15 SIGNS QUIET BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER | DR. KIM SAGE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
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Having quiet BPD is torture. It's like constantly hurting yourself inside but putting a smile on the outside.
So true, it’s literal hell
I do this to, to myself & l am 57
How did you all get help?
none of the BPD women I have met, would ever admit there were anything wrong with them , the problem is everybody else
It's the victims I feel sorry for
Having met several people with quiet BPD through group therapy, I have to say, they're some of the most wonderful people. The levels of empathy and sensitivity within them, lead them to be beautiful souls. Always sharp and witty. There are blessings that come with QBPD.
This sounds
like my wife. She was diagnosed with BPD about 11 years ago. I came to recognise that she has CPTSD. Sadly, after 10 1/2 years of marriage. She left. about a month ago. She was cutting almost everyone out of her life. she was deeply wounded. I sure hope she returns. She is a great blessing. She was having trouble with emotional control, after taking some medication for acid reflux.
@theodoreturner5567 so sorry to hear that. It's almost impossible not to take that personally. But, the voice that comes with CPTSD tells you to trust nobody and detach from everyone. You have a constant battle going on in your head about rational decisions. I love my wife and friends. But, wish I had the strength just to walk away and be on my own. Its all about trying to avoid triggers.
Thank you!
Thank you were much, made my month.
I had a friend that I've known for 55+ years. She abandoned our "friendship" several times over the years. Finally put alot of distance in my soul from this person. 😊
This is a sloooow,killer..... I'm fighting this 24/7,has been for many years. And I'm 48 ... Often just feel like I want to sleep,and never wake up again...
it's treatable
also watch moon phases (no joke)
Hang on there . I live with this disorder suffered horribly pushed everyone away I still alone but I’m okay now finally at 62 .
I feel you, that's what I always feel, never wake up again 😢
I have a friend with cPTSD and BPD that feels the same. She also has severe AUD. I'm hoping this resides bc no one asked for this.
I’m proof it does loosen its grip , I live with ptsd and adhd , I was older when I got these diagnosis . I didn’t learn to read or write until I was 50 yrs old .
Somehow , I finished school and went on to college where I graduated there too . Not sure how I managed but I did it .
In my later 40 s I might up with a sexual assault counsellor and that’s where my healing began it was hard work lots of crying ,pushing her away then begging her with my life not to leave . She stuck through and saw me through to a much better place . I still live a very isolated life but I’m here to talk about it . Feel free to ask me questions . I know the pain very well .
Timestamps ⏰
15 signs of Quiet BPD:
1.) 3:05 - Internal Overcontrol
2.) 4:01 - Mood/Emotional Relational Instability
3.) 4:48 - Withdrawal/Isolation
4.) 5:53 - Idealization/Devaluation
5.) 6:26 - Abandonment Fears
6.) 6:41 - Self-blame
7.) 6:53 - Internalized Anger
8.) 7:34 - Mood/Behavioral Instability
9.) 8:03 - Fears of Rejection
10.) 8:19 - Sensitive/Hypervigilant
11.) 8:50 - Numbing and Emptiness
12.) 9:03 - Stress-induced Dissociation
13.) 9:17 - Susceptibility to Shame Spirals
14.) 9:23 - Internalized Guilt and Worthlessness
15.) 9:53 - Internalized Suffering
9:58 - Overlapping of BPD/CPTSD
Treatments:
12:42 - DBT
13:14 - Mentalization-based Therapy
Parents undiagnosed with Quiet BPD:
15:16 - Sensitive & Easily Wounded
Whew!!! 🥵
Thank you!!
You counted that out on your fingers??!!
I'm the same, if you hadn't done the timestamps, I would have done it. Also, dont know if it was mentioned, the 4 subtypes of which the quiet borderline is one subtype was invented by Theodore Millon. see here: Personality disorders in modern life pp.483 - 488 www.turkpsikiyatri.org/arsiv/personality.disorders.millon.pdf
Also, I'm really taken with how Prof. Frank Yeomans breaks down the 9 criteria into 4 areas of difficulty, gives a better way to think about BPD:
1. Emotions
2. interpersonal relationships
3. Behaviours
4 Sense of self
Thanks a lot!
Thank you very much!!
A way that I have understood my disorder is that as a woman, I was born with innocence like all of us, but was not protected as a child by my parents, in fact exposed to awful things and neglected, which became my reality. Being vulnerable led others to take advantage of me without knowing why. That topped with outright abuse and abandonment from an entire family, spouse who doesn't give as he should, taking on the difficult role of constant caretaking, people who don't believe in caring and love anymore of thy neighbor, realistically being on the verge of poverty and homelessness if I don't accept reality and past trauma has created a cocktail of resentment and anger. Wouldn't anyone fee the same if they went through this?
To me this is also more like a normal reaction to how we were treated and what happened to us. Its logical. How could we have developed differently? And then we are being treated and seen for those results. Its a life sentence in my opinion. Never met a therapist strong enough and sharp enough who could handle it.
YES
Yes, they absolutely would ❤
Yes. I relate. ❤
I think the unfortunate part is...that we take those conditioned patterns, core wounds, and subsequently form cognitive distortions, negativity bias, confirmation bias, but have blindness to when we are looking through those lenses. We then act in self sabotaging ways, through self abandonment and self betrayal.
We have to learn to hold space for, process, our feelings (with having learned emotional regulation before, and daily, to keep from setting ourselves totally off), and attend to ourselves in the way we needed. We need to drop the fantasy of someone rescuing us. We need to rescue ourselves. It's the wounded inner child that expects someone to come care for us. Unfortunately, this causes us to come across with wanting, needy energy, which will attract others who also haven't resolved their own trauma...and it doesn't go well.
We have to absolutely reset our nervous system, not just learn the cognitive theories.
It is possible. A lot of work.
It helps us to remove some of the distortion, and we can approach communication, regarding needs and boundaries, cleanly (honestly, straightforward, with no passive aggressiveness) and soberly (emotionally regulated, with no angry rant).
When we can show up for ourselves, have our own back, communicate in ways that are empowering, it is life changing.
Quiet BPD definitely sounds more like me despite the generic diagnosis, especially as I age. It's always been an internal thing for me. I've been operating almost exclusively on fear and shame since childhood, and everything is affected by that.
I have a friend like this with cPTSD and BPD as well. I hope you heal. 🌸
BPD IS cPTSD. It's just been given a personality "disorder" label. Start researching and healing complex PTSD
@@rhiannonchaffer2588 I have both diagnoses, so that's news to me. Honestly, it just seems that way because there's so much layover between symptoms. They can be difficult to tell the difference. Not the same, however.
I'm a quiet borderline in recession. I realized my fear of abandonment was actually me abandoning "myself" for others. I've come a long way though but this condition is treatable and there is hope!
There is no recession
Mary, Can you tell me a little more about this fear of “abandoning of yourself” for others? Is it almost like people pleasing?
Well done I've been in therapy for 15 years myself for my own challenges with my family. This stuff does not get better. If we don't do the work. ultimately, it wasn't my fault that it happened to me but I'm responsible for treating it.
That's a great realization. Really matches my experience, too!
@@Bucephalus84 There is. And out of all the personality disorders BPD is the most treatable. You have to get off your bum and put the work in though. And that work can be very painful and take a long time. But its worth it.
In my experience a quiet borderline can hide their condition from almost anyone, even someone they’re in a relationship with! However given time they will show themselves ( the true broken person) to a close partner but still fool everyone else.
This just happened to me. finally seeing the broken parts of myself reflected off another and it’s terrifying. Like they’re the only person I can’t hide it all from..
Was diagnosed with BPD when I was 21 and all of that seems to make a lot of sense. The hardest part for me is the cutting people off at the slightest (most of the times perceived, not real) hint of abandonment. I become closed off, cold, but rageful on the inside...Then this uptight mood lasts hours, days even.
Did you ever cut people off because you felt they ‘wronged’ you or didn’t ‘value’ you? I’ve cut people off because I felt like they did something horrendous and I’ve just stopped talking to them cold turkey. I literally can’t see if it’s me or them
Felt
Honest question….for the partner that has this happen to them and trying to understand/consider whether or not they feel safe staying with their bpd partner who does this….would you say that what you feel those two days is understood by you as real or do you somewhere in your mind know you love that person and you just need to ride the wave of this emotion? My partner is not diagnosed but the bpd is pretty obvious and he has a lot of self awareness, 5yrs of therapy, 1 year of DBT and did amazing detailed homework and practice all before I even dated him. His therapist said he’s her hardest working client and favorite client. He is an incredible man and his episodes are infrequent due to all the hard work he has done, but as his partner, I’m struggling to understand his true feelings. He corrects it after the fact and seems extremely genuine and even explains that he knows the episodes come and he can’t trust his feelings. But to me, even if he comes back, it pains me that he might actually be feeling real anger and hate toward me in his heart as it seems someone who truly loves you couldn’t feel that way so easily. Is it the same as if a non bpd person can have moments of weakness from being tired and get irritable/upset but take a nap and realize whoah I was totally out of line?….but like x100 for the bpd person? Because to me that is something I can deal with, but not knowing if it’s a genuine love and he could easily actually really hate me and believe it’s real seems a lot different and that I don’t want to be put through.
Everybody does leave eventually, so I prepare myself for it, sometimes cutting them off before they can abandon me. That way I protect myself. And I don't like other people getting too close either. If they get close then they can abandon me and hurt me. So I lead a pretty lonely life. I'm sure the neighbours think I'm weird being alone all the time and not making any friends. My dog is great company though.
I have now lost everyone except my child, and part of me prepares for the day I lose my child as well. When my son was thirteen, he bought me a mood ring, because my moods were extreme rapid and unpredictable. It was a nice way for him to tell me it was difficult for him. It was hard when he moved out, as it was so sudden. I missed him more than I ever expected, but he calls me at least once a week. ❤
I think addiction and BPD go hand in hand because it’s such an issue of impulsivity, black and white, how one feels in each moment which is so fleeting
"A collision of intergenerational trauma, our genetics & our environment shaping our childhood brains as we are developing"- GENIUS!
I am a mother who has recently been diagnosed with quiet bpd. i am afraid to tell ANYBODY this diagnosis as I fear the stigma attached to 'normal bpd'. I fearing being labelled as a bad mother, and being told that I am going to scar them for life. I care for the people I love VERY well and I am hyper aware of my actions especially around my kids, I have been through so much therapy I like to think I am self aware enough to stop my disorder from affecting my kids.
Caring about myself is a different story, it's a constant self hate/guilt spiral. I'm working on it, but it is at a constant 7-10 emotional pain scale almost every day.
Thank you for bringing this side of BPD for light ❤
I’m a momma to four boys and I feel every single word you typed. I feel like the spiraling on my own shame is getting worse- it’s a lonely and scary place to be. Know you’re not alone 💜
I was labelled borderline and had my daughter taken away because of it.
You're lucky; I haven't seen her since she was 3.
I hate to say this, but don’t tell anyone except a mental health professional.
@@msmltvcktlomg, I agree and commented not to tell a soul! Parents think they have rights, but terrible things can happen. And I’m sorry this happened to you. ❤
I was diagnosed with BPD at age 50 and have been in therapy for 3 years. I have made progress, but I still hurt myself and still go in circles and still fear abandonment. The most important thing for me right now is fully accept that I am BPD and treat myself with the compassion I never received as a child. Having a therapist experienced with BPD is crucial as she has shown me consistent support and compassion over the last 3 years. I have learned by example from my therapist to be nice to myself and be mindful that I need to treat myself and my BPD brain with the utmost care. I have worked hard to arranged my entire life to accommodate the fact my brain does not work normally. Exercise, adequate sleep, proper diet are essential as well as being a responsible adult in terms of finances and work ethic. I don't think I will ever be normal, but I think I can continue to make progess as long as I continually work on my disorder and never forget my brain doesn't work normally. I hurt myself the most when I try to pretend I am normal.
Maybe don’t worry too much about “normal”! and the perhaps resulting discomfort in being distant from it. Instead it’s enough to navigate the best you can to being healthy in yourself.
A lot of "I's" here. Your disorder is also harmful to others. The reason I say this is because my personal experience. I have ben very much hurt by a BPD persons. I never met one who in fact knew they had the disorder, and was therefore well aware that it also involves hurting others. In other words: people who know they have bpd are too little aware what it does to others. I know, this is my frustration and i can seek out help for it.
The primary person I hurt is myself, which then affects others. whatever hurt you have received is a very small part of the hurt that is self inflicted by the person with BPD. @internetgevalletje
Some people learn to scream on the inside when the emotions start flooding.
Absolutely agree. The key for me was the fear of abandonment. For borderlines, this is very real - “Who will look after me?” CPSD wouldn’t even expect that.
Yeah i have that tought many times. But im literally an only child and diagnosed with an auto immune disease...so...i wish sometimes i wont survive my parents. Its complicated...and i know theres something up with me. I acted like an explosive border in my teens then more like a quiet one...but i also have autistic traits. Im so confused. I didnt get any diagnosis from any of the therapists i went to. But now im going after it. I need my mind stable to deal with my weak health
What you said at the end about borderline parents was SOOOO validating, thank you so much 😭 I have mild/quiet bpd and over the years I've come to realise that my Mum most likely has full on bpd, everything you described was spot on. She's incredibly defensive and reactive so I don't think I could ever suggest this to her but it is sad to see how much she suffers. She grew up in the 60s when there was less awareness around mental health so it's maybe never even crossed her mind. All I can do is focus on my own healing. Thanks for the video 💗
My mother is the same. Now that I see the big picture, she is most likely a classic BPD, she would lash out and regret is later, trying to make up for it. I rarely knew what I did wrong. My father is most likely a grandiose narcissist. I have quiet BPD. It's almost a cliche.
@@AssumptionEmptydefinitely cliché
Oh wow. I really relate to this. I was diagnosed years ago with chronic mild depression and generalized anxiety disorder but not this. I have been on this healing journey since for a few decades. It saddens me a bit that I am at this place relating to the content in this yet find it informative. Thank you. I appreciate your content here.
Thank you for sharing this video. I was diagnosed with BPD and PTSD when I was in my 20's. Now, BPD and CPTSD. Sadly, where I live in the Ozark Mountains, there isn't much help available in the form of counseling, etc. So I just try to deal with it on my own. I do isolate A LOT, but at 56 I don't have much of a social life anyway. That seems to be the only way to manage it well. I'm glad I found your videos recently. They're helping me to better understand myself and how to process all that goes on inside my head. Blessings.
Hey Ozark Mountain Girl! Totally understand. Keep working on yourself thru these educational videos! I get where your at. Your location and the struggle. Sending you healing thoughts. YOU got this!
Hi I am treating myself bc 30 years of cbt (talk therapy) hasn't made enough of a difference. DBT is working better! So these videos and DBT for Dummies (lol) has been helpful! Hope you find some systems for relief. Take care!
@@cko8643 Thank you. Blessings to you.
@@BobbiGail Thank you. I hope what you're doing is working for you, too. It's a struggle for sure.
There is something called trauma based cognitive behaviour therapy, i think for ppl with ptsd or traumas that still bleed. You are not alone ❤
THANK YOU!!! Thank you for your empathy and gentle delivery, your soothing voice, and your neutral backgrounds. All of those things disarm my defenses and allow me to hear the content! I have a very supportive team around me (psychiatrist/ therapist/ coaches) and have gone through so many treatment trials - finally getting a BPD diagnosis, but it's been the content on your channel that has allowed me to start looking at myself with COMPASSION and understanding in a way I haven't been able to in the past. Your videos have given me an opportunity to consider new information and digest it when I feel safe. I often bring my thoughts to therapy for further discussion and have been making a lot of progress recently! Thank you so so much for all your efforts in sharing healing and resources!
Thank you so much again for another ‘signs you/they might have’ video. I have CPTSD and BPD and it’s a crushing solitude. However I’m always trying to learn. Your training, studies and videos are inspiring and help me get to tomorrow 🦋
💜
We’re all in this together 🥹😭😭
Makes sense but the bigger issue that no one talks about is the ongoing abuse by the caregiver that induced borderline in the first place. Left alone a person has a chance of figuring it out as they grow into adulthood. But with ongoing quiet abuse, acknowledging that the caregiver probably has npd, bpd and/or aspd, the problems are exponentially greater.
Bpd doesn't always develop because of abuse. It's absolutely commonly developed because of abuse, but not always.
A close friend of mine has this disorder. It can be like walking on eggshells around him. He keeps it all to himself, too. Boundaries are so important in the dynamic. Being an empath, it is easy to feel his pain.
I’ve been diagnosed and treating my OCD and CPTSD for 2 years now. I am just discovering I may identify with quiet BPD. Thank you for this info, it encourages me to maybe see a new provider and discuss this with them. I’ve just felt like regardless of the shadow work I do, healthy routines, and inner child healing/12 step recovery I’ve done I still struggle with many of these symptoms. I appreciate you ❤
You are all loved no matter what happens
Difficult if you are on the receiving end, to say the least.
I’m pretty sure that this is my dad. He never once physically attacked me but he would have somewhat concealed rages that were so intense i was constantly feeling in fear for my life
I really wish the field could move away from calling people names and instead refer to the relational dynamics or the behavior as anyone can possess these qualities. I grew up with a father who was labeled as, not only borderline, but many other diagnosis and it was never helpful. What would have been helpful was to just have professionals observe what they see in him and work with each inter-relational dynamic rather than get him to accept he’s this or that.
I totally agree.
This makes so much sense now. It is truly torture.
Complete Torture! Awful way to go through this life. 😢
@@Lilynite10 I'm here if you need to talk. I'm quickly realizing, maybe the only people who may get you are other BPD people. It's a tortuous existence. Especially when you are waiting to get help because of wait times.
@@quantumlyricist thanks. Yeah might take you up on it. I already did DBT had no impact on me. They changed my diagnosis to C-PTSD & now ADHD too so my mind is literally melted. I’m left with zero friends. So alone I can barely stand up some days. 🥲
@@Lilynite10 Similar position to you. My medicine isn't working, in fact it knocked me into a mood. But seeing a 'specialist' takes a while. Regular practitioner is trying, but they aren't an expert at comorbility stuff with mental health.
@@quantumlyricist yeah co-morbidity is the worst. So hard to heal.
Dr. Kim. You're the best! You always teach from a place of understanding and kindness.
I wouldl love to hear your thoughts on BPD or CPTSD or ADHD or any combo, and spiritual emergencies / spiritual awakenings and psychic experiences.
Here's something strange, at least to me anyway....When I was a teenager, I checked all 9 traits of traditional borderline,misdiagnosed as bipolar (back in early 80s). Now that I'm in my 50s, I'm seeing more CPTSD traits. I no longer have the fear of abandonment, and have learned to transform some of the other traits to actually work FOR me, some are now reading more quite borderline, but not enough to categorize myself as "disordered" anymore. It's almost like the majority of it has fallen away, which I'm VERY happy about! But also confused, because I didn't think cluster B had any hope for recovery. I guess it depends on the person. Yes, I've had multiple types of therapy. ❤
There is a MASSIVE overlap with BPD, CPTSD, and Autism in a venn diagram. I turned out to just be a WILDLY traumatized autistic kid with CPTSD, nothing borderline about me even if I had tendencies and fleas from my mom.
I personally think you probably always had CPTSD and were misdiagnosed for the longest time, which is no wonder as diagnosing was less accurate back in the day and as there is such massive overlap.
I do also think that there is a hope for recovery or at least some alleviation of the symptoms because they're mostly caused by trauma. And if you're able to heal your trauma, you will start to lose symptoms.
I've heard that BPD can actually improve for some people over time to the point that there are no symptoms. In a way that doesn't make sense because it's a personality disorder, after all. Maybe it is a misdiagnosis in cases like yours? Either way, yay!
My older sister was diagnosed with BPD in the 80s and she has never improved, sadly. But she's never had any treatment beyond her initial diagnosis for a s attempt. Our mother mistook the word "borderline" to mean "almost", as in she almost has a personality disorder, so she never got her help. Honestly my mom seems BPD too. I was 9 and saw my sister in the bathroom screaming with messed up wrists. That's when she went away for a month or so.
Can you share which types of therapy were most effective and which concepts helped the most to focus on?
I was misdiagnosed with BPD years ago. There were many inconsistencies with my presentation, particularly that I lack a fear of abandonment and a sense of emptiness. I have since had the diagnosis removed and replaced by confirmed autism and ADHD. This video came up on my feed, so I wanted to revisit BPD. The aha moment I had was when you compared cPTSD with BPD, being that there is a lack of fear of abandonment in cPTSD. I was denied PTSD diagnosis at the original misdiagnosis. I will definitely want to revisit it once the ICD-11 starts being used. My care team isn’t using cPTSD yet. Thank you
I agree with what you said in regards to the stigma surrounding mental health. It's so difficult for everyone to just get down to the topic in a open and truly honestly way. I think it's like this because we can't see the suffering. It's still a hard thing to talk about because we can't tangely grasp it or hold in our hand. Because of this we are able to convince ourselves it's not there and others don't believe in what they can't see. Someone who hasn't experienced a mental collision, they just can't wrap thier head the idea and some of these people are therapists. I used your word, 'collision" because it's very fitting. Thank you for helping me to understand myself better Dr. Sage.
Struggling hard recently as a Quiet Type. The one thing I never seem to share with everyone else is the self idolization. I am a monster not fit for the world, but manage to pretend to be human enough to pass for not. I strive to be the person I pretend I am and act like. But even in remission, I know, I'm a monster and my devaluation of others only rears its head when they try to tell me I'm a good person. Eternal fires of rage burn deep. As deep as the amino acids of my DNA it feels like. It can never die, it can never cool. The one time it did, I was nothing. Sure, no monster to hide and chain away, but not a thinking feeling being anymore. So I let it burn to light my happiness, sorrow, anger, and love. I keep all its damage from those it wants to eat, but without it.....I'm nothing, not even a hollow shell. Its the small variation on the self love / hate spectrum that I hope no one else has to share.
Being told I'm a good human or someone is proud of me for some little thing is joyful though 😮
I’m very tired atm so my effort is lame; reading your comment, it struck me that you write in very much the same beautiful lyrical engaging and clever style as I do when properly writing (not now obvs). Do you think eig skilful with words is a side benefit of QBPD. I do, to protect myself from being too involved or in the moment, I much prefer to write in FB Messenger e.g. Not using the phone. People used to get pussed off at how much I write but when you make it so beautiful they can’t complain and you receive affirmation.when I am writing, is the only time I am laser focused and at peace. Anybody else have this experience?
@@rachelwoolleylamb7017 I've had a love of reading from early childhood. I think I just enjoy the use of language to convey passion and intent. It may be that it is a broad occurrence across a lot of QBPD. That said, I always prefer to express myself via written word over verbal interaction. I have a knack for saying some reasonably horrible things in ways that are comical enough to make the target or person I am talking to laugh when speaking verbally, but it still gets me into a lot of trouble. Writing I at least get to purposefully tone down or lighten my points. [I have a meeting about giving criticism from 'a place of caring' next week as some of the people I supervise feel I am too cruel in my assessment of their not being able to do their jobs.]
I love the wallpaper !
We are all human beings trying to do the best we can with the cards we were given. Not one single human being can be put inside a box, but oh, we are so much more complex and unfortunately spirituality is not addressed in psychiatry.
talk about the stars aligning, i live with quiet BPD and subscribed to your channel earlier TODAY bc of how compassionate you are explaining everything so this video is exactly i need right now. thank you so much for sharing these videos bc it can also be just as confusing for the person living with the disorder
Your content has helped me understand my childhood so much. Thank you.🙏🏻🥺✨
Quiet BPD makes me feel rather lonely all the time because people struggle to really believe how much I’m suffering because most of the time, I seem fine or at least not that bad. I’ve completely given up trying to explain the extent and impact of my suffering. Consequently, I’ve also completely lost any trust that other people will be able to support me through the worst. In turn, this has made me both extremely self-reliant, which is fantastic, and just as lonely, which isn't really my idea of a good quality life.
Your energy is so calming. Thank you for these videos.
BRILLANT CLEAR CONCISE & COMPASSIONATE explanation of BPD & its differences with PTSD!
BPD r oversensitive to rejection & lack self-identity/often mimicking others. But both carry a sense of wounding numbing disassociation & shame spirals triggers & suppressed suffering within. Although PTSD- is not triggered by rejection, they also isolate to remove themselves from social triggers, both have internalized shame/blame
I am now 41 and was diagnosed with depression at 15 till around 8 years ago, a physiologists finally diagnosed me with bpd after only 3 sessions. I didn't want to look it up as it was just another label however my mum is very aware of my needs and is involved I groups online to know/understand more. Finally I read some and was blown away by how accurate they described my inner most feelings however until I watched Ur video I've never felt so understood. Everything down to how I have vowed no more relationships as they cause flare ups and iits kinda worked and yes I self medicate as I know me now( I think ) well I know what makes life easier however I'm of track. CBT didn't work nothing has. This is just me, I can't run or hide I spent years and years in therapy but I'm still stuck like this, I'm not as angry but Iv removed almost any potential for flare ups which in turn has made me even more introverted but bk to your video, thank you. Thank you for validating basically every bit of me and understanding how the label's hurt but I understand there need but Iv never commented before, bet I wish I hadn't now 😅. Thank you for giving me that video link. THANK YOU ❤
I have self diagnosed myself with BPD, and all the providers say it’s complex PTSD. I went through the DSM with my SE therapist yesterday, and only had two symptoms, although experienced other symptoms occasionally. I was diagnosed with OCD yesterday, because of my obsession regarding if I have NPD or BPD. It feels so confusing bc most of these symptoms you listed I experience. I need to learn to trust the people saying it’s complex ptsd given the nuances. ❤
To me, the real benefit in getting a "correct" diagnosis is just having guidance for effective treatment and tools. So, if you learn about and try modalities that can help with BPD, cPTSD, OCD, and whatever other possible diagnoses you might qualify for, you're on the right path even if you never get a "correct" diagnosis. Because the DSM really only looks at symptoms, not causes, and so many mental health symptoms overlap, not every treatment is going to work for every single thing that could cause a similar symptom. Good luck!
Thinking you might find DBT helpful. Marsha Linehan was the developer and has a workbook that I believe you'd love.
@@cindyc hi Cindy, I wasn’t looking for recommendations. I have found IFS and SE to be the most helpful :) thank you though!
There is a massive overlap between CPTSD, Autism, BPD and OCD in a venn Diagram. Just give yourself time friend
@@ericazubris for real?
My Doctor has this!!! Actually he is no longer my doctor. I have seen these symptoms, including passive aggressive behaviour. He also once raged at me over the phone (like a toddler) and actually waited for my reaction. But I didnt "react" so he hung up. It was the most bizzare experience I have ever experienced with anyone let alone a physician/surgeon. I believe there was a trauma bond.
Yikes. That's a new one for me! I've literally never heard anything like this. Talk about unprofessional on his part.
And on the surface, you would think I was just being stoic…
OMG! I didn't do anything to my boyfriend and he broke up with me. 😢
All I told him was that I was busy and we could hang out later that night. However, later that night he broke up with me. When I asked why he said to retaliate against me because I told him I was busy and couldn't hang out till later that night. Wtf? I'm pissed as hell cause he's ALWAYS does this shit. What am I supposed to do? 💔😭
Diagnosing someone with BPD is subjective and can be very damaging to the patient who will then be stigmatized by health professionals. CPTSD is often not recognized as the true diagnosis and can affect treatment and care of patients. They are both similar symptoms.
Trauma is the key factor. Treat childhood trauma.
I'm very curious to hear your opinion on the correlation between BPD and severely insecure attachment styles. More specifically disorganized attachment and BPD. If you've ever talked about this I'd love to read/listen. If not I'd love to see what you have to say! You offer great insight.
I've thought I had quiet bpd for a long time but I started attributing all of the symptoms you mentioned to a disorganized attachment instead because of the complexities.
@@catiee5501does your traits only come out in relationships? Could that mean its only an attachment style thing? Or is your mood up and down from other type of stimuli? Idk if i even make sense. Im trying to understand myself too. ❤
Thank you for being compassionate about this. I watched Dr Phil's pod casts and it really made me angry to the point of hurting myself last night. I lost my father 3 weeks ago and my siblings and mother kept it secret from me. So I'm also dealing with that ontop of my bpd. It all sucks so much. I'm normally a quiet bpd but am feeling I am lashing out at the family who I divorced decades ago because of their disrespect and abuse towards me
The DSM is general. Human beings are individual. Trash the DSM, time for a new diagnostic process.
My mom is borderline/with narcissistic tendencies
I struggle to figure out if I am too or if I have cptsd bc of how she treated me?!?
If you are a narcissist you'd know, from my understanding if you seek help you'll find out... All the best
Thank you for your time and compassion. I may not be able to "get to an office" setting for help, but nevertheless, seek healing from trauma, self-awareness and try to be teachable with a willingness to learn.
I'm thankful for friends and family and mostly G_D. 🕊
Boderliners are not meant to be in relationships, because emotions bring out the worst of those traits.
Thank you for helping me understand myself alittle further I have suffered through this not knowing and have found my way through, somehow. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time, appreciated
Reminds me of a female colleague I worked with long ago. I cut off contact with her about fifteen years ago and see she’s passed. She was a roller coaster of emotions. Eggshell walking is right! I once saw the black eyes and no idea why. She’d go into these childlike trances and behavior and would giggle like a child. She was verbally and physically abusive and saw a few rage fits come out of nowhere. I think she was also meshed with NPD. She was a very angry, emotionally unregulated and actually hostile person. I got the clear impression she’d been abused as a child.
When she said “not even a disorder… someone’s struggle” pulled at something inside. It is a struggle. It’s like wrestling with this goblin, this creature that follows you wherever you go and creates chaos at the very moments you need to be calm and thoughtful. It makes you seem crazy when all you want is calm and normal and can’t find a way there. I would wish this in my worst enemy because this is cruel to those who have it.
insecurity, trust issues, numb i feel now days
Yikes; in one relationship I can say I may have been a quiet borderline/anxious avoidant. Getting on the path out of it meant treating an overall CPTSD. Things have been better since unraveling the root causes and getting into my body more.
BPD for me has always been so obviously visible and loud that I didn't even think a quiet BPD was possible. The more you know..
I have to admit i found a lot of myself in this. Thankfully then you said that there is a lot of overlap with CPTSD. And CPTSD is certainly something that i have developed over some years in my very early childhood. But i was never "diagnosed" with it, altough visting a lot of different therapists. However.. beeing diagnosed with borderline personality disorder does cast a very strong social stigma as well i fell. That in addition to the very real suffering that his causes.
Thank you doctor Sage. I’m trying to figure out and treat myself because I can’t afford to find help. My low income puts me in a category where mental health treatment is stretched far too thin.
I don't think i have BPD, quiet or not, but the part about "cutting someone off quickly" after a perceived hurt (or however you may put it-) definitely is relatable to me. Like a friend seeminf a little annoyed, a minor issue, but it's something that made me completely overreact and end up blocking all contact with them. Thankfully I've made up with them and we still talk, but stuff like that is a big recurring issue for me. :(
either bpd or some attachment style or both to a degree
in bpd people are so scared of abandonment that scan face and on minimal grimas think somebody is sad or angry
and they fear breaking and pain so much they break themselves before that person even give any real reason for this
it's needed to learn trusting again,
like a pessimist to see things realistically not with bias
emotional central is weaker in these conditions so requires more work on self-control and selfawareness
but it's all treatable and trainable
notebook with noting mood scale daily helps
you see patterns and can predict next wave coming
This is by far the most painful experience I’ve ever gone through. I truly wouldn’t wish this illness on my worst enemy. I spend a lot of time thinking about how unlucky I am to have developed bpd and often wish I would have just been born normal. Genetics are terrifying and I sometimes tell myself that I shouldn’t have children because of the chances that they’ll suffer from this condition. The pain I feel is unbearable and I truly don’t know how much more I can take. I feel as if nobody in my life understands me because I’ve never opened up completely to them. But also, why would I subject my friends and loved ones to my horrific and miserable mental state that I feel almost on a daily basis? People get uncomfortable and scared when they hear something that they can’t understand. I can barely even describe the extent of the emotional turmoil going on inside my head. I am truly at war with myself and this battle feels never ending. No wonder they call this mental illness a living hell.
There's so much overlap that I don't understand why everyone goes out of there way to say that they're different. All of the symptoms of borderline can be explained by complex trauma. Judy Herman created CPTSD to replace the labels of BPD, as well as DID, in order to help people understand their own behaviors through the lens of adaptations to an early traumatic environment, rather than an inherent disorder of their personality.
one and the same, ofc trauma related, ofc needs to address causes
but in modern medicine usually causes are last to be addressed
My experiences are quite similar, but I did not develop BPD. Instead, the trauma resulted in CPTSD.
Same
Lost faith with the Qld justice system/lawyers. disregarding all traumatic events endured . victim of assault
I have an American staffy now & he is my shadow. In regards to Our "Rights" we are promised by our government since pre-school age . "guilty "or "not guilty" in the laws of the Justice System , all depends on how much money you have in your purse, bank account. It's been happening for decades, to millions of Victims. and we're all supposed to smile as we bend over and take it up ass, and smile and say dont worry about the lube!!😉
Great video! I really love your very down-to-earth approach!! 😊💓
I always learn something new! Thanks, Dr. Kim!
Beyond confusing. I got a diagnosis of BPD which destroyed my self-esteem, then changed to C-PTSD and now ADHD. I have no idea who I am today at 45 after 6 years of professional help. Nothing has helped me. Absolutely nothing only who I am has been destroyed by labels. I avoid relationships altogether. Been single for 15 years & never date. Literally spend everyday of the week alone. Even Professionals have not a clue. All childhood trauma & when your highly sensitive since a child it basically damages your brain. Thank god I never had kids, wise enough not too but I just survive, exist and I don’t live. Have no friends either so very sad & lonely life. I am tortured internally 24/7. My brain never switches off which is very ADHD. I’m actually at the end of my tether. I tried to emigrate & move to another country to change my life & I ended up having a breakdown & coming home. Nothing I do works. No matter where I move in the world feel the same. Living Hell! 😢
This resonates with me so well! And im currently in treatment and just got diagnosed with cptsd, bipolar and borderline(i might be over diagnosed as my doctor said but better than to be under diagnosed🙈)And for me, most obviously the quite one. Im 33 years old and just now i am confident i understand why i have been acting like i have for all these years. Its like a ton of bricks lifted of me. And one thing also. I can confirm i have felt like a child in the sense of emotional regulation. I have also said to be psychologist "i feel like iam a child. That the hurt child in me are screaming for help" its a very weird feeling
Thank you for a good and informative video🤩🌸
Thank you for your videos and educating us.
Thank you for being here💗
@@DrKimSagethank you for such a clear explanation. What kind of Dr do I need to see? I’m in Fairfax Virginia
I am a quite introverted person that people rarely see expressing how I feel. I'm not very expressive. I dont really feel the need to be more expressive either, its just how I am and I feel very uncomfortable in settings were I am expected to express my self. It stresses me a lot actually. I REALLY hated talking about how I felt with my psychologist when my Borderline was diagnosed. It felt very straining on me and even if getting the diagnose, I was completly drained for weeks after the sessions.
This should be something people generalizing other people should be aware of. The help, is for many of us, also painful.
I don't understand why sooo many therapists have such a limited understanding/knowledge of NPD, BPD, etc and how to diagnos/treat patients with these disorders. I'm neither a therapist nor do I have any formal training/education in psychology. But simply by watching videos and reading books I know the DSM lists 16 personality disorders divided into 3 clusters. There is also a list of traits/behaviors associated with each disorder. The patient must exhibit a certain number of these traits in order to warrant being clinically diagnosed with that disorder (for example, at least 5 out of 9 to be diagnosed with BPD). I understand that there are various subtypes for each disorder, some disorders are more difficult to diagnose, and there are overlapping behaviors that are associated with multiple disorders. But I think most people who have had any type of relationship with someone who has NPD would agree that once you learn about the disorder and the behaviors associated with it, these people are NOT hard to spot! In fact, narcissists (regardless of type) are so consistent in their behaviors it's like they're all reading from the same script. They use exactly the same words, manipulations, and tactics so consistently there's actually a name for it...narcissistic abuse. They rarely seek therapy on their own (because they never think anything is wrong with them) but they do show up in couples' therapy and (typically court-ordered) anger management therapy. Yet when they do it's as if 90% of therapists have never even HEARD of such a thing as NPD, to the point they actually side with the narcissist and participate in the victim shaming/blaming. And how often have people with BPD been misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder, ADHD, and/or PTSD/CPTSD?? I get that therapists specialize in different areas, but you'd think they'd at least be able to recognize the basic signs of each disorder well enough to refer you to someone more qualified.
I think our society is Narcissistic in nature
I believe I had a quiet BLP girlfriend. She was absolutely wonderful for 4 months. She was 66 years old and you would think she would have got life managed better. As a widower, I needed and had lots of time to be with her. It became apparent, there was no way I could convince her that she was a wonderful person, which I perceived her to be. She was pretty, dressed well, clean, a hard worker, but she always belittled herself. With heart break, she moved on to another, as I learned that was her nature. I over heard a conversation with her son on how happy she was with me. But then I heard her son say, "Remember Mom, you are a runner". I couldn't figure out what that meant at the time, but in a few months, I learned
Incredible information- a new insight into a person I was just involved with for the last 8 months. A lot makes sense. It breaks my heart to a witness so much this in this person. You have hit upon many traits / behaviors that I have observed. 💔
10:30 unless your trauma IS abandonment*** it’s frustrating when people act like CPTSD can’t include abandonment fears 😮💨
Wow thank you for this, I would always wonder why I felt extreme shame, emotional dysregulation in intimate relationships, hyper vigilance, feeling as if I will never grow up :( and it can last for a couple weeks. Especially the shame or if something hurt me. it’s like I couldn’t get away from it. I’m glad I finally understand what’s going on.
Thank you for the video. Most of this describes what I've felt most of my life.
This is how I wish I could explain myself but it is me to a tee. So hard to live like this.
This is great info. The whirling dervish as a figurative description, particularly using it to depict chaos, is a bit problematic, particularly if you don't want to contribute to Islamophobia. Sufi Islam is a 700 year-old-branch which origniated from a woman (super interesting story too).
I went for diagnosis but they wouldn't because I'd not ever been arrested or sold my house....honestly. I know I have QBPD. Don't need anyone to diagnose me.
It's more like others dealing with BPD people. Where is the support for BPD people? We're all just something far away.
I have a narcissistic mother and I don't know who I am I don't think I ever have because of her and she sees nothing wrong with that but I'm really fucked up and I really wanna figure out who I am but I just don't know what or how too , I really feel this in me and it's really hard to describe but it's something I have to deal with all the time and around people it's hard because I'm just left with (I don't know) that all i have for myself because i have a manipulative narcissistic mother who just loves what she do
you want to listen to gamergg guy also psychiatrist, search here
I was abused emotionally and physically by sisters who have Borderline Personality. My parents couldn't do a thing about it because they didn't know how to handle them. There wasn't any support in those days and just thought they had bad behaviors. They targeted me constantly right into adulthood. I told them both that from now on I want peaceful distant relationship with them and laid it out that this means, no calls or letters. (This was before emails existed) . And that if we were at family gatherings, I will say hello them only. Well it worked for a few gatherings. They sat there scanning me with an evil eye. I guess they couldn't help themselves, and at family gatherings they would attack me with their words by injecting attacks on conversations I was having with another family member. I spent years in therapy because of the damage . Then finally they were diagnosed. But by then, I had already let them go. The toxicity will never stop and that is why I have moved on. Its sad, but this is the best way to for me to out of danger.
Well this is depressing…whatever version of bpd sounds exhausting for everyone they have as friends or for a partner.
I always felt moper for the quiet borderline diagnosis, but than they changed it in PDD-NOS and this never felt right, because people like me as an empath, sometimes, I am communicative to sharp if I deal with autism people. However once they labeled you it is hard to get out. All autism treatments were unsuccessful. I always have to deal with this moot swings, I can be very angry, mostly because of unfair behavior. Thats why I like the song'' ever changing moods'' from the style council.
this is so helpful, thank you!
BPD is extremely bad when your partner IS alienating and unsupportive as well!!!!
People who make BPDs heroic or sympathetic are dangerous.
Wdym
I have quiet BPD and also CPTSD. My mother had NPD and BPD and also my father was an alcoholic and autistic so there was a ton of trauma in my life. My BPD was a lot more obvious when I was younger but I am almost 40 and have gotten a lot better at hiding it. The only time it is obvious I have BPD is when I get into a romantic relationship and it triggers all my trauma because I usually get I to relationships with men who have NPD which can be really overwhelming for me. I have a lot of close friends and a stable work life. I have also been in recovery for addiction for 15 years and have done a lot of therapy and am very self aware so I believe I have gotten a lot better over the years but still struggle with a TON of shame about having BPD because of the things I have done when splitting on a significant other. I look at my mom and never wanted to be her and sometimes I see I am exactly like her when I get triggered.
This makes me feel like I'll never get better.its a daily stuggle
My girlfriend has many of the symptoms of quiet BPD. She has an almost childlike attitude, she is easily offended, does the splitting thing to me pretty regularly and she has a long history of fear of abandonment. But she also has a lot of fear mixed with what could only be described as paranoia. She'll imagine an entire set of circumstances and then act on those imagined scenarios. She can be very accusatory and she is extremely afraid that I am/will cheat on her. And then she'll ghost me for months. It's really difficult for me, but I can imagine that she is suffering and so I try to be consistent and not judgemental, waiting for her to stabilize (for lack of a better word). I wake up every morning and the first thing I tell myself is that I don't know what is going to happen. I miss her terribly, but I also wonder how long I can do this. I'm really confused/sad/lost.
I guess you don’t get a more consummate mix of trauma and abandonment issues than seeing a friend’s decapitated head sitting on the small of his back, and later having your nation abandon his country in disgrace
🌱🌏💚 Thank you very much for providing the resource of comparing Cptsd & BPD.
Great video thank you. Could there be cross overs of disorders with quiet BP? For example paranoid disorder? What about with fear of intimacy to the extreme level of never going into relationships. Conversations I have had with someone I think who has quiet BPD is difficult to navigate in conversations. It is like walking on egg shells all the time because of there is a differ in opinion, this person makes it obvious they don’t trust you and are then offended. The sensitivity is not in line with reality or the conversation. I know this person is suffering deeply inside but there is no possible way to even hit the surface of this.
Dr. Sage - your videos are helpful
However, you say to not self diagnose
You are correct - the DSM is far from perfect
I always thought that´s normal.... But all good im working on it. im with a psychiatrist.
Great content. Thank you! Very helpful
I call It a psychologist revenge. Quite often , when the psychologist had difficulties with a client was reaching to the one of the most pejorative diagnosis : Borderline Personality Disorder ( not to mention that DSM is not a psychologist manual , and diagnosis belongs to the psychiatrist).
I only know case of finding attachment condition not noticing bpd. these things overlay in many elements or can coexist. So wrong diagnosis can be troublesome or actually point the searched direction
Can you be borderline without the fear of abandonment? What would that look like? What replaces the fear?
How does attachment theory, specifically being avoidant, affect the presentation of borderline?