The Minister's questioning was deliberately confusing by compounding multiple concepts together and putting him on the spot to answer yes/no giving him little time to decide the broader implications that the minister intended to draw from these answers. PJ Thum's self-discipline to maintaining his clarity of thought and composure throughout the process is remarkable and is a success in itself. Good job!
Good point Bryan. Simply because Shanmugam is trained as a lawyer and his questions are designed to make him win. But truth is truth and on Judgement Day, I like to see Shanmugam debate with God. See how his lawyer type question/answer can help him on that Day. :)
My question to you Mr cheong , according to modern science, it's been proved multiple times that Earth is spherical in nature but also according to flat earthers, the earth is flat. Therefore according to these 2 perspectives, what is the Earth's shape. Yes or no?
@@lifeneedsmorechill An institution is only as strong as the facts and principles it is built on. Alternative voices will always have a right to express themselves, but some that lack the grounds gain no traction and naturally fade into irrelevance.
Dr Thum I am proud of you as a fellow country man. U have the balls to stand up to bullying! Is this really what this country about ??!! Darn this is such a shame !!!
He keeps cutting Prof Thum off during his elaboration of a question. I don’t see that kind of behaviour from Prof Thum who is quite a gentlemen I might add. I would like to hear Prof Thum’s explanation, but it’s almost always interrupted by him. It seems like this is a one way street. One party only wants to hear what it wants to hear. No point continuing this conversation.
Shanmugam is doing what Lawyers are paid to do, he has several objectives one of them is to discredit the qualifications of PJ Thum, by strictly sticking to a “Yes”, “No” , he’s trying to discredit Thums credibility as a Historian. Doing that he’s one step closer to demolishing Thum’s testimony & work on this issue. Then establish that Thum’s work is false & therefore cannot stand. You are watching a very skilled lawyer at work. I must hand it to Thum, he’s alert, consistent and sticks to his narrative. His objections & disagreements to statements from Shanmugam lays as consistent a view with regards to Thum’s viewpoints that were published in his writings on this subject.
Why Shanmugam can’t let the scholar finish his statement before interjecting? The flow of thoughts is regularly interrupted. I think the meeting is out of order and I’m quite surprised that the chair didn’t put it back to order. It’s very disrupting to audience trying to follow through the thoughts.
Would he allow LKY to explain all the things he said during the inquiry into the Nassim Jade & Scotts 28 episode...??? No lah!!! he will allow him to sing like a canary
the chair is a lily-livered fool no different than the milo mascot installed in the istana. These people has no sense of shame as they have in its stead, stashed full of money.
All these things discussed happened when I was only a young man struggling to survive with my family with a lowly pay. I am thankful they brought these matters up and I get a better perspective of the turbulent time that we went through. Thumbs up to PJ Thum for standing up to the grilling sitting down.
Dr Thum easily survived 6 hours of microscopic examination by a SC. Dr Thum is not legally train. But he managed to outsmart SC Shanmugum who used dubious tactics like coercion to corner him. Shame on the minister who come across as behaving like a thug.
Depends on what you mean by survived... and I dont think that Shan was using coercion (to persuade someone by force or threats).. he simply pointed out that there are inconsistencies in his statements 1. He claims that Chin Peng is not a reliable source and yet he relies on it 2. He hasnt read all the records on this topic and being a historian he isnt familiar with all the material is very strange.. he claims there are thousands of documents at 1.12.00 mark and therefore he cannot have gone through them.. that is not good academic practice at all.. 3. The reason why Shan wants him to give a yes and no answer is two pronged.. 1. it is a matter of style to know his view and then his explanation which he allowed him to do so on multiple occasions and 2. to stop him going back to explanations which have been debunked already previously
@@shaunlee8425 No. What was inferred was that Chin Peng is not a reliable source - quote carefully, take with a pinch of salt. 2. You have read many things, can you quote senstences and references by heart? Not even sham. he reads off a transcript. all the mps read off a transcript in Singapore. What a waste of time. 3. It is not a matter of style (if u would call a bludgeon or a dagger styles). It is a tactic to corner the ignorant and faint hearted into a corner like what sham said ""by trying to be precise, we all know what you (sham) are trying to do, you (sham) are trying to paint a picture that is untrue'.
@@nieiniei your reply 2 years too late la. LOL. I'm with Thum and it seems many people are too. Not that popularity view matters but Shan rubs me off as condescending and tries to skew the perspective by asking questions that helps to protect the image of govt and subtly insinuates that Thum got his facts wrong. Your citizens may not be lawyers/historians Shan, but they ain't dumb as well.
Shanmugam has read the document but he can't comprehend it, simply because he does not have a Doctorate in History but manages to use selected works of Thum to cross examine him from a legal point, but the fact remains, if cross examining people via a legal point, them you must allow the person questioned to give a proper answer, not Yes or No.
History should be debated among historians. The lawyer is a nuisance and distraction when one actually hopes to learn something meaningful about singapore's historical relationship with communism.
@@lamsunyong343 I am sure historical facts cannot be established by Shan who is clearly a PAP minister and controls this debate in an authoritarian way.
I'm watching this and I'm thinking, as riveting as it is, and I thoroughly enjoy that we openly at least talk about these things openly as a country, I can't but help imagining that by halfway through, everyone inside the room is craving Prata. I certainly am! Intelligent discussions make me hungry! Thanks for the interesting discussion guys!
Its funny how the minister in charge of the ISD, the successor of Special Branch, is trying to argue that the autobiography of Chin Peng, a leader of the Malayan Communist Party is a more reliable source than the Special Branch documents.
Prof Thum you are a Historian researching base on facts...he is a Lawyer who can twist the facts and win a case for a Murderer so says LKY when he changes trial by Jury to trial by a judge or judges
Lee Kuan Yew and his pap have abused instruments of state to entrench their rule in Singapore like using the ISD to lock up their opponents. Passing legislation to facilitate and legitimise their oppression of the oppositions in Singapore is one of their favourite too. Dr Jothie Rajah, daughter of ex-Judicial Commissioner K.S.Rajah and ex-wife of Minister Shanmugum, wrote this book, Authoritarian Rule of Law, detailing the evil ways of the pap government.
the pap machinery and gerrymandering will ensure they keep the stooges and fiercest dogs. Have you seen the new vote counting machines? That's how pap will win.
Dr Thum is so calm and he know his work well. I don't understand why S has to twist and make assumption and ask a bunch of questions with contradict statements, with the intention to try to confuse Thum. This is very low tactic.
So many of the questions asked were based on ifs and assumptions in a demanding manner. We all know the weight of hypothetical questions in this setting. I was amazed at how conservatively PJ smriked. A total exhibition of class and discipline.
wow such details, enthralled to see the historian go thru such a long time under many questions, i feel very tired especially part 1 whr they asked him about his background which was formal, but not essential... 😅
@@lamsunyong343 you can be with a political agenda and still be handicapped in a "debate" as displayed here. i don't recall anywhere in my remarks where i mentioned or remotely implied that thum has no political agenda.
TPJ does not trust that S would allow him a full hearing. S’ persistent interruptions leave the audience totally confused as to the big picture of this exchange. So what is the falsehood which was alleged?
what's the point of the jury questioning the historian? i dont think its a debate, is a trial imo- is trials supposed to be yes/no without any explanation?
not much of a debate really when: "We ask the questions...and then you answer the question that is being asked" - th-cam.com/video/7riDKnI8mO4/w-d-xo.html
Seeing this mamak lawyer on his grilling of PJ Thum showed clear sign of arrogance high and mighty attitude that he is the best lawyer that the PAP has. His stay will be a liability as the PAP ship will sink in GE2025 with him around. He is responsible for the stupid laws and regulations which if they are out of line with modern times. The result of not adjusting with the new world changing of time and technology and if their antiquated brains are not tune to the changes It will not goes well with the G5 youngsters who are turn off with the PAP style of government. Basically all the PAP policies that been formulated and carried out, almost all the time had been shoved down the citizens throat. The modus operandi of threats, fears, characters assassination, insignificant racism slurs are all talk that does not in anyway affect Sporeans bcos the citizens have come to a stagel where our tolerance has reached to the maximum level. Look at Indonesia who will be going to climb up the ladder to 3rd position in the world as one of the big economic giants. From the most corrupted country to a real democratic country where democracy is being practiced not just seen. There are Muslim radicals and the communist party are allowed to co exist but they are all contained and constraints where the rules of law are really being observed and strictly adhered to. Their Process of nation building, infrastructures and governance management are moving at lightning speed where things before took a lengthy duration now slash to an amazing quick time. They are going to into the G5 era using AI incorporated. They are moving in tandem with China economically as even a 17 year old can hack into any country security system. In just 4 years many highways hv been completed. A new Jakarta MRT is now running. The poor people lives are now enlighten as Jokovi priority was to seriously address the issues. Cheap flats were build at lightning speed to house the squatters. Spore PAP smart scholars and generals cud pick some tips on how to look after and care for Sporeans with the nagging issues that cause the stress they have a been facing and not being addressed. President Jokovi is a normal uni grad and his father had a small carpentry biz. He is managing a country of 270 million people of 700 race, religions and diversified cultures. His principle is live and lets live but with optimism and observing the rules of law. if Indonesia can do things faster Spore should be able to do better.
anyone care to explain whats operation coldstore? why the historian is being asked in such a manner? whats the purpose of such questioning? who decides and what basis will the court be determined by a mp not a typical judge? 😅 So many questions here and so surprising, can someone enlighten me?
Look at the number of bots here, pretty much all from the same bunch of people with no video content whatsoever. I'm actually worried at how foreign powers are playing the long term game of influencing one's bias
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
It gives me the feeling that Shanmugam only wants to listen to the answer that he believes in. The rest will then be rendered irrelevant.
He who speaks and let no others speak KNOWS NOT what he SPEAKS!!!
Shanmugam is protecting PAP govt. Nothing surprising.
The Minister's questioning was deliberately confusing by compounding multiple concepts together and putting him on the spot to answer yes/no giving him little time to decide the broader implications that the minister intended to draw from these answers. PJ Thum's self-discipline to maintaining his clarity of thought and composure throughout the process is remarkable and is a success in itself. Good job!
Good point Bryan. Simply because Shanmugam is trained as a lawyer and his questions are designed to make him win. But truth is truth and on Judgement Day, I like to see Shanmugam debate with God. See how his lawyer type question/answer can help him on that Day. :)
My question to you Mr cheong , according to modern science, it's been proved multiple times that Earth is spherical in nature but also according to flat earthers, the earth is flat. Therefore according to these 2 perspectives, what is the Earth's shape. Yes or no?
@@lifeneedsmorechill An institution is only as strong as the facts and principles it is built on. Alternative voices will always have a right to express themselves, but some that lack the grounds gain no traction and naturally fade into irrelevance.
@@lifeneedsmorechillYour question to Mr Cheong.
Simple. Answer is: 3
Shammugam should just give him objective Questions. IT Will save a lot of time.
How can this be called a "debate", when one side clearly has more control over the line of questioning and answers given.
Did u ever seen how others ASEAN countries debate before a new law execute?
Dr Thum I am proud of you as a fellow country man. U have the balls to stand up to bullying! Is this really what this country about ??!! Darn this is such a shame !!!
He keeps cutting Prof Thum off during his elaboration of a question.
I don’t see that kind of behaviour from Prof Thum who is quite a gentlemen I might add.
I would like to hear Prof Thum’s explanation, but it’s almost always interrupted by him.
It seems like this is a one way street.
One party only wants to hear what it wants to hear. No point continuing this conversation.
Yes agreef. Fact is that if he were to say yes/no the ans can be interpreted carefullly to suit the conclusion. HEEHEE what a smart move!!! 🎈 🎀🌹
The pap way?
Shanmugam is doing what Lawyers are paid to do, he has several objectives one of them is to discredit the qualifications of PJ Thum, by strictly sticking to a “Yes”, “No” , he’s trying to discredit Thums credibility as a Historian. Doing that he’s one step closer to demolishing Thum’s testimony & work on this issue. Then establish that Thum’s work is false & therefore cannot stand. You are watching a very skilled lawyer at work. I must hand it to Thum, he’s alert, consistent and sticks to his narrative. His objections & disagreements to statements from Shanmugam lays as consistent a view with regards to Thum’s viewpoints that were published in his writings on this subject.
After watching how to get away with murder....i can totally understand this.
Are you sure Dr. Thum is credible. He obviously has his own agenda and anti PAP
@@RonLarhzsaya x pernah ke singgapor.saya i wilaya perseletuata
@@komalolo3138
Tak tauwu lah. Channel 5 boleh kan.
Why Shanmugam can’t let the scholar finish his statement before interjecting? The flow of thoughts is regularly interrupted. I think the meeting is out of order and I’m quite surprised that the chair didn’t put it back to order. It’s very disrupting to audience trying to follow through the thoughts.
Would he allow LKY to explain all the things he said during the inquiry into the Nassim Jade & Scotts 28 episode...??? No lah!!! he will allow him to sing like a canary
Exactly! So frustrating , and furthermore Shanmugan talks so slowly
Well, that's because the Chair and the others sitting on that panel up there are playing for the same team if you will
the chair is a lily-livered fool no different than the milo mascot installed in the istana. These people has no sense of shame as they have in its stead, stashed full of money.
@@nieiniei charles chong not educated and dont know much, the lowest ranked is the chair in parliament committees usually.
All these things discussed happened when I was only a young man struggling to survive with my family with a lowly pay. I am thankful they brought these matters up and I get a better perspective of the turbulent time that we went through. Thumbs up to PJ Thum for standing up to the grilling sitting down.
Thum is a historian shanmugam studied law why the hell does he have the cheek to tell a historian how to do his job.
Dr Thum easily survived 6 hours of microscopic examination by a SC. Dr Thum is not legally train. But he managed to outsmart SC Shanmugum who used dubious tactics like coercion to corner him. Shame on the minister who come across as behaving like a thug.
I think his background requires him to be very accurate and correct helps.
Depends on what you mean by survived... and I dont think that Shan was using coercion (to persuade someone by force or threats).. he simply pointed out that there are inconsistencies in his statements
1. He claims that Chin Peng is not a reliable source and yet he relies on it
2. He hasnt read all the records on this topic and being a historian he isnt familiar with all the material is very strange.. he claims there are thousands of documents at 1.12.00 mark and therefore he cannot have gone through them.. that is not good academic practice at all..
3. The reason why Shan wants him to give a yes and no answer is two pronged.. 1. it is a matter of style to know his view and then his explanation which he allowed him to do so on multiple occasions and 2. to stop him going back to explanations which have been debunked already previously
@@shaunlee8425 No. What was inferred was that Chin Peng is not a reliable source - quote carefully, take with a pinch of salt.
2. You have read many things, can you quote senstences and references by heart? Not even sham. he reads off a transcript. all the mps read off a transcript in Singapore. What a waste of time.
3. It is not a matter of style (if u would call a bludgeon or a dagger styles). It is a tactic to corner the ignorant and faint hearted into a corner like what sham said ""by trying to be precise, we all know what you (sham) are trying to do, you (sham) are trying to paint a picture that is untrue'.
@@nieiniei your reply 2 years too late la. LOL. I'm with Thum and it seems many people are too. Not that popularity view matters but Shan rubs me off as condescending and tries to skew the perspective by asking questions that helps to protect the image of govt and subtly insinuates that Thum got his facts wrong.
Your citizens may not be lawyers/historians Shan, but they ain't dumb as well.
PAP is a bully and and manipulates people to make them look bad who is against them
Shanmugam has read the document but he can't comprehend it, simply because he does not have a Doctorate in History but manages to use selected works of Thum to cross examine him from a legal point, but the fact remains, if cross examining people via a legal point, them you must allow the person questioned to give a proper answer, not Yes or No.
History should be debated among historians. The lawyer is a nuisance and distraction
when one actually hopes to learn something meaningful about singapore's historical relationship with communism.
Historical fact cannot be established by an open court style, one-way cross examination.
p tam
p tan I am very much agree with you
I m sure historical facts cannot be established in this case when someone like Dr. Thum has a very clear anti-PAP agenda.
@@lamsunyong343 I am sure historical facts cannot be established by Shan who is clearly a PAP minister and controls this debate in an authoritarian way.
Smart of the Straits Times to refer to this obviously partisan grilling as a “debate”.
If it is an attempt to show what Dr Thum put up is wrong or misleading. The attempt is not convincing even if Dr Thum is really wrong.
Shanmugam does not know more than Thum and attempt to defend his own thoughts and were beating around the bush!!!
I'm watching this and I'm thinking, as riveting as it is, and I thoroughly enjoy that we openly at least talk about these things openly as a country, I can't but help imagining that by halfway through, everyone inside the room is craving Prata. I certainly am! Intelligent discussions make me hungry!
Thanks for the interesting discussion guys!
Its funny how the minister in charge of the ISD, the successor of Special Branch, is trying to argue that the autobiography of Chin Peng, a leader of the Malayan Communist Party is a more reliable source than the Special Branch documents.
Prof Thum you are a Historian researching base on facts...he is a Lawyer who can twist the facts and win a case for a Murderer so says LKY when he changes trial by Jury to trial by a judge or judges
Return to sender
What we NEED is a TRUMP to clean the SWAMP and expose the FAKE NEWS
Lee Kuan Yew and his pap have abused instruments of state to entrench their rule in Singapore like using the ISD to lock up their opponents. Passing legislation to facilitate and legitimise their oppression of the oppositions in Singapore is one of their favourite too. Dr Jothie Rajah, daughter of ex-Judicial Commissioner K.S.Rajah and ex-wife of Minister Shanmugum, wrote this book, Authoritarian Rule of Law, detailing the evil ways of the pap government.
Shanmugam at this rate going to lose his seat in the next GE...
the pap machinery and gerrymandering will ensure they keep the stooges and fiercest dogs. Have you seen the new vote counting machines? That's how pap will win.
Guess what? Popping in 2yrs later...
Dr Thum is so calm and he know his work well. I don't understand why S has to twist and make assumption and ask a bunch of questions with contradict statements, with the intention to try to confuse Thum. This is very low tactic.
So many of the questions asked were based on ifs and assumptions in a demanding manner. We all know the weight of hypothetical questions in this setting. I was amazed at how conservatively PJ smriked. A total exhibition of class and discipline.
What's the point of having a chairman if he is going to be rudely interrupted?
He gives a scolding & /or reminder of rule after the incident took place. What is the purpose? Is it effective? Or mere display of authority?
Narrow minded questions, only getting answers that are targeted to make a person looked bad, us usual
wow such details, enthralled to see the historian go thru such a long time under many questions, i feel very tired especially part 1 whr they asked him about his background which was formal, but not essential... 😅
i have no idea what shanmugam is babbling about
pj thum is brave to take on someone with an agenda and full backing of the state
Hello. You think Dr. Thum has no political agenda?
@@lamsunyong343 you can be with a political agenda and still be handicapped in a "debate" as displayed here. i don't recall anywhere in my remarks where i mentioned or remotely implied that thum has no political agenda.
TPJ does not trust that S would allow him a full hearing. S’ persistent interruptions leave the audience totally confused as to the big picture of this exchange. So what is the falsehood which was alleged?
what's the point of the jury questioning the historian? i dont think its a debate, is a trial imo- is trials supposed to be yes/no without any explanation?
How is he a law miniister?
Shan is really a joker... the way he is struggling to link his sentences together. LOL
Shame was just reading from his notes, this ain’t debate at all!
Like the rebuttal by Dr. Thum towards the end as Shan tries to link him to David Irving 😀
Malu! They bullying a Historian?
So many against One???? Come On!!!
PAP style
Debate? Debates will sit and stand at the same level. Is this the case?
So many issues … to be treated later on. I cannot remember so many issues. Issues are so truncated to allow the narrative of the powerful to prevail.
I tell you the truth, some voters are truly blind. They can't tell if it's right or wrong to vote for bias. ~ ig thelifetimecoach
1:39:30 "You don't prove negative"
In this exchange, who is the one with the power?
Thumb 1, Sham 0
"Debate"? This is clearly a cross examination with the requirement of "yes" and "no" answers lol
not much of a debate really when:
"We ask the questions...and then you answer the question that is being asked" - th-cam.com/video/7riDKnI8mO4/w-d-xo.html
The moderator seems like enjoying the session himself by the way he smiled at you.
Semua orang pun x ada keluar jumpah saya selama ni.sopi lajada .keday keday pun .semua x ada keluar
Regardless of who win in this session, history will give it a fair trial in the future
Im not sure abt that hehe
@@curriebiscake3757 its ok, u r never sure😂🤣😂🤣
@@deschan2246 nah im saying im not sure if history will be giving a fair trial
you never know.
history is dependent on the author.
@@deschan2246 and you dont know me right :) so your judgement is not really valid? hehe 🙊
I dnt like the way law minister behaves. Jayakuma better ... Hai....
No contest One is an IDIOT trying to be SMART!!!
His line of questioning irritate me somehow ..give PJ a chance to speak ..he's alone against your uplifted might and co workers
He didn't do cold store for his dissertation
Interogation session?🤔
When the camera is your wife Moment: 1:25:17
Seeing this mamak lawyer on his grilling of PJ Thum showed clear sign of arrogance high and mighty attitude that he is the best lawyer that the PAP has. His stay will be a liability as the PAP ship will sink in GE2025 with him around. He is responsible for the stupid laws and regulations which if they are out of line with modern times. The result of not adjusting with the new world changing of time and technology and if their antiquated brains are not tune to the changes It will not goes well with the G5 youngsters who are turn off with the PAP style of government. Basically all the PAP policies that been formulated and carried out, almost all the time had been shoved down the citizens throat. The modus operandi of threats, fears, characters assassination, insignificant racism slurs are all
talk that does not in anyway affect Sporeans bcos the citizens have come to a stagel where our tolerance has reached to the maximum level.
Look at Indonesia who will be going to climb up the ladder to 3rd position in the world as one of the big economic giants. From the most corrupted country to a real democratic country where democracy is being practiced not just seen. There are Muslim radicals and the communist party are allowed to co exist but they are all contained and constraints where the rules of law are really being observed and strictly adhered to. Their Process of nation building, infrastructures and governance management are moving at lightning speed where things before took a lengthy duration now slash to an amazing quick time. They are going to into the G5 era using AI incorporated. They are moving in tandem with China economically as even a 17 year old can hack into any country security system. In just 4 years many highways hv been completed. A new Jakarta MRT is now running.
The poor people lives are now enlighten as Jokovi priority was to seriously address the issues. Cheap flats were build at lightning speed to house the squatters. Spore PAP smart scholars and generals cud pick some tips on how to look after and care for Sporeans with the nagging issues that cause the stress they have a been facing and not being addressed. President Jokovi is a normal uni grad and his father had a small carpentry biz. He is managing a country of 270 million people of 700 race, religions and diversified cultures.
His principle is live and lets live but with optimism and observing the rules of law. if Indonesia can do things faster Spore should be able to do better.
No give..diorang tu bulih .saya mawdatang sini labuan .di malaysi,saya tinggal kampung gesel baru
1:41:27 the goat
It's not a free country lah that's why you need to explain and explain in order to not get into trouble. Why so trouble?
Banyak penipu di tempat saya ni ,di malsysia wilayah persejetuan labuan
Is this even a conversation ??!!! Gosh
He is a lawyer by profession. So he has a more analytical mind.
Mr MP talking about competency wor … I personally find this very funny
??? What is this ? ¿ ?
As a lawyer, the interrogater is overrated. How he rose to prominence is truly buffling....curry flavouring, perhaps?
anyone care to explain whats operation coldstore? why the historian is being asked in such a manner? whats the purpose of such questioning? who decides and what basis will the court be determined by a mp not a typical judge? 😅 So many questions here and so surprising, can someone enlighten me?
Minister cannot take a joke
No room for creativity or critical thought surrounding the historical facts
..his ghost is still in the room ....
hahaha those not participating are taking scarf to cover, some yawning lolol. feels like an oral exam but at least the historian didnt fall asleep.
Everyone talk not consistent, desert storm talk all OK, kelaka seram
1:41:00
Oll manege my bisnis no
Hypocritical minister
We all know what minister is trying to do here …. Don’t be a bully
TPT > Shansnakegum
Look at the number of bots here, pretty much all from the same bunch of people with no video content whatsoever. I'm actually worried at how foreign powers are playing the long term game of influencing one's bias