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I bought this 3M sander because of your video. Really expensive compared to most. It still works (fingers crossed), but it does sometimes shock me. I also spoke with Jeff from 3M. His first response was to make changes on my end (argh) and it was 6 months out of date. Not until I mentioned what you said on this video did he offer to make some repairs IF I paid for shipping. Just cost me $61.00 ground from AR. Disappointing for such a high-end tool. 😩
Great to see 3M's response. It's never about a product having an issue or not, it's about how the company responds to the issue once it's made aware. And 3M seems to be handling this issue very well. I wouldn't expect anything less from 3M, so it's great to see them adjusting and moving forward.
No, it's about competent product design, flawless engineering, and not skimping on manufacturing quality in China just to make an extra buck. No American company should sell expensive tools that breaks to their customers. They should be building tools that will last for decades. A sander should be able to run for hours every day for at least ten years. Separately, running a sander upside down on the bench is not a good test. The sander works a lot harder when... SANDING.
I appreciate that as soon as you realized there was a legitimate issue you took action. Thank you. Integrity and communication are essential and you excel at both. Well done Sir. Please keep up the good work.
Investigative journalism has died in many markets here in 🇨🇦 due to corporate takeovers and budget cuts in newsrooms of all kinds. The work and research you've put into this is extensive - well done, Sir. I hope you fully publish this video once the holiday weekend is in the rearview mirror! Keep up the great work!
Brother, your country and mine have MAJOR issues with "journalism" and politicians. But I have to admit, it's entertaining watching Poilievre destroying journalists. LOL. No one will accuse of of *not* having his mental faculties.
First, trust nothing you read in internet reviews, and especially on reddit! I think it depends on when you bought your sander. The earlier ones, and I don't know the dates, have some issues. I had one of these and it stopped working after not much use. 3M paid for me to ship it to them, fixed it, and had it back to me in 5 days. There was an update to the electronics, and again I don't know when. They installed a new electronics board and it has worked fine ever since. It is the best sander I have ever used. 3M support was excellent. Also, I contacted 3M thru the company I bought the sander from. This company facilitated the interaction. Finally, do you know there is a reset procedure for the sander? It's not in the manual but you can get it from 3M. I've never had to use it, but it's there. Love this sander!!
I have a 6 inch 3m orbital sander. I am so glad you put this information on what to do when a customer has trouble with one of these sanders. I did not have any trouble until after I saw this video. I tried to use this sander a couple of days and it would work for a few minutes and stop. I now this this information. I hope they are willing to fix it for me. I have never spent the amount of money on a hand held sander and I love the way it performs. It does a great job and saves me time as it really cuts the wood. Thanks ever so much----Lyle Denton TX I hope you see this posting.
Matt, First off thank you for doing this video as I was one that responded to you in emails. As far as static for me I never experienced it as I wear Milwaukee Level 1 cut resistance gloves during my woodworking to avoid splinters and overall protection. The gloves are coated and provide better grip to these applications of small tools. The gloves probably prevented me from feeling the extreme heat felt in handling the sander and also probably prevented me from being shocked. I ordered my sander from Amazon. I would think that they rotate through a volume of this products stock but it may have come from a smaller vendor that may have sent it on behalf of Amazon. Now in defense of your reputation and recommendations I bought this sander based on your reviews. I totally agree that it is a very good sander and even with me using a dedicated shop vacuum and rockler hose the dust collection is amazing and it does perform very good as a sanding standpoint. I experience very little dust compared to my other sander. Pair it with 3m cubitron 2 sandpaper and it’s amazing. Yes I do experience the shut down. Your reviews are very much appreciated. I totally support the honest reviews and still would have bought this sander. As far as 3m goes I have a message for you. Like any company should be don’t oust Matt for bringing this video to light. Honor your product, fix the issue, and your business will grow as you take care of your customers regardless of industry or small businesses. Appreciate Matt for being honest on your product and utilize his insight and information as he conducts this based on the level of possible customer base you have. Future businesses that have products that need a better idea and honest review should consider consulting with Matt as he dives deeper into the level of use of the products and a level that reaches professionally, and small business or home based. There are more small businesses that are reached at Matt’s level. Now Matt I got a question. Is there a model or serial number that would be considered “1st generation “ of these sanders.? I’m afraid I’m going to have to send mine off for repair or replacement as it stops too much for me to continue using slowing my work. Thank you for all you do Matt and I will always value your input on tools I plan to purchase!!!
First, kudos on your testing and discovery of possible issues, including lending it out for a third party to check it out. Second, great job with both the tone and content of your questions to 3M. So many people go straight into an aggressive tone when contacting a manufacturer or vendor, poisoning the interaction. Finally, the response from 3M is notably refreshing and transparent. Kudos to all invloved.
Great video and thanks for reaching out to us users. I also had static shock issues with my pervious shop vac set-up, including Cen-Tec "anti-static" hose. But living in CO at 7600ft the dry air is a challenge. After contacting 3M and asking about anti-static protections in their Extract Dust Extractor, there are actually not any dedicated means of protection (were not at the time of my calling over a year ago), I went the Festool CT Midi I HEPA Dust Extractor that was stated to have internal grounding protections and with the cloth covered hose. I've had ZERO issues with this set up. You can also find 3D files online for a 3M to Festool port adapter, so it works seamlessly.
Thank You Matt, for standing up for us little guys and doing some investigative research. As a wanna-be woodworker, I purchased the sander per your review/recommendation, as I believe you conduct open & honest opinions about the products you use. Please, please don't ever lose that integrity. It's what helps you stand out from others with large, YT followers. Thanks again.
Not everyone has the physical ability to operate a palm sander with a dust extraction hose attached. We run ours over a down draft table and they had the same problem within months of use. I bought two of them to replace surfprep sanders. They out performed every sander in the shop when they worked. Great to know that 3m is standing behind this issue. Thanks so much for the video and excellent information you provided sir.
I was one of the respondents to your request about the sander. I've not had a failure but it was interesting to hear about the shocking. I'd forgotten to mention that to you in my reply. I've tolerated it thinking it was just static build up. I now have rubber anti-fatigue matts around the work bench so I'll have to see if the static shocks are still there when I get to the sanding phase of the current project.
I picked up the 6 in about 6 months ago. This is great that you were able to gather this info for the community in the event I have issues with my Sander. I have had no issues so far but I am running it with dust extraction.
I appreciate that you completed the investigation before publishing. Shows integrity like journalists should have. Also, good on 3m for redesigning. Fortunately it doesn’t appear there are any injuries or damage. That also is probably why there isn’t a full on recall. As for the “commercial use only” I’ll bet that if they include that disclaimer (though, clearly not enforced) they fall into a different category of safety certification requirements. “Consumer tools” needing one set and “commercial tools” having another.
What a good video! It is a win-win to see a no-nonsense guy like you interact with a big company and to see that company deal openly and honestly with you concerning these issues about their product. We can conclude that 3M is a responsible company. Every product I have of theirs, including this sander, is of good quality. I recently bought a pair of inexpensive 3M safety glasses. They fit my head perfectly, have good clearance for dust masks, and have no odd pressure points around the ears. Their abrasives are beyond compare. Glad to see the issues in this video worked out on a positive note.
I have this sander.. I use a dust extractor, and I had an issue with this sander where the sander quit working for me. I talked with Taylor Tool works and sent the sander to them, and they worked on the sander and sent it back to me. So far I have not had any issues.. I use the sander about 3 times a week sanding cutting boards.. Roughly 50 boards a week..
Based on your reviews of both the sander and extractor, I purchased both of them and so far no issues with either one. However, I appreciate the update in case anything does come up
I saw some of the same complaints on the 3m sander so I went with the MAXXT sander from Amazon with a 3 year warranty that was almost half the price of the 3m.
It's good to hear there are still companies that still don't just get the money and run. That stands behind their products. And address issues. Love the information, and I wouldn't be discouraged about buying a product that a company stands up for quality issues. And not just ignore!
Thanks for the video. I got one right after 3M released it, I could be described as an active hobbyist and have put hundreds of hours on the clock with this sander. I’ve never had an overheating problem, but mine has shocked me from day one. I always thought it was something to do with my dust extraction. Now I’m thinking I may want to try and get it swapped for a newer variant.
It's great to see you following up on products you've talked about before. I bought this sander a couple of years ago (I think I actually found out about it from Stumpy Nubs). I don't use it regularly, but when I do, I use it for hours at a time. I haven't had any problems with it but I always use dust collection while sanding, no matter what sander I'm using. Personally I always recommend everyone to use dust collection with sanders; I don't see any reason not to.
My guess regarding it being an “industrial only” application points to why these failures happen. In an industrial setting you’re guaranteed to see proper dust extraction. The hobbyist… hit or miss. And this thing needs that dust extraction or it’ll fry itself. Not sure why anyone would run a sander without at least a shop vac hooked up to it. Especially given the price of these things. If you can afford one, there is zero excuse to not have something to hook it up to. Kinda like buying a Domino when your only other shop tools are a hammer and a butter knife. 🤷♂️
@@Mr.Meme01 I honestly can’t fathom why anyone would ever buy a palm sander for that price lol. I’ve got the same Dewalt one he shows, and it’s awesome. Why on earth would I ever want to pay nearly 8x as much money for something that isn’t even 2x as good? It’s a better sander for sure… but gimme a break lol.
@HeliRy I had the dewalt sander for several years and upgraded it to the 3M and the difference is significant. Sanding for hours is no longer a problem or painful on the hands. I also just use a shop vac as the dust extraction and that works fine. Never had any of these problems with the 3M thankfully.
Appreciate the video. As someone who bought the sander, the shock problem has been very frustrating. I understand first gen products has issues and have no problem supporting a brand that does the right thing which it sounds like 3m is doing. Kudos to 3m and hopefully they will choose to work with you in the future.
I love my sander!! Mine over heated once and then I learned about how important using the dust extractor is. Ever since then, I haven't had any issues.
Bought this sander at the end of 2022. Used it for a couple weeks, paused for winter and then came back to a dead sander. I opened it up to see if I could fix the issue. I couldn't, but I did find the issue for my unit. There is a heatsink on the underside of the main PCB that is held in place by two screws. One mounts into the center of a plastic plate and one mounts at the edge. The one at the edge stripped through the plastic that it mounts to, allowing the heatsink to separate from the PCB on that side. My guess is that the temp sensor is located on the side that still had heat sink contact, so the machine thought it was cool enough to operate, so it never shut itself off before frying itself. Unfortunately the entire PCB is sealed in some protective coating, so I couldn't peep any components to see what burned. I did send an email to @3M, but got a generic support response and decided to just ignore the problem. Glad they're taking responsibility for this now. Maybe I can get it replaced
Hey, thanks for this. My sander recently failed and I replaced it. Used very good dust extraction and not overusing with very little downward pressure. Definately defective! I already contacted Tay tools where I purchased it. Hopefully I can get it fixed or preferably replaced with a newer model. Thanks again!
My makita palm sander and my 2 Porter Cable, Made in the USA, 35 years old, still are in great shape. Brushes, bearings, pads still perfect. These were used professionally for 15 years. I maintain and repair everything, trucks, car, boats, tools, equipment etc etc.
I purchased one as soon as they came out. I couldn’t be happier. I also have Bosch sanders GET75 and GEX33 and rate them almost as well. I haven’t run a sander without dust collection in at least a decade. I use either an older Porter Cable tool activated vacuum. Or a Fien dust extractor / vacuum also tool activated. Never been shocked, I have an epoxy floor. I never spend more $ than I have to for my tools and I make my living as a cabinet maker.
Similar thing happened to my sander - after some use it would slow down and shut down. Turns out there is a sealed ball bearing (quite easily accessible - right above the pad) which was clogged with dust. Quick clean and its good as new and stopped building up the heat so quickly. I guess the heat warped the ball bearing seal - I will swap it for a new one eventually.
I have one and I have experienced both the static shock and also the random shutoffs. I think I can attribute it to 2 specific things. I 100% of the time used it connected to a festool dust extractor. The static issue was the hose. I had the 3m quick connect hose for connecting to different tools. That hose is not anti static, so it would shock the crap out of you. I swapped out to the festool anti static hose. The second issue with the random shutoffs is a bit of an odd one. I did inlays with Totalboat Razzo which is a plaster/drywall type material. So sanding a stone material rather than wood is also what caused an immense amount of static and I think it basically shorted itself out into turning itself of and you would have to restart. I sent that unit to 3M to get repaired and when I got it back, the exact same issues occured immediately upon sanding the razzo. I have not tried again since switching over to the anti static hose.
Glad you made the video! I have the same exact sander and I’ve had it 2 years, zero problems with it overheating and shutting off, but it does shock me. Strangely it only shocks me when I sand epoxy. Idk why. But I’m looking forward to the new design! Hopefully 3M will allow us to exchange our older models for the newer better version free of charge.
I had the exact same issue about 2 months ago, roughly 13 months after the purchase. The sander would not turn on and the LEDs would flash a few times. I use sander infrequently, just during weekends. I was very upset as I decided to buy 3M instead of a Festool. So after a lot of looking around, I was able to find the support number your shared. I called it and left a message without much hope of a response. But to my surprise I got a call back from Jeff the same day and though my sander was out of warranty, he said they will repair the sander. I was provided a shipping label and I had the sander back within 3 days. Jeff told me that it was a faulty motherboard. I don’t have a dust extractor but I do use a shop vac connected to a dust deputy. I have a feeling that because of dust deputy, there is loss of airflow.
I just got two of the sanders in the last couple weeks. I hope I got the newer ones but I doubt it. Thanks Matt for the work in bringing this to the forefront
One sander I rarely see anyone discuss or review is the Bosch 1250devs. I’ve had one for years and I think it stacks up well with any of the higher end ROS sanders like Festool, 3M, etc. Especially when you factor in the price. I don’t know if you’ve used one, but since you do a lot of review and comparison videos, I’d recommend taking a look at the Bosch 1250.
Really respect you making this video, I bought the 3M a few months ago after seeing the dozens of 5 star youtube videos on it. Then noticed the terrible reviews on amazon and 3M's site but couldn't find any social media but reddit talking about the issues. Returned and bought the Festool ets ec 150, just for peace of mind. But really wish this video was out a few months ago to reassure me in the right direction.
I bought this sander 18 months ago, partially based on 731's review. Mine will overheat after 15 minutes continuous sanding and refuse to start again, I've found that I can 'jump start it' by turning down the speed all the way, spinning the pad by hand and then turning it on while its still spinning. It will speed up properly after it gets running. Yes, I use dust collection and no I dont press down on it. When it works, it works great.
I bought the 6", 3/16" when they first released just over 2 years ago. During that time, I used it maybe a total of 6 hours runtime (have other Festool sanders) and always with my Festool Midi. It just died on me today. No beeping, no LEDs, and no spinning when I went to use it today. It worked a couple weeks ago and just failed while sitting in its storage spot not even plugged in.
While I've not experienced a failure I have noticed a heat issue with my orbital sanders specifically when not using a dust extractor or wet/dry vac. My Dewalt 26451 [corded] recently started slowing down with the dust sock on. Removing the sock and connecting my dust extractor it returns to normal speed. I too have a 3M Xtract and have experienced the flashing leds and too hot to hold, never a complete shut down when dust extraction wasn't running. However, I also work in a home garage with no AC during 100 degree day.
I suspect the biggest issue with that sander is shop vac that have limited suction. I had simular problem in cnc feild the fine dust clogs the filter fast. You do not clean out filter and it puts negative preasure on sander causing over heat and shutdown failure. For our first shop vac cnc we literally had to remove filter and blow dust to a 5 micron box outside. Now we use a proper dust collector. But every 8 hours we tap filters snd remove all dust.
I was using mine yesterday for sanding drawer box sides, and also realized that is was getting hot, with dust extraction. I let it cool for an hour, while I made dinner, and it was still warm after an hour and a half. I have the 6" version, and use a festool ct15 dust extractor. Granted, I was sanding for over 6 hours yesterday, but I've never had a sander get that warm while using an extractor. Its never shut off on me though.
I've had mine for just over 6 months I've always used it with the dust extractor. I've sanded cars, my brother has done wood table tops and epoxy tables with no issues, it's a work horse. I do let the sander do the work and am NOT pushing down on the sander while using it. I think you just need to know how to use it and have it set up right with the correct sanding pads to allow air flow.
I have the 6" version of that sander... after watching your review of it. I've been nothing but pleased with it. That said, I don't use mine as much as many other folks use there, but when I do use it, it's great! Some times I attach my ShopVac to mine when I'm indoors and sometimes I don't (when I'm outdoors), but I've not had it fail yet. I've not noticed it getting too hot, but I'll pay attention from here on out. When I was watching you talk about the issue, I thought a small fan, like is used to keep CPU's cool in computers might be a good solution. Sounds like 3M thought so as well. Making it where you can have access to the cooling fan to clean it, would be a BIG PLUS! Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention! I do enjoy your content a LOT!
I had considered purchasing this one after your original video and before I bought my Mirka Deros, but a cabinetmaker friend of mine had told me he had bad experiences with it. No regrets with my Mirka whatsoever
I’ve returned my 6” twice for repairs, after the second repair I’ve had no problems. Tech support was great and the sander was still under warranty. I have a 5” and have no problems. Both are close to two years old. They are both heavily used with a dust extractor. Festool.
I’ve had my 3m sander for about 6 months. No issues with it while sanding wood. I just used it to sand drywall in a 12x25’ room, all walls and ceiling. This would probably be considered tool abuse, but it did the job and with a shop vac attached, the dust was considerably reduced. Never experienced the shutting down of the sander, but if I didn’t keep-in contact with the drywall with another part of my body it would shock the hell out of me. Not just an occasional shock, but repetitive shocks like every 2 seconds until you touched the drywall or quit sanding. I’m finished with that job now, but I’m sure I’ll need to give the sander a good blowing out before I use it again.
Thanks for this video. I was considering the 3M sander when I eventually upgrade, but now think I will steer away from it. They seem to be in the business of gatekeeping with their "For industrial/occupational use only. Not for consumer sale or use" statement.
I actually got mine right after you did your initial review. I've used it extensively. I build a lot of furniture. So far I have not had a single issue. I do use dust extraction. I did notice the shock if I held my fingers in the middle of the sand near those small holes that look like vents on the side of the sander. But if I held it how your supposed to no issues. Anyways I'd buy it again. Great sander
Companies sell cars that cost way more with way worse issues sometimes, and in many cases they simply refuse to cover in warranty. We shouldn't be surprised that a version 1 product might have issues. What's important is that 3M hold themselves responsible and replace any faulty units.
Great video Matt! I have the 3M sander and no issues (but I use an extractor). Good information about the issue and thank you for reaching out to 3M and sharing the followup info!! Would love to see a followup review/testing of the new sander with the changes!
I don't understand. If you're spending this kind of money on a sander, why not just get the Festool? It's an excellent sander and holds value extremely well when you sell it in the future.
Great review. I haven't had any issues with my 3M Xtract. I do use a Festool extractor. Sounds Like 3M is doing a good job standing by their work. Hopefully.. You sound like an engineer doing the review.
As much as I wanted it to work, as you stated I couldn't hold on to it for 30 seconds without it shocking the fire out of me. Hooked up to a Festool CT48AC dust extractor with anti shock hose. Blame it on epoxy floor? Maybe. I'm not a scientist. Bought a Festool 150 sander..zero issues, performs extremely well. Would like to see your review of the 150. I have the 125 and use both depending upon the application. Love the GREEN Koolaid!😊
Thanks again Matt. I've had my 3M Sander for almost 2 years with no isues and use it almost daily for my Etsy shop business. BUT, I "always" have it connected to my Dewalt shop vac.
I have one and it works great, I use it and my Festool sanders about 50% of the time. I do use a dust extractor "Festool" all the time but having a Powermatic drum sander the hand sanders get light use and I don't stand on them. Weight of the sander is more than enough to get the job done.
Matt I called 3M and they Asked me to return the Extract Sander and they will repair if free of charge!!!! AMEN!! If anyone asks about this 3M has a phone number to call and they will fix the sander no cost 1 time if it's out of warranty. Thought you should know!
As someone who has been considering this sander (amd, in part, based on your earlier review), I truly appreciate your honesty and the fact that you work to try to get to the bottom of this. My thought was the same as yours... I think I'll hold off for a while and let it play out. My DeWalt sanders are still up to the task! lol Thanks again, Matt!
Purchased the 5mm orbit 5" version and used in my shop approximately 2 times a week always with dust extractor hooked up. Lasted only 13 months. I did return to 3m through there special set up to repair. Sander came back supposedly fixed, lasted 3 minutes and quit. 3m took the sander back again and was to be totally rebuilt. I received the sander back and have been using the last few months with no issues. This rebuilt version will no longer cut on my Festool dust extractor on the auto setting. I have to manually turn on the extractor. 3m did pay shipping and was quick to turn it around. This was an expensive sander but I needed a 5mm orbit in a 5" sander, festool does not make a 5mm in a 5" only a 6". It does sand quick, and mostly swirl free especially for a 5 mm orbit.
I purchased the 6" ROS with a 3/16 stroke a month ago. Used it for the first time last weekend. Never used it without a shop Vac / Oneida dust separator connected and running. I never ran it for long periods of time (maybe 30 minutes at a time). I didn't even get 2 hours of total run time before it shut itself off and will not turn back on (even after sitting overnight to cool down). I contacted 3M and was told I would have to go through Amazon to get a replacement. Amazon would not replace it because I was 4-doys past their 30-day policy. I got back in touch with 3M and now have to send it in to be repaired. So, I will now be without the sander for however long it takes to ship it to 3M, have it repaired and returned. Very frustrating.
I've used mine with a ct midi collector its whole life, It died last November in this fashion, just dies while sanding. It was a month out of warranty and 3m refused to do anything about it. I'll reach out to them again and see if this has changed that at all. p.s. I loved this sander but as am a "professional hobbiest" and work for a festool dealer I ended up swapping to a festool.
The only time I've experienced any issues with the sander was with HUGE sanding projects. Like whole kitchen of butcher block countertops and even then it took a good while to get to that point.
I cross shopped this one and the Festool and ended up with the Bosch GET75. It has a finish mode and a turbo gear mode like the Rotex but can be had for 1/3 the price. It's only downsides are it's kinda harsh sounding and it's a big boy. They do make a 5" too.
I have this sander, and didn't do your initial survey. Bought in Jan 2023 when it was on sale, but didn't really start using it a bunch until this year. Never had an issue but I am always using dust extraction. One really interesting thing about it is that even when it's off, but still plugged in, it's warm. It's consuming enough power to generate enough heat to be warm. And not just like lukewarm, but literally 100 degrees warm, so this heat issue goes beyond just general cooling. How could it possibly generate enough heat when COMPLETELY OFF? Sounds like poor power conversion components that divert waste energy to heat. I've also been shocked by it, but not a regular thing. I should say that I love this sander. It's excellent, and so much better than my dewalt 20v.
Matthew, Great video, as always. The way you keep chunkin' the 3M down on the bench, I get the feeling that you are over it. I guess, when the Festool caught your roving eye, along with troubles at home with the 3M, that relationship was on the rocks and a breakup was bound to happen.
I have used quite a bit of different sanders and I stick to Bosch. I have 5” one and it’s 10 years old hasn’t missed a beat. For the price it’s hard to justify paying that much for me.
I know this isn't one of your videos on how to use a tool but I would like to ask if you would talk about how to use a router on a sled to plan a board and how to use a handheld power plan.
They probably say it's for professional use because they designed it with the assumption it's hooked up to a high powered dust extractor like the one they make. Most amateurs don't have a $500 vacuum. It still doesn't excuse the flaws, but at least they seem to be supporting customers when they have issues.
Mine lasted 1 year, then lights out. I called 3m and they would do nothing about it, said it was beyond warranty. So.....I bought a Festool. I used a dust extraction with it.
Mine was great for months but I did get the red lights once (with a Festool CT 15) but never happened again. Started getting shocked often even with the anti-static hose.
I do not own the 3M sander, I was very much considering when it was first released. I do own the same Festool sander (for almost 2 years) you bought for this video and I have been very pleased with it. It has worked flawlessly. What was your initial feeling on this vs the 3M?
The fans in these sanders is essentially a modified squirrel cage fan, A squirrel cage fan is high dependent on the blade geometry to move air, if the blade geometry is disturbed by as little as 10 percent the airflow is reduced by 90 percent. So my question is: what type of wood is being sanded? Is it a resinous wood, or sticky wood? Has anyone torn one of these sanders apart and checked the fan blades?
When you first talked about the 3m sander, i looked up the reviews and there were quite a few of bad reviews, so i didnt buy one. People back then were complaining about their sanders failing! The reviews were not good.
I purchased this sander off of your review. I also had my sander 100% die with mild light use. They did refund my money, most of it…. I went back to Festool and have been happy with my choice.
thank you i do have the problem of it over heating. i use dust extraction on all the sanding i do it doesn't. take long at all before it stops. no shocking though.
Great report! This is however a huge screwup for 3M. This is a very expensive sander and non of these issues should happen. They must issue a recall and fix or replace every sander sold. This is a brand-destroying mess and if they don’t act quickly they will cede this sector to Festool and other pro brands.
this a great video Matt. when researching to invest in a sander, I looked into this one. I was pumped to get it but I'll admit the reviews I read were less than stellar. That's basically what pushed me away from getting it because the information wasn't there as to what's going on. I ended up getting the festool Random Orbital Sander ETS EC 125/3 EQ-Plus. It's been an amazing sander for me. But now that this video is out I may one day purchase this sander and have the info needed to be confident in the purchase and product to bring to my channel the ce tool den.
Thank you for making this video, but the answer is not inadequate dust extraction. I bought the sander and it died about 2 months later. Always used with a 3M dust extractor. Taylor Toolworks helped me get it replaced by 3M. Supposedly a board issue. I was sent a “next generation” sander. Lasted about 6 months of light use before it failed again. Once again Taylor assisted with getting a replacement. I should also add that the first sander generated a ridiculous amount of static electricity (I do think its static) and provided frequent small shocks. It would be an understatement to say I’m not a fan and would never recommend it. I also suspect your friend from 3M is being disingenuous about the number of failures. Unfortunate because it actually worked well-when it works.
I'd go complain about that remark on Reddit, but then someone would complain about my complaint, which would then be complained about... I can't speak to the Festool (look, I can buy their stuff or pay my mortgage. Not both) but that DeWalt sander has an internal fan to cool itself and collect dust into the "bag" (it doesn't work well, but it sure does try) if you aren't using it with any kind of dust collection. That 3M sander being an industrial tool is also probably made to handle some of the nastier materials - fiberglass, epoxies, resins, polyurethanes, etc. - all of which produce a fine, fairly abrasive and generally "sticky" dust that doesn't like to come off. As a result, it may have tighter internal tolerances to keep that stuff contained, and there is probably a minimum CFM rating it's "recommended" to be used with. As you've proven, it's definitely not designed to run without it. The static shocks would be affected by the humidity levels in the air and would be worse / more common in areas with a dry climate.
I always use the Fein I turbo extractor 151CFM one. Never had an issue with it. I guess I'll never use it w/o a dust extractor to be on the safe side (both my lungs and the tool not dying! 😱) But glad to know 3M is replacing them (for now anyway)
My guess is they say for industrial use because it's probably more common into a shop that they use a shopvac(?) probably the avarage private user doesn't use a shop vac
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Hey can you do a update on the new Milwaukee sanders please the new m12 and m18 and the m12 3in orbital sander please
I bought this 3M sander because of your video. Really expensive compared to most. It still works (fingers crossed), but it does sometimes shock me.
I also spoke with Jeff from 3M. His first response was to make changes on my end (argh) and it was 6 months out of date. Not until I mentioned what you said on this video did he offer to make some repairs IF I paid for shipping. Just cost me $61.00 ground from AR.
Disappointing for such a high-end tool. 😩
Great to see 3M's response. It's never about a product having an issue or not, it's about how the company responds to the issue once it's made aware. And 3M seems to be handling this issue very well. I wouldn't expect anything less from 3M, so it's great to see them adjusting and moving forward.
Great to know I went with festool lol.
No, it's about competent product design, flawless engineering, and not skimping on manufacturing quality in China just to make an extra buck.
No American company should sell expensive tools that breaks to their customers. They should be building tools that will last for decades. A sander should be able to run for hours every day for at least ten years.
Separately, running a sander upside down on the bench is not a good test. The sander works a lot harder when... SANDING.
I appreciate that as soon as you realized there was a legitimate issue you took action. Thank you. Integrity and communication are essential and you excel at both. Well done Sir. Please keep up the good work.
THIS! Indeed...this!
I just recently started watching his content and this video makes me trust him so much more
Investigative journalism has died in many markets here in 🇨🇦 due to corporate takeovers and budget cuts in newsrooms of all kinds. The work and research you've put into this is extensive - well done, Sir. I hope you fully publish this video once the holiday weekend is in the rearview mirror! Keep up the great work!
Brother, your country and mine have MAJOR issues with "journalism" and politicians. But I have to admit, it's entertaining watching Poilievre destroying journalists. LOL. No one will accuse of of *not* having his mental faculties.
@@hansangb BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Okay.
First, trust nothing you read in internet reviews, and especially on reddit!
I think it depends on when you bought your sander. The earlier ones, and I don't know the dates, have some issues. I had one of these and it stopped working after not much use. 3M paid for me to ship it to them, fixed it, and had it back to me in 5 days. There was an update to the electronics, and again I don't know when. They installed a new electronics board and it has worked fine ever since. It is the best sander I have ever used. 3M support was excellent. Also, I contacted 3M thru the company I bought the sander from. This company facilitated the interaction. Finally, do you know there is a reset procedure for the sander? It's not in the manual but you can get it from 3M. I've never had to use it, but it's there. Love this sander!!
This is why I like your chanel, you keep it real for everyone not just your pocket book. Like a lot of other chanels do. Thx Matt
I have a 6 inch 3m orbital sander. I am so glad you put this information on what to do when a customer has trouble with one of these sanders. I did not have any trouble until after I saw this video. I tried to use this sander a couple of days and it would work for a few minutes and stop. I now this this information. I hope they are willing to fix it for me. I have never spent the amount of money on a hand held sander and I love the way it performs. It does a great job and saves me time as it really cuts the wood. Thanks ever so much----Lyle Denton TX I hope you see this posting.
Good job, Matt. You looked out for your audience and put them first. You have a lot integrity.
100% agree
Matt,
First off thank you for doing this video as I was one that responded to you in emails. As far as static for me I never experienced it as I wear Milwaukee Level 1 cut resistance gloves during my woodworking to avoid splinters and overall protection. The gloves are coated and provide better grip to these applications of small tools. The gloves probably prevented me from feeling the extreme heat felt in handling the sander and also probably prevented me from being shocked. I ordered my sander from Amazon. I would think that they rotate through a volume of this products stock but it may have come from a smaller vendor that may have sent it on behalf of Amazon. Now in defense of your reputation and recommendations I bought this sander based on your reviews. I totally agree that it is a very good sander and even with me using a dedicated shop vacuum and rockler hose the dust collection is amazing and it does perform very good as a sanding standpoint. I experience very little dust compared to my other sander. Pair it with 3m cubitron 2 sandpaper and it’s amazing. Yes I do experience the shut down.
Your reviews are very much appreciated. I totally support the honest reviews and still would have bought this sander. As far as 3m goes I have a message for you. Like any company should be don’t oust Matt for bringing this video to light. Honor your product, fix the issue, and your business will grow as you take care of your customers regardless of industry or small businesses. Appreciate Matt for being honest on your product and utilize his insight and information as he conducts this based on the level of possible customer base you have.
Future businesses that have products that need a better idea and honest review should consider consulting with Matt as he dives deeper into the level of use of the products and a level that reaches professionally, and small business or home based. There are more small businesses that are reached at Matt’s level.
Now Matt I got a question. Is there a model or serial number that would be considered “1st generation “ of these sanders.? I’m afraid I’m going to have to send mine off for repair or replacement as it stops too much for me to continue using slowing my work.
Thank you for all you do Matt and I will always value your input on tools I plan to purchase!!!
First, kudos on your testing and discovery of possible issues, including lending it out for a third party to check it out. Second, great job with both the tone and content of your questions to 3M. So many people go straight into an aggressive tone when contacting a manufacturer or vendor, poisoning the interaction. Finally, the response from 3M is notably refreshing and transparent. Kudos to all invloved.
You did a Fantastic job researching the problem areas and putting it all out there for your audience. Thank you for having our by.😁
Great video and thanks for reaching out to us users. I also had static shock issues with my pervious shop vac set-up, including Cen-Tec "anti-static" hose. But living in CO at 7600ft the dry air is a challenge. After contacting 3M and asking about anti-static protections in their Extract Dust Extractor, there are actually not any dedicated means of protection (were not at the time of my calling over a year ago), I went the Festool CT Midi I HEPA Dust Extractor that was stated to have internal grounding protections and with the cloth covered hose. I've had ZERO issues with this set up. You can also find 3D files online for a 3M to Festool port adapter, so it works seamlessly.
Thank You Matt, for standing up for us little guys and doing some investigative research. As a wanna-be woodworker, I purchased the sander per your review/recommendation, as I believe you conduct open & honest opinions about the products you use. Please, please don't ever lose that integrity. It's what helps you stand out from others with large, YT followers. Thanks again.
thank you
Not everyone has the physical ability to operate a palm sander with a dust extraction hose attached. We run ours over a down draft table and they had the same problem within months of use. I bought two of them to replace surfprep sanders. They out performed every sander in the shop when they worked.
Great to know that 3m is standing behind this issue.
Thanks so much for the video and excellent information you provided sir.
I was one of the respondents to your request about the sander. I've not had a failure but it was interesting to hear about the shocking. I'd forgotten to mention that to you in my reply. I've tolerated it thinking it was just static build up. I now have rubber anti-fatigue matts around the work bench so I'll have to see if the static shocks are still there when I get to the sanding phase of the current project.
I picked up the 6 in about 6 months ago. This is great that you were able to gather this info for the community in the event I have issues with my Sander.
I have had no issues so far but I am running it with dust extraction.
I appreciate that you completed the investigation before publishing. Shows integrity like journalists should have.
Also, good on 3m for redesigning. Fortunately it doesn’t appear there are any injuries or damage. That also is probably why there isn’t a full on recall.
As for the “commercial use only” I’ll bet that if they include that disclaimer (though, clearly not enforced) they fall into a different category of safety certification requirements. “Consumer tools” needing one set and “commercial tools” having another.
What a good video! It is a win-win to see a no-nonsense guy like you interact with a big company and to see that company deal openly and honestly with you concerning these issues about their product. We can conclude that 3M is a responsible company. Every product I have of theirs, including this sander, is of good quality. I recently bought a pair of inexpensive 3M safety glasses. They fit my head perfectly, have good clearance for dust masks, and have no odd pressure points around the ears. Their abrasives are beyond compare. Glad to see the issues in this video worked out on a positive note.
As usual, your integrity shines through. State the facts, and truth is revealed.
I have this sander.. I use a dust extractor, and I had an issue with this sander where the sander quit working for me. I talked with Taylor Tool works and sent the sander to them, and they worked on the sander and sent it back to me.
So far I have not had any issues.. I use the sander about 3 times a week sanding cutting boards.. Roughly 50 boards a week..
My Bosch sander I bought after watching your video shocks me as well. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. No dust extraction.
Based on your reviews of both the sander and extractor, I purchased both of them and so far no issues with either one. However, I appreciate the update in case anything does come up
I saw some of the same complaints on the 3m sander so I went with the MAXXT sander from Amazon with a 3 year warranty that was almost half the price of the 3m.
It's good to hear there are still companies that still don't just get the money and run. That stands behind their products. And address issues. Love the information, and I wouldn't be discouraged about buying a product that a company stands up for quality issues. And not just ignore!
I looked at various sanders, reviews costs and other research.. I ended up with the Maxxt 150mm .. it’s been a total joy to use.
Thanks for the video. I got one right after 3M released it, I could be described as an active hobbyist and have put hundreds of hours on the clock with this sander. I’ve never had an overheating problem, but mine has shocked me from day one. I always thought it was something to do with my dust extraction. Now I’m thinking I may want to try and get it swapped for a newer variant.
The Mirka 650 Deros is a great sander. I use it to remove edger marks out of hardwood floors
It's great to see you following up on products you've talked about before. I bought this sander a couple of years ago (I think I actually found out about it from Stumpy Nubs). I don't use it regularly, but when I do, I use it for hours at a time. I haven't had any problems with it but I always use dust collection while sanding, no matter what sander I'm using. Personally I always recommend everyone to use dust collection with sanders; I don't see any reason not to.
My guess regarding it being an “industrial only” application points to why these failures happen. In an industrial setting you’re guaranteed to see proper dust extraction. The hobbyist… hit or miss. And this thing needs that dust extraction or it’ll fry itself.
Not sure why anyone would run a sander without at least a shop vac hooked up to it. Especially given the price of these things. If you can afford one, there is zero excuse to not have something to hook it up to. Kinda like buying a Domino when your only other shop tools are a hammer and a butter knife. 🤷♂️
Exactly what I was thinking, what kind of guys are buying these high end sanders and not at least connecting a vacuum to them?
@@Mr.Meme01
I honestly can’t fathom why anyone would ever buy a palm sander for that price lol. I’ve got the same Dewalt one he shows, and it’s awesome. Why on earth would I ever want to pay nearly 8x as much money for something that isn’t even 2x as good? It’s a better sander for sure… but gimme a break lol.
Once you use an expensive sander for four hours a day you will understand why people buy them
@@lancem5965
Yeah fair enough lol
@HeliRy I had the dewalt sander for several years and upgraded it to the 3M and the difference is significant. Sanding for hours is no longer a problem or painful on the hands. I also just use a shop vac as the dust extraction and that works fine. Never had any of these problems with the 3M thankfully.
Appreciate the video. As someone who bought the sander, the shock problem has been very frustrating. I understand first gen products has issues and have no problem supporting a brand that does the right thing which it sounds like 3m is doing. Kudos to 3m and hopefully they will choose to work with you in the future.
I love my sander!! Mine over heated once and then I learned about how important using the dust extractor is. Ever since then, I haven't had any issues.
Bought this sander at the end of 2022. Used it for a couple weeks, paused for winter and then came back to a dead sander. I opened it up to see if I could fix the issue. I couldn't, but I did find the issue for my unit. There is a heatsink on the underside of the main PCB that is held in place by two screws. One mounts into the center of a plastic plate and one mounts at the edge. The one at the edge stripped through the plastic that it mounts to, allowing the heatsink to separate from the PCB on that side. My guess is that the temp sensor is located on the side that still had heat sink contact, so the machine thought it was cool enough to operate, so it never shut itself off before frying itself. Unfortunately the entire PCB is sealed in some protective coating, so I couldn't peep any components to see what burned. I did send an email to @3M, but got a generic support response and decided to just ignore the problem. Glad they're taking responsibility for this now. Maybe I can get it replaced
Hey, thanks for this. My sander recently failed and I replaced it. Used very good dust extraction and not overusing with very little downward pressure. Definately defective! I already contacted Tay tools where I purchased it. Hopefully I can get it fixed or preferably replaced with a newer model.
Thanks again!
My makita palm sander and my 2 Porter Cable, Made in the USA, 35 years old, still are in great shape. Brushes, bearings, pads still perfect. These were used professionally for 15 years. I maintain and repair everything, trucks, car, boats, tools, equipment etc etc.
I purchased one as soon as they came out. I couldn’t be happier. I also have Bosch sanders GET75 and GEX33 and rate them almost as well. I haven’t run a sander without dust collection in at least a decade. I use either an older Porter Cable tool activated vacuum. Or a Fien dust extractor / vacuum also tool activated. Never been shocked, I have an epoxy floor. I never spend more $ than I have to for my tools and I make my living as a cabinet maker.
Similar thing happened to my sander - after some use it would slow down and shut down. Turns out there is a sealed ball bearing (quite easily accessible - right above the pad) which was clogged with dust. Quick clean and its good as new and stopped building up the heat so quickly. I guess the heat warped the ball bearing seal - I will swap it for a new one eventually.
I have one and I have experienced both the static shock and also the random shutoffs. I think I can attribute it to 2 specific things. I 100% of the time used it connected to a festool dust extractor. The static issue was the hose. I had the 3m quick connect hose for connecting to different tools. That hose is not anti static, so it would shock the crap out of you. I swapped out to the festool anti static hose. The second issue with the random shutoffs is a bit of an odd one. I did inlays with Totalboat Razzo which is a plaster/drywall type material. So sanding a stone material rather than wood is also what caused an immense amount of static and I think it basically shorted itself out into turning itself of and you would have to restart. I sent that unit to 3M to get repaired and when I got it back, the exact same issues occured immediately upon sanding the razzo. I have not tried again since switching over to the anti static hose.
Glad you made the video! I have the same exact sander and I’ve had it 2 years, zero problems with it overheating and shutting off, but it does shock me. Strangely it only shocks me when I sand epoxy. Idk why. But I’m looking forward to the new design! Hopefully 3M will allow us to exchange our older models for the newer better version free of charge.
I had the exact same issue about 2 months ago, roughly 13 months after the purchase. The sander would not turn on and the LEDs would flash a few times. I use sander infrequently, just during weekends. I was very upset as I decided to buy 3M instead of a Festool. So after a lot of looking around, I was able to find the support number your shared. I called it and left a message without much hope of a response. But to my surprise I got a call back from Jeff the same day and though my sander was out of warranty, he said they will repair the sander. I was provided a shipping label and I had the sander back within 3 days. Jeff told me that it was a faulty motherboard. I don’t have a dust extractor but I do use a shop vac connected to a dust deputy. I have a feeling that because of dust deputy, there is loss of airflow.
I just got two of the sanders in the last couple weeks. I hope I got the newer ones but I doubt it. Thanks Matt for the work in bringing this to the forefront
I will continue to use my dust extractor. I have never had issues, but always used the dust extractor. I am happy.
One sander I rarely see anyone discuss or review is the Bosch 1250devs. I’ve had one for years and I think it stacks up well with any of the higher end ROS sanders like Festool, 3M, etc. Especially when you factor in the price.
I don’t know if you’ve used one, but since you do a lot of review and comparison videos, I’d recommend taking a look at the Bosch 1250.
Really respect you making this video, I bought the 3M a few months ago after seeing the dozens of 5 star youtube videos on it. Then noticed the terrible reviews on amazon and 3M's site but couldn't find any social media but reddit talking about the issues. Returned and bought the Festool ets ec 150, just for peace of mind. But really wish this video was out a few months ago to reassure me in the right direction.
I bought this sander 18 months ago, partially based on 731's review. Mine will overheat after 15 minutes continuous sanding and refuse to start again, I've found that I can 'jump start it' by turning down the speed all the way, spinning the pad by hand and then turning it on while its still spinning. It will speed up properly after it gets running. Yes, I use dust collection and no I dont press down on it. When it works, it works great.
Nicely done and well researched sir.
I got mine a few years ago and have no regrets!
I bought the 6", 3/16" when they first released just over 2 years ago. During that time, I used it maybe a total of 6 hours runtime (have other Festool sanders) and always with my Festool Midi. It just died on me today. No beeping, no LEDs, and no spinning when I went to use it today. It worked a couple weeks ago and just failed while sitting in its storage spot not even plugged in.
Hey man glad to see you got graphics that work for this video. Sorry it didn’t work out between us!
While I've not experienced a failure I have noticed a heat issue with my orbital sanders specifically when not using a dust extractor or wet/dry vac. My Dewalt 26451 [corded] recently started slowing down with the dust sock on. Removing the sock and connecting my dust extractor it returns to normal speed. I too have a 3M Xtract and have experienced the flashing leds and too hot to hold, never a complete shut down when dust extraction wasn't running. However, I also work in a home garage with no AC during 100 degree day.
The solution: separate engine cooling and aluminum base that dissipates the heat.
See for example the Metabo SXE 3150. Thanks for your video.
Excellent video! Very well organized and thought out. As others have stated, 3M’s response makes all the difference.
I suspect the biggest issue with that sander is shop vac that have limited suction. I had simular problem in cnc feild the fine dust clogs the filter fast. You do not clean out filter and it puts negative preasure on sander causing over heat and shutdown failure. For our first shop vac cnc we literally had to remove filter and blow dust to a 5 micron box outside. Now we use a proper dust collector. But every 8 hours we tap filters snd remove all dust.
I was using mine yesterday for sanding drawer box sides, and also realized that is was getting hot, with dust extraction. I let it cool for an hour, while I made dinner, and it was still warm after an hour and a half. I have the 6" version, and use a festool ct15 dust extractor. Granted, I was sanding for over 6 hours yesterday, but I've never had a sander get that warm while using an extractor. Its never shut off on me though.
I've had mine for just over 6 months I've always used it with the dust extractor. I've sanded cars, my brother has done wood table tops and epoxy tables with no issues, it's a work horse. I do let the sander do the work and am NOT pushing down on the sander while using it. I think you just need to know how to use it and have it set up right with the correct sanding pads to allow air flow.
I have the 6" version of that sander... after watching your review of it. I've been nothing but pleased with it. That said, I don't use mine as much as many other folks use there, but when I do use it, it's great! Some times I attach my ShopVac to mine when I'm indoors and sometimes I don't (when I'm outdoors), but I've not had it fail yet. I've not noticed it getting too hot, but I'll pay attention from here on out.
When I was watching you talk about the issue, I thought a small fan, like is used to keep CPU's cool in computers might be a good solution. Sounds like 3M thought so as well. Making it where you can have access to the cooling fan to clean it, would be a BIG PLUS!
Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention! I do enjoy your content a LOT!
I had considered purchasing this one after your original video and before I bought my Mirka Deros, but a cabinetmaker friend of mine had told me he had bad experiences with it. No regrets with my Mirka whatsoever
I’ve returned my 6” twice for repairs, after the second repair I’ve had no problems. Tech support was great and the sander was still under warranty. I have a 5” and have no problems. Both are close to two years old. They are both heavily used with a dust extractor. Festool.
I’ve had my 3m sander for about 6 months. No issues with it while sanding wood. I just used it to sand drywall in a 12x25’ room, all walls and ceiling. This would probably be considered tool abuse, but it did the job and with a shop vac attached, the dust was considerably reduced. Never experienced the shutting down of the sander, but if I didn’t keep-in contact with the drywall with another part of my body it would shock the hell out of me. Not just an occasional shock, but repetitive shocks like every 2 seconds until you touched the drywall or quit sanding. I’m finished with that job now, but I’m sure I’ll need to give the sander a good blowing out before I use it again.
Thanks for this video. I was considering the 3M sander when I eventually upgrade, but now think I will steer away from it. They seem to be in the business of gatekeeping with their "For industrial/occupational use only. Not for consumer sale or use" statement.
I actually got mine right after you did your initial review. I've used it extensively. I build a lot of furniture. So far I have not had a single issue. I do use dust extraction. I did notice the shock if I held my fingers in the middle of the sand near those small holes that look like vents on the side of the sander. But if I held it how your supposed to no issues. Anyways I'd buy it again. Great sander
Companies sell cars that cost way more with way worse issues sometimes, and in many cases they simply refuse to cover in warranty. We shouldn't be surprised that a version 1 product might have issues. What's important is that 3M hold themselves responsible and replace any faulty units.
Great video Matt! I have the 3M sander and no issues (but I use an extractor). Good information about the issue and thank you for reaching out to 3M and sharing the followup info!! Would love to see a followup review/testing of the new sander with the changes!
I don't understand. If you're spending this kind of money on a sander, why not just get the Festool? It's an excellent sander and holds value extremely well when you sell it in the future.
Great review. I haven't had any issues with my 3M Xtract. I do use a Festool extractor. Sounds Like 3M is doing a good job standing by their work. Hopefully.. You sound like an engineer doing the review.
Thanks 👍
As much as I wanted it to work, as you stated I couldn't hold on to it for 30 seconds without it shocking the fire out of me. Hooked up to a Festool CT48AC dust extractor with anti shock hose. Blame it on epoxy floor? Maybe. I'm not a scientist. Bought a Festool 150 sander..zero issues, performs extremely well. Would like to see your review of the 150. I have the 125 and use both depending upon the application. Love the GREEN Koolaid!😊
Thanks again Matt. I've had my 3M Sander for almost 2 years with no isues and use it almost daily for my Etsy shop business. BUT, I "always" have it connected to my Dewalt shop vac.
Thanks for sharing
I have one and it works great, I use it and my Festool sanders about 50% of the time. I do use a dust extractor "Festool" all the time but having a Powermatic drum sander the hand sanders get light use and I don't stand on them. Weight of the sander is more than enough to get the job done.
Matt I called 3M and they Asked me to return the Extract Sander and they will repair if free of charge!!!! AMEN!! If anyone asks about this 3M has a phone number to call and they will fix the sander no cost 1 time if it's out of warranty. Thought you should know!
I love mine purchased about a year ago however I use dust extraction love this but thank you for the heads up bless you Sir
I noticed the same thing, you have to use the vacuum. I couldn’t believe how hot it got!
As someone who has been considering this sander (amd, in part, based on your earlier review), I truly appreciate your honesty and the fact that you work to try to get to the bottom of this. My thought was the same as yours... I think I'll hold off for a while and let it play out. My DeWalt sanders are still up to the task! lol
Thanks again, Matt!
Purchased the 5mm orbit 5" version and used in my shop approximately 2 times a week always with dust extractor hooked up. Lasted only 13 months. I did return to 3m through there special set up to repair. Sander came back supposedly fixed, lasted 3 minutes and quit. 3m took the sander back again and was to be totally rebuilt. I received the sander back and have been using the last few months with no issues. This rebuilt version will no longer cut on my Festool dust extractor on the auto setting. I have to manually turn on the extractor. 3m did pay shipping and was quick to turn it around.
This was an expensive sander but I needed a 5mm orbit in a 5" sander, festool does not make a 5mm in a 5" only a 6". It does sand quick, and mostly swirl free especially for a 5 mm orbit.
Matt, kudos to you. You are a champion for consumers. Your honesty is so appreciated. From one God fairing human being to another…..thank you.
Thanks for your investigation!!
I will make sure i keep it hooked up to solid air flow!
I purchased the 6" ROS with a 3/16 stroke a month ago. Used it for the first time last weekend. Never used it without a shop Vac / Oneida dust separator connected and running. I never ran it for long periods of time (maybe 30 minutes at a time). I didn't even get 2 hours of total run time before it shut itself off and will not turn back on (even after sitting overnight to cool down). I contacted 3M and was told I would have to go through Amazon to get a replacement. Amazon would not replace it because I was 4-doys past their 30-day policy. I got back in touch with 3M and now have to send it in to be repaired. So, I will now be without the sander for however long it takes to ship it to 3M, have it repaired and returned. Very frustrating.
I've used mine with a ct midi collector its whole life, It died last November in this fashion, just dies while sanding. It was a month out of warranty and 3m refused to do anything about it. I'll reach out to them again and see if this has changed that at all.
p.s. I loved this sander but as am a "professional hobbiest" and work for a festool dealer I ended up swapping to a festool.
The only time I've experienced any issues with the sander was with HUGE sanding projects. Like whole kitchen of butcher block countertops and even then it took a good while to get to that point.
I cross shopped this one and the Festool and ended up with the Bosch GET75. It has a finish mode and a turbo gear mode like the Rotex but can be had for 1/3 the price. It's only downsides are it's kinda harsh sounding and it's a big boy. They do make a 5" too.
I have this sander, and didn't do your initial survey. Bought in Jan 2023 when it was on sale, but didn't really start using it a bunch until this year. Never had an issue but I am always using dust extraction. One really interesting thing about it is that even when it's off, but still plugged in, it's warm. It's consuming enough power to generate enough heat to be warm. And not just like lukewarm, but literally 100 degrees warm, so this heat issue goes beyond just general cooling. How could it possibly generate enough heat when COMPLETELY OFF? Sounds like poor power conversion components that divert waste energy to heat. I've also been shocked by it, but not a regular thing. I should say that I love this sander. It's excellent, and so much better than my dewalt 20v.
Matthew,
Great video, as always. The way you keep chunkin' the 3M down on the bench, I get the feeling that you are over it. I guess, when the Festool caught your roving eye, along with troubles at home with the 3M, that relationship was on the rocks and a breakup was bound to happen.
I have used quite a bit of different sanders and I stick to Bosch. I have 5” one and it’s 10 years old hasn’t missed a beat. For the price it’s hard to justify paying that much for me.
I know this isn't one of your videos on how to use a tool but I would like to ask if you would talk about how to use a router on a sled to plan a board and how to use a handheld power plan.
They probably say it's for professional use because they designed it with the assumption it's hooked up to a high powered dust extractor like the one they make. Most amateurs don't have a $500 vacuum.
It still doesn't excuse the flaws, but at least they seem to be supporting customers when they have issues.
Mine lasted 1 year, then lights out. I called 3m and they would do nothing about it, said it was beyond warranty. So.....I bought a Festool. I used a dust extraction with it.
Always been my understanding you definitely want dust collection hooked up just because it performs better, makes complete sense it helps cooling..
Mine was great for months but I did get the red lights once (with a Festool CT 15) but never happened again. Started getting shocked often even with the anti-static hose.
I do not own the 3M sander, I was very much considering when it was first released. I do own the same Festool sander (for almost 2 years) you bought for this video and I have been very pleased with it. It has worked flawlessly. What was your initial feeling on this vs the 3M?
Nice work Mighty Matt!!
Thanks!
You also have Mirka Deros that is similar to the 3M, they keep fighting for years without giving up.
The fans in these sanders is essentially a modified squirrel cage fan, A squirrel cage fan is high dependent on the blade geometry to move air, if the blade geometry is disturbed by as little as 10 percent the airflow is reduced by 90 percent. So my question is: what type of wood is being sanded? Is it a resinous wood, or sticky wood? Has anyone torn one of these sanders apart and checked the fan blades?
I use my dewalt sander a lot (many hours a week)and it has NEVER overheated. It is attached to a vacume. Which i use with it 100%.
When you first talked about the 3m sander, i looked up the reviews and there were quite a few of bad reviews, so i didnt buy one. People back then were complaining about their sanders failing! The reviews were not good.
I purchased this sander off of your review. I also had my sander 100% die with mild light use. They did refund my money, most of it…. I went back to Festool and have been happy with my choice.
thank you i do have the problem of it over heating. i use dust extraction on all the sanding i do it doesn't. take long at all before it stops. no shocking though.
Great report! This is however a huge screwup for 3M. This is a very expensive sander and non of these issues should happen. They must issue a recall and fix or replace every sander sold. This is a brand-destroying mess and if they don’t act quickly they will cede this sector to Festool and other pro brands.
this a great video Matt. when researching to invest in a sander, I looked into this one. I was pumped to get it but I'll admit the reviews I read were less than stellar. That's basically what pushed me away from getting it because the information wasn't there as to what's going on. I ended up getting the festool Random Orbital Sander ETS EC 125/3 EQ-Plus. It's been an amazing sander for me. But now that this video is out I may one day purchase this sander and have the info needed to be confident in the purchase and product to bring to my channel the ce tool den.
Thank you for making this video, but the answer is not inadequate dust extraction. I bought the sander and it died about 2 months later. Always used with a 3M dust extractor. Taylor Toolworks helped me get it replaced by 3M. Supposedly a board issue. I was sent a “next generation” sander. Lasted about 6 months of light use before it failed again. Once again Taylor assisted with getting a replacement. I should also add that the first sander generated a ridiculous amount of static electricity (I do think its static) and provided frequent small shocks. It would be an understatement to say I’m not a fan and would never recommend it. I also suspect your friend from 3M is being disingenuous about the number of failures. Unfortunate because it actually worked well-when it works.
I have experienced the small shock issue that has me worried.
Mine has been outstanding, but I have rarely used it without dust collection. I also have an Airvantage thats a similar design thats also been great
I'd go complain about that remark on Reddit, but then someone would complain about my complaint, which would then be complained about...
I can't speak to the Festool (look, I can buy their stuff or pay my mortgage. Not both) but that DeWalt sander has an internal fan to cool itself and collect dust into the "bag" (it doesn't work well, but it sure does try) if you aren't using it with any kind of dust collection.
That 3M sander being an industrial tool is also probably made to handle some of the nastier materials - fiberglass, epoxies, resins, polyurethanes, etc. - all of which produce a fine, fairly abrasive and generally "sticky" dust that doesn't like to come off. As a result, it may have tighter internal tolerances to keep that stuff contained, and there is probably a minimum CFM rating it's "recommended" to be used with. As you've proven, it's definitely not designed to run without it.
The static shocks would be affected by the humidity levels in the air and would be worse / more common in areas with a dry climate.
Lol
I always use the Fein I turbo extractor 151CFM one. Never had an issue with it. I guess I'll never use it w/o a dust extractor to be on the safe side (both my lungs and the tool not dying! 😱) But glad to know 3M is replacing them (for now anyway)
My guess is they say for industrial use because it's probably more common into a shop that they use a shopvac(?) probably the avarage private user doesn't use a shop vac