Thank you for this video I've just done Boston Marathon UK 3:50:56 torrential rain gail winds & flooded roads muddy everywhere. I like your assessment at the end of good & bad things to look at from the race. I'm thinking of Yorkshire marathon 2024 with what I've learned to progress.
Great togetherness and true running partners there....takes just as much willpower to stop when it's sensible as it does to the finish line, and just as much to stop to support your partner. Well done both! More marathons to come!
Hi John and Dawn, I ran on Sunday and saw you both when you stopped and I did feel for you both…. I have a lot of respect for you both for listening to your body and knowing when it isn’t your day❤
You crazy kids, that was heart warming and incredibly sweet. Forget the running. Dawn seriously love conquers all. Good for you! There's always a next time. ❤ Also John your face when Dawn says she loves you more. 😂 You're a lucky man. Keep on keeping on.
@@tworunningbrooms do did the right thing. And in this day and age that seems rare. I admire you for that. And I do already admire both of you for your abilities and for sharing your experience and experiences.
The marathon takes no prisoners :) I did the Yorkshire marathon two weeks after the Barcelona ironman (I'm a cyclist mostly, not a runner), I thought I had recovered enough and was only really doing it to support a first timer at the club who planned to run at 8min/km. A week before the race he pulled out so rather than running at the very conservative pace intended, I was running at 6:30/km. Felt fine for the first half then the wheels came off the bus :) Finally finished in just under 6 hours, which is not much faster than I did the marathon at the end of the Barcelona ironman after riding for 112 miles :)
Sometimes it's not that you've done anything wrong or anything was overly lacking in a build up, it's just some days the legs feel shit...... It's just extra gutting when it dovetails with a race 👍🦾🏃♀🏃❤
That's very true. It's taken me over a week to get over the cramp though. It's still a bit sore so working on plans to injury proof it moving forwards.
Sorry to hear about the hamstrings. That was very nice for Dawn to stop. The weather was great and scenery awesome in Yorkshire. I thought you had enough training. I am sure you will be ready for Manchester. I thought both of you were running a fast pace.
It does. In retrospect I had a 'I'll just complete this one and go from there' approach. I still think I could have done but for the hamstring. On reflection I think lingering virus leading to early onset fatigue the most likely cause.
Unlucky, but should add more fuel to the fire for a spring time attempt? And hats off to Dawn for stopping too I’m not sure that many partners would be so caring 😊!
I'm sorry that the race didn't go to plan for you John, it was sensible to pull the plug, and I totally understand Dawn not wanting to continue! I would have done the same if I was in a race with Ben. On the bright side you guys got a bunch of things right and you know what to work on for your next block!
Marathons are hard and almost impossible to get perfect, probably right not to plough on if having difficulties. I will likely return to the marathon distance as it’s something I want another go at……
You are both such genuine people reporting so quickly on a very disappointing race. Similar to John I returned to running last year after over 30 years and did a marathon in November after several long runs in training something I used to do back in the day. Unfortunately my head is back in the 80’s/90’s but my body isn’t and I found in the marathon my legs were dead before 10 miles. I knew my goal of 4.59 (good for age being 72) was out the window and finished with 5.36. This year I am doing the same marathon but my approach has been different not running volume weekly mileage and using a 7 runs in a 14 day cycle which allows my body time to recover which I didn’t allow last year. So far it seems to be working and my longest run has been 3hrs 45 min (20Miles) and have gone injury free so far (last long run this coming Sunday). I am not trying to tell such lovely people what has gone wrong but just what went wrong for me last year. Additionally I have adopted the “run,dream,achieve” guys policy of incorporating slightly quicker than marathon pace into a long run (for example in the 20 miler I ran 1 mile w/u, then 2 miles 30 secs or so faster than marathon pace then 1 mile slower than marathon pace 6 times + a cool down and the next week a shorter long run very steady. Maybe an idea for you and I won’t know if this will work for me until next month. Also a track session midweek with a day off before and after to fully recover. However idea sharing is something we have to adapt to our personal selves. Best wishes to you both and I am so impressed that you have shared your thoughts and the caring nature of Dawn as it must have been very worrying for her seeing you in trouble. Kind regards Trevor
Thanks, Trevor. Hopefully, you've now found what works for you. It does take some adjusting as we get older, but hopefully, we all find our way and achieve success. We will be back at it again soon. Good luck with your goals! 👍
@@tworunningbrooms Thanks John, I will only know if my training plan for this year is successful in a few weeks time. I only know what wasn’t and won’t go there again. Kind of you to reply and sincerely I wish you both the very best and really enjoy your channel. Kind regards. Trevor
Sensible to stop I think but well done for trying. Think you were one of the lucky ones in terms of pre race organisation. By the time we got to the airfield we’d queued for 45 minutes. Folk started driving across the grass etc etc. The queues for the portaloos were unbelievable in the event village to the point where we missed the start of the race. One of my friends missed it by 30 minutes! And we’d all set off in good time!
We were concerned for some friends about 30 minutes behind us, but they appeared to also get in okay. We thought the portaloo situation at the airfield was poor as only had 5 there. More could've prevented people from being desperate on arrival at the event village so less queuing. Luckily, we arrived early and had no problems there. Hopefully, feedback from folk affected will make sure they get it a bit better for next year.
@@tworunningbrooms hopefully… tho precious feedback at various run for all events hasn’t made much difference yet… However, once we got going we had a great time and I would do York again. Sorry you guys had to pull out, but there’s always another one on the horizon!
Yeah if ya had a virus there isn’t much ya can do, I’ve got bit of a chest cold & can run but nowhere near 100% yep I can understand Dawn stopping to help, what ya could do for the next marathon is say from the start if it happens again to either one of you, John Dawn agree will keep running finish her or his own race, it’s awesome that you filmed the race but, one idea could be have someone else you know do some filming so you & Dawn can concentrate fully on marathon pace, race, & any flat marathons without hills? onwards & upwards tomorrows another day, 👊🏼👏🌲👍🏼🏃🏽♂️👣
We had discussed this Reece. Had it been 20 miles it happened or by a drop out point it would have been different story. Yes I think for a serious time attempt the cameras will have to go.
Sorry you weren't able to complete. This is first time I’ve seen your channel so I don’t know anything about your running background or about you as people. John - can't help thinking you let your head drop as you weren't going to hit your time target. It's nice to have a time target but any plan has to be adjustable depending on how the race pans out. Finishing in a slower time surely has to be better than a DNF. Dawn - nobody likes to see their loved ones struggle. I have a twin brother who has struggled at races in the past. It pains me to see this so I fully understand. John would've been perfectly ok waiting for his lift so you really should've pushed on and finished alone, especially as you seemed to be going perfectly ok. Again, I would say taking a slightly slower time for yourself is better than a DNF. In the future, I think both of you running your own race is the way forward. If one of you has a bad race, it seemed pointless for the other to stop. I wish you well with future challenges. Hopefully, lessons can be learnt. Fuelling for example is such a vital part of marathon running. Can’t stress that enough.
Thank you for your detailed answer. We're both experienced runners and, on this occasion, believe we both made the right decision. John adjusted his target throughout, but when your hamstring cramps at 16 miles another 10 with this could lead to injury so perfectly acceptable to call it a day and not cause further damage. As it is he has no injury just a sore hammy today. As for me (Dawn) yes, I could've pushed on, but that's not my way... You have a valid point in choosing different races for some goals. This is something we have discussed. Stick around we have a lot of success as well as a few failures. It's all part of being a runner. 👍
In one of your episodes you mentioned you that you both are running every day and sometimes twice a day. Maybe incorporating more rest into your training schedule would help. May help ward off illness as well.
The taper week involved just 1 mile runs, so fatigue from the training was not present when we started. In fact, we felt quite rested before the race. As for illness, we work in schools, and there's no way avoiding bugs...
Hello friends, sorry for the outcome of your race. It seems the decision made was justified. Additionally, considering Dawn's Marathon was right, as mentally you wouldn't have been able to get your head for running. In my opinion, it appears that there might be a nutritional factor contributing to your cramping issue. It is possible that you are deficient in a specific mineral, which could explain the cramps you experienced. Have you ever tried taking magnesium? Personally, I highly recommend it as I have never encountered any cramping issues while using it.
Thanks Ian. Appreciate it. Forgot to say we take magnesium too. Cramping isn't a normal thing. Managed to get all the way through this mostly hot summer without a problem. I'm thinking more about the post virus. Didn't feel right when Dawn did her HM and I ran with her. Didn't feel on top of the game at the 10k. Just the 5k felt good so I thought all would be OK. Hope the Beachy Head taper is going well.
@@tworunningbrooms I was off sick last week with a flare-up of diverticulitis, so I'm not really sure what to do. Considering what can happen, it might not be a good idea. I will see how the track session feels tomorrow night and then make a decision.
Good video Brooms and sorry to hear things didn't go to plan😢. Marathon roulette is fun but dangerous (I've got the bullet holes to prove it). Two questions for JB... Why 40g/hour carbs in-race, when 60-90g is recommended? How are you deciding what your MP is... and did you over-reach? Hypoyhesis: Slightly too fast + Slightly under-fuelled = Trouble at 16-20 miles
I don't think I could stomach more than one gel per half an hour or so. Back in the day I'd take one every 5 miles when running just over 6m/m. And Ron Hill took nothing but a suck of a sponge. I'd have to take how many gels? Not sure the stomach wouldn't find them too sickly. Regarding marathon pace. The 5k scales up to 3:10 far too optimistic. But 3:15 seemed realistic. That's 7:27 pace. So running 7:35-7:45 would be a margin for error. And the heart rate was 155-160 when my thought was 160-165 would be the sweet spot for the marathon.
When I was dipping under 20 for 5K, 3:30-5 was typical,with 3:22 being my best (off back of 3 consecutive mara seasons), which is why your pace seemed speedy to me. Apparently you can train your stomach to take more catbs (presumably by taking them on MP training sessions). I got to the stage of taking one every 20 min but I did stop after 2:20 (when GIT will prob complain as blood diverted to legs).
Sorry to see it didn't go to plan but respect for calling it and not giving yourself a more serious injury. As always really clear headed and transparent reflections that I'm sure will put you in a good position for the comeback! Well done both
![No Walk In The Park 5K February 2025 [] RACE VLOG [] How Fast Can We Run A 5K in Marathon Training?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4GxN8WRPo_c/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for this video I've just done Boston Marathon UK 3:50:56 torrential rain gail winds & flooded roads muddy everywhere. I like your assessment at the end of good & bad things to look at from the race. I'm thinking of Yorkshire marathon 2024 with what I've learned to progress.
Well done, we heard conditions were awful at Boston. Good luck with training for Yorkshire!
York has given us both a hard time! Well done regardless.
Makes me want to go back and conquer it. Just watched your Amsterdam tale of woe. Unbelievablly epic.
Great togetherness and true running partners there....takes just as much willpower to stop when it's sensible as it does to the finish line, and just as much to stop to support your partner. Well done both! More marathons to come!
That's very kind Tom. Dawn bounced back quickly to complete the Abingdon Marathon yesterday so redemption Vlog upcoming...
Great video Brooms. Sorry about the hammies!
The hammies were toasties
Keep on keeping on 😊
And on...and on...
Marathons are tricky. Sometimes, it is just not your day. Thank you for sharing!!
We go again Jay
Hi John and Dawn, I ran on Sunday and saw you both when you stopped and I did feel for you both…. I have a lot of respect for you both for listening to your body and knowing when it isn’t your day❤
That's very kind, Anya. Did you have a good race?
@@tworunningbrooms I did thank you- ran my first sub 4 on my 2nd marathon ever!
thanks for such an honest video
Thanks. Redemption was found a week later at Abingdon.
Heartwarming seeing Dawn not wanting to leave you alone ❤ Your day will come!
Thanks Josh. One day next year...
You crazy kids, that was heart warming and incredibly sweet. Forget the running. Dawn seriously love conquers all. Good for you! There's always a next time. ❤
Also John your face when Dawn says she loves you more. 😂 You're a lucky man. Keep on keeping on.
Lol. Thanks, some folk said I should've taken his gels and carried on. 🤣
@@tworunningbrooms do did the right thing. And in this day and age that seems rare. I admire you for that. And I do already admire both of you for your abilities and for sharing your experience and experiences.
Well done, great job, roll on to the next one !! Appreciate you making the video too 😊
Well we have a habit of making decent DNF videos this year. Hopefully next year...
Solid running though both , awesome pace up until then ..Best wishes for the next one 👍😀
Thank you Mathew
Very heart warming,❤❤❤❤
Thank you
The marathon takes no prisoners :) I did the Yorkshire marathon two weeks after the Barcelona ironman (I'm a cyclist mostly, not a runner), I thought I had recovered enough and was only really doing it to support a first timer at the club who planned to run at 8min/km. A week before the race he pulled out so rather than running at the very conservative pace intended, I was running at 6:30/km. Felt fine for the first half then the wheels came off the bus :) Finally finished in just under 6 hours, which is not much faster than I did the marathon at the end of the Barcelona ironman after riding for 112 miles :)
Ouch. I think some people love Yorkshire Marathon and sail round it. But it doesn't seem to be a forgiving one if things aren't going right.
Unlucky you had to pull out, keep on keeping on as you say 👍🏻
Thanks. Thoughts have moved on to the next goal. 🙂
Great channel, great video!
Thank you. 👍
Sometimes it's not that you've done anything wrong or anything was overly lacking in a build up, it's just some days the legs feel shit...... It's just extra gutting when it dovetails with a race 👍🦾🏃♀🏃❤
That's very true. It's taken me over a week to get over the cramp though. It's still a bit sore so working on plans to injury proof it moving forwards.
Sorry to hear about the hamstrings. That was very nice for Dawn to stop. The weather was great and scenery awesome in Yorkshire. I thought you had enough training. I am sure you will be ready for Manchester. I thought both of you were running a fast pace.
Thanks. Just one of those days that us runners sometimes experience. Not what you want, but you move on.
John and Dawn, DNFing is part of marathoning. It IS a beast. The distance commands respect.
It does. In retrospect I had a 'I'll just complete this one and go from there' approach. I still think I could have done but for the hamstring. On reflection I think lingering virus leading to early onset fatigue the most likely cause.
Unlucky, but should add more fuel to the fire for a spring time attempt? And hats off to Dawn for stopping too I’m not sure that many partners would be so caring 😊!
Thank you. Manchester Marathon in spring.
I'm sorry that the race didn't go to plan for you John, it was sensible to pull the plug, and I totally understand Dawn not wanting to continue! I would have done the same if I was in a race with Ben. On the bright side you guys got a bunch of things right and you know what to work on for your next block!
Thanks Chloe. We rebuild stronger for next time.
Oh no, sorry guys -- heartwarming protectiveness from you though Dawn! -- CharlieW
Thanks Charlie. We live to fight again.
Takecare
Thanks
Marathons are hard and almost impossible to get perfect, probably right not to plough on if having difficulties. I will likely return to the marathon distance as it’s something I want another go at……
Good luck with it Adam
You are both such genuine people reporting so quickly on a very disappointing race.
Similar to John I returned to running last year after over 30 years and did a marathon in November after several long runs in training something I used to do back in the day.
Unfortunately my head is back in the 80’s/90’s but my body isn’t and I found in the marathon my legs were dead before 10 miles. I knew my goal of 4.59 (good for age being 72) was out the window and finished with 5.36.
This year I am doing the same marathon but my approach has been different not running volume weekly mileage and using a 7 runs in a 14 day cycle which allows my body time to recover which I didn’t allow last year. So far it seems to be working and my longest run has been 3hrs 45 min (20Miles) and have gone injury free so far (last long run this coming Sunday).
I am not trying to tell such lovely people what has gone wrong but just what went wrong for me last year.
Additionally I have adopted the “run,dream,achieve” guys policy of incorporating slightly quicker than marathon pace into a long run (for example in the 20 miler I ran 1 mile w/u, then 2 miles 30 secs or so faster than marathon pace then 1 mile slower than marathon pace 6 times + a cool down and the next week a shorter long run very steady.
Maybe an idea for you and I won’t know if this will work for me until next month.
Also a track session midweek with a day off before and after to fully recover.
However idea sharing is something we have to adapt to our personal selves.
Best wishes to you both and I am so impressed that you have shared your thoughts and the caring nature of Dawn as it must have been very worrying for her seeing you in trouble. Kind regards
Trevor
Thanks, Trevor. Hopefully, you've now found what works for you. It does take some adjusting as we get older, but hopefully, we all find our way and achieve success.
We will be back at it again soon. Good luck with your goals! 👍
@@tworunningbrooms Thanks John, I will only know if my training plan for this year is successful in a few weeks time.
I only know what wasn’t and won’t go there again.
Kind of you to reply and sincerely I wish you both the very best and really enjoy your channel.
Kind regards. Trevor
At least there wasn't any uncomfortableness 😂 I'm at a loss to explain the problem you had, unless it was the cramp gremlins!
Haha.
Who knows what caused the cramps, but a more S&C won't harm.
Gutted for you john, a dnf for any reason is a hard one to swallow, kudos for dawn for staying with you.
Recover, analyse and come back stronger.
Thank you. Plans are already in the making. 🙂
Oh gutted for you both. Hopefully the changes work for you and the recovery is quick. Have you ever tried xendurance tablets before a race?
No tell me more... back in the day 5 gels was enough. I've upped it to 6 as a lot slower.
Sensible to stop I think but well done for trying.
Think you were one of the lucky ones in terms of pre race organisation. By the time we got to the airfield we’d queued for 45 minutes. Folk started driving across the grass etc etc. The queues for the portaloos were unbelievable in the event village to the point where we missed the start of the race. One of my friends missed it by 30 minutes!
And we’d all set off in good time!
We were concerned for some friends about 30 minutes behind us, but they appeared to also get in okay.
We thought the portaloo situation at the airfield was poor as only had 5 there. More could've prevented people from being desperate on arrival at the event village so less queuing. Luckily, we arrived early and had no problems there. Hopefully, feedback from folk affected will make sure they get it a bit better for next year.
@@tworunningbrooms hopefully… tho precious feedback at various run for all events hasn’t made much difference yet… However, once we got going we had a great time and I would do York again. Sorry you guys had to pull out, but there’s always another one on the horizon!
Yeah if ya had a virus there isn’t much ya can do, I’ve got bit of a chest cold & can run but nowhere near 100% yep I can understand Dawn stopping to help, what ya could do for the next marathon is say from the start if it happens again to either one of you, John Dawn agree will keep running finish her or his own race, it’s awesome that you filmed the race but, one idea could be have someone else you know do some filming so you & Dawn can concentrate fully on marathon pace, race, & any flat marathons without hills? onwards & upwards tomorrows another day, 👊🏼👏🌲👍🏼🏃🏽♂️👣
We had discussed this Reece. Had it been 20 miles it happened or by a drop out point it would have been different story. Yes I think for a serious time attempt the cameras will have to go.
Yep even though things didn’t go quite to plan, still amazing just to enjoy what ever ya can from experience of the day, 👏
Sorry you weren't able to complete. This is first time I’ve seen your channel so I don’t know anything about your running background or about you as people.
John - can't help thinking you let your head drop as you weren't going to hit your time target. It's nice to have a time target but any plan has to be adjustable depending on how the race pans out. Finishing in a slower time surely has to be better than a DNF.
Dawn - nobody likes to see their loved ones struggle. I have a twin brother who has struggled at races in the past. It pains me to see this so I fully understand. John would've been perfectly ok waiting for his lift so you really should've pushed on and finished alone, especially as you seemed to be going perfectly ok. Again, I would say taking a slightly slower time for yourself is better than a DNF.
In the future, I think both of you running your own race is the way forward. If one of you has a bad race, it seemed pointless for the other to stop.
I wish you well with future challenges. Hopefully, lessons can be learnt. Fuelling for example is such a vital part of marathon running. Can’t stress that enough.
Thank you for your detailed answer.
We're both experienced runners and, on this occasion, believe we both made the right decision. John adjusted his target throughout, but when your hamstring cramps at 16 miles another 10 with this could lead to injury so perfectly acceptable to call it a day and not cause further damage. As it is he has no injury just a sore hammy today.
As for me (Dawn) yes, I could've pushed on, but that's not my way... You have a valid point in choosing different races for some goals. This is something we have discussed.
Stick around we have a lot of success as well as a few failures. It's all part of being a runner. 👍
In one of your episodes you mentioned you that you both are running every day and sometimes twice a day. Maybe incorporating more rest into your training schedule would help. May help ward off illness as well.
The taper week involved just 1 mile runs, so fatigue from the training was not present when we started. In fact, we felt quite rested before the race. As for illness, we work in schools, and there's no way avoiding bugs...
Well done you two, plenty of other races to come. Don’t feel bad about a dnf, I wouldn’t be able to run past my partner in that situation.
Thank you, Andrew. Yes, it would be very difficult to run past a loved one struggling. Maybe if I was winning the race...🤣🤣
Hello friends, sorry for the outcome of your race. It seems the decision made was justified. Additionally, considering Dawn's Marathon was right, as mentally you wouldn't have been able to get your head for running.
In my opinion, it appears that there might be a nutritional factor contributing to your cramping issue. It is possible that you are deficient in a specific mineral, which could explain the cramps you experienced. Have you ever tried taking magnesium? Personally, I highly recommend it as I have never encountered any cramping issues while using it.
Thanks Ian. Appreciate it. Forgot to say we take magnesium too. Cramping isn't a normal thing. Managed to get all the way through this mostly hot summer without a problem. I'm thinking more about the post virus. Didn't feel right when Dawn did her HM and I ran with her. Didn't feel on top of the game at the 10k. Just the 5k felt good so I thought all would be OK.
Hope the Beachy Head taper is going well.
@@tworunningbrooms I was off sick last week with a flare-up of diverticulitis, so I'm not really sure what to do. Considering what can happen, it might not be a good idea. I will see how the track session feels tomorrow night and then make a decision.
@@inmruns I'd be very wary of going into anything of that length half or even three-quarters cooked.
Unlucky, better luck next time
Hope so!
Good video Brooms and sorry to hear things didn't go to plan😢. Marathon roulette is fun but dangerous (I've got the bullet holes to prove it).
Two questions for JB...
Why 40g/hour carbs in-race, when 60-90g is recommended?
How are you deciding what your MP is... and did you over-reach?
Hypoyhesis: Slightly too fast + Slightly under-fuelled = Trouble at 16-20 miles
I don't think I could stomach more than one gel per half an hour or so. Back in the day I'd take one every 5 miles when running just over 6m/m. And Ron Hill took nothing but a suck of a sponge. I'd have to take how many gels? Not sure the stomach wouldn't find them too sickly.
Regarding marathon pace. The 5k scales up to 3:10 far too optimistic. But 3:15 seemed realistic. That's 7:27 pace. So running 7:35-7:45 would be a margin for error. And the heart rate was 155-160 when my thought was 160-165 would be the sweet spot for the marathon.
When I was dipping under 20 for 5K, 3:30-5 was typical,with 3:22 being my best (off back of 3 consecutive mara seasons), which is why your pace seemed speedy to me.
Apparently you can train your stomach to take more catbs (presumably by taking them on MP training sessions). I got to the stage of taking one every 20 min but I did stop after 2:20 (when GIT will prob complain as blood diverted to legs).
Soory you had to DNF
Thanks. 🙂
Sorry to see it didn't go to plan but respect for calling it and not giving yourself a more serious injury. As always really clear headed and transparent reflections that I'm sure will put you in a good position for the comeback! Well done both
Thanks Ben. Thought about relentless tarmac when you noted how much there was at the start of the Meridian run.