We Thought We Found Paradise
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Sailing our new catamaran in Thailand is an experience like no other. We find paradise on the island of Koh Chang, part of a remote archipelago, with clear waters, palm-lined beached and a fascinating and beautiful river to explore. The only problem? We still can't trust our anchor. Is it us? Or is it the anchor? Let us know your thoughts.
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Hey there! We're Nick and Terysa and we’ve become completely obsessed with the idea of sailing around the world and sharing our experiences and information through our sailing lifestyle videos with others.
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I sailed 3 years in the Mediterranean. I had a friend that had your style anchor and he had problems setting their anchor also. They noticed that I never had problems with my Rocna anchor. He purchased a new Rocna and solved his problem. There's nothing better than putting down your anchor and you feel confident that it holds. Highly recommend Rocna. Personally I think you need 10 mm chain for your size catamaran 😊
Same issue we had in Croatia on a charter boat. However in the flat sandy Bahamas, no issue. Agree the 8mm chain is lighter than other YT channels in sub 40 foot monos.
100% worth having 10mm chain on a boat of this weight, I'm pretty sure 10mm is around 35% more weight per meter.
Definitely worth the piece of mind for the extra security at anchor.
@@terrybarker9911 10mm chain is 58% heavier than 8mm chain per meter (2.3kg/m vs 1.45kg/m). For the same weight you can carry much longer chain. With a lighter chain is good to add a bit extra scope when setting the anchor in shallow water and pull more gently as the lighter chain will be bar tight more easily.
I have a 43' Catamaran and have held very solid in 50-60 kt winds and can say with confidence the comments in this thread are on the money.
#1 Get a Rocna and ignore Rocna's advice and go one size up (always oversize it's your insurance policy at anchor)
#2 Get 3/8" (10mm) chain as you need the weight to ensure in a blow that the angle remains steady and gives you shock absorption when the boat pulls in a gust
#3 Put more chain out... in the video mention starting with 6X scope (are you conting freeboard in your maths?) I start with 7X including freeboard and then usually put a bit more out "just in case" (tm). She's a catamaran and carry's more windage than a mono. Be conservative. If I know a front is coming through and I'm going to see anything over 25kt then I put 10X (incl freeboard) out. I carry 200' 3/8" chain plus 300' of rope.
Since your cat (like mine) is weight sensitive for performance reasons offset the additional weight of chain and anchor be removing something(s) less critical or in my case carrying less water forward.
tldr; very few things on a boat are more critical than ground tackle so you need better tackle and put more out
My answer also. We have 2 Rocnas and they have held in the most horrendous conditions, 7 knot reversing flow tide, in sand. Not a problem. 4 litre paint tin on the pointy end. That was a problem.
Hi Nick & Teresa, we have the same type of Sarca Excel anchor and 8mm chain with a swivel on our Seawind 1160 and did experience a couple of dragging episodes like yours.
We found that if you are stationery when you drop the anchor the chain can loop around the anchor or drop through crossbar at the back of the anchor as the chain piles on top of it and cause it to not set. Now we actually start reversing as we drop the anchor and have had no problems since doing that. The anchor holds very well providing the sea floor is good.
Hope you get it sorted 😊
Cheers from the SV Yaminda Crew
Terysa came up with a brilliant idea. Putting a camera on the anchor would be amazing to see for all of us! I would be really interested in that footage. Maybe it would give you an idea of what the anchor is doing as well.
There is someone on the Cruisers Forum who did all sorts videos like that ,it was very interesting
SV Panope
Probably good way to kill a camera though
@@scottgodive1139 not if its a gopro!
Great idea. Tie a punctured sardine tin on the anchor shank for extra crab action shots.
My yacht master instructor told me, the weight of the chain plays as big of part in holding your boat as the anchor. A heavier chain would absorb the boats movement (like a spring) before the motion reaches the anchor. I could be wrong but I would say you either need more scope or heavier chain. (And more scope seems out of the question?!?)
We also put out another scope of chain behind the bridle. We need to make sure that the chain falls behind the bridle in a U-shape and not in front of it.
There's no give in a chain, relying on the weight of chain rather than an effective anchor is false security. The bridle is meant to provide the elasticity to stop jerking on the anchor.
Get a Mantus or a Rocna anchor. Mantus makes the best chainhook ever. It's time for you to relax!
Near the end of the video, Nick mentions they are using a Mantus chainhook. He calls it "not fit for purpose."
I agree with @hondbaner. in 50+ years of sailing, the Rocna has been our favourite anchor to date. From what I've seen and read, the Mantus anchor seems pretty good as well. We're on a monohull, so how you do your snubber on a multihull we have no experience with. I can only wonder if the snubber length is long enough (considering your width). Alternately, maybe switch out the hook for a softshackle?
@@jazzfan7582 The chain hook he mentioned is not the actual anchor, it is the hook on their snubber bridal. Look at 10:15.
@@jazzfan7582the closing strap is the pos Nicks referring to I think.
He is damaging the strap by not releasing enough chain after the bridle is tight. Look how straight the chain is coming from the windlass. It needs to fall away from the chain hook so it can't rub on the hook strap.
Guys guys guys, I feel for you, I have sailed 20,000nm from Uk to NZ in 2.5yrs on our new Saona 47 (new sailors) and anchored 98% of the time and never dragged once. We have had 50-55kts for 48h in Los Roques, 72kts in Bequai SVG and many more. Anchoring was my biggest fear as new sailors. Therefore from day 1 we ditched all FP’s ground tackle and followed Sailing Fair Isle and went with the 45kg Ultra Anchor, 10mm SS Chain 100m, Ultra Swivel and Ultra Ring, same as Zatara and many other TH-camrs. Just check out Fair Isle tech videos on how it sets even in 180 degrees wind shifts. We weigh 24T fully loaded and usually drop 4:1 scope, 3:1 tight anchorages and as much as 5:1 if we expect a blow. As a point we always drop 3:1 (measured from HWS, plus 2m which is bridle height approximately above the water depth) we then slowly reverse back until set and then increase revs to 2200rpm for 25-20s and ensure the speed is at 0 for the time. Only then and sometimes after picking up the hook a couple of times we drop the rest of the scope and then finally fit the bridle. We usually only spend less than 2 mins when arriving at an anchorage by this method to ensure we have a good hold before we fully anchor. There is nothing more disconcerting than not trusting your ground tackle and this was my biggest fear. The other thing we did which made all the difference was to buy a cheap audio cable to connect the plotters anchor drag alarm into the fusion stereo so it plays the annoying alarm full blast at night and across the anchorage which for 1 wakes us up immediately and also lets other vessels know our vessel has a problem. I also configured the system so our mobile phone gets an alarm from the system when we are away from the vessel. We have had a few panics in the past but every time it’s been our anchor alarm radius set too tight that has caused this. The final mistake we made as newbies was once we set a tripping buoy to our anchor without a sacrificial cable tie in the cord, the wind died overnight, our tripping buoy wrapped around a bridle leg and tripped the anchor whilst we floated away 20m from a rocky reef. The alarm went off at 5am, light fortunately and we found the problem and reset. Never used a tripping buoy again. Only used that time because the anchorage was so buys and charter boats were dropping on top of our anchor. Good luck you guys, watched you from day 1 before we ever stepped foot on a sailboat, now here we are in Auckland 3 years later 👋
As a charter yacht skipper in the Whitsundays, I think its under sized chain, we upgraded all of our seawinds 1160s and 1260s up to 10mm chain and rocna anchors never have issues! And personally even on my own 35ft mono 6tonnes I have 10mm chain with a delta which has never dragged. Big advocate for heavier chain
The experience you guys are having with anchoring is a lot closer to what most new sailors would experience, which I think is setting better expectations for a typical YT viewer who probably has never owned a boat but wants a geniune idea of whether it's for them. Showing the realities instead of a lot of unobtainable social media near perfection is nice to see.
Time to try a different anchor. 😊
...and definitely heavier chain. Also why not to have a 2. anchor, just for peace of mind.
Total agreement. And don't be shy about the price. The weight is a consideration, but not the first consideration.
I always dropped my anchor while i'm busy to go backwards. Nick, get a thicker chain for the first 5 metres. Remember, your chain is the anchor and the hook("anchor") is only to prevent the chain slipping.
This couldn't be any further from the truth with modern anchors. Any reasonable blow will pull most chains bar-tight. Most modern anchors have a holding power of 1:100 of their weight.
I’m so surprised Seawind didn’t think a bigger chain and anchor would be safer, blows my mind!
Yep... WTF Saltfart?
Your comment on trusting your anchor is so true. Even if you get this one to hold a few times you will never trust it during your shore excursions. Change it out for bigger and better. Canvas the Cat community, someone will have a fix for you. Your segment on anchoring has shown you are very competent and the gear including the bridle gear are faulty. Don’t let this shortfall rob your confidence. Fair winds and safe journeys ahead for you two.
Bloody stressful for you guys. Replace your anchor and go for a 10mm chain. We have 10mm chain and a Rockna anchor. 46ft 10 ton Cat no issues. Try putting your foot on the bridle or chain as you reverse. You will feel the anchor bouncing along the bottom if not set well.
We upgraded to a 132lb ultra. 63 foot catamaran. Not a sleepless night since. Now we DID have the same Mantus hook. I struggled with it and we broke 2 straps. It is not worth the frustration. That design did not work for us. We currently use dyneema or a soft shackle to connect bridle. Very strong and quicker for us.
True test for us was anchoring in an area with heavy current, tide change and wind against current. In high winds we will sail straight across the anchor with the bridle straight underneath and behind us. Then back the other way. It never moved! Rock solid. Plus we circled that anchor too many times to count on the 3 weeks we were there. When it was time to leave she came up clean and no tangles or wraps around that would have fouled the anchor.
Good luck. Hope you find your circle of trust soon. 😊
I’ve anchored all over the world as a Yacht Captain. Sea of Cortez is one of the worst with westerlies hitting 60-70 kts overnight. I always anchor for a hurricane 7-10:1. I select my anchor position, drop a waypoint on it. I pass up the position then begin sternway, laying out my determine amount of chain as I move astern. Engines all stop, wait for the bow dip. Then reversing both engines sighting rise in scope angle and looking for bounce in the chain. Additionally, I set my radar ring to match my swing circle, if anchorage is congested it allows more precision to safely keep distance. Safe travels
What if your chain counter is not measuring correctly?
Maybe you should mark the chain itself .
That seems to be a sensible step just to check.
Now that's thinking out side the box & there's no cost JUST PEICE OF MIND...it is not the first time something basic is over looked😊
Dive on your anchor every time, best education you can ever give yourself
If you cannot dive and visibility will limit as will the sea conditions.
Theres one other option and thats an underwater drone. ... Effectively a tethered mini sub with cameras and lights useful
For recovering small items dropped overboard ..as well. If it has an arm.
Diving on your anchor when possible is an unfortunate (sort of, I like to swim) but necessary task. Especially imho on a new boat with anchoring issues being sorted out. Jet fins, some breath work results in understanding and peace of mind. Frustrating for you 2 experienced sea dogs, hang in there. ❤
The problem with this is that even when your anchor is set in solidly, if your boat swings it can dislodge a solid set anchor that is not designed for it. If it were me, I would be spending the money for a new heavier (perhaps more reputable) anchor and a clipping system for the bridal that was not made of soft bendy stuff! All that being said, seeing your anchor dug in deep at the end of the chain is ALWAYS the best way to start your day!
@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 as an owner of submersibles, if you cant dive on it because of conditions, you arent going to want to try and launch/retrieve and inspect with an underwater drone while the boat is exiting stage left (if the anchor isnt set) .....
Having no confidence in an anchor is a deal breaker. It just HAS to go guys (in our opinion). Great video showing the dilemmas we all go through. With 100,000+ miles of cruising experience the best two anchors we've used are the Ultra and the Rocna but we definitely prefer the Ultra. The Ultra has NEVER let go in all sorts of wind, ocean bottoms and sea and tidal conditions whereas the Rocna let go a few times. We also find the Ultra works in more bottom types and would be a better fit on your bow. Give it a try but go one size up over standard recommendations probably 45 kilos and definitely 10 ml chain. Good luck as always.😊
One way to force an anchor to dig in that likes to fall on it's side is: in 5m water depth, let out 4 m of chain, reverse at 0.5-1knot & then let out the rest without stopping in between.
That way the anchor gets pulled into "dig in direction" like a plow BEFORE touchdown. Don't go too fast or stop letting out chain or you'll rip it out.
Hope that helps in the mean time.
I feel your pain, we hate leaving our boat in anchorages, scared it will drag whilst we are not there. It never has yet but we have now changed from a CQR to a Rocna so 🤞🏻this summer we will be a bit more confident 😅. Hope you sort it soon 😊
Enjoy seeing both of you starting to find your sailing rhythm. You'll figure the anchor out. Memories are forever
I've see lots of boats with that type of anchor and they drag.
My used boat came with an achor like that. It dragged.
I bought the next size up Rocna and the problem was solved. In my opinion, worth at least 2 cents, you need the roll bar to make sure it self-rights.
First time I used my Rocna, I almost fell over when it set and it sets almost every time.
I always had issues anchoring, then bought a Rocna. Since then: Drop it, done.
Ditto on the Rocna! We didn't need to update, but got a sweet deal. And found it the Rocna is a HUGE improvement. We anchor around Channel Islands in CA. Always wcatches fast and consistently. Also after our snubber hook failed a couple times, my partner Tarik makes a snubber bridle with line attached to anchor line with a double rolling hitch. It actually works much more reliably. Although, I do think that usually ends up being on our rope rode. Maybe you can McGyver a better snubber to your chain? Something that isn't susceptible to tension on and off with swell and variable wind.
Or soft dyneema shackle
Hi guys. Sympathize with the anchoring issues. Think definitely you need 10mm chain. Last year we had dragging issues with our Ultra anchor in gusty conditions. While diving on it it was evident that the chain catenary extended all the way to thee anchor causing it to lift. Let another 10m out and no further issues. It is the weight of the chain that is important to hold the anchor shank flat on the seabed. Hope that helps(25 year cruiser)
YT Channel SV Panope does exhaustive anchor testing. The sailing decisions and the "no sugar coating" of your experience is what keeps me coming back. edited to add a thought: Because you are upfront about the challenges you face the quality of the comments are excellent, and well worth the time to read! Thanks to you two, and to all the commenters!
Also have Sarca Excel, no issues, but we follow a precise method. We come to stop, and only when boat begins to drift back do we drop. Pay out chain as drifting back until 5:1 scope is reached, then put on snubber. Engines in idle reverse until boat straightens on chain, and then both engines in reverse to set. No issues. If we are not drifting back when putting anchor down, we have issues. Very important that anchor hits bottom as boat moving back to properly position anchor.
Two things I do when anchoring a cat that I could not tell if you are doing just from viewing the video. First, after connecting the bridal let out another 3-4 meters so the chain hangs in a loop between the bridal and the windless, that removes all pressure from the windless. Second, put both engines in reverse at about 1500rpm for 3 or 4 minutes and observe an object on shore to see if you are holding.
get an oversized Rocna and 10mm chain. always worked for me.
Simple solution, spade or ultra anchor, go up one size. Not cheap but they work. They dig in well and will go deeper in a blow than a roll bar type. Your ground tackle is your biggest and most important insurance policy. If you dont have peace of mind at anchor and/or when away from the boat youre both going to end up in therapy. There's no bigger or faster way to ruin you're cruising life & mental health than having a lack of confidence in your ground tackle. I'd glady trade the washing machine for a great anchor!
I had similar issues with our Outremer 45 (2004) with the same anchour and a anchour hook. My solution was
1 get a spade anchor, which has never let us down.
2 and this was more important get rid of chain hook.
3 make a pruusic loop from 3/8 dyneema which can go around chain 3 times
4 make a soft shackle from same size dyneema
5 loops in the end of your bridles.
With that done set your anchour and wrap loop around chain between roller and windlass ,then attached the bridles to the loop with soft shackle and deploy and all things being equal you are done .
The loop has never slipped in 11 years and the soft shackle has never come apart. The big advantage is that the connection runs over the roller with out issue .
Our Mantus sets every time.
Living on a boat you have to be able to reuse your ground tackle
Best of luck
SV PAOMIA
Mantus Anchors or Rockna Anchors are about the best from what i have seen from the sailing community on here
RR2, she looks great in the wind!
Ultra anchors. Magic. Never let you down.
Yep, and 12mm chain. Yes, I know it is heavy and this is a “performance” cat, but they are never going to actually sail it for performance because very few do especially with a short handed or less experienced crew. Much better to just sleep well.
Ultra for sure, 35 kg spec for this boat. Although it would not hurt to go to 45kg and 10mm chain would be more than enough. I have a 60 kg and 12mm chain for a 35T 60 feet motor cruiser and its never let me down even on a short scope with other boats dragging around me.
Don't disagree but that's a quick £4.5k !!
We were $5.5K with the ultra swivel but sleep soundly at night@@the_ayesha_khan
Hey guys, anchoring tips.
1. Drop your depth plus freeboard plus an extra meter or a few feet.
2. Then let out chain as you drift or reverse hold drift to less than 1 knots
3. Once you have your desired chain out, place the engine in reverse idle
4. Let the boat sit in reverse idle (only exception is in mud if in mud let the anchor sink naturally with no pull for 3-5 min then reverse idle)
5. Pick your land mark and increase engine to 1000-1200rpm
6. If holding increase to 1500-2000rpm depending on your conditions you may even go higher
7. If holding place engines in neutral and add your bridle
8. Pay out 1.5 to 2 times your bridle length in chain
9. Let the boat sit, if you want you can reverse again with the bridle on
10. If you can always swim your anchor
After watching this video I would say that you need at least 10mm chain, you also need a heavier anchor, manufactures always say bare minimum. The one you have looks too small. We have a 42 foot catamaran and an Ultra 77lbs which is over kill but we kite and wing board so often are anchored in 20+ knots of wind. Ronna 35kg is also an excellent choice, but make sure you can fit the roll bar when you lift it before you buy. Your ground tackle will save your life so do not cheap out here to save weight or money more chain and heavy anchor is better. As for your bridle attachment you do not seem to be letting out enough chain. When your bridle and anchor chain are fully extended you should still have a loop in the chain. In this video when you reversed your chain was tight all the way back to the windless, but you should still have slack in the chain from the bridle attachment back to the boat. Otherwise you are pulling your bridle attachment in two directions. The downward force of the chain in your loop is what keeps the bridle attached. This could be why your attachment is coming off. Or it could just be a bad attachment, we just use a standard chain hook. I know some people add some webbing or dyneema but really the bridle attachment should be easy to get off as you may need to rise anchor and run so do not over complicate this attachment.
Are you able to dive the anchor and see the set? We use a Rocna one size bigger than recommended for our monohull and are quite happy with it. Lastly, the chain does you no good in the locker. If you have the room, put the chain on the bottom!!
You will work it out. You ALWAYS do. Looking forward to next week.
Highly enjoy hearing the honest unfiltered opinions from you two, and of coarse everything else is well done.
Suggestions that may or maynot be correct :-)! I would agree with diving the anchor to look at the bottom. Whilst it's often quoted as length of chain put out to enable an anchor to hold it's actually a combination of length and weight of chain that creates a parabola and hopefully some chain lying flat on the seabed before getting to the anchor - so the anchor is pulled horizontally along the seabed and can dig in effectively, if it's pulled upwards it won't set (usually). So I'd suggest with your light weight chain it's potentially not enough, that or the anchor maybe too small (catamarans generally need more than monohulls as their windage is generally greater). That rubber strap does look pretty weak!
Buy a Rocna anchor - they are sized for weight and length of the boat. Ours held every time on a 35'cat - an Edel. Once we had to toss in 25 knots of wind to grab a tight spot outside a mooring area. Grabbed hard as soon as it hit bottom and held all night.
SV Panope's anchor testing videos has the Sarca Excel #1 and #2 performing very poorly in soft mud, and very poor 180 reset in soft mud. The smaller #1 was also very poor in cobblestone.
Hi guys, great episode as always. I was particularly interested in your anchoring issues as we have gone through a similar shenanigans on our Outremer 5X. The factory anchor was a 45kg spade and we had 75m 10mm chain. We are extremely particular about anchoring as your boat is your home with all of your possessions. We were always nervous to leave the boat for any period in case the weather changed and she dragged….. which has happened. We upgraded to 100m 12mm chain and a 65kg Ultra anchor (use the same Mantus anchor hook as you and love it; not sure what is happening there for you) and we have never had a problem since. In short these are big boats with high windage, although light weight and your insurance and enjoyment come from trust in your ground tackle. I would suggest going over spec rather than under and upgrading both anchor and chain. All the best!
Our cure for anchoring woes. 10mm chain, Rocna and sling that chain hook and replace it with a soft shackle. Soft shackles go through bow rollers and you manage them on deck. BTW, I emailed Peter Smith to ask about setting up my Rocna on the bow roller. He replied a few hours later, from Patagonia!
I'm glad you guys are finally having some great times aboard your new home and sailing/exploring some of the best eating areas that you love. I feel your issues with the anchor. I don't think backing up till the bridle comes out of the water is the right way to help set it. This is because of the design of the anchor- with a solid shank and plough. Backing up that hard will only force the shank to lift and ultimately lift the anchor's tip, breaking the anchor out of the sea bed - so then the anchor is NOT set. Sure you need to back up to help set it, but a gentle reverse at say 50% of 1 knot would be better, and as I suggested last week I'd pop a 9lb weight onto the chain about 2-3m downline of the bridle. Yep it means putting the dingy (but you're probably will be going ashore at some point in time anyway) in or use a blow up surf board to acheive this, but it will stop swell and help dampen the wind swings which as you know will affect how an anchor stays set.
Proper ground tackle is the best insurance policy you can buy. An oversized (plus one) Rocna, Mantus, or Ultra with 10mm chain will solve your anchoring woes. Cheers!
20 thousand miles over 4 years from the caribbean to new zealand on our 44 foot catamaran using that same mantus chain hook with the strap and it has never failed us. we've only replaced the strap once and that was just because we thought it was getting a little stiff. we have a mantus anchor (65 pound)(with a mantus swivel) and 3/8-inch chain. we have literally never dragged and only a couple of times we had trouble setting it. I can't tell you what your solution should be, but that hook has worked for us. good luck! S/V Caterpillar
I'm actually exploring the island later on this year. I have a kite surfing friend from Brazil who lives in the rainforest on the island Koh Chang
Koh Chang would've been developed like Samui maybe?
but they couldn't get an airport in so that's why it's remained so beautiful and I can't wait to explore it properly
As an avid diver who has been coming to Thailand for dives the last 28 years, and i know these waters , they can be tricky waters because of loose sand ripples, but then again that tackle should hold it, if i where you i would invest in a heavier tackle. Just my thoughts, great videos, i am glad i found your channel.
Loved the scenery today.
I believe its time to get and oversized Rocna. I work in a different industry and we pretty much hate the phrase "to spec". Yes I am sure that on you computer simulation it works wonderful;ll;y well. but in real life it is never so perfect. Take grassy bottoms as an example there are so many variables it becomes impossible to simulate them. Also let's be brutally honest here, every company is truly interested in their bottom line, if they can save a % here and there it all adds up to a better profit. (deck stepped / keel Stepped masts as an example). Just a thought after a quick rant. Is there enough movement where the chain and anchor fix at the shackle. Also Thankyou for allowing us to have a peek into your life, warts and all, I appreciate it, getting to see the world in ways I would never do otherwise
The one thing that never fails to tell you if the anchor has been set is to put your foot or finger on the anchor chain while reversing into the anchor. Once the chain is tight, vibrations are transmitted through the chain and you can feel if the anchor is moving or not. This is very accurate. We usually have the helmsman check with the hand-pointing-method and the crew at the bow feel the anchor. For good measure, keep the engine in reverse for 20s+ at moderate revs and double check the vibrations. Other than that, I don't remember exactly what the seabed is like in the Gulf but if it's softer/sandy mud maybe the Sarca is not the right type. I'd go with a considerably heavier standard anchor (Rocna, Mantus) plus a big Fortress for soft/muddy ground. And a different setup in order to swap anchors when necessary... different topic. Oh, and a Vesper Marine Watchmate AIS with build-in anchor alarm, much more reliable than mobile phone solutions. Plus you can install a 110db physical alarm...
Having sailed in rocky and grassy Maine, with a boat with undersized anchor and only 20 ft of chain then rope rode (not my boat), I can confirm the anxiety you are living with. Until you get this figured out, I would just dump all your chain when you anchor in such wide open spots, the more weight on the bottom the better. Not a long term solution but a habit I picked up sailing in the Caribbean. Good luck and it’s always tough on a new boat.
Its nice that 15 knots is an option as a limit. RR1 as nice as she was, didn't get moving like that from my memory.
We had the same problems with our Delta anchor. We ended up purchasing a Rocna. We never had an issue again. At one point in time we were in tidal waters with the Rocna. I now do not believe that it was necessary, but we were so aggravated with dragging that we upsized our anchor. We ordered a 73 pound Rocna and slept like babies everyday thereafter. I would get rid of that bridal hook as well. Get a regular clip. We also purchased a lewmar anchor swivel. Hope this helps.
In terms of anchor setting it looks like you are doing all the right things.
For sure the first thing I would do is to increase the diameter of the anchor chain to 10mm, and then get a much heavier anchor. I hope your windlass is strong (enough power) as well. This cat has a lot of wind area so you need something strong to hold you in place:). You can check the Ultramarine stuff.
Great vibes, thanks for that, I would love to sail in Thailand!
A soft shackle is definitely a better way to attach your bridle to the anchor chain. Give it a try
Looking at reviews, seems the anchors with a roll bar never fail. Like the Rocna or Mantus.
They do fail - mud clogs the roll bar and they don't reset. It is a known issue with the Rocna. Mantus has a much bigger hoop and doesn't have that problem.
I threw my Mantus hook into the sea, I was so aggravated and went back to the tried and true. Use a couple of 15 foot 3 strand nylon line and attach to the chain with 2 rolling hitches.
After you get you bridle set make sure to get more chain out . when you back on it the chain should be extended only bridle should be use.
Seems like a different anchor might be in order! I can't imagine the stress created by your anchor issues!
You need to contact the Wynns. They have the whole anchor thing figured out. I think they are using a Mantis…
Yep.. That and that anchor looks funky and sorta small for boat. Though it should dig in if it was built right.
Sailing Parlay Rival, also similar size boat, large Rocna and heavier chain.
they are using a Rocna MkII 33kg on their new HH
Good morning! We love you guys and happy to see a new video!!
Sarca Excel is a good all-round anchor (from SV Panope testing). Either it's not sized right for a multihull or it's your anchoring process.
We had a rocna anchor on our commercial fish boat (troller) and never had a problem with it dragging. We also used an anchor alarm so if we ever did start to drag it would go into alarm.
Really enjoyed watching you go about your sailing life!
Hi Nick & Terysa I realize you have had a lot of comments regarding your anchoring problems, yes you may need a new type of anchore and yes you may need larger diameter chain but until that time you can try after appling your bridal, release an additional 3 meter or 4 meters of chain so it creates a sag behind the bridal and allows a better angle on your anchore to dig in as well as weight to keep a better lower angle under the bow of the cat.. You should notice the anchor chain straight below the bow of the cat.
This works fine on my 42' powerboat and this might help. the added chain behind the bridal pulls a better angle and less up and down. See if that helps.
Warren
I had a Sarca Excel on my previous 38 foot Tartan and always set first time and never dragged. I would drop the hook and let the boat start to drift and pay out enough for about 4 times scope. I would then tie off the anchor rode (chain and rode) to the cleat and reverse up to about 1,500 rpm and it would dig right in. Maybe sea bottom - I am in the Pacific NW (BC, Canada) so maybe more mud? SV Panope did a bunch of tests on anchors in Washington state and I think it came on top. Rocna's didn't do too well in the wind/current change reset as it would gum up with mud. So maybe it's the bottom? Good luck.
Soft shackle for connect bridle to anchor chain.
The Mantus hook is used successfully by a lot of people. Perhaps the anchor situation is causing the angle to change on the hook putting tension on the strap. The strap is just there to keep the hook in place. It shouldn’t be taking any force. It could be that the anchor is slipping an re-setting constantly causing undue stress on the hook’s strap.
With our Rocna every time it hits the bottom it would dig in first go.
We even did a NYE on Sydney harbour with our engine stuck in forward - because we knew we could stop and that the anchor grab first go without reversing it in.
If I ever buy another anchor, even for a dinghy it will be a Rocna.
Did some research on anchors while back and Rocna seem to be on top of the list. For size of your vessel anchor at least 50% heavier of what you have presently (check windlass specs). As for chain, 10mm would definitely be better and depth / chain length ratio needs to be taken in consideration =-> 5 to 7 x the depth of water, for the anchorage with stronger current or rough weather 10x the depth of water.
Try a Rocna anchor or an Ultra, they are way better. Depends on the bottom of where you are anchoring - is it a weedy bottom? rocky? Then you will have problems no matter what anchor you have!
Also try a soft shackle instead of that claw thing for the bridle - works great. Also try to put the claw under the chain not on top then it shouldn't fall off.
I also think you should be using 10 mil chain on your anchor and I would consider going up one or two sizes and perhaps a Rocna. There is a hell of a lot of windage on that boat.
10mm chain plus an Ultra and you can sleep nights. Use a soft dyneema loop for the snubber - it just can't drop off.
We have a smaller Seawind and use the Sarca Excell, and its never failed us. But, as others have mentioned, we have much bigger heavier chain leading from the anchor a few mtrs. Its sets sooo easy , we dont back up anywhere as long as you guys do . Looking foward to seeing your solution
As an owner of a Astrea 42 in the Med. I suggest you go to at least 100m of 10mm chain. We also upgraded to a 33kg Rocna. Have felt very secure at anchor.
The island’s on the west side of Thailand are even better guys. Definitely go to Ko Surin
Good Morning My Aussie Friend's on your new Kat with Nick! So many years of following you two throughout the world these years! Bless your adventures! I have loved our friends in Perth that I miss so much, so when I follow you , I think of all my Aussie Friends from Perth, Australia . Just a North Coast Parrot HEAD Club, In Cleveland, Ohio, the USA!
Mantus chain hooks are simple and reliable, I used on my catamaran. I would also concur with recommendations for the Rocna anchor.
I agree with previous comments. I have a Rocna with 10mm chain and no problems in the Med.
We have the same chain hook and have never had a problem - big loop/small loop...may want to make sure your chain size matches that of the chain hook.
Get a bigger Spade. Best anchor I ever have used. The Vulcan from Rocna is fantastic as well.
My recommendation after using cqr , Bruce, ultra, delta I found rocna 😄 best piece of ground equipment to give you peace of mind.
By the way, Ultra is the best anchor if you want to have peace of mind. Your 8 mm chain seems a bit insufficient, a 10mm chain could be better.
Great episode! I hope you get your anchor issue solved soon. I have never sailed, so I am living this vicariously through you guys. The joy and the stress seem to offset each other at this point. Here's to greater joy component soon.
Thanks for taking me along. I 😊
Have you considered putting a go pro on a bouy above the anchor to watch the set? My guess is the anchor shape and weight distribution are off for some reason. Could be the anchor could be the way the chain is hanging on the anchor. Maybe a good design of anchor (maybe not?) but perhaps a manufacturing error led to a less-than-visable problem. In any case, you have identified an issue, time to find a solution. You will get it sorted I am sure.
In the five or so years we have used our Mantus chain hook we never had it fall off. They make a different style hook that some say causes stresses on the links but we cruised with that for 6 years without any issues. Its a fundamentally different design and it uses a plastic gate which we had to replace once a year but overall it may work better for you. If all else fails you could use their snubber pendant or rolling hitch which also work just fine.
As others have said I would be looking at your chain. While 8mm G70 chain might be ok with respect to strength for your size boat, it may not be providing enough weight to allow the anchor to set properly. If you look at the charts 10mm chain is more than 1.5 times the weight of 8mm (2.3 vs 1.45 kg/meter) Depending on your windlass/ roller setup you may just be able to add a short section of heavier chain that might make a difference. My 36 foot monohull has 3/8 (10mm) chain and a very basic fluke anchor. It catches quickly and holds very well, in large part to the weight of the chain. We have ridden out an unexpected storm with 70mph sustained winds on that setup and I have the heavy chain to thank for keeping us off the shore.
When setting put the engines in reverse and leave them in reverse for a few minutes, gradually increasing revs.
We bought a 30kg Sarca Excel last year for our 42ft catamaran because of the good reviews. For the last 30 anchor nights it held well (incl 35kn mistral nights). Hopefully it stays like this. We have a 10mm chain though.
Hey guys love the videos I'm a liveaboard sailor for the last 3 years on a 50 freedom eagles catamaran our bridal would also never stay on so we ziptie it to the chain , and just cut it off when retrieving the anhor
Smooth seas, beautiful sunsets, stay safe.
Dive on the anchor every time!
Look up online for a Kong chain gripper this is what we use on our seawind bridle doesn't come off till you take it off
As a skipper on a Lagoon 440 (bugel) and on my Southerly 115 (delta), I anchor this way: on location I stop the boat, reverse the engine and drop the needed lenght of chain in free fall (not by winch motor). I keep reversing until there is no chain left. You will see that the anchor is set as the bow will be pulled away I the direction of the anchor. Worked for me... Succes
Check out the Mantus versus the Sarca Excel anchor test. Your anchor issues may have nothing to do with your technique or how you set it but rather your choice of anchor. The best anchor I have owned was a Mantus in terms of ease of setting and holding ability
As watching you come out of the river, hope the boat is there, hope the boat is there. Well if this back seat sailor is so worried about your anchor, I can not imagine what you 2 are going through. Thank you so much for sharing.
I would go with tried and true spade, been using it for over 20 years on my cat. Also suggest using a sentinal as your chain is fairly light, I use a 45lb kettle bell when I need it to hold and don't have alot of room for scope. Best of luck, been watching you from day one, keep up good work.
I'd be inclined to check out the anchor that Parlay have on their cat. If I remember correctly, Colin recently (well not so recent, as their videos are about 6 months behind real time!) bought a new chain, which was thicker and doesn't tangle up, with a great setup for the bridle. I also think they've got a bigger anchor. You'll be right... new boat, new learning curves.
I enjoy watching your channel. I noticed you doing underwater maintenance (always a fun chore) and wondered if you had considered a battery-powered hookah system? it certainly makes cutting away fowled lines and nets much, much easier, not to mention cleaning the bottom.