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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2024
- While the complexity of Yu-Gi-Oh is well documented, one thing that goes under the radar is the wacky language we use to duel. Garnet, Mill, Spin, RotA. It feels like talking in a completely different language. But for a game with a TCG presence in the west, OCG presence in the East, and a blossoming digital presence with Master Duel, maybe we should take a step back and look at the efficacy of these terms.
![[#SHORTS CLIP] ครูอึ้ง กรรมการอึ้ง ฮ่าๆ l ซานิเบาได้เบา l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qeBTuMJs4t0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's funny how mill is part of this because that's not even our fault. It was a carry over from Magic because a lot of early Yugioh players came off of Magic and brought over their lingo. "Tutor", "Bounce", "Spin", "Scoop", and a whole host of other terms are just imports. It's practically common gaming parlance at this point, and it makes inter-system communication much smoother as well, so I don't see it changing any time soon.
I don't even see anything wrong with it, either.
We don't use "Tutor", though; that's what "ROTA" is for.
"Garnet" is strictly one of ours, tho
@@sidechannel5510 before it's tutor but once we hit Edison it change into rota
@@sidechannel5510 I used to hear tutor a lot more for cards that replace themselves after destruction. Now I think Sangan/Recruiter is more common (althought recruiter isn't used much either except for past formats).
Players when cards don't have keywords: They should add keywords. Players when other people use keywords: I don't understand what you mean.
Fun fact about towers, the OCG print of Apoqliphort Towers was Apoqliphort Killer, but for obvious reasons they couldn't just name it killer in the TCG so we were needed of a other name that is more friendly than what was in the OCG.
it would be so metal to call unaffected cards Killers
makes me wonder if OCG calls ultimate falcon a Killer as slang
Was it released in SEPTEMBER??
@@Kerim9991"Blackwings just received a new killer boss monster"
Anyone have an dimension traveling device? I need to go live in the dimension where we call towers Kiras.
Catch-22 where either you explain every word of every card or you leave out some obscure asterix effect which might affect the game state. The fact that most players do use fan made keywords & terms, tells me that people want abriviated information so we can get on with our game. People want a streamlined experience.
In tournaments though, it's your own responsibility to read cards. Sure, you can just ask the opponent to explain, but unless they maliciously misrepresent the game state, it's on you if there's an extra line of text that wasn't part of their explanation.
@@RyanAtlus I think that is fair. The alternative will lead to some horrible sharking where not mentioning some secret effect which doesn't matter gets people DQ'd.
its common gaming instinct to keyword stuff sentences are only good for new players to get the understanding.
@@randomprotag9329 The thing is, with Yugioh allowing players to pick up any obscure card printed while Bush was in office and put it in their deck. In such case, having the full effect on the card is handy for anyone who wasn't around back then. I'd rather read an 8-word phrase explaining what "flooping" means than having to get out my phone and look it up.
speed reading is a shockingly easy skill to learn
If they just made keywords a part of the next PSCT update we wouldn't have an issue.
And how will they implement this for every card?
@@strangevol5264Rewrite them like they rewrote cards the first time?
@@strangevol5264 The same way they implemented PSCT? New cards and reprints get new text. Old cards can stay as is. When there's conflict, refer to the card database or the newest print.
the nice thing is you can freely pick and choose what to use. I like "bouncing" for example because it makes sense. however I don't like "spin" because it makes no sense to me. so I just say "shuffle back" and everyone will still understand what I mean.
@@kenneth-ik8sd oh ok. I still prefer "put on your deck" in that case. Spinning sounds like throwing the card like a shuriken😅
2:58 AINT no way you call CALL OF DUTY out on this, while MASTER DUEL, a game about YUGIOH WHICH YOUR ENTIRE CHANNEL IS ABOUT, HAS "CP" POINTS
No none of that, shorthand and slang are great actually and lets take your example here.
At 0:21 you show Tearlaments Kitkallos and a description of it's effects in slang and I just don't see how that's a bad thing.
Sure it leaves out that it can send a card from deck to grave and that it needs to send a monster (mostly itself) to the grave to special a monster, but what it does do is explain what the card does in most cases in just a few words which is pretty useful when trying to understand what a card does within the deck.
I also like terms like bouncing, spinning, spell speed 4 and even the f-word fizzle. The point is not to explain exactly what a card or interaction does, but the concept behind it. If you want to know what happens exactly read the cards and know or look up the rulings.
Also I do want to point out that monsters that search monsters are called Stratos not ROTAs.
I somewhat agree with the abbreviations because the amount of cards and archetypes is simply beyond the point where they're reliable other than with staples that've been around forever like ROTA, but the rest not so much. I see where it's coming from, especially with how sometimes they aren't even entirely accurate with how they apply it such as with "towers" cards, but it is just shorthand that makes it easier to get the gist of what something is/ does. It's not meant to be a comprehensive explanation because at that point it's just reading the card, which is a slightly longer process that the terms like bounce or "it's a stratos" are being used to skip over.
Most of the "it's [this]" are using a relatively well known card that is/ was meta relevant as the comparison because those are generally well known where the card being played clearly isn't known to the person asking. It's jargon that adds to the initial learning curve sure but jargon is used because it is helpful and eases learning new/ unfamiliar cards once you understand it.
This is just kind of a silly complaint though? This is a way to simplify the bloatedness of the card game. If you're making mistakes because you got the "cliffnotes" instead of actually reading the card that's literally just a skill issue? If I'm playing against you and you ask what one of my cards do then you can either read the entire thing or trust me to give you the cliffnotes. If you aren't able to fully grasp what a card does with the cliffnotes then simply read it? Like this is such a silly complaint lol
Towers is a fine term because in language sometimes you are trying to convey the feeling rather than literal information, and the feeling is a big asshole that is hard to out, same as garnet, a card you don't want to draw because it's going to be a dead card in hand
The lingo is meant for people who are already kinda familiar with either card games or Yugioh specifically. A lot of it is very intuitive as well, you don't need to really explain what a "hand trap" is, the term already implies that it's some effect, usually form of disruption, that can be activated from your hand during the opponent's turn. To say, "It's a quick effect that activates in the hand and discards itself for cost" is more precise but for most instances is largely unnecessary (and technically by that precise definition it wouldn't include cards like Imperm or Effect Veiler even though everyone would agree they're hand traps, just ones that have a slightly different type of activation nuance that rarely ever comes up but might sometimes).
The acronym thing is probably just a Twitter problem, there really isn't much issue with typing out a clear name in most avenues. Or you could just be talking about something and the implied context is pretty clear, if you talked about the current meta and you said "RACE" it's obvious that you're talking about Rescue-ACE.
I feel like there needs to be a distinction between two types of terms :
1. The one who were inherited from other card games and describe the mechanic in general : Spin, Bounce, Revive, Search...People are forced to use these terms because of Konami's refusal to adopt the keywords. i think those terms are fine, as most people can kinda get the meaning behind them even without much prior knowledge.
2. The "card archetypes" like you called them. Not only they are not always accurate but also they can be relaly confusing for new players. I roll my eyes whenever I hear a streamer say they are going to "foolish" a card. In a YCS feature I heard someone say they are going to declare the effect of Exosister Asophiel to "dweller" their opponent. It can get so silly, and it's too bad most content creators use this lingo.
Tbf, there is a good amount of "foolish" cards that send from deck or extra deck to grave.
True, but it's mostly "burial" cards that are responsible for such effects. And saying that one "buries" a card makes way more sense.
"the link-1 that searches the field spell" is also a term 🗿
Mill, Rota, Dump, Bounce, floating, garnet, tower, PoG, etc.
We meed them but sometimes no
Every game has jargon, it's an inevitability
Others: ROTA
Me: Searcher
I am basic
I mean i truly dont think the problem of the new player experience is these "fanmade keywords" there arent that many and can be explained easily if necessary. Sure not all towers monster are identical but towers is really used for just a hard to out card because its easier call these subgroups of cards some name
I picked up the game as of late and my god, was it rough to make sense of all these abbreviations. Good luck making sense of things like 'TCBOO' in combo/deck explanations, videos or guides when starting out. 🙃
There Can Be Only One. That said it's somewhat counterintuitive without context or familiarity with it.
I am thankful that you showed the hidden city as an example for reinforcement of the army type of cards. I love subterror.
2:21 that's kinda made up, people kinda just stop using abreviations when a deck is not relevant anymore (barring some iconic stuff like salad, Cydra, but notice how these are words not initials), and also if they for some reason ARE referring to six sam as ss, and you know the new cards you probably can put it together, and if you didn't see the new cards then they'll be like "oh it's called "shien 3... again" and it does x"
3:28 this last point a bit silly, comparations are for ease of communication outside of the duel, during a duel you read the cards like literally players in every tier do
JESSE, THATS THE IMPERM COLUMN NOOOO
Thumbnail:
Gem-Knights defining card
Who came up with Spin, a racing fan?!
Mill is from MtG
I don't think I've ever heard anybody complain about these issues and I don't even think there's a reason to. You're telling me the game is more complicated because more advanced players like to say "spin" rather than "target a card in the graveyard: shuffle it into the deck"? Gimme a break.
Also, some of these are just plain wrong. Nobody calls Sky Striker, Silent Swordsman, or Skull Servant SS. Nobody even says SS in a duel to refer to special summoning. They just say it how it is. I don't think I've even heard anybody called Imperm "just another Veiler". They usually just call it Imperm. It's called the "Imperm column" for a reason, not the "Veiler column".
If a new player doesn't know what the hell "spin" or "bounce" or "search" or "mill" means, they should just ask or look it up lol, there's no shame in that. They get the point across, and when you start playing the game for a long time, you realize that you just don't need to say "this card targets a card on the field and puts it in face-down defense position" when you can just say "book" and achieve the same result. There's nobody even stopping you from saying it how it is either, it's just slang at this point.
You're right about how not everything needs to be keyworded, and sometimes they can be blown out of proportion, but this vid, at least to ME, came across as "wanting to make the game less complicated while also not wanting to simplify it" all at the same time. It's borderline hypocritical, and I can't be the only one, right?
The lingo is necessary, especially for new players.
Thanks my entire Village just got eradicated so I really needed some entertainment
Like 👍🏻
Yo, that's exactly the plot of Yugioh's last season.
I can understand "bounce" because I played PVZ Heroes.
Guys, how to get that duel field in the back ground at the beginning of the video?
Has Yu-Gi-Oh heard of (brackets) its very good to provide context
Vanguard uses [brackets for cost]
Flamvell Uruquizas
If this card attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict piercing battle damage.
Flamvell Uruquizas
Piercing.
1. This is still better than using Keywords (What the card does is actually written on the card, rather than How magic does it where some cards have one word to describe a literal paragraph of rules text)
2. This is better than symbols because when you use unique symbols people have to learn what they represent, rather than using standard language.
the problem with symbol isn't because you have to learn it (since you're playing yugioh, of all games), but because some terms can have specific difference even in the same categotry.
For example, we can agree Arrival Cyberse, Purrely Noir, and Final Sigmachad are "tower" monster, but Arrival Cyberse has total immunity to card effects, while Noir is immune to only activated effect and Final Sigmachad can only be affected by "Mathmech" card effec. Slapping "unaffected by card effect" symbol on each of them is not appropriate.
@@MVAS-mp9oo That is the main reason why I dislike symbols (and keywords) in YGO, despite really liking them in other games. What we thought was a specific mechanic common enough to make a symbol for it, is not actually that specific, just like your example.
Imagine a new player trying to learn that there are four different symbols for being unaffected by a card effect, maybe five for banished effects, and other "same" mechanics that actually have different effects.
its actually worse. magic defines its keywords offically, so players have reliable resources to know what it means and players don't need to read a full sentence compared to a word which has an standard meaning. new yugioh players hear a word with no standard meaning and then have to read a sentence to confirm the specifics where in magic the specifics are defined in a single word instead a full senetence.
@@aciesara5444 that has a simple solution [uneffected]: X where X is what its not effected by for example sigma, [uneffected]: non mathmech card effects
@@randomprotag9329 All that does is alter the syntax of the PSCT but doesn't solve the issue it's trying to solve and if anything just makes the text more clunky by making it "some cards say '[unaffected] card effects' and some say 'unaffected by card effects', but that means the same thing don't worry about it".
It also doesn't really work with PSCT because a colon has a specific purpose in the PSCT (it clarifies activation conditions and marks if an effect starts a chain).
Consider the difference in a monster like Psychic End Punisher, a rather simple monster.
"While your LP are lower than your opponent's, this Synchro Summoned card is unaffected by your opponent's activated effects."
Condition 1 (lower LP) and 2 (Psychic End Punisher was Synchro Summoned) are clear and presented in a relevant order and then the protection is shown concisely. It's like a coding language. "If (your LP < your opponent's LP) and (this card = Synchro Summoned) apply {continuous effect}". If neither of the conditions are met you can disregard the effect.
That proposed solution would make this effect something like...
"[Unaffected]: your opponent's activated card effects, while your LP are lower than your opponent's and this card was Synchro Summoned."
It's actually longer and presents the information in a sloppy way. It's not something that is necessarily worse in this instance but the changing of the information is not as effective at delivering the info. To use the coding language, it's more like an "apply {continuous effect} while (your LP < your opponent's LP) and (this card = Synchro Summoned)" which can be useful sometimes but it's less intuitive and inherently requires taking in more info. If you were to order the information in the same manner, it gets even more weird.
"While your LP are lower than your opponent's, this Synchro Summoned card [Unaffected]: Your opponent's activated card effects."
Implies it starts a chain? Like I haven't looked into this in detail because it isn't an issue with the current PSCT but it seems like it also implies that the effect has changed from a continuous effect to at least some form of activated effect (like Tragoedia has its ATK gain effect that is a continuous effect and its level modulation effect is an activated effect, this writing might change Psychic End Punisher in a similar way). Also it's just awkward to read and all you cut out was "is" and "by."
And this is just talking about the issues with trying to rewrite the text on a single card. It is at best just going around in a circle and at worse causes actual ruling questions.
To this day, I still have no idea what "float" means
i agree with the argument about need to stop calling cards by other card names like ROTA,soulcharge etc. reborn is an exception as its sound natural enough as a term to bring something back from grave.
but the terms MILL,brick,spin those are universal card game lingos those are fine to stay
I disagree with the piercing thing. Cards do exist like the Mikano that can inflict battle damage even on defense position monsters they attack, though that effect would not be piercing.
I get you and understand you and respect your opinion.
However, my dream of conducting an entire duel with only abbreviations needs to come true.
There is an episode of ygotas where yami does a turn spamming abreviations. Episode 80 I think
That’s not actually what an archetype is
Who are you talking to that says ss to refer to sky striker?
I was with you but it started getting stupid at the end.
SS is a verb. You special summon your monsters; they’re not an archetype like sky striker or six samurai or any of the others you named. No one would make that mistake. And I’ve never heard anyone call imperm an effect veiler. They’re called hand traps.
piercing into defence position makes sense. it purposely excludes attack position monsters that take no battle damage
I don't think that is what piercing damage is supposed to be
You have flame wingman who inflicts all the ATK on the opponent
Having a card that punishes Def POS monsters is also piercing
So what is flame wingmans ATK effect called "breaking damage"
@@haruhisuzumiya6650It’s just effect damage. Flame wingman’s effect doesn’t do anything that warrants a new term
@@dagothurik1815 There's already a community term for it anyway: Burn.
I have to disagree with your point that Yugioh lingo and abbreviations make getting into the game harder tbh. Those terms are after all supposed to make communication between players quicker and not used to explain things to newcomers. Also if you dont know a term or what an abbreviation means you can just ask (or at worst google it). It's really not a hurdle imo.
Archetypes are not things that have similar funtion. They are literally types of cards arced together with a single purpose, or lore. It is indicated by the shared word(s) within the naming scheme and their interlocking effects.
This video is loaded with logical fallacies.
the major reason why a notable amount of these terms exist in the current is the lack of a keywords. keywords always get created if not official, player made. if players are presented with an full sentence , they will shorten it down a couple words. the issue is when players have to make them there's no official resources so current players are reading words while new players full sentences.
I also find it annoying when people use these new words for the game in the wrong way. Like the word Brick, someone was using another deck I brought because they forgot theirs and told me after round one that they "bricked hard" and I asked what they opening hand looked like, and they told me it was 2 Dark Magician Girls, 1 Magician salvation, 1 Magician's rod and 1 Magicians' soul -_-
I asked him how that was a brick and he said it was because he wasn't able to do more plays, and I explained to him that when I heard Brick I thought he meant he just had to pass his turn
I mean I don’t see the problem 🤷🏽
These words convey well known types of effects more quickly so we only spend time explaining more unique/niche ones
Makes communication much more efficient; as for the new player thing…they’ll learn pretty quickly if they’re interested
Bit of a nothing burger of a video but hey, different perspectives are good sometimes
lol the forbidden droplet in the end is that real? he did that miss in tournament?😂
Do people actually use the term BiR for Branded in Red? I've heard of BraFu but that's about it.
I always say "spec. summ." for special summon
"norms" for normal summon
"tribs" for tribute summon
for removal, I prefer say "go home" instead of "spin" for card returned from field to the deck.
Return card from GY to hand: "TWRA (The Warrior Returning Alive) or rein (monster reincarnation)" instead of "salvage"
Milling, bouncing, and spinning aren't even yugioh terms. They are general card game terms now because of magic
Most of that terminology was borrowed from Magic the Gathering. Is basic card game language at this point.
2:20 or if you`r a German the New "Schutzstaffel" Card
I have wondered about so many of these before, especially ROTA. thank you for explaining the things that the vetrans never did.
Hello. New Duel Links player here. I built two decks. A Red Eyes Fusion for Joey Wheeler with skill 'Red Eyes Roulette' and a Dinomist Pendulum for Declan Akaba with skill 'United Pendulums'. I'm now completely out of gems and tickets and have no idea what to do next. Any ideas?
You use a lot of words to explain nothing. Yugioh is a card game in which everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) a card does is written on the card itself, opposed to Magic where a card does one hundred things and those things are written on the card, but then it mentions Double Attack, Toxic or the Dungeon once and suddendly the card does one million more things you have to search a SEPARATE ARTICLE FROM THE CARD ITSELF to understand WHAT THE CARD DOES. Of course there are upsides to this, for example it helps experienced people understand and explain what a card does to others, and it sets a standard for cards with similar effects. This is exactly why Yugioh players use slang to explain to others what a card does, usually using older famous cards as example or generic card games terms
"Now i S all my KBs to SS my Kuribabylon to my side of the F"
Ok and? Every card gane except like pokemon has these 💀 joining a card game and expecting key terms to not exist is like going to the toilet and being surprised you pissrd
....Its still kinda weird when you have to force your pattern recognition to shorten distinct words into keywords.
Personally i made some for summoning. "from the xtra/deck" becomes Deploy, "from grave" to Revive & "from hand" becomes Engage. And sometimes "negate then destroy" into Shatter.
I think you're looking way too much into this
Flame wingmans ATK effect should be called piercing damage but perhaps breaking damage is better
I know I say this but Effect stuns, that can't make it simple to play, more of a different dialect is rather stressful, Its why I try to play casually in a way.
is not a yugioh problem is your reading comprehension.