It kinda might be a good thing that Trisha passed on because even though she is dead, you can tell Dante is fiercely still jealous of her and despises her for winning his love. I could see Dante torturing her.
@@alchemistofsteel8099 Actually, it's never truly confirm is the homunculie are indeed their "past selves" resurected or if they are something else interaly!
You can easily imagine Dante using Trisha as a new body for her soul to transfer, to torment both Hoenheim and Elric Brothers, but honestly, that would've been too dark even for 2003
It’s fucked, in a sense, Hohenheim is Ed and Al’s father, but he isn’t as well. Soul wise, he’s their father, and body wise he’s not, so whoever’s body it was that Hohenheim put himself into, that person either died, or was trapped in some way. And the unlucky person ended up being Ed and Al’s biological father, and didn’t know it, his body was taken and that’s it.
That's a good point. What happens to the original person? I thought their mind becomes taken over in a sense. Like they no longer exist but it's not actual death if that makes sense. Idk
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 I was thinking that the original person’s soul is trapped and forced to watch Hohenheim take the body over, like in Get Out. Either that, or the Hohenheim is able to transform the host body to look like his original one.
@@SusGuido After doing a ton of research and being unable to find anything, my hypothesis (lol) is that the original person's soul is either 100% suppressed aka dormant or permanently extinguished. Because if the soul was still active like in Get Out, it would make sense they'd try and fight against the foreign soul and that would mean Dante and Hohenheim would at times have to fight to maintain control, which would be the price of their "immortality." But since they don't have to fight, I'm guessing the soul again is dormant or extinguished and that's why their body rots. Because the original soul is either not active or gone therefore the foreign soul is like a virus and the body's way of fighting it is that rot since the original soul isn't able to do that job. Like white blood cells attacking a virus.
blew our fuckin minds when he said that. Y'all have no idea what it was like to experience this show in real time. Now everyone is like "greatest anime ever" but back then, you felt like you were watching something transcendent.
I like how the this ties the whole "granting eternal life" aspect of the philosophers stone into the story, but in a way that evokes revulsion. Immortality is a lot less pleasant when you spend it wearing a decaying meat suit.
rloul1 I know. It just reminds of a scene in Batman Beyond where Bruce calls out Ras al Ghuls desperation to avoid death and takes back his words saying he doesn't cheat death or in Ras words, mastered it. He whimpers in fear of it.
Dude 2003 is just so sick because of the personal stakes of the narrative. Their father, one of the main reasons the story exists is a former lover of the final boss as it were. It's just so sick that Ed and Al's last test is effectively against their step-mother and I think there's something inherently interesting about that.
William Levart she was clearly talking to Hoenheim, but I was just making a joke. Anyway, I think Lust and Gluttony just listened in like “okay she’s monologuing, better pay attention”
Father and Dante are two different shades of Lovecraftian Horror. Father is an abomination of god-like power, who use ill-inspired cultist for his schemes of world-shattering aim. He's fundamentally unlike humans, being devoid of their empathy and wanting to be without sins. Basically, he is the Dunwich Horror with more brains Dante, at the opposite, is very human. She was born one, and has the most basic human fear, the fear of death. The horror lies in what she is ready to do to live again and again, to wich degree she is ready to degrade her soul. At the time of her destruction, she's a complete monster, having none of her humanity left. As her speech shows, she only think in term of survival, like an animal. There's a big "The Thing on the Doorstep" vibe from her.
Disagree Dante is a messily written villain that goes for the humans are the real Monsters and the plot hits you over the head with It somewhat pretentiously (granted i get the impression It probably wasn't intebtional) Oh humanity repeats it's mistakes continously, war is for the profit of a little few, oh look at how "vile" Dante is Like I think most people get the message fma 2003 The manga is better than this anime Like a villain DOESN'T have to BE HUMAN TO REINFORCE HIS HUMAN VICES! It's not as Deep as some seem to Think It is And I also disagree with her being lovecraftian She's more of a lich honestly
so basically Dante and Hohenhiem are cowards that not only fear death by body hopping throughout the century, but never actually know how to love anyone else let alone respect the life of others. Hohenhiem is the only one who learned a harsh truth of life after failing his original son (envy) and marrying Trisha Elric along with having another pair of kids with her.
But no one speaks about her What a Shame! Because Dante it's my favorite anime villaness of all time! She is better than father, has a great and selfish plan, she is the maleficent of the anime universe and inspires pure evil when she is around This would be my top of my favorite female anime antagonists of all time: 1.-Dante (FMA 2003) 2.-Queen Nehelenia (Sailor Moon Super S and Sailor Stars) 3.-Sailor Galaxia (Sailor Moon: Sailor Stars) 4.-Debonair (Magic Knight Rayearth Season 2) 5.-Aya Tokoyogi (Strike The Blood) 6.- Yuno Gasai (Mirai Nikki)
Everyone calls Dante crazy. Evil. Cowardly for her miserable life. And it really is. And also everyone believes that Hohenheim left her for this very reason. But... Let's not confuse cause and effect. What was Dante originally like? We can learn this from her own words in the following dialogue: "Al: - Dante, why did you decide to become an alchemist? Dante: - Well, the reason was quite ordinary. I just wanted to help people. People need alchemy. Although this does not mean that you can not do without it. And yet, alchemy helps to make people happy. It would be nice if the efforts of those who strive for happiness were always rewarded. That's how I thought." Why do I think she was telling the truth? Because her current views are literally saturated with nihilism, rejection of people. Only a person who was once sincerely (and naively) convinced of the opposite can come to such a pronounced nihilism. But apparently, at some point she met Hohenheim and fell in love with him... And instead of helping people, she blindly helped him in all his apparently scientific affairs. In the creation of the Philosopher's stone in particular. They have ruined many lives for their own purposes. I believe that the main initiator of the search for the philosopher's stone was Hohenheim. But Dante looks in this case like the one who just blindly follows her beloved. And so, her lover almost died. She can't let him die. She saves him, at the cost of someone else's life. Let's be honest, quite a few of us would have done the same. And what's next? They live together like lovers. Dante gives birth to a child from Hohenheim. They raised him for 18 years until he died... Then they decide to revive his son, but only a homunculus, the future Envy, is born. And what does Hohenheim do? He's just... Left Dante. He left his son. Yes, it was a homunculus, but so what? He was aware of himself as the son of Hohenheim. Envy felt like the same person, had all his memories. Envy felt almost the same as Edward, being also abandoned by the same father. Dante... Can you imagine how she felt? Left alone in such a situation, being no longer with the most stable mind, it is natural that she went completely mad. And all why? Because Hohenheim is a coward. He did not take responsibility for the Envy. He did not take responsibility for the one who sincerely loves him. He left Dante literally in Hell. Alone. She was left by the man she loved, whose life she once saved at the cost of another person's life. I don't think many people can boast that they could have kept their sanity in such a situation. And what do we see after 400 years? Both continue to jump from one body to the other. Dante has finally become disillusioned with humanity, and out of her despair continues to prolong her meaningless life. And Hohenheim does the same. Moreover, unlike his magnificent version from the Brotherhood, the Hohenheim of Light did not dare to tell Trisha the whole truth about himself. And again he abandoned his sons. It's funny to realize that Edward and Envy have a lot in common in this regard. They are even more brothers than one could imagine. And the most disgusting thing is that Hohenheim has not learned lessons from the past. What does he do when he meets Lieutenant Maria Ross? He's fucking flirting with her! Moreover, seeing that she takes it seriously. He just keeps playing with people's feelings. Knowing that he had once driven Dante to madness with such irresponsibility. And at the same time, later hypocritically declaring to Dante that he is married when she hints to him about "testing her new young body." And then their dialogue, which finally makes it clear what a pathetic person Hohenheim is. "Hohenheim: - Trisha was the FIRST and ONLY woman I ever loved" Dante: - Really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you whisper tender words of love to me four centuries ago Hohenheim: "Let's not talk about it..." Very nasty of him. If Van Hohenheim is a hero, then the Hohenheim of Light is an irresponsible coward who simply abandoned everyone when anyone needed him. Someone who has not learned any lessons from his mistakes, and continues to take people's lives. And Dante... Yes, she has turned into a monster who has lost all the positive part of her humanity. And even in this situation, it is clear that she still retains feelings for Hohenheim and her pain. Almost perfectly hiding it behind his monster disguise. If you look at it this way, then Dante is a woman with a very sad fate. Therefore, it is fundamentally wrong to say that Hohenheim left her because she is insane. Cause and effect should not be confused.
@@loyisad1211 He may have kept his distance because had he have written them, he probably would have felt compelled to return home but he couldn’t given the circumstances. He had to stop Father. Poor guy already didn’t want to leave in the first place and he never had a family before so his “neglect” for his family is honestly not far from understanding.
Hohenheim was one to always abandon his “problems” or his loved ones. Even in fmab he’s not any different. The reason why he was upset at Edward when he came back to a burned down house and his sons tragic accident, was the same reason he was upset with himself. Abandonment.
Not really, in one way or the other the stones will run out and a person will die, if anything in the 03 anime there were no side effects of Al soul being in an armor while in brotherhood he could die at any moment due his body and soul being uncompatible
I feel that for all of Dante's big talk about humans being fools and equivalent exchange being a lie, she herself is nothing more than a coward and a parasite. All she does is just prolong her existence, but for what reason? She doesn't do anything. She has no endgame. All she does is waste countless lives to evade death- She survives, but she doesn't live. Once Dante transfers to another body, all she does is exist, hopping from vessel to vessel with no goal or endgame in sight. Even Father at least had a goal and dream that was somewhat meaningful. Dante, though? She just drains from society to prolong her existence but does nothing to contribute, just spending her days in her mansion lavishly and not really helping anyone. Her life has become so empty and meaningless and she's an even bigger hypocrite than Father.
TheMegaUzumaki Even that’s just a lie and she knows it, though- If she REALLY wanted to keep them from the stone, she wouldn’t be actively manipulating and guiding them to its creation in the first place.
That's the whole point. Dante represents how selfish and how glutonous humans can be She even dies consumed by Gluttony himself Because 03 isn't about how the 'power of friendship' can overthrow any enemy (even if he's literally god and could've killed everybody loong ago, but for some reason, the 400 yold super intelligent being decides to keep their main enemies alive and well)... it's about how far can humans go to achieve their own goals, and that redemption, sadly, isn't always possible. This whole theme IMO fits a lot more with Ed and Al's journey to get a philosopher stone. "Is it really worth it getting one?"
One can even say that, she also doesn't know why she is doing that. Maybe she believes there's nothing after death, or the worse case there's something after death (Kami) which will potentially punish her. On the other hand, she was Izumi's alchemy teacher. Ironically, Elric Brothers might have improved themselves to a significant level due to Izumi's knowledge, which is passed on by Dante.
In Shonens Dante is a very unique character, primarily her simplicity (Unlike super-charismatic cyber-samurai with sharingans instead of eyes). Many will consider this a shortcoming of the script, but in fact it is a universal archetype - "Evil Devouring Mother" - a negative aspect of the maternal figure. For clarity, the most notable example of the embodiment of this image was in "Snow White". This is the Queen, Stepmother of Snow White. Dante in general can be called the stepmother of Ed and undoubtedly she is the Queen of her own kingdom (although the second is not so important). Just remember how she desperately fights for life and eternal beauty, and what she wants to do with Rosa (snow white). Of course, I'm far away from the archetype in general and went to the character of the queen, it's just an interesting parallels. But the root in both cases is the same. When we think of Archetypes, we mostly talk about the unconscious. What is the essence of what we experience in relation to the mother? The personal experience of each individual is of course unique, but the archetype is the archetype that includes the most General idea. In the last analysis it is the magical authority of all that is feminine; wisdom and spiritual height beyond reason; something benign, something giving shelter, something fraught, bearing something, the giver of growth, fertility and sustenance; the place of magical re-realization and rebirth; a contributing and helping instinct or impulse. This is the positive aspect of the Archetype of mother that Trisha embodies. Dante represents the aspect of the "Evil Devouring Mother" concealing something hidden, something dark-somnolent, the abyss, the world of the dead, something swallowing, seducing and poisoning, something exciting fear and inevitable. In the culture of this way embody the witch, dragon, any swallowing or wrapped around the animal victim, whether a big fish or a snake (Ouroboros). In the context of the analysis of the image of Dante, I think it is important to note the role of the symbol of Ouroboros. I will not dwell on it, but it is a very important detail. Ouroboros is a symbol of the eternal cycle of rebirth. This very clearly illustrates, what represents from themselves Dante, which so many times changed bodies. Ouroboros also applies to homunculi. After all, a homunculus is the rebirth of another person. Hence the mark of Ouroboros. Also Ouroboros has the meaning of the end of the world. He comes to the edge, biting its own tail. Literally devouring itself. What happened to Dante? It has reached the limit of its possibilities, its end is coming. What happened? The cause of her death was "gluttony" (this can be taken as a metaphor), which got out of her control. She literally devoured herself. Exactly like the Ouroboros. I really like the work of writers. Summing up my thoughts, we can say that the final confrontation between Dante and Edward is a confrontation between Archaic and Modernism. Nature against Humanity. Archaic thinking presupposes the inseparability of man from nature. in Jung's typology, Dante is the "Evil Devouring mother", the Archetype of the mother is the personification of nature, matter, capable of both giving life and taking away. There is nothing spiritual about Dante. The more noticeable the physiology of her image. In scene the first meeting Dante with Hohenheim can be discern as she revels in own youth and offers "try new body", in the other scene she predatory looks on Rosa (more precisely on its body). She's also upset that she missed the opportunity to "enjoy the love (sex)" of Edward. This is a real animal, praising the frailty and meaninglessness of its existence. All the more vividly felt her absolutely animal fear of death. She is the personification of an ancient irrational fear and as a consequence of the evil generated by this fear. In a monologue with Edward, she literally says "Its cruel and random world and yet the chaos is all so beautiful". In her opinion, the cruelty of the world in the order of things-if we live in the jungle you need to be animals and live by the law of the jungle. This is Archaic thinking. In this regard, it is especially ironic that her name is Dante. One of the main interpretations of Dante Alighieri's divine Comedy is the victory over death, over flesh, over earthly existence. It's the exact opposite of Dante from FMA. She is afraid of death, strives to satisfy carnal desires, and she does not care about her own soul, because with every "jump" her soul is split. It's really funny. This contrast makes her character even more insignificant and alienating... But that in my opinion is the greatness of this character.
Liked because of the sheer effort put into this, you should try and write a published article with this kind of passion. That way, you can at least get money out of it.
New to shonen? Hah that's a bad joke Someone seeking immortality is as old as time . The Epic of Gilgamesh has It for example Like Dante isn't innovative , contrary to what some people appear to believe That and the character was badly written
@@isauldron4337 My God, please turn on your brain and read my entire text. Dante is good not because she is deeply written, but because she is written to the extent that the overall canvas of the story takes on depth. That's what I wrote about. And all of Edward's journey is intertextual to Carl Gustav Jung's theory of individuation. Edward descends into the depths of the subconscious where the most suggestive archetypes of Anima (Rose) Devouring Mother (Dante) and Shadow (Envy) are hidden, literally descends into the underground city. So Yes. The Devouring Mother archetype is the archetype of material death and decay. This is Dante. Now think about why the story ends in a ballroom and Dante is wearing a Baroque dress.if you're interested I can tell you. In such details lies the depth of the story
@@respnocza6953 A prequel series leading up to the creation of the first philosophers stone and ending with Hohenheim having kids with Trisha would have been amazing
Fun Fact:Hohenheim`s original body at 1:22 is a mix of Paracelsus(The real Van Hohenheim)as a young man,the historical Saxon leader Cynric and Merlin the wizard from Arthurian lore.
@@marcuscheng9398 Yep and the same is likely true of Dante hence her accent in the English Dub after she possesses Lyra,also the fact that she mentions witch burnings as well as her original body having auburn hair suggests she may be from Scotland, Ireland or Norway originally .(If Hohenheim was the historical Merlin, that would make Dante the historical Morgana or Morgaine Le Fey and Envy/William Pratt(Which was the birthname of Indian-English "Frankenstein`s Monster" and "Im-Hotep/Ardeth Bay" actor Boris Karloff)the historical Mordred or Mordru with hints of Lewis Caroll`s Mad Hatter .
It makes sense that he would look like the elric brothers because he fathered them in this current body.. Not in his original. He even says he never switched bodies after. The question is why does envy look so much like his current body? Envy should look different.
Envy does not remember his original form really(he states this himself in the series), he only transformed into that form who looks like Edward's brother to make the point so Edward could not doubt the truth. If he would have transformed into the body he did have before he died, his looks would not be similar to Edward's and Edward would not been affected like he was by the statement. That is how I viewed the transformation and the dilemma is solved.
+StormJaw It's possible that Hohenheim used alchemy to change his DNA and look like his original self. That explains why the Elrics and Evny look like him. He probably does that every time he goes into a new body.
0:47 At this moment, you can barely notice Dante's eyes starting to water a bit (it'd be a bit more noticeable if the vid was higher-quality); you can tell that Hohenheim's words stung pretty hard. Edit: I just realized that she abandoned all of her ex-husbands, yet she cried when Hohenheim implied he never loved her. Now she knows how all of her exes felt.
The 2003 anime has his moments, when i was young i hated this bc it has no happy ending like broterhood but , now that im an adult came back here and say , wow that shit was R A D
LOL realistic. That's funny. What about how the hommunculi were created in 03? You mean to tell me that literally anyone could create a homunculus at any time if all they do is commit the taboo? Pretty convenient that only 7 people in the whole world committed the taboo so that they could stick with the 7 deadly sins thing. What if an 8th homunculus appeared? Brotherhood is better. 03 destroyed what the hommunculi were supposed to be and made them nowhere near as vital to the story overall.
@@samfisher3575 You completely missed the point. Did you actually watch the show? The show implied that there are more homunculi, as anyone with enough skill and knowledge can attempt human transmutation. Dante FINDS or CREATES seven of them, gives them names of the deadly sins, and gives them red stones so they can actually live. This was outright shown and stated in the anime. We see this when she finds Sloth after she was created. The point wasn't that there was only seven at any given time, just that Dante only takes seven under her. The homunculi in 2003 have far greater significance than in the manga/Brotherhood because they are the representation of the sins of the alchemists who created them, and because of that have their own wills and goals which makes them far interesting than just one-dimensional creations by a typical villain like Father. The homunculi in 2003 were incredibly vital. Envy, Lust, Sloth, Greed and Wrath alone prove that. What Greed got Ed to do to him was an entire turning point for Ed's character. Go back and actually watch 2003 before attempting to criticize it.
@@samfisher3575 lol did you even watch the show? it was stated that they were found by dante and then we given by those crystal meth to become the seven deadly sins
Lots of comments here about what a bitch Hohenheim is in FMA 03... And yes, he really is. I dunno though, the character somehow still works for me, it's hard to articulate why. Maybe it just feels like a man powerful enough to transmute fucking light particles into soldiers suffering from crippling fear and self-doubt and regret feels like an interesting, if tragically short-lived character study. I'm disappointed he didn't have more going on in this series. I like that he's not really a good guy, that he's kind of selfish, that he's insecure, all that business. I like that he's responsible for Envy and all kinds of other stuff.
He's a not deep or well fleshed out but people seem to give him a pass because he told Edward that he didn't deserve sons like Ed and Al... yeah, no shit. He's a horrible character.
Nightman221k terrible "person", not a terrible character. Besides, Von Hohenhiem is too romanticized and pure. Hohenhiem of Light feels like the tale of a *man*, impure as he is, even his name is ironic. For all the atrocities he's responsible for; corrupting Dante, creating the Stone, transferring bodies and the creation of his first born son's homunculus; at least he's interesting.
Think what you want, but I think you're misreading Van Hohenheim. He's not a pure, romanticized character. He has deep self-loathing and you can see that in how he was distant from his sons and didn't see himself as human anymore and didn't think his presence would benefit the boys when he was gone, and his actions had consequences that he saw and felt the gravity of. He saw how much his sons cared about him and wanted him in their lives. It's actually pretty painful when you realize that what he wanted all along was to have a family and when he got it he had to leave. That and he's someone who grew up a slave and then became a vessel for the souls of half a kingdom, his life was pretty messed up. He's an incredibly interesting character to analyze. Hohenheim of Light, admittedly, has a lot of qualities that could make him an interesting and compelling character but he wasn't well explored as a character by comparison. His actions aren't really delved into outside the scene where he and Dante talk about it. We don't even really get to see other characters react to the extent of his past. That and his actions are random, he leaves Trisha and the boys when he starts to rot and we are left assuming he never even told Trisha why he left or what he was. That's deceptive and cruel and doesn't show he's changed much just cause he met Trisha. He royally screwed over his first wife and child and then he set his other wife and son up for grief too. It wouldn't be so bad if the show acknowledged that he was shitty in doing that but I got the impression that the 03 anime wanted to make Hohenheim of Light sympathetic when they showed the flashback of him with the boys and Trisha then peacing out when he gets rotty. Then in "Our World" he wanders off and leaves Ed again. He's just a loser and a deadbeat. He doesn't even try to understand his boys or be a part of their lives. Tell me why should I care about this guy when the show attempts to make it seem like I should without putting forward much effort in making him worthy of it?
pretty interesting how they were normal humans during the time of the witchhunts. their actions basically reflect the mentality people back then had toward alchemy and eternal life. That is, they thought it was truly attainable.
It's pretty depressing on how people think that being a better person translates automatically into being a better character. We would have no interesting anti-heroes whatsoever if we all followed that rule
Yeah but Hohenheim in this has a rushed character arc. He is poorly developed in this 03 version and it really becomes annoying when the show tries to play him off as important and stuff.
@@Laiser I think he's been given as much screen time as he deserves. I don't think Hohenheim is a badly written character arc. In 03 He morally a broken man. He not tries to justify himself before sons, because understands that he deserved their hatred (at least hatred from Edward). He silently goes to Dante to force stop to hunt on his sons. I like the way his character arc ends. The way he uses the metaphor of equivalent exchange. He says he's glad that an equivalent exchange is a lie, because he shouldn't demand anything from his children in return for his love for them. In my opinion, this one phrase has more weight than the entire arc of the character of Hohenheim from Broho.
The hate for this version of Hohenhiem ironically proves that this version of the character had a far greater impact on people then the one in Brotherhood. A father who abandons his children because of his own fear is not something most people can accept if they are trying to watch something to escape from reality.
let me explain why her body rotting,the immortality is lie.she transfer her to new body but she also leavr peace of her soul,as you know she had been done it again and again.until the soul her reduce is so small that it cannot support new body
Headcanon: The underground city beneath Central is named Shamballa by its residents who escaped from the witch hunts on our Earth via transmuting themselves to escape through their own Gates. In this case the Elric Bros were British-Amestrians. This makes them illegal immigrants in Germany
Yea I love 03 and it's a 10/10 but another 5 episodes at the end with more on their origin, a whole episode of them in the past and more with Hohenheim would have been great. A prequel series leading up to the creation of the first philosophers stone would have been amazing
Maybe I'm just being nostalgic because I grew up on the 2003 series but I always thought Dante was a scarier villian. Father felt a little comical near the end but Dante was just scary as she got desperate.
Hell no. Father was FAR from "comical" at all at the end. Not in anyway. The whole point of the character is a being who wanted to obtain absolute knowledge through pure objective cold science and reason as a means to be make up for the freedom of course to do whatever he can possibly do just because he can. Which makes him a perfect foil for edward and Honheniem who learn everything that father does not that cold logic and science isn't the absolute way to solve all problems or make you truly happy. Piss off with that "comical near the end" comment right there.
@@gonzaloNMF LMAO WHAT THE HELL? What the hell are you even talking about? NOTHING was “comical”? What? In what way? It’s been massively established that these creatures have true appearances since their not human at all so no duh There was never a “this isn’t even my final form” transition that wasn’t obvious that these characters made it extremely clear on which would be their true forms at all. You make no sense!
I've always loved both of the FMA, but I've always seen the 2003 adaption as more... realistic. In comparison to Brotherhood, this one just feels more real; like this can actually happen. I think it's because of the bittersweet ending that it has. The brothers are reunited in the end, but at the cost of losing their original home. I also think that the 2003 adaption is more intimate with its characters given that it's a shorter list when compared to Brotherhood. It casts a larger role with Hues and gives the other homunculus more humane characteristics or motives.
The interesting thing is I think Dante’s actions and motives remind me more of a spoiler from a non anime series. Basically it was inspired by a short story by Jorge Luis Borges where a civilization of immortals had become moral and human zombies. Immortality rotted Dante’s moral obligations into being emotionally dead to suffering and caring for others similar to the people in that civilization where they lived in the crumbled ruins of a once thriving world. Dante’s in a similar metaphorical situation where her lack of humanity and comprehension eroded with her hatred for humans and thus wishing to become their God.
Dante reminds me of Katerina Petrova from the tv series the vampire diaries, she was a doppleganger, and she was going to be sacrificed to break a curse, she manipulated a vampire to became a vampire as well, doing that she thought she had more chances to survive but Klaus needed her to still be human because vampirism negated her doppleganger blood, from that day Klaus went after her to kill her for ruining his plans. Katerina only goal was survival and spent hundreds of years hiding, manipulating people and killing them, her new goal was to become truly immortal with the sole purpose to survive. She couldnt do it, she died, the only person who truly loved her was her daughter and even though they both died the same day she wasnt going to go the same place as her daughter's when she died, because of all her deeds she went to the darkness... some kind of hell.
@@The_darkest_dandy666 I don't think the possibility didn't occur to Dante during her 400 years, or more realistically, the writers. But consider how the main drive of the Homunculi throughout the whole series was to become human. There must be something about that form that is not as cool as it seems from our point of view. Even Greed, "the perfect shield" wanted to stop being a homunculus. One could also say "Well then, why didn't she perform a soul binding like Al, who is practically immortal?" But is that really how you want to live your immortality? Not sleeping, drinking of sleeping around? I wouldn't
I always liked to think this took place in an alternate universe where a vast amount of people actually died in the witch trials, instead of people pretending they did.
+NothingPosted905 then the prophecies were real! *picks up the phone* it's me. the prophecy about john titor's successor seem to be real. WHAT!? WE HAVE NO BACKUP PLAN? alright, i'll figure out something. after all this is Steins Gate's choice. El Psy Congroo
People can say what they will about 03 but man did it make the Philosopher's Stone such a threat and major plot element. They started to become a dime a dozen in Brotherhood. Lol
I don't get why she was so hated. Honestly she seems more sympathetic all she ever wanted was to spend eternity with the one she loved and he stopped loving her once she found the answer. True her methods were horrible but its not like they both werent looking and didnt both use it. However he cast her aside and she forever kept chasing.
That background theme always stuck with me but I never actually went and listened to it again after I watched the first FMA anime 10 years ago. I guess I'll watch it again to get it this time I was too young to realise what was happening when I first watched it. Also I liked how despite the second half diverging from the manga the anime actually remained to be pretty good, at least if anything it didn't just end or had a terrible ending.
I mean. It’s not about the time duration spent it’s how it’s spent. Then again it could be worse. Could be ezra miller’s The Flash and spending decades trying to save two people and still hadn’t learned how to phase properly in all that time.
she lied just to cover her tracks, she knew how to make one, it’s just the dangers that came with creating one, sacrificing thousands to millions of human lives in a transmutation circle array citywide, countrywide or even worldwide, this is extremely dangerous and deadly, and therefore takes many years of planning and manipulation, there is a reason why Lust eventually switched up on Dante near the end, because like how you cannot bring the dead back to life, there is no other way for any of the homunculi to become human, mass genocide is not done overnight
immortality? not really for example someone targets her let's say with a sniper rifle headshots her so if she doesn't see it coming she dies from the headshot she would survive something like that if she was truly immortal
The body you see him in now is the one Dante transferred his soul to. You don't see his original face clearly, which adds to the effectiveness of the scene.
I think it’s interesting they came from their worlds medieval Europe and they were Christians originally and this religion died out behind their gate. My boy Hoenheim really didn’t love Dante and forsakes their child only for him to die and be brought back as Envy the original FMA was just as much God Tier as Brotherhood.
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 Basically all the bloodshed and death was started by Dante and her cronies so she can drive someone crazy enough to make a Philosopher's Stone, steal it, and use it keep herself alive and cause more suffering to start all over. Just like Scar's Brother in this version of the story. All those people died, so this evil bitch can live it up. It's sick.
@@EmptyMan000 Definitely bro. It's heartbreaking. And all the tragedy Scar and his people have to suffer along with sacrificing himself to create the stone is soooo sad 😭😭😭
Not really, FMC: Brotherhood the father doesnt make more sense then this 1. In this its more plausible since there were real elite witches during the salam witch trials that condemed innocent people as witches when in reality they were. So basically it makes sense while a powerful alchemist like hoenhiem working with dante and that other rich guy who hoenhiem recieved the body of were using condemed prisoners and plauge patients for their experiments. Government or the elite using those condemed by society fpr their owm malicious experiments is nothing new.
Mathew Williams Yeah, in Brotherhood he left to counter Father's plan. In this show he left because....... he was too much of a pussy to tell the truth about his body to Trisha.
eeeeeh father creating the whole country to use it as a giant transmutation circle is more interesting in my books. also he starts (in the serie) with dantes end game, an inmortal body.
@@BioMatic2 Except the reason Father needed to create Amestris to use as a giant transmutation circle is because no transmutation circles,no human sacrifices,no human sacrifices,no Philosopher`s Stones,no Philosopher`s Stones,no Homunculi.(So in both series,the Homunculi were dependent on the very humans they look down upon,the difference is the 2003 ones knew it whilst the Manga/Brotherhood ones were stupid and in denial about it until the protagonists and Truth forced them to recognize that fact!)
If there was a live action TV series, I would mix Dante and father's character together, dante being a humunculus dwarf in the flask before van hohenheim and the destruction of xerxes, which gives her a female body whom van hohenheim initially fell in love with and entered into a whirl-wind romance with her that would give birth to a child. This child and them lived happily till the child died of mercury poisoning and van hohenheim would try to use human transmutation to bring the child back. Creating a deformed and bloody humanoid with a piece of the childs soul still inside him. envy is the first human based humunculus, unable to face up to what he had done to his son, van hohenheim would abandon both dante and envy. Envy would be a malformed humanoid form for a few years, unable to speak, but constantly bleeding and crying as Dante rearranged his body with all the skill of a mad chiropractor, feeding him small fragments of her Philosopher's Stone every few days to relieve the pain just enough for him to sleep until she discovered how to make mass quantities through the slaughter of many, which allowed him to take on a proper human shape and finally take away the physical pain, the abandonment of hohenheim and envy's creation would cause dante to decide to absorb god and creates amestris exactly for that purpose after she discovers that her container(body) won't last forever, so she decides to strike down god and become immortal. Envy's hatred for his father and need to kill him would be intact and it will be his main goal. Whereas the rest just want to serve Dante in her quest to absorb God, envy wants to kill van hohenheim. His hatred for doctor Marco being rooted in the fact that all alchemist remind him of his father. His killing of the ishvallan girl being rooted in intense jealousy of seeing her with her parents. His hatred for Edward being rooted in the fact that the elric brothers received the fatherly love that he never did. I mixed the strong elements of 2003 and brotherhood...the uniqueness, plot function, philosophy, and endgame of the original father...and the twisted dark personal history and relationship with van hohenheim that dante has....envy being a plus Creating a singular strong character.
The violet eyes are a Philosopher`s Stone side effect.Dante`s eyes were most likely originally blue like Wrath`s started out as but like her homunculi,the natural eye color of Dante`s host body or in The Homunculi`s case the person who was transmuted to create them was turned violet(Or in Lust`s case since she was originally Ishbalan)magenta by the blood of the human lives within the Red Stones. I`m guessing Gluttony`s eyes were pupilless due to the sheer amount of human lives he`s consumed due to his voracious nature!
One bad thing of the original Hohenheim was that he took the role of Father and knowingly sacrificed lives to create the Philosopher’s Stone to begin with He only changed by experiencing long life and falling in love with the right woman In contrast Brotherhood Hohenheim never asked for either the Philosopher’s Stone or immortality for himself, and made most of his long life from the get go, by comforting and bonding with the souls of his philosopher’s stone and worked to stop Father by making his reverse transmutation circle to counter Father’s Plan Falling in love and having a family brought even more of the best in him, and really started to live his life there Don’t get my wrong the original Hohenheim was still good, as he was a redeemed by love and same to see it was all a mistake later on in life While Dante refused to change and became unstable
Dante's plan is super unsustainable. Each bodies decays faster than the last. Even if she got another stone, how could she ever hope to keep going? At some point, her new body, will completely decay, as soon as she enters it, and will die. If she wanted eternal life maybe she could attached her soul to an inanimate object, like Al. But then she couldn't fuck, as she seems to be somewhat of a nymphomaniac.
@Emma Petersen You know part of me wished she'd actually address it for once but it really spoke to the character and overall plot that she'd deflect to another topic. She was that scared and in denial of the truth. Makes sense sgger enjoying immortality for 400 years
That's cause you're a person of quality. Brotherhood is amazing but damn if its not the code geass of the fma series. This is closer to the writing of death note.
hohenheim aint really a good guy either tbh, he sacrificed countless lives for the philosopher stone when he was with dante, and then he left her without even explaining why it seems
@TheMegaUzumaki Yeah I Know,... I just think that he wouldn't ADMIT It to anyone other than hohenheim Keep in mind that 400 years later he had no qualms about sucking the souls dry
Dante... Such a lovable villain. The name fits her personality so well for some strange reason. Eerie as that is she's one of the best characters ever written
this FMA is defiantly better the villain's better the tone stays the same through out the twists are more shocking and better executed the mystery behind the gate is more interesting soundtrack's also better I gotta give props for the orignal story it feels like a dark shein at the end well brothood feels like a it get's more and more like a shonen battle anime at the end with more traditonal anime trops and a predictable happy ending FMAB wasn't as much as an emotional rollcostar as FMA was FMA2003 felt more grounded and moving well FMAB took the safe route besides hughs and nina it felt like the author was playing it safe not wanting to kill off any more main cast original is better and cooler everyone things brothehood's better just because it's the original manga well FA's a better story overall and did anyone else think it annoying that the philosophers stone was all built up to be some legendary thing that was almost impossible to get you're hands on that they thought it only a myth yet there were like 4 or 5 in brotherhood
+tyler bregg >Criticizes FMA:B for being too shonen >Has One Piece avatar smh Also, tons of main characters are killed in Brotherhood. Bido, Fu, Buccaneer, Greed, Hohenheim, Gluttony, Envy, Kimblee, Bradley, Raven, Barry the Chopper, Hughes, etc etc. Did you even pay attension to the story?
ugh I did but character's die in shonen storys to you know ace almost every flash back char in one piece SPOILER's btw neji jaraya more flashback chars bleach had a few to just because chars die dosen't make the show good FMA feels dark and dramatic with a really big storyline going through out and the philosophers stone is so mysterious and feels so far out of reach in FMA B we get like 3 or more of them mustangs isbhal backstory and how whinrys parents died is done much better and more dramatically the ending for scar feels like it fits this kind of show the 4th lab was much more interesting and the battles in FMA feel more like fights to farther the plot and not just have a fight scene with multiple chars to show off the animation plus FMA B's animation style for the humor scenes change at the drop of a hat it clashes with the mood of the show professorial reviwers say it lot's of people I've shown it to say it FMA B seems like a shonen trying to be a senien it's only super dark in the first half which FMA does better also
tyler bregg lol Flashback characters don't count. I'm talking about characters that are actually part of the present-time plot. And most of the characters who die in the shonen shows you mention get revived when they're needed for the plot again. And even then, you're basically contradicting yourself, because one flashback in Brotherhood shows an entire nation dying horribly. You say characters dying doesn't make the show good. Yet in your earlier comment, you posted that Arakawa was too afraid to kill off main characters (even though she wasn't, see my previous comment for examples) The philosopher's stone is produced in mass numbers in Brotherhood because it's all a ploy by Father to fuel the state alchemist's power to help them commit mass genocide. The plot in this version just called for more stones. I will admit though that lab 5 and Mustang's flashback were very good, and one of the few things the original has over Brotherhood. Winry's subplot is handled horribly in the original though. She comes to know about it, brushes it off like nothing and then later teases Mustang on the matter. Whereas in Brotherhood she has a very realistic reaction, confronts her parent's killers twice, only the second time, she doesn't forgive him, but comes to terms with their death. Scar's end, although heartwarming, was kinda BS. I'm surprised he was even able to survive that long, much less walk around, after taking so many shots to the chest and losing both his fucking arms. This show's narrative in general was a mess. I don't think there was a single fight in Brotherhood that didn't add something to the plot. And yeah, they're beautifully choreographed and animated too. The animation inconsistency disappeared after season 1. And I could easily make the argument that the original had more inconsistency. Characters very often appeared to be off-model. I don't think the humour bothered me that much. It showed that humans, even at the darkest of times, are still able to joke around. Most people prefer Brotherhood. As far as critics go, I'd say it's about 50-50. I've seen plenty of professional critics criticize the original for having a wonky narrative and hamfisted melodrama, especially in the second half. Also, you seem to be under the delusion that dark = better. I can assure you that this, infact, is very untrue. .
ugh options won't differ though arguing flame wars never cease what I mean is FMAB feels much lighter in tone 1. they don't go very deep detail about the isbal war 2. the animation changes for comedic affect change faster then the release date for the five nights at freddys series 3. the dramatic deaths don't have the same mood of impact as some character die much sooner we wouldn't have been as devastated if we didn't watch the 2003 version 4. FMAB has more action in it that's not a bad thing however it feels like a shonen with lots of 3 to 4 way battles 5.FMA has a lot more NO melodramatic drama and it doesn't have so many different important character's that make it seem kinda crowded 6. ed al and mustang get way more development even if they're just humcli ed kills 2 even one that looks like his mother and at the end his beliefs of equivalent exchange are challenged alot with the revelation on how alchemy gets it's energy and his dialog with Dante Mustang give into revenge and the series stops preaching that revenge is wrong which really pissed me off all in all I like FMA better the tone is constant not focusing on a bunch of different characters only the ones they know you'll like and when I said they're to scared to kill off chars i meant main ones like armstrong ling izumo any other important char we really care about
tyler bregg Your One Piece is also a very relatively lighthearted show. Are you going to say that it's an inferior form of entertainment just because of that reason alone? 1. They still shed plenty of light on the Ishval war in Brotherhood. You get to see more of Mustang, Hughes, Hawkeye and Armstrong's actively taking part in large genocide and hearing their thoughts on the matter. In the original, you only really see Mustang's POV. 2.Once again, they stop with the sudden animation changes after Greed 1.0 bites the dust. And don't go pretending that the original didn't have those weird chibi moments either. 3. That's because the 2009 show came out at a time when the original series were still fresh on people's minds. Everyone knew about Fullmetal Alchemist back then. They didn't want people to get the impression that Brotherhood was going to be a rehash of the 2003 series, so they sped up events to get to the new material. The first 10 episodes are basically nothing more than a recap of the first 25 episodes of the original series. 4. *facepalm* FMA:B IS A FUCKING SHONEN YOU DUNCE! YOU'RE LITERALLY CRITICIZING A SHONEN FOR HAVING ACTION! THAT'S LIKE COMPLAINING ABOUT A HENTAI HAVING TOO MUCH SEX! 5. FMA 2003 had tons of melodrama in the second half. It's one of the reasons why some people didn't like it. It's okay to have mentally vulnerable characters, but when they ONLY focus on the drama, it loses it's impact after a while. Having more characters is a good thing because it enriches the plot. Plus, if you're not interested in the Elric bros, you always have the Xingese characters. And if you don't find them appealing, then there's always the Briggs ones. I also liked that Brotherhood gave it's side characters much more to do. It adds more variety and shows that the whole world doesn't revolve around the Elrics. 6. I do agree that Edward was a really good character in the 2003 series. Alphonse though was a dense idiot, only acting as Ed's second hand man and getting any real development in the final episode. He was much more independent, badass and had more common sense in Brotherhood. Hated that Mustang basically threw away his dream to get revenge in the 2003 series. A really petty reason and something that's definitely not 'deep', no matter how much you claim it is. I'm glad that he had people to steer him in the right direction in Brotherhood. He was basically torturing Envy at that point, inflicting on him a slow and painful death. It would've been okay if he just killed him quickly and got it over with. But he was basically taking *pleasure* in killing him. Can you blame Hawkeye for snapping some sense into him? Him going ape shit on Envy's ass was more satisfying than him defeating Bradley, and that too, only due to a dues ex machina. Hohenheim and Greed were pretty big players who died in Brotherhood. And I could just as well say that the writers of 2003 series were too pussy to kill off Mustang, especially after he got shot IN DA FUCKING EYE DAMMIT!
The only thing that I remember about this anime is that conversation that Dante(?) had with Ed(?) where the room was rotating like crazy. I don't even remember if it was the two of them talking and I don't even remember what they were talking about. I just remember the vertigo that it gave me.
He must of not truly ever loved or trusted her because why else would she not know how to make the stone when she was by his side at the time it was made?
+Lucan Stone (Your Black Protoman) Lyra didn't deserve having her pretty body hijacked! She should've either ran away or traveled with the Elric brothers.
I know wjat u mean. The reason is that sad and somber personality matches this character. This character design isnt good for battle or energetic scenes. Its for a sad and despair like scenes whivh is why in Brotherhood it totally ruined his character.
It kinda might be a good thing that Trisha passed on because even though she is dead, you can tell Dante is fiercely still jealous of her and despises her for winning his love. I could see Dante torturing her.
Well um.... She's there.
I mean Trishi became a homunculus in this series
@@alchemistofsteel8099 Actually, it's never truly confirm is the homunculie are indeed their "past selves" resurected or if they are something else interaly!
You can easily imagine Dante using Trisha as a new body for her soul to transfer, to torment both Hoenheim and Elric Brothers, but honestly, that would've been too dark even for 2003
@@mr.mystery9940 Maybe she would do that to impersonate Trisha and win back Hohenheim's love (though that wouldn't last long)?
Dante: "well, why don't you help me enjoy this new body"
10 years later and only Now do i REALLY know what she means ...
Family Picture!
She thirsty.
LUST too strong.
LudicrousKid Lust isn’t that strong she was pinned up against the wall 😂
@@ethoncharles2386 Different lust bruh! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
It’s fucked, in a sense, Hohenheim is Ed and Al’s father, but he isn’t as well. Soul wise, he’s their father, and body wise he’s not, so whoever’s body it was that Hohenheim put himself into, that person either died, or was trapped in some way. And the unlucky person ended up being Ed and Al’s biological father, and didn’t know it, his body was taken and that’s it.
Crazy right
luckily the brothers faces resemblance is their mothers
That's a good point. What happens to the original person? I thought their mind becomes taken over in a sense. Like they no longer exist but it's not actual death if that makes sense. Idk
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 I was thinking that the original person’s soul is trapped and forced to watch Hohenheim take the body over, like in Get Out. Either that, or the Hohenheim is able to transform the host body to look like his original one.
@@SusGuido After doing a ton of research and being unable to find anything, my hypothesis (lol) is that the original person's soul is either 100% suppressed aka dormant or permanently extinguished. Because if the soul was still active like in Get Out, it would make sense they'd try and fight against the foreign soul and that would mean Dante and Hohenheim would at times have to fight to maintain control, which would be the price of their "immortality." But since they don't have to fight, I'm guessing the soul again is dormant or extinguished and that's why their body rots. Because the original soul is either not active or gone therefore the foreign soul is like a virus and the body's way of fighting it is that rot since the original soul isn't able to do that job. Like white blood cells attacking a virus.
Dante, there's no such thing as eternal life...
Damn.
yo when he said that I was stuck I was like that's so deep....I wish I could act like this in a play or something. ...It's so good
+Terique Hall Exactly.
Jubilee For real mane
Well it's true
blew our fuckin minds when he said that. Y'all have no idea what it was like to experience this show in real time. Now everyone is like "greatest anime ever" but back then, you felt like you were watching something transcendent.
I like how the this ties the whole "granting eternal life" aspect of the philosophers stone into the story, but in a way that evokes revulsion. Immortality is a lot less pleasant when you spend it wearing a decaying meat suit.
Jerry Hu Cause it's not immortality. It's just staving off Death for a few more seconds.
parkerboy795 You know what he meant. An immortality of sorts more or less
rloul1 I know. It just reminds of a scene in Batman Beyond where Bruce calls out Ras al Ghuls desperation to avoid death and takes back his words saying he doesn't cheat death or in Ras words, mastered it. He whimpers in fear of it.
@@parkerboy795 yeah plus minus 400 years
@@archilarkania7203 hey I'd take 400 hundred more years! Drive around in some flying cars with my alien homies! Lol
Lust: "guess I'll just stay up here"
I was thinking that too
You know she doesn’t have a choice
The reason Lust isn’t able to move is because those spear things are piercing the nodes on her arms, rendering her immobile.
@CipherRage-tp5ql*Rimshot!*
Cant see the spears cuz of rendering and awful bitrate
Dude 2003 is just so sick because of the personal stakes of the narrative. Their father, one of the main reasons the story exists is a former lover of the final boss as it were. It's just so sick that Ed and Al's last test is effectively against their step-mother and I think there's something inherently interesting about that.
1:16
Hohenheim: Why are you telling me this? I was there.
Dante: Shut up! This is my big villain moment, don’t ruin it for me!
She was enlightening Lust and Gluttony.
William Levart she was clearly talking to Hoenheim, but I was just making a joke. Anyway, I think Lust and Gluttony just listened in like “okay she’s monologuing, better pay attention”
It's been centuries ! XD How else one greets a fellow sinner ? XD
@@EikeKusch776 I don't think Gluttony cares any of this but ok lol. Made my day.
@@KoKoYoung Gluttony: -"Interesting...[chewing on Dante's dress]
Father and Dante are two different shades of Lovecraftian Horror.
Father is an abomination of god-like power, who use ill-inspired cultist for his schemes of world-shattering aim. He's fundamentally unlike humans, being devoid of their empathy and wanting to be without sins. Basically, he is the Dunwich Horror with more brains
Dante, at the opposite, is very human. She was born one, and has the most basic human fear, the fear of death. The horror lies in what she is ready to do to live again and again, to wich degree she is ready to degrade her soul. At the time of her destruction, she's a complete monster, having none of her humanity left. As her speech shows, she only think in term of survival, like an animal. There's a big "The Thing on the Doorstep" vibe from her.
Remind me was the thing on the doorstep the one where someone kept themselves alive with a Air conditioner?
@@vincegalila7211 Nope, the one when guy passes into his daughter's body then tries to take over her husband's body.
@@TheFiresloth oh Ok
Thats a great way of presenting it
Disagree Dante is a messily written villain that goes for the humans are the real Monsters and the plot hits you over the head with It somewhat pretentiously (granted i get the impression It probably wasn't intebtional)
Oh humanity repeats it's mistakes continously, war is for the profit of a little few, oh look at how "vile" Dante is
Like I think most people get the message fma 2003
The manga is better than this anime
Like a villain DOESN'T have to BE HUMAN TO REINFORCE HIS HUMAN VICES! It's not as Deep as some seem to Think It is
And I also disagree with her being lovecraftian
She's more of a lich honestly
Fun fact: she and May Chang from Brotherood share the same voice actress, Monica Rial
As do Brotherhood's Lan Fan and this version's Wrath . Well, a japanese VA...But still.
Super fun fact! Monica Rial accused Vic Mongogna (Edwards voice) of sexual harassment.
@@Laiser fun fact:there is more proof supporting vic than actual proof of vic arming someone
Jaden Curtis I was so happy when I recognized wrath’s voice in Truth.
I stand by Vic
so basically Dante and Hohenhiem are cowards that not only fear death by body hopping throughout the century, but never actually know how to love anyone else let alone respect the life of others. Hohenhiem is the only one who learned a harsh truth of life after failing his original son (envy) and marrying Trisha Elric along with having another pair of kids with her.
Dante is one of the best villains in anime.
But no one speaks about her
What a Shame!
Because Dante it's my favorite anime villaness of all time!
She is better than father, has a great and selfish plan, she is the maleficent of the anime universe and inspires pure evil when she is around
This would be my top of my favorite female anime antagonists of all time:
1.-Dante (FMA 2003)
2.-Queen Nehelenia (Sailor Moon Super S and Sailor Stars)
3.-Sailor Galaxia (Sailor Moon: Sailor Stars)
4.-Debonair (Magic Knight Rayearth Season 2)
5.-Aya Tokoyogi (Strike The Blood)
6.- Yuno Gasai (Mirai Nikki)
Her backstory coupled with the music theme still makes me shiver, she's a terrific villain
Music fits this scene soo good
Mr. Bleach // It’s Dante’s theme.
Everyone calls Dante crazy. Evil. Cowardly for her miserable life. And it really is. And also everyone believes that Hohenheim left her for this very reason.
But... Let's not confuse cause and effect.
What was Dante originally like? We can learn this from her own words in the following dialogue:
"Al: - Dante, why did you decide to become an alchemist?
Dante: - Well, the reason was quite ordinary. I just wanted to help people. People need alchemy. Although this does not mean that you can not do without it. And yet, alchemy helps to make people happy. It would be nice if the efforts of those who strive for happiness were always rewarded. That's how I thought."
Why do I think she was telling the truth? Because her current views are literally saturated with nihilism, rejection of people. Only a person who was once sincerely (and naively) convinced of the opposite can come to such a pronounced nihilism.
But apparently, at some point she met Hohenheim and fell in love with him... And instead of helping people, she blindly helped him in all his apparently scientific affairs. In the creation of the Philosopher's stone in particular.
They have ruined many lives for their own purposes.
I believe that the main initiator of the search for the philosopher's stone was Hohenheim. But Dante looks in this case like the one who just blindly follows her beloved.
And so, her lover almost died. She can't let him die. She saves him, at the cost of someone else's life. Let's be honest, quite a few of us would have done the same.
And what's next? They live together like lovers. Dante gives birth to a child from Hohenheim. They raised him for 18 years until he died... Then they decide to revive his son, but only a homunculus, the future Envy, is born. And what does Hohenheim do? He's just... Left Dante. He left his son. Yes, it was a homunculus, but so what? He was aware of himself as the son of Hohenheim. Envy felt like the same person, had all his memories.
Envy felt almost the same as Edward, being also abandoned by the same father.
Dante... Can you imagine how she felt? Left alone in such a situation, being no longer with the most stable mind, it is natural that she went completely mad. And all why? Because Hohenheim is a coward. He did not take responsibility for the Envy. He did not take responsibility for the one who sincerely loves him. He left Dante literally in Hell. Alone. She was left by the man she loved, whose life she once saved at the cost of another person's life. I don't think many people can boast that they could have kept their sanity in such a situation.
And what do we see after 400 years?
Both continue to jump from one body to the other. Dante has finally become disillusioned with humanity, and out of her despair continues to prolong her meaningless life. And Hohenheim does the same. Moreover, unlike his magnificent version from the Brotherhood, the Hohenheim of Light did not dare to tell Trisha the whole truth about himself. And again he abandoned his sons. It's funny to realize that Edward and Envy have a lot in common in this regard. They are even more brothers than one could imagine.
And the most disgusting thing is that Hohenheim has not learned lessons from the past. What does he do when he meets Lieutenant Maria Ross? He's fucking flirting with her! Moreover, seeing that she takes it seriously. He just keeps playing with people's feelings. Knowing that he had once driven Dante to madness with such irresponsibility. And at the same time, later hypocritically declaring to Dante that he is married when she hints to him about "testing her new young body."
And then their dialogue, which finally makes it clear what a pathetic person Hohenheim is.
"Hohenheim: - Trisha was the FIRST and ONLY woman I ever loved"
Dante: - Really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you whisper tender words of love to me four centuries ago
Hohenheim: "Let's not talk about it..."
Very nasty of him.
If Van Hohenheim is a hero, then the Hohenheim of Light is an irresponsible coward who simply abandoned everyone when anyone needed him. Someone who has not learned any lessons from his mistakes, and continues to take people's lives.
And Dante... Yes, she has turned into a monster who has lost all the positive part of her humanity. And even in this situation, it is clear that she still retains feelings for Hohenheim and her pain. Almost perfectly hiding it behind his monster disguise.
If you look at it this way, then Dante is a woman with a very sad fate.
Therefore, it is fundamentally wrong to say that Hohenheim left her because she is insane. Cause and effect should not be confused.
Pretty interesting take; I guess Dante asking Hohenheim why he abandoned her wasn't just her playing the victim card.
I agree. They are both horrible people.
Van Hohenheim isn't any better. He couldn't even write his abandoned family a letter.
@@loyisad1211 He may have kept his distance because had he have written them, he probably would have felt compelled to return home but he couldn’t given the circumstances. He had to stop Father. Poor guy already didn’t want to leave in the first place and he never had a family before so his “neglect” for his family is honestly not far from understanding.
Hohenheim was one to always abandon his “problems” or his loved ones. Even in fmab he’s not any different. The reason why he was upset at Edward when he came back to a burned down house and his sons tragic accident, was the same reason he was upset with himself. Abandonment.
Full metal: there’s no such thing as eternal life
Brotherhood: immortality successfully and ideally achieved.
Well technically they'll (Father the Homunculi) will run out of juice one it might take eons but it's inevitable.
Not really, in one way or the other the stones will run out and a person will die, if anything in the 03 anime there were no side effects of Al soul being in an armor while in brotherhood he could die at any moment due his body and soul being uncompatible
@@carmena.gonzalezrios8372 There's still the problem with the blood seal
No side effects ? The kid can't even fucking feel any sensation when he touches stuff !
@John Jaxson Yeah but that doesn't last for long
Dante, there's no such thing as eternal life
Mikhael37 60th like
That line always gives me chills
You know Dante I'm convinced that witch they were hunting for were you
Same
Too bad she didn't hang back then..
To be fair back at that time Hohenheim was much more evil then Dante.
This version of FMA had an incredible development, it always kept us asking logical questions.
I feel that for all of Dante's big talk about humans being fools and equivalent exchange being a lie, she herself is nothing more than a coward and a parasite.
All she does is just prolong her existence, but for what reason? She doesn't do anything. She has no endgame. All she does is waste countless lives to evade death- She survives, but she doesn't live. Once Dante transfers to another body, all she does is exist, hopping from vessel to vessel with no goal or endgame in sight. Even Father at least had a goal and dream that was somewhat meaningful.
Dante, though? She just drains from society to prolong her existence but does nothing to contribute, just spending her days in her mansion lavishly and not really helping anyone. Her life has become so empty and meaningless and she's an even bigger hypocrite than Father.
TheMegaUzumaki Even that’s just a lie and she knows it, though- If she REALLY wanted to keep them from the stone, she wouldn’t be actively manipulating and guiding them to its creation in the first place.
That's the whole point. Dante represents how selfish and how glutonous humans can be
She even dies consumed by Gluttony himself
Because 03 isn't about how the 'power of friendship' can overthrow any enemy (even if he's literally god and could've killed everybody loong ago, but for some reason, the 400 yold super intelligent being decides to keep their main enemies alive and well)...
it's about how far can humans go to achieve their own goals, and that redemption, sadly, isn't always possible. This whole theme IMO fits a lot more with Ed and Al's journey to get a philosopher stone. "Is it really worth it getting one?"
One can even say that, she also doesn't know why she is doing that. Maybe she believes there's nothing after death, or the worse case there's something after death (Kami) which will potentially punish her.
On the other hand, she was Izumi's alchemy teacher. Ironically, Elric Brothers might have improved themselves to a significant level due to Izumi's knowledge, which is passed on by Dante.
Dante enjoys the pleasures of life, her goal is simple enjoy life forever no matter how many people have to die to make it happen.
@TheMegaUzumaki Entitlement.
In Shonens Dante is a very unique character, primarily her simplicity (Unlike super-charismatic cyber-samurai with sharingans instead of eyes). Many will consider this a shortcoming of the script, but in fact it is a universal archetype - "Evil Devouring Mother" - a negative aspect of the maternal figure. For clarity, the most notable example of the embodiment of this image was in "Snow White". This is the Queen, Stepmother of Snow White. Dante in general can be called the stepmother of Ed and undoubtedly she is the Queen of her own kingdom (although the second is not so important). Just remember how she desperately fights for life and eternal beauty, and what she wants to do with Rosa (snow white). Of course, I'm far away from the archetype in general and went to the character of the queen, it's just an interesting parallels. But the root in both cases is the same.
When we think of Archetypes, we mostly talk about the unconscious. What is the essence of what we experience in relation to the mother? The personal experience of each individual is of course unique, but the archetype is the archetype that includes the most General idea. In the last analysis it is the magical authority of all that is feminine; wisdom and spiritual height beyond reason; something benign, something giving shelter, something fraught, bearing something, the giver of growth, fertility and sustenance; the place of magical re-realization and rebirth; a contributing and helping instinct or impulse. This is the positive aspect of the Archetype of mother that Trisha embodies.
Dante represents the aspect of the "Evil Devouring Mother" concealing something hidden, something dark-somnolent, the abyss, the world of the dead, something swallowing, seducing and poisoning, something exciting fear and inevitable. In the culture of this way embody the witch, dragon, any swallowing or wrapped around the animal victim, whether a big fish or a snake (Ouroboros).
In the context of the analysis of the image of Dante, I think it is important to note the role of the symbol of Ouroboros. I will not dwell on it, but it is a very important detail. Ouroboros is a symbol of the eternal cycle of rebirth. This very clearly illustrates, what represents from themselves Dante, which so many times changed bodies. Ouroboros also applies to homunculi. After all, a homunculus is the rebirth of another person. Hence the mark of Ouroboros.
Also Ouroboros has the meaning of the end of the world. He comes to the edge, biting its own tail. Literally devouring itself. What happened to Dante? It has reached the limit of its possibilities, its end is coming. What happened? The cause of her death was "gluttony" (this can be taken as a metaphor), which got out of her control. She literally devoured herself. Exactly like the Ouroboros. I really like the work of writers.
Summing up my thoughts, we can say that the final confrontation between Dante and Edward is a confrontation between Archaic and Modernism. Nature against Humanity. Archaic thinking presupposes the inseparability of man from nature. in Jung's typology, Dante is the "Evil Devouring mother", the Archetype of the mother is the personification of nature, matter, capable of both giving life and taking away. There is nothing spiritual about Dante. The more noticeable the physiology of her image. In scene the first meeting Dante with Hohenheim can be discern as she revels in own youth and offers "try new body", in the other scene she predatory looks on Rosa (more precisely on its body). She's also upset that she missed the opportunity to "enjoy the love (sex)" of Edward. This is a real animal, praising the frailty and meaninglessness of its existence. All the more vividly felt her absolutely animal fear of death. She is the personification of an ancient irrational fear and as a consequence of the evil generated by this fear. In a monologue with Edward, she literally says "Its cruel and random world and yet the chaos is all so beautiful". In her opinion, the cruelty of the world in the order of things-if we live in the jungle you need to be animals and live by the law of the jungle. This is Archaic thinking.
In this regard, it is especially ironic that her name is Dante. One of the main interpretations of Dante Alighieri's divine Comedy is the victory over death, over flesh, over earthly existence.
It's the exact opposite of Dante from FMA. She is afraid of death, strives to satisfy carnal desires, and she does not care about her own soul, because with every "jump" her soul is split. It's really funny. This contrast makes her character even more insignificant and alienating... But that in my opinion is the greatness of this character.
Liked because of the sheer effort put into this, you should try and write a published article with this kind of passion.
That way, you can at least get money out of it.
New to shonen?
Hah that's a bad joke
Someone seeking immortality is as old as time . The Epic of Gilgamesh has It for example
Like Dante isn't innovative , contrary to what some people appear to believe
That and the character was badly written
@@isauldron4337 My God, please turn on your brain and read my entire text. Dante is good not because she is deeply written, but because she is written to the extent that the overall canvas of the story takes on depth. That's what I wrote about. And all of Edward's journey is intertextual to Carl Gustav Jung's theory of individuation. Edward descends into the depths of the subconscious where the most suggestive archetypes of Anima (Rose) Devouring Mother (Dante) and Shadow (Envy) are hidden, literally descends into the underground city. So Yes. The Devouring Mother archetype is the archetype of material death and decay. This is Dante. Now think about why the story ends in a ballroom and Dante is wearing a Baroque dress.if you're interested I can tell you. In such details lies the depth of the story
@@astemirabazekhov9005 Tell us friend. Your analysis is amazing!
@@astemirabazekhov9005 Amazing Analysis 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯👏👏👏👏👏👏
I wish we had gotten more backstory with dante and hoenheim.
A prequel siries or a OVA would be great
I wish they did more with 03 Hoenheim. It Shows that they didn't know what To do with him so they stick To the basic...
Or just give her a good plan and a simple but well stablished past
Too bad gluttony ate her 😂
@@respnocza6953 A prequel series leading up to the creation of the first philosophers stone and ending with Hohenheim having kids with Trisha would have been amazing
Still a better love story than Twilight.
''On sheer impulse, I attached your soul to the body of another man.''
As ya do.
Fun Fact:Hohenheim`s original body at 1:22 is a mix of Paracelsus(The real Van Hohenheim)as a young man,the historical Saxon leader Cynric and Merlin the wizard from Arthurian lore.
Very Cool , Man Thanks For This fact 👍✨💯
Bro where'd you find this out?
Which makes Hohenheim a British immigrant
@@marcuscheng9398 Yep and the same is likely true of Dante hence her accent in the English Dub after she possesses Lyra,also the fact that she mentions witch burnings as well as her original body having auburn hair suggests she may be from Scotland, Ireland or Norway originally .(If Hohenheim was the historical Merlin, that would make Dante the historical Morgana or Morgaine Le Fey and Envy/William Pratt(Which was the birthname of Indian-English "Frankenstein`s Monster" and "Im-Hotep/Ardeth Bay" actor Boris Karloff)the historical Mordred or Mordru with hints of Lewis Caroll`s Mad Hatter .
It makes sense that he would look like the elric brothers because he fathered them in this current body.. Not in his original. He even says he never switched bodies after. The question is why does envy look so much like his current body? Envy should look different.
Envy does not remember his original form really(he states this himself in the series), he only transformed into that form who looks like Edward's brother to make the point so Edward could not doubt the truth. If he would have transformed into the body he did have before he died, his looks would not be similar to Edward's and Edward would not been affected like he was by the statement. That is how I viewed the transformation and the dilemma is solved.
Envy looks like hohenheim´s original body too, maybe both bodies (the first and the last) have common features.
Well we don't know the exact body he had when he fathered Envy so he could've looked similar
+StormJaw It's possible that Hohenheim used alchemy to change his DNA and look like his original self. That explains why the Elrics and Evny look like him. He probably does that every time he goes into a new body.
Maybe it's a stretch but it's possible Hohenhiem used alchemy to manipulated his second body to resemble his first body.
0:47
At this moment, you can barely notice Dante's eyes starting to water a bit (it'd be a bit more noticeable if the vid was higher-quality); you can tell that Hohenheim's words stung pretty hard.
Edit: I just realized that she abandoned all of her ex-husbands, yet she cried when Hohenheim implied he never loved her. Now she knows how all of her exes felt.
The 2003 anime has his moments, when i was young i hated this bc it has no happy ending like broterhood but , now that im an adult came back here and say , wow that shit was R A D
i like this story more then the Brotherhood series. its far more tragic and realistic then brotherhood series.
But nowhere near as exciting
LOL realistic. That's funny.
What about how the hommunculi were created in 03? You mean to tell me that literally anyone could create a homunculus at any time if all they do is commit the taboo?
Pretty convenient that only 7 people in the whole world committed the taboo so that they could stick with the 7 deadly sins thing. What if an 8th homunculus appeared?
Brotherhood is better. 03 destroyed what the hommunculi were supposed to be and made them nowhere near as vital to the story overall.
@@samfisher3575 You completely missed the point. Did you actually watch the show?
The show implied that there are more homunculi, as anyone with enough skill and knowledge can attempt human transmutation. Dante FINDS or CREATES seven of them, gives them names of the deadly sins, and gives them red stones so they can actually live. This was outright shown and stated in the anime. We see this when she finds Sloth after she was created. The point wasn't that there was only seven at any given time, just that Dante only takes seven under her.
The homunculi in 2003 have far greater significance than in the manga/Brotherhood because they are the representation of the sins of the alchemists who created them, and because of that have their own wills and goals which makes them far interesting than just one-dimensional creations by a typical villain like Father. The homunculi in 2003 were incredibly vital. Envy, Lust, Sloth, Greed and Wrath alone prove that. What Greed got Ed to do to him was an entire turning point for Ed's character.
Go back and actually watch 2003 before attempting to criticize it.
@@samfisher3575
lol did you even watch the show? it was stated that they were found by dante and then we given by those crystal meth to become the seven deadly sins
@@username-rz7ew I also remember someone saying the Lust we know wasn't the first. So there's been more then 7 like you said 👍
I like 2003 allot more then brotherhood.
Dante: Tell me... why did you leave?! Wasn't eternal life enough for you?!
Hohenheim: Dante... there's no such thing as eternal life...
Deep
Lots of comments here about what a bitch Hohenheim is in FMA 03... And yes, he really is. I dunno though, the character somehow still works for me, it's hard to articulate why. Maybe it just feels like a man powerful enough to transmute fucking light particles into soldiers suffering from crippling fear and self-doubt and regret feels like an interesting, if tragically short-lived character study. I'm disappointed he didn't have more going on in this series. I like that he's not really a good guy, that he's kind of selfish, that he's insecure, all that business. I like that he's responsible for Envy and all kinds of other stuff.
MJTRadio 03 hohenheim > hohenheim brotherhood
He's a not deep or well fleshed out but people seem to give him a pass because he told Edward that he didn't deserve sons like Ed and Al... yeah, no shit. He's a horrible character.
He's definitely nowhere near as interesting as his counterpart in the second anime. Hohenheim in the 2003 anime is a pretty terrible person.
Nightman221k terrible "person", not a terrible character. Besides, Von Hohenhiem is too romanticized and pure. Hohenhiem of Light feels like the tale of a *man*, impure as he is, even his name is ironic. For all the atrocities he's responsible for; corrupting Dante, creating the Stone, transferring bodies and the creation of his first born son's homunculus; at least he's interesting.
Think what you want, but I think you're misreading Van Hohenheim. He's not a pure, romanticized character. He has deep self-loathing and you can see that in how he was distant from his sons and didn't see himself as human anymore and didn't think his presence would benefit the boys when he was gone, and his actions had consequences that he saw and felt the gravity of. He saw how much his sons cared about him and wanted him in their lives. It's actually pretty painful when you realize that what he wanted all along was to have a family and when he got it he had to leave. That and he's someone who grew up a slave and then became a vessel for the souls of half a kingdom, his life was pretty messed up. He's an incredibly interesting character to analyze.
Hohenheim of Light, admittedly, has a lot of qualities that could make him an interesting and compelling character but he wasn't well explored as a character by comparison. His actions aren't really delved into outside the scene where he and Dante talk about it. We don't even really get to see other characters react to the extent of his past. That and his actions are random, he leaves Trisha and the boys when he starts to rot and we are left assuming he never even told Trisha why he left or what he was. That's deceptive and cruel and doesn't show he's changed much just cause he met Trisha.
He royally screwed over his first wife and child and then he set his other wife and son up for grief too. It wouldn't be so bad if the show acknowledged that he was shitty in doing that but I got the impression that the 03 anime wanted to make Hohenheim of Light sympathetic when they showed the flashback of him with the boys and Trisha then peacing out when he gets rotty. Then in "Our World" he wanders off and leaves Ed again. He's just a loser and a deadbeat. He doesn't even try to understand his boys or be a part of their lives. Tell me why should I care about this guy when the show attempts to make it seem like I should without putting forward much effort in making him worthy of it?
pretty interesting how they were normal humans during the time of the witchhunts. their actions basically reflect the mentality people back then had toward alchemy and eternal life. That is, they thought it was truly attainable.
It's crazy when you think about it
It's pretty depressing on how people think that being a better person translates automatically into being a better character.
We would have no interesting anti-heroes whatsoever if we all followed that rule
Yeah but Hohenheim in this has a rushed character arc. He is poorly developed in this 03 version and it really becomes annoying when the show tries to play him off as important and stuff.
@@Laiser I think he's been given as much screen time as he deserves. I don't think Hohenheim is a badly written character arc. In 03 He morally a broken man. He not tries to justify himself before sons, because understands that he deserved their hatred (at least hatred from Edward). He silently goes to Dante to force stop to hunt on his sons. I like the way his character arc ends. The way he uses the metaphor of equivalent exchange. He says he's glad that an equivalent exchange is a lie, because he shouldn't demand anything from his children in return for his love for them. In my opinion, this one phrase has more weight than the entire arc of the character of Hohenheim from Broho.
The hate for this version of Hohenhiem ironically proves that this version of the character had a far greater impact on people then the one in Brotherhood. A father who abandons his children because of his own fear is not something most people can accept if they are trying to watch something to escape from reality.
@@mryoutube4399 Well said. And the best art is always when escapism meets realism!
let me explain why her body rotting,the immortality is lie.she transfer her to new body but she also leavr peace of her soul,as you know she had been done it again and again.until the soul her reduce is so small that it cannot support new body
I definitely liked Brotherhood better than this series... but this one was MUCH darker. Dante, Pride, an uncontrollable Gluttony... Dark stuff!
i think the darkness of this show makes it better
Headcanon: The underground city beneath Central is named Shamballa by its residents who escaped from the witch hunts on our Earth via transmuting themselves to escape through their own Gates. In this case the Elric Bros were British-Amestrians. This makes them illegal immigrants in Germany
I really wish we had a whole episode or two parter to go into more detail of their origins.
Yea I love 03 and it's a 10/10 but another 5 episodes at the end with more on their origin, a whole episode of them in the past and more with Hohenheim would have been great. A prequel series leading up to the creation of the first philosophers stone would have been amazing
@GunsolKyle
I thought EXACTLY the same thing.
1:10 Why does the music say his name.
Dante's theme
Dante singing for him
@@lilianemachadostigliano1727 I never realized that before
Maybe I'm just being nostalgic because I grew up on the 2003 series but I always thought Dante was a scarier villian.
Father felt a little comical near the end but Dante was just scary as she got desperate.
Same Same I Grow With This Version
Hell no. Father was FAR from "comical" at all at the end. Not in anyway. The whole point of the character is a being who wanted to obtain absolute knowledge through pure objective cold science and reason as a means to be make up for the freedom of course to do whatever he can possibly do just because he can.
Which makes him a perfect foil for edward and Honheniem who learn everything that father does not that cold logic and science isn't the absolute way to solve all problems or make you truly happy.
Piss off with that "comical near the end" comment right there.
@@Gadget-Walkmen The finale with the "this isn't even my final form" cliche was kind of comical.
@@gonzaloNMF LMAO WHAT THE HELL? What the hell are you even talking about? NOTHING was “comical”? What? In what way? It’s been massively established that these creatures have true appearances since their not human at all so no duh
There was never a “this isn’t even my final form” transition that wasn’t obvious that these characters made it extremely clear on which would be their true forms at all. You make no sense!
@@Gadget-Walkmen Dude, chill down. Curb your fanaticism...
I've always loved both of the FMA, but I've always seen the 2003 adaption as more... realistic. In comparison to Brotherhood, this one just feels more real; like this can actually happen. I think it's because of the bittersweet ending that it has. The brothers are reunited in the end, but at the cost of losing their original home. I also think that the 2003 adaption is more intimate with its characters given that it's a shorter list when compared to Brotherhood. It casts a larger role with Hues and gives the other homunculus more humane characteristics or motives.
0:42 The show: Briefly forgets how shadows work!
The interesting thing is I think Dante’s actions and motives remind me more of a spoiler from a non anime series. Basically it was inspired by a short story by Jorge Luis Borges where a civilization of immortals had become moral and human zombies. Immortality rotted Dante’s moral obligations into being emotionally dead to suffering and caring for others similar to the people in that civilization where they lived in the crumbled ruins of a once thriving world. Dante’s in a similar metaphorical situation where her lack of humanity and comprehension eroded with her hatred for humans and thus wishing to become their God.
Please tell me the name of the Borges novel you wrote about
Well said
Evidently, Dante as villain significantly more creepy and disgusting than Father is in FMAB.
Dante's voice actor did well
I love the soundtrack 😍
Dante reminds me of Katerina Petrova from the tv series the vampire diaries, she was a doppleganger, and she was going to be sacrificed to break a curse, she manipulated a vampire to became a vampire as well, doing that she thought she had more chances to survive but Klaus needed her to still be human because vampirism negated her doppleganger blood, from that day Klaus went after her to kill her for ruining his plans.
Katerina only goal was survival and spent hundreds of years hiding, manipulating people and killing them, her new goal was to become truly immortal with the sole purpose to survive. She couldnt do it, she died, the only person who truly loved her was her daughter and even though they both died the same day she wasnt going to go the same place as her daughter's when she died, because of all her deeds she went to the darkness... some kind of hell.
I like how 1rst Hohenheim looks like Father.
Never realized that. Good catch.
What if she put her soul into Lust or Sloth? Maybe she wouldn't rot since their bodies are immortal.
SSHHH!! don't tell her!
That's actually a really good point dante is dumb not to come up with that
@@The_darkest_dandy666 Mayby it has to a Human body, because plot or whatever.
@@munken7673 yeh that would make sense
@@The_darkest_dandy666 I don't think the possibility didn't occur to Dante during her 400 years, or more realistically, the writers. But consider how the main drive of the Homunculi throughout the whole series was to become human. There must be something about that form that is not as cool as it seems from our point of view. Even Greed, "the perfect shield" wanted to stop being a homunculus.
One could also say "Well then, why didn't she perform a soul binding like Al, who is practically immortal?" But is that really how you want to live your immortality? Not sleeping, drinking of sleeping around? I wouldn't
I always liked to think this took place in an alternate universe where a vast amount of people actually died in the witch trials, instead of people pretending they did.
Nah, this is the same universe as Harry Potter. You can trust me, I'm someone on the internet.
+NothingPosted905 THEN YOU MUST KNOW WHEN BROLY!! TELL ME RANDOM GUY ON THE INTERNET!
thegame expert It will happen someday.
+NothingPosted905 then the prophecies were real! *picks up the phone* it's me. the prophecy about john titor's successor seem to be real. WHAT!? WE HAVE NO BACKUP PLAN? alright, i'll figure out something. after all this is Steins Gate's choice. El Psy Congroo
thegame expert Everything is real!
0:48 You can see Dante's eyes quivering.
People can say what they will about 03 but man did it make the Philosopher's Stone such a threat and major plot element. They started to become a dime a dozen in Brotherhood. Lol
👍
That's because the world of the 2003 version is much smaller, which is why the search for the Philosopher's Stone is so much more elusive.
Wow, Lust looks horrified.
I don't get why she was so hated. Honestly she seems more sympathetic all she ever wanted was to spend eternity with the one she loved and he stopped loving her once she found the answer. True her methods were horrible but its not like they both werent looking and didnt both use it. However he cast her aside and she forever kept chasing.
Why is this scene so dark, yet so interesting?
That background theme always stuck with me but I never actually went and listened to it again after I watched the first FMA anime 10 years ago. I guess I'll watch it again to get it this time I was too young to realise what was happening when I first watched it. Also I liked how despite the second half diverging from the manga the anime actually remained to be pretty good, at least if anything it didn't just end or had a terrible ending.
Bruh something about this version of FMA always seemed horror movie like.
I'm surprised this whole anime was even aired no wonder it was on adult swim lol
All of the sins r so interesting. It just made me wanna learn about them. And watch this show once again.
Maybe not eternal life but long ass life yeah.
The original body Hoenheim had looks like Father
Wow, the music is mesmerising
How in over 400 years has Dante not know how to make a philosopher stone
I mean. It’s not about the time duration spent it’s how it’s spent. Then again it could be worse. Could be ezra miller’s The Flash and spending decades trying to save two people and still hadn’t learned how to phase properly in all that time.
Despite having the means to kill kryptonians and he still fails. 😂
@@DarkEclipse23 yeah ok your a bot
Oh and she said “I didn’t know how to make one on my own”. So she really just wanted people to die themselves for her sake 😂
she lied just to cover her tracks, she knew how to make one, it’s just the dangers that came with creating one, sacrificing thousands to millions of human lives in a transmutation circle array citywide, countrywide or even worldwide, this is extremely dangerous and deadly, and therefore takes many years of planning and manipulation, there is a reason why Lust eventually switched up on Dante near the end, because like how you cannot bring the dead back to life, there is no other way for any of the homunculi to become human, mass genocide is not done overnight
Their relationship is very dark they’re robbing other people’s bodies for immortality
immortality? not really for example someone targets her let's say with a sniper rifle headshots her so if she doesn't see it coming she dies from the headshot
she would survive something like that if she was truly immortal
@ oh sorry I meant that they live longer not immortality
The body you see him in now is the one Dante transferred his soul to. You don't see his original face clearly, which adds to the effectiveness of the scene.
I think it’s interesting they came from their worlds medieval Europe and they were Christians originally and this religion died out behind their gate. My boy Hoenheim really didn’t love Dante and forsakes their child only for him to die and be brought back as Envy the original FMA was just as much God Tier as Brotherhood.
2023 marks the 20th anniversary of FMA 2003 🖤
You hear this and now you really feel more for Scar. His brother and the Ishvalans.
How so? Not that I don't feel for them
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 Basically all the bloodshed and death was started by Dante and her cronies so she can drive someone crazy enough to make a Philosopher's Stone, steal it, and use it keep herself alive and cause more suffering to start all over. Just like Scar's Brother in this version of the story. All those people died, so this evil bitch can live it up. It's sick.
@@EmptyMan000 Definitely bro. It's heartbreaking. And all the tragedy Scar and his people have to suffer along with sacrificing himself to create the stone is soooo sad 😭😭😭
dante is an amazing character but i think father makes alot more sense than this although i like the whole relationship between she and hohenheim
What are you talking about? She used me.
+Lyra Yoki lmao!!
Not really, FMC: Brotherhood the father doesnt make more sense then this 1. In this its more plausible since there were real elite witches during the salam witch trials that condemed innocent people as witches when in reality they were. So basically it makes sense while a powerful alchemist like hoenhiem working with dante and that other rich guy who hoenhiem recieved the body of were using condemed prisoners and plauge patients for their experiments. Government or the elite using those condemed by society fpr their owm malicious experiments is nothing new.
God, I forgot just how much of an emotional coward Hohenheim was in the original.
I knowwwwwww he's a much better character in brotherhood he left because of necessity not for selfish reasons
Mathew Williams Yeah, in Brotherhood he left to counter Father's plan. In this show he left because....... he was too much of a pussy to tell the truth about his body to Trisha.
+JeepJeepKeyBlock778 I know, right! He's the worst!!!!
+Jaden Curtis Not to mention the Lior uprising! And, hi there. :D
Envy You also killed the best character on the show ;(
The name of the song is call, Full Metal Alchemist: Dante Theme
Dante was more interesting, than Father. Very cold madam, she manipulated all country and homunculus. And she had very good them
eeeeeh father creating the whole country to use it as a giant transmutation circle is more interesting in my books.
also he starts (in the serie) with dantes end game, an inmortal body.
@@BioMatic2 Except the reason Father needed to create Amestris to use as a giant transmutation circle is because no transmutation circles,no human sacrifices,no human sacrifices,no Philosopher`s Stones,no Philosopher`s Stones,no Homunculi.(So in both series,the Homunculi were dependent on the very humans they look down upon,the difference is the 2003 ones knew it whilst the Manga/Brotherhood ones were stupid and in denial about it until the protagonists and Truth forced them to recognize that fact!)
@@AspieMediaBobby more like Father was too proud of himself to accept that
i was recently rewatching the series and i think i want a prequel series about her
This anime really needs a remake.
So they're staying around longer than they are supposed to
kinda like spongebob and the simpsons
Thank you! Ive been looking for this flashback!
If there was a live action TV series, I would mix Dante and father's character together, dante being a humunculus dwarf in the flask before van hohenheim and the destruction of xerxes, which gives her a female body whom van hohenheim initially fell in love with and entered into a whirl-wind romance with her that would give birth to a child. This child and them lived happily till the child died of mercury poisoning and van hohenheim would try to use human transmutation to bring the child back. Creating a deformed and bloody humanoid with a piece of the childs soul still inside him. envy is the first human based humunculus, unable to face up to what he had done to his son, van hohenheim would abandon both dante and envy. Envy would be a malformed humanoid form for a few years, unable to speak, but constantly bleeding and crying as Dante rearranged his body with all the skill of a mad chiropractor, feeding him small fragments of her Philosopher's Stone every few days to relieve the pain just enough for him to sleep until she discovered how to make mass quantities through the slaughter of many, which allowed him to take on a proper human shape and finally take away the physical pain, the abandonment of hohenheim and envy's creation would cause dante to decide to absorb god and creates amestris exactly for that purpose after she discovers that her container(body) won't last forever, so she decides to strike down god and become immortal. Envy's hatred for his father and need to kill him would be intact and it will be his main goal. Whereas the rest just want to serve Dante in her quest to absorb God, envy wants to kill van hohenheim. His hatred for doctor Marco being rooted in the fact that all alchemist remind him of his father. His killing of the ishvallan girl being rooted in intense jealousy of seeing her with her parents. His hatred for Edward being rooted in the fact that the elric brothers received the fatherly love that he never did.
I mixed the strong elements of 2003 and brotherhood...the uniqueness, plot function, philosophy, and endgame of the original father...and the twisted dark personal history and relationship with van hohenheim that dante has....envy being a plus
Creating a singular strong character.
That sounds dumb!
Dante have redeeming qualities in the past
Why did I realize just now that Pride from FMAB and Dante look so much alike? Both dark haired, both purple eyes... Im blind.
The violet eyes are a Philosopher`s Stone side effect.Dante`s eyes were most likely originally blue like Wrath`s started out as but like her homunculi,the natural eye color of Dante`s host body or in The Homunculi`s case the person who was transmuted to create them was turned violet(Or in Lust`s case since she was originally Ishbalan)magenta by the blood of the human lives within the Red Stones. I`m guessing Gluttony`s eyes were pupilless due to the sheer amount of human lives he`s consumed due to his voracious nature!
@@AspieMediaBobby Damn bro where you finding all this knowledge? 😭
I forgot Van was originally voice by wolverine lol
One bad thing of the original Hohenheim was that he took the role of Father and knowingly sacrificed lives to create the Philosopher’s Stone to begin with
He only changed by experiencing long life and falling in love with the right woman
In contrast Brotherhood Hohenheim never asked for either the Philosopher’s Stone or immortality for himself, and made most of his long life from the get go, by comforting and bonding with the souls of his philosopher’s stone and worked to stop Father by making his reverse transmutation circle to counter Father’s Plan
Falling in love and having a family brought even more of the best in him, and really started to live his life there
Don’t get my wrong the original Hohenheim was still good, as he was a redeemed by love and same to see it was all a mistake later on in life
While Dante refused to change and became unstable
I swear that music is so good
I love Dante's and his relationship so much lol.Shes like still evil and he's trying to be good now.
Greed and gluttony we're her ex husbands
Dante's plan is super unsustainable. Each bodies decays faster than the last. Even if she got another stone, how could she ever hope to keep going? At some point, her new body, will completely decay, as soon as she enters it, and will die. If she wanted eternal life maybe she could attached her soul to an inanimate object, like Al. But then she couldn't fuck, as she seems to be somewhat of a nymphomaniac.
@Emma Petersen You know part of me wished she'd actually address it for once but it really spoke to the character and overall plot that she'd deflect to another topic. She was that scared and in denial of the truth. Makes sense sgger enjoying immortality for 400 years
There's really no such thing as eternal life in an inanimate object. You can't live as a human being in a suit of armor
fma03 - the dark knight
fmab - marvel
In my book, FMA03 is much better.
That's cause you're a person of quality. Brotherhood is amazing but damn if its not the code geass of the fma series. This is closer to the writing of death note.
Well said
hohenheim aint really a good guy either tbh, he sacrificed countless lives for the philosopher stone when he was with dante, and then he left her without even explaining why it seems
Hohenheim of Light is significantly less heroic and less likable than his manga counterpart.
I don’t think he was supposed to be. I believe he acknowledged his rotting flesh was just a reminder of his sins he couldn’t escape.
I'm saying it what if Dante and Father worked together!
I think Father would look at her and say, "Geez, no wonder Hohenheim left you. And people call me crazy! At least I have an actual plan!"
I can see Dante falling in love with him for his resemblance to Hohenheim as he pretends to love her like he did with the homunculi
@TheMegaUzumaki Yeah I Know,...
I just think that he wouldn't ADMIT It to anyone other than hohenheim
Keep in mind that 400 years later he had no qualms about sucking the souls dry
@@tjjordan4207
Father : (I prefer hohenheim from the manga)
Seriously Dante's plan is a mad gambit
Dante... Such a lovable villain. The name fits her personality so well for some strange reason. Eerie as that is she's one of the best characters ever written
She's not one of the BEST characters ever written at all
Not by a long shot
I like Scott McNeil a bit more than John Swasey as the english Hohenheim
Jarrett Beese hes a great voice actor he also made wolverine more of a smart anti hero
and made piccolo cold and calm,
Jarrett Beese Yeah! :D love how Scott's Hohenheim basically sounds like the older and more calm version of Koga from Inuyasha.
Now imagine how awesome it would've been if McNeil was voicing BROTHERHOOD Hohenheim....
Manga fans: we dont mention dante here
Full Metal Alchemist: Dante Theme
Bruh this is really daaark like seriously dark
Yea all of 2003 is. Amazing stuff
this FMA is defiantly better the villain's better the tone stays the same through out the twists are more shocking and better executed the mystery behind the gate is more interesting soundtrack's also better I gotta give props for the orignal story it feels like a dark shein at the end well brothood feels like a it get's more and more like a shonen battle anime at the end with more traditonal anime trops and a predictable happy ending FMAB wasn't as much as an emotional rollcostar as FMA was FMA2003 felt more grounded and moving well FMAB took the safe route besides hughs and nina it felt like the author was playing it safe not wanting to kill off any more main cast original is better and cooler everyone things brothehood's better just because it's the original manga well FA's a better story overall and did anyone else think it annoying that the philosophers stone was all built up to be some legendary thing that was almost impossible to get you're hands on that they thought it only a myth yet there were like 4 or 5 in brotherhood
+tyler bregg >Criticizes FMA:B for being too shonen
>Has One Piece avatar
smh
Also, tons of main characters are killed in Brotherhood. Bido, Fu, Buccaneer, Greed, Hohenheim, Gluttony, Envy, Kimblee, Bradley, Raven, Barry the Chopper, Hughes, etc etc.
Did you even pay attension to the story?
ugh I did but character's die in shonen storys to you know ace almost every flash back char in one piece SPOILER's btw neji jaraya more flashback chars bleach had a few to just because chars die dosen't make the show good FMA feels dark and dramatic with a really big storyline going through out and the philosophers stone is so mysterious and feels so far out of reach in FMA B we get like 3 or more of them mustangs isbhal backstory and how whinrys parents died is done much better and more dramatically the ending for scar feels like it fits this kind of show the 4th lab was much more interesting and the battles in FMA feel more like fights to farther the plot and not just have a fight scene with multiple chars to show off the animation plus FMA B's animation style for the humor scenes change at the drop of a hat it clashes with the mood of the show professorial reviwers say it lot's of people I've shown it to say it FMA B seems like a shonen trying to be a senien it's only super dark in the first half which FMA does better also
tyler bregg lol Flashback characters don't count. I'm talking about characters that are actually part of the present-time plot. And most of the characters who die in the shonen shows you mention get revived when they're needed for the plot again. And even then, you're basically contradicting yourself, because one flashback in Brotherhood shows an entire nation dying horribly.
You say characters dying doesn't make the show good. Yet in your earlier comment, you posted that Arakawa was too afraid to kill off main characters (even though she wasn't, see my previous comment for examples)
The philosopher's stone is produced in mass numbers in Brotherhood because it's all a ploy by Father to fuel the state alchemist's power to help them commit mass genocide. The plot in this version just called for more stones.
I will admit though that lab 5 and Mustang's flashback were very good, and one of the few things the original has over Brotherhood.
Winry's subplot is handled horribly in the original though. She comes to know about it, brushes it off like nothing and then later teases Mustang on the matter. Whereas in Brotherhood she has a very realistic reaction, confronts her parent's killers twice, only the second time, she doesn't forgive him, but comes to terms with their death.
Scar's end, although heartwarming, was kinda BS. I'm surprised he was even able to survive that long, much less walk around, after taking so many shots to the chest and losing both his fucking arms. This show's narrative in general was a mess.
I don't think there was a single fight in Brotherhood that didn't add something to the plot. And yeah, they're beautifully choreographed and animated too.
The animation inconsistency disappeared after season 1. And I could easily make the argument that the original had more inconsistency. Characters very often appeared to be off-model.
I don't think the humour bothered me that much. It showed that humans, even at the darkest of times, are still able to joke around.
Most people prefer Brotherhood. As far as critics go, I'd say it's about 50-50. I've seen plenty of professional critics criticize the original for having a wonky narrative and hamfisted melodrama, especially in the second half.
Also, you seem to be under the delusion that dark = better. I can assure you that this, infact, is very untrue.
.
ugh options won't differ though arguing flame wars never cease what I mean is FMAB feels much lighter in tone 1. they don't go very deep detail about the isbal war 2. the animation changes for comedic affect change faster then the release date for the five nights at freddys series 3. the dramatic deaths don't have the same mood of impact as some character die much sooner we wouldn't have been as devastated if we didn't watch the 2003 version 4. FMAB has more action in it that's not a bad thing however it feels like a shonen with lots of 3 to 4 way battles 5.FMA has a lot more NO melodramatic drama and it doesn't have so many different important character's that make it seem kinda crowded 6. ed al and mustang get way more development even if they're just humcli ed kills 2 even one that looks like his mother and at the end his beliefs of equivalent exchange are challenged alot with the revelation on how alchemy gets it's energy and his dialog with Dante Mustang give into revenge and the series stops preaching that revenge is wrong which really pissed me off
all in all I like FMA better the tone is constant not focusing on a bunch of different characters only the ones they know you'll like and when I said they're to scared to kill off chars i meant main ones like armstrong ling izumo any other important char we really care about
tyler bregg Your One Piece is also a very relatively lighthearted show. Are you going to say that it's an inferior form of entertainment just because of that reason alone?
1. They still shed plenty of light on the Ishval war in Brotherhood. You get to see more of Mustang, Hughes, Hawkeye and Armstrong's actively taking part in large genocide and hearing their thoughts on the matter. In the original, you only really see Mustang's POV.
2.Once again, they stop with the sudden animation changes after Greed 1.0 bites the dust. And don't go pretending that the original didn't have those weird chibi moments either.
3. That's because the 2009 show came out at a time when the original series were still fresh on people's minds. Everyone knew about Fullmetal Alchemist back then. They didn't want people to get the impression that Brotherhood was going to be a rehash of the 2003 series, so they sped up events to get to the new material. The first 10 episodes are basically nothing more than a recap of the first 25 episodes of the original series.
4. *facepalm*
FMA:B IS A FUCKING SHONEN YOU DUNCE! YOU'RE LITERALLY CRITICIZING A SHONEN FOR HAVING ACTION! THAT'S LIKE COMPLAINING ABOUT A HENTAI HAVING TOO MUCH SEX!
5. FMA 2003 had tons of melodrama in the second half. It's one of the reasons why some people didn't like it. It's okay to have mentally vulnerable characters, but when they ONLY focus on the drama, it loses it's impact after a while. Having more characters is a good thing because it enriches the plot. Plus, if you're not interested in the Elric bros, you always have the Xingese characters. And if you don't find them appealing, then there's always the Briggs ones. I also liked that Brotherhood gave it's side characters much more to do. It adds more variety and shows that the whole world doesn't revolve around the Elrics.
6. I do agree that Edward was a really good character in the 2003 series. Alphonse though was a dense idiot, only acting as Ed's second hand man and getting any real development in the final episode. He was much more independent, badass and had more common sense in Brotherhood. Hated that Mustang basically threw away his dream to get revenge in the 2003 series. A really petty reason and something that's definitely not 'deep', no matter how much you claim it is. I'm glad that he had people to steer him in the right direction in Brotherhood. He was basically torturing Envy at that point, inflicting on him a slow and painful death. It would've been okay if he just killed him quickly and got it over with. But he was basically taking *pleasure* in killing him. Can you blame Hawkeye for snapping some sense into him?
Him going ape shit on Envy's ass was more satisfying than him defeating Bradley, and that too, only due to a dues ex machina.
Hohenheim and Greed were pretty big players who died in Brotherhood.
And I could just as well say that the writers of 2003 series were too pussy to kill off Mustang, especially after he got shot IN DA FUCKING EYE DAMMIT!
0:25 Dante inspired by orochimaru from Naruto
i always thought this
nope
So fucking epic moment
Probably one of the best scenes in fma
The only thing that I remember about this anime is that conversation that Dante(?) had with Ed(?) where the room was rotating like crazy.
I don't even remember if it was the two of them talking and I don't even remember what they were talking about.
I just remember the vertigo that it gave me.
I love that part. You have it all right
He must of not truly ever loved or trusted her because why else would she not know how to make the stone when she was by his side at the time it was made?
Take notes Brotherhood, this is how you write a SUBTLE villain
I suppose
+Lucan Stone (Your Black Protoman) Arakawa actually liked how the original turned out
+Erik Freeman Why did she pick Lyra as her host instead of Lan Fan?
+Lucan Stone (Your Black Protoman) Why did she pick Lyra instead of Winry or Hawkeye?
+Lucan Stone (Your Black Protoman) Lyra didn't deserve having her pretty body hijacked! She should've either ran away or traveled with the Elric brothers.
I like this Hohenheim better then the one in Fma: Brotherhood
Lord sketch... He's really... Not and the nazis killed him because of that
I love both 😊
To bad the 03 vers did so little with him thought...
I know wjat u mean. The reason is that sad and somber personality matches this character. This character design isnt good for battle or energetic scenes. Its for a sad and despair like scenes whivh is why in Brotherhood it totally ruined his character.
@@arss1057 Yea this version is tired and broken 😔
maes hughes still dies in both adaptations 😭
Shambhala movie: 👍