People thought this of dawn breaker and it’s one of the easiest ones this season. I think when people get used to the darkness mechanic and cart section it’ll be okay
Not even remotely comparable. COT timer take into account the RP, there is little variation and position are fixed you can know which one is which very fast and there is very little possibility for full wype. Darkcleft is a nightmare in preparation
It feels like not much has really changed on the healer front. I was never the best healer but normally got 3k-3.2k on disc/druid every season. Healing was so tiring last expansion and it feels pretty much the same if not worse this one. Lots of healer mechanics/while also dpsing while also kicking if they can and also making sure to do dungeon mechanics. It feels so much less rewarding then just being a dps and turning my brain off. I got to 3k on my disc this season then stopped healing and moved to dps. Its to much stress for little to no reward it feels like. When I do good as a dps and top the charts it feels great. When I would heal really high keys as a healer it just felt exhausting not rewarding really. Maybe its just me though.
Dungeon Pool doesn't matter as long as M+ mechanics are crap. Changes need to be made to death penalty/respawn locations, Interrupts/Caster Mob damage, Key Depletion/Timers and Tank damage intake. Most people I know don't enjoy the small pull-sizes that the recent M+ changes incentivize.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Why do you think that it needs to be replaced with anything in the first place? They could just move the Fortified/Tyrannical to 6 or something. Would be more enjoyable than it is currently. Anyway, just pointing out the flaws should be enough, and I'm sure Blizzard can come up with something that's more interesting.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Way too big and long, literally has 5 bosses in there.. Best dungeons are fast and small like Freehold, 3 bosses tops. Hence why Ara-Kara and Dawnbreaker are the most popular dungeons this season.
I personally run with a mostly fixed group or guild group, so we're able to deal with Challengers Peril. So we're able to pick ourselves up & go again if something goes wrong. But I've heard from many other friends, who used to pug, about how they've been completely turned off/quit M+ because Challengers Peril creates such a toxic pug environment. Also Priory, all those overlapping consecrations from the Paladin enemies is going to be absolute visual clutter & pretty hell for melee.
As someone that has two chested all 11's on a non-meta tank solo pugging, I absolutely hate that they made this big wall to jump over at 12. I really do understand that someone that is hosting 12's is going to want to invite someone that has timed a 12 and someone that is playing the meta class. They want the best odds and the odds are so bad with the alternative, so that makes sense. I keep being told that the solution is to host my own keys. Well how does that go? I have to roll the dice on other people that haven't timed 12's because that is all I am seeing in group finder. First pull (or first boss), DPS doesn't use their kick or defensives and one person dies. Pack/boss lasts forever and more DPS and the healer dies. Someone leaves and my key depletes back down to an 11. I have to time that 11 again in a random pug for no IO just to try again. I have had this experience multiple times. At this point, I am thinking the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I have just been doing my vault weekly keys and might do that for a few more weeks before I call it a season.
Unfortunately this is happening to far too many players and it's getting old real fast, they are biting the hand that feeds them. If this is the future of M+ then a lot of people will just stop all together. As a former M+ tank, I feel ya pain!
thats true, when i host 12's keys, normally i wont invite anyone who havent timed a single 12 since the difference is huge. i just think that if you never timed a 12 you dont know the amount of damage difference that exists on a 12 so i rather not take you. it feels like a 11 is the same as a 21 but a 12 is the same as a 25. its a big jump
even worse is the fact, that nobody really plays 11. So the best way is to try to go on 10 and make that a 12 again. Now i have timed 4 plus 12 keys as WW monk. I cant get invited to the other 4. I have to play my own 10 key, hope to ++ it, then have to hope that it is one of the keys that i actually need. One small mistake and i have to do it all again, just for another try to play a key i really need. I cant actually play the game how i want to play it. It just feels so bad.
For darkflame, I feel like the only thing they need to do is remove the darkness from the mine cart area and remove the dynamite throwing portion (just make cart port you like in stone vault).
For dark flame needs to be a small candle on the cart that’s constant and a certain radius but you don’t have to go get candles, so it’s still the same thing but don’t have to worry about turning your back to get a candle
I love big pulls! I REALLY do. I hope they make tanks tanky again so we get incentivise those big pulls. As of now, the amount of tank busters, massive amounts of mechanics and kicks force tanks to pull smaller. And those dungeons ALL have giant pulls
i think getting a repeat dungeon is fine when you consider they have 5 brand new dungeons to work on this season bringing back something that is already in a working state makes perfect sense to reduce the workload
If season 2 is as punishing and time consuming as season 1 I'll probabaly just raid log. The amount of time it took to just get a key going was not worth it and didnt feel like the game respected my time at all.
I suspect the reason we are getting Mech again is because we're also getting a new dungeon. I think it's the rule of "you can have this, but it will cost you a raid tier".
Liking the rotation outside of Cleft for cart part and Motherlode (never played Mechagon so not fussed if it's a repeat). Theater of Pain is an awesome dungeon
The problem with new dungeons is that they are ALWAYS over-tuned. And it takes half a season for them to nerf it to actually be playable for PUGs, not just MDI push groups. Which results in a big decline in the player base and then you don't even turn the key because it's played by three people.
Problem is; the good BFA dungeons have all been back. We are down to Shrine (which I loved, but dps probably don't), Kings Rest which would require astronomical amounts of tuning, Temple of Sethraliss and Tol Dagor. Y-I-K-E-S. Junkyard would be better though, or I personally wouldn't mind Waycrest again, WM is one of the best dungeons ever made imo.
Players: Hey, Challenger's Peril is a pretty bad affix given how you lose way more than 15 seconds already on a death. Fix it somehow? Blizz: Here you go, you get an extra 1:30 minutes for you key instead of us just making it 5 seconds every death like before. Like come on, all these design choices we've had regarding classes, dungeons and affixes are just ridiculous.
I always enjoy your videos and nameplates, Q! I started listening long ago now. (Side note…I don’t know if you’ve been working on your accent or I’m just getting used to it, but you’re much easier for me to understand these days!)
The thing with new dungeons is: they've done this before, back in Legion. Everyone in my bubble hated it. I can imagine them overdoing it again. As for Mechagon Workshop, I think they're using it to save time in development.
Remove the Timer or Key drop or Remove Bonus rewards for faster Times. Detox m+. Add a Challange Mode for People who like the suffering and flaming, no extra rewards.
Bizzard decided to add a Dungeon for Season 2 and one for Season 3 instead of adding a Mega Dungeon, then splitting it up into two separate Dungeons later in the expansion.
If they actually make tanks feel TANKY again and not constantly thinking OH SH*T OH SH*T every pull. And stop making healers the answer for every mechanic and affix. Then more people would play those roles. 2 things we absolutely need to have a healthy M+ scene.
Anything that used to need a death skip can probably be reproduced these days with some combination of meld, weyrnstone, mind soothes or shrouds. Won't be fun for pugging though. Not looking forward to workshop though. Would have been more fun for me if we had shrine + motherlode.... 2 big aoe dungeons with a decent focus on interrupts/cc.
Cinderbrew Meadery: A-Tank overpulls or dps facepullls, group wipes and gets farmed, key is bricked. B- Dungeon is super linear. C- the slows will feel terrible without a bunch of paladins. D- the pelter mobs will farm pugs. Darkflame Cleft: All around just terrible mobs and RP. Straight line. Rookery: Straight line, very boring. Priory: way too many casters, some routing choice. Workshop: one of the best dungeons ever made, to balance the 4 horrible TWW dgs of this season. Motherlode: lots of routing choices, great bosses. ToP: some routing choices, some good and some bad bosses. The biggest issue: lack of a tank cheat death trinket.
Workshop, Floodgate and motherlode are all thematically aligned with the new raid would be my main guess as to why workshop is there, TOP I have no idea would have rather had Halls of atonement but TOP was an alright dungeon imo.
Workshop wasn't even that hated? They were never going to add Halls of Atonement when Priority of The Sacred Flames is already such an open dungeon. It's to provent an uncapped AoE meta if anything.
No one amongst my guild or amongst the randoms i play with frequently has expressed an issue with challengers peril .. we're not exactly super high key pushers but we do our best .. people always blamed each other when dying, in every season .. dont think peril has changed much in that sense. Don't really think it needs changing personally 🤷♂ Also the excitement it added to MDI was amazing. Bigger chance for upsets and higher reward for consistency.
That’s THREE seasons Workshop has been featured in… this is just lazy. And sorry guys, Workshop during S4 SL was awful. I had awful memories pugging these at 23-24 key levels. Not looking forward to this shit again…
Blizzard have fallen into the trap of making M+ and raids for the chosen few and not the masses. If they continue to make content that is aimed at the top1% then it won't end up very well. I'm not saying that everything should be ultra casual but they certainly need to look at the complexity of certain dungeons and raid bosses for pug groups. The dungeon choices for S2 just don't make sense either. It's like they have 100 choices but their idea is "let's just take the hardest ones to complete for the 1% club", this reasoning drives meta groups.
since the most high key players agree it's nice to play without affixes... maybe try this for the low key players as well for a season? I think the affixes are better now than what they used to be but would still prefer no affix at all and let us just play the dungeons (there is enough shit to deal with anyway).
Mobs for the cart should Jsut come in waves or something instead of being out there on the sides and you just fuel the cart up and deal e it h waves of mobs while maintaining the light
Yes I’m def in queue sim now. Finally got all my 11s done. And while I’m super excited to start 12s I’ve only attempted about three in a week bc of I’m getting passed up my rsham as an hpal. I’ve never sat in a Q for more than 5 mins for a group. Now it’s easily 30 mins to an hour. Help!!
Yeah I just want some way to balance out classes a bit. ST damage in raid is very well balanced, but aoe and utility definitely not. even trying to do weekly +10's as a windwalker for a shot at mythic loot was miserably slow and eventually i gave up. Im in a guild thats AOTC and maybe kills a few mythic bosses, and i love playing withthem, but only a small few enjoy m+ so i have to pug them.
I only pug because I’m time poor. I won’t be playing s2 [or ably because s1 has been so painful. This will be first time ever I haven’t around 3.5k io or the equivalent which will probs be around 3k this season. Guile has killed the subcut of people just below title range.
Workshop? Again? Is that the one with the little gauntlet where you have to hide? ToP was shit! So many better choices, like HoA as mentioned, hell I even enjoyed SD too. The gauntlet at the end before last boss was wicked.
Ya ask, why theater of pain? well the name itself should tell you why lol. blizz wants us to feel pain and agony when pugging. For motherlode, luv it, bring it on. for workshop man.... stop it already, 3 times already? i bet they re testing to see if dungeons would have been different back then without old affixes or something. this S2 , although fun wont be easy at all. i was thinking too about halls of atonement, that one is what ive been craving for. For those KR fanatics, well if they included KR then it would be the season of pug destroying , nasty nasty dungeon, id rather to do shrine of the storm
"i bet they re testing to see if dungeons would have been different" is what you said above, let me tell you, they're not testing anything, it'll be the player base testing it for them on PTR and Blizz will still get it wrong, just like they have in S1
@kickthunt4239 ofc I know they don't test anything lol, I saw it back then with the release of storming and shadowlands. Maybe this time is different, who knows but yeah I know in general they don't test , it's us on live servers :p
I thought Theater of Pain was the worst Shadowlands dungeon so my only hope is that they have some good ideas on how to bring it back. If it's largely unchanged like NW and Mists then it's probably going to suck.
I think that thé gearing from m+ has to be looked on too. Asi an only m+ player I am only doing the weekly for thé vault waiting to get my gear so I can push a bit as now it is inefficient. At least make thé myth vault from 8s as it was before.. Doing 10 on all my alts Is boring and zimě consuming 🙂
Wow they really like recycling dungeons now don't they. First Grim Batol now Workshop. We need another version of Deadmines now so we can have 4 different versions of it.
the reason we see workshop for the 3rd time, is that they want our money without putting ANY effort into the game. I bet they don’t even add anything to balancing that crap dungeon^^
I guess I'm the odd man out. I want as few new dungeons as possible each season. They're making the so insanely mechanical and complex, it's not fun spending that much time learning every mob in a dungeon for a normal person.
Darkflame cleft is a horrible dungeon. I cannot imagine this in high keys
That's gonna be a nightmare for sure
yeah that’s really the only one that I worry will be miserable
Those 4 TWW dungeons are all horrible.
People thought this of dawn breaker and it’s one of the easiest ones this season. I think when people get used to the darkness mechanic and cart section it’ll be okay
Right now it is terrible, however if they remove the entire rp-minecart-candle thing I think it’s going to be a lot better
If City of Threads RP went live, the Darkflame Cleft minecart RP is definitely going live
for sure it will lol
Not even remotely comparable. COT timer take into account the RP, there is little variation and position are fixed you can know which one is which very fast and there is very little possibility for full wype. Darkcleft is a nightmare in preparation
They need to do something to get more people to play tanks and healers
It feels like not much has really changed on the healer front. I was never the best healer but normally got 3k-3.2k on disc/druid every season. Healing was so tiring last expansion and it feels pretty much the same if not worse this one. Lots of healer mechanics/while also dpsing while also kicking if they can and also making sure to do dungeon mechanics. It feels so much less rewarding then just being a dps and turning my brain off. I got to 3k on my disc this season then stopped healing and moved to dps. Its to much stress for little to no reward it feels like. When I do good as a dps and top the charts it feels great. When I would heal really high keys as a healer it just felt exhausting not rewarding really. Maybe its just me though.
Blame the tryhard dps that rage at the tank/healer even when the key was timed. The healer abuse at low keys is unreal. I really feel sorry for them.
As i healer i hate doing high keys
We need to do things that stop making people quit tanking and healing more than the opposite.
Get less toxic dunning kruger dps players and we'll have more tanks & healers.
Dungeon Pool doesn't matter as long as M+ mechanics are crap.
Changes need to be made to death penalty/respawn locations, Interrupts/Caster Mob damage, Key Depletion/Timers and Tank damage intake.
Most people I know don't enjoy the small pull-sizes that the recent M+ changes incentivize.
so if you remove Challenger's Peril - what are you replacing it with since it's an affix???
Hear me out=> with fkin nothing
Amen. Blizzard haven’t figured out that the player base enjoys bigger pulls and blasting.
@@scootypuffjr__3023
Why do you think that it needs to be replaced with anything in the first place? They could just move the Fortified/Tyrannical to 6 or something. Would be more enjoyable than it is currently.
Anyway, just pointing out the flaws should be enough, and I'm sure Blizzard can come up with something that's more interesting.
This just reads like a skill issue tbh
i am afraid of darkflame cleft. I didnt like the cart part to the endboss from the start...^^
Darkflame, Theater of Pain and Workshop.... disaster season
Theater is a MOVIE WDYM?!?!?!?!
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Way too big and long, literally has 5 bosses in there.. Best dungeons are fast and small like Freehold, 3 bosses tops. Hence why Ara-Kara and Dawnbreaker are the most popular dungeons this season.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 man, theater is a fucking raid, 1h key 5 bosses are u kidding me
@@BreackTheHeat also a lot of minibosses...so tyra and forti at once gonna hurt af
@@CoreMsK hows 37min key a 1h key.
I am not stepping foot in Darflame Cleft
😂😂😂 same
I personally run with a mostly fixed group or guild group, so we're able to deal with Challengers Peril. So we're able to pick ourselves up & go again if something goes wrong.
But I've heard from many other friends, who used to pug, about how they've been completely turned off/quit M+ because Challengers Peril creates such a toxic pug environment.
Also Priory, all those overlapping consecrations from the Paladin enemies is going to be absolute visual clutter & pretty hell for melee.
Its sad we are getting workshop again... some many great dungeons and we get this... gambit, hoa, sd would be so nice
or junk!
@@thomasr.7398 I know Junk is free, but I'd hate to see it again.
Shadowlands Season 4 - definitely too soon to put Workshop back in the rotation
As someone that has two chested all 11's on a non-meta tank solo pugging, I absolutely hate that they made this big wall to jump over at 12. I really do understand that someone that is hosting 12's is going to want to invite someone that has timed a 12 and someone that is playing the meta class. They want the best odds and the odds are so bad with the alternative, so that makes sense.
I keep being told that the solution is to host my own keys. Well how does that go? I have to roll the dice on other people that haven't timed 12's because that is all I am seeing in group finder. First pull (or first boss), DPS doesn't use their kick or defensives and one person dies. Pack/boss lasts forever and more DPS and the healer dies. Someone leaves and my key depletes back down to an 11. I have to time that 11 again in a random pug for no IO just to try again. I have had this experience multiple times.
At this point, I am thinking the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I have just been doing my vault weekly keys and might do that for a few more weeks before I call it a season.
Unfortunately this is happening to far too many players and it's getting old real fast, they are biting the hand that feeds them. If this is the future of M+ then a lot of people will just stop all together. As a former M+ tank, I feel ya pain!
thats true, when i host 12's keys, normally i wont invite anyone who havent timed a single 12 since the difference is huge. i just think that if you never timed a 12 you dont know the amount of damage difference that exists on a 12 so i rather not take you. it feels like a 11 is the same as a 21 but a 12 is the same as a 25. its a big jump
even worse is the fact, that nobody really plays 11. So the best way is to try to go on 10 and make that a 12 again. Now i have timed 4 plus 12 keys as WW monk. I cant get invited to the other 4. I have to play my own 10 key, hope to ++ it, then have to hope that it is one of the keys that i actually need. One small mistake and i have to do it all again, just for another try to play a key i really need. I cant actually play the game how i want to play it. It just feels so bad.
Preach bro. Im probably a 13-14+ level player, but holy shit. 12s are an absolute disaster.
This is what made me play an alt, pushing the io just isn’t worth the time investment
For darkflame, I feel like the only thing they need to do is remove the darkness from the mine cart area and remove the dynamite throwing portion (just make cart port you like in stone vault).
For dark flame needs to be a small candle on the cart that’s constant and a certain radius but you don’t have to go get candles, so it’s still the same thing but don’t have to worry about turning your back to get a candle
I love big pulls! I REALLY do. I hope they make tanks tanky again so we get incentivise those big pulls. As of now, the amount of tank busters, massive amounts of mechanics and kicks force tanks to pull smaller. And those dungeons ALL have giant pulls
this idea they needed to do motherload and workshop because GOBLIN THEME OMERGERD is dumb
But then ToP as well, for some odd reason.
Workshop is gnome, my brother
So early I didnt even get to pop my meta
i think getting a repeat dungeon is fine when you consider they have 5 brand new dungeons to work on this season
bringing back something that is already in a working state makes perfect sense to reduce the workload
Wow my circles have a much different opinion on theater. We all LOVE it. Easily top 3 SL dungeon. That was the most exciting reveal for my team
If season 2 is as punishing and time consuming as season 1 I'll probabaly just raid log. The amount of time it took to just get a key going was not worth it and didnt feel like the game respected my time at all.
From first time i played Darkflame Cleft, I was like "Yea, this is gonna be a dead key"
I suspect the reason we are getting Mech again is because we're also getting a new dungeon. I think it's the rule of "you can have this, but it will cost you a raid tier".
Liking the rotation outside of Cleft for cart part and Motherlode (never played Mechagon so not fussed if it's a repeat). Theater of Pain is an awesome dungeon
I'm almost certain that they picked Workshop and Theater of Pain just because they're both underground to match the theme.
I think the dungeon rotation is to fit the theme of the next zone, Goblins. Motherlode and Workshop fit in that genre
Really hope no RP at all in M+ agree with the Darkflame Cleft comment
I loved kings rest and my highest key ever was a 27 junkyard, so thats a personal favorite
The problem with new dungeons is that they are ALWAYS over-tuned. And it takes half a season for them to nerf it to actually be playable for PUGs, not just MDI push groups.
Which results in a big decline in the player base and then you don't even turn the key because it's played by three people.
Even if they can’t skip the RP, suspending the key timer for the duration would be appreciated. The HoV point is good though.
Problem is; the good BFA dungeons have all been back. We are down to Shrine (which I loved, but dps probably don't), Kings Rest which would require astronomical amounts of tuning, Temple of Sethraliss and Tol Dagor. Y-I-K-E-S. Junkyard would be better though, or I personally wouldn't mind Waycrest again, WM is one of the best dungeons ever made imo.
Players: Hey, Challenger's Peril is a pretty bad affix given how you lose way more than 15 seconds already on a death. Fix it somehow?
Blizz: Here you go, you get an extra 1:30 minutes for you key instead of us just making it 5 seconds every death like before.
Like come on, all these design choices we've had regarding classes, dungeons and affixes are just ridiculous.
I always enjoy your videos and nameplates, Q! I started listening long ago now. (Side note…I don’t know if you’ve been working on your accent or I’m just getting used to it, but you’re much easier for me to understand these days!)
The thing with new dungeons is: they've done this before, back in Legion. Everyone in my bubble hated it. I can imagine them overdoing it again. As for Mechagon Workshop, I think they're using it to save time in development.
Remove the Timer or Key drop or Remove Bonus rewards for faster Times. Detox m+. Add a Challange Mode for People who like the suffering and flaming, no extra rewards.
Bizzard decided to add a Dungeon for Season 2 and one for Season 3 instead of adding a Mega Dungeon, then splitting it up into two separate Dungeons later in the expansion.
If they actually make tanks feel TANKY again and not constantly thinking OH SH*T OH SH*T every pull. And stop making healers the answer for every mechanic and affix. Then more people would play those roles. 2 things we absolutely need to have a healthy M+ scene.
Tanking is pretty easy if you just pop a defensive BEFORE pulling a group lmao
@@RPGeekvery true.
Anything that used to need a death skip can probably be reproduced these days with some combination of meld, weyrnstone, mind soothes or shrouds. Won't be fun for pugging though. Not looking forward to workshop though. Would have been more fun for me if we had shrine + motherlode.... 2 big aoe dungeons with a decent focus on interrupts/cc.
Workshop coming back as it fits the new 11.1 goblin theme.
No other reason.
Workshop is gnome
@@Aggrofool gnomes, goblins, they are all the same :)) But you may be right. Might still fit the 11.1 theme anyway.
Cinderbrew Meadery: A-Tank overpulls or dps facepullls, group wipes and gets farmed, key is bricked. B- Dungeon is super linear. C- the slows will feel terrible without a bunch of paladins. D- the pelter mobs will farm pugs.
Darkflame Cleft: All around just terrible mobs and RP. Straight line.
Rookery: Straight line, very boring.
Priory: way too many casters, some routing choice.
Workshop: one of the best dungeons ever made, to balance the 4 horrible TWW dgs of this season.
Motherlode: lots of routing choices, great bosses.
ToP: some routing choices, some good and some bad bosses.
The biggest issue: lack of a tank cheat death trinket.
I'd love some burning crusade mythic plus
Workshop, Floodgate and motherlode are all thematically aligned with the new raid would be my main guess as to why workshop is there, TOP I have no idea would have rather had Halls of atonement but TOP was an alright dungeon imo.
Workshop wasn't even that hated?
They were never going to add Halls of Atonement when Priority of The Sacred Flames is already such an open dungeon. It's to provent an uncapped AoE meta if anything.
Ough nough, the dreaded uncapped AoE meta, people get to do some damage in a couple pulls in a couple dungeons. The absolute horror!
Oh no a meta where people have more fun!? 😮 so horrible!
The mystery of season 2 had me pretty excited. I’m no longer that excited for it. Oh boy
No one amongst my guild or amongst the randoms i play with frequently has expressed an issue with challengers peril .. we're not exactly super high key pushers but we do our best .. people always blamed each other when dying, in every season .. dont think peril has changed much in that sense. Don't really think it needs changing personally 🤷♂
Also the excitement it added to MDI was amazing. Bigger chance for upsets and higher reward for consistency.
That’s THREE seasons Workshop has been featured in… this is just lazy.
And sorry guys, Workshop during S4 SL was awful. I had awful memories pugging these at 23-24 key levels. Not looking forward to this shit again…
Blizzard have fallen into the trap of making M+ and raids for the chosen few and not the masses. If they continue to make content that is aimed at the top1% then it won't end up very well. I'm not saying that everything should be ultra casual but they certainly need to look at the complexity of certain dungeons and raid bosses for pug groups. The dungeon choices for S2 just don't make sense either. It's like they have 100 choices but their idea is "let's just take the hardest ones to complete for the 1% club", this reasoning drives meta groups.
Everyone wants to see Maw of Souls, make it happen.
since the most high key players agree it's nice to play without affixes... maybe try this for the low key players as well for a season? I think the affixes are better now than what they used to be but would still prefer no affix at all and let us just play the dungeons (there is enough shit to deal with anyway).
I'm a huge fan of theater of pain, motherlode is ok. but i hated all mechagons. I would happily take shrine of the storms any day.
I'm never tanking Darkflame Cleft
i do vote for halls of ato,ment, was quite nice dungeon, felt good
im one of the 4 people that liked theater of pain and i mained tank in SL s1
You guys try to have fun in S2 💨 ✌️ 😎
Am I the only one who is afraid of priory dungeon and the mobs damage? The consecration that the mobs cast are hard hitting spells
Dungeon pool is so bad, idk if i want to play at all
Dragonflight: Season 1 - random island location - Season 2, underground location
TWW: COPY-PASTE
Mobs for the cart should Jsut come in waves or something instead of being out there on the sides and you just fuel the cart up and deal e it h waves of mobs while maintaining the light
I got theatre of pain I’m happy
They hate us, that’s why. Must be like 1 person for every 10 players they like any of these season 2 choices. So bad.
Don't the returning dungeons each have mounts/schematics for mounts?
I might return if they ever get some good dungeons again, who chose this line up in S1?
Workshop is coming back because it is a goblin themed season /shrug
Workshop is gnome
Soo, Hunters Flare doesn’t cancel the Mine Cart gauntlet in Darkflame Cleft? I feel like it should.
Why workshop and not junkyard tho! ooof... also that darkcleft dungeon is gonna be such a pain, specially if you pug
Hi do we get new class tuning aswell?
Workforce shortage?? Because we are already using dungeons that are already re-used?!?!
Operation Mechagon second time ,so so bad ...
Yes I’m def in queue sim now. Finally got all my 11s done. And while I’m super excited to start 12s I’ve only attempted about three in a week bc of I’m getting passed up my rsham as an hpal. I’ve never sat in a Q for more than 5 mins for a group. Now it’s easily 30 mins to an hour. Help!!
Workshop is a “mech-ish” dungeon to fit the “theme” not a fan of it either but shrine of storm wouldn’t fit it. It’s all theme based.
Darkflame is gonna just be troll in pug keys .the last boss zzzz
Not keen for this
And workshop again?
Those people who picking these dungeons are antisocial
Ugly and stinky people
Operation Mechagon... puke. Shrine? NOOO.. Kings rest wasnt that bad tbh
Yeah I just want some way to balance out classes a bit. ST damage in raid is very well balanced, but aoe and utility definitely not. even trying to do weekly +10's as a windwalker for a shot at mythic loot was miserably slow and eventually i gave up. Im in a guild thats AOTC and maybe kills a few mythic bosses, and i love playing withthem, but only a small few enjoy m+ so i have to pug them.
Blizz just hates fun at this point
workshop (again) is giga F
I enjoy theater of pain, i really dislike mechagon dungeons....
I only pug because I’m time poor. I won’t be playing s2 [or ably because s1 has been so painful. This will be first time ever I haven’t around 3.5k io or the equivalent which will probs be around 3k this season. Guile has killed the subcut of people just below title range.
At this point just make the group 6 or 7, so we can put more dps in
yea add more toxic shitters to the group, that will fix it
Flexible, dungeons would be cool
r.i.p tww s2
Workshop? Again? Is that the one with the little gauntlet where you have to hide?
ToP was shit! So many better choices, like HoA as mentioned, hell I even enjoyed SD too. The gauntlet at the end before last boss was wicked.
I'm skipping TWW S2, all main problems for pugs weren't addressed and on top of that we got new complicated dgs😅
Ya ask, why theater of pain? well the name itself should tell you why lol. blizz wants us to feel pain and agony when pugging. For motherlode, luv it, bring it on. for workshop man.... stop it already, 3 times already? i bet they re testing to see if dungeons would have been different back then without old affixes or something. this S2 , although fun wont be easy at all. i was thinking too about halls of atonement, that one is what ive been craving for. For those KR fanatics, well if they included KR then it would be the season of pug destroying , nasty nasty dungeon, id rather to do shrine of the storm
"i bet they re testing to see if dungeons would have been different" is what you said above, let me tell you, they're not testing anything, it'll be the player base testing it for them on PTR and Blizz will still get it wrong, just like they have in S1
@kickthunt4239 ofc I know they don't test anything lol, I saw it back then with the release of storming and shadowlands. Maybe this time is different, who knows but yeah I know in general they don't test , it's us on live servers :p
S2
It's time to take a break from WOW
Halls of atonement was good, but 100% objectively NOT the best SL dungeon. Upper Tazavesh was by far the best SL dungeon.
Hell its impossible to even get into M+ unless yo run your own key. ppl are just to damn picky this season its annoying.
Darkflame Cleft sucks so hard.
we just need some enhancer buffs then it will be great
100% workshop and top can jog on lol
finally, mechagon again!
I thought Theater of Pain was the worst Shadowlands dungeon so my only hope is that they have some good ideas on how to bring it back. If it's largely unchanged like NW and Mists then it's probably going to suck.
I sign every word you said
I think that thé gearing from m+ has to be looked on too. Asi an only m+ player I am only doing the weekly for thé vault waiting to get my gear so I can push a bit as now it is inefficient. At least make thé myth vault from 8s as it was before.. Doing 10 on all my alts Is boring and zimě consuming 🙂
I am president of the kings rest was good fan club
Must be a small club, that place was terrible.
@@leighjamieson1856 actual trash dungeon indeed
two bfa dungeons, a shit sl dungeon, dark cleft? no legion, no mists, no wod there are way better choices
Theater of pain ??? COME ON !!!! its SL dungeon, why ?
Wow they really like recycling dungeons now don't they. First Grim Batol now Workshop. We need another version of Deadmines now so we can have 4 different versions of it.
the reason we see workshop for the 3rd time, is that they want our money without putting ANY effort into the game. I bet they don’t even add anything to balancing that crap dungeon^^
please do not return mechagon workshop AGAIN... blizz listen to Quazii and the rest of the community
eh, good thing i quit last month.
workshop because goblins
I guess I'm the odd man out. I want as few new dungeons as possible each season. They're making the so insanely mechanical and complex, it's not fun spending that much time learning every mob in a dungeon for a normal person.