Just saying, that little excerpt that you showed was phenomenal! It really conveyed a strong emotion (I felt one of deep love and loss, but I don't know the real feelings without context) without getting too wordy. Great video. I think I'll refer to this quite a bit as I write.
For me, dialogue is done the easiest if you have a solid foundation for your character So it's not mostly a question of "Does this sound realistic?", But a question of "Does this dialogue make sense for This specific character?"
"Does this sound realistic?" could very well imply that, as well Does it sound realistic that this particular character would say this particular line at this particular moment
@@hayatobun I don't want to answer for Boid, but I'll make a distinction. I agree with your thought process, but not your (or Tim's) word choice. "Realistic" can mean "believable" which is how I read your comment. But "realistic" has the root "real" right there in it. And we're writing fiction here. Some of my characters aren't going to be "realistic" by any definition of the word. I have immortal gargoyles who are currently thousands of years old and turn to stone during the day to draw their magical powers from the sun. There is no human experience that can relate to that. All of this is to say I like how @Boid said it.
@@leonardoeneria3100 well, sometimes the character having a reaction inapropriate for the situation is what makes the character, i think character must be more consistent with themselves than with the real world, if they act realistic it must be because the character is grounded, not because that is what people do in real life
@@Thomas.Wright *"No, damn Talos for his unprovoked attack upon the Summerset Isles with the Numidium, he doesn't deserve to be venerated as one of the Aedra"*
@@thalmoragent9344 Reminds me of the time I accidentally stumbled upon a rather detailed, literal fanart depiction of the line with Slughorn as a child.
I think you're the first TH-camr/author/writing instructor that I've encountered whose advice on writing dialogue has *not* been so general and hazy that it was hard for me to figure out how to put it to use. For example, you gave suggestions on *how* to give characters their own voice, rather than just saying that you should. And that was what I needed. Thank you!
Yeah, I don't know why some of these Tubers never fully explain or give detailed examples when explaining their advice. Most times they're in such a rush to go through their list and points, it feels extremely rushed, and lacking in valuable information.
I agree. Your advice on giving each character a different perspective on the topic of conversation will be extremely helpful as I continue writing! Thank you so much!
21:04 Actually, I'd argue that Gatsby's "old sport" sounding overdone and almost like a video game catchphrase was done on purpose by the author - keep in mind that using that terminology was a conscious choice adopted by Gatsby to give off a certain image. It's entirely believable that he'd end up overusing it in an attempt to sound natural.
I was about to comment this same thing, and thought better to check if someone already had. Gatsby sounds gimmicky because he is. His persona being a gimmick is a big deal in the book.
Terry Pratchett is a master of dialogue, and a master of everything. He's also an exception in many cases, and writing comedy/satire changes things. ~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe You can say that trice, is not everyday that an epic battle between two dragons for the sociopolitical fate of an entire city turns out to be a courting ritual.
@@HelloFutureMe I agree. I Love Pratchett. I was just making a joke about when he gives a character a weird tic like Swing in _Night Watch_ or Dragon King of Arms in _Feet of Clay_
@@carlosroo5460 Or when reading out a bedtime story turns into an awesome, funny, heartwarming, tear jerking, AND nightmare fueling moment all at once without feeling the least it contrived
I will second that! I fell in love with this book because it is basically a Lovecraft story through the eyes of a character whose response to creepy writing made out of fungi or some weird thing with a human face moaning in the marshes is: "Huh. Interesting! I mean...yeah, creepy and possibly dangerous. But SUPER interesting."
Thank you for addressing "said" like this. I remember in school teachers always wanted us to use other words, and some even had a poster with a bunch of alternatives to "said". Then, the moment I tried actual writing for myself, I immediately went back and just used said for most of my dialogue tags, because it just sounds weird to use words like *_ejaculated_* and I didn't want to sound weird.
Edit: he mentions this in the video, I hadn't started watching it yet... I've always used actions to fill the space of "said." It usually isn't that noticeable depending on how it's used. Always in moderation, of course. Small little actions like the character moving their head or arm, maybe continuing the movement that is going on while the dialogue is occurring to make the scene less static. It allows me to clarify which character said what without using "said" or other synonyms too frequently. That being said, sometimes a character does just SAY something, and it makes no sense to use something else. I get tired of seeing constant synonyms, it's annoying. Although if used too much, "said" can be annoying too.
In actual writing, it’s true that « said » and basic, simple words are often more useful and clear, less clunky. But your teachers asking to diversify your vocabulary served more purposes than teaching you how to write good prose. Its meant to teach students think about, use and expand their vocabulary. The more you think about your words, the more easily you’re able to access them, remember you know them. It also forces you to think about your intention with your text. What do your characters think and feel, and make sure you express it in your prose. It’s like learning any physical activity. To master technique, you start with slow, exaggerated and actually useless movements to get you body used to whatever you’re doing, and the better you get at it, the more focused and concise you become, while still getting the intended result. A high school teacher can’t teach to write well before teaching how to write at all, and it being a universal and generalist setting, the focus is getting , ideally, everybody up to speed on writing and language and vocabulary so those interested can make use of things like this video, and those not can at least function efficiently.
yeah I remember being in school and about 10 or 11 and asked my teacher if I had to use dialogue tags, I thought they sounded bad lmao, i was told you need them for clarity. I have learned you need them when you don't know who is speaking or if it adds to the scene and as you say said can be fine.
I once read a fanfiction story of a few thousand words, consisting solely of dialogue between two characters. No action tags, no "so-and-so said", nothing. It was still super engaging and well-written. Everything needed about context and tone was communicated smoothly and naturally.
When I was little, I was reading "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm" as my mom drove me home from school. I stopped reading to ask "mom what does ejaculated mean?" The look of horror on her face was something I'll never forget. She flustered a bit before asking me to give more context for my question, and after I read the passage out loud to her, she practically melted with relief before answering the question.
@@carlosroo5460 Here is a couple of things to think about. Why does the third point of your love triangle(the one getting excluded) like the main point? What do they in common with them, and what are things that would pull them apart? What's their relationship with their rival, did they know them before or is the love triangle their only view of them? Just because the two rivals in the love triangle are competing, doesn't mean they can't have their own relationship out side of it. Maybe developing that more could open up more branches with the main point? PS, I've never written a love triangle before, sorry if these don't work out.
@@helloill672 thay doesn't work becuase then the two rivals end up being shipped with eachother just as much or sometimes more than with the person they are fighting over🤣
I had a Latin professor in collage who was adamant that we should translate passages in a natural, contemporary style rather than literally. Once he commented after I'd translated an exchange between characters and ended it with "Farewell." "Really, would you say 'farewell' to someone in real life." ...yes actually. I use "farewell" quite often and completely unironically, especially with friends and family. I guess it's a personal character dialogue quirk.
Yeah see there you got a bit of a lesson in using dialogue for characterization. If you were a character in a book, the audience would probably pick up the use of “farewell” as a character quirk, specially if most other people dont use it.
I'm doing my bachelor right now (writing and illustrating a comic) and your books are a god sent. Seriously they're helping me so much with the worldbuilding of my story. Not to mention having some good reference material for my thesis :D
@jq9690 from someone who tried that, as long as you don't start giving yourself arbitrary time frames you don't need and keep the art something you can do quickly you should be fine to give it a try
It’s a very rare use of the word. Most native English speakers would be confused by it without abundant context, and most who did understand it would still think it a weird and awkward phrasing.
It is an unfashionable use of the word. You will find it used more in the early 20th century. For example W E Johns splatters it all over the pages of his Biggles books. JK probably read a lot of book set in boarding schools that were written that period, as that is when they were popular, which is why it ended up leaking into her story.
@@test2tester53 Considering JK was born in the 60s, it's highly likely she read a lot of early 20th century childrens' books that used more archaic words. I think she mentioned the book, The Little White Horse, influenced her greatly, particularly by setting up the rules in Harry Potter that whenever a scene involves food; everything on the table, it's preparation, or even on a store shelf will be described and mentioned in detail.
Full circle: It was watching your videos back in 2019 that got me interested in Avatar the Last Airbender. I had never heard of it before since I was in my 20’s when it first aired and I was working full time. Now I use your writing videos to write better ATLA fanfiction. Thank you.
Dialogue gets a lot easier when you spend as much time thinking about how someone would try to tell you about the worst behavior they've ever engaged in as you might on world-building. You start seeing a lot of flaws, mannerisms, and thought process they'd work by and you can apply that to interactions with other characters. Of course, it would not be nearly to as extreme of a degree as facing the worst thing they've ever done, but you know the foundational work so the next part is easier.
9:51 - Try reading Pride & Prejudice. Jane Austen is a wonderful writer, but she'll have a page full of dialogue between 4 or 5 characters without a single tag to tell you who's speaking. Was that Mrs. Hurst or was that Elizabeth or was that Mr. Darcy? Not tagging your dialogue is a good way to get your readers lost and have them stop reading to go back and re-read and mark up your book to figure out what just happened. Let your characters talk, by all means, but if there's more than two in a conversation make sure to tag them. (At least tag whenever one of the primary two participants changes.) Fun fact, your characters can use each other's names diegetically to show who's speaking as well.
I remember in V for Vendetta (graphic novel), one of the rules for V's dialogue (when he's not quoting someone) is that his dialogue is in iambic pentameter, which further adds to his V/5 theme.
This was super interesting. I'm a playwright so I write dialogue all the time but never think about dialogue tags (since it's just not a part of the medium) so I found that discussion really interesting. I do think about contrast and word choice and stuff like that all the time though. One thing this video didn't address (and that may again be because of medium differences between plays and books) is dialogue rhythm or pauses. I think about pauses and silence a lot because conversation flow (which in play script format is indicated with the word 'beat' for long pauses, through elipsis for trailing off, and through m dashes when a character either cuts themself off or is cut off by another character/interrupted) is really important in getting across how people are feeling. Example: "Yeah, but I just... yeah. Okay. (beat) Thanks." With different rhythm indicated, you can imagine this coming across different, like "Yeah but- I just- Yeah. Okay, thanks." To me, the first reading of this line indicates a person who's processing the information they've been told. They wanna defend themself but then decide instead to actually take in what someone has said instead of defend themself. In the second, it's a person who's not interested in hearing this information and is instead deciding to agree with who they're talking to to end the conversation faster and then maybe go complain to someone else about the annoying info they received without really taking it in. Some of this in theater is done by actors, but as a playwright, adding indications of how my dialogue should read in terms of rhythm can help an actor understand a character's emotional response without adding clunky stage directions like (sarcastically) or (teasing) or (annoyed), which I can tell you actors tend not to like because it's too micromanaging and honestly the tone should come through without having to explicitly tell the actor that the character is angry or sad. I kinda feel like this translates into books to some extent, at least to me it seems like stage directions are more like dialogue tags and using them excessively in both mediums is annoying to readers/actors trying to understand the characters. Anyway, loved the video just thought my two cents on the importance of rhythm/pauses might be useful to someone else.
One thing I'll point out about the untagged dialogue: that's best used for snappy quick dialogue or situations where it's incredibly obvious who's speaking. Examples --Quick witty repartee between two characters - if it's something that reads quickly, the odds are much lower that someone will get distracted partway through an untagged block and need to backtrack to the last dialogue tag to figure out who's speaking. Bonus points if you nail distinctive character voices, because then you can figure it out within the dialogue. --Someone knowledgeable talking about what they know never needs a tag to identify them, as long as their expertise is unique within the group and known to the reader. A professor teaching a lesson, Kelsier explaining the uses of the Allomantic metals to Vin, a doctor giving a medical diagnosis. This is because the sheer depth of knowledge being shown makes it obvious. Sure there's 50 students in that classroom, but none of them are going to be giving the lecture. If its ordinary conversation, please throw a simple said tag in every once in a while. Sure your most diehard fans and the hardcore readers are going to be 100% focused - that's why you use said: it's a short tag that is effectively invisible to most long term readers. But a lot of folks are going to face occasional distractions that pull them out of that zone. And if you've been distracted, skimming for a said tag is easy, and if it's within 5 lines or so of any given point, it's easy to find. Character voice can be trickier to pick up while skimming, since you're actually having to analyze the words said rather than just looking for the verb "said" "Said" tags also have an implied sense of normality. They imply nothing particularly important or unusual is happening when they're used instead of an action tag, and their extended absence implies a sense of tension or urgency. The longer you go without a said tag, the more momentum builds, and while that's good in some circumstances, it's bad in others. Dialogue written about a date might start with lots of tags and end with few (indicating the date is going well, the participants are very engaged in the conversation), or start with few and add in more (indicating a growing disconnect). A conversation between criminals that gets interrupted by a police raid might start with more said tags then usual, then drop them entirely when the police show up and start barking orders. (Indeed, in that circumstance, it's alright if who's speaking gets a little confused - those situations tend to be rather fraught, so the dialogue should reflect that somewhat.
Yes!! I'm in this part of the video. Tags are a blessing when we are not intimate to the characters yet or they talk very similarly (not that they don't have their own voices necessarily, but things like internal jokes anyone in the group could make). Feel things take me away more than trying to decipher what's going and who said what.
I had missed the detail about how Tyrion focuses on human cruelty in his examples because people were often mean to him since he was a dwarf. Thats a great catch.
27:15 dialogue vs summarising is also good advice for DMs of tabletop RPGs! You can save a lot of time at the table by summarizing in a 3rd-person narration the gist of a particular sequence of events or a lengthy conversation. Not every moment and every dialogue needs to be roleplayed in order to stay immersed.
Edit: Never mind this. He addressed it later. How acceptable is this in novelization? I find myself using it a lot when the details of the conversation aren't so important. Ex: 'John asked the driver who's car this was. He said Sally's.' vs "Who's car is this?" John asked. "Sally So-and-So." The driver answered.
The dialogue that you wrote yourself really grasped my attention, I was just about to look up the book and the author, but turns out it's you. Hope you get the opportunity to share this story with us!
In terms of "realistic dialogue", something I noticed just today in a conversation with my yoga students is that people have a tendency to talk about themselves or twist the information shared in a way that's relevant for them. I assume because people want to speak from their own experiences and opinions. Example: Person A: "It's so hard to just sit still in a pose!" Person B: "Yeah! I just kept thinking about what I'll cook for dinner tonight." Person C: "I had that in the beginning, but I do notice that taking more classes helped me focus longer." That observation brought me back to a memorable lesson I learned in a communication class. My professor asked, "What is communication?" My classmates gave all sorts of answers, except the right one. "Communication means you 'want' something from another." In short, people are selfish. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does help to inform a more realistic approach to writing dialogue. I figured I'd share it. :)
Oh shit that passage was yours!? That was beautiful Tim! I swear I keep on making the mistake of waiting for the anonymous passage in these videos to have come from some famous accomplished author 😂
He's done this before. Sadly, I don't remember the video it was in but it was about two robots watching the sunset at the end of their battery life. It was heartbreakingly beautiful. If someone knows the video, please tell me. I'd love to listen to that again.
That "How am I spending half an hour doing this?" in the bloopers is incredibly relatable. Sometimes the most simplest of lines/scenes is impossible to film for some reason
I like using action tags for another reason, which you even indirectly pointed out: To slow down the dialogue. Implying longer pauses or hesitation, make an exchange feel awkward (because the characters themselves feel awkward), or to give a little extra weight to something stated without resorting to just putting in a line that says, "Beat."
“A scrupulous writer, in every sentence that he writes, will ask himself at least four questions, thus: 1. What am I trying to say? 2. What words will express it? 3. What image or idiom will make it clearer? 4. Is this image fresh enough to have an effect?" -- George Orwell This quote has been my silent editor and muse for ages.
The focus of the characters is easily one of those important things that tend to get lost in translation when writers give advice about dialogue. It's one of those things that have made me go 'this is great dialogue' in my own writing without being able to put my finger on why it sounds so much better than the 39 other attempts at the same scene. Really appreciate all your writing advice videos. They're clear, succinct and to the point with great examples. Edit: Needed to add that that passage of yours was absolutely beautiful and really touching. You really nailed it on the zooming out on the "unimportant, yet important" stuff, and pulling us in for the emotional kill. Beautiful.
I took a playwriting course awhile back. The two crucial things my teacher told me about dialogue were to make each character have a goal for the scene (ie. convince, comfort, etc) and to remember that characters have the agency to leave at any given moment so there needs to be some force or reason for them to continue the conversation. Your advice was spot on. I just wanted to add to it, as it might help others.
This video is genius, Tim. You have a way of making me see and consider things in ways I hadn’t before and shake up the way I think about stories and writing them. Thank you from the bottom of a confused, ocasional writer's heart. And I love that so many of what you talk about is related to fantasy and sci-if haha
10:50 One of my very favourite character introductions in all of literature is from Tolkien's The Hobbit, Chapter VI. The Eagles are not introduced in any way before their Lord speaks, leaving the reader wondering who just spoke that sentence. 《“What is all this uproar in the forest tonight?” said the Lord of the Eagles. He was sitting, black in the moonlight, on the top of a lonely pinnacle of rock at the eastern edge of the mountains. “I hear wolves’ voices! Are the goblins at mischief in the woods?” He swept up into the air, and immediately two of his guards from the rocks at either hand leaped up to follow him.》 This is so memorable because it is the *only* instance in the book (actually maybe in all of Tolkien's Legendarium, now that I think of it) in which dialogue is initially introduced out of the blue, with absolutely no context, with the characters being described afterwards. It's beautiful because it's purposefully made to completely break with the mood of the previously chaotic scene, providing resolution and hope (like in the movie when Gandalf suddenly appears atop the hill on his white horse), and it's masterful because the confjsed reader is immediately intrigued and curious and who this new character is; the book equivalent of a mysterious voice coming from offscreen and the character appearing lately. It just works. A beautiful example of how any rule can be masterfully broken in the right way.
Hey! Your videos are not only super helpful but also so entertaining and fun to watch! I really like your editing and cutting! You make this so fun, I feel like I learned a lot with you! Thank you for your hard work and all your amazing videos! :D
I love these videos. You talk in a round about, forgiving way so that it's easy to understand from many different angels; However, you never linger on a subject too long making the viewer feel competent. Then you'll make references to earlier topics when explaining another helping things click.
When you mentioned that it's OK if they sometimes sound the same, that reminded me that in Stormlight Archives Shallan and Kaladin sound very similar to each other when they get mad or just let loose, because they use words the same way and have no problem letting loose with insults.
that sounds like a weakness on Sanderson's part. Kaladin and Shallan are very different characters with very different backgrounds. They should sound different when they're angry.
@@TomorrowWeLive Kaladin is described as talking "like an educated lighteyes" more than once (including by Shallan herself), so I guess that checks out . . .
My biggest challenge with writing dialogue in a book is not the dialogue itself but framing the narration around it to not make it look like a screenplay
The Wandering Inn by pirateaba never uses plain dialogue tags. Ever. Action tags and character speech patterns only. It usually works, and it creates some really engrossing scenes. Sometimes it doesn't work quite as well, and its hard to follow precisely. But usually, its a feat of incredible writing.
Stormlight Archives has the best "character voice" in my personal reading experience. Every character stepped into the stage and within 3-4 lines of dialogue their voice look and personality practically formed themselves in my mind
I agree, and it goes beyond dialogue. Sanderson has drawn criticism for his simplistic prose, and while I understand where it is coming from, I have read no other works where I can easily identify the viewpoint character simply by the way the voice of the prose changes when it shifts to their viewpoint. I see passages go around from time to time, and even ones where there is no direct indication by name whose viewpoint it is and there are several main characters in the scene, I can tell by the language which character is the viewpoint.
@@godminnette2 precisely! My PROBLEM with Sanderson is his emotional heavy moments don't always carry as much weight as they Should or as much as the story wants them to. The dialogue and character work POP off the page, but the drama of certain events in the story don't hit in the same masterfully crafted way
I want to add something to "set the scene", you also have to "RE-set the scene". I'm a forgetful person and also hate rereading just to remember. Don't like going back several paragraphs or even chapters just because I forgot a tidbit. I'm not saying to copy paste descriptions, but little reminders to help ground the scenes, IE "...the group briskly walked through the hall, passing the metal laced marble statues and scenic paintings." Don't expect readers to memorize expo dumps as if they have idetic memory or will keep referencing it to keep up. An ultra important point is to add flavor text referring to character appearances, IE "... She said, whilst flamboyantly flicking her golden hair." I am forgetful, I don't remember the title half the time and you expect me to memorize character descriptions you made only in the first chapter they were introduced?! This is like the floating heads problem but instead of no scene, you have mannequin stand-ins acting out the dialogue. An addendum to characters is to remind the reader who they are and what they've done so far, IE "...the young boy sang as he swung a pencil reenacting the Y shaped slice that won the tournament."
One of my creative writing professors in college had us do an exercise in which we wrote a short dialogue between two characters, but we were not allowed to use *any* tags. No tags, no action, no narration, no words outside the quotation marks, just the words the characters were saying. Our job was to make each voice distinct enough that a reader would have no trouble keeping up with who was speaking at which time, while also being colorful enough that the voices literally spoke for themselves, so no talking heads. That really opened up my eyes to just how sparing a writer can really be with dialogue tags.
7:00 Use the weird and fancy dialogue tags when you're doing the "write a short story" question on an English exam, since teachers so often encourage students to go out of their way *not* to use the word said. The problem is I'm pretty sure the takeaway for a lot of students, myself included, wasn't "for exams, it's a good idea to use fancier words to demonstrate your vocabulary" but "this is how you should always write, using the word said is bad".
27:33 As someone who recently moved far away from home, I related to this so much. I was thinking, "Wow, I need to find out what book that is." When you said that it was your own writing, I knew I had to buy your book when it comes out. Thanks Tim
You have no idea how much I needed this video. I have been very into my writings recently but my dialogue formatting for my novel (not the words themselves) have been really bothering me.
I've come to a conclusion similar to what your explaining here based on a conversation my wife and I were having. Essentially we were discussing why books were always better than movies and our conclusion was that books leave so much more to the imagination. I believe this is why "said" or singular words portray so much more than vivid descriptions can. We as readers have a general idea of what's going on and we only need the words on the page to help guide us through them, not hold our hands and tell our minds where to go.
I'm really glad you used Annihilation in this I love that book and also Jeff Vandermeer. I know you follow him on Twitter so I'm sure you're familiar with Neo lol
It was incredible how each chapter of Six Of Crows and Crooked Kingdom switched characters and I never felt lost. Everyone had their own unique voice. Gods Leigh Bardugo is so damn good.
I really appreciated your tips on creating distinct character voices. This is something I've often struggled with. It's easy when characters have different levels of education, or wildly different backgrounds, but when you have two people from the same school, in the same town... I always struggled with that. I appreciate the tips! You'll also be happy to hear that none of my characters have never ejaculated while speaking.
This is the one video that i troduced me to both Torchwood and Annihilation and they are now both my absolute favourite show and favourite book. THANK YOU TIM.
I love the character voices in His Dark Marterials, because they all have their accents. The gyptians have a really strong accent (that I even struggled to understand at first when I read it in English for the first time as a non-native speaker). People from higher classes or higher education mostly speak very clearly and with "big" words
I thought about this for a while, but now I decided to treat myself and bought both Volumes of On Writing and Worldbuilding. An early Christmasgift for myself. I neglected writing due to shedule and motivation issues but your videos always inspire me. Thank you so much 😊
I've always enjoyed writing casually. Making stories based on prompts or writing your own version of a story. The low level fanficcy stuff basically. While I'll never reach novel level writing skills (nor do I mind), your videos help me reflect on how to improve my skills to make the stories as good as I can. Thanks, this is all very interesting and helpful
Tim, that passage you wrote was beautiful. I had little to no context for the story, but I felt all the emotional undercurrents just the same. The reason your writing videos are my favorite as far as youtube goes is because you know what it is like to be a struggling writer, and you put so much thought into it. Thanks so much! As a teenager who is trying to write an epic fantasy series, your input has been a godsend.
1) awesome seeing your writing in these!!!! Good luck querying now and in future! 2) I am WAY too excited to get my hands on volume 2 and I'm calculating how many writer friends of mine need me to get them copies for christmas..... Thank you!!!!
I went back to read my dialogues, and realized I only used two saids in 30 some pages, cause it’s all action tags. A couple saids later and a bunch of action tags removed, and it’s much better. Thank you!
First of all, thank you for the great content! Could you do a video specifically on battle scenes? The fight scenes videos have been super helpful, but they focus more on one-on-one fights
The amount of detail here and the willingness to go into specific examples is more like a college lecture than a youtube video. Awesome stuff whether learning or reviewing
Agggghhh, this is so meaty and delicious! Some of this stuff I knew, some I hadn't even _remotely_ considered🤯 🙆🏾♀️🎉I'll be watching this, like, thrice over, just for a start! Very many thanks✨🖖🏾
I once wrote a Scene between a boy and his estranged father It was basically all action tags, and the conversation started anew every five lines. To this day, this is the best writing I ever did.
You should try out the monogatari novels/anime it has literally the best dialogs in anything I've ever seen. It has better dialog than tarantino movies in my opinion at least. Also it is a show that breaks every single writing rule ever and still is my favorite show ever.
Another writing video and it's over half an hour! How you may ask? THE WIZARD DID IT! Also algorithm, make this video successful. Edit for actual response: 9:24 Flawless segue Also the dialogue vs action tag conundrum now makes sense. Use action tags to signal a change in tension or who's speaking. 10:40 Of course you managed to put that in there. 28:24 everytime it's your writing it surprises me. And this line was very poignant: "silence is the sound of something said far too rarely."
That passage of yours that you read from your book was compelling. I literally said, “Damn,” out loud when you revealed that you were the one that wrote it.
Deep Space Nine has some of the greatest voicing for its characters of any work I've read or watched. While I love TNG and it also does great voicing, some of the characters were also very one-note for the overwhelming majority of the show, and this is often reflected in their dialogue. I can't think of a single conversation in the observation lounge of TNG that is one of my favorite scenes, but there are several conversations in DS9's wardroom or similar locale that definitely are. You can find a clip on TH-cam from the two-partner "Way of the Warrior," the beginning of S1. The clip is called "The Klingon have withdrawn from the Khitomer Accords." There is so much communicated about each character in the scene in both what they choose to say and how they choose to say it.
Hey, Tim. I honestly hope that you see this. This is the second time that I see something you wrote and think that is fucking beautiful before the reveal. I'm sure that many people feel like I do. Don't keep this from us, dude! Let us experience this, as long as is not damaging for you. Love from Brazil!
Hey man, I just want to say that what you are doing is meaningful and is making a wonderful difference in my life and you should be proud of yourself. I hope you feel fulfilled by the effort you put into every one of your videos. Keep going.
Please be careful with what you read. Depression is a difficult thing to handle, and suicide is not an actual solution. Covering such a novel so deeply can really have serious ramifications. I am devoted to you. I cried when Mishka passed. I have rewatched most of the videos that complimented or critiqued The Last Airbender. I have your first book on my nightstand still, eventhough I bought it as soon as I could have a physical copy. You are epic. Just... don't go dark on me. You make me want to write, but better still you make me want to write well. I don't give a shit what negative comments appear, you have been an amazing inspiration for me. I adore you. Please read more inspirational and uplifting things. There are too many books in creation for you to read in one lifetime. Choose those that suit you, but aren't focused on the dark depressed or deposed. You don't have to bright and sunshine all the time, Avitar was a good mix, just don't get stuck on a dark lonely road. I still crave your advice, and want to watch future videos. I love this channel.
I generally think writing dialogue is the part of writing that I'm best at, but I still found this video very helpful. I do sometimes worry that I'm writing talking heads and maybe I should use more action tags? But you have given me a whole new perspective on what is actually needed to avoid talking heads. I also tend to have a problem with giving my characters distinct voices. This video helped a lot with that too. Thank you!
i like how frank herbert did his blocks of text. distinguishable from action text, informational text, inner thought, dialogues, monologues, news blurbs, etc. each was its own thing.
I'm over here making mental notes and trying my best to connect this to everything else he's taught us, but I've also never written any fiction longer than two pages.
ME. TOO. Every time I try to write, I just think “man, I’m better off making comics… how do I describe the visuals without simply writing screenplay?!”
The way you accidentally flipped us off, like three times, while saying “all brand new stuff” and then switched to your ring finger, was absolutely hilarious!
These tips are really helpful. I'm personally more of a visual artist, but I've been interested in getting into writing lately, especially as it could relate to GMing for roleplaying games. Problem is, I often don't know what to look out for when it comes to writing. What makes a well developed character? How can I make different characters from the same broad strokes that don't just feel like they're a "logical result" of their environment and what happened to them? How do I know what to say and how do I make them sound like different people? I feel like writing/GMing is such a big and nebulous task and without people who know what they're talking about and can grab me by the back of my head and point me in the direction to look at and explain things in a clear and concise manner, I'd be totally lost.
Character profiles can help a lot. Look for templates that are brief. Choose at least 5 core traits and build the personality of your characters from there. Hopefully this helps you out. Good luck
I comment not too frequently and I'm just listening to this in the background but I felt like sharing this bcs it might just make your day if you happen to read this. I minimized my game at 28:25 and just said "wow" out loud.
I'm not a writer, but I enjoy your videos so much. This one reminded my of the fantastic dialogue in Vile Bodies, especially the phone conversations. That's a beautiful cover on your new book!
I actually really struggle with following long sections of pure dialogue with no tags, I have to keep going back to remember which person is talking so I tend to appreciate when authors use more tags
One thing about realistic dialogue that popped up in my head: The train of thought changing track. It happens all the time in real life, even in internal monologue, like if you remenber that the stove is still on, or you need to feed the flowers and water the cat (okay, this is an extremely scatterbrained example). Remembering your tree of conversation (had to think of the blender add-on sapling, just another example) one would very much use it not so much as salt but more like chayenne. Even more careful. But I think it can be so effective (I don't remember an example, though). Esp. a Freudian slip can show so much about a character. Just end the sentence on another thought then it began, something that even keeps the reader a bit more in, attentionwise, because they have to figure out more. Of even change a word midsentence. We do all do it. But I guess it is very easy to overuse in fiction. And I think there is a subtle difference in languages, as well (English is not my first language, but I read a lot in it. Some expressions are unique and in another language your thinking really becomes different).
![On Writing: Killing Characters! [ Harry Potter | Stephen King | Terabithia ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/treB4kuyMHk/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Killing Characters! [ Harry Potter | Stephen King | Terabithia ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: Subtext (and how to use it)! [ Tarantino | Thrones | Gatsby ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/58FyvzttlIg/mqdefault.jpg)
AHHHH WRITING AND WORLDBUILDING VOL II IS OUT I linktr.ee/timhickson thank you
32:23
The outtakes at the end are realy funny and remind of old comedy movies. Pls keep this for future videos
Just saying, that little excerpt that you showed was phenomenal! It really conveyed a strong emotion (I felt one of deep love and loss, but I don't know the real feelings without context) without getting too wordy.
Great video. I think I'll refer to this quite a bit as I write.
I actually got your first book as a Christmas present last year, so yes, I might actually get the second one this year, joke's on you!
your writing was garbage, first person? Ewww
For me, dialogue is done the easiest if you have a solid foundation for your character
So it's not mostly a question of "Does this sound realistic?", But a question of "Does this dialogue make sense for This specific character?"
Also for a specific situation.
"Does this sound realistic?" could very well imply that, as well
Does it sound realistic that this particular character would say this particular line at this particular moment
@@hayatobun I don't want to answer for Boid, but I'll make a distinction. I agree with your thought process, but not your (or Tim's) word choice. "Realistic" can mean "believable" which is how I read your comment. But "realistic" has the root "real" right there in it. And we're writing fiction here. Some of my characters aren't going to be "realistic" by any definition of the word. I have immortal gargoyles who are currently thousands of years old and turn to stone during the day to draw their magical powers from the sun. There is no human experience that can relate to that. All of this is to say I like how @Boid said it.
@@PhoenixCrown this is basically how I defined word "realistic" personally
@@leonardoeneria3100 well, sometimes the character having a reaction inapropriate for the situation is what makes the character, i think character must be more consistent with themselves than with the real world, if they act realistic it must be because the character is grounded, not because that is what people do in real life
The less I know about Snape's private life, the better, I think.
Yeah, that Thumbnail... some nightmare fuel 😅
@@thalmoragent9344 I know, right? Also,
H A I L T A L O S !!!
@@Thomas.Wright
*"No, damn Talos for his unprovoked attack upon the Summerset Isles with the Numidium, he doesn't deserve to be venerated as one of the Aedra"*
By 2067, Jowling Kowling's 15-part Snape VR spinoff will be mandatory viewing in Meta.
@@thalmoragent9344 Reminds me of the time I accidentally stumbled upon a rather detailed, literal fanart depiction of the line with Slughorn as a child.
I think you're the first TH-camr/author/writing instructor that I've encountered whose advice on writing dialogue has *not* been so general and hazy that it was hard for me to figure out how to put it to use.
For example, you gave suggestions on *how* to give characters their own voice, rather than just saying that you should. And that was what I needed.
Thank you!
Yeah, I don't know why some of these Tubers never fully explain or give detailed examples when explaining their advice. Most times they're in such a rush to go through their list and points, it feels extremely rushed, and lacking in valuable information.
I agree. Your advice on giving each character a different perspective on the topic of conversation will be extremely helpful as I continue writing! Thank you so much!
21:04 Actually, I'd argue that Gatsby's "old sport" sounding overdone and almost like a video game catchphrase was done on purpose by the author - keep in mind that using that terminology was a conscious choice adopted by Gatsby to give off a certain image. It's entirely believable that he'd end up overusing it in an attempt to sound natural.
Most definitely, it’s even mentioned by Tom later in the novel
I was about to comment this same thing, and thought better to check if someone already had.
Gatsby sounds gimmicky because he is. His persona being a gimmick is a big deal in the book.
Tim: "It's hard making characters sound different, but not so different to make it a gimmick."
Me: looks at the shelf full of Terry Pratchett books
Terry Pratchett is a master of dialogue, and a master of everything. He's also an exception in many cases, and writing comedy/satire changes things.
~ Tim
I love Sir Terry’s dialogue.
@@HelloFutureMe You can say that trice, is not everyday that an epic battle between two dragons for the sociopolitical fate of an entire city turns out to be a courting ritual.
@@HelloFutureMe I agree. I Love Pratchett. I was just making a joke about when he gives a character a weird tic like Swing in _Night Watch_ or Dragon King of Arms in _Feet of Clay_
@@carlosroo5460 Or when reading out a bedtime story turns into an awesome, funny, heartwarming, tear jerking, AND nightmare fueling moment all at once without feeling the least it contrived
15:50. Yes. I’m a biologist. That is exactly how a biologist would talk about fungi spelling out words with the fruiting body.
I will second that! I fell in love with this book because it is basically a Lovecraft story through the eyes of a character whose response to creepy writing made out of fungi or some weird thing with a human face moaning in the marshes is: "Huh. Interesting! I mean...yeah, creepy and possibly dangerous. But SUPER interesting."
Thank you for addressing "said" like this. I remember in school teachers always wanted us to use other words, and some even had a poster with a bunch of alternatives to "said". Then, the moment I tried actual writing for myself, I immediately went back and just used said for most of my dialogue tags, because it just sounds weird to use words like *_ejaculated_* and I didn't want to sound weird.
I'm happy to read the word 'ejaculated'
The only way to write "wrong" is if it looks and sounds wrong.
Edit: he mentions this in the video, I hadn't started watching it yet...
I've always used actions to fill the space of "said." It usually isn't that noticeable depending on how it's used. Always in moderation, of course.
Small little actions like the character moving their head or arm, maybe continuing the movement that is going on while the dialogue is occurring to make the scene less static. It allows me to clarify which character said what without using "said" or other synonyms too frequently.
That being said, sometimes a character does just SAY something, and it makes no sense to use something else. I get tired of seeing constant synonyms, it's annoying. Although if used too much, "said" can be annoying too.
In actual writing, it’s true that « said » and basic, simple words are often more useful and clear, less clunky. But your teachers asking to diversify your vocabulary served more purposes than teaching you how to write good prose. Its meant to teach students think about, use and expand their vocabulary. The more you think about your words, the more easily you’re able to access them, remember you know them. It also forces you to think about your intention with your text. What do your characters think and feel, and make sure you express it in your prose.
It’s like learning any physical activity. To master technique, you start with slow, exaggerated and actually useless movements to get you body used to whatever you’re doing, and the better you get at it, the more focused and concise you become, while still getting the intended result.
A high school teacher can’t teach to write well before teaching how to write at all, and it being a universal and generalist setting, the focus is getting , ideally, everybody up to speed on writing and language and vocabulary so those interested can make use of things like this video, and those not can at least function efficiently.
yeah I remember being in school and about 10 or 11 and asked my teacher if I had to use dialogue tags, I thought they sounded bad lmao, i was told you need them for clarity.
I have learned you need them when you don't know who is speaking or if it adds to the scene and as you say said can be fine.
I once read a fanfiction story of a few thousand words, consisting solely of dialogue between two characters. No action tags, no "so-and-so said", nothing. It was still super engaging and well-written. Everything needed about context and tone was communicated smoothly and naturally.
Was it the one by College Fool?
When I was little, I was reading "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm" as my mom drove me home from school. I stopped reading to ask "mom what does ejaculated mean?" The look of horror on her face was something I'll never forget. She flustered a bit before asking me to give more context for my question, and after I read the passage out loud to her, she practically melted with relief before answering the question.
I wouldn't be surprised if the author used that word to create that exact situation 😂
I'm still waiting for On Writing: Love Triangles feat. Terrible Writing Advice
Oh my God, yes! We need that to happen!
@@pavlelazarevic5042 Yes, when I think about my characters' love triangles are pretty much too one sided... Or two sided?
@@carlosroo5460 Here is a couple of things to think about. Why does the third point of your love triangle(the one getting excluded) like the main point? What do they in common with them, and what are things that would pull them apart? What's their relationship with their rival, did they know them before or is the love triangle their only view of them?
Just because the two rivals in the love triangle are competing, doesn't mean they can't have their own relationship out side of it. Maybe developing that more could open up more branches with the main point?
PS, I've never written a love triangle before, sorry if these don't work out.
@@helloill672 thay doesn't work becuase then the two rivals end up being shipped with eachother just as much or sometimes more than with the person they are fighting over🤣
And the solution, bissexual polyamorous vampire-drama.
It wouldn't be a Hello Future Me video without Avatar references
No kidding. He was my gateway drug into writing Avatar fanfic.
I had a Latin professor in collage who was adamant that we should translate passages in a natural, contemporary style rather than literally. Once he commented after I'd translated an exchange between characters and ended it with "Farewell." "Really, would you say 'farewell' to someone in real life." ...yes actually. I use "farewell" quite often and completely unironically, especially with friends and family. I guess it's a personal character dialogue quirk.
Yeah see there you got a bit of a lesson in using dialogue for characterization. If you were a character in a book, the audience would probably pick up the use of “farewell” as a character quirk, specially if most other people dont use it.
I'm doing my bachelor right now (writing and illustrating a comic) and your books are a god sent. Seriously they're helping me so much with the worldbuilding of my story. Not to mention having some good reference material for my thesis :D
Good luck on your Bachelor's! Lord knows vol.2 is on my buying list.
Must be fun to Actually be in college
@@boid9761 ups and downs
Straight facts
@jq9690 from someone who tried that, as long as you don't start giving yourself arbitrary time frames you don't need and keep the art something you can do quickly you should be fine to give it a try
So, today I learned that "ej*culated" was a synonym of "shouted" in English. Let's just say that the thumbnail worried me for a second here.
🤣
Same I thought he was gonna be talking about fanfiction or smth lmao
It’s a very rare use of the word. Most native English speakers would be confused by it without abundant context, and most who did understand it would still think it a weird and awkward phrasing.
It is an unfashionable use of the word. You will find it used more in the early 20th century. For example W E Johns splatters it all over the pages of his Biggles books. JK probably read a lot of book set in boarding schools that were written that period, as that is when they were popular, which is why it ended up leaking into her story.
@@test2tester53 Considering JK was born in the 60s, it's highly likely she read a lot of early 20th century childrens' books that used more archaic words. I think she mentioned the book, The Little White Horse, influenced her greatly, particularly by setting up the rules in Harry Potter that whenever a scene involves food; everything on the table, it's preparation, or even on a store shelf will be described and mentioned in detail.
Full circle: It was watching your videos back in 2019 that got me interested in Avatar the Last Airbender. I had never heard of it before since I was in my 20’s when it first aired and I was working full time. Now I use your writing videos to write better ATLA fanfiction. Thank you.
HAHAHAHA
Best of luck in your endeavors with it, and enjoy exploring the characters.
Thanks. I’m taking the advice in this video to work with a really tricky conversation I’m trying to plot my way through.
Could you tell me where is your fan fiction, please?
@@thomasmackliley6117 I'm on AO3, my writing name is Periphyton. I've got Avatar the Last Airbender, Good Omens, and a little Doctor Who.
Dialogue gets a lot easier when you spend as much time thinking about how someone would try to tell you about the worst behavior they've ever engaged in as you might on world-building. You start seeing a lot of flaws, mannerisms, and thought process they'd work by and you can apply that to interactions with other characters. Of course, it would not be nearly to as extreme of a degree as facing the worst thing they've ever done, but you know the foundational work so the next part is easier.
I really want to try this now
That sounds extremely useful.
9:51 - Try reading Pride & Prejudice. Jane Austen is a wonderful writer, but she'll have a page full of dialogue between 4 or 5 characters without a single tag to tell you who's speaking. Was that Mrs. Hurst or was that Elizabeth or was that Mr. Darcy?
Not tagging your dialogue is a good way to get your readers lost and have them stop reading to go back and re-read and mark up your book to figure out what just happened. Let your characters talk, by all means, but if there's more than two in a conversation make sure to tag them. (At least tag whenever one of the primary two participants changes.)
Fun fact, your characters can use each other's names diegetically to show who's speaking as well.
The thumbnail is just perfection
I remember in V for Vendetta (graphic novel), one of the rules for V's dialogue (when he's not quoting someone) is that his dialogue is in iambic pentameter, which further adds to his V/5 theme.
That's actually pretty cool, I hadn't considered that as a speech quirk of sorts
This was super interesting. I'm a playwright so I write dialogue all the time but never think about dialogue tags (since it's just not a part of the medium) so I found that discussion really interesting. I do think about contrast and word choice and stuff like that all the time though. One thing this video didn't address (and that may again be because of medium differences between plays and books) is dialogue rhythm or pauses. I think about pauses and silence a lot because conversation flow (which in play script format is indicated with the word 'beat' for long pauses, through elipsis for trailing off, and through m dashes when a character either cuts themself off or is cut off by another character/interrupted) is really important in getting across how people are feeling. Example: "Yeah, but I just... yeah. Okay. (beat) Thanks." With different rhythm indicated, you can imagine this coming across different, like "Yeah but- I just- Yeah. Okay, thanks." To me, the first reading of this line indicates a person who's processing the information they've been told. They wanna defend themself but then decide instead to actually take in what someone has said instead of defend themself. In the second, it's a person who's not interested in hearing this information and is instead deciding to agree with who they're talking to to end the conversation faster and then maybe go complain to someone else about the annoying info they received without really taking it in. Some of this in theater is done by actors, but as a playwright, adding indications of how my dialogue should read in terms of rhythm can help an actor understand a character's emotional response without adding clunky stage directions like (sarcastically) or (teasing) or (annoyed), which I can tell you actors tend not to like because it's too micromanaging and honestly the tone should come through without having to explicitly tell the actor that the character is angry or sad. I kinda feel like this translates into books to some extent, at least to me it seems like stage directions are more like dialogue tags and using them excessively in both mediums is annoying to readers/actors trying to understand the characters. Anyway, loved the video just thought my two cents on the importance of rhythm/pauses might be useful to someone else.
Oh, yeah. This was definitively wrote by a full-time writer.
One thing I'll point out about the untagged dialogue: that's best used for snappy quick dialogue or situations where it's incredibly obvious who's speaking. Examples
--Quick witty repartee between two characters - if it's something that reads quickly, the odds are much lower that someone will get distracted partway through an untagged block and need to backtrack to the last dialogue tag to figure out who's speaking. Bonus points if you nail distinctive character voices, because then you can figure it out within the dialogue.
--Someone knowledgeable talking about what they know never needs a tag to identify them, as long as their expertise is unique within the group and known to the reader. A professor teaching a lesson, Kelsier explaining the uses of the Allomantic metals to Vin, a doctor giving a medical diagnosis. This is because the sheer depth of knowledge being shown makes it obvious. Sure there's 50 students in that classroom, but none of them are going to be giving the lecture.
If its ordinary conversation, please throw a simple said tag in every once in a while. Sure your most diehard fans and the hardcore readers are going to be 100% focused - that's why you use said: it's a short tag that is effectively invisible to most long term readers. But a lot of folks are going to face occasional distractions that pull them out of that zone. And if you've been distracted, skimming for a said tag is easy, and if it's within 5 lines or so of any given point, it's easy to find. Character voice can be trickier to pick up while skimming, since you're actually having to analyze the words said rather than just looking for the verb "said"
"Said" tags also have an implied sense of normality. They imply nothing particularly important or unusual is happening when they're used instead of an action tag, and their extended absence implies a sense of tension or urgency. The longer you go without a said tag, the more momentum builds, and while that's good in some circumstances, it's bad in others. Dialogue written about a date might start with lots of tags and end with few (indicating the date is going well, the participants are very engaged in the conversation), or start with few and add in more (indicating a growing disconnect). A conversation between criminals that gets interrupted by a police raid might start with more said tags then usual, then drop them entirely when the police show up and start barking orders. (Indeed, in that circumstance, it's alright if who's speaking gets a little confused - those situations tend to be rather fraught, so the dialogue should reflect that somewhat.
Yes!! I'm in this part of the video. Tags are a blessing when we are not intimate to the characters yet or they talk very similarly (not that they don't have their own voices necessarily, but things like internal jokes anyone in the group could make). Feel things take me away more than trying to decipher what's going and who said what.
I had missed the detail about how Tyrion focuses on human cruelty in his examples because people were often mean to him since he was a dwarf. Thats a great catch.
27:15 dialogue vs summarising is also good advice for DMs of tabletop RPGs! You can save a lot of time at the table by summarizing in a 3rd-person narration the gist of a particular sequence of events or a lengthy conversation. Not every moment and every dialogue needs to be roleplayed in order to stay immersed.
Edit: Never mind this. He addressed it later.
How acceptable is this in novelization? I find myself using it a lot when the details of the conversation aren't so important.
Ex: 'John asked the driver who's car this was. He said Sally's.' vs "Who's car is this?" John asked. "Sally So-and-So." The driver answered.
I never thought about assigning different roles and perspectives to the different characters in a dialogue. Very insightful!
The dialogue that you wrote yourself really grasped my attention, I was just about to look up the book and the author, but turns out it's you. Hope you get the opportunity to share this story with us!
In terms of "realistic dialogue", something I noticed just today in a conversation with my yoga students is that people have a tendency to talk about themselves or twist the information shared in a way that's relevant for them. I assume because people want to speak from their own experiences and opinions. Example:
Person A: "It's so hard to just sit still in a pose!"
Person B: "Yeah! I just kept thinking about what I'll cook for dinner tonight."
Person C: "I had that in the beginning, but I do notice that taking more classes helped me focus longer."
That observation brought me back to a memorable lesson I learned in a communication class. My professor asked, "What is communication?" My classmates gave all sorts of answers, except the right one. "Communication means you 'want' something from another." In short, people are selfish. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does help to inform a more realistic approach to writing dialogue. I figured I'd share it. :)
Oh shit that passage was yours!? That was beautiful Tim! I swear I keep on making the mistake of waiting for the anonymous passage in these videos to have come from some famous accomplished author 😂
Same! I was like “oh wow that was beautiful and poetic” and then he’s like “I wrote this” 😂
Oh, good. It wasn't just me.
It's only a matter of time before he *is* a famous accomplished author.
I mean, give it a couple of months, right?
He's done this before. Sadly, I don't remember the video it was in but it was about two robots watching the sunset at the end of their battery life. It was heartbreakingly beautiful.
If someone knows the video, please tell me. I'd love to listen to that again.
That "How am I spending half an hour doing this?" in the bloopers is incredibly relatable. Sometimes the most simplest of lines/scenes is impossible to film for some reason
I don't write or worldbuild but I love what you do. I hope all the writers/worldbuilders are stoked about your book
I like using action tags for another reason, which you even indirectly pointed out: To slow down the dialogue. Implying longer pauses or hesitation, make an exchange feel awkward (because the characters themselves feel awkward), or to give a little extra weight to something stated without resorting to just putting in a line that says, "Beat."
i know this doesn't mean much coming from someone you don't know, but your writing is really comforting to read. i hope you go far.
Plot twist: Graham the Wizard Who Likes Cats is the protagonist in Tim's upcoming novel
Duhduhduuuuh
“A scrupulous writer, in every sentence that he writes, will ask himself at least four questions, thus: 1. What am I trying to say? 2. What words will express it? 3. What image or idiom will make it clearer? 4. Is this image fresh enough to have an effect?"
-- George Orwell
This quote has been my silent editor and muse for ages.
The focus of the characters is easily one of those important things that tend to get lost in translation when writers give advice about dialogue.
It's one of those things that have made me go 'this is great dialogue' in my own writing without being able to put my finger on why it sounds so much better than the 39 other attempts at the same scene.
Really appreciate all your writing advice videos. They're clear, succinct and to the point with great examples.
Edit: Needed to add that that passage of yours was absolutely beautiful and really touching.
You really nailed it on the zooming out on the "unimportant, yet important" stuff, and pulling us in for the emotional kill.
Beautiful.
I took a playwriting course awhile back. The two crucial things my teacher told me about dialogue were to make each character have a goal for the scene (ie. convince, comfort, etc) and to remember that characters have the agency to leave at any given moment so there needs to be some force or reason for them to continue the conversation. Your advice was spot on. I just wanted to add to it, as it might help others.
This video is genius, Tim. You have a way of making me see and consider things in ways I hadn’t before and shake up the way I think about stories and writing them. Thank you from the bottom of a confused, ocasional writer's heart. And I love that so many of what you talk about is related to fantasy and sci-if haha
10:50 One of my very favourite character introductions in all of literature is from Tolkien's The Hobbit, Chapter VI. The Eagles are not introduced in any way before their Lord speaks, leaving the reader wondering who just spoke that sentence.
《“What is all this uproar in the forest tonight?” said the Lord of the Eagles. He was sitting, black in the moonlight, on the top of a lonely pinnacle of rock at the eastern edge of the mountains. “I hear wolves’ voices! Are the goblins at mischief in the woods?”
He swept up into the air, and immediately two of his guards from the rocks at either hand leaped up to follow him.》
This is so memorable because it is the *only* instance in the book (actually maybe in all of Tolkien's Legendarium, now that I think of it) in which dialogue is initially introduced out of the blue, with absolutely no context, with the characters being described afterwards. It's beautiful because it's purposefully made to completely break with the mood of the previously chaotic scene, providing resolution and hope (like in the movie when Gandalf suddenly appears atop the hill on his white horse), and it's masterful because the confjsed reader is immediately intrigued and curious and who this new character is; the book equivalent of a mysterious voice coming from offscreen and the character appearing lately. It just works. A beautiful example of how any rule can be masterfully broken in the right way.
Holy cow. Every time he shares his writing I am blown away by how much I love it. I can’t wait to be able to actually read it
Hey!
Your videos are not only super helpful but also so entertaining and fun to watch! I really like your editing and cutting! You make this so fun, I feel like I learned a lot with you! Thank you for your hard work and all your amazing videos! :D
I love these videos. You talk in a round about, forgiving way so that it's easy to understand from many different angels; However, you never linger on a subject too long making the viewer feel competent. Then you'll make references to earlier topics when explaining another helping things click.
When you mentioned that it's OK if they sometimes sound the same, that reminded me that in Stormlight Archives Shallan and Kaladin sound very similar to each other when they get mad or just let loose, because they use words the same way and have no problem letting loose with insults.
that sounds like a weakness on Sanderson's part. Kaladin and Shallan are very different characters with very different backgrounds. They should sound different when they're angry.
@@TomorrowWeLive Maybe it's intentional. Knowing how good Sanderson is, it's probably intentional. Still, it is an interesting observation.
@@TomorrowWeLive Kaladin is described as talking "like an educated lighteyes" more than once (including by Shallan herself), so I guess that checks out . . .
My biggest challenge with writing dialogue in a book is not the dialogue itself but framing the narration around it to not make it look like a screenplay
SAME.
If you're accidentally creating screenplays, maybe try making a few on purpose? Maybe it goes both ways?
The Wandering Inn by pirateaba never uses plain dialogue tags. Ever. Action tags and character speech patterns only. It usually works, and it creates some really engrossing scenes.
Sometimes it doesn't work quite as well, and its hard to follow precisely. But usually, its a feat of incredible writing.
Charlie Huston does that in a lot of his books too
Stormlight Archives has the best "character voice" in my personal reading experience. Every character stepped into the stage and within 3-4 lines of dialogue their voice look and personality practically formed themselves in my mind
I agree, and it goes beyond dialogue. Sanderson has drawn criticism for his simplistic prose, and while I understand where it is coming from, I have read no other works where I can easily identify the viewpoint character simply by the way the voice of the prose changes when it shifts to their viewpoint. I see passages go around from time to time, and even ones where there is no direct indication by name whose viewpoint it is and there are several main characters in the scene, I can tell by the language which character is the viewpoint.
@@godminnette2 precisely! My PROBLEM with Sanderson is his emotional heavy moments don't always carry as much weight as they Should or as much as the story wants them to. The dialogue and character work POP off the page, but the drama of certain events in the story don't hit in the same masterfully crafted way
Well that's a thumbnail I could have gone without seeing in my life.
I want to add something to "set the scene", you also have to "RE-set the scene". I'm a forgetful person and also hate rereading just to remember. Don't like going back several paragraphs or even chapters just because I forgot a tidbit. I'm not saying to copy paste descriptions, but little reminders to help ground the scenes, IE "...the group briskly walked through the hall, passing the metal laced marble statues and scenic paintings." Don't expect readers to memorize expo dumps as if they have idetic memory or will keep referencing it to keep up.
An ultra important point is to add flavor text referring to character appearances, IE "... She said, whilst flamboyantly flicking her golden hair." I am forgetful, I don't remember the title half the time and you expect me to memorize character descriptions you made only in the first chapter they were introduced?! This is like the floating heads problem but instead of no scene, you have mannequin stand-ins acting out the dialogue. An addendum to characters is to remind the reader who they are and what they've done so far, IE "...the young boy sang as he swung a pencil reenacting the Y shaped slice that won the tournament."
One of my creative writing professors in college had us do an exercise in which we wrote a short dialogue between two characters, but we were not allowed to use *any* tags. No tags, no action, no narration, no words outside the quotation marks, just the words the characters were saying. Our job was to make each voice distinct enough that a reader would have no trouble keeping up with who was speaking at which time, while also being colorful enough that the voices literally spoke for themselves, so no talking heads. That really opened up my eyes to just how sparing a writer can really be with dialogue tags.
7:00 Use the weird and fancy dialogue tags when you're doing the "write a short story" question on an English exam, since teachers so often encourage students to go out of their way *not* to use the word said.
The problem is I'm pretty sure the takeaway for a lot of students, myself included, wasn't "for exams, it's a good idea to use fancier words to demonstrate your vocabulary" but "this is how you should always write, using the word said is bad".
27:33 As someone who recently moved far away from home, I related to this so much. I was thinking, "Wow, I need to find out what book that is." When you said that it was your own writing, I knew I had to buy your book when it comes out. Thanks Tim
You have no idea how much I needed this video. I have been very into my writings recently but my dialogue formatting for my novel (not the words themselves) have been really bothering me.
I've come to a conclusion similar to what your explaining here based on a conversation my wife and I were having. Essentially we were discussing why books were always better than movies and our conclusion was that books leave so much more to the imagination. I believe this is why "said" or singular words portray so much more than vivid descriptions can. We as readers have a general idea of what's going on and we only need the words on the page to help guide us through them, not hold our hands and tell our minds where to go.
I'm really glad you used Annihilation in this I love that book and also Jeff Vandermeer. I know you follow him on Twitter so I'm sure you're familiar with Neo lol
i loooved the southern reach trilogy for so many reasons.
these books have a certain feel to them that no other books could ever capture for me
It's not a tunnel, it's a tower.
Love the video. Great info, nicely condensed.
It was incredible how each chapter of Six Of Crows and Crooked Kingdom switched characters and I never felt lost. Everyone had their own unique voice. Gods Leigh Bardugo is so damn good.
Finally, some real, substantial advice on writing dialogue! I've looked everywhere for a video like this! Thank you, Tim. Stay nerdy.
27:33 I have to say, personally, I enjoyed the writing you did here over any of the other examples you made during this video. It's very good.
I really appreciated your tips on creating distinct character voices. This is something I've often struggled with. It's easy when characters have different levels of education, or wildly different backgrounds, but when you have two people from the same school, in the same town... I always struggled with that. I appreciate the tips!
You'll also be happy to hear that none of my characters have never ejaculated while speaking.
The timing of this was perfect! And the extract from your book was absolutely amazing!❤
This is the one video that i troduced me to both Torchwood and Annihilation and they are now both my absolute favourite show and favourite book. THANK YOU TIM.
I love the character voices in His Dark Marterials, because they all have their accents. The gyptians have a really strong accent (that I even struggled to understand at first when I read it in English for the first time as a non-native speaker). People from higher classes or higher education mostly speak very clearly and with "big" words
I thought about this for a while, but now I decided to treat myself and bought both Volumes of On Writing and Worldbuilding. An early Christmasgift for myself.
I neglected writing due to shedule and motivation issues but your videos always inspire me. Thank you so much 😊
I've always enjoyed writing casually. Making stories based on prompts or writing your own version of a story. The low level fanficcy stuff basically. While I'll never reach novel level writing skills (nor do I mind), your videos help me reflect on how to improve my skills to make the stories as good as I can. Thanks, this is all very interesting and helpful
The way you broke this down so effectively is impressive
Please tell me the internal title page for volume 2 actually says "volume two: electric boogaloo"
You'll have to buy it to find out ;)
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe wow
Tim pulled a RAFO
@@HelloFutureMe can you lend me twenty bucks? I need to buy a book.
Tim, that passage you wrote was beautiful. I had little to no context for the story, but I felt all the emotional undercurrents just the same. The reason your writing videos are my favorite as far as youtube goes is because you know what it is like to be a struggling writer, and you put so much thought into it. Thanks so much! As a teenager who is trying to write an epic fantasy series, your input has been a godsend.
1) awesome seeing your writing in these!!!! Good luck querying now and in future!
2) I am WAY too excited to get my hands on volume 2 and I'm calculating how many writer friends of mine need me to get them copies for christmas.....
Thank you!!!!
Tim, you're a phenomenally relatable and skilled teacher.
that is... definitely a thumbnail, there's no denying lmao
It got you here didn't it *finger guns*
@@HelloFutureMe you have a point lol
I went back to read my dialogues, and realized I only used two saids in 30 some pages, cause it’s all action tags. A couple saids later and a bunch of action tags removed, and it’s much better. Thank you!
First of all, thank you for the great content! Could you do a video specifically on battle scenes? The fight scenes videos have been super helpful, but they focus more on one-on-one fights
The amount of detail here and the willingness to go into specific examples is more like a college lecture than a youtube video. Awesome stuff whether learning or reviewing
Agggghhh, this is so meaty and delicious! Some of this stuff I knew, some I hadn't even _remotely_ considered🤯
🙆🏾♀️🎉I'll be watching this, like, thrice over, just for a start! Very many thanks✨🖖🏾
I once wrote a Scene between a boy and his estranged father
It was basically all action tags, and the conversation started anew every five lines.
To this day, this is the best writing I ever did.
You should try out the monogatari novels/anime it has literally the best dialogs in anything I've ever seen. It has better dialog than tarantino movies in my opinion at least. Also it is a show that breaks every single writing rule ever and still is my favorite show ever.
Yeah but its really fucking weird thoh
@@anishsawan6496 Makes it better :)
Isn't that the pedo one?
@@alphasword5541 u can say that about a lot of anime 😂😅
last time I check that series has incest gags
This may be the single most impactful video I've ever seen in terms of how it'll improve my writing. This has always been my weak spot. Thank you!
Another writing video and it's over half an hour! How you may ask? THE WIZARD DID IT! Also algorithm, make this video successful.
Edit for actual response:
9:24 Flawless segue
Also the dialogue vs action tag conundrum now makes sense. Use action tags to signal a change in tension or who's speaking.
10:40 Of course you managed to put that in there.
28:24 everytime it's your writing it surprises me. And this line was very poignant: "silence is the sound of something said far too rarely."
That passage of yours that you read from your book was compelling. I literally said, “Damn,” out loud when you revealed that you were the one that wrote it.
Deep Space Nine has some of the greatest voicing for its characters of any work I've read or watched. While I love TNG and it also does great voicing, some of the characters were also very one-note for the overwhelming majority of the show, and this is often reflected in their dialogue. I can't think of a single conversation in the observation lounge of TNG that is one of my favorite scenes, but there are several conversations in DS9's wardroom or similar locale that definitely are.
You can find a clip on TH-cam from the two-partner "Way of the Warrior," the beginning of S1. The clip is called "The Klingon have withdrawn from the Khitomer Accords."
There is so much communicated about each character in the scene in both what they choose to say and how they choose to say it.
DS9 has the best characterization in star trek without a doubt, and probably the best of all 90s television.
I startes watching dragons and elemental wizards, and now i’m Learning to be an author. i can’t understate how much i love your content
Hey, Tim. I honestly hope that you see this. This is the second time that I see something you wrote and think that is fucking beautiful before the reveal. I'm sure that many people feel like I do. Don't keep this from us, dude! Let us experience this, as long as is not damaging for you. Love from Brazil!
That piece of your own writing blew me away! Beautiful Tim!
Your passage was beautiful
Hey man, I just want to say that what you are doing is meaningful and is making a wonderful difference in my life and you should be proud of yourself.
I hope you feel fulfilled by the effort you put into every one of your videos.
Keep going.
Please be careful with what you read. Depression is a difficult thing to handle, and suicide is not an actual solution. Covering such a novel so deeply can really have serious ramifications.
I am devoted to you. I cried when Mishka passed. I have rewatched most of the videos that complimented or critiqued The Last Airbender. I have your first book on my nightstand still, eventhough I bought it as soon as I could have a physical copy.
You are epic.
Just... don't go dark on me. You make me want to write, but better still you make me want to write well. I don't give a shit what negative comments appear, you have been an amazing inspiration for me. I adore you.
Please read more inspirational and uplifting things. There are too many books in creation for you to read in one lifetime. Choose those that suit you, but aren't focused on the dark depressed or deposed. You don't have to bright and sunshine all the time, Avitar was a good mix, just don't get stuck on a dark lonely road. I still crave your advice, and want to watch future videos.
I love this channel.
I generally think writing dialogue is the part of writing that I'm best at, but I still found this video very helpful.
I do sometimes worry that I'm writing talking heads and maybe I should use more action tags? But you have given me a whole new perspective on what is actually needed to avoid talking heads.
I also tend to have a problem with giving my characters distinct voices. This video helped a lot with that too.
Thank you!
The bloopers at the end were a great touch 😄 love your content tim
i like how frank herbert did his blocks of text. distinguishable from action text, informational text, inner thought, dialogues, monologues, news blurbs, etc. each was its own thing.
Bahahaha! Sorry, that thumbnail killed me 😅 Stoked for this video!
I knew my dialogue was clunky, but couldn't figure out how to make it better. This is super helpful! Thank you :)
I'm over here making mental notes and trying my best to connect this to everything else he's taught us, but I've also never written any fiction longer than two pages.
ME. TOO. Every time I try to write, I just think “man, I’m better off making comics… how do I describe the visuals without simply writing screenplay?!”
Silence is the sound of something said far to rarely, or however it was phrased, is a really powerful line, especially when used like that
The way you accidentally flipped us off, like three times, while saying “all brand new stuff” and then switched to your ring finger, was absolutely hilarious!
honestly every little fragment of your book makes me fall in love a bit more with it
These tips are really helpful. I'm personally more of a visual artist, but I've been interested in getting into writing lately, especially as it could relate to GMing for roleplaying games. Problem is, I often don't know what to look out for when it comes to writing. What makes a well developed character? How can I make different characters from the same broad strokes that don't just feel like they're a "logical result" of their environment and what happened to them? How do I know what to say and how do I make them sound like different people?
I feel like writing/GMing is such a big and nebulous task and without people who know what they're talking about and can grab me by the back of my head and point me in the direction to look at and explain things in a clear and concise manner, I'd be totally lost.
Character profiles can help a lot. Look for templates that are brief. Choose at least 5 core traits and build the personality of your characters from there. Hopefully this helps you out. Good luck
I comment not too frequently and I'm just listening to this in the background but I felt like sharing this bcs it might just make your day if you happen to read this. I minimized my game at 28:25 and just said "wow" out loud.
Tim’s on a roll
I'm not a writer, but I enjoy your videos so much. This one reminded my of the fantastic dialogue in Vile Bodies, especially the phone conversations.
That's a beautiful cover on your new book!
I actually really struggle with following long sections of pure dialogue with no tags, I have to keep going back to remember which person is talking so I tend to appreciate when authors use more tags
One thing about realistic dialogue that popped up in my head: The train of thought changing track. It happens all the time in real life, even in internal monologue, like if you remenber that the stove is still on, or you need to feed the flowers and water the cat (okay, this is an extremely scatterbrained example). Remembering your tree of conversation (had to think of the blender add-on sapling, just another example) one would very much use it not so much as salt but more like chayenne. Even more careful. But I think it can be so effective (I don't remember an example, though). Esp. a Freudian slip can show so much about a character. Just end the sentence on another thought then it began, something that even keeps the reader a bit more in, attentionwise, because they have to figure out more. Of even change a word midsentence. We do all do it. But I guess it is very easy to overuse in fiction. And I think there is a subtle difference in languages, as well (English is not my first language, but I read a lot in it. Some expressions are unique and in another language your thinking really becomes different).