HOW STRONG is PET Bottle Filament?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- I recently got some samples of 3D printing filament made from old PET bottles. Before I decide whether to build my own machine, I wanted to take a look at the material itself, how it prints and how strong it is! Let's find out more!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:39 Pul-Trusion
03:45 Print Test
05:39 Why is PET filament not popular?
06:57 Strength Test
09:05 Summary & Conclusion - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Recycling PET bottles to 3D printing filament! Gimmick or innovation?
I wonder how hard it would be to blend HDPE bottles with PLA filament to make a blend. I guess we'd need an injection-moulding-type screw?
@CNC Kitchen , open "Brother" chanel
He make it too
"do you think i should invest into building my own recycling system?" Yes. Yes, absolutely! Looking at my stash of PET bottles i should really bring back to the supermarket more often, i would LOVE to have some kind of excuse to actually not need to do that anymore.
"yes, i know, quite a huge pile of bottles, but i'm still collecting for a full spool of PET filament"
The amount of em' I generate make me feel obligated to make the machine.
Würde mich sehr interessieren zu sehen wie das geht und welche Schwierigkeiten dabei vielleicht entstehen könnten.
Yes, you should build or buy one of the filament extrusion machines - would be cool to see your methodical and scientific approach to testing!
he has one, he probably doesnt want to take the time to grind a whole bunch of bottles up
@@theflyingnon8546 its 25ct for a bottle in germany
This system is called PetPull in the original. For some reason, the author does not talk about this in the video.
@@KartoshkaAndMelassa th-cam.com/video/pAvHN3IAaSE/w-d-xo.html
@@theflyingnon8546 th-cam.com/video/pAvHN3IAaSE/w-d-xo.html
The print temperature needs to be increased. Then we can increase the printing speed. I usually use 280+ degrees. Blowing should be turned on closer to the maximum. Then there will be no crystallization. There will be better corners and overhangs. I have been printing with PET bottles for 3 years. Started out for fun but found it to be one of the best filaments to print.
а нагреаательный блок стандартный или биметаллический или титановый ?
@@kvoistinov Тефлоновый быстро деградирует, за несколько килограмм пластика. Лучше титан или биметалл.
How do you combine the filament for larger rolls?
Вулкан лучше или нет? На V6 зажимает частенько, быстрее 40 не получается печатать
я слышал бутылочный пластик воду набирает и сушить надо чтоб не пенился, удивлен что он так хорошо печатает
I live in Brazil, and I can easily say it's an amazing idea. Here, a kg of PETG filament costs around 24 euros, but minimum wage here is around 180 euros. On the other hand, you can get a KG of PET bottles in any recycling center here for around 50 cents (euro).
So it's easy to see how it might be very worthy here, even considering the time it would take to clean and feed the "pultruder".
I might give it a try sometime, the results you got were pretty great, and clearly more than enough to do some decorative parts!
penso o mesmo, você sabe de alguém que construiu a máquina do jrt3d? se você fizer algo fala aí
You can buy pet bottles at a recycling centre? I mean it make sense it's just that if you tried it where I live they would think you escaped the insane asylum.
@@volundrfrey896 Sadly the case in a lot of countries. They have more security at my local recycling centre than they do on military bases.
I guess they don't want people to interfere with the government paying for the waste to be shipped off to China to be dumped in the sea.
@@volundrfrey896 Yes, never tried myself, but the recycling potential its amazing!
@@finndemoncat9379
@Corn Pop Where I live the charge back for recycling a 2 litre bottle is $0.2. So that's what a bottle is "worth" in other words, it's cheaper just to buy plastic. I guess it's both good and bad, the good thing is that nearly all bottles get recycled, the bad is that no one bothers finding better ways to recycle.
1. Wow, $.25 deposit for plastic bottles, that's amazing. (Impressed American)
2. I just LOVE the idea of taking trash and making it useful again. All feasibility aside, I think half the reasoning is just the joy of knowing you've made something out of what others throw away (or recycle)
In Michigan it's been $0.10 for many years. If it would have kept pace with inflation, it would also be $0.25 a bottle today.
I'm in Washington and we don't have any deposit here. Every can and bottle we buy though in the stores has all of the refunds listed on it for the different states. You could literally walk down the street and pick up printing material. As well as casting material in the form of aluminum cans. Don't get the wrong idea, our streets aren't just littered with garbage. I live in kind of a rural area, so walking down the side roads, you find where people have thrown their cans and bottles out their car windows as they drive.
In Sweden there is a 0.2ish $ deposit, many homeless people are recycling to gain some income. There are also donation options on the recycling machine so you can donate the deposit directly.
In America, it costs more to make a bottle out of recycled material than it does to make from new stock. More than 80% of the bottles sent in for recycling are rejected and sent to the landfill.
@@jameslmorehead That is very strange.
PET plastic consists of only carbon and hidrogen atoms (unlike PVC or ABS), thus it can be combusted without making any poisonous gases, just like burning wood, emitting only CO2 and H2O.
Why would they bury the fuel=money into landfill?
I have a friend here in Brasil that is working in a crazy machine to cut the PET bottles in little pieces that can be melted in new filament. His method makes easy to use including the bottom and the mouth of all the bottles.
And when you want to come to Rio, I’ll be waiting you!
Instead of splicing the filament, you should splice the strips of the bottles before they are pull-struded. I think you could cut the ends of two strips at a diagonal and weld them together with a soldering iron or something else.
Good idea!
welding tape is more difficult than a bar. The tape deforms under heating, becomes brittle due to crystallization. And the rod is welded quite simply. Machines for this have already been developed, including semi-automatic ones, as in "mosaic"
@@CNCKitchen Or maybe using a simple Clothes Iron and maybe some Wax Paper? Lay the two strips and iron them together momentarily.
Which if that works, then a person can probably make a simple and quick process to integrate right into the Puller, which has maybe two TECs strapped to two heatsinks mounted to a simple door hinge (a lever-arm attached to the upper heatsink as well). When your one bottom has run out, quickly add the next one, get the initial cut, place it between the TECs and press down to "iron" the two bottle ends.
Admittedly, that seamless process probably wouldn't work out well (as in, take too long). However, the TEC "iron" might still be enough, and you'd only need to pre-cut bottles and fuse the ends together. Then let all the fused together bottle segments run through, for a very long filament.
Possible Problem: The pre-cut bottles would likely end up getting snagged on each other and result in a jammed system, so that in turn may require pre-spooling the sliced bottles onto a spindle :\
===
TEC - Thermal Electric Cooler, aka Peltier.
it wont work. Pet strip warps under heat as soon you touch it with soldering iron
@@baddoer packing strips already figured this out, but I'm sure 1,000+ people have already figured out a solution.
Brothers video on printing directly with audio tape and ending up with magnetic prints was pretty cool. It's available already spooled on reels.
That's actually super cool. I was expecting printing would be a lot more difficult, but that doesn't look too bad honestly. Also extruding straight into the printer looks hilariously cool. I'm all for if you decide to make one of these yourself, but yeah, that really depends on whether you think it's a worthwhile investment.
ok but hear me out... what about extruding 3mm instead of 1.75 and then using that to extrude 1.75? yeah you spend much more energy, but it should result in much better consistency on final filament and if you roughly weld 3mm material, reextrusion to 1.75 should smooth those spots, resulting in consistent results
anyone with time to try this theory?
i don't have one, but i feel it might be slightly more consistent, but will still have that hole thing bc of laminar flow with nozzles. You could probably utilize this to make "coextrusion" possible, to have different cores, by layering the ribbons with different colors or materials.
well heating and cooling plastics is not always good depending on temperature, but still a neat idea !
Any time You remelt plastic it degrade in quality
Yes I been made the business. Blacksmith Renewables llc. I’m working it…I have connected businesses to compliment it.
Worth testing
I would love to see you build your own version and do further testing!
I've seen these but never got around to looking at how it worked. Awesome to see an explainer. Also, that was probably one of the best sponsor/ad integrations I've seen in a long time.
I was waiting for this! Thank you so much for covering this!
This is the PetPull!!!
Brilliant job Stefan, turning a plastic waste into useful products might give a whole new perspective for people and businesses in developing nations. Hope to see more about this from you soon.
First saw this in a mr3dp video a few months ago, and it fascinated me!
These prints performed much better mechanically than I expected. I’d love to see more testing on this. 🙂
It's really nice to see that you can re-use items that are everywhere. Your video is awesome, in that you explore with such detail that is very specific and you explain it so well! Thanks for the video and I'd really like to see you look at making your own extrusion machine. I think it will give many the confidence to recycle (me included).
"White?!?" LOL!! Great content as always, would be interested in seeing you dive deeper into this. Recycling is actually a real issue in parts of the USA where many people simply just throw these bottles out with the waste trash even in areas where deposits are paid you only get a fraction of the deposit back when you turn them in most of the time.
Love to see you build this and give a detailed assessment of the technology
Perfect timing, I literally just finished designing and building my own
Those flat printed tensile test samples are the most transparent 3D prints I've ever seen! I'd love to see how clear it would be if it got polished/sanded smooth.
This is Petpull!
Он
I watched Nero 3Ds interview “Pellets ti Filament” video about how a manufacturer makes filament and got a whole new level of appreciation for how much work goes into making consistent quality products. It’s way more than just extruding molten pellets.
That being said, this was a great video and excellent work, thanks!
When you look into it more I suggest you find out what manufacturers are doing that you might need to include in your assessment.
I think this is incredibly interesting for Mass recycling setup as long as you can find a way to auto feed the bottles in, plus the green color looks so good
This is PetPull!
Точно. Он.
I'm curious on how well the same bottles would do chopped up and extruded like pellets. Might be a decent way around the 20g/bottle you get if you can throw in multiple bottles
Not worth it in Germany at least. A bottle empty is worth 25cents..
Agreed and for things like 2L bottles in the US, it's trivial to get perfect sheets of plastic that would easily shred in a crosscut paper shredder for small and evenly sized particles.
I think the problem with pellet extrusion is that PET will crystalize at high temps. Once crystalized it's harder to melt and becomes much more brittle. Of course, I could be wrong, so I'd love to see it tested. It would be nice if I could just ask some hipsters for their polar seltzer bottles and turn that into filament, but I don't want to have to splice hundreds of 20g segments by hand...
Turning a bottle into pellets also makes the thicker threaded part usefull (if you can shred it), so you'd squezze even more grams of PET out of each bottle.
@@1987jaffa I'm sure even the caps could be used to some degree.
Yes! Definitely. Looking forward for that!
Build one please! Glad to hear you found Brother's channel (most of his videos do have subtlites in English), he prints with different plastics he finds discarded, from vinyl records to car brake light plastic, or random Soviet left overs... Looks like a harse place to live, but the level of ingenuity is excellent!
I couldn't help but notice at 6:26 the uneven heat distribution in the coupons. I would believe the middle ones staying warmer longer could lead to different annealing properties in their strength tests. I wonder if you'd get more consistent results if they were printed standing further apart from each other. Or if you could test if this has any measurable effect on the strength of the samples.
Good observation. The inner ones are more isolated and hence stay longer warm. There is a crystallization limit, that the parts reach pretty quickly so my guess is that there shouldn't be a huge difference. Still a good point to consider in the future.
It would be really interesting if you built one of those extruders. I'd imagine there's a lot to learn! I didn't even know the recycled filament wasn't a perfect circle.
I love all your videos about making your own filament, so please investigate this further!
I loved your methodical and scientific examination!
I definitely want to try this at some point in the near future. I am curious to try pulling multiple stripes using multiple bottles and trying to combine them into one filament to extend the useful length of material.
My main hesitation holding me back still is my lack of knowledge on polymer chemistry. Heck, I've even been watching some opencourseware classes from MIT to (re)build my solid state chemistry understanding, and looking for content about the polymerization process in practice.
I think the main question I want to know is what polymer properties can only be set when combining monomers in fluid/gaseous form versus what can be mixed and tuned through extrusion mixing techniques after the polymer has been pelletized?
I spent awhile painting cars, working with composites, and working for an asphalt company for awhile. In my empirical experience, the key to most plastics I have worked with and asphalt recycling/production is the solvent that is most effective for the respective material. For instance, mixing diesel fuel with the black tar in asphalt grindings makes the stuff pliable and recyclable. It's also the only solvent capable of cleaning off the fresh tar if it gets spilled. There are also lots of tricks with automotive paints and composites when the right solvent is used. There are an enormous range of solvent "temperatures" and additives sold to control things like paint flash times and orange peel textures of clear coat finishes. For instance, it is possible to repair only part of a panel on a car, and under the right circumstances, only clear coat part of the panel where the repair was made. The clear coat would normally look like crap if it were left like this, but if the right solvent is used in a spray gun with the right settings, it is possible to spray the solvent over the transition between the new and old clear coat and it will cause the two layers to bond chemically "burning in" the transition and making it invisible. So what solvents can modify recycled PET during processes accessible to the average person?
Thanks for the upload.
-Jake
This is great to see a recycling process that actually works at a small scale and produces a product that isn't just acceptable but actually has good properties. Here in Canada it definitely makes more sense to return the bottles and use the deposit money to buy filament, as you mentioned, but I would love to see you investigate this further as well. Personally I won't be building one since I only drink water, coffee and beer, none of which come in PET bottles!
At best market rates, 10g of PET filament is 35¢, and you can get a lot more than 10g from most bottles. Some bottled goods are so cheap that, once you figure in value of filament, you're getting the goods contained within for free or even less.
Icelander here, gotta clear up something about bottle deposits: My cousins in Scandinavia have a vastly decentralised bottle collection system, where grocery stores will have their own automated collection machines that will give store credit. It's effectively a closed loop, if you're shopping local. Iceland meanwhile has a much more centralised system where there's very few, dedicated collection centers that will do direct transfers to your credit card or bank account. Last I checked Reykjavík, a city of 250k people has just one deposit center. That said there are also more localised dumping tank clusters, where beside a metal recycling tank there's a bottle donation tank to the child scout troops, who then use the deposit to pay for their operations and support the search and rescue people. I've lived both in Iceland and Sweden and I'm much more fond of their system, especially when stuff like Scouts and S&R would function a lot more efficiently if they could run on 100% government subsidies instead of wasting time sorting through bottles.
I would love to see more of your scientific approach to testing the feasibility and practicality of printing using old PET bottles. So yes, please build a machine and do some more testing!
Seeing the way the filament gets folded around the middle gave me an interesting idea. It shouldn't be too hard to modify the pull-truder and add a conductive wire at the midle of the strip so the plastic is folded around it. Might be a good way to get printable circuits.
But other than that I think the better filament-makers are the ones using plastic granules. Because if the intent is recycling plastic bottles you'll have a lot of them crushed flat, you'll have to peel off the labels and clean any residue on them. And you'll also have uneven thickness on many bottles. I think the most sensible approach is to have something that extrudes from small plastic scraps so you can shred the bottles and run them through an automatic cleaning process.
Great idea if you'd like to make your own wires.
But the printable circuits part isn't that easy, since you would need to slice the wire at the hotend everytime.
The idea looks very similar to PETPull. Thanks for attempt to testing recycled PET properties.
I wasn't aware of PETPull. Also a very nice machine.
@@CNCKitchen How much material is needed to perform correct tests of PET (exclude crystallization, for example)? At this time I have ~100 meters or 290 grams if PET filament produced from the same type of bottles. I will be glad to provide it for you for tests. If more material need I need some time to find the same bottles and produce filament from it.
petpull is a original this pullstruder guy just steal a idea
Thank you. I'm very new to the idea of 3D printing and found this really helpful. Cheers.
A device to fuse two or more small filament rolls into a big one would be a game changing and gravitate people more than anything else since we'll be able to print big parts.
PET is amazing to recycle. Really worth it but I don't with the deposit on PET bottles in Germany that it would be worth it
When you live close to the boreder (Danmark, poland, Czech) you could got it there.
There are still PET bottles in Germany without deposit.
@@jayphone1 there is a good reason why they don't have deposit. The acidic drinks change the chemical nature of the pet.
@@ArneSchwarck Thanks. I didn't know this. I thought there is nothing more acidic to drink than Coca-Cola. I have seen a PET milk drink bottle today without deposit.
@@jayphone1 I regularly use my deposit bottles to fetch milk from the milk station and after that it is clearly chemically bonded to the pet. Can't get out transparent again with standard detergents
This is PetPull!!!!
Your videos are always outstanding! I think you touched on many positives with this idea. The only trick left is to make the machine that joins the tapes together, giving you a spool of tape.
Printing directly with PET strips is actually a great idea!
It deserves further exploration by more makers.
this is one thing im passionate about and would love to used my own recycled materials, I already try and buy recycled materials, but you do seem to pay a premium for it. producing my own would be great. please look into this further. great work
25 €-Cents/20g --> 12.50 € /kg Filament in Germany. : )
Edit: Ahaha, okay, haven't been watching to the point, where Stefan mentioned it in the video, when I wrote it. : )
Current price for Sunlu PETG in Germany: 16.65€/kg, price for the cheapest white label PETG that is claimed to be made by Sunlu: 12.02€/kg
This is what I've been thinking about ever since I learned about 3d printers, I'm glad it's finally taking on
Yes - Yes - Yes! Please build one. Great video and I have a lot of interest. Thanks for the video. 👍
The practicality of it would depend on a reliable way of splicing these together id say. I wonder if spot-welding two strips together and ramming them through the pulltruder would 'just work'. If the pulling is powerful enough... I think so? though youd probably get a temporary overextrusion... hmmm... combined with the effective material cost, I guess lacking in practicality. But yeah it comes out surprisingly well.
I was thinking of maybe cutting the ends of the strips thinner, and maybe twisting them together somehow before you shove them through the pulltruder so they would get sort of melted and twisted together. In my mind that seems like it would make a fairly strong connection point if it goes through the pulltruder ok.
Great video! Make the recycle machine and print bottles, we'd love to see it.
Great video and topic. Best every Sponsor part, had to watch it completely 👌
Really really well made and balanced video!
Cheers mate!
this is pretty impressive 👏😎
I'll hook you up with some materials if I ever build a machine.
@@CNCKitchen sounds great! 😎
Так это же PETPull. И мне кажется, что он был создан раньше чем PETBOT, который вы показали в видео.
Hi stephan, tks for all ur contents. U are a MASTER and I would love to see you build your own version and do further testing! Great job as allways!!
Awesome, awesome test! Agree with your conclusions. Some really cool prints.
Это PetPull.😉
I would like to see a similar test using HDPE/LDPE recycled milk jugs.
Yes, but that stuff seems to be a huge pain to print!
Thanks for placing your sponsor on the end of the video so we dont need to skip it !
Great! Show us more of this topic! Thanks und schönen Tag!
Пришёл с канала Brother. Передаю привет тем, кто собирается улучшить мир)
Would love to see an investigation of similarly readily available "trash" plastics like HDPE and LDPE.
Large shrinkage factor. Like polypropylene. You will need an active thermal camera.
Yes, is love it too see your version of a recycling pet machine.
I really be interested to seeing more of it, and exploration of use cases!!!
PETPull однако.:))
I’m trying to understand. You said PET crystallizes when it’s too hot for too long but you want to try with higher temperature and less cooling to see if it improves. I think you’ve covered the topic well enough, so don’t build the machine unless that’s what your heart wants. 😉
I think in some applications crystallization is a desired effect.
Higher temperature is mentioned in context of improving layer adhesion. Also crystallization is actually good for the strength, rigidity and high temperature performance. Clogs in hotend as far as I understand occur because "crystallized" polymer needs higher temperature for melting - so higher nozzle temperature (at least when starting from cold) can also help.
Higher temperatures and less cooling might be an option for better layer adhesion but might cause even MORE crystallization because the material stays hot longer. For less crystallization I'd need lower temps and more cooling.
@@CNCKitchen I tried to say, that you need higher temperatures to melt polymer that could be crystallized in hotend between prints. As for staying hot longer during print - time spent in hotend is more or less function of printing speed (and usually you can print a bit faster at a bit higher temps). Of course it will stay hot longer after it came out of nozzle - but at this point, i think, crystallization may even be desirable, giving more strength to the printed part (I think you heard about post-print annealing of printed PEEK parts during which polymer crystallizes to a some degree, turns opaque and becomes much stronger)
Yes!!
You should definitely make both of this machines. I'd like to see how you make the pulltrusion filament maker, and the direct extrusion printer.
Yesss, I'd love to see more of this!
PetPull
Gr8 video, been waiting months, for you to make this video. Cheers
As usual, great video. I think this could be worth exploring a bit further. Thank you!
Awesome video (as usual). Actually, transforming empty beverage bottles directly into stuff I can use in my workshop right away (wall plugs, washers, spacers, wedges, hinges etc.) makes way more sense to me than slapping a recycling tax on one-time-use containers. Thank god, I live right at the border (of Germany) so I can source my beverages from our smarter Neighbors and don't have to waste money on the ridiculous "Trittin Tax" ;-)
Yes, please. Would love to see a build and test of one of these machines.
Yes, more on this would great!
PETPull 0$!!!
Не твоя идея это PetPull !
This really cool, I might do this over the summer
wow, I am building one of these machine myself and after watching this video I am even more motivated!! Thank you I was really curious to see the propreties of pet filament (and they are great). You should definetely buy or maybe even make one.
For a better joining metod I had an idea: you could join the pet strip before you let it go through the extruder so it is much easyer. ( I didn't know if it would work)
I'd love to see you make the machine and further test the material. I'd also be interested in seeing the refinements you come up with while building it.
You should absolutely build one. Love this video
I'd love to see you give this a try! I have an old CR-10 that I haven't used in a long time but if i could make this work, it looks like the perfect repurposing for it
Yes ! It will be very interesting to see you make this project due to your skills in engineering AND teaching .
I beg you !
yes you should definately look into testing one of those further! good video!
Very informative, thank you CNC Kitchen!!
You should definitely build one and do more testing. I worked with refugees at a makerspace in Greece, and this is exactly the kind of thing they would find very useful.
Absolutely build one. I've not seen any videos past the quick setup ones, would be great to see a more technical deep dive into the process. I'm planning to make one of these this summer.
Please build one ! It look fantastic!
I would love one of these machines. I'm in the states and use to live in NY. In NY there is a $.05 deposit on soda and water bottles. I now live in Texas and they don't do any deposits or any big recycling here. Most people just put the bottles in the trash. It would be awesome to collect from my family and in-laws to make filament! I definitely will be doing more research to make one!
Thank you for putting the advertisement at the end rather than annoyingly at the any other part of the video! Also, you released this basically just in time to answer my friend's question about recycling bottles in to filaments so I didn't have to lol
great stuff! I'd love to see more on this topic
That was fascinating. Yes, do get one! Have to find a way of making longer filaments - big melting hopper to do 50 bottles at once and pull out of the bottom?
Recycling failed prints is something I'd really like to be able to do - I keep them in separate bins for the day I'll be able to reuse them, instead of throwing away.
would absolutely love to see a video on material recycling!
Very interesting indeed. The two challenges are splicing them together so you can get more than 20G at a time, and the time involved in cleaning the bottles before use.
I would love to see you explore this.
Definitely need more looking into!!
Greetings from Brazil for choosing our country's VPN at the end of the video.
you should absolutely do follow-up experiments. I'd love to see their properties. considering I won't have a lot of money for filaments for a while. and also my grandmother almost exclusively drinks Mountain Dew. it would be a really good way to reuse her bottles rather than just throwing them away.
This is pretty cool. Need to get a setup like this
Definitely make one! This is genius!
yes please, we need to see your machine and do more testing and improving about this method
Yes you should create one of those, bottles to filaments machine and show us testings every time you do.