It is an interceptor and usually interceptor aircraft don’t do well in the dogfight meta we are in. Just look a the original MiG-23 on release and F-104s. All interceptors aren't that good.
@@Dertava02 they are not specialized interceptors, rather point-defense fighters, it would be like calling the Spitfire or Phantom II an interceptor, as the MiG-21 was essentially built to roughly the same ideas of air superiority over a localized space. Specialized interceptors in Soviet service were usually much heavier aircraft, think the Firebar, Fishpot, Flagon, Foxbat etc.
But the F104/Mig 23 actually had an advantage, they were fast and had good acceleration. The other top tiers have speed, acceleration and turn rate over the F3 so it doesn’t really shine anywhere
This vehicle would be amazing if it was where it belongs… at 10.7 OOOOR Gaijin could do something really cool, and actually decompress the BR’s Make 13.3 the new Top BR F-16, F-14 and Mig-29 can all go there, and everything trickles down, move the A-10 and SU-25 to 10.0, the A-4e to 9.0 and put this at 11.7 Boom, the game would be SOOOOO much more playable And as an Italian main, idc about the gaps I’d have in my tree, I’d take having a fun time over filling every gap in the air Then there would be space for things like the F-111, the F-102/106, the F-101 and many other aircraft While allowing the more CAS focused planes to hold their own in the air But that would mean the game is fun, and people wouldn’t buy golden eagles and premium time So Gaijin won’t do that
The fact is that people don’t consider that 👏THE 👏 TORNADO 👏 WAS 👏 NOT 👏 DESIGNED 👏 TO 👏 BE 👏 A 👏 FIGHTER 👏. It was an interceptor, its job was to takeoff, go fast, climb, go fast, shoot a bomber with a missile, go fast, turn around and go home fast. Ok, it will not make the UK competitive in the game but I don’t get why people would be mad that an interceptor is not competing with a air superiority fighter like the mig29 or the f16 Edit: i would add great video anyways, keep up with the good work.
@@DangerousSkyFel0n the FW190 A-8 is an interceptor too and can’t energy fight a Canberra, interceptor < bombers ? You find this statement dumb ? Well think about comparing a Drakken to a Tornado… if you play your tornado the same way you use a Drakken no wonder why it is so bad. But it’s not the plane ! It clearly needs a buff, but it’s certainly not awful, with a little effort you can easily get 4 kills. It needs to go faster and be more sable, maybe it could turn better but you have thrust reversal which is a really powerful tool in dogfight. It’s like an Harrier, it’s useless to dogfight if you don’t use vtol commands. Here I would say it’s basically the same thing.
I believe they gave us the worst radar possible for this plane, there is a later upgrade that people wanted and they didn't give it. They'll likely add that as a separate plane with AMRAMMS. Look at the YAK141, tiny wings with a bricky airframe. Yes it is lighter than the Tornado, but not that much. The Yak141 can pull like 13G easily and it a great dogfighter, yet the Tornado even with its wings fully forward barely pulls 7G. The Tornado has a terrible flight model where it lacks a significant amount of lift at all speeds. If you fly the Tornado at around 250mph (400kph) even with the wings fully out it will literally start to fall out of the sky, it has zero lift. Irl the Tornados had a stall speed of only 185kph, if that dosent show how lacking it is in lift then idk what does. I dont wanna be one of these brit mains who acts like the Tornados should be able to dogfight an F16, but the fact the plane is effectively allergic to staying in the air clearly isn't right...
All Brit mains want is an aircraft that actually performs in line with reality. Thing is, by the time this thing gets corrected, we’ll have SU27PUs, F15s and Rafales, and the Brits/Germans will have to wait 6 months to a year for the Eurofighter to arrive. That’ll then be awful and underperforming on release, and by the time it’s fixed we have F22s and F35s. Thus is the cycle that the British tech tree has gone through ever since the Javelin was released.
@@therealwildboar1007 I've not played for that long, but that sounds accurate according to my experience. I got to top tier jets in Britain only to find out I shouldn't have bothered. Well at least I got the Harrier GR7 for CAS, until Gaijin jacks up its BR so high it'll be a whole BR above any tanks...
The tornado is not going to be pulling with any other vehicle. How a plane "looks" has nothing to do with how it flies. Just look at the j8b, for example.
Long or short wings don't matter that much, lift is only one of the factors of maneuverability. Instability, wing loading, thrust to weight ratio, wing design and Angle of Attack: all of these make maneuverability either alone or combined in balance. (only that I've learn through playing KSP in a potato laptop lol) the Tornado has a low TWR and only starts accelerating at high speeds when the wings swept back generate less drag, when this is done the Center of Lift is far behind the Center of Mass, causing it to be too stable to turn the Yak 41 has a crazy TWR, has delta wings(which generate a lot of AoA) are lighter and will carry half the missiles the average tornado wil, sure it's very probable it turns more than it did IRL, but it's still nore of a fighter than the tornado, also i'm not sure when the F.3 even vamr out but the Yaj 41 was made with modern avionica from the late 80's and 90's, may have something to do with it, may not idk
maybe people should do some reading on this thing before assuming it was gonna be good in the first place. Thing had NO radar when it was deployed and got its ass kicked by a F-4ICE on a regular
@@VectorGhost Wrong. The F.2 variant got out to squadrons for training without radars at first but the didn't get deployed until they got radars. They got beaten by F-4ICEs not because the F-4 was a better platform but because they got AMRAAMs before the Tornado due to the MOD being short on cash after the Nimrod farce and a number of other things. Please fact check what you say before you make yourself look dumb.
When you're talking about turning with the wings swept back and the nose pitches but the fighter wants to keep going straight that would be Angle of Attack (AoA)
@@SeekerHead it just refers to the angle between your nose and your velocity vector. It's most noticeable in hard turns, but it's common in level flight at low speeds. The best example I can think of is carrier take off and landings
When @@SeekerHead said the Tornado feels like it falls out the sky with swept wings I totally understand what he means, it makes me question the flight model of the Tornado Vs the Mig-23, they are built quite similar in shape, square fuselage and wings on top etc, but the Tornado handles soooo much worse, wings forward or back. It also overloads it's wings much more easily than any other jet, it's like they forgot to do the x1.5 multiplier on airframe g limit.
Ah, yes let me go ahead and get two identical mediocre phantoms on 2 entierly separate lines that are both painfull to grind just to get another shitbox, Lovely.
Gr.1: It's a bomber stop crying !!!!111!!1! F.3: It's an interceptor stop crying!!!!1!1!!!11 well, people in this comment section are failing to realize that you can't actually play like an "interceptor" in this game. there are no bomber targets to "intercept". Instead you have to intercept fighters. it's "interceptor" capabilities are massively worse compared to any other top tier planes that aren't even interceptors. try to bvr like an actual "interceptor"? immediately get knocked out by am aim7f or a r27er which are better in every way compared to the supertemps.... try to hit and run? it can't outrun anything.... try climbing? good luck doing that against tomcats... so stop saying "play it like an interceptor", because it is shit, even at intercepting. it can't dogfight. it can bvr but is at a massive disadvantage.
As usual for British vehicles they left it far too late and added it with a fucked flight model and equipment. It should have been in game before the Tomcat. Unfortunately this is probably it for top tier Britain until they get around to adding the eurofighter, which likely won't come until a patch or two after America and Russia have something better than it. They could easily justify a Commonwealth F-16 based on the rules they've used for certain other nations, but I doubt they'll bother.
@@_dtankshooter try to play like an interceptor. Some dude is going to force you down and you aren’t able to do anything about it because every other top tier plane is just better at everything. Good luck
@@_dtankshooterwhile thats true and valid, it really should be much better at turn fighting and dogfighting than it currently is, so all the points Seek makes are still reasonable
Yep. Figured it was gonna be like this. If I was in a squad, I'd still play it over the FGR.2/FG.1 for the extra BVR ability due to my playstyle, but I'm under no illusions about its merge ability. Only hope for this thing is to put the wings out, put the combat flaps down, get it to around 900 km/h, keep it there, and pray...
If I had a dollar for every time gaijin introduced a British intercepter and forced it to fight as a fighter I’d have enough for a kfc. Which ain’t a lot but it’s a fair few
Plays an interceptor as a fighter and wonder why the plane is bad. Tornado rudder makes it wonky, guns are unusable, and it should reach its historical of 1500 km/h at sea level. A part of that he’s not so bad, now he is having a air air loadout
you cant really even call the tornado an interceptor. its just a revamp of the original bomber tornado but with air to air capability. the original chassis is still of a ground attacker
@@speedtime1218 Only in War thunder, in Rl the Pilots a praising its stabillity and abillity to outperform other planes of its time in low level flight. Well gajjin its all about ruasian an american thiungs i guess XD we have a military airfiled here we know how the pilots describe it and this thing doesnt behave in the game nearly as good as in rl XD I hate Gyjin for that they did to the first really german toptier outside of copy and paste :(
@@speedtime1218 All those planes you mentioned were also designed to be air superiority fighters, the Tornado wasn't... Just accept the fact that the Tornado isn't a turn fighter and should be WAY faster than all those jets in game near the deck. But Gaijin will be Gaijin.
@@andrewdiresta8416 Maybe as a full package in Air RB, but if you’re comparing ACM flight performance, NOTHING touches the F-16 assuming two pilots of equal skill and complete understanding of the aircraft they’re flying
@@BeezeeBD Is it really so obvious? The Harrier turns better and stays in the sky better. Sure you don't get any SARHs but you won't be getting any kills with them against a competent opponent anyway. Lastly while the Tornado IS fast than the Harrier neither of them can actually run away from any of the planes they are fighting so it doesn't really matter.
@@Iniesta970 I may have misinterpreted what he was saying now that you point that out... I read it as 'obviously not even close' but that comma my brain skipped completely changes the meaning of what he said.
I think the issue is that the Tornado was never designed to be a dogfighter. It was more designed to fly high and fast, patrolling large areas of airspace for Soviet bombers. It was always going to be a terrible dogfighter. It's just too fat.
@@missing_nickname With a full load it's a lot faster than any of the actual fighters, don't know about this on but the IDS can bomb two bases and carry 2 missiles all while going as fast if not faster than fighters just with missiles. It's a great bomber but the game isn't built for bombing
Gimped a radar more powerful than the F-15’s, gimped missiles halfway between the performance of an Aim-7F and R-27ER. Gaijin I am disappointed in you.
Retards think that. He didn't consider thst Tornado wasn't made for Turning (like most jets lol. Energy maneuverability is a last resort when BVR didn't work)
@@TheFlyingPancakeReal typical tornado fanboy lmao. the tornado may be the best plane in real life but in the end of the day, in war thunder, its absolutely shit. both this and the ground attack variant
First off, the reason I believe he’s calling it complete trash is that he’s playing it incorrectly, he’s flying head on into the match and attempting to turn fight, three words, flank and spank, get up to 860 mph and flank the map and kill whatever you find on the edge of the map, for this aircraft your need to play very passively and never try and turn fight unless the enemy is distracted. So no this thing is not complete garbage if you play it correctly, my data to back this up is that I have the plane and I have nearly a 3 to one kd
I dont really understand the surprise at a missile bus being a fucking bus. The entire philosophy of the ADV going very fast in a straight line and chucking missiles at a squadron of german bombers. It is not, and will never be, a dogfighter.
Whats the point for Gaijin make this plane this freaking awful? I remember when at the very beginning of the tanks, they tried hard to make tanks pretty accurate behavior, armor etc (like they were in real life) and now just became kind of an arcade game. I bet my testicles that the Tornado is not a brick in real life…
In simulator however, on the Sinai map, this thing is DOMINATING. Due to the allies being sooooo much more powerful + the new Sinai map which is a good addition, im regularly seeing this thing have between a 8-6KD
@@SeekerHead didn't say u had to but your complaining that a plane that was designed for its sole reason to be an interceptor cant turn Is stupid. It's not bad you just can't fly it so u blame the plane
ok but for the interceptor role it still sucks there are 3 definite maybe 4 planes that do bvr and intercepting better than it. and u can't intercept every single game and once you are pushed out of intercepting by better planes you eventually have to merge with aircraft its how the game works and then once you merge you are dead it is simply not a good aircraft.
U have to play to it's strengths. It's basically a boom and zoom plane. Keep up your speed fire missiles at range then run. Simple. I've been doing fine in it
@@why-ls5ji yes but my point is that there are 3 planes that do that better now even 4 or 5 debatable but those planes can also turn in and dogfight and have incredible performance and its not even like the tornado is the fastest in the game the mig 29 and f-16 will run it down.
This plane is not great that's true but it's not unusable. I would recommend Tim's variety review, it's much better, and I like Seek but Tim just did a much better job this time and that's that.
nothing at top tier is “unusable” it’s brain dead missile combat. As long as a plane has 30G missiles it can see kills. That doesn’t change the fact that is objectively worse in every metric than all of its competition. Giving some broad “strategy” for the tornado such as flying to the edge of the map, staying fast, and 3rd partying the furball is not unique to the tornado. that’s just how you’re supposed to play top tier. and if u do that same thing with literally any other 11.3, the other ones can do exactly that but be better at it in every way. people just get off to the elitism of claiming shitty planes “can be good if you just play it like me man, you’re flying it wrong it’s an INTERCEPTOR!!!!”
@@SeekerHead I agree, but you also must consider, there were indeed interceptors and just because some machine is unsuited for WT furball meta does not mean it should be never played. When people come to youtube to search specific machine it's because they often LIKE it and in that case, telling me how it's crap might be counter-productive for you as CC, me as a player and the state of the game /meta in general. Be objective OK but also give me the positives of the machine and tell me how to exploit them the best. Positive approach sells.
“positive approach sells” Thts the issue. I’m not trying to sell you on anything like other people. If that’s what you’re looking for then yeah other creators would sell things to you a lot better than me. I’m about telling people how it is, and they can decide what they want to do based on my assessment. Last thing I want is for someone like yourself to love the tornado, see it in game, go buy a $70 premium to try to grind for it, just to find out it is boarder-line unplayable compared to its competition. I don’t want to leave ANYONE with the impression that this plane can be made or confused as “good” if you play it a certain way or do a certain thing. Will you be better off using common sense playstyles that should be a given at top tier for any jet? Yes. But take absolutely any scenario, and change that scenario out with another plane, and u get a better result. That my friend, is the definition of a dumpster fire vehicle in WT. i’m not going to bullshit you and give you some crap assessment of “it’s an interceptor - play it like one” when that means absolutely nothing other than the plane is “good” at killing pre-occupied enemies. News flash, everything is - and they do it better. And how that is even “playing like an interceptor” is beyond me but this community is generally pretty braindead so idk man.
@@SeekerHead Again, you're not wrong and I never said you should BS people but consider this - if we would play only meta-efficient planes in WT, the game would be poorer and bleak for that and 75% of all tech trees would never be played. This is more than just a frag chase, every of plane we see in WT has a history, a place in the world that elevates it more than just being brainless shooter fodder. I generally spade ALL of my vehicles, ground of air alike cause I just like them all in their own way, yes even the crap ones. Consider that many ppl actually get an adrenaline kick from doing really well in piss-poor planes. I'm spading squad SU-22 atm, great lil plane but NOT at 12.0 it almost exclusively gets sucked into, and you know what, I've killed 2 fkkin MiG 29's in game recently and I've felt like a king : ) Find a positive approach, realistic, but positive "yes this vehicle is crap HOWEVER this is what you can do ....." - that's the best advice for the CC you will ever get.
And I do that, the issue is in the tornado the is, once again, absolutely nothing you can do. Your gameplay 100% relies on ur enemies incompetence, not any strength of your plane. Unless you want me to go over the common sense way to play any top tier vehicle every single video. But i’m not going to do that of course that’s just repetitive and by the time you’re at top tier you should know it anyway. There is such thing as a bad plane that have 1 or 2 good characteristics about it you can mention. The tornado has 0, outclassed in every metric. I’m not going to pretend there’s anything you can do to play it better. it’s all about what the enemy does, not you
Is it me or do missiles don't seem to work? Today I fired at a f4c with a magic (a5c) and didn't even track. Of course maybe because it then turned towards me but it was at least 2.3km away
When do u think the uk will get some good fighters? I’m a uk player and ngl I hate my tech tree so much it could be so good but gajin just doesent seem to care that much
Another brit player here, was super excited for this aircraft but wow, it is the biggest pile of crap I've flown yet, was hoping the radar and missiles would make it at least fun given it has the turning radius and flight characteristics of a stalling airbus but nope not even the radar seems to do it justice. Back to waiting on harrier no.x or god forbid nothing till the euro fighter releases in several updates. Wouldn't mind a bae hawk though :)
this is another example of gaijin fucking up a flight model Mig-29s low speed manoeuvrability is a fraction of what it should be and tornado while being an interceptor should turn better than this
British main here on my way to coping with this update. It should be noted that you can use reverse thrust mid air in conjunction with the air brake, flaps, and prayer, to maybe provide an interesting kill for the enemy. Very disappointed in the F3’s performance overall in game, but I still fly it because I still think it’s a cool ass aircraft. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s place within the meta shifts at all when we get ASRAAMS, AMRAAMS, and the like. Even in those circumstances it would still at best be a missile bus. Overall, good and honest coverage of the least dangerous natural disaster currently in game.
I only ever play sim, and I thought the F.3 would be better than it is! I knew it was never going to be a dogfighter, but I thought the radar would be much better, and that with BVR in sim, it might make it a bit more competitive. I think they got the performance side of the aircraft pretty spot on and I completely agree with you about the radar. It is such a disappointment, as it was the one thing I thought would make it reasonably competitive in sim. It loses lock so easily and when it does, it even struggles to pick up the contact again at all. And all the while, the enemy has maintained a consistent lock on you. Another big disadvantage from a sim point of view is it not having a target designator symbol (box, diamond or circle) in the HUD when you have a radar lock. Like the F-14, F-16 and MiG 23 has in game. The F.3 definitely had one in real life, so I don't know why Gaijin didn't give it one in the game. We all know its not the best aircraft, but a least give it what it had in real life! Its not like its an aircraft that needs nerfing, right? 😂 If they improve the radar and its lock ability, and add the target designator symbol in the HUD, it might be OK for sim. However I can completely understand you RB players wanting nothing to do with it though!
And? It makes it a shit plane in top tier air because it can't turn well enough to get its nose on target. You're not going to be BVR fighting all match unless you play like a passive rat
@@xSupra Its not a "passive rat" is using the plane as intended,some machines just cant do everything and its doesnt classify them as bad ...in SB top tier we bad see each other,most combat is BVR,we only do ACM if we dont have BVR capabilities tho the tornados in SB are capable of doing decent ACM with FCA off...
@@xSupra damn man why all that anger calling me a SB rat...is it normal for point and clickers that think they have skills but rely 90% on game assists... The day RB players actually use theyr aircraft isntead of all those assists you guys can call all the ppl in world rats until there stop complaining when you guys use certain types of aircrafts for wrong tasks...
@@M0LOCK You are an Air SB rat. I know it's tough but only you and the 5 bacteria on the servers care about Air SB. You can't even realize why the Tornado being unable to effectively turn in an ARB match makes it a garbage plane. The missiles aren't superior to others, the radar isn't vastly superior to others. It's a shit plane in TT Air RB (mind you the mode being displayed in the video, SB IIRC was never brought up) and no playstle will fix it unless you want to be a passive shitter.
They have to do 2 things: 1 give AIM-120A for the Tornado OR for these salty that dont like the idea of Fox 3 missiles they have to Buff the skyflash Supertemp
@Galaxygm that's what I'm thinking, it would give the tornado the opportunity to turn away and avoid merging as that's it main weakness while not being as game breaking as an amraam would be
i love my germane navy tornado as bomber and ship killer. usually i use external fuel to climb, bomb a base with 5 bombs,drop another 3 bombs at ground targets and try to hit 2 planes with AIM9L. if i get back to airfield it was a perfect round already. sadly the tornado is not as manoeurvrable as in reallife.
at this rate the uk needs the eurofighter but that wont do shit as it will probs be really bad as we all know gaijin hates britain so might aswell get rid of the nation
Because I thought things were a bit.. familiar I went ahead and compared the F14’s radar file and the tornado’s radar file. And surprise surprise, aside from the range and gimbal limits the values relevant to actual acquisition and maintaining locks are the exact same. So if you’re curious as to why even a monkey can notch you, that’s why. Im still on the opinion that if a plane that’s in the game right now could have some variant of the AIM-120 it’s the tornado. This would also imply that it gets the radar capable of using the 120, which should be a lot better
I'm thinking theres going to be a "late" version, the radar and weapons systems on the F3 were steadily improved over its service life with such a shift in capability its hard to see how you could ballance both ends of the spectrum in one vehicle.
Maybe you should take a break bro. You sound so burned out and only annoyed by the game. No offense man but this style of videos is probably not what most people are here for.
@@s.arguedsatsuma2769 they put the bases right in the middle of the map on those "new" ec maps, if you rush for it you will easily be intercepted by an enemy, and if you wait and go around your team might completely vanish by the time you are done bombing
Yak-141 exists and you think this is Bad? Its like people that used to say phantom was bad cuz it couldnt turn with mig-21, even tho it was the best jet in game
lets see. currently the EJ Kai is: - better at accelerating - better at top speed - better gun (M61) - better radar (APG-66) - better kit (Aim-9L + Aim-7F) - wayyy better at turning - colder engine but yeah the tornado is definately better because of skyflash right? 🤣
I dont think Tornado f3 better that ej kai, it similar. Skyflash supertemp equal aim7f, both of them have aim 9l, ej kai have a better radar but tornado have sweep wing , if you fully spead wing out and use the flap you can wing out turn ej kai.
Gaijin gave the tornado the worst variant of the radar developed for it. In real life the Type W radar was so shit, engineers and pilots found 40 bugs on it. The best version of the radar is the Type Z stage 2. I don't know why gaijin didn't want to give it it's best radar variant but it's gaijin were talking about they have one rule for one jet another rule for another jet
Atleast my 104S and 104ASA had speed and small gimmicks to help (like a crazy fast roll) and the addition of countermeasures This Tornado literally sucks
So 2 funny things: the radar is completely scuffed in game (with somehow the same stats as the F14s but completely worse) and they gave it the wrong skyflashes (the ones that were in game years ago and had been removed because of the introduction of the Dogfight Skyflash which means the normal skyflashes are basically worse than Aim-7E)
We need even further decompression. Some planes could be slightly more useful if they didn't have to face F-16s and Mig-29s all the time. But not the Tornado. That thing needs decompression and a whole FM overhaul because Jesus Christ, it's terrible. . . . . . . . . . JK, I got a 5 kill game on it the other day, so it's perfectly balanced...
It's not shit, it's still useable. It's essentially a better FGR.2/FG.1, but with less acceleration. As usual, gaijin has fucked up its FM. It should be somewhat faster than it is, as well as the radar being buggy as fuck (expected as it's a british plane as usual). You're also playing this thing like a damn F-16 or something lmao
I just can't agree that it's better than the FG phantoms. Its flight performance is worse in every metrics, they both have shitty radars, the 9L and the 9G are very similar now that the 9L isnt as flare resistant, and the skyflash temp is only a single step above the skyflash. Overall id rather have the FG, the nose actually goes where I want it to when I need it to
@@SeekerHead It probably depends on playstyle. When i flew the FG.1, i never took the gunpods, as the drag was horrible. Without the pod, i could easily reach 1400km/h on deck. I find the F.3 to be very similar, except it doesn't have that nose authority, and it won't pull as hard since older jets can all pull better than the newer 4th gen for some reason. On top of that, the superTEMPs do work, but they're not AIM-7F level. Besides, this thing is 11.3, not a 12.0 top tier jet, and can therefore still see 10.3 downtiers.
Hmmm... its the pilot, not the plane... Calling it trash is completely unfair, you are playing with it the wrong way... But I guess it's Gaijin fault for not giving you more objectives than just playing a quick deathmatch where only high maneuvers planes will perform better????
Really? For 11.3 it's really good, it's better then the fg 1 which is decent, maybe don't compare it solely to 12.0s? Compared to most 11.3s it's just better at everything except dogfighting and you can't judge a 'top tier' on dogfighting ability, if it was 11.7-12.0 it would be meh though I guess
This is the problem with current wt TH-camrs, they will be left in the dust once more and more 4th gen aircraft are introduced. It might come as a shock but dogfighting isn't the majority of modern air combat, probably less than 1/4 of air battles devolve into dogfights.
You do have to take into consideration that the plane will face those uptiers. Looking at raw data it may not be a fair comparison but how a vehicle deals with its neighbouring tiers is a huge part in how it performs
As someone who was planning on putting a tali on one of the FG's to grind this piece of trash, thank you. Im no longer interested in this dumpster fire. Kurnass grind here we go!
Ok i will proceed to ignore everything you have said, grind the tornado, find out its shit despite this videos warning, then complain that you never warned me jokes aside im gonna grind this thing because im effing bored of the phantom
Gaijin in terms and conditions got point about not showing RP/SL multipliers? Almost all youtubers working with g-jin not showing stats screen short after they get their 3% code.
Funny how these online competitive games always get super-realistic when adding British equipment but live in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to the Russian stuff. 🤔
I’ve also told people, The only thing this plane is supposed to do is bvr fight with its radar and radar missiles, but it only gets 2 aim9L’s to start, and no radar missiles until your 4th unlock, and no chaff until your 5th unlock, and it’s supposed best radar in game required a greater velocity distance than ANY other top tier radar, meaning all the enemy has to do is notch you and you loose radar lock. And despite having an SRC mode for look-up, enemies going your same velocity STILL can’t be locked on. It’s the worst implemented plane this patch by FAR At least it’s 11.3, the occasional Downtier will be vital to retaining sanity…
The F3 tornado is for air to air. How to you suppose I play this? and if you say "like an interceptor" then explain to me how what you describe is unique to the tornado and how it is better at it than something else.
@@SeekerHead High, fast and using the strong engines and missiles to their maximum potential, BVR with lots of energy. Then to avoid any incoming missiles you use the fuck ton of flares and chaffs you’re given rather than pulling off a flashy manoeuvre. Thats the reason it has such a good radar (or its supposed to have), for long range attacks not dog fights.
@@unlimitedtimez341 And what happens if the people you are shooting have a brain and defeat you bvr missile and flare your aim9L ? You just get killed. Reading the comments i assume that the player like you are the monkeys that never see late game because they are dead long before. But when you are good you see late game dogfights quite often where you are just a free kill if someone as a brain in the other team in this thing wich is super-frustrating.
Your engines are absolute garbage, the plane loses energy super easy, it’s slow etc. “BVR with lots of energy” Literally everything else can do it better than you, better flight performance and unless they’re using the regular skyflash - better missiles. “just use countermeasures bro” Okay but you have to turn your plane 90 degrees to the incoming radar in order to actually successfully chaff. The tornado often times literally cannot even turn in time. I also told you to explain to me how what you describe is unique to the tornado and how it can do it better than the competition. It can’t, it isn’t unique to the tornado. literally any jet can play like that and do it infinitely better with better missiles, flight performance and radar. You’re coping. The tornado sucks
The new f-4s phantom 3 is great. I had alot of trouble against f14s and such . I easily beating mig 29 and f 16 hahaha. I also have my secret way of pissing off pc players . I started as a xbox user and recently I bought a gaming computer and I still use the Xbox for ground rb but for arb I use the pc and it's still shows me as a console player and they think they can bully me like always until they over shoot me ND I hit them with a aim 7
That's been my experience so far as well. FGR2 feels way batter than the tornado. Gaijin should give aim9l to the FGR2 because top tier UK is just unbearable.
![The MOST *Balanced* Plane in WT💀| [STOCK] EUROFIGHTER Grind Experience!🔥(Snail FORCED Me to do...)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZZ7G4n0GO8A/mqdefault.jpg)
this wasn’t supposed to be uploaded yet…
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well shit
👹👹👹👹☠️☠️☠️☠️💀💀💀💀💀🗿🗿🗿🗿🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨
L
You and Joob posted at the same time lol
To call this a missile bus would be to direspect the agility of a bus
So true, king
Kurnass 2000 enters chat: thank you sir
@@lafosh7234 Kurnass is like the guh version of the Phantom so eh.
@@xSupra I’m having much fun with it
@@xSupra kurnass is the new Israeli phantom right? I just called it a worse EJ Kai. But hey who and I to judge... It gets a funny refueling probe.
It is an interceptor and usually interceptor aircraft don’t do well in the dogfight meta we are in.
Just look a the original MiG-23 on release and F-104s. All interceptors aren't that good.
Mig-21s are interceptors too and they are good in game. It depends
@@Dertava02 they are not specialized interceptors, rather point-defense fighters, it would be like calling the Spitfire or Phantom II an interceptor, as the MiG-21 was essentially built to roughly the same ideas of air superiority over a localized space. Specialized interceptors in Soviet service were usually much heavier aircraft, think the Firebar, Fishpot, Flagon, Foxbat etc.
@@Dertava02 yeah I never knew the mig-21 was a interceptor because of it’s capability’s of a fighter
But the F104/Mig 23 actually had an advantage, they were fast and had good acceleration. The other top tiers have speed, acceleration and turn rate over the F3 so it doesn’t really shine anywhere
MiG-31 would absolutely smoke this thing in a fight, we should have gotten that instead of the Yak41
This vehicle would be amazing if it was where it belongs… at 10.7
OOOOR
Gaijin could do something really cool, and actually decompress the BR’s
Make 13.3 the new Top BR
F-16, F-14 and Mig-29 can all go there, and everything trickles down, move the A-10 and SU-25 to 10.0, the A-4e to 9.0 and put this at 11.7
Boom, the game would be SOOOOO much more playable
And as an Italian main, idc about the gaps I’d have in my tree, I’d take having a fun time over filling every gap in the air
Then there would be space for things like the F-111, the F-102/106, the F-101 and many other aircraft
While allowing the more CAS focused planes to hold their own in the air
But that would mean the game is fun, and people wouldn’t buy golden eagles and premium time
So
Gaijin won’t do that
The fact is that people don’t consider that 👏THE 👏 TORNADO 👏 WAS 👏 NOT 👏 DESIGNED 👏 TO 👏 BE 👏 A 👏 FIGHTER 👏. It was an interceptor, its job was to takeoff, go fast, climb, go fast, shoot a bomber with a missile, go fast, turn around and go home fast. Ok, it will not make the UK competitive in the game but I don’t get why people would be mad that an interceptor is not competing with a air superiority fighter like the mig29 or the f16
Edit: i would add great video anyways, keep up with the good work.
Those are people who are using a dirt bike to compete in the Isle of Man race and wonder why they can’t win cause they are on a « shitty bike »
Draken is an interceptor too and it’s No brick. Admit it, the tornado airframe is hot dogshit
@@DangerousSkyFel0n the FW190 A-8 is an interceptor too and can’t energy fight a Canberra, interceptor < bombers ?
You find this statement dumb ? Well think about comparing a Drakken to a Tornado… if you play your tornado the same way you use a Drakken no wonder why it is so bad. But it’s not the plane !
It clearly needs a buff, but it’s certainly not awful, with a little effort you can easily get 4 kills.
It needs to go faster and be more sable, maybe it could turn better but you have thrust reversal which is a really powerful tool in dogfight. It’s like an Harrier, it’s useless to dogfight if you don’t use vtol commands. Here I would say it’s basically the same thing.
I believe they gave us the worst radar possible for this plane, there is a later upgrade that people wanted and they didn't give it. They'll likely add that as a separate plane with AMRAMMS.
Look at the YAK141, tiny wings with a bricky airframe. Yes it is lighter than the Tornado, but not that much. The Yak141 can pull like 13G easily and it a great dogfighter, yet the Tornado even with its wings fully forward barely pulls 7G.
The Tornado has a terrible flight model where it lacks a significant amount of lift at all speeds. If you fly the Tornado at around 250mph (400kph) even with the wings fully out it will literally start to fall out of the sky, it has zero lift. Irl the Tornados had a stall speed of only 185kph, if that dosent show how lacking it is in lift then idk what does.
I dont wanna be one of these brit mains who acts like the Tornados should be able to dogfight an F16, but the fact the plane is effectively allergic to staying in the air clearly isn't right...
All Brit mains want is an aircraft that actually performs in line with reality. Thing is, by the time this thing gets corrected, we’ll have SU27PUs, F15s and Rafales, and the Brits/Germans will have to wait 6 months to a year for the Eurofighter to arrive. That’ll then be awful and underperforming on release, and by the time it’s fixed we have F22s and F35s. Thus is the cycle that the British tech tree has gone through ever since the Javelin was released.
The 141 should not be as maneuverable as it is. Gaijins modeling is absolutely shit
@@therealwildboar1007 I've not played for that long, but that sounds accurate according to my experience. I got to top tier jets in Britain only to find out I shouldn't have bothered. Well at least I got the Harrier GR7 for CAS, until Gaijin jacks up its BR so high it'll be a whole BR above any tanks...
The tornado is not going to be pulling with any other vehicle.
How a plane "looks" has nothing to do with how it flies. Just look at the j8b, for example.
Long or short wings don't matter that much, lift is only one of the factors of maneuverability. Instability, wing loading, thrust to weight ratio, wing design and Angle of Attack: all of these make maneuverability either alone or combined in balance. (only that I've learn through playing KSP in a potato laptop lol)
the Tornado has a low TWR and only starts accelerating at high speeds when the wings swept back generate less drag, when this is done the Center of Lift is far behind the Center of Mass, causing it to be too stable to turn
the Yak 41 has a crazy TWR, has delta wings(which generate a lot of AoA) are lighter and will carry half the missiles the average tornado wil, sure it's very probable it turns more than it did IRL, but it's still nore of a fighter than the tornado, also i'm not sure when the F.3 even vamr out but the Yaj 41 was made with modern avionica from the late 80's and 90's, may have something to do with it, may not idk
I understand that its not a good dogfighter, but having a turning radius bigger than the sun is just bs...
K that one's funny. Way better than the time we were saying tornado strike version was worse than a bus
maybe people should do some reading on this thing before assuming it was gonna be good in the first place. Thing had NO radar when it was deployed and got its ass kicked by a F-4ICE on a regular
@@VectorGhost heh
@@VectorGhost Wrong. The F.2 variant got out to squadrons for training without radars at first but the didn't get deployed until they got radars. They got beaten by F-4ICEs not because the F-4 was a better platform but because they got AMRAAMs before the Tornado due to the MOD being short on cash after the Nimrod farce and a number of other things. Please fact check what you say before you make yourself look dumb.
When you're talking about turning with the wings swept back and the nose pitches but the fighter wants to keep going straight that would be Angle of Attack (AoA)
no that’s not quite what i was trying to describe
@@SeekerHead in the video you say your nose is often different than your velocity vector, that's the definition of angle of attack
I mean in level flight though, I thought angle of attack was when you're actually moving the nose
@@SeekerHead it just refers to the angle between your nose and your velocity vector. It's most noticeable in hard turns, but it's common in level flight at low speeds. The best example I can think of is carrier take off and landings
When @@SeekerHead said the Tornado feels like it falls out the sky with swept wings I totally understand what he means, it makes me question the flight model of the Tornado Vs the Mig-23, they are built quite similar in shape, square fuselage and wings on top etc, but the Tornado handles soooo much worse, wings forward or back. It also overloads it's wings much more easily than any other jet, it's like they forgot to do the x1.5 multiplier on airframe g limit.
1:18 not only that they really expect us to unlock all rank 7 vehicles to get access to the most ass vehicles in the game
Ah, yes let me go ahead and get two identical mediocre phantoms on 2 entierly separate lines that are both painfull to grind just to get another shitbox, Lovely.
This is what happens when you make an aircraft realistic.
Gr.1: It's a bomber stop crying !!!!111!!1!
F.3: It's an interceptor stop crying!!!!1!1!!!11
well, people in this comment section are failing to realize that you can't actually play like an "interceptor" in this game. there are no bomber targets to "intercept". Instead you have to intercept fighters.
it's "interceptor" capabilities are massively worse compared to any other top tier planes that aren't even interceptors.
try to bvr like an actual "interceptor"? immediately get knocked out by am aim7f or a r27er which are better in every way compared to the supertemps....
try to hit and run? it can't outrun anything....
try climbing? good luck doing that against tomcats...
so stop saying "play it like an interceptor", because it is shit, even at intercepting. it can't dogfight. it can bvr but is at a massive disadvantage.
As usual for British vehicles they left it far too late and added it with a fucked flight model and equipment. It should have been in game before the Tomcat.
Unfortunately this is probably it for top tier Britain until they get around to adding the eurofighter, which likely won't come until a patch or two after America and Russia have something better than it.
They could easily justify a Commonwealth F-16 based on the rules they've used for certain other nations, but I doubt they'll bother.
seems more like a skill issue ngl
hes turnfighting and dogfighting in a interceptor, its honestly making me cringe.
@@_dtankshooter try to play like an interceptor. Some dude is going to force you down and you aren’t able to do anything about it because every other top tier plane is just better at everything. Good luck
@@_dtankshooterwhile thats true and valid, it really should be much better at turn fighting and dogfighting than it currently is, so all the points Seek makes are still reasonable
Interceptor gameplay is pretty mid at end tier at best.
@@_dtankshooter ...... This is War Thunder. If you try to avoid a turn fight, you're just gonna eat a missile anyway
Supertemps just got their actual performance changes after this too
Edit: I should add the changes make it 37% faster than the normal skyflash
Yep. Figured it was gonna be like this. If I was in a squad, I'd still play it over the FGR.2/FG.1 for the extra BVR ability due to my playstyle, but I'm under no illusions about its merge ability. Only hope for this thing is to put the wings out, put the combat flaps down, get it to around 900 km/h, keep it there, and pray...
A top tier jet with kinematic performance worst than a Mirage F1. I am amazed. Shocked even.
If I had a dollar for every time gaijin introduced a British intercepter and forced it to fight as a fighter I’d have enough for a kfc. Which ain’t a lot but it’s a fair few
Plays an interceptor as a fighter and wonder why the plane is bad.
Tornado rudder makes it wonky, guns are unusable, and it should reach its historical of 1500 km/h at sea level.
A part of that he’s not so bad, now he is having a air air loadout
Mig-21 is an interceptor, f-14 is an interceptor, mig-23 is an interceptor they are all good at dogfighting. Tornado is just a very bad air craft
you cant really even call the tornado an interceptor. its just a revamp of the original bomber tornado but with air to air capability. the original chassis is still of a ground attacker
@@speedtime1218 Only in War thunder, in Rl the Pilots a praising its stabillity and abillity to outperform other planes of its time in low level flight. Well gajjin its all about ruasian an american thiungs i guess XD we have a military airfiled here we know how the pilots describe it and this thing doesnt behave in the game nearly as good as in rl XD I hate Gyjin for that they did to the first really german toptier outside of copy and paste :(
@@speedtime1218 All those planes you mentioned were also designed to be air superiority fighters, the Tornado wasn't... Just accept the fact that the Tornado isn't a turn fighter and should be WAY faster than all those jets in game near the deck. But Gaijin will be Gaijin.
@@Luisasophie163 huge cap lol
Instead of 9Ls it just has Ls
🤓
🤓
@@Adam2422 yes, love
this speaks volumes. all this work and new aircraft. the best aircraft in the game is still 11.7 unbelievable
Isn't the mig 29 the best
@@kohlshu8979 the best aircraft in the game is the f-14
@@andrewdiresta8416 Maybe as a full package in Air RB, but if you’re comparing ACM flight performance, NOTHING touches the F-16 assuming two pilots of equal skill and complete understanding of the aircraft they’re flying
@@andrewdiresta8416 That's hard to believe when the 29 has ERs
@@andrewdiresta8416 F-14,best aircraft 😂
Seeker would you say the harrier gr7 is still a better top tier fighter than the tornado f3?
obviously, not even close
@@BeezeeBD actually not mad about the tornado as I am very fond of the harrier
@@BeezeeBD Is it really so obvious? The Harrier turns better and stays in the sky better. Sure you don't get any SARHs but you won't be getting any kills with them against a competent opponent anyway. Lastly while the Tornado IS fast than the Harrier neither of them can actually run away from any of the planes they are fighting so it doesn't really matter.
@@commandoepsilon4664 so you’re agreeing with him? Why question if it’s really obvious then prove it is
@@Iniesta970 I may have misinterpreted what he was saying now that you point that out...
I read it as 'obviously not even close' but that comma my brain skipped completely changes the meaning of what he said.
I think the issue is that the Tornado was never designed to be a dogfighter. It was more designed to fly high and fast, patrolling large areas of airspace for Soviet bombers. It was always going to be a terrible dogfighter. It's just too fat.
well its not fast either
@@missing_nickname its fast if you dont have piles of bombs and missiles on it. Should be capable of M2.2/1500+ mph
@@missing_nickname With a full load it's a lot faster than any of the actual fighters, don't know about this on but the IDS can bomb two bases and carry 2 missiles all while going as fast if not faster than fighters just with missiles. It's a great bomber but the game isn't built for bombing
Gimped a radar more powerful than the F-15’s, gimped missiles halfway between the performance of an Aim-7F and R-27ER. Gaijin I am disappointed in you.
It's British, they hate Britain
Looks like we'll have to wait for the typhoon lmao
South African gripen when?
Once Italy gets it I’m grinding it just cause I love the tornados looks but yeah it’s a absolute pain to fly
@@Pionel_pessi. Si the ground attack version
6:31 it’s called AoA, angle of attack.
And who tf said that planes that can’t dogfight are bad?
Retards think that. He didn't consider thst Tornado wasn't made for Turning (like most jets lol. Energy maneuverability is a last resort when BVR didn't work)
In todays War Thunder not being able to dogfight is fine but completing your 180 turn in radius of a country isn't
as he said the tornado is great for bombing, but as a fighter (like this version of the tornado was supposed to be) it is dogshit
@@skonke4739 yo, a reminder.
“Fighter” does not mean “DOGfighter”. At least not only that. “Fighter” also means “interceptor”.
@@TheFlyingPancakeReal typical tornado fanboy lmao. the tornado may be the best plane in real life but in the end of the day, in war thunder, its absolutely shit. both this and the ground attack variant
Seek trying his absolute hardest to call every mid/decent british jet garbage:
it is garbage
@@SeekerHead skill issue
Please tell me how to make your pitch up and down as S and W I can't figure out how
I’d hope that the flight model gets changed a bit bc it shouldn’t be THIS bad like it is no mig29 but it shouldn’t be this awful
First off, the reason I believe he’s calling it complete trash is that he’s playing it incorrectly, he’s flying head on into the match and attempting to turn fight, three words, flank and spank, get up to 860 mph and flank the map and kill whatever you find on the edge of the map, for this aircraft your need to play very passively and never try and turn fight unless the enemy is distracted. So no this thing is not complete garbage if you play it correctly, my data to back this up is that I have the plane and I have nearly a 3 to one kd
I dont really understand the surprise at a missile bus being a fucking bus. The entire philosophy of the ADV going very fast in a straight line and chucking missiles at a squadron of german bombers. It is not, and will never be, a dogfighter.
Whats the point for Gaijin make this plane this freaking awful? I remember when at the very beginning of the tanks, they tried hard to make tanks pretty accurate behavior, armor etc (like they were in real life) and now just became kind of an arcade game. I bet my testicles that the Tornado is not a brick in real life…
In simulator however, on the Sinai map, this thing is DOMINATING. Due to the allies being sooooo much more powerful + the new Sinai map which is a good addition, im regularly seeing this thing have between a 8-6KD
It's not dogshit. Your playing it like a dogfighter which is not. It's a skill issue on your end. It's an interceptor not a turn fighter
right, let me just go intercept the AI every game. My b
@@SeekerHead didn't say u had to but your complaining that a plane that was designed for its sole reason to be an interceptor cant turn Is stupid. It's not bad you just can't fly it so u blame the plane
ok but for the interceptor role it still sucks there are 3 definite maybe 4 planes that do bvr and intercepting better than it. and u can't intercept every single game and once you are pushed out of intercepting by better planes you eventually have to merge with aircraft its how the game works and then once you merge you are dead it is simply not a good aircraft.
U have to play to it's strengths. It's basically a boom and zoom plane. Keep up your speed fire missiles at range then run. Simple. I've been doing fine in it
@@why-ls5ji yes but my point is that there are 3 planes that do that better now even 4 or 5 debatable but those planes can also turn in and dogfight and have incredible performance and its not even like the tornado is the fastest in the game the mig 29 and f-16 will run it down.
This plane is not great that's true but it's not unusable. I would recommend Tim's variety review, it's much better, and I like Seek but Tim just did a much better job this time and that's that.
nothing at top tier is “unusable” it’s brain dead missile combat. As long as a plane has 30G missiles it can see kills. That doesn’t change the fact that is objectively worse in every metric than all of its competition. Giving some broad “strategy” for the tornado such as flying to the edge of the map, staying fast, and 3rd partying the furball is not unique to the tornado. that’s just how you’re supposed to play top tier. and if u do that same thing with literally any other 11.3, the other ones can do exactly that but be better at it in every way. people just get off to the elitism of claiming shitty planes “can be good if you just play it like me man, you’re flying it wrong it’s an INTERCEPTOR!!!!”
@@SeekerHead I agree, but you also must consider, there were indeed interceptors and just because some machine is unsuited for WT furball meta does not mean it should be never played. When people come to youtube to search specific machine it's because they often LIKE it and in that case, telling me how it's crap might be counter-productive for you as CC, me as a player and the state of the game /meta in general. Be objective OK but also give me the positives of the machine and tell me how to exploit them the best. Positive approach sells.
“positive approach sells” Thts the issue. I’m not trying to sell you on anything like other people. If that’s what you’re looking for then yeah other creators would sell things to you a lot better than me. I’m about telling people how it is, and they can decide what they want to do based on my assessment. Last thing I want is for someone like yourself to love the tornado, see it in game, go buy a $70 premium to try to grind for it, just to find out it is boarder-line unplayable compared to its competition. I don’t want to leave ANYONE with the impression that this plane can be made or confused as “good” if you play it a certain way or do a certain thing. Will you be better off using common sense playstyles that should be a given at top tier for any jet? Yes. But take absolutely any scenario, and change that scenario out with another plane, and u get a better result. That my friend, is the definition of a dumpster fire vehicle in WT. i’m not going to bullshit you and give you some crap assessment of “it’s an interceptor - play it like one” when that means absolutely nothing other than the plane is “good” at killing pre-occupied enemies. News flash, everything is - and they do it better. And how that is even “playing like an interceptor” is beyond me but this community is generally pretty braindead so idk man.
@@SeekerHead Again, you're not wrong and I never said you should BS people but consider this - if we would play only meta-efficient planes in WT, the game would be poorer and bleak for that and 75% of all tech trees would never be played. This is more than just a frag chase, every of plane we see in WT has a history, a place in the world that elevates it more than just being brainless shooter fodder. I generally spade ALL of my vehicles, ground of air alike cause I just like them all in their own way, yes even the crap ones. Consider that many ppl actually get an adrenaline kick from doing really well in piss-poor planes. I'm spading squad SU-22 atm, great lil plane but NOT at 12.0 it almost exclusively gets sucked into, and you know what, I've killed 2 fkkin MiG 29's in game recently and I've felt like a king : ) Find a positive approach, realistic, but positive "yes this vehicle is crap HOWEVER this is what you can do ....." - that's the best advice for the CC you will ever get.
And I do that, the issue is in the tornado the is, once again, absolutely nothing you can do. Your gameplay 100% relies on ur enemies incompetence, not any strength of your plane. Unless you want me to go over the common sense way to play any top tier vehicle every single video. But i’m not going to do that of course that’s just repetitive and by the time you’re at top tier you should know it anyway. There is such thing as a bad plane that have 1 or 2 good characteristics about it you can mention. The tornado has 0, outclassed in every metric. I’m not going to pretend there’s anything you can do to play it better. it’s all about what the enemy does, not you
Simply put skill issue: love the tornado
Less manuverable than the tornado?
What about the 104s for italy?
Yes, less maneuverable than the f104s
Historically, the A-5 Sabre was probably the worst TT vehicle ever in the game. How does the viability of a 9.0 A-5 compare to the Tornado?
I heard you say "British Mains"... I'm afraid I'm going to have to unsub for such terminology :^(
Watching this thing flop around as all speeds while simply rolling left and right already hells me how godawful it feels to fly
Is it me or do missiles don't seem to work? Today I fired at a f4c with a magic (a5c) and didn't even track. Of course maybe because it then turned towards me but it was at least 2.3km away
When do u think the uk will get some good fighters? I’m a uk player and ngl I hate my tech tree so much it could be so good but gajin just doesent seem to care that much
Eurofighter?
There's still plenty of Time for that
Never, the Eurofighter was pretty mid until the later variants. And the later variants will fight F-15Es, SU-35s, ect.
They can get the Atlas Cheetah
@@TheDAWinz euro fighter was mid??? Explain, still would be incredibly manoeuvrable and would have aim120s and aim9L/Ms etc
Bro tip if u get in a dodfight and arent killed in 2 seconds just do your best to run away
Thank you for flying the Tornado so that I don't have to .
If you pop air brakes you pull 10gs though
Another brit player here, was super excited for this aircraft but wow, it is the biggest pile of crap I've flown yet, was hoping the radar and missiles would make it at least fun given it has the turning radius and flight characteristics of a stalling airbus but nope not even the radar seems to do it justice.
Back to waiting on harrier no.x or god forbid nothing till the euro fighter releases in several updates.
Wouldn't mind a bae hawk though :)
this is another example of gaijin fucking up a flight model Mig-29s low speed manoeuvrability is a fraction of what it should be and tornado while being an interceptor should turn better than this
The best tornado still the IDS at 10.7 just makes it the best top tier grinder, u should fear more your teammattes than your enemy
Britain can't stop taking Ls😰
British main here on my way to coping with this update. It should be noted that you can use reverse thrust mid air in conjunction with the air brake, flaps, and prayer, to maybe provide an interesting kill for the enemy. Very disappointed in the F3’s performance overall in game, but I still fly it because I still think it’s a cool ass aircraft. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s place within the meta shifts at all when we get ASRAAMS, AMRAAMS, and the like. Even in those circumstances it would still at best be a missile bus. Overall, good and honest coverage of the least dangerous natural disaster currently in game.
I think with the way it's radar was performing in the clips, any missiles requiring a radar lock will be useless.
I only ever play sim, and I thought the F.3 would be better than it is! I knew it was never going to be a dogfighter, but I thought the radar would be much better, and that with BVR in sim, it might make it a bit more competitive.
I think they got the performance side of the aircraft pretty spot on and I completely agree with you about the radar. It is such a disappointment, as it was the one thing I thought would make it reasonably competitive in sim. It loses lock so easily and when it does, it even struggles to pick up the contact again at all. And all the while, the enemy has maintained a consistent lock on you.
Another big disadvantage from a sim point of view is it not having a target designator symbol (box, diamond or circle) in the HUD when you have a radar lock. Like the F-14, F-16 and MiG 23 has in game. The F.3 definitely had one in real life, so I don't know why Gaijin didn't give it one in the game. We all know its not the best aircraft, but a least give it what it had in real life! Its not like its an aircraft that needs nerfing, right? 😂
If they improve the radar and its lock ability, and add the target designator symbol in the HUD, it might be OK for sim. However I can completely understand you RB players wanting nothing to do with it though!
The problem is RB playerbase only define things by its turning capabilities...its an interceptor not a fighter it was made for MR to LR engagements...
And? It makes it a shit plane in top tier air because it can't turn well enough to get its nose on target. You're not going to be BVR fighting all match unless you play like a passive rat
@@xSupra Its not a "passive rat" is using the plane as intended,some machines just cant do everything and its doesnt classify them as bad ...in SB top tier we bad see each other,most combat is BVR,we only do ACM if we dont have BVR capabilities tho the tornados in SB are capable of doing decent ACM with FCA off...
@@M0LOCK Oh boy an SB rat. No one gives a shit about the Tornado F3 in sim except for the 5 bacteria living on the servers for Air SB.
@@xSupra damn man why all that anger calling me a SB rat...is it normal for point and clickers that think they have skills but rely 90% on game assists... The day RB players actually use theyr aircraft isntead of all those assists you guys can call all the ppl in world rats until there stop complaining when you guys use certain types of aircrafts for wrong tasks...
@@M0LOCK You are an Air SB rat. I know it's tough but only you and the 5 bacteria on the servers care about Air SB. You can't even realize why the Tornado being unable to effectively turn in an ARB match makes it a garbage plane. The missiles aren't superior to others, the radar isn't vastly superior to others. It's a shit plane in TT Air RB (mind you the mode being displayed in the video, SB IIRC was never brought up) and no playstle will fix it unless you want to be a passive shitter.
They have to do 2 things: 1 give AIM-120A for the Tornado OR for these salty that dont like the idea of Fox 3 missiles they have to Buff the skyflash Supertemp
Maybe the active Skyflash would be a better option than the AMRAAM rn
@Galaxygm that's what I'm thinking, it would give the tornado the opportunity to turn away and avoid merging as that's it main weakness while not being as game breaking as an amraam would be
i love my germane navy tornado as bomber and ship killer. usually i use external fuel to climb, bomb a base with 5 bombs,drop another 3 bombs at ground targets and try to hit 2 planes with AIM9L. if i get back to airfield it was a perfect round already. sadly the tornado is not as manoeurvrable as in reallife.
at this rate the uk needs the eurofighter but that wont do shit as it will probs be really bad as we all know gaijin hates britain so might aswell get rid of the nation
Because I thought things were a bit.. familiar I went ahead and compared the F14’s radar file and the tornado’s radar file. And surprise surprise, aside from the range and gimbal limits the values relevant to actual acquisition and maintaining locks are the exact same. So if you’re curious as to why even a monkey can notch you, that’s why.
Im still on the opinion that if a plane that’s in the game right now could have some variant of the AIM-120 it’s the tornado. This would also imply that it gets the radar capable of using the 120, which should be a lot better
I'm thinking theres going to be a "late" version, the radar and weapons systems on the F3 were steadily improved over its service life with such a shift in capability its hard to see how you could ballance both ends of the spectrum in one vehicle.
Thats pretty much all Tornados, Turing is a pain, and if you slightly turn as you did, you rip your wings or slap yourself into a mountain side.
Maybe you should take a break bro. You sound so burned out and only annoyed by the game. No offense man but this style of videos is probably not what most people are here for.
I'm just covering the shitty patch vehicles
Sorry for the 512th double team in the beginning of the video. But I agree with your synopsis of the Tornado.
Italy better than UK confirmed
bro, have some mercy on this poor thing :(
Its sad to see how bad the Tornado is in this game.
EC maps are gonna make grinding easier or longer if i intend to bomb bases?
longer
@@minibox4049 how come?
@@s.arguedsatsuma2769 they put the bases right in the middle of the map on those "new" ec maps, if you rush for it you will easily be intercepted by an enemy, and if you wait and go around your team might completely vanish by the time you are done bombing
@@s.arguedsatsuma2769 target base are pretty far away, and once you get close enough someone probably is on the way to intercept you on your way back
Also it just yknow
Takes longer to get there
Comparing this to the mig25 hurt my soul. At least the mig25 has speed
So true
Yak-141 exists and you think this is Bad? Its like people that used to say phantom was bad cuz it couldnt turn with mig-21, even tho it was the best jet in game
I played it for 8hr straight on patch day. Just no. Slower, less acceleration, inferior SARH, negative instantaneous and rated turn.
lets see. currently the EJ Kai is:
- better at accelerating
- better at top speed
- better gun (M61)
- better radar (APG-66)
- better kit (Aim-9L + Aim-7F)
- wayyy better at turning
- colder engine
but yeah the tornado is definately better because of skyflash right? 🤣
I dont think Tornado f3 better that ej kai, it similar. Skyflash supertemp equal aim7f, both of them have aim 9l, ej kai have a better radar but tornado have sweep wing , if you fully spead wing out and use the flap you can wing out turn ej kai.
Better then the EJ? Bruh 🗿
Trying to dog fight with an interceptor and not having a good time is like shitting your pants and complaining it smells all the time.
You know what else is an interceptor? The draken. Let that sink in
@@DangerousSkyFel0n would love to see how a draken does against a mig 29 or f-16 in either a dogfight or BVR
Gaijin gave the tornado the worst variant of the radar developed for it. In real life the Type W radar was so shit, engineers and pilots found 40 bugs on it. The best version of the radar is the Type Z stage 2.
I don't know why gaijin didn't want to give it it's best radar variant but it's gaijin were talking about they have one rule for one jet another rule for another jet
Atleast my 104S and 104ASA had speed and small gimmicks to help (like a crazy fast roll) and the addition of countermeasures
This Tornado literally sucks
Tornado in War Thunder: 🤡
Real life Tornado: 😈
So 2 funny things: the radar is completely scuffed in game (with somehow the same stats as the F14s but completely worse) and they gave it the wrong skyflashes (the ones that were in game years ago and had been removed because of the introduction of the Dogfight Skyflash which means the normal skyflashes are basically worse than Aim-7E)
We need even further decompression. Some planes could be slightly more useful if they didn't have to face F-16s and Mig-29s all the time.
But not the Tornado. That thing needs decompression and a whole FM overhaul because Jesus Christ, it's terrible.
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JK, I got a 5 kill game on it the other day, so it's perfectly balanced...
And people say the f16 turn radius is bad 💀
Made me wanna get this plane
It's so bad it could run AIM120's and still have a negative kd
I mean is not gaijin fault, this tornado was not meant to be a dogfighter so...
It's not shit, it's still useable. It's essentially a better FGR.2/FG.1, but with less acceleration. As usual, gaijin has fucked up its FM. It should be somewhat faster than it is, as well as the radar being buggy as fuck (expected as it's a british plane as usual). You're also playing this thing like a damn F-16 or something lmao
I just can't agree that it's better than the FG phantoms. Its flight performance is worse in every metrics, they both have shitty radars, the 9L and the 9G are very similar now that the 9L isnt as flare resistant, and the skyflash temp is only a single step above the skyflash. Overall id rather have the FG, the nose actually goes where I want it to when I need it to
@@SeekerHead It probably depends on playstyle. When i flew the FG.1, i never took the gunpods, as the drag was horrible. Without the pod, i could easily reach 1400km/h on deck. I find the F.3 to be very similar, except it doesn't have that nose authority, and it won't pull as hard since older jets can all pull better than the newer 4th gen for some reason. On top of that, the superTEMPs do work, but they're not AIM-7F level. Besides, this thing is 11.3, not a 12.0 top tier jet, and can therefore still see 10.3 downtiers.
i love hunting these in the F5, 2 turns and it's a brick
8 missile so 4 skyflashes and 4 aim9`ls are bad? What mroe do you want to it aim9x?
@HEAT he literally says at the end its absolute garbage...
Same kind of opinion from someone that’d claim that if you strap an AIM9X on a biplane that it should be 13.0 and would dominate the meta.
something that does more than 8 degrees/second
Hmmm... its the pilot, not the plane...
Calling it trash is completely unfair, you are playing with it the wrong way...
But I guess it's Gaijin fault for not giving you more objectives than just playing a quick deathmatch where only high maneuvers planes will perform better????
I mean it is exactly Gaijin’s fault for the reason that you specified.
tornado is slept on
it's objectively bad it should have been added in 2021
Slept on because it deserves to be slept on
Really? For 11.3 it's really good, it's better then the fg 1 which is decent, maybe don't compare it solely to 12.0s? Compared to most 11.3s it's just better at everything except dogfighting and you can't judge a 'top tier' on dogfighting ability, if it was 11.7-12.0 it would be meh though I guess
It always faces 12.0 because that's how the MM is. You rarely get 11.3 downtiers.
This is the problem with current wt TH-camrs, they will be left in the dust once more and more 4th gen aircraft are introduced. It might come as a shock but dogfighting isn't the majority of modern air combat, probably less than 1/4 of air battles devolve into dogfights.
You do have to take into consideration that the plane will face those uptiers. Looking at raw data it may not be a fair comparison but how a vehicle deals with its neighbouring tiers is a huge part in how it performs
@HEAT he just can except the f3 is trash. Ja 37, mirage 2k, f4j, mld,mla,ml will beat this f3 so hard lol
@@nhac2574 The F3 should've been added so long ago to have even the slightest chance of being competitive
As someone who was planning on putting a tali on one of the FG's to grind this piece of trash, thank you. Im no longer interested in this dumpster fire. Kurnass grind here we go!
Ok i will proceed to ignore everything you have said, grind the tornado, find out its shit despite this videos warning, then complain that you never warned me
jokes aside im gonna grind this thing because im effing bored of the phantom
Gaijin in terms and conditions got point about not showing RP/SL multipliers? Almost all youtubers working with g-jin not showing stats screen short after they get their 3% code.
Funny how these online competitive games always get super-realistic when adding British equipment but live in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to the Russian stuff. 🤔
I’ve also told people,
The only thing this plane is supposed to do is bvr fight with its radar and radar missiles, but it only gets 2 aim9L’s to start, and no radar missiles until your 4th unlock, and no chaff until your 5th unlock, and it’s supposed best radar in game required a greater velocity distance than ANY other top tier radar, meaning all the enemy has to do is notch you and you loose radar lock. And despite having an SRC mode for look-up, enemies going your same velocity STILL can’t be locked on. It’s the worst implemented plane this patch by FAR
At least it’s 11.3, the occasional Downtier will be vital to retaining sanity…
You should try it the new Israeli f4 it’s like ej kai on steroids
The Tornado is not and was never a fighter aircraft, its a mid altitude strike aircraft and thats it.
Bro how did he just release a video when i was thinking about him ?!??!??
Plane so bad it caused my phone to crash
Did they increase map size?
being mad that the tornado cant turn is like being mad the buccaneer cant dogfight. Thats not what its made for, you're using it wrong.
The F3 tornado is for air to air. How to you suppose I play this? and if you say "like an interceptor" then explain to me how what you describe is unique to the tornado and how it is better at it than something else.
@@SeekerHead High, fast and using the strong engines and missiles to their maximum potential, BVR with lots of energy. Then to avoid any incoming missiles you use the fuck ton of flares and chaffs you’re given rather than pulling off a flashy manoeuvre. Thats the reason it has such a good radar (or its supposed to have), for long range attacks not dog fights.
@@unlimitedtimez341
And what happens if the people you are shooting have a brain and defeat you bvr missile and flare your aim9L ?
You just get killed.
Reading the comments i assume that the player like you are the monkeys that never see late game because they are dead long before. But when you are good you see late game dogfights quite often where you are just a free kill if someone as a brain in the other team in this thing wich is super-frustrating.
Your engines are absolute garbage, the plane loses energy super easy, it’s slow etc. “BVR with lots of energy” Literally everything else can do it better than you, better flight performance and unless they’re using the regular skyflash - better missiles. “just use countermeasures bro” Okay but you have to turn your plane 90 degrees to the incoming radar in order to actually successfully chaff. The tornado often times literally cannot even turn in time. I also told you to explain to me how what you describe is unique to the tornado and how it can do it better than the competition. It can’t, it isn’t unique to the tornado. literally any jet can play like that and do it infinitely better with better missiles, flight performance and radar. You’re coping. The tornado sucks
The new f-4s phantom 3 is great. I had alot of trouble against f14s and such . I easily beating mig 29 and f 16 hahaha. I also have my secret way of pissing off pc players . I started as a xbox user and recently I bought a gaming computer and I still use the Xbox for ground rb but for arb I use the pc and it's still shows me as a console player and they think they can bully me like always until they over shoot me ND I hit them with a aim 7
Best plane Britain gets till the typhoon😢
Funny how the Tornado was bad and now apparently this is bad
What if we give it AMRAAMS?
Don’t you love the disrespect this game gives toward Britain😭
Would say spending all that ge to find out it's just more stale than bi planes and full of ai from gijin
Dude I have that fight on my end
I suck at rating so I just minimize my radius I've tried to get better my friend told me to stop trying we spent like a week
That's been my experience so far as well. FGR2 feels way batter than the tornado. Gaijin should give aim9l to the FGR2 because top tier UK is just unbearable.
Agreed 😢
the radar should be the strongest in the game, but it currently notches way easier than other top tier radars and barely locks at low altitude