PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU MAKE THE SAME COMMENT! This is a pre-production vehicle. The software can, and will change which will change some parts of this review. 1. Thanks to Ecotricity for use of their video th-cam.com/video/GIJa4B-J3uE/w-d-xo.html and first part here th-cam.com/video/grnNyixCnSU/w-d-xo.html 2. Error in the incline slide; should be divide by tyre radius. However the overall point is that EVs *may* need additional torque on the rear axle, depending on their gear ratios, motor torque, tyre diameter etc, and the front motor cannot do much to assist so it's mostly on the rear. In addition, the software needs to be good enough to recognise the problem. 3. HDC - I asked, and was told HDC is locked at 8km/h. I had BYD tech people in the car when that little video was shot on the way to the testing ground. Ecotricity stated it would remain at the same speed the vehicle was set to by the driver's pedals and stated it worked down to 2km/h - however in his video the car is clearly travelling much faster than 2km/h, and as you can see in my video, I tried the exact same test, twice, then in reverse and the car went to 8km/h and then maintained. As this is a pre-prod car, I suspect there are different versions of software, and they also said it may change...and PR people are not noted for supplying accurate or complete information. 4. EV fires. An LFP battery is one type of lithium-ion, there's various others. LFP are not immune to fires, or thermal runaway, so still need protection. The probability of a fire is, relative to ICE, low but low is not zero and when you get many, many vehicles the probability rises. Offroaders are more likely to damage the battery back through rocks etc and that introduces a fire risk, LFP or not, and the battery is the lowest part of the vehicle which is good for performance. I think the Ranger PHEV will have its battery over the rear axles which is a much safer place for it, but also poor for performance, and uses space which could be used for drawers or a water tank like in my own Ranger. This is the packaging/space issue I talked about in Video 1." I checked with EV Firesafe who told me they have plenty of BYD fires in their database, and you can also watch this for a technical analysis of fires and LFP. So, please do not comment saying LFPs cannot catch fire. The risk is lower it appears but not zero. th-cam.com/video/YvQ9NEw76G8/w-d-xo.html And yes there is a BYD video...but really, you going to trust a manufacturer marketing video? 5. Regen - I tested a Dolphin the same day and came down a hill, Lake Mountain for those that know it, and found that soon as I touched the friction brakes regen decreased. Regardless, there is insufficient retardation from regen alone on max on the Shark, and we did not do anything I would class as steep, or long, and the vehicle was light.
Great analysis on the whole but your assessment about fire risk is overblown. You admit the fire risk is lower than ICE and yet devote space to qualifying the very low but non-zero risk? You wouldn't bother even mentioning it in an ICE vehicle and, while it should be raised, given Lithium ion's potential fire risk, a balanced assessment would be something like "The LFP chemistry makes an already low risk far lower than an ICE vehicle" and leave it at that.
That omits the offroad component of the vehicle's use which raises the fire risk once again. That is why there is so much protection for the battery, and why Ironman are bringing out an additional bashplate. BYD provided us the information I relayed and they did that for a reason, because they saw a risk. Two days ago I was inspecting the wreck of a Tesla Y which had flipped over an armco barrier and ripped its battery in the process and caught fire, which is the sort of damage offroaders may incur. Now with all that done, I think people can go ahead, buy the car and drive offroad, not worrying any more about fire than they would with an ICE.
@@L2SFBC Ironman are bringing out a bashplate to cash in on peoples fears. I would be more concerned about addons changing the cooling profile. Its been proven how low the fire risk is, however the reason why I think you should still note it is not because of the chances, that part is good! The reason to mention the fire risk is the type and speed of the fire, and the potential for electronic door opening mechanisms failing. An emergency window breaker, for 20 bucks, is probably the best investment any EV (or any car) driver to have handy.
@@L2SFBC Finding examples of fires is of almost no value, except as another lesson for being able to identify manufacturing improvements that reduce the fire risk (eg moving to LFP batteries). However, the risk of fire is above zero, whether you own an ICE or an EV. People buy ICE vehicles understanding the risk of fire is low. If the risk of fire from EVs is the same or lower then where is the beef?
For someone who will likely never do any off-roading, light or otherwise, your review and analysis of the Shark 6's off-roading capability was absolutely exceptional.
@@badharrow Yeah, for small "soft-roaders" (like my Outlander PHEV) an EV drive-train kind of makes up for lack of low-range, but this illustrates why it may be essential for heavier, serious off-roaders - especially one designed to carry a load.
@@L2SFBC by any chance, might you do an offroad comparison between the EVs you've mentioned. Just to see how robust their traction systems are. Similar to the comparison you had with the LC300, Y62, Grenadier and Defender.
Excellent detailed review! I'm told the initial Shark release is more on road focused with some off road capability as this is where the bulk of the UTE market sits. There will be more off road capable variants down track similar to the Fang Cheng Bao Leopard 5 which shares the same DMO platform as the Shark.
Excellent report on the SHARK, in depth and precise. It appears to be a real winner in the UTE market and appears to be very competitive unless you are looking for a serious off road option.
As this point I am planning to buy. I have benn worried that the only reviews so far have been coming from press events. Very happy see some critical analysis.
I like this type of review, more data analysis and facts on paper. Solid evidence from scientific point. Also good education of all round off road and EV knowledge. Thank you.
Fantastic video. Just an information, I have a BYD Dolphin and a BYD Seal. Both use regen when you press the brakes. It's a collaborative system, hydraulic brakes are used only when you press the pedal hard. There is no reason for Shark to not use this feature also. Just check the value of negative kW when you press the brakes. Another detail, BYD cars have OTA updates. They did one on the Seal when a youtuber found that the car could not climb hills in slippery conditions. So many issues that Shark has now may be fixed in the future and all owners can receive the update.
I tested a Dolphin on a hill that same day and found that soon as I used the friction brakes, the regen decreased. But yes, pressing the 'brakes' is a complex function of regen vs friction brakes. I agree with OTA, much of what I found can be fixed with software.
@@L2SFBCThere is a catch. If the battery is above 95%, there is no increase in regeneration when pressing the pedal. Below that, regeneration is quite high. Probably the battery was fully charged when you tested the Dolphin.
No, it wasn't fully charged, went from 19 to 27% downhill. Regen can work even when battery at 100%, the energy is just dissipated. Also, if the battery is too hot it will not accept full, or partial charge.
"the hill problem" , I think you are 100% right, Bao 5 has 200KW 360 Nm and 280KW 400Nm motors and it can climb 45 degrees and 100% grade according to BYD, not only the motors are more powerful but it has a "4L" gear on the rear axle only, so another reduction gear on the rear axel
@@L2SFBCnot hopefully.. actually.. proven by multiple independent laboratories and near 20 years of LFP chemistry batteries being used in server room UPSs with close to zero fires. Close to, in the same sense that SLAs can also cause a fire if you short out the terminals with a flammable material on top
@@jspanga using batteries in server rooms for 20 years without incident is hardly scientific proof they do not have any concerns when used in a vehicle. I'm not saying either way but you argument isn't convincing me they are safe, I'm hopeful but not assured.
Great review Robert. I note you talk about battery damage and possible fire from Litium Iron batteries. The Shark 6 has a LFP battery not a Lithium Iron. The BYD Blade battery does not have puncture fire issues!
It is good to hear from a presenter who knows what off roaders want to know. I have seen silly comments from obviously non wheeling presenters on 4wd related issues.
on a different car one presenter described a car as not a real 4wd because there was no chassis. Just an ev dressed up to look like a 4wd lol. No mention of suspension travel or other relevant things. In fairness could not test it off road.
1:39 In HEV mode, like you said last video from 60 to 70 km/h up the ICE motor can kick in for direct drive the front axle and recharge the battery, and the rear motor can also drive the rear axle in normal/sport mode for my Bao 5
After the suckup video from the Sauce guys, which focused on looks, infotainment, and plush materials, this review is refreshing for people who want to take it out beyond the school run. Lack of torque and weight sees it struggle in mud as seen in the video you referenced.
This channel is meat and vegetables, not sauce. It doesn't lack torque, and yes weight is high, but a big reason it struggled in the other video is that the first car broke the crust and made it harder for the second. This was not realised in the video. A fairer comparison would have been to not follow the ruts exactly.
Hi Robert, the BYD leopard 5 has 2:1 low-range gear at the rear axle only, boost the total ratio to 21. It has slightly bigger electric motor than the Shark, 400Nm. give max 8400Nm of torque, which advised in Chinese Market
In real world test, The leopard 5 can achieve 39degree climb, but failed at 42-degree slope, the vehicle could not even stop on the slope, front wheels braked but the rear wheels spinning with full brake, very dangerous
Our cars were fixed at 8km/h. His video showed the car well above 8km/h. Possibly the PR people told him 2, and maybe his car can do 2, but it was not shown as such.
BYD should be able to set up the regen braking system to operate like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (latest generation). These cars will send excess regen braking force through the generator to the engine, so effectively like engine braking in an ICE car. My Outlander does this when the battery capacity is too high to accept regen but in theory it should be possible to let the engine soak up regen in addition to what the battery can accept regen when the battery SOC is low enough to accept very high regen levels.
I believe that the pre production units used in testing have some software problems in the drive settings that will be fixed when the production units begin being shipped. Also, a NZ reviewer driving in real world on-road conditions got 88km's out of the battery before it hit 25% and the engine kicked in.
Also that reviewer did get up the hill eventually😃 he just kept pressing buttons until one of them gave him the traction he needed. However he did not make it clear what he actually did! He also emphasized that this was pre pro model, so his guess was it needs a software update to fix it. I own an MG ev and like most Chinese companies they actually do listen to feedback, and act! quite refreshing in this day and age.
As this is their first attempt at an off road vehicle, I think it’s ok. They will be learning from feedback. I am sure they will make frequent updates to accommodate their customers needs.
The PHEV wrangler in the US uses a conventional Rubicon drivetrain. Can get about 25km in Low Range from what I’ve seen. Obviously not particularly efficient during regular driving, but at least is solves the off-road side of things. They just need to do something about the batteries exploding in people garages.
Electric vehicle battery fires are very rare. Research by Australian company EV FireSafe has been able to verify approximately 400 EV battery fires globally since 2010. Data from Sweden suggests the likelihood of an EV fire is around 20 times less likely than a petrol/diesel vehicle fire, after accounting for the differences in the market share of each vehicle type. Here in Australia, there are only five verified EV battery fires in road-registered passenger vehicles; one caused by arson, three where the EV was parked in a private residential garage that caught fire due to other causes, and one in a battery that had been removed from an EV in a private car park.
Thanks for the review. We have the BYD Dolphin and when you use the brake normally the stopping is done with regeneration not the friction brake. The friction brakes only work in an emergency situation when you stamp hard on the brakes. Also as already pointed out the BYD has a blade battery (Much safer and more duty cycles so longer lasting) As for fires "Electric vehicle battery fires are very rare. Research by Australian company EV FireSafe has been able to verify approximately 400 EV battery fires globally since 2010. Data from Sweden suggests the likelihood of an EV fire is around 20 times less likely than a petrol/diesel vehicle fire, after accounting for the differences in the market share of each vehicle type. Here in Australia, there are only five verified EV battery fires in road-registered passenger vehicles; one caused by arson, three where the EV was parked in a private residential garage that caught fire due to other causes, and one in a battery that had been removed from an EV in a private car park."
My wife drives a Volt and the brakes are the same as your Dolphin. When I drive it I like to give it a hard stop or 2 to keep the brakes healthy. This does however bring up another potential problem with the shark off road. After a river crossing (not the volt) I always like to give my brakes a bit of run to ensure they are ready for the unexpected. One might think they are clearing the brakes when actually not. Good info on the fires. Many Journo's bring this up with out knowing the facts.
Hi Robert - excellent review. Just thinking through the hill ascent/ wheel torque issue. I do not believe that software can fix the issue. They will need to reduce the overall gearing of the rear wheels thereby creating a different torque split front to rear which they can manage electronically, or perhaps introduce a torque converter between the rear motor and the diff. This would be locked in most circumstances but could Be unlocked to effectively give a torque multiplying low range as Koneigsegg have done on their hybrid.
Im fairly sure prolonged steep incline wont be a problem. As im sure you know (probably mentioned it in your first vid) you can set the SOC target in hev mode. So as long as you are smart and have a %50 plus target if you know you have some prolonged heavy load section you should be fine. Even on a steep climb such as you are describing, im sure your not going to burn through %50 of the battery in 5km with the genset running flat out all the while. On another if they cant get enough torque to the rear axle due to final drive and motor spec. It would be awesome to seem them off an "offraod pack" option in the future with duel range on the rear axle as well as rear difflock. This would solve 2 things, obviously more torque and traction to the rear but also increased regen at low speed.
For off roading the system can also be an advantage, there's no gearbox to overheat, no driveshaft to break, no need to install a second battery system, no need for a snorkel. You could even install solar panels on the large roof space and top up the battery.
All good points, yes, and for fording you'd use EV mode and just stopper up the air intake. There is however a diff to break, and axles, and generally they break before propshafts.
@@L2SFBC Plenty of cv joints too it looks like. Low revs and instant high torque availability is going up murder them in off road situations if the control software is not well tuned (as it looks to be so far).
Good or better 4X4 design= PHEV with a high and low range+ diff lock, to be able to transfer the torque evening to the back when needed. Personally I'd love to bump up that ICE to be 2.0 plus as well. Apart from that it's a great looking vehicle. Maybe Ill hold off until the Shark 7 or 8 though.
@@L2SFBC Right, I guess it depends on what the vehicle is built for: acceleration such as an f1 type sports car, or off road use. It's all a very new world and interesting indeed!
Not sure it was realised that the Shark uses brake by wire. This means, if like other BYD vehicles, it would always use regen as much as possible when the brake pedal is pressed and only resort to friction brakes when regen-braking is not enough, such as when almost at a stop
@@L2SFBC There is no "setting" to get significant regen on BYD vehicles, just as with Porsche EVs. Other then when on adaptive cruise, max regen only comes when the brake pedal is pressed. Max regen will not be activated by lift-off, regardless of settings, and you can see the regen rise way further when the brake is pressed. Note also that pressing the brake pedal does not necessarily activate the friction brakes. You will never feel much retardation without pressing the brake pedal. Even on high lift-off setting might get 20kW regen, but press the brake and you could get 200kW regen. Again, unlike a Tesla, the brake pedal is not directly linked to the friction brakes, and is the main input for regen braking. I like your stuff, and hope this helps.
Thanks, but on this car there were two regen settings. I forget what they're called, but I checked it was set to max. I also drove a Sealion, and it *reduced* regen when I applied brakes, although not hard braking, need to do more. Other EVs I've driven regen quite high with no brakes. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't tally with what I found (or was told). But, could be different cars, and I had very limited time.
Wouldn't it be more fair to compare the Shark against a stock Ford? I mean, any upgrade on a truck, whether it's tires or a raised suspension, can make a big difference.
in the NZ Shark 6 review the HDC was variable, so maybe the software on his preproduction test vehicle had slightly later firmware than your test vehicle.
So in essence light offroading, gravel, small gradient inclines, declines, light sand etc this is good to go. Anything more hard-core look elsewhere. This is a great review.
@L2SFBC Thanks mate for your work. As far as I'm concerned if the Shark does anymore than the above its a win. 90% of buyers (if not more) don't go serious offroading and the above is the most they get upto. I wouldn't want to go rock climbing with a EV with a battery down below anyways. This is perfect for city life with regular weekend camping and offroading on relatively easy to medium trails. Anything harder and I am happy to use something else.
@@L2SFBC judging by the reaction here in NZ yes, you will be lucky to find one. I have a wildtrak and love it, I do not go up steep inclines, I just use it to tow my boat and contend with normal boat ramps. The shark will enable me to sell my MG ev and wildtrak and just have one vehicle. The only downside is parking while doing the shopping, it is big! Mind you, there are a lot of Kia ev9s around here already, and ice range rovers etc.
The sheer weight of this ute makes it less capable offroad by a large margin than the other dual cabs (and of course reduces the towing and load carrying capacity). I can see them being bought, optioned up with sliders, bullbar etc and having very little left for camping.
@L2SFBC thanks Robert. I was thinking of a few things. 1. Your uphill explanation (ie without low range) and 2. Soft sand driving where every extra kg never helps. Great video too. Cheers
Yes, all true, lighter is better, but it's not as big of a problem offroad as it is on say a racetrack. Plenty of very capable 4-tonne 4x4s out there, and Unimogs...
(SPOILER) I watched Ecotricity's video of the BYD Shark 6, and he actually made it up the hill. So, when they calibrate the settings for production vehicles, I feel confident they will be good off-road. How good is yet to be seen. I still think lockers rule and good throttle control.
Great video, after watching it, I really think this Ute is going to have electrical problems and even be a fire risk. I don’t think it’s a safe vehicle for off road driving, but I’m happy to be wrong. I think this Ute will be written off by insurance companies after certain accidents as it will be to expensive to repair or replace the batteries.
Excellent video. However, one question, in an ICE vehicle, the output of the engine can be either transferred to the front or rear axle via mechanical coupling. However, this cannot be possible in EV vehicle, the max power available to each axle is limited by the output of traction motor connected to axle. In other words if the output of rear axle motor is equal to 300Nm, then that's the max it can have, the power from front cannot be brought to rear.
Good episode! A question, if I may: you Lego-demonstate the limitations of decoupled front and back engines. You state that this can be overcome by software. I fail to see that - software could never add the front power to the rear. Or am I missing something?
Software can reduce torque to the front, and provide additional power (current) to the rear...but yes, assuming the rear motor is powerful enough to begin with.
@@L2SFBC For that to be plausible the motors would both need to be twice as big to take twice the normal current - this can't be magically solved by "software".
I find it quite strange that in Aus you use Hilux and Ranger in the same sentence. Here in SA Ranger drivers usually know nothing about offroading and certainly won't take it into the bush. I know the Ford drives well and is powerful but that mean nothing if it breaks in the middle of nowhere.
Great review, helped loads! I'm keen to get your thoughts on whether the Shark will be good enough for novice 4x4ers on beach, dunes and the muddy, rocky tracks to get there. I'm likely to take it places like Wilbinga 4x4 in WA (won't let me add the link). Also have always wanted to try the mundaring weir powerline track, but assuming you would think the Shark couldn't handle that? Would love your thoughts.
@@L2SFBC Awesome thank you. Took a few times in a Triton to get up a dune track in Wilbinga, with your review on hill ascent, I wondered if the Shark might struggle. - th-cam.com/video/oRe56jyV8m8/w-d-xo.html Mundaring powerline track is here - th-cam.com/video/zXlhR7g1Gdw/w-d-xo.html
I have a FWD PHEV, and live on a ridge. Charge the car to 100% and there is no regen braking when fully charged and going downhill when first setting off. So you have to use the brakes.
4:00 Hi. Question: in a part-time 4×4 with an ICE engine, after it is shifted from 2H to 4H, does all the torque go to rear wheels if the front wheels lose traction on a climb? I thought the shifting to 4H locks the torque at 50-50 between the front and rear. So, I thought that while climbing or even otherwise, for such a car, if both wheels on an axle lose traction, the other axle still only has 50% of the torque. Am I wrong? Am not physicist, so forgive my technical inaccuracy, if any.
If a part time 4x4 with an ICE engine is in 4H then it's the same as if it was in 4L, except for the gearing. All the torque can go the rear wheels if there is no resistance on the front wheels, eg if they are in the air. In contrast, a twin motor AWD EV cannot ever use the front motor to add torque to the rear wheels or vice-versa.
will battery degradation on phev effects power delivery on tyre?or it can just rely on constant direct current from the generator to the motors?still confused how the system works 😅
i think they are doing quite well consider BYD is not a typical 4x4 manufacturer. I think it is forgivable, and with your detail review, they have to improve something next time. if these issues happened on GWM, then it is a No-No.
2:12 Bro, instead of baiting for comments you actually discourage people from engaging with your content. You're shooting yourself in the foot! Let them comment "pOwEr sElLs cArS, tOrQuE wInS RaCeS", you benefit from that. Also if I were you I would put "Robert Pepper" first and either dropped the letters and numbers part or placed it in the end, cos, damn, it's like bZ4X and MP4-12C combined! This is clearly a good technical channel, can potentially beat Engineering Explained, but it lacks a cool catchy brand name.
Biggest concerns for me would be metallurgy and spare parts supply chain. No point owning a 60k vehicle if you’re off the road for months waiting for a critical part.
I wonder ifBYD will be allowed to release the car with the 230V AC system, that was NOT allowed in Ford Ranger due to the Energy Police boffins (safety authority)?
No. The room for improvement is torque distribution front/rear and left/right, not tyre grip which is easily changed. I try and orient my tests to eliminate tyre grip as a factor.
@L2SFBC but overall would the ko3 be a butter Tyers for driving as I am thinking of getting one of these but would swap out Tyers as they don't look to be a very good ones
sorry what i am trying to say if you wanted to improve grip on and off road would the ko3 be better than the tyres that come with it as standard fitting. i am enjoying your content on the shark
no reduction makes it kinda shitty offroad. even my old 2.5l 120hp hilux could put like 6000n of torque to the wheel with reduction, even though it was extremely underpowered.
What's the point of doing an analysis if it's not accurate? I'm pretty sure accuracy is part of the definition of anaylsis. I think your "analysis" is a vast oversimplification and overstates the weight distribution shift to the rear wheels. The CoG height from the ground and rear axle have a huge bearing on the shift. The shark will have a lower CoG due to the battery, which reduces the amount of shift. Also, it depends what the weight distribution was to start with. I think the grade force capability is somewhere between 15kN-16kN, depending on the exact CoG position. Stop fuelling these peanuts with half baked calcs. There is more than enough grade capability
Accuracy is part of analysis, precision is not. You note the difference, I'm sure. Given that I did not have the CoG location, or f/r split as you say I could not provide precise information but I think what I did cover is accurate, namely that the bulk of the work falls to the rear axle, which does not have the torque multiplication of a conventional ICE 4x4, and that seems to explain the low gradient figure of only 31 degrees. Which part of that is inaccurate? And "enough grade capability" is subjective. Perhaps 31 will be enough for some, it won't be for others.
@L2SFBC that you say the bulk of the load goes to the rear axle, without knowing the CoG position, is not accurate. The distribution shift could be as little as 10%. When I calculate 15kN-16kN, this is limited by wheel slip, not torque capacity of motors. When I say enough torque, I mean enough to get up that hill.
BYD Shark is not an off-road vehicle. It's a daily use truck and it should be used as such. I can never understand people who are trying to climb rocks with their vehicles. To me it's a dumb thing to do.
@13:09 Robert, there is a really good video on nail penetration tests of the BYD battery that is worth a look. th-cam.com/video/CGQwqWqzkNA/w-d-xo.html
A new video by BYD shows the CarExpert hill climb issue was almost entirely a pre-production software issue th-cam.com/video/jfpaOGCmlcg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=S6z1h15am1UiK1uG
The Shark has a BYD Blade Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery, not a Lithium Ion battery. They dont suffer from thermal runaway....please correct your information in the video. Cheers
Compared to NMC, the chances are so rare that it's almost impossible to find any verified cases worldwide.....I couldn't find any cases when I did research before buying the wife's BYD Dolphin.
both Li-NMC and Li-FP are types of Li-ion batteries. The distinction you make is colloquial, and not strictly correct. You can correctly call an LFP battery Li-ion. And although, they are less prone to thermal runaway, you still don't want to puncture them.
@L2SFBC according to EV Firesafe, there's been 511 fires in 40 Million EVs since 2010. 6 fires in Australia, 1 caused by collision, 1 by road debris, others by external fires and submersion. Seems pretty safe to me!
35 BYD dealers mostly in high population centres, more than 300 dealers for Toyota, 200 for Ford, this is why BYD 'must' do much more setting up infrastructure to become anything other than a 'fifteenth' fiddle in the 4WD sales orchestra. And.... until we see some fairdinkum Vic High Country and Simpson desert toiling Australians will be sceptical about a single gear fully loaded vehicle facing kms of steepness or a hundred dunes depleting the battery day after day. BYD should have done this stuff to the limits to build confidence and mitigate the scepticism, instead of many motoring journo's gushing and peeing themselves (sickening to watch as they all hold out hands for advertising bucks) in excitement over a 2 hour test on mundane gravel/sealed roads. Also if the batt goes into a low power mode (ie, you have just done 200 simmo sandunes fully loaded) and the front wheels are the main driving force what happens to clutches/drivetrain in any steep or laborious offroad situation (no rear drive here also), I guess the clutch pack will be stressed to the limits. Many questions......my advice - dont be the 'test' generation for an untried vehicle/concept/drivetrain....caveat emptor.
BYD Dealers only sell the cars. The cars are serviced and warranty work done by Mycar Tyre and Auto (the old KMart Tyre and Auto) and there's almost 300 of them in Australia.
To be fair Peter, people that do the Simpson or Vic high country aren't buying these things and people who will be buying them are probably tradies, people with active outdoor lifestyles (not hardcore 4wd'ers)- who need a bit of space and moderate off road ability for camping and the like so that word salad is irrelevant.
it was a teaser, they can, and will only get better from here. The important thing is that we now know the basic way it all works, and that is good. Also we now know the design, interior layout and so on. Everybody who is interested in this stuff wants to know more, me included, that is why these vids are not a waste of time, just look at the views.
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU MAKE THE SAME COMMENT!
This is a pre-production vehicle. The software can, and will change which will change some parts of this review.
1. Thanks to Ecotricity for use of their video th-cam.com/video/GIJa4B-J3uE/w-d-xo.html and first part here th-cam.com/video/grnNyixCnSU/w-d-xo.html
2. Error in the incline slide; should be divide by tyre radius. However the overall point is that EVs *may* need additional torque on the rear axle, depending on their gear ratios, motor torque, tyre diameter etc, and the front motor cannot do much to assist so it's mostly on the rear. In addition, the software needs to be good enough to recognise the problem.
3. HDC - I asked, and was told HDC is locked at 8km/h. I had BYD tech people in the car when that little video was shot on the way to the testing ground. Ecotricity stated it would remain at the same speed the vehicle was set to by the driver's pedals and stated it worked down to 2km/h - however in his video the car is clearly travelling much faster than 2km/h, and as you can see in my video, I tried the exact same test, twice, then in reverse and the car went to 8km/h and then maintained. As this is a pre-prod car, I suspect there are different versions of software, and they also said it may change...and PR people are not noted for supplying accurate or complete information.
4. EV fires. An LFP battery is one type of lithium-ion, there's various others. LFP are not immune to fires, or thermal runaway, so still need protection. The probability of a fire is, relative to ICE, low but low is not zero and when you get many, many vehicles the probability rises. Offroaders are more likely to damage the battery back through rocks etc and that introduces a fire risk, LFP or not, and the battery is the lowest part of the vehicle which is good for performance. I think the Ranger PHEV will have its battery over the rear axles which is a much safer place for it, but also poor for performance, and uses space which could be used for drawers or a water tank like in my own Ranger. This is the packaging/space issue I talked about in Video 1." I checked with EV Firesafe who told me they have plenty of BYD fires in their database, and you can also watch this for a technical analysis of fires and LFP. So, please do not comment saying LFPs cannot catch fire. The risk is lower it appears but not zero. th-cam.com/video/YvQ9NEw76G8/w-d-xo.html And yes there is a BYD video...but really, you going to trust a manufacturer marketing video?
5. Regen - I tested a Dolphin the same day and came down a hill, Lake Mountain for those that know it, and found that soon as I touched the friction brakes regen decreased. Regardless, there is insufficient retardation from regen alone on max on the Shark, and we did not do anything I would class as steep, or long, and the vehicle was light.
Great analysis on the whole but your assessment about fire risk is overblown. You admit the fire risk is lower than ICE and yet devote space to qualifying the very low but non-zero risk? You wouldn't bother even mentioning it in an ICE vehicle and, while it should be raised, given Lithium ion's potential fire risk, a balanced assessment would be something like "The LFP chemistry makes an already low risk far lower than an ICE vehicle" and leave it at that.
That omits the offroad component of the vehicle's use which raises the fire risk once again. That is why there is so much protection for the battery, and why Ironman are bringing out an additional bashplate. BYD provided us the information I relayed and they did that for a reason, because they saw a risk. Two days ago I was inspecting the wreck of a Tesla Y which had flipped over an armco barrier and ripped its battery in the process and caught fire, which is the sort of damage offroaders may incur. Now with all that done, I think people can go ahead, buy the car and drive offroad, not worrying any more about fire than they would with an ICE.
@@L2SFBC Ironman are bringing out a bashplate to cash in on peoples fears. I would be more concerned about addons changing the cooling profile. Its been proven how low the fire risk is, however the reason why I think you should still note it is not because of the chances, that part is good! The reason to mention the fire risk is the type and speed of the fire, and the potential for electronic door opening mechanisms failing. An emergency window breaker, for 20 bucks, is probably the best investment any EV (or any car) driver to have handy.
I noted the Ironman plate in a video. Please also see my recent video on a Tesla EV fire.
@@L2SFBC Finding examples of fires is of almost no value, except as another lesson for being able to identify manufacturing improvements that reduce the fire risk (eg moving to LFP batteries). However, the risk of fire is above zero, whether you own an ICE or an EV. People buy ICE vehicles understanding the risk of fire is low. If the risk of fire from EVs is the same or lower then where is the beef?
For someone who will likely never do any off-roading, light or otherwise, your review and analysis of the Shark 6's off-roading capability was absolutely exceptional.
THAT was exactly the analysis I was hoping for regarding the low-range situation. Thank you!
Yeah this opened my eyes as to why it might still be a good to have in an ev.
@@badharrow Yeah, for small "soft-roaders" (like my Outlander PHEV) an EV drive-train kind of makes up for lack of low-range, but this illustrates why it may be essential for heavier, serious off-roaders - especially one designed to carry a load.
This might be the only offroad capable EV ute I've seen so far
The Rivian, Cybertruck and others are examples. Jeep has a PHEV Wrangler, Range Rover Sport PHEV and others.
@@L2SFBC by any chance, might you do an offroad comparison between the EVs you've mentioned. Just to see how robust their traction systems are. Similar to the comparison you had with the LC300, Y62, Grenadier and Defender.
If I can get them, yes, but that is very unlikely. You can see the Range Rover Sport PHEV here - th-cam.com/video/4tIwURqjkzw/w-d-xo.html
@@L2SFBC name one at the price point where the Shark is at. And more to the point, ones you can buy in Australia
Yep
I have watched many reviews on the BYD Shark. This review is head and shoulders above anything else out there. Well done!
thanks, more to come
Excellent detailed review! I'm told the initial Shark release is more on road focused with some off road capability as this is where the bulk of the UTE market sits. There will be more off road capable variants down track similar to the Fang Cheng Bao Leopard 5 which shares the same DMO platform as the Shark.
Fang Cheng Bao or Yangwang are eating Jeep & Ford's lunch, at least from what I see in off-road videos from China
Proffesional review .. highly appreciated Part 1&2
thank you!
Part 3 is out now 😊
Excellent report on the SHARK, in depth and precise. It appears to be a real winner in the UTE market and appears to be very competitive unless you are looking for a serious off road option.
Agreed!
I crave content like this. Much better than the rest who just read the sales tag
Stand by for Part 3!
I think that is by far the best video I've ever seen for a car review.
thank you
this is an actual review. had to shift through so much brochure reading videos before I found this.
As this point I am planning to buy. I have benn worried that the only reviews so far have been coming from press events. Very happy see some critical analysis.
I like this type of review, more data analysis and facts on paper. Solid evidence from scientific point. Also good education of all round off road and EV knowledge. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
Fantastic video. Just an information, I have a BYD Dolphin and a BYD Seal. Both use regen when you press the brakes. It's a collaborative system, hydraulic brakes are used only when you press the pedal hard. There is no reason for Shark to not use this feature also. Just check the value of negative kW when you press the brakes. Another detail, BYD cars have OTA updates. They did one on the Seal when a youtuber found that the car could not climb hills in slippery conditions. So many issues that Shark has now may be fixed in the future and all owners can receive the update.
I tested a Dolphin on a hill that same day and found that soon as I used the friction brakes, the regen decreased. But yes, pressing the 'brakes' is a complex function of regen vs friction brakes. I agree with OTA, much of what I found can be fixed with software.
@@L2SFBCThere is a catch. If the battery is above 95%, there is no increase in regeneration when pressing the pedal. Below that, regeneration is quite high. Probably the battery was fully charged when you tested the Dolphin.
No, it wasn't fully charged, went from 19 to 27% downhill. Regen can work even when battery at 100%, the energy is just dissipated. Also, if the battery is too hot it will not accept full, or partial charge.
"the hill problem" , I think you are 100% right, Bao 5 has 200KW 360 Nm and 280KW 400Nm motors and it can climb 45 degrees and 100% grade according to BYD, not only the motors are more powerful but it has a "4L" gear on the rear axle only, so another reduction gear on the rear axel
This is a masterpiece of a review. Never seen it before. Wow. Subscribed
Thanks!
It has the BYD Blade battery which can be punctured without causing thermal runaway.
hopefully
@@L2SFBCnot hopefully.. actually.. proven by multiple independent laboratories and near 20 years of LFP chemistry batteries being used in server room UPSs with close to zero fires. Close to, in the same sense that SLAs can also cause a fire if you short out the terminals with a flammable material on top
@@L2SFBCplease do your research before you comment if you don't know a topic, you lose your credibility this way
@@jspanga using batteries in server rooms for 20 years without incident is hardly scientific proof they do not have any concerns when used in a vehicle. I'm not saying either way but you argument isn't convincing me they are safe, I'm hopeful but not assured.
@@johnwayne8475 Hopefully, you have done yours
Great review Robert. I note you talk about battery damage and possible fire from Litium Iron batteries. The Shark 6 has a LFP battery not a Lithium Iron. The BYD Blade battery does not have puncture fire issues!
See pinned comment re battery
Excellent and professional analysis! Great video 👍🏻
Glad you liked it!
It is good to hear from a presenter who knows what off roaders want to know. I have seen silly comments from obviously non wheeling presenters on 4wd related issues.
Thanks, any examples?
@L2SFBC I will think about wether I wish to say. edit won't name names, .
@L2SFBC I have heard many say it isn't a 4wd because it don't have xxxx etc
on a different car one presenter described a car as not a real 4wd because there was no chassis. Just an ev dressed up to look like a 4wd lol. No mention of suspension travel or other relevant things. In fairness could not test it off road.
@@L2SFBC Silliest things are comparisons to cars totally unrelated, probably promotional or marketing reasons.
1:39 In HEV mode, like you said last video from 60 to 70 km/h up the ICE motor can kick in for direct drive the front axle and recharge the battery, and the rear motor can also drive the rear axle in normal/sport mode for my Bao 5
Thanks Robert, as others have commented another excellent explanation and review.
Glad it was helpful!
The first 12months will be a great tester for the shark in Australia especially for people who want to see if this is a viable off-roader
After the suckup video from the Sauce guys, which focused on looks, infotainment, and plush materials, this review is refreshing for people who want to take it out beyond the school run. Lack of torque and weight sees it struggle in mud as seen in the video you referenced.
This channel is meat and vegetables, not sauce. It doesn't lack torque, and yes weight is high, but a big reason it struggled in the other video is that the first car broke the crust and made it harder for the second. This was not realised in the video. A fairer comparison would have been to not follow the ruts exactly.
Hi Robert, the BYD leopard 5 has 2:1 low-range gear at the rear axle only, boost the total ratio to 21. It has slightly bigger electric motor than the Shark, 400Nm. give max 8400Nm of torque, which advised in Chinese Market
In real world test, The leopard 5 can achieve 39degree climb, but failed at 42-degree slope, the vehicle could not even stop on the slope, front wheels braked but the rear wheels spinning with full brake, very dangerous
thanks, that's much better! Bigger motor, greater reduction is what we need!
@@jeremyyang9895 少看懂车帝
@@jeremyyang9895 you are watching test from one of well known byd hater dongchedi. All their video is down playing byd badly
Ecotricity NZ had HDC set for 2km/h (20 . 55 in his video ) and seemed to work well
Our cars were fixed at 8km/h. His video showed the car well above 8km/h. Possibly the PR people told him 2, and maybe his car can do 2, but it was not shown as such.
BYD should be able to set up the regen braking system to operate like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (latest generation). These cars will send excess regen braking force through the generator to the engine, so effectively like engine braking in an ICE car. My Outlander does this when the battery capacity is too high to accept regen but in theory it should be possible to let the engine soak up regen in addition to what the battery can accept regen when the battery SOC is low enough to accept very high regen levels.
Love your work, thanks.
Much appreciated, thanks for watching!
I believe that the pre production units used in testing have some software problems in the drive settings that will be fixed when the production units begin being shipped. Also, a NZ reviewer driving in real world on-road conditions got 88km's out of the battery before it hit 25% and the engine kicked in.
Yes, that reviewer allowed me to use a clip for his video.
Also that reviewer did get up the hill eventually😃 he just kept pressing buttons until one of them gave him the traction he needed. However he did not make it clear what he actually did! He also emphasized that this was pre pro model, so his guess was it needs a software update to fix it. I own an MG ev and like most Chinese companies they actually do listen to feedback, and act! quite refreshing in this day and age.
As this is their first attempt at an off road vehicle, I think it’s ok.
They will be learning from feedback. I am sure they will make frequent updates to accommodate their customers needs.
Agreed!
I watched a Brazilian video where they said BYD were aware of the downhill decent being too fast at 8km/hr and were going to fix it.
Super helpful. Thank you.
Glad you found it helpful.
The PHEV wrangler in the US uses a conventional Rubicon drivetrain. Can get about 25km in Low Range from what I’ve seen. Obviously not particularly efficient during regular driving, but at least is solves the off-road side of things. They just need to do something about the batteries exploding in people garages.
Electric vehicle battery fires are very rare. Research by Australian company EV FireSafe has been able to verify approximately 400 EV battery fires globally since 2010.
Data from Sweden suggests the likelihood of an EV fire is around 20 times less likely than a petrol/diesel vehicle fire, after accounting for the differences in the market share of each vehicle type.
Here in Australia, there are only five verified EV battery fires in road-registered passenger vehicles; one caused by arson, three where the EV was parked in a private residential garage that caught fire due to other causes, and one in a battery that had been removed from an EV in a private car park.
@@GaryHowlett-c4w those wranglers had a habit of exploding. Feel free to research it. And I’m a wrangler fan.
Jeeps also have a problem with petrol versions just catching on fire. It's a Jeep thing!
@@cwilliams4227 no. There is actually a recall on the PHEV wrangler and Cherokee for exploding batteries
Another great vid
Appreciate that
Thanks for the review. We have the BYD Dolphin and when you use the brake normally the stopping is done with regeneration not the friction brake. The friction brakes only work in an emergency situation when you stamp hard on the brakes. Also as already pointed out the BYD has a blade battery (Much safer and more duty cycles so longer lasting) As for fires "Electric vehicle battery fires are very rare. Research by Australian company EV FireSafe has been able to verify approximately 400 EV battery fires globally since 2010.
Data from Sweden suggests the likelihood of an EV fire is around 20 times less likely than a petrol/diesel vehicle fire, after accounting for the differences in the market share of each vehicle type.
Here in Australia, there are only five verified EV battery fires in road-registered passenger vehicles; one caused by arson, three where the EV was parked in a private residential garage that caught fire due to other causes, and one in a battery that had been removed from an EV in a private car park."
My wife drives a Volt and the brakes are the same as your Dolphin. When I drive it I like to give it a hard stop or 2 to keep the brakes healthy. This does however bring up another potential problem with the shark off road. After a river crossing (not the volt) I always like to give my brakes a bit of run to ensure they are ready for the unexpected. One might think they are clearing the brakes when actually not.
Good info on the fires. Many Journo's bring this up with out knowing the facts.
See pinned comment on fires
Hi Robert - excellent review. Just thinking through the hill ascent/ wheel torque issue. I do not believe that software can fix the issue. They will need to reduce the overall gearing of the rear wheels thereby creating a different torque split front to rear which they can manage electronically, or perhaps introduce a torque converter between the rear motor and the diff. This would be locked in most circumstances but could Be unlocked to effectively give a torque multiplying low range as Koneigsegg have done on their hybrid.
Yes however they may be able to have the motor reduce margins and provide additional torque temporarily.
Yes or increase the power of the rear motor unit. 👍
Also works!
Im fairly sure prolonged steep incline wont be a problem. As im sure you know (probably mentioned it in your first vid) you can set the SOC target in hev mode. So as long as you are smart and have a %50 plus target if you know you have some prolonged heavy load section you should be fine. Even on a steep climb such as you are describing, im sure your not going to burn through %50 of the battery in 5km with the genset running flat out all the while.
On another if they cant get enough torque to the rear axle due to final drive and motor spec. It would be awesome to seem them off an "offraod pack" option in the future with duel range on the rear axle as well as rear difflock. This would solve 2 things, obviously more torque and traction to the rear but also increased regen at low speed.
Agreed, more concerned about things overheating. It's the descent which is of greater concern. You never know with cars until you try.
@@L2SFBC Totally agree. Would love to know the duty cycle of the motors at 40c at %100 output.
The traction issues can also be addressed by aftermarket diff locks as used in every other 4WD.
Not the front/rear issue, and in 2024, it shouldn't need to be.
they are not driven by an electric motor on each axle, quite different.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Good analysis. Thks
You're welcome
My understanding is that the hill decent is adjustable up and down using the cruise control speed toggle.
BYD told me it was fixed. They told Ecotiricty it would retain a set speed by pedals. Seems to be fixed on 8km/h.
Excellent coverage Robert, thanks.
I think the Shark is equipped with LiFePO4 cells?
For off roading the system can also be an advantage, there's no gearbox to overheat, no driveshaft to break, no need to install a second battery system, no need for a snorkel. You could even install solar panels on the large roof space and top up the battery.
All good points, yes, and for fording you'd use EV mode and just stopper up the air intake. There is however a diff to break, and axles, and generally they break before propshafts.
@@L2SFBC Plenty of cv joints too it looks like. Low revs and instant high torque availability is going up murder them in off road situations if the control software is not well tuned (as it looks to be so far).
Good or better 4X4 design= PHEV with a high and low range+ diff lock, to be able to transfer the torque evening to the back when needed. Personally I'd love to bump up that ICE to be 2.0 plus as well. Apart from that it's a great looking vehicle. Maybe Ill hold off until the Shark 7 or 8 though.
Yes, I see your point, but adding shafts does kind of destroy EV advantages.
@@L2SFBC Right, I guess it depends on what the vehicle is built for: acceleration such as an f1 type sports car, or off road use. It's all a very new world and interesting indeed!
Not sure it was realised that the Shark uses brake by wire. This means, if like other BYD vehicles, it would always use regen as much as possible when the brake pedal is pressed and only resort to friction brakes when regen-braking is not enough, such as when almost at a stop
I set regen to max, and still little retardation.
@@L2SFBC There is no "setting" to get significant regen on BYD vehicles, just as with Porsche EVs.
Other then when on adaptive cruise, max regen only comes when the brake pedal is pressed. Max regen will not be activated by lift-off, regardless of settings, and you can see the regen rise way further when the brake is pressed. Note also that pressing the brake pedal does not necessarily activate the friction brakes.
You will never feel much retardation without pressing the brake pedal. Even on high lift-off setting might get 20kW regen, but press the brake and you could get 200kW regen. Again, unlike a Tesla, the brake pedal is not directly linked to the friction brakes, and is the main input for regen braking. I like your stuff, and hope this helps.
Thanks, but on this car there were two regen settings. I forget what they're called, but I checked it was set to max. I also drove a Sealion, and it *reduced* regen when I applied brakes, although not hard braking, need to do more. Other EVs I've driven regen quite high with no brakes. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't tally with what I found (or was told). But, could be different cars, and I had very limited time.
good review, i figured out the solution to drive up the steeper slope. just drive up it backwards...😀
:-)
Wouldn't it be more fair to compare the Shark against a stock Ford? I mean, any upgrade on a truck, whether it's tires or a raised suspension, can make a big difference.
I didn't have a stock ford, just my 2012 Ranger. Suspension didn't make a difference, nor did tyres really on that specific test.
in the NZ Shark 6 review the HDC was variable, so maybe the software on his preproduction test vehicle had slightly later firmware than your test vehicle.
Yes, they are updating it all the time but I watched that, and the car was NOT moving at 2km/h.
So in essence light offroading, gravel, small gradient inclines, declines, light sand etc this is good to go.
Anything more hard-core look elsewhere.
This is a great review.
Maybe a bit more than that bur I need to test it to be sure
@L2SFBC Thanks mate for your work. As far as I'm concerned if the Shark does anymore than the above its a win. 90% of buyers (if not more) don't go serious offroading and the above is the most they get upto. I wouldn't want to go rock climbing with a EV with a battery down below anyways. This is perfect for city life with regular weekend camping and offroading on relatively easy to medium trails. Anything harder and I am happy to use something else.
Agreed!
Awesome review will you be doing another review with the full production vehicle as opposed to this pre production?
If I can get one...
@@L2SFBC judging by the reaction here in NZ yes, you will be lucky to find one. I have a wildtrak and love it, I do not go up steep inclines, I just use it to tow my boat and contend with normal boat ramps. The shark will enable me to sell my MG ev and wildtrak and just have one vehicle. The only downside is parking while doing the shopping, it is big! Mind you, there are a lot of Kia ev9s around here already, and ice range rovers etc.
The sheer weight of this ute makes it less capable offroad by a large margin than the other dual cabs (and of course reduces the towing and load carrying capacity). I can see them being bought, optioned up with sliders, bullbar etc and having very little left for camping.
It's maybe 400kg heavier than a diesel, and that won't make much difference offroad.
@L2SFBC thanks Robert. I was thinking of a few things. 1. Your uphill explanation (ie without low range) and 2. Soft sand driving where every extra kg never helps. Great video too. Cheers
Yes, all true, lighter is better, but it's not as big of a problem offroad as it is on say a racetrack. Plenty of very capable 4-tonne 4x4s out there, and Unimogs...
They should take the engineers and programmers to Moreton Island. If they can get it to work there it will be a winner
(SPOILER) I watched Ecotricity's video of the BYD Shark 6, and he actually made it up the hill. So, when they calibrate the settings for production vehicles, I feel confident they will be good off-road. How good is yet to be seen. I still think lockers rule and good throttle control.
He did but getting up or not was not what I was getting at. More interested on behaviour when it failed. Happy I got permission to include!
@@L2SFBC When all four wheels lock when braking backward down the hill?
Yes. Was ideal.
Great video, after watching it, I really think this Ute is going to have electrical problems and even be a fire risk. I don’t think it’s a safe vehicle for off road driving, but I’m happy to be wrong. I think this Ute will be written off by insurance companies after certain accidents as it will be to expensive to repair or replace the batteries.
I think it will be safe enough.
Excellent video. However, one question, in an ICE vehicle, the output of the engine can be either transferred to the front or rear axle via mechanical coupling. However, this cannot be possible in EV vehicle, the max power available to each axle is limited by the output of traction motor connected to axle. In other words if the output of rear axle motor is equal to 300Nm, then that's the max it can have, the power from front cannot be brought to rear.
Correct
Good episode!
A question, if I may: you Lego-demonstate the limitations of decoupled front and back engines. You state that this can be overcome by software. I fail to see that - software could never add the front power to the rear. Or am I missing something?
Software can reduce torque to the front, and provide additional power (current) to the rear...but yes, assuming the rear motor is powerful enough to begin with.
@@L2SFBC For that to be plausible the motors would both need to be twice as big to take twice the normal current - this can't be magically solved by "software".
I find it quite strange that in Aus you use Hilux and Ranger in the same sentence. Here in SA Ranger drivers usually know nothing about offroading and certainly won't take it into the bush. I know the Ford drives well and is powerful but that mean nothing if it breaks in the middle of nowhere.
شرح مذهل قناه تستحق النشر والمتابعة معلومات من ذهب 🌹❤️
Thank you more to come
Great review, helped loads! I'm keen to get your thoughts on whether the Shark will be good enough for novice 4x4ers on beach, dunes and the muddy, rocky tracks to get there. I'm likely to take it places like Wilbinga 4x4 in WA (won't let me add the link).
Also have always wanted to try the mundaring weir powerline track, but assuming you would think the Shark couldn't handle that?
Would love your thoughts.
Very general comment, but yes, I think it'd be ok for that. Not familiar with the powerline track, it's a common 4x4 track name.
@@L2SFBC Awesome thank you. Took a few times in a Triton to get up a dune track in Wilbinga, with your review on hill ascent, I wondered if the Shark might struggle. - th-cam.com/video/oRe56jyV8m8/w-d-xo.html
Mundaring powerline track is here - th-cam.com/video/zXlhR7g1Gdw/w-d-xo.html
I have a FWD PHEV, and live on a ridge. Charge the car to 100% and there is no regen braking when fully charged and going downhill when first setting off. So you have to use the brakes.
Who’d have thunk it: a full battery won’t accept any more charge.
HDC or crawl control if I remember correctly it has 10 speed settings on Bao 5, maybe another software fix in the future for Shark?
I think so...
And I haven't had a chance drive that long distance mountain terrain, for my offroad experiences I havent seen any Bao 5 overheated its brakes yet
4:00 Hi. Question:
in a part-time 4×4 with an ICE engine, after it is shifted from 2H to 4H, does all the torque go to rear wheels if the front wheels lose traction on a climb? I thought the shifting to 4H locks the torque at 50-50 between the front and rear. So, I thought that while climbing or even otherwise, for such a car, if both wheels on an axle lose traction, the other axle still only has 50% of the torque. Am I wrong? Am not physicist, so forgive my technical inaccuracy, if any.
If a part time 4x4 with an ICE engine is in 4H then it's the same as if it was in 4L, except for the gearing. All the torque can go the rear wheels if there is no resistance on the front wheels, eg if they are in the air. In contrast, a twin motor AWD EV cannot ever use the front motor to add torque to the rear wheels or vice-versa.
How about the need to offer low range transfer case in shark multiply its torque for steep offroad climb..
Not a bad idea
FIAT CAMPAGNOLA was geared and engineered to climb 51d
wow!
will battery degradation on phev effects power delivery on tyre?or it can just rely on constant direct current from the generator to the motors?still confused how the system works 😅
Constant
Very surprising about the gear ratio for climbing hills. I always thought that the electric motors had exceptional torque.
They do. It's the multiplication that's the thing.
i think they are doing quite well consider BYD is not a typical 4x4 manufacturer. I think it is forgivable, and with your detail review, they have to improve something next time. if these issues happened on GWM, then it is a No-No.
19:44 Because the screen can be vertical, Android applications that can only be run vertically run smoothly on the BYD. Like watching tik tok
will the ironman adaptations be over and above the drive away price?
Extra
@@L2SFBC Thank you
Wish it would come to the US market. We are paying 60k-80k usd for pickup trucks 😢
The BYD Blade battery doesn't combust when punctured, in fact it will keep working! Do a search on youtube
See pinned comment. It is still a risk.
1question mate. Does it look like you can fit 17" steel rims or are the brakes to big?
17s should fit we think
2:12 Bro, instead of baiting for comments you actually discourage people from engaging with your content. You're shooting yourself in the foot! Let them comment "pOwEr sElLs cArS, tOrQuE wInS RaCeS", you benefit from that.
Also if I were you I would put "Robert Pepper" first and either dropped the letters and numbers part or placed it in the end, cos, damn, it's like bZ4X and MP4-12C combined! This is clearly a good technical channel, can potentially beat Engineering Explained, but it lacks a cool catchy brand name.
Thank you, appreciate the helpful feedback. Will consider.
Biggest concerns for me would be metallurgy and spare parts supply chain.
No point owning a 60k vehicle if you’re off the road for months waiting for a critical part.
I wonder ifBYD will be allowed to release the car with the 230V AC system, that was NOT allowed in Ford Ranger due to the Energy Police boffins (safety authority)?
Would bfg ko3 make this a lot better
No. The room for improvement is torque distribution front/rear and left/right, not tyre grip which is easily changed. I try and orient my tests to eliminate tyre grip as a factor.
@L2SFBC but overall would the ko3 be a butter Tyers for driving as I am thinking of getting one of these but would swap out Tyers as they don't look to be a very good ones
sorry what i am trying to say if you wanted to improve grip on and off road would the ko3 be better than the tyres that come with it as standard fitting. i am enjoying your content on the shark
Yes, KO3s would improve grip. But, adding KO3s wouldn't make much difference in this test.
Excuse me, what is the map app you are using?
Whatever the standard is on the Shark
@@L2SFBC Sorry, I mean the interactive map you are using to demonstrate the terrain of the testing range at around 9:14.
Yes it's the SHARK default
@@L2SFBC ok, thanks, that is suprising to know
Think it's Google Maps but not sure, didn't check
No mention of the plug in charging. Why? Its a PHEV.
Wait for the next part
It has CCS2. Pretty simple!
(A little over 50kW max DC, and 7 kW AC.)
If BYD was to build the shark in the USA, they would sell a lot of them the choices we have now are not that good 😡
Am I to understand that HYBRIDS will be phased out with ICE vehicles in accordance with Government move to phase out all ICE vehicles?
Essentially yes th-cam.com/video/bk8wsCc4ZAs/w-d-xo.html
no reduction makes it kinda shitty offroad. even my old 2.5l 120hp hilux could put like 6000n of torque to the wheel with reduction, even though it was extremely underpowered.
What's the point of doing an analysis if it's not accurate? I'm pretty sure accuracy is part of the definition of anaylsis. I think your "analysis" is a vast oversimplification and overstates the weight distribution shift to the rear wheels. The CoG height from the ground and rear axle have a huge bearing on the shift. The shark will have a lower CoG due to the battery, which reduces the amount of shift. Also, it depends what the weight distribution was to start with. I think the grade force capability is somewhere between 15kN-16kN, depending on the exact CoG position. Stop fuelling these peanuts with half baked calcs. There is more than enough grade capability
Accuracy is part of analysis, precision is not. You note the difference, I'm sure. Given that I did not have the CoG location, or f/r split as you say I could not provide precise information but I think what I did cover is accurate, namely that the bulk of the work falls to the rear axle, which does not have the torque multiplication of a conventional ICE 4x4, and that seems to explain the low gradient figure of only 31 degrees. Which part of that is inaccurate? And "enough grade capability" is subjective. Perhaps 31 will be enough for some, it won't be for others.
@L2SFBC that you say the bulk of the load goes to the rear axle, without knowing the CoG position, is not accurate. The distribution shift could be as little as 10%. When I calculate 15kN-16kN, this is limited by wheel slip, not torque capacity of motors. When I say enough torque, I mean enough to get up that hill.
I have seen reports out of china of owners who have torn out the tow bar and pore quality metal over all . Wouldn't touch it if you tow anything.
I thought it was not available in China?
BYD Shark is not an off-road vehicle. It's a daily use truck and it should be used as such. I can never understand people who are trying to climb rocks with their vehicles. To me it's a dumb thing to do.
well, it has drive modes for Mud, Sand and Mountain....
You have not had a son then?
Not a vehicle for trade or offroad not a patch on Ranger Phev .
Cus some manufacturers advertised their vehicles to do that.
lithium iron phosphate. No thermal runaway when pierced. Far less fire risk than an ICE using petrol. Diesel is slightly less risk.
No there is still a risk of TR. Lower but possible.
They can't make an electric car but they know more🤣
1 ton payload and I’m in
Weights coming next video...you'll be disappointed
@13:09 Robert, there is a really good video on nail penetration tests of the BYD battery that is worth a look. th-cam.com/video/CGQwqWqzkNA/w-d-xo.html
please say Shark....as Shhhhhaaaaaarrrrkkk
Nooooooo
A new video by BYD shows the CarExpert hill climb issue was almost entirely a pre-production software issue th-cam.com/video/jfpaOGCmlcg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=S6z1h15am1UiK1uG
Maybe the Shark is made for tradies, its a working shark and is not for offroad shark :)
How much for Raptor and how much for shark?😂
Depends where you live, but Shark cheaper.
The Shark has a BYD Blade Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery, not a Lithium Ion battery. They dont suffer from thermal runaway....please correct your information in the video. Cheers
No, can still catch fire/runaway. See pinned comment,
Compared to NMC, the chances are so rare that it's almost impossible to find any verified cases worldwide.....I couldn't find any cases when I did research before buying the wife's BYD Dolphin.
EV FireSafe has plenty. Ask them.
both Li-NMC and Li-FP are types of Li-ion batteries. The distinction you make is colloquial, and not strictly correct. You can correctly call an LFP battery Li-ion. And although, they are less prone to thermal runaway, you still don't want to puncture them.
@L2SFBC according to EV Firesafe, there's been 511 fires in 40 Million EVs since 2010. 6 fires in Australia, 1 caused by collision, 1 by road debris, others by external fires and submersion. Seems pretty safe to me!
What do those letters and numbers on the shirt mean in communist China ?
Numbers?
35 BYD dealers mostly in high population centres, more than 300 dealers for Toyota, 200 for Ford, this is why BYD 'must' do much more setting up infrastructure to become anything other than a 'fifteenth' fiddle in the 4WD sales orchestra. And.... until we see some fairdinkum Vic High Country and Simpson desert toiling Australians will be sceptical about a single gear fully loaded vehicle facing kms of steepness or a hundred dunes depleting the battery day after day. BYD should have done this stuff to the limits to build confidence and mitigate the scepticism, instead of many motoring journo's gushing and peeing themselves (sickening to watch as they all hold out hands for advertising bucks) in excitement over a 2 hour test on mundane gravel/sealed roads. Also if the batt goes into a low power mode (ie, you have just done 200 simmo sandunes fully loaded) and the front wheels are the main driving force what happens to clutches/drivetrain in any steep or laborious offroad situation (no rear drive here also), I guess the clutch pack will be stressed to the limits. Many questions......my advice - dont be the 'test' generation for an untried vehicle/concept/drivetrain....caveat emptor.
BYD Dealers only sell the cars. The cars are serviced and warranty work done by Mycar Tyre and Auto (the old KMart Tyre and Auto) and there's almost 300 of them in Australia.
To be fair Peter, people that do the Simpson or Vic high country aren't buying these things and people who will be buying them are probably tradies, people with active outdoor lifestyles (not hardcore 4wd'ers)- who need a bit of space and moderate off road ability for camping and the like so that word salad is irrelevant.
Agreed, Shaun. Whilst I have analysed offroad ability, not everyone needs/does hard offroad. The Shark has enough ability for many.
@@L2SFBC You have analysed nothing, these are pre-production models, what you stated in merely conjecture, nothing more.
@@shaun1900he can only work with what he got
two extensive video's on a vehicle that was tested in pre-production mode should be completely ignored.
Why?
it was a teaser, they can, and will only get better from here. The important thing is that we now know the basic way it all works, and that is good. Also we now know the design, interior layout and so on. Everybody who is interested in this stuff wants to know more, me included, that is why these vids are not a waste of time, just look at the views.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf and you could have got exactly the same insights with a 9 minute video. They are pre-production, beta products if you like.
Exactly, a lot of what I covered will not change in the production models. They're not suddenly going to make it a parallel-hybrid, for example.
He has compared everything but price lol
At the time was not known
Going to call it, its a ALL ROAD vehicle, like a Subaru, nothing more
Will go further than a Subie.
Wtf is this out already?
Nearly. 29th Oct.
Ford will soon build Ford Ranger Raptor Orca. Orca will eat that Shark😂😂😂