I love how this version of the theme is softer to represent Ieyasu's iconical patience and cool-minded attitude while Mitsunari's one is all over the top to represent his idealism and will to fight for his friends.
It certainly is interesting, how people view Ieyasu. Some hate him, other like him. No one can deny that the guy was both crafty, and smart. He did a good job unifying Japan, giving over 200 years of peace. Samurai Warriors (the later installments) gives him sympathetic qualities, treating his allies and friends like family, giving him his signature patience and forbearance. While the real life version most probably wanted power for himself, the Samurai Warriors version most likely wanted to end the bloodshed by unifying the country. Heck, there’s a cutscene of him mourning over the losses after a battle! As for his interactions with Mitsunari, I don’t have much to say. I wish the games fleshed that out a bit more other than “rising tensions.” Was Mitsunari jealous and scared of Ieyasu’s power and prestige? Was Ieyasu disapproving of Mitsunari’s inexperience and deemed him unfit to be the unifier? Ieyasu bowed to Hideyoshi when he was alive, and they both have been active for decades before Nobunaga’s assassination. In the end, we can only speculate. If they ever release a Samurai Warriors 5, I would like Koei Tecmo to flesh out these characters and their motives. Going back to character-specific stories like SW3 could work well in this regard, though I like the timeline of the Warring States Period.
That alone (200 years of peace) is quite an achievement. Yeah i did see that cutscene in SW4 (not SW4-II sadly) where Ieyasu mourns over his allies after being defeated in battle (which is Escape from Mikatagahara wasnt it?)
Lucas Wibisono “Even if I am labeled disloyal or heartless....” Ieyasu is aware that he will be viewed as a villain, but he remains strong in his convictions to bring a land without war. He carried the burdens of everyone on his back, and, unlike many other proud warlords who would die in the conflict, he would keep those memories after the dust settles, even if he does die a year after Osaka. This game makes sure that everyone is seen as tragic, even Matsunaga, the self-proclaimed villain, and Masamune, the ambitious imbecile. It’s romanticized, but it makes for great story.
Vesty Steiner Historically Mitsunari did none of the bad stuff. His reputation has been horrendously disparaged by Tokugawa Shogunate and Japanese scholars only "rediscovered" Mitsunari's actual presence in very recent years. And historically Liu Bei was just a bad person.
Actually, if you listen to this song more clearly you will find out how emotional it is and if u listen to the Ishida version you will feel like your a samurai who knows that he is about to die on the battlefield but still will fight no matter what the cost is this was really composed beautifully for this battle.
Love both themes but speeding this up to 1.5x sounds more like what I’d imagine charging straight into the enemy army as a retreat strategy felt like as one of the Shimazu. Equally heroic and frantic.
Those three dislikes are Mitsunari, Yoshitsugu, and Sakon. (Curse the Tokugawa! D:< ) I am so sorry, I had to. XDDDDD I'm terrible :') but... this version sounds more darker than Ishida's version ;-;
Nope. Eastern army was loosing. Western army lost because of the betrayals. Ieyasu was not leading anyone - aye, most of the calculations Western army did nearly won the battle. IT was because of Kobayakawa and others that WA lost...
At the moment of Hideaki's betrayal, Ukita was beaten Fukushima and Otani the same with Todo. Even when Kobayakawa flanked Yoshitsugu he was ready and caused heavy loses to Kobayakawa. However Takatora returned to the fight flanking Otani, even at that moment he was able to resist. When Wakisaka, Kutsuki, Ogawa and Akaza defected he was annihilated and the Western Army was defeated.
Well, sengoku era is similar to this analogy: Nobunaga prepares the ingredients to make, say a bread Hideyoshi kneads the dough Ieyasu ate the bread Ieyasu is a fucking coward, yet smart at the same time. He just wait the perfect opportunity. But that's the reality. Some people think survival is the best, while some think that pride and honor is everything. Nothing wrong with both of them.
I never got why people liked the western army and Ishida more specifically. I don't know if its just me backing the winning horse or something but I just never got the appeal of Mitsunari Ishida. All his character is, is a stuck up prick. That's it. Why is that appealing?
@Harunobu Takeda Except for the part about him invading Korea and potentially China and his willingness to press the campaign had he not died of illness, not to mention he made it impossible for anyone to move up the social later the same way he did. Hearing the "rightful heir" bit as reasoning is nothing short of hypocrisy since Nobunaga brought an end to the Ashikaga Shogunate so I guess you have to toss him into the same basket as Tokugawa as well, along with every other warlord who betrayed/cut off an ally as soon as their usefulness ended. Hideyoshi and his base were far from saints, and so were the Tokugawas, Hideyoshi used ruthless politicking to secure power just like Ieyasu did, that was just how times were.
I don't know about other people, but I believe it is because...for centuries, Mitsunari was not regarded as a great man of Sengoku since he lost the war against Ieyasu. Historians of the old paid him no mind. Flash forward to 21st century where "what-ifs" and morally gray themes are accepted in media, the historians became interested on what really happened in the past and discovered that Mitsunari was once a great tactician (despite his faults) that most historians failed to acknowledge for hundreds of years. *Quote from wiki : In general, traditional Japanese historiography did not pay much attention to Mitsunari's legacy, as he lost and Tokugawa won; he was often portrayed as a weak bureaucrat. His reputation has somewhat recovered since then, with later historians noting his skill in planning and earlier battlefield victories, and that Sekigahara could easily have gone the other way had a few more lords on his side stayed loyal.* So to compensate for all those misconceptions, media portrayed him as a more sympathetic character, which in turn piqued the interest of the public about Mitsunari.
@Harunobu Takeda What exactly makes the western army Hideyoshi's legitimate heir? Hideyoshi appointed five guardians for Hideyori before he died; Ieyasu was one of them (the others were Terumoto Mori, Kagekatsu Uesugi, Hideie Ukita, and Toshiie Maeda). Note who isn't one of them? Mitsunari. Japan might have been at peace, in a way, if you overlook Hideyoshi's disasterous Korean campaign, which the Tokugawa had the sense not to get involved in along with the Sanada and Date. But a nation cannot be lead by a five year old child. ANd Ieyasu, like it or not, did follow the Toyotomi, even after defeating Hideyoshi at Komaki and Nagakute. The others had little interest in working together to rule in Hideyori's place, especially Mori. Toshiie passed not long after Hideyoshi. Mitsunari was also not well liked; many only sided with him because they didn't trust Tokugawa. Speaking of legitimacy, who's to say who the legitimate ruler of Japan should have been? Nobunaga usurped power from the Ashikaga shogunate, using Yoshiaki as a puppet to justify his rule. Hideyoshi avenged Nobunaga's death, sure, but why does that mean he should be Nobunaga's sole successor? The answer is because he had the strength, resources, and support to put himself in power. Ieyasu was just continuing that trend. Hating Ieyasu while liking Nobunaga and Hideyoshi is pretty hypocritical.
Christopher in fact there were ten guardians, the five you've mentioned, alongside with five bugyos, among which Ishida was the leader (nominally Asano Nagamasa was but he was more or less removed from important roles around the time Hideyoshi died). During Sekigahara 7 guardians among the 10 were in the West Army so yeah, they are the rightful side of the war.
Behold the Army of Eastern. Sorry but Mitsunari is inapte to keep the Western Coalition tight and inapte to lead. Unlike Toukougawa and Eastern tighten the rule and everything
I love how this version of the theme is softer to represent Ieyasu's iconical patience and cool-minded attitude while Mitsunari's one is all over the top to represent his idealism and will to fight for his friends.
“Slow and steady wins the race.”
It certainly is interesting, how people view Ieyasu. Some hate him, other like him. No one can deny that the guy was both crafty, and smart. He did a good job unifying Japan, giving over 200 years of peace.
Samurai Warriors (the later installments) gives him sympathetic qualities, treating his allies and friends like family, giving him his signature patience and forbearance. While the real life version most probably wanted power for himself, the Samurai Warriors version most likely wanted to end the bloodshed by unifying the country. Heck, there’s a cutscene of him mourning over the losses after a battle!
As for his interactions with Mitsunari, I don’t have much to say. I wish the games fleshed that out a bit more other than “rising tensions.” Was Mitsunari jealous and scared of Ieyasu’s power and prestige? Was Ieyasu disapproving of Mitsunari’s inexperience and deemed him unfit to be the unifier? Ieyasu bowed to Hideyoshi when he was alive, and they both have been active for decades before Nobunaga’s assassination. In the end, we can only speculate.
If they ever release a Samurai Warriors 5, I would like Koei Tecmo to flesh out these characters and their motives. Going back to character-specific stories like SW3 could work well in this regard, though I like the timeline of the Warring States Period.
That alone (200 years of peace) is quite an achievement.
Yeah i did see that cutscene in SW4 (not SW4-II sadly) where Ieyasu mourns over his allies after being defeated in battle (which is Escape from Mikatagahara wasnt it?)
Lucas Wibisono “Even if I am labeled disloyal or heartless....”
Ieyasu is aware that he will be viewed as a villain, but he remains strong in his convictions to bring a land without war. He carried the burdens of everyone on his back, and, unlike many other proud warlords who would die in the conflict, he would keep those memories after the dust settles, even if he does die a year after Osaka.
This game makes sure that everyone is seen as tragic, even Matsunaga, the self-proclaimed villain, and Masamune, the ambitious imbecile. It’s romanticized, but it makes for great story.
I like him but I would never respect or love him like I do with Ishida Mitsunari.
@@fyncheniteO and thats Koei's big mistake. Mitsunari did some bad stuff, too. They however portray him like Liu Bei
Vesty Steiner Historically Mitsunari did none of the bad stuff. His reputation has been horrendously disparaged by Tokugawa Shogunate and Japanese scholars only "rediscovered" Mitsunari's actual presence in very recent years. And historically Liu Bei was just a bad person.
I imagine ieyasu jamming into battle with this theme
this song is awesome i must say very good job koei did :)
Have you checked out Ishida's version? :D
+rythmjc3 Western Version
+Luiz Marcelo I prefer the Eastern version, it sounds more traditional.
This and the interlude theme are my favourites from the game :)
I hope that add Mototada Tori to the game at some point! He would be an interesting addition because of his deeds
Agreed. The dynamic between him and Ieyasu would be great
I just hope they don't give him a bad impression like the SW 4 Hidetada
@@Sinstarclair hidetada got some life in the anime but not a lot
Beautiful
Actually, if you listen to this song more clearly you will find out how emotional it is and if u listen to the Ishida version you will feel like your a samurai who knows that he is about to die on the battlefield but still will fight no matter what the cost is this was really composed beautifully for this battle.
ikr, 2:30 feels like the "i got you part" meanwhile in Ishida Side the theme is less agressive.
Love both themes but speeding this up to 1.5x sounds more like what I’d imagine charging straight into the enemy army as a retreat strategy felt like as one of the Shimazu. Equally heroic and frantic.
0:55 ❤️
Bass guitar is dancing in the back. 😍😍
Why do killing fields suddenly sound so peaceful?
To give them a more somber feel.
2016년 교토 자유여핼 갈때 니죠성 갔을때 이 노래를 이어폰으로 들으면서 관광했는데..
흡사 도쿠가와 가문의 일원이 된 듯한 기분을 느꼈음.
Those three dislikes are Mitsunari, Yoshitsugu, and Sakon. (Curse the Tokugawa! D:< ) I am so sorry, I had to. XDDDDD I'm terrible :') but... this version sounds more darker than Ishida's version ;-;
+Muriehime Ishida I think the most tense version of the West
Also One from Yukimura
And another from Toyohisa
Don't forget Lady Yodo.
Looks like Kanetsugu disliked it too
Instrument in 0:57 ?
Shamisen
Only reason why I liked him was because he had hanzo in his team
Similar to the Sekigahara theme other there but no guitar and stuff.
guys wich instrument plays at 1:19
I believe it's the combination of flute and shamisen
THIS MAKES ME SO SADDDDDD, WHY DID THE WEST LOSE. WHY.
GAHHHHHH.
because ieyasu was better at leading troops?
Nope. Eastern army was loosing. Western army lost because of the betrayals. Ieyasu was not leading anyone - aye, most of the calculations Western army did nearly won the battle. IT was because of Kobayakawa and others that WA lost...
At the moment of Hideaki's betrayal, Ukita was beaten Fukushima and Otani the same with Todo. Even when Kobayakawa flanked Yoshitsugu he was ready and caused heavy loses to Kobayakawa. However Takatora returned to the fight flanking Otani, even at that moment he was able to resist. When Wakisaka, Kutsuki, Ogawa and Akaza defected he was annihilated and the Western Army was defeated.
"How can you win, when everyone has betrayed you?"
Slaying the enemy commander.
i want download it QAQ where can i download it? please tell me heuheuheu
Well, sengoku era is similar to this analogy:
Nobunaga prepares the ingredients to make, say a bread
Hideyoshi kneads the dough
Ieyasu ate the bread
Ieyasu is a fucking coward, yet smart at the same time. He just wait the perfect opportunity. But that's the reality. Some people think survival is the best, while some think that pride and honor is everything. Nothing wrong with both of them.
Ieyasu was a great political leader unlike Mitusnari. There's a reason Mitsunari was betrayed many times and Ieyasu wasn't.
he was cautious but no coward
Somebody have notes music ?
I never got why people liked the western army and Ishida more specifically. I don't know if its just me backing the winning horse or something but I just never got the appeal of Mitsunari Ishida. All his character is, is a stuck up prick. That's it. Why is that appealing?
they're not Tokugawa
@Harunobu Takeda Except for the part about him invading Korea and potentially China and his willingness to press the campaign had he not died of illness, not to mention he made it impossible for anyone to move up the social later the same way he did. Hearing the "rightful heir" bit as reasoning is nothing short of hypocrisy since Nobunaga brought an end to the Ashikaga Shogunate so I guess you have to toss him into the same basket as Tokugawa as well, along with every other warlord who betrayed/cut off an ally as soon as their usefulness ended.
Hideyoshi and his base were far from saints, and so were the Tokugawas, Hideyoshi used ruthless politicking to secure power just like Ieyasu did, that was just how times were.
I don't know about other people, but I believe it is because...for centuries, Mitsunari was not regarded as a great man of Sengoku since he lost the war against Ieyasu. Historians of the old paid him no mind. Flash forward to 21st century where "what-ifs" and morally gray themes are accepted in media, the historians became interested on what really happened in the past and discovered that Mitsunari was once a great tactician (despite his faults) that most historians failed to acknowledge for hundreds of years.
*Quote from wiki : In general, traditional Japanese historiography did not pay much attention to Mitsunari's legacy, as he lost and Tokugawa won; he was often portrayed as a weak bureaucrat. His reputation has somewhat recovered since then, with later historians noting his skill in planning and earlier battlefield victories, and that Sekigahara could easily have gone the other way had a few more lords on his side stayed loyal.*
So to compensate for all those misconceptions, media portrayed him as a more sympathetic character, which in turn piqued the interest of the public about Mitsunari.
@Harunobu Takeda What exactly makes the western army Hideyoshi's legitimate heir? Hideyoshi appointed five guardians for Hideyori before he died; Ieyasu was one of them (the others were Terumoto Mori, Kagekatsu Uesugi, Hideie Ukita, and Toshiie Maeda). Note who isn't one of them? Mitsunari. Japan might have been at peace, in a way, if you overlook Hideyoshi's disasterous Korean campaign, which the Tokugawa had the sense not to get involved in along with the Sanada and Date. But a nation cannot be lead by a five year old child. ANd Ieyasu, like it or not, did follow the Toyotomi, even after defeating Hideyoshi at Komaki and Nagakute.
The others had little interest in working together to rule in Hideyori's place, especially Mori. Toshiie passed not long after Hideyoshi. Mitsunari was also not well liked; many only sided with him because they didn't trust Tokugawa.
Speaking of legitimacy, who's to say who the legitimate ruler of Japan should have been? Nobunaga usurped power from the Ashikaga shogunate, using Yoshiaki as a puppet to justify his rule. Hideyoshi avenged Nobunaga's death, sure, but why does that mean he should be Nobunaga's sole successor? The answer is because he had the strength, resources, and support to put himself in power. Ieyasu was just continuing that trend. Hating Ieyasu while liking Nobunaga and Hideyoshi is pretty hypocritical.
Christopher in fact there were ten guardians, the five you've mentioned, alongside with five bugyos, among which Ishida was the leader (nominally Asano Nagamasa was but he was more or less removed from important roles around the time Hideyoshi died). During Sekigahara 7 guardians among the 10 were in the West Army so yeah, they are the rightful side of the war.
Glory to the East!
Behold the Army of Eastern. Sorry but Mitsunari is inapte to keep the Western Coalition tight and inapte to lead. Unlike Toukougawa and Eastern tighten the rule and everything
Historically speaking, I assume?
If Mori was there West army could have won