Side note: there is a certain amount of "break-away" built into this system. If there is a collision with a rock or road debris, a stout attachment would rip up the van frame, which in the case of Promaster, is very thin. I'd rather sacrifice the tanks and hangers and preserve the van frame.
Sheri Benjegerdes a recirculating shower requires way too much maintenance to function properly, in my opinion. And it’s ugly maintenance, washing filters, crawling around under the van. No thank you! I’ll opt for more water storage!
there is a better plan for gray water, insert heat in those tanks from the exhaust and create a way for stream to come out so that way you don't have to worry about emptying those thanks they will get empty by themselfs, you will need a different design but it can be done
3:25 I love that you showed us your thinking. If I made a video of my van build right now, most of the video would be that. And it would have to be timelapse if I wanted it to be short enough for TH-cam. Oh, and then there's my Amazon shopping spree over the last few months. Come spring, I start building.
I have a similar set up with two gray tanks under my ProMaster. My tanks are also set up to be able to combine two tanks into one. But I have one key difference. I have a valve in between the two gray tanks that I usually leave in the closed position so the tanks will not blend it together. I have one gray tank that handles only the shower Wastewater, I call this my light gray tank. The other gray tank handles all the smelly kitchen waste water. I call this by dark grey tank. The advantage to my system is I can trickle my light gray tank in the campground without it emitting a smell and annoying my neighbors or camp host. The light gray tank is 8 gallons and 10 gallons in the dark gray tank. I almost never completely fill my dark gray tank in one trip. But I can take lots of long showers and not fill my light gray tank if I discreetly drain it each night. If I fill up one tank and I am unable to dump it for whatever reason I can pull the valve in between the two tanks and combine them into a single larger tank.
Thanks for another fun and informative video. I always hate it when they come to an end!!! Thanks!!!! Happy Holidays too. Take a bit of time off for your family and your little dog!!!
Great video, and some good info. My thoughts are that using stainless straps around the tanks, and attached to those hangers would gain you 2 1/2 inches of clearance, and would be plenty strong enough. The tanks could be wrapped with insulation to help stop them freezing, or have 12v thermostatic tank heaters fitted.
You guys had a BUSY couple of week .... Welcome back, you were missed ! GREAT video George .... Looks like the new Makita cut-off saw suits your metal cutting needs PERFECTLY :) :) :)
Thanks for the update, George, great work. The erector set goes "underground"! :-) Hope you get some rest over the holidays. All the best to you and yours.
The waste tanks are hung under the Promaster with care, with hopes that the new owner would like them there. :) Love your builds; first class all the way!!!
Dunno about the gray tanks, Tony. You've got mixed metals, new holes into the chassis, no extra corrosion protection and lots on inaccessible places inside the metalwork to trap salt debris. I'm thinking 5-10 years down the line that will be a problem unless you add anti-galvanic compound on the nuts and corrosion inhibitor everywhere else. The lawn irrigation systems are also normally drained before winter, they are designed to be used in freezing weather. Some other types can actually withstand multiple freezes. (Pemex?)
I love watching your videos! It takes me back to when I was addicted to Norm Abrams' "New Yankee Workshop." I was so sad when they stopped running it here in my area. I learn so much from watching you, just like I did back in the workshop days. Keep 'em coming. :) Oh, and I really love that slow, sexy, jazzy music you play when you are showing us a part of the install or a tour. It's perfect!
I love you videos and they are very entertaining... and you are correct the roof sheet is probably 27 or 28 thou while structural is likely 31 or 32 thou (0.032"). But why are you using a twist drill to drill the holes? They are not designed for sheet and even if you pilot them you will be compromising the edge (straining) these strained areas will corrode preferentially. Use a sheet metal drill bit as a pilot (roofing places sell them. Then increase the diameter using a step drill and mark the correct step with some paint or fingernail polish. Don't bother saying the strength of the rods... 60,000 psi is the breaking strength in tension. If the rods fail before the riv nut rips through the sheet metal, they will fail in bending. Having continuously threaded rods places the thread of the root at the highest bending stress so 500lbs/rod may be a safe static load in pure tension but now you drive at 60 mph with loaded tanks and you have a massive bending stress. And the "moment" will transfer to the frame through the riv nut. pulling down on the back side and up on the other. It would be better to use a strap system like the one that holds your battery down with pivots at the point of attachment to the frame so that long rod cannot bend. The fatigue life of threaded rod even if it does not corrode is horrendous. I would suggest the simplest solution if you do have problems is to replace the threaded rod with unthreaded rod and cut threads on the ends. Or just replace the whole structure with stainless steel straps in both directions with a piece of rubber between the strap and the tank... most gas tanks were attached this way (look at any semi and see how its tanks are attached or even passenger vehicles)... straps are flexible so will not transfer a bending moment to the structure. I am not trying to put you down. I have worked testing automotive steels for 30 years and have taught strength of materials for many years... this is not common knowledge so hence my long comment. Automotive vehicles and every component that goes into them goes thru FMEA (failure mode effects analysis) ...that is the design engineering team assume every part will fail.... then ask how many ways will it fail? what is the likelihood of each failure, and what are the consequences of each failure. They assign values from 1-5 to each of these and find the most important one. They then address that mode of failure and work on to each failure that would reasonable occur in the life of the vehicle. You have suggested that the tanks could get banged up on a rough road but they should tear away without damaging the structure. I think your most severe failure would be losing a tank or pieces of frame and rod while on the freeway at 60 mph. What will be the root cause of that failure? I would think that it would be the choice of threaded rod fastened solidly to the frame. I am only trying to be helpful and give you and your viewers a glimpse into the reliability considerations that go into the thousands of pieces on every vehicle on the road. Please keep doing your videos and giving a forum for discussion and continuously improving! take care and stay healthy!
For my Promaster build I ordered a tank available in Europe, it comes form fitted to fill the spaces between the under carriage beams and includes hanging brackets with no drilling needed. It has very good ground clearance. I’m using it for a grey water but it is black and can be used for fresh water, it comes with hoses as well. Easy to find on Promaster accessories European sites. CAK tanks LTD.
Vagabond Mango, the company I bought the tank from is: CAK tanks LTD, the website is: www.caktanks.co.uk/. I do live in the USA. The tanks fit Ducato Boxer Relay basically Fiat vans of Europe. They also have a black water tank kit may require some modification or bracket removal. Due to Europe’s opposite drive set up.
The Rood's just wondering how your undermount tanks are working. I got my swivel seat base from Caktanks and am considering ordering a grey water tank from them. Do you have any pictures or videos? Would love an update. Thanks!!
Hi George, I’m guessing that you intend to have the tanks empty during sub-freezing weather. The expanding ice would most likely crack the tanks. Not to mention there would be no way to drain a 10 gallon block of ice. I tend to agree with an earlier subscriber’s comments. Think about corrosion protection, maybe even some gravel guard type paint to absorb some of the stone strikes on your metal work. Here in Canada they use a metric shit ton of salt on the roads. It will eat up that untreated threaded rod in a four or five years. Always entertaining, keep up the good work! You are going to need some employees soon with all these vans showing up at your shop. Merry Christmas, Steve
Just a thought for your tanks.. you could use aluminum, or steel, angle to support the tanks. Also if you want, you could take some 14 gauge plate to create a shield for them. Just a suggestion. Love the videos 👍
George I just wanted to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year it's always a pleasure watching you work I know it's kind of always be quality thanks for what you do
Gooood Morning, George! You've been missed! All is well: Breakfast with the Beatles show on KOZT (it streams, btw), and a video from George. LOVE Sunday mornings!!! Still working on my side job to fund my Humble Road van dream! HAPPY Holidays to you and yours!!!!
I'm going to use your video to put a grey tank under the van. Thanks for this. One question, how do you know when to empty the tank? Any sensor you know of that would tell you when the tank is nearly full?
TH-cam is obviously screwing with the algorithm again. Even though I have the notification bell selected for this channel, I was not notified of this upload and it never came up on my feed. The same is happening with other channels I subscribe to. Anyway, another great video George! I hope you're still building vans when I retire in 12 years because it's either you or Advanced RV and I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to afford one of their rigs lol.
Hi, I love the idea of mounting tanks underneath the van, freeing up a lot of much needed space. However, I am concerned about loss of clearance, vulnerability to damage and freezing. Can you comment further on how you hope to mitigate these possible issues. Cheers.
It’s my guess that many people don’t know that this is volume x weight x velocity. And that most of the tankage is mounted the same way with unpainted angle. Your super strut is a great solution, I would favor a welded structure that is bolted in two axis not everything in shear. And I would have back up straps. There is two materials not sure if your aware of - one is Dibond, second is pvc sheet, Sintra. Dibond is two thin layers of aluminum sandwiching a polypropylene core not glued formed, second is a cellular pvc product . Both can be fabed and Cnc cut, glued screwed, and have resistance to bending and low mass by volume. I use the Dibond it’s FR rated. I build and Design with same principals of design for service in The event of failure. Avoid failure with system design thinking first. Consider rockwool for insulation, and wool felt, it’s naturally fire retardant, and highly resistant to mold. I’m on the west coast so we don’t compete, I’m willing to share. Thanks for your videos
Prior to delivery of this van, I added steel straps to each side of the assembly as a safeguard. Belt and suspenders…we think alike! I will not use any type of wool insulation as it is not as hydrophobic as Thinsulate. I don't enjoy the smell of wet sweaters...
Amazing. Just crawled out from under my van and was thinking how 2 tanks would work out in the space much better than one...I didn't want to sacrifice the ground clearance of 'spanning' a floor rib with a larger tank. (#%$@ing brake system!) this has re-assured my thinking. Definitely going with 2 tanks and a connection. Thanks George!
Yeah I’ve gotten my Humble Road fix again. I was sure missing your channel. Wow 3 vans in the shop! Can’t wait to see what’s what’s up with all your future builds. Merry Christmas to you and your family. 🎄🎁🚐❤️
Have you considered adding heating pads to tanks under van to help 4 season protect them from freezing? Also any pipes that may contain water under van. Something like Winnebago Revel pr Boldt? Great videos!! Thanks for sharing.
The tubing that goes six inches underground may in fact depend on those six inches of dirt to protect them from freezing and heat. Just a random thought for whatever it's worth, doesn't necessarily mean it's not fit for this purpose.
George, now that you are a qualified Webasto technician, could you please make a video about the fault or error codes that pertain to the Webasto Airtop series please?
I'm curious how you plan to insulate the tanks. Hoping they are not going to be left exposed, with no insulation or Webasto heat.... Because that would mean a significant restriction on travel plans when Temps drop below freezing!!!!
Is it necessary to have a gray water holding tank? What about letting it run out on the ground? If it becomes a problem put a bucket under the van to cary the water away or have a hose to cary it away. This will save space & weight.
If I had the $$$ I would buy you a car lifter so you could stand under it when you are doing all the underneath additions. I just found your YT and love watching all your projects. My bucket list includes the ProMaster build and live out the rest of my healthy days touring the country. My kids think I'm goofy at 67 and think a woman is a target for miscreants. If I die doing this all I can say is "what a way to go!" I wish I could get you to do some custom work for me. God bless you, Sir! You have my mind working overtime. :)
I hope you spray those steel parts with undercoating or something!! That hardware is going to rust and get ugly. Also cover the nuts with removable caps or something.
I give it 6 months before you have them talked into the auto altitude for their small heaters also!! 😉 I wanted to wish you and yours "A Happy Holidays."
I already told the technician to contact Product Development. This is unacceptable! The van market is exploding! C'mon! If I had the dough re mi and the work force, I'd be tooling up!
George, be sure to add Loctite Red 271 to the threaded rod/rivnut joint, as well as to all the nuts affixing the square tube frame. Loctite is a plastic that fills up threaded connections, increasing contact surface by some 80+%. Loctite Red is "permanent". Exactly what's needed for this application. It fully cures in 24 hours, after which heat is required to break the joint. No need for lock washers, jam nuts, etc. Also, as you plumb Vagabond, consider using Hepvo waste valves. No p-traps, multiple installation options and *no odor!*
Wait a minute!!??!!?! Those tank supports are not 80/20 extrusions! I'm kind of having a moment here that you went with something else. ;-) But, that something else appears to be galvanized steel. Looks good, strong, and certainly versatile.
Side note: there is a certain amount of "break-away" built into this system. If there is a collision with a rock or road debris, a stout attachment would rip up the van frame, which in the case of Promaster, is very thin. I'd rather sacrifice the tanks and hangers and preserve the van frame.
I have also seen Radiant Floor heat in van builds. But have not researched the pros and cons, I'm having Humble Road Fantasies of a Cargo Trailer Conversion.
I would definitely recommend avoiding radiant floor-heating as a primary heat source. It's great as a secondary supplemental heat, but condensation is a huge issue in vans and floor-heating will do nothing for that, whereas forced-air will keep you dry.
@@moneypitvan6378 haha. There is zero truth to that statement. Do some actual research. We have VanLife Tech 2 stage hydronic heating system with radiant heat. We have been below zero without any issues. Hundreds of vans run “well thought out radiant floor heating systems” without condensation issues.
@@shanepitzer4323 Calm down man, just talking shop, no need to get angsty. Condensation is a huge issue in vans. You can literally rust you van from the inside out. Radiant floor heating is great for homes but the technology doesn’t transfer well over to vans and is inferior to forced-air heat as a main heat source. Because of the dew point being in your wall, poor ventilation and the fact that a van is a warm metal can out in the cold, it doesn’t work like it does in a well-ventilated, well-insulated home.
@@HumbleRoad From watching lots of blogs on motorhome use as well as those for cars, it seems there is a lot of corrosion caused by the salt air in areas near the coasts. You're the expert but it seems any place you travel - Florida, California, even Alaska - corrosion may be a serious problem and you should be coating the unprotected steal. I have not used that tubular metal stock before but I have used those threaded rods to clamp a battery in place and they barely survived a year and rusted almost immediately. I replaced them with new rods and heavily coated them with Tremclad Outdoor Furniture paint and haven't had a problem since. Love your videos by the way... unfortunately Canada does not allow the importing of custom van builds so one of your excellent creations is not in my future. I love they way you approach things and how you over build and the quality is off then chart.
THis may have been asked already but I didn't see it. Wouldn't having the heater underneath the refrigerator cause it to work harder to cool the food inside?
What stops the water tanks from sliding into the brake cable? I saw you used some angles to prevent rocking forward and back but there wasn't anything for the sides at 1:00 in?
Hi humble roads , like the tank idea your conclusion is right but you should use two bolts on the bottom of the ( all thread ) tytened into each other to lock in place. so driving turain's and damaged streets dose not loosing the tanks lose from set position. Marry Christmas humble roads and familys! Hope all is well in health, love ,joy this christ mass.
Hi! Love the videos! I bought a brand new 2020 promaster and I want to install a wabasto but my Ram dealer said it would void my warranty. Do you have any advice around this? Or alternative that don’t need hookup to the fuel line? Thanks!
I do not think foam spray is a good idea. There is no way you will get an absolutely perfect job, so when moisture forms behind it, no way for it to escape. Also too permanent. Locks in wires. In certain cases, the expanding foam can deform the sheet metal of the van body. Just my opinion. I'm all about air flow in a van.
@@HumbleRoad thank you so much for responding to my question, what you makes a lot of sense, I'll take it inti serious consideration, I'll continue to keep up with all of your videos, you are hands down the best camper van builder in all of TH-cam, thanks again! : )
How do you prevent condensation on the windows without a fresh air intake ?? Especially when camping on colder climates?? Your vans are built meticulously.
The combustion air must be isolated to the outside, or you will burn up all the oxygen in the cabin. Because this heater is oversized, you can regulate temperature inside the cabin by cracking open a window or two.This will bring in your fresh air.
I think installing this larger heater will be end up being great because realistically, you really want that extra heating ability so you can leave vents/windows/etc cracked open so you can pull outside air through the cabin. Condensation is a huge issue in vans, and forced-air with good ventilation is the best way to limit it.
I am glad that I found you on the internet. Do you think that it isn't necessary to isolate the grey and blackwater tanks? I am thinking about installing an incineration toilette, what do you think about such a system?
How do you vent the tanks so they don't become air bound or suck in when being emptied? Relocating one in my class B and it has a roof vent, but I can't use it due to location. Any help or ideas appreciated! Thank you!
to me I wouldn't trust that type of connection to the unibody rails. rivnuts have been reported as failing often so I also wouldn't use them in this situation. I think you should look into plusnuts/ crossnuts because they would provide an extra layer of safety because they grab from the back. I would also use a grinder to grind away to fresh metal on the plusnut and the unibody frame rail and use a welder to tack weld the nuts to the rail. Also I would use double the amount of holes and threaded rod to double the connections. those tanks weigh a lot when full and the van vibration would easily destroy a hard connection like that. that's what I would recommend is plusnuts. personally I would have just welded a box straight to the frame rail and forget about weak nuts altogether
Curious about the heater, the air you’re pulling in is being used in the “combustion” process of the heater, in other words, aren’t you taking away the oxygen within the van? I saw in another video, that someone said that carbon dioxide is a concern for these heaters, but oxygen depletion is even more of a concern and when placing these heaters, you should be pulling your oxygen from the outside?
I was on Webasto’s web page and they have the Evo 4.0 and the Evo 5.5 (Evo has the altitude adjustment up to 7000ft)... both can be ordered for gas engines. I’ve been trying to find a supplier and the prices are all over the place. Are you a supplier and if so, what would you sell them for? Hubby is an electrical engineer so installation will be a breeze for him. Actually we may need 2! One for our ProMaster and one for my older van.
Yes, I am a dealer and service center now. But at this time I am only installing in my van builds. In time, I will expand the scope of service to include smaller project work.
Humble Road we are just buying the Evo Webasto and kit. We were going to go thru a local dealer but wondered if you could beat their price. We don’t need it installed. Just the Evo heater and kit. Just wondered if you sold them
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
Side note: there is a certain amount of "break-away" built into this system. If there is a collision with a rock or road debris, a stout attachment would rip up the van frame, which in the case of Promaster, is very thin. I'd rather sacrifice the tanks and hangers and preserve the van frame.
Sheri Benjegerdes a recirculating shower requires way too much maintenance to function properly, in my opinion. And it’s ugly maintenance, washing filters, crawling around under the van. No thank you! I’ll opt for more water storage!
@@HumbleRoad please let me know where i can buy these grey water tanks
@@vibheeshavelayudha1903 If you cannot find a place to buy these grey water tanks then should never consider doing a campervan conversion yourself.
@@riboidpart of researching for van life is asking questions, no need to be mean, especially when they weren’t even asking you.
there is a better plan for gray water, insert heat in those tanks from the exhaust and create a way for stream to come out so that way you don't have to worry about emptying those thanks they will get empty by themselfs, you will need a different design but it can be done
3:25 I love that you showed us your thinking. If I made a video of my van build right now, most of the video would be that. And it would have to be timelapse if I wanted it to be short enough for TH-cam. Oh, and then there's my Amazon shopping spree over the last few months. Come spring, I start building.
Great tip on sprinkler piping
This keeps getting better and better. The thought and planning behind everything you do is amazing!
I did not know about the water tanks being filling up in equilibrium....brilliant...thanks
No problem 👍
I have a similar set up with two gray tanks under my ProMaster. My tanks are also set up to be able to combine two tanks into one. But I have one key difference. I have a valve in between the two gray tanks that I usually leave in the closed position so the tanks will not blend it together. I have one gray tank that handles only the shower Wastewater, I call this my light gray tank. The other gray tank handles all the smelly kitchen waste water. I call this by dark grey tank. The advantage to my system is I can trickle my light gray tank in the campground without it emitting a smell and annoying my neighbors or camp host. The light gray tank is 8 gallons and 10 gallons in the dark gray tank. I almost never completely fill my dark gray tank in one trip. But I can take lots of long showers and not fill my light gray tank if I discreetly drain it each night. If I fill up one tank and I am unable to dump it for whatever reason I can pull the valve in between the two tanks and combine them into a single larger tank.
Very clever, John. Well thought out.
You are most genius maker of rv
Thanks for another fun and informative video. I always hate it when they come to an end!!! Thanks!!!! Happy Holidays too. Take a bit of time off for your family and your little dog!!!
Love the way you think everything through and look for the most elegant solution. Also entertaining. And glad you’re posting again.
great videos it like watching a very clever spike milligan, thanks so much
Nicely done George. Great to see Vans 03 and 04 already in the Shop! Looking forward to the end results of the Vagabond Van 😃
That explains where you’ve been....in training!! I’ve been missing your videos-so glad you’re continuing to develop your genius!!
He is so brilliant! I really appreciate these super informative videos. Much thanks!!!
Irene likes the sound of the heat tornado.😁 Pistol misses her morning George treats. Carey On!
Great video, and some good info. My thoughts are that using stainless straps around the tanks, and attached to those hangers would gain you 2 1/2 inches of clearance, and would be plenty strong enough. The tanks could be wrapped with insulation to help stop them freezing, or have 12v thermostatic tank heaters fitted.
Yep, that doubled-up square tube takes too much ground clearance.
You guys had a BUSY couple of week .... Welcome back, you were missed !
GREAT video George .... Looks like the new Makita cut-off saw suits your metal cutting needs PERFECTLY :) :) :)
Great video as usual George. And wow at the site of the other vans lined up!
Another great vid 😁
Keep them coming George
Awesome and amazing build George! 😍
George you are so brilliant!!
Keep talking...
🤩
Love the placement explanation :)
Merry Christmas and a safe New Years George! Enjoy the holidays and the break.
Thanks for the update, George, great work. The erector set goes "underground"! :-) Hope you get some rest over the holidays. All the best to you and yours.
♥️...Humble , that brain of yours just does not stop 😊. Genius.... 🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS ,
The waste tanks are hung under the Promaster with care, with hopes that the new owner would like them there. :) Love your builds; first class all the way!!!
I like your writing!
Via Vegabond, the end is near. Looking 4ward 2 the final product. U R kickin' butt, George.
I love your videos...and the way you explain your marvelous work! I can't wait to get my van and pay$ you a visit George😁
I finally got my humble road fix! Now I’ll get through the holidays without any stress 😁 Merry Christmas to you and your family 😊
So, you got it covered.....and as Barry mentioned, insulation, you mentioned Unique! That is key, Who, What, Where and HOW! Always a Pleasure!
I’ve missed my Sunday morning George fix. I’m better now. 😊
Watching from Belize, while dreaming about my van conversion.
Dunno about the gray tanks, Tony. You've got mixed metals, new holes into the chassis, no extra corrosion protection and lots on inaccessible places inside the metalwork to trap salt debris. I'm thinking 5-10 years down the line that will be a problem unless you add anti-galvanic compound on the nuts and corrosion inhibitor everywhere else. The lawn irrigation systems are also normally drained before winter, they are designed to be used in freezing weather. Some other types can actually withstand multiple freezes. (Pemex?)
Oh my! You've scared me right out of the shop! Stay calm, Tony. It's all good. 😉
This guy gets it. In addition to the corrosion issues, riv nuts are not designed for this sort of stress/weight.
@@HumbleRoad please tell me where i can buy these grey water tank, its no where on your amazon affiliate webpage
@@HumbleRoad is this different metals thing a real problem?
The chassis has a coating on it, so there will be minimal contact with direct metal on metal and minimal galvanic corrosion.
It is nice to see holding tanks installed in a Promaster.
You should have many more subscribers. Love your work
I love watching your videos! It takes me back to when I was addicted to Norm Abrams' "New Yankee Workshop." I was so sad when they stopped running it here in my area. I learn so much from watching you, just like I did back in the workshop days. Keep 'em coming. :) Oh, and I really love that slow, sexy, jazzy music you play when you are showing us a part of the install or a tour. It's perfect!
Oh! I loved New Yankee Workshop and This Old House!
@@HumbleRoad grey water tank name please.... its not in the video description
Another great video!
HEADS UP, RV WORLD: Humble Road has transformed in front of our eyes from a backyard build to a viable company!
Merry Christmas!
I love you videos and they are very entertaining... and you are correct the roof sheet is probably 27 or 28 thou while structural is likely 31 or 32 thou (0.032"). But why are you using a twist drill to drill the holes? They are not designed for sheet and even if you pilot them you will be compromising the edge (straining) these strained areas will corrode preferentially. Use a sheet metal drill bit as a pilot (roofing places sell them. Then increase the diameter using a step drill and mark the correct step with some paint or fingernail polish.
Don't bother saying the strength of the rods... 60,000 psi is the breaking strength in tension. If the rods fail before the riv nut rips through the sheet metal, they will fail in bending.
Having continuously threaded rods places the thread of the root at the highest bending stress so 500lbs/rod may be a safe static load in pure tension but now you drive at 60 mph with loaded tanks and you have a massive bending stress. And the "moment" will transfer to the frame through the riv nut. pulling down on the back side and up on the other.
It would be better to use a strap system like the one that holds your battery down with pivots at the point of attachment to the frame so that long rod cannot bend. The fatigue life of threaded rod even if it does not corrode is horrendous. I would suggest the simplest solution if you do have problems is to replace the threaded rod with unthreaded rod and cut threads on the ends. Or just replace the whole structure with stainless steel straps in both directions with a piece of rubber between the strap and the tank... most gas tanks were attached this way (look at any semi and see how its tanks are attached or even passenger vehicles)... straps are flexible so will not transfer a bending moment to the structure.
I am not trying to put you down. I have worked testing automotive steels for 30 years and have taught strength of materials for many years... this is not common knowledge so hence my long comment. Automotive vehicles and every component that goes into them goes thru FMEA (failure mode effects analysis) ...that is the design engineering team assume every part will fail.... then ask how many ways will it fail? what is the likelihood of each failure, and what are the consequences of each failure. They assign values from 1-5 to each of these and find the most important one. They then address that mode of failure and work on to each failure that would reasonable occur in the life of the vehicle. You have suggested that the tanks could get banged up on a rough road but they should tear away without damaging the structure. I think your most severe failure would be losing a tank or pieces of frame and rod while on the freeway at 60 mph. What will be the root cause of that failure? I would think that it would be the choice of threaded rod fastened solidly to the frame. I am only trying to be helpful and give you and your viewers a glimpse into the reliability considerations that go into the thousands of pieces on every vehicle on the road. Please keep doing your videos and giving a forum for discussion and continuously improving! take care and stay healthy!
For my Promaster build I ordered a tank available in Europe, it comes form fitted to fill the spaces between the under carriage beams and includes hanging brackets with no drilling needed. It has very good ground clearance. I’m using it for a grey water but it is black and can be used for fresh water, it comes with hoses as well. Easy to find on Promaster accessories European sites. CAK tanks LTD.
The Rood’s are you in the USA? Do you have a link for these tanks? They sound awesome
Vagabond Mango, the company I bought the tank from is: CAK tanks LTD, the website is: www.caktanks.co.uk/. I do live in the USA. The tanks fit Ducato Boxer Relay basically Fiat vans of Europe. They also have a black water tank kit may require some modification or bracket removal. Due to Europe’s opposite drive set up.
The Rood's just wondering how your undermount tanks are working. I got my swivel seat base from Caktanks and am considering ordering a grey water tank from them. Do you have any pictures or videos? Would love an update. Thanks!!
Happy Holidays!
Have a great Christmas George - and all the best to you and your family for 2020. Hope the van orders roll in nicely over this coming year.
This is so great! You get it man, you get it
Hi George,
I’m guessing that you intend to have the tanks empty during sub-freezing weather. The expanding ice would most likely crack the tanks. Not to mention there would be no way to drain a 10 gallon block of ice.
I tend to agree with an earlier subscriber’s comments. Think about corrosion protection, maybe even some gravel guard type paint to absorb some of the stone strikes on your metal work.
Here in Canada they use a metric shit ton of salt on the roads. It will eat up that untreated threaded rod in a four or five years.
Always entertaining, keep up the good work!
You are going to need some employees soon with all these vans showing up at your shop.
Merry Christmas,
Steve
Only if they are full or close to being full.
Awesome video, happy holidays and Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you and yours!!
Love your videos. Love your attention to detail. 2020 is going to be a great year!
Just a thought for your tanks.. you could use aluminum, or steel, angle to support the tanks. Also if you want, you could take some 14 gauge plate to create a shield for them. Just a suggestion. Love the videos 👍
George I just wanted to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year it's always a pleasure watching you work I know it's kind of always be quality thanks for what you do
Gooood Morning, George! You've been missed! All is well: Breakfast with the Beatles show on KOZT (it streams, btw), and a video from George. LOVE Sunday mornings!!! Still working on my side job to fund my Humble Road van dream! HAPPY Holidays to you and yours!!!!
I'm going to use your video to put a grey tank under the van. Thanks for this. One question, how do you know when to empty the tank? Any sensor you know of that would tell you when the tank is nearly full?
TH-cam is obviously screwing with the algorithm again. Even though I have the notification bell selected for this channel, I was not notified of this upload and it never came up on my feed. The same is happening with other channels I subscribe to. Anyway, another great video George! I hope you're still building vans when I retire in 12 years because it's either you or Advanced RV and I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to afford one of their rigs lol.
your are a best my man i love ya your style your ideas a excellent mentor for a builder like me
Hi, I love the idea of mounting tanks underneath the van, freeing up a lot of much needed space. However, I am concerned about loss of clearance, vulnerability to damage and freezing. Can you comment further on how you hope to mitigate these possible issues. Cheers.
It’s my guess that many people don’t know that this is volume x weight x velocity. And that most of the tankage is mounted the same way with unpainted angle. Your super strut is a great solution, I would favor a welded structure that is bolted in two axis not everything in shear. And I would have back up straps. There is two materials not sure if your aware of - one is Dibond, second is pvc sheet, Sintra. Dibond is two thin layers of aluminum sandwiching a polypropylene core not glued formed, second is a cellular pvc product . Both can be fabed and Cnc cut, glued screwed, and have resistance to bending and low mass by volume. I use the Dibond it’s FR rated. I build and Design with same principals of design for service in The event of failure. Avoid failure with system design thinking first. Consider rockwool for insulation, and wool felt, it’s naturally fire retardant, and highly resistant to mold. I’m on the west coast so we don’t compete, I’m willing to share. Thanks for your videos
Prior to delivery of this van, I added steel straps to each side of the assembly as a safeguard. Belt and suspenders…we think alike! I will not use any type of wool insulation as it is not as hydrophobic as Thinsulate. I don't enjoy the smell of wet sweaters...
Amazing. Just crawled out from under my van and was thinking how 2 tanks would work out in the space much better than one...I didn't want to sacrifice the ground clearance of 'spanning' a floor rib with a larger tank. (#%$@ing brake system!) this has re-assured my thinking. Definitely going with 2 tanks and a connection. Thanks George!
Yeah I’ve gotten my Humble Road fix again. I was sure missing your channel. Wow 3 vans in the shop! Can’t wait to see what’s what’s up with all your future builds. Merry Christmas to you and your family. 🎄🎁🚐❤️
Have you considered adding heating pads to tanks under van to help 4 season protect them from freezing? Also any pipes that may contain water under van. Something like Winnebago Revel pr Boldt? Great videos!! Thanks for sharing.
All my plumbing is inside the van. The grey tanks are outside and do not concern themselves with freezing temps. The owners are full timers.
I was just about to type a comment about the fridge, then l saw that you are still fighting with it 🤣
Bravo!
The tubing that goes six inches underground may in fact depend on those six inches of dirt to protect them from freezing and heat. Just a random thought for whatever it's worth, doesn't necessarily mean it's not fit for this purpose.
George, now that you are a qualified Webasto technician, could you please make a video about the fault or error codes that pertain to the Webasto Airtop series please?
Dude- as soon as I generate those codes, I'll portray your frustration!
I'm curious how you plan to insulate the tanks. Hoping they are not going to be left exposed, with no insulation or Webasto heat.... Because that would mean a significant restriction on travel plans when Temps drop below freezing!!!!
Got it covered, Barry. Each owner's objectives are unique. You must know I could cook macaroni in those tanks of I wanted to... 🙃
@@HumbleRoad haha, I figured you'd have it covered if needed. I just couldn't imagine not wanting/needing that flexibility! :)
Where do you buy these tanks?
It's the music from "whatever happened to pizza at McDonald's" !!
Is it necessary to have a gray water holding tank? What about letting it run out on the ground? If it becomes a problem put a bucket under the van to cary the water away or have a hose to cary it away. This will save space & weight.
Why not put some thin sheet metal pans on the underside of the tanks to protect it from small rocks and such?
I would fly to where ever your at to do my build
If I had the $$$ I would buy you a car lifter so you could stand under it when you are doing all the underneath additions. I just found your YT and love watching all your projects. My bucket list includes the ProMaster build and live out the rest of my healthy days touring the country. My kids think I'm goofy at 67 and think a woman is a target for miscreants. If I die doing this all I can say is "what a way to go!" I wish I could get you to do some custom work for me. God bless you, Sir! You have my mind working overtime. :)
Welcome to Humble Road!
I hope you spray those steel parts with undercoating or something!! That hardware is going to rust and get ugly. Also cover the nuts with removable caps or something.
Adam Kennedy he said he was going to in the video
I give it 6 months before you have them talked into the auto altitude for their small heaters also!! 😉 I wanted to wish you and yours "A Happy Holidays."
I already told the technician to contact Product Development. This is unacceptable! The van market is exploding! C'mon! If I had the dough re mi and the work force, I'd be tooling up!
@@HumbleRoad I have no doubt, my friend.
Great ideas here! Curious why you didn’t use 80/20 for the tank frame?
MrKnightJCK $$$
Still working on that fridge 😂😂 🔨
George, be sure to add Loctite Red 271 to the threaded rod/rivnut joint, as well as to all the nuts affixing the square tube frame.
Loctite is a plastic that fills up threaded connections, increasing contact surface by some 80+%. Loctite Red is "permanent". Exactly what's needed for this application. It fully cures in 24 hours, after which heat is required to break the joint. No need for lock washers, jam nuts, etc.
Also, as you plumb Vagabond, consider using Hepvo waste valves. No p-traps, multiple installation options and *no odor!*
Thanks John. I use Loctite on every thread. Heck, I even make peanut butter and Loctite sandwiches!
And yes, we have a box full of Hepvo duck bill traps. I used one in an earlier video explaining the fresh tank under the galley.
What if where u dump is on a slope?
Best angle would be nose up. But most dump sites are "relatively" level and gravity would empty most of the grey water. No worries!
Wait a minute!!??!!?! Those tank supports are not 80/20 extrusions! I'm kind of having a moment here that you went with something else. ;-)
But, that something else appears to be galvanized steel. Looks good, strong, and certainly versatile.
Good eye!
Looking forward to see how all connections and hardware are in tact in a years time
The annual pilgrimage back to the HR shop to do the tighten up. All systems are examined.
Side note: there is a certain amount of "break-away" built into this system. If there is a collision with a rock or road debris, a stout attachment would rip up the van frame, which in the case of Promaster, is very thin. I'd rather sacrifice the tanks and hangers and preserve the van frame.
I have also seen Radiant Floor heat in van builds. But have not researched the pros and cons, I'm having Humble Road Fantasies of a Cargo Trailer Conversion.
I did radiant heat in van 01. I would LOVE to build out a trailer! Let's do it!
@@HumbleRoad sorry I forgot or did not see that video. It will also be at least a year out on the trailer. --- sadly
I would definitely recommend avoiding radiant floor-heating as a primary heat source. It's great as a secondary supplemental heat, but condensation is a huge issue in vans and floor-heating will do nothing for that, whereas forced-air will keep you dry.
@@moneypitvan6378 haha. There is zero truth to that statement. Do some actual research. We have VanLife Tech 2 stage hydronic heating system with radiant heat. We have been below zero without any issues. Hundreds of vans run “well thought out radiant floor heating systems” without condensation issues.
@@shanepitzer4323 Calm down man, just talking shop, no need to get angsty. Condensation is a huge issue in vans. You can literally rust you van from the inside out. Radiant floor heating is great for homes but the technology doesn’t transfer well over to vans and is inferior to forced-air heat as a main heat source. Because of the dew point being in your wall, poor ventilation and the fact that a van is a warm metal can out in the cold, it doesn’t work like it does in a well-ventilated, well-insulated home.
For the holding tank frame, what about rust and/or corrosion from salt brine during travels in areas with snow?
This van only follows 70 degree weather. If I see a problem at the annual tighten up, then we will coat or replace.
@@HumbleRoad From watching lots of blogs on motorhome use as well as those for cars, it seems there is a lot of corrosion caused by the salt air in areas near the coasts. You're the expert but it seems any place you travel - Florida, California, even Alaska - corrosion may be a serious problem and you should be coating the unprotected steal. I have not used that tubular metal stock before but I have used those threaded rods to clamp a battery in place and they barely survived a year and rusted almost immediately. I replaced them with new rods and heavily coated them with Tremclad Outdoor Furniture paint and haven't had a problem since. Love your videos by the way... unfortunately Canada does not allow the importing of custom van builds so one of your excellent creations is not in my future. I love they way you approach things and how you over build and the quality is off then chart.
What size tanks are you using, and what section are you placing them?
If I remember correctly these tanks were 10 - 12 gallons each. Not sure as they were sourced by the Vagabonds.
George.......where are you?? We miss you!
smandler2000 I’ll have a video next Sunday.
What size tanks did you use. Supplier?.
You crack me up! 😂🤣🤣🤣
Feckin' brilliant, and perfectly sound logic all around once again.
THis may have been asked already but I didn't see it. Wouldn't having the heater underneath the refrigerator cause it to work harder to cool the food inside?
The heater is no where near that sloppy. It is very efficient at pulling the air in, heating it and pushing it right out into the cabin.
if I won the lottery I'd pay George to build a tricked out van for me
What stops the water tanks from sliding into the brake cable? I saw you used some angles to prevent rocking forward and back but there wasn't anything for the sides at 1:00 in?
Hi humble roads , like the tank idea your conclusion is right but you should use two bolts on the bottom of the ( all thread ) tytened into each other to lock in place. so driving turain's and damaged streets dose not loosing the tanks lose from set position.
Marry Christmas humble roads and familys! Hope all is well in health, love ,joy this christ mass.
Hi! Love the videos! I bought a brand new 2020 promaster and I want to install a wabasto but my Ram dealer said it would void my warranty. Do you have any advice around this? Or alternative that don’t need hookup to the fuel line? Thanks!
I think your dealer gave you bad info.
I really enjoy your videos Sir, bit I've noticed you never incorporate foam spraying as your insulation choice, is there a reason?
I do not think foam spray is a good idea. There is no way you will get an absolutely perfect job, so when moisture forms behind it, no way for it to escape. Also too permanent. Locks in wires. In certain cases, the expanding foam can deform the sheet metal of the van body. Just my opinion. I'm all about air flow in a van.
@@HumbleRoad thank you so much for responding to my question, what you makes a lot of sense, I'll take it inti serious consideration, I'll continue to keep up with all of your videos, you are hands down the best camper van builder in all of TH-cam, thanks again! : )
what size tanks did you use for the grey water?
I was wondering the same.....did you find an answer to the tanks sizes?
Yes, but the fridge? Has that thing even budged a little?
Doris Towns BUDGED! Nope, it hasn’t budged! Just like Pooh stuck in Rabbit’s front door 😄
@@HumbleRoad Better call Gopher! Have him bring dynamite. (sorry, I have grandkids)
How do you prevent condensation on the windows without a fresh air intake ?? Especially when camping on colder climates?? Your vans are built meticulously.
The combustion air must be isolated to the outside, or you will burn up all the oxygen in the cabin. Because this heater is oversized, you can regulate temperature inside the cabin by cracking open a window or two.This will bring in your fresh air.
I think installing this larger heater will be end up being great because realistically, you really want that extra heating ability so you can leave vents/windows/etc cracked open so you can pull outside air through the cabin. Condensation is a huge issue in vans, and forced-air with good ventilation is the best way to limit it.
Do any of the rear windows on the new 3500 window van open ?
No, the windows are all fixed.
I am glad that I found you on the internet. Do you think that it isn't necessary to isolate the grey and blackwater tanks? I am thinking about installing an incineration toilette, what do you think about such a system?
I would definitely keep the black and grey separate
How do you vent the tanks so they don't become air bound or suck in when being emptied? Relocating one in my class B and it has a roof vent, but I can't use it due to location. Any help or ideas appreciated! Thank you!
The tanks are vented through the top. A 90 degree fitting with a flexible tube extending beyond the tank so you could add a vent filter if necessary
to me I wouldn't trust that type of connection to the unibody rails. rivnuts have been reported as failing often so I also wouldn't use them in this situation. I think you should look into plusnuts/ crossnuts because they would provide an extra layer of safety because they grab from the back. I would also use a grinder to grind away to fresh metal on the plusnut and the unibody frame rail and use a welder to tack weld the nuts to the rail. Also I would use double the amount of holes and threaded rod to double the connections. those tanks weigh a lot when full and the van vibration would easily destroy a hard connection like that. that's what I would recommend is plusnuts. personally I would have just welded a box straight to the frame rail and forget about weak nuts altogether
I appreciate your comments.
Curious about the heater, the air you’re pulling in is being used in the “combustion” process of the heater, in other words, aren’t you taking away the oxygen within the van?
I saw in another video, that someone said that carbon dioxide is a concern for these heaters, but oxygen depletion is even more of a concern and when placing these heaters, you should be pulling your oxygen from the outside?
I was on Webasto’s web page and they have the Evo 4.0 and the Evo 5.5 (Evo has the altitude adjustment up to 7000ft)... both can be ordered for gas engines. I’ve been trying to find a supplier and the prices are all over the place. Are you a supplier and if so, what would you sell them for? Hubby is an electrical engineer so installation will be a breeze for him. Actually we may need 2! One for our ProMaster and one for my older van.
Yes, I am a dealer and service center now. But at this time I am only installing in my van builds. In time, I will expand the scope of service to include smaller project work.
Humble Road we are just buying the Evo Webasto and kit. We were going to go thru a local dealer but wondered if you could beat their price. We don’t need it installed. Just the Evo heater and kit. Just wondered if you sold them
Hi,
What's the name of 1/2" pvc board you used for the bath enclosed? Please. A link of where do you buy them?
I have heard that people run the diesel heaters on kerosene also. Is that true?