Most likely because Niemann's surrogates were trying to leverage ad absurdum to argue that he must not have been cheating. Trying to distract from more plausible ways of cheating.
Can confirm after several hours of teaching my foot how to use my smartphone I'm one step closer to realizing my chess cheating goals. Now to learn how to read my foots mind ...
@@r33thi think the other option is better because of development at the opponent's king as opposed to just gaining 1 extra point of material when the opponent takes your rook with the queen instead of running away and getting chased further by the bishop.
Pushing the pawn to f5 and attacking the knight isn't that crazy of a move imo. It immediately creates a threat that white needs to deal with instead of pondering what the white queen is going to do.
@@georgeritmeester4736 I don't see why not. Even a 300 player might consider it as they just look for the first move that gives them biggest advantage. Taking the knight that is.
Exactly. I did consider that move even previous to the rook exchange. I also did when he told us to pause. It was the first move I looked at but then I saw the free pawn on b4 and shifted to considering the queen taking it.
@ErR8229.. thats really not true and you know it a 400 elo player can cheat just like anyone else. . It's actually probably easy for c.c to catch cheaters at low elos. And they probably do cheat and have no clue how obvious it us.
As a guy who's over the board strength would likely be about 1650. I would have to agree about the Qe8 immediately followed by Qf8 with no obvious reason why. The f5 move was a little less suspicious to me though that could be due to my playstyle can be summarized by "when in doubt play h4/h5" which leads me to losing many games when I don't castle.
I'm probably like 1100 and f5 didn't seem that wild to me. It was like 4th or 5th move I looked at personally. Chases the knight and fights for the center. No need to rush to take that pawn. Not sure what the time control was but if I was in a serious tournament and I had the time I'd potentially look at 5-6 candidate moves here. Some may look at f5 and be afraid for their king safety, but an aggressive player may enjoy such a move.
Honestly, I don't understand how is it possibly possible to use hidden in a sock phone to cheat on a tournament and not be noticed it must've be some sort of an ability.
@@kkb8510No you wouldn’t. Just go when things get complicated and memorize a few moves. Not that hard to grasp. Also some people regularly have to use the restroom so it’s not uncommon.
@kkb8510 True. Perhaps there is also a way to make an app that connects to stockfish somehow. Use Morse code. Say you want to play pawn a2 -> a4. (From square) - (destination square) .-..-.-.... Each period is a short vibrate. Each dash is a long vibrate. The first dot references it's the first file, the second set of dots represents the rank, the third set of dots the destination file, the fourth set of dots is the destination rank. If someone is keying in the game you can communicate each and every move this way
You do realize that at the time the allegations against Niemann were brought up, he was barely even legal? And here you are, insinuating about a 19 year old boy's anus. Disgusting.
@@WanderingMonarch yeah. in any sort of game, if you cheat you are more likely to win and if you win then you still get the same hit of dopamine for it because the game rewards an individual the same whether cheating or not. In FPS games this is satisfying kill effects with visual and audio cues and in chess it's of course 'outwitting' your opponent and checkmating. Additionally it can be thrilling to know you're doing something you're shouldn't be and getting away with it.
@@contextinvideos For me the ONLY thrill in chess is outwitting your opponent. If someone is taking that out by cheating then why are they even playing this game.
@@contextinvideos Wrong. Most normal people don't "get the same dopamine hit" when cheating... There would be zero feeling for me after cheating for a win in chess or an FPS... It is only losers that have no accomplishments in life or maybe emotionally stunted people who feel anything after winning by cheating in a game where nothing is on the line.
I find the random queen movements way fishier than finding the winning move. The winning move was hardish to spot but far from impossible even for me and I’m lower rated. Wouldn’t find it in blitz but for classical time controls maybe. But moving the queen twice to move her one square without a direct idea of what to do…
The combination starting Qxd3 was quite straightforward and I think a 1600 would likely find it in classical assuming they aren't in time trouble. f5 and the piece manouvering in the middlegame, on the other hand, were all quite suspicious and I highly doubt even a strong player would understand the concepts in a game, let alone be brave enough to play them.
It was intuitive for me and I don't think I'm quite at that level. But looking at it again... after Qxd3 Rxb4 Nxb4 Qxb4 Qd1+, can't White just block with the Knight instead (Ne1)?
@@la.zanmal.that’s what I thought too. The knight looks like it can’t be taken because a queen defends it, but Rd2 shuts that down and gets black the advantage on that one
I agree with your take on Qxd3, as a 1600F I would have calculated it for sure.. Now as for f5, I would argue that a 1650F is either too weak for such a move, or just too strong :) A lesser player (say 1400 to 1450F, especially children) could think "I am gonna lose some material there on the wing", and would by reflex counter-attack on material of equivalent or higher value... not really thinking too long about the weakening of their king side... A 1600+ player never plays that I think, especially against a titled player, unless they see an immediate tactical gain.
I don't get the point of cheating. If you cannot win on your own merits, then you shouldn't be competing. If you're doing it for the prize money, then it's more than cheating, that's stealing. Don't cheat at chess. It's disrespectful to the community, to your opponent and especially yourself.
I always keep my phone in my socks. But, how is this done? Does he bend down under the table to check his phone? Does he go to the toilet each time his turn to move? If he is cheating with the phone-in-socks trick, he should be awarded for his ingenuity. Looks like a sore loser to me, the higher rated losing to a lower rated, universal reaction.
I saw the QD3 move but I didn't see why it was so good, and I was looking elsewhere. Maybe that's the difference, the cheat was in the selection.. like most of the moves I think were one of a range .. except the pawn F5 .. cmon. That was crazy..
One of the worst things about cheating is that it places average players always under suspicion when they do actually have great games. You Masters are so stinking arrogant that you automatically assume we're cheating if we can beat you. Hans Niemann and others have ruined the game for all of us; not just the top level players.
Another bit of evidence is that the 1700 had played 10 book moves successively. For a 2200 it's part of the job, but for a 1700, even with an opening course, and especially in a not forcing opening like this, this is highly suspicious.
How do you cheat with a phone in your sock? Please show an example coz I don't see how you do it. Aren't there like other people around? It's easy to accuse but I don't see a way it's possible.
@@insightphoto You know, vibrate once for a knight. twice for a bishop something like that. theres a video on youtube where someone attached a vibrating device to his leg in a controlled environment and he was able to beat a grandmaster to illustrate how easy it was to cheat OTB
@@ItIsYouAreNotYour yea... maybe the first set of vibrations tell the square letter say A B G D .... and the next set tell the square number 1 2 3 ... theres a video here on youtube. someone has done it
I’m 1300 elo in chess, and I saw Qxd3 when the fm blundered, it really isn’t that weird of a move, or at least for me it isn’t Also, I just want to say that there are some parts of the video in which you say that who would ever play those moves, and while I agree with some of the stuff you say, there are some parts that make sense, knowing opening theory is something that you should know at that level, and there were some moves that were theory, which you wouldn’t point out if the opponent wasn’t called out for cheating. It’s basically as if someone just plays the best moves for a while, and you’re like “wow”, that makes sense, but then you hear he’s cheating and you’re like “no human would ever find this move”. I’m not trying to say any disrespectful stuff or anything like that, I’m just sharing my point of view.
Nope, naming and shaming would be a punishment. If you'd do that you'd have to reduce or entirely eliminate his suspension according to law. I would rather he doesn't play the coming years, than him playing on.
@@Birdingtheorist Yes - would not be difficult for a coder. Very quiet buzz so only the person would be aware of it then some simple move code. For example indicate target square e.g at 5:04 send 6 then 5. This indicates a move to f5 - and there is only one choice. Sometimes it would be more ambiguous, but in most cases when told something has to go to a square and there is a choice one will stand out.
@@Birdingtheorist It must be a very complex cheat. I'm not sure how he inputs the moves into the engine. If the board is streamed on TV, he would need someone else helping him. But if it's only on the board, it must be way more complex, something like voice input or idk how.
They usually just go to the toilet to check their phones and get the best moves or lines. It said he was caught going to the toilet with a phone in his sock. Usually with most of these cheating cases they just check the engine a couple of times during the game.
Did a little bit of detective work myself, pretty straight forward to figure it out with the information given in the article. What a silly sausage. Edit: what's really crazy is this game is still counted on his record as a win.
@@FlapjackMcGee Depends on the rules. He probably was not caught cheating in this game, so if the rules are not retroactive, but simply expulsion after being caught, that's that. Also, while In round-robin tournament it is ok to just annul all the games as if he never existed, in a Swiss system it is probably difficult to void all previous results - that could penalize innocent people.
Cheating in a board game is not a criminal offense. Keep some perspective, please. Suspend him for a long time, I agree, but you don't have to ruin his life over a dumb mistake.
@@kylezo i know. when youre a little coward who needs to cheat you want to create a fake impression. because impressions matter, what other people think really matters. and instead of thinking youre a great player, they think youre just silly. thats unacceptable for little coward. disgusting ! the truth is often disgusting. but its still the truth. and those who want to censor the truth are truly disgusting. your silly outrage is disgusting !
At this point black player can actually go for rook b8 white queen can go to only a7 only to be attacked by white color bishop by placing it on ç8 and white Queen is gone
16...f5 is known book theory and has been played by Ding (more than once), Jakovenko, Kravtsiv, Zhao, etc. It is perfectly possible to know this if you study enough. I have had an OTB rated game (league) that was in prep for over 35 moves, albeit not in a Reverse Benoni Reti. 17. Ned2 is not the theory - correct there is Nc5 - so in anti-cheating it is best to start detection from there. The "mysterious" queen moves are the suspicious part here. The final calculation is really not very difficult for a classical game and should be well within a decent tournament player's capabilities.
Probably he just went to the toilet when there was a difficult moment, analysed as many lines as possible and came back. That explains why some moves weren't the best moves, too.
I still don't understand: how he did the cheat if his phone was in his sock. Did he take out the phone under the table and type his enemy's move to see what the chess app replied? If he didn't see his phone, how could he know what the move he should made?
If the game is live streamed or published in real time, it is also possible to have outside help. There are mini earbuds that can be concealed, there are glasses that conduct vibrations via bone, and of course anal beads. It is stunningly easy to cheat if there is a live stream an if the tournament does not have near paranoid security measures such as x-ray or metal detectors.
@@bjornlangoren3002 come to think of it, a man did cheat using one of those methods during poker. He also had help from someone who actually worked at the poker event
9:22 why would Qd7 or Qd6 be a weird move? Was literally the first move that came into my mind. Putting pressure on the backward pawn and moving the queen out of the file with the opposing rook. Seems really logical to me. The only move i think is obviously an engine move is f5, because the logic behind that move just seems alot like an engine. You may consider it, because it attacks a piece, but who would actually play like that, thinking the king would be perfectly safe on f2 For all the other moves its not really hard to find reasoning. Qxd3 for example may seem like a comlicated tactical idea, but its classical time control and taking something should always be considered a candidate move. I myself am 1750 fide and i think i could find all of these moves individually. Could i find them all in a single game? Probably not, but if it hadnt been for the phone in his sock id give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pardon me, but on the first critical move, why not castle king's side? That would put black's power between the king, and white's queen. It would make a back-row attack more difficult? But- I must be wrong. What am I missing?
When I last played competitive OTB chess my rating was 1500-something. That was long ago and chess engines were just becoming stronger than the best humans. There's no way I would have spotted those moves in my best form. Those were super GM level tactics.
Harreman, Joeri is their name, for anyone wondering since Nelson wont reveal it. The match in the video is from the 5th round vs FM Van Baar, Esper. These cheaters dont deserve any mercy and the public should know who they are
I'd be interested to know how he actually accomplished the cheating. Just a phone in the sock alone doesn't reveal how he was able to input the moves and read out the suggested moves at critical positions.
I once played a guy in a tournament who was wearing some kind of electronic hearing aid, I lost, and when I analyzed the game at home he played almost all engine moves...
Terrible Olympics committee though. Let child rapists represent the country, but ban top golfers who qualify fairly and don't rape children from competing. Sorry, but every Dutch person needs to be shamed over this in the comments because that mindset in sports is not ok.
Terrible video - he condones cheating in chess yet doesn't explain how the cheater could possibly do so with a phone in his sock otb nor does he disclose the cheaters name (you have to expose these losers).
*Why the heck would you hide the cheater name?? So, he can cheat on the rest of us?? That makes you as bad as the cheater! It means you condone his behavior since you don't want to expose him?? Knowing who the cheater is will mean that if I have to play him, I will be watching more carefully to make sure he doesn't cheat against me. It means I will put my guard up when playing this person. Otherwise, I'm relaxed when playing.* *Keep in mind the cheater brought this on himself, you don't own him any favor by keeping his name hidden.*
Nelson, all ur stuff is excellent. To be clear, I suck at chess. Have a 10 min time control of 800. However I spend a ton of time with puzzles, just because I enjoy them, and hover around 2400 over past few months. This vid makes me realize that a "puzzle guy" simply looks at position as a "state" without any grip on history. I had that pawn push ad an option of equal weight with other ideas. I 'liked it' for totally different / wrong intent, which was clearing knights out of way preventing any assault on opponents kings. Just interesting how much 'mindset' matters in evaluating and picking moves.
That f5 is maybe weird from a 2200+ player view but it takes space, attacks a knight forcing it to retreat and you can take that pawn on the next move unless white sacrifices his knight to save that pawn so as a 1200 player who likes to push his pawns forward instead of developing I find that f5 move completely legit. It would be my top 1 move on classic for sure. In a rapid game I would take the pawn immediately.
I still don't see how he was using his phone to cheat if it was in his sock. I mean was he pulling it out all conspicuously? How would he use it without it being very noticeable?
I prefer losing honestly than wining cheating.
@@marcjulian55 every normal person does
wining
Guess you're not Hans.
Win or lose you always win at chess. That is you learn from each game
There are those who lack that moral code.
So he didn't use Stockfish for cheating.....he used Sockfish (pun intended)
oof
:D 🤩🤩
🏆Best comment🏆
@@JamesQMurphy Thanks
That joke has a kind of bad smell....
He must of told the arbiters that something was afoot.
I see what you did there
ha
Definitely not putting his best foot forward
Yes, and then the arbiters socked it to him.
I have to put my foot down. These feet jokes toe-tally stink!
And he sacrificed… HIS ABILITY TO PLAY OTB TOURNAMENTS!!!
I put a phone in my sock once, it didn't help at all. How is this actually done?
Exactly
its fake. FM have lots of ego issues cause they did not become IM or GM. that 1700 rating might be from 1 or 2 years ago and he trained all this time
besides. FM are not that strong, they don't have that level that IMs have they are more close to 2000 rating on an average day
Can take a bathroom break if it is classical chess.
You gotta get a phone shaped like a plug
🧦 _His Sock Speaks For Itself_ 🧦
🧦
That's the one
Yes, the sock said, “no way you’re fitting a rice cooker in here."
So does his phone. It says “thank you sir for only putting me in your stinky sock and not somewhere else”
It is sockfish
Phone inside a sock is so much cleaner than what was alleged against Niemann!
Newman is a cheater
Only dopes do not accept this reality
*Yes, it was nice of the cheater to keep it clean.*
Most likely because Niemann's surrogates were trying to leverage ad absurdum to argue that he must not have been cheating. Trying to distract from more plausible ways of cheating.
12:15 for who's wondering, after Ne1 Rd2 is just winning a knight due to the pin (Kf1 Qe2+)
Why would anyone Wonder that?
I was.
@@dqreps because you might not see that, and that doesn't lose a knight right away and didn't get mensioned
@@pannenkoeksus oh okay I thought that was obvious. But I get what you're saying that lower rated minions may not.
@@dqreps yes, disconnection is not an easy tactic
Cheaters should be exposed and banned.
He (Joeri Harreman) played 20 moves perfectly against Setyaki (2370) in the same tournament, then blunder Back-Rank Mate. 🤣
Ty for sharing the name for nelson, will make his games easier to find
@@leihauNelson knows the name already
@@levistepanian5341 he does but since he didn't want to share it for understandable reason, it's nice that they gave it out here
Can confirm after several hours of teaching my foot how to use my smartphone I'm one step closer to realizing my chess cheating goals. Now to learn how to read my foots mind ...
Maybe if the phone was on the other foot .. or if the shoe was on the other phone? Footnote: you might try putting yourself in his shoes.
Teaching your foot how to use a phone is an amazing feat.
You go to the bathroom when you reach a critical position, enter a stall, close door, and pull the phone out of your sock. Now you're ready.
10:59 the blunder which is shown by stockfish also gets the queen trapped because of Rb8, Qa6, Bc8.
When Nelson asked what the was the mistake that was my first thought and was surprised it wasn't mentioned.
Thats what i saw and was thinking doesnt this way just force the queen to give itself up for the rook otherwise be trapped, thanks for ocnfirming
My thoughts as well. But I guess the played move forces the end game more effectively. A rare moment where we forgo a "free" queen.
Yes!! I calculated this too and was very disappointed when he didn't mention it. Unless there is a crazy defensive resource that I'm missing.
@@r33thi think the other option is better because of development at the opponent's king as opposed to just gaining 1 extra point of material when the opponent takes your rook with the queen instead of running away and getting chased further by the bishop.
Pushing the pawn to f5 and attacking the knight isn't that crazy of a move imo. It immediately creates a threat that white needs to deal with instead of pondering what the white queen is going to do.
@@treehugger3615 As is taking the pawn with the queen to attack the rook, a move that most amateurs would play without giving it a second thought.
It's not whether it's a hard move to calculate. It's whether a 1600 or 1700 player would even consider it.
@@georgeritmeester4736 I don't see why not. Even a 300 player might consider it as they just look for the first move that gives them biggest advantage. Taking the knight that is.
Exactly. I did consider that move even previous to the rook exchange. I also did when he told us to pause. It was the first move I looked at but then I saw the free pawn on b4 and shifted to considering the queen taking it.
As an 1849 rated player I wasn't thinking of it at all I wanted to castle, or defend the central pawn.
Cooking rice in a sock? Think we need a lot of soy sauce to cover up that taste.
That's the comment I was looking for
What??? LMAO!!!
I'm a 400 player and I've been notified about 20 times that my oppenent cheated.
So are you 400 because of cheaters?
@@walkingtree2486he didn't say such a thing.
If you’re 400 your opponent does not have to cheat to win
maybe you just don't understand their moves? There's no way your 400 rated opponents are cheating
@ErR8229.. thats really not true and you know it a 400 elo player can cheat just like anyone else. . It's actually probably easy for c.c to catch cheaters at low elos. And they probably do cheat and have no clue how obvious it us.
"What would you do here?"
Run screaming from the room as if my hair were on fire.
That seems like a move I would go for.
As a guy who's over the board strength would likely be about 1650. I would have to agree about the Qe8 immediately followed by Qf8 with no obvious reason why. The f5 move was a little less suspicious to me though that could be due to my playstyle can be summarized by "when in doubt play h4/h5" which leads me to losing many games when I don't castle.
I'm probably like 1100 and f5 didn't seem that wild to me. It was like 4th or 5th move I looked at personally. Chases the knight and fights for the center. No need to rush to take that pawn. Not sure what the time control was but if I was in a serious tournament and I had the time I'd potentially look at 5-6 candidate moves here. Some may look at f5 and be afraid for their king safety, but an aggressive player may enjoy such a move.
And there you have it people, the first and biggest mistake at 1:40 of the video, not releasing the name of the cheater
Honestly, I don't understand how is it possibly possible to use hidden in a sock phone to cheat on a tournament and not be noticed it must've be some sort of an ability.
I think I've seen stories where people went to the bathroom to use their phone in the stall
@@MichaelJonesUConn he would have to go to the bathroom multiple times for this
@@kkb8510No you wouldn’t. Just go when things get complicated and memorize a few moves. Not that hard to grasp. Also some people regularly have to use the restroom so it’s not uncommon.
@kkb8510 True. Perhaps there is also a way to make an app that connects to stockfish somehow. Use Morse code.
Say you want to play pawn a2 -> a4.
(From square) - (destination square)
.-..-.-....
Each period is a short vibrate. Each dash is a long vibrate.
The first dot references it's the first file, the second set of dots represents the rank, the third set of dots the destination file, the fourth set of dots is the destination rank.
If someone is keying in the game you can communicate each and every move this way
Maybe: phone in sock + Bluetooth earpiece with dictations from the engine? Best I got
My sock resigns.
He should have kept the phone in his Hans…. 😁
Great one 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@CSRunner7 😂👌
But his sock hid the phone so well because they went up to his knee, man.
You do realize that at the time the allegations against Niemann were brought up, he was barely even legal? And here you are, insinuating about a 19 year old boy's anus. Disgusting.
Brilliant!
Why can't cheaters realize the thrill in climbing and getting better? Insecure people make me sick.
They find more thrill in cheating.
@@WanderingMonarch yeah. in any sort of game, if you cheat you are more likely to win and if you win then you still get the same hit of dopamine for it because the game rewards an individual the same whether cheating or not. In FPS games this is satisfying kill effects with visual and audio cues and in chess it's of course 'outwitting' your opponent and checkmating. Additionally it can be thrilling to know you're doing something you're shouldn't be and getting away with it.
@@contextinvideos For me the ONLY thrill in chess is outwitting your opponent. If someone is taking that out by cheating then why are they even playing this game.
@@anshumanpandey8547 Same for FPS games. I only get a thrill knowing I outplayed my opponent legitimately.
@@contextinvideos Wrong. Most normal people don't "get the same dopamine hit" when cheating... There would be zero feeling for me after cheating for a win in chess or an FPS... It is only losers that have no accomplishments in life or maybe emotionally stunted people who feel anything after winning by cheating in a game where nothing is on the line.
4:25 Qg5 blundering my queen two ways.
dont forget to say misclick in the chat because theres a 0.1% chance your opponent is nice
When the FM was complaining to the judge, the OTB cheater told him to “put a sock in it”.
Chess "if you had a chance to look at that" Vibes
I find the random queen movements way fishier than finding the winning move. The winning move was hardish to spot but far from impossible even for me and I’m lower rated. Wouldn’t find it in blitz but for classical time controls maybe. But moving the queen twice to move her one square without a direct idea of what to do…
The combination starting Qxd3 was quite straightforward and I think a 1600 would likely find it in classical assuming they aren't in time trouble. f5 and the piece manouvering in the middlegame, on the other hand, were all quite suspicious and I highly doubt even a strong player would understand the concepts in a game, let alone be brave enough to play them.
It was intuitive for me and I don't think I'm quite at that level. But looking at it again... after Qxd3 Rxb4 Nxb4 Qxb4 Qd1+, can't White just block with the Knight instead (Ne1)?
@@la.zanmal.that’s what I thought too. The knight looks like it can’t be taken because a queen defends it, but Rd2 shuts that down and gets black the advantage on that one
@@TP3200 That is actually not that trivial to see, since it is not a forced continuation.
I agree with your take on Qxd3, as a 1600F I would have calculated it for sure.. Now as for f5, I would argue that a 1650F is either too weak for such a move, or just too strong :) A lesser player (say 1400 to 1450F, especially children) could think "I am gonna lose some material there on the wing", and would by reflex counter-attack on material of equivalent or higher value... not really thinking too long about the weakening of their king side... A 1600+ player never plays that I think, especially against a titled player, unless they see an immediate tactical gain.
What if you are using your phone to cheat and you get a call saying your opponent is cheating?
Too funny! My stomach hurts.
Thats a draw, both players cheated.
Interesting video , thanks Nelson ! I must be slow , but why didn't white block the Qd1+ with the knight ?
Right 🤔
Rd2 deflects the queen from the knight? kf1 qe2+?
@@redstonemastermc9821 thank you , yes Rd2 would be the reply !
Because the other dude had a phone
@@redstonemastermc9821 thanks!
Is it deflection, though? Maybe interference?
Why protect these players? Expose them
Probably to avoid being sued
If you expose them, according to law you have to reduce or eliminate their suspension, as being shamed is a punishment in itself.
I don't get the point of cheating. If you cannot win on your own merits, then you shouldn't be competing. If you're doing it for the prize money, then it's more than cheating, that's stealing. Don't cheat at chess. It's disrespectful to the community, to your opponent and especially yourself.
Of course to increase is rating and prize money thats why he's cheating
I always keep my phone in my socks. But, how is this done? Does he bend down under the table to check his phone? Does he go to the toilet each time his turn to move? If he is cheating with the phone-in-socks trick, he should be awarded for his ingenuity.
Looks like a sore loser to me, the higher rated losing to a lower rated, universal reaction.
From the game play, it seems possible that the accused cheater actually played well. The "suspicious" moves don't look that suspicious to me.
I agree
I saw the QD3 move but I didn't see why it was so good, and I was looking elsewhere. Maybe that's the difference, the cheat was in the selection.. like most of the moves I think were one of a range .. except the pawn F5 .. cmon. That was crazy..
Dude, that must really sock
One of the worst things about cheating is that it places average players always under suspicion when they do actually have great games. You Masters are so stinking arrogant that you automatically assume we're cheating if we can beat you. Hans Niemann and others have ruined the game for all of us; not just the top level players.
I've never been beaten by a 1600-player, not even when I was a beginner.
But magnus can beat fm with elo 1600 back from those days @@guidodenbroeder935
I think f5 is reasonable. It came to my mind.
Good old sockfish.
Another bit of evidence is that the 1700 had played 10 book moves successively. For a 2200 it's part of the job, but for a 1700, even with an opening course, and especially in a not forcing opening like this, this is highly suspicious.
Why not disclose the name of the cheater? He deserves shamed publicly.
Probably afraid of being sued for defamation
After all that Niemann went through, it seems like the very least FIDE could do.
@@RupakShakurIf you were caught cheating, there is no way you can sue someone for saying you cheated.
You're sick.
How do you cheat with a phone in your sock? Please show an example coz I don't see how you do it. Aren't there like other people around? It's easy to accuse but I don't see a way it's possible.
how did he see phone for next move from his socks?
i guess vibration or something
@@GODCOR how does vibration help?
Yeah, not exactly sure but obviously something. Like morse code or his own made up language.
@@insightphoto You know, vibrate once for a knight. twice for a bishop something like that. theres a video on youtube where someone attached a vibrating device to his leg in a controlled environment and he was able to beat a grandmaster to illustrate how easy it was to cheat OTB
@@ItIsYouAreNotYour yea... maybe the first set of vibrations tell the square letter say A B G D .... and the next set tell the square number 1 2 3 ... theres a video here on youtube. someone has done it
I’m 1300 elo in chess, and I saw Qxd3 when the fm blundered, it really isn’t that weird of a move, or at least for me it isn’t
Also, I just want to say that there are some parts of the video in which you say that who would ever play those moves, and while I agree with some of the stuff you say, there are some parts that make sense, knowing opening theory is something that you should know at that level, and there were some moves that were theory, which you wouldn’t point out if the opponent wasn’t called out for cheating. It’s basically as if someone just plays the best moves for a while, and you’re like “wow”, that makes sense, but then you hear he’s cheating and you’re like “no human would ever find this move”. I’m not trying to say any disrespectful stuff or anything like that, I’m just sharing my point of view.
You should name and shame the cheater
But the cheater can sue him
Nope, naming and shaming would be a punishment. If you'd do that you'd have to reduce or entirely eliminate his suspension according to law. I would rather he doesn't play the coming years, than him playing on.
How did he get the info from his sock to his ear??
How exactly will phone in your sock help you cheat? Like some vibration in morse code? I dont get it
I suspect that's exactly how.
@@Birdingtheorist Yes - would not be difficult for a coder. Very quiet buzz so only the person would be aware of it then some simple move code. For example indicate target square e.g at 5:04 send 6 then 5. This indicates a move to f5 - and there is only one choice. Sometimes it would be more ambiguous, but in most cases when told something has to go to a square and there is a choice one will stand out.
@@Birdingtheorist It must be a very complex cheat. I'm not sure how he inputs the moves into the engine. If the board is streamed on TV, he would need someone else helping him. But if it's only on the board, it must be way more complex, something like voice input or idk how.
Can't be voice you can't talk otb.
They usually just go to the toilet to check their phones and get the best moves or lines. It said he was caught going to the toilet with a phone in his sock. Usually with most of these cheating cases they just check the engine a couple of times during the game.
Cheaters should be banned for life from any tournament
At 4:40 I actually thought of f5 but then I thought it would be better to capture the pawn at b4 first making the knight extremely vulnerable/passive
I was thinking f5 too, that Q manoeuvre e8/f8 I have no idea about, the final Qxe3 seems pretty straightforward tactics at my level (1800-2000).
Did a little bit of detective work myself, pretty straight forward to figure it out with the information given in the article. What a silly sausage.
Edit: what's really crazy is this game is still counted on his record as a win.
That is crazy!!
@@FlapjackMcGee Depends on the rules. He probably was not caught cheating in this game, so if the rules are not retroactive, but simply expulsion after being caught, that's that. Also, while In round-robin tournament it is ok to just annul all the games as if he never existed, in a Swiss system it is probably difficult to void all previous results - that could penalize innocent people.
Sorry, I must be missing something, why can’t you bloke the check with the knight (f3-e1)?
Start at 12:40
I have put a lot of things into my socks when I was a teenager, but a phone is not one of them 😂
I only ever put three things into my socks as a teenager
I dont know man looks like a pretty straight normal game
12:14 Why does Ne1 not work?
It is not a legal move
I think the title is slightly misleading, he snuck the phone into his sock which they spotted on him as he was going to use the bathroom.
imo if you cheat or do criminal stuff, you lost your right to remain private.
Cheating in a board game is not a criminal offense. Keep some perspective, please. Suspend him for a long time, I agree, but you don't have to ruin his life over a dumb mistake.
That's a disgusting attitude.
@@kylezo i know. when youre a little coward who needs to cheat you want to create a fake impression. because impressions matter, what other people think really matters. and instead of thinking youre a great player, they think youre just silly. thats unacceptable for little coward. disgusting !
the truth is often disgusting. but its still the truth. and those who want to censor the truth are truly disgusting. your silly outrage is disgusting !
At this point black player can actually go for rook b8 white queen can go to only a7 only to be attacked by white color bishop by placing it on ç8 and white Queen is gone
F5 was a dead giveaway.
16...f5 is known book theory and has been played by Ding (more than once), Jakovenko, Kravtsiv, Zhao, etc. It is perfectly possible to know this if you study enough. I have had an OTB rated game (league) that was in prep for over 35 moves, albeit not in a Reverse Benoni Reti. 17. Ned2 is not the theory - correct there is Nc5 - so in anti-cheating it is best to start detection from there. The "mysterious" queen moves are the suspicious part here. The final calculation is really not very difficult for a classical game and should be well within a decent tournament player's capabilities.
It is not. As a 1846 rated player (OTB) I can say that it feels very natural to play or at least consider f5
"-Something smells fishy" the judge said, then he realized: "Oh wait... it's just the guy's socks" :D
Obvious question is how did this person look at their phone if it was in their sock?
vibration
Probably he just went to the toilet when there was a difficult moment, analysed as many lines as possible and came back. That explains why some moves weren't the best moves, too.
@@Mmmeeee4 so how does a vibrating phone help him?
@@insightphoto morse code, but the vibrating phone is speculation.
Either he snuck off to the restroom, or he knows Morse code and can understand KxE5 based off the number of buzzes.
I still don't understand: how he did the cheat if his phone was in his sock. Did he take out the phone under the table and type his enemy's move to see what the chess app replied? If he didn't see his phone, how could he know what the move he should made?
How do they cheat even if they have phone in socks ?
Maybe they went to the bathroom and used their phone there to look up best moves
@@SteveK-ir9zwya but it will take time to set the position
@@SteveK-ir9zwhow mean how many bathroom breaks do you need before someone got suspicious?
If the game is live streamed or published in real time, it is also possible to have outside help. There are mini earbuds that can be concealed, there are glasses that conduct vibrations via bone, and of course anal beads. It is stunningly easy to cheat if there is a live stream an if the tournament does not have near paranoid security measures such as x-ray or metal detectors.
@@bjornlangoren3002 come to think of it, a man did cheat using one of those methods during poker. He also had help from someone who actually worked at the poker event
9:22 why would Qd7 or Qd6 be a weird move? Was literally the first move that came into my mind. Putting pressure on the backward pawn and moving the queen out of the file with the opposing rook. Seems really logical to me.
The only move i think is obviously an engine move is f5, because the logic behind that move just seems alot like an engine. You may consider it, because it attacks a piece, but who would actually play like that, thinking the king would be perfectly safe on f2
For all the other moves its not really hard to find reasoning. Qxd3 for example may seem like a comlicated tactical idea, but its classical time control and taking something should always be considered a candidate move.
I myself am 1750 fide and i think i could find all of these moves individually. Could i find them all in a single game? Probably not, but if it hadnt been for the phone in his sock id give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he just likes his feet warm 😂
To be fair Nelson is about a 2248 and I've seen him lose fair and square to players of around this rating
Pardon me, but on the first critical move, why not castle king's side? That would put black's power between the king, and white's queen. It would make a back-row attack more difficult? But- I must be wrong. What am I missing?
Why not name the guy? Why protect someone intent on damaging the game?
Exactly.
Probably to avoid being sued
When I last played competitive OTB chess my rating was 1500-something. That was long ago and chess engines were just becoming stronger than the best humans. There's no way I would have spotted those moves in my best form. Those were super GM level tactics.
21 book moves by both of them combined, is that normal 😂
accidentally just commented that it was normal, only normal for the fm
@@QuiteCringeI have that as a 1900 rapid player in the alapin Sicilian often
@@KingPanda-lp5ir nice! Don’t see more than like 3 each at the 800 level haha
@@KingPanda-lp5ir yes, but 1900 does not translate to 1600 otb, more 1700 - 1800
I see where you're coming from though, these are pretty normal opening moves
What was wrong with Ne1 there are the end? Doesn't that hold it together for white? He is not losing anything.
Rd7 will disconnect the Queen from protecting the Knight. So, no. It doesn't not hold anything together...for more than one more move.
@@anderslarsen4412 It is the best try though, Rd7, Kf1 Qd7+
Harreman, Joeri is their name, for anyone wondering since Nelson wont reveal it. The match in the video is from the 5th round vs FM Van Baar, Esper. These cheaters dont deserve any mercy and the public should know who they are
The stress of checking my socks every body would see and I would loose for sure.
Best chess video creator❤
I'd be interested to know how he actually accomplished the cheating. Just a phone in the sock alone doesn't reveal how he was able to input the moves and read out the suggested moves at critical positions.
12:10 Why not block with the knight?
Rook d2 blocking the opponent's queen, and it's unstoppable. If opponent king moves to f1 then queen e2 check to make it move back (and mate)
@@warmpianist There is Rd2
I once played a guy in a tournament who was wearing some kind of electronic hearing aid, I lost, and when I analyzed the game at home he played almost all engine moves...
The sock spoke for itself.
But how did he use the phone when it was in his sock?
There's already a person who is both First and Second😂😂
If you can’t be smart just bring a smart phone
As a Dutch person, I can confirm this, but we have good tournaments and referees, come check the chess festival in Groningen and the ONK in Dieren
Terrible Olympics committee though. Let child rapists represent the country, but ban top golfers who qualify fairly and don't rape children from competing. Sorry, but every Dutch person needs to be shamed over this in the comments because that mindset in sports is not ok.
Wasn't too difficult to find who it was :-)
Terrible video - he condones cheating in chess yet doesn't explain how the cheater could possibly do so with a phone in his sock otb nor does he disclose the cheaters name (you have to expose these losers).
Hans Niemann has left the chat.
Haha yup
The system worked in this case. More importantly, I made a new friend-Zura-your bughouse partner, seems like a great guy.
Show his name. Don't give cheaters the luxury of anonymity because they don't deserve it.
Cheating is a cultural issue. Certain cultures glorify cheating and consider those who do not cheat as inferior. Its as simple as that.
No one is gonna say that there were so many book moves
Thought the same thing
Unrealistic prep by a 1600
You guys make It seem like 1600’s are complete trash. It’s a reason why this guy has a course on the *road to 1500.*
@@MISCHEIVIOUSLOKICHESSI mean if the 1600 knew his opponents would be playing the KIA it’s not so unrealistic
You can play up to 20-25 prep moves in some openings.
I don't understand how the guy cheats with his phone in his sock. How many times can he run to the bathroom?
I would like to post this on reddit, if I wasn't banned from r/ chess for cheating posts)
Actually nevermind, I created a subbredit specifically for this
*Why the heck would you hide the cheater name?? So, he can cheat on the rest of us?? That makes you as bad as the cheater! It means you condone his behavior since you don't want to expose him?? Knowing who the cheater is will mean that if I have to play him, I will be watching more carefully to make sure he doesn't cheat against me. It means I will put my guard up when playing this person. Otherwise, I'm relaxed when playing.* *Keep in mind the cheater brought this on himself, you don't own him any favor by keeping his name hidden.*
Little chance of playing him - he's suspended of course, and no tournament will ever allow him in.
@@tinnderbox3410 *There's a lot of smaller tournaments that are not as diligent in their security and don't know who on the chess black list.*
13:08 that's not giving 'giving up your queen' that's just checkmate with queen to b2 after the queen gets pinned by the bishop.
Why wouldn’t you release his name? He should be banned for life! Cheating is killing chess.
not gonna lie, i thought about f5 but i considered it a passive move like, "there's gotta be a better move than f5"
Why cheat if you are playing at 1650 ELO? What could you possibly gain?
11:56 he could block the check with the knight on f3 and will be protected by the white queen. You did not cover this line
Nelson, all ur stuff is excellent. To be clear, I suck at chess. Have a 10 min time control of 800. However I spend a ton of time with puzzles, just because I enjoy them, and hover around 2400 over past few months. This vid makes me realize that a "puzzle guy" simply looks at position as a "state" without any grip on history. I had that pawn push ad an option of equal weight with other ideas. I 'liked it' for totally different / wrong intent, which was clearing knights out of way preventing any assault on opponents kings. Just interesting how much 'mindset' matters in evaluating and picking moves.
That f5 is maybe weird from a 2200+ player view but it takes space, attacks a knight forcing it to retreat and you can take that pawn on the next move unless white sacrifices his knight to save that pawn so as a 1200 player who likes to push his pawns forward instead of developing I find that f5 move completely legit. It would be my top 1 move on classic for sure. In a rapid game I would take the pawn immediately.
and no one saw him pull the phone out of his socks and the smell of cheese lingering?
It was me. I wuz wrongly accused. I hide money and phone in my socks for safekeeping all the time .
Don't believe everything you hear
if you tell the players that they can cheat but not visibly the player that is not cheating would win.
He wasn't brave enough for the beads.
I still don't see how he was using his phone to cheat if it was in his sock. I mean was he pulling it out all conspicuously? How would he use it without it being very noticeable?
Wow you're the first guy that knows how to use the eq for his shure mic. Thats all