The alliance should have used things like technicals. Imagine a typical hover car in Star Wars. They're very common. But if they could strap a blaster to the front of it or the back, they could be extremely swift. I think it was wasted that they didn't use those types of technicals. If you don't know what that is, it's a civilian car, usually with. Metal strapped on for armor or welding on a gun, just usually. Easy to find stuff. That the rubble lines could easily get on any world with a population. Parts would be available to. And it could probably be left behind if need be.
also a heavy blaster can take out a ATATs leg and the empire rarely gave them ground support imaginwhat a fast hover car with a heavy blaster could do to a slow ATAT or ATST they are very slow to turn
I like to think that the T4B and equivalents were often bought for a single important raid, and rigged to explode when abandoned to do more damage to imperial holdings after the crew evacuates, is captured or killed. But only on the big important stuff, ground equivalents of what they'd task an MC80 to in space for example.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 yeah it's a common debate and the Literal heavy armor and Turbor lasers of the walkers where purpose built for a massive ground war like that, even the Humbles AT ST has variant with Anti Armor rocket pods.
@@joey8062 Power, durability, and effectiveness easily go to walkers like the AT-AT. However, mobility, practicality, and efficiency are points that go to hovertanks like the S-1 Firehawke, and the Imperial-1 series of tanks. There isn't any tank, save maybe the equally impractical XR-85 or Protodeka, that can stand up to an AT-AT 1 vs 1.
The rebels didn't have large transport ships and drop ships like the Republic and Separatists and could only get their hands on whatever is available so its no surprise that there weren't any large ground scale battles like the ones in clone wars.
Also because the empire had way more troops in general, and more advanced vehicles. The rebels were way better off sticking with the hit-and-run tactics
Plus all the other factions and the empire had funding through the galactic banks, corporations, or planets capable of large contributions. The rebels had none of that leading to such a large deficiency in capabilities.
I suprised the never use old separatist tanks(like the AAT), there must have been millions left over after the clone wars or the pirate tank model that Hondo and his gang had.
@Enclave here, why isn't your video feed working? organics crewed it at least once in the clones, being in the arc where the republic funds terrorism, however even if they couldn't then they could modify them, the real reason is they don't really need tanks, you can't hit and run with a tank very well
Yeah the AAT, STAP, and certain versions of their shuttles were really the only things organic beings could use. A gutted MTT would work as well. Pretty much anything CIS not originally used by the Trade Federation were just larger specialized droids.
@HBTDawgz16 not entirely true, the STAP wasn't actually able to be piloted by a human, we do see jedi jump on them for a second time to time, but in lore there engines get so hot that an organic pilot can't withstand the heat, but it could be modfied to work, probably
I can't help but love the rebel vehicles, I'm sorry. They just looked so cool when I was a kid! Plus using their tank in Battlefront 2 Classic was fun!
I feel like the rebels would be capable of using ground vehicles more if they simply had drop ships they could use to transport them. Think something like an LAAT/C they could use to drop something off, then pick it up and go after it does it’s job.
This is what Force Commander got right. The Attack Tank was the rebel heavy tank - but really it was a turbolaser with treads and more importantly a homing missile launcher. They barely won a head to head with an AT-ST but using your support assets you could use the missile launcher and Y-Wings to weaken the Imperial forces enough to be able to hit hard and fast and win the day.
@@hosmerhomeboy the controls are clunky but it was a fantastic idea. Music was also magnificent according to my then 11 year old brain that still has its hands on the nostalgia swith
Yes, they went down the cavalry route, which makes a lot of sense. Very cheap, needs minimal supplies, able to handle rougher terrain and potentially can be used as a source of food, heat and for other survival needs.
Ya know, after Endor I think the Rebels would probably get more and heavier ground vehicles because by that point the Empire is on the backfoot and have lost their leadership so it makes a bit of sense to me that Late War the Rebels could afford to have tanks and whatnot become more common.
they would very likely have more available to them after Endor, but I‘m not sure that their willingness to actually utilize them would have risen as well the Imperial Armored Korps was still formidable at that time and using close air support (aka star fighters and bombers) was probably a lot likelier
Part of the issue is that the rebels by their nature need to move around a lot. As in, leave the planet. So something that cannot leave the planet on its own, and is too big/heavy to quickly load onto an escaping ship (and thus also difficult to deploy with a relatively small and fast ship in cases where they launch a ground attack on an imperial holding due to actually needing to get people inside it for some reason) does not mesh with them.
Why? It's no different to moving a lot of their other equipment - or things like grounded X-Wings, snowspeeders, etcetera. If Syrian rebels can do it, I'm sure something on the scale of the rebellion could have done.
That same nature imply that they need to move a lot inside that planet. Small cover ops can run on civilian transport for moving personnel and supplies but an active insurgency would need vehicles for hit and run attacks.
I love seeing all the footage from classic LucasArts games. There was a certain feel back when the lore had only the original three movies for inspiration.
I was really glad that Empire at War decided to make the T2-B and T4-B to go along with the earlier Force Commander's T1-B and T-3B by Yutrane-Trackata. But yeah, I never assumed these were commonplace vehicles
@Steve The Turret Not really. The Rebels did have supporters on various planets, including entire planetary governments. Most of the time, this support would be done under the nose of the Empire. It is also possible they were produced in space. Production of a tank is probably easier than production of a B-Wing, and the Rebels definitely produced those. They would have had their uses, but not regularly. So the Rebels wouldn't have made many of them.
#askeck did the New Republic fix this deficiency and if so, what vehicles did they use that differed from the Rebel Alliance? Lore ship Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Old lore, the New Republic had a very good military. A first rate fleet and a ground army that was on par with the Empire. New Disney lore... I question if they had blasters for their soldiers with how inept they were.
2:10 i just realized that the AT AT’s cannons in that shot from Return of the Jedi are upside down compared to the ones in Empire. Its kinda weird cuz i dont see any talk of it online but they’re pretty clearly upside down lol
My thought too. And by move around so often, meaning "get the heck off this planet! They found us!" So any vehicle they would want to use with regularity would need to be able to either leave a planet on its own, or would need to be small and light enough that they can just rush it into an escaping cargo ship. ...And also be able to DEPLOY it from a modified smuggler's ship or something in the event they had a need to launch a quick land attack to obtain something from, say, an underprotected imperial holding with important data in it or something.
It's pretty simple, the rebels have to be fast, both in the fight and on the strategic side, and big vehicles are not only exspesive, but making them fast is overly exspesive
While it is from an RTS, I think the T2-B light tank from Empire at War makes a lot of sense as a Rebel vehicle. It's a fast repulsorlift with decent protection from small arms fire thanks to a shield generator, and a fairly potent anti-infantry turret. A single one can devastate or suppress unprepared infantry, a pack of them can raid an area and cause lots of chaos, and they can run away from any Imperial vehicles that cause them problems. The T2-B is basically an IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), and it could be a powerful force multiplier for Rebel infantry or special forces on raids. I suppose the ideal way to set it up (and this might take resources the Rebellion didn't have) would be to have an integrated dropship that could deploy it (like the LAAT/c and the AT-TE), some space inside for a handful of troops and maybe a tacked-on rocket launcher or grenade launcher to give the thing a smidge of anti-vehicle capability (against like AT-STs). I think that would be a really good setup for raiding lightly-defended outposts. (Would the Aldahni garrison have anything to defend against that except the TIEs?)
Was always surprised the Alliance did not have some sort of "tank destroyer" type vehicle. Something light and mobile but with one extremely powerful anti-armor weapon
A lot of CIS super tanks were destroyed and were made to be droid-piloted for the most part. I doubt the rebels would want to invest a post-clone wars tank that was involved in a lot of losing battles from the CIS.
Or stolen Saber tanks considering their affinity for stealing decommissioned Imperial equipment. I mean the Imperials have to have a whole junkyards full of them.
I think the Awakening of the Rebellion Mod for Empire At War does the Rebel Army Justice. Most of their Vehicles are retro fitted Speeders or "shielded trucks" retrofitted into hover Combat Assault Vehicles.
I'm picturing the T4B heavy tank (and the MPTL for that matter) to be something that the New Republic bought at some point during the post-Endor period, and didn't have available in significant numbers until after the fall of the Reborn Emperor.
I think it can't be unstated how much any group conflicts of any scale were likely reliant local resistance groups/planetary armies. The primary fleets were highly focused on upkeeping mobile hit and run fighter squads or small scale highly skilled commando units for surgical strikes on critical Imperial locations.
I want to see the New Republic's army. What did they have that was original and not stolen? What was their ground version of the X-wing? What did they use to transport their troops and transports into battle? We know they have the U-wing which is their troop transport, but what else?
I really liked the rebel ground vehicles in Star Wars Force Commander, they felt mostly mobile enough to work with the alliance's doctrine (and I liked the design)
Just a thing about Audible. They pay the authors on their site like 40% of the book price. 25% if you're not exclusive to Audible. That's compared to something like 70% I think on other sites. They pay this low because I bet you very few people in general could name another side for audiobooks. They have a monopoly on the industry and that's just not good. Use other distributors for audiobooks, even if you can't find the books you really want on there because maybe if enough people stop using Audible they won't have a monopoly on it. Which is ofc good for us consumers.
What you don't see is the empire then using it's star destroyer to shell that artillery and your base because the rebels have less x wings then the empire has stardestroyers
The vehicles that the were used by the queen’s security in episode 1 would fit the bill of the rebels. Maybe a little upgrade here and there could make it work.
Alliance Navy: Near Peer of the Imperial Startleet Alliance Ground Forces: the Star Wars equivalent of a bunch of guys with AK’s and driving around in a Toyota pickup with a .50 cal mounted in the bed.
Also, as is being shown in Ukraine in the real world, the resource cost of anti-tank weapons is a lot lower than the resource cost of tanks. If you are mobile, harder to spot, and armed with weapons that can hurt heavy vehicles, then a stand-up slug-fest of tank vs. tank is actually a waste of resources, however tempting it might otherwise be. Think about the metal, fuel, and crew requirements of an AT-AT, and then remember that two relatively tiny snow-speeders with a total crew complement of four people were able to destroy one using smart tactics and superior mobility.
I'd imagine that while some members of the rebel alliance do have dedicated ground forces, usually the special forces and light infantry of the alliance is their focus. With air support and transportation being far more useful for their inter-planetary actions then any stuck to the ground heavy walkers which would require space superiority for the whole duration of their use. So airborne infantry over motorised or mechanised infantry like the Empire likes to use.
I mean look at rebel groups in the real world. Very very little ground vehicles. The few used are typically destroyed in the first battle they see combat in. In the star wars universe I think the only reason the rebellion even have a navy is because they can't hide on planets very long. They need to be constantly moving from place to place. At Dunkirk the first thing the British left behind were their vehicles and artillery. I'm sure most rebel vehicles get left behind in battles or get destroyed
I guess this is why it's Star Wars and not Ground Wars. But seriously though, we really need some stories about an Alliance tank crew in a shitty beat-up refurbished TX-130 going up against AT-ATs. Star Wars does "Fury" if you will.
It is a shame that we didn't see much of the rebel ground vehicles but I really love them. My most favorite vehicle was the armored freerunner beside the tanks such as T3-B and T4-B. Because it is really fast and outrun much of the Imperial vehicles like those walkers. I wish we had a chance to see them in some of the movies... The Alliance tank AAC-1 is also good with their multi purpose missiles just like in Battlefront 2 and Empire at War: Thrawn's Revenge mode.
I find that the new republic both cannon and legends have the same problem especially the new republic and later galactic federation where we don’t see any ground military vehicles or ones that are new and stranded across the board which I always find weird since the new republic was able to create and brand new navy and star fighter core
The company behind the heavy(And some of the light) rebel vehicles in Force Commander and EAW (The T1, T2, T3 and T4b) is actually a tragic story. And ties in with the old marvel comic with the fake Obi Wan. They were basically trying to help the slaves on that planet while pretending to be a loyal imperial arms manufacturer and also arming the Rebels under the table. BUt in the end the actual headquarters planet for the company was BDZed after endor as revenge for arming the enemy.
If there’s one thing I like about the Clone Wars, it’s that it has a balance of ground and space battles. To be fair to the Galactic Civil War, the Rebels could only fight conventional battles in space and only a few of them given their numbers and equipment. Still, it makes me feel bad for Twilight Company. Ground troops already run the risk of being ignored and forgotten in any war, especially with heroes overshadowing them. But it’s the navy that fight all the important battles and usually special commandos that do the important ground work. If anything, there isn’t even much point in having a Rebel Army, just having a special forces ground force seems like all the Rebels would need.
They still need grunts largely to hold back imperial forces to help protect facilities, and to grab stuff, a group of 15 commandos can hit an enemy train, a group of 100 soldiers can loot that train for all it's worth in 1/10 time, and since scavengers and people who worked with tools were large parts of the rebel army they'd outdo commandos when it comes to opening up crates quickly or even stripping what parts they can take, commandos have there purpose, and are more important for the rebels but without ground troops in the end your handicapping yourself, particularly when sometimes your critical forces need a distraction
@@calebbarnhouse496 True, the Twilight Company novel does show that it takes large units to board a starship or attack a massive Imperial facility, but I feel that at most, Rebel soldiers who weren’t commandos just always did guard duty for Rebel bases and ships, not that the Alliance could afford to make a stand if the Empire found such bases. In all honesty, a conventional army only seems useful to the Rebels after Endor, when they can actually start fighting conventional battles against the Empire. Maybe if there were more stories like Twilight Company, more stories set after the time when the Rebel Alliance was still a bunch of insurgent cells, they could show if the army was just as essential as the navy.
@Tristan Kawatsuma they can't afford to take a full stand, but they can't afford to just ditch everything either, you have to make a fighting retreat, like on hoth, if those rebel troopers weren't in the trenches then units could have punched through and started deploying troops inside the rebel base before they had even sent the second transport out into space, so even if 99% of the time all they did was guard duty and manual labor then that's way better then that 1% of the time where they aren't there and the base gets found out, all the data on there computers is taken and the empire causes an entire sector in space to run and hide with no comns with eachother for months from one attack
@@calebbarnhouse496 With all due respect to Twilight Company and other Rebel soldiers in that battle, it really seems like only Rogue Squadron bought Echo Base time. Yes, Rebel infantry were able to stop flanking attacks by AT-ST Walkers and Snowtroopers, but if the snowspeeders weren’t dealing with the AT-AT walkers, they could have easily torn up these smaller units with Rebel soldiers mopping up stragglers. I wonder now though what would have happened if the Empire didn’t send in those giant walkers? Could the Rebels make an actual stand if these ground vehicles didn’t exist? The defenses for Echo Base sure seemed made to handle light walkers and infantry. Look at the Battle of Atollon in Star Wars Rebels. It’s those giant walkers that turn the tide. Imagine if in the Battle of Sullust in the Twilight Company novel, the Empire had an AT-AT. Then again, the Rebels still almost lost that battle even against just stormtroopers and AT-ST’s. Not to mention the Rebel fleet would have to be dedicated to defending the Hoth System instead of attacking Imperial targets across the galaxy.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 on hoth they certainly did slow the attack, the ATAT were the win condition, however if you took out said defenses then a few ATSTs or even just the speeder bikes that ATAT carry with them could have taken down the shield generator, which then allows the empire to land shuttles at least a few hours earlier based on where I think the shield generator is in relation to the lath the ATAT had to take compared to the shield generator
it makes sense that the Rebel Alliance didn't rely on heavy tanks, preferring to focus on fast hit and run tactics. any rebel on a planet without a shield, that was in or near a heavy tank, with an Imperial Acclamator in orbit, would have a very bad day. just one shot from a Turbolaser at full power is the equivalent of two thousand thermonuclear bombs going off at the same time. the Empire was not squeamish about using a Base Delta Zero to wipe out medium to large ground formations.
Found the guy who actually believes some of the old book's ridiculous power output numbers. Nope. We have seen turbolasers fire on unshielded targets before. The level of power you describe has never been shown from them.
@@SephirothRyu the old books are best. all the new stuff i've seen is just fuel for a dumpster fire, made by people who just want to milk the franchise any way they can.
@@palpadur1112 I am very specifically referring to the power output values indicated in the old books. Not the stories. If turbolasers actually put that much out in a single full power turbolaser shot, a single Imperial class SD could glass an unshielded planet in less than a day.
@AppleSeed those 4 rocket launchers, and the 5 guys you needed for that sucide attack in the first place (which won't work because small arms fire took it our before it hit the ATAT) aren't easy to replace, nor is moral of using sucide attacks, there's a reason the rebels only used gobk droids for sucide bombings
T4-B's aren't from the games originally. One can be seen in the background, very briefly, in a cutscene on the rebel base on Yavin 4 (it was actually just a repurposed Abrams tank with stuff more or less glued on I believe). It's later referenced in a video game though, I think used by X2? I'm not a big gamer though. The T2-B is also referenced in the novelization. They had been used by various Republic planetary defense forces and were just leftovers from before the Galactic Civil War, but they weren't totally uncommon. However, transporting them was a huge problem because the Alliance didn't have many large vehicle transports until near the end of the war. Most ground transports were intended for infantry, which was more ideal.
Rebels would probably like the technical concept(a civilian vehicle with some armamen) and anti tank solutions like heavy guns or explosives for more of their hit and run tactics and because these options are cheaper than tanks
Now I understand that the Javelin missile didn't exist when the Original Trilogy was produced... but I think the basic idea would have served the Alliance well against AT-ATs. A commercial speeder adapted with concussion missile or proton torpedo launchers that have a top-down, or surface skimming, pop up into the belly attack profile. Those stupid behemoths, like real life heavy tanks, can't be heavily armored EVERYWHERE.
"Have you ever noticed that the Rebel Alliance didn't have much of a ground force?" Me, looking back on the early days of Star Wars EAW - T4Bs and MPTLs kill my whole ground force before it can disembark from the Assault Shuttles. Yeah I have noticed that. Why did Empire at War make their ground forces so forking strong?
The Alliance was specialized. They for majority of their war with the Empire didn't get or have anything as great or BETTER usually then the Empire an usually most such things like that was rare an NOT for common deployment. On some the books, some comics an games they ACTUALLY got quite a bit. An if they did their hit an run specialty would actually probably suffer. As would their nack for escapes even while simultaneously fighting basically so.e nasty battles at the same time. An their fleet was actually similar to their ground forces EXCEPT for their fighter Corp till Mon Cal Cruisers midway through to late stage an especially the star hawk battleships late war most of their fleet was no match for SDs except Nebulon Frigates but think they really had to force a strict one vs one with a regular Star Destroyer to pull it off if remember right. Basically the narration suggests according to even Eck's research the Rebels mostly had the equivalent of 1ST World fighters an fighter bombers decent to elite level pilots for them an mostly had average armor but MAINLY had the equivalent of pickup trucks with belt fed machine guns an lower end cannons for most their ground troops. Least midway to the end when they had the base an had won enough support while whittling down enough Imperial units that they could SERIOUSLY deploy a variety of BOTH ground an naval troops. Including some of both types that was a real headache for Imperials like Twilight Company shock Commandos with.or without random Force User survivor helping or Imperial Defectors that ALSO happened to be Elite Imperial before defecting alongside Starhawk cruisers an B-wings backed by even next gen X-wings at times..all of which the Empire shoulda NEVER allowed one way or another
Let's be honest, a lot of obvious weirdness in 'Star Wars' is because whoever the writers are have very little understanding of how militaries function. Or they're awed by visuals they want to emulate in situations where they make no sense. Look at how often we've seen AT-ATs being used in isolation. 'Empire Strikes Back' had more than just AT-ATs, it also had at least AT-STs escorting them, but because theyr'e only in a few background shots and aren't shown doing much, they get forgotten about. So... In other media, you have AT-ATs basically leading invasions, which is... Can a single At-AT take out a whole building? Yes. But that's raw firepower. Pretending they're much good for anything but a seige or long-range warfare over flat ground (which actually makes them a lot more vulnerable) is nonsensical. Apply that same logic to reality and you're basically saying a mdoern military force replace all tanks with HIMARS and 155 MM mobile artillery vehicles. After all, if those secure a hit on a tank, they could wipe one out, too, right? But that doesn't mean they're designed for anything but lobbing shells from way in the distance. If anything, the AT-ST is more practical. At least that has a turret which can swivel and a turning radius tighter than a small continent. Still has other flaws, though - and its firepower is apparently only enough to shoot through some tree bark. 'Star Wars' is filled with silliness like this. Like how everyone's led to think lightsabers are awesome and unstoppable weapons, but if the rebels began using them en masse, the Imperials would just start outfitting troops with a small hand-held remote control which turns off the saber's energy blade (by hacking or simply interfering with the power source or delivery system), instantly rendering them useless.
Should've brought up the promotional picture from Empire's early production, featuring unused props for a planned extended Rebel Base indoor fight. Hamill is pointing a big cheesy laser turret at the viewer, in the bed of a speeder pickup. Looks like something from 70's Battlestar Galactica.
Not sure if #askeck (or @AskEck) is still a thing, but do you think that the combination of Ion Cannons and Railguns could be ISD Killers, with their overexposed Bridges?
Aside from a couple of video games, we never really see much about aquatic vehicles. The main examples I can think of are the amphibions and waveskimmers from Rogue Squadron, and I can picture a few other examples from games I've never even played. I think there's a massively wasted opportunity to show aquatic battles. (I know there's the Mon Calamari arc from the Clone Wars, but that didn't give us much in the sense of submarines, speeders, boats, ships, or so on.) Especially in the films, and especially multi-layered air-to-sea battles, (like how the Battle of Scarif had the space battle, aerial dogfight, and the action on the ground all happening at once). I can picture some really interesting vehicles, weapons, tactics, and combat scenarios going on. Imagine a warship that on the surface looks a lot like actual navy destroyers, with a big flat landing strip from where it can deploy fighters, and "speeder-skis", but under the waves it's a totally different beast with a totally different set of weapons and weaknesses.
Using Tanks to destroy tanks isn't cost efficient, using Missile launchers, improvised methods Etc. is much better, especially when the Imperial walkers are so bad.
3:55 The Naboo speeder is probably the best representation of rebel ground vehicles. Quick land speeders with turrets attached. More of a guerilla-style attack plan rather than frontline combat.
Alternate Title: Why the Rebel Alliance rarely use Heavy Ground Vehicles The Rebels Had a Hovertank and a Treaded Tanks in Battlefront Renegade Squadron that did Defend Boz Pity and Mygeeto
I would imagine that while the Imperial Forces would have had standard vehicles. The Rebels would have had to make do with whatever donations, cast offs, leftover, could afford with their pitiful budgets equipment they could get making for a wide variety. Kind of like Ukraine does today.
I really do think you had it in the first minute. The rebels simply don't have the numbers for it. Ground vehicles in a galaxy where was is primarily fought in space/airborne battles, ground vehicles are pretty much just cheap, disposable cannon fodder. The rebels simply didn't have the troops to waste
Its ok, you can say that the rebel alliance used technicals. I figure that the closest representation we got in gaming was the X-34 in battlefront 4 (EA BF2).
A IRL issue that might also be an excuse for the rebels lack of ground vehicles is strategic mobility. The more equipment a unit has, the harder it tends to be to move on a strategic level. IRL this strategic level is loading them onto ships and aircraft, but that could easily be compared to moving them onto transports for interplanetary travel. You really need specialized equipment, doctrine, and training to rapidly load and/or deploy vehicles (IRL examples are the USMC MEUs loaded aboard specialized navy vessels). If you don’t have something like that you’d have to rely on whatever you had to move any kind of ground craft. Light infantry (that is a infantry force designed to operate with minimal vehicle support) is quite literally the easiest force to move over long distances as all you have to worry about is space for the troops and the gear they carry (which is limited by their physical strength). They are a “seats on a plane” force that can be shoved into any kind of transport and, as long as you have air assets to transport them, are great for the kind of hit and run warfare the rebels favor.
SW legion does a good job of showcasing how rebel land vehicles would be used. If you try and stand up to a ATST with an AA5 or Landspeeder you're gonna lose. Rebel mobility is what makes them so much fun and dropping off a truck full of wookies behind enemy lines will always be fun.
Non-standard Fighting Vehicle A Toyota they threw a gun on Worked so well they named the war after it And companies would give them discounts because nothing says reliability like: "Tough enough to fight an at-st, designed to carry your younglings"
How to equip your rebel force with vehicles. 1. Rebel troops infiltrate planet along with some heavy weapons and credits. 2. Head directly for the nearest bargain speeder dealership. 3. A-team montage.
they were also hmmm .......rebels i know crazy how a organization without a fully established government trying to fight the opposing government would have shit assault vehicles and had to improvised. I kid tho but nice vid eck
Some of the older material made a point of how mediocre to poor a lot of rebel equipment was, even hinting, perhaps jokingly, the the Empire knew the rebels had the thing but let them get them and more because they were more of a problem to the rebels than the Empire. Examples would be the radar blaster thing on Hoth and the pill-shaped craft taking off behind Luke on Hoth. According to old material, the blaster was finicky, not very strong, and kept techs busy. The ship was also difficult to keep running as was a logistical burden, but the rebels needed ships. The rebels also had other fighter types, usually less capable and troublesome than the X-wing, but they could be had in greater numbers. One other thing of note: conventional wheeled and tracked vehicles were still common, especially away from the core. At least one sourcebook stated that rebels would often build light factories and farming colonies on out of the way planets. There they would use conventional vehicles almost exclsively, as well as draft animals. This was because repulsorlift devices produced a signature that could be detected from a distance in space by the right equipment, like that on Imperial scout ships. Due to the number of planets, scout ships might just drop into a system and make a quick scan and if there wasn't much activity, leave again. Repulsor signature was sure to draw their interest.
I love Rebel ground vehicles because of their looks, but damn they were terrible. Even in the video games it was hard to truly balance them to be effective. Unless you’re talking about Galactic Battlegrounds, where Imperial and Rebel vehicles were just different looking pieces on what was basically a chess board.
The Empires biggest Problem was that they had to defend a whole galaxy, thus spreading their Military, while the rebels could always move, but the empire still focused their forces on big enemie Organisations like if there were other gouvernements with a big Military. Maybe, but just maybe, that could have had sth to do with palpies knowledge of the yuuzhan vong.
What's the point of ground vehicles when they are always moving in space? Like it be a waste if the Rebels built ground vehicles and established a factory only for them to up and leave immediately. Plus, I think the Rebels had a smarter tactic regarding prioritizing space combat than ground combat. Hit the Imperial fleets in space! Unless the Empire builds teleporters, it'll take longer to deliver reinforcements if at all.
Heavy vehicles are, generally speaking, for taking territory and pitched battles. You use them when you intend on owning the ground when the battle is over. The Alliance had little use for taking actual ground by force. They could never hold onto it for long even if they did take it. Far better to have easily transported light equipment for hit and fade attacks. Also there is the psychological side to consider, a hit and run with some fast speeders with laser cannons strapped to them, well that's Rebels being rebels. They probably aren't even on the planet anymore. Some Rebels roll up to you garrison with some heavy tanks? That's a civilian population about to experience the worst the Empire can muster.
But how do these stationary defenses seen on Hoth fit into the mobile doctrine? Like those gun turrets, that gun that looks like a radar dish (to lazy to look up their names). These would be al lot more flexible if put on a repulsorlift or tracked vehicle allowing mobile tactics such as flanking the enemy, avoiding most fire from AT-AT as their weapons are forward mounted and they take time to turn, then trying to hit the weaker areas. Walkers would possible be to slow for the rebels. Although something like AT-RT would fit perfectly. Also with vehicles you have the possibility of driving them onto transport star ships and evacuate them if given the time. Stationary defenses will always be lost if you have to evacuate unless you have a lot of time.
rember that most of this is legends. I do not think there is a Rebel ground vehicle in Canon. Thus Unlike the Templin Institute, Cara Dune was right to be wary of AT-ST's
You know, why did the Rebels even have planetary bases? Maybe somewhere to hide and refuel their small ships and fighters, but having a mobile fleet was much more effective at evasion. Planetside, they could've dispersed amongst a population centre with light assets. Any thought of a pitched battle on the ground was as like Hoth. And positioning heavy assets like turbo lasers and ion cannons were already expected to be lost in an assault. If you could have a planetary shield, why not set it up to protect civilian allies or as extra shielding around the weaker ships of the fleet? (not sure on the limitations of the planetary shield) I think they should've built a sort of skeletal mobile station for a number of ships to dock with and be protected under. Keep it at a point with many escape routes. If the Empire were to find it, jump it out with the fleet, or break it up and scatter.
I just now thought about, and I’m definitely not the first person to think of this, but the AT-ATs could have just stopped walking instead of getting toppled over lol
Visit www.audible.com/eckhartsladder or text eckhartsladder to 500-500
The alliance should have used things like technicals. Imagine a typical hover car in Star Wars. They're very common. But if they could strap a blaster to the front of it or the back, they could be extremely swift. I think it was wasted that they didn't use those types of technicals. If you don't know what that is, it's a civilian car, usually with. Metal strapped on for armor or welding on a gun, just usually. Easy to find stuff. That the rubble lines could easily get on any world with a population. Parts would be available to. And it could probably be left behind if need be.
also a heavy blaster can take out a ATATs leg and the empire rarely gave them ground support imaginwhat a fast hover car with a heavy blaster could do to a slow ATAT or ATST they are very slow to turn
The Rebels need more tanks. They never used any kind of tank in any kind of Star Wars film so far.
B2 tank ,B4 tank and MPTL artillery !! What the hell are you talking bout boy ? Rebels HAD vehicles but scarce
Would you make a video on the Galactic Empire’s “Dungeon Ships”
If only Toyota existed in SW then the rebels would have a land vehicle for every occasion.
You get a Hilux, you get a Hilux, everyone gets a Hilux!
I think we have a late entry for the comment of the year awards here.
th-cam.com/video/ruhEUE6_JbQ/w-d-xo.html
Honestly a whole bunch of groundspeeders in SW basically are just technicals. Like the ones the Naboo used to retake Theed from the Trade Federation.
Lol the terrorists toyota. Lol
I like to think that the T4B and equivalents were often bought for a single important raid, and rigged to explode when abandoned to do more damage to imperial holdings after the crew evacuates, is captured or killed. But only on the big important stuff, ground equivalents of what they'd task an MC80 to in space for example.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 Realistically even a T4B wouldn't be able to take a walker or some cases heavy Repulser tanks.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 yeah it's a common debate and the Literal heavy armor and Turbor lasers of the walkers where purpose built for a massive ground war like that, even the Humbles AT ST has variant with Anti Armor rocket pods.
@@obi0914 so your saying walkers are better than tanks! No way, sorry but no.
@@Commander23c screw those ugly ass walkers, terrible use of armored forces. Just nuke them and they are done.
@@joey8062 Power, durability, and effectiveness easily go to walkers like the AT-AT. However, mobility, practicality, and efficiency are points that go to hovertanks like the S-1 Firehawke, and the Imperial-1 series of tanks. There isn't any tank, save maybe the equally impractical XR-85 or Protodeka, that can stand up to an AT-AT 1 vs 1.
I’m surprised they never just had starwars versions of Technicals
And then they decided to to attempt a large scale conventional military offensive without armored support.
The rebels didn't have large transport ships and drop ships like the Republic and Separatists and could only get their hands on whatever is available so its no surprise that there weren't any large ground scale battles like the ones in clone wars.
Also because the empire had way more troops in general, and more advanced vehicles. The rebels were way better off sticking with the hit-and-run tactics
Plus all the other factions and the empire had funding through the galactic banks, corporations, or planets capable of large contributions.
The rebels had none of that leading to such a large deficiency in capabilities.
Yeah realistically I'd love to see more rebel ground vehicles that are like Toyota Hilux and similar technicals.
Toyota Hilux converted into a battle speeder would be amazing
That's kinda what the snowspeeder is right.
Fr imagine the blocky corelian speeders seen in SOLO kitted out with heavy blasters and missiles
So like scrappy versions of the Naboo landspeeders with the rear mounted blaster cannons?
I suprised the never use old separatist tanks(like the AAT), there must have been millions left over after the clone wars or the pirate tank model that Hondo and his gang had.
Were probably droid specific, and the seppys were ground into dust by the Empire much more so than the GAR
In the Batch Bad trailer Trandoshans are using AATs.
@Enclave here, why isn't your video feed working? organics crewed it at least once in the clones, being in the arc where the republic funds terrorism, however even if they couldn't then they could modify them, the real reason is they don't really need tanks, you can't hit and run with a tank very well
Yeah the AAT, STAP, and certain versions of their shuttles were really the only things organic beings could use. A gutted MTT would work as well. Pretty much anything CIS not originally used by the Trade Federation were just larger specialized droids.
@HBTDawgz16 not entirely true, the STAP wasn't actually able to be piloted by a human, we do see jedi jump on them for a second time to time, but in lore there engines get so hot that an organic pilot can't withstand the heat, but it could be modfied to work, probably
I can't help but love the rebel vehicles, I'm sorry. They just looked so cool when I was a kid! Plus using their tank in Battlefront 2 Classic was fun!
@@joshleake2520 I've only ever played on Xbox and PC so I didn't see those :( They sound cool, though!
Ditto
I preferred the empire tanks but if you had fun with them, I won't judge
@@Paul_Bedford I will judge; ""Bunch of rebel scum with their primitive tech""
I'm suddenly having a crisis that I can't at all remember what those vehicles were, and I played the hell out of that game.
I feel like the rebels would be capable of using ground vehicles more if they simply had drop ships they could use to transport them. Think something like an LAAT/C they could use to drop something off, then pick it up and go after it does it’s job.
Well we've seen the U wing get added so who news?
Maybe the Q-wing will become a respectable ground transport rather than a joke
This is what Force Commander got right. The Attack Tank was the rebel heavy tank - but really it was a turbolaser with treads and more importantly a homing missile launcher. They barely won a head to head with an AT-ST but using your support assets you could use the missile launcher and Y-Wings to weaken the Imperial forces enough to be able to hit hard and fast and win the day.
@@hosmerhomeboy the controls are clunky but it was a fantastic idea. Music was also magnificent according to my then 11 year old brain that still has its hands on the nostalgia swith
The Rebels had some really cool "organic" or "sentient being" mounts and battle beasts. Perhaps an overview is warranted.
Yes, they went down the cavalry route, which makes a lot of sense. Very cheap, needs minimal supplies, able to handle rougher terrain and potentially can be used as a source of food, heat and for other survival needs.
Ya know, after Endor I think the Rebels would probably get more and heavier ground vehicles because by that point the Empire is on the backfoot and have lost their leadership so it makes a bit of sense to me that Late War the Rebels could afford to have tanks and whatnot become more common.
they would very likely have more available to them after Endor, but I‘m not sure that their willingness to actually utilize them would have risen as well
the Imperial Armored Korps was still formidable at that time and using close air support (aka star fighters and bombers) was probably a lot likelier
With the sheer amount of imperial bases they had raided, there is no reason why they wouldn't use any and all vehicles they conquered from them
Part of the issue is that the rebels by their nature need to move around a lot. As in, leave the planet. So something that cannot leave the planet on its own, and is too big/heavy to quickly load onto an escaping ship (and thus also difficult to deploy with a relatively small and fast ship in cases where they launch a ground attack on an imperial holding due to actually needing to get people inside it for some reason) does not mesh with them.
Why? It's no different to moving a lot of their other equipment - or things like grounded X-Wings, snowspeeders, etcetera.
If Syrian rebels can do it, I'm sure something on the scale of the rebellion could have done.
That same nature imply that they need to move a lot inside that planet. Small cover ops can run on civilian transport for moving personnel and supplies but an active insurgency would need vehicles for hit and run attacks.
I love seeing all the footage from classic LucasArts games. There was a certain feel back when the lore had only the original three movies for inspiration.
I was really glad that Empire at War decided to make the T2-B and T4-B to go along with the earlier Force Commander's T1-B and T-3B by Yutrane-Trackata. But yeah, I never assumed these were commonplace vehicles
@Steve The Turret Not really. The Rebels did have supporters on various planets, including entire planetary governments. Most of the time, this support would be done under the nose of the Empire. It is also possible they were produced in space. Production of a tank is probably easier than production of a B-Wing, and the Rebels definitely produced those. They would have had their uses, but not regularly. So the Rebels wouldn't have made many of them.
#askeck did the New Republic fix this deficiency and if so, what vehicles did they use that differed from the Rebel Alliance?
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Old lore, the New Republic had a very good military. A first rate fleet and a ground army that was on par with the Empire. New Disney lore... I question if they had blasters for their soldiers with how inept they were.
@@Fordo007 Actually NRA soldiers do receive blasters, although many are old guns except for EL-16HFE.
Defender wins
Happy New Year Eck!
I look forward to more quality content in 2023!
2:10 i just realized that the AT AT’s cannons in that shot from Return of the Jedi are upside down compared to the ones in Empire. Its kinda weird cuz i dont see any talk of it online but they’re pretty clearly upside down lol
The deathstar II also fires a superlaser shot upside-down. No one talks about that either. Return of the Jedi is filled with weird moments.
@@QuantumNova honestly i think those kinda things give the movie a kinda charm
Battlefront 2 2017 gave the rebels Luke's landspeeder with a gun on it.
Amazing.
The hilux of Star Wars?
Wasn’t it because they had to move around so often?
My thought too. And by move around so often, meaning "get the heck off this planet! They found us!" So any vehicle they would want to use with regularity would need to be able to either leave a planet on its own, or would need to be small and light enough that they can just rush it into an escaping cargo ship. ...And also be able to DEPLOY it from a modified smuggler's ship or something in the event they had a need to launch a quick land attack to obtain something from, say, an underprotected imperial holding with important data in it or something.
It's pretty simple, the rebels have to be fast, both in the fight and on the strategic side, and big vehicles are not only exspesive, but making them fast is overly exspesive
That's what transportation ships would exist for.
While it is from an RTS, I think the T2-B light tank from Empire at War makes a lot of sense as a Rebel vehicle. It's a fast repulsorlift with decent protection from small arms fire thanks to a shield generator, and a fairly potent anti-infantry turret. A single one can devastate or suppress unprepared infantry, a pack of them can raid an area and cause lots of chaos, and they can run away from any Imperial vehicles that cause them problems.
The T2-B is basically an IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), and it could be a powerful force multiplier for Rebel infantry or special forces on raids. I suppose the ideal way to set it up (and this might take resources the Rebellion didn't have) would be to have an integrated dropship that could deploy it (like the LAAT/c and the AT-TE), some space inside for a handful of troops and maybe a tacked-on rocket launcher or grenade launcher to give the thing a smidge of anti-vehicle capability (against like AT-STs). I think that would be a really good setup for raiding lightly-defended outposts. (Would the Aldahni garrison have anything to defend against that except the TIEs?)
Was always surprised the Alliance did not have some sort of "tank destroyer" type vehicle. Something light and mobile but with one extremely powerful anti-armor weapon
The rebel rebel attack tank from swgb i feel like would be kind of effective against imperial at-ats
Imagine how much more the Alliance would have accomplished in ground battles against AT-ATs if they got their hands on the CIS's Super Tanks
A lot of CIS super tanks were destroyed and were made to be droid-piloted for the most part. I doubt the rebels would want to invest a post-clone wars tank that was involved in a lot of losing battles from the CIS.
Or stolen Saber tanks considering their affinity for stealing decommissioned Imperial equipment. I mean the Imperials have to have a whole junkyards full of them.
I think the Awakening of the Rebellion Mod for Empire At War does the Rebel Army Justice. Most of their Vehicles are retro fitted Speeders or "shielded trucks" retrofitted into hover Combat Assault Vehicles.
No wonder they lost ground battles like Hoth
They would have lost completely had a certain admiral decided to exit hyperspace far away from the system.
@@StuartLugsden indeed
I'm picturing the T4B heavy tank (and the MPTL for that matter) to be something that the New Republic bought at some point during the post-Endor period, and didn't have available in significant numbers until after the fall of the Reborn Emperor.
Rebels were wack with vehicles
I think it can't be unstated how much any group conflicts of any scale were likely reliant local resistance groups/planetary armies. The primary fleets were highly focused on upkeeping mobile hit and run fighter squads or small scale highly skilled commando units for surgical strikes on critical Imperial locations.
I want to see the New Republic's army. What did they have that was original and not stolen? What was their ground version of the X-wing? What did they use to transport their troops and transports into battle? We know they have the U-wing which is their troop transport, but what else?
I really liked the rebel ground vehicles in Star Wars Force Commander, they felt mostly mobile enough to work with the alliance's doctrine (and I liked the design)
Just a thing about Audible. They pay the authors on their site like 40% of the book price. 25% if you're not exclusive to Audible. That's compared to something like 70% I think on other sites. They pay this low because I bet you very few people in general could name another side for audiobooks. They have a monopoly on the industry and that's just not good. Use other distributors for audiobooks, even if you can't find the books you really want on there because maybe if enough people stop using Audible they won't have a monopoly on it. Which is ofc good for us consumers.
I do wish they showed the Alliances Armored division. I mean for gosh sake they had AT-TE Clone Juggernauts, heck even the UT-AT.
Mys days playing EAW and seeing hundreds of Stormtroopers wiped out by their MPTL artillery would say otherwise.
What you don't see is the empire then using it's star destroyer to shell that artillery and your base because the rebels have less x wings then the empire has stardestroyers
The vehicles that the were used by the queen’s security in episode 1 would fit the bill of the rebels. Maybe a little upgrade here and there could make it work.
I liked how battlefront 2 and that clash of clans game had rebels using AT-RTs that just makes sense
Alliance Navy: Near Peer of the Imperial Startleet
Alliance Ground Forces: the Star Wars equivalent of a bunch of guys with AK’s and driving around in a Toyota pickup with a .50 cal mounted in the bed.
“It’s a Star War, yeah what’s up with that bro?”
Why wasn't these legend vehicles introduce in SW-BF
Also, as is being shown in Ukraine in the real world, the resource cost of anti-tank weapons is a lot lower than the resource cost of tanks. If you are mobile, harder to spot, and armed with weapons that can hurt heavy vehicles, then a stand-up slug-fest of tank vs. tank is actually a waste of resources, however tempting it might otherwise be.
Think about the metal, fuel, and crew requirements of an AT-AT, and then remember that two relatively tiny snow-speeders with a total crew complement of four people were able to destroy one using smart tactics and superior mobility.
Hi!! What you think about "The Flood (Halo) Vs Control (Star Trek Discovery) video? Is It possible?
I'd imagine that while some members of the rebel alliance do have dedicated ground forces, usually the special forces and light infantry of the alliance is their focus.
With air support and transportation being far more useful for their inter-planetary actions then any stuck to the ground heavy walkers which would require space superiority for the whole duration of their use.
So airborne infantry over motorised or mechanised infantry like the Empire likes to use.
Light vehicles like thier equivalent of a pick up, with a mounted heavy weapon would work. Use speed, and agility to fight.
Nice Click bate red arrow.
I thought this channal was about quality content that spoke for it self and did not use click bate tactics.
Disappointing..
I mean look at rebel groups in the real world. Very very little ground vehicles. The few used are typically destroyed in the first battle they see combat in. In the star wars universe I think the only reason the rebellion even have a navy is because they can't hide on planets very long. They need to be constantly moving from place to place. At Dunkirk the first thing the British left behind were their vehicles and artillery. I'm sure most rebel vehicles get left behind in battles or get destroyed
Basically they focus on hit and run tactics.... Heavy ground vehicles would not fit this idea.
Sun tsu art of war 101
I guess this is why it's Star Wars and not Ground Wars.
But seriously though, we really need some stories about an Alliance tank crew in a shitty beat-up refurbished TX-130 going up against AT-ATs. Star Wars does "Fury" if you will.
It is a shame that we didn't see much of the rebel ground vehicles but I really love them. My most favorite vehicle was the armored freerunner beside the tanks such as T3-B and T4-B. Because it is really fast and outrun much of the Imperial vehicles like those walkers. I wish we had a chance to see them in some of the movies... The Alliance tank AAC-1 is also good with their multi purpose missiles just like in Battlefront 2 and Empire at War: Thrawn's Revenge mode.
I would love to see Awakening of the Rebellion Ground Vehicles in Cannon!
Heavy tank: 😒
Literally just a hoverlift with a gun slapped on: 🤑
Rebel Scout Speeder should be cannon 😂 I want to see it in a TV show with a competent rebel ground battle
I find that the new republic both cannon and legends have the same problem especially the new republic and later galactic federation where we don’t see any ground military vehicles or ones that are new and stranded across the board which I always find weird since the new republic was able to create and brand new navy and star fighter core
Look who's done complaining and putting up more not recycled content
The company behind the heavy(And some of the light) rebel vehicles in Force Commander and EAW (The T1, T2, T3 and T4b) is actually a tragic story. And ties in with the old marvel comic with the fake Obi Wan. They were basically trying to help the slaves on that planet while pretending to be a loyal imperial arms manufacturer and also arming the Rebels under the table. BUt in the end the actual headquarters planet for the company was BDZed after endor as revenge for arming the enemy.
The Waffle House Has Found Its New Host
The waffle house has found it’s new host
Sorry disliking. Not a very long or good video.
Honestly the Freerunner, AAC, and a few others are really good.
what about all them mini rigs??
If there’s one thing I like about the Clone Wars, it’s that it has a balance of ground and space battles. To be fair to the Galactic Civil War, the Rebels could only fight conventional battles in space and only a few of them given their numbers and equipment. Still, it makes me feel bad for Twilight Company. Ground troops already run the risk of being ignored and forgotten in any war, especially with heroes overshadowing them. But it’s the navy that fight all the important battles and usually special commandos that do the important ground work. If anything, there isn’t even much point in having a Rebel Army, just having a special forces ground force seems like all the Rebels would need.
They still need grunts largely to hold back imperial forces to help protect facilities, and to grab stuff, a group of 15 commandos can hit an enemy train, a group of 100 soldiers can loot that train for all it's worth in 1/10 time, and since scavengers and people who worked with tools were large parts of the rebel army they'd outdo commandos when it comes to opening up crates quickly or even stripping what parts they can take, commandos have there purpose, and are more important for the rebels but without ground troops in the end your handicapping yourself, particularly when sometimes your critical forces need a distraction
@@calebbarnhouse496 True, the Twilight Company novel does show that it takes large units to board a starship or attack a massive Imperial facility, but I feel that at most, Rebel soldiers who weren’t commandos just always did guard duty for Rebel bases and ships, not that the Alliance could afford to make a stand if the Empire found such bases. In all honesty, a conventional army only seems useful to the Rebels after Endor, when they can actually start fighting conventional battles against the Empire. Maybe if there were more stories like Twilight Company, more stories set after the time when the Rebel Alliance was still a bunch of insurgent cells, they could show if the army was just as essential as the navy.
@Tristan Kawatsuma they can't afford to take a full stand, but they can't afford to just ditch everything either, you have to make a fighting retreat, like on hoth, if those rebel troopers weren't in the trenches then units could have punched through and started deploying troops inside the rebel base before they had even sent the second transport out into space, so even if 99% of the time all they did was guard duty and manual labor then that's way better then that 1% of the time where they aren't there and the base gets found out, all the data on there computers is taken and the empire causes an entire sector in space to run and hide with no comns with eachother for months from one attack
@@calebbarnhouse496 With all due respect to Twilight Company and other Rebel soldiers in that battle, it really seems like only Rogue Squadron bought Echo Base time. Yes, Rebel infantry were able to stop flanking attacks by AT-ST Walkers and Snowtroopers, but if the snowspeeders weren’t dealing with the AT-AT walkers, they could have easily torn up these smaller units with Rebel soldiers mopping up stragglers.
I wonder now though what would have happened if the Empire didn’t send in those giant walkers? Could the Rebels make an actual stand if these ground vehicles didn’t exist? The defenses for Echo Base sure seemed made to handle light walkers and infantry. Look at the Battle of Atollon in Star Wars Rebels. It’s those giant walkers that turn the tide. Imagine if in the Battle of Sullust in the Twilight Company novel, the Empire had an AT-AT. Then again, the Rebels still almost lost that battle even against just stormtroopers and AT-ST’s. Not to mention the Rebel fleet would have to be dedicated to defending the Hoth System instead of attacking Imperial targets across the galaxy.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 on hoth they certainly did slow the attack, the ATAT were the win condition, however if you took out said defenses then a few ATSTs or even just the speeder bikes that ATAT carry with them could have taken down the shield generator, which then allows the empire to land shuttles at least a few hours earlier based on where I think the shield generator is in relation to the lath the ATAT had to take compared to the shield generator
it makes sense that the Rebel Alliance didn't rely on heavy tanks, preferring to focus on fast hit and run tactics. any rebel on a planet without a shield, that was in or near a heavy tank, with an Imperial Acclamator in orbit, would have a very bad day. just one shot from a Turbolaser at full power is the equivalent of two thousand thermonuclear bombs going off at the same time. the Empire was not squeamish about using a Base Delta Zero to wipe out medium to large ground formations.
Found the guy who actually believes some of the old book's ridiculous power output numbers. Nope.
We have seen turbolasers fire on unshielded targets before. The level of power you describe has never been shown from them.
@@SephirothRyu the old books are best. all the new stuff i've seen is just fuel for a dumpster fire, made by people who just want to milk the franchise any way they can.
@@palpadur1112 I am very specifically referring to the power output values indicated in the old books. Not the stories.
If turbolasers actually put that much out in a single full power turbolaser shot, a single Imperial class SD could glass an unshielded planet in less than a day.
Well they ARE the rebels.
I love the t1b and the t3b. And i think they are realy good portraid in awakening of the Rebellion
If you get a dozen rebels with rocket launchers on the back of a speeder, no AT-AT would be able to stop them.
Until that speeder gets hit any attack at all
The Problem is the Rockets make no Damage against the At-At. The best example is Rouge one no Damage and this was a At-Act not a full Armord At-At
@calebbarnhouse496 a five thousand credit speeder is essy to replace.
@k.s.7045 One rocket won't do much, but a dozen will.
@AppleSeed those 4 rocket launchers, and the 5 guys you needed for that sucide attack in the first place (which won't work because small arms fire took it our before it hit the ATAT) aren't easy to replace, nor is moral of using sucide attacks, there's a reason the rebels only used gobk droids for sucide bombings
T4-B's aren't from the games originally. One can be seen in the background, very briefly, in a cutscene on the rebel base on Yavin 4 (it was actually just a repurposed Abrams tank with stuff more or less glued on I believe). It's later referenced in a video game though, I think used by X2? I'm not a big gamer though. The T2-B is also referenced in the novelization. They had been used by various Republic planetary defense forces and were just leftovers from before the Galactic Civil War, but they weren't totally uncommon. However, transporting them was a huge problem because the Alliance didn't have many large vehicle transports until near the end of the war. Most ground transports were intended for infantry, which was more ideal.
Rebels would probably like the technical concept(a civilian vehicle with some armamen) and anti tank solutions like heavy guns or explosives for more of their hit and run tactics and because these options are cheaper than tanks
Now I understand that the Javelin missile didn't exist when the Original Trilogy was produced... but I think the basic idea would have served the Alliance well against AT-ATs. A commercial speeder adapted with concussion missile or proton torpedo launchers that have a top-down, or surface skimming, pop up into the belly attack profile. Those stupid behemoths, like real life heavy tanks, can't be heavily armored EVERYWHERE.
"Have you ever noticed that the Rebel Alliance didn't have much of a ground force?" Me, looking back on the early days of Star Wars EAW - T4Bs and MPTLs kill my whole ground force before it can disembark from the Assault Shuttles.
Yeah I have noticed that. Why did Empire at War make their ground forces so forking strong?
The Alliance was specialized. They for majority of their war with the Empire didn't get or have anything as great or BETTER usually then the Empire an usually most such things like that was rare an NOT for common deployment. On some the books, some comics an games they ACTUALLY got quite a bit. An if they did their hit an run specialty would actually probably suffer. As would their nack for escapes even while simultaneously fighting basically so.e nasty battles at the same time. An their fleet was actually similar to their ground forces EXCEPT for their fighter Corp till Mon Cal Cruisers midway through to late stage an especially the star hawk battleships late war most of their fleet was no match for SDs except Nebulon Frigates but think they really had to force a strict one vs one with a regular Star Destroyer to pull it off if remember right. Basically the narration suggests according to even Eck's research the Rebels mostly had the equivalent of 1ST World fighters an fighter bombers decent to elite level pilots for them an mostly had average armor but MAINLY had the equivalent of pickup trucks with belt fed machine guns an lower end cannons for most their ground troops. Least midway to the end when they had the base an had won enough support while whittling down enough Imperial units that they could SERIOUSLY deploy a variety of BOTH ground an naval troops. Including some of both types that was a real headache for Imperials like Twilight Company shock Commandos with.or without random Force User survivor helping or Imperial Defectors that ALSO happened to be Elite Imperial before defecting alongside Starhawk cruisers an B-wings backed by even next gen X-wings at times..all of which the Empire shoulda NEVER allowed one way or another
Let's be honest, a lot of obvious weirdness in 'Star Wars' is because whoever the writers are have very little understanding of how militaries function. Or they're awed by visuals they want to emulate in situations where they make no sense.
Look at how often we've seen AT-ATs being used in isolation. 'Empire Strikes Back' had more than just AT-ATs, it also had at least AT-STs escorting them, but because theyr'e only in a few background shots and aren't shown doing much, they get forgotten about. So... In other media, you have AT-ATs basically leading invasions, which is...
Can a single At-AT take out a whole building? Yes. But that's raw firepower. Pretending they're much good for anything but a seige or long-range warfare over flat ground (which actually makes them a lot more vulnerable) is nonsensical. Apply that same logic to reality and you're basically saying a mdoern military force replace all tanks with HIMARS and 155 MM mobile artillery vehicles. After all, if those secure a hit on a tank, they could wipe one out, too, right? But that doesn't mean they're designed for anything but lobbing shells from way in the distance.
If anything, the AT-ST is more practical. At least that has a turret which can swivel and a turning radius tighter than a small continent. Still has other flaws, though - and its firepower is apparently only enough to shoot through some tree bark.
'Star Wars' is filled with silliness like this. Like how everyone's led to think lightsabers are awesome and unstoppable weapons, but if the rebels began using them en masse, the Imperials would just start outfitting troops with a small hand-held remote control which turns off the saber's energy blade (by hacking or simply interfering with the power source or delivery system), instantly rendering them useless.
Back in the day, if it hadn't been for my G.I. Joe toys my Rebel Alliance figures would not have had a chance against Imperial ground forces......
Should've brought up the promotional picture from Empire's early production, featuring unused props for a planned extended Rebel Base indoor fight. Hamill is pointing a big cheesy laser turret at the viewer, in the bed of a speeder pickup. Looks like something from 70's Battlestar Galactica.
Not sure if #askeck (or @AskEck) is still a thing, but do you think that the combination of Ion Cannons and Railguns could be ISD Killers, with their overexposed Bridges?
Aside from a couple of video games, we never really see much about aquatic vehicles.
The main examples I can think of are the amphibions and waveskimmers from Rogue Squadron, and I can picture a few other examples from games I've never even played.
I think there's a massively wasted opportunity to show aquatic battles. (I know there's the Mon Calamari arc from the Clone Wars, but that didn't give us much in the sense of submarines, speeders, boats, ships, or so on.) Especially in the films, and especially multi-layered air-to-sea battles, (like how the Battle of Scarif had the space battle, aerial dogfight, and the action on the ground all happening at once).
I can picture some really interesting vehicles, weapons, tactics, and combat scenarios going on.
Imagine a warship that on the surface looks a lot like actual navy destroyers, with a big flat landing strip from where it can deploy fighters, and "speeder-skis", but under the waves it's a totally different beast with a totally different set of weapons and weaknesses.
Hey Eck...why did the Rebels use snowspeeders against AT-ATs instead of the X-Wings...we saw they were much better in combat during Rogue One
They need something that can carry a ton of firepower but live of the land. THEY NEED WAR ELEPHANTS 😜
Using Tanks to destroy tanks isn't cost efficient, using Missile launchers, improvised methods Etc. is much better, especially when the Imperial walkers are so bad.
3:55 The Naboo speeder is probably the best representation of rebel ground vehicles. Quick land speeders with turrets attached. More of a guerilla-style attack plan rather than frontline combat.
Alternate Title: Why the Rebel Alliance rarely use Heavy Ground Vehicles
The Rebels Had a Hovertank and a Treaded Tanks in Battlefront Renegade Squadron that did Defend Boz Pity and Mygeeto
I would imagine that while the Imperial Forces would have had standard vehicles. The Rebels would have had to make do with whatever donations, cast offs, leftover, could afford with their pitiful budgets equipment they could get making for a wide variety. Kind of like Ukraine does today.
I really do think you had it in the first minute. The rebels simply don't have the numbers for it. Ground vehicles in a galaxy where was is primarily fought in space/airborne battles, ground vehicles are pretty much just cheap, disposable cannon fodder. The rebels simply didn't have the troops to waste
Its ok, you can say that the rebel alliance used technicals. I figure that the closest representation we got in gaming was the X-34 in battlefront 4 (EA BF2).
A IRL issue that might also be an excuse for the rebels lack of ground vehicles is strategic mobility. The more equipment a unit has, the harder it tends to be to move on a strategic level. IRL this strategic level is loading them onto ships and aircraft, but that could easily be compared to moving them onto transports for interplanetary travel.
You really need specialized equipment, doctrine, and training to rapidly load and/or deploy vehicles (IRL examples are the USMC MEUs loaded aboard specialized navy vessels). If you don’t have something like that you’d have to rely on whatever you had to move any kind of ground craft.
Light infantry (that is a infantry force designed to operate with minimal vehicle support) is quite literally the easiest force to move over long distances as all you have to worry about is space for the troops and the gear they carry (which is limited by their physical strength). They are a “seats on a plane” force that can be shoved into any kind of transport and, as long as you have air assets to transport them, are great for the kind of hit and run warfare the rebels favor.
SW legion does a good job of showcasing how rebel land vehicles would be used. If you try and stand up to a ATST with an AA5 or Landspeeder you're gonna lose. Rebel mobility is what makes them so much fun and dropping off a truck full of wookies behind enemy lines will always be fun.
Non-standard Fighting Vehicle
A Toyota they threw a gun on
Worked so well they named the war after it
And companies would give them discounts because nothing says reliability like:
"Tough enough to fight an at-st, designed to carry your younglings"
How to equip your rebel force with vehicles. 1. Rebel troops infiltrate planet along with some heavy weapons and credits. 2. Head directly for the nearest bargain speeder dealership. 3. A-team montage.
they were also hmmm .......rebels i know crazy how a organization without a fully established government trying to fight the opposing government would have shit assault vehicles and had to improvised. I kid tho but nice vid eck
Some of the older material made a point of how mediocre to poor a lot of rebel equipment was, even hinting, perhaps jokingly, the the Empire knew the rebels had the thing but let them get them and more because they were more of a problem to the rebels than the Empire.
Examples would be the radar blaster thing on Hoth and the pill-shaped craft taking off behind Luke on Hoth. According to old material, the blaster was finicky, not very strong, and kept techs busy. The ship was also difficult to keep running as was a logistical burden, but the rebels needed ships.
The rebels also had other fighter types, usually less capable and troublesome than the X-wing, but they could be had in greater numbers.
One other thing of note: conventional wheeled and tracked vehicles were still common, especially away from the core. At least one sourcebook stated that rebels would often build light factories and farming colonies on out of the way planets. There they would use conventional vehicles almost exclsively, as well as draft animals. This was because repulsorlift devices produced a signature that could be detected from a distance in space by the right equipment, like that on Imperial scout ships. Due to the number of planets, scout ships might just drop into a system and make a quick scan and if there wasn't much activity, leave again. Repulsor signature was sure to draw their interest.
I love Rebel ground vehicles because of their looks, but damn they were terrible. Even in the video games it was hard to truly balance them to be effective. Unless you’re talking about Galactic Battlegrounds, where Imperial and Rebel vehicles were just different looking pieces on what was basically a chess board.
The Empires biggest Problem was that they had to defend a whole galaxy, thus spreading their Military, while the rebels could always move, but the empire still focused their forces on big enemie Organisations like if there were other gouvernements with a big Military. Maybe, but just maybe, that could have had sth to do with palpies knowledge of the yuuzhan vong.
What's the point of ground vehicles when they are always moving in space? Like it be a waste if the Rebels built ground vehicles and established a factory only for them to up and leave immediately. Plus, I think the Rebels had a smarter tactic regarding prioritizing space combat than ground combat. Hit the Imperial fleets in space! Unless the Empire builds teleporters, it'll take longer to deliver reinforcements if at all.
Heavy vehicles are, generally speaking, for taking territory and pitched battles. You use them when you intend on owning the ground when the battle is over.
The Alliance had little use for taking actual ground by force. They could never hold onto it for long even if they did take it.
Far better to have easily transported light equipment for hit and fade attacks.
Also there is the psychological side to consider, a hit and run with some fast speeders with laser cannons strapped to them, well that's Rebels being rebels. They probably aren't even on the planet anymore. Some Rebels roll up to you garrison with some heavy tanks? That's a civilian population about to experience the worst the Empire can muster.
But how do these stationary defenses seen on Hoth fit into the mobile doctrine? Like those gun turrets, that gun that looks like a radar dish (to lazy to look up their names). These would be al lot more flexible if put on a repulsorlift or tracked vehicle allowing mobile tactics such as flanking the enemy, avoiding most fire from AT-AT as their weapons are forward mounted and they take time to turn, then trying to hit the weaker areas. Walkers would possible be to slow for the rebels. Although something like AT-RT would fit perfectly.
Also with vehicles you have the possibility of driving them onto transport star ships and evacuate them if given the time. Stationary defenses will always be lost if you have to evacuate unless you have a lot of time.
To be fair, given the design issues of AT-STs and -ATs I'm not sure how much of a disadvantage their lack of ground vehicles actually was
I would say the snowspeeders are their most famous "ground" vehicles, and they're actually just air vehicles
tbh the snowspeeder WAS a ground vehicle for many purposes since it wasn't a spaceship but an atmospheric flyer.
rember that most of this is legends. I do not think there is a Rebel ground vehicle in Canon. Thus Unlike the Templin Institute, Cara Dune was right to be wary of AT-ST's
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the rebel alliance managed to capture some Russian T-80s
You know, why did the Rebels even have planetary bases? Maybe somewhere to hide and refuel their small ships and fighters, but having a mobile fleet was much more effective at evasion.
Planetside, they could've dispersed amongst a population centre with light assets. Any thought of a pitched battle on the ground was as like Hoth. And positioning heavy assets like turbo lasers and ion cannons were already expected to be lost in an assault.
If you could have a planetary shield, why not set it up to protect civilian allies or as extra shielding around the weaker ships of the fleet? (not sure on the limitations of the planetary shield) I think they should've built a sort of skeletal mobile station for a number of ships to dock with and be protected under. Keep it at a point with many escape routes. If the Empire were to find it, jump it out with the fleet, or break it up and scatter.
Which is funny, because in OG (2004) Battlefront, the rebels have by far the best ground vehicle.
I just now thought about, and I’m definitely not the first person to think of this, but the AT-ATs could have just stopped walking instead of getting toppled over lol