People thought this of dawn breaker and it’s one of the easiest ones this season. I think when people get used to the darkness mechanic and cart section it’ll be okay
As someone that has two chested all 11's on a non-meta tank solo pugging, I absolutely hate that they made this big wall to jump over at 12. I really do understand that someone that is hosting 12's is going to want to invite someone that has timed a 12 and someone that is playing the meta class. They want the best odds and the odds are so bad with the alternative, so that makes sense. I keep being told that the solution is to host my own keys. Well how does that go? I have to roll the dice on other people that haven't timed 12's because that is all I am seeing in group finder. First pull (or first boss), DPS doesn't use their kick or defensives and one person dies. Pack/boss lasts forever and more DPS and the healer dies. Someone leaves and my key depletes back down to an 11. I have to time that 11 again in a random pug for no IO just to try again. I have had this experience multiple times. At this point, I am thinking the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I have just been doing my vault weekly keys and might do that for a few more weeks before I call it a season.
Unfortunately this is happening to far too many players and it's getting old real fast, they are biting the hand that feeds them. If this is the future of M+ then a lot of people will just stop all together. As a former M+ tank, I feel ya pain!
thats true, when i host 12's keys, normally i wont invite anyone who havent timed a single 12 since the difference is huge. i just think that if you never timed a 12 you dont know the amount of damage difference that exists on a 12 so i rather not take you. it feels like a 11 is the same as a 21 but a 12 is the same as a 25. its a big jump
even worse is the fact, that nobody really plays 11. So the best way is to try to go on 10 and make that a 12 again. Now i have timed 4 plus 12 keys as WW monk. I cant get invited to the other 4. I have to play my own 10 key, hope to ++ it, then have to hope that it is one of the keys that i actually need. One small mistake and i have to do it all again, just for another try to play a key i really need. I cant actually play the game how i want to play it. It just feels so bad.
Not even remotely comparable. COT timer take into account the RP, there is little variation and position are fixed you can know which one is which very fast and there is very little possibility for full wype. Darkcleft is a nightmare in preparation
Not comparable at all. They changed the hell out of Brackenhide and made it actually decent, they are going to need to do the same to DC to make it playable
@@radicuristhank you. Im losing my absolute mind. I can’t keep saying it. No one has any clue what they’re talking about. None of it matters till we see the launch build. Tuning is for one tier less HEROIC like I’m actually losing my mad at how obsessed these people are to being mad over things they’ve completely made up
It feels like not much has really changed on the healer front. I was never the best healer but normally got 3k-3.2k on disc/druid every season. Healing was so tiring last expansion and it feels pretty much the same if not worse this one. Lots of healer mechanics/while also dpsing while also kicking if they can and also making sure to do dungeon mechanics. It feels so much less rewarding then just being a dps and turning my brain off. I got to 3k on my disc this season then stopped healing and moved to dps. Its to much stress for little to no reward it feels like. When I do good as a dps and top the charts it feels great. When I would heal really high keys as a healer it just felt exhausting not rewarding really. Maybe its just me though.
Dungeon Pool doesn't matter as long as M+ mechanics are crap. Changes need to be made to death penalty/respawn locations, Interrupts/Caster Mob damage, Key Depletion/Timers and Tank damage intake. Most people I know don't enjoy the small pull-sizes that the recent M+ changes incentivize.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Why do you think that it needs to be replaced with anything in the first place? They could just move the Fortified/Tyrannical to 6 or something. Would be more enjoyable than it is currently. Anyway, just pointing out the flaws should be enough, and I'm sure Blizzard can come up with something that's more interesting.
I personally run with a mostly fixed group or guild group, so we're able to deal with Challengers Peril. So we're able to pick ourselves up & go again if something goes wrong. But I've heard from many other friends, who used to pug, about how they've been completely turned off/quit M+ because Challengers Peril creates such a toxic pug environment. Also Priory, all those overlapping consecrations from the Paladin enemies is going to be absolute visual clutter & pretty hell for melee.
For darkflame, I feel like the only thing they need to do is remove the darkness from the mine cart area and remove the dynamite throwing portion (just make cart port you like in stone vault).
For dark flame needs to be a small candle on the cart that’s constant and a certain radius but you don’t have to go get candles, so it’s still the same thing but don’t have to worry about turning your back to get a candle
The problem with new dungeons is that they are ALWAYS over-tuned. And it takes half a season for them to nerf it to actually be playable for PUGs, not just MDI push groups. Which results in a big decline in the player base and then you don't even turn the key because it's played by three people.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Way too big and long, literally has 5 bosses in there.. Best dungeons are fast and small like Freehold, 3 bosses tops. Hence why Ara-Kara and Dawnbreaker are the most popular dungeons this season.
If season 2 is as punishing and time consuming as season 1 I'll probabaly just raid log. The amount of time it took to just get a key going was not worth it and didnt feel like the game respected my time at all.
i think getting a repeat dungeon is fine when you consider they have 5 brand new dungeons to work on this season bringing back something that is already in a working state makes perfect sense to reduce the workload
i can't figure out how people still enjoy m+. what i see as a mid range player through all theses years is a slow death. pug has never been so dead so early. the ''alt friendly" fantasy is a joke. i feel like my 2-4 hours spent daily in the game worth nothing. if blizzard don't even try to fix the lack of tanks and healers, i won't even to touch season 2.
Yes I’m def in queue sim now. Finally got all my 11s done. And while I’m super excited to start 12s I’ve only attempted about three in a week bc of I’m getting passed up my rsham as an hpal. I’ve never sat in a Q for more than 5 mins for a group. Now it’s easily 30 mins to an hour. Help!!
I think you answered your own question about why Workshop has been recycled yet again--already existed as a M+ dungeon, so they probably didn't have to devote much time to it and gave them more time to developing that brand new dungeon--which while cool, is also kind of weird but really is Blizz in a nutshell--give people what they want, while also giving them something they REALLY don't wait.
Players: Hey, Challenger's Peril is a pretty bad affix given how you lose way more than 15 seconds already on a death. Fix it somehow? Blizz: Here you go, you get an extra 1:30 minutes for you key instead of us just making it 5 seconds every death like before. Like come on, all these design choices we've had regarding classes, dungeons and affixes are just ridiculous.
i guess they only have a certain amount of dungeons to use .. and if they already want to bring back halls of atonement for S3 then they cant use it right now ^^But i would also argue for a 2/2/2/2 split for what dungeons to play in M+ .. as in; - two "current expansion" dungeons (the ones we did leveling and HC in when the expansion dropped - assuming there are 8 of them) - two previous expansion dungeons (the ones that were rotated out after SL:S1) - 2 fan favorite dungeons from further back expansions (i would argue for blizzard holding votes for them .. it feels better when you get to choose pain, just pain) - 2 new dungeons for the season (one that didn't get released as M+ before and one we never have seen before specific for the Season/Patch)
I love big pulls! I REALLY do. I hope they make tanks tanky again so we get incentivise those big pulls. As of now, the amount of tank busters, massive amounts of mechanics and kicks force tanks to pull smaller. And those dungeons ALL have giant pulls
??? Except only shit Tanks are pulling small. I consistently pull 10-16 mobs anytime I can and I'm 100% fine. Tanking and playing higher keys is easier than lower keys since your CD's and Defensives line up more with the start of packs instead of at random times.
Liking the rotation outside of Cleft for cart part and Motherlode (never played Mechagon so not fussed if it's a repeat). Theater of Pain is an awesome dungeon
ToP is a cool dungeon in terms of the RP of it but pushing it in high keys is not fun. Too many minibosses and 5 bosses is just too many especially with getting fortified and tyrannical it'll feel like fighting 10 bosses
I suspect the reason we are getting Mech again is because we're also getting a new dungeon. I think it's the rule of "you can have this, but it will cost you a raid tier".
Bizzard decided to add a Dungeon for Season 2 and one for Season 3 instead of adding a Mega Dungeon, then splitting it up into two separate Dungeons later in the expansion.
Anything that used to need a death skip can probably be reproduced these days with some combination of meld, weyrnstone, mind soothes or shrouds. Won't be fun for pugging though. Not looking forward to workshop though. Would have been more fun for me if we had shrine + motherlode.... 2 big aoe dungeons with a decent focus on interrupts/cc.
Agreed, I love the added new dungeon but not the biggest fan of returning dungeons. Why another SL and not something like a Legion dungeon? Or even a pre-M+ dungeon like Grim Batol, I would love to see a Wrath dungeon like Halls of Lightning/Stone
Workshop, Floodgate and motherlode are all thematically aligned with the new raid would be my main guess as to why workshop is there, TOP I have no idea would have rather had Halls of atonement but TOP was an alright dungeon imo.
The thing with new dungeons is: they've done this before, back in Legion. Everyone in my bubble hated it. I can imagine them overdoing it again. As for Mechagon Workshop, I think they're using it to save time in development.
Challenger’s Peril has been changed already. But it needs to go. It’s a gigantic problem for all groups-if they want to keep it, it’s good for the sweaty try hards, not the pug groups who focus on wanting their portals
I always enjoy your videos and nameplates, Q! I started listening long ago now. (Side note…I don’t know if you’ve been working on your accent or I’m just getting used to it, but you’re much easier for me to understand these days!)
Hey Quazii, I posted something on AutomaticJak's stream and I wanted to post it here. It regards healers vs tanks and I wanted your thoughts: "Hey Jak, love your videos. I'm wondering if you ever play a tank and if you think that it is harder for healers to run PUGs as healer. I'm running Pres Evoker and Prot Warrior and I am finding that it is easier to do keys as a Prot Warrior than a Pres Evoker or even a Disc Priest. I would appreciate your thoughts. I prefer playing healers but what gives? Since you did that interview with Quazii and he says that he occasionally plays a healer i am going to post this exact same post on his stream and see if he answers. I hope the both of you do..."
Maybe if they weren't allocating resources to the Barbie Dream House simulator, or Need for Speed go kart mechanics, we could actually get good dungeons.
The most positive thing about this news is that it gives me affirmation to my decision of not returning for S2 - once again. For the past couple of expansions, Blizzard hasn't been able to keep me engaged throughout a second season. It's quite sad, really but the polish of the gamer experience simply isn't there. Either too much junior talent on staff or decision makers that are nothing but morons. Not sure, probably a combination of both :(
Going to be interesting to see some genius figure out how you can pull all the mobs at the same time in cleft rp run. Then people can just run and get the candles. Ofcourse when tanks in pugs try this they will die and usually they just go offline immediately.
I remain neutral on the choices until we see them live with amy updates. I remember totally dreading Brackenhide Hollow at the start, but really digging it at the end 🤷♂️
since the most high key players agree it's nice to play without affixes... maybe try this for the low key players as well for a season? I think the affixes are better now than what they used to be but would still prefer no affix at all and let us just play the dungeons (there is enough shit to deal with anyway).
Problem is; the good BFA dungeons have all been back. We are down to Shrine (which I loved, but dps probably don't), Kings Rest which would require astronomical amounts of tuning, Temple of Sethraliss and Tol Dagor. Y-I-K-E-S. Junkyard would be better though, or I personally wouldn't mind Waycrest again, WM is one of the best dungeons ever made imo.
Mobs for the cart should Jsut come in waves or something instead of being out there on the sides and you just fuel the cart up and deal e it h waves of mobs while maintaining the light
Remove the Timer or Key drop or Remove Bonus rewards for faster Times. Detox m+. Add a Challange Mode for People who like the suffering and flaming, no extra rewards.
when i first played Darkflame cleft i hated it, and i still hate it. My eyes are not made for so much darkness. People will just play with gamma settings for this crap dungeon. Else i felt like playing blind
Workshop wasn't even that hated? They were never going to add Halls of Atonement when Priority of The Sacred Flames is already such an open dungeon. It's to provent an uncapped AoE meta if anything.
That’s THREE seasons Workshop has been featured in… this is just lazy. And sorry guys, Workshop during S4 SL was awful. I had awful memories pugging these at 23-24 key levels. Not looking forward to this shit again…
If they actually make tanks feel TANKY again and not constantly thinking OH SH*T OH SH*T every pull. And stop making healers the answer for every mechanic and affix. Then more people would play those roles. 2 things we absolutely need to have a healthy M+ scene.
Blizzard have fallen into the trap of making M+ and raids for the chosen few and not the masses. If they continue to make content that is aimed at the top1% then it won't end up very well. I'm not saying that everything should be ultra casual but they certainly need to look at the complexity of certain dungeons and raid bosses for pug groups. The dungeon choices for S2 just don't make sense either. It's like they have 100 choices but their idea is "let's just take the hardest ones to complete for the 1% club", this reasoning drives meta groups.
Yeah I just want some way to balance out classes a bit. ST damage in raid is very well balanced, but aoe and utility definitely not. even trying to do weekly +10's as a windwalker for a shot at mythic loot was miserably slow and eventually i gave up. Im in a guild thats AOTC and maybe kills a few mythic bosses, and i love playing withthem, but only a small few enjoy m+ so i have to pug them.
Cinderbrew Meadery: A-Tank overpulls or dps facepullls, group wipes and gets farmed, key is bricked. B- Dungeon is super linear. C- the slows will feel terrible without a bunch of paladins. D- the pelter mobs will farm pugs. Darkflame Cleft: All around just terrible mobs and RP. Straight line. Rookery: Straight line, very boring. Priory: way too many casters, some routing choice. Workshop: one of the best dungeons ever made, to balance the 4 horrible TWW dgs of this season. Motherlode: lots of routing choices, great bosses. ToP: some routing choices, some good and some bad bosses. The biggest issue: lack of a tank cheat death trinket.
Them putting workshop and ToP back in is just laziness on their part imo. Tbf it does take some time to take a dungeon from old and convert it into m+ but thats not our problem it's theirs. Stop being lazy blizzard. I wasnt there for the first round so im excited.workshop
I think that thé gearing from m+ has to be looked on too. Asi an only m+ player I am only doing the weekly for thé vault waiting to get my gear so I can push a bit as now it is inefficient. At least make thé myth vault from 8s as it was before.. Doing 10 on all my alts Is boring and zimě consuming 🙂
I only pug because I’m time poor. I won’t be playing s2 [or ably because s1 has been so painful. This will be first time ever I haven’t around 3.5k io or the equivalent which will probs be around 3k this season. Guile has killed the subcut of people just below title range.
Really nice with a brand new dungeon! Awesome.. But then ,,,, 100% agree with you. Jeez we hope that the DC mine cart "RP" is going to be removed! -Why Workshop Again!? And again, agree 100%, where is HOA instead of TOP. they bring back those ppl dont like, Kinda have that feeling with multiple changes!! like Mist now? Defenders in maze charging knocking back ranges -.- Its nothing but running, avoid, get silenced, get knocked, move some more.... Blizzard dont want ppl play ranged or the game?
![[Level 1] #34: The Ultimate Price - Tychus Solo (p2) [Starcraft 2 Co-op Mutation]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_5sbK1pjtNE/mqdefault.jpg)
Darkflame cleft is a horrible dungeon. I cannot imagine this in high keys
That's gonna be a nightmare for sure
yeah that’s really the only one that I worry will be miserable
Those 4 TWW dungeons are all horrible.
People thought this of dawn breaker and it’s one of the easiest ones this season. I think when people get used to the darkness mechanic and cart section it’ll be okay
Right now it is terrible, however if they remove the entire rp-minecart-candle thing I think it’s going to be a lot better
As someone that has two chested all 11's on a non-meta tank solo pugging, I absolutely hate that they made this big wall to jump over at 12. I really do understand that someone that is hosting 12's is going to want to invite someone that has timed a 12 and someone that is playing the meta class. They want the best odds and the odds are so bad with the alternative, so that makes sense.
I keep being told that the solution is to host my own keys. Well how does that go? I have to roll the dice on other people that haven't timed 12's because that is all I am seeing in group finder. First pull (or first boss), DPS doesn't use their kick or defensives and one person dies. Pack/boss lasts forever and more DPS and the healer dies. Someone leaves and my key depletes back down to an 11. I have to time that 11 again in a random pug for no IO just to try again. I have had this experience multiple times.
At this point, I am thinking the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I have just been doing my vault weekly keys and might do that for a few more weeks before I call it a season.
Unfortunately this is happening to far too many players and it's getting old real fast, they are biting the hand that feeds them. If this is the future of M+ then a lot of people will just stop all together. As a former M+ tank, I feel ya pain!
thats true, when i host 12's keys, normally i wont invite anyone who havent timed a single 12 since the difference is huge. i just think that if you never timed a 12 you dont know the amount of damage difference that exists on a 12 so i rather not take you. it feels like a 11 is the same as a 21 but a 12 is the same as a 25. its a big jump
even worse is the fact, that nobody really plays 11. So the best way is to try to go on 10 and make that a 12 again. Now i have timed 4 plus 12 keys as WW monk. I cant get invited to the other 4. I have to play my own 10 key, hope to ++ it, then have to hope that it is one of the keys that i actually need. One small mistake and i have to do it all again, just for another try to play a key i really need. I cant actually play the game how i want to play it. It just feels so bad.
Preach bro. Im probably a 13-14+ level player, but holy shit. 12s are an absolute disaster.
This is what made me play an alt, pushing the io just isn’t worth the time investment
If City of Threads RP went live, the Darkflame Cleft minecart RP is definitely going live
Not even remotely comparable. COT timer take into account the RP, there is little variation and position are fixed you can know which one is which very fast and there is very little possibility for full wype. Darkcleft is a nightmare in preparation
Not comparable at all. They changed the hell out of Brackenhide and made it actually decent, they are going to need to do the same to DC to make it playable
@@radicuristhank you. Im losing my absolute mind. I can’t keep saying it. No one has any clue what they’re talking about. None of it matters till we see the launch build. Tuning is for one tier less HEROIC like I’m actually losing my mad at how obsessed these people are to being mad over things they’ve completely made up
COT rp is nothing compared to DFC rp. They are literally night and day difference.
They need to do something to get more people to play tanks and healers
It feels like not much has really changed on the healer front. I was never the best healer but normally got 3k-3.2k on disc/druid every season. Healing was so tiring last expansion and it feels pretty much the same if not worse this one. Lots of healer mechanics/while also dpsing while also kicking if they can and also making sure to do dungeon mechanics. It feels so much less rewarding then just being a dps and turning my brain off. I got to 3k on my disc this season then stopped healing and moved to dps. Its to much stress for little to no reward it feels like. When I do good as a dps and top the charts it feels great. When I would heal really high keys as a healer it just felt exhausting not rewarding really. Maybe its just me though.
Blame the tryhard dps that rage at the tank/healer even when the key was timed. The healer abuse at low keys is unreal. I really feel sorry for them.
As i healer i hate doing high keys
We need to do things that stop making people quit tanking and healing more than the opposite.
Get less toxic dunning kruger dps players and we'll have more tanks & healers.
Dungeon Pool doesn't matter as long as M+ mechanics are crap.
Changes need to be made to death penalty/respawn locations, Interrupts/Caster Mob damage, Key Depletion/Timers and Tank damage intake.
Most people I know don't enjoy the small pull-sizes that the recent M+ changes incentivize.
so if you remove Challenger's Peril - what are you replacing it with since it's an affix???
Hear me out=> with fkin nothing
Amen. Blizzard haven’t figured out that the player base enjoys bigger pulls and blasting.
@@scootypuffjr__3023
Why do you think that it needs to be replaced with anything in the first place? They could just move the Fortified/Tyrannical to 6 or something. Would be more enjoyable than it is currently.
Anyway, just pointing out the flaws should be enough, and I'm sure Blizzard can come up with something that's more interesting.
This just reads like a skill issue tbh
I personally run with a mostly fixed group or guild group, so we're able to deal with Challengers Peril. So we're able to pick ourselves up & go again if something goes wrong.
But I've heard from many other friends, who used to pug, about how they've been completely turned off/quit M+ because Challengers Peril creates such a toxic pug environment.
Also Priory, all those overlapping consecrations from the Paladin enemies is going to be absolute visual clutter & pretty hell for melee.
For darkflame, I feel like the only thing they need to do is remove the darkness from the mine cart area and remove the dynamite throwing portion (just make cart port you like in stone vault).
For dark flame needs to be a small candle on the cart that’s constant and a certain radius but you don’t have to go get candles, so it’s still the same thing but don’t have to worry about turning your back to get a candle
Its sad we are getting workshop again... some many great dungeons and we get this... gambit, hoa, sd would be so nice
or junk!
@@thomasr.7398 I know Junk is free, but I'd hate to see it again.
Shadowlands Season 4 - definitely too soon to put Workshop back in the rotation
i am afraid of darkflame cleft. I didnt like the cart part to the endboss from the start...^^
From first time i played Darkflame Cleft, I was like "Yea, this is gonna be a dead key"
I'm almost certain that they picked Workshop and Theater of Pain just because they're both underground to match the theme.
this idea they needed to do motherload and workshop because GOBLIN THEME OMERGERD is dumb
But then ToP as well, for some odd reason.
Workshop is gnome, my brother
The problem with new dungeons is that they are ALWAYS over-tuned. And it takes half a season for them to nerf it to actually be playable for PUGs, not just MDI push groups.
Which results in a big decline in the player base and then you don't even turn the key because it's played by three people.
I am not stepping foot in Darflame Cleft
😂😂😂 same
Darkflame, Theater of Pain and Workshop.... disaster season
Theater is a MOVIE WDYM?!?!?!?!
@@scootypuffjr__3023 Way too big and long, literally has 5 bosses in there.. Best dungeons are fast and small like Freehold, 3 bosses tops. Hence why Ara-Kara and Dawnbreaker are the most popular dungeons this season.
@@scootypuffjr__3023 man, theater is a fucking raid, 1h key 5 bosses are u kidding me
@@BreackTheHeat also a lot of minibosses...so tyra and forti at once gonna hurt af
@@CoreMsK hows 37min key a 1h key.
So happy to see some new challenges coming, i skipped a few add-ons in the past (=
If season 2 is as punishing and time consuming as season 1 I'll probabaly just raid log. The amount of time it took to just get a key going was not worth it and didnt feel like the game respected my time at all.
Last expansion when your time was respected was Legion.
@Hekk. idk. It felt pretty respected from season 2 of dragonflight forward in m+. It just feels like a slog now.
Soo, Hunters Flare doesn’t cancel the Mine Cart gauntlet in Darkflame Cleft? I feel like it should.
Wow my circles have a much different opinion on theater. We all LOVE it. Easily top 3 SL dungeon. That was the most exciting reveal for my team
I am fine with Theater as well. Kinda low key like it. However darkflame cleft is such a dissapointment
hello quazii. can we get your advanced mdt routes for import without installing ur whole setup? regards
So early I didnt even get to pop my meta
i think getting a repeat dungeon is fine when you consider they have 5 brand new dungeons to work on this season
bringing back something that is already in a working state makes perfect sense to reduce the workload
i can't figure out how people still enjoy m+.
what i see as a mid range player through all theses years is a slow death.
pug has never been so dead so early.
the ''alt friendly" fantasy is a joke.
i feel like my 2-4 hours spent daily in the game worth nothing.
if blizzard don't even try to fix the lack of tanks and healers, i won't even to touch season 2.
I think the dungeon rotation is to fit the theme of the next zone, Goblins. Motherlode and Workshop fit in that genre
Yes I’m def in queue sim now. Finally got all my 11s done. And while I’m super excited to start 12s I’ve only attempted about three in a week bc of I’m getting passed up my rsham as an hpal. I’ve never sat in a Q for more than 5 mins for a group. Now it’s easily 30 mins to an hour. Help!!
I think you answered your own question about why Workshop has been recycled yet again--already existed as a M+ dungeon, so they probably didn't have to devote much time to it and gave them more time to developing that brand new dungeon--which while cool, is also kind of weird but really is Blizz in a nutshell--give people what they want, while also giving them something they REALLY don't wait.
Players: Hey, Challenger's Peril is a pretty bad affix given how you lose way more than 15 seconds already on a death. Fix it somehow?
Blizz: Here you go, you get an extra 1:30 minutes for you key instead of us just making it 5 seconds every death like before.
Like come on, all these design choices we've had regarding classes, dungeons and affixes are just ridiculous.
They could bring any Tazavesh wing instead of ToP. Tazavesh were both awesome!
I absolutely love Workshop, Motherlode, and ToP, and i'm a high key pusher, matter of personal preference I suppose
Don't the returning dungeons each have mounts/schematics for mounts?
i guess they only have a certain amount of dungeons to use .. and if they already want to bring back halls of atonement for S3 then they cant use it right now ^^But i would also argue for a 2/2/2/2 split for what dungeons to play in M+ .. as in;
- two "current expansion" dungeons (the ones we did leveling and HC in when the expansion dropped - assuming there are 8 of them)
- two previous expansion dungeons (the ones that were rotated out after SL:S1)
- 2 fan favorite dungeons from further back expansions (i would argue for blizzard holding votes for them .. it feels better when you get to choose pain, just pain)
- 2 new dungeons for the season (one that didn't get released as M+ before and one we never have seen before specific for the Season/Patch)
Agree with your takes. Queue simulator, ToP pick... I hope they will review their choices, but have they ever swapped a dungeon after announcement?
As far as I see Workshop is coming back to match the season theme, with the goblins.
I loved kings rest and my highest key ever was a 27 junkyard, so thats a personal favorite
Aside from darflame I’m looking forward to the other three war within dungeons. Hoping the other five aren’t terrible to play as tank
I love big pulls! I REALLY do. I hope they make tanks tanky again so we get incentivise those big pulls. As of now, the amount of tank busters, massive amounts of mechanics and kicks force tanks to pull smaller. And those dungeons ALL have giant pulls
??? Except only shit Tanks are pulling small. I consistently pull 10-16 mobs anytime I can and I'm 100% fine. Tanking and playing higher keys is easier than lower keys since your CD's and Defensives line up more with the start of packs instead of at random times.
Liking the rotation outside of Cleft for cart part and Motherlode (never played Mechagon so not fussed if it's a repeat). Theater of Pain is an awesome dungeon
ToP is a cool dungeon in terms of the RP of it but pushing it in high keys is not fun. Too many minibosses and 5 bosses is just too many especially with getting fortified and tyrannical it'll feel like fighting 10 bosses
HoA, Sanguine Depths, De Other Side... all three of those way better than theater of pain.
I suspect the reason we are getting Mech again is because we're also getting a new dungeon. I think it's the rule of "you can have this, but it will cost you a raid tier".
Not even coming back for S2 after this release. Good luck everyone!
Bizzard decided to add a Dungeon for Season 2 and one for Season 3 instead of adding a Mega Dungeon, then splitting it up into two separate Dungeons later in the expansion.
Anything that used to need a death skip can probably be reproduced these days with some combination of meld, weyrnstone, mind soothes or shrouds. Won't be fun for pugging though. Not looking forward to workshop though. Would have been more fun for me if we had shrine + motherlode.... 2 big aoe dungeons with a decent focus on interrupts/cc.
Hopefully we were wrong about darkflame like we were about dawnbreaker.
Agreed, I love the added new dungeon but not the biggest fan of returning dungeons. Why another SL and not something like a Legion dungeon? Or even a pre-M+ dungeon like Grim Batol, I would love to see a Wrath dungeon like Halls of Lightning/Stone
Really hope no RP at all in M+ agree with the Darkflame Cleft comment
Workshop, Floodgate and motherlode are all thematically aligned with the new raid would be my main guess as to why workshop is there, TOP I have no idea would have rather had Halls of atonement but TOP was an alright dungeon imo.
The thing with new dungeons is: they've done this before, back in Legion. Everyone in my bubble hated it. I can imagine them overdoing it again. As for Mechagon Workshop, I think they're using it to save time in development.
Challenger’s Peril has been changed already. But it needs to go. It’s a gigantic problem for all groups-if they want to keep it, it’s good for the sweaty try hards, not the pug groups who focus on wanting their portals
Even if they can’t skip the RP, suspending the key timer for the duration would be appreciated. The HoV point is good though.
I always enjoy your videos and nameplates, Q! I started listening long ago now. (Side note…I don’t know if you’ve been working on your accent or I’m just getting used to it, but you’re much easier for me to understand these days!)
Just make challengers peril a 10 second penalty. That’s all they gotta do
See you all MAYBE in season 3 or 4
Hey Quazii, I posted something on AutomaticJak's stream and I wanted to post it here. It regards healers vs tanks and I wanted your thoughts: "Hey Jak, love your videos. I'm wondering if you ever play a tank and if you think that it is harder for healers to run PUGs as healer. I'm running Pres Evoker and Prot Warrior and I am finding that it is easier to do keys as a Prot Warrior than a Pres Evoker or even a Disc Priest. I would appreciate your thoughts. I prefer playing healers but what gives? Since you did that interview with Quazii and he says that he occasionally plays a healer i am going to post this exact same post on his stream and see if he answers. I hope the both of you do..."
Hi do we get new class tuning aswell?
ALWAYS!
When a new season happens there are class tuning
Darkflame Cleft is proof that Blizzard really don't like us!
Maybe if they weren't allocating resources to the Barbie Dream House simulator, or Need for Speed go kart mechanics, we could actually get good dungeons.
I might return if they ever get some good dungeons again, who chose this line up in S1?
The most positive thing about this news is that it gives me affirmation to my decision of not returning for S2 - once again.
For the past couple of expansions, Blizzard hasn't been able to keep me engaged throughout a second season. It's quite sad, really but the polish of the gamer experience simply isn't there. Either too much junior talent on staff or decision makers that are nothing but morons. Not sure, probably a combination of both :(
Going to be interesting to see some genius figure out how you can pull all the mobs at the same time in cleft rp run. Then people can just run and get the candles. Ofcourse when tanks in pugs try this they will die and usually they just go offline immediately.
Why workshop and not junkyard tho! ooof... also that darkcleft dungeon is gonna be such a pain, specially if you pug
I remain neutral on the choices until we see them live with amy updates. I remember totally dreading Brackenhide Hollow at the start, but really digging it at the end 🤷♂️
Putting Workshop into rotation for the 3rd time is not gonna make people think that the mechagnomes are cool.
as the seasons go by this expansion im convinced that Blizzard hates us bro
since the most high key players agree it's nice to play without affixes... maybe try this for the low key players as well for a season? I think the affixes are better now than what they used to be but would still prefer no affix at all and let us just play the dungeons (there is enough shit to deal with anyway).
Problem is; the good BFA dungeons have all been back. We are down to Shrine (which I loved, but dps probably don't), Kings Rest which would require astronomical amounts of tuning, Temple of Sethraliss and Tol Dagor. Y-I-K-E-S. Junkyard would be better though, or I personally wouldn't mind Waycrest again, WM is one of the best dungeons ever made imo.
Mobs for the cart should Jsut come in waves or something instead of being out there on the sides and you just fuel the cart up and deal e it h waves of mobs while maintaining the light
Remove the Timer or Key drop or Remove Bonus rewards for faster Times. Detox m+. Add a Challange Mode for People who like the suffering and flaming, no extra rewards.
i do vote for halls of ato,ment, was quite nice dungeon, felt good
when i first played Darkflame cleft i hated it, and i still hate it. My eyes are not made for so much darkness. People will just play with gamma settings for this crap dungeon. Else i felt like playing blind
sorry guys blizzard is doing more important stuff. for example design the next shopmount and discussing whynit should cost atleast 500$
Workshop wasn't even that hated?
They were never going to add Halls of Atonement when Priority of The Sacred Flames is already such an open dungeon. It's to provent an uncapped AoE meta if anything.
Ough nough, the dreaded uncapped AoE meta, people get to do some damage in a couple pulls in a couple dungeons. The absolute horror!
Oh no a meta where people have more fun!? 😮 so horrible!
That’s THREE seasons Workshop has been featured in… this is just lazy.
And sorry guys, Workshop during S4 SL was awful. I had awful memories pugging these at 23-24 key levels. Not looking forward to this shit again…
I'm never tanking Darkflame Cleft
You guys try to have fun in S2 💨 ✌️ 😎
im pretty bummed about this dungeon pool. ToP is easily my most hated dungeon maybe all time.
If they actually make tanks feel TANKY again and not constantly thinking OH SH*T OH SH*T every pull. And stop making healers the answer for every mechanic and affix. Then more people would play those roles. 2 things we absolutely need to have a healthy M+ scene.
Tanking is pretty easy if you just pop a defensive BEFORE pulling a group lmao
@@RPGeekvery true.
Am I the only one who is afraid of priory dungeon and the mobs damage? The consecration that the mobs cast are hard hitting spells
It's crazy. Im am convinced that it doesn't matter at all which dungeon pool would come. People would still cry about it.
Workshop returns bc of the Goblin Patch
Blizzard have fallen into the trap of making M+ and raids for the chosen few and not the masses. If they continue to make content that is aimed at the top1% then it won't end up very well. I'm not saying that everything should be ultra casual but they certainly need to look at the complexity of certain dungeons and raid bosses for pug groups. The dungeon choices for S2 just don't make sense either. It's like they have 100 choices but their idea is "let's just take the hardest ones to complete for the 1% club", this reasoning drives meta groups.
Workforce shortage?? Because we are already using dungeons that are already re-used?!?!
The mystery of season 2 had me pretty excited. I’m no longer that excited for it. Oh boy
I'm a huge fan of theater of pain, motherlode is ok. but i hated all mechagons. I would happily take shrine of the storms any day.
im one of the 4 people that liked theater of pain and i mained tank in SL s1
Everyone wants to see Maw of Souls, make it happen.
Yeah I just want some way to balance out classes a bit. ST damage in raid is very well balanced, but aoe and utility definitely not. even trying to do weekly +10's as a windwalker for a shot at mythic loot was miserably slow and eventually i gave up. Im in a guild thats AOTC and maybe kills a few mythic bosses, and i love playing withthem, but only a small few enjoy m+ so i have to pug them.
WW and monk in general got really good utility for m+.
Be careful what you wish for
Cinderbrew Meadery: A-Tank overpulls or dps facepullls, group wipes and gets farmed, key is bricked. B- Dungeon is super linear. C- the slows will feel terrible without a bunch of paladins. D- the pelter mobs will farm pugs.
Darkflame Cleft: All around just terrible mobs and RP. Straight line.
Rookery: Straight line, very boring.
Priory: way too many casters, some routing choice.
Workshop: one of the best dungeons ever made, to balance the 4 horrible TWW dgs of this season.
Motherlode: lots of routing choices, great bosses.
ToP: some routing choices, some good and some bad bosses.
The biggest issue: lack of a tank cheat death trinket.
the slows are kickable
@@berndbulle5214 Yeah, pugs are well known for not missing kicks XD
Workshop is coming back because it is a goblin themed season /shrug
Workshop is gnome
At this point just make the group 6 or 7, so we can put more dps in
yea add more toxic shitters to the group, that will fix it
Flexible, dungeons would be cool
maw of souls hasnt seen the light of day, why for the love of god we some of those AMOMINATIONS of a dungeon instead of MoS..
I got theatre of pain I’m happy
Them putting workshop and ToP back in is just laziness on their part imo. Tbf it does take some time to take a dungeon from old and convert it into m+ but thats not our problem it's theirs. Stop being lazy blizzard. I wasnt there for the first round so im excited.workshop
I think that thé gearing from m+ has to be looked on too. Asi an only m+ player I am only doing the weekly for thé vault waiting to get my gear so I can push a bit as now it is inefficient. At least make thé myth vault from 8s as it was before.. Doing 10 on all my alts Is boring and zimě consuming 🙂
I only pug because I’m time poor. I won’t be playing s2 [or ably because s1 has been so painful. This will be first time ever I haven’t around 3.5k io or the equivalent which will probs be around 3k this season. Guile has killed the subcut of people just below title range.
Workshop is a “mech-ish” dungeon to fit the “theme” not a fan of it either but shrine of storm wouldn’t fit it. It’s all theme based.
Dragonflight: Season 1 - random island location - Season 2, underground location
TWW: COPY-PASTE
I'd love some burning crusade mythic plus
100% this
Really nice with a brand new dungeon! Awesome.. But then ,,,, 100% agree with you. Jeez we hope that the DC mine cart "RP" is going to be removed! -Why Workshop Again!? And again, agree 100%, where is HOA instead of TOP. they bring back those ppl dont like, Kinda have that feeling with multiple changes!! like Mist now? Defenders in maze charging knocking back ranges -.- Its nothing but running, avoid, get silenced, get knocked, move some more.... Blizzard dont want ppl play ranged or the game?
workshop (again) is giga F