ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn discusses the topic of integration. Pathological narcissism is a disorder in which different parts of the self are not well-integrated, creating large disparities and discontinuities in identity, self-image, and perception of others. This phenomenon is sometimes called "splitting," and is thought to be partly due to chronic relational trauma and neglect in early childhood. Dr. Ettensohn explains how this occurs and provides suggestions for beginning to approach life more wholistically.
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#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #psychology #healing #psychoanalysis
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
I've never seen an abusive comment in a narc comments section, and I've been watching videos for prob 5 yrs lol. No need to warn anybody I think people kind of police themselves.
@@CHSN-1 the warning is because victims can be very abusive and in their feelings about their situation. In addition people like Dr Ramini aren't really in good faith
Politeness is what keeps us civil and respectful.
@thewanderer6637 - Your comments in my videos are almost uniformly critical of both my perspectives and of what you imagine me to be on a personal level, and yet I haven’t removed them. Surely, this fact is evidence that you are 100% wrong in your claim that I can’t handle criticism or disagreement. I legitimately don’t want people abusing each other on my forum. That’s it. 🤷🏻♂️
It totally makes sense that if you really hate yourself, deep down, that the closer you get to another person, the less you will like them. It’s like that quote, “I would not want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.”
I know a person with some narcissistic traits. These videos help me a lot. Compassion is so important when dealing with people who have been abused and shamed as toddlers and are going through stages of child development as adults in order to integrate.
What an antidote to the feverish sea of inflammatory videos on the subject. I was bobbing about in the wash for ages getting myself into a right lather of indignation and understanding nothing. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Very cool language!! I like that ❤
Thank you, for your videos.
There IS a myth that children are “resilient”
“Will forget,”. Or Will “just get over it”
That’s a lie. Children get wounded and need to be cared for, and protected. Not exposed to experiences they are too young to comprehend.
The story about the mother and the toddler made me cry. I want to be a child again, I want that. I honestly can't even remember a single time I ever actually was parented
Thanks for the vignette! That teaches the child to own his emotions and remain integrated. Imagine being taught right the first time.
Absolutely wonderful information and presentation. It’s interesting how so many videos-even by so-called professionals-shame and vilify people with NPD. Ironically, it’s the early shaming of the “bad” emotions that makes the NPD sufferer sometimes treat people badly in present day. It’s tiring to try to be happy and perfect-especially to those who contributed to our development in this direction.
The story you told about the mother and the angry child makes me feel so sad because I don't remember getting that from my mom. I have a few memories where my mom yelled at me or something I would cry and cry for some time waiting for that hug or for her to say "oh, I'm sorry sweetie, I didn't mean to" sometimes she did. But I remember after a certain time she just stopped doing that and I learnt to stop crying and to keep it inside or to cry in secret and not let anyone know how I feel.
I totally understand that feeling too. ❤
@@lmorman thank you, this is validating ❤️
Their parents did this to them_ they do it to their kids_ it's a culture of neglect and abuse that goes on and on_ we never learn_ the bible is just one story after another of our human condition for canabolism _ birth a scapegoat then eat it.
My narc mom literally turned her back at me when I cried and asked her for comfort. Also, she smirked.
Finally.! A more compassionate approach to NPD.
If these people are juat pure evil, what hope is there for the world and redemption?
Hmmm. I've been thinking of my ex as a mid-range, white knight narcissist but this is him, totally. Maybe he was more affected than I thought. He did get [more] therapy [at my urging, to deal with his traumatic childhood] in the last three years of our marriage. He resisted, saying, "But what if I do in this therapy what I always do?" [in retrospect, this demonstrated some self-awareness on his part, that he manipulated people and turned them into sources of supply] and I, knowing nothing about any of this stuff, said, "Well, don't! You see it happening, you explore that need in therapy." Well, the results? He turned her into a source of supply. This led him to feel what Dr Malkin calls 'entitlement surges.' Life at home became hell. Dangerous. I think after a couple of years, the clueless therapist [I don't know ...he refused to share anything that went on there and that was his right] started to see she'd a tiger by the tail and he started saying things like, "I don't think she likes me." He dropped her. He dropped me. ]Thank God] And now he's back to his 'nice guy' persona, as far as I know. I have as little to do with him as possible. Nothing personal. I was with him for over 30 years. I knew his parents and, man. I feel for him. I always have. [hence the 30 years] But I kept demanding he show up in the marriage when his behaviour [not his words] made it clear he wasn't capable. It was gutting when he dropped me but I'm so happy, now, to be away from all that chaos.
This is so pure and honest. You’re asking me to remind myself when in a grandiose part that this isn’t the real me, and allow the difficult parts to come in.
I can’t afford therapy and it’s quite overwhelming :/ these videos all help. I was raised by npd mother and sibling. I have undone so much in order to recognize the narcissism in myself. It’s like it was covert from me and it’s mainly affecting relationships where I try to connect with others but I use them as supply to feel connected to others. So I’m actually very lonely. In my head, it’s like I have conversations with myself before speaking up and adapt to the other person.
This video is wonderful.
It really is helpful to have learned from you that they are empathy impaired. Supply is the empathy they were never modelled as an infant. So simple and gives a way forward for healing our own narcissistic tendencies too. You are a welcome voice of reason.
thank you so much for this video, i'm going through a very difficult phase in a relationship right now (my npd is at fault, unfortunately) and feeling a lot of hate, directed both at myself and the other person. hearing someone speak with so much empathy about what is happening to me helps a lot.
DAMN LOVING THE NEW INTRO
:)
This story made me sad. I have seen mom teaching her young kid to understand words in store. It made me want to cry. According to my mother I was very curious and she was getting tired from my co constant flood of questions.
What a great video. This is so helpful. It explains so much with none of the negatives. It's like a scientific point of view. If the stigma can be taken away and the logic be this clear, then I truly feel hope for people to find a road to healing from having npd traits. I wish I had known this before someone I loved and I parted ways. Everyone is a person whose heart and life matters. Who deserve a chance to heal.
I am a new subscriber and am enjoying your channel very much, as both a psychotherapist and a survivor of narcissistic abuse from my mother. It's helping me to integrate professionally and personally. I do not work with clients with high narcissism as it is triggering for me. My clients are more on the codependent side of the spectrum. Dr Ramani's channel has been very helpful, and a balance of humanity for folks with NPD feels necessary. But the abuse experienced is very difficult and sometimes devastating.
Thanks for watching, and glad to know you are enjoying the channel.
Thank you, very good❤
Thank you for all your work and for being a loving voice for the most despised.
Lovely.
This is fantastic information, thankyou 😊
Glad it was helpful!
I was abused by my caregivers and when they said what I should want I accepted their choices so they would like me. My sister was into drawing, my mom was into writing, my brother was into cars. I am more skilled in all of these but they were never my hobbies. It didn’t work, either.
This is such a healing video! Thank you!
You are very welcome!
This was a really good presentation of the dynamics that occur within the self. NPD wasn't a thing when I started therapy a bazillionteen years ago, but I certainly recognize my own similar internal struggles and victory's.
At times it felt like some of the symptoms associated with BPD. Perhaps underlining Otto Kernberg's theories on narcissism being a defence against BPO.
It’s such an eye-opening and helpful video. Dear Dr. Ettensohn, I send a huge thank to you from the another part of the world. Unfortunately, here there are no specialists in the field of NPD, so we have to cope on our own. And in the ocean of videos about narcissism, where everyone only exacerbates hatred, panic, you and a few other people offer at least some hope.
I’d also like ask you to make the following video about the possibility of developing empathy and the possibility of building healthy relationships. Maybe in your practice there are observations where people were able to develop empathy and build relationships.
God bless you, sir!
I had only a vague idea about the core of grandiose vs vulnerable states, but this explained it perfectly, thank you! It also spells out the symbiosis between the two and why one doesn't exist without the other, imo.
Could you make a video about "mirroring"?
I think a video about mirroring is a great suggestion. :)
@@healnpd Thank you!
I really appreciate that this channel doesn't just explain the issue but also gives advice on how to deal with it. 🙏
Hi Dr. Ettensohn, this video was very helpful, thank you. I’ve begun to have a few experiences recently of seeing both the good and bad at the same time. It is a relief.
I do have a question / suggestion for a future video; I’m curious about what the traits of entitlement, arrogance, self - centredness and vanity that you mentioned as part of the grandiose state in a previous video, are doing for me? I’m beginning to see, if I think in terms of ‘parts’, how my narcissistic parts jump in to protect vulnerable or shame - filled parts when I feel threatened or that I’m likely to be humiliated. So I see these traits as having an adaptive purpose, but I’m just curious if you could shed some light on why these traits specifically are part of the narcissistic armour and how they work to protect us? Thank you so much for all the information and education. 🙏
That’s a fantastic video suggestion! Also, I’m glad that you are experiencing some relief. Being a person-in-pieces is so difficult. Holding the good and the bad together at the same time does represent a kind of loss. We lose the high highs of identification with the grandiose self. But it’s the price we pay for increased stability and the ability to have sustainable relationships. Keep up the good work! :)
Hi again, I just wanted to come back and share another request/ suggestion for a video that I’ve been thinking of.
I’m feeling bereft-but-in-a-good-way at the moment and I’m wondering if this is the grief that you spoke about in another video.
I can’t quite put a name on it, but it feels like a letting go. An albeit painful but necessary letting go. I wonder if you could speak a little bit more about the grief you talked about in that earlier video and how it happens, what it is, what it’s a signifier of etc, why it’s a necessary stage to go through?
That would really hit home right now. Also, thank you for doing the q and a with the Nameless Narcissist. I got a lot from it and it felt nice to just ‘be’ with you both over the course of such a long video - it can be such a lonely journey at times!
Looking forward to more videos 😊
Brilliantly explained! Good luck to you and to the people you're trying to help.
Love this..plz continue to make these videos
Do you think you could do a vid on healthy vs. pathological narcissism? I have an unpopular take on it it seems and I'm curious what you would think of it
Sounds intriguing…
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Absolutely AMAZING video. Thank you
Thank you
This is incredibly clear and helpful
To both the Therapist in me & the Person that i am.
This is brilliant 👏 I was diagnosed with npd many years ago but later was told I no longer meet the criteria anymore for npd but unfortunately I'll always struggle with traits of it
Congrats on your personal work and recovery .
What do you define as narcissistic traits? I find there isn't a clear delineation.
I am in awe!
Your compassion is infectious. Thank you. I have a question: is it possible for a person with high narcissism to notice it in themselves without having anyone point it out?
I am so happy I found your channel! This is a very informative video!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you very much for this episode, it reflects a lot of my experiences.
You are welcome. :) Thanks for watching.
Amazing thank you
Both Complex PTSD & NPD, describe me and my 50 years on this planet. The splitting off is absolutely how I’ve survived. It also is why I have no real sense of self. Where do I go for help with this? Other than you, I’ve never heard anyone describe NPD where we are mentally ill and need love. I don’t know where to go other then listen to your podcast.
Thank u seriously
Thank you, as always
You're very welcome. :)
Nice music on your channel.
I'd love some lessons for me - someone who was once drawn to narcissists, now chronically single through fear. Understanding myself, which is likely anxious attachment, fawning, etc
God bless you for being non-judgmental and non emotional. Just facts
Just reading your comment here on the work of Alice Milller. I am not a narcissist, but an empath. It frustrates me no end when people dismiss the empath term, because we do exist. We are not normal. I absorb other people's feelings and feel them very strongly. These feelings are often completely alien to me. It's not a case of, oh they feel sad, so I feel sad, which is normal empathy. It is as though the other person's feelings transfer into me -- I am in their head.
My father is a narcissist, and I've had romantic relationships with more than one narcissist. I have subconsciously suspected for a long time, and now repeatedly read the same theory --- narcissists are unevolved empaths. That is why they retain high sensitivity, and can read others so well. I suspect that narcissists also absorb the feelings of others, and so often chase supply to feel 'better energy' than their inner void permits. Thoughts?
I would say that narcissists are empaths who have sustained a critical wound to their developing self.
@@healnpd Thank you. I genuinely believe this to be the case. I think narcissists and empaths are drawn to each other as they see their shadow selves in one another.
@Threetwo One If you look at the history of medicine, both physical and psychological, many conditions or states of being weren't officially labelled until very late in the day. I'd honestly like to be a 'normal' but I'm not. When I've asked others if they are constantly feeling other people's emotions, they don't know what I'm talking about. Most empaths go through life constantly being labelled as "different" but never understanding why.
The narcissists I know perhaps can't read people well as such, but they can certainly hone in on other people's weaknesses. High cognitive empathy.
@Threetwo One Little Shaman theorises that narcissists are unevolved empaths. And Kim Saeed.
th-cam.com/video/QQrzrUfijDw/w-d-xo.html
My mother never praised me but according to my sister constantly bragged about my accomplishments on the phone with relatives. Now I can't enjoy any attention and my sister has slight inferiority complex. Even I never tried to scape goat her and love her very much but I didn't know how to show it because it was not what our parents did.
Wow, thank you
I truly connected to this video. I’m a big fan of you. I can hope that you are turning your notes into book.
Thanks for letting me know!
Thank you so much for this touching and very informative video ♥
Glad it was helpful!
excellent, all of it.
Thanks ☺️
Thank you soo much!!!!
You are very welcome. :)
Dr. Ettensohn, I am confused about something. I fit almost all of the factors of NPD based on the DSM, except empathy. I think I have empathy for others since I try to treat others with respect and consideration, yet it seems I piss everyone off because despite my efforts and I'm a universally hated person that gets treated horribly in response. So is it possible for a person with NPD to be empathetic yet still be an asshole to others for this or that reason, even reasons that aren't entirely their fault? I try, but I still get treated horribly like I'm purposely more malicious.
Seems so, all of the traits are on a spectrum
Hi Mouse Overlord - From a strictly technical, diagnostic perspective, it is entirely possible to meet the DSM criteria for NPD without having low empathy. I don’t put much stock in the DSM model, but we are all stuck with it for now. From a clinical perspective, I think people high in pathological narcissism can also have high levels of interpersonal sensitivity. Alice Miller actually writes about this in The Drama of the Gifted Child. The “giftedness” of which she speaks is sensitivity to the internal states of other people. Pop psychology calls such individuals ‘empaths.’ The basic idea is that a person with this sensitivity is more vulnerable to being used by the parent as a narcissistic object, because an unusually empathic child is more likely to sense the needs and wishes of the parent and attempt to conform to them. Under the right conditions, this might occur at the expense of the child’s connection with their authentic self. The outcome might be something like a person with a wounded self, who is stuck seeking external validation from others (like they did from their parent or caregiver as a child), and who remains very sensitive to the internal states of others. The ongoing need for validation (aka ‘narcissistic supply’) is a kind of self-centeredness that can be off-putting in relationships. This “empathic narcissist” would tend to form relationships based in their desire/need to please others in order to gain needed reassurance/approval.
As adults child of both parents with different flavors of NPD I can say sympathy to them is detrimental to my own recovery from life long NPF abuse because simpaty to them gives them buttons to push and creates more opportunities for further emotional abuse. I still keep with them in contact and support them but my only choice to do so in safe matter is to be in Inner Adult state and be all business like.
Thank you for this video, Dr. Ettensohn. May I ask you, if you think that it is possible for a narcissist to develop at least little empathy through therapy? And to develop positive feelings which don't have to do with grandiosity? Or is it something that a narcissist cannot develop, because it's just how we are wired? Thank you again.
@tizio-v7c - Yes, I think both are possible.
Thank you so much for sharing your excellent understanding with us! Incredible work! You've filled in SO many blanks.
I think this is pretty usefull for BPD too.
Yes. BPD and NPD are similar.
Great content. How do you best advice someone to look for help but you had taken distance because you have perceived multiple times these traits and don't know how to approach the conversation?
I'm asking because I'm not sure whether they will understand or take it the other way (which I think will most likely happen and hurt at first).
Thanks
Dr. Ettonsohn, how does defensiveness play into NPD? I have a loved one who had a very troubled childhood and it is almost impossible to have a normal conversation with them without interruption and defensiveness. It can be over the most innocuous things and it feels so invalidating and doesn't allow for any level of closeness. I wondered if you could speak into how defensiveness (especially in conversations) plays out in NPD or functioning in this range. I very much appreciate your compassionate lens on NPD. I don't really feel my loved one is trying to harm, but rather not be harmed because of the past traumas.
When i was eight i painted a picture concisting of shards. My foster mom sat on the phone and i sat beside her. She commended the picture, but i have recently come to think the picture was in fact a self portrait. How do a person know if they are narcissistic? Does the person with npd have an inner narrative?
I am very interested on your content i want to srudy psycologic and treat cluster b , this is one of the few sources where they are not demonise i do recognise that after my experience with this right after i was in very unlogical mind set to demonise and think they are "pure evil " but now i have a more compassionate point of view
I am a 40 year old divorcee with a 14 year old son. I recently realized about my relationship patterns, codependency and need for clinging to narcassist relationships. I also realize how I projected my insecurities, sadness and anger on my son when I was literally unhealed. I am currently working consciously over me and my son. I usually do what u said in toddler example of parenting style. My question is that I am observing some narcissistic triats in my son. Is personality developed at 14 year and will conscious unconditional love heal him too
The foundations of personality are laid when we are very young. By adolescence, the task is more about developing identity. That being said, it is never too late to express unconditional love for someone.
It sounds like your son would benefit well from counseling, the sooner the better. If it's NPD, it's entrenched, but early treatment can lesson his suffering and give him a much better chance at being able to relationship bond. I've heard the term "narcissistic fleas". If his dad or a father figure had narcissism, he could just have traits/fleas, and that would be a bigger relief and easier to treat.
@Sainte Jeanne d'Arc Thank u so much for ur valuable insights. Yes his father is having covert narcassist traits. We are divorced now. I have completely let go of the past and feel compassionate for my ex hubby. I'll go for the therapy soon. Hopefully will get a good therapist in India.
@@nishabhagat16 You're welcome. I'm just watching Mental Healness, a self aware narcissist in counseling for years. He's talking about narcissistic fleas near the end of this video, w/ his usual humour and flair. Let's hope it's more that for your son. I'll shoot the title, since links often don't go through, but can try to link in the next reply: Can 2 #narcissists be in a relationship? What happens when two narcissists are in a relationship?
th-cam.com/video/j-BscDhv7pc/w-d-xo.html
So how do you avoid from being overwhelmed with the feelings of shame, anger, etc.? I've been close to them since I was diagnosed and the grandiose phantasies became uncredible, but It didn't get any better making social interactions under Low self esteem unbearable
Talk about integration of the shadow next
I also have some splitting and fragmented personality
I don't think I'm a narcissist as far as I know (if I would think I am, then be it)
Now I think that I have a tendency to split other people too.
My mom started being untrustworthy since I hit puberty though. So I don't know what to think of it
Is the grandiose self also related to the fantasy life they live in?
What would drive someone to reject therapy and angrily insist they are not broken and don’t need any help fixing, when it’s clear from their behavior that they do need help? Is the aversion to therapy related to them splitting off the bad parts of the self and not wanting to face them?
Im now after long way of therapy stragling with selfagression , i dont now how to hadle....
Is it possible for NPD person in therapy to improve their behavior toward others in basic ways, while they continue in therapy? For example, to learn to go in their room when they are triggered instead of lashing out? It is said that NPD takes many years of therapy just to move the needle a little bit. I think if they could improve at the behavioral level right away, it would help them to continue to learn what brings results. Have you had success with this?
Treatment effectiveness is highly contingent on the individual. Most people who seek out treatment for pathological narcissism are motivated because they are experiencing dysphoric symptoms that distress them. It is unusual for someone highly ensconced in ego-syntonic grandiose defenses to seek treatment, much less stick around long enough to benefit from it.
How much success have you had permanently changing narcissists. Please cite sources.
I don’t change anyone. Therapy is a dialogue that invites self-reflection and personal growth. Such growth occurs gradually and it is always due to the patient’s efforts, not mine.
I cite specific sources used for my videos, but I don’t treat these videos like I do academic papers (where I cite everything). You can find sources that inform much of my work in my doctoral dissertation, in my book, in the descriptions for the first two videos in this channel (What is narcissism parts 1 and 2), in my video “How is NPD Treated?”, and scattered throughout the other videos on my channel.
Is it possible for anyone to hiod on to a notion of good self to the point where they are actually good ?
Let me tell you a slightly different story. Child is in mother's womb feels like the God, talking about grand delusion. It is alone and is self sufficient. It gets born and losses all its godness and goodness, which is serious blow to his self image. Now it needs some one to satisfy it needs. It falls from heavens to earth. Which triggers its initial default narcissism. Behold there is another object which is the God because it can supply its needs. It love bombs it with shared positive affect and if it gets back positive response it saved. It can idolize it and merge with it. Later it creates new god inside of it modeled after his care provider and over time it will start slow separation process while retaining his new god Inner Parent which overtime takes over responsibility to regulate emotions and provide self mirroring. What happens if mother doesn't smile in return? It still idolize it at firs, merge with it. But she doesn't provide warmth, emotional regulation and sufficient model for good enough Inner Parent. She gets demonized and ejected from its internal family system. Which it later manages to split in order get some care even if his mother is bad. It stains in fallen god state with bad self-image. It grows up and when we grow up we try to restore his goodness and goodness through false self while recreation his or her first social interaction with other social partners. And it repeats original pattern. Idiolizition, merger, demonization and utilization. It can't get gain his properly working Inner Parent that way. And partner experience first something like unconditional love from her or his parent and being rejected after forms strong trauma bond end emotional dependents. We all get born as narcs but good enough mother or care provider helps us to safely outgrow this state and become balanced, self and coregulating adult with properly developed personality. And now imagine an adult which is stack in his newborn personality development stage in terms of Inner Child with full intelligence of grown up adult aka Inner Adult and still trying to go recover from unsuccessful merger, good enough Inner Parent imprinting and proper separation. It is literally stack in hell on earth fallen from heavens God state who is damned to go through cycles of idealization, merger, demonization, rejection and utilization of others. It can't self regulate and can't coregulat his emotions. It only can inflate his or her false image and hide his terrified to death inner child.
6:50 John Gottman's research at the University of Washington is where this number of 30% comes from.
As well from the "Rat Whisperer". I don't remember his name.
Saying that if two rats were to engage in play and one rat one more than 30% the other at would discontinue playing with them.
🎯
Do you really believe this? I see some of what you're saying, but the rest combined seems out of place?
Is everyone narcissistic?
Has everyone not endured a variation of that core realtional authenticity/attachment trauma?
Is that not essentialy just like a description of the basic conflict of psychoanalysis?
I have rthese unacceptable drives and impulses, they are not socially acceptable, we repres and ignore into the unconcious forming a pathological self which essentially problematically compensates for itself to fit in and adapt to it's environment
You are correct that in a way I am describing a fundamental aspect of the Object Relations school of psychoanalytic theory. But I am not simply describing a basic conflict that would apply to everyone. Narcissism exists on a spectrum from healthy to pathological and personality-disordered. We all must weather many of the storms discussed in my videos and the literature. That being said, the struggles/traumas are more severe for some. Those with the right mix of temperament and facilitative/supportive early care environment are able move beyond the conflicts I am describing in this video to develop integrated self images that can hold opposing subjective valances simultaneously.
Object Relations theory posits that everyone must navigate to the depressive position, but on the way there we utilize the paranoid-schizoid position. This is a way of perceiving in which the separations between self and others are not stable and in which opposing subjective states cannot be tolerated. The paranoid-schizoid position is thought to underlie borderline phenomena, causing things like splitting, projection, and projective identification. All borderline phenomena involve splits between subjectively incompatible aspects of self experience. For many individuals with BPD, the split is between a self experienced as strong and independent, and one experienced as weak and enmeshed with others. In NPD, the split is between a part of the self that holds humiliated, ashamed, enraged, and envious self images, and one that holds grandiose self images. The sorts of relational traumas contributing to these characteristic splits in the self would be similar in some ways and distinct in others.
I am not talking about the basic neurotic conflicts typically associated with Freud or Ego Psychology. The sorts of conflicts I am discussing have to do with primitive emotional states that are handled through regressed, reality-distorting mechanisms rather than the more mature mechanisms of repression, etc. These conflicts make it impossible to think, feel, and perceive in an integrated or stable way.
@@healnpd super helpful, alot to think about. appreciate your time and effort.
I wish I'd known how to mirror my children's emotions better when they were young. I only learned the importance of it when they were young teens and then I started to be more conscious of validating their emotions, so it's not that I didn't validate their emotions but I know the formative years are more important. my teenage son who has autism is often extremely angry with me but can't say why. How do you validate that? Should you? He told me I was a b i t c h - in a whatsapp so I thumbed it and said ''but not a doormat''. Then I asked him WHY am I a b i t c h? - no response. I feel like I see this from a few different directions.
One person said: "if a person is narcissistic, all people are narcissists". Does anyone know who said this?
i dont agree with the concept that mental health is achieved thru realizing that people are both good and bad.... i think all our true authentic selves and essences are actually all good.... and thinking that good can somehow be part of bad and vice versa is logical fallacy and impossible and will only lead to more narcissism and resentment .... to accept that everyone has bad in them is truly not the way...we all need feelings of 100% goodness and purity and eternal goodness and purity which is invisible and fills the heart with purity and joy.... we need that hi every single day....
this is not a correct concept... it may look sort of ok or good in theory or on paper, but the reality of it does not produce good mental health...
'Pure' goodness, 'eternal' goodness, etc. are religious, spiritual, and philosophical concepts. From a psychological perspective, the ability to hold the parts of ourselves and others that are 'good' together with the parts that are 'bad' is perhaps the most important hallmark of emotional maturity and perceptual integration. It is necessary in order to have balanced, stable relationships with both ourselves and others. The ability to love, to mourn, and to feel guilt are all accomplished through whole object relationships - integrated representations of ourselves and others that do not defensively separate the 'bad' experiences, feelings, and associations from the good experiences, feelings, and associations. People who are unable to do this are subject to splitting, which is a reality-distorting defense mechanism that prevents realistic, mature appraisal of relational experiences. All good experience is touched with 'bad' experience - even if it is only the implicit realization of the impermanence of that good experience. There is no logical fallacy involved, because human psychology is capable of holding complex, integrated, ambivalent representations of objects.
I think your channel is good. But meant more for the actual narcissist. But if you're a victim. You have to just get away.
And I think that talking about pathological narcissism in terms of “victims” and “perpetrators” does not do any good to anybody whatsoever.
It only contributes to the stigmatisation and vilification of a mental disorder.
😎
This is the problem I have with psychologists , they think it’s all psychological whereas there are definite biological markers for narcissism
@chxwv - It’s easy to err on either side. Bio-markers are a bit of a chicken-egg scenario, but then again…so is the psychology. I certainly don’t think everything is psychological, but also recognize that our ability to understand the biology of complex phenomena like personality is in its infancy. There are relatively few meaningful things one could say about the biology of NPD outside of very broad statements that are also often true for other disorders as well. But if you are aware of more specific biological markers/antecedents for NPD please share. I’m sure many would find it helpful (myself included).
@@healnpd I’m not suggesting to err on any side , I just wanted to give a different perspective , as I don’t think you mentioned that there are biological mechanisms or at least suspected biological etiologies . Hard to give you exact reference as I have read research and attended conferences on this topic for years , but I’m sure you can google and find oxidative stress theory for example . My point is it may not be all that simple , just psychological . I also have serious reservations when people talk about attachment theories in this regard . I do agree with you , we are in the very basic stage of trying to find out what is /are the causes, leave alone effective treatments . I also very strongly feel/believe that narcissists who actually seek treatment are really not narcissists of any significance . The only setting one may actually encounter a serious narcissist is forensic setting . Reason I say that is that a true narcissist never thinks , sincerely , that there is something wrong with him /her. So if they are seeking treatment either they are not narcissists or the purpose of therapy is not really to get help to overcome it . th-cam.com/users/shortsjY78jVGtxPg?feature=share
Now I'm first! Lol. (Private Joke 😁)
People who have these issues should not have children they sound absolutely delusional . I kept telling my ex his mother drove him to insanity as a child.
I wonder if its nature or nuture.
for me its hilarious u even say good enough parenting cus majority of ppl are not good enough parents.