Just watched your channel over the last couple of days, I am amazed with your knowledge and dedication to restoring the old Cats and machines that helped our country build America. Absolutely will be with you in journey rebuilding our history.
I can only say thanks: lockdown in the UK has given me time to watch 80+ 5J113 videos, and it’s been great to see someone who has such a great depth of knowledge and enthusiasm, combined with real hands on skills, tell a story about an interesting project in such a clear way. (And a bonus is the occasional trip out into your locality: looks like a great place to live). I’m looking forward to the next update. Thanks again.
Always the best tutorial...thanks for all the info and tips. Looking forward to this entire starting engine series, including the 5 carburetor rebuild videos from Sr. I'm sure you know, your knowledge sharing is going to extend the life of many Cats. All of us Cat fans and owners are indebted to you for all of your efforts!!
These videos are very helpful. I have 2 starting motors that I need to take apart and make a good one out of. These videos are detailed and I love the extra commentary about the different year setups. Thanks. I always look forward to new video's from you.
Another fascinating "archeological" expedition of early Caterpillar engines. It's neat to see how they engineered built things during the slide rule era. Keep up the good work!
It's amazing how anyone can not realize they're creating a serious problem not paying attention to end play like that that's so obvious. All of that damage could easily have been avoided well before it happened. But then we wouldn't have had so interesting an episode of Toby explaining all that he found.
That was fascinating Squatchman! Thanks for that. What tough little suckers those 'simple' little things are; that one had lived an absolutely horrible life before it died.
Actually was expecting far worse things come out from that starting engine. My guess is why the pin is missing is the last guy who worked on that engine, did not remember to put it back.
Very well done. Looked like displaced metal in main bearing dowel pin hole. If alignment was not correct and pin was forced in, hole was oversized and bearing material was displaced. Happened often on air cooled VW pinned engine main bearing. Always leads to bearing failure.
Hold everything! Rainy Sat morning and you pull through. Was waiting for starting motor info and details and you came across awesomely. I needed info on Mag timing marks. who'd of thought they are hidden below that pipe plug!
I remember the magneto on our old d2 had a broken shaft in it so I had to replace the shaft and re time the unit but that was so long ago I had forgotten.. I think ours was a 1952 model same as me.. lol...Cheers; Mike in Louisiana
Well that's good to hear ... I have a potentially viable starting engine block so all I need to do is get another later style manifold - Super! 12A04040 starting engine was off a 3200 or 3400 style; my engine is a D311 and the two starting engine manifolds are NOT compatible - like you said the exhaust and coolant passages were accessed differently. I have about 1/32 endplay no radial moment but a ton gear lash (gnash hehe). Farther down the rabbit hole we go (I'm late, I'm late for a very important date....) 12A08263 pony - O' man, has so much, what feels like piston pin or rod crank slop.. clank spin the crank, spin the crank and clank in the other direction. has potential 12A03563 pony - Newly rebuilt by previous owner :) but when I got it home (carrying it in) the retaining pin for the OLD crank bearing fell out all rusted. So I'm going to tear it back down and recheck all the specs. Thanks so much for the information it really dose help. Also thank you for letting me use you as a sounding board ... helps me think things through. UPDATE: 12A03563 pony, popped the manifold and looked inside, the retaining pin to the bearing in question was not seated all the way ... curiouser and curiouser
@ 13:40 You started talking about the aluminum oil drain tube on the older style pony engines and how it is common for them to break off because they hang out kinda far. WHAT FOR IT! Well I was pulling the big belly pan on a 1958 Cat 12A04040 Traxcavator and you will never, never, never guess what treasures I found in the oil soaked gack in the pan. The counter part to your aluminum oil drain ... I found the aluminum tube AND a bolt plug WITH a copper washer. I probably shouldn't be so supersized due to them commonly breaking off. I'll clean it up (but leave the patina) and be sending you the tube the first chance I get. The manifold (and probably pony engine were the earlier style) most likely came off a 3400 or 4400 with a casting date of "UU UM RA" (11/12/45); I didn't find a casting date on the pony block and right now I'm too tired and sore to look. The pony block needs some minor TLC before it needs MAJOR TLC or even the recycle bin. The valves are sharp so they have given her all she's got capt'n ... The manifold back coolant passage was blocked off with some aluminum plate and JB weld also the elbow on the D315 head was brazed up so it did not circulate coolant with the diesel engine. I'm making a video of it and it should be up in a week or so.
Great instruction videos .. i have a D2 # 5U14451 . a man borrowed my cat and the pony motor mag. gear teeth broke off just like the one you show in this video .he took the mag. off replaced the broken gear . put it back together and then stated using my cat again . :>( ...i have my cat home now and plan on fixing it properly .. where do you think the broken teeth ended up in the motor ??? how much damage do these broken pieces did to the other gears .??? how do i get the pieces out ??? whats your best guess how long before the new gear on the mag breaks again ??? thanks so much for all your great help. God bless ! jim
Thanks for the videos! You sure know the old Cats. Is there a way to determine if the diesel motor on my D2 Cat is free without starting the pony motor, and without taking the front of the Cat apart? The 1950 Cat has been sitting for 15+ years. The pony motor turns but won't start - no spark.
Cool beans. A lot of good parts or reconditionible parts . We just run the old Fairbanks Morris hit and miss engine for the first time after rebuilding it . I posted it on Facebook . Sounds really good. Have a great day everyone we are. 😊😊😊😊💥🌎👍👍👍👍💝🍻🍻🍵🍵☕☕
With a belt driven governor, is there a safety provision to prevent wide open throttle if the belt breaks? Or does the engine run wide open all the time anyway?
Can you share the manifold water seal replacement selected service shared in the video? I bought the correct seal with metal plate from CAT and it is twice the width of the compressed one I removed that also had the metal plate. New one looks like rubber is nice and new and the old one removed the rubber is very compressed. Is there a recommendation to heat and soften or grease the new seal to replace it with the pony motor and manifold in place?
Squatch, where is the 5 part series on the carb rebuild? Your videos pushed me over the edge to purchase an old D4 that I've just started to work on - just tore down the starting motor and the carb is first on my rebuild list. Also, it is just my D4 or is the carb assembly impossible to remove without first removing the bowl assembly? Zero access to the flange nut.
@@squatch253 ah makes sense, looking forward to you picking that build series back up. I'm in the Pacific north west so I understand the seasonal work needs (rains just stated here so perfect time to do some shop work). Thanks for the reply!
Great video Squatch, I love the way the valves, guides and springs come out as a unit. Looks like they had a right dingleberry rebuild the motor last time. I am surprised at the amount of clearance in the big end bearings considering how good the bearings and crank look, were the nuts even tight? You definitely have a rebuild-able engine there....worth hanging on to given the fact that good ones are getting as rare as hens teeth.
Two years ago if you told me Id be watching a guy tear down old Cats to rebuild them for fun Id of laughed. Yet here i am fascinated by the entire process. Question - are these starting motors linked up to the cat in such a way that the starter motor could physically move the Cat? IE the diesel set to decompress and such? Enjoying the vid as always.
Squatch253 you are never going to believe what I just discovered. I’ve been watching for about two years now. This week I was telling my son in law of 1 year that owns about 800 acres in northern Michigan that I wanted to bulldoze a runway to land at so we can visit him and my daughter more often. I told him I had been watching a channel about rebuilding a D2 and was learning a lot about it. “Oh we have a D4 on the farm.” WHAT! “It needs work on the right side linkage and the hydrologic pump needs rebuilding cause it leaks, but other than that it runs great.” “Oh and the pony motor needs a tune up”. And would you believe. I’m watching that series right now! Dang how cool is this! Now I’m looking for the “Rebuilding a D4” series.
Squatch, really enjoyed seeing inside the starting engine. Are the main wear items like pistons, rings, bearings, valves and guides available new, NOS, or aftermarket? I remember you had 2 freshly ground cranks, so I'm assuming you have already sourced matching bearings for those cranks. I wouldn't write off that block yet, even if the main bore is oversized from the spun bearing, it could be sleeved and bored back to size, the cylinder could also be sleeved or bored 0.030 if pistons were available. I would much sooner sleeve cylinder bores and crank bearing bores before I messed with trying to repair a frozen or cracked block. Great video update!
@@squatch253 if you need a shop to sleeve a block let me know, I have a good friend with a machine shop south of Detroit. One of the ones I used to work at. Thanks for the reply on parts availability. Might come down to making valves for other applications work soon, nothing a lathe can't fix.
@@squatch253 I have heard that some racing valve companies can take an existing valve and build a duplicate from stainless steel. However, You would need to order more valves than I would imagine the Caterpillar community would ever need. I know that if undersized crank bearings aren't available, it is possible to nickel spray weld crank journals back to standard. I have heard that the spray nickel is tough stuff, and might resist wear better than the iron or steel that the original crank was made of. Some companies can apply an antifriction coating to used pistons so that they are a few thousandths of an inch wider, and will last longer. Most of this stuff I see is found on repairing rare cars that sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I don't know if this is economical to use any of this tech on a Cat D2.
Here's a question after seeing the rust chunks. Would you recommend using a waterless antifreeze in these to help prevent rust or would that even help?
As Squatch mentioned in a previous video relating to these starter engines that, as you say `runs very little`, they have an approximate life expectancy of about 250 hrs run time, before needing rebuilding. Everyone`s mileage will vary on the total hours, but my take on it all, is that paying attention to this little starter motor, draining the oil at or before recommended intervals can help you reach or exceed the forecast life expectancy... whereas ignoring it until it fails, could be its early undoing. Today, we don`t pay any attention to an electric starter whatsoever until it fails to start the main engine. At that point, we remove it, and either send it for rebuild, or straight up buy another one to replace it. Pay all kinds of attention to our main motor(s), but ignore the starter until it craps out. So back to these starter motors. Yes, complicated, considering that they are just starter motors that run very little, but considering how important they are, I feel that they deserve to be a lot more appreciated than some owners do.
My old RD6 was hand crank only. As I recall, the mag. was separate from the starter block and exhaust, very loud, was not router through the diesel. Most likely very early RD6.
So are the crank thrust bearings available in an oversize od and an undersize id.. that bearing bore might be sleeved and the sleeve held in place with tapered thread crack repair pins before rebooting to centerline and size..a boring bar could easily be created to fixture in the removable cover to bore that back to proper size. And do the sleeve bore cut also.
@@squatch253 www.enginebuildermag.com/2000/09/heavy-duty-details-damaged-main-and-cam-bearing-saddles-can-be-successfully-repaired-by-sleeving/ in case you missed the article in that obscure magazine..
A number of parts in this pony engine would have been standard and used across other applications, electric generator, water pump engines, snow machines etc. And these would've been manufactured widely from the US to Canada. Cross referencing will pinpoint the right part, although I am sure you have already done so. But look in Canada as well for like those over size pistons.
I have a silly question, but it's been burning in my brain.... hypothetically speaking could the starting motor pull the whole tractor if needed? For example if for some reason you were out of diesel or catastrophic damage happened to the diesel engine. My guess is no, but I had to ask.
Well, I can see a rebuildable engine there, but with all the other starting engines that you have, and engine blocks, I'm just wondering if you'll waist time on this block. Great video, thanks for sharing....
Thank you Toby! I don't want to be alarmist, and I know you'll check anyway, but was the con-rod on the second piston you took out straight? It may have been a trick of the camera, or my slightly waffy eyesight, but it looked a little curved to me! Anyway, excellent video! :-)
awesome video Squatch...... quick question: what camera are you using and what video editing program? your videos are turning out excellent, good work.
@@squatch253 I didn't notice the second set when I saw you building the shortblock. And yeah, the oils back then were barely more than cleaned up crude, so I understand that. How much do modern oils extend the life of these little pony engines? You mentioned a 200 hour life, but I'm sure that was when they used the oil almost a hundred years ago.
@@octane613 He mentioned an approx. 250hr life expectancy. I wrote out a comment (in that video) saying that I figure that the old oil against modern oil wouldn`t have much difference to offer, as much as the difference that is made by draining whatever oil out and replacing it with fresh stuff at or before reaching the interval. The oil`s job is to suspend contaminants. Contaminants can include metal shavings, bearing wear, foreign liquids including antifreeze, fuel(s), moisture from a number of sources. What matters more to you? Having a more modern oil in your engine, or changing out whatever is in there to ensure that fresh clean oil is lubricating things ? The more modern oils can withstand more heat, more contaminants (to a certain degree, of course) than the older stuff of 70+ years ago before it begins to break down. The trouble is, do you want to wait until your modern motor oil begins breaking down before you change it, or just go ahead and get it out of there, and replace it with fresh stuff... cost be damned. The oil is cheap; the labor and parts to rebuild are significantly more. So, back to your question of how much do modern oils extend the life of one of these pony engines. I`d be inclined to believe not a whole lot, but I`d still be changing the oil fairly regularly, if for no other reason than peace of mind, to know that I have clean stuff in there. It`s not so much about how long the oil itself can last, as it is about getting the contaminants the hell out of the engine. Just my two cents.
Those oil control rings are just a single piece of iron with grooved cut in it. Modern American and Japanese gasoline engines usually have a 3 piece ring, and European gasoline and most diesels have a 2 piece ring. Those performed better, that is why so many engines went with one oil control ring. In this video, a Plymouth flathead was originally equipped with two single piece oil rings, but EGGE decided to make all their pistons with one three piece oil ring: th-cam.com/video/uQaBYDnjgxs/w-d-xo.html I think the logic is that if nobody makes any new single piece oil rings, why build pistons designed for single piece oil rings? People would have to locate NOS ring packs if they really wanted to copy OEM.
hey a you tuber called salvage workshop is having a problem with his pony motor mag has broken gear, bent mag arm shaft from probly lose crankshaft , there you go wheel n deal ,i like watch n yr show
Some times i wonder why they didnt use tapered roller bearings on the mains in them type pony engines like Wisconsin vf4 and even the two cylinder Wisconsin engines had any we just called them wisconsin baler engines after all that is a splash type oiling system
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It's simplistic elegance. It's beautiful. I never thought of a pony motor in those terms until I found your channel.
Just watched your channel over the last couple of days, I am amazed with your knowledge and dedication to restoring the old Cats and machines that helped our country build America. Absolutely will be with you in journey rebuilding our history.
I can only say thanks: lockdown in the UK has given me time to watch 80+ 5J113 videos, and it’s been great to see someone who has such a great depth of knowledge and enthusiasm, combined with real hands on skills, tell a story about an interesting project in such a clear way. (And a bonus is the occasional trip out into your locality: looks like a great place to live). I’m looking forward to the next update. Thanks again.
Always the best tutorial...thanks for all the info and tips. Looking forward to this entire starting engine series, including the 5 carburetor rebuild videos from Sr. I'm sure you know, your knowledge sharing is going to extend the life of many Cats. All of us Cat fans and owners are indebted to you for all of your efforts!!
These videos are very helpful. I have 2 starting motors that I need to take apart and make a good one out of. These videos are detailed and I love the extra commentary about the different year setups. Thanks. I always look forward to new video's from you.
Another fascinating "archeological" expedition of early Caterpillar engines. It's neat to see how they engineered built things during the slide rule era. Keep up the good work!
It's amazing how anyone can not realize they're creating a serious problem not paying attention to end play like that that's so obvious.
All of that damage could easily have been avoided well before it happened.
But then we wouldn't have had so interesting an episode of Toby explaining all that he found.
Perfect... nice weekend weather and a new 1113 episode! Ha. Thank you Toby for taking us along.
Love the valve arrangement, no faffing around to remove collets, very neat.
That was fascinating Squatchman! Thanks for that. What tough little suckers those 'simple' little things are; that one had lived an absolutely horrible life before it died.
I like that modular valve assembly from a service perspective. Pretty cool.
Thanks for doing this video. I am familiar with the AC pony gas engine for a 1950’s AC ag doxer and was hoping to see this sine I found your channel.
Why grind the crank? If my memory serves me correctly a beer can is about the size you need to make up that clearance :)
Ahhh: That would depend on the brand of beer! Not all cans are created equal :-))).
Please post a LINK TTo Seniors auxiliary Motor series.? And what is all the tubing inside for.?.? Oil system, or.?.?
Actually was expecting far worse things come out from that starting engine. My guess is why the pin is missing is the last guy who worked on that engine, did not remember to put it back.
Amazing how simple those motors are. Simpler things are easier to fix I guess. Great video
Very well done. Looked like displaced metal in main bearing dowel pin hole. If alignment was not correct and pin was forced in, hole was oversized and bearing material was displaced. Happened often on air cooled VW pinned engine main bearing. Always leads to bearing failure.
Top of the line Bro, good show as usual 😀
Thanks again Toby....looking forward to the next video...stay healthy
The valves are mounted in there the exact same as in an 8N ford the size is probably different but it’s neat to see that the technology is the same
Hold everything! Rainy Sat morning and you pull through. Was waiting for starting motor info and details and you came across awesomely. I needed info on Mag timing marks. who'd of thought they are hidden below that pipe plug!
Wow, this engine is kind of like my BMW 500CC motorcycle. Opposed piston. Those are big cylinders for a small engine. Cool video. :-)
When Zeigler Caterpillar calls you for knowledge of starting engine repairs, you have a Ace in the hole for hard to find parts .😀
worked on many 10 and 20 hp opposed pistons air-cooled with a magneto 6 hp too.
I remember the magneto on our old d2 had a broken shaft in it so I had to replace the shaft and re time the unit but that was so long ago I had forgotten.. I think ours was a 1952 model same as me.. lol...Cheers; Mike in Louisiana
Really good to see that u have some salvageable parts from the engine great video as usual 👍
Can’t get enough of these videos.
You're wearing a white tee-shirt while working on an engine. Mad props to ya.
Do you have a video on how you reassemble one?
Thanks for sharing! Looks like you caught it before it shelled out!
Well that's good to hear ... I have a potentially viable starting engine block so all I need to do is get another later style manifold - Super! 12A04040 starting engine was off a 3200 or 3400 style; my engine is a D311 and the two starting engine manifolds are NOT compatible - like you said the exhaust and coolant passages were accessed differently.
I have about 1/32 endplay no radial moment but a ton gear lash (gnash hehe). Farther down the rabbit hole we go (I'm late, I'm late for a very important date....)
12A08263 pony - O' man, has so much, what feels like piston pin or rod crank slop.. clank spin the crank, spin the crank and clank in the other direction. has potential
12A03563 pony - Newly rebuilt by previous owner :) but when I got it home (carrying it in) the retaining pin for the OLD crank bearing fell out all rusted. So I'm going to tear it back down and recheck all the specs.
Thanks so much for the information it really dose help.
Also thank you for letting me use you as a sounding board ... helps me think things through.
UPDATE: 12A03563 pony, popped the manifold and looked inside, the retaining pin to the bearing in question was not seated all the way ... curiouser and curiouser
@@squatch253 Thanks.
@ 13:40 You started talking about the aluminum oil drain tube on the older style pony engines and how it is common for them to break off because they hang out kinda far. WHAT FOR IT! Well I was pulling the big belly pan on a 1958 Cat 12A04040 Traxcavator and you will never, never, never guess what treasures I found in the oil soaked gack in the pan. The counter part to your aluminum oil drain ... I found the aluminum tube AND a bolt plug WITH a copper washer. I probably shouldn't be so supersized due to them commonly breaking off. I'll clean it up (but leave the patina) and be sending you the tube the first chance I get.
The manifold (and probably pony engine were the earlier style) most likely came off a 3400 or 4400 with a casting date of "UU UM RA" (11/12/45); I didn't find a casting date on the pony block and right now I'm too tired and sore to look. The pony block needs some minor TLC before it needs MAJOR TLC or even the recycle bin. The valves are sharp so they have given her all she's got capt'n ...
The manifold back coolant passage was blocked off with some aluminum plate and JB weld also the elbow on the D315 head was brazed up so it did not circulate coolant with the diesel engine. I'm making a video of it and it should be up in a week or so.
Great instruction videos .. i have a D2 # 5U14451 . a man borrowed my cat and the pony motor mag. gear teeth broke off just like the one you show in this video .he took the mag. off replaced the broken gear . put it back together and then stated using my cat again . :>( ...i have my cat home now and plan on fixing it properly .. where do you think the broken teeth ended up in the motor ??? how much damage do these broken pieces did to the other gears .??? how do i get the pieces out ??? whats your best guess how long before the new gear on the mag breaks again ??? thanks so much for all your great help. God bless ! jim
Thanks for the videos! You sure know the old Cats. Is there a way to determine if the diesel motor on my D2 Cat is free without starting the pony motor, and without taking the front of the Cat apart? The 1950 Cat has been sitting for 15+ years. The pony motor turns but won't start - no spark.
Cool beans. A lot of good parts or reconditionible parts . We just run the old Fairbanks Morris hit and miss engine for the first time after rebuilding it . I posted it on Facebook . Sounds really good.
Have a great day everyone we are. 😊😊😊😊💥🌎👍👍👍👍💝🍻🍻🍵🍵☕☕
@@squatch253 yes the excitement can be overwhelming 😊
Cat did a good job packaging that heavy little engine.
Great video of the tear down. Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic video. Explains a lot to me. Thanks very much.
Just finished chasing the Peach Truck down!!! Got home kicked the Squatch Tube on the TV and enjoyed the show eating my peaches!!!!
Finaly got my old D71956 17A main engine loose and running now i can pull the engine down and change whatever parts need replaced
Engine sat with out a cover over exaust for ten years no doubt sleeves and rings need changed
Hilarious! "We're gonna get right into it today with no introduction." Followed by TWO separate introductions.
With a belt driven governor, is there a safety provision to prevent wide open throttle if the belt breaks? Or does the engine run wide open all the time anyway?
Can you share the manifold water seal replacement selected service shared in the video? I bought the correct seal with metal plate from CAT and it is twice the width of the compressed one I removed that also had the metal plate. New one looks like rubber is nice and new and the old one removed the rubber is very compressed. Is there a recommendation to heat and soften or grease the new seal to replace it with the pony motor and manifold in place?
Nice entertainment for a rainy Saturday.
Squatch, where is the 5 part series on the carb rebuild? Your videos pushed me over the edge to purchase an old D4 that I've just started to work on - just tore down the starting motor and the carb is first on my rebuild list. Also, it is just my D4 or is the carb assembly impossible to remove without first removing the bowl assembly? Zero access to the flange nut.
@@squatch253 ah makes sense, looking forward to you picking that build series back up. I'm in the Pacific north west so I understand the seasonal work needs (rains just stated here so perfect time to do some shop work). Thanks for the reply!
Great video looking forward to this build
Why is the timing mark a M?
Great video Squatch, I love the way the valves, guides and springs come out as a unit. Looks like they had a right dingleberry rebuild the motor last time. I am surprised at the amount of clearance in the big end bearings considering how good the bearings and crank look, were the nuts even tight?
You definitely have a rebuild-able engine there....worth hanging on to given the fact that good ones are getting as rare as hens teeth.
Thanks for more free knowledge and a great video 👍👍👍
Two years ago if you told me Id be watching a guy tear down old Cats to rebuild them for fun Id of laughed. Yet here i am fascinated by the entire process.
Question - are these starting motors linked up to the cat in such a way that the starter motor could physically move the Cat? IE the diesel set to decompress and such?
Enjoying the vid as always.
@@squatch253 WOW . but ya gota do what ya gota do! Great question and answer. Thanks
I just saw this question. Thank you for answering it! It answered my question I just posted as well!
Same for the John Deere's I won a slow race by using the pony engine with the tractor in low gear to crawl along the course. :-)
Squatch253 you are never going to believe what I just discovered. I’ve been watching for about two years now. This week I was telling my son in law of 1 year that owns about 800 acres in northern Michigan that I wanted to bulldoze a runway to land at so we can visit him and my daughter more often. I told him I had been watching a channel about rebuilding a D2 and was learning a lot about it. “Oh we have a D4 on the farm.” WHAT! “It needs work on the right side linkage and the hydrologic pump needs rebuilding cause it leaks, but other than that it runs great.” “Oh and the pony motor needs a tune up”. And would you believe. I’m watching that series right now! Dang how cool is this! Now I’m looking for the “Rebuilding a D4” series.
What's the displacement on them?
Squatch, really enjoyed seeing inside the starting engine. Are the main wear items like pistons, rings, bearings, valves and guides available new, NOS, or aftermarket? I remember you had 2 freshly ground cranks, so I'm assuming you have already sourced matching bearings for those cranks. I wouldn't write off that block yet, even if the main bore is oversized from the spun bearing, it could be sleeved and bored back to size, the cylinder could also be sleeved or bored 0.030 if pistons were available. I would much sooner sleeve cylinder bores and crank bearing bores before I messed with trying to repair a frozen or cracked block. Great video update!
@@squatch253 if you need a shop to sleeve a block let me know, I have a good friend with a machine shop south of Detroit. One of the ones I used to work at. Thanks for the reply on parts availability. Might come down to making valves for other applications work soon, nothing a lathe can't fix.
@@squatch253 I have heard that some racing valve companies can take an existing valve and build a duplicate from stainless steel. However, You would need to order more valves than I would imagine the Caterpillar community would ever need. I know that if undersized crank bearings aren't available, it is possible to nickel spray weld crank journals back to standard. I have heard that the spray nickel is tough stuff, and might resist wear better than the iron or steel that the original crank was made of.
Some companies can apply an antifriction coating to used pistons so that they are a few thousandths of an inch wider, and will last longer. Most of this stuff I see is found on repairing rare cars that sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I don't know if this is economical to use any of this tech on a Cat D2.
Great video, please keep it coming.
Cheers
Did these starting engines run on gasoline hence the spark plugs?
Very good video great information.
Where is a good place to source cat starting engine parts for a D4 6U dozer?
Ok how do you line the timing Mark's up when the hole is against the 4ccyl. Desiel ?
Nice job, thanks!!!
Thanks for taking me to school today.
Here's a question after seeing the rust chunks. Would you recommend using a waterless antifreeze in these to help prevent rust or would that even help?
Just use a modern antifreeze with a proper anti corrosion package.
There are waterless coolant available on the market that are useful for decades why go back to normal?
Im thinking a bronze bushing lightly pressed into that rear main bearing would fix your issues.
Can't believe those rod bearings didn't look worse considering how that crank was so loose.
Very interesting. Quite a complicated engine set-up considering it's just a starter engine who runs very little.
As Squatch mentioned in a previous video relating to these starter engines that, as you say `runs very little`, they have an approximate life expectancy of about 250 hrs run time, before needing rebuilding. Everyone`s mileage will vary on the total hours, but my take on it all, is that paying attention to this little starter motor, draining the oil at or before recommended intervals can help you reach or exceed the forecast life expectancy... whereas ignoring it until it fails, could be its early undoing. Today, we don`t pay any attention to an electric starter whatsoever until it fails to start the main engine. At that point, we remove it, and either send it for rebuild, or straight up buy another one to replace it. Pay all kinds of attention to our main motor(s), but ignore the starter until it craps out. So back to these starter motors. Yes, complicated, considering that they are just starter motors that run very little, but considering how important they are, I feel that they deserve to be a lot more appreciated than some owners do.
She was close to taking herself apart!!
My old RD6 was hand crank only. As I recall, the mag. was separate from the starter block and exhaust, very loud, was not router through the diesel. Most likely very early RD6.
9:40, looks like what happened to Salvage Workshop's starting engine on his track loader.
Couldn't a machine shop build up those mains and rebore them to proper size or at least sleeve them? Just curious. Great video, cheers :)
I think the cylinders could be sleeved, and the crankshaft mains could be welded.
Is boring the case for oversized main bearings common practice?
I offer my deepest apologies
I did not mean to be late for class
Is there a hp rating for that starter engine ?
So are the crank thrust bearings available in an oversize od and an undersize id.. that bearing bore might be sleeved and the sleeve held in place with tapered thread crack repair pins before rebooting to centerline and size..a boring bar could easily be created to fixture in the removable cover to bore that back to proper size. And do the sleeve bore cut also.
@@squatch253 www.enginebuildermag.com/2000/09/heavy-duty-details-damaged-main-and-cam-bearing-saddles-can-be-successfully-repaired-by-sleeving/
in case you missed the article in that obscure magazine..
A number of parts in this pony engine would have been standard and used across other applications, electric generator, water pump engines, snow machines etc. And these would've been manufactured widely from the US to Canada. Cross referencing will pinpoint the right part, although I am sure you have already done so. But look in Canada as well for like those over size pistons.
Squatch253 Does Ziegler cat have much for parts for this old stuff ?
Very interesting video,got a question the only starting engine I've ever saw was on a D8 back in 1971 how long did Cat use the starting engine?
I have a silly question, but it's been burning in my brain.... hypothetically speaking could the starting motor pull the whole tractor if needed? For example if for some reason you were out of diesel or catastrophic damage happened to the diesel engine. My guess is no, but I had to ask.
Well, I can see a rebuildable engine there, but with all the other starting engines that you have, and engine blocks, I'm just wondering if you'll waist time on this block. Great video, thanks for sharing....
Waste 🤦♂️
"we are cutting right to the chase today, no intro..." **Proceeds with a full intro, complete with a title card**
Not his regular intro
Still an intro
I had a bad situation like that on my John Deere A. Hey - maybe a video idea!
I still think you should use 2115's starting engine block. It just seems right to let that engine live again.
Great video!!!
Thank you Toby! I don't want to be alarmist, and I know you'll check anyway, but was the con-rod on the second piston you took out straight? It may have been a trick of the camera, or my slightly waffy eyesight, but it looked a little curved to me!
Anyway, excellent video! :-)
awesome video Squatch...... quick question: what camera are you using and what video editing program? your videos are turning out excellent, good work.
Why do the pistons have 2 sets of oil control rings?
@@squatch253 I didn't notice the second set when I saw you building the shortblock. And yeah, the oils back then were barely more than cleaned up crude, so I understand that. How much do modern oils extend the life of these little pony engines? You mentioned a 200 hour life, but I'm sure that was when they used the oil almost a hundred years ago.
@@octane613 He mentioned an approx. 250hr life expectancy. I wrote out a comment (in that video) saying that I figure that the old oil against modern oil wouldn`t have much difference to offer, as much as the difference that is made by draining whatever oil out and replacing it with fresh stuff at or before reaching the interval. The oil`s job is to suspend contaminants. Contaminants can include metal shavings, bearing wear, foreign liquids including antifreeze, fuel(s), moisture from a number of sources. What matters more to you? Having a more modern oil in your engine, or changing out whatever is in there to ensure that fresh clean oil is lubricating things ? The more modern oils can withstand more heat, more contaminants (to a certain degree, of course) than the older stuff of 70+ years ago before it begins to break down. The trouble is, do you want to wait until your modern motor oil begins breaking down before you change it, or just go ahead and get it out of there, and replace it with fresh stuff... cost be damned. The oil is cheap; the labor and parts to rebuild are significantly more. So, back to your question of how much do modern oils extend the life of one of these pony engines. I`d be inclined to believe not a whole lot, but I`d still be changing the oil fairly regularly, if for no other reason than peace of mind, to know that I have clean stuff in there. It`s not so much about how long the oil itself can last, as it is about getting the contaminants the hell out of the engine. Just my two cents.
Those oil control rings are just a single piece of iron with grooved cut in it. Modern American and Japanese gasoline engines usually have a 3 piece ring, and European gasoline and most diesels have a 2 piece ring. Those performed better, that is why so many engines went with one oil control ring.
In this video, a Plymouth flathead was originally equipped with two single piece oil rings, but EGGE decided to make all their pistons with one three piece oil ring:
th-cam.com/video/uQaBYDnjgxs/w-d-xo.html
I think the logic is that if nobody makes any new single piece oil rings, why build pistons designed for single piece oil rings? People would have to locate NOS ring packs if they really wanted to copy OEM.
A great video 👌🏻
@ Squatch253 Would you be interested in a Caterpillar TWENTY TWO?
Anyone know the starting engine displacement?
Squatch slow down buddy life is short 😂
I was guessing you wouldn't just drop on one of those ready to go engines.
The most calming and rewarding videos on the internet.
hey a you tuber called salvage workshop is having a problem with his pony motor mag has broken gear, bent mag arm shaft from probly lose crankshaft , there you go wheel n deal ,i like watch n yr show
D 6 9u used the same starting angine
Good Video
Interesting, thanks
You're just winging it aren't you?.........Just kidding-Hell you're knowledgeable.
Do people also call them pony motors?
I learned alot, thanks
Owwwww it's like a chunky 2CV engine
Some times i wonder why they didnt use tapered roller bearings on the mains in them type pony engines like Wisconsin vf4 and even the two cylinder Wisconsin engines had any we just called them wisconsin baler engines after all that is a splash type oiling system
Did you see my last commits on the Dew! Ha Ha
Did you know john deer used the same down draft carburetor on pony engines on there diesel poppen johns
Jpaydirt is looking for a blade for a early d4.