Most likely because Niemann's surrogates were trying to leverage ad absurdum to argue that he must not have been cheating. Trying to distract from more plausible ways of cheating.
@@wormius51 *Exactly! Someone taking off their shoes with an unclean foot can clear a whole room whereas someone dropping their pants will get a room full of laughter depending on the size being put on displayed.*
Can confirm after several hours of teaching my foot how to use my smartphone I'm one step closer to realizing my chess cheating goals. Now to learn how to read my foots mind ...
@@r33thi think the other option is better because of development at the opponent's king as opposed to just gaining 1 extra point of material when the opponent takes your rook with the queen instead of running away and getting chased further by the bishop.
I find the random queen movements way fishier than finding the winning move. The winning move was hardish to spot but far from impossible even for me and I’m lower rated. Wouldn’t find it in blitz but for classical time controls maybe. But moving the queen twice to move her one square without a direct idea of what to do…
@ErR8229.. thats really not true and you know it a 400 elo player can cheat just like anyone else. . It's actually probably easy for c.c to catch cheaters at low elos. And they probably do cheat and have no clue how obvious it us.
@@WanderingMonarch yeah. in any sort of game, if you cheat you are more likely to win and if you win then you still get the same hit of dopamine for it because the game rewards an individual the same whether cheating or not. In FPS games this is satisfying kill effects with visual and audio cues and in chess it's of course 'outwitting' your opponent and checkmating. Additionally it can be thrilling to know you're doing something you're shouldn't be and getting away with it.
@@contextinvideos For me the ONLY thrill in chess is outwitting your opponent. If someone is taking that out by cheating then why are they even playing this game.
@@contextinvideos Wrong. Most normal people don't "get the same dopamine hit" when cheating... There would be zero feeling for me after cheating for a win in chess or an FPS... It is only losers that have no accomplishments in life or maybe emotionally stunted people who feel anything after winning by cheating in a game where nothing is on the line.
Honestly, I don't understand how is it possibly possible to use hidden in a sock phone to cheat on a tournament and not be noticed it must've be some sort of an ability.
@@kkb8510No you wouldn’t. Just go when things get complicated and memorize a few moves. Not that hard to grasp. Also some people regularly have to use the restroom so it’s not uncommon.
@kkb8510 True. Perhaps there is also a way to make an app that connects to stockfish somehow. Use Morse code. Say you want to play pawn a2 -> a4. (From square) - (destination square) .-..-.-.... Each period is a short vibrate. Each dash is a long vibrate. The first dot references it's the first file, the second set of dots represents the rank, the third set of dots the destination file, the fourth set of dots is the destination rank. If someone is keying in the game you can communicate each and every move this way
Pushing the pawn to f5 and attacking the knight isn't that crazy of a move imo. It immediately creates a threat that white needs to deal with instead of pondering what the white queen is going to do.
@@georgeritmeester4736 I don't see why not. Even a 300 player might consider it as they just look for the first move that gives them biggest advantage. Taking the knight that is.
Exactly. I did consider that move even previous to the rook exchange. I also did when he told us to pause. It was the first move I looked at but then I saw the free pawn on b4 and shifted to considering the queen taking it.
The combination starting Qxd3 was quite straightforward and I think a 1600 would likely find it in classical assuming they aren't in time trouble. f5 and the piece manouvering in the middlegame, on the other hand, were all quite suspicious and I highly doubt even a strong player would understand the concepts in a game, let alone be brave enough to play them.
It was intuitive for me and I don't think I'm quite at that level. But looking at it again... after Qxd3 Rxb4 Nxb4 Qxb4 Qd1+, can't White just block with the Knight instead (Ne1)?
@@la.zanmal.that’s what I thought too. The knight looks like it can’t be taken because a queen defends it, but Rd2 shuts that down and gets black the advantage on that one
I agree with your take on Qxd3, as a 1600F I would have calculated it for sure.. Now as for f5, I would argue that a 1650F is either too weak for such a move, or just too strong :) A lesser player (say 1400 to 1450F, especially children) could think "I am gonna lose some material there on the wing", and would by reflex counter-attack on material of equivalent or higher value... not really thinking too long about the weakening of their king side... A 1600+ player never plays that I think, especially against a titled player, unless they see an immediate tactical gain.
Another bit of evidence is that the 1700 had played 10 book moves successively. For a 2200 it's part of the job, but for a 1700, even with an opening course, and especially in a not forcing opening like this, this is highly suspicious.
9:22 why would Qd7 or Qd6 be a weird move? Was literally the first move that came into my mind. Putting pressure on the backward pawn and moving the queen out of the file with the opposing rook. Seems really logical to me. The only move i think is obviously an engine move is f5, because the logic behind that move just seems alot like an engine. You may consider it, because it attacks a piece, but who would actually play like that, thinking the king would be perfectly safe on f2 For all the other moves its not really hard to find reasoning. Qxd3 for example may seem like a comlicated tactical idea, but its classical time control and taking something should always be considered a candidate move. I myself am 1750 fide and i think i could find all of these moves individually. Could i find them all in a single game? Probably not, but if it hadnt been for the phone in his sock id give him the benefit of the doubt.
I don't get the point of cheating. If you cannot win on your own merits, then you shouldn't be competing. If you're doing it for the prize money, then it's more than cheating, that's stealing. Don't cheat at chess. It's disrespectful to the community, to your opponent and especially yourself.
I don't understand, I must be missing something. @ 12:11 What's wrong with the backwards knight move, Ne8 for white? It blocks the check and it's covered by the queen. It also clears a spot for the white bishop to move to which in turn, makes room for the king.
As a guy who's over the board strength would likely be about 1650. I would have to agree about the Qe8 immediately followed by Qf8 with no obvious reason why. The f5 move was a little less suspicious to me though that could be due to my playstyle can be summarized by "when in doubt play h4/h5" which leads me to losing many games when I don't castle.
I'm probably like 1100 and f5 didn't seem that wild to me. It was like 4th or 5th move I looked at personally. Chases the knight and fights for the center. No need to rush to take that pawn. Not sure what the time control was but if I was in a serious tournament and I had the time I'd potentially look at 5-6 candidate moves here. Some may look at f5 and be afraid for their king safety, but an aggressive player may enjoy such a move.
It doesn't work because the rook can go to e2 and block the queen from defending the knight and then if kf1 trying to defend the knight the black queen go to f2 and force the King back and then you capture the knight anyway
6:11 lol. It's not a "stockfish" thing. The reason you move the king is because if you do something like block with the bishop, the queen comes down to a7 and wreaks havoc (at least that's what I think).
Nope, naming and shaming would be a punishment. If you'd do that you'd have to reduce or entirely eliminate his suspension according to law. I would rather he doesn't play the coming years, than him playing on.
You do realize that at the time the allegations against Niemann were brought up, he was barely even legal? And here you are, insinuating about a 19 year old boy's anus. Disgusting.
Nelson, so I can understand, at 7:33 you said kind to h7 is the move in your mind, then at 8:00 (2 turns later) you say it’s a weird move. I just want to know why. Is it because the rook was in the way and safer to run that way? Or did you forget the queen was aligned and youre looking at the next moves in a critical way so you missed what should actually be played. Thats the vibe i get and not trying to come at you, just wanna learn
One of the worst things about cheating is that it places average players always under suspicion when they do actually have great games. You Masters are so stinking arrogant that you automatically assume we're cheating if we can beat you. Hans Niemann and others have ruined the game for all of us; not just the top level players.
@@ComplainingIsRecreation I was undefeated for my first 36 games. By that time I had won the local championship, had moved to a club in the national league, and was playing 2000+-players.
Pretty sad that people go to the extent of cheating. What’s the Motivation behind that? I don’t understand. Gotta say queen takes D3 was my instinct move though. It just looked appealing, (with no calculation).
@@Birdingtheorist Yes - would not be difficult for a coder. Very quiet buzz so only the person would be aware of it then some simple move code. For example indicate target square e.g at 5:04 send 6 then 5. This indicates a move to f5 - and there is only one choice. Sometimes it would be more ambiguous, but in most cases when told something has to go to a square and there is a choice one will stand out.
@@Birdingtheorist It must be a very complex cheat. I'm not sure how he inputs the moves into the engine. If the board is streamed on TV, he would need someone else helping him. But if it's only on the board, it must be way more complex, something like voice input or idk how.
They usually just go to the toilet to check their phones and get the best moves or lines. It said he was caught going to the toilet with a phone in his sock. Usually with most of these cheating cases they just check the engine a couple of times during the game.
Enrollment rating is not significant for actual performance rating. I am rated ZERO in FIDE Blitz and FIDE Rapid. Any FM assuming a walk over - is in for a surprise!😂
In The Netherlands every competition and tournament is rated - and there are many, many tournaments and competitions. So yes, ratings have very high significance, except for very young kids.
@@insightphoto You know, vibrate once for a knight. twice for a bishop something like that. theres a video on youtube where someone attached a vibrating device to his leg in a controlled environment and he was able to beat a grandmaster to illustrate how easy it was to cheat OTB
@@ItIsYouAreNotYour yea... maybe the first set of vibrations tell the square letter say A B G D .... and the next set tell the square number 1 2 3 ... theres a video here on youtube. someone has done it
Why is Kh7 a strange move when just one move before you were saying it's what you would play (and the queen didn't move)? Kinda funny, I actually did pick Qf8 at 10:30 in order to move Bc5 on a better square next.
*Why the heck would you hide the cheater name?? So, he can cheat on the rest of us?? That makes you as bad as the cheater! It means you condone his behavior since you don't want to expose him?? Knowing who the cheater is will mean that if I have to play him, I will be watching more carefully to make sure he doesn't cheat against me. It means I will put my guard up when playing this person. Otherwise, I'm relaxed when playing.* *Keep in mind the cheater brought this on himself, you don't own him any favor by keeping his name hidden.*
Did a little bit of detective work myself, pretty straight forward to figure it out with the information given in the article. What a silly sausage. Edit: what's really crazy is this game is still counted on his record as a win.
@@FlapjackMcGee Depends on the rules. He probably was not caught cheating in this game, so if the rules are not retroactive, but simply expulsion after being caught, that's that. Also, while In round-robin tournament it is ok to just annul all the games as if he never existed, in a Swiss system it is probably difficult to void all previous results - that could penalize innocent people.
I once played a guy in a tournament who was wearing some kind of electronic hearing aid, I lost, and when I analyzed the game at home he played almost all engine moves...
Nelson, all ur stuff is excellent. To be clear, I suck at chess. Have a 10 min time control of 800. However I spend a ton of time with puzzles, just because I enjoy them, and hover around 2400 over past few months. This vid makes me realize that a "puzzle guy" simply looks at position as a "state" without any grip on history. I had that pawn push ad an option of equal weight with other ideas. I 'liked it' for totally different / wrong intent, which was clearing knights out of way preventing any assault on opponents kings. Just interesting how much 'mindset' matters in evaluating and picking moves.
If the game is live streamed or published in real time, it is also possible to have outside help. There are mini earbuds that can be concealed, there are glasses that conduct vibrations via bone, and of course anal beads. It is stunningly easy to cheat if there is a live stream an if the tournament does not have near paranoid security measures such as x-ray or metal detectors.
@@bjornlangoren3002 come to think of it, a man did cheat using one of those methods during poker. He also had help from someone who actually worked at the poker event
Me at just 800 rating, i don't know, they are all way better moves than i play. For me, the king move looks suspicious. But i am wondering about Nelson's thinking at 7:30. He suggested Kh8 or Kh7 for black because the white Qb3 looks scary. What made him think that when Kh7 just the very next move was suspicious?
9:25 - Qd6 was actually one of my top 2 candidate moves with the idea of having some control over the d file, while still not removing the protection of e5. It also comes with the idea of exchanging queens, I don't know why I thought this idea was good. Thus I considered Qc5 as well. The third was the stupid Ba5, which might actually make some sense, but in the end I would have very likely played Qd6.
I saw the QD3 move but I didn't see why it was so good, and I was looking elsewhere. Maybe that's the difference, the cheat was in the selection.. like most of the moves I think were one of a range .. except the pawn F5 .. cmon. That was crazy..
Probably he just went to the toilet when there was a difficult moment, analysed as many lines as possible and came back. That explains why some moves weren't the best moves, too.
It's interesting how people find moves "suspicious." I didn't think anything was strange until king H7 at 9:48, I didn't think about that in that moment but earlier you did mention moving the king to H7 or H8 to prevent being put in check by the queen. I don't think it's strange typically if someone decided to play defensively later, not immediately. I know he did cheat in this case, but it's very interesting how someone can perceive the moves to be engine moves.
Cheating in a board game is not a criminal offense. Keep some perspective, please. Suspend him for a long time, I agree, but you don't have to ruin his life over a dumb mistake.
@@kylezo i know. when youre a little coward who needs to cheat you want to create a fake impression. because impressions matter, what other people think really matters. and instead of thinking youre a great player, they think youre just silly. thats unacceptable for little coward. disgusting ! the truth is often disgusting. but its still the truth. and those who want to censor the truth are truly disgusting. your silly outrage is disgusting !
For me the most suspicious part was the accuracy. The moves themselves looked pretty random (the fact that they were best moves is suspicious). I don't really know how to discern whether a move on its own is suspicious or not.
Terrible Olympics committee though. Let child rapists represent the country, but ban top golfers who qualify fairly and don't rape children from competing. Sorry, but every Dutch person needs to be shamed over this in the comments because that mindset in sports is not ok.
Harreman, Joeri is their name, for anyone wondering since Nelson wont reveal it. The match in the video is from the 5th round vs FM Van Baar, Esper. These cheaters dont deserve any mercy and the public should know who they are
10:40 Bb4 actually makes sense and I personally would have played it as it wins a tempo on the white rook alongside opening up the black rook on the d file to attack the backwards d pawn.
16...f5 is known book theory and has been played by Ding (more than once), Jakovenko, Kravtsiv, Zhao, etc. It is perfectly possible to know this if you study enough. I have had an OTB rated game (league) that was in prep for over 35 moves, albeit not in a Reverse Benoni Reti. 17. Ned2 is not the theory - correct there is Nc5 - so in anti-cheating it is best to start detection from there. The "mysterious" queen moves are the suspicious part here. The final calculation is really not very difficult for a classical game and should be well within a decent tournament player's capabilities.
@@zelandakhniteblade5436exactly. The final tactic is even easy to spot in a bullet Zeitnot ; it's completely forced with checks. f5 is definitely in the top 3 moves to consider. But the random queen moves? Yeah, that's just weird. However, a 1 game sample is never enough to accuse somebody of cheating. Suspicions probably had been raised for many games already, and this one just turned out to be his last.
The move f5 though makes sense since you'd win a pawn with tempo...It deters Nxd4 and Qa4+ since Qxb4 also threatens Nd2... not too suspicious if given time.
After Rd8, the obvious target is the d3 pawn but the way the game was played until that pawn falls is crazy. Have seen more crazy and confusing engine games, but when you add the human moves, it becomes weirder.
yes. buy 1 inch phone and attach it in a compartment inside soles of your shoes. then the other guy sends you vibrate morse codes. and keeps repeating it till you make a move because you had so much time
I’m 1300 elo in chess, and I saw Qxd3 when the fm blundered, it really isn’t that weird of a move, or at least for me it isn’t Also, I just want to say that there are some parts of the video in which you say that who would ever play those moves, and while I agree with some of the stuff you say, there are some parts that make sense, knowing opening theory is something that you should know at that level, and there were some moves that were theory, which you wouldn’t point out if the opponent wasn’t called out for cheating. It’s basically as if someone just plays the best moves for a while, and you’re like “wow”, that makes sense, but then you hear he’s cheating and you’re like “no human would ever find this move”. I’m not trying to say any disrespectful stuff or anything like that, I’m just sharing my point of view.
That's what I thought initially. But the queen can actually capture your knight, and when you take back with your queen, the white knight can jump to g5 with a check and discovered attack from the bishop to your queen. So it would just be a fancy trade
And he sacrificed… HIS ABILITY TO PLAY OTB TOURNAMENTS!!!
I prefer losing honestly than wining cheating.
@@marcjulian55 every normal person does
wining
Guess you're not Hans.
Win or lose you always win at chess. That is you learn from each game
There are those who lack that moral code.
He must of told the arbiters that something was afoot.
I see what you did there
ha
Definitely not putting his best foot forward
Yes, and then the arbiters socked it to him.
I have to put my foot down. These feet jokes toe-tally stink!
Phone inside a sock is so much cleaner than what was alleged against Niemann!
Newman is a cheater
Only dopes do not accept this reality
*Yes, it was nice of the cheater to keep it clean.*
Most likely because Niemann's surrogates were trying to leverage ad absurdum to argue that he must not have been cheating. Trying to distract from more plausible ways of cheating.
Depends how often you wash your feet.
@@wormius51 *Exactly! Someone taking off their shoes with an unclean foot can clear a whole room whereas someone dropping their pants will get a room full of laughter depending on the size being put on displayed.*
I put a phone in my sock once, it didn't help at all. How is this actually done?
Exactly
its fake. FM have lots of ego issues cause they did not become IM or GM. that 1700 rating might be from 1 or 2 years ago and he trained all this time
besides. FM are not that strong, they don't have that level that IMs have they are more close to 2000 rating on an average day
Can take a bathroom break if it is classical chess.
You gotta get a phone shaped like a plug
🧦 _His Sock Speaks For Itself_ 🧦
🧦
That's the one
Yes, the sock said, “no way you’re fitting a rice cooker in here."
So does his phone. It says “thank you sir for only putting me in your stinky sock and not somewhere else”
It is sockfish
12:15 for who's wondering, after Ne1 Rd2 is just winning a knight due to the pin (Kf1 Qe2+)
Why would anyone Wonder that?
I was.
@@dqreps because you might not see that, and that doesn't lose a knight right away and didn't get mensioned
@@pannenkoeksus oh okay I thought that was obvious. But I get what you're saying that lower rated minions may not.
@@dqreps yes, disconnection is not an easy tactic
Cheaters should be exposed and banned.
Absolutely. Public humiliation stops this.
He (Joeri Harreman) played 20 moves perfectly against Setyaki (2370) in the same tournament, then blunder Back-Rank Mate. 🤣
Ty for sharing the name for nelson, will make his games easier to find
@@ledark2512Nelson knows the name already
@@levistepanian5341 he does but since he didn't want to share it for understandable reason, it's nice that they gave it out here
And there you have it people, the first and biggest mistake at 1:40 of the video, not releasing the name of the cheater
You are absolutely correct. Keeping the identity of a confirmed cheater anonymous serves what purpose?
Keeps crazy people from doing anything extreme
Can confirm after several hours of teaching my foot how to use my smartphone I'm one step closer to realizing my chess cheating goals. Now to learn how to read my foots mind ...
Maybe if the phone was on the other foot .. or if the shoe was on the other phone? Footnote: you might try putting yourself in his shoes.
Teaching your foot how to use a phone is an amazing feat.
You go to the bathroom when you reach a critical position, enter a stall, close door, and pull the phone out of your sock. Now you're ready.
10:59 the blunder which is shown by stockfish also gets the queen trapped because of Rb8, Qa6, Bc8.
When Nelson asked what the was the mistake that was my first thought and was surprised it wasn't mentioned.
Thats what i saw and was thinking doesnt this way just force the queen to give itself up for the rook otherwise be trapped, thanks for ocnfirming
My thoughts as well. But I guess the played move forces the end game more effectively. A rare moment where we forgo a "free" queen.
Yes!! I calculated this too and was very disappointed when he didn't mention it. Unless there is a crazy defensive resource that I'm missing.
@@r33thi think the other option is better because of development at the opponent's king as opposed to just gaining 1 extra point of material when the opponent takes your rook with the queen instead of running away and getting chased further by the bishop.
"What would you do here?"
Run screaming from the room as if my hair were on fire.
That seems like a move I would go for.
I find the random queen movements way fishier than finding the winning move. The winning move was hardish to spot but far from impossible even for me and I’m lower rated. Wouldn’t find it in blitz but for classical time controls maybe. But moving the queen twice to move her one square without a direct idea of what to do…
I'm a 400 player and I've been notified about 20 times that my oppenent cheated.
So are you 400 because of cheaters?
@@walkingtree2486he didn't say such a thing.
If you’re 400 your opponent does not have to cheat to win
maybe you just don't understand their moves? There's no way your 400 rated opponents are cheating
@ErR8229.. thats really not true and you know it a 400 elo player can cheat just like anyone else. . It's actually probably easy for c.c to catch cheaters at low elos. And they probably do cheat and have no clue how obvious it us.
My sock resigns.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Cooking rice in a sock? Think we need a lot of soy sauce to cover up that taste.
That's the comment I was looking for
What??? LMAO!!!
Cheaters should be banned for life from any tournament
Why can't cheaters realize the thrill in climbing and getting better? Insecure people make me sick.
They find more thrill in cheating.
@@WanderingMonarch yeah. in any sort of game, if you cheat you are more likely to win and if you win then you still get the same hit of dopamine for it because the game rewards an individual the same whether cheating or not. In FPS games this is satisfying kill effects with visual and audio cues and in chess it's of course 'outwitting' your opponent and checkmating. Additionally it can be thrilling to know you're doing something you're shouldn't be and getting away with it.
@@contextinvideos For me the ONLY thrill in chess is outwitting your opponent. If someone is taking that out by cheating then why are they even playing this game.
@@anshumanpandey8547 Same for FPS games. I only get a thrill knowing I outplayed my opponent legitimately.
@@contextinvideos Wrong. Most normal people don't "get the same dopamine hit" when cheating... There would be zero feeling for me after cheating for a win in chess or an FPS... It is only losers that have no accomplishments in life or maybe emotionally stunted people who feel anything after winning by cheating in a game where nothing is on the line.
Honestly, I don't understand how is it possibly possible to use hidden in a sock phone to cheat on a tournament and not be noticed it must've be some sort of an ability.
I think I've seen stories where people went to the bathroom to use their phone in the stall
@@MichaelJonesUConn he would have to go to the bathroom multiple times for this
@@kkb8510No you wouldn’t. Just go when things get complicated and memorize a few moves. Not that hard to grasp. Also some people regularly have to use the restroom so it’s not uncommon.
@kkb8510 True. Perhaps there is also a way to make an app that connects to stockfish somehow. Use Morse code.
Say you want to play pawn a2 -> a4.
(From square) - (destination square)
.-..-.-....
Each period is a short vibrate. Each dash is a long vibrate.
The first dot references it's the first file, the second set of dots represents the rank, the third set of dots the destination file, the fourth set of dots is the destination rank.
If someone is keying in the game you can communicate each and every move this way
Maybe: phone in sock + Bluetooth earpiece with dictations from the engine? Best I got
Pushing the pawn to f5 and attacking the knight isn't that crazy of a move imo. It immediately creates a threat that white needs to deal with instead of pondering what the white queen is going to do.
@@treehugger3615 As is taking the pawn with the queen to attack the rook, a move that most amateurs would play without giving it a second thought.
It's not whether it's a hard move to calculate. It's whether a 1600 or 1700 player would even consider it.
@@georgeritmeester4736 I don't see why not. Even a 300 player might consider it as they just look for the first move that gives them biggest advantage. Taking the knight that is.
Exactly. I did consider that move even previous to the rook exchange. I also did when he told us to pause. It was the first move I looked at but then I saw the free pawn on b4 and shifted to considering the queen taking it.
As an 1849 rated player I wasn't thinking of it at all I wanted to castle, or defend the central pawn.
The combination starting Qxd3 was quite straightforward and I think a 1600 would likely find it in classical assuming they aren't in time trouble. f5 and the piece manouvering in the middlegame, on the other hand, were all quite suspicious and I highly doubt even a strong player would understand the concepts in a game, let alone be brave enough to play them.
It was intuitive for me and I don't think I'm quite at that level. But looking at it again... after Qxd3 Rxb4 Nxb4 Qxb4 Qd1+, can't White just block with the Knight instead (Ne1)?
@@la.zanmal.that’s what I thought too. The knight looks like it can’t be taken because a queen defends it, but Rd2 shuts that down and gets black the advantage on that one
@@TP3200 That is actually not that trivial to see, since it is not a forced continuation.
I agree with your take on Qxd3, as a 1600F I would have calculated it for sure.. Now as for f5, I would argue that a 1650F is either too weak for such a move, or just too strong :) A lesser player (say 1400 to 1450F, especially children) could think "I am gonna lose some material there on the wing", and would by reflex counter-attack on material of equivalent or higher value... not really thinking too long about the weakening of their king side... A 1600+ player never plays that I think, especially against a titled player, unless they see an immediate tactical gain.
When the FM was complaining to the judge, the OTB cheater told him to “put a sock in it”.
Achtung mein Schnout!
Chess "if you had a chance to look at that" Vibes
Why protect these players? Expose them
Probably to avoid being sued
If you expose them, according to law you have to reduce or eliminate their suspension, as being shamed is a punishment in itself.
We are topping the exam with this one
At 4:40 I actually thought of f5 but then I thought it would be better to capture the pawn at b4 first making the knight extremely vulnerable/passive
I was thinking f5 too, that Q manoeuvre e8/f8 I have no idea about, the final Qxe3 seems pretty straightforward tactics at my level (1800-2000).
Another bit of evidence is that the 1700 had played 10 book moves successively. For a 2200 it's part of the job, but for a 1700, even with an opening course, and especially in a not forcing opening like this, this is highly suspicious.
Interesting video , thanks Nelson ! I must be slow , but why didn't white block the Qd1+ with the knight ?
Right 🤔
Rd2 deflects the queen from the knight? kf1 qe2+?
@@redstonemastermc9821 thank you , yes Rd2 would be the reply !
Because the other dude had a phone
@@redstonemastermc9821 thanks!
Is it deflection, though? Maybe interference?
9:22 why would Qd7 or Qd6 be a weird move? Was literally the first move that came into my mind. Putting pressure on the backward pawn and moving the queen out of the file with the opposing rook. Seems really logical to me.
The only move i think is obviously an engine move is f5, because the logic behind that move just seems alot like an engine. You may consider it, because it attacks a piece, but who would actually play like that, thinking the king would be perfectly safe on f2
For all the other moves its not really hard to find reasoning. Qxd3 for example may seem like a comlicated tactical idea, but its classical time control and taking something should always be considered a candidate move.
I myself am 1750 fide and i think i could find all of these moves individually. Could i find them all in a single game? Probably not, but if it hadnt been for the phone in his sock id give him the benefit of the doubt.
I don't get the point of cheating. If you cannot win on your own merits, then you shouldn't be competing. If you're doing it for the prize money, then it's more than cheating, that's stealing. Don't cheat at chess. It's disrespectful to the community, to your opponent and especially yourself.
Of course to increase is rating and prize money thats why he's cheating
4:25 Qg5 blundering my queen two ways.
dont forget to say misclick in the chat because theres a 0.1% chance your opponent is nice
How did he get the info from his sock to his ear??
I don't understand, I must be missing something. @ 12:11 What's wrong with the backwards knight move, Ne8 for white? It blocks the check and it's covered by the queen. It also clears a spot for the white bishop to move to which in turn, makes room for the king.
lol i was thinking the same
I think f5 is reasonable. It came to my mind.
At about 5:00 I'll say it: For me f5 is very natural (Suggested it before you said it didn't cross your mind)
Same
What if you are using your phone to cheat and you get a call saying your opponent is cheating?
Too funny! My stomach hurts.
Thats a draw, both players cheated.
@11:20 ...Rb8 Qa6, Bc8 wins the queen?
As a guy who's over the board strength would likely be about 1650. I would have to agree about the Qe8 immediately followed by Qf8 with no obvious reason why. The f5 move was a little less suspicious to me though that could be due to my playstyle can be summarized by "when in doubt play h4/h5" which leads me to losing many games when I don't castle.
I'm probably like 1100 and f5 didn't seem that wild to me. It was like 4th or 5th move I looked at personally. Chases the knight and fights for the center. No need to rush to take that pawn. Not sure what the time control was but if I was in a serious tournament and I had the time I'd potentially look at 5-6 candidate moves here. Some may look at f5 and be afraid for their king safety, but an aggressive player may enjoy such a move.
12:12: Why isn't Knight e1 not possible to block the check?
Rd2
12:14 Why does Ne1 not work?
It is not a legal move
@@altrfryd5859 It is a legal move what you talking about?
It doesn't work because the rook can go to e2 and block the queen from defending the knight and then if kf1 trying to defend the knight the black queen go to f2 and force the King back and then you capture the knight anyway
6:11 lol. It's not a "stockfish" thing. The reason you move the king is because if you do something like block with the bishop, the queen comes down to a7 and wreaks havoc (at least that's what I think).
You should name and shame the cheater
But the cheater can sue him
Nope, naming and shaming would be a punishment. If you'd do that you'd have to reduce or entirely eliminate his suspension according to law. I would rather he doesn't play the coming years, than him playing on.
nobody cheated. the loser is baby. how can a phone in your sock help you win? it can't. don't be naive.
I dont know man looks like a pretty straight normal game
He should have kept the phone in his Hans…. 😁
Great one 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@CSRunner7 😂👌
But his sock hid the phone so well because they went up to his knee, man.
You do realize that at the time the allegations against Niemann were brought up, he was barely even legal? And here you are, insinuating about a 19 year old boy's anus. Disgusting.
Brilliant!
Nelson, so I can understand, at 7:33 you said kind to h7 is the move in your mind, then at 8:00 (2 turns later) you say it’s a weird move. I just want to know why. Is it because the rook was in the way and safer to run that way? Or did you forget the queen was aligned and youre looking at the next moves in a critical way so you missed what should actually be played. Thats the vibe i get and not trying to come at you, just wanna learn
One of the worst things about cheating is that it places average players always under suspicion when they do actually have great games. You Masters are so stinking arrogant that you automatically assume we're cheating if we can beat you. Hans Niemann and others have ruined the game for all of us; not just the top level players.
I've never been beaten by a 1600-player, not even when I was a beginner.
But magnus can beat fm with elo 1600 back from those days @@guidodenbroeder935
@@guidodenbroeder935 Did you fall out of the womb 1800? What does that even mean?
@@ComplainingIsRecreation I was undefeated for my first 36 games. By that time I had won the local championship, had moved to a club in the national league, and was playing 2000+-players.
isn't queen D6 on 9:20 losing a queen to discover check? how is that a top engine move? I'm confused.
12:10 Why not block with the knight?
Rook d2 blocking the opponent's queen, and it's unstoppable. If opponent king moves to f1 then queen e2 check to make it move back (and mate)
@@warmpianist There is Rd2
There's no honour in winning by cheating.
Dude, that must really sock
Pretty sad that people go to the extent of cheating. What’s the Motivation behind that? I don’t understand. Gotta say queen takes D3 was my instinct move though. It just looked appealing, (with no calculation).
How exactly will phone in your sock help you cheat? Like some vibration in morse code? I dont get it
I suspect that's exactly how.
@@Birdingtheorist Yes - would not be difficult for a coder. Very quiet buzz so only the person would be aware of it then some simple move code. For example indicate target square e.g at 5:04 send 6 then 5. This indicates a move to f5 - and there is only one choice. Sometimes it would be more ambiguous, but in most cases when told something has to go to a square and there is a choice one will stand out.
@@Birdingtheorist It must be a very complex cheat. I'm not sure how he inputs the moves into the engine. If the board is streamed on TV, he would need someone else helping him. But if it's only on the board, it must be way more complex, something like voice input or idk how.
Can't be voice you can't talk otb.
They usually just go to the toilet to check their phones and get the best moves or lines. It said he was caught going to the toilet with a phone in his sock. Usually with most of these cheating cases they just check the engine a couple of times during the game.
Enrollment rating is not significant for actual performance rating. I am rated ZERO in FIDE Blitz and FIDE Rapid. Any FM assuming a walk over - is in for a surprise!😂
In The Netherlands every competition and tournament is rated - and there are many, many tournaments and competitions. So yes, ratings have very high significance, except for very young kids.
@@tinnderbox3410 I entered an Open with FIDE OTB rating of ZERO. When I whooped titled players. Rating is a JOKE for insecure ppl to hide behind!😉
how did he see phone for next move from his socks?
i guess vibration or something
@@GODCOR how does vibration help?
Yeah, not exactly sure but obviously something. Like morse code or his own made up language.
@@insightphoto You know, vibrate once for a knight. twice for a bishop something like that. theres a video on youtube where someone attached a vibrating device to his leg in a controlled environment and he was able to beat a grandmaster to illustrate how easy it was to cheat OTB
@@ItIsYouAreNotYour yea... maybe the first set of vibrations tell the square letter say A B G D .... and the next set tell the square number 1 2 3 ... theres a video here on youtube. someone has done it
Why is Kh7 a strange move when just one move before you were saying it's what you would play (and the queen didn't move)?
Kinda funny, I actually did pick Qf8 at 10:30 in order to move Bc5 on a better square next.
Good old sockfish.
@ 12:32 what's wrong with blocking with the knight not the queen (my first thought)
Best chess video creator❤
*Why the heck would you hide the cheater name?? So, he can cheat on the rest of us?? That makes you as bad as the cheater! It means you condone his behavior since you don't want to expose him?? Knowing who the cheater is will mean that if I have to play him, I will be watching more carefully to make sure he doesn't cheat against me. It means I will put my guard up when playing this person. Otherwise, I'm relaxed when playing.* *Keep in mind the cheater brought this on himself, you don't own him any favor by keeping his name hidden.*
Little chance of playing him - he's suspended of course, and no tournament will ever allow him in.
@@tinnderbox3410 *There's a lot of smaller tournaments that are not as diligent in their security and don't know who on the chess black list.*
Did a little bit of detective work myself, pretty straight forward to figure it out with the information given in the article. What a silly sausage.
Edit: what's really crazy is this game is still counted on his record as a win.
That is crazy!!
@@FlapjackMcGee Depends on the rules. He probably was not caught cheating in this game, so if the rules are not retroactive, but simply expulsion after being caught, that's that. Also, while In round-robin tournament it is ok to just annul all the games as if he never existed, in a Swiss system it is probably difficult to void all previous results - that could penalize innocent people.
I once played a guy in a tournament who was wearing some kind of electronic hearing aid, I lost, and when I analyzed the game at home he played almost all engine moves...
I have put a lot of things into my socks when I was a teenager, but a phone is not one of them 😂
I only ever put three things into my socks as a teenager
Nelson, all ur stuff is excellent. To be clear, I suck at chess. Have a 10 min time control of 800. However I spend a ton of time with puzzles, just because I enjoy them, and hover around 2400 over past few months. This vid makes me realize that a "puzzle guy" simply looks at position as a "state" without any grip on history. I had that pawn push ad an option of equal weight with other ideas. I 'liked it' for totally different / wrong intent, which was clearing knights out of way preventing any assault on opponents kings. Just interesting how much 'mindset' matters in evaluating and picking moves.
How do they cheat even if they have phone in socks ?
Maybe they went to the bathroom and used their phone there to look up best moves
@@SteveK-ir9zwya but it will take time to set the position
@@SteveK-ir9zwhow mean how many bathroom breaks do you need before someone got suspicious?
If the game is live streamed or published in real time, it is also possible to have outside help. There are mini earbuds that can be concealed, there are glasses that conduct vibrations via bone, and of course anal beads. It is stunningly easy to cheat if there is a live stream an if the tournament does not have near paranoid security measures such as x-ray or metal detectors.
@@bjornlangoren3002 come to think of it, a man did cheat using one of those methods during poker. He also had help from someone who actually worked at the poker event
Me at just 800 rating, i don't know, they are all way better moves than i play. For me, the king move looks suspicious.
But i am wondering about Nelson's thinking at 7:30. He suggested Kh8 or Kh7 for black because the white Qb3 looks scary. What made him think that when Kh7 just the very next move was suspicious?
To be fair Nelson is about a 2248 and I've seen him lose fair and square to players of around this rating
12:10， how about if we do Ne1 to block the check?
That's exactly what I said. It seems so obvious but nobody's seems to realize it.
Why not disclose the name of the cheater? He deserves shamed publicly.
Probably afraid of being sued for defamation
After all that Niemann went through, it seems like the very least FIDE could do.
@@RupakShakurIf you were caught cheating, there is no way you can sue someone for saying you cheated.
You're sick.
9:25 - Qd6 was actually one of my top 2 candidate moves with the idea of having some control over the d file, while still not removing the protection of e5. It also comes with the idea of exchanging queens, I don't know why I thought this idea was good. Thus I considered Qc5 as well. The third was the stupid Ba5, which might actually make some sense, but in the end I would have very likely played Qd6.
From the game play, it seems possible that the accused cheater actually played well. The "suspicious" moves don't look that suspicious to me.
I agree
I saw the QD3 move but I didn't see why it was so good, and I was looking elsewhere. Maybe that's the difference, the cheat was in the selection.. like most of the moves I think were one of a range .. except the pawn F5 .. cmon. That was crazy..
21 book moves by both of them combined, is that normal 😂
accidentally just commented that it was normal, only normal for the fm
@@QuiteCringeI have that as a 1900 rapid player in the alapin Sicilian often
@@KingPanda-lp5ir nice! Don’t see more than like 3 each at the 800 level haha
@@KingPanda-lp5ir yes, but 1900 does not translate to 1600 otb, more 1700 - 1800
I see where you're coming from though, these are pretty normal opening moves
13:08 that's not giving 'giving up your queen' that's just checkmate with queen to b1 after the queen gets pinned by the bishop.
Obvious question is how did this person look at their phone if it was in their sock?
vibration
Probably he just went to the toilet when there was a difficult moment, analysed as many lines as possible and came back. That explains why some moves weren't the best moves, too.
@@Mmmeeee4 so how does a vibrating phone help him?
@@insightphoto morse code, but the vibrating phone is speculation.
Either he snuck off to the restroom, or he knows Morse code and can understand KxE5 based off the number of buzzes.
It's interesting how people find moves "suspicious." I didn't think anything was strange until king H7 at 9:48, I didn't think about that in that moment but earlier you did mention moving the king to H7 or H8 to prevent being put in check by the queen. I don't think it's strange typically if someone decided to play defensively later, not immediately. I know he did cheat in this case, but it's very interesting how someone can perceive the moves to be engine moves.
Queen E8 then F8 was very weird... just to clarify, I am not hating on anyone. When I say it's interesting I really find it interesting.
imo if you cheat or do criminal stuff, you lost your right to remain private.
Cheating in a board game is not a criminal offense. Keep some perspective, please. Suspend him for a long time, I agree, but you don't have to ruin his life over a dumb mistake.
That's a disgusting attitude.
@@kylezo i know. when youre a little coward who needs to cheat you want to create a fake impression. because impressions matter, what other people think really matters. and instead of thinking youre a great player, they think youre just silly. thats unacceptable for little coward. disgusting !
the truth is often disgusting. but its still the truth. and those who want to censor the truth are truly disgusting. your silly outrage is disgusting !
Amazing video! More of these please!
The sock spoke for itself.
For me the most suspicious part was the accuracy. The moves themselves looked pretty random (the fact that they were best moves is suspicious). I don't really know how to discern whether a move on its own is suspicious or not.
There's already a person who is both First and Second😂😂
Question. At 12:30 why not Kne1?
As a Dutch person, I can confirm this, but we have good tournaments and referees, come check the chess festival in Groningen and the ONK in Dieren
Terrible Olympics committee though. Let child rapists represent the country, but ban top golfers who qualify fairly and don't rape children from competing. Sorry, but every Dutch person needs to be shamed over this in the comments because that mindset in sports is not ok.
Wasn't too difficult to find who it was :-)
12:00 and if he blocks with the knight on e1? queen still defends both knights
Harreman, Joeri is their name, for anyone wondering since Nelson wont reveal it. The match in the video is from the 5th round vs FM Van Baar, Esper. These cheaters dont deserve any mercy and the public should know who they are
10:40 Bb4 actually makes sense and I personally would have played it as it wins a tempo on the white rook alongside opening up the black rook on the d file to attack the backwards d pawn.
Why not name the guy? Why protect someone intent on damaging the game?
Exactly.
Probably to avoid being sued
The stress of checking my socks every body would see and I would loose for sure.
F5 was a dead giveaway.
16...f5 is known book theory and has been played by Ding (more than once), Jakovenko, Kravtsiv, Zhao, etc. It is perfectly possible to know this if you study enough. I have had an OTB rated game (league) that was in prep for over 35 moves, albeit not in a Reverse Benoni Reti. 17. Ned2 is not the theory - correct there is Nc5 - so in anti-cheating it is best to start detection from there. The "mysterious" queen moves are the suspicious part here. The final calculation is really not very difficult for a classical game and should be well within a decent tournament player's capabilities.
It is not. As a 1846 rated player (OTB) I can say that it feels very natural to play or at least consider f5
@@zelandakhniteblade5436exactly. The final tactic is even easy to spot in a bullet Zeitnot ; it's completely forced with checks. f5 is definitely in the top 3 moves to consider. But the random queen moves? Yeah, that's just weird.
However, a 1 game sample is never enough to accuse somebody of cheating. Suspicions probably had been raised for many games already, and this one just turned out to be his last.
If you know who the cheater is EXPOSE HIM so that others are aware of him & other cheaters will know they will be put on blast on the internet.
Hans Niemann has left the chat.
Haha yup
The move f5 though makes sense since you'd win a pawn with tempo...It deters Nxd4 and Qa4+ since Qxb4 also threatens Nd2... not too suspicious if given time.
No one is gonna say that there were so many book moves
Thought the same thing
Unrealistic prep by a 1600
You guys make It seem like 1600’s are complete trash. It’s a reason why this guy has a course on the *road to 1500.*
@@MISCHEIVIOUSLOKICHESSI mean if the 1600 knew his opponents would be playing the KIA it’s not so unrealistic
You can play up to 20-25 prep moves in some openings.
After Rd8, the obvious target is the d3 pawn but the way the game was played until that pawn falls is crazy. Have seen more crazy and confusing engine games, but when you add the human moves, it becomes weirder.
I would like to post this on reddit, if I wasn't banned from r/ chess for cheating posts)
Actually nevermind, I created a subbredit specifically for this
yes. buy 1 inch phone and attach it in a compartment inside soles of your shoes. then the other guy sends you vibrate morse codes. and keeps repeating it till you make a move because you had so much time
Show his name. Don't give cheaters the luxury of anonymity because they don't deserve it.
I’m 1300 elo in chess, and I saw Qxd3 when the fm blundered, it really isn’t that weird of a move, or at least for me it isn’t
Also, I just want to say that there are some parts of the video in which you say that who would ever play those moves, and while I agree with some of the stuff you say, there are some parts that make sense, knowing opening theory is something that you should know at that level, and there were some moves that were theory, which you wouldn’t point out if the opponent wasn’t called out for cheating. It’s basically as if someone just plays the best moves for a while, and you’re like “wow”, that makes sense, but then you hear he’s cheating and you’re like “no human would ever find this move”. I’m not trying to say any disrespectful stuff or anything like that, I’m just sharing my point of view.
''Damn, I got beat today because I was wearing ankle socks.''
11:20, Can't we just trap the queen with rook b8 followed by bishop c8?
That's what I thought initially. But the queen can actually capture your knight, and when you take back with your queen, the white knight can jump to g5 with a check and discovered attack from the bishop to your queen. So it would just be a fancy trade
Wow ... I see it. Thank you. Good catch... completely missed it.
11:56 he could block the check with the knight on f3 and will be protected by the white queen. You did not cover this line