"Be firm in your beliefs, protect people from their own ignorance, and be as loyal as you can to your brothers, even knowing that you'll share their deaths." by Riordan
17:28 tbh that portrayal of the wardens wardens kinda makes them an apolitical secular version of the inquisition. This makes sense since the first inquisition was formed after the first blight.
Darkspawn Chronicles says otherwise and what are they supposed to do? Don’t be be Solas. I like the dude but the fucker needs to offer some ideas before judging harshly
Gray Wardens are crucial part of Dragon Age world because it represents the very philosophy of it *and* the idea of power as ultimate salvation and evil both that must be kept in check. Through Alistair we saw them as heroes of the day who killed the Dragon, through Avernus and Sophia as dangerous enemy if control was lost, and through Duncan we knew them as ruthless necessity. That three aspect of 'good', 'evil' and 'control between' was essential to wardens lore and also serves as neutral explanation of their famous 'neutrality': it's because they know how dangerous they are and what power they possess Grey Wardens as order has such brutal and strict discipline inside of it, to maintain control over the blights and themselves both because of constant clashing of good and evil they cary inside. And thats also why DAI writing of Grey Wardens were so disappointing and lazy for so many people, because the initial lore and conflict of the faction were simplified and ignored
I dont think the wardens failed so much as they succumbed to the same corruption the templars had fallen to. While the grey wardens they clearly became to radicalized
@@10pointsofslashing definitely time between blights is the cause plus how little oversight the wardens have from the the nations I can understand in times of crisis the wardens need to act but it’s clear they are sketchy.
There are still darkspawn in the Deeproads and since Grey Wardens can sense darkspawn they would be strategically paramount in wiping them out once and for all. I'm actually flabbergasted at the fact they never thought of that in the first place and prevented a 2nd blight from ever happening at all.
Thank you for the comment! Agreed that we need the Wardens! Though it definitely wasn't "the mages" that failed. Just Clarel. That's exactly what I'm referring to with the, "actions of the few" stuff.
I see you forgot about the Wardens' presence and actions in II's Legacy DLC, where it's revealed WC Larius forced Hawke's mage father Malcolm (by threatening Leandra, his then pregnant with 'us' wife) to use blood magic to strengthen the seals keeping the Magister Corypheus (one of the Magisters who empowered the darkspawn to do blights to begin with, and is now a primeval darkspawn himself) imprisoned in the mountains around Kirkwall, the city where said magister and his fellows entered the blight physically. At time of play, Corypheus called to the wardens lead by Janeka, convincing her (unintentionally, the bugger was asleep at the time) to free him and use him as a control unit preventing darkspawn from ever going on a rampage again (Corypheus and his fellow magisters can act as darkspawn leaders in the same way an Archdemon can, and share their respawning abilities). Unfortunately, unlike an Archdemon, Corypheus then just as he did in Inquisition, mind-controlled whichever warden we as Hawke sided with and hopped into their body to escape, setting off the events of Inquisition. As for the Warden's flaws, I think their biggest problem is that they've been at this job so long protecting people, that they now think they're the ONLY ones who can. That it should be them, and them alone that stops the blights for good, and prevent anyone else from having to deal with it. Fatalistic arrogance. Only WE know what is best for the world, screw your morals, screw everything else. We will save you whether you like it or not. Both the Qunari and the Andrastian Chantry have this problem too.
As long as the blight /taint exists then darkspawn can be made. So of course the wardens are needed until the blight and all remaining darkspawn are eliminated.
Of course they're a failed order. My Cousland knew this right from the start of Origins. He didn't want to be a Grey Warden and Duncan conscripted him. Duncan also forced people through the Joining and murdered Ser Jory and widowed his wife. I was always well aware of how cutthroat the Warden Order was. And no, the Wardens are not needed. Only the Joining ritual is needed, and the Grey Wardens are covering up the secret of it. They have monopolized the only method of ending a Blight, and they are using that as justification to continue their order and feel important. You also forgot to cover some of the evil deeds they've engaged in over the centuries under the guise of fighting the darkspawn, such as burning villages to the ground to prevent the darkspawn from having them. Or how about nearly wiping the griffons out as a species because they put them through the Joining as well? And to this day they refuse to let in outside help or work with others. This is also why Corypheus was such a problem, as the Wardens only kept him sealed away, and never trusted others to help them come up with a way to destroy him. Also, Clarel had more than enough time to consider other options. She even had Alistair, Stroud, or Loghain protesting her plan. So it isn't like she didn't have opposing voices she could have listened to. My Hero established the Silver Order in Awakening. That could have been used to replace the Wardens, or at least assist them. My Inquisitor helped the Wardens salvage what was left of their Order after Clarel nearly destroyed it. Even my Hawke sided with Larius over Janeka. The Grey Wardens are in need of replacing, and the noble families of Thedas are more than capable of doing so. Make the Warden secrets known to the world. Research new ways to combat the taint. Only use the Joining on people who have become infected with the taint. Research ways to perfect the Joining so that it isn't fatal. Assist Orzammar in retaking various thaigs and fortifying them against the darkspawn. Focus efforts on locating and securing the sleeping old god dragons so they cannot be tainted. Also focus on slaying broodmothers, which are the origin of the darkspawn creatures. The Wardens had centuries to figure this out. Instead they've only maintained the status quo.
You forgot one thing .. if broodmothers are made from ghoulified women of any race ... and they know it since Origins reveal of broodmother .. then every female Gray Warden is potentially going to become broodmother. After all they kept Branka's house women slowly turning into ghouls, many died because they got tainted too much too quickly .. that's not going to happen in Gray Warden's case .. and only Laryn and Hespith were for so long corrupted that ritual worked on Laryn. Female Gray Warden by time of Calling is probably perfect and easiest recipe for future broodmother ... After Origins revelations there shouldn't be ANY female Gray Warden. Ever. Tbh there are many things wrong with Duncan. I had 4 Gray Wardens in Origins .. for my City Elf he was just another human trying to enslave and control her - so he was just another human trying take advantage of her, she preferred to get executed for killing the criminal arl son and taking blame all by herself to save Soris. For my Dalish Elf, Duncan basically waves in front of clan "Hey I know how to save him, but I will have to kidnap him so you will never see your beloved clan mate ever again thee-hee" so like .. what's the point of saving if it's just going to be life without those you care about ? With Cousland he basically blackmails your parents .. like my dude, you are in Castle, Castle is under attack. Instead of helping us, you basically blackmail our mother to conscript us against our will. It literally flies in face of saving us, as mother is worried about lineage, and being Gray Warden we shouldn't be nobility anymore - not to mention botched fertility. So lineage is dead if our brother dies on war too. The only scenario where Duncan isn't a terrible human being, was for my last Circle Mage, only because Jowan is the worst npc there that ever existed (not in entire game, since that's title for Oghren). The worst and the buggiest. But Duncan still was there at best an opportunist .. and I don't know what to say about Irving since he seemed to be first one ready to sell you to Wardens, given his talk with Duncan before Jowan drama started. Needless to say even on dwarf Aeducan (which my brother played), Duncan was still terrible. When he died both me and my brother cheered on it. And we looked at Allistair like he is insane for crying over him. Not sure if siding with Larius over Janeka is not canon .. Janeka is clearly from get go possessed.
I agree with your points Except that while yes wardens have burned down villages and killed innocents to keep them from the dark spawn it’s a much more humane approach since we have seen what darkspawn do to people women In particular
In memory of Peter Renaday (1935-2024), our Grey Warden daddy
"Be firm in your beliefs, protect people from their own ignorance, and be as loyal as you can to your brothers, even knowing that you'll share their deaths." by Riordan
My man
"In peace, Vigilance."
Yes. Now more than ever. ESPECIALLY now.
Well, they did in fact save the world from five blights. That's a pretty good track record in my book, despite their recent "setbacks'...
what organization is not corruptible and what leadership not been corrupted atleast once in history ?
The Grey Wardens, some magic still lingers in the very name
the Grey warden did nothing wrong #theGreywardendidnothingwrong
17:28 tbh that portrayal of the wardens wardens kinda makes them an apolitical secular version of the inquisition. This makes sense since the first inquisition was formed after the first blight.
Thedas needs more apolitical and secular organizations for sure lmao
Darkspawn Chronicles says otherwise and what are they supposed to do? Don’t be be Solas. I like the dude but the fucker needs to offer some ideas before judging harshly
Blights bad The Grey Wardens good
WARDENS GOOD BLIGHTS BAD
Gray Wardens are crucial part of Dragon Age world because it represents the very philosophy of it *and* the idea of power as ultimate salvation and evil both that must be kept in check. Through Alistair we saw them as heroes of the day who killed the Dragon, through Avernus and Sophia as dangerous enemy if control was lost, and through Duncan we knew them as ruthless necessity. That three aspect of 'good', 'evil' and 'control between' was essential to wardens lore and also serves as neutral explanation of their famous 'neutrality': it's because they know how dangerous they are and what power they possess Grey Wardens as order has such brutal and strict discipline inside of it, to maintain control over the blights and themselves both because of constant clashing of good and evil they cary inside. And thats also why DAI writing of Grey Wardens were so disappointing and lazy for so many people, because the initial lore and conflict of the faction were simplified and ignored
I dont think the wardens failed so much as they succumbed to the same corruption the templars had fallen to. While the grey wardens they clearly became to radicalized
I think the time between Blights definitely contributed to a "who are we?" type mentality in the Wardens that festered over time, for sure
@@10pointsofslashing definitely time between blights is the cause plus how little oversight the wardens have from the the nations I can understand in times of crisis the wardens need to act but it’s clear they are sketchy.
There are still darkspawn in the Deeproads and since Grey Wardens can sense darkspawn they would be strategically paramount in wiping them out once and for all. I'm actually flabbergasted at the fact they never thought of that in the first place and prevented a 2nd blight from ever happening at all.
In my playthrough of Inquisition, she turns back and decides to help the Inquisition because lady (lol) eromund (?) calls in the red lyrium dragon.
"For the Grey Wardens"!
it is a double blight we need the grey wardens and please remember it was the mages that failed not the warriors
Thank you for the comment! Agreed that we need the Wardens! Though it definitely wasn't "the mages" that failed. Just Clarel. That's exactly what I'm referring to with the, "actions of the few" stuff.
AWWWWW YEAYUH HERE WE GOOOOOO!!!!!
😂 thank you for the suggestion!
@10pointsofslashing thank you for the video! 💪
I see you forgot about the Wardens' presence and actions in II's Legacy DLC, where it's revealed WC Larius forced Hawke's mage father Malcolm (by threatening Leandra, his then pregnant with 'us' wife) to use blood magic to strengthen the seals keeping the Magister Corypheus (one of the Magisters who empowered the darkspawn to do blights to begin with, and is now a primeval darkspawn himself) imprisoned in the mountains around Kirkwall, the city where said magister and his fellows entered the blight physically.
At time of play, Corypheus called to the wardens lead by Janeka, convincing her (unintentionally, the bugger was asleep at the time) to free him and use him as a control unit preventing darkspawn from ever going on a rampage again (Corypheus and his fellow magisters can act as darkspawn leaders in the same way an Archdemon can, and share their respawning abilities). Unfortunately, unlike an Archdemon, Corypheus then just as he did in Inquisition, mind-controlled whichever warden we as Hawke sided with and hopped into their body to escape, setting off the events of Inquisition.
As for the Warden's flaws, I think their biggest problem is that they've been at this job so long protecting people, that they now think they're the ONLY ones who can. That it should be them, and them alone that stops the blights for good, and prevent anyone else from having to deal with it. Fatalistic arrogance. Only WE know what is best for the world, screw your morals, screw everything else. We will save you whether you like it or not. Both the Qunari and the Andrastian Chantry have this problem too.
"We don't see much of... We don't... Jesus Stroud and his fucking mustache" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
As long as the blight /taint exists then darkspawn can be made. So of course the wardens are needed until the blight and all remaining darkspawn are eliminated.
Exactly why would play Warden again in Veilguard. To make the name of Grey Wardens
I don't think my dwarves care about blood magic
As a Grey Warden conscripted against her will I can confirm that the Order sucks.
Blight corrupted old god, not dragon
The Old Gods are dragons
Sub
Of course they're a failed order. My Cousland knew this right from the start of Origins. He didn't want to be a Grey Warden and Duncan conscripted him. Duncan also forced people through the Joining and murdered Ser Jory and widowed his wife. I was always well aware of how cutthroat the Warden Order was. And no, the Wardens are not needed. Only the Joining ritual is needed, and the Grey Wardens are covering up the secret of it. They have monopolized the only method of ending a Blight, and they are using that as justification to continue their order and feel important.
You also forgot to cover some of the evil deeds they've engaged in over the centuries under the guise of fighting the darkspawn, such as burning villages to the ground to prevent the darkspawn from having them. Or how about nearly wiping the griffons out as a species because they put them through the Joining as well? And to this day they refuse to let in outside help or work with others. This is also why Corypheus was such a problem, as the Wardens only kept him sealed away, and never trusted others to help them come up with a way to destroy him. Also, Clarel had more than enough time to consider other options. She even had Alistair, Stroud, or Loghain protesting her plan. So it isn't like she didn't have opposing voices she could have listened to.
My Hero established the Silver Order in Awakening. That could have been used to replace the Wardens, or at least assist them. My Inquisitor helped the Wardens salvage what was left of their Order after Clarel nearly destroyed it. Even my Hawke sided with Larius over Janeka. The Grey Wardens are in need of replacing, and the noble families of Thedas are more than capable of doing so.
Make the Warden secrets known to the world.
Research new ways to combat the taint.
Only use the Joining on people who have become infected with the taint.
Research ways to perfect the Joining so that it isn't fatal.
Assist Orzammar in retaking various thaigs and fortifying them against the darkspawn.
Focus efforts on locating and securing the sleeping old god dragons so they cannot be tainted.
Also focus on slaying broodmothers, which are the origin of the darkspawn creatures.
The Wardens had centuries to figure this out. Instead they've only maintained the status quo.
You forgot one thing .. if broodmothers are made from ghoulified women of any race ... and they know it since Origins reveal of broodmother .. then every female Gray Warden is potentially going to become broodmother. After all they kept Branka's house women slowly turning into ghouls, many died because they got tainted too much too quickly .. that's not going to happen in Gray Warden's case .. and only Laryn and Hespith were for so long corrupted that ritual worked on Laryn. Female Gray Warden by time of Calling is probably perfect and easiest recipe for future broodmother ...
After Origins revelations there shouldn't be ANY female Gray Warden. Ever.
Tbh there are many things wrong with Duncan. I had 4 Gray Wardens in Origins .. for my City Elf he was just another human trying to enslave and control her - so he was just another human trying take advantage of her, she preferred to get executed for killing the criminal arl son and taking blame all by herself to save Soris. For my Dalish Elf, Duncan basically waves in front of clan "Hey I know how to save him, but I will have to kidnap him so you will never see your beloved clan mate ever again thee-hee" so like .. what's the point of saving if it's just going to be life without those you care about ? With Cousland he basically blackmails your parents .. like my dude, you are in Castle, Castle is under attack. Instead of helping us, you basically blackmail our mother to conscript us against our will. It literally flies in face of saving us, as mother is worried about lineage, and being Gray Warden we shouldn't be nobility anymore - not to mention botched fertility. So lineage is dead if our brother dies on war too.
The only scenario where Duncan isn't a terrible human being, was for my last Circle Mage, only because Jowan is the worst npc there that ever existed (not in entire game, since that's title for Oghren). The worst and the buggiest. But Duncan still was there at best an opportunist .. and I don't know what to say about Irving since he seemed to be first one ready to sell you to Wardens, given his talk with Duncan before Jowan drama started.
Needless to say even on dwarf Aeducan (which my brother played), Duncan was still terrible. When he died both me and my brother cheered on it. And we looked at Allistair like he is insane for crying over him.
Not sure if siding with Larius over Janeka is not canon .. Janeka is clearly from get go possessed.
I agree with your points
Except that while yes wardens have burned down villages and killed innocents to keep them from the dark spawn it’s a much more humane approach since we have seen what darkspawn do to people women In particular
All of this doesn't matter now that the darkspawn have Disnefied.