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Video Game Revolvers Are Surprisingly Weird
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ส.ค. 2021
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Music: The Milano Chase - The Whole Other
The Colonel - Zachariah Hickman
Games played in this video: Paladins, CS:GO, COD: MW, Valorant, Overwatch
Double action revolver footage courtesy of Everything In Slow Motion under a CC 3.0 Attribution License
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Single action revolver footage courtesy of JED iTV under a CC 3.0 Attribution License
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Third option: after each shot, have the character automatically cock the hammer as if it were a single-action revolver.
That might be the best option yet, since it doesn't require you to hold down the fire button, and could shoot instantly, and would also look real
The Alt Revolvers in ULTRAKILL do this. The standard revolver is snappy and fires like a semi-auto pistol, but the alternate trades higher stopping power for slower fire rate, implemented by cocking the hammer after each shot.
Yus Red Dead Redemption 2 guns are doing it right
Still sad no one is talking about Hunt: Showdown
Your comment got liked 69 times.
A revolver having a delay can make it feel very punchy and meaty, if the animations are designed for that. It helps if the payoff is good.
Single action revolvers can be done by having the cocking animation be automatic after firing, which fits into the slower firerate.
You should look up autorevolvers as well, they're an interesting edge case in the world of revolvers. The recoil from firing is used to recock the hammer and index the cylinder.
I was about to say, who would want a blowback operated revolver? until i realized I want a blowback operated revolver
yes
@@garbaj technically revolvers don't have slides or bolts, so really they work on recoil operation. the most recognizable auto-revolver is the Webley Fosbery, basically a standard Webley that's been cut in half. the top half recoils independently of the grip, and tracks on the cylinder that index with a pin on the frame rotate the cylinder. Mateba also makes a more modern autorevolver similar in looks to the rhino shown in the pubg clip that is a bit more complex. the autorevolver from the medic class in bf1 was a Webley Fosbery
@@garbaj Technically, semi auto pistols are blowback operated revolvers. The blowback pulls on the slider and the slider cocks the gun. The bullets however are readied via a spring-load inside of the magazine.
@@tommapar so they don't revolve in any way, making them not revolvers at all.
Funnily enough, using hand cannons (revolvers) in Destiny 2 on a controller will utilise the fact the button input is on a trigger, so it detects you pushing it down, and plays the hammer&barrel animation accordingly, firing when the trigger is far down enough.
A few other fps games do this as well. When I was playing modern warfare 2019 I noticed that when I pulled the controller’s trigger the operator pulled the weapon’s trigger accordingly. It works for all weapons, I don’t know how realistic it is for revolvers though since there’s only one revolver in that game (unless you count warzone). I wouldn’t be surprised if it did pay a lot of attention to the realistic animations because all the weapons are pretty realistic (attention to details wise), the desert eagle even has the ring of fire instead of a standard muzzle flash.
same with vr games
Metal Gear Solid 3 on PlayStation 2 did this. The X button was programmed as a sensitive button (actually, any of the X O Square or Triangle buttons can be should the developer want this). Pressing the trigger slightly would prepare the gun and aim down the sight. Fully pressing it would fire. Releasing half way would return the gun to sidearm. This was a very useful mechanic when preparing for just the right moment for that stealthy shot
Was going to mention this. Garbaj didn't give tribute to this detail that I love about D2.
Maybe he didn't know, being a KbM player, for the most part.
Unfortunately you can't do this on pc
I’ve always liked the longer trigger pull animation. Not just for realism sake, but also because it makes the gun stand out from just normal pistols, it also gives it a distinctly more mechanical feel that pairs well with the damage output they tend to have in the game.
Yeah, I really like the implementation in CSGO. Makes it a more skill based weapon.
Or he could, you know, have 2 revolvers
@@Random-gn6ew Wouldn't be much different than just two pistols...
Having a unique firing mechanism will make a big difference gameplay wise 👍
i imagine it'd be hard to balance it though, in one of the games i play the revolver animation is slightly too long and it's so infuriating to use because the ttk of the other guns almost eliminates the damage bonus a revolver has
It's true that it differentiates it from other pistols, but it making the delay feel long enough that it matters but also making it not frustrating is a difficult balance
In overwatch, honestly Mei's ice gun acts more like a dual action than mccrees
dear god you're right :O
E
@@JifalosJM E
@@teaflavouredcoffee83 E
And as a result is really difficult to aim. Not just for the projectile, either. A lot harder than McCree's revolve, at the very least.
I think Destiny uses the fully animated style for its Handcannons, giving them a very tactile response on a gamepad as you pull the trigger to peak input and cycle it realistically as a result. Felt very fun to use them.
was gonna post this. for all destiny's flaws, bungie did great with the weapons
Plus, if you're playing with a controller, you can pull the trigger like 70% of the way and see the hammer being pulled back but not firing until you pull your controller's trigger all the way. It's a really nice touch.
I think the weirdest part of that, is it doesn't even seem like there is a need for a rotating cylinder, as there is just the single ... round? that gets replaced with most (or all) hand cannons. It still is awesome they did that though.
@@slipshodleaf7466 Its possible the cylinder is only aesthetic, but it could be a heat dissipation for the block, perhaps? Like the Talon from Mass Effect 3.
I always found playing with the trigger and messing with the hammer when I was walking around in-game.
after playing rdr2, i'd honestly say single action feels pretty good, if you want it to be more snappy just shorten the time it takes for them to cock the gun back, but double clicking to prep the next shot feels pretty good in my opinion
I would love to see what developers could do with Playstation 5's adaptive triggers. They could literally give the trigger a little resistance, gradually building up to 80%, then once you hit that threshold you feel it give with a sort of snap and then it fires. Would be dope for immersion.
Some games have this feature
It is dope
Would also be extremely annoying and would likely make people not want to use revolvers.
@@CB-141 then just turn it off 🤦♂️
@@Chaziltasm I...can't. I don't have the means to acquire a PS5.
As long as there's an instant shot sidearm option and the revolver has a fair payout (more damage) in return for the slower fire rate realism is the way to go.
hmmm, a very good point
Yeah, if deagle has instashot and less time before the next bullet, it would have sense if it takes 2/3 shots to kill someone, while if revolver has a strong delay before every bullet, even the first, making it a one-shot kill weapon is imo a good thing to do for making it not OP or useless
@@achille0072 that being said, if you're going for the one shot kill route, do not give the gun an alt fire that instantly fires the gun at the cost of accuracy. This mechanic broke CSGO for a week lmao.
Also, keep in mind that even double action revolvers can be cocked in advance of taking a shot. That way you can ready the shot before taking it, and if you took the time to have it readied it you get rewarded with an instant shot that way
he should make a wristbreaker which is just a snubnose that shoots 50. ammo the recoil is massive and you have a chance to lose health with every shot, but it's an instant kill and can turn the tides of any battle, you sacrifice safety, aiming, ammo availability, and firespeed all to kill anyone you shot and seriously hurt anyone that shot passes through.
This is really only a real issue when using a mouse, because with a controller the revolver can be programmed to go through the whole double action with the real life trigger pull, which is the case in the first Destiny if not the second; if you pull the trigger lightly you can even overtly see the hammer pull back, which is pretty neat in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure Siege, RDR2, and even GTAV all do this too. It's one of my favorite details to see in a game
If you have a mouse with thumb buttons they could make the game give you the option to bind one to the hammer cocking
it's there in destiny 2, which i know because i spent a significant amount of time looking at the hammer go back when I pulled the trigger back partway when i first saw it.
@@clairedonahue8821 as you mentioned, it's definitely there in D2 as well. It's honestly one of my favorite details in the game.
@@deak3726 Well I only play good games, so I wouldn't know about those.
The revolvers and Hunt Showdown are a good example of a character cocking the hammer after every shot as people are suggesting. It also adds a nice mechanic of different revolvers having easier or harder hammers that take longer.
yeah but the problem is mostly with double action ones, and i dont remember well how the animation works in hunt, but being an instant shot i think the cylinder rotates after
So just make all DA revolvers in games SA. 🙃
@@RomaCHEIMS double action revolvers can still be manually cocked
@@notNajimi yes, but bringing that out is pointless in this convo
@@RomaCHEIMSI think the cylinder rotates while the hammer is cocked
Destiny 2 also has some cool revolver (in this case hand cannon) animations, especially on controller. If you pull the trigger down slowly you can see the hammer moving back based on how much you’re pulling down the trigger. Probably the best revolver animation i’ve seen in a game.
I remember hearing a quote from one of the developer of H3VR talking about how difficult the spy's revolver was to make. they said no part of the revolver lines up in a way that makes any mechanical sense.
It wasn't Tf2's VR mode, it was Meat Fortress, a gamemode in Hotdogs, Horseshoes, and Hand grenades (or H3).
His video series/devlogs about how he made Meat Fortress was interesting, would recommend.
MrSpiffy more like MrPossum
@@themastergluesniffer *i Am NoT a PoSsUm!*
I was so confused when you said VR mode before I realized you were talking about H3VR.
the developer. It's just anton as far as I know
You put it best yourself. As a game developer, when adding ANYTHING, it's important to ask yourself: "Does this fit my game?"... If you're making a realistic shooter based in recent years then 100% have realistic everything, but if you want to prioritize giving the player more power then I think it's better to have an instant revolver.
Depends on or you do the delay
"Does it fit my game?" is important, but so is "is it fun?"
I think fanning only works with single action
I prefer realistic and delayed on click/trigger press. It raises the skill floor which can be rewarded via increased stopping power. On top of that, it adds weight to each shot since it isn't as snappy and immediate as firing off a semi round from magazine fed pistols.
well cod mw you can make the gun you want like if you want it to be fast you can or if you want it to be slow but pack a punch you can
2:00 they didn't say screw realism, they modeled it off of a method of operation you're unfamiliar with, specifically the Mateba Model 6 Unica recoil operated semi-automatic revolver.
If that were the case then the hammer would be cocked before and after you fire it.
@@Swifteroos Does that really matter? There still is some realism. The hammer and cylinder can move after the firing pin hits the striker by itself. Not all revolver need to be the same.
@@lepatron69420 Barely any realism. Plus nobody said all revolvers have to be the same
@@lepatron69420 It does matter, hammer fired weapons do not have strikers, the hammer hits the firing pin then the firing pin hit the primer. Striker fired weapons have a spring operated firing pin, meaning there is no hammer.
@@lepatron69420 The firing pin does not hit the "striker" it hits the primer which is the little button looking thing on the back of the cartridge.
the revolver in pubg is a chiappa revolver based on the metebe unica 6, so they actually got it correct, because it is neither single or double action. Meteba style revolvers operate similar to a semi automatic pistol.
the chiappa rhino is actually just a regular double action with a 6 o'clock bore sadly, the Unica 6 had a 6 o'clock bore as well but it essentially had an upper receiver that would recoil and cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder. Which in effect means you get a single action trigger pull on every shot.
Even when you shoot chiappa rhino, that hammerlike thing doesn't acutally move at all. because it's not really a hammer, but a cocking lever for when you fire it in single action.
The revolvers in Destiny 2 have a neat detail when using controller where the hammer animation syncs up directly to the analog trigger pull, you can pull it slightly to prep the hammer and even let go to cancel it
Plus it also has a single action revolver named the last word where the user cocks the hammer with the flat of their hand
Destiny 2 hand cannons have no hammer animations. They only animate the cylinder and the "rounds" which just looks like a weird battery thing.
@@delanodonk5214. The hammer is animated, but only with a controller, you can slightly press the right trigger button and see the hammer move, you can even move it back and forth without shooting anything.
Fun fact this also works with traveler’s chosen and probably a few other sidearms and maybe Dead Man’s Tale
It also works with the aforementioned Last Word which makes no sense but eh, semantics.
I don't remember the exact specifics (it's either "press a key to cock the hammer" or "hold a key to hold the hammer so you can cock it without firing"), but Receiver 2 has realistic mechanics that let you fire revolvers single action for instant response, or double action for convenience.
this actually, cause realistic double action can also manually cock the hammer for an instant shot and lighter trigger pull. If you didn't want to add a specific hammer button though i do remember playing a game once that had you cock the hammer automatically for the first shot when you ADS, possibly rising storm 2 but don't quote me on that.
there's a Receiver 2?
@@garbaj Or at least a very convincing knock-off. It fooled me.
@@garbaj yep th-cam.com/video/g-SgoKBIE24/w-d-xo.html
For anyone not familiar with it, Receiver takes realism to the point of insanity. You don't press a button to reload. You press a button to eject your magazine, then you press buttons to load bullets into it one at a time, then press a button to put it back, then press a button to cock the gun.
You mentioned an attachment system that changes the function of the right mouse button, my idea is that your character fires after a short delay and throws off your aim slightly, but using right click causes the character to manually cock the hammer in single action which removes both the delay and the hand shake due to the much lighter trigger pull.
clever
I think the best option that I haven’t seen yet would be when you aim down sight, the finger pulls the trigger almost up to the firing point, meaning the hammer is pulled back. And then when you fire, the hammer is already back and would be almost instant.
Killing Floor 2 found a perfect workaround for this with its revolvers. You start the animation with the hammer already cocked, so you can have a snappy shot as soon as you press the button, followed by a short recovery animation of you cocking the hammer manually. It's the best of both worlds, in my opinion.
I think this is done in Cyberpunk as well.
Of note though: those are single-action revolvers. They *need* to be cocked before firing.
I was thinking the same thing as well, why nobody is talking about this more?
@@Verbose_Mode iirc you can also do that in double action revolvers. The trigger just feels lighter
@@Verbose_Mode no on a double action revolver, you can do both. Its actually better to pull the hammer mqnually on a double action because it makes the trigger pull much shorter and smoother than if you pull the hammer with the trigger.
The way Hunt: Showdown gets around this problem is interesting. Most revolvers in the game are single-action (and quite satisfying to shoot too - the way it's implemented and animated is a great example of how to make single-action revolvers and single-shot guns feel good), with only a few variants of the Nagant being double-action.
Their solution to the double-action problem was to... not actually animate the hammer, and obscure thag fact with the recoil animation. To be honest, I never noticed that until just now, when I specifically started paying attention to it after watching the video.
Oh yeah I never noticed that either huh. What's weird about that is the Nagant Officer Carbine does have an animation for the hammer.
I was going to suggest this. I don't get why Garbaj quickly abandoned the idea of using single-action when Hunt made the perfect video game single-action revolver that feels powerful and beefy.
You could have a half-way solution where the default position of the hammer is back, so when the trigger is pulled (button is pressed), the hammer slams forward and then resets after the shot
This animation happens on both revolvers in Pavlov VR. In that game, you can choose if you want to fire in full auto, semi auto or burst. This feature doesn’t work on every gun in the game but I think that pressing the button should cock the hammer on the revolvers because it would be cool :)
Autorevolver is the obvious answer.
Another option is to have cocking the hammer be a part of equip animation and subsequent recock after each shot. With probable altfire being "fanning" the revolver with hand on the hammer.
That’s what I thought of too I made a comment like this before seeing yours
@@kryptyk64 same
the logical conclusion to the problem
In the game Day of Infamy he locks back the hammer after each shot.
or make it optional so experienced players btfo novices for not realizing
Interesting thing: In Borderlands 2, the Jakobs brand of revolvers are all single-action revolvers. However, they have a really fast fire rate because the animation shows your character actually fanning/cocking the hammer back automatically. Essentially, the moment the revolver is pulled out, the hammer is already cocked back.
yes bad video game revolvers behave like this. this is like going to mcdonalds and complaining that the meat tastes like cardboard. stop buying garbage copy and paste triple a titles if you want quality.
@@cagneybillingsley2165 wut?
@@cagneybillingsley2165 Huh? What do you have against Borderlands, also the commenter wasn't even complaining, just pointing it out
@@cagneybillingsley2165 mans is mad reactionary for no reason haha
fanning the revolver, great idea
I always wondered why the revolver in modern warfare felt strange to shoot. That’s fantastic
I think the short wait between the input and the bullet actually firing is something that makes a weapon like that handle uniquely and fun to learn/master the timing of.
Destiny has an interesting solution for this when using a controller. When pulling the trigger on the controller lightly, you can actually see the cylinder and hammer of your hand cannon begin to move but the gun will not fire unless you pull the trigger all the way, not unlike a real double action revolver. It was something I noticed around the time of The Taken King's release for Destiny 1 and it was a detail I really appreciated.
I think it's a fantastic option though it wouldn't really work on mouse and keyboard. I'm actually not even sure how Destiny 2 handles this with a mouse. :/
I noticed that when I played d1 back on my ps3/4 and when I played d2 on pc I noticed that they basically just went with the overwatch solution
@@spork8721 It still works in d2 if you use a controller on pc too
This is in a lot of games lol, even GTA
I noticed that back i year 1 after getting Fatebringer from Vault of Glass. I enjoyed messing with the hammer.
So it handles like bows in some games where releasing the button release the arrow
I wonder if a good solution is simply to go for the single action revolver and have the recocking be automatically done after a shot.
I thought this was how most revolvers (and shotguns) worked in games, it was weird that he said single action would have to be cocked manually by the player
I've had a lot of fun in some games, mostly Red Orchestra and Rising Storm, where re-cocking your weapon can be set to manual. Mostly this is with bolt-action guns: click once to fire, click a second time to work the bolt.
It doesn't seem like much, but it lets you CHOOSE whether or not you want to take a second to load another round. Sometimes it's safer to hit the dirt or stab with a bayonet, and chamber a new round when you're in the clear.
It also makes the weapon feel a lot more deliberate in its use, IMO, since you need to consider "fire" and "prepare to fire again" as two different actions even if they're done with the same key.
Games like Receiver take the cake, of course.
I know there are a few games with single action revolvers and they automatically do the thumb cocking animation after every shot
damn was about to comment this thinking i was clever. figuring out reloads would be weird but reloading a revolver is always weird so i guess no change there
I think Fistful of Frags does this for at least some of its revolvers; there’s a lot of them in that though so I’m not entirely sure on the details.
Depends on how you want your revolver to be used. You could make it like a marksman sorta pistol and make it accurate to rl with the delay or just make it a quick 6 round pistol and ignore the realism
another method if implementing the double action revolver is to just have the shot fired instantly but the animation lags 1 frame behind to show the hammer going back for one frame (ofc this would imply perhaps an unrealistic representation of finger strength) but the player wouldn't really notice the difference in normal play. you would still see the hammer going back for a split second.
RDR2 deals with single action revolvers well, when aiming down sights you have to hit the fire button twice once to cock it and once to shoot it same with rifles.
Also, in RDR2 if you fire the double action revolver, Arthur pulls the hammer back when you aim, so the first shot is quick and accurate, but then if you continue to fire each shot is sluggish and inaccurate.
@@brb1994 He does that because it as popular to have DA revolvers in that time to be able to be used as single action, also, so you can use it like a single-action revolver. Would be a cool feature in RDR2 to use it like an SA revolver beyond the first shot.
you can even pause the cocking of the rifle for added effect if you want to, same with revolvers
If i don't remember badly in console the hammer goes back along with the controller's trigger, which is pretty cool and a way to sort this problem out
There's something in fighting games called "negative edge" basically, a negative edge attack won't come out on the button press, but the depression. Maybe having the revolver go through 80% of the trigger pull on click and actually fire on release of the mouse button would be a good idea?
had that same thought, its a good idea imo
@Pud Pete Sort of. See with how the R8 works in CS:GO, you hold down fire, and after a delay it will shoot. But with this idea, you can hold down fire *before* getting into the engagement, and release it when you want to shoot, so if you're prepared then there's no delay, and if you prepare poorly, then there is one.
that would be really good
i think itd be unrealistic to be holding a revolver 80% cocked for an extended period
@@DinosaurSuccess The solution for that would be to have the pistol's shot delayed very slightly while the button is held down while also allowing players to fire more rapidly if they release the button quickly.
I like the style where you have a single action revolver as a part of your game to get around this because you just put a delay after firing that is your character cocking the hammer back and it acts as a way to balance the revolver too cause you can make it do more damage with the caveat of having a slower fire rate from having to cock the hammer along with the lower ammo cap.
i actually like the slow feel of the realism
can help give an extra feel of power to the shot with a buildup, if the animations and audio are done right
its quite funny that the cowboy from overwatch has the unrealistic style because there is a different character with a gun that has the delay after pressing the button before shooting
There's a game in which revolvers do work realistically by having a little delay between clicking and actually shooting but you can press middle mouse to pull back the hammer and have the gun ready the next time you need to shoot.
ok, now that's really unique
Which game?
@@Dat-Mudkip I think it might be receiver 2
@@Dat-Mudkip scp:sl added that too (currently beta only)
Sounds like the brains of a rockstar child
In Destiny 2, the revolver’s hammer animation is linked to the gamepad’s trigger, so, if you hold the gamepad trigger 80% of the way, you’ll see the barrel turn and hammer prime without firing. Feels veeery cool.
Always wondered if anyone else noticed that
Woah, that sounds really interesting. I'm getting jealous of controller players
this is one of the things i loved in destiny 1, if you pull the right trigger a small bit the chamber and hammer both moves at the speed you pull the trigger and then when youve reached the bottom of the trigger the hand cannon fires, so satisfying to mess around with
Another weird thing is that I like your voice.
The informations on the videos is pretty great to learn too so, good job.
They make “Hammerless” Revolvers like the Ruger LCR. If you’re making your own game, consider adding one like that. It’s not truly hammerless, but the hammer is internal so you don’t see the action. It also prevents something from snagging on the hammer in close quarters.
They had a hammerless snubnose in Battlefield Hardline as the base sidearm for the police, I always thought that was pretty cool.
there is also the nagant "automatic revolver", which after a double action first shot, which cocks the hammer on each shot, almost like a DA/SA semiauto.
This was my first thought. Out of sight, out of mind.
@@DARTHNECRION As far as I'm aware the revolvers are always sort of automatic in Battlefield.
@@ccox7198 if you can find me a striker fired revolver, ill give you 100$ :)
(to anyone else reading, there are no striker fired revolvers and this guy is just saying words that he heard somewhere)
The best solution is to have the delay when hipfiring, but to play an animation of cocking the hammer when ADS so the revolver is accurate and responsive when you need it to be.
The hammer could then stay cocked when ADS is released, allowing the player to shoot the next shot from the hip with the same quickness. You'd then have a decision to make about subsequent shots. I'd probably make cocking the hammer after each shot automatic when ADSing, but not when hip-firing, just to add some variety. Or maybe if the player holds the trigger when hip-firing that makes the character hold the trigger and "fan" the hammer, like in westerns.
We be in "No More Room In Hell"
Co ck
the problem with this is that you really want the snappy response time when you’re hipfiring; usually a player hip fires when they either don’t have time to aim or they’re close enough up that the movement speed (since most games have an ADS movement penalty) is better than the accuracy of aiming
@@spaghettiwaffles You can still snap off a shot with a revolver but it will require a longer trigger pull if the hammer hasn't been cocked. Maybe make those shots less accurate? The real problem is that the issues with using a revolver in real life don't translate well to games. IRL, the way one pulls the trigger has a significant effect on the accuracy of shots. So a longer, heavier trigger will make that more difficult, but that can't really be modeled in games. Actually, IRL, the only time you'd be forced to fire a revolver without the hammer cocked is when firing quickly straight out of the holster, or when firing multiple shots quickly. Any other time, if you had your gun out and pointed, you'd probably have the hammer pulled back as well. It really depends on how realistic you want to go. Unless this is going to be a mil-sim with extreme attention to detail, it's probably not worth getting overly complicated with it.
There’s something so juicy about getting a kill with a nice realistic shot from a revolver
i like the delay, it makes the gun more unique and gives players a risk/reward option when choosing a handcannon
Tarkov has a very interesting take on it's revolving shotgun MTs-255-12. It offers you a choice between two "firing modes", one is a single fire where your character re-cocks the hammer after every shot and the other is a standard double action. The double action is faster but it has a delay making it better at the chaotic close range fights while single fire is slower but more precise as it fires precisely when you pull the trigger making it better for use with slugs on mid to long range.
tarkov is king
You can also switch to single action to pull the hammer back, and then switch to double with the hammer still pulled. That combined with just how many animations they packed into letting you load/unload every cylinder individually makes it feel amazing to use. I can't wait for them to add normal revolvers.
that's pretty much how it is IRL. You can rapid fire a double action without needing to cock if shit gets hairy. Or you can cock it back before placing your finger on the trigger for a nice, clean easy break on the trigger ratehr than having to put extra effort in your finger squeeze to move the hammer and cylinder
This may be the point that sells me on buying this game. I just left a comment suggesting this exact thing. Controller players get that "real feel" with no shot cooldown, KBM players get an instant bullet with a longer cooldown. Perfect balance.
Rising Storm 2: Vietnam has had this mechanic with their revolver for years, it's double action usually, but you can press a button to cock the hammer and fire a shot in single action.
What about just having single-action revolvers, then adding the hammer-cocking animation to the _end_ of the firing cycle? That would solve the "sluggishness" issue a bit.
The reload is what gets you on a single action revolver, they usually use a loading gate and you have to manually eject and load each chamber individually. The exception is break-top revolvers, like the s&w model 3, where the frame split and you could access all the entire cylinder at once.
thats what hunt showdown does iirc
@@Compgeek86 a sluggish reload's not unfamiliar at least; we've been dealing with slow-reloading pump actions just fine. If the weapon can hit hard and fast, you'll excuse needing to hide for a few seconds to get a full reload.
@@Logan-xo9uc I'm not really a fan of PVP, but I'll give that game a go when it's on sale.
I think both would be great. Pick your poison type thing.
Want to shoot as soon as you pull the trigger, get a single action, but pay on a delay on the next shot.
Double action gives you faster loading of the next round, but got to pay on the delay of pulling the trigger all the way.
May be cool to go around with a half pulled trigger on a double action to get that fast first shot.
I like to imagine a fun mechanic where holding down the fire button cocks the hammer back like it's supposed to, but only releases when the fire button is released.
Basic charge attack with mild realism in mind.
The best way to think about it is that having that trigger delay not only gives you realism but also an interesting factor for players to think about, and another way for you to balance the gun.
Fallout New Vegas did it right, the character always cocks the hammer back when equipping it and after every shot, even if it's a double action model, basically treating every revolver like it's a single action after every shot so there's no delay
For your game you could have the character use double action for any kind of rapid fire and normal single action when ready for action
Fallout 4 does that as well!
I could have sworn the 44 revolver in fallout 3 and new Vegas was double action and it's animation didn't bother with the hammer. It's been a while since I've played it, though. 😅👍🏻
@@optiTHOMAS yeah they don't bother with the hammer
Bethesda and obsidian payed attention, shame to interplay, they didn't even making revolver cocker action
Easily the best solution. It's technically accurate and has no gameplay roadblocks. Win win.
Red Dead 2 have players manually cock the hammer for single action. Personally, I like it, for making the guns feels tactile. Especially in first person view.
Why not use double click for cocking and shooting? With a small delay between the clicks.
As much as that was an interesting idea ,The revolvers in that game didn't feel very good in my opinion. The reload speed is cracked and I feel like it stripped alot of the fun out of what could have been a very fun gameplay designed around being able to carry four very different firearms and managing the time needed to reload them and knowing when to use them in conjunction with other throwable items instead of just reloading immediately.
@@Blazberry_Yaint that's true. They sped up reloading animations for most of the guns. I think that's an issue with RDR 2 in general. An attempt to simulate realism but not fully commiting.
not a major problem, but it does feels off when shit happens
@@manbat4582 they wouldn't even needed to make the revolver reloads unbearably slow. Arthur is a skilled gunfighter and so in a dozen seconds he'd likely be able to unload every chamber of a single action revolver and then reload them: th-cam.com/video/yb4x-ncQ8Ic/w-d-xo.html
Also if you really wanna be realistic Arthur would carry 5 instead of 6 to avoid the risk of an accidental discharge.
I prefer having it the rdr2 way because being able to shoot the weapon the second you click is important to the overall feel of the gameplay. Having to click a second time to cock the hammer on a revolver gives me that confirmation that im ready to fire again which maintains the fun gameplay and realism.
Maybe you should do both, make two revolvers, one with snappy firing but it's not as powerful as the more realistic revolver which has a short delay to firing making it kind of awkward to fire but make it more powerful.
Ultrakill did that
maybe someone has done this already, but I just thought of it, it would be cool for a game to let you choose whether to cock the hammer with mouse2 for single action or use a double action trigger pull, the reward for DA being it shoots slightly faster than cocking for SA between shots and you would have to decock the hammer or shoot to switch weapons
in SCP: SL, the double action revolver does make you wait for the hammer to be cocked which means shooting takes longer.
You also long left click to fire. Just tapping left click cycles a round.
SCP: Sister Location
@@PauperoftheFishies Five Nights at Freddys: Secret Laboratory
@@friendlyfire2615 That actually sounds like a real game
aha, I KNEW I WOULD FIND A COMMENT WITH THE SCP SL REVOLVER(insert d bois vs nerds with revolver)
Call of Juarez can be a good example.
The most interesting case in my opinion is that of the revolvers in Destiny, which function in the instantaneous way when using mouse and keyboard, but go through the hammer pulling animation when using a controller, since controllers have built-in sensors that can detect when the trigger is partially pulled.
In Destiny 2, if you play with a controller, the cylinder and hammer move as you further depress the trigger until it is fully pressed at which time it fires. This is fun because you can wiggle the hammer and rotate the cylinder back and forth.
I know it seems strange, but the "delay" is more or less not a thing when firing a real revolver quickly as you just kind of yank on the trigger. I mean yes there is some time to pull the trigger, but functionally it is more or less instant. If you want the animation and still feel snappy just play the animation on top of the gun going off. In real time it would only be maybe a couple of frames and not very satisfying when not filmed in high speed.
Pull the trigger, squeeze the trigger, gently push the trigger back.
Do NOT “yank” the trigger.
@@mr.potato7075 because you said that I am going to yank the trigger every time.
@@thereareantsbehindyoureyes7529 That’s fine. I’m giving out free advice but if you want to do the opposite, nobody’s stopping you. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
@@mr.potato7075 For precision shooting, yes you just gently ease into it until it breaks. When you are shooting double action quickly you just make it go. Maybe "yank" was a bit of an exaggeration, but it is closer to the truth than gently pushing... probably pull quickly is the most accurate description.
@@mr.potato7075 Although it is frequently taught that way, unless you are shooting competition bullseye or long distance, no one actually does it that way. If you study USPSA or IDPA shooting, you'll see that their trigger pulls are anything but gentle. There are USPSA grandmasters who use and teach a trigger "slapping" technique. The whole "gentle trigger squeeze" thing is good advice for beginners but it doesn't necessary apply in practical applications.
Take a look at Hunt: Showdown's single action revolvers. Every time you fire, you pull back the hammer automatically, then it's ready to fire immediately
Here it is the comment I was looking for
I feel like having more realistic animations for revolvers (both in firing and reloading) would be perfect for a horror game as it add to the sense of vulnerability to the player. I'm honestly surprised there aren't many if any devs implementing it in more often in horror games.
You could really implement the cocking action by the duration of fire button is hold down. If it is taped the revolver is cocked manually, if it is held (or already cocked) you are firing.
You could tackle this a few realistic ways. One: Like they do in CoD, firing with a delay
Two: Having an animation cocking the hammer when drawing the revolver and after every shot, reducing the fire rate
Three: Two buttons, one for cocking and one for firing. The cocking button cocks the hammer and the firebutton either shoots instantly when the gun is already cocked or with a delay when the gun is not.
I personally think the last one is the most fun as it allows for more control and gameplay variety.
Personally I would like to see a system like No More Room in Hell, where hip firing with the revolver is double action with noticeable delay but faster follow-up shots, while aiming down the sights would cause the player to pull back the hammer before adsing, making shots almost instant but general fire rate being slower as the character has to pull back the hammer before every shot.
@@Spicysparrow1 it also makes a lot of sense as the main argument for shooting in single action is to make more accurate shots as the delay and trigger force are lower.
@@Spicysparrow1 Hm, so more like a combination if One and Two? Sounds also pretty amazing. I'd say the most versatike would be implementing all three and letting the players decide how they want revolvers to do.
@@someonestolemyname Shooting single action from the hip mitght also be desirable when anticipating an encounter around the corner where aiming down sights might be undesirable due to the smaller FoV but you still don't want to deal with the delay of double action shooting. So I'd say the two button solution might be even better in this case.
Or you could just cock with the fire button before firing
i just love these videos
glad you like em!
Who doesn't
Yeah it’s pretty short and easy to understand cause people keep making 10 min long vids which is just clickbait and have no clear explanation because they are meant to show off their gameplay
U american? 😂
@@hitboii0065 shut up
There is the option of animating the revolver as an automatic one, like the Chiappa Rhino. It uses the kinetic energy to automatically cock the hammer after every shot. The Sheriff in Valorant is an automatic revolver, and thus, is realistic in that sense.
In some console games for example in Destiny 2 ps/xbox version the hammer or the revolver moves with the controller trigger since the trigger is analog. The hammer moves back more the deeper the trigger is pressed and until the controller trigger travels a certain distance just then the hammer springs back firing the bullet. That means you can do cool things with it such as pressing the trigger button halfway then cancelling it, which will make the hammer moves back to neutral
Another option is to have a revolver that has an internal hammer. They exist in the real world like a Luger LCR or S&W J-Frame. Only animation needed would be the rotating cylinder which would allow for a lot quicker and snappier animation.
Revolvers with an internal hammer still function the exact same way. Only difference is you don't see it.
@@l4d2160 yeah that’s exactly my point that it’s less to animate
Or like the Unica 6 that is a self-cocking, semi auto revolver.
think you mean Ruger
problem is that it won't look like a revolver to most people
SCP: Secret Laboratory has a very realistic revolver:
There is a delay when shooting, but you can also manually cock the revolver beforehand to get rid of the delay
yeah
Finally another scp sl player
for a single action revolver you could add the cocking of the hammer to the end of the firing animation, so to the players end firing is one smooth action, click, fire, then cocking for the next shot
My personal preferred version is in synthetik 2: it's a top down roguelike shooter. The revolver you can randomly find in that game works a bit weirdly:
You need to hold the firing button for a very short but still noticeable time similarly to overcoming the resistance on the last bit of a double action trigger. This means that you need to adjust a bit, but it also makes it very satisfying.
I thought the single action revolver and lever actions in red dead 2 were really satisfying and fun to use. Having the player do one movement to cock the hammer and another to actually fire.
It has its own charm, but in a faster paced game the gun would be pretty unviable, and i really REALLY hate when revolvers are unviable.
They're my fav weapon in games and I love usin em in cod and stuff
Well, Ultrakill makes the first action automatic
@@act2wasstronger182 It'd be pretty easy to add recocking the hammer to the recoil animation so it's ready to shoot again by the time you get your sights back.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor that's definitely possible..
@@act2wasstronger182 Revolvers are supposed to take longer to operate, even in fast paced games. They're balanced for high immediate damage instead of DPS like most handguns.
You can have a snappy revolver that is accurate. Its called a semi-auto revolver. A perfect example of this is the Webly Fosbury revolver, which I depicted in BF1 as the Auto Revover. It essentially works like a semi auto pistol such as the 1911. The recoil from firing a round cocks the hammer and spins the cylinder, effectively making it a single action revolver with no need to manually cock the hammer.
don't forget the Mateba, the only gas operated revolver as far as I know
Jerry miculek shot 5 rounds in .58 seconds in a 2" group with a revolver. I think that that alone proves that revolvers are quick and accurate to shoot.
@@moonasha he actually has the Mateba in the video but didn't identify it. It's at 2:20, the PUBG clip. The animation is actually correct with this one.
@@RJBond121 right? The idea that "revolvers are slow" is an overplayed falsehood perpetuated by people who don't shoot at all or can't shoot well and think there lack of skill is what should be applied to, what should be, elite gun fighters depicted in games. I've out shot an entire match of automatic pistols and came in first with a revolver in IDPA. Revolvers should Ballance with recoil first, reload speed second, and rate of fire third not the usual rate of fire, then reload, then recoil. Don't get me started on junk revolver reloads or crappy damage models poorly expressing ballistics in game either.
The Webly Fosbury is a fascinating revolver. It also appears in Pathologic 2 as one of the few firearms in that game.
I think one of my favorite examples of the realism(not counting reloads) is the revolvers in GTA V. If you're on console, when you slowly pull the trigger the hammer moves back and the cylinder moves like the real thing(on the double action revolver) and not only that, but on the heavy revolver after each shot your character cocks the hammer back, and when the cock it back the cylinder moves. I'm very surprised you didn't mention anything from GTA V. It may be a chaos simulator but some of the details are really cool.
Slow revolvers can feel like they pack more of punch if done right, so it can feel more satisfying to shoot
Don't know if this has been suggested, but you could treat the revolver like a single action where the first action is handled automatically upon drawing/after firing, so the delay in firing upon hitting the trigger/button is strictly the duration of the hammer striking
Thats pretty much how it would work in real life, the first thing you would do upon drawing your weapon/ firing it is cock it so you have a nice crisp single action trigger pull waiting for you
The solution would be to use single action, and include the cocking as a tail for the firing animation, so you fire, and the character automatically cocks the hammer, ready to go. Much like how pump action shotguns are automatically pumped after firing, and not adding a delay before firing.
Yep, that's exactly what Hunt Showdown does. A game that all the sidearms but 3 are revolvers, most of which are single actions
Even in destiny 2 the hand cannons have an animation for the hammers all are double action it’s pretty cool to see
My game is extremely weapon centeric so i try to make sure that the mechanics of each different type have some kind of game play impact, so what I've done is have single action revolvers cock the hammer after firing which delays the next shot while double action revolvers have a shorter delay that happens before you shoot with triple action revolvers allowing you to switch between the two.
It really makes them feel different from one another in a way that's both realistic and fun.
One note: your example for Pubg (or at least when you said pubg) was a Chiappa Rhino. The "Hammer" on the Rhino isn't actually a hammer at all. It's simply a cocking device to indicate whether or not the firearm is in single or double action. The firing mechanism of the Rhino is completely enclosed within the gun. Not 100% certain on the mechanics of how it looks when fired, but seeing as the Rhino is built extremely different compared to other revolvers, I would imagine that it's not easily comparable to them.
Just a fun fact and note. Otherwise, great video as usual!!
What you're saying is
Rhino is just built different
@@HeavySandvichGuy1 Y'know, I spent quite about of time on that comment three months ago. And you've just rendered all of that time wasted with this perfect summation of what I said.
You are exactly right: The Rhino is just
BUILT DIFFERENT
@@warriorinagarden7573 for what its worth, as a fan of the rhino, i read your comment and appreciate people like you who take the time to correct and educate others, politely too!
I own a Chiappa Rhino 60DS (the exact same model as in PUBG). There’s a little red piece of plastic that pops up to the left of the external hammer when it is cocked in single action, kind of like a safety indicator. The external hammer’s only purpose is to cock the internal hammer. It doesn’t move at all when firing in double action. The only thing that would move on the exterior would be that little red piece of plastic as you pull the trigger back.
The cocking lever on the outside of the Rhino shouldn't move unless it is manually pulled back, even when fired in double-action, and it should automatically return to its original starting position after the internal hammer is cocked by pulling the external cocking lever.
Unfortunately, PUBG is far from the only game to get this wrong. Killing Floor 2 also gets this wrong because the Rhino basically reuses the animations for the S&W Model 500, since it was around that point that Saber Interactive took over from Tripwire for updating the game, and they don't have as much detail or realism in their DLC content.
Coming to it late: I think slow and deliberate revolvers have to feel more powerful. They need to feel like they are a risk-reward. You need to carefully time your shot, but it will be an insta-kill sort of thing, like the slot a a sniper rifle usually fills, but maybe a little less powerful and a little less certain death
the CSgo revolver was awesome, did a bunch of damage to compensate for the delay when firing and it's pretty accurate when you're not running around. Sadly got nerfed because people don't think they should be getting oneshot by a revolver headshot (??)
@@kuelhomaster R8 got nerfed because it was 1 shot kill to the body.
@@kuelhomaster it was a handgun awp, literally. it was ultra precise and it killed 1 shot to the body no matter what, that's why it got nerfed
I was honestly blown away when I first figured out that with the webly in Vanguard you could cock the hammer with the adaptive trigger settings
This is mostly an issue for digital inputs. If your input is an analog trigger, then it could track the percentage that the trigger is pulled, cocking the hammer back, and only firing once it's been fully pulled.
I love how ammo is surprisingly infinite in fps games, like how you can shoot 1 bullet and your character will just unload and drop all the bullets to the ground and reload with an entirely new clip.
That's the standard, but of course some games work differently and have you replace entire magazines at a time.
Insurgency lets you choose whether you discard a magazine for a slightly faster reload, or keep it to use the remaining ammo later.
Games like Receiver and Hideous Destructor not only track magazines, but let you carry loose rounds separately and load those into empty magazines later. HD has a fun mechanic with its causeless ammunition, where you can actually ignite the rounds if you force them into a magazine too fast!
The Darkness has you "reload" pistols by throwing them away and grabbing a new one from under your edgy 90s trench coat, so you obviously lose any ammo left in the magazine. The assault rifle works similarly, you toss the magazine out and pop in a fresh one. Amusingly enough, the shotgun uses the same "discard the magazine when you reload" mechanic, even though it's a pump-action with an internal magazine and you load the shells one at a time...
Cry of Fear has a system where if you reload, all ammo in the current mag is wasted and isn’t returned to the stockpile. It’s definetly realistic and considering that it’s a survival horror game and ammo is already super scarce it’s terrifying when you realize that you will need to either waste 4 bullets to have a full mag or be unable to defend yourself if there are more than 3 enemies around the corner.
I always applauded Red Dead Redemption 2 for getting this accurate. I had so much fun using the revolvers in that game, and even the single action ones were a lot of fun to learn and shoot.
For the realistic side of the revolver it can be made when all the bullets are shot to play clicking sound of if you don't rely on hud and auto reloading features
Destiny's hand-cannon revolvers were some of my favorites because if you're playing using a controller, you can feather the trigger and it'll start to rotate the cylinder and pull the hammer back like on a real double-action. Very neat little detail.
I don’t know how many games do this but there’s a neat detail in Destiny where with the revolvers, and playing on controller, if you gently squeeze the trigger button it will actually slowly move the hammer with it, just like you’re actually squeezing back the trigger on a double action
I noticed that too a while back. Funny considering Destiny is not a game with much gun realism, but they still thought to do that. I guess they just really wanted the hand cannons at least to be as cool as possible.
@@Freelix2000 Hahah, right. I was just about to say that Hand Cannons were probably a studio favorite.
I would do this way:
When you're holding the revolver in your hands the character does the animation for holding the trigger (like 80% of it) and the hammer gets cocked. When you press the fire button (usually LMB) the player pull the 20% left of the trigger, releasing the hammer and firing the revolver.
Horrible trigger discipline irl, but yeah, could work in a game
@@azbyn692 Well, trigger discipline isn't respected in most games anyway haha
It made the game even more unrealistic. Since if you jump or run it's hard to hold the gun steady and not shoot randomly
@@Howthetoastcrumbled True, even tho it's hard, not impossible
this comment gives me anxiety
I remember playing destiny 2 and I used a hand Cannon(revolver) and when I slightly pulled my trigger it slightly moved the hammer.
From the title I thought it was going to be about how the revolver usually does as much damage as a rifle since that is why you usually put up with revolvers instead of something else, and I never really noticed it in games since I usually look at enemies instead of the gun anyways.
Metal gear solid 3 had single action army in it where snake would pull the hammer back in place automatically after drawing it and shooting it. That feels like the way to go with revolvers since it's snappy and realistically accurate.
1:23 SCP:Secret laboratory does this mechanic in their newest update, it’s really cool (although as you said it sometimes isn’t that fun). The reason why they do this is so you fire the gun instantly without a small delay for the hammer animation.
There's a button to manually cock the hammer so the next shot wont have delay
so you have to hold the firing button to shoot one shot right?
this is what makes me excited about new weapons in escape from tarkov, their adding a revolver soon and I'm excited about what course of action they're taking
I'm working on something right now where a revolver is your starting weapon, and as someone that prefers responsiveness but is also a weapons enthusiast that would hate to butcher a weapon's actual functionality I took a sort of midground. There's an extremely short 2 tic delay (running at GZDoom's 35 tics per second) between when fire is pressed and when the shot goes off allowing for accurate animation of the weapon's function, however brief it is, and a responsive feel.
the delay can be an interesting gameplay consideration, and i personally find the unrealistic animations ruin my immersion a bit, but that's probably just because i know too much about guns.
I'd say, it's more important for it to be fun than realistic, and by that logic, instant shooting revolvers are more fun.
realistic is good, but fun is better
Hmm, I think that distinction is entirely arbitrary. Mechanics don't fall on a 2d line of fun vs realistic. And mind you I understand your argument is to weigh more towards fun things than realistic things, but I would say that having a delay in the firing animation of a pistol doesn't make it less fun at all, it could easily land in "fun and realistic" depending on the context of how the weapon is being used.
I think delayed revolvers could be just as fun as instant ones if they're done right
interesting for sure, I only recently dicovered in Destiny 2 that when playing on mouse the shot is instant and there is reduced animation for revolvers, and with a quick trigger pull on a controller the same, but a deliberate slow pull or half pull on a revolver in D2 gives a very nice animation of the hammer going back and the cylinder cycling.
It’s also worth noting the interesting way Borderlands does revolvers. Most revolvers that don’t have some legendary modifier are old-fashioned single action, but your character keeps their off hand hovering on the hammer as you shoot to instantly cock it resulting in instantaneous shooting.
This would actually make weapon balancing more interesting. The regular pistol and the "hand cannon" archetype are common in shooters, but they both generally fire when you press the button. There's usually not much functional difference between the two handguns, aside from fire rates and damage, which are two categories that can still have differences within a single class of weapons.
If I wanted to make a game with faster, weaker, easier to use pistols and bigger, stronger, harder to use revolvers, the slight delay would make using the two classes of weapons actually feel different.
I feel like it could be handled mostly like a single-action such that if your character has a moment, they'll set the hammer - or if the player just needs to spam shots, they can. It's really how you'd use a SA/DA revolver.
Yeah, the additional force needed for a double-action also means you might be less accurate. Having the first shot be single-action means it is quick and accurate.
The third option is to delay the time between shots slightly having an animation of the character resetting the hammer back after firing
in destiny 2 when you use game pad hammer reacts to your pull on trigger but only if you do it slow enought