When Did King Arthur Exist?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2021
- We've all heard of King Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon, defeater of the Saxons, and once and future king.
But when did he actually live? Was he real (yes)? Who really was he?
Let's dig into the earliest mentions we have for Arthur, both as a king and as a warrior and learn who first talks about Arthur the man, and who first talks about Arthur the king!
We'll also mention Merlin, Ambrosius, Uther, and a whole host of sexy Welsh names! Phwoar!
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I AM *READY* FOR THIS
CAN NOT WAIT!
Happy to see you here, good luck!
Thank you for making me feel zero guilt when I watch King Arthur 2004 for the millionth time. 😂
Good movie
YES. But also, I'd watch it anyway because of the actors they cast...
Literally I was going to mention this one
If you ignore Keira Knightley and her bikini made out of braided leather belts (which is really hard) it wasn't a terrible film. Well, comparatively, at least. As much as I love Sean Connery the movie First Knight was the crap of legends.
I watched it yesterday!!!💗💗💗 Ioan Gruffudd, Mads Mikkelsen and Clive Owen are hunks!!
Speaking of Dating and Monty Python & The Holy Grail, the reason that in the opening scene it says England 932 AD is because Terry Jones was a medievalist nerd like us, and in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, the entry for that year is something along the lines of "Nothing of importance happened this year."
That's brilliant!!
I yearn for a year like that!
Had no idea! So glad to know this now!
@@carrielovesfanta I don't think we've had one since the 1980s.
Wow, that's awesome
"but please don't click away because... I'm poor."
Me: time to write a comment for those algorithm Gods.
"Oh mighty TH-cam, please bless our favorite creators on this your strongest of wifi days, may they be showered with likes and may their videos be plentiful in your recommended tab. Amen"
"So let it be written. So let it be done."
A humble token of a reply is offered.
Monty Python and the Holy Grail was a DOCUMENTARY of the highest level of research and accuracy!
The thing about folk tales is that they deal in archetypes. It's possible that 'Arthur' became a shorthand term for a variety of real and fictional early medieval Brythonic warriors and rulers, in the same way that 'Robin Hood' became a generic term for outlaws in England, and a variety of stories eventually got attached to the name. It's really easy to understand how this happens when you think about it. Imagine a bunch of early medieval Welsh kids being entertained by their mother and asking for another story about Arthur because they liked the last one, but she doesn't know any, so she just tells them one she knows about Ambrosius instead, but changes the name to keep them happy. They might go on to tell others the story with Arthur's name attached to it. This also explains why roles, time periods and titles can all get rolled together and mixed up.
As far as I can work out the same sort of thing happened with Ragnar of Norse legend. It seems like if a poet was telling the tale of a great warrior or leader but may have forgotten who that was they could well have put Ragnar in their place and thus he became a Norse equivalent of Hercules in a way
I was thinking this in the video but you put it into such clear words that I could have never explained it any better.
It seems to me that the kernel of the myth of Arthur would be the King of the Catuvellauni who fought against Roman invaders for 9 years and was taken off alive to a country known for its large sweet apples (Italy) after being betrayed by a queen who dropped her husband (a different bloke) for a shieldbearer. Caractacus/Caratacus/Caratauc/Caratacos/Caradog/Caratoc was the son of a man who had been called King of the Britons after successfully oppressing many of his neighbours. Caradoc had ruled from Camulodunum, close enough to Camelot, surely? I wrote a long article about this on my blog _Some Bad Photos of Plants._ There are many interesting parallels, including the weird one from Geoffrey of Monmouth where Arthur invaded the Roman Empire and overthrew Emperor Lucius Tiberius to become Emperor himself.
So, about 500 to 800 years earlier than most people think.
This is why legends, myths, and folklore is so delicious. The best part of it is the retelling centuries later with it without the proper truth. Ugh. I love stories.
I love the idea that Arthur’s round table was actually a camp fire where they’d sit and make battle plans and tell stories.
Jimmys catchphrase is "We don't know" and I like that. History is not easily defined and that is important to remember.
I am so exited for the Arthur-outfit based on Bernadettes picture!
Don't forget the other historical catch phrase, "well it depends on..."
I taught high school history and kids hated when I'd say that (though it was usually something additional they asked about, not core material)
"Most or best evidence in the primary sources says ______"
"We don't have reliable evidence for that in the primary sources we have, but it can't be definitely ruled out"
Been listening to the Horns Of Odin podcast, and Dr Matthias Nordvig's catchphrase is "well... it's complicated."
Absolute YES for recreating Bernadette's Arthur. We want to see you in the whole (proper) Arthurian glory!
Yes, I'm super excited to see it!
Jimmy says “…he must’ve been a king, then.”
My brain, reflexively: “So, he didn’t have shit all over him.”
Probably had excellent curtains too.
🤔 "You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you"
Thanks so much for the Monty Python... a more dignified reply to come, or could be something completely different.
Yes to more of this series! And yaaaaaaaaas to bringing Bernadette’s artwork to life!!
"Real Arthur" research as a teen got me super into post-Roman Britain, and reading translations of Bede, Gildas, Nennius, Aneirin, etc online in the late 90's when finding that kind of material was so hard... This is a big YES on more regarding the topic. If this could include at least a partial recitation of Y Goddoddin that'd be fab. I know it's only tangential but...
nice!
same here. i know that their accuracy has been questioned over the years since but John Morris' "The Age Of Arthur" books blew my mind at the time & are still some of my favorites .. he also published his sources as English translations : Gildas, Nennius & St. Patrick .. which was like the icing on the cake. Also had a great book called "A Celtic Quest" by John Layard which was described as an in-depth psychology study of The Mabinogion legend of Culhwch & Olwen. Ah happy days! He did mention Y Goddoddin in regards to the battle of Catraeth & the stories of The Spartans i think but i agree - a whole video on it would be great:
"Men went to Catraeth at morn,
Their high spirits lessened their life-span,
They drank mead, gold and sweet, ensnaring;
For a year the minstrels were merry.
Red their swords, let the blades remain uncleansed,
white shields and four-sided spearheads,
Before Mynyddog Mwynfawr's men! :)
I would suggest most of the myth of Arthur was based on a nucleus of the true history of Caradoc, King of the Catuvellauni who ruled from Camulodunum - the best candidate for Camelot. He fought against Roman invaders for 9 years and was taken off alive to a country known for its large sweet apples (Italy) after being betrayed by a queen who dropped her husband (a different bloke) for a shieldbearer. If you are really obsesssive you might like my long and in-depth article on my blog _Some Bad Photos of Plants._
Gotta do a Gododdin series at some point, I grew up on it! Thanks so much for sharing this as well :)
They probably needed a dux bellorum to get any decisions made with several kings scoring of each other!
I love Arthurian legends. I do have a soft spot for Merlin-lore also. Will Merlin be included in your Arthur series?
I agree, next time should be abt earliest Merlin mentions.
I feel like there needs to be a series "Jimmy Subjects Himself To [Film]", which should start with the appalling dreck starring Clive Owens as Arthur and Ioan Gruffydd as Lancelot that claims to be "the real story of Arthur as Dux Bellorum".
Please? I promise I'll donate enough for several pots worth of coffee to get you through it.
Ehhhh, I don't think it was dreck. Or appalling. (or historical)
I also don't claim to have high standards in movies. So there's that.
Should add playing Tomb Raider Legend and Underworld to that list, Arthurian and Norse!
Didn't Mads Mikkelsen have a ming dynasty liuyedao?
Honestly, this Arthur is so much more interesting. More please!
DO IT. DO THE ARTHUR RECREATION. That will be really cool.
I love hearing about the real history, as well as appreciating the literary history. It's very cool to see how a certain set of legends and ideas are consistently being recreated by new generations as symbols for what they need. But it's equally as awesome to track back who they really were and find out the truth as nearly as we can tell.
We do have to hand it to Geoffrey of Monmouth. His fanfic really caught on. 😂
I found you through Bernadette and am thoroughly enjoying learning more about history via your channel. Thank you and keep up the good work.
Same here. :-)
Who is Bernadette?
@@arwenrosefall8081 Bernadette Banner. She does mostly late Victorian and Edwardian costuming here on TH-cam, and is one of those people in the hobby who do thorough research. :-)
I'm glad you addressed the fact that a historical Arthur would by no means be the "great English king" that he's been co-opted into. I've always found that to give off a whiff of colonizer revisionism...
You impression of a late Roman/ Sub-Roman Arthur is going to be epic.
Where does the drawing a sword from a stone Arthur business come from? Is it a bronze age tale sewn into the larger legend? I hope you look into the Arthur legend again.
Making garb from Bernadette's drawing would be awesome.
It does seem to be a reference to bronze sword smithing (or specifically, casting). Drawing the sword from the stone could quite easily be literally taking the cast sword from the stone mold.
@@rubeniscool Spot on! And, if you consider the process for mining the metals, you are literally taking the sword from the stone as you mine the raw materials.
@@rubeniscool That's what I've always thought - that it's a metaphor for that or something similar.
Probably bronze casting. Metal smithing at the time was a magical/god(s) given skill. So a man who is not a smith being able to break open a stone would have definitely been important.
Could also have been buried in a stone tomb of some kind. Like a kist.
I remember reading a factual book many years ago that mentioned that some celtic warriors stuck their swords in the earth and then sang and danced for them as a ritual - possibly something to do with becoming a warrior? I have not been able to find any mention in published research on the internet and that was over forty years ago, so take all that with a pinch of salt.
Yes, more real Arthur thoughts please, very fascinating! ❤ Also, yes to cosplay Bernadette's art of proper Arthur that you guided!! As much as the fanciful Arthur is enjoyable (I loved the inclusion in the cartoon series Gargoyles), the actual nonbiased historical info is more enjoyable. The little tidbits that morphed into a legendary fictional figure.
In the Merlin TV show the druids' name for Merlin is Emrys. It's also a great show, anachronisms aside. I tend to treat most Arthurian legends more like fantasy than historical tales, that way it bothers me less when they get things wrong.
As a huge fan of Arthurian myth I would love for you to do a video just saying all of their names in Welsh..it would be amazing!
So happy to find someone else unimpressed by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Chretien de Troyes also massively ticks me off when it comes to Arthur stuff. Lovely to hear all the names being pronounced properly.
The post credits rant is the icing on the cake hahahahah
3 am upload,I know halo just came out but damn good sir go to bed.
This is not at all the point of the video, but I did so enjoy hearing all the Welsh names and places, and knowing it was said properly. More Welsh videos!
I was about to post a comment saying the same! It is a delight to hear the proper pronunciations roll off his tongue.
I am so interested in our Welsh history/mythology. I recently did the walk Dinas Emrys in North Wales and (even though it was in the harshest rain weather ever) it was beautiful. Fascinating the ruins of the castle forts walls of Vortigen reign remains after all this time from 6th century. And I love how there is a story linked to the castle; the walls falling down because of two dragons fighting beneath it. Understandably just myth but I love it all the same 🥰
Would love another Arthur video ❤️
If you want a good laugh at dodgy wigs try watching the 70's childrens series Arthur of the Britons. I remember it with great fondness.
Have you read Sword at sunset? It's a really amazing arthurian novel that puts it back in the late fifth century and really explores arthur as a person over his years as a warlord and as a king. It's really amazing and definitely worth the read!!
All of Rosemary Sutcliff's books about this time period are worth the time. It seems to me, she was always writing about loss and change and what remains. I believe the Sword at Sunset is a sequel to The Lantern Bearers though each can be read alone.
I was thinking as I listened today, of all the different Arthurs as not just being propaganda but attempts to belong to something and attempts to explain how 'we' ended up as we are
I’m very glad I stayed for that last minute.
Sounds a lot like my response to “Do you believe in Jesus?”
Of course I believe in Jesus, the human guy, wandering around on earth talking to people about being kind.
I know that a lot of what we think of as "Arthurian legend" stuff is made up out of whole cloth, but after watching this video I have the feeling someone could do a very interesting movie that shows your sub-Roman generalissimo doing his thing, and there are just semi-random bits and pieces of his life that will later get expanded upon all out of proportion to become the legend we all know and, arguably, love.
Get on it, Hollywood!
The problem is that they already got on it and it was awful...
Yeah, I'd watch that!
@@beth12svist Maybe if the director (or screenwriter) who made that story *wasn't* a racist homophobe??
@@CapriUni I think basically my point was that I'd prefer it done not quite by Hollywood. :D
I want Hollywood to do the version where King Caradoc of the Catuvellauni fights Emperor Claudius for nine years and highlight all the parallels to the Arthur myth. Then have Derek Jacobi reprise Emperor Claudius as an old man, impressed by Caradoc's eloquence. Very soon, please.
Did I expect any BBC Merlin references in this video? No. Am I so happy to have seen them? Ohhhhh goodness me oh my, am I ever glad to have 'em come across this screen XD
I remember reading a choose your own adventure book when I was little where you end up at the court of Arthur, one of your choices is to recite a poem about Arthur which goes horribly wrong when you name Arthur, the king of England and therefore you are praising some leader of the hated Angles
Please more Arthur! Love this!!!
It's a bit unfair to say that Geoffrey sucks. I mean yes he sucks as history but that wasn't his goal: his goal was to big up the Welsh at a time when they were being treated as second-class citizens. It's basically Braveheart or Dances With Wolves. It's not supposed to be accurate; it's supposed to garner your sympathy.
'Always a pleasure; never a chore' is exactly how I'd describe this channel. And yes, more hystorical Arthur and company. I like it when folk describe Troyes and Monmouth as 'fanfic writers.' They so were.
Yesss for more Arthur stuff! I’d love to see bits about the places in Wales connected with the legends and possible locations for Camelot.
Bernadette and Jimmy collab, please. The amount of hype you each give each other is great though so no complaints about that.
Lmaoooooo that face is EXACTLY how I felt when I noticed the knitted chain mail as a kid
This is such a great and informative video! Your content makes my Arthurian nerd heart so happy.
Yes, he absolutely does this. The boy Ambrosius and the man Ambrosius. So many liberties, Geoff.
Nothing to add, just happy to be here. (engagement, mo money)
'tis a lovely place...
(and a reply for the algo)
Fun fact: When I see a video on my feed that looks interesting but is from a channel I don't recognize, I'll watch it in a private window so it doesn't mess up my recommendations if I decide I don't like it. This video - I got 30 seconds in and said "nope, I'm watching this". One video and I'm subscribed! Keep up the amazing videos!
Yay! Thanks!
Absolutely more Arthurian history !!!
Please more!
I love that painting Bernadette did of Arthur!! I bought it a few months ago when she was auctioning it off for Team Seas and it's my most prized possession!
Yes to everything in this video!! Arthur is one of my favourite figures and I would love to learn more.
Stumbling over this a year later, I'm looking forward to see where this went--it sounds like an excellent project.
Excellent. I remember researching origin stories many years ago, including one college course on Medieval English. Go as deeply as you wish. Pronounce names correctly--unlike what I learned in Texas.
Yes, show us Bernadette's Arthur.
I reserve the right to love a few works based on later versions, not confusing them with history. The Once And Future King showed T H White's sincere love of the High Middle Ages rather than any Real Arthur. He admitted it.
After all, you have affection for Monty Python's version...
I'm super excited for this, especially you recreating the drawing Banner did. It's hard to find visual representations of what clothing, armor, and weapons looked like in the late Roman and post-Roman period of Britain. I've been on various museum websites recently trying to do research. Everything seems to want to skip from Boudica to the Saxons.
I just love how passionate you are about Welsh history. Would be nice to have some more videos on its mythology and legends or historical figures . Also the whole reenactment videos really make me want to go and check out some events! Keep up the great content 😊
7:09 Now that’s a good insult! A ducks bellen… oh sorry, yes a war chief, that’s what I thought.
😂
It's so neat that there is actually an historical reference with all those names together!
Yes, please do an re-enactment of the Arthur.
I love your sense of humour and the nice input.
I feel like the BBC Merlin cast needs to see this. Please tag them on twitter?
im still heartbroken by the merlin series but i would definitely love to see more about arthur, especially the historically accurate outfit :3
it is so comforting to be in the dress history bubble. a bunch of nerds all over the world knowing eachother and nerding out about what people wore in the past... and more. and the pendantry. love the pendantry. because usually I'm being told not to be pedantic... but in the dress history bubble being pedantic is part of the game and it doesn't ruin anything. you can say that a detail is not accurate and still enjoy the thing. but it feels so much better to say THAT the detail is not accurate because it isn't. to fully acknowledge what IS always makes me feel better.
Ooo, excited for her drawing to come to life.
I cannot wait to see your reenactment impression of Arthur!
I just loooove your welsh pronunciation!
This, sir, was a delightful study. I agree with you that this view of Arthur is far more engaging than the classical myth.
Completely agree, and it makes Arthur a far more interesting character, at least to me :)
For obvious reasons, I would love a little information regarding Guinevere. Thank you as always for your wonderful videos.
Made me immensely happy to see a Huw Puw clip turn up in this.
Absolutely disgutin!
I am fascinated by Arthur legends! It's difficult, yet satisfying to dig out the accurate history behind the myth. Thank you for doing these videos.
Come for the fascinating history (via Bernadette’s channel); stay for the odd bits of Welsh (which I started learning this year). Diolch!
And definitely yes to more Arthur. Reading various versions of the Arthurian legends was my passion from age 12 until my mid-20s.
I absolutely love that my Welsh Duolingo is coming throughhhhh because now I actually know what you're saying some of the time!!!
*does all the happy wiggles* 😁😁😁
Whatever you look like, you'll need a helmet like that one gold-looking one with the mohawk-looking slice on it!
Beloved! Bring it! I love this side of Jimmy. It’s like me when I go off about Texas History/History of the American West.
That's David Crockett, not Davy! 🎈
Absolute yes for seeing a real world version of Bernadotte’s Arthur!
I love the Arthur stuff, can't wait for the next videos!
Just here for the historical analysis of Monty Python. But seriously, man … make the costume! Can't wait. 👍
Would it be shallow to lead with, I like the haircut? Having already been shallow, I shall go on to observe that you are delightful because you actually address little knots of history that are not easily disentangled. Thank you. Perhaps you might more fully explain how one became a king? There seem to be a large number of them all at the same time.
Kings ruled over vastly smaller geographical areas the farther back you go, so there many more living at the same time.
Well done. I remember reading a book years ago - cannot remember the authors or title - which put forth the theory that Arthur was a Welsh war chief. As I recall, it was rather a convincing work (for me, anyway).
Was no Wales at that point just like there was no England
@@andyc750 I believe they were speaking more about the geography rather than nationality.
I am so stoked for this costume and also more of this content
I like the idea of a fighting Arthur you need to bring him to life. Love your videos. Learning so much.
Thank you! I love the Arthurian legends and have always been fascinated by the history behind them. Yes please to more Arthurian history!
OMG YES! I have been waiting for you to cover this topic since I subscribed last year. I love fantasy Arthur as much as anyone else but I have a soft spot for "historical" Arthur. I am super excited to see you in Bernardette's design too. This video feels like a birthday present for me!
I am 100% here for Jimmy ranting about King Arthur misinterpretations throughout history.
One of the best parts, truly, the rants. Very relatable, lol.
Diolch yn fawr for this great video. I for one would love to see more Arthur-related content, especially given your knowledge of archaeology and Early-Medieval History. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen any episodes of "Kaamelott", which is a French comedy series based on the arthurian legends? It's no documentary, obviously, but it is one of the few adaptations that at least attempts to recreate a Post-Roman setting, as opposed to the more frequent and incorrect High Medieval one. Either way, Arthur was a Briton, not English and in fact it's quite irritating as a Welsh person so see much of world think of him as a purely English cultural product.
Also, if you don't mind my suggesting, perhaps an interesting video idea could be to cover the current historical and archaeological theories as to how the part of the island now known as England went from a mostly brythonnic culture to a mostly Anglo-Saxon one? As someone with very little knowledge of the period, I am aware that there are different ideas on the subject, ranging from outright conquest to a more nuanced "top-down" change through the elites along with a degree of peaceful co-existence (probably a mix of all of these).
Either way, thanks again and looking forward to seeing the Bernadette Arthur brought to life! Also, Gwynedd is great but Powys is pretty cool too (hides behind Offa's Dyke to keep safe from Gwynedd rage)!
Are you really making Bernadette's Arthur? Can't wait to see it!
Yes! Sewing nerd is excited! Sword nerd is pretty interested too.
Yes, I do want to see this reenactment outfit, but what I *really* want to see now is Jimmy's live commentary while watching Monty Python's Holy Grail.
That would be fun to watch, such a brilliantly fun film!
Yes please, more Arthur stuff!
Jimmy, THANK YOU for your videos about Wales! I'm fascinated with the amazing Welsh history and language, as well as most things related to the CELTS: languages, history. I've never been that interested in the Vikings for some reason. Your video on Arthur was revealing and groundbreaking. Please continue adding content about Wales, por favorcito! Also, Why have filmmakers not created epic saga films about Llywelyn Fawr, and other important Welsh figures and periods?! Hello!
That would explain the Mabinogion to me too - I always equated Arthur from those tales but if it's written somewhere in 12th to 13th century, then it's off again for a historical Arthur
Thank you for covering Arthurian legend. It’s a topic I’ve been interested in for so long, and researched. I knew most of the stuff in this video, but it’s nice to learn some new things too-along with the cool welsh pronunciations. My favorite take on Arthur has to be Bernard Cornwell’s Warlord Chronicles.
Yes please! More Arthur!
I love your hair like this... Sorry I know it's unrelated 😂 hello again fellow Welsh Citizen! 😂
But, but, but... LOOK AT THE BONES! 🐰🐰
Seriously though, very interesting! Thanks, Jimmy!
Yes, you DO have the best place names!!
Thank you I appreciate the accuracy and honesty.
I really hope you do more on this absolutely loved this video
I’m loving this Brythonic stuff. Do you think you could do a video on the Cumbrians/Alt Clut/Strathclyde?
Hell yes.
I’ve still got a soft spot for the theory that the round table was the amphitheater at Caerleon.
Definitely do more Arthur videos. Definitely add more Monty Python, and a little Terry Prachertt as well.
... and there went everything I thought I knew. Subscribing to this channel is the best thing I've done this month. Thanks for the knowledge drop!
Can’t wait to see more of this series. Especially the evolution of your RP cosplay. ❤️
Thanks for this video. I actually got info I didn’t already have, even though I’ve been researching Arthur for years.
Yes! Definitely more Arthur stuff! I love the Arthurian legends, and the historical theories about him are beyond fascinating to me!
Also, your Terry Jones' female character impression is spot on!