One way of looking at it is to think of a pearl, which starts as a grain of sand around which calcium carbonate layers form as an immune response to the irritant until the pearl no longer resembles the speck that started it. Many legends have developed in this way, from the tale of the blind bard Homer onwards. Price believes that early Christianity was influenced by MiddleEastern myths about dying and rising deities that survived into the Greek and Roman periods. One was a Sumerian legend, ‘The Descent of Inanna’, which tells of the queen of heaven who attends an underworld funeral only to get killed by demons and hung from a hook like a piece of meat. Three days later, however, she’s rescued, rises from the dead, and returns to the land of the living. The outlaw and thief Robert Hod was fined for failing to appear in court in York in 1225 and a year later he reappeared in the court record, still at large. This could be the grain of sand that begat Robin Hood, whom many people assumed to have been a historical figure whose legend grew over the centuries. Robin started as a forest yeoman but morphed into a nobleman. He was later inserted into 12th-century history with King Richard the Lionheart and Prince John (earlier versions had Edward I), along with his ever-expanding band of outlaws. By the 16th century, he and his Merry Men had mutated from lovable rascals to rebels with a cause who ‘tooke from rich to give the poor’. The Jesus story likewise developed fresh layers over time. At the start of the common era, there may well have been several iconoclastic Jewish preachers, and one of them got up the noses of the Romans, who killed him. Soon his legend grew. New attributes and views were ascribed to him until, eventually, he became the heroic figure of the Messiah and son of God with his band of 12 not-so-merry men. The original grain of sand is less significant than most assume. The interesting bit is how it grew. aeon.co/essays/why-the-son-of-god-story-is-built-on-mythology-not-history.
If there was a world wide flood it probably happened at the end of the ice age, around 12,000 years ago. The great herds were dying and people were gathering around the coastlines. When the glaciers melted the sea levels rose about 400 feet, erasing the coasts and sending low lying land under water. Gilgamesh predates Noah by centuries. The idea that Noah had all animals on his ark is silly. Where would he find polar bears and what would he have fed them?
2 polar bears 2 skunks 2 pigs 2 mosquitos 2 tigers 2 kanguruhs 2 crocodiles the list is endless ...... native Americans been there for more than 10.000 years what about the Australian natives ? lol
@nbenefiel I'd like to state that you make a lot of sense and you to be rational and logical. You should get yourself a TH-cam channel, I would definitely watch and listen. After watching some of this bible based stuff, it seems sense isn't all that common!
Dr. Billy Carson has some theories about this. They might of taken animal DNA, or possibly taken the animals from the immediate area and rest of the animals had to face the flood by themselves. All interesting imo and hopefully God will reveal the complete truth at some point
@@YuckFouTube2 We know the truth. There was no worldwide flood. The ancient Hebrews did not know about DNA. Life on this planet evolved over 5 billion years.
@@YuckFouTube2 Ancient people did not know about DNA. Even today we can not recreate an extinct animal from DNA. There was no worldwide flood. A flood covering the Himalayas would have destroyed all mammals on the planet including humans.It takes a minimum of 500 breeding pairs to prevent a species from going extinct. Whom do you think Noah’s kids and grandkids married? Siblings? First cousins? It’s a myth.It’s based on the epic of Gilgamesh. Back before TV people sat around fires at night, telling stories. The better the story, the longer it lasted. Do you believe Athena emerged full grown from the head of Zeus? These are stories.
❤All sheep black and white are allowed level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy. Tonight at 11 15 eastren. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. Then u decide.
@@ginaibisi777 Curious so I searched. Summary of one article by Livius org: “It seems that Herodotus considers the Pelasgians of his own age as the remains of the older Pelasgians, and although Thucydides seems to accept this, it is just an opinion. We cannot be certain.” Also seems he could’ve simply meant "earlier people.’
Which part of the video I liked the most... probably the beginning when I hear a song from the Witcher game ;) which adds an amazing mood to your presentation. Hi from Poland ;) I don`t blindly believe in everything quoted by one author, probably more than two books, I don`t know his origin, I don`t know what really drives him when creating such comparisons... However, I must admit that since I started reading the bible myself, which is more or less when I was 15-16 years old... I quickly understood that it was a patchwork of many stories from many cultures. The old testament has nothing to do with the new testament, it's completely different heroes and a different, more delicate Yahweh who suddenly becomes the background for the story about his son... And of course Mary "ever virgin" who gives birth to him when she already had a partner... In those days I'm supposed to believe that the wife didn't have any children with her husband or neighbor? Nah, the cult of Mary is for me a clear indication of worshiping another deity under a different name. Let me put it this way... the major religions that rule the world today have been brainwashing us for centuries. We don`t know the actual history of the origin of humanity... I hope that one day it will change, but looking at us from a historical perspective, it isn`t difficult to conclude that human is a slave creature and due to our ability to quickly adapt to adversity... we don`t feel the need to know the truth. The truth that decides why we are here at all. I don't believe in humanity filled with sin. If I were one from many gods, I would have lost my patience with humans long ago and abandoned this failed experiment. We are filled with pride, we are easily bribed with money, those who hold power in their hands will never let people open their eyes that they are living a lie. :) Even when we connect certain dots, we can never be sure of their origin... the truth is buried too deep, you're doing a hard job Sisyphus.
Evet çok doğru söylüyorsun bende kuran okuduğumda farkettim bakire meryem kültünü oradaki insanlar buna inanmak zorunda değildi, doğan bebek olağanüstü haller gösterdimi bilmiyoruz, dünyada her dönem gizli bir el bütün kitapları değiştirdiğini düşünüyorum, her kitap diğerlerini öldürmemiz gerektiğini anlatıyor. Türkiyeden selamlar.
Plato wrote his 4th Century bce Poems Timaeus and Critias after Kritias told of his (Platos) relative Solon , (law giver of the Athenians) being the first Greek to go to Egypt in the 7 Century bce . While there he stayed for some time to learn from some Priests at the Temple if Satet (on Elephantine Island in the Nile, where it splits) , there the history of the Earth was recorded on the walls . Solon was extremely welcomed because he was Athenian , (but not for reasons he assumed ) as he began to tell his known beginning of Athens the Priest Sonchise laughed ! Saying Greeks were like children , so young . He then corrected Solon and his Athens lineage. Then explained the Greatest Civilization was from Athens , the Athens that his Athens was before the World was mostly destroyed by a one of many Great Floods that occur along with Great Fires to restart civilizations . He learned these ancient Athenians were battling these Atlantians whose former Noble Empire became evil and tried to conquer the rest of the world , before disappearing below the Sea in a single day and night during a Great cataclism ! They described its occurrence as 9,000 years before , now 11, 600 years or the end of the YDB ( Now thought to be result of several Comet fragments , either impacting or air bursting , over the 2 mile thick Laurentide Ice Sheets) , ending the Ice Age in about 3 weeks time , while raising Global Oceans 420 that quick !
Interesting that the sole mention of Atlantis came from Plato. There has been no mention of it found in any of the copious Egyptian records. If Atlantis had totally controlled the Mediterranean, you’d think someone other than Plato might have memories of it.
All these texts could have also been accessed in the Babylonian exile as well as the stories of Atlantis could have in fact been taken from The Source that's Solon Plato's ancestor gathered the material originally
There is a reason most of the Old Testament books are originally in Hebrew. Many of them were already written before Greek occupation of Israel/Judah. Now the Mediterranean civilizations, like the Phoenicians, Minoan, etc, were well and strong before any of the Jewish scriptures were written, but Plato didn’t exist yet. So while the New Testament may have borrowed from Greece or Rome, it’s very difficult to argue that the Torah would have borrowed from Plato.
I dont think your video is very inclusive. if you dont pronounce it as "Da Earf" when talking about The Earth, i dont think we can be friends. love you, take care.
I always laugh a bit when academics think they are being real edgy and clever by proclaiming that the Bible is a derivative of older mythologies. One of the few academic historians who wrote about the Bible as a historian with a 2nd temple Jewish understanding (Josephus) talked about the Nephelim and stated that the Greek Titans and other near eastern gods and demigods were in fact the derivatives (not Vice versa) that they were in fact based on this ancient story of sons of god sleeping with the daughters of men referenced in Genesis. If you doubt this Dr Michael Heiser and many others have written academic papers on precisely this. The oldest civilizations came from the Fertile Crescent…is it surprising that these stories predate Mesopotamian myth? Clearly the Bible’s writers were influenced by ancient near eastern stories because Abraham was a near easterner from Ur
Fair point, but in modern India there could have been civilisations even older than the ones in Fertile Crescent - at least following Sacred Sanskrit texts. If Mesopotamia and the fertile crescent was the cradle of civilisation, how do we explain Gobekli Tepe dating around 8000 years before the Sumerians?
I have committed crimes against humanity by pretending to know things I could not possibly know. How? By pretending to know that... 1. an undetectable supernatural realm exists that is inhabited by undetectable, all-powerful, immortal beings, monitoring every human thought and act, justly entitled to micromanage every aspect of human existence. 2. I had a special intimate personal relationship with this supernatural realm that telepathically endowed me with knowledge of unknowable truths, including insight into the mind of the supreme ruler of the supernatural realm, and what it thinks and wants. 3. I had been ordained and commissioned by the supernatural world with the authority, and duty to do everything in my power to police every aspect of human thought and behavior as a representative and surrogate enforcer of the laws and regulations of the supernatural realm. 4. I had been ordained and commissioned by the supernatural world with the authority, and duty to do everything in my power to brainwash children into pretending to know the same unknowable, divisive, and hateful things that I pretended to know. 5. undetectable good supernatural beings had commissioned me with the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict the thoughts, questions, facts, narratives, and realities, children may entertain. 6. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban comprehensive sex education in public schools. 7. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to destroy the self-esteem of children who engage in masturbation, making them think they are sexual perverts. 8. undetectable good supernatural beings had granted me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to deny women and girls access to contraceptives and abortion services, even if doing so destroys their lives. 9. undetectable good supernatural beings had decreed that a fertilized egg, zygote, fetus, or unborn baby is endowed with exclusive ownership of and sovereignty over a woman or adolescent girl's body, even in cases of rape or incest, even if that fetus is unviable, septic, or dead. 10. undetectable good supernatural beings had decreed that men are entitled to subjugate women and treat them as though they are chattel property. 11. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to condemn your sexual thoughts, desires, dreams, and fantasies. 12. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to regulate which adults you may cohabitate with, have sex with, love, and/or marry. 13. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to outlaw sexual conduct that does not conform to the undetectable supernatural realm’s standards of human sexuality. 14. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to destroy the lives of members of the LGBTQ community, including bullying LGBTQ children to the point of driving them to commit suicide. 15. undetectable good supernatural beings had endowed me with the exclusive ethical moral authority, knowledge, and duty to recognize, challenge, and advocate shunning, imprisonment, or execution of anyone who dared to spread a blasphemous criticism of what I was pretending to know. 16. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict the teaching of certain scientific theories in public schools. 17. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict access to certain genres of books, videos, and other educational materials from public schools, public libraries, bookstores, and the internet. 18. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban public school discussions of social justice issues and the suffering experienced by people who are oppressed by people like me. 19. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban the teaching of certain aspects of human history in public schools. 20. the supreme ruler of the supernatural realm was always on my side as I went about the business of visiting hate, discrimination, misfortune, hardship, oppression, suffering, and destruction upon those who resisted my efforts to correct them. 21. being tortured in a lake of fire for eternity is just retribution for failing to pretend to know the correct version, (my version) of unknowable truth. 22. when our ancient ancestors created their holy books, they did not include in them anything that they were pretending to know, things that they could not possibly know. 23. undetectable good supernatural beings had informed me that those suffering, languishing in poverty, ostracized, or oppressed are responsible for, and deserve blame for every hardship they suffer in life. 24. undetectable good supernatural beings had informed me that if you fail to dedicate yourself to a life of servitude to undetectable good supernatural beings, it is only because you have willfully chosen a life of servitude to undetectable evil supernatural beings. Please forgive me.
I appreciate your point that biblical stories are not original nor sui generis,however I would have to disagree with the assertion that these traditions and beliefs stem from Greece. They undoubtedly passed through the Baltic on their way to the Indian subcontinent but they did not arise there. There is an abundance of evidence anthropological, etymological and other fields that suggest that the suite of gods worshipped by the Greeks was brought there by Aryan nomads on their way through. The similarities between the Aesir of the Norse,the Olympians of Greece and Rome and the pantheon of Indian rishis cannot be denied as they have the same names and attributes. An old Father sky god who wields a lightning bolt ( called the vajra by the Hindus). He has a son a wife and a court. Anyway, the suggestion that all this stems from Greece is troublesome when you consider that Plato specifically says he was told this by Solon who learned it while studying in Egypt( which was the vector for lore and knowlege from the east to Greece and Rome much like the Arabs were the vector for the humanities from Rome and Alexandria to medieval Europe.) I don't disparage the Greeks,they brought much to the world but now that we have incontrovertible evidence of semicivilized concentrated societal effort more than 10K years before Plato and humans hunting in the new world even farther back, we can assume that these ideas have been floating around alot farther than a few thousand years.
It's from a video game, The Witcher 3 (made after fantasy novels by the Polish author Andrzej Sapkowski) . You can find the entire soundtrack on youtube. It has hours of great music.
This is so well organized. I think it's helpful to plug all of these texts in together to get a fuller picture of what was going on at the time. When I was in parochial school, Genesis was portrayed as being the most ancient, prehistorical, the literal beginning. When you can collate it with the other myths, the true picture emerges. Once you realize Genesis is the story of a Babylonian hunting garden and the slaves that cheated death when they ate some fruit, it starts to make sense. Thanks again for another slick and concise video that I can point someone to when they have questions.
Where do you get the idea that they cheated death by eating some fruit?? Which gnostic texts says this?? The opposite is actually true, they ate certain fruit and were given to death...
Your videos are amazing! The quality is superb and I love the Witcher 3 OST you use. I can only imagine how many long hours/days you put it into each presentation after all the long days of researching! May I make a humble suggestion? Do you think you might be able to put chapter marks on your videos to make it easier to go click into certain sections to view them again? If not, I understand. Thank you for all you do!
Fascinating information! Definitely interested in hearing more about Dr. Gmirkin’s work. It’s also cool that his last name sounds like a LOTR character! Well done
In Academia it's understood that the 2 to 3 versions of the different tales stem from the different groups that told/wrote them, and why the stories sometimes repeat but often vary in the details.
Well narrated. I enjoyed very much. I have been been thru quite the ride since my quest for truth started..I am at the Annunaki point, seeing where it goes. Very curious about this worship gene. Apparently the Science commuity , currently , has a way to now remove thet gene ..
In the meantime, Justin Sledge (on his Esoterica TH-cam channel) did a video 4 months back entitled "Who is Yahweh - How a Warrior-Storm God became the God of the Israelites and World Monotheism." Might be interested in that. th-cam.com/video/mdKst8zeh-U/w-d-xo.html
It's believed that God spoke to Adam and Eve in such a way as a teacher or parent would speak already knowing the answer. Which makes more sense in my mind than what you put forth. Edit: Also, the name Nod means "wandering" in Hebrew. Cain lived wandering without the light of God. I'm personally very open to interpretation, but unless you speak the original language you should study the texts with translator notes.
I’ve literally spoken in the same way to my own children, so the beginning was a really bad argument for me. “Why would you ask?” … BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO BE HONEST.
Ever since i first learned (at age 16 - 58 yrs ago) - that what we know as The King James version of The Holy Bible was "constructed" with the same sort of political expediency as was the Holy Roman Empire . . . coupled with having taken two previous years of History that had centred on the Phoenicians, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans - i've been fascinated by this stuff. My cousin, Marsha, is an ordained Anglican Priest in Montréal, Que (Canada), and over the years we've had some interesting conversations about the Church's "pragmatism" -as i've seen documentaries such as "When The Moors Ruled Spain," and "Three Faiths, One God." I've taken a course of studies in Comparative Religions, and have read several of the "Holy Books" (The Bible, The Kyballion, The Baghavad Gita, The Qur'an, etc. - and continue to be endlessly fascinated by these histories. Thanks for these documentaries that pique my curiosity.(which continues to drive me - even at this age). Really love them.
Back when dinosaurs walked the planet, I attended a Jesuit University. I read the Bible in Greek and Latin and the 30+ volume Anchor Bible in which two lines of text are followed by 3 pages of footnotes. The King James Version of the Bible is a poor translation of the Latin Vulgate which was a mediocre translation of the original Greek. As an example of 17th century English literature, it is beautiful. As an actual translation of the Bible, it sux.
WE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE MISTERY OF THE UNIVERSE, THATS WHY IT IS CALL THE DEVINE, WE ARE HUMANS, FEW WERE SELECTED LIKE ENOCH, NOAH, MOSES. GOD BLESS AND MAY THE FORCE BE WITH U TO SAVE HUMANITY.
@@Charliebronson19852 strawmaning pointlessly. I said suspicions. I am learning and had suspicions based on what I had learnt so far. This reinforced my suspicions. If you can't read my comment properly, what then of your own skills?
@@mdug7224 lol you obviously don’t know what straw man arguments mean but keep on keeping on I suppose. I read yours just fine, you’re implying that you haven’t heard this argument until this video which is literally impossible if you have even the slightest interest in ancient history and religions.
@MoniqueangeliqueLumpkin Noah? Do you mean the guy based on Utnapishtim? I will break it to you that Exodus never happened. Both Christian and Jewish archaeologists went looking and found zero evidence. Sorry. That's a fact.
@@heidismutti Oh it's you. Come on then. "tHeY lie.. DeReK lIIiEeEeS" But really. I just found some bible quotes, something about aliens and somone who seemed to think the makers of the video actually believed in all these other gods. Not that much anger this time.
@@tomasverner5354 if you can actually GET them to pick up their bibles and look it up. They usually just refuse to read it or say, “but you’re taking it out of context!”
In the Torah by Deuteronamy 32:8 it is written "Bnei Adam" translating literally to "The sons of Adam" (in modern Hebrew the Term for human is "Ben Adam"). For some reason the Christian Bible has it written as "Sons of God's" (maybe to insert the idea of the trinity). One of the dead sea scrolls that they have found on deuteronamy does say "Bnei Elohim" which translates to "sons of gods", most of the dead sea sea scrolls have Deuteronamy 32:8 written in the version of the Torah.
As a child, I asked that question during a jehovah witness Bible study. Geeze did I ever create a stir. Nothing I was told made any sense. I just had to stop asking questions and accept their explanation.
Let’s say the wife can be explained, it’s a sister, we can say that many kids were simply never mentioned because the story focuses on Abel/Cain. I’m more concerned with why Cain would be worried about being killed by other people or put into danger by other people, when cast out. Would his siblings really have set out that far and established entire civilizations away from god? What purpose, when being driven out seems to be condemnation and no one else has been condemned?
This is amazing for me on my path, thanks for your time and effort, appreciated, is it true that plato was initiated in Egypt and in elysian rites. If so, he could have had a vision he turned into myth and legend. Thanks
Very interesting video. I do have some serious doubts about the author's conclusions. I see three problems: language, chronology and using a negative finding to prove something. 1) Language I don't think we have any clue that the original writers of Genesis had exposure to the Greek language. The notion that they would read a Greek book by Berossus, quickly decide "hey this looks like a good creation story for us", then write it out in classical Hebrew (which would be translated back to Greek for the LXX) seems far-fetched. 2) Chronology Genesis 1 seems to come from the "Priestly" source (likely post-exile) while Genesis 2,3 seem to come from the Jahwist source. The author is proposing that the Garden of Eden story in Genesis 2, 3 has origins in a Greek text. But the Jahwist source is said to have originated in first-temple period Judah (even if not finalized until after the exile). What are the odds that something really new and different was introduced in the Jahwist source from a Greek book not available until about 270BC? Also, per Wikipedia, "Berossus' work was not popular during the Hellenistic period." It's hard to picture a time sequence that a scribe of classical Hebrew would find and read Bablyonica and incorporate parts of it into Genesis 2,3 and do it in time for the Old Testament. 3) Proof from a negative finding. The point made was that only the Greek flood story and Hebrew Bible flood story include a moral factor in the cause of the flood. Does that prove the two are related? I think it more likely that the writers of Genesis would add a moralistic view to ANY story they may have adapted.
Doubts are appreciated, but I'm confident Russell Gmirkin has thought all of this through in approaching his position. Maybe I can have him on sometime to respond to criticisms. Thank you again.
@@MythVisionPodcastwe have a book released here in Greece and in Italy by Sotirios Drokalos, it's called "How and Why Christianity Overtook" unfortunately there is no English version of the book but oh boy the info in there is astonishing...
I think "greek" influences are more accurately "persian" influences actually. Plato is the guy who brought the dualism concept to the western world, but in fact, it's a concept that was spreaded by persian's zoroastrism, which had a huge impact on abrahamic philosophy, especially on christianism and islam, maybe less on judaïsm (judaïsm doesn't propose anything such as a struggle between good and evil, a benevolent god vs a malevolent figure, aka Satan, "hell" as christians and muslims consider it doesn't exist in judaism, were it is more a place for the dead as in most of ancient mythologies). Remember who was ruling the near-eastern world from most of the first millenary BCE, at the very era were greeks and hebrews were defining their culture, and precisely during Plato's lifetime? Persia... even Alexander was admiring Persia's cultural refinement, and hebrews were just so glad that Cyprus destroyed Babylon, considering him a messiah. Zoroastrism was the first established monotheist (and it still exists to this day), or more accurately, monolatry (in fact, "monotheism" as the idea that there exists only one good is prety much anachronical with how people saw the world at that time, even the Bible doesn't say strictly that there's only one god and the others are fake, it says that YHWH is the supreme god of Israel and that isrealites should not worship any other than him), it introduced many concept of western philosophy, and hebrews didn't turn strictly monotheits before persians kicked in. It's nothing but classic cultural domination by the ruling civilization : hebrews were influenced by Babylon and Egypt when the two of them were the dominant forces of the area, then Persia destroyed both and became the main cultural influence of the area, then Greece came and destroyed Persia and became the main cultural influence of the area... at each step, hebrews took something from them, processed it with their own culture and beliefs, with judaism and the Bible as the final result.
@@Debiruman1666 Greek thinking and Platon have nothing to do with dualism. Greek thinking recognises "evil" as ignorance. Lack of knowledge. The very word Kakon implies that it's the kakos ion, something that has the wrong orbit. The one who is 100% responsible about Evil is the man himself. That's why it's called Cosmos. Cosmos= Embellishment, order, beauty that's the Greek word for jewelry too cosmema and cosmetics of course... The world is in order.... We need to align our existence to the rest of the Cosmos... The Greeks were seeing the divine in everything I. Nature and the stars. The Egyptians too. The dualism and evil demons etc comes from the East when they started accusing as demons planets like Aphrodite that is also called Eosphorus - Lucifer, that's where the name comes from. It means Lyceum (like Aristotle's schools Lyke means early morning light "fer" from fero (bringing). Eosphorus similar name... bringer of Light, bringer of Divine Beauty (Aphrodite)... Demon from Deo spreading knowledge it means... it got "demonized" later on by some cheeky fellas... In fact; the problems we are facing in the world now is that the West has not understood the Greeks... And the Greeks are under a very weird .... Invisible "occupation". I'm Greek, I'm not a Christian I'm one of the "old school" guardians of da Galaxy 😏
Personally, I think there are some things I would disagree with, and some I would agree with, however; one thing I would like to add is that many seem to forget the influence of ancient Egypt's myths and traditions in both Genesis and Plato's Atlantis, and I believe the story of Plato's Atlantis starts as an account of what Plato's grandfather who learned the story from someone else or himself while traveling in Egypt
The Plato Atlantis story makes more sense coming form the Solon material then Alexandria, Alexandria was too late and the Torah or at the very least Genesis was already complete in its current form the Babylonian exile seems to be around the time that the final touches were put on and of course considering the Babylonian and Assyrian influence it does make sense
@@XDRONIN he mentioned that the Jews had been seen going in and out of the library at Alexandria and he speculated that that is where they got the Plato Solon material which I do not agree with I think it's far more likely that they got it from The Source material where someone got it from the wall inscription I believe it's at Karnak
@@berts558 Oh yes, thank you Well, I think the Jews are simply part and one of many Semitic traditions, not particularly unique, but also inherited rather than just copied I think the Jews simply wrote down the version of the story they were taught for generations. How much were they influenced externally, or altered from whatever "Original" story they inherited, and finally wrote down, when, that's the hard part to establish, but I don't think the Jews copy from Plato or any Greek traditions
Very very interesting, thank you! I'm going to have to watch this again. I don't think the timeline works, but the ideas certainly make sense. Genesis seems to have been written prior to the birth of Plato.
Gmirkin also believes it was written in 250 BCE. Convenient for him, otherwise his argument falls apart. It's a pity this vid doesn't mention that, and offers no points to contradict Gmirkin. It's not a skeptical vid, it goes whole hog behind Gmirkin like its... the word of God.
the Curites and Corybantes were also fallen spirits or angels ...you can read for them in Orphics hymns,and leard about the Corybanta(black Draco)and Curites from the sanctuary of "Great gods"(means the talls) in Samothrace
I literally just pressed play while I look at comments. Seriously I'm irish born and bred in EIRE, and I pissed myself laughing at this comment. Funny as Foooook.
Absolutely amazing video which marries up the timelines which in turn fits everything snugly . The first copies of the Jewish version of the Old Testament was written in approx 200/300 BC . This would indicate that the Jewish elders must've had knowledge and texts from the Hellenistic period . I'm convinced a group of Jewish elders paid a visit to the Hellenic library in Alexandria Egypt . Which at the time was a wealth of information and knowledge , it's all falling into place , this is truly outstanding stuff .
Um… nope. The Torah existed in one form or another throughout ancient Israel’s history. If nothing else, it definitely preceded the reign of Josiah in the 600s BC- since finding the Torah scrolls in the temple helped fuel the significant reforms in his reign. You are probably thinking of the biblical manuscripts in the so-called Dead Sea scroll collection. Those were copies the community at Qumran used. The OT wasn’t written around 200BC, that is simply about how old the scrolls were at Qumran. What you are saying is like saying the Magna Carta was written in 2022 because there was a copy of it in my local library at time- and that the US Constitution influenced it because English politicians would was been familiar with it in 2022.
@@adamkime5205 I'm only a wikipedia user, so take it for what it's worth, but I've been looking into the timeline. Wikipedia states that the first 11 chapters of Genesis is believed by a sizable minority of scholars to have been composed possibly in the 3rd century BC. So these assertions that they have Platonic influences is something to consider.
The word Elohim is used with different meaning depending on the author. When the Elohist uses the word Elohim it means what it meant for millenia before the Old Testament and that is "sons of El". When the Yahwist uses the word Elohim it means gods/goddesses. The sons of Elohim who became the nephilim are sons of gods/goddesses. Most Religious Dogmatics think that Genesis 1 is about God (El) but the word in Genesis 1 was originally Elohim (sons of El) before being censored. Try reading the NOG translation. Uncensored Bible's are tight!
I wish, the Humanities clases back in 1964 would have been as interesting, and beautifully narrated as this one's. Your graphics are of the most excellence. Great documents. Thank you.
Between this line of scholarship and the scholars taking on the new testament with a similar lens, are we witnessing the beginning of a monumental 'paradigm shift'? [god, I hate that phrase, but here it might finally be applicable...]
Fascinating, and somewhat convincing, though problematic I think. There are some really interesting parallels, but the timeline seems difficult to reconcile. The third century BC seems to be when most critical scholars, that I have watched on this channel and elsewhere, place the advent of true monotheism. Yet, as Gmirkin himself apparently points out, the contents of Genesis appear to have been constructed in a thoroughly polytheistic era. That doesn’t seem to fit. And my understanding is that the language in which Genesis is written is an earlier form of Hebrew, not dating to the Hellenistic era, whether in the Priestly or Jahwist source, again posting difficulties for the chronology. I also don’t see why the lack of a direct precedent for the Eden story in Mesopotamian mythology is a problem. The Canaanites and the Mesopotamians are not the same people or culture, so why should the stories of the former necessarily have direct roots in the latter? There was certainly cross-pollination between the two, even more so from the period of the exile onwards. But there is no reason a Canaanite myth should have origins in either Mesopotamia or Greece. If we don’t have older Canaanite myth in the historical record, then it’s just something we will never know (pending further archaeology). Also, it seems clear that at the time, when Plato was writing of Atlantis, he was writing a purely fictional story for allegorical purposes. It was never supposed to be an actual historical account. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible that some Hellenised Greeks could not have read it that way in the following decades, but it seems quite clear it is completely the wrong genre, which might make it a bit strange.
Cain is hunted by angels and daemons. Still today. These different nations and blood lines are not separate races. Nationality is the origin of your geographic heritage, not what you are. Human beings, no matter where they hail from are ALL THE SAME RACE. THE HUMAN RACE. People seriously need to stop confusing race with nationality.
How can this be true, given the time frame of the respective writings? As sources of Genesis, scholars widely agree that J was composed in the late 7th or the 6th century BCE, and P, the 5th century BCE. Plato's writings are from hundreds of years later.
This makes no sense. Moses, the author of Genesis, was born 1571 BC. While Plato was born 428 BC, how could Moses take an idea from a man who was born over 1,000 years after he was?
You make no sense. What's your evidence for your claims that Moses was the author of Genesis or that he was born 1571 BCE? That's unsubstantiated nonsense and not even plausible. 1571 BCE was in the 2nd intermediate period, when the north of Egypt was not ruled by Egyptians, but by Baal worshiping Hyksos pharaos from Canaan. Moses would have lived the same time when Kamose challenged the Hyksos pharao to free the Egyptians and also when his successor Ahmose continued his fight and succeeded, ending up sieging and destroying the Hyksos even in Canaan, reuniting Egypt and founding the New Kingdom. There were no Israelites back then, but only rising Egyptians who defeated the Hyksos in Canaan. Not even the Jews claim that Moses was really the author of the so-called books of Moses. So why would you? The oldest evidence of any text naming Moses was also from later than Plato.
Derek you are awesome man! You are a fantastic interviewer and it is great to see your channel grow so fast! I subbed a few months ago when you were around 70k subs. Great work and I love your videos! Your quality is amazing and just keeps getting better and better.
@@MythVisionPodcast Derek I know this sounds cliche, you are doing such important work, you are holding the ropes against a mighty belief system that has been around for thousands of years causing much bloodshed and division amongst mankind. I have a few projects I am working on that is impacting my finances and I would love to support you in that way, but for now I am liking your vids and recommending your channel to fellow deconstructioners that need your info. Keep up the good work Derek!
Right, I'm a few lectures in now and you've convinced me, I want the book. Although, it's super expensive so I better get saving the pennies, hopefully it'll have a less expensive paperback release in the meantime. 👍
I think the very ancient stories in all religions all relate back to a real event that occurred when we were all one advanced civilization, and the people were spread out and the languages were confused and these were the ways our languages described indescribable events.
Yes, also no, but mostly yes. But that's a subject for another set of discussions not directly related to my dad's work. More where my own intellectual wanderings have taken me. Squarely into the Saturn Myth & planetary catastrophism [in prehistory] camp. I don't subscribe to any "ancient aliens" or "ancient advanced civilizations" stuff though. IMO, simply not evidenced, to my knowledge. Rather the rise of language and ancient civilization arose from or were directly influenced by the witnessed [in prehistory] catastrophic events, which passed down into language, petroglyphs, mythology, religion, religious/mythological iconography, etc. Far more could be said. But, don't want to hijack this topic, so will generally leave it there for now. If interested, you might look up a couple of my playlists on the work of Ev Cochrane & Dave Talbott [The Saturn Myth], et al.
@@MGmirkin,we should talk more about this,,when you say you don't support the advanced ancient civilization,,you might be wrong,we are surrounded by the construction of some advanced civilization,,so why is it so hard for you to believe that humans have been where we are today,and way farther technologically advanced that what we are today,thier stuff still stands?
Mythology means Myo (Μυω) meaning initiating into the Devine Logos. the verb Myo gives us mystic, mystery etc, and literally means keeping my eyes and mouth shut kinda like mediating. Plus Θ that represents the Divine and Logos. Logos have to do with maths, logic and our world from one to many. Look at the shape of the letter Λ. All Greek philosophy is actually based on Mythology... When you analyse for example the names of the Gods and heroes etc. There's a saying in Greece. "The beginning of wisdom starts by visiting the words" Thank you for the videos it's a great help because in Greece we have to fight our own state and... church.... Basically we are trapped 🙃. And it's great to see the truth coming out from across the pond 🏛️🙏
the funny thing about the Mesopotamian(Greek word too and means in the "middle in rivers") Sumerians is that there is only one epic and nothing else in their records, other than ordering barley beers and general shopping from the supermarket we would say today... isn't that a bit strange?lol
As much as I am enjoying this series, I'm a bit skeptical. The fact Bible is rooted in Greek, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, and deep Indo-European traditions is without question. All of these cultures and their religions permeate with similar motifs, structure, and language. The issue I have is that it seems the researcher you're citing wants to focus on the era of the Septuagint's creations(3rd-2rd century BCE) and not the Hebrew Pentateuch which has its origins going as far back as the 6th century BCE. While this doesn't create an issue with culture influences, it does generate a problem with the Plato argument. The language used in Genesis is far more primitive than any Greek source. Even stripped down as the researcher argues, there is a stark difference in the narrative structures of what is known to have Greek influence versus what is considered Hebrew and proto-Hebrew. Secondly, unless this is to be discussed later on in other videos, Second Temple/ Post Exile leadership had a major dislike if not outright hatred of non-Jewish traditions, stories, and lifestyles, particularly the Greeks. These elements can be seen in the narratives of Eden, Cain & Abel, and elsewhere where the 'God of Israel" rejected agricultural and urbanization for pastoral lifestyles and offerings. Greek influence in writing and the arts were inevitable which is why much of the Old Testament after the Pentateuch has a richer language and narrative style. Nonetheless, thanks for this series. Love learning new perspectives. :)
@@fruitylerlups530 It's actually not. Which unit of measurement did you think was used to measure the rate of audio clips? I notice you didn't even attempt to give me your estimation of the "right" word. 😂
Just because stories share similarities, very common tropes at that, does not mean one story is the product of the other. In fact, the similarities are so vague that it’s hard to believe they’re directly related to one another. They may both just have influences in the Mesopotamian world. I think it’s hard to argue that there was no Bronze Age Hebrew civilization. The evidence might not support a historical genesis or exodus, but there is pretty clear evidence of Hebrew religion and culture in the bronze age. Now Iron Age is pushing it, but the evidence for even a developed angelic hierarchy, something you would only expect to see long after a settled fundamental theology, was existent in the bronze age and there is strong evidence.
There was of course no Bronze Age Hebrew civilization, because whatever we could actually call Hebrew could be distinguished from just Canaanitic or Ugaritic only centuries after the Bronze Age, so there's also no such thing as a Hebrew history in the Bronze Age. The oldest known letters in Hebrew ever found were from a primitive calendar of the 10th century bce.
@@reinercelsus8299 do you understand how ridiculous you sound? There is immensely strong evidence of Hebrews settling in Canaan by 1200 BC. To say we can’t distinguish them because they’re in the same land as other Canaanite people is asinine. We can tell whether or not we’re dealing with a Hebrew group just by looking at their currency alone. You say of course like your view is the accepted academic paradigm and it’s not. Your view requires one to ignore an immense amount of evidence including historical Hebrew kings.
@@epicofatrahasis3775 no they were Mesopotamian. They weren’t indigenous to Canaan. They migrated and settled into Canaan late Bronze Age. I don’t think y’all are actually seeing the evidence on this channel. You’re just hearing contrarian views and agreeing with them. We have currency, art, pottery, weaponry, steeles. To argue Hebrews didn’t exist in any organized form until 2nd century BCE is not a very bright position. King Ahab, a historical king of Israel and almost undisputed historical character in academia is dated to 935 BC which is right on the fence of Bronze Age and Iron Age, about 300 years after Bronze Age has ended. You’re telling me that 300 years prior to Ahab there was no distinguishable Hebrew group? Really lol
@@Bravetrain13 I understand how ridiculous you sound. There is not immensely strong evidence of Hebrews settling in Canaan by 1200 BCE, but no evidence at all. That's officially confirmed and supported by literally all qualified archaeologists of today and even by Tel Aviv University in Israel. They can also tell you that Hebrew kings were historical only from Omri and later, while all of the earlier kings are highly questionable and literally all of the patriarchs were invented. So what's even the point of your unsubstantiated and nonsensical claim? There's no evidence of a Hebrew language or scripture earlier than the 10th century BCE, so it's also not possible to identify just anything with Hebrews earlier.
It isn't until I think the first century that the Pillars of Hercules are said to reside at the straits of Gibraltar. Earlier than that, it could have meant metaphorical limits of human knowledge. Or they were placed in other geographical locations. Such as far to the east. Or so I've read. So we can't say with certainty where Plato considered them to be located.
Tacitus apparently assumed later they were located were the Frisians lived, so it was probably not common back then to identify them with the straits of Gibraltar.
In fact, that is unrelevant, what Plato was saying was basically "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...", he was placing setting his story in a far time and place, just as any fairytale do... It's only later than people started to read his sory in the first degree and started trying to search the actual place of Atlantis... like if in 200 years from know, people would start to search for Hogwarth... Plato's account of Atlantis's story is a philosophical tale, it was never meant to be anything more than that, but at some point, there's always someone who thinks that "all stories bear truth"... you know that, actually, the "flat earth" thing was some kind of joke to make fun of Dark Ages people and their superstitions ? Now people are all over the internet trying to prove Earth is flat, and someone even died trying to prove it... that's just how mankind works.
@@Debiruman1666 Not quite that far away. Even if it was a philosophical tale in the first place, his descriptions seem inspired by actual Phoenicians and Minoans before them.
@@Debiruman1666 No it's relevant. In the video, Derek places the Pillars of Hercules at the Straits of Gibraltar. Although where it is located isn't critical to the theme. And WRT Plato's overall intent, you state one hypothesis. The truth is, no one knows whether he considered the Straits of Hercules and Atlantis to be totally fictitious, or have some basis in reality. My guess is that he's retelling myths concerning the Minoans, and why their civilization was destroyed.
@@baarbacoa I think that's already a good guess and explains a lot, yet not everything. Plato claimed the information came from the Egyptians, so we should also think from an Egyptian point of view. The Minoans had already been well known to them in the Old Kingdom, from a time that was already thousands of years away in the time of Plato. The Minoans had been remembered as civilized and advanced sea people which appeared friendly to Egyptians and supplied them with goods. Only centuries after their demise, the Phoenicians appeared and seemed to play just the same role to the Egyptians like the Minoans had before. They were also known for sailing beyond the pillars of Melkart (only later called pillars of Hercules when he was identified with Melkart) and settled in places that would match most of their information about Atlantians that didn't fit the Minoans.
I always thought, ever since I was a kid and read the Bible for the first time, that it didn't make sense. I ask people who are "Holier than thou" did you even READ the Bible??? I say that all religions are man and woman kinds way of trying to figure out who and what God is, and that while everyone has some 'sense' of God, NO ONE has it right...especially anyone who is willing to condemn someone else to hell. There are beautiful parts of the Bible which speak to the goodness in people, but a lot of is about war and hate and incest and against women, and I believe written by man, for man, to control man. The God I believe in, permeates everything in nature and all forms of life on earth and in the unknowable universe and there are no words to describe God or, let's say, the mind of God for lack of the proper word... It is what it is, I am what I am...
One way of looking at it is to think of a pearl, which starts as a grain of sand around which calcium carbonate layers form as an immune response to the irritant until the pearl no longer resembles the speck that started it. Many legends have developed in this way, from the tale of the blind bard Homer onwards.
Price believes that early Christianity was influenced by MiddleEastern myths about dying and rising deities that survived into the Greek and Roman periods. One was a Sumerian legend, ‘The Descent of Inanna’, which tells of the queen of heaven who attends an underworld funeral only to get killed by demons and hung from a hook like a piece of meat. Three days later, however, she’s rescued, rises from the dead, and returns to the land of the living.
The outlaw and thief Robert Hod was fined for failing to appear in court in York in 1225 and a year later he reappeared in the court record, still at large. This could be the grain of sand that begat Robin Hood, whom many people assumed to have been a historical figure whose legend grew over the centuries. Robin started as a forest yeoman but morphed into a nobleman. He was later inserted into 12th-century history with King Richard the Lionheart and Prince John (earlier versions had Edward I), along with his ever-expanding band of outlaws. By the 16th century, he and his Merry Men had mutated from lovable rascals to rebels with a cause who ‘tooke from rich to give the poor’.
The Jesus story likewise developed fresh layers over time. At the start of the common era, there may well have been several iconoclastic Jewish preachers, and one of them got up the noses of the Romans, who killed him. Soon his legend grew. New attributes and views were ascribed to him until, eventually, he became the heroic figure of the Messiah and son of God with his band of 12 not-so-merry men. The original grain of sand is less significant than most assume. The interesting bit is how it grew.
aeon.co/essays/why-the-son-of-god-story-is-built-on-mythology-not-history.
I think we should give Inky-do his own series!
"inky inky-do, ..where are you?, we have some myths to bust now!"😂😂 ohh yeah!
If there was a world wide flood it probably happened at the end of the ice age, around 12,000 years ago. The great herds were dying and people were gathering around the coastlines. When the glaciers melted the sea levels rose about 400 feet, erasing the coasts and sending low lying land under water. Gilgamesh predates Noah by centuries. The idea that Noah had all animals on his ark is silly. Where would he find polar bears and what would he have fed them?
2 polar bears 2 skunks 2 pigs 2 mosquitos 2 tigers 2 kanguruhs 2 crocodiles the list is endless ...... native Americans been there for more than 10.000 years what about the Australian natives ? lol
@nbenefiel I'd like to state that you make a lot of sense and you to be rational and logical. You should get yourself a TH-cam channel, I would definitely watch and listen. After watching some of this bible based stuff, it seems sense isn't all that common!
Dr. Billy Carson has some theories about this. They might of taken animal DNA, or possibly taken the animals from the immediate area and rest of the animals had to face the flood by themselves. All interesting imo and hopefully God will reveal the complete truth at some point
@@YuckFouTube2 We know the truth. There was no worldwide flood. The ancient Hebrews did not know about DNA. Life on this planet evolved over 5 billion years.
@@YuckFouTube2 Ancient people did not know about DNA. Even today we can not recreate an extinct animal from DNA. There was no worldwide flood. A flood covering the Himalayas would have destroyed all mammals on the planet including humans.It takes a minimum of 500 breeding pairs to prevent a species from going extinct. Whom do you think Noah’s kids and grandkids married? Siblings? First cousins? It’s a myth.It’s based on the epic of Gilgamesh. Back before TV people sat around fires at night, telling stories. The better the story, the longer it lasted. Do you believe Athena emerged full grown from the head of Zeus? These are stories.
Lovely documentary. Wish I'd come across it decades ago.
You and me both!
❤All sheep black and white are allowed level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy. Tonight at 11 15 eastren. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. Then u decide.
I always chk the comments before I watch something more than 10 minutes . And comments like yours are so useful . Thank you I love this story! ❤
I appreciate it very much that you are making more and more of such documentary videos. I think you are doing an excellent job. Regards.
Thank you!
Pelasgians
"Barbarians" Illyrians Albanians, the whole myths of the Greeks are the Pelasgians reality.😂😂😂
👍
@@ginaibisi777
Curious so I searched. Summary of one article by Livius org:
“It seems that Herodotus considers the Pelasgians of his own age as the remains of the older Pelasgians, and although Thucydides seems to accept this, it is just an opinion. We cannot be certain.”
Also seems he could’ve simply meant "earlier people.’
@jmc8076 The ones who knew to write in Ancient times are the ones that wrote the history to their own liking, especially the mythological stories 🤣🤣🤣
Q.How would you describe the Bible?
A."Super Greek...Super Greek...Super Greeky..."
*twirls away in Toga with backup singers*😂
Loved the video😎💃
🤣🤣🤣
Which part of the video I liked the most... probably the beginning when I hear a song from the Witcher game ;) which adds an amazing mood to your presentation. Hi from Poland ;)
I don`t blindly believe in everything quoted by one author, probably more than two books, I don`t know his origin, I don`t know what really drives him when creating such comparisons...
However, I must admit that since I started reading the bible myself, which is more or less when I was 15-16 years old... I quickly understood that it was a patchwork of many stories from many cultures. The old testament has nothing to do with the new testament, it's completely different heroes and a different, more delicate Yahweh who suddenly becomes the background for the story about his son... And of course Mary "ever virgin" who gives birth to him when she already had a partner... In those days I'm supposed to believe that the wife didn't have any children with her husband or neighbor? Nah, the cult of Mary is for me a clear indication of worshiping another deity under a different name.
Let me put it this way... the major religions that rule the world today have been brainwashing us for centuries. We don`t know the actual history of the origin of humanity... I hope that one day it will change, but looking at us from a historical perspective, it isn`t difficult to conclude that human is a slave creature and due to our ability to quickly adapt to adversity... we don`t feel the need to know the truth. The truth that decides why we are here at all. I don't believe in humanity filled with sin. If I were one from many gods, I would have lost my patience with humans long ago and abandoned this failed experiment. We are filled with pride, we are easily bribed with money, those who hold power in their hands will never let people open their eyes that they are living a lie. :) Even when we connect certain dots, we can never be sure of their origin... the truth is buried too deep, you're doing a hard job Sisyphus.
Evet çok doğru söylüyorsun bende kuran okuduğumda farkettim bakire meryem kültünü oradaki insanlar buna inanmak zorunda değildi, doğan bebek olağanüstü haller gösterdimi bilmiyoruz, dünyada her dönem gizli bir el bütün kitapları değiştirdiğini düşünüyorum, her kitap diğerlerini öldürmemiz gerektiğini anlatıyor. Türkiyeden selamlar.
Plato wrote his 4th Century bce Poems Timaeus and Critias after Kritias told of his (Platos) relative Solon , (law giver of the Athenians) being the first Greek to go to Egypt in the 7 Century bce . While there he stayed for some time to learn from some Priests at the Temple if Satet (on Elephantine Island in the Nile, where it splits) , there the history of the Earth was recorded on the walls . Solon was extremely welcomed because he was Athenian , (but not for reasons he assumed ) as he began to tell his known beginning of Athens the Priest Sonchise laughed ! Saying Greeks were like children , so young . He then corrected Solon and his Athens lineage. Then explained the Greatest Civilization was from Athens , the Athens that his Athens was before the World was mostly destroyed by a one of many Great Floods that occur along with Great Fires to restart civilizations . He learned these ancient Athenians were battling these Atlantians whose former Noble Empire became evil and tried to conquer the rest of the world , before disappearing below the Sea in a single day and night during a Great cataclism ! They described its occurrence as 9,000 years before , now 11, 600 years or the end of the YDB ( Now thought to be result of several Comet fragments , either impacting or air bursting , over the 2 mile thick Laurentide Ice Sheets) , ending the Ice Age in about 3 weeks time , while raising Global Oceans 420 that quick !
Interesting that the sole mention of Atlantis came from Plato. There has been no mention of it found in any of the copious Egyptian records. If Atlantis had totally controlled the Mediterranean, you’d think someone other than Plato might have memories of it.
"Who told you you were naked? is one of my favorite verses in the Bible.
All these texts could have also been accessed in the Babylonian exile as well as the stories of Atlantis could have in fact been taken from The Source that's Solon Plato's ancestor gathered the material originally
There is a reason most of the Old Testament books are originally in Hebrew. Many of them were already written before Greek occupation of Israel/Judah. Now the Mediterranean civilizations, like the Phoenicians, Minoan, etc, were well and strong before any of the Jewish scriptures were written, but Plato didn’t exist yet. So while the New Testament may have borrowed from Greece or Rome, it’s very difficult to argue that the Torah would have borrowed from Plato.
Have you ever done an episode on just the Elephantine papyri? I think they are the pin that holds all these ideas together in the right sequence.
That will get discussed my friend. I plan on covering this in depth.
I dont think your video is very inclusive. if you dont pronounce it as "Da Earf" when talking about The Earth, i dont think we can be friends. love you, take care.
😂😂😂
Also: must refer to buildings as “biewwdins”. Thanks you.
That was funny, hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
I much prefer these recent documentaries to most of the earlier interviews. Great work!
I always laugh a bit when academics think they are being real edgy and clever by proclaiming that the Bible is a derivative of older mythologies. One of the few academic historians who wrote about the Bible as a historian with a 2nd temple Jewish understanding (Josephus) talked about the Nephelim and stated that the Greek Titans and other near eastern gods and demigods were in fact the derivatives (not Vice versa) that they were in fact based on this ancient story of sons of god sleeping with the daughters of men referenced in Genesis. If you doubt this Dr Michael Heiser and many others have written academic papers on precisely this. The oldest civilizations came from the Fertile Crescent…is it surprising that these stories predate Mesopotamian myth? Clearly the Bible’s writers were influenced by ancient near eastern stories because Abraham was a near easterner from Ur
Fair point, but in modern India there could have been civilisations even older than the ones in Fertile Crescent - at least following Sacred Sanskrit texts.
If Mesopotamia and the fertile crescent was the cradle of civilisation, how do we explain Gobekli Tepe dating around 8000 years before the Sumerians?
I have committed crimes against humanity by pretending to know things I could not possibly know. How? By pretending to know that...
1. an undetectable supernatural realm exists that is inhabited by undetectable, all-powerful, immortal beings, monitoring every human thought and act, justly entitled to micromanage every aspect of human existence.
2. I had a special intimate personal relationship with this supernatural realm that telepathically endowed me with knowledge of unknowable truths, including insight into the mind of the supreme ruler of the supernatural realm, and what it thinks and wants.
3. I had been ordained and commissioned by the supernatural world with the authority, and duty to do everything in my power to police every aspect of human thought and behavior as a representative and surrogate enforcer of the laws and regulations of the supernatural realm.
4. I had been ordained and commissioned by the supernatural world with the authority, and duty to do everything in my power to brainwash children into pretending to know the same unknowable, divisive, and hateful things that I pretended to know.
5. undetectable good supernatural beings had commissioned me with the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict the thoughts, questions, facts, narratives, and realities, children may entertain.
6. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban comprehensive sex education in public schools.
7. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to destroy the self-esteem of children who engage in masturbation, making them think they are sexual perverts.
8. undetectable good supernatural beings had granted me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to deny women and girls access to contraceptives and abortion services, even if doing so destroys their lives.
9. undetectable good supernatural beings had decreed that a fertilized egg, zygote, fetus, or unborn baby is endowed with exclusive ownership of and sovereignty over a woman or adolescent girl's body, even in cases of rape or incest, even if that fetus is unviable, septic, or dead.
10. undetectable good supernatural beings had decreed that men are entitled to subjugate women and treat them as though they are chattel property.
11. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to condemn your sexual thoughts, desires, dreams, and fantasies.
12. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to regulate which adults you may cohabitate with, have sex with, love, and/or marry.
13. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to outlaw sexual conduct that does not conform to the undetectable supernatural realm’s standards of human sexuality.
14. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to destroy the lives of members of the LGBTQ community, including bullying LGBTQ children to the point of driving them to commit suicide.
15. undetectable good supernatural beings had endowed me with the exclusive ethical moral authority, knowledge, and duty to recognize, challenge, and advocate shunning, imprisonment, or execution of anyone who dared to spread a blasphemous criticism of what I was pretending to know.
16. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict the teaching of certain scientific theories in public schools.
17. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive ethical moral authority and duty to do everything in my power to restrict access to certain genres of books, videos, and other educational materials from public schools, public libraries, bookstores, and the internet.
18. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban public school discussions of social justice issues and the suffering experienced by people who are oppressed by people like me.
19. undetectable good supernatural beings had delegated to me the exclusive authority and duty to do everything in my power to ban the teaching of certain aspects of human history in public schools.
20. the supreme ruler of the supernatural realm was always on my side as I went about the business of visiting hate, discrimination, misfortune, hardship, oppression, suffering, and destruction upon those who resisted my efforts to correct them.
21. being tortured in a lake of fire for eternity is just retribution for failing to pretend to know the correct version, (my version) of unknowable truth.
22. when our ancient ancestors created their holy books, they did not include in them anything that they were pretending to know, things that they could not possibly know.
23. undetectable good supernatural beings had informed me that those suffering, languishing in poverty, ostracized, or oppressed are responsible for, and deserve blame for every hardship they suffer in life.
24. undetectable good supernatural beings had informed me that if you fail to dedicate yourself to a life of servitude to undetectable good supernatural beings, it is only because you have willfully chosen a life of servitude to undetectable evil supernatural beings.
Please forgive me.
That was...........great
Are you the original Author of this?
It's very, very good and so relevant.
I would like a copy of it.
Blown away. You have forgiveness, your good heart has made you whole. Go in peace.
This is absolute gold. Bravo!
@@judylandry302 I am the original author. You may copy and use this any way you like. Thank you.
I appreciate your point that biblical stories are not original nor sui generis,however I would have to disagree with the assertion that these traditions and beliefs stem from Greece. They undoubtedly passed through the Baltic on their way to the Indian subcontinent but they did not arise there. There is an abundance of evidence anthropological, etymological and other fields that suggest that the suite of gods worshipped by the Greeks was brought there by Aryan nomads on their way through. The similarities between the Aesir of the Norse,the Olympians of Greece and Rome and the pantheon of Indian rishis cannot be denied as they have the same names and attributes. An old Father sky god who wields a lightning bolt ( called the vajra by the Hindus). He has a son a wife and a court. Anyway, the suggestion that all this stems from Greece is troublesome when you consider that Plato specifically says he was told this by Solon who learned it while studying in Egypt( which was the vector for lore and knowlege from the east to Greece and Rome much like the Arabs were the vector for the humanities from Rome and Alexandria to medieval Europe.) I don't disparage the Greeks,they brought much to the world but now that we have incontrovertible evidence of semicivilized concentrated societal effort more than 10K years before Plato and humans hunting in the new world even farther back, we can assume that these ideas have been floating around alot farther than a few thousand years.
It’s almost like all these stories are a shared part of the human experience and have a root source common to ALL of us.
The opening theme music is lovely!
Thank you ❤
It's from a video game, The Witcher 3 (made after fantasy novels by the Polish author Andrzej Sapkowski) . You can find the entire soundtrack on youtube. It has hours of great music.
This is so well organized. I think it's helpful to plug all of these texts in together to get a fuller picture of what was going on at the time. When I was in parochial school, Genesis was portrayed as being the most ancient, prehistorical, the literal beginning. When you can collate it with the other myths, the true picture emerges. Once you realize Genesis is the story of a Babylonian hunting garden and the slaves that cheated death when they ate some fruit, it starts to make sense. Thanks again for another slick and concise video that I can point someone to when they have questions.
Thank you for that compliment ☺️! I'm glad it was clear and concise!
Am I going to be the only insufferable prick to complain about the sound edit? I guess so, but it's with a good intention.
How were they slaves who ate some fruit? When they them selves said the garden of eden was paradise. That doesn't seem like slavery to me.
Where do you get the idea that they cheated death by eating some fruit?? Which gnostic texts says this?? The opposite is actually true, they ate certain fruit and were given to death...
@@chey7773 god told them they would die if they ate it. He did not smite them, merely booted them out. This is not Gnostic texts, this is Genesis.
Your videos are amazing! The quality is superb and I love the Witcher 3 OST you use. I can only imagine how many long hours/days you put it into each presentation after all the long days of researching!
May I make a humble suggestion? Do you think you might be able to put chapter marks on your videos to make it easier to go click into certain sections to view them again? If not, I understand. Thank you for all you do!
Fascinating information! Definitely interested in hearing more about Dr. Gmirkin’s work. It’s also cool that his last name sounds like a LOTR character!
Well done
The new theory simplified what cannot be possibly understood by normal reading of the early scriptures. It's perfectly logical😊
In Academia it's understood that the 2 to 3 versions of the different tales stem from the different groups that told/wrote them, and why the stories sometimes repeat but often vary in the details.
Love the witcher 3 music in the background!!
Thank you, I love it as well.
This looks to be epic!
Well narrated. I enjoyed very much. I have been been thru quite the ride since my quest for truth started..I am at the Annunaki point, seeing where it goes. Very curious about this worship gene. Apparently the Science commuity , currently , has a way to now remove thet gene ..
Thank you, I would love to learn more about the origins of Yahweh
I plan on covering that as far as possible in the future.
In the meantime, Justin Sledge (on his Esoterica TH-cam channel) did a video 4 months back entitled "Who is Yahweh - How a Warrior-Storm God became the God of the Israelites and World Monotheism." Might be interested in that.
th-cam.com/video/mdKst8zeh-U/w-d-xo.html
@@britaom3299 I’m a big fan of Esoterica, and that video is awesome.
@@MythVisionPodcastas far as possible? 😅 Yahweh hacked your account or..? 😂
Very interesting and composed. Thanks!!! So much information.
Thank you very much
It's believed that God spoke to Adam and Eve in such a way as a teacher or parent would speak already knowing the answer. Which makes more sense in my mind than what you put forth.
Edit: Also, the name Nod means "wandering" in Hebrew. Cain lived wandering without the light of God. I'm personally very open to interpretation, but unless you speak the original language you should study the texts with translator notes.
Well put!!!
I’ve literally spoken in the same way to my own children, so the beginning was a really bad argument for me.
“Why would you ask?”
… BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO BE HONEST.
Ever since i first learned (at age 16 - 58 yrs ago) - that what we know as The King James version of The Holy Bible was "constructed" with the same sort of political expediency as was the Holy Roman Empire . . . coupled with having taken two previous years of History that had centred on the Phoenicians, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans - i've been fascinated by this stuff.
My cousin, Marsha, is an ordained Anglican Priest in Montréal, Que (Canada), and over the years we've had some interesting conversations about the Church's "pragmatism" -as i've seen documentaries such as "When The Moors Ruled Spain," and "Three Faiths, One God." I've taken a course of studies in Comparative Religions, and have read several of the "Holy Books" (The Bible, The Kyballion, The Baghavad Gita, The Qur'an, etc. - and continue to be endlessly fascinated by these histories.
Thanks for these documentaries that pique my curiosity.(which continues to drive me - even at this age). Really love them.
Back when dinosaurs walked the planet, I attended a Jesuit University. I read the Bible in Greek and Latin and the 30+ volume Anchor Bible in which two lines of text are followed by 3 pages of footnotes. The King James Version of the Bible is a poor translation of the Latin Vulgate which was a mediocre translation of the original Greek. As an example of 17th century English literature, it is beautiful. As an actual translation of the Bible, it sux.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos
Thank you for your kind words.
Fabulous content! (And, my suspicions regarding the connection between Greek mythology and Genesis are not so wild after all!)
WE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE MISTERY OF THE UNIVERSE, THATS WHY IT IS CALL THE DEVINE, WE ARE HUMANS, FEW WERE SELECTED LIKE ENOCH, NOAH, MOSES. GOD BLESS AND MAY THE FORCE BE WITH U TO SAVE HUMANITY.
lol sure, your predictions. These connections have been made long before you were alive. Trust me, they aren’t your predictions.
@@Charliebronson19852 strawmaning pointlessly. I said suspicions. I am learning and had suspicions based on what I had learnt so far. This reinforced my suspicions. If you can't read my comment properly, what then of your own skills?
@@mdug7224 lol you obviously don’t know what straw man arguments mean but keep on keeping on I suppose. I read yours just fine, you’re implying that you haven’t heard this argument until this video which is literally impossible if you have even the slightest interest in ancient history and religions.
@MoniqueangeliqueLumpkin Noah? Do you mean the guy based on Utnapishtim? I will break it to you that Exodus never happened. Both Christian and Jewish archaeologists went looking and found zero evidence. Sorry. That's a fact.
These kinda videos are really good, absolutely fascinating. Well done Derek, many thanks.
Dr. Amar Annus would be a awesome guest to be interview about the Nephilim!
I liked it for its integration of mythical stories.
Thanks
How long until the angry bible worshiper comments show up?
tadaaaah! Already here.
@@heidismutti Oh it's you. Come on then. "tHeY lie.. DeReK lIIiEeEeS"
But really. I just found some bible quotes, something about aliens and somone who seemed to think the makers of the video actually believed in all these other gods. Not that much anger this time.
@@tomasverner5354 if you can actually GET them to pick up their bibles and look it up. They usually just refuse to read it or say, “but you’re taking it out of context!”
Excellent work Derek
Thank you very much!
In the Torah by Deuteronamy 32:8 it is written "Bnei Adam" translating literally to "The sons of Adam" (in modern Hebrew the Term for human is "Ben Adam").
For some reason the Christian Bible has it written as "Sons of God's" (maybe to insert the idea of the trinity). One of the dead sea scrolls that they have found on deuteronamy does say "Bnei Elohim" which translates to "sons of gods", most of the dead sea sea scrolls have Deuteronamy 32:8 written in the version of the Torah.
I love the spirit here
I’m vibin with it, but every now and then the editing catches me off guard and I almost spit out my drink and die laughing 😂
Another great video put together.
Thank you very much!
That’s the thing that wrecked my brain about where did he find his wife?
As a child, I asked that question during a jehovah witness Bible study. Geeze did I ever create a stir. Nothing I was told made any sense. I just had to stop asking questions and accept their explanation.
Let’s say the wife can be explained, it’s a sister, we can say that many kids were simply never mentioned because the story focuses on Abel/Cain.
I’m more concerned with why Cain would be worried about being killed by other people or put into danger by other people, when cast out. Would his siblings really have set out that far and established entire civilizations away from god? What purpose, when being driven out seems to be condemnation and no one else has been condemned?
I am a Hindu and I am learning Christianity from your channel
Excellent work yet again!
Thank you very much 😊
Your thumbnails are looking great! I look forward to new videos just to see them.
Thank you so much!
Very good information, I just found this channel and it’s good,keep up the good work guys.
This is amazing for me on my path, thanks for your time and effort, appreciated, is it true that plato was initiated in Egypt and in elysian rites. If so, he could have had a vision he turned into myth and legend. Thanks
Very interesting video. I do have some serious doubts about the author's conclusions. I see three problems: language, chronology and using a negative finding to prove something.
1) Language
I don't think we have any clue that the original writers of Genesis had exposure to the Greek language. The notion that they would read a Greek book by Berossus, quickly decide "hey this looks like a good creation story for us", then write it out in classical Hebrew (which would be translated back to Greek for the LXX) seems far-fetched.
2) Chronology
Genesis 1 seems to come from the "Priestly" source (likely post-exile) while Genesis 2,3 seem to come from the Jahwist source. The author is proposing that the Garden of Eden story in Genesis 2, 3 has origins in a Greek text. But the Jahwist source is said to have originated in first-temple period Judah (even if not finalized until after the exile). What are the odds that something really new and different was introduced in the Jahwist source from a Greek book not available until about 270BC? Also, per Wikipedia, "Berossus' work was not popular during the Hellenistic period." It's hard to picture a time sequence that a scribe of classical Hebrew would find and read Bablyonica and incorporate parts of it into Genesis 2,3 and do it in time for the Old Testament.
3) Proof from a negative finding. The point made was that only the Greek flood story and Hebrew Bible flood story include a moral factor in the cause of the flood. Does that prove the two are related? I think it more likely that the writers of Genesis would add a moralistic view to ANY story they may have adapted.
Doubts are appreciated, but I'm confident Russell Gmirkin has thought all of this through in approaching his position. Maybe I can have him on sometime to respond to criticisms.
Thank you again.
@@MythVisionPodcast Yes, I look forward to that!
@@MythVisionPodcastwe have a book released here in Greece and in Italy by Sotirios Drokalos, it's called "How and Why Christianity Overtook" unfortunately there is no English version of the book but oh boy the info in there is astonishing...
I think "greek" influences are more accurately "persian" influences actually.
Plato is the guy who brought the dualism concept to the western world, but in fact, it's a concept that was spreaded by persian's zoroastrism, which had a huge impact on abrahamic philosophy, especially on christianism and islam, maybe less on judaïsm (judaïsm doesn't propose anything such as a struggle between good and evil, a benevolent god vs a malevolent figure, aka Satan, "hell" as christians and muslims consider it doesn't exist in judaism, were it is more a place for the dead as in most of ancient mythologies).
Remember who was ruling the near-eastern world from most of the first millenary BCE, at the very era were greeks and hebrews were defining their culture, and precisely during Plato's lifetime? Persia... even Alexander was admiring Persia's cultural refinement, and hebrews were just so glad that Cyprus destroyed Babylon, considering him a messiah.
Zoroastrism was the first established monotheist (and it still exists to this day), or more accurately, monolatry (in fact, "monotheism" as the idea that there exists only one good is prety much anachronical with how people saw the world at that time, even the Bible doesn't say strictly that there's only one god and the others are fake, it says that YHWH is the supreme god of Israel and that isrealites should not worship any other than him), it introduced many concept of western philosophy, and hebrews didn't turn strictly monotheits before persians kicked in.
It's nothing but classic cultural domination by the ruling civilization : hebrews were influenced by Babylon and Egypt when the two of them were the dominant forces of the area, then Persia destroyed both and became the main cultural influence of the area, then Greece came and destroyed Persia and became the main cultural influence of the area... at each step, hebrews took something from them, processed it with their own culture and beliefs, with judaism and the Bible as the final result.
@@Debiruman1666 Greek thinking and Platon have nothing to do with dualism. Greek thinking recognises "evil" as ignorance. Lack of knowledge. The very word Kakon implies that it's the kakos ion, something that has the wrong orbit. The one who is 100% responsible about Evil is the man himself. That's why it's called Cosmos. Cosmos= Embellishment, order, beauty that's the Greek word for jewelry too cosmema and cosmetics of course... The world is in order.... We need to align our existence to the rest of the Cosmos... The Greeks were seeing the divine in everything I. Nature and the stars. The Egyptians too. The dualism and evil demons etc comes from the East when they started accusing as demons planets like Aphrodite that is also called Eosphorus - Lucifer, that's where the name comes from. It means Lyceum (like Aristotle's schools Lyke means early morning light "fer" from fero (bringing). Eosphorus similar name... bringer of Light, bringer of Divine Beauty (Aphrodite)... Demon from Deo spreading knowledge it means... it got "demonized" later on by some cheeky fellas... In fact; the problems we are facing in the world now is that the West has not understood the Greeks... And the Greeks are under a very weird .... Invisible "occupation". I'm Greek, I'm not a Christian I'm one of the "old school" guardians of da Galaxy 😏
Personally, I think there are some things I would disagree with, and some I would agree with, however; one thing I would like to add is that many seem to forget the influence of ancient Egypt's myths and traditions in both Genesis and Plato's Atlantis, and I believe the story of Plato's Atlantis starts as an account of what Plato's grandfather who learned the story from someone else or himself while traveling in Egypt
The Plato Atlantis story makes more sense coming form the Solon material then Alexandria, Alexandria was too late and the Torah or at the very least Genesis was already complete in its current form the Babylonian exile seems to be around the time that the final touches were put on and of course considering the Babylonian and Assyrian influence it does make sense
@@berts558
Sorry, perhaps I miss that part in the video, where does he mention Alexandria, Egypt?
I don't seem able to find it
@@XDRONIN he mentioned that the Jews had been seen going in and out of the library at Alexandria and he speculated that that is where they got the Plato Solon material which I do not agree with I think it's far more likely that they got it from The Source material where someone got it from the wall inscription I believe it's at Karnak
@@berts558
Oh yes, thank you
Well, I think the Jews are simply part and one of many Semitic traditions, not particularly unique, but also inherited rather than just copied
I think the Jews simply wrote down the version of the story they were taught for generations. How much were they influenced externally, or altered from whatever "Original" story they inherited, and finally wrote down, when, that's the hard part to establish, but I don't think the Jews copy from Plato or any Greek traditions
@@XDRONINthey do not copy from them, they both share inheritance from the Vedas, from different perspectives.
Very very interesting, thank you! I'm going to have to watch this again. I don't think the timeline works, but the ideas certainly make sense. Genesis seems to have been written prior to the birth of Plato.
Gmirkin also believes it was written in 250 BCE. Convenient for him, otherwise his argument falls apart. It's a pity this vid doesn't mention that, and offers no points to contradict Gmirkin. It's not a skeptical vid, it goes whole hog behind Gmirkin like its... the word of God.
the Curites and Corybantes were also fallen spirits or angels ...you can read for them in Orphics hymns,and leard about the Corybanta(black Draco)and Curites from the sanctuary of "Great gods"(means the talls) in Samothrace
"Yahweh was just desert hiker with a growling stomach" 😂😅😂 That was it for me😂
This is quite an intriguing interpretation of the events🤔
I literally just pressed play while I look at comments. Seriously I'm irish born and bred in EIRE, and I pissed myself laughing at this comment. Funny as Foooook.
🐲
Good Acting Voiceovers💯👍
Good show Derek
Thank you for noticing my friend.
Absolutely amazing video which marries up the timelines which in turn fits everything snugly .
The first copies of the Jewish version of the Old Testament was written in approx 200/300 BC .
This would indicate that the Jewish elders must've had knowledge and texts from the Hellenistic period .
I'm convinced a group of Jewish elders paid a visit to the Hellenic library in Alexandria Egypt .
Which at the time was a wealth of information and knowledge , it's all falling into place , this is truly outstanding stuff .
Um… nope. The Torah existed in one form or another throughout ancient Israel’s history. If nothing else, it definitely preceded the reign of Josiah in the 600s BC- since finding the Torah scrolls in the temple helped fuel the significant reforms in his reign.
You are probably thinking of the biblical manuscripts in the so-called Dead Sea scroll collection. Those were copies the community at Qumran used. The OT wasn’t written around 200BC, that is simply about how old the scrolls were at Qumran. What you are saying is like saying the Magna Carta was written in 2022 because there was a copy of it in my local library at time- and that the US Constitution influenced it because English politicians would was been familiar with it in 2022.
I think all highly educated people studied Greek, and therefore Greek literature.
@@adamkime5205 I'm only a wikipedia user, so take it for what it's worth, but I've been looking into the timeline. Wikipedia states that the first 11 chapters of Genesis is believed by a sizable minority of scholars to have been composed possibly in the 3rd century BC. So these assertions that they have Platonic influences is something to consider.
Deuteronomy 18:15-22. Isaiah 1:18. Jeremiah 33:3. Hebreo 4:12.
Amazing!
Thank you so much
Aaaahhh "silver for monsters" at 9:25! I love it!!!
The word Elohim is used with different meaning depending on the author.
When the Elohist uses the word Elohim it means what it meant for millenia before the Old Testament and that is "sons of El".
When the Yahwist uses the word Elohim it means gods/goddesses. The sons of Elohim who became the nephilim are sons of gods/goddesses.
Most Religious Dogmatics think that Genesis 1 is about God (El) but the word in Genesis 1 was originally Elohim (sons of El) before being censored.
Try reading the NOG translation. Uncensored Bible's are tight!
nice your research!but in 38:00 its good to don't forget the war, between Atlanteans and Greeks...or the war Poseidon with Athena..
Great video! A lot of thoughtful points
I wish, the Humanities clases back in 1964 would have been as interesting, and beautifully narrated as this one's. Your graphics are of the most excellence. Great documents. Thank you.
Between this line of scholarship and the scholars taking on the new testament with a similar lens, are we witnessing the beginning of a monumental 'paradigm shift'? [god, I hate that phrase, but here it might finally be applicable...]
Fascinating, and somewhat convincing, though problematic I think. There are some really interesting parallels, but the timeline seems difficult to reconcile. The third century BC seems to be when most critical scholars, that I have watched on this channel and elsewhere, place the advent of true monotheism. Yet, as Gmirkin himself apparently points out, the contents of Genesis appear to have been constructed in a thoroughly polytheistic era. That doesn’t seem to fit. And my understanding is that the language in which Genesis is written is an earlier form of Hebrew, not dating to the Hellenistic era, whether in the Priestly or Jahwist source, again posting difficulties for the chronology.
I also don’t see why the lack of a direct precedent for the Eden story in Mesopotamian mythology is a problem. The Canaanites and the Mesopotamians are not the same people or culture, so why should the stories of the former necessarily have direct roots in the latter? There was certainly cross-pollination between the two, even more so from the period of the exile onwards. But there is no reason a Canaanite myth should have origins in either Mesopotamia or Greece. If we don’t have older Canaanite myth in the historical record, then it’s just something we will never know (pending further archaeology). Also, it seems clear that at the time, when Plato was writing of Atlantis, he was writing a purely fictional story for allegorical purposes. It was never supposed to be an actual historical account. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible that some Hellenised Greeks could not have read it that way in the following decades, but it seems quite clear it is completely the wrong genre, which might make it a bit strange.
Cain is hunted by angels and daemons. Still today.
These different nations and blood lines are not separate races.
Nationality is the origin of your geographic heritage, not what you are.
Human beings, no matter where they hail from are ALL THE SAME RACE. THE HUMAN RACE.
People seriously need to stop confusing race with nationality.
Derek, this is fantastic. Thanks a million!!!
Thank you a million more my friend.
How can this be true, given the time frame of the respective writings? As sources of Genesis, scholars widely agree that J was composed in the late 7th or the 6th century BCE, and P, the 5th century BCE. Plato's writings are from hundreds of years later.
I have to say this video is quite informative material here. That is for certain!
Thank you very much my friend.
I was a little late to view this, but I'm glad i didnt let it go by without watching.
This makes no sense. Moses, the author of Genesis, was born 1571 BC. While Plato was born 428 BC, how could Moses take an idea from a man who was born over 1,000 years after he was?
You make no sense. What's your evidence for your claims that Moses was the author of Genesis or that he was born 1571 BCE? That's unsubstantiated nonsense and not even plausible.
1571 BCE was in the 2nd intermediate period, when the north of Egypt was not ruled by Egyptians, but by Baal worshiping Hyksos pharaos from Canaan. Moses would have lived the same time when Kamose challenged the Hyksos pharao to free the Egyptians and also when his successor Ahmose continued his fight and succeeded, ending up sieging and destroying the Hyksos even in Canaan, reuniting Egypt and founding the New Kingdom. There were no Israelites back then, but only rising Egyptians who defeated the Hyksos in Canaan. Not even the Jews claim that Moses was really the author of the so-called books of Moses. So why would you? The oldest evidence of any text naming Moses was also from later than Plato.
Old Greece. It's young compared to the kingdoms you referring to, which was further east. Gilbamesh was not from Greece.
Where ist thou
@@jojijohn7121 In fairytale land obviously. Watching this.
Awesome
Yes, yes, yes, Gmirkin!!!
😜😜😜
Derek you are awesome man! You are a fantastic interviewer and it is great to see your channel grow so fast! I subbed a few months ago when you were around 70k subs. Great work and I love your videos! Your quality is amazing and just keeps getting better and better.
Seriously I appreciate amazing people like who comment such positivity.
@@MythVisionPodcast Derek I know this sounds cliche, you are doing such important work, you are holding the ropes against a mighty belief system that has been around for thousands of years causing much bloodshed and division amongst mankind. I have a few projects I am working on that is impacting my finances and I would love to support you in that way, but for now I am liking your vids and recommending your channel to fellow deconstructioners that need your info. Keep up the good work Derek!
That intro is haunting bro'!
The Jonathan Kleck channel has solved this riddle of age's.
Right, I'm a few lectures in now and you've convinced me, I want the book. Although, it's super expensive so I better get saving the pennies, hopefully it'll have a less expensive paperback release in the meantime. 👍
Only 2:28 minutes into the video and already I know I was clickbait. Why does everyone think they are a Theologian
Enjoyed!
Thank you!
Banger video Derek!
Yes, the Witcher 3 has the best music of any video game ever.
I was told that Cain sleeping with his sister was permissible because that was pre-Torah. I don't know anything anymore.
I think the very ancient stories in all religions all relate back to a real event that occurred when we were all one advanced civilization, and the people were spread out and the languages were confused and these were the ways our languages described indescribable events.
Yes, also no, but mostly yes.
But that's a subject for another set of discussions not directly related to my dad's work. More where my own intellectual wanderings have taken me. Squarely into the Saturn Myth & planetary catastrophism [in prehistory] camp. I don't subscribe to any "ancient aliens" or "ancient advanced civilizations" stuff though. IMO, simply not evidenced, to my knowledge. Rather the rise of language and ancient civilization arose from or were directly influenced by the witnessed [in prehistory] catastrophic events, which passed down into language, petroglyphs, mythology, religion, religious/mythological iconography, etc.
Far more could be said. But, don't want to hijack this topic, so will generally leave it there for now. If interested, you might look up a couple of my playlists on the work of Ev Cochrane & Dave Talbott [The Saturn Myth], et al.
I'm right there with you,,it's a historical account of all the things that happened before us. Not hard to believe that they would leave us a book.
@@MGmirkin,we should talk more about this,,when you say you don't support the advanced ancient civilization,,you might be wrong,we are surrounded by the construction of some advanced civilization,,so why is it so hard for you to believe that humans have been where we are today,and way farther technologically advanced that what we are today,thier stuff still stands?
Sons of the ELOHIM!
Mythology, nothing more, nothing less
Mythology means Myo (Μυω) meaning initiating into the Devine Logos. the verb Myo gives us mystic, mystery etc, and literally means keeping my eyes and mouth shut kinda like mediating. Plus Θ that represents the Divine and Logos. Logos have to do with maths, logic and our world from one to many. Look at the shape of the letter Λ. All Greek philosophy is actually based on Mythology... When you analyse for example the names of the Gods and heroes etc. There's a saying in Greece. "The beginning of wisdom starts by visiting the words"
Thank you for the videos it's a great help because in Greece we have to fight our own state and... church.... Basically we are trapped 🙃.
And it's great to see the truth coming out from across the pond 🏛️🙏
All mythology stems from some kind of truth it's only different explanations and interpretations of it.
@@Dana_Lynn there are paralels between the Gilgamesh epic and the bible narrative. However, the relationship between the two texts remain unclear.
Thank you ,I really appreciate your videos.
the funny thing about the Mesopotamian(Greek word too and means in the "middle in rivers") Sumerians is that there is only one epic and nothing else in their records, other than ordering barley beers and general shopping from the supermarket we would say today... isn't that a bit strange?lol
As much as I am enjoying this series, I'm a bit skeptical. The fact Bible is rooted in Greek, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, and deep Indo-European traditions is without question. All of these cultures and their religions permeate with similar motifs, structure, and language. The issue I have is that it seems the researcher you're citing wants to focus on the era of the Septuagint's creations(3rd-2rd century BCE) and not the Hebrew Pentateuch which has its origins going as far back as the 6th century BCE. While this doesn't create an issue with culture influences, it does generate a problem with the Plato argument. The language used in Genesis is far more primitive than any Greek source. Even stripped down as the researcher argues, there is a stark difference in the narrative structures of what is known to have Greek influence versus what is considered Hebrew and proto-Hebrew.
Secondly, unless this is to be discussed later on in other videos, Second Temple/ Post Exile leadership had a major dislike if not outright hatred of non-Jewish traditions, stories, and lifestyles, particularly the Greeks. These elements can be seen in the narratives of Eden, Cain & Abel, and elsewhere where the 'God of Israel" rejected agricultural and urbanization for pastoral lifestyles and offerings. Greek influence in writing and the arts were inevitable which is why much of the Old Testament after the Pentateuch has a richer language and narrative style.
Nonetheless, thanks for this series. Love learning new perspectives. :)
Thanks for the comment. I hope to dive deep into all areas related to the Bible and address these issues at some point down the road.
Very informative keep up the great work all Love. New Atlantis Rising 🔱🌠👽💎🌠
7:17 that’s not what the text says.
Enlil and Enki
“Sexually Fructifying the land” Admittedly, I had to look that up.
I always knew God would sound like Derek slowed down by 20 bpm.
bpm is the wrong word
@@fruitylerlups530 It's actually not. Which unit of measurement did you think was used to measure the rate of audio clips? I notice you didn't even attempt to give me your estimation of the "right" word. 😂
@@fruitylerlups530 would you like me to upload a vid to my channel with my voice taken down 20bpms? Care to take a guess what it would sound like?
Thanks 💐💐💐
This video should debate Jonathan Kleck
Just because stories share similarities, very common tropes at that, does not mean one story is the product of the other. In fact, the similarities are so vague that it’s hard to believe they’re directly related to one another. They may both just have influences in the Mesopotamian world. I think it’s hard to argue that there was no Bronze Age Hebrew civilization. The evidence might not support a historical genesis or exodus, but there is pretty clear evidence of Hebrew religion and culture in the bronze age. Now Iron Age is pushing it, but the evidence for even a developed angelic hierarchy, something you would only expect to see long after a settled fundamental theology, was existent in the bronze age and there is strong evidence.
There was of course no Bronze Age Hebrew civilization, because whatever we could actually call Hebrew could be distinguished from just Canaanitic or Ugaritic only centuries after the Bronze Age, so there's also no such thing as a Hebrew history in the Bronze Age. The oldest known letters in Hebrew ever found were from a primitive calendar of the 10th century bce.
The ancient Israelites were indigenous Canaanites or a mix thereof.
@@reinercelsus8299 do you understand how ridiculous you sound? There is immensely strong evidence of Hebrews settling in Canaan by 1200 BC. To say we can’t distinguish them because they’re in the same land as other Canaanite people is asinine. We can tell whether or not we’re dealing with a Hebrew group just by looking at their currency alone. You say of course like your view is the accepted academic paradigm and it’s not. Your view requires one to ignore an immense amount of evidence including historical Hebrew kings.
@@epicofatrahasis3775 no they were Mesopotamian. They weren’t indigenous to Canaan. They migrated and settled into Canaan late Bronze Age. I don’t think y’all are actually seeing the evidence on this channel. You’re just hearing contrarian views and agreeing with them. We have currency, art, pottery, weaponry, steeles. To argue Hebrews didn’t exist in any organized form until 2nd century BCE is not a very bright position. King Ahab, a historical king of Israel and almost undisputed historical character in academia is dated to 935 BC which is right on the fence of Bronze Age and Iron Age, about 300 years after Bronze Age has ended. You’re telling me that 300 years prior to Ahab there was no distinguishable Hebrew group? Really lol
@@Bravetrain13 I understand how ridiculous you sound. There is not immensely strong evidence of Hebrews settling in Canaan by 1200 BCE, but no evidence at all. That's officially confirmed and supported by literally all qualified archaeologists of today and even by Tel Aviv University in Israel. They can also tell you that Hebrew kings were historical only from Omri and later, while all of the earlier kings are highly questionable and literally all of the patriarchs were invented. So what's even the point of your unsubstantiated and nonsensical claim? There's no evidence of a Hebrew language or scripture earlier than the 10th century BCE, so it's also not possible to identify just anything with Hebrews earlier.
Wow, Berossus the kingpin!
It isn't until I think the first century that the Pillars of Hercules are said to reside at the straits of Gibraltar. Earlier than that, it could have meant metaphorical limits of human knowledge. Or they were placed in other geographical locations. Such as far to the east. Or so I've read. So we can't say with certainty where Plato considered them to be located.
Tacitus apparently assumed later they were located were the Frisians lived, so it was probably not common back then to identify them with the straits of Gibraltar.
In fact, that is unrelevant, what Plato was saying was basically "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...", he was placing setting his story in a far time and place, just as any fairytale do...
It's only later than people started to read his sory in the first degree and started trying to search the actual place of Atlantis... like if in 200 years from know, people would start to search for Hogwarth...
Plato's account of Atlantis's story is a philosophical tale, it was never meant to be anything more than that, but at some point, there's always someone who thinks that "all stories bear truth"... you know that, actually, the "flat earth" thing was some kind of joke to make fun of Dark Ages people and their superstitions ?
Now people are all over the internet trying to prove Earth is flat, and someone even died trying to prove it... that's just how mankind works.
@@Debiruman1666 Not quite that far away. Even if it was a philosophical tale in the first place, his descriptions seem inspired by actual Phoenicians and Minoans before them.
@@Debiruman1666 No it's relevant. In the video, Derek places the Pillars of Hercules at the Straits of Gibraltar. Although where it is located isn't critical to the theme.
And WRT Plato's overall intent, you state one hypothesis. The truth is, no one knows whether he considered the Straits of Hercules and Atlantis to be totally fictitious, or have some basis in reality. My guess is that he's retelling myths concerning the Minoans, and why their civilization was destroyed.
@@baarbacoa I think that's already a good guess and explains a lot, yet not everything. Plato claimed the information came from the Egyptians, so we should also think from an Egyptian point of view. The Minoans had already been well known to them in the Old Kingdom, from a time that was already thousands of years away in the time of Plato. The Minoans had been remembered as civilized and advanced sea people which appeared friendly to Egyptians and supplied them with goods. Only centuries after their demise, the Phoenicians appeared and seemed to play just the same role to the Egyptians like the Minoans had before. They were also known for sailing beyond the pillars of Melkart (only later called pillars of Hercules when he was identified with Melkart) and settled in places that would match most of their information about Atlantians that didn't fit the Minoans.
Where are you finding these thumbnails, lol.
It was rich against poor in the ancient world.
Don't presume that it's not the same shit today
I always thought, ever since I was a kid and read the Bible for the first time, that it didn't make sense. I ask people who are "Holier than thou" did you even READ the Bible??? I say that all religions are man and woman kinds way of trying to figure out who and what God is, and that while everyone has some 'sense' of God, NO ONE has it right...especially anyone who is willing to condemn someone else to hell. There are beautiful parts of the Bible which speak to the goodness in people, but a lot of is about war and hate and incest and against women, and I believe written by man, for man, to control man. The God I believe in, permeates everything in nature and all forms of life on earth and in the unknowable universe and there are no words to describe God or, let's say, the mind of God for lack of the proper word... It is what it is, I am what I am...
When I first read the Bible I immediately thought about this and how it doesn't add up I'm not sure why people miss it