Carbide tipped sawmill blades, are they worth it? Episode # 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- We are testing out a carbide sawmill bandsaw blade on the Timberking 2220. We want to see if they are worth the extra money.
2 logs were not shown while cutting but overall we were impressed thus far and looking forward to more testing.
stay tuned for episode #2
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Nice blade and good assessment! just remember though board foot is not a good unit of measure for longevity. I could cut an oak log into 4 posts that are 8x8s taking 6 passes to do it, and cut the same oak log into 5/4 boards and would take 32 passes. The proper unit of measure is the square footage of wood cut.
Yes, you are correct. I will do that for the next video.
I use a carbide tipped blade on the mill for flattening dried slabs and it does a great job on the hard dried wood. I could not bring myself to run it cutting up a log at almost four times the price. I may need to reconsider that.
Neutral rake on the tips can add life as more carbide is engaging the wood.
I have positive rake on my 12" bandsaw for resawing . Love it.
I enjoy your videos. I am just learning to use my WM HM126. Not quite on the same level as you, but I am getting the hang of it. Up here in Maine we have an abundance of great wood to mill. I was having trouble with throwing blades but I finally seemed to have it figured out. I sawed my first Cherry today and it was incredible once that first slab came off. Thank you for making these videos. Lots of good tips even for a beginner.
Throwing a blade off is irritating, was the blade tracking to far forward or back? Or was it something on the belts? The more practice the better you will get, it's almost like second nature. I too love cherry, I've done a lot of cutting of it and now I only leave it live edged and cut down with tools after it dries. I rarely get requests for any dimensional.
@@TCSawmills Its a bit of a long story, but to keep it short - The first blade that jumped shredded my drive belt. I had ordered a spare belt, so I popped it on, thinking it was fine. After ruining 3 blades with no cuts, checking tracking, spending time on the phone with WMs, it turned out the V profile of the new belt was off just enough so that under tension it would sit too deep into the wheel and I was getting wheel to blade contact throwing the blades. Tricky to figure out for a beginner. And the bummer was it was a direct replacement blade from woodland mills
Yes mee too. And wm tech support said I was over torquing even though I did exactly as they said per the owners manual. They have some issues to sort out for sure on tensioning and belt selection.
Did you consider putting the blade on the mill before you remove the protective cover from the carbide teeth? Or would that be too difficult? It seems that the chance of damaging the teeth during the installation of the blade would be much less. I will admit to not knowing anything about saw milling other than what I’ve seen in the dozens of videos that I’ve watched so my thinking may be way off base.
We use Timberwolf cobalt blades and they are well worth it.
What is the brand name of the blade? Can you provide a link to the company that makes them, I want to try one on my mill.
Thanks!
A good video nice to see how a carbide blade worked
Years ago, I helped a guy run a Wood-mizer. He refused to cut hickory. He ran tons of poplar and sometimes oak. We were on a maple syrup farm, so he would run maple when one died or fell over. I wonder if the carbide would have helped him "diversify" on species. It was hard work but oddly satisfying. Especially when the property owner used his John Deere narrow front tractor as a log bulldozer... Anyway, great video and very informative!
A Carbide blade would definitely help with Hickory. Cuts a to smoother and easier. Thanks for the comment 👍
Have you ever had a need for a 1 1/2" blade ,however what is the most used width of blade during your daily operation ?.... I dont see much review on the different sizes on these larger diesel mills. Your thoughts on this would be great .Thank you again
I will probably run a 1.5" at some point. I just have to adjust my guide rollers to support it.
Do you have a link to the blade?
Wow... !!! My best friend, It's always great. I wish you every day of your development. Have a happy day!
These blades have been around a while, but came into their own, after the eruption of Mt. St. Helen. There was so much downed lumber that was soaked in pumice, regular blades just did not last.
Awesome, I didn't know that.
good information
Wow three nail strikes and still cutting like nothing happened, impressive.
Nice video, eating oak sawdust will catch up with you. Try putting a 6" piece of tube ( I used one from a leaf blower). about 30" long. Sure keeps the wind from blowing it and makes a easy clean up pile..
We have since built a building and changed orientation of the mill so that we don't get sawdust blown into our face while cutting.
The carbide blade is giving double the number of cuts as it has no offset, hence the better surface finish?
Red Oak and Hickory, I am jealous. Only pines and fir and a rare Maple here.
Live oak is the real test. I can cut about 500-700bf of big live oak on a Munksfor 2in .055 blade, at $40 per blade its gonna be hard to justify a $200-$250 blade upgrade. A few blade manufacturers that I have discussed this w/ share the same sentiments. Depending on the size of the band wheels on the sawmill, you will be lucky to get 2-3 sharpening on the blade due stress cracks developing as many of these blades get run longer and harder.
Have you tried Timberwolf cobalt blades 'from Sulfolk Machinery? I don't believe they are that expensive. I get 1.5" .055 222" long for less than $90.
@@meehd01 Havent tried any cobalt, only carbide and bi metal, both of which couldnt compete on the $/bf. The cobalt definitely makes it wear better but a 2in, the blade would probably run $120+ which would equate to 3 of my regular blades.
@@kurtsmith4657 You might holler at Tom at Sulfolk Machinery to see what they would cost. Actually I think I asked him about 2" blades and he said I was better off with the 1.5" I am using. I could use 2" on my mill but the 1.5" seem to be working good.
@@meehd01 I will check into it. The best guy ive found is named Robert, he owns and operates Kennesaw Saw in GA. His prices are so good that it shames Woodmizer and the Munksfor coil stock will last 2-3x what a cheap Silver tip WM blade would run. The munksfor stock is ground sharp whereas alot of other band blades are actually die cut or punched out, makes a big difference. Thank you for your suggestion, best regards.
seems like these mills could use a inverter hooked up to the alternator to provide a 110 VAC source. Then run a small air compressor and tank so you have compressed air for cleaning the rig. Likewise a place to plug in an extension cord for fans, lights, etc.. Nothing like a 50amp service, but something simple.
Would be nice to see longevity of the blade,as the re sharpening of hss blades removes any fatige cracking,thus extending the life of the blade
You’re doing a good job
Where did you order the blades from? Thanks
Now that is very impressive. I may have to invest in a few of those when I get ready to mill some oak.
Saw kerf is the set? Width of the blade? It’s not nail proof or knot. Feed speeds? Deflections? Maintenance and sharpener recommended? Production run will be test to run, in my opinion. How much lubercation level? Moisture levels in boards?
I'm really impressed that it did so well even after it cut though at least six nails! What would have happened with a "normal" blade?
One nail maybe, then if we push it it would blow up soon after.
@@TCSawmills Then you already found that the economics are better for the carbide tipped blades?
We are trying to work through sharpening. Next video will go over that but we have a bit more tweaking to do
These look to run really good.
If you ever used a Skilsaw with a carbide tipped blade on a demo, nails would be no big surprise. Carbide tipped saws run good until you lose tooth corners or whole tips. Big high production sawmills with bandsaws will be swedge tooth or stellite. As always clean logs save saws.
Good video, I have a Woodland Mill HM122. Why did you choose Timber King over Wood Mizer
I've owned 7 sawmills including a woodmizer, cooks, lucas and Timberking. Can't beat the Timberking product and customer service. The woodmizer dealer I worked with turned me off of ever buying another. The parent company is great and their mills are great but the dealer and I did not get along.
Carbide will hold a cutting edge 10 times as long as HSS (high speed steel), slightly less on the blue tip HSS blades. It removes the sawdust better because the dust is bigger.
The flat top and face angles on the carbide will pull dust out of the cut better. Also, you might see the horsepower demand increase as an indicator that the carbide is getting dull.
Thanks for the info. I will say that the 2220 has plenty of power to pull it. We are learning more each time we use the blade and sharpen it. So far we have sharpened it 2 times, only once correctly. We are about to sharpen for the 3rd time, then I'll shoot to conclusion video.
Hello Jim I acquired a massive load of industrial Amada blades and I need to educate myself a bit before I try to move these could I ask a few questions
I've used carbide blades on my lt40 and large Dankart bandsaw for years. Mostly for veneers they will out perform normal blades by a long way.
Used to use Starrett and Morse for the Dankart but per single blade £174 - $234 (they are very long blades) not enough carbide to re-sharp.
I now have exactly the profile I need made in China (German back Swedish carbide) Fedex to me per batch of 10 blades comes out at $53 per blade. They cut FAST and CLEAN on fresh timber, cut flat and clean on kiln dry to the full width of the lt40.
At 0.9mm x 32mm i set the tension just into the red lube on pulse 5, cuts knotty 7mm fresh Ash veneers 710mm x 2500mm in 48 seconds flat enough to glue down, takes about 3500bf of old straight Scots pine to kill the blade passed what a sharpen can recover. And as there is no set you can hit a few nails and keep going, they don't like pebbles or glass embedded😒
They don't stay razor sharp for long but pretty damn sharp for a very long time and that is all you need, I have a new box of double hard's and used 3 blades from it in the last 6 years.
Not tried the Woodmizer carbide yet.
Thanks for the info, I'm just getting into running carbide blades and I'm impressed. We are going to get a few more to keep on hand for the big cuts on the high end logs.
@@TCSawmills Also, leave the plastic cover on till you've mounted the blade and got a bit of tension on, especially on a mizer where your feeding past a steel post, it help protect the teeth.
I have one blade with no carbide at all, result of pressing next cut instead of bump up then coming back, blade did a very good job of cutting a big curve through part of the idle door🥴😅
What's your source on the blades?
@@dherman0001 Will post the details when I'm in front of my computer 🙂
Watch Matthew Cremona's you tube , he made his sawmill and is using carbide blades and loves them.
Yes, I do watch his channel and have had some good in person meetings with him. He and his wife are really good people.
Lovely superb Nice sawing.
Can you help me how much would it cost to send a blads like that to sri lanka
Did you have to change your setworks computer for the difference in blade thickness.
Yes there are adjustments that can be made to the computer to account for blade thickness.
I have a timberking 2500 in Kentucky. I have been looking at the carbide tipped, but have not tried one yet. I use them on my metal saw, but they don't make them for wood.
Great videos. I am looking to get a cat claw sharpener since timber king no longer sharpens.
Hi what is the brand of the blade.can you add link ? Thanks
Teak is very abrasive and a normal Timber Wolf blade on a WoodMizer can cut about 400-500 bdft in one inch thickness before needing to sharpen the blade. A Timber Wolf cobalt blade can cut 1200-1500 bdft in one inch thickness before resharpening. Normally able to resharpen 4-6 times before blade breaks. On my conveyor horizontal resaw with 28" wheels cutting teak blocks with carbide blades will cut more than 10,000 bdft in one inch material before it needs to be resharpened.
Logs you need to worry about the dirt, rocks, & metal in-bedded in the bark and wood and carbide is brittle and will chip/break the teeth hitting a rock or metal..
Thanks for the information. I am impressed with how they preform.
cutting five logs in to how many bits, ie how many passes?
very impressed , just finished cutting 50m3 of douglas, i reckon they would be good on sweet chestnut, here in France
It cuts walnut, red oak, Hickory and ash great. Should be great on chestnut. Also if there is a fear of nails it cuts right through them. So far on this bade I think I've hit 6 nails, 😆 just a bit of a sneak peek. Now we are trying to sharpen it correctly.
What kind of mill and where do u get the blade?
Thx greetings from Germany and I run a LT 40
I am a firm believer in carbine tips. I use them on my chainsaw. When the saw stops cutting, I change chains and bar because the bar is also used up. Carbide made me a believer.
I'm starting to feel the same way.
How much it cost and how long is
Wow that is looking amazing I need to find some of those carbide blades and try em out
Your going to probably want to keep a EpiPen for bee 🐝 stings out at the mill👌👍🧡🧡🧡🐝🙏
You can't go wrong with carbide blades .I made carbide for 35 years. Working b with General Electric Co. Then Hugh tool .
Did you have to put it on a easy payment plan with a payment book? 😩
What is the cost? Like $ 135 each. They are worth the money.
Where did you find the blade
Should've put that knot on the corner. That way you can cut the knot out. You would make better boards. Now the boards will be weak and break.
I agree I put the knots in one of the four corners of the cant. Then it can be edged off. Never in the middle of a plank. My two cents. Peace
What most people don't know or don't realize that steel cuts by sharpness that's your blade but carbide cuts b well it's so hard it's not actually sharp it's so hard that it actually cuts by the dwell and I'll where's the pressure that's the difference I worked as a machinist and I can tell you that is one of the things that you learned the smoother your grind on your steel the longer the last carbide does not have that problem it is more heat it will not take a hard shot that can cause it to chip it is still very very hard that's what makes it cut the way it does it does not feel Sharp the sharpness will disappear very shortly after you make your first cuts that's just the way carb ideas you'll know it's getting tired when it starts doing the wave thing and everything else and it's time to reach sharpen but you have to use a special type of stone to read sharpen carbide 🤠😎
Matt Creamona used a carbide blade on his home made mill and he said it cut as much as any other four blades
Hi where can I order these blades bud thanks ..
Timberking
Where did you find them
What are 4×6 hard wood timbers typically used for
Called side clearance on the carbide tip.
If I had hardwood logs I think the last thing I would turn them into would be 4x6 . I would die to be able to buy four quarter or eight quarter x 16” x 12’
These were the customer's logs and what they ordered. The timber frame they are building is pretty amazing.
The area (square feet) of cut surface is the correct way to characterize the amount of wear on the blade, not volume (board feet). If you cut 1000 board feet of 4" x 6" boards, the amount of wear will be one-half as much as 1000 board feet of 2" x 6" boards cut from the same logs.
Save a piece of wood from these first cuts so you can directly compare cut quality with future samples.
Interesting video!
You are correct, I really wanted to do 1" material to show a true board footage count. In up coming videos we will try to better show how much 1" material it can cut.
Totally agree, most people cutting dimensional lumber are not cutting 4x6 beams. And the real test is sawing into the bark of hardwoods as in my experience is what takes ultimate toll on the teeth.
This is where I love my debarker on the mill 👌👍🧡🧡🧡
Machinist here, quick comment on the sharpness of carbide compared to high speed steel. Carbide will always feel "duller" than HSS. Carbide has a much larger grain structure than high speed steel thus cannot generate a truly razor sharp edge like steel blades can. Carbide is made from tungsten powder bound together with nickle, so think fine talcum powder in size, which is literally the grain size of the carbide. High speed steel's grain size is the physical size of the metal's crystal structure, MUCH smaller than the carbide grain size. As a result, high speed steel can produce a much finer edge. Where carbide excells is in its hardness and wear resistance it will maintain its edge much longer and should in theory last significantly longer than a steel blade. Not having sawn wood with a carbide blade I cant speak to how it would handle imbeded nails but thats not the blades intent regardless of blade material.
Thank you for the information. We think we've got it correctly sharpened now. Testing later this month. The biggest thing um excited about is the cleanliness of the cut, helps a ton on finishing.
Diamond wheel for grinding and a really good grinder , just touch the surface . And wear a mask . Teeth are replaceable , but will require some training and a carbide jig , X side clearance is built into the tooth
Made me really nervous putting your finger that close with the motor running lol
have a Norwood sawmill D36
I'm not sure why you have to throw the blade to unfold it. I've owned a bandsaw for 15 years and have never done that
Hello just wondering where I can purchase a blade like this. Thanks
We get Timberwolf cobalt blades from Sulfolk Machinery. Ask for Tom. We have been using them for years and they are a LOT better than the others.
Where did you get the blade at?
Timberking has them in stock now. They have Timberking and woodmizer sizes.
Is there any possibility of resharpening the carbide blades or are they scrap once dull?
I originally missed the end where you mentioned resharpening but as a follow up question, would a different sharpening stone be needed for the carbide tips?
Yes, a diamond sharpening wheel is needed. Once we get the technique down I think we can sharpen 3 or 4 times. We are still testing.
@@TCSawmills make sure you use oil on the diamond
wheel to keep from burning the tips of the tooth
Wasps are jerks, aren't they ?
Yes, especially around the sawmill.
Is there a set on the blade?
No, there is no set to the blade. Just a sharpener with the correct cam and dimond wheel is all you need.
What size are those band wheels they look tinny
19" same as quite a few sawmill companies. We run either a B56 or B57 belt on them.
I’ve not had good longevity with the woodmaster ct on wet wood.
Dry wood yes wet wood no.
My saw is a vertical B20/20 Aggi.
Did u see that beautiful black butterfly
What happens when you hit a nail or something?
The blade kept cutting just as smooth as could be. It's not intended to cut through nails but the carbide blade is not affected as bad as a normal bandsaw blade. This blade to date has hit 6 or so nails, we couldn't see any damage to the teeth.
@@TCSawmills Thanks. I appreciate the info. I had a carbide blade on my shop bandsaw, never dulled it, but broke it before I could wear it out.
good job...
What's the latest on these? I've shopped around and I'm able to get the stock material for about $50 for a 156" blade. This doesnt include welding. Add about $10 for welding if farming it out, though it's not hard to do yourself. 100 meter minimum order gets me 25 blades with a bit left over. Coming from China. I've used one and was blown away. I'd say they are at least 5 times longer cutting than rippers. I'm about to bite the bullet and buy a coil. Should cut may blade expense by well more than half conservatively. Another $500 bucks in my pocket per month.
Timberking sells them bit only in a few sizes
@@TCSawmills I'm about to import 200 meters from China.
I would be interested in knowing who and how to order 100 meter blades from china.
It should last 10 times longer than a steel saw need a diamond stone when sharpening only the carbide part
Wouldn’t it make a different in how many passes you make on the cant versus making 6-8 passes and calling it board footage..
Yes you are correct but the comparison between the 2 blades was the same. Cut nearly the same dimensions between the normal blade and the carbide blade, and the carbide blade lasted far longer. The best would be 1" material cut by each or the total surface area each blade cut.
Must be a munfursagar blade. Don't know if I spelled it right. Lol
Hey good info I have pallets full of large Amada bandsaw blades I purchased in bulk on a bulk warehouse deal carbide, wood , metal , up to 3 inch wide and 33ft long as well as bulk rolls to make custom length .....anyone see this hit me up these things are massive and I need to move them in large quantities and discounts
What are the 4 by 6s for?
It's for a job my dad is cutting. He has to cut over 100 of them as well as 8x8 and 8x10 for a customer's timber frame project.
first listen
How much yackety-yack not enough work
Yeah, 36 mins is 26 mins too long...it could/should have been edited to be a 10 minute video.
If your feed speed is slower than normal it’s not a true test
You characters with these sawmills on youtube you make me laugh 🤣what is the big deal about cutting wood ! iv worked in the bush for 50 years years its nothing.
It's the sharing of information, not much out there in way of carbide blades. I had questions and I'm sure others do to.
Вау !!!
You need to get someone to give u lessons on how to get the most out of a log. You are leaving at least a 1x6 on each slab.
The customer only wanted 4x6's and the off cuts for rustic benches. I know how to cut thank you.
I was also thinking those first cuts were so thick like you were just a beginner but I see you had your orders.
This type of clean cutt im cutting here in pakistan sharpening blade on my own made sharpening machine video on my channel
JUST CUT!! We get it's a different blade!
😆 yes I know, just trying to give out as much information for people looking at getting this type of blade.
You are going super slow. My lt 40 super had that cut into 4x6s before you started on the 3rd cut. You need speed up that mill will do it.
Yes I was cutting slow. The mill was brand new when we shot this video. During the break in period (50 hrs) the manufacturer suggests limiting operations.
No lines or ridges like you might get from a std. blade that might have some teeth set wide.
Will you let the cat out of who made the blade in the comments?
Timberking now has then in stock. Info will be out on a video soon
Youll find the blade will break long befire you wear out the teeth.
Kerf
You repeat yourself way too many times,is your middle name parrot? Good video otherwise 👍.
You talk too much
Ok
Where did you order that blade from?
I'd sure like to know by now geez
It's in the video description, timberking finally got them in stock.
Timberking, they were back ordered for months