to ban religion, even though it literally protects religions. As if there are enough atheists to outnumber and overpower all the theists in this country.
The government has no business intervening in people's personal life. It's like they trying to take our guns. That's violation of our right to bear arms
I really don't understand the american civic fetish. Separation of religion and government is a necessity, no matter what some long dead people thought.
Which is EXACTLY why it was put in the First Amendment, because the Founding Fathers came here to get away from the Church being Part of the Government. Yet the Talibangelicals want to undo all of that and turn us into Iran.
In the 1950s President Eisenhower invited Billy Graham to the Whitehouse. It was a way for the US to be different from communist atheist Soviet Union. Evangelicals saw the opportunity for access to politicians. They never left. To be fair Billy Graham tried to be politically neutral and there are also religious figures on the left.
I do think that it's important we remember the principles our country was founded upon. Should we consider this foundation unstable, we are of course free to change it, but I don't know if we would still qualify as "America."
@@jamesparson But political leanings of any kind are more of a problem for religion than an advantage. They remind us that religious beliefs are essentially irrational, and often mutually contradictory, therefore far too capricious to be used as a basis for governance. This was already true in the ancient world, and is even more evident today. On all objective metrics of quality of life, religious nations score near the very bottom, exceeded only by totalitarian regimes. Secular nations, where the secular government is freely chosen by the governed, score at the very top.
It’s about power. The power to force people to be Christian. They used to not care because they controlled the social fabric of our society. Now they do not so they need the state to force their bible on the our children.
Well, not really, that's not necessarily in agreement with that, because it doesn't take into account other sayings where it is stated directly that they think their god owns governments. In a chapter named "Romans:" "The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong." Or in a chapter named "Corinthians": 1 Corinthians 6:19: “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?” 1 Corinthians 7:23: “You were bought with a price.” 1 Timothy 6:7: “We have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either.” So there you have, it and why atheists are so adament about separation of church and state...because Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, in their own religious way, that their god owns governments, that people can't own their own bodies, and that you were bought with a price... I just can't with that, not sorry. At some point people need to understand that it might come to blows some day in Civil War...and I hope not....but that there are people who really believe that people don't own their bodies, that they have rights to the government more than others to be in congruence with their religions, and that people were literally bought. Nope, and nope.
For the same reason that Christians don't want atheist leading their church sermons. And I know I'm going to hear that reference to "in God we trust" on the dollar bill, that wasn't there originally. It was added as the proverbial middle finger to the "godless communist" during the Red Scare.
"In god we trust" actually predates the 1950s but you are correct in that it was meant to separate the US from the "commies" at that time. It should be removed from US currency, as well as, "under god," in the Pledge.
Same with "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. This was added after the fact in 1954 by the Eisenhower administration to push against "godless" communists.
It wasn't really a middle finger. Basically the soviets were living rent free in the US' head, and the US without any pressure acknowledged that by subverted its own principles I don't think the Soviets gave a particular fack about what was on the currency, or the pedge of allegiance that children are forced to recite daily. If they thought about it at all they probably gave a smirk over the whole silly episode
@@bestbehave Even more insane: Being forced to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of free speech rights - both silencing and compelling speech are considered to be violations of free speech.
It's not just atheists that want it. People should have the right to believe whatever they believe without government interference. The only way to truly accomplish that is by separating them. _""The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries" - "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"_ James Madison
Why is it that these theists just cant seem to grasp that the founding fathers DID NOT write a religiously based Constitutional document? Like holy shit.....just because the phrase "separation of church and state" is not explicitly stated does NOT mean that that is not the SPIRIT and/or intent in which it was written. I'm starting to think these idiots know this and they're just trying to weasel in religious language into a document they know full well does not have it.
Man, Cross Examiner, you're new on my radar but I have to say, I think you're the best host I've heard so far on this show when it comes to directing calls, making sure they stay on track but are also a fair back-and-forth. Every call I've heard you on has felt productive.
Please don't use Iran as an example. The US is responsible for modern day Iran. We supported the Shah and condoned his brutal dictatorship. When he was overthrown the people of Iran set up a democracy and elected a President. We interfered and overthrew their government and re-installed the Shah. This gave way to Muslim influence on the revolution that removed the Shah the second time. Iran would be a much better country if the US and UK would stop interfering in the middle east. Western nations do the most affect in creating fundamentalists. People who have stable lives slowly become non believers.
Jefferson was in France while the constitution was written and discussed. After hearing of its adoption Jefferson was alarmed about the exclusion of various explicit liberties and restrictions. In response he wrote the first ten amendments, known as the Bill of Rights. So while Jefferson didn’t write or even vote on the constitution he did write the “separation of church and state “ into the constitution via the first amendment.
As some from outside America I find it weird when some Americans care more about whether something is Constitutional or not rather than whether it is ethical or good.
It's because the Constitution is the basic framework of the governance of the country. A lot of other countries have it. I think the USA was unique in being the first country to have a written constitution. Before the USA, there were other types of such frameworks, the most notable being the Magna Carta.
@queuecee the concept of a constitution has been around since ancient times. It seems the U.S. constitution is the oldest written constitution currently in force.
The debate over whether a law or policy is morally good or not often get conflated with the issue of whether or not it is constitutional in countries where laws or policies can be legally challenged on constitutional grounds, particularly those related to human rights. This has been true in the States for some time, but it is also increasingly true in Canada. Since the Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into force in 1982 it has been possible to challenge laws on human rights grounds.
Separation of Church and State protects your church as much as it protects the state. It keeps the government from coming into your church and telling you how to worship.
Yup, but of course my old church loved to say "the wall is to keep the government out of the church, but not the church out of the government." But then again, my old church was almost as bad as Greg Locke's church.
From 1517 until 1789 when France kicked the Church out of Governance there were so many wars about religion it became necessary for someone (Our founders and the French Revolution) to tell religious authorities to "mind your own damn business. "That is why we need the separation of Church and State. Religious affiliation is divisive, not binding.
No matter a person’s religious beliefs, everyone should support the separation. The separation is what gives people the freedom to worship the way they want. Citizens need to be aware that political power coupled with religion will quickly go to horrible places.
I forget how awesome Cross Examiner is as a host. ALSO it bears mentioning. The HIJAB is the head covering that covers the hair & neck but keeps the face open. The NIQAB is the same but veils all the face but the eyes. Then the BURKA is the full-body "beekeeper suit".
I am a 65 y/o Catholic, independent, pro-choice, male. I would insist on separation of church and state. One merely needs to look at history to see what evil is done when church and state are not separated. Or look at a modern country, like Iran.
You have a "belief" called "atheism." You have a God bias. There's ZERO EVIDENCE for a Godless world. Not one atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. Atheists are sorry people that don't want God to exist, so they ignore all the facts and they never do any research. God has given them +/- 70 yrs on this earth to accept or reject Jesus. Tik-Toc.
This is the second video I watch with The Cross Examiner as a host and I've absolutely fallen in love with his form of communication and education ♥️ Hope to see him more often!
It also mocks the fact that this country is a secular democratic republic. Government should be for all, not for the purpose of advancing the religions that called a deity "god". If that principle is adopted, then we should also have on our money, "In Allah, Buddha, Satan, Yahweh, Jesus, and all other named deities humans have ever invented, we trust". Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So does "In god we trust". It's propaganda, attempts to include all Americans under it, and is presumptuous at best. 🎉
Other phrases that don’t appear in the text: - Separation of powers - Checks & balances - Rule of law - Freedom of religion - Presumption of innocence - that the Bill of Rights applies to the states too - Electoral college - Double jeopardy - Executive privilege - Veto - Subject-matter jurisdiction - Personal jurisdiction - et cetera
Some people are just not smart to realise that things may be couched in different terms but mean the same thing. English comprehension is not a given for all English speakers.
the purpose of theistic religion has always been for social control. granting that additional bonus of power to the state would exacerbate the issues it already causes.
Also, you don't need a book thousands of years old to tell us to not kill another human being. And we shouldn't need some fictional god telling us to not own other people, but we get so many callers trying to "defend" slavery.
In TN and most southern states, you cant buy alcohol on Sundays or even work most the time. Unless it’s McDonald’s… THEY NEED their chicken nuggets. THEY need to scream at service workers after church. Speaking from experience with those people.
But the Constitution DOES contain the phrase "anno Domini." That PROVE the Constitution sprang right out if the Bible! I'm sure Lauren Boebert would agree.
@@Suprahampton Exactly my point! All of the important founding documents support neutrality between religion and government. Protecting Free Exercise is the closest the Constitution comes to supporting religion. Anyone who takes the presence of 'anno Domini' as evidence of a Biblical inspiration for the Constitution --- which some Reconstructionists do!!--- is seriously scraping through the bottom of the barrel.
@@gmansard641 especially since the guys who created that calendar got the start date wrong anyway, the historical Jesus (if he existed) was born around 5 years earlier than they thought he was. I think we should go back to AUC and date our years from the founding of Rome. After all, pretty much everything the West is, it owes to the Romans.
@@damianjblack Yes, it was Dionysius Exiguus in the mid 500s who came up with the Incarnation Calendar. He didn't base it on historic records, his inspiration was the enigmatic "Prophecy of the 70 Weeks" from the Book of Daniel. Somehow he concluded that "weeks" really meant "years" and that the Temple would be destroyed 70 years after Christ's birth. He actually got it kind of close.
It's a shame the US still struggles with basic concepts figured out in Europe more than a hundred years ago. Religion belongs in history with all the religious wars.
@@Steve-sg3uz Alas for you not only are those numbers still dwarfed by all those killed for being the wrong religion those alleged leaders didn't do so for atheism or to lead atheism.
@@Steve-sg3uz Nice false dichotomy! There are religious wars and there are secular wars, there have been no atheist wars. Without religion there would be no religious wars, and thus overall less war - This is good. Without atheism there would still be religious wars and secular wars, so no change. More religion = more war = more death. Less religion = less war = less death.
What this gentleman is talking about does indeed exist in Quebec. It’s called Bill 21 and it does restrict public employees from wearing religious symbols (crosses, hijab, Sikh head covering, etc).
In the 1970s (?) a meditation group wanted to add it to schools , but was thwarted since it was claimed it was bringing Hindu religion. Of course, this same want to put middle eastern religions in schools.
Grew up in a christian home, church, and school. Lemme tell you how often I was told Separation of Church and State is to protect religions from the government. God over government. It is ridiculous how much christians claim separation of church and state.
The ignorance of so many Christians just floors me. People of faith should be the biggest defenders of separation of church and state. Nobody suffers as much from a theistic government than people of faith.
There is a reason why the separation is a part of the first amendment. A lot of people who came to america where Christians, Puritans, Quakers and Catholics who were fleeing persecution from other christian sects. If the government here was not secular they would have faced the same persecution again.
Puritans, Quakers, and Catholics ARE Christians. And Puritans fled because they weren't allowed to persecute other Protestants. Quakers weren't really persecuted in Protestant countries. Catholics weren't really persecuted in Catholic countries.
No need for Islam. Just another branch of Christianity would suffice. Imagine reaction of all Protestant sects, if government announced that Catholicism is going to be official denomination to be followed? Or vice-versa? Of course every dimwit pushing for theocratisation thinks *his* Church will be in charge.
If this comes up again you might mention that "free will" is not mentioned in the bible. It is a shorthand term derived from certain passages. At least I've not seen that exact phrase in the bible.
James Madison acknowledged that the first amendment was intended to create the wall that Jefferson described: and Madison did write the first amendment.
The concept of the separation of church and state was created to keep government from interfering in religion. The moment you introduce the idea of religion being involved government, government can be involved in religion.
@@Steve-sg3uz More and more people in the US and the rest of the world are becoming less religious. With the exception of theocratic countries and places like North Korea where the religion is a government mandated worship of the leader.
@@Steve-sg3uz "I'm pretty sure Europe is in a far worse economic, per capita, position than the US is" So what? 😀How many people declared bankruptcy due to medical bills in the US? In EU it's ZERO. "they are too woke/liberal" Yeah, we have employees rights protected by the law whilst US is the only country ON THE PLANET with ZERO mandatory paid leave. 😀Like I said: backwarded. Even Afghanistan, Eritrea, or Sudan are better than USofA. 😀 "At least in the US we're imparting mostly Christians." Yeah, 30% of Christians creationists... only in the Murica. In Europe over billion of Christians accepted evolution. 😀Like I said: backwarded. 3rd world country.
@@Steve-sg3uzIn the US christian superstitionism is the greatest exustentislbthreat the country has ever faced. It is turning the country onto a poorly-educated sh1thole.
Can anyone give an example of a State Religion that has respected the rights of non-believers and those of other faiths? Or even dissenters within their own faith?
I think the closest you've got is Anglicanism and that took a lot of political pressure to the point that it's now barely involved in practical politics.
The Mongol Empire had Tengri as its state religion and practised religious tolerance for its subjects and (peaceful) visitors, including Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. However, to date no state with Christianity as its state religion has been so tolerant.
The religious zealots also don’t realize that if political power shifts to another religion, or even different the religion they choose will be considered heresy.
Exactly. Enshrine religion into law? "Sure," say the Christian Nationalists. Then the Buddhists become a majority and the Christians will be screaming, "We didn't mean THAT religion!"
@@robertt9342 They'd end up at war, because the only way Protestants outnumber Catholics is if they're all counted together as a single unit. But once they have "Protestants" in power, all denominations will end up fighting each other, since they aren't really a unit. It would be chaos.
Because if church and state are combined. One religion will want full control over all religions. School was made to learn how to grow with your community. Continue education to make a better person of yourself. Who's God would be chosen as the only God.? Leave it out of school. Religion belongs in churches not schools.
We want separation of church and state because it's our Constitutional right as further explained by many of our Founding Fathers, some of the most important ones and those that wrote the actual effin Constitution. Many of the Founders were Deists, such as Washington, Governeur Morris, Thomas Paine, James Madison and James Monroe. Jefferson and Franklin were arguably Atheists but at least deistic. Even some of the most devout, orthodox believers, such as Sam Adams and John Adams, believed in a secular government. Men whose ideals and actions helped birth our nation, such as John Locke, Roger Williams and Adam Smith, believed in secular government and the separation of church and state.
Comparing "right to keep and bear arms" to "right to own and carry guns" is like comparing "separation of church and state" to "church must be a separate building". I am pretty sure neither is what was intended.
At first it seemed like the caller was going to really get stuck on the whole "seperation of church and state" term, but this turned into a much more productive call than i thought.
The whole idea of church and state from Thomas Jefferson was written to a congregation Of parishioners who wanted protection from another congregation of parishioners who had slightly different religious beliefs to them, so literally the idea existed to solve a religious problem. Not to solve a secular atheist problem. Because the minute you say that there shouldn’t be a separation between church and state, the next rational question is, which church? It’s all well and good to say the Christian church, which Christian church? Christianity has thousands of denominations? So all you are going to do is start another turf war in the Christian world for supremacy in American politics. And we know where that ends. That’s the reason secularism was. Necessary to invent because europe tore itself apart for 1000 years over who was the right kind of Christian under the state. Read a fucking history book.
Without separation of church and state - expect a country like Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan. These countries are rated Least Happy, Least Safe, and with Least Personal Freedom (and rated some of the very topmost "conservative" countries). Tip: look up "the top 10 Most Conservative Countries" and "the top 10 most Liberal Countries" and ask: in which would you like you and your family to live?
Plus if Christians had their way and Church and State became one, you'd be excluding every non-Christian religion and faith from that unification. Unless you made ALL religions and faiths equally unified with the state.
Not only non Christians would be excluded, but also Christian denominations that aren't the state religion. If the protestants are in charge, the Catholics are fucked, and vice versa.
That's what they want, to drive every other religion out of the country. Unification will come when they pass laws that say "oh, and MY version of Christianity or go to jail." They want a theocracy, with an official state religion that will be extremely oppressive.
The funny part is here in the U.S. if we forced people to come down on a specific God belief it would be atheism. Christians are the majority but no distinct denomination numbers greater than atheists and if somehow they pulled off some way to bypass the atheist then they would all be under Catholic rule. Its funny to me that many say Christian as if they all agree on stuff.
We make a religion of the government. Suddenly the pope is the one that casts the deciding vote in the congress and senate. Suddenly the leader of the mormons chooses who the "president" is.
The separation of church and state is a phrase that comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to his friend. Saying that by accepting the religious clause in the first amendment established a wall between church and state. It was a phrase that he created about a document that he wrote. There is another supreme Court opinion call the lemon law meant to keep the government out of religious entanglements and has criteria how to do that.
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation." "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- THE CROSS. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" ~ JOHN ADAMS (1735 - 1826) Second President of the United States "In those parts of the world where learning and science have prevailed, miracles have ceased; but in those parts of it as are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." ~ ETHAN ALLEN (1738 - 1789) American revolutionary, leader of the "Green Mountain Boys" Champion of statehood for Vermont "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." "In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the want of it." ~ BENJAMIN FRANKLIN (1705 - 1790) One of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence “Religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God.” "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own" “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." ~ THOMAS JEFFERSON (1743 - 1826) Third President of the United States (1801-1809); principal author of the Declaration of Independence "The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma." ~ ABRAHAM LINCOLN (1809 - 1865) 16th President of the United States, , 1861 - 1865
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." "What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution." ~ JAMES MADISON (1751 - 1836) American politician and political philosopher; fourth President of the United States "The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion." "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” ~ THOMAS PAINE (1737 - 1809) British pamphleteer, American revolutionary, radical, inventor and intellectual "The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy." ~ GEORGE WASHINGTON (1732 - 1799) First President of the United States of America
_"Man, without God, doesn't know what is good and evil is"_ said Steve who truly believes it is morally good to slaughter infants to punish their parents because he has a tribal war g0d that told him so!
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Certain types of people will always feel that things were better long ago where blacks were not "uppity" and women were put in their place, in the kitchen barefeet and pregnant, with no voting power. And they'll claim this paradise is because of the Bible and Christianity. It certainly was. It was when America was great... for a select group of people. Not so great for others.
Sunglasses in a bank. I wear prescription lenses, and I’ve forgotten my regular glasses at home and only had my prescription sunglasses. Makes filling out paperwork fun, but no sunglasses means no sunglasses.
I heared the trinity was a result of attempts to harmonize the monotheistic jewish faith with its polytheistic roots. Any pointers on how best to begin research into that issue?
@@bazingaburg8264 no, not even close. Jewish theology is not "Binitarian", and the "Holy Ghost" isn't some separate entity. Rather, it's an attempt by 2nd century Christians to shoehorn the idea of "Jesus=God" into a scripture that doesn't support it. It follows the Game of Telephone that can be seen in "gospels", where Jesus becomes more "God" with each reimagining. They also didn't want Jesus to just be a "fragment" of God, but rather, entirely God... This then meant that Christians needed to come up with a way to try up make this hyped up nonsense make sense. In order to do this, (to deify their cult leader), they even went so far as to change the manuscripts to make it sound like this is what the original authors meant. Check out Holy Koolaid's recent vid exploring the evidence that this is the case.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 Some of it was to try to keep monotheism. They had to explain how god, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit fit into monotheism. So Tertullian said there's just one "substance", which is the trinity god, but three persons. This issue caused the Aria controversy in the 4th century that had to be resolved at the Council of Nicea.
Reminds me of the movie the Patriot, where they were choosing up sides for revolution....main character said, "Why should I trade 1 Tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 Tyrants 1 mile away?"
I am an irreligious, agnostic theist; and even as a theist, I favor the separation of Church and State, as should everyone else, for one reason, best elucidated by President Madison in his 1785 Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, where he wrote, "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" That is to say, if there _isn't_ a complete separation of Church and State, then even if your preferred religion is the one favored, that doesn't mean your preferred _denomination_ of that religion will be.
“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries” - James Madison
(Note: this quote appears to be spurious.)
Christians love blood.
@@drzaius844
They have been bathing in the blood of their enemies for nearly two thousand years, so of course they would.
Strangely, their enemies include every other version of Christian than their own.
@@Diviance they drink it every communion.
@@drzaius844
Honestly, with the way so many of them act, Jesus is definitely someone I would call their enemy.
Excellent information right there..
The majority of the founding fathers wanted separation of church and state
Even John Adams who was a very religious christian said:
*"the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"*
I was just going to write that John Adams quote !
The majority of the founding fathers wanted to maintain wealth and power in the hands of a slim minority, f$ck 'em
That's from the Treaty of Tripoli. Adams didn't say it, but he approved it by submitting that treaty with that exact language to the Senate for approval. And the treaty got that approval, so the United States government not being founded on the Christian religion is part of the fundamental law of the land.
@gregoryeatroff8608
It was passed unanimously by Congress, without debate, and signatories of the Declaration of Independence were among the members of Congress seated at the time.
Jefferson and Madison also very clearly endorsed a separation of Church and State.
I'm not an atheist, and I, too, endorse a secular government.
John Adams was a Unitarian....
"In God we Trust" did not exist on US currency until October 1, 1957. It's cold war propaganda.
"Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the same era.
It’s also an American thing. Everyone else’s currency has none of this, I guess only cares about America?
"Bringo" -Dr Bruhle
I mean, how else were we gonna show those godless commies we were better than them?! /s
@@NocturnaluxThere is a growing faction if Christian Nationalists thinking they don't sound like lunacy
“Establishment Clause” can be explained as “Separation of Church and State.”
“Go Long” can be explained as “Run Downfield for a Catch.”
“The Big Bang” can be explained as “The Expansion of the Singularity into the Current Structure of the Universe.”
I have a hard time believing that this guy was very concerned for women in hijabs. Felt like he wanted to complain about Christian persecution but didn’t have any good examples
A friend of mine, who is an Anglican priest believes strongly in the importance of the separation of church and state. His reason is different from mine, as he is more concerned with the possibility or likelihood that a government might want to change the church's principles because they are in direct conflict with government policy. He wants to protect the church from the government, while I am more concerned with protecting the individual from religious ideals promoted by the government.
@@AlDunbar when the church gets in bed with the government it is bad for both the government and the church.
I have a friend like that too or used to. He believes it is a line to prevent government encroachment. Not surprisingly, he doesn't feel so strongly about religious overeach. What is mine is mine and what's your is mine if it can be claimed for God.
Whether intentional or not, whether religion gets involved in government or government gets involved in religion, both are corrupted.
The system works!!!
Lucky that the church of England is non militant. In the uk the king is head of the government, head of the armed forces, and head of the Anglican Church.
Secular Rarity and Cross Examiner are a really really great combo of hosts. Super friendly and approachable, but no nonsense permitted! Delightful listen with these two on together.
I love those 2 💙💜
These hosts handled the topic really well, demonstrating expertise, patience and kindness.
By and large, yes, although I find Secular Rarity to be a bit snarky and over-reactive at times.
Mikey wants to be a victim sooo bad
@@delbomb3131 he's called a number of times under different pseudonyms but he's usually incredibly difficult, almost willfully obtuse and kind of poodle
Is this caller Xeno from Japan? I can't tell them apart in side by side comparison. Just asking, because Xeno was banned and i'm no fan of [insert explative, plural] dodging bans.
God isn’t in the constitution either. Genius. The constitution is essentially a god free document.
Never said he was guy. Now keep on patting your back for taking down that straw, man.😂.
If the founders were crafting a Christian nation, the documents would have been unmistakable.
Riiight. A bunch of theists and desists wanted godless pagans and atheists to run hedonism and foreign invasion all over it.
You have to remember these are the same idiots that think they can see their version of a god or gods in trees and that their inner dialogues are the voice of their version of a god or gods.
Not the smartest group.
@@theflaggedyoutuberii4311the caller was making a straw man about what was canon when he didn’t even know what canon means lmao, the caller was acting like separation of church and state shouldn’t apply since it wasn’t in the constitution so the comment was saying by that logic since god or a religion isn’t stated either then he was talking out of his ass just being a hypocrite and ur dumbass missed the whole point and made urself look mad goofy and on top of that I came in to explain it to u in simple terms while destroying everything u said 🤡
First AE snippet I've watched with The Cross Examiner. He's awesome; logical, intelligent and well informed. Good job guys 👌
This caller did not realize who he was up against. “Oh yeah I’m attorney. Let me quote some cases from 1776” 😅
I love the Cross Examiner, and he hella shines in this one!
He talks a bit too much though. He asks Mikey's opinion and then keeps talking for another couple of minutes multiple times.
It's really simple, do you want a religion that isn't your running the government? Then you want separation of gov and religion.
Yes that’s what they want. Their religion being in charge
This is what they miss. Every time, without fail. Whenever they think about religion mixing with government, it's ALWAYS their religion they're imagining.
Look what is happening now in Lebanon, 3 religions occupying seats of power. The government is disfunctional and religious groups step up to support their followers
People always think the first amendment is designed to protect government from religion. No no no... It's designed to protect religion from government. From government-mandated "there can be only one... religion." Because Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and Mennonites are all effectively different religions once the government starts passing laws supporting one of them.
I feel like they're just paranoid that it's going to be used to ban religion, even though it literally protects religions. As if there are enough atheists to outnumber and overpower all the theists in this country.
I'm Catholic and I want separation of Church and State
I want my religion
@@Wes-x9p
Yes
But don't force it on me or others
The government has no business intervening in people's personal life. It's like they trying to take our guns. That's violation of our right to bear arms
I dig this cross examiner guy.
I'm a little cross with him
yeah hes a cool dude both the host are.
I really don't understand the american civic fetish. Separation of religion and government is a necessity, no matter what some long dead people thought.
Which is EXACTLY why it was put in the First Amendment, because the Founding Fathers came here to get away from the Church being Part of the Government. Yet the Talibangelicals want to undo all of that and turn us into Iran.
In the 1950s President Eisenhower invited Billy Graham to the Whitehouse. It was a way for the US to be different from communist atheist Soviet Union. Evangelicals saw the opportunity for access to politicians. They never left.
To be fair Billy Graham tried to be politically neutral and there are also religious figures on the left.
I do think that it's important we remember the principles our country was founded upon. Should we consider this foundation unstable, we are of course free to change it, but I don't know if we would still qualify as "America."
@@jamesparson
But political leanings of any kind are more of a problem for religion than an advantage.
They remind us that religious beliefs are essentially irrational, and often mutually contradictory, therefore far too capricious to be used as a basis for governance.
This was already true in the ancient world, and is even more evident today. On all objective metrics of quality of life, religious nations score near the very bottom, exceeded only by totalitarian regimes. Secular nations, where the secular government is freely chosen by the governed, score at the very top.
@@jamesparson Yep, that's when they added "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance" and put it on our Money, because of the "Communist Scare"
Well, even though I agree with the AXP folks, I really learned a LOT from this conversation. Thank you! This was a very good discussion!
Why don't christians want separation of church and state, Jesus did. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and render unto the Lord, what is the Lord's.
It’s about power. The power to force people to be Christian. They used to not care because they controlled the social fabric of our society. Now they do not so they need the state to force their bible on the our children.
Because they are feeling that they are losing their privileges and, to many a privileged person, equality feels like oppression.
Because the secular laws that govern the US don't allow them to persecute others.
They see that as a violation of their religious freedom.
Well, not really, that's not necessarily in agreement with that, because it doesn't take into account other sayings where it is stated directly that they think their god owns governments.
In a chapter named "Romans:"
"The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong."
Or in a chapter named "Corinthians":
1 Corinthians 6:19: “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?” 1 Corinthians 7:23: “You were bought with a price.” 1 Timothy 6:7: “We have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either.”
So there you have, it and why atheists are so adament about separation of church and state...because Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, in their own religious way, that their god owns governments, that people can't own their own bodies, and that you were bought with a price...
I just can't with that, not sorry. At some point people need to understand that it might come to blows some day in Civil War...and I hope not....but that there are people who really believe that people don't own their bodies, that they have rights to the government more than others to be in congruence with their religions, and that people were literally bought.
Nope, and nope.
@@joshsheridan9511 and because their religion isn't actually about fairness and equality. it's about power and dominating those around you.
For the same reason that Christians don't want atheist leading their church sermons.
And I know I'm going to hear that reference to "in God we trust" on the dollar bill, that wasn't there originally. It was added as the proverbial middle finger to the "godless communist" during the Red Scare.
"In god we trust" actually predates the 1950s but you are correct in that it was meant to separate the US from the "commies" at that time. It should be removed from US currency, as well as, "under god," in the Pledge.
Same with "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. This was added after the fact in 1954 by the Eisenhower administration to push against "godless" communists.
It wasn't really a middle finger. Basically the soviets were living rent free in the US' head, and the US without any pressure acknowledged that by subverted its own principles
I don't think the Soviets gave a particular fack about what was on the currency, or the pedge of allegiance that children are forced to recite daily. If they thought about it at all they probably gave a smirk over the whole silly episode
@@bestbehave Even more insane: Being forced to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of free speech rights - both silencing and compelling speech are considered to be violations of free speech.
It's not just atheists that want it. People should have the right to believe whatever they believe without government interference. The only way to truly accomplish that is by separating them. _""The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries" - "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"_ James Madison
It's great when this show educates in a simple understandable way why particular assertions by the religious are wrong.
Thanks!
Madison wrote the Constitution and he also touted the "Separation of Church and State".
Why is it that these theists just cant seem to grasp that the founding fathers DID NOT write a religiously based Constitutional document? Like holy shit.....just because the phrase "separation of church and state" is not explicitly stated does NOT mean that that is not the SPIRIT and/or intent in which it was written.
I'm starting to think these idiots know this and they're just trying to weasel in religious language into a document they know full well does not have it.
Gilead by any means necessary seems to be the plan
Agreed.
Man, Cross Examiner, you're new on my radar but I have to say, I think you're the best host I've heard so far on this show when it comes to directing calls, making sure they stay on track but are also a fair back-and-forth. Every call I've heard you on has felt productive.
"The separation of church and state are to keep forever from these shores the constant strife that soaks Europe's soil in blood" James Madison.
"your right to swing your fist ends at the bridge of my nose" and 'your right to practice religion ends at the threshold of my door'
Under god wasn't part of the pledge to the flag until 1953. Theocracy is a very slippery slope. Just look at Iran.
Slippery slope? That's putting it very mildly. It is more like a pit with spikes in it.
Hi. Right now, just look at the U.S.
Please don't use Iran as an example. The US is responsible for modern day Iran. We supported the Shah and condoned his brutal dictatorship. When he was overthrown the people of Iran set up a democracy and elected a President. We interfered and overthrew their government and re-installed the Shah. This gave way to Muslim influence on the revolution that removed the Shah the second time. Iran would be a much better country if the US and UK would stop interfering in the middle east. Western nations do the most affect in creating fundamentalists. People who have stable lives slowly become non believers.
@@lindapendleton9176 Who said it wasn't.
Jefferson was in France while the constitution was written and discussed. After hearing of its adoption Jefferson was alarmed about the exclusion of various explicit liberties and restrictions. In response he wrote the first ten amendments, known as the Bill of Rights. So while Jefferson didn’t write or even vote on the constitution he did write the “separation of church and state “ into the constitution via the first amendment.
As some from outside America I find it weird when some Americans care more about whether something is Constitutional or not rather than whether it is ethical or good.
It's because the Constitution is the basic framework of the governance of the country. A lot of other countries have it. I think the USA was unique in being the first country to have a written constitution.
Before the USA, there were other types of such frameworks, the most notable being the Magna Carta.
@@Steve-sg3uznot using any preferences, why should he answer your question?
@queuecee the concept of a constitution has been around since ancient times. It seems the U.S. constitution is the oldest written constitution currently in force.
The debate over whether a law or policy is morally good or not often get conflated with the issue of whether or not it is constitutional in countries where laws or policies can be legally challenged on constitutional grounds, particularly those related to human rights. This has been true in the States for some time, but it is also increasingly true in Canada. Since the Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into force in 1982 it has been possible to challenge laws on human rights grounds.
@@Steve-sg3uz Not using any preferences, what is "abortion of humans"?
The whole reason we exist is to say no kings especially the ones who say they are appointed by a god.
Bingo. Divine right of kings. When you allow that then anything is a green light from the “god wills it” crowd.
No Gods Or Kings. Only Man. -Andrew Ryan
And yet the US DID have one King. ELVIS!
Separation of Church and State protects your church as much as it protects the state. It keeps the government from coming into your church and telling you how to worship.
Yup, but of course my old church loved to say "the wall is to keep the government out of the church, but not the church out of the government."
But then again, my old church was almost as bad as Greg Locke's church.
From 1517 until 1789 when France kicked the Church out of Governance there were so many wars about religion it became necessary for someone (Our founders and the French Revolution) to tell religious authorities to "mind your own damn business. "That is why we need the separation of Church and State. Religious affiliation is divisive, not binding.
You two did an amazing job explaining everything
Thanks so much!
No matter a person’s religious beliefs, everyone should support the separation. The separation is what gives people the freedom to worship the way they want. Citizens need to be aware that political power coupled with religion will quickly go to horrible places.
I forget how awesome Cross Examiner is as a host.
ALSO it bears mentioning. The HIJAB is the head covering that covers the hair & neck but keeps the face open. The NIQAB is the same but veils all the face but the eyes. Then the BURKA is the full-body "beekeeper suit".
Really informative and interesting! Enjoyed this episode immensely. Thanks
Ooh. This is my first time seeing The Cross Examiner - I’m so impressed with his temperament and cadence! I’m so glad he’s being featured!
Thanks so much for your kind words!
Thomas Payne left Britain to warn America against religion.
The joke being that the US is very religious while the UK has an established church, but Christians are in the minority.
I am a 65 y/o Catholic, independent, pro-choice, male. I would insist on separation of church and state. One merely needs to look at history to see what evil is done when church and state are not separated. Or look at a modern country, like Iran.
I figure if religious believers can wear a cross or star of david necklace, then i can wear my "A" necklace to proclaim my unbelief.😊
You have a "belief" called "atheism." You have a God bias. There's ZERO EVIDENCE for a Godless world. Not one atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. Atheists are sorry people that don't want God to exist, so they ignore all the facts and they never do any research. God has given them +/- 70 yrs on this earth to accept or reject Jesus. Tik-Toc.
@@EndingTheParty
Neppy, lying about atheists still doesn't make your beliefs true by default
Americans will just think your name is Alice or Alexis...
@bsqwahlE or that you're an anarchist.
This is the second video I watch with The Cross Examiner as a host and I've absolutely fallen in love with his form of communication and education ♥️
Hope to see him more often!
I love that they pretend it doesn't exist because it doesn't say that exact phrase. 🙄 They are just dim.
Mickey Elliot and CE did a great job in this call. I learned a lot. thanks guys hugs to all Jacques
Putting "In God We Trust" on money is mocking Christ.
It is a mocking of the Federal Reserve Bank, the real ones we are trusting.
It also mocks the fact that this country is a secular democratic republic. Government should be for all, not for the purpose of advancing the religions that called a deity "god". If that principle is adopted, then we should also have on our money, "In Allah, Buddha, Satan, Yahweh, Jesus, and all other named deities humans have ever invented, we trust". Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So does "In god we trust". It's propaganda, attempts to include all Americans under it, and is presumptuous at best. 🎉
OH ! Because Jesus is waiting for Trust Fund set up for him that he knows he doesn't collect until he turns 2,100 ?
😂 Jesus being a trustfund db is the funniest thing ever! Also, saying "in dog we trust" doesn't specify the god either.
Well, that could be! 😂
Other phrases that don’t appear in the text:
- Separation of powers
- Checks & balances
- Rule of law
- Freedom of religion
- Presumption of innocence
- that the Bill of Rights applies to the states too
- Electoral college
- Double jeopardy
- Executive privilege
- Veto
- Subject-matter jurisdiction
- Personal jurisdiction
- et cetera
Some people are just not smart to realise that things may be couched in different terms but mean the same thing. English comprehension is not a given for all English speakers.
I've never seen Cross Examiner before on AxP, I really like his approach! Respectful and educational!
the purpose of theistic religion has always been for social control. granting that additional bonus of power to the state would exacerbate the issues it already causes.
Best explanation of “separation of church and state” I’ve ever heard❤
🤟🏼😎👍🏼
The words "do not kill another human being" isn't in the constitution either but that doesnt mean we cannot derive laws from it.
Also, you don't need a book thousands of years old to tell us to not kill another human being. And we shouldn't need some fictional god telling us to not own other people, but we get so many callers trying to "defend" slavery.
"This one fiction out of 10,000 is the right one" isn't quite on the level of common sense as "don't murder people if you want to"
Excellent discussion, says this retired Canadian lawyer...
Dude fumbled in EVERY. SINGLE. POINT. he tried to make, absolutely hilarious. 😂😂😂
An excellent analysis. Makes complete sense. That's why Mikey and his fellow mouthbreathers still don''t get it.
In TN and most southern states, you cant buy alcohol on Sundays or even work most the time. Unless it’s McDonald’s… THEY NEED their chicken nuggets. THEY need to scream at service workers after church. Speaking from experience with those people.
CE is slick. He can crucify a bad opinion and seems like such a nice dude doing it. Like you almost welcome him destroying your own bullshit.
Also not in the Constitution: Jesus, Bible, Christianity
But the Constitution DOES contain the phrase "anno Domini." That PROVE the Constitution sprang right out if the Bible!
I'm sure Lauren Boebert would agree.
That doesn't prove anything apart from the language of time & Lauren Boebart is hardly a scholar
@@Suprahampton Exactly my point! All of the important founding documents support neutrality between religion and government. Protecting Free Exercise is the closest the Constitution comes to supporting religion.
Anyone who takes the presence of 'anno Domini' as evidence of a Biblical inspiration for the Constitution --- which some Reconstructionists do!!--- is seriously scraping through the bottom of the barrel.
@@gmansard641 especially since the guys who created that calendar got the start date wrong anyway, the historical Jesus (if he existed) was born around 5 years earlier than they thought he was. I think we should go back to AUC and date our years from the founding of Rome. After all, pretty much everything the West is, it owes to the Romans.
@@damianjblack Yes, it was Dionysius Exiguus in the mid 500s who came up with the Incarnation Calendar. He didn't base it on historic records, his inspiration was the enigmatic "Prophecy of the 70 Weeks" from the Book of Daniel. Somehow he concluded that "weeks" really meant "years" and that the Temple would be destroyed 70 years after Christ's birth. He actually got it kind of close.
Thank you all for the video
It's a shame the US still struggles with basic concepts figured out in Europe more than a hundred years ago. Religion belongs in history with all the religious wars.
@@Steve-sg3uz
Alas for you not only are those numbers still dwarfed by all those killed for being the wrong religion those alleged leaders didn't do so for atheism or to lead atheism.
@@Steve-sg3uz
Don't forget the religious murdered teachers for being educated.
@@Steve-sg3uz
Nice false dichotomy!
There are religious wars and there are secular wars, there have been no atheist wars.
Without religion there would be no religious wars, and thus overall less war - This is good.
Without atheism there would still be religious wars and secular wars, so no change.
More religion = more war = more death.
Less religion = less war = less death.
@@Steve-sg3uz Margaret Thatcher.
Cross Examiner is an amazing communicator
This call made my heart happy.
Me too.😢.
What this gentleman is talking about does indeed exist in Quebec. It’s called Bill 21 and it does restrict public employees from wearing religious symbols (crosses, hijab, Sikh head covering, etc).
In the 1970s (?) a meditation group wanted to add it to schools , but was thwarted since it was claimed it was bringing Hindu religion. Of course, this same want to put middle eastern religions in schools.
It is really nice to see a calm and reasonable approach to these calls. Not a fan of yelling or condescension
Thanks!
Grew up in a christian home, church, and school. Lemme tell you how often I was told Separation of Church and State is to protect religions from the government. God over government. It is ridiculous how much christians claim separation of church and state.
The ignorance of so many Christians just floors me. People of faith should be the biggest defenders of separation of church and state. Nobody suffers as much from a theistic government than people of faith.
"Cross Examiner" spot on!
Wow! The Cross Examiner is excellent! I’ve never seen him before! I could listen to him for hours! Love it!
Thanks so much!
It doesn't say "In God we Trust" on my Debit Card. Checkmate atheism.
Wow great discussion!
There is a reason why the separation is a part of the first amendment. A lot of people who came to america where Christians, Puritans, Quakers and Catholics who were fleeing persecution from other christian sects. If the government here was not secular they would have faced the same persecution again.
Puritans, Quakers, and Catholics ARE Christians.
And Puritans fled because they weren't allowed to persecute other Protestants.
Quakers weren't really persecuted in Protestant countries.
Catholics weren't really persecuted in Catholic countries.
First time watching these two. Excellent combo. Keep up the good work. 👊🏻
I'm so glad I'm not a USian weirdly obsessed with the founding fathers.
What does Usain Bolt have anything to do with the founding fathers. He's not even an American
Oh nice:) i had a feeling he was from Maryland:) sames bro. Im from Baltimore
Sweet!
Probably the most interesting 30 minutes I've spent on line for many months.
thank you. And thank you to Mikey.
Love and respect from Australia 🦘🦘🦘🦘.
Imagine if Islam was forced on the supposed Christians in America. "but but but, my separations"
No need for Islam. Just another branch of Christianity would suffice. Imagine reaction of all Protestant sects, if government announced that Catholicism is going to be official denomination to be followed? Or vice-versa?
Of course every dimwit pushing for theocratisation thinks *his* Church will be in charge.
He didn't say that he couldn't look up examples, he said that he hadn't done it.
If this comes up again you might mention that "free will" is not mentioned in the bible. It is a shorthand term derived from certain passages. At least I've not seen that exact phrase in the bible.
James Madison acknowledged that the first amendment was intended to create the wall that Jefferson described: and Madison did write the first amendment.
The concept of the separation of church and state was created to keep government from interfering in religion. The moment you introduce the idea of religion being involved government, government can be involved in religion.
@@Steve-sg3uz US is backwarded like two centuries behind Europe.
@@Steve-sg3uz More and more people in the US and the rest of the world are becoming less religious. With the exception of theocratic countries and places like North Korea where the religion is a government mandated worship of the leader.
"Congress has a prayer. Therefore, we can disregard the First Amendment"
@@Steve-sg3uz "I'm pretty sure Europe is in a far worse economic, per capita, position than the US is" So what? 😀How many people declared bankruptcy due to medical bills in the US? In EU it's ZERO.
"they are too woke/liberal" Yeah, we have employees rights protected by the law whilst US is the only country ON THE PLANET with ZERO mandatory paid leave. 😀Like I said: backwarded. Even Afghanistan, Eritrea, or Sudan are better than USofA. 😀
"At least in the US we're imparting mostly Christians." Yeah, 30% of Christians creationists... only in the Murica. In Europe over billion of Christians accepted evolution. 😀Like I said: backwarded. 3rd world country.
@@Steve-sg3uzIn the US christian superstitionism is the greatest exustentislbthreat the country has ever faced. It is turning the country onto a poorly-educated sh1thole.
why on earth does any christian want a theocracy? you want a religion, go nuts, but why on earth do you want to impose it on others?
Can anyone give an example of a State Religion that has respected the rights of non-believers and those of other faiths? Or even dissenters within their own faith?
I think the closest you've got is Anglicanism and that took a lot of political pressure to the point that it's now barely involved in practical politics.
The Mongol Empire had Tengri as its state religion and practised religious tolerance for its subjects and (peaceful) visitors, including Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. However, to date no state with Christianity as its state religion has been so tolerant.
That opening statement was so good. Clear and informative.
Thanks!
The religious zealots also don’t realize that if political power shifts to another religion, or even different the religion they choose will be considered heresy.
Exactly. Enshrine religion into law? "Sure," say the Christian Nationalists. Then the Buddhists become a majority and the Christians will be screaming, "We didn't mean THAT religion!"
@@robertt9342 They'd end up at war, because the only way Protestants outnumber Catholics is if they're all counted together as a single unit. But once they have "Protestants" in power, all denominations will end up fighting each other, since they aren't really a unit. It would be chaos.
Because if church and state are combined. One religion will want full control over all religions. School was made to learn how to grow with your community. Continue education to make a better person of yourself. Who's God would be chosen as the only God.? Leave it out of school. Religion belongs in churches not schools.
We want separation of church and state because it's our Constitutional right as further explained by many of our Founding Fathers, some of the most important ones and those that wrote the actual effin Constitution.
Many of the Founders were Deists, such as Washington, Governeur Morris, Thomas Paine, James Madison and James Monroe. Jefferson and Franklin were arguably Atheists but at least deistic. Even some of the most devout, orthodox believers, such as Sam Adams and John Adams, believed in a secular government. Men whose ideals and actions helped birth our nation, such as John Locke, Roger Williams and Adam Smith, believed in secular government and the separation of church and state.
Comparing "right to keep and bear arms" to "right to own and carry guns" is like comparing "separation of church and state" to "church must be a separate building". I am pretty sure neither is what was intended.
Is the caller reiterating some brain dead Dennis Pragerism?
At first it seemed like the caller was going to really get stuck on the whole "seperation of church and state" term, but this turned into a much more productive call than i thought.
The whole idea of church and state from Thomas Jefferson was written to a congregation Of parishioners who wanted protection from another congregation of parishioners who had slightly different religious beliefs to them, so literally the idea existed to solve a religious problem. Not to solve a secular atheist problem. Because the minute you say that there shouldn’t be a separation between church and state, the next rational question is, which church? It’s all well and good to say the Christian church, which Christian church? Christianity has thousands of denominations? So all you are going to do is start another turf war in the Christian world for supremacy in American politics. And we know where that ends. That’s the reason secularism was. Necessary to invent because europe tore itself apart for 1000 years over who was the right kind of Christian under the state. Read a fucking history book.
And therein lies the problem. Religious fundies do not read history books. Especially ones about far-away and inconsequential lands outside US of A.
Without separation of church and state - expect a country like Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan. These countries are rated Least Happy, Least Safe, and with Least Personal Freedom (and rated some of the very topmost "conservative" countries). Tip: look up "the top 10 Most Conservative Countries" and "the top 10 most Liberal Countries" and ask: in which would you like you and your family to live?
Plus if Christians had their way and Church and State became one, you'd be excluding every non-Christian religion and faith from that unification.
Unless you made ALL religions and faiths equally unified with the state.
Not only non Christians would be excluded, but also Christian denominations that aren't the state religion. If the protestants are in charge, the Catholics are fucked, and vice versa.
That's what they want, to drive every other religion out of the country. Unification will come when they pass laws that say "oh, and MY version of Christianity or go to jail." They want a theocracy, with an official state religion that will be extremely oppressive.
The funny part is here in the U.S. if we forced people to come down on a specific God belief it would be atheism. Christians are the majority but no distinct denomination numbers greater than atheists and if somehow they pulled off some way to bypass the atheist then they would all be under Catholic rule. Its funny to me that many say Christian as if they all agree on stuff.
The Cross Examiner. A name so meta my brain is smiling right now.
We make a religion of the government. Suddenly the pope is the one that casts the deciding vote in the congress and senate. Suddenly the leader of the mormons chooses who the "president" is.
Isn't their president always god? And when they put it to a vote, doesn't god get 110%? Just like Kim Jong Un's definitely democratic elections?
We could interpret Right to Bear Arms as the right to wear Tank Tops. 😊
This dude mixed up niqab and hijab sounds like, hijab covers hair, not face.....he keeps citing a law about FACE coverings....
The separation of church and state is a phrase that comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to his friend. Saying that by accepting the religious clause in the first amendment established a wall between church and state. It was a phrase that he created about a document that he wrote. There is another supreme Court opinion call the lemon law meant to keep the government out of religious entanglements and has criteria how to do that.
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- THE CROSS. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
~ JOHN ADAMS
(1735 - 1826)
Second President of the United States
"In those parts of the world where learning and science have prevailed, miracles have ceased; but in those parts of it as are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue."
~ ETHAN ALLEN
(1738 - 1789) American revolutionary, leader of the "Green Mountain Boys" Champion of statehood for Vermont
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." "In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the want of it."
~ BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
(1705 - 1790)
One of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence
“Religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God.”
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own"
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
~ THOMAS JEFFERSON
(1743 - 1826) Third President of the United States (1801-1809); principal author of the Declaration of Independence
"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
~ ABRAHAM LINCOLN
(1809 - 1865)
16th President of the United States, , 1861 - 1865
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution."
~ JAMES MADISON
(1751 - 1836) American politician and political philosopher; fourth President of the United States
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
~ THOMAS PAINE
(1737 - 1809)
British pamphleteer, American revolutionary, radical, inventor and intellectual
"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."
~ GEORGE WASHINGTON
(1732 - 1799) First President of the United States of America
_"Man, without God, doesn't know what is good and evil is"_ said Steve who truly believes it is morally good to slaughter infants to punish their parents because he has a tribal war g0d that told him so!
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Certain types of people will always feel that things were better long ago where blacks were not "uppity" and women were put in their place, in the kitchen barefeet and pregnant, with no voting power. And they'll claim this paradise is because of the Bible and Christianity.
It certainly was. It was when America was great... for a select group of people. Not so great for others.
@@Steve-sg3uz🤦♂️
The day the temples and churches began installing lightning rods is when religions lost to science.
@@Steve-sg3uz nope
Sunglasses in a bank.
I wear prescription lenses, and I’ve forgotten my regular glasses at home and only had my prescription sunglasses. Makes filling out paperwork fun, but no sunglasses means no sunglasses.
There's no Holy Trinity in the Bible, either.
Depends on the version. The was a bunch of editing of manuscripts to make it look like there was.
I heared the trinity was a result of attempts to harmonize the monotheistic jewish faith with its polytheistic roots. Any pointers on how best to begin research into that issue?
@@bazingaburg8264 no, not even close. Jewish theology is not "Binitarian", and the "Holy Ghost" isn't some separate entity. Rather, it's an attempt by 2nd century Christians to shoehorn the idea of "Jesus=God" into a scripture that doesn't support it.
It follows the Game of Telephone that can be seen in "gospels", where Jesus becomes more "God" with each reimagining. They also didn't want Jesus to just be a "fragment" of God, but rather, entirely God... This then meant that Christians needed to come up with a way to try up make this hyped up nonsense make sense.
In order to do this, (to deify their cult leader), they even went so far as to change the manuscripts to make it sound like this is what the original authors meant.
Check out Holy Koolaid's recent vid exploring the evidence that this is the case.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 Some of it was to try to keep monotheism. They had to explain how god, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit fit into monotheism. So Tertullian said there's just one "substance", which is the trinity god, but three persons. This issue caused the Aria controversy in the 4th century that had to be resolved at the Council of Nicea.
@@bazingaburg8264 To achieve this feat, Christians invented new math: "1+1+1=1"
Reminds me of the movie the Patriot, where they were choosing up sides for revolution....main character said, "Why should I trade 1 Tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 Tyrants 1 mile away?"
I am an irreligious, agnostic theist; and even as a theist, I favor the separation of Church and State, as should everyone else, for one reason, best elucidated by President Madison in his 1785 Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, where he wrote, "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" That is to say, if there _isn't_ a complete separation of Church and State, then even if your preferred religion is the one favored, that doesn't mean your preferred _denomination_ of that religion will be.
As an irreligious agnostic theist myself (pantheist) I agree
"Everything you said was in one ear and out the other and I have a script I want to stick to." FTFY