He said “take away the subsidies for EV… but also take away the subsidies for gas vehicles. All we want is a level playing field.” That was the key point he was making
@@wolfgangpreier9160 - @danielsteinberg7698 - If you bothered to read the recent quarterly financial statements, you'd probably think differently. Here it is if you have an interest. www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017023033872/tsla-20230630.htm
Learn from the Chinese? The Chinese are learning from Tesla. Learn from the best or pack it in. I expect that two or three legacy automakers will sign technology licensing agreements with Tesla sometime in the next 12 months.
Just before that he said Tesla is basically a chinese company. Why are all these guys not giving credit to Elon and the Tesla team? Why is there constant undermining about the brillance of the Elon's Tesla master plan from 2008?
I would say China does have lessons to give and the key is the government working along side their companies. The CCP early last decade laid out a vision to have their nation take over the automotive world via the change to EVs. China has made mistakes, but NIO and BYD got very big helping hands from the CCP. Wish the US was better at working with Tesla, but it seems politics is causing issues, caused by both Musk and current leadership.
Just about everybody already signed to adopt the Tesla NAC charging port for the North American market, I don't know who has not, if they did not their EV is dead in the water.
Lol that's the funniest part. Every Chinese company/CEO has said that they use Tesla as a benchmark but Big 3 wants to learn from Chinese as if Tesla is not a US company. 😂😂😂😂
Elon needs subsidies. Americans cry about capitalism but when they foreclose on their homes they want the gov't to bail them out. When your 401k goes to shit... govt bailout. School loans.... Govt bail outs. Americans cant wait to get on social security. Electric cars... You are being conned by a con man.
It is the declaration of the Geezer on the White throne in Washington who said Elon is Enemy Number One to the USA. Kamala took up the cepter from him and added communist ideas and goals to expropriate all millionaires and above on the whole US of A.
4:24 how can you say Tesla is a Chinese company because they have a factory in China? At the same time the GM and Stellantis and EU manufacturers having factories and joint ventures at China as well and much longer??? And how can you accuse Tesla people of learning fast from China while the GM could have done the same for much longer thanks to their joint ventures??? And at the same time Tesla is accused that the Chinese learn from Tesla??? This guy talks absolute rubbish or has no memory.
Tesla patients are free to use but legacy automakers shunned them as inferior or amateurish but the Chinese automakers used them and think highly of Elon Musk. Even the Xi and his lieutenants think he is a genius. The U.S. elites think he is a fool!😮
Absolutely love you guys, but can we PLEASE get some guests under 60 on here? The people who are truly disrupting this industry are average 40yo. We need to be talking to them and not talking to people who are talking about them. Thank you!
Lots of wisdom in the older generation. You also get better answers and more thorough explanations because they don’t have their future careers to lose, that giant mortgage looming, and kids trying to get into private school…
@@aussie2uGA Or they are massively biased due to a lifetime covering a different industry with different technology and different processes. Half of these "wise" old men don't have any clue what they are talking about. Why do I say that? Because the other half disagrees with them. So one half or another are wrong here. @chrisg8995 is right. Let's get the guys who are changing the industry in here, not the talking heads who talk about the ones changing things. Getting real sick and tired of hearing "software-defined cars" blowhard marketing hype BS from people who have no clue how software development works or how it adds or doesn't add value to a product. Zero credibility from these guys.
I am not expecting Musk to use his pending role in Washington to line his own pockets. Don’t forget that Tesla made all it patents available to anyone who wanted to use them for EV development/production. Also remember Tesla opened up the Tesla SuperCharger network to anyone who asked for it, while it represented a huge competitive advantage to Tesla - a moat so to speak. The mission of Tesla is to accelerate the move to sustainable transportation and sustainable energy, and sharing the supercharger network fits that mission. So does sharing patents. No other company in history has acted like this. As far as FSD is concerned, I am not expecting a problem with regulatory approval. FSD is already far safer than the average driver. In a few months it will be safer than any human driver. I expect the regulators will be coming after Tesla, demanding that they make FSD universally available as opposed to keeping it for themselves - lives will be saved. No more human drivers please. If you are a car guy, store your pleasure car at a private track where it can be enjoyed without putting members of the general public at risk for no reason - thank you. I also don’t expect Musk to take steps to make things better for Tesla at the expense of Legacy Auto. I expect him to be fair an even handed with all the suggestions he makes for streamlining government. I expect Musk will scrutinize excessive regulation and try to suggest cuts in these areas. I also expect that Musk will be uniquely positioned to make a difference if a DOGE is setup. When an average lawmaker first enters the House or the Senate, he/she as a winner of a popularity contest and has little or no vision of the Washington machine or what could or should be done to make it work better. Such lawmakers will most likely be back benchers for their first term so they can get their feet wet and understand the bureaucracy and how it works. Next term it is too late for clear “outside looking in vision” as they have been indoctrinated and are most likely unable to act as they have learned not to “upset the apple cart” .
It’s been painful watching some of these industry discussions over the last few years. I run a small biz in the UK and my only qualifications in the automotive sector is as an owner and customer of BMW. Up until 2014, when I sought out and sat in an i3, I’d owned 19 BMWs, the last one being a V8 4.6 7 series, but even I could see that electrification was the future. These discussions you’ve been having over the years track the painful and gradual realisation that this is the case and EVs aren’t going away, despite the deluge of lies, false facts and plain bullshit spouted by the media and indeed the OEMs, in a bid to slow down public acceptance and maintain the polluting status quo.
Listening to you, gentlemen, it is easy to see why the US is in such decline, particularly in the auto industry segment, and why the Chinese have leaped frogged us in a matter of a few years. Given the Macro and Micro conditions in the US I am not confident that the US will be able to come back from this in the foreseeable future.
Chinese companies are not very automated and can not compete with Tesla in the US labor market, so coping Chinese companies will not be enough to complete with Tesla in the US.
Love the show and feel the frustrations you and your guests are discussing. Question, I hear “Except for Tesla” said almost every week. So how is Tesla able to make low cost, high quality, profitable EVs in California, Texas and Germany, not just China? Even in China, Tesla is the only profitable EV producer. They “are” the model for how vehicles will be profitably built regardless of where they are manufactured. I also highly recommend having someone regularly on the show that owned, drives and services a Tesla because how they take care of their customers/service is another area Detroit OEM miss the mark and will need to improve to be competitive.
Listening to Gary Vasilash talk about technology from this century feels exactly like listening to Kamala Harris talk about cloud computing. Maybe it's time to get a new copilot sitting next to John?
By 2035, all trucking companies will want to buy electric semis because the economics are better, much better. Owning diesel trucks will become a competitive disadvantage🥰
EVs have 30% fewer parts, and require less labor to assemble. Some EV parts are currently more expensive, batteries in particular, but once economies of scale happen, and manufacturing techniques become more efficient, EVs will be cheaper to produce and sell. Chinese EV manufacturers have already discovered this. Currently domestic manufacturers are insisting upon building hybrids, which have the cost and complexity of both EVs and ICE vehicles; this is not a brilliant plan. Domestics may as well start planning that inevitable road trip to Oblivion now, and drive their in their own hybrids to get there. 再见
People buy hybrids because they are scared of EVs, and dealers love them. But they are a passing fancy once more charging comes online and folks get experience with EVs. Cutting back on EV plans to build hybrids is eating your seed corn.
The younger generation that they discussed is not interested in buying cars. They are waiting for robo taxis. Transportation as a service. Robo taxis will replace more than Uber and Lyft.
Elon mentioned the Cybercab manufacturing line will be half an order of magnitude faster then current lines... One order of magnitude is 10x, half of that is 5x . If a 5 time faster mfg process is true. That's extremely disruptive. Tesla appears to be moving faster, rather then legacy catching up, they are falling further behind.
Technically, 1 order of magnitude is 10^1 = 10 while half an order of magnitude is 10^0.5 = 3.16 So Elon was talking about an acceleration of 3.16x, roughly, meaning bringing down build times from one car per 30 seconds to one every 9.5 seconds or so. Still super fast and world-leading by far. Just an easy mistake to make as to what half an order of magnitude represents. You cut the exponential in half, not the output.
Legacy auto should go heavy into EREVs. Every true EREV sold adds to the scale of EV production. Legacy auto should offer an EREV version of every BEV.
I just love listening to these ... can we say with respect... Old timers? They have so much knowledge and are trying very hard to lead the US auto industry in the direction where they will not need a bail out. I do believe that GM, Ford and Stelantis will get a bail out from the US government to reorganize. The unions are going to have to give a bit of leeway in order for the big 3 to survive.
Musk, an efficiency position in the next administration, is about the powerful, bloated, regulatory agencies that equate to 4,000,000 employees that is not apart or the intended US Constitution. Regulatory agencies are not supposed to have the power they do. It is the responsibility of Congress, Executive, and Judicial. This is what hampers the abilities of the country in manufacturing, farming, and much, much more. Needs to be put through the strainer and limited. It's pretty bad when the California Ocean Agency can stop launches at Vanderberg Airforce Base, just one small example. I think you might understand when looking at it from this perspective. Thank You
5:33 No,what can you learn from Tesla, who taught the Chinese how to succeed in EV's and software designed cars (and was key in building out their hyper local EV supply chain).
You guys need to understand Elon is a very principal type person. He is anti-subsidies across the board, whether it hurts him or helps him. He has confidence in being able to compete in any fair market without any government help whatsoever. This includes oil and gas subsidies. Cut them all. Let the free market do what it does best.
You talk about 2032 mandates for full EV and don't mention impact of autonomous cars and trucks. If Tesla is right then cost of transportation will drop radically and +90% will be EVs.
Not really, Right now it cost about 61 cents per mile to travel in the USA using gasoline with an electric car it is more like 40-45 cents. Elon said his Robo taxi will cost 20 cents per mile to operate. He also said 50% of miles on the Robo cab will be empty so each mile you hail will cost a minimum of 40 cents per mile, then add in more for Tesla profit and car owner profit and the minimum is like 50 cents a mile or more.
The most important regulatory need to further Tesla's mission (which is to move the world away from fossil fuels) is to reform the bureaucracy that controls power transmission lines. Approvals take over 10 years for even modest proposals for new power lines. Photovoltaic power with (Tesla built) massive battery backup in the US southwest deserts is the cheapest power in the world. Power line approval is the hold up. Having said that, the Biden administration failed to do anything and they claim to want to grow green power. Given Trump's ties to oil companies it is doubtful that even Musk could convince him to reform this key regulatory problem. A pity.
If Lord Elon is a good boy, Trump may let Lord Elon on his next trading card, but I don't know how Musk will feel about the fat guy on his back while Musk has a bit in his mouth.
I think Chinese get a big advantage from owning the supply chain. That’s hard for the legacy companies to replicate and probably an area where the Chinese are devoting lots of subsidies.
I've heard Elon praise Ford and reference their research and production processes multiple times as an "inspiration". He even had his own plan called Highland Park. Ford just needs to be themselves. Be confident. Do what you've always done - be smarter than everyone else There's a reason they didn't need a direct cash infusion in 2009. They had already seen the writing on the wall and prepared themselves for a new strategy
@@seanjones21 they took a $6 billion loan from the federal government in 2009 just to survive and it’s not repaid. They took over $9 billion last year to build battery factories. Maybe keep your cakehole closed.
28:17 if I had a nickel for every time General Motors created a vehicle that was ahead of its time and it didn’t wanna be, I would have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.
The legacy companies do not want to change, the unions do not want to change, the suppliers do not want to change. Plain and simple. They are screwing themselves in the long run. Goodbye legacy automalers.
Stellantis sat on their hands for years knowing these EV mandates were coming. Mismanagement focused on greed instead of investing in the future. The workers will pay for a changing world where autoworkers are left behind. Should of saved your money in the good times.
Jim Farley was referring to the Xiaomi SU7 because Xiaomi only produce one saleable car, as yet. Besides, I heard his actual words said to Robert Llewellyn's Fully Charged podcast on the Everything Electric Show. here on YT.
They have been getting lithium out of the ground for over 60 years in Arkansas. Although they were extracting some other mineral, and then pumping the lithium back into the ground with the saltwater brine. They also have oil, natural gas, silica and quartz among many others. GM has announced that they will be profitable in EV’s by the end of the year. This year. Elon has already said that he wants them to do away with the subsidies. He says he doesn’t need them.
@@richardfolden3860Not so fast, GM just this week said, their EV’s will be profitable by the end of the this year. I have looked at a new Equinox and it is more like what I’d really like to have. I just don’t do GM.
@@ricktotty2283 lol, but why would you believe anything GM says? Barra said 2-3 years ago(?) that GM would have 25(?) models and that they would be the world leader. It’s just more BS from them and when the IRA goes away (🤞🏾) it gets even worse. “GM says” has zero value.
The other challenge with charging is not just the number of locations, it is changes of the tech going on. There is fear of investing hundreds of millions into charging stations that will then have to have hundreds of millions in upgrades to adapt to the newer tech. If what Tesla claimed with the wireless charging they are working on is true, this could kill off the need for standing charging stations with cables. Instead there will be parking spaces, which is likely cheaper to do and more communities will be open to the idea of parking lots being upgraded that looks wise does not change much. The fear of not enough EV demand is not the issue, it is the fear of investing huge resources into something that will be outdated in a short period of time.
Lol, you (and government) don’t need to invest anything at all. Tesla already handled it. And there will be way fewer cars on the road in the coming years.
Switching a charging slot from wired to wireless is fairly easy. Far easier than a new installation. You have the power, the permits, contracts, etc already in place. Cost to covert is about 1/20 that of installing a new Charger.
The whole conversation is about "cars" - LOL... While NIO is a tech company that designs chips, software, cell phones, energy storage, batteries and lastly cars. But most people in the west only see the "cars"... I get it... sometimes you're standing so close to something you can't even see it for what it truly is... Volks "wagon" - the issue is in the name...
NIO has operated at a loss since it was founded. Not a good company to model. BYD operates at a profit in China. If they try to operate the same way in western countries it won't work. Labor cost would eat them alive. The Chinese are modeling Tesla's processes now.
Joe couldn’t fly his leftist flag any harder when he uses the term billionaire in a derogatory way. John you gotta stop having that deuche bag on the show; plenty of better analysts you could invite on that have better thinking skills
When comparing Tesla earnings to the legacy makers, don't forget the carbon credits revenue which was $739 million in Q3. Y'all seem to focus too much about the cars themselves which didn't grow nearly as much as a Elon has promised (50% annually).
The subsidies is only being payed out if the car uses the US produced batteries. If the subsidies goes away go figure where they will buy the batteries? Yes, China!
Nothing is unbelievable if you truly innovate. Benchmarking only suport slow progress, which is a passed station during revolutionary periods. Balls are needed, such as 80% layoffs at Twitter, to force change and stop internal obstruction
The comment about the super cheap EVs in China seems to ignore the super cheap ones are not great. As noted, these companies are selling at a loss and the CCP is helping keeping some of those companies up. Glad John hit on the crash standards. I do think China is going for the flood the world with cheap vehicles, even if it as a major loss, with the idea of killing off competitors so they can own the global market. Adding to the problem is how dependent many Western builders are on Chinese suppliers.
Elon does not have to be greedy to want a voice in Washington, he is working to defend Tesla, SpaceX etc. Imagine the impact on Tesla and EV adoption in general had Joe Biden at the EV Summit introduced Elon Musk and Tesla as the leading EV maker. How much would that have been worth to Tesla investors. Billions, that ended up with GM and they squandered it. Ford and Stallantis were foot notes at the Summit. Does anyone remember the effort Democrats made to tie IRA money to Unions. FSD is level 2, the driver is responsible. They are investigating software no longer in use. The only hope for these efforts to win is if the disregard or twist the law. GM's variable profitability was based on 400K EV sales in 2024, reality is that they will not meet the revised 200K target.
Tesla has and is making so much money from selling carbon credits, that no matter what happens in the political landscape, the company will still be competitive, profitable, and successful, going forward, and Musk knows that. So that allows him to do what ever he wants to do.
I love the fact that the US has found a large supply of lithium in Arkansas and Elon will need to be able to get access to it without too much regulations.
No way is a car going to come china and sell for 10 G's and pass all the US specs period. Tesla already said they didn't agree with taxpayer hand outs to car buyers.
Li Auto does not sell BEVs. BYD does not exclusively sell BEVs. I think that in order to say that a company is profitable on EVs you have to define it as BEVs. Else you could say that Toyota has been profitable on EVs for decades since they were profitable (I think) on the Prius.
Frankly, I'm disappointed in Autoline for wasting time on this topic. It's all just political theater. There is no substance to it in effecting the auto industry at large.
Has to shut down so many more as they are obsolete!!! Sales in China soon below 1 mio, loosing their profits out of china completely!! Lost the engineering quality and zero competence in software.
Who are you? And what have you done with the Autoline Team? Suddenly Tesla is doing everything right and EVs are the way of the future? And Legacy needs to wake up and smell the coffee ☕️? Blocking my ears. I can’t bear to hear this blasphemy 😮
32:33 I'm 55. Just bought a new car (BYD Seal), put solar panels on home (18Mwh/year) &, 30 TSLA for U$50k. Mind you I live in the land of Oz with no tariffs on imports. I can afford to drive my car whenever I want at night and every other day😅. The Seal is a nice car.
Elon has had to put up with an administration that won't even use the word "Tesla". They have never acknowledged any of Spacex's acomplishments. Not hard to understand why he supports Trump.
I've been following Tesla closely for years. I'm heavily Invested in them and own a Model 3... I think this discussion is actually pretty insightful. Even Gary, who has previously been an EV dinosaur, shows he has a nuanced understanding of Elon's thinking.
@@jamesvandamme7786 uhmm yes. more efficiently charged coils will allow for even minimal sunlight to propery power a solar powered car. This threatens pathetic corporate interests however and we all know those with little integrity would rather make money than save the earth, which nullifies everything they say in the first place. lol
@@Xterminate13 As hoffinger pointed out above, you get 2 horsepower off a car sized roof. That's when the sun is shining, and doesn't include motor losses. Good luck running on that. Better to charge during the many hours a day you aren't driving.
@jamesvandamme7786 as I said earlier, with say, a correct component arranged properly.... might cause said solar car to exist. I'll find out exactly how such a coil system works and I'll relay it back here. Metaphorically speaking I'm showing horse drawn buggy industry how a horseless carriage works. Be back soon.
@@richardfolden3860 Good for you. My point is people like to stay with what they know and EV’s are new and scary for some. EV’s will become the popular in the not too distant future.
Sales for cybertruck are way below the two million reservations. Sooner or later those sales are going to diminish greatly. Its not a good indicator of Tesla sales
Musk said, "Take away the subsidies. It will only help Tesla."
They should get rid of the subsidies. Let the free market play out.
Take away the subsidies and there is no Tesla. I love watching old white soft handed men solving the worlds problems.
@@danielsteinberg7698 "Take away the subsidies and there is no Tesla. " What a bunch of nonsense. 🤣😂
He said “take away the subsidies for EV… but also take away the subsidies for gas vehicles. All we want is a level playing field.” That was the key point he was making
@@wolfgangpreier9160 - @danielsteinberg7698 - If you bothered to read the recent quarterly financial statements, you'd probably think differently. Here it is if you have an interest. www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017023033872/tsla-20230630.htm
Learn from the Chinese? The Chinese are learning from Tesla. Learn from the best or pack it in. I expect that two or three legacy automakers will sign technology licensing agreements with Tesla sometime in the next 12 months.
Just before that he said Tesla is basically a chinese company. Why are all these guys not giving credit to Elon and the Tesla team? Why is there constant undermining about the brillance of the Elon's Tesla master plan from 2008?
I would say China does have lessons to give and the key is the government working along side their companies. The CCP early last decade laid out a vision to have their nation take over the automotive world via the change to EVs. China has made mistakes, but NIO and BYD got very big helping hands from the CCP. Wish the US was better at working with Tesla, but it seems politics is causing issues, caused by both Musk and current leadership.
Just about everybody already signed to adopt the Tesla NAC charging port for the North American market, I don't know who has not, if they did not their EV is dead in the water.
lol ... well see.
Lol that's the funniest part. Every Chinese company/CEO has said that they use Tesla as a benchmark but Big 3 wants to learn from Chinese as if Tesla is not a US company. 😂😂😂😂
Elon has been calling for the elimination of consumer EV subsidies for years. So that's not the reason for cozying up to Trump
Elon needs subsidies. Americans cry about capitalism but when they foreclose on their homes they want the gov't to bail them out. When your 401k goes to shit... govt bailout. School loans.... Govt bail outs. Americans cant wait to get on social security. Electric cars... You are being conned by a con man.
It is the declaration of the Geezer on the White throne in Washington who said Elon is Enemy Number One to the USA.
Kamala took up the cepter from him and added communist ideas and goals to expropriate all millionaires and above on the whole US of A.
@@0Nick0 👍🏼 the lefties think the only ever motivation is money or envy.
4:24 how can you say Tesla is a Chinese company because they have a factory in China? At the same time the GM and Stellantis and EU manufacturers having factories and joint ventures at China as well and much longer??? And how can you accuse Tesla people of learning fast from China while the GM could have done the same for much longer thanks to their joint ventures??? And at the same time Tesla is accused that the Chinese learn from Tesla??? This guy talks absolute rubbish or has no memory.
21:36 cobolt? LFP doesn't use cobolt. What does is use cobolt? Fossil fuels.
blue color uses cobalt.
You know the funny origin of the word? Its medieval german mining language. It literally means Shiny Kobold Dung.
Major part of the problem is lack of executive leadership and vision. Like GM cancelling the EV1. 😂
She led. And it matters.
John, why don't legacy OEMs work with Tesla instead of China????
That can't be a serious question.
Pride
Tesla patients are free to use but legacy automakers shunned them as inferior or amateurish but the Chinese automakers used them and think highly of Elon Musk. Even the Xi and his lieutenants think he is a genius. The U.S. elites think he is a fool!😮
game, set, match. Detroit's goose will soon be brown and crispy.
It's already brown and crispy. Soon it will be black and charred 😂
Absolutely love you guys, but can we PLEASE get some guests under 60 on here? The people who are truly disrupting this industry are average 40yo. We need to be talking to them and not talking to people who are talking about them. Thank you!
@thelimitingfactor @futuraza etc
And preferably people not exclusively from Detroit. We don't care if it is over video chat.
Lots of wisdom in the older generation. You also get better answers and more thorough explanations because they don’t have their future careers to lose, that giant mortgage looming, and kids trying to get into private school…
@@aussie2uGA Or they are massively biased due to a lifetime covering a different industry with different technology and different processes.
Half of these "wise" old men don't have any clue what they are talking about. Why do I say that? Because the other half disagrees with them.
So one half or another are wrong here.
@chrisg8995 is right. Let's get the guys who are changing the industry in here, not the talking heads who talk about the ones changing things.
Getting real sick and tired of hearing "software-defined cars" blowhard marketing hype BS from people who have no clue how software development works or how it adds or doesn't add value to a product.
Zero credibility from these guys.
I am not expecting Musk to use his pending role in Washington to line his own pockets. Don’t forget that Tesla made all it patents available to anyone who wanted to use them for EV development/production. Also remember Tesla opened up the Tesla SuperCharger network to anyone who asked for it, while it represented a huge competitive advantage to Tesla - a moat so to speak. The mission of Tesla is to accelerate the move to sustainable transportation and sustainable energy, and sharing the supercharger network fits that mission. So does sharing patents. No other company in history has acted like this.
As far as FSD is concerned, I am not expecting a problem with regulatory approval. FSD is already far safer than the average driver. In a few months it will be safer than any human driver. I expect the regulators will be coming after Tesla, demanding that they make FSD universally available as opposed to keeping it for themselves - lives will be saved. No more human drivers please. If you are a car guy, store your pleasure car at a private track where it can be enjoyed without putting members of the general public at risk for no reason - thank you.
I also don’t expect Musk to take steps to make things better for Tesla at the expense of Legacy Auto. I expect him to be fair an even handed with all the suggestions he makes for streamlining government. I expect Musk will scrutinize excessive regulation and try to suggest cuts in these areas. I also expect that Musk will be uniquely positioned to make a difference if a DOGE is setup. When an average lawmaker first enters the House or the Senate, he/she as a winner of a popularity contest and has little or no vision of the Washington machine or what could or should be done to make it work better. Such lawmakers will most likely be back benchers for their first term so they can get their feet wet and understand the bureaucracy and how it works. Next term it is too late for clear “outside looking in vision” as they have been indoctrinated and are most likely unable to act as they have learned not to “upset the apple cart”
.
It’s been painful watching some of these industry discussions over the last few years. I run a small biz in the UK and my only qualifications in the automotive sector is as an owner and customer of BMW. Up until 2014, when I sought out and sat in an i3, I’d owned 19 BMWs, the last one being a V8 4.6 7 series, but even I could see that electrification was the future. These discussions you’ve been having over the years track the painful and gradual realisation that this is the case and EVs aren’t going away, despite the deluge of lies, false facts and plain bullshit spouted by the media and indeed the OEMs, in a bid to slow down public acceptance and maintain the polluting status quo.
Rueters is anti Tesla.
All obsolete media companies are anti-Musk, hence anti-Tesla. Probably because X is dooming them to irrelevance.
Listening to you, gentlemen, it is easy to see why the US is in such decline, particularly in the auto industry segment, and why the Chinese have leaped frogged us in a matter of a few years. Given the Macro and Micro conditions in the US I am not confident that the US will be able to come back from this in the foreseeable future.
USA still owns the best tech, Chinese don't drive 12000 miles a year.
Chinese companies are not very automated and can not compete with Tesla in the US labor market, so coping Chinese companies will not be enough to complete with Tesla in the US.
Love the show and feel the frustrations you and your guests are discussing.
Question, I hear “Except for Tesla” said almost every week. So how is Tesla able to make low cost, high quality, profitable EVs in California, Texas and Germany, not just China?
Even in China, Tesla is the only profitable EV producer. They “are” the model for how vehicles will be profitably built regardless of where they are manufactured.
I also highly recommend having someone regularly on the show that owned, drives and services a Tesla because how they take care of their customers/service is another area Detroit OEM miss the mark and will need to improve to be competitive.
Listening to Gary Vasilash talk about technology from this century feels exactly like listening to Kamala Harris talk about cloud computing. Maybe it's time to get a new copilot sitting next to John?
By 2035, all trucking companies will want to buy electric semis because the economics are better, much better. Owning diesel trucks will become a competitive disadvantage🥰
Very interesting episode
Good talk
EVs have 30% fewer parts, and require less labor to assemble. Some EV parts are currently more expensive, batteries in particular, but once economies of scale happen, and manufacturing techniques become more efficient, EVs will be cheaper to produce and sell. Chinese EV manufacturers have already discovered this. Currently domestic manufacturers are insisting upon building hybrids, which have the cost and complexity of both EVs and ICE vehicles; this is not a brilliant plan. Domestics may as well start planning that inevitable road trip to Oblivion now, and drive their in their own hybrids to get there. 再见
People buy hybrids because they are scared of EVs, and dealers love them. But they are a passing fancy once more charging comes online and folks get experience with EVs. Cutting back on EV plans to build hybrids is eating your seed corn.
ford transit is the same price bev or ice before rebates
Telsa has a huge service side issue now, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets getter.
@@craighermle7727yawn, no it doesn’t.
The battery costs will flatline in the next 5 years. Cant have those metals for cheap.
You should do a show on the legacy auto going under. Followed by the Chinese auto going under. Because of automation both production and self driving
The younger generation that they discussed is not interested in buying cars. They are waiting for robo taxis. Transportation as a service. Robo taxis will replace more than Uber and Lyft.
Elon mentioned the Cybercab manufacturing line will be half an order of magnitude faster then current lines... One order of magnitude is 10x, half of that is 5x . If a 5 time faster mfg process is true. That's extremely disruptive. Tesla appears to be moving faster, rather then legacy catching up, they are falling further behind.
Technically, 1 order of magnitude is 10^1 = 10 while half an order of magnitude is 10^0.5 = 3.16 So Elon was talking about an acceleration of 3.16x, roughly, meaning bringing down build times from one car per 30 seconds to one every 9.5 seconds or so. Still super fast and world-leading by far. Just an easy mistake to make as to what half an order of magnitude represents. You cut the exponential in half, not the output.
Legacy auto should go heavy into EREVs. Every true EREV sold adds to the scale of EV production.
Legacy auto should offer an EREV version of every BEV.
I just love listening to these ... can we say with respect... Old timers? They have so much knowledge and are trying very hard to lead the US auto industry in the direction where they will not need a bail out. I do believe that GM, Ford and Stelantis will get a bail out from the US government to reorganize. The unions are going to have to give a bit of leeway in order for the big 3 to survive.
Elon embracing Trump could bring a lot of new Republican buyers into the EV market. Could sell a lot of Teslas.
It doesn’t matter either way. People will buy the best bang for the buck.
Good discussion.
Musk, an efficiency position in the next administration, is about the powerful, bloated, regulatory agencies that equate to 4,000,000 employees that is not apart or the intended US Constitution. Regulatory agencies are not supposed to have the power they do. It is the responsibility of Congress, Executive, and Judicial.
This is what hampers the abilities of the country in manufacturing, farming, and much, much more. Needs to be put through the strainer and limited.
It's pretty bad when the California Ocean Agency can stop launches at Vanderberg Airforce Base, just one small example.
I think you might understand when looking at it from this perspective.
Thank You
5:33 No,what can you learn from Tesla, who taught the Chinese how to succeed in EV's and software designed cars (and was key in building out their hyper local EV supply chain).
DOGE department incoming!
You guys need to understand Elon is a very principal type person. He is anti-subsidies across the board, whether it hurts him or helps him. He has confidence in being able to compete in any fair market without any government help whatsoever.
This includes oil and gas subsidies.
Cut them all. Let the free market do what it does best.
Innovation. It’s ALL about innovation and speed of innovation and quality of innovation.
Innovation.
Told Ya! May the "soul searching" Episodes of After Hours begin......
34:20 investing in Trump? Nah, it is a hedge.
You talk about 2032 mandates for full EV and don't mention impact of autonomous cars and trucks. If Tesla is right then cost of transportation will drop radically and +90% will be EVs.
Not really, Right now it cost about 61 cents per mile to travel in the USA using gasoline with an electric car it is more like 40-45 cents. Elon said his Robo taxi will cost 20 cents per mile to operate. He also said 50% of miles on the Robo cab will be empty so each mile you hail will cost a minimum of 40 cents per mile, then add in more for Tesla profit and car owner profit and the minimum is like 50 cents a mile or more.
The most important regulatory need to further Tesla's mission (which is to move the world away from fossil fuels) is to reform the bureaucracy that controls power transmission lines. Approvals take over 10 years for even modest proposals for new power lines. Photovoltaic power with (Tesla built) massive battery backup in the US southwest deserts is the cheapest power in the world. Power line approval is the hold up. Having said that, the Biden administration failed to do anything and they claim to want to grow green power. Given Trump's ties to oil companies it is doubtful that even Musk could convince him to reform this key regulatory problem. A pity.
If Lord Elon is a good boy, Trump may let Lord Elon on his next trading card, but I don't know how Musk will feel about the fat guy on his back while Musk has a bit in his mouth.
We are moving to decentralized power. The grid will become mostly irrelevant.
I think Chinese get a big advantage from owning the supply chain. That’s hard for the legacy companies to replicate and probably an area where the Chinese are devoting lots of subsidies.
Trump won't allow our manufacturing base to be destroyed. He's finally got smart people around him.
I've heard Elon praise Ford and reference their research and production processes multiple times as an "inspiration". He even had his own plan called Highland Park. Ford just needs to be themselves. Be confident. Do what you've always done - be smarter than everyone else
There's a reason they didn't need a direct cash infusion in 2009. They had already seen the writing on the wall and prepared themselves for a new strategy
There’s a reason they haven’t been able to repay their 15 year old “loan” and it’s because they kept on doing things the way they always did.
@@richardfolden3860 lol, they didn't take government moneygenius. It never happened
@@seanjones21 they took a $6 billion loan from the federal government in 2009 just to survive and it’s not repaid. They took over $9 billion last year to build battery factories. Maybe keep your cakehole closed.
@@seanjones21 they took $6 billion in 2009. They took $9.2 billion last year. I know, google is difficult for you. 🤦🏽♂️
@@richardfolden3860 They did not take a bailout. Full stop.
28:17 if I had a nickel for every time General Motors created a vehicle that was ahead of its time and it didn’t wanna be, I would have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.
The legacy companies do not want to change, the unions do not want to change, the suppliers do not want to change. Plain and simple. They are screwing themselves in the long run. Goodbye legacy automalers.
Stellantis sat on their hands for years knowing these EV mandates were coming. Mismanagement focused on greed instead of investing in the future. The workers will pay for a changing world where autoworkers are left behind. Should of saved your money in the good times.
Chinese car designs are decades ahead, including Tesla.
As before so be after :- over promises and overdue deliveries.
Jim Farley was referring to the Xiaomi SU7 because Xiaomi only produce one saleable car, as yet. Besides, I heard his actual words said to Robert Llewellyn's Fully Charged podcast on the Everything Electric Show. here on YT.
Whe I lived in Germany, the German co-workers would use the American F Y, because it sounds pithier than the German version..
F yes
They have been getting lithium out of the ground for over 60 years in Arkansas. Although they were extracting some other mineral, and then pumping the lithium back into the ground with the saltwater brine. They also have oil, natural gas, silica and quartz among many others. GM has announced that they will be profitable in EV’s by the end of the year. This year. Elon has already said that he wants them to do away with the subsidies. He says he doesn’t need them.
GM said they would lead the world in EV sales by now. They are FOS.
@@richardfolden3860Not so fast, GM just this week said, their EV’s will be profitable by the end of the this year. I have looked at a new Equinox and it is more like what I’d really like to have. I just don’t do GM.
@@ricktotty2283 lol, but why would you believe anything GM says? Barra said 2-3 years ago(?) that GM would have 25(?) models and that they would be the world leader. It’s just more BS from them and when the IRA goes away (🤞🏾) it gets even worse. “GM says” has zero value.
@@ricktotty2283 why would anybody be naïve enough to believe anything that GM says?
Just look at Xiaomi they developed and produced new EV from scratch in 1000 days, and now just broke Nurburgring lap record
The other challenge with charging is not just the number of locations, it is changes of the tech going on. There is fear of investing hundreds of millions into charging stations that will then have to have hundreds of millions in upgrades to adapt to the newer tech. If what Tesla claimed with the wireless charging they are working on is true, this could kill off the need for standing charging stations with cables. Instead there will be parking spaces, which is likely cheaper to do and more communities will be open to the idea of parking lots being upgraded that looks wise does not change much.
The fear of not enough EV demand is not the issue, it is the fear of investing huge resources into something that will be outdated in a short period of time.
Lol, you (and government) don’t need to invest anything at all. Tesla already handled it. And there will be way fewer cars on the road in the coming years.
Switching a charging slot from wired to wireless is fairly easy. Far easier than a new installation. You have the power, the permits, contracts, etc already in place. Cost to covert is about 1/20 that of installing a new Charger.
The whole conversation is about "cars" - LOL... While NIO is a tech company that designs chips, software, cell phones, energy storage, batteries and lastly cars. But most people in the west only see the "cars"... I get it... sometimes you're standing so close to something you can't even see it for what it truly is... Volks "wagon" - the issue is in the name...
NIO has operated at a loss since it was founded. Not a good company to model. BYD operates at a profit in China. If they try to operate the same way in western countries it won't work. Labor cost would eat them alive. The Chinese are modeling Tesla's processes now.
How many years was Tesla bleeding money? Musk's own admission Tesla was days away from bankruptcy.
Elon has always stated no substities.
Joe couldn’t fly his leftist flag any harder when he uses the term billionaire in a derogatory way. John you gotta stop having that deuche bag on the show; plenty of better analysts you could invite on that have better thinking skills
When comparing Tesla earnings to the legacy makers, don't forget the carbon credits revenue which was $739 million in Q3. Y'all seem to focus too much about the cars themselves which didn't grow nearly as much as a Elon has promised (50% annually).
The subsidies is only being payed out if the car uses the US produced batteries. If the subsidies goes away go figure where they will buy the batteries? Yes, China!
And they'll be cheaper and better, so prices won't change much. But not just batteries, whole cars from China.
Delorean is still around and making an EV Delorean
These guys are rattled. They should be.
Nothing is unbelievable if you truly innovate. Benchmarking only suport slow progress, which is a passed station during revolutionary periods.
Balls are needed, such as 80% layoffs at Twitter, to force change and stop internal obstruction
The comment about the super cheap EVs in China seems to ignore the super cheap ones are not great. As noted, these companies are selling at a loss and the CCP is helping keeping some of those companies up. Glad John hit on the crash standards.
I do think China is going for the flood the world with cheap vehicles, even if it as a major loss, with the idea of killing off competitors so they can own the global market. Adding to the problem is how dependent many Western builders are on Chinese suppliers.
Elon does not have to be greedy to want a voice in Washington, he is working to defend Tesla, SpaceX etc.
Imagine the impact on Tesla and EV adoption in general had Joe Biden at the EV Summit introduced Elon Musk and Tesla as the leading EV maker. How much would that have been worth to Tesla investors. Billions, that ended up with GM and they squandered it. Ford and Stallantis were foot notes at the Summit. Does anyone remember the effort Democrats made to tie IRA money to Unions.
FSD is level 2, the driver is responsible. They are investigating software no longer in use. The only hope for these efforts to win is if the disregard or twist the law.
GM's variable profitability was based on 400K EV sales in 2024, reality is that they will not meet the revised 200K target.
I remember. It's the reason I'm now an Independent.
Please.... If GM had developed the EV-1 and the tech surrounding it ( 1996) , there would be no Tesla. It's just that simple.
@@craighermle7727 Have said words to this effect many times. It was more profitable to lobby to have CARB back off on emissions than build BEVs.
UAW said they will not support either presidential candidate.
Who cares? Irrelevant organization.
Tesla has and is making so much money from selling carbon credits, that no matter what happens in the political landscape, the company will still be competitive, profitable, and successful, going forward, and Musk knows that.
So that allows him to do what ever he wants to do.
Musk wants evs, trump voter base doesn't. Lots of contradictions
I love the fact that the US has found a large supply of lithium in Arkansas and Elon will need to be able to get access to it without too much regulations.
NIO not a profitable BEV automaker! BYD is what he meant?
No way is a car going to come china and sell for 10 G's and pass all the US specs period. Tesla already said they didn't agree with taxpayer hand outs to car buyers.
Li Auto does not sell BEVs. BYD does not exclusively sell BEVs. I think that in order to say that a company is profitable on EVs you have to define it as BEVs. Else you could say that Toyota has been profitable on EVs for decades since they were profitable (I think) on the Prius.
Frankly, I'm disappointed in Autoline for wasting time on this topic. It's all just political theater. There is no substance to it in effecting the auto industry at large.
Well based on his past he should be firing 70% or govt workers. When he realizes they do nothing all day...
Cheap shot on FSD. Where is your source for your speculation? None?
8:50 going to have to? VW has shut two already.
Has to shut down so many more as they are obsolete!!!
Sales in China soon below 1 mio, loosing their profits out of china completely!!
Lost the engineering quality and zero competence in software.
Who are you? And what have you done with the Autoline Team? Suddenly Tesla is doing everything right and EVs are the way of the future? And Legacy needs to wake up and smell the coffee ☕️?
Blocking my ears. I can’t bear to hear this blasphemy 😮
32:33
I'm 55. Just bought a new car (BYD Seal), put solar panels on home (18Mwh/year) &, 30 TSLA for U$50k.
Mind you I live in the land of Oz with no tariffs on imports.
I can afford to drive my car whenever I want at night and every other day😅.
The Seal is a nice car.
trump should win this thing
Purple sweater guy really doesn’t understand the motivation behind Trump and Elon … sad to listen to the conversation
Elon has had to put up with an administration that won't even use the word "Tesla". They have never acknowledged any of Spacex's acomplishments. Not hard to understand why he supports Trump.
Four guys who don't know anything about EVs or Elon talk about EVs and Elon
I've been following Tesla closely for years. I'm heavily Invested in them and own a Model 3... I think this discussion is actually pretty insightful. Even Gary, who has previously been an EV dinosaur, shows he has a nuanced understanding of Elon's thinking.
No talk about nickel mining? 👎
Elon will be running for President in 2028.
He wasn't born in the US, not qualify
The guy in the purple sweater is a dolt
We are all doomed If Elon gets with Trump in the Whitehouse!
Not gonna happen.
Solar powered cars will revolutionize electric cars.
Um, no. You need a house roof sized panel array. Way more practical, especially if you park in a garage.
with 100% efficient panels there is 1500 watts / meter sq. Only enough to charge not to run on.
@@jamesvandamme7786 uhmm yes. more efficiently charged coils will allow for even minimal sunlight to propery power a solar powered car. This threatens pathetic corporate interests however and we all know those with little integrity would rather make money than save the earth, which nullifies everything they say in the first place. lol
@@Xterminate13 As hoffinger pointed out above, you get 2 horsepower off a car sized roof. That's when the sun is shining, and doesn't include motor losses. Good luck running on that. Better to charge during the many hours a day you aren't driving.
@jamesvandamme7786 as I said earlier, with say, a correct component arranged properly.... might cause said solar car to exist. I'll find out exactly how such a coil system works and I'll relay it back here. Metaphorically speaking I'm showing horse drawn buggy industry how a horseless carriage works. Be back soon.
What about having to negotiate with unions every step of the way? Do you think that might slow you down?
These guys are the ones that watch and read the news and believe that its real.
ALL these guys swallow whole.
I suppose you're an expert. Stable Genius, like Trump?
@@jamesvandamme7786 birds of a feather
If gas prices drop and stay around $2.50/gal ICE vehicles will do well but at $5.00 or more EV’s will sell well.
gas is $5 in Ca. EVS sell OK but only a quarter of sales.
I get 260 miles on 4 dollars of electricity. Gas would have to be 40 cents a gallon to compete.
@@hoffinger”only a quarter” lol. Have a look at an adoption S curve. 🤦🏽♂️
@@richardfolden3860 Good for you. My point is people like to stay with what they know and EV’s are new and scary for some. EV’s will become the popular in the not too distant future.
@@kradwonders it’s already a landslide speeding up. People will start to feel really dumb when they figure out how much money they needlessly wasted.
This isn’t worth discussing.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us care about the industry.
Sales for cybertruck are way below the two million reservations. Sooner or later those sales are going to diminish greatly. Its not a good indicator of Tesla sales
For every $5000 drop in price of a vehicle the addressable market doubles.
What's your evidence?
Only 20% of reservations were expected to be actually sales
Hell i reserved a cybertruck and did it for no reason
Lol, yeah so weird. I thought for sure they’d be able to manufacture all 2 million in one day and sell them. 🤦🏽♂️
Shit elon
@@elvisulufanua5071 wow, he must be really far up your pipe. Is it enjoyable?