It's van for for a garage with a AC. Because he's thermally bridged the floor with aluminum, 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS, to the skin of a van. The majority of the subfloor should only be Polyiso 0.04 W (m K) or XPS. The heavy stuff (batteries/water) should insulated from the skin with Fiber-reinforced plastic 0.3 (m K) or Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K) to reduce thermal bridging. Never use aluminum 215 W/(m K) against the skin of the van.
@@dmay3391 I think you might be obsessed with thermal bridging, lol. I think an important thing to consider, rather than speaking in absolutes, is whether you expect to be in extreme climates for extended periods, and let that be your guide.
Just as long as you don't follow his advice of putting aluminum which is one of the best thermal conductors in contact with the skin of the van. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. The skin of the van can reach 155F, depending on the color, when it's 95F outside. This will be conducted to the skin floor, then conducted to the aluminum bars, then into the van. There is no reason for aluminum support for a sub flooring in a van, you're going to be driving a 3000lb car on it.
@@dmay3391 Underneath the van is the coolest part - always in the shade. Maybe on hard asphalt parking lots its hot, but not for long since you make shade while the van sits. So while you have a theoretical point, there are some variables at play here: 1. The top and sides of van are exposed to sunlight and heat up. The underneath is fairly cool. Why would the floor conduct heat thru the tubing upwards into the interior if it remains cool below it? 2. Even if it did initially, it will cool off in the shade soon. 3. Where the aluminum tubing in the floor meets the sides of the van could be insulated with a rubber thermal break in-between, same as the 80/20 carcass on top. 4. The aluminum tubing is encased in Polyiso foam which does not transfer heat side to side horizontally. The heat can only go upwards but here we have heavy mass vinyl, a plywood subfloor, and a finish floor. 5. The Loctite PL Marine Fast Cure Adhesive Sealant is used to glue the aluminum tubing to the metal floor. So it is not metal to metal like you said, but there is a layer in between them - of this thick silicone/industrial type marine glue. I looked up the TDS on this but could not find anything about thermal properties. However, there is a layer between the two metals. 6. You have an insulating layer of air between horizontal aluminum tubing and vertical ribs of metal van floor which would keep the air circulating under the floor cooling it down further. I think this floor was well thought out. Reasons to have the aluminum subfloor grid: It creates a sunken space for the water tanks to sit firmly in place. It creates the ability to lower the shower pan for the bathroom to get better drainage, sloping, and head room. It creates the ability to hold polyiso foam boards in place. It takes the weight of the structural bridges that hold the super heavy batteries, inverter, water heater, etc and distribute the weight better without merely a wood subfloor to take the enormous weight. Weight distribution. That is what it is about. And structural integrity.
On the adhesive that secures the aluminum tubing to the factory van floor, the most important quality needed is not how much weight the adhesive can hold in shear or how well it holds up to impacts but rather that it cures with adequate flexibility. In a van such as the Promaster, which is unit-body construction unless you buy a 'chassis cab', the floor WILL move in torsion some amount. Inflexible adhesive will eventually tear loose from either the factory floor or aluminum tube. The good news? Cured PLMarine has ample give, being engineered for use in boat construction and boats twist a lot more than most people think.
"On the adhesive that secures the aluminum tubing to the factory van floor" *Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. Only a moron would use bars of it on the flooring. Thermal conductivity:* Aluminum 215 W/(m K) Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K) Polyiso 0.04 W (m K)
@@dmay3391 You are absolutely right about your facts! However, you did not take a lot of other factors into account. Read my comment below. This van builder is hardly a 'moron'. He is one of the smartest people I've never had the pleasure of meeting. You pounced on one issue that you think is a flaw, but in reality it is not. There is a reason every single component exists on this van. No more no less. Exactly right. Ask yourself why someone like George, who thinks about a van build like a Grand Chessmaster does for a chess game, would not have thought about something as obvious as aluminum conductivity on the floor, especially as he mentioned in this video that he uses rubber thermal breaks with every point where the 80/20 touches the van sides. Why?
@@lass-inangeles7564 "uses rubber thermal breaks with every point where the 80/20 touches the van sides. Why?" *You would need 1 inch of polyiso between the aluminum and the steel body to insulated it. One milometer of rubber or glue is 8 inches too thin to insulated. Or you could just use anything other than the mostly highly conductive materials like aluminum. Perhaps wood? Perhaps not attached aluminum to the van body in the first place?*
Master class is being uninformed. Aluminum is one the best thermal conductors, the heat and cold of the skin will contact to the absurd aluminum rails. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS.
@@kellyb5980 join the crowed. But everything looks so pretty. LOL. And sounds so rational. What do I know. I was married 43 years to a union master electrican who said he was always right, and everyone else was always wrong.
@@HumbleRoad thank you, I’m progressing from the beginning, chronologically, & …. You have a gazillion videos, which the good news… Sam Van, huh. I’ll spy on where it lands in the order… Thank you again George
George, George, George, you’re killing me here. Half of me absolutely adores your attention to detail and your competency, but my other half wonders how your lovely wife deals with those self same virtues that so often can be a bear to live with. 😂 My husband disappears the moment I start any project around the house, dropping in only long enough to offer up a latte bribe periodically. Lol😘🥰
" your competency" *It's incompetent to suggest thermal bridging aluminum, 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS, to the skin of a van that's hotter or colder than the outside temperature.* *Never use: Aluminum 215 W/(m K). When you can use Polyiso 0.04 W (m K), Fibre-reinforced plastic 0.3 (m K) or Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K)*
Always disappointed with uninformed presenters pretending to know what they're talking about. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. The heat and cold on the skin of the van will be conducted inside the van through those aluminum bars. Never use aluminum in contact with the outer shell.
D May , you could always just not watch his videos if you’re disappointed. I can’t seem to find your videos where you show how much you know what you’re talking about. Humble road is one of the best creators and original minds in van building right now, and until I see something better I’ll stick with him.
You’re thinking like an aircraft builder, every metal component to main stucture attachment is bonded for precisely the reasons you mentioned, very good.
I am trying to figure out how to bond 80/20 to my fiberglass body van (even though it has a metal roll cage frame, not much metal at all in my van). I will keep this in mind, though.
It's pretty simple; the 8020 must be in contact with bare chassis metal. It should be as simple as a mounting bolt. A RIV-Nut in a drilled hole will work as well.
@@HumbleRoad So there is no need to bond the aluminum square tubing sitting across the high ridges of the floor, even with the glue sitting between the tube and metal? I noticed that you didn't address the floor aluminum-- only the 8020.
My weekly dose of Art by VanBuild is back. Yesssss. George, I asked the Vagabonds when you guys are getting your dogs together for us to hang out on film? Your dog's name is Mitzi, no? The schnauzer?
So excited to see another Humble Road build. It’s looking fantastic already. I love the stair steps to the roof created with the slides, more ingenious engineering. LOVE the blanket for van 01. Perfect color coordination with the van. 🎨My Sunday’s are back on track again lol. 👍🏽🚐
It appears that you have another work of art in the making, I like it! I originally intended to install a second alternator as you have done. Instead, to save a small bucket of money, I installed a Sterling DC/DC charger and I couldn't be happier with its performance. I put in the 30A, LPCU 1230 model mainly to stay within MB builders recommendations of never drawing more then 30amps from the stock charging system. I was worried that 30A charge rate would not be adequate, but boy was I wrong. It is a very ingenious system and I saved a ton since all that is needed is several #10 wires to do the simple hook ups. I ordered our sprinter with the optional "governor control" and I can set the idle to around 1500 RPM's and do a quick battery charge in less then 15 minutes while parked or while waiting for the sun to hit the solar panels. Its worth taking a look.
Thanks John! This is a sticking point with me, I do not like where that second alternator is positioned in the Promaster. Might as well be a cow catcher...
I'd like to pick your brain on this DC/DC charger, if you don't mind. Looks like costs and installation are favorable as compared to a second alternator. And you have been satisfied with the lesser charging ability overall? Given your daily usage and travel style, the 30 amps plus solar have been enough to keep you at a decent SOC?
Its been a few years since install but I think I paid around $280 for the unit. I installed the BB1230 and not the LPCU unit as I had stated above. I don't recall the estimated install price for a second heavy duty alternator and mounting system, but $2500 rings a bell with me? Do you have any numbers on the install prices for the MB Sprinter off hand? There are two reasons I went with the Sterling DC/DC unit. I installed two AGM deep cycle 6 volt batteries as my house batteries and the manufacture recommended a max input charging rate of 30 amps. MB recommends drawing no more then 30amps from the stock system so the Sterling 30 amp charging rate was a perfect fit. One of the technicians at the Mercedes business confirmed the recommendations "do not draw more then 30amps from the stock system" and stated that replacing a burned up wiring harness was going to cost in the $12,000 range not including install. The advantage of a separate alternator is the larger input rates if you need it and your system can absorb it. The weak link in charging my house batteries is my solar system even with over 500 watts of panels. I can top of my batteries in around 2 hours on a bright sunny day. Not so good in the winter or overcast or rainy conditions. Normal recharge time while driving and charging with the DC/DC unit is usually less then an hour and around 2 hours plus to reach float mode. We only have the 12V fridge and lights so we don't have a lot of demand. But from what I have seen so far, I think we could double or even triple our use load and the unit would meet my charging needs.
I found this video from Sterling and they give some good information about the capabilities of the 60amp and 30amp units. th-cam.com/video/OudqpMxrel0/w-d-xo.html
Great start, George! Always love seeing your work and watching you turn innovative ideas into well-executed craftsmanship! “Hey, Bezos, get to work! We want to see more awesome videos!”
Great build there,George. I have looked and looked for 3full weeks:looking for where you demonstrated how you afixed the plywood to the side walls , most of all the composhion of the fastiners ,I have another ? later. T/U
Newly subscribed! I’ve been following van builders for years and you’ve quickly became my favorite. I love your explanations for everything. Including match the blanket colors to the van. Check!
I can’t visualize how you are holding the bikes in place, but knowing you it will work just fine. However, if you are looking for ideas, Rocky Mounts makes a great device for this purpose
Thanks for the update--fun to see what has been learned and what is now being learned, your point about a modular approach is being well played out through a different design using the same principles as 01. Great to see.
I just discovered your channel.. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge..my problem is I'm working with a Toyota Tundra crew max and have transfer what you are showing.. To work on my needs.. I found wood and steel to be to heavy and bulky for what I want..
Hi this is all fascinating to watch, is there a video or link on how the aluminium extrusions are assembled and more importantly insulated from shorting? Thanks
ross cavallaro I was able to pick up 170 linear meters of 4040 plus 140 brackets with hardware for $900aud from an office tear down. You can find a lot of bits and pieces on Facebook market place. I start my med wheel base 4x4 sprinter build in one month 😃 i spent almost a full day at bunnings figuring out the best way to join the profile. I’m curious how George fixed the profile bridges to the plywood floor. Looked like there were socket head cap screw bolts but they would need a receiving nut in the plywood as they don’t have a self tapping thread 🤔
Great stuff George. I'm planning out my second Sprinter Build. Curious why you run a separate closed glycol system for the Isotemp water heater? Seems like a lot of redundant parts.....Pump, expansion tank, heat exchanger when you could just tap into the heater hose.....and add a couple ball valves.
@@HumbleRoad Wouldn't installing a heat exchanger in the engine compartment and taping into the coolant lines warrant the same claim of "impeding on related warranty claims"? Is the heat exchanger that's being placed in the engine compartment rated at the same GPM as say the water pump itself.
@@gstephenson7391 the heat exchanger mounted up front extends the engine coolant route by 7 inches. There isn’t a judge in the court that would rule that to be detrimental. Twenty feet rearward and then twenty feet back? Yes, then we have a horse race. Plus, with the two systems isolated from one another, a failure on the house side does not render the van inoperable.
Really enjoyed the genius ideas! Lots of thought, creativity and probleming solving! But curious.. wonder if it can be done.. build bench seating with either grooves that hook onto the floor when in transit.. possibly with flip down chair seating.. possibly with padded seat covers for seating yet if extra table space needed, take the seat cover off--the removable seat padding can be secured with some kind of wrap around Velcro strap and design/fabric similar to designer curtain tiebacks? The flexible seating/table can easily be used for extra guests or outside the van..??
Would you ever consider doing a box truck conversion? I can not do now, but love your work and I think a more viable long term option for me would be a box truck conversion.
Your attention to detail is outstanding George! You are definitely building our van. Now I just have to talk my husband into it...LOL! Looking forward to seeing the finished product! A big shout out from Brooklyn NY!
George, I am student of the Humble design school. Curious how you are attaching structural bridges and bed system to the van floor? From careful video watching over several episodes at the hardware and placement, it looks like cap-head screws into the subfloor. I imagine where you are able, you screw into the aluminum tubing. What about everywhere else? I know you are a fan of making everything removable and replaceable . Are you using a tap to create threads in both the wood and aluminum? You are not penetrating the van floor are you? I appreciate the way think about a design problem and then are able to make such entertaining and educational videos for us 1st timers out there. Big thanks from a fellow Pizano.
Be careful lifting those heavy panels. Christopher Smith on the Motor 1 site covered your Humble B 01 effort and titled the story '60-Year-Old Man Builds Incredible Camper Van With Giant Shower'. He must be angling for a job at AARP because I struggle to understand why the story had to lead with your age. Did he not get the memo that 60 is the new 40 (if you keep your brain active and drink good wine regularly)? 🤗
Dane Davenport yes these tanks are very well insulated. You should have hot water the next day and you don’t have to drive very long to get to temperature.
I've lucked out with you posting this video just as I begin my own Promaster build. Would you help me out by showing me how you ground the 80/20 bridges? This is awesome work.
Looking at the hardware in the video it does not look like you used the standard, off the shelf T-slot fasteners. Why and what size bolt and nut combinations did you use for the 1.5 and 1 inch profiles. It must have taken quite a bit of time to find alternatives that fit.
Good eye Nate! I made my own corner brackets and used a combination of carriage bolts and hex. I no longer make my own brackets. It’s not worth the time. And unless you drill those holes perfectly, you will have problems later on when alignment matters.
I am loving this garage. My question: Do you think the 1.5 80/20 was necessary for the batteries bridge? Just curious if you used the deflection calculator on 80/20's website or if you are like me and feel its just better to over do it than under do it?
When you say the 80-20 gets grounded anywhere it connects with metal in the van, how do you accomplish that? I know you add heavy mass vinyl as the thermal break, but what do you do to ground?
your 14 min video took me 1.5 hours to view. I have to rewind many times in order to update the bill of material of my dream R V. ( i am at thinking stag)
I would have you measure for the dimensions of a HP Velotechnik Scorpion.fs recumbent trike WITH SEAT REMOVED. And build a bed platform higher than that. The elderly need to ride recumbent trikes. Not bikes. Battery assist trikes are the bomb!
What are your thoughts about heat conduction from the van body through all the aluminum extrusions? Doesn't this significantly reduce the insulation's effectiveness? Would it better to sandwich a piece of XPS between the van body and extrusions?
Great video, thanks for all the detail! One question on your last comment. How are you bonding the 8020 to the chassis? For example, the water and electric boxes you've built. Do you mean they need to be touching the metal of the floor or wall? Or something more?
A proper connection is bare metal on the chassis. Just touching the paint is not a connection. Make sure you have a good tight connection between the 8020 and bare metal on the chassis. You could also search grounding strap.
Humble Road got it, thanks for the quick reply! Presumably then the grounding is most likely to need to be touching the walls if the 8020 is sitting on the flooring, unless I’m going through the floor to a tie-down anyway?
@@HumbleRoad You talk about using rubber for a thermal break on the wall, but you don't do that with the other frames on the floor? I would think the concern of thermal transfer would be the same on both surfaces?
@@scottweikert5189 The floor joists have a healthy dollop of adhesive which acts as a thermal break of sorts. You have to weigh your priorities and there is always an equal and opposite reaction for every decision you make in a van build. I chose the safety of adhesion during a collision over thermal efficiency.
@@HumbleRoad Thank you for the reply! That's the direction I'm leaning as well with a future project. I'm considering mounting 80/20 rails lengthwise to the floor in the proper spots, building up the subfloor so everything is flush (probably 1.5" rails and subfloor) and then mounting cabinet frames/etc. The worry I have is the thermal conductivity with all the 80/20 elsewhere all working together to pass in colder temperatures drawn in from the mounting rail via the van floor. I wonder if it wouldn't be an idea to use the rubber break between the floor rails and the other frames... I'm also curious how you attach your 80/20, through the rubber, to your van walls; are you using rivnuts and drilling bolt holes through the rails? Or just putting in carriage bolts through holes in the ribs and putting in nuts by reaching in behind?
Do you have measurements for 80/20 you ordered for a promaster bed build? You fastened it to the sides or laid them on top? How did you maintain the thermal break?
He says late in the video he uses a layer of rubber in between the 80/20 and the van wall. I'm curious about the thickness of the rubber he uses. Also curious how he's mounting to the wall - rivnuts in the wall and drilling through the center of the 80/20 to run a bolt all the way through?
@@HumbleRoad Thanks for the reply, I mean the aluminum tubing what company did you purchase the hardware from? By the way love your work and the videos are very entertaining. Thanks for doing them.
Humble Road (George), are you screwing/bolting the 80/20 bridges to the subfloor? From looking at the videos, it seems like you are but I wanted to see. If you're screwing them, did you line them up with the aluminum joists in the subfloor or are you just going into the birch? What screws and Length did you use? Thanks!
Yes, all 8020 modules get screwed to the floor. Where they hit a joist I use a wood to metal tapper. If no joist underneath, then I only go in as far as the birch.
Fine work George What items are you using to get the heat from the motor to the “centralheating” system in the Van You cannot just use all kind og metal as they in some cases can damage eachother Regards Ole
Any plans in creating a Bill of Material for sub-assemblies (i.e. garage/bed, water system, power system, closet, restroom, etc.) and sell them? I am planning on a Promaster soon. You are the best builder in TH-cam. I am wondering usual build prices on average.
@@HumbleRoad but then its on the wrong side of the insulation ? Please I 100 % respect your work and look forward to every video you post, In the UK it gets cold and keeping things warm is a must. I think if it was me I would of used wood beside the insulation not Ally ?
David_1 , I too came to that conclusion based only upon my own experience with aluminum heat conduction in a cold climate structure. However, I think I remember George saying something about avoiding rot by using aluminum. That would explain the aluminum ribs.
@@tonynotstated695 It seems so unfair of me to pick at Georges work and so few of us could even come close to achieving. I was sort of hopping for justification :(
@@HumbleRoad 64" from cab to back doors, that's only 5'3", that seems incorrect? I know the Ram website states 160", but I wasn't sure if that was the "buildable" length or total length.
A couple of folks have asked this, but I don't see an answer, so I'll bring it up again. Doesn't bonding the 80/20 frames to the body/chassis, by definition, circumvent the thermal breaks? Is this just a compromise that has to be made?
@@HumbleRoad Right, I get that. But don't you, at some point, have to breach the thermal break to electrically bond the 80/20 to the frame? Or am I not understanding bonding?
Yes, you do "breach" the thermal break with your bonding strap or bolt. But, every vehicle has breaches. You cannot worry about a couple of bolts here and there, you'll drive yourself crazy!
I have enjoyed watching your channel and your approach to van building. I am planning a Promaster build very similar to this layout. I certainly understand the pros of building structures with 80/20, but am also sure it could be built lower cost with wood. My question is: What is the approximate cost of the 80/20 materials inside this van? Thanks, and keep doing what you do.
Just an FYI going forward. I know you are a guy that is always looking for options. For mountain bikes it wise to give yourself a few more inches because the old ones sometimes break and people buy new ones that don't have the same specifications.
Best mattress ever. My memory foam offgassed and I got 100% organic cotton that also had chemicals that offgassed. The foam sweats and condensates, even with holes drilled in the boards below. But the very best, extremely well ventilated mattress was a regular box springs with big metal coils. We cut it to size and closed the ends back up and not only is it amazingly comfy like a house, there’s no offgassing, because the other ones made me sick. It’s fine if you aren’t sensitive to that stuff, but the air that travels thru this mattress keeps everything fresh and dry no matter what. It’s never been done, so we did a DIY on how to make the best bed mattress ever. th-cam.com/video/Png_6f2GH68/w-d-xo.html
ISN'T THE ENGINE A DIESEL? Thinking about how much heat u can gain from the Vans engine in the winter.. Diesel doesn't get hot, problem with heating windscreen and drivers cabin. That Is why all diesel cars and especially Vans got separat Webasto here in Europe.
This Promaster is a gasoline van. Has a Webasto air heater installed under the fridge. And we make hot water with a closed loop glycol system stealing engine heat through a heat exchanger.
@@HumbleRoad thanks for answer, I missed it that it was run by gasoline. It's engine runs hotter. It will be interesting to see the wend results. Its a smart setup.
I've been watching yours vedios for a little while now and you get so detailed, rationalized and exhausted describing everything you do. I feel like I'm watching the new Felex Unger Show. LOL. Sometimes the passion in your voice, and the redness in your face, makes me feel like your going to have a stroke. Calm down. We can get the point of your opinion and details without you hurting yourself. Please.
Why the aluminum square tubing in the floor? Aluminum is a great thermal conductor. Unless there is some other reason you need tubing, why not an appropriate square wood for a better thermal break....?
In my opinion, the benefits of the aluminum floor joists outweigh the drawbacks. They are not organic, so they are impervious to moisture, mold, mildew, insects and rot. Structurally, inch for inch and pound for pound, they are vastly stronger than wood or structural foam boards. As for the thermal bridging; there is a healthy dollop of marine adhesive in the contact point between the joist and the floor. I would stretch the theory a bit to say there is some small amount of thermal break in there. And the radiation of the bridging is isolated to the one inch of aluminum, which is then broken by the plywood.
In my opinion, the benefits of the aluminum floor joists outweigh the drawbacks. They are not organic, so they are impervious to moisture, mold, mildew, insects and rot. Structurally, inch for inch and pound for pound, they are vastly stronger than wood or structural foam boards. As for the thermal bridging; there is a healthy dollop of marine adhesive in the contact point between the joist and the floor. I would stretch the theory a bit to say there is some small amount of thermal break in there. And the radiation of the bridging is isolated to the one inch of aluminum, which is then broken by the plywood.
I don't understand why you would add an aluminum frame between the van floor and the plywood floor. That rigid foam on it's own can support a huge amount of weight when there is a plywood skin over it. The aluminum just adds weight and reduces the insulation.
Think about the transfer of weight from the 165 pound battery and all the other modules (galley with appliances and coriander countertop). Then imagine all that bouncing over speed bumps, pot holes and dirt roads. The aluminum floor joists are all placed where they accept the weight of the module above and transfer that stress to the floor of the van. I would think the foam by itself would cause bellies, dings and depressions, causing the components to shift off axis.
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One of the best shows on youtube.
Now THIS is a nomad's van, and I love that it's not a Mercedes! Beautiful.
The Promaster interiors look like there is MORE space (boxier design) to the cargo area !!
@@ricks.1318 It's wider, I'm not sure if it's longer or taller.
It's wider, but shorter and not as high as a Sprinter.
It's van for for a garage with a AC. Because he's thermally bridged the floor with aluminum, 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS, to the skin of a van.
The majority of the subfloor should only be Polyiso 0.04 W (m K) or XPS. The heavy stuff (batteries/water) should insulated from the skin with Fiber-reinforced plastic 0.3 (m K)
or Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K) to reduce thermal bridging. Never use aluminum 215 W/(m K) against the skin of the van.
@@dmay3391 I think you might be obsessed with thermal bridging, lol. I think an important thing to consider, rather than speaking in absolutes, is whether you expect to be in extreme climates for extended periods, and let that be your guide.
Quality and Information, great as usual George. Pull-out storage that doubles as roof access, GENIOUS!!!
Our van is looking great George! What a collaboration!
It's just so great seeing sincerely nice people sharing their passions and ultimately achieving their well thought out goals together! "Carey" on!!
Carey On Vagabond looking great!!!
Ricky Breaux Thanks!
Just as long as you don't follow his advice of putting aluminum which is one of the best thermal conductors in contact with the skin of the van. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. The skin of the van can reach 155F, depending on the color, when it's 95F outside. This will be conducted to the skin floor, then conducted to the aluminum bars, then into the van. There is no reason for aluminum support for a sub flooring in a van, you're going to be driving a 3000lb car on it.
@@dmay3391 Underneath the van is the coolest part - always in the shade. Maybe on hard asphalt parking lots its hot, but not for long since you make shade while the van sits. So while you have a theoretical point, there are some variables at play here:
1. The top and sides of van are exposed to sunlight and heat up. The underneath is fairly cool. Why would the floor conduct heat thru the tubing upwards into the interior if it remains cool below it?
2. Even if it did initially, it will cool off in the shade soon.
3. Where the aluminum tubing in the floor meets the sides of the van could be insulated with a rubber thermal break in-between, same as the 80/20 carcass on top.
4. The aluminum tubing is encased in Polyiso foam which does not transfer heat side to side horizontally. The heat can only go upwards but here we have heavy mass vinyl, a plywood subfloor, and a finish floor.
5. The Loctite PL Marine Fast Cure Adhesive Sealant is used to glue the aluminum tubing to the metal floor. So it is not metal to metal like you said, but there is a layer in between them - of this thick silicone/industrial type marine glue. I looked up the TDS on this but could not find anything about thermal properties. However, there is a layer between the two metals.
6. You have an insulating layer of air between horizontal aluminum tubing and vertical ribs of metal van floor which would keep the air circulating under the floor cooling it down further. I think this floor was well thought out.
Reasons to have the aluminum subfloor grid:
It creates a sunken space for the water tanks to sit firmly in place.
It creates the ability to lower the shower pan for the bathroom to get better drainage, sloping, and head room.
It creates the ability to hold polyiso foam boards in place.
It takes the weight of the structural bridges that hold the super heavy batteries, inverter, water heater, etc and distribute the weight better without merely a wood subfloor to take the enormous weight. Weight distribution. That is what it is about. And structural integrity.
This is the best build I’ve seen. So spartan but effective. And the fold out bed is genius.
Gotta love sliders. It's such an obvious way to make the space usable.
On the adhesive that secures the aluminum tubing to the factory van floor, the most important quality needed is not how much weight the adhesive can hold in shear or how well it holds up to impacts but rather that it cures with adequate flexibility. In a van such as the Promaster, which is unit-body construction unless you buy a 'chassis cab', the floor WILL move in torsion some amount. Inflexible adhesive will eventually tear loose from either the factory floor or aluminum tube.
The good news? Cured PLMarine has ample give, being engineered for use in boat construction and boats twist a lot more than most people think.
James gill you took the words right out of my mouth!
"On the adhesive that secures the aluminum tubing to the factory van floor"
*Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. Only a moron would use bars of it on the flooring. Thermal conductivity:*
Aluminum 215 W/(m K)
Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K)
Polyiso 0.04 W (m K)
@@dmay3391 Someone's Salty!! Gezz
@@dmay3391 You are absolutely right about your facts! However, you did not take a lot of other factors into account. Read my comment below. This van builder is hardly a 'moron'. He is one of the smartest people I've never had the pleasure of meeting. You pounced on one issue that you think is a flaw, but in reality it is not. There is a reason every single component exists on this van. No more no less. Exactly right. Ask yourself why someone like George, who thinks about a van build like a Grand Chessmaster does for a chess game, would not have thought about something as obvious as aluminum conductivity on the floor, especially as he mentioned in this video that he uses rubber thermal breaks with every point where the 80/20 touches the van sides. Why?
@@lass-inangeles7564 "uses rubber thermal breaks with every point where the 80/20 touches the van sides. Why?"
*You would need 1 inch of polyiso between the aluminum and the steel body to insulated it. One milometer of rubber or glue is 8 inches too thin to insulated. Or you could just use anything other than the mostly highly conductive materials like aluminum. Perhaps wood? Perhaps not attached aluminum to the van body in the first place?*
Wow it’s like a Masters class on van building!
Master class is being uninformed. Aluminum is one the best thermal conductors, the heat and cold of the skin will contact to the absurd aluminum rails. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS.
Okay way over my head- not an Engineer, nor am I a builder so I can’t speak to anything you just said. Have a great day!
@@kellyb5980 join the crowed. But everything looks so pretty. LOL. And sounds so rational. What do I know. I was married 43 years to a union master electrican who said he was always right, and everyone else was always wrong.
It’s nice to see that this van will have a different floor plan. I really like the garage. Now I’ll try to be patient waiting for the next video 😊
Finally, the ProMaster….
Thank you,
Es... I've done two Promaster builds. Search Humble Road, Sam van.
@@HumbleRoad thank you, I’m progressing from the beginning, chronologically, & …. You have a gazillion videos, which the good news…
Sam Van, huh. I’ll spy on where it lands in the order…
Thank you again George
Great point on grounding all the 8020 frames for electrical safety
George, George, George, you’re killing me here. Half of me absolutely adores your attention to detail and your competency, but my other half wonders how your lovely wife deals with those self same virtues that so often can be a bear to live with. 😂 My husband disappears the moment I start any project around the house, dropping in only long enough to offer up a latte bribe periodically. Lol😘🥰
We've been working as a team and also butting heads since we were 16 years old!
Women LOVE conscientiousness.
" your competency"
*It's incompetent to suggest thermal bridging aluminum, 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS, to the skin of a van that's hotter or colder than the outside temperature.*
*Never use: Aluminum 215 W/(m K). When you can use Polyiso 0.04 W (m K), Fibre-reinforced plastic 0.3 (m K)
or Stainless Steel 17 W/(m K)*
Always gives me a thrill to see you put up a video ... fun to see what you’re up to. 😋
Always disappointed with uninformed presenters pretending to know what they're talking about. Aluminum is 5375 more conductive than polyiso and XPS. The heat and cold on the skin of the van will be conducted inside the van through those aluminum bars. Never use aluminum in contact with the outer shell.
He put a black lining
D May , you could always just not watch his videos if you’re disappointed. I can’t seem to find your videos where you show how much you know what you’re talking about. Humble road is one of the best creators and original minds in van building right now, and until I see something better I’ll stick with him.
Steve Mac Did This I love George and all he does yep yep yep
love your detailing
Great video and explanations. This really helps with mine and anyone else who plans to build in this way.
GEORGE...I ❤️ the way your 🧠 brain thinks...looking AWESOME👍
You are the Sinatra of #VanLife. I figured it out roughly 10 days ago, I forget to mention this.
OMG! I'm not worthy! But I accept! #LOVESINATRA
George says, "It's going to be done MYYYYYYYY WAYYYYYYYY" ... I hear that said in George's best Sinatra voice.
You’re thinking like an aircraft builder, every metal component to main stucture attachment is bonded for precisely the reasons you mentioned, very good.
I am trying to figure out how to bond 80/20 to my fiberglass body van (even though it has a metal roll cage frame, not much metal at all in my van). I will keep this in mind, though.
Roobah bonding straps
It's pretty simple; the 8020 must be in contact with bare chassis metal. It should be as simple as a mounting bolt. A RIV-Nut in a drilled hole will work as well.
@@HumbleRoad So there is no need to bond the aluminum square tubing sitting across the high ridges of the floor, even with the glue sitting between the tube and metal? I noticed that you didn't address the floor aluminum-- only the 8020.
cesalt you don’t come in contact with the square tubing under the floor. If a screw passes into it from the 8020, then it has a path to ground.
Attention to detail should definitely be The Humble Road motto.
Love the final tip. That's one idea I can actually accomplish by myself!
Great build. I like the extruded aluminium tubing you used.
Welcome Back George!!!
My weekly dose of Art by VanBuild is back. Yesssss. George, I asked the Vagabonds when you guys are getting your dogs together for us to hang out on film? Your dog's name is Mitzi, no? The schnauzer?
Barry Dutton Sells Homes Mitzi was a mini schnauzer who lived to 17. Now we have Molly, a standard schnauzer.
So excited to see another Humble Road build. It’s looking fantastic already. I love the stair steps to the roof created with the slides, more ingenious engineering. LOVE the blanket for van 01. Perfect color coordination with the van. 🎨My Sunday’s are back on track again lol. 👍🏽🚐
It does sound like a good idea but what do you do when the drawers have stuff on them and you need to get up on the roof? Move stuff? Every time?
That's when you pull out the telescoping ladder!
@@HumbleRoad LOL. I love you George!
It appears that you have another work of art in the making, I like it! I originally intended to install a second alternator as you have done. Instead, to save a small bucket of money, I installed a Sterling DC/DC charger and I couldn't be happier with its performance. I put in the 30A, LPCU 1230 model mainly to stay within MB builders recommendations of never drawing more then 30amps from the stock charging system. I was worried that 30A charge rate would not be adequate, but boy was I wrong. It is a very ingenious system and I saved a ton since all that is needed is several #10 wires to do the simple hook ups. I ordered our sprinter with the optional "governor control" and I can set the idle to around 1500 RPM's and do a quick battery charge in less then 15 minutes while parked or while waiting for the sun to hit the solar panels. Its worth taking a look.
Thanks John! This is a sticking point with me, I do not like where that second alternator is positioned in the Promaster. Might as well be a cow catcher...
I'd like to pick your brain on this DC/DC charger, if you don't mind. Looks like costs and installation are favorable as compared to a second alternator. And you have been satisfied with the lesser charging ability overall? Given your daily usage and travel style, the 30 amps plus solar have been enough to keep you at a decent SOC?
Its been a few years since install but I think I paid around $280 for the unit. I installed the BB1230 and not the LPCU unit as I had stated above. I don't recall the estimated install price for a second heavy duty alternator and mounting system, but $2500 rings a bell with me? Do you have any numbers on the install prices for the MB Sprinter off hand? There are two reasons I went with the Sterling DC/DC unit. I installed two AGM deep cycle 6 volt batteries as my house batteries and the manufacture recommended a max input charging rate of 30 amps. MB recommends drawing no more then 30amps from the stock system so the Sterling 30 amp charging rate was a perfect fit. One of the technicians at the Mercedes business confirmed the recommendations "do not draw more then 30amps from the stock system" and stated that replacing a burned up wiring harness was going to cost in the $12,000 range not including install. The advantage of a separate alternator is the larger input rates if you need it and your system can absorb it. The weak link in charging my house batteries is my solar system even with over 500 watts of panels. I can top of my batteries in around 2 hours on a bright sunny day. Not so good in the winter or overcast or rainy conditions. Normal recharge time while driving and charging with the DC/DC unit is usually less then an hour and around 2 hours plus to reach float mode. We only have the 12V fridge and lights so we don't have a lot of demand. But from what I have seen so far, I think we could double or even triple our use load and the unit would meet my charging needs.
I found this video from Sterling and they give some good information about the capabilities of the 60amp and 30amp units. th-cam.com/video/OudqpMxrel0/w-d-xo.html
Really like the new opening! ☮️❤️🤗
nicely done, as always..
"Looks like it was built by the Little Rascals" is my new favourite saying.....Thank You Sir
Glad you liked it
Wowwww! Build and looking amazing, beautiful love it! Thank you. 👍👏😍❤️️
Great start, George! Always love seeing your work and watching you turn innovative ideas into well-executed craftsmanship!
“Hey, Bezos, get to work! We want to see more awesome videos!”
Great build there,George. I have looked and looked for 3full weeks:looking for where you demonstrated how you afixed the plywood to the side walls , most of all the composhion of the fastiners ,I have another ? later. T/U
Magnets!
Newly subscribed! I’ve been following van builders for years and you’ve quickly became my favorite. I love your explanations for everything. Including match the blanket colors to the van. Check!
You are a natural teacher, I know nothing about most things needed for a build but when you explain things they make sense, thank you.
I can’t visualize how you are holding the bikes in place, but knowing you it will work just fine. However, if you are looking for ideas, Rocky Mounts makes a great device for this purpose
Thanks for the update--fun to see what has been learned and what is now being learned, your point about a modular approach is being well played out through a different design using the same principles as 01. Great to see.
I just discovered your channel.. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge..my problem is I'm working with a Toyota Tundra crew max and have transfer what you are showing.. To work on my needs.. I found wood and steel to be to heavy and bulky for what I want..
Welcome to Humble Road! Go ahead, now and watch ALL my videos! Go ahead, we’ll wait for you! 😃
Ok, got it matching blankets in van 😉💜
The 2 thumbs down are from homebuilders who cannot do what George can do LOL. Seriously, who would thumbs down Humble Road?? Government scammy bots?
Hi this is all fascinating to watch, is there a video or link on how the aluminium extrusions are assembled and more importantly insulated from shorting? Thanks
Yes, Ross. All your questions can be answered by watching ALL of my videos! 🤗
@@HumbleRoad I am curious because living in australia i was wondering what is available cheaply here that is close to what you have done, thanks
ross cavallaro I was able to pick up 170 linear meters of 4040 plus 140 brackets with hardware for $900aud from an office tear down. You can find a lot of bits and pieces on Facebook market place. I start my med wheel base 4x4 sprinter build in one month 😃 i spent almost a full day at bunnings figuring out the best way to join the profile. I’m curious how George fixed the profile bridges to the plywood floor. Looked like there were socket head cap screw bolts but they would need a receiving nut in the plywood as they don’t have a self tapping thread 🤔
😂 Now George, I think by now all of your viewers know that you are going to continue to beat that 80 20 drum👍
😝
Great stuff George. I'm planning out my second Sprinter Build. Curious why you run a separate closed glycol system for the Isotemp water heater? Seems like a lot of redundant parts.....Pump, expansion tank, heat exchanger when you could just tap into the heater hose.....and add a couple ball valves.
Sending the engine glycol 20 feet south and back creates risk of engine failure. Also might impede on related warranty claims.
@@HumbleRoad Wouldn't installing a heat exchanger in the engine compartment and taping into the coolant lines warrant the same claim of "impeding on related warranty claims"? Is the heat exchanger that's being placed in the engine compartment rated at the same GPM as say the water pump itself.
@@gstephenson7391 the heat exchanger mounted up front extends the engine coolant route by 7 inches. There isn’t a judge in the court that would rule that to be detrimental. Twenty feet rearward and then twenty feet back? Yes, then we have a horse race. Plus, with the two systems isolated from one another, a failure on the house side does not render the van inoperable.
Really enjoyed the genius ideas! Lots of thought, creativity and probleming solving! But curious.. wonder if it can be done.. build bench seating with either grooves that hook onto the floor when in transit.. possibly with flip down chair seating.. possibly with padded seat covers for seating yet if extra table space needed, take the seat cover off--the removable seat padding can be secured with some kind of wrap around Velcro strap and design/fabric similar to designer curtain tiebacks? The flexible seating/table can easily be used for extra guests or outside the van..??
Jenny Eagan of course it can be done!
Try reversing the water system and the refrigeration for the reasons you mentioned. Doing this in my Promaster.
Would you ever consider doing a box truck conversion? I can not do now, but love your work and I think a more viable long term option for me would be a box truck conversion.
Box truck, no. Shuttle bus, yes!
where do you source your 80/20 from? Definitely an expensive build, but if I could find it affordably I would love to build this way
I buy direct from 8020. 8020.net
Your attention to detail is outstanding George! You are definitely building our van. Now I just have to talk my husband into it...LOL! Looking forward to seeing the finished product! A big shout out from Brooklyn NY!
George, I am student of the Humble design school. Curious how you are attaching structural bridges and bed system to the van floor? From careful video watching over several episodes at the hardware and placement, it looks like cap-head screws into the subfloor. I imagine where you are able, you screw into the aluminum tubing. What about everywhere else? I know you are a fan of making everything removable and replaceable . Are you using a tap to create threads in both the wood and aluminum? You are not penetrating the van floor are you? I appreciate the way think about a design problem and then are able to make such entertaining and educational videos for us 1st timers out there. Big thanks from a fellow Pizano.
Plan to have a joist under every point where a module touches the floor. I use wood to metal tappers.
Have you tried a Woodwright lacquer for the wood finishing? Low VOC. (Or is it VOX)
Is there a reason why you did not use heavy mass vinyl on the floor on the promaster? Thanks!
Couldn't afford the 3/8" of thickness
Be careful lifting those heavy panels. Christopher Smith on the Motor 1 site covered your Humble B 01 effort and titled the story '60-Year-Old Man Builds Incredible Camper Van With Giant Shower'. He must be angling for a job at AARP because I struggle to understand why the story had to lead with your age. Did he not get the memo that 60 is the new 40 (if you keep your brain active and drink good wine regularly)? 🤗
60? I was 76 when I converted my Renault Trafic LWB van in 2015. Keeps you young.
With a water system like that, if you drive the entire previous day will the water still be hot in the morning?
Dane Davenport yes these tanks are very well insulated. You should have hot water the next day and you don’t have to drive very long to get to temperature.
I've lucked out with you posting this video just as I begin my own Promaster build. Would you help me out by showing me how you ground the 80/20 bridges? This is awesome work.
When I get to the "mounting stage" you'll see how I do it.
@@HumbleRoad Whoohoo! I'm all in.
You are amazing sir ..... I am so "looking forward" to each and every video ... I'm definitely hooked on your series !!!! Rick S. (Massachusetts)
Looking at the hardware in the video it does not look like you used the standard, off the shelf T-slot fasteners. Why and what size bolt and nut combinations did you use for the 1.5 and 1 inch profiles. It must have taken quite a bit of time to find alternatives that fit.
Good eye Nate! I made my own corner brackets and used a combination of carriage bolts and hex. I no longer make my own brackets. It’s not worth the time. And unless you drill those holes perfectly, you will have problems later on when alignment matters.
I am loving this garage. My question: Do you think the 1.5 80/20 was necessary for the batteries bridge? Just curious if you used the deflection calculator on 80/20's website or if you are like me and feel its just better to over do it than under do it?
The battery is 165lbs. The inverter is 75lbs. In a T-bone collision they are 100,000lbs. Or they might as well be... Go with the 15 series.
Humble Road I see your point. Thanks for the quick reply.
When you say the 80-20 gets grounded anywhere it connects with metal in the van, how do you accomplish that? I know you add heavy mass vinyl as the thermal break, but what do you do to ground?
Either an oversized bolt or a ground strap
Beautiful work as always. Do you use teflon nuts or locktite to keep the bolts tight? My only worry would be them vibrating loose over time...
Thank you Michael. I use split lock washers and locktite. I will have every van come back to the shop once a year to do “The Tighten Up.”
your 14 min video took me 1.5 hours to view. I have to rewind many times in order to update the bill of material of my dream R V. ( i am at thinking stag)
I would have you measure for the dimensions of a HP Velotechnik Scorpion.fs recumbent trike WITH SEAT REMOVED.
And build a bed platform higher than that. The elderly need to ride recumbent trikes. Not bikes. Battery assist trikes are the bomb!
The SportsMobile vans can be insulated for very cold regions.
What is the highest R-value insulation you have used?
To date, my clients have all asked for moderate climate preparations. Nothing too extreme, beyond a freezing night or two.
What are your thoughts about heat conduction from the van body through all the aluminum extrusions? Doesn't this significantly reduce the insulation's effectiveness? Would it better to sandwich a piece of XPS between the van body and extrusions?
Dan wherever the extruded aluminum touches the van chassis, I sandwiched a piece of rubber. Thermal break.
@@HumbleRoad I gotcha. I didn't see. Thanks!
Congratulations.
Looking great.
Where do you purchase the 80/20 from?
8020.net
What do you think about using 80/20 for bed lifts with linear actuation?
Definitely
I wanna see if an lg twinwash can be installed in a van
th-cam.com/video/Kx4K_v0VCPY/w-d-xo.html
F Yes!
Looking good George. Hopefully Dave never wants to change bicycles, as something different might not fit.
GrandMarais Dave accounted for other bike possibilities. The only thing that would be an issue is if he grows taller and needs a taller bike frame.😁
@@CareyOnVagabond Being a rider myself, I would think the "real" issue about new bikes would be Mrs. Vagabond's approval! :-)
#756! Thanks 4 sharing
You're staggeringly creative! Can you please possibly share your source for "no vlc" polyurethane?
Thank you Jeremy. The no VOC is easily searched on Google. Many to choose from.
Great video, thanks for all the detail! One question on your last comment. How are you bonding the 8020 to the chassis? For example, the water and electric boxes you've built. Do you mean they need to be touching the metal of the floor or wall? Or something more?
A proper connection is bare metal on the chassis. Just touching the paint is not a connection. Make sure you have a good tight connection between the 8020 and bare metal on the chassis. You could also search grounding strap.
Humble Road got it, thanks for the quick reply! Presumably then the grounding is most likely to need to be touching the walls if the 8020 is sitting on the flooring, unless I’m going through the floor to a tie-down anyway?
@@HumbleRoad You talk about using rubber for a thermal break on the wall, but you don't do that with the other frames on the floor? I would think the concern of thermal transfer would be the same on both surfaces?
@@scottweikert5189 The floor joists have a healthy dollop of adhesive which acts as a thermal break of sorts. You have to weigh your priorities and there is always an equal and opposite reaction for every decision you make in a van build. I chose the safety of adhesion during a collision over thermal efficiency.
@@HumbleRoad Thank you for the reply!
That's the direction I'm leaning as well with a future project. I'm considering mounting 80/20 rails lengthwise to the floor in the proper spots, building up the subfloor so everything is flush (probably 1.5" rails and subfloor) and then mounting cabinet frames/etc.
The worry I have is the thermal conductivity with all the 80/20 elsewhere all working together to pass in colder temperatures drawn in from the mounting rail via the van floor. I wonder if it wouldn't be an idea to use the rubber break between the floor rails and the other frames...
I'm also curious how you attach your 80/20, through the rubber, to your van walls; are you using rivnuts and drilling bolt holes through the rails? Or just putting in carriage bolts through holes in the ribs and putting in nuts by reaching in behind?
Do you have measurements for 80/20 you ordered for a promaster bed build? You fastened it to the sides or laid them on top? How did you maintain the thermal break?
He says late in the video he uses a layer of rubber in between the 80/20 and the van wall. I'm curious about the thickness of the rubber he uses. Also curious how he's mounting to the wall - rivnuts in the wall and drilling through the center of the 80/20 to run a bolt all the way through?
This looks amazing. What are you using for the aluminium framing...i’m researching what is available in Europe.
8020.net
Do those bikes not have handle bars? How is that going to work?
The bikes fit without any alterations. Custom!
Great design. Where did you get those structural aluminum bridges from?
I made them.
@@HumbleRoad Thanks for the reply, I mean the aluminum tubing what company did you purchase the hardware from?
By the way love your work and the videos are very entertaining. Thanks for doing them.
Agent RR company is called 8020
Great stuff! Thanks for sharing! What are you using to hold up the platform bed?
The frame system is made from extruded aluminum.
Humble Road Thanks! Is that a steel L-bracket attached to the van?
@@TheAuntieX 1/4 inch aluminum angle
Humble Road Thank you! Wonderful work...and inspiration!
Humble Road (George), are you screwing/bolting the 80/20 bridges to the subfloor? From looking at the videos, it seems like you are but I wanted to see. If you're screwing them, did you line them up with the aluminum joists in the subfloor or are you just going into the birch? What screws and Length did you use? Thanks!
Yes, all 8020 modules get screwed to the floor. Where they hit a joist I use a wood to metal tapper. If no joist underneath, then I only go in as far as the birch.
@@HumbleRoad Thanks! That's what I thought, just wanted to confirm. I appreciate the quick reply. Hope your time with the family was good.
@@HumbleRoad Yes this structural component has puzzled me. What size wood to metal tapper are you using for the 1" square?
@@HumbleRoad Teks says "Stainless steel will cause rapid corrosion when used with Zinc plated fasteners." Are you using the painted version Teks?
@@durkintj yes
This issue had serious sound problems maybe a phase cancellation or was due to Harvey compressed sound. Other than that Grate ideals great teachings.
Are you kidding me! Is Harvey compressing sound again!? 🤗
What size aluminum 8020 you using on the structure?
The heavier sections are 15 series and the lighter are 10 series.
Fine work George
What items are you using to get the heat from the motor to the “centralheating” system in the Van
You cannot just use all kind og metal as they in some cases can damage eachother
Regards
Ole
rubber tubing, single wall heat exchanger and brass fittings.
How did you fasten the 8020 horizontal
bed struts to the side of the van ?
I like the design philosophy, very similar to how ambulance interiors are made, light and stronge, really enjoying your series chap :)
Can you please tell me where you get the draw runners from as I’m looking for some for a build I’m looking at doing myself. I’m based in the UK.
Google
Sorry if this has already been answered but what size 80/20 profiles did you use for the bed and wheel wells?
combination of 1.5 and 1 inch
@@HumbleRoad How do you choose when to use 1.5 inch vs. 1 inch. Can 1 inch be used everywhere? Thanks!
Ruslan you could use 1” all around if you are aware of how to reinforce certain areas to spread or direct the load
Any plans in creating a Bill of Material for sub-assemblies (i.e. garage/bed, water system, power system, closet, restroom, etc.) and sell them? I am planning on a Promaster soon. You are the best builder in TH-cam. I am wondering usual build prices on average.
Sorry, Aldo, I don't work off plans and I am only focused on creating full builds.
you understand about thermal breaks but wont that 80/20 just suck heat out of the floor ?
The plywood is an excellent thermal break.
@@HumbleRoad but then its on the wrong side of the insulation ? Please I 100 % respect your work and look forward to every video you post, In the UK it gets cold and keeping things warm is a must. I think if it was me I would of used wood beside the insulation not Ally ?
@@David_11111 I voiced the same concern before. th-cam.com/video/h5L6TZdy_y0/w-d-xo.html
David_1 , I too came to that conclusion based only upon my own experience with aluminum heat conduction in a cold climate structure.
However, I think I remember George saying something about avoiding rot by using aluminum. That would explain the aluminum ribs.
@@tonynotstated695 It seems so unfair of me to pick at Georges work and so few of us could even come close to achieving. I was sort of hopping for justification :(
George, what’s the buildable length of the cargo area?
Mike King that depends on your personal priorities. In this case it’s 64 inches front to back.
@@HumbleRoad 64" from cab to back doors, that's only 5'3", that seems incorrect? I know the Ram website states 160", but I wasn't sure if that was the "buildable" length or total length.
@@MikeKilo1969 Sorry, Mike. I thought you were asking about the length of the garage area! I'll measure it tomorrow and let you know.
@@HumbleRoad Thank you, sir.
How do you connect the 80/20? Nuts and bolts?
Thanks for the video,
Do you have a link to purchase battery?
Sergei G. Sorry, the battery system is not available other than OEM.
A couple of folks have asked this, but I don't see an answer, so I'll bring it up again. Doesn't bonding the 80/20 frames to the body/chassis, by definition, circumvent the thermal breaks? Is this just a compromise that has to be made?
I use rubber as a thermal break
@@HumbleRoad Right, I get that. But don't you, at some point, have to breach the thermal break to electrically bond the 80/20 to the frame? Or am I not understanding bonding?
Yes, you do "breach" the thermal break with your bonding strap or bolt. But, every vehicle has breaches. You cannot worry about a couple of bolts here and there, you'll drive yourself crazy!
@@HumbleRoad No truer words!!
I have enjoyed watching your channel and your approach to van building. I am planning a Promaster build very similar to this layout. I certainly understand the pros of building structures with 80/20, but am also sure it could be built lower cost with wood. My question is: What is the approximate cost of the 80/20 materials inside this van? Thanks, and keep doing what you do.
It is true, 8020 is rather expensive. But the benefits are worth the cost, IMHO.
Did those slides end up working with the bikes?
The project is still underway, but the whole garage area is just right.
Just an FYI going forward. I know you are a guy that is always looking for options. For mountain bikes it wise to give yourself a few more inches because the old ones sometimes break and people buy new ones that don't have the same specifications.
Agreed. I suspect this 29er will be replaced with a smaller bike.
Are you using 1" X 1" tube on the floor or 1" X 2" tube?
1x1
Best mattress ever. My memory foam offgassed and I got 100% organic cotton that also had chemicals that offgassed. The foam sweats and condensates, even with holes drilled in the boards below. But the very best, extremely well ventilated mattress was a regular box springs with big metal coils. We cut it to size and closed the ends back up and not only is it amazingly comfy like a house, there’s no offgassing, because the other ones made me sick. It’s fine if you aren’t sensitive to that stuff, but the air that travels thru this mattress keeps everything fresh and dry no matter what. It’s never been done, so we did a DIY on how to make the best bed mattress ever. th-cam.com/video/Png_6f2GH68/w-d-xo.html
What did you use for the "rubber thermal break"?
Heavy mass vinyl
ISN'T THE ENGINE A DIESEL? Thinking about how much heat u can gain from the Vans engine in the winter.. Diesel doesn't get hot, problem with heating windscreen and drivers cabin. That Is why all diesel cars and especially Vans got separat Webasto here in Europe.
This Promaster is a gasoline van. Has a Webasto air heater installed under the fridge. And we make hot water with a closed loop glycol system stealing engine heat through a heat exchanger.
@@HumbleRoad thanks for answer, I missed it that it was run by gasoline. It's engine runs hotter.
It will be interesting to see the wend results.
Its a smart setup.
I've been watching yours vedios for a little while now and you get so detailed, rationalized and exhausted describing everything you do. I feel like I'm watching the new Felex Unger Show. LOL. Sometimes the passion in your voice, and the redness in your face, makes me feel like your going to have a stroke. Calm down. We can get the point of your opinion and details without you hurting yourself. Please.
Its his style of delivery - its meant to be funny. You are taking it the wrong way.
fyi - Rationalizing, exhaustively, Felix.
Why the aluminum square tubing in the floor? Aluminum is a great thermal conductor. Unless there is some other reason you need tubing, why not an appropriate square wood for a better thermal break....?
In my opinion, the benefits of the aluminum floor joists outweigh the drawbacks. They are not organic, so they are impervious to moisture, mold, mildew, insects and rot. Structurally, inch for inch and pound for pound, they are vastly stronger than wood or structural foam boards. As for the thermal bridging; there is a healthy dollop of marine adhesive in the contact point between the joist and the floor. I would stretch the theory a bit to say there is some small amount of thermal break in there. And the radiation of the bridging is isolated to the one inch of aluminum, which is then broken by the plywood.
Thanks for your answer....
Where do you buy those aluminum parts? Are they stronger and lighter weight than wood?
The aluminum is a product called 8020.
Thanks. I found their website, 8020.net, and a video, th-cam.com/video/Tbu85K7pW1g/w-d-xo.html .
Don't the aluminum tubes in the floor create thermal bridges defeating a lot of the value of the floor insulation?
I was wondering the same thing.
In my opinion, the benefits of the aluminum floor joists outweigh the drawbacks. They are not organic, so they are impervious to moisture, mold, mildew, insects and rot. Structurally, inch for inch and pound for pound, they are vastly stronger than wood or structural foam boards. As for the thermal bridging; there is a healthy dollop of marine adhesive in the contact point between the joist and the floor. I would stretch the theory a bit to say there is some small amount of thermal break in there. And the radiation of the bridging is isolated to the one inch of aluminum, which is then broken by the plywood.
I was going to ask for the price difference between 3M and PL. But I guess here the price is not a concern. Google is my friend. 😁
I don't understand why you would add an aluminum frame between the van floor and the plywood floor. That rigid foam on it's own can support a huge amount of weight when there is a plywood skin over it. The aluminum just adds weight and reduces the insulation.
Think about the transfer of weight from the 165 pound battery and all the other modules (galley with appliances and coriander countertop). Then imagine all that bouncing over speed bumps, pot holes and dirt roads. The aluminum floor joists are all placed where they accept the weight of the module above and transfer that stress to the floor of the van. I would think the foam by itself would cause bellies, dings and depressions, causing the components to shift off axis.