The bass player Mike Rutherford, is in my view an absolute giant when it comes to playing the bass lines as the architecture of the songs and sacrifizing at times his image of bass virtuoso. He is also a very talented and sensitive songwriter and the leader of the band Mike And The Mechanics.
All four instrumentalists :- Banks, Collins, Hackett, Rutherford are fantastically talented at what they do. All the way through Genesis' history, Mike Rutherford's bass lines are just incredible.
Mike & The Mechanics were sappy-really only thinking of their hit singles heard on the radio-The Living Yrs. & All I Need Is A Miracle. It was good enough mind you, but didn't push my buttons too much. Middle of the road chick fare imo. lol
Dance on a volcano is the first track on the first album without Peter. It came out in early 1976. Phil was convinced to take the lead by circumstances, all the singers who went to the audition weren't able to fit in Peter's shoes. Phil who has learned them the songs was told by his wife "why don't you do it?". So he came the next day and to the surprise of the three others, said "Let me have a go!?". So he did Squonk (the most difficult one) then one song after one song, without facing it, he had done the whole album. And brillantly. Steve, Mike and Tony were astonished who good he sounded, close to Peter's voice as they thought that his voice wasn't strong enough to carry strong material from Peter's era. So they mixed the album and A trick of the tail came out and was a huge success. The problem next to this was: Who will sing on tour? Phil didn't want to leave his sacred drum stool. One day Phil met Bill Bruford (Yes-King Crimson) during a party or concert, and Phil told him the story and the problem they were dealing with. And Bill said to Phil " I'll play drums and you'll sing" the rest is history. And no, Peter wasn't the leader from Genesis neither was Phil. The two members that you still don't know well are without doubt the two hidden leaders of Genesis. Tony Banks for the musical side, Mike Rutherford for the managing and political side. Steve Hackett has always been a soloist on Genesis and gaining trust in his skills got more and more frustrated that his material he proposed wasn't more chosen, as Tony's stuff was proeminent. That's why Steve left, and why the album "...and then there were three" was called like this. Phil wasn't the leader at all, he was the drummer first when Peter was there, then he did backing vocals and sung on two songs before taking the lead singing. He was the arranger of the music but didn't write really anything till Duke, when he brought Misunderstanding and Please don't ask, which were songs he had written in 1979, during his personnal divorce issues, that will become Face value and so on... Phil, even during the 80 wasn't the leader, it's a misconception from the audiences who discovered him as a solo artist before knowing about his Genesis past.
Musically and style wise Tony was always the lead and Peter sided with him. Once Peter left there is no denying that Phil took the spotlight live. I am a huge fan of all of them and they represent a huge chunk of the music of my life. It is regretful that they couldn't keep Steve happy. After reading his book you understand that he was socially awkward and wasn't very comfortable live. He's come a long way now and Hackett is a must see.
Do not forget Anthony Phillips, he was only member until Trespass but influenced the Genesis sound a lot. He did really a very Nice solo effort with a lot of fantastic works!
Some quick points from a long time fan... Genesis was a collective... Phil was not the band leader, if any thing Tony was the main driving force in the Genesis sound, but certain songs would be written by Mike, Steve, or Tony (or Peter when he was in the band). Phil didn't really start writing songs on his own until Duke (1980) but he was an arranger and would help arrange songs in the writing process. Genesis were always about the song, not showing off (although they could out play any of their peers).... and lastly Phil is as good a drummer as you'll find anywhere... for more evidence check out his work in Brand X his fusion band that started in tandem with Genesis from 76 to 80... I think you'll be impressed. Lastly the comparisons to Rush... Rush were huge Genesis and Yes fans... Peart talks about the influence of Phil in interviews. Lastly Prog Archives are not "professional" reviewers btw, its just fans ratings.
Wind and Wuthering is by far my favorite non-Gabriel album. This track from it is great but I've always loved "Blood on the Rooftops" the most. Maybe someone will request that one soon. Thanks for this reaction and the requester picking these tracks. Love these marathons as they really are a great idea (and, as far as I know, no other reactors do this format). 👍
Peter and Tony were the principal architects of early Genesis but after Peter left Phil's influence and especially with Hackett on lead changed the sound quite a bit. Both iconic and amazing but certainly different. Eleventh Earl Of Mar (In Castilian : Eleventh Earl of Mar) is the opening song of the album Wind & Wuthering of Genesis in 1976 . The song is about the Jacobite rebellion of 1715 . The Earl of Mar, John Erskine , led the rebel forces (with the title of "The Great Pretender"), but in reality he was an incompetent general, who wasted all strategic advantages by camping near the city of Perth for a week, giving the Royal forces of the opposition time to organize. This John Erskine is the 6th Earl of Mar de jure , the 22nd according to the old enumeration and the Eleventh according to the Scottish enumeration which is the one used in the title of the song. The song is very precise and sarcastic about the Count.
The two guys you can't think of are the two main songwriters, Mike Rutherford on bass and rhythm guitars and Tony Banks, the classiest prog keyboardist out there. When in the studio, Phil records his drums abd vocals separately and they hired a drummer for touring so Phil spends most of the show out front as lead singer, but would hop on drums here and there and have a drum battle with Chester Thompson (Bill Bruford on the first post Peter tour in 1976).
I think it's fair to say that the dominant member of Genesis was always Tony Banks. He poured so much into the band that his solo work was a bit "thin".
@@akio2730 You read my intention wrongly. Tony dominated and butted heads about musical decisions. This kind of internal strife makes better music, but leads to members leaving when they've had enough.
Gentlemen. We are talking Genesis. Michael Rutherford included! Who?!? Listen, enjoy!!! Oh, by the way 'The Eleventh Earl of Mar' is sick beyond bickering.
First of all, Phil Collins is a beast on the drums. As a drummer myself, I feel he is very underrated. As far as singing and drumming at the same time, it is extremely difficult. The sound of the drums projects outward from the drums, so it’s generally not a problem for a vocal mic. For the most part however, Phil would not play and sing at the same time. Chester Thompson would be playing drums while Phil would sing and then, Phil would jump in on his kit during the instrumental parts of the song and they would play together. Also extremely difficult.
I don't think Phil's drumming in the right circles is underrated. He is exceptional. Now Jethro's Barriemore Barlow is an underrated drummer. As Zep's Bonzo said - the best he has heard.
The news of Peter's departure did concern me at first but as soon as I heard Dance on a Volcano I knew there was no problem. Next in was Entangled, what an amazing track, the Hackett 12 string, Phil's harmonies and Tony's mellotron. Phil took Genesis into a new stage of vocalisation much the same as Steve Hogarth did with Marillion. I agree with B Mac that they lost much more when Steve left the band.
@@lansorbet5882 Yes, I've heard Tony was a borderline control freak... and was at least part of the reason both Peter and Steve ultimately left (though definitely not the only one).
At least he dominated the sound. For me since Genesis started, beside Pete, Phil, Mike and Steve, it was always the keyboards, thinking on Genesis, and it was Tony Banks.
"Eleventh..." is surely among the top five songs in the entire Genesis catalogue. Perhaps the most epic. And W&W has the best cover art in all of music history.
To repeat the wise words of Frank van Will, from the comments below: "Dance on a Volcano - Los Endos from Seconds Out is for me the definitive version. Phil is amazing on that one." They were my thoughts almost exactly. I first heard the outstanding live "Seconds Out" album, and saw that tour, with the powerhouse Chester Thompson also on drums, performing at a more rapid clip. When I heard the studio version it sounded wooden and a tad too careful by comparison. Had I a marathon request in the queue, I would say to take your time, lest it become more a labor than a love.
Born and raised on Genesis - from my older brothers. I'm happy to see younger people getting into this music. It is hands-down some of the BEST music out there - and much is largely unknown to many.
Thanks Nick, Alexia and Michael for a great Genesis marathon. It's always great to hear Genesis, and it always stimulates discussion! There's lots of info below for you to absorb guys, but in my humble opinion - There was never a leader in Genesis. individual members would bring pieces into the studio for the rest to listen to, and often they would be incorporated with others, and the writers of those would collaborate; an example being 'Eleventh Earl Of Mar' which is credited to Banks/Rutherford/Hackett. No Collins there Nick, Phil didn't start contributing fully until 'Duke'. In fact after 'Duke' was released there was a disagreement between Phil and Tony/Mike who both asked why 'In The Air Tonight' hadn't been submitted to the band for the 'Duke' sessions. Phil said that he had submitted it, but Tony and Mike said 'No way. We would have gone with that song'! There's no doubt that Tony was a strong personality, but he, Mike and Peter were the core in the early days. Don't forget, Phil and Steve only joined prior to 'Nursery Chryme' and they had to assert themselves. Some comments on these three albums :- 'A Trick Of The Tail' - my reaction when I heard it Nick was one of relief! Thank heavens it's good was my initial reaction, and I soon grew to love it. Lots of great songs with 'Entangled' a personal favourite. 'Wind and Wuthering' - I have to disagree with you here Nick. I think it's far away from the 80's music, still pretty proggy, and when I listen to 'Blood On The Rooftops' I still feel sad. Steve left after this album because he felt his material was being overlooked, and this was his song and the standout track on the album. Check out his version on TH-cam with his Genesis Revisited band plus orchestra. It is stunning! 'And Then There Were Three' - This was the first Genesis album where I felt underwhelmed. I certainly think Steve was missed. The guitar sounds heavier Nick, because Mike (and he would agree) was never the player Steve was. He didn't have his subtlety and technique. Some of the songs were quite 'average' in comparison with what went before, and it had the mediocre 'Follow You, Follow Me', a Top 20 single that was the shape of things to come. I have never liked that song. As you know, I am a huge Genesis fan, I have all their albums, and first saw them in 1972 on the 'Foxtrot' tour, and I love the fact that their career provides so many opportunities for discussion and debate. We must have more from these three albums before we move on. Thanks again.
You’ve entered into what I like to call the ‘David Hentschel’ phase of their career. He was the producer on all three of these albums. He was also the one who created the amazing synthesizer orchestration for the intro to Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend” (I think you’ve done that one already - if not, definitely do it!). “Eleventh Earl of Mar” was the very first Genesis song I ever heard. A late night DJ on a Detroit based FM station played it and I was immediately intrigued. I kinda feel sorry for you, Nick. Your first impression of them was way late into their career during a time when they were actively chasing commercial success. This period was a long way from where they started and they had really lost what they originally intended to do musically, IMHO. As to the title ‘And Then There Were Three…’. That was a direct reference to the fact that Steve Hackett had just left the band. I saw them live on the tour for this album. Regrettably it’s the only time I ever witnessed them play live. It was an unforgettable experience though… For live performances, they recruited Chester Thompson to play drums and Daryl Stuermer to take the place of Hackett. Phil never did any more than sing backup during the Gabriel phase of the band. When he took over vocals, he knew that a lead singer needed to be out front, hence the hiring of Chester. There’s only a handful of drummers who can effectively sing lead and play drums at the same time. The only one that immediately springs to mind is Don Henley of The Eagles, and he only does so on a select few of their songs. You should at some time react to some tracks from ‘Second’s Out’. It’s a great comparison of the difference in vocals between Gabriel and Collins as a lot of the material was from the Gabriel period. To my ears, there’s not much difference. Phil does a great job of filling Peter’s shoes (or I guess vocal cords…). Sorry for the extremely long comment, but this was the period where I was introduced to Genesis, and it brings back a lot of great memories.
Chester was not the first drummer they hired to tour once Phil took over the Vocals. Bill Bruford was. I believe some one else already told that story but in fact after having auditioned many potential replacements for Gabriel it was agreed that Phil was better than anyone who they had seen but Phil was very reluctant to leave his drums. It was in a conversation with Bruford when Bill told Phil that he would give the band one year to see how Phil would make out with the front man position. It was after that that the band recruited Chester Thompson as their regular touring drummer.
@@andrewmackinnon3378 of course I should have realized that - Bill was playing on ‘Second’s Out’ (duh…). Chester was behind the kit when I saw them live (‘And Then There Were Three…’ tour). That’s why I assumed he was the first hire. Thanks for the clarification.
Dance On A Volcano: Mike Rutherford on 12 string electric guitar, bass guitar and bass pedals. Tony Banks on keyboards. This song was written by all four members Banks, Collins, Hackett, and Rutherford. Eleventh Earl Of Mar was composed by Banks, Hackett, and Rutherford. Phil had no part in this song other than some of the arranging. Those drum sounds are roto-toms, not electric drums which did not exist in 1976.
A Trick of the Tail was the Genesis album that Princess Diana would listen to from beginning to end. Frankly, I've always been very frustrated that rock stations only ever played Ripples. IMHO it's not even the best song on the album. I am so happy that so much of Genesis' best stuff is now going through this renaissance via reaction videos like yours. Thank you so much. -- As far as the writing and style of the music, Banks was always at the core. He used to fight with Peter sometimes, because Peter was the other driving force, but focused on the vocals. I recommend following the music with the lyrics (often printed inside the album cover in the ole LP days).
To be dead honest, I was more bummed out when Steve left than Peter. ATOTT and W & W are awesome and musically I don’t find myself missing Peter, but on ATTWT , I do find Steve’s non-presence bother some as Steve and Mike would have a lot of acoustic guitar interplay that just disappeared beginning on ATTWT. I do like ATTWT, but that album is the real beginning of the change for me much more than the previous two.
Agree 100%. Steve's departure was much more of a musical loss. That said I do still have a lot of love for ATTWT. I think these three albums all have a seasonal feel for me. TOTT is Summer, WAW most definitely Autumn, and ATTWT is full of Winter feels.
Thanks NicknLex for this excellent reaction. Thanks also to Michael for picking out more of the masterpieces from the post Gabriel era. I listened to these albums when the were new. I was very impressed to hear Genesis moving on with their newer sound but still keeping their roots on these albums and in some ways I enjoyed it more. They started using those "killer" Moog Taurus bass pedals for recordings and in concerts. What a thrill hearing signature bottom end riffs. Couldn’t wait to get home from work and crank some of these Genesis tunes🎶🎶🎶‼️‼️‼️😁
YES!! Genesis' Trick of the Tail is a Top 10, possibly Top 5 album of the rock era. It's very fusion-y. Phil Collins had been drumming with Brand X. And it showed!
I respectfully disagree about Eleventh Earl Of Mar. To me it's still firmly rooted in the 70s prog sound. It's also over 10 minutes long, so we're definitely in classic prog territory there.
And I’m pretty sure vocals would be recorded separately for these studio lps… Bill Bruford of Yes & King Crimson played with them live for a spell… check out the amazing Seconds Out live lp for these guest drummers… or better yet check out the concert movie from that lp…
As it was mentioned by others Phil was NOT the leader and my understanding is that not only did he not want to be the leader but he actually fought the bands direction away from progressive rock and and more towards a pop or commercial sound. Great song choices and reaction.
From the 3rd album onward The Primary so called democratic nucleus was Pete, Tony and Mike because they were all schoolmates. They sometimes would allow ideas in from Phil and Steve. Since Phil was funny he was let in more so than Steve. Tony , Pete and Mike Rutherford argued a lot, and Peter grew increasingly frustrated with trying to get ideas approved by Mike and Tony and that’s why he left. Phil moved into the void to an extent, and became the buffer between them. It wasn’t until Phil’s first solo record that he really felt like a songwriter.
Duke actually received unanimous praise and cranked out 2 hit singles when it came out. But you probabky mean underrated by the classic Genesis fans, and I agree that there are some great pieces on Duke that have been overlooked. And yes, 'And Then There Were Three'...definitely underrated...but Steve's absence is really noticeable.
@@markjohnson4217 For me Duke was the final nail in the coffin for prog Genesis. I bought it without having heard it, which was a mistake. I was so disappointed, I only played it twice, and never again! The first 10 Genesis vinyl albums are worn out beyond playability, replaced by CDs, but Duke is almost mint! I actually listened to it yesterday on TH-cam to see if I was being harsh back in 1980 but no, I was right the first time. I can't find any love for it, with the possible exception of Dukes travels. I've never listened to pop Genesis after 1980. Just my opinion, everyone's different.😈
Bill Bruford covered for Phil on the 1976 Tour on drums while Phils sang front stage. Next year was Chester Thompson on drums who was permanently added for all the subsequent tours. Many drum duet parts live.
Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering are sister albums. I grew up with all three of these albums. They are pure gold to me. I like Peter and Phil. Just like you Nick. And Lex these came out before CD's. Now i feel old. hahaha jk
Two of my all-time favorite Genesis songs. IMO, this was the period when Genesis reached their peak of progressive inspiration, starting with Trick Of The Tail & ending with Duke
The deep bass you’re hearing are Moog Taurus foot pedal synthesizers. That’s the same thing Rush used from A Farewell to Kings album on. They may have even gotten the idea of using Taurus pedals from seeing Genesis. Rush took them a step further by interfacing them with an Oberheim synth to give them more sounds. Kind of doing their own version of midi years before midi was a thing.
The climax ending of Seconds Out will give you all you need. The last 10 minutes was unreal live. The 747 landing lights above the stage pierced thru all that was onstage. 20 feet from center stage was testament to one of the greatest shows ever in Vancouver.
GOD, I wish I could have seen that tour! SHOWCO sound & lighting out of Dallas at the time, did the tour, and they were nothing short of groundbreaking! "Seconds Out" is in my Top 10 fave albums, and probably my favorite live album. It truly was that album that turned me into a Genesis fan!
From a MAJOR Genesis (Fan) ( I was 16-17 when Trick and Wind came out). I too was worried after Peter left. Like many others below, while it was different than PG era Genesis, when Trick came out and then less than a year later, Wind and Wuthering came out, I was like "OK, it's different than Peter, but it's still great". Same with And Then There were Three. When that one first came out, I was like "OK, these guys have sold out", but then over time, I didn't feel that way anymore. Bass Player: Mike Rutherford. After Peter left, the band line up was Phil Collins, Tony Banks (Keyboards); Mike Rutherford (Bass), Steve Hackett - Guitars. After Wind and Wuthering - Steve left and has had a marvelous solo career that is still going strong to this day. That''s why the next album was called "And Then There Were Three" But anyway, Steve Hackett, and of course the cover band The Musical Box (both of whom I saw last fall), are the ones still carrying the banner for Genesis. (Steve knows the guys in The Musical Box very well and fully supports them). But Steve is the last main member still out on tour doing mostly Old Genesis, even in comparison to his own solo work, and he shows no sign of stopping. But he does alot of like "Genesis Revisited" shows. Great backing musicians!! If you want to see older Genesis with the last remaining band member, do yourself a favor and go see Steve Hackett live. You won't regret it! Same for the The Musical Box. Those guys are fantastic as well!
BTW, I am now a MAJOR Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson fan!! When are you guys going to react to the new album Closure / Continuation??? I'm seeing them in DC at The Anthem on 9/18 I believe. Can't wait!
One last thing: Mike Rutherford (Genesis' bass player) had a run with a side project called Mike and the Mechanics in the 1980's. They had some fairly big 80's hits.
Oh, yeah, as someone said below, in fact Phil really COULD NOT play drums and sing at the same time (at least not much), so on tour, they had the incomparable Chester Thompson on tour so Phil could focus mostly on singing. But live he ran like a whirling dervish from his singing microphone, back to his drum kit, and then back to his singing microphone. It was incredible to see.
I've always felt the 'And Then There Were Three' album was a notch down from the two albums that preceded it ('A Trick Of The Tail' and 'Wind And Wuthering'). But I have to say 'Down And Out' is a stormer of a track, and IMO would've sat quite happily on either of its precedessor albums. It has become my favourite track on 'And Then There Were Three'.
While I prefer Duke as my favorite trio album, Down and Out is certainly the proggiest song of the two albums. Actually I was a bit surprised they didn't use it as opener for the 1980 tour set, though they did keep up the tradition of starting off with a song from the previous album with Deep in the Motherlode.
In the studio, Phil would record the drum track separately from his vocal recording. In concert, Genesis had guest drummers play, such as Bill Bruford in 1976 and Chester Thompson from 1977 onward. Check out live tracks from "Seconds Out" to hear both drummers backing up and Phil joining them for the instrumental parts! "Fifth of Firth", "Cinema Show" and "Dance on a Volcano/Los Endos" are 3 particularly great tracks from Seconds Out!
I wore out my original Seconds Out LPs and gladly re-bought it...and wore it out as well. My friends and I were in the 5th row of the Seconds Out tour at the Forum in Los Angeles around 1977. Watching Chester Thompson duel with Phil Collins was incredible.
My first introduction to Genesis was the Trick Of The Tail album. I was hooked after that. Then I saw them live in Edmonton in the very early 80's where I heard them play In The Cage. That led me to their entire Gabriel catalog. Seconds Out is still one of my favorite live albums. Chester Thompson playing drums with Phil is incredible (Los Endos). Bill Bruford shows up on one track as well. One comment on Phil playing drums and singing. On tour, Chester Thompson (and Bill Bruford on one tour) was drumming, and Phil came out front to sing. Phil would go back and do some drum duets occasionally but generally he was out front.
Lucky to have seen the same show at the Colosseum!! Duke tour…I remember ‘The Cage’…really stood out from the early catalog. ‘Seconds Out’ still stands out as one of the best live recordings ever and also got me looking backwards to the Gabriel-Hackett years👍 Cheers!!🇨🇦
On this album: Trick of the tail this includes Dance on a Volcano Genesis Phil Collins - drums, percussion, lead and backing vocals Steve Hackett - electric guitar, 12-string guitars[20] Mike Rutherford - bass guitar, bass pedals, 12-string guitar, backing vocals Tony Banks - pianos, synthesizers, Hammond organ, Mellotron, 12-string guitar, backing vocals
The bassist is Mike Rutherford, same guy that wrote In the Living Years with Mike and the Mechanics. Phil became the focal point of the band, but Tony and Mike were the leaders, especially Tony.
Bill Bruford played the drums (in tandem with Phil) on the Trick of the Tail tour 1975-1976, Chester Thompson played the drums on the Wind and Wuthering tour, as well as the other tours they did. On the recent reunion tour Phil's son Nick played the drums.
Wind and Wuthering isn't usually thought of as a concept album, but musically it is. It follows the classical form of "theme and variations". The into to "Eleventh Earl of Mar" introduces the theme and the other songs present variations. My favorite variation is in the instrumental part of "One For The Vine", where the theme shows up but is inverted,
I would recommend listening to some Brand X with Phil Collins. Jazz fusion to the max and some fantastic drumming. Try "Malaga Virgen" for a start. Live at Ronny Scott's jazz club '76 is brilliant.
I did, back in the early/mid 70's, thnx to my borther-in-law who didn't really care for Genesis. Was way more eclectic, & experimental. Liked some, but back to Genesis.
My understanding from watching the band members do individual interviews in a documentary years ago was that Tony was the principal composer with Rutherford joining him in their pursuit of art. I remember that those two seemed to resent Peter for singing over their intricate work, and so Phil and Peter would do session time together. Hackett seemed even keel. As I remember, Peter leaving was the result of a fraying between the relationship of the Banks and Rutherford team and him. Specifically, I believe they were recording an album when Gabriel's wife went into labor with their first child. Gabriel left to be with her, and Banks and Rutherford told him that he was unprofessional for wasting the studio time. That was the last straw as I recall. I had always assumed that there was competition between Peter and Phil, but to hear them talk about it, they got along great.
To my ears, Tony Banks was the best of the Prog keyboardists at using the organ for those long sustained power chords. Did it all the time with great effect...
I think Phil finally found his frontman voice for "And Then There Were Three" and it happened to be the first album to have a U.S. top 40 hit with "Follow You, Follow Me", a song that defined Mike Rutherford's writing style as the now lead guitarist of the band and in their own words, more women started showing up at their live shows which was definitely a good thing in their eyes!
Once Peter left Phil seldom sang and played at the same time. They brought in Chester Thompson to assist with the drumming live to allow Phil to be the vocal front man. At some point In most concerts Phil would join Chester and have a joint drum duet which was always a concert highlight as they were both so good. Find a live version of conversation with two stools on YT to see them in action.
“Trick of the Tail” - first post-Peter album and pretty much every Genesis fan breathed a sigh of relief as we tealised that the adventure would still go on! A great album, full of great songs from start to finish. Wind & Wuthering” followed on about a year later and would turn out to be Steve Hackett’s last contribution, as there were internal tensions with Steve, particularly feeling under appreciated. Splitting the last track into 2 in an attempt to even out the writing credits still wasn’t enough to keep him on board. “And then there were 3” was rushed out to reassure the fans that the band were going on as a 3-some hiring in talent when touring. Perhaps not their greatest album, but with some really solid songs that leaves a lot of us that this album is under appreciated.
Live after this he only played drums in sections of songs. Phil became the front man. First tour Bill Briford( formerly of YES and King Crimson) then Chester Thompson became their permanent live drummer.
Usually, in the studio, the music bed is laid down first, then the vocals tracks recorded over that. Live, most of the time, Phil would be up front singing while Chester Thompson played drums. During instrumental passages, Phil would jump in behind his own kit.
Duke was the first Genesis album that I fell in love with. It's still one of my all time favorites. Even when Genesis cranked out pop hits, like Invisible Touch and Land of Confusion, they still included a measured dose of Prog, as in Domino and the Brazilian from the same album.
I've seen Genesis live probably about 8 time's since TOTT, and in concert Phil never sang while playing drums, which was why they added Bill Bruford and Chester Thompson. I'm sure in the studio it was multi tracked. When singing Phil was mostly front and center.🤠👍
0:00-3:35 Intro, setup... 3:35-8:25 Dance on a Volcano (incomplete)... 8:25-11:40 Pause for commentary... 11:40-16:25 Continue/finish Dance on a Volcano, begin Eleventh Earl of Mar... 16:25-19:23 Pause for commentary... 19:23-23:23 Continue/finish Eleventh Earl of Mar... 23:23-26:37 Pause for commentary... 26:37-32:04 Down and Out (in its entirety)... 32:04-END Commentary, outro
I saw them at knebworth (just outside London) just after then there were three came out, it was a fantastic concert, it was right at the start of our relationship, allways has held special place in our hearts, faultless performance
No one ever talks about the lyrics in this tune, they are great! I haven't heard much from Genesis about the lyrics, but I think it is a subtle anti-war song. Genesis had a bunch that were anti-war, but not too obviously. The volcano seems to symbolize life; you climb up and better do it right. But there are all these WW1 references about trenches, crosses in green and blue (different gas casulties). "Your friends didn't make it through" It is like you are in the trenches and then have to get out and attack, running through all the firing & shells exploding. War as hell.
Phil did not start really writing until his first solo album/Duke. Tony Banks was the most dominant writer on these three albums, especially And Then There Were Three… Steve Hackett was well represented on Wind and Wuthering, both Dance on a Volcano and Eleventh Earl of Mar were largely band written. Mike Rutherford had writing credits on about half the songs on Trick and Wind. Phil’s writing credits during this era were largely rhythm-based foundations for portions of these songs, and a few lyrical elements.
The musical box...and a fox on the rocks. Be sure to study the album artwork on Trick. The sepia artwork tells the tails. In 1976, my sister Joanie introduced me to Trick of the Tail. I was a hard rock fan at the time and I first considered Genesis very foreign and strange, but it didn't take too long to fall head over heels. A love affair that has lasted almost 50 years. Thank you Joanie.
The first time I saw them in 1980 they started the show with Deep in the Motherlode from …ATTW3. I had binoculars and I’ll always remember seeing some girl in the 3rd row was just freaking out ecstatic 🤩
As I was learning pen and ink in H.S., and was familiar with Genesis in the early ‘80’s, I was drawn to the cover of Trick of the Tail. From there it was my favorite to listen to over and over again. I picked up new sounds every time and even had a dream intertwined with the music. All this love for Genesis made me research them and led me to PG and related artists. I have a HUGE appreciation for Phil, and am grateful he and the other members produced this album. I don’t miss my favorite PG I this album because his influence is still there.
These are three GREAT tunes. They never played 'Down and Out' live to my knowledge. It was incredibly difficult.....doesn't sound like it though. Great musicians. The lyrics on all three are a trip. you could say Down and Out was Genesis' "Have a Cigar" (Pink Floyd) since it is about the pressure of the recording industry and meeting their schedules.
W&W owed a lot to Tony Banks for the compositions. In interviews he often cites it was one of his favourites. Famously Steve didn't contribute much to the song writing (except for the brilliant Blood on the Rooftops). Mike Rutherford also contributed to the writing, and Phil was still mostly involved as arranger, drummer and singer and not as a composer
The drums and the vocals was recorded separately for the studio album guys. Live Bill Bruford then later Chester Thompson did the main drumming. Phil joined them on the drums for the instrumentals
Genesis was a cooperative with all the members contributing to the music but lyrically the primary influence was Phil after Peter left. Arguably TOTT could have been a Peter album, WAW was a transition album and ATWT was the first ‘New Genesis’ Album assisted by the loss of Steve and his characteristic guitar sound. The albums were still of a similar structure though up to the Album Duke which I regard as the last concept/Prog album. After Duke the albums became much more a collection of songs and much more commercial. Occasionally they dropped in a longer prog like song but it became the exception rather than the rule.
Great reaction guys. Mike Rutherford is the bassist. Look at the song writing credits and you'll see that Tony Banks was the key writer in these 3 albums. PC didn't really get into his songwriting until Duke. Note the lack of guitar in the majority of Earl and little Hackett song credits and you'll see why Steve left the band after Wind and Wuthering. And Then There Were 3 is very keyboard dominated since Rutherford was just learning to get to grips as the lead guitarist.
Lex, live performances during '76 to '77 were supplemented by drummers Bill Bruford and Chester Thompson, allowing Phil to take the mic up front. Phil and Chester had some epic drum wars!
...And The There Were Three still holds a special place in my heart, probably because of what was going on in the truly epic (for me) summer of '78. I love the whole thing: every song. Selling England is still my favorite though 😬
I believe you guys reacted to "One for the Vine" from the "Wind and Wuthering" album earlier this year. You two react to so many songs, it's no wonder you forget sometimes. 😉
There needs to be a "Two Thumbs Up"" option for this video... it doesn't get better than this! Now, I love the Peter Gabriel years as frontman and those are brilliant albums, but this era is when I started listening to Genesis when I was young, and it has a special place in my heart and soul. I'm sure it's answered below, but Tony Banks was really the leader of Genesis and this song ("Eleventh Earl of Mar") was written by Tony, Mike and Steve. Phil contributed a lot more on later albums, so I don't think this was influenced by Phil at all. I think it was just the band evolving, as they did with Peter, like you mentioned, how different they sounded on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
Tony was definitely the band leader after Peter left and was the main songwriter. In fact Steve Hackett left after Wind And Wuthering as he felt he was not getting enough of his own material out there hence the title of the next album being And Then There Were Three as from then on Genesis were a 3 piece in the studio. Phil did not play drums and sing at the same time, how could you really at the pace of the songs. On your the had a second drummer. Initially it was Bill Bruford(ex Yes) and then Chester Thompson. Phil would join for instrumental breaks.
AMAZING choices, guys! Dance on a Volcano is my favorite Genesis opener on any record and these are all classics. Glad you liked them! I'm sure there are a zillion choices on your list, but when you swing back to Genesis, listen to a song called 'Driving the Last Spike' from We Can't Dance. I think it's one of their greatest song writing moments of their career, and make sure you READ ALONG WITH THE LYRICS! You'll be in tears.... I promise!
All three of these tracks showcase Phil's greatness IMHO. His drumming was absolutely stellar on all of them. Same applies to Tony's keyboard playing. Down and Out also has a bit of a nasty edge to it which I love too.
Wow, you 2 managed to pick 3 real winners. " Dance " is actually the first song that got me into them without knowing who Genesis was yet. I was only 14 in ' 76 when that one really got my attention. Phil did very well with this band after the departure of Gabriel. And glad you like those particular tracks. Excellent choices !!
Saw them live 1976 in Stockholm. It was on the Seconds Out tour. It was right after Peter had left like you said. I still remember it. They released Seconds Out as a live album. It´s a great recording with songs such as Squank, Robbery battlery and battery and Musical box
Genesis' genius / mastermind is Tony Banks I think. He plays the keys and had a major part in the compositions.
The bass player Mike Rutherford, is in my view an absolute giant when it comes to playing the bass lines as the architecture of the songs and sacrifizing at times his image of bass virtuoso. He is also a very talented and sensitive songwriter and the leader of the band Mike And The Mechanics.
All four instrumentalists :- Banks, Collins, Hackett, Rutherford are fantastically talented at what they do.
All the way through Genesis' history, Mike Rutherford's bass lines are just incredible.
@@keithf_ Completely agree. A PERFECTLY matched ensemble.
He knew how to use those Moog Taurus bass pedals too... to GREAT effect!
Mike & The Mechanics were sappy-really only thinking of their hit singles heard on the radio-The Living Yrs. & All I Need Is A Miracle. It was good enough mind you, but didn't push my buttons too much. Middle of the road chick fare imo. lol
He is also one of the best12 string guitar specialists out there
Dance on a volcano is the first track on the first album without Peter. It came out in early 1976. Phil was convinced to take the lead by circumstances, all the singers who went to the audition weren't able to fit in Peter's shoes. Phil who has learned them the songs was told by his wife "why don't you do it?". So he came the next day and to the surprise of the three others, said "Let me have a go!?".
So he did Squonk (the most difficult one) then one song after one song, without facing it, he had done the whole album. And brillantly. Steve, Mike and Tony were astonished who good he sounded, close to Peter's voice as they thought that his voice wasn't strong enough to carry strong material from Peter's era. So they mixed the album and A trick of the tail came out and was a huge success. The problem next to this was: Who will sing on tour? Phil didn't want to leave his sacred drum stool. One day Phil met Bill Bruford (Yes-King Crimson) during a party or concert, and Phil told him the story and the problem they were dealing with. And Bill said to Phil " I'll play drums and you'll sing" the rest is history.
And no, Peter wasn't the leader from Genesis neither was Phil. The two members that you still don't know well are without doubt the two hidden leaders of Genesis. Tony Banks for the musical side, Mike Rutherford for the managing and political side. Steve Hackett has always been a soloist on Genesis and gaining trust in his skills got more and more frustrated that his material he proposed wasn't more chosen, as Tony's stuff was proeminent.
That's why Steve left, and why the album "...and then there were three" was called like this.
Phil wasn't the leader at all, he was the drummer first when Peter was there, then he did backing vocals and sung on two songs before taking the lead singing. He was the arranger of the music but didn't write really anything till Duke, when he brought Misunderstanding and Please don't ask, which were songs he had written in 1979, during his personnal divorce issues, that will become Face value and so on...
Phil, even during the 80 wasn't the leader, it's a misconception from the audiences who discovered him as a solo artist before knowing about his Genesis past.
Musically and style wise Tony was always the lead and Peter sided with him. Once Peter left there is no denying that Phil took the spotlight live. I am a huge fan of all of them and they represent a huge chunk of the music of my life. It is regretful that they couldn't keep Steve happy. After reading his book you understand that he was socially awkward and wasn't very comfortable live. He's come a long way now and Hackett is a must see.
@@jimdolen225 They weren't the same after Hackett left. Popular, yes. Duke is still a very, very, very good album, though.
Thsts after a few vocal auditions , Franck B!, so Phil gave it a try,....the rest is history!!!
Wonderful thumbnail history!
Do not forget Anthony Phillips, he was only member until Trespass but influenced the Genesis sound a lot. He did really a very Nice solo effort with a lot of fantastic works!
The gem off Wind and Wuthering is Blood on the Rooftops.
Some quick points from a long time fan... Genesis was a collective... Phil was not the band leader, if any thing Tony was the main driving force in the Genesis sound, but certain songs would be written by Mike, Steve, or Tony (or Peter when he was in the band). Phil didn't really start writing songs on his own until Duke (1980) but he was an arranger and would help arrange songs in the writing process. Genesis were always about the song, not showing off (although they could out play any of their peers).... and lastly Phil is as good a drummer as you'll find anywhere... for more evidence check out his work in Brand X his fusion band that started in tandem with Genesis from 76 to 80... I think you'll be impressed. Lastly the comparisons to Rush... Rush were huge Genesis and Yes fans... Peart talks about the influence of Phil in interviews. Lastly Prog Archives are not "professional" reviewers btw, its just fans ratings.
Correctly said bro.
@@kbrewski1 Or, you could let them react the way they want. You're the invited guest here.
@@kevinwatts661 They asked for input.
You are right !!!
Phil did write and sing two or three tunes before Peter left.
And Then There Were Three .............the most underrated album by Genesis . It's absolutely brilliant .
those concert toms on undertow!!
Genesis were five not three....They played prog rock not disco
@@battiteneubelin7058 And Then Was An Idiot
Agreed. I'm a huge fan of this album. Rich textures and powerful choruses.
@@battiteneubelin7058 And Then There Were Three was not disco, and it wasn't pop.
Wind and Wuthering is by far my favorite non-Gabriel album. This track from it is great but I've always loved "Blood on the Rooftops" the most. Maybe someone will request that one soon. Thanks for this reaction and the requester picking these tracks. Love these marathons as they really are a great idea (and, as far as I know, no other reactors do this format). 👍
Seconded for Blood on the Rooftops
Third Blood on The Rooftops…
Oh yes!! Please do blood on the rooftops, killer song 'pardon the pun'.😁
Make mine the 6th recommendation for Blood on the Rooftops. My favorite off of Wind and Wuthering!
Blood on the Rooftops to the end of the album is perfection.
Seconds Out double live album is next level. The power surges are something else from beginning to end
Peter and Tony were the principal architects of early Genesis but after Peter left Phil's influence and especially with Hackett on lead changed the sound quite a bit. Both iconic and amazing but certainly different.
Eleventh Earl Of Mar (In Castilian : Eleventh Earl of Mar) is the opening song of the album Wind & Wuthering of Genesis in 1976 .
The song is about the Jacobite rebellion of 1715 . The Earl of Mar, John Erskine , led the rebel forces (with the title of "The Great Pretender"), but in reality he was an incompetent general, who wasted all strategic advantages by camping near the city of Perth for a week, giving the Royal forces of the opposition time to organize.
This John Erskine is the 6th Earl of Mar de jure , the 22nd according to the old enumeration and the Eleventh according to the Scottish enumeration which is the one used in the title of the song. The song is very precise and sarcastic about the Count.
The two guys you can't think of are the two main songwriters, Mike Rutherford on bass and rhythm guitars and Tony Banks, the classiest prog keyboardist out there.
When in the studio, Phil records his drums abd vocals separately and they hired a drummer for touring so Phil spends most of the show out front as lead singer, but would hop on drums here and there and have a drum battle with Chester Thompson (Bill Bruford on the first post Peter tour in 1976).
I think it's fair to say that the dominant member of Genesis was always Tony Banks. He poured so much into the band that his solo work was a bit "thin".
Imagine Genesis without those soul soaring keyboards.
The sum of the parts made Genesis special, how can you make a ranking of the members , come on!
@@akio2730 You read my intention wrongly. Tony dominated and butted heads about musical decisions. This kind of internal strife makes better music, but leads to members leaving when they've had enough.
Gentlemen. We are talking Genesis. Michael Rutherford included! Who?!?
Listen, enjoy!!!
Oh, by the way 'The Eleventh Earl of Mar' is sick beyond bickering.
And he always used interesting chords
"Dance" and "Down and Out" share those very unconventional times signatures. Good choices.
First of all, Phil Collins is a beast on the drums. As a drummer myself, I feel he is very underrated. As far as singing and drumming at the same time, it is extremely difficult. The sound of the drums projects outward from the drums, so it’s generally not a problem for a vocal mic. For the most part however, Phil would not play and sing at the same time. Chester Thompson would be playing drums while Phil would sing and then, Phil would jump in on his kit during the instrumental parts of the song and they would play together. Also extremely difficult.
I don't think Phil's drumming in the right circles is underrated. He is exceptional. Now Jethro's Barriemore Barlow is an underrated drummer. As Zep's Bonzo said - the best he has heard.
There were times in the Gabriel days when Phil would sing backup vocals while drumming. But these parts were usually short and not very demanding.
@@kbrewski1 There's also Afterglow
The news of Peter's departure did concern me at first but as soon as I heard Dance on a Volcano I knew there was no problem. Next in was Entangled, what an amazing track, the Hackett 12 string, Phil's harmonies and Tony's mellotron. Phil took Genesis into a new stage of vocalisation much the same as Steve Hogarth did with Marillion. I agree with B Mac that they lost much more when Steve left the band.
Agree, but from "Duke" onwards they became a little more "Poppy".
I always got the feeling that Tony Banks was the leader.
@@lansorbet5882 Yes, I've heard Tony was a borderline control freak... and was at least part of the reason both Peter and Steve ultimately left (though definitely not the only one).
Tony’s long-form interviews on TH-cam are compelling. And I love his solo work.
At least he dominated the sound. For me since Genesis started, beside Pete, Phil, Mike and Steve, it was always the keyboards, thinking on Genesis, and it was Tony Banks.
@@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy a Peter close Friend and thats one of the reasons he left the band
"Eleventh..." is surely among the top five songs in the entire Genesis catalogue. Perhaps the most epic.
And W&W has the best cover art in all of music history.
Down & Out is an absolute belter. One of my all time fave Genesis songs, and a brilliant album opener.
To repeat the wise words of Frank van Will, from the comments below: "Dance on a Volcano - Los Endos from Seconds Out is for me the definitive version. Phil is amazing on that one." They were my thoughts almost exactly. I first heard the outstanding live "Seconds Out" album, and saw that tour, with the powerhouse Chester Thompson also on drums, performing at a more rapid clip. When I heard the studio version it sounded wooden and a tad too careful by comparison.
Had I a marathon request in the queue, I would say to take your time, lest it become more a labor than a love.
Dance on a Volcano/Los Endos from Seconds Out is perfection.
Born and raised on Genesis - from my older brothers. I'm happy to see younger people getting into this music. It is hands-down some of the BEST music out there - and much is largely unknown to many.
Thanks Nick, Alexia and Michael for a great Genesis marathon. It's always great to hear Genesis, and it always stimulates discussion! There's lots of info below for you to absorb guys, but in my humble opinion - There was never a leader in Genesis. individual members would bring pieces into the studio for the rest to listen to, and often they would be incorporated with others, and the writers of those would collaborate; an example being 'Eleventh Earl Of Mar' which is credited to Banks/Rutherford/Hackett. No Collins there Nick, Phil didn't start contributing fully until 'Duke'. In fact after 'Duke' was released there was a disagreement between Phil and Tony/Mike who both asked why 'In The Air Tonight' hadn't been submitted to the band for the 'Duke' sessions. Phil said that he had submitted it, but Tony and Mike said 'No way. We would have gone with that song'! There's no doubt that Tony was a strong personality, but he, Mike and Peter were the core in the early days. Don't forget, Phil and Steve only joined prior to 'Nursery Chryme' and they had to assert themselves. Some comments on these three albums :-
'A Trick Of The Tail' - my reaction when I heard it Nick was one of relief! Thank heavens it's good was my initial reaction, and I soon grew to love it. Lots of great songs with 'Entangled' a personal favourite.
'Wind and Wuthering' - I have to disagree with you here Nick. I think it's far away from the 80's music, still pretty proggy, and when I listen to 'Blood On The Rooftops' I still feel sad. Steve left after this album because he felt his material was being overlooked, and this was his song and the standout track on the album. Check out his version on TH-cam with his Genesis Revisited band plus orchestra. It is stunning!
'And Then There Were Three' - This was the first Genesis album where I felt underwhelmed. I certainly think Steve was missed. The guitar sounds heavier Nick, because Mike (and he would agree) was never the player Steve was. He didn't have his subtlety and technique. Some of the songs were quite 'average' in comparison with what went before, and it had the mediocre 'Follow You, Follow Me', a Top 20 single that was the shape of things to come. I have never liked that song.
As you know, I am a huge Genesis fan, I have all their albums, and first saw them in 1972 on the 'Foxtrot' tour, and I love the fact that their career provides so many opportunities for discussion and debate. We must have more from these three albums before we move on. Thanks again.
You’ve entered into what I like to call the ‘David Hentschel’ phase of their career. He was the producer on all three of these albums. He was also the one who created the amazing synthesizer orchestration for the intro to Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend” (I think you’ve done that one already - if not, definitely do it!).
“Eleventh Earl of Mar” was the very first Genesis song I ever heard. A late night DJ on a Detroit based FM station played it and I was immediately intrigued.
I kinda feel sorry for you, Nick. Your first impression of them was way late into their career during a time when they were actively chasing commercial success. This period was a long way from where they started and they had really lost what they originally intended to do musically, IMHO.
As to the title ‘And Then There Were Three…’. That was a direct reference to the fact that Steve Hackett had just left the band.
I saw them live on the tour for this album. Regrettably it’s the only time I ever witnessed them play live. It was an unforgettable experience though…
For live performances, they recruited Chester Thompson to play drums and Daryl Stuermer to take the place of Hackett.
Phil never did any more than sing backup during the Gabriel phase of the band. When he took over vocals, he knew that a lead singer needed to be out front, hence the hiring of Chester.
There’s only a handful of drummers who can effectively sing lead and play drums at the same time. The only one that immediately springs to mind is Don Henley of The Eagles, and he only does so on a select few of their songs.
You should at some time react to some tracks from ‘Second’s Out’. It’s a great comparison of the difference in vocals between Gabriel and Collins as a lot of the material was from the Gabriel period. To my ears, there’s not much difference. Phil does a great job of filling Peter’s shoes (or I guess vocal cords…).
Sorry for the extremely long comment, but this was the period where I was introduced to Genesis, and it brings back a lot of great memories.
Chester was not the first drummer they hired to tour once Phil took over the Vocals. Bill Bruford was. I believe some one else already told that story but in fact after having auditioned many potential replacements for Gabriel it was agreed that Phil was better than anyone who they had seen but Phil was very reluctant to leave his drums. It was in a conversation with Bruford when Bill told Phil that he would give the band one year to see how Phil would make out with the front man position. It was after that that the band recruited Chester Thompson as their regular touring drummer.
@@andrewmackinnon3378 of course I should have realized that - Bill was playing on ‘Second’s Out’ (duh…). Chester was behind the kit when I saw them live (‘And Then There Were Three…’ tour). That’s why I assumed he was the first hire. Thanks for the clarification.
Actually, Phil Collins handled lead vocal on More Fool Me, from Selling England by the Pound.
Dance On A Volcano: Mike Rutherford on 12 string electric guitar, bass guitar and bass pedals. Tony Banks on keyboards. This song was written by all four members Banks, Collins, Hackett, and Rutherford. Eleventh Earl Of Mar was composed by Banks, Hackett, and Rutherford. Phil had no part in this song other than some of the arranging. Those drum sounds are roto-toms, not electric drums which did not exist in 1976.
A Trick of the Tail was the Genesis album that Princess Diana would listen to from beginning to end. Frankly, I've always been very frustrated that rock stations only ever played Ripples. IMHO it's not even the best song on the album. I am so happy that so much of Genesis' best stuff is now going through this renaissance via reaction videos like yours. Thank you so much. -- As far as the writing and style of the music, Banks was always at the core. He used to fight with Peter sometimes, because Peter was the other driving force, but focused on the vocals. I recommend following the music with the lyrics (often printed inside the album cover in the ole LP days).
My favorite Genesis album, every song is great.
Dance...and Squonk are so unique.
To be dead honest, I was more bummed out when Steve left than Peter. ATOTT and W & W are awesome and musically I don’t find myself missing Peter, but on ATTWT , I do find Steve’s non-presence bother some as Steve and Mike would have a lot of acoustic guitar interplay that just disappeared beginning on ATTWT. I do like ATTWT, but that album is the real beginning of the change for me much more than the previous two.
Same here. For me Steve was the bigger loss.
Agree 100%. Steve's departure was much more of a musical loss. That said I do still have a lot of love for ATTWT. I think these three albums all have a seasonal feel for me. TOTT is Summer, WAW most definitely Autumn, and ATTWT is full of Winter feels.
Completely agree.
My thoughts exactly. ATTWT marks the beginning of the unfourtunate slide towards pop dominated Genesis.
@@adam872
I agree. Steve's influence was often disguised, but in retrospect all along it was helping to steer the prog course.
Thanks NicknLex for this excellent reaction. Thanks also to Michael for picking out more of the masterpieces from the post Gabriel era. I listened to these albums when the were new. I was very impressed to hear Genesis moving on with their newer sound but still keeping their roots on these albums and in some ways I enjoyed it more. They started using those "killer" Moog Taurus bass pedals for recordings and in concerts. What a thrill hearing signature bottom end riffs. Couldn’t wait to get home from work and crank some of these Genesis tunes🎶🎶🎶‼️‼️‼️😁
YES!! Genesis' Trick of the Tail is a Top 10, possibly Top 5 album of the rock era. It's very fusion-y. Phil Collins had been drumming with Brand X. And it showed!
I respectfully disagree about Eleventh Earl Of Mar. To me it's still firmly rooted in the 70s prog sound. It's also over 10 minutes long, so we're definitely in classic prog territory there.
Yeah, they clearly haven't heard enough '80s Genesis yet, with all those drum machines and generic-sounding synths. 🤔
Er... over 7 mins long to be picky!
agree
@@warrenbutson349 Could have sworn it was longer. My bad. I still maintain it's more classic 70s prog Genesis than 80s pop Genesis.
7 minutes, 45 seconds to be *really* picky!
When playing live, Chester Thompson played the drums usually when Phil was singing
And I’m pretty sure vocals would be recorded separately for these studio lps… Bill Bruford of Yes & King Crimson played with them live for a spell… check out the amazing Seconds Out live lp for these guest drummers… or better yet check out the concert movie from that lp…
Chester Thompson pretty much became a fixture for Genesis tours. But when I saw Genesis (the first post-Gabriel) it was Bill Buford (of Yes) on drums.
Phil and Chester's live drum duets were awesome. Going into the concert and seeing two full drum sets on stage was very impressive.
@@greghalterman3141 Never seen them live. Sad.
Soon as I heard the 1st notes of Dance on a volcano as a young child I was hooked!
As it was mentioned by others Phil was NOT the leader and my understanding is that not only did he not want to be the leader but he actually fought the bands direction away from progressive rock and and more towards a pop or commercial sound. Great song choices and reaction.
This takes me right back to highschool!
From the 3rd album onward The Primary so called democratic nucleus was Pete, Tony and Mike because they were all schoolmates. They sometimes would allow ideas in from Phil and Steve. Since Phil was funny he was let in more so than Steve. Tony , Pete and Mike Rutherford argued a lot, and Peter grew increasingly frustrated with trying to get ideas approved by Mike and Tony and that’s why he left. Phil moved into the void to an extent, and became the buffer between them. It wasn’t until Phil’s first solo record that he really felt like a songwriter.
You can't go wrong with early Genesis!
Then there were three and Duke albums are massively underrated still to this day and I think they will be 2 of your faves for sure
Duke actually received unanimous praise and cranked out 2 hit singles when it came out. But you probabky mean underrated by the classic Genesis fans, and I agree that there are some great pieces on Duke that have been overlooked. And yes, 'And Then There Were Three'...definitely underrated...but Steve's absence is really noticeable.
@@markjohnson4217 For me Duke was the final nail in the coffin for prog Genesis. I bought it without having heard it, which was a mistake. I was so disappointed, I only played it twice, and never again! The first 10 Genesis vinyl albums are worn out beyond playability, replaced by CDs, but Duke is almost mint! I actually listened to it yesterday on TH-cam to see if I was being harsh back in 1980 but no, I was right the first time. I can't find any love for it, with the possible exception of Dukes travels. I've never listened to pop Genesis after 1980. Just my opinion, everyone's different.😈
Suppers Ready live in Paris 77. Phil off the chain and the band create unparalleled atmospheres. Will affect you like Awaken by Yes, if not more
Bill Bruford covered for Phil on the 1976 Tour on drums while Phils sang front stage. Next year was Chester Thompson on drums who was permanently added for all the subsequent tours. Many drum duet parts live.
A TRICK OF THE TALE AND WIND AND WUTHERING ARE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION THE 2 BEST ALBUMS FROM GENESIS
The last two classic albums.
They are! They are the best Genesis albums after Gabriel left 😉
Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering are sister albums. I grew up with all three of these albums. They are pure gold to me. I like Peter and Phil. Just like you Nick. And Lex these came out before CD's. Now i feel old. hahaha jk
Two of my all-time favorite Genesis songs. IMO, this was the period when Genesis reached their peak of progressive inspiration, starting with Trick Of The Tail & ending with Duke
The deep bass you’re hearing are Moog Taurus foot pedal synthesizers. That’s the same thing Rush used from A Farewell to Kings album on. They may have even gotten the idea of using Taurus pedals from seeing Genesis. Rush took them a step further by interfacing them with an Oberheim synth to give them more sounds. Kind of doing their own version of midi years before midi was a thing.
The climax ending of Seconds Out will give you all you need. The last 10 minutes was unreal live. The 747 landing lights above the stage pierced thru all that was onstage. 20 feet from center stage was testament to one of the greatest shows ever in Vancouver.
GOD, I wish I could have seen that tour! SHOWCO sound & lighting out of Dallas at the time, did the tour, and they were nothing short of groundbreaking!
"Seconds Out" is in my Top 10 fave albums, and probably my favorite live album. It truly was that album that turned me into a Genesis fan!
Down and Out is pure prog.✌️
From a MAJOR Genesis (Fan) ( I was 16-17 when Trick and Wind came out). I too was worried after Peter left. Like many others below, while it was different than PG era Genesis, when Trick came out and then less than a year later, Wind and Wuthering came out, I was like "OK, it's different than Peter, but it's still great". Same with And Then There were Three. When that one first came out, I was like "OK, these guys have sold out", but then over time, I didn't feel that way anymore. Bass Player: Mike Rutherford. After Peter left, the band line up was Phil Collins, Tony Banks (Keyboards); Mike Rutherford (Bass), Steve Hackett - Guitars. After Wind and Wuthering - Steve left and has had a marvelous solo career that is still going strong to this day. That''s why the next album was called "And Then There Were Three"
But anyway, Steve Hackett, and of course the cover band The Musical Box (both of whom I saw last fall), are the ones still carrying the banner for Genesis. (Steve knows the guys in The Musical Box very well and fully supports them). But Steve is the last main member still out on tour doing mostly Old Genesis, even in comparison to his own solo work, and he shows no sign of stopping. But he does alot of like "Genesis Revisited" shows. Great backing musicians!! If you want to see older Genesis with the last remaining band member, do yourself a favor and go see Steve Hackett live. You won't regret it! Same for the The Musical Box. Those guys are fantastic as well!
BTW, I am now a MAJOR Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson fan!! When are you guys going to react to the new album Closure / Continuation??? I'm seeing them in DC at The Anthem on 9/18 I believe. Can't wait!
One last thing: Mike Rutherford (Genesis' bass player) had a run with a side project called Mike and the Mechanics in the 1980's. They had some fairly big 80's hits.
Oh, yeah, as someone said below, in fact Phil really COULD NOT play drums and sing at the same time (at least not much), so on tour, they had the incomparable Chester Thompson on tour so Phil could focus mostly on singing. But live he ran like a whirling dervish from his singing microphone, back to his drum kit, and then back to his singing microphone. It was incredible to see.
Princess Diana loved this song. Matter of fact, Trick of the Tail was her favorite album ever.
Steve Hackett is, to me, a very underrated guitarist, the guy’s amazing. Maybe you guys could react to some of his solo work?
_Shadow of the Hierophant_ is a classic.
Ace of Wands is a jam²
Trick of the Tail is my favourite WHOLE album by Genesis (I have them all). I always paly whole albums but this one has NO filler. Its all superb.
I've always felt the 'And Then There Were Three' album was a notch down from the two albums that preceded it ('A Trick Of The Tail' and 'Wind And Wuthering').
But I have to say 'Down And Out' is a stormer of a track, and IMO would've sat quite happily on either of its precedessor albums. It has become my favourite track on 'And Then There Were Three'.
While I prefer Duke as my favorite trio album, Down and Out is certainly the proggiest song of the two albums. Actually I was a bit surprised they didn't use it as opener for the 1980 tour set, though they did keep up the tradition of starting off with a song from the previous album with Deep in the Motherlode.
3 songs are real hits, they are in my top 10 of all Genesis discography.
In the studio, Phil would record the drum track separately from his vocal recording. In concert, Genesis had guest drummers play, such as Bill Bruford in 1976 and Chester Thompson from 1977 onward. Check out live tracks from "Seconds Out" to hear both drummers backing up and Phil joining them for the instrumental parts! "Fifth of Firth", "Cinema Show" and "Dance on a Volcano/Los Endos" are 3 particularly great tracks from Seconds Out!
Thanks, you've saved me the job (although I have written this); I don't have to explain about Phil singing and drumming on albums to them now.
Don't forget the Apocalypse section on Seconds Out.
@@jimhardiman3836 absolutely!! Good call!
I wore out my original Seconds Out LPs and gladly re-bought it...and wore it out as well. My friends and I were in the 5th row of the Seconds Out tour at the Forum in Los Angeles around 1977. Watching Chester Thompson duel with Phil Collins was incredible.
My first introduction to Genesis was the Trick Of The Tail album. I was hooked after that. Then I saw them live in Edmonton in the very early 80's where I heard them play In The Cage. That led me to their entire Gabriel catalog. Seconds Out is still one of my favorite live albums. Chester Thompson playing drums with Phil is incredible (Los Endos). Bill Bruford shows up on one track as well.
One comment on Phil playing drums and singing. On tour, Chester Thompson (and Bill Bruford on one tour) was drumming, and Phil came out front to sing. Phil would go back and do some drum duets occasionally but generally he was out front.
Lucky to have seen the same show at the Colosseum!! Duke tour…I remember ‘The Cage’…really stood out from the early catalog. ‘Seconds Out’ still stands out as one of the best live recordings ever and also got me looking backwards to the Gabriel-Hackett years👍 Cheers!!🇨🇦
On this album: Trick of the tail
this includes Dance on a Volcano
Genesis
Phil Collins - drums, percussion, lead and backing vocals
Steve Hackett - electric guitar, 12-string guitars[20]
Mike Rutherford - bass guitar, bass pedals, 12-string guitar, backing vocals
Tony Banks - pianos, synthesizers, Hammond organ, Mellotron, 12-string guitar, backing vocals
The bassist is Mike Rutherford, same guy that wrote In the Living Years with Mike and the Mechanics. Phil became the focal point of the band, but Tony and Mike were the leaders, especially Tony.
Bill Bruford played the drums (in tandem with Phil) on the Trick of the Tail tour 1975-1976, Chester Thompson played the drums on the Wind and Wuthering tour, as well as the other tours they did. On the recent reunion tour Phil's son Nick played the drums.
Wind and Wuthering isn't usually thought of as a concept album, but musically it is. It follows the classical form of "theme and variations". The into to "Eleventh Earl of Mar" introduces the theme and the other songs present variations. My favorite variation is in the instrumental part of "One For The Vine", where the theme shows up but is inverted,
Loved this reaction. I´m glad you like Genesis. My favorite band.
I would recommend listening to some Brand X with Phil Collins. Jazz fusion to the max and some fantastic drumming. Try "Malaga Virgen" for a start. Live at Ronny Scott's jazz club '76 is brilliant.
I did, back in the early/mid 70's, thnx to my borther-in-law who didn't really care for Genesis. Was way more eclectic, & experimental. Liked some, but back to Genesis.
My understanding from watching the band members do individual interviews in a documentary years ago was that Tony was the principal composer with Rutherford joining him in their pursuit of art. I remember that those two seemed to resent Peter for singing over their intricate work, and so Phil and Peter would do session time together. Hackett seemed even keel.
As I remember, Peter leaving was the result of a fraying between the relationship of the Banks and Rutherford team and him. Specifically, I believe they were recording an album when Gabriel's wife went into labor with their first child. Gabriel left to be with her, and Banks and Rutherford told him that he was unprofessional for wasting the studio time. That was the last straw as I recall.
I had always assumed that there was competition between Peter and Phil, but to hear them talk about it, they got along great.
The drumming is just beautiful!!
To my ears, Tony Banks was the best of the Prog keyboardists at using the organ for those long sustained power chords. Did it all the time with great effect...
I agree completelly
I think Phil finally found his frontman voice for "And Then There Were Three" and it happened to be the first album to have a U.S. top 40 hit with "Follow You, Follow Me", a song that defined Mike Rutherford's writing style as the now lead guitarist of the band and in their own words, more women started showing up at their live shows which was definitely a good thing in their eyes!
That is why Genesis hired a drummer for live shows (there were two drum kits on satge). On the tour for this that was BILL BRUFORD!!!!
Once Peter left Phil seldom sang and played at the same time. They brought in Chester Thompson to assist with the drumming live to allow Phil to be the vocal front man. At some point In most concerts Phil would join Chester and have a joint drum duet which was always a concert highlight as they were both so good. Find a live version of conversation with two stools on YT to see them in action.
“Trick of the Tail” - first post-Peter album and pretty much every Genesis fan breathed a sigh of relief as we tealised that the adventure would still go on! A great album, full of great songs from start to finish. Wind & Wuthering” followed on about a year later and would turn out to be Steve Hackett’s last contribution, as there were internal tensions with Steve, particularly feeling under appreciated. Splitting the last track into 2 in an attempt to even out the writing credits still wasn’t enough to keep him on board. “And then there were 3” was rushed out to reassure the fans that the band were going on as a 3-some hiring in talent when touring. Perhaps not their greatest album, but with some really solid songs that leaves a lot of us that this album is under appreciated.
Live after this he only played drums in sections of songs. Phil became the front man. First tour Bill Briford( formerly of YES and King Crimson) then Chester Thompson became their permanent live drummer.
Usually, in the studio, the music bed is laid down first, then the vocals tracks recorded over that. Live, most of the time, Phil would be up front singing while Chester Thompson played drums. During instrumental passages, Phil would jump in behind his own kit.
Duke was the first Genesis album that I fell in love with. It's still one of my all time favorites. Even when Genesis cranked out pop hits, like Invisible Touch and Land of Confusion, they still included a measured dose of Prog, as in Domino and the Brazilian from the same album.
Down and out, criminally insane drum pattern!!!!!!
I've seen Genesis live probably about 8 time's since TOTT, and in concert Phil never sang while playing drums, which was why they added Bill Bruford and Chester Thompson. I'm sure in the studio it was multi tracked. When singing Phil was mostly front and center.🤠👍
0:00-3:35 Intro, setup... 3:35-8:25 Dance on a Volcano (incomplete)... 8:25-11:40 Pause for commentary... 11:40-16:25 Continue/finish Dance on a Volcano, begin Eleventh Earl of Mar... 16:25-19:23 Pause for commentary... 19:23-23:23 Continue/finish Eleventh Earl of Mar... 23:23-26:37 Pause for commentary... 26:37-32:04 Down and Out (in its entirety)... 32:04-END Commentary, outro
THANK YOU! Updated! :)
I saw them at knebworth (just outside London) just after then there were three came out, it was a fantastic concert, it was right at the start of our relationship, allways has held special place in our hearts, faultless performance
"...and lava's the lover that licks your boots away....." what a great line
No one ever talks about the lyrics in this tune, they are great! I haven't heard much from Genesis about the lyrics, but I think it is a subtle anti-war song. Genesis had a bunch that were anti-war, but not too obviously. The volcano seems to symbolize life; you climb up and better do it right. But there are all these WW1 references about trenches, crosses in green and blue (different gas casulties). "Your friends didn't make it through" It is like you are in the trenches and then have to get out and attack, running through all the firing & shells exploding. War as hell.
Phenomenal from the Great GENESIS 💫❤️☝️
Phil did not start really writing until his first solo album/Duke.
Tony Banks was the most dominant writer on these three albums, especially And Then There Were Three…
Steve Hackett was well represented on Wind and Wuthering, both Dance on a Volcano and Eleventh Earl of Mar were largely band written.
Mike Rutherford had writing credits on about half the songs on Trick and Wind.
Phil’s writing credits during this era were largely rhythm-based foundations for portions of these songs, and a few lyrical elements.
The musical box...and a fox on the rocks.
Be sure to study the album artwork on Trick. The sepia artwork tells the tails.
In 1976, my sister Joanie introduced me to Trick of the Tail. I was a hard rock fan at the time and I first considered Genesis very foreign and strange, but it didn't take too long to fall head over heels. A love affair that has lasted almost 50 years. Thank you Joanie.
The first time I saw them in 1980 they started the show with Deep in the Motherlode from …ATTW3. I had binoculars and I’ll always remember seeing some girl in the 3rd row was just freaking out ecstatic 🤩
As I was learning pen and ink in H.S., and was familiar with Genesis in the early ‘80’s, I was drawn to the cover of Trick of the Tail. From there it was my favorite to listen to over and over again. I picked up new sounds every time and even had a dream intertwined with the music. All this love for Genesis made me research them and led me to PG and related artists. I have a HUGE appreciation for Phil, and am grateful he and the other members produced this album. I don’t miss my favorite PG I this album because his influence is still there.
These are three GREAT tunes. They never played 'Down and Out' live to my knowledge. It was incredibly difficult.....doesn't sound like it though. Great musicians. The lyrics on all three are a trip. you could say Down and Out was Genesis' "Have a Cigar" (Pink Floyd) since it is about the pressure of the recording industry and meeting their schedules.
W&W owed a lot to Tony Banks for the compositions. In interviews he often cites it was one of his favourites. Famously Steve didn't contribute much to the song writing (except for the brilliant Blood on the Rooftops). Mike Rutherford also contributed to the writing, and Phil was still mostly involved as arranger, drummer and singer and not as a composer
The drums and the vocals was recorded separately for the studio album guys. Live Bill Bruford then later Chester Thompson did the main drumming. Phil joined them on the drums for the instrumentals
The first two songs are a couple of my favorite Genesis songs!
Genesis never really had just a bassist. Mike Rutherford played bass, guitar, 12 string etc #nicknlexrequest
Genesis was a cooperative with all the members contributing to the music but lyrically the primary influence was Phil after Peter left. Arguably TOTT could have been a Peter album, WAW was a transition album and ATWT was the first ‘New Genesis’ Album assisted by the loss of Steve and his characteristic guitar sound. The albums were still of a similar structure though up to the Album Duke which I regard as the last concept/Prog album. After Duke the albums became much more a collection of songs and much more commercial. Occasionally they dropped in a longer prog like song but it became the exception rather than the rule.
Great reaction guys.
Mike Rutherford is the bassist.
Look at the song writing credits and you'll see that Tony Banks was the key writer in these 3 albums.
PC didn't really get into his songwriting until Duke.
Note the lack of guitar in the majority of Earl and little Hackett song credits and you'll see why Steve left the band after Wind and Wuthering. And Then There Were 3 is very keyboard dominated since Rutherford was just learning to get to grips as the lead guitarist.
Phil rarely sang and played drums at the same time. He recorded vocals and drums separately.
I’m not sure he ever did them at the same time, other than singing backing/harmony vocals with Gabriel.
Tony Banks (keyboards,12 string guitar)is in charge.
Lex, live performances during '76 to '77 were supplemented by drummers Bill Bruford and Chester Thompson, allowing Phil to take the mic up front. Phil and Chester had some epic drum wars!
Thanks!! :)
...And The There Were Three still holds a special place in my heart, probably because of what was going on in the truly epic (for me) summer of '78. I love the whole thing: every song. Selling England is still my favorite though 😬
I believe you guys reacted to "One for the Vine" from the "Wind and Wuthering" album earlier this year. You two react to so many songs, it's no wonder you forget sometimes. 😉
There needs to be a "Two Thumbs Up"" option for this video... it doesn't get better than this! Now, I love the Peter Gabriel years as frontman and those are brilliant albums, but this era is when I started listening to Genesis when I was young, and it has a special place in my heart and soul. I'm sure it's answered below, but Tony Banks was really the leader of Genesis and this song ("Eleventh Earl of Mar") was written by Tony, Mike and Steve. Phil contributed a lot more on later albums, so I don't think this was influenced by Phil at all. I think it was just the band evolving, as they did with Peter, like you mentioned, how different they sounded on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
Tony was definitely the band leader after Peter left and was the main songwriter. In fact Steve Hackett left after Wind And Wuthering as he felt he was not getting enough of his own material out there hence the title of the next album being And Then There Were Three as from then on Genesis were a 3 piece in the studio. Phil did not play drums and sing at the same time, how could you really at the pace of the songs. On your the had a second drummer. Initially it was Bill Bruford(ex Yes) and then Chester Thompson. Phil would join for instrumental breaks.
AMAZING choices, guys! Dance on a Volcano is my favorite Genesis opener on any record and these are all classics. Glad you liked them! I'm sure there are a zillion choices on your list, but when you swing back to Genesis, listen to a song called 'Driving the Last Spike' from We Can't Dance. I think it's one of their greatest song writing moments of their career, and make sure you READ ALONG WITH THE LYRICS! You'll be in tears.... I promise!
All three of these tracks showcase Phil's greatness IMHO. His drumming was absolutely stellar on all of them. Same applies to Tony's keyboard playing. Down and Out also has a bit of a nasty edge to it which I love too.
Wow, you 2 managed to pick 3 real winners. " Dance " is actually the first song that got me into them
without knowing who Genesis was yet. I was only 14 in ' 76 when that one really got my attention. Phil did very well with this band after the departure of Gabriel. And glad you like those particular tracks.
Excellent choices !!
Great marathon. Enjoyed it.
Trick of the Tail is one of the best albums I have ever heard. No week tracks.
Foxtrot has no "week tracks"...😉
So we enter the odd-time signature prog period of Genesis... LOTS of good material here
Down and out, favorite for sure, comparable to Pink Floyd’s welcome to the machine. Enjoy, epic era for genesis.
Saw them live 1976 in Stockholm. It was on the Seconds Out tour. It was right after Peter had left like you said. I still remember it. They released Seconds Out as a live album. It´s a great recording with songs such as Squank, Robbery battlery and battery and Musical box