Two things! [1] Reward y'self with On Writing and Worldbuilding Vol II linktr.ee/timhickson and [2] Nine points to anyone who remembers the 24HR CHARITY LIVESTREAM 10th DEC 4PM EST. We will be raising money for Safe Harbour, who provide a refuge to people of all genders escaping abuse. Covid, lockdowns, and isolation have meant people have been locked in with their abusers, leading to increased risk of suicide and elsewise, and these services are a vital escape. I'm glad to see the money going to them. Stay safe! ~ Tim
I just wanted to point out you picked Makos Birthday (December 10th) for your charity live stream. Also Tim your an amazing person and I love your channel 😄
I love it when characters are mature enough to discuss what is normally subtext in their conversations but then there's another layer of subtext underneath it.
I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate? Do you have an example? Do you mean that the characters understand their own feelings and are able to convey them, but there is thematic subtext, or something different?
There's a scene in my current piece of writing where two people are arguing, and one of them breaks something. But then they both stop, stare at the broken thing, and talk to each other about how emotionally screwed-up they are instead. Their ability to admit this implies that they have a very good relationship, as they can be honest about deep emotional stuff with each other.
@@orngjce223I know I'm a guy a year into the future but I would like to say that your writing is amazing. If you don't mind me asking, do you write for fun or are you in a career in which you do so?
@@XlWolfMaster I write fanfiction as a hobby. I mean, I won't tell you exactly which ones because that would become very awkward very quickly, but I treat fandom kind of like a writers circle, where you show each other your stuff and get both praise and critique. In particular, certain types of relationship development require a skilled and delicate hand to come off as entertaining rather than confusing and cringeworthy, and skill in scene pacing and description generalizes out of that arena surprisingly well.
@@orngjce223 I admire your willingness to commit to your standards, and it sounds pretty professional by what you have told me. How long have you been writing roughly?
Now I know why my dialogue always sounds so heavy-handed. I'm hard at reading subtext in real life as well so I seem to leave it out in fiction too lol
I also had a lot of problems with it. One thing that helped a lot was trying to input any subtext I already knew in the stories (like "when someone says they wish you good luck they're probably not going to activelly help you", and such). That helped a lot to understand when it can be put, and how much you can twist words and still have It. After that things become easier in the writing Side of things (I'm still bad at IRL subtext... There's some progress but it's like from -10 to -6).
@@valhatan3907 LOL what kinda writer struggles with sarcasm? It's so easy, everyone and their dog can understand it. A child could write sarcasm. (That was sarcasm. I too struggle a lot with sarcasm.)
@@ExploreImagineDefineCreate I fell for that so hard lol. I love vocal sarcasm, I probably use it too much, but I think everyone has a hard time with written sarcasm at least sometimes
One thing I'd add though, is that lack of emotional subtext can be subtext in itself. I've found that people who aren't used to being expressive or struggle with emotional honesty can end up using blunt or bland descriptors when trying to explain themselves to other people. They might not be entirely accurate with it, but it can show the first steps and struggle.
Here's my thoughts on your accent: The accent you were going for was an upper-class Southern accent that you don't really hear all that often anymore. There used to be two variations of Southern accents (generally speaking, of course, as there were also countless regional variations), but these days they've slowed merged into one. Your accent was a decent imitation of an accent that would have been accurate for both the socioeconomic status and the time period--but not the region, as The Great Gatsby takes place in New York, not the American South. That being said, it was still a much better job of that specific accent than I'll ever be able to do of a New Zealand accent!
As a Louisvillian (as is fictional fellow Kentuckian Daisy) & a proud Southerner, I say not bad for only knowing our sound from the media. What drawl we still have is softer & more subtle to most ears. You seem to be going for a “Deep South” accent, which we don’t have here in the northernmost portion of the American South. It’s quite entertaining to hear you give your listeners the full “Foghorn Leghorn”. I’ve heard several actors say (including your fellow Kiwi, Lucy Lawless) a New Zealander can do a Southeastern US accent more easily than many others. Thank all y’all for the fun in another quality video essay. I recommend listening to the spoken word poetry of Wendell Berry to hear what an educated Kentuckian of a certain age sounds like. (This has been edited for more correctness in grammar… though I simply cannot bring myself to cease using the pronoun y’all when advocating for the glories of the true Southern voice.)
Your American accent was interesting, it gave us a little tour of the country. This is super helpful, it's making me reevaluate what has been kind of irking me about my own writing and what I've been really enjoying with this current book I'm reading. Thanks again for another great video!
His American accent damaged my ears. Now I finally know how Brits feel hearing me accidentally mashup Cockney, Geordie, and Yorkshire accents into one monstrous “accent.”
I once collaborated with an aspiring writer on a project, and we reached an impasse about the use of subtext. I thought it was necessary, indeed the whole point of story. He saw it as a roadblock to the accessibility of the story. Why develop themes or characterization at all if not everyone reading the story will pick them up? But this really clarified for me the point of subtext. For my collaborator, the most important thing was absolute control, to ensure everything he wanted the story to be was shoveled into the head of the reader. To me, subtext was the space you make for the reader. It turns a one-sided form of communication into a dialog. When the reader must puzzle together the unspoken truths of the story, it allows them not just to passively absorb, but actively participate. It turns out, audience participation is a crucial part of all art. Without it, it's not art, just attempted propaganda, trying to force the reader to think and feel a certain way by telling them what the story means. And most people rebel at that. No one wants to be told how to think. In fact, I've noticed when a story that tries to spell out what it means, we tend to go looking for an alternate meaning that is hidden between the lines. And usually, we find one. Because even if it's unintended, subtext is always there. The purpose of a story is for the author to convey what they believe. And much of what we believe is unconscious. So an author's unconscious beliefs permeate their stories in ways they aren't even aware of. The harder an author tries to control the meaning of a story, the more naked those unconscious beliefs become, as readers instinctually focus on whatever is left unspoken. For those who dismiss subtext, like our friend Garth Marenghi, what they don't intend to reveal tells us far more than what they think they're trying to explain.
How can you say he wanted control and accessibility in the same breath and not realize that he wasn't about telling the reader what to think, he was about communicating to the reader what the characters think? You literally assigned him a motivation by yourself because you read into it, thereby converting his intentions from good to bad by ignoring what was actually said. I pity your collaborator! He spelled it out to you and you still missed the point.
@@azdajajeanne Well, for what it's worth, you don't know him like I did :) But I see your point. In real life, it's all too easy to apply one's own narrative onto a situation instead of seeing it from other people's perspective and trying to understand their narrative. I've had to learn to step back and not force my narrative on others. But I think that applies to writing too. In stories, you can explain what happens and what people are thinking, but you have to let readers decide the meaning for themselves. Characters can have an interpretation, but it should say more about the character than the true meaning of the story itself. In my opinion, if you explain to the reader what you want your story to mean, you're trying to control the reader, tell them how to think. My collaborator was putting the actual meaning of the story in the main character's mouth, rather than letting the reader work it out for themselves, exactly like the characters in that passage from the book Child 44 in the video. What's the point of even telling a story at all if you're just going to explain what it meant anyway? If they ended the Matrix with the Oracle explaining all the double-meanings behind her riddles, it would ruin the character, and spoil the experience of the story. And that's exactly what my friend wanted to do.
@@JonathanJK That was my complaint about Star Trek Next Generation back when it first aired, that the subtext of each story and each character was deliberately explained, as though the show was its own academic analysis. Despite several episodes and topics sounding interesting, nothing I've seen of the show since has contradicted that first impression in the slightest. My friends who love the show remind me that this is by design, that it's supposed to directly state its themes and ideologies so that there can be no mistaking them (If only that was all it took.) I still haven't seen Discovery, but it's possible that the big backlash isn't that it's different from previous Star Trek, but that the audience has changed, as a group and, to some degree, as individuals. The same messages and themes once embraced in the older shows are now met with resistance. I have no doubt that, were Star Trek TNG to debut in this day and age, it would meet the exact same criticisms.
@@rottensquid You haven't seen it, it's very different in narrative and characterisations. The level headed backlash is against telling us the issue instead of showing us. I kind of want you to watch it and then you'll know, but another part of me doesn't want you to waste your time. It doesn't even question its own changed premise in season 3. It's utterly devoid of imagination, it says nothing of the human condition other than pay lip service to trauma. Where classic trek brought us tablet devices and holodecks and transporters. Discovery tells us that pronouns are still something to teach to others (especially gay men) against a back drop of different aliens and their cultures.
Missing out on subtext is the one thing I'm absolutely terrified of when it comes to my writing. Usually I just let my characters talk in their voices when I'm arranging dialog, but the need of adding subtext makes me feel like I have to be way more conscious than I'm. This video actually helped me to gain some confidence because I already did it naturally. However, I'll go back and get rid of all (or most) the clear statements about the emotions in play. Once again, thank you for a great video!
A basic rule of thumb is, if your beta readers get back to you & go, "Your dialog is too on the nose" or "People are too direct / too obvious" it usually means you're lacking sub-text.
The line “I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards” is from Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace. It’s on TH-cam, and it’s one of the greatest shows of all time.
Maybe it's the neurodivergence in me, but I actually like when some things are spelled out, when characters communicate clearly what they mean or what's important to them. I get so annoyed in shows when they tease at conflicts that never clearly conclude, or don't get addressed in healthy ways. I still think subtext is critical in stories, but I will continue to try to write characters who don't *only just* suggest what they want, need, or feel.
I love the idea of a character who's used to talking in subtext only going through an arc that ends with them being able to comfortably express what they really need to in order to like patch up a misunderstanding with or apologize to character b in a healthy way like yass overcome those boundaries reach that connecting point that allows the two of you to understand each other rather than assuming that character b will pick up on your cryptic wordss do that healthy, straightforward communicationnn wooo
Oh yeh! A lot of my stories focus on challenging biases through healthy communication, so I often push subtext to the side for stuff like that. My most recent work focuses on that and then the inverse.
oh man, what you said about people fixating on small things when in a crisis is so true and i can’t believe i never realized it. i volunteered at a sexual and domestic violence hotline, and CONSTANTLY clients would call in sobbing over one “small” thing. i’ve had clients call in after testifying in court against an abuser/ rapist not because of the triggering testimony, but because their rapist’s kids or parents came to the trial that day and heard everything. it’s only once they calm down a little that they find the bigger issue hurting them - fear or loneliness or PTSD symptoms or sadness that a love they once had is gone, and maybe never existed.
The Great Gatsby takes place in the neighborhoods around new York City. So their accent would be a New England or another North Atlantic accent. Your older Southernish ( with bits of New Zealand mixed in) accent would be an accent of a lower class at this time period. Since the subtext of Gatsby is tied to class those characters would never be caught dead speaking in a southern accent because the south was the poorest region in the US at the time(Jim Crow, post reconstruction, low industrialization). The Southern accent would be a rich class accent during the Antebellum period but once the US industrialized the high class accent became the northern ones and later the west coast accents because movies.
I would like to note that, as someone seeing a Therapist, I can't articulate my feelings only when I don't know what they are. And your comparison seems a little off from the context given, and while your rewrite isn't bad-it does miss a potential reason for the more bluntness. When you're close with someone and you're distanced a bit from those emotions, you're more willing to be direct and blunt and honest. I'd have to read the book to determine whether or not the character should actually have that characterization or not, but I can say right now that I have, recently, had times where I admitted the direct emotion someone made me feel to someone I was close with and trusted.
The first novel I ever read was called "La musique des choses" (the music of things) by Maryse Pelletier. Vincent is a young man slowly leaving his childhood behind as his body, his legs and his arms keeps on growing; his hands reach farther and farther keys on the piano. The more he grows, the more he plays, the more Vincent reminds his mother of his late father. As he begins to want to know more about the latter, he receives a phone call from an old lady with answers to give... a lady claiming to be his estranged paternal grandmother. Formidable story for preteens and young adults. Anyway, his piano teacher tells him about the subtext in musical piece, also called "the music of things," and the story follows Vincent has he tries to understand his changing world and discover the music of things in all his surroundings. Love it.
I don't have time or money to go to school yet for writing, so these videos have helped me grow and develop my works soo much I created a playlist to easily come back to the videos I know I'll want/need. If I don't get the books for Christmas I'm buying them myself. I love your work and Im sure many others do too, what you do is incredible and I'm very thankful
Tim I would absolutely LOVE to listen to you talk about Hannibal: I saw a video on subtext and just knew you'd have to bring the show up. There is so much subtext PACKED into the smallest scenes it's insane.
Point 3, man, backed up by your personal experience answering a hotline? AMAZING SHIZ. Like, that's exactly what "Write what you know" is meant to tap into! That everyone brings something personal to the table when they talk. Not to downplay all the research and reading and study you've done, but that direct first-person experience is invaluable, and I trust it so much more than the collected and regurgitated knowledge of other writers, other stories, etc. I already kiiiinda knew most of the other points - there was more than I thought, but I was in the right ballpark - but point 3? I'll remember that part the most keenly of all, because of the real world experience you brought to it.
Arcane is excellent in using subtext. The first scene with Silco and Jinx in episode 4 comes to mind. There is SO MUCH to unpack in just that one scene. The character's tone of voice, their body language, and even the props they interact with, all communicate information that has nothing to do with what the characters are saying, but is just as vital to understanding the story. Arcane is a masterpiece.
James Bryant burst into the room brimming with rage. He looked to his left and immediately launched his right fist towards the nearest structure, a wall, sending tiny bits of plaster flying across the room. He slowly drug his now slightly bloody hand from the wall. I could use a bandage, he murmured begrudgingly.
A furious James Bryant burst into the room and planted his fist into the nearest wall. Plaster bits flew all over. He recovered his now blodied hand and stared at it begrudgingly. It would need a bandage.
This comment is super late, so I don't know if anyone is reading it. But one great example of subtext done well is a Thai queer rom com show i recently watched called Bad Buddy. It is a rom com on the surface, but the depth of emotion and conflict in it is very well portrayed. There is so much to read between the lines, when it comes to queer struggles, friendship, parental expectations and acceptance etc. and it all comes together beautifully. So much of what you said reminded me of the show.
I always fear that I have too much subtext. I have a large history built up from my characters that is important to who they are and how they interact with the other characters. I know this is not uncommon, but I have so much trouble writing enough information about these characters within a scene without info-dumping, while also not trying to keep my readers in the dark. I know these characters, I just don't know how to introduce them.
It might help to start with separating the faces they put on for thier everyday lives. What would a complete stranger who is meeting them for the first time see in the books world. Then try to sort out thier deeper character traits into a more organized list of facets that you can take your time introducing in different scenes. Start with only one or two of the most important in thier introduction.
Yeah it is a problem for me too so I came up with a hint method (I am by no means a good writer, at least not yet and sorry if this will be lengthy reply just sharing my solution) basically do not write info dump at all instead reveal one relevant information and hint at something deeper I used to the point flashbacks and dialogue To illustrate in my story one of the Main characters is a captain of the ship with troubled past specifically he was dumped by his parents in the orphanage and grew up in the hostile environment, but of course he won't be telling about it to anyone so the way I did it is by giving hints about it like him having small stature due to maulnurishment, scars from fights and cooking his own food since he does not trust others after a girl in the orphanage slid a razor into his food, injuring him I conveyed this information by having a scene where he refuses to accept his friends food after which friend asks: why do you refuse? He says: I am not hungry sorry He leaves saying to himself in the inner monologue: I do not trust enough to taste your cooking. Not after what that bi*ch did So chapter ends and the next one starts with the flashback to the day that girl pulled the trick on him and saying afterwards: You are so dumb no wonder noone wants to adopt you (which tells us that he was in the orphanage at the time) After that we return to the present and continue until next hint brings another flashback until all backstory is revealed and two narratives join into one Hope this will help you somehow
@@Докторпарадокс I like this advice. I tried something similar. There's a time jump of a couple months that the main character experiences, though he doesn't know how long it's been. The first time it's brought up is when they end up at a cozy in where the innkeeper is willing to board them so long as she gets some context on their mysterious arrival and the mc's travelling companions. MC being withheld in who he tells what only gives a vague explanation, not satisfied the innkeeper presses for more info saying something like "what have you been doing the past 8 months? The world has changed " which shakes up the mc, seeing his reaction to the news the innkeeper relents sensing some serious trauma. Later on the Mc reunites with a character they have history with and they trust to some degree, this is where the mc feels more comfortable giving some more context on what they've been doing during the time skip. Instead of blurting it all out at the first prompt I introduced another opportunity with someone they knew and trust (to a degree) to build on the readers understanding of those events in a way that I felt didn't compromise the character and to break up the exposition dumps into organic moments
I like that this seems to be a more informational expansion on the "show don't tell" advice everyone gives. So often, I can tell that telling rather than showing is the problem with something without really being able to articulate why or how to improve. Thank you
I really appreciate you spelling this out because I couldn't understand his accent. I had to turn on CC, and youtube's autogenerated captions printed "tortured". Then when I looked for "sci fi series tortured", I was disappointed when there were no results. Thank you for this.
You know what? Thank you for these videos and this series man. I'm a noob writer and I've watched way more videos about writing guidelines and conventions than I'd like to admit, and literally all of them are" DON'T do this" and "DON'T do that" and I'm left wondering "Okay, so what the hell CAN I do!?". It's refreshing to watch something for once that actually tries to give examples and insight into these things. So thank you, again.
Then how should we do it? I personally would know if I'm lying. I don't want others to be convinced I am telling them an intentional mistruth if I try to summarize my feelings at some point. I admit being concrete with feelings is often difficult because in the short term they are ever-shifting. In the long term, some things really do seem concrete to me. For example, thinking about the 9/11terror attacks(at least the attacks themselves) makes me sad, no two ways about it.
@@noway8259 that's the thing. You *think* you know, but our biases are most invisible to ourselves, and it's often at the end of a character's development that they can deconstruct themselves enough to understand and express feelings. So no, unless it's a mentor character or some sort of foil to your protagonist, it's not recommended to have them always know exactly why and how their feeling things, and even if they can, they shouldn't be able to express it perfectly either. And EVEN IF THEY CAN EXPRESS IT, it doesn't mean that the other character will understand. Humans are nuanced. Dialogue should reflect that
it could make you angry when you realize the government not only allowed it but weaponized it to enrich US corporations at the cost of even more human life.
An amazing use of subtext I saw in early Game of Thrones on a rewatch was with Tywin and Arya. Tywin is talking about his father, who nearly ruined the entire house of Lannister. Tywin called him a good man, but a weak man. His eyes glaze over and he absently stares into the fire. This is not the cold and calculated expression we've seen on Tywin before. The subtext comes in when Tywin says "I'm cold." He *never* displays any vulnerability. Normally, Tywin would have said "Bring more wood for the fire." But instead he, without realising, subtly admits to weakness in front of Arya (his servant at the time). Seeing that, you get a glimpse of the man underneath the iron wall that is Tywin Lannister. Deep down he wishes he could have loved his father more, but their relationship was ruined because Tywin lost all respect for him.
I feel like dialogue is one of the things that many young writers struggle with the most, so thanks for providing specific examples that go beyond the generic "show don't tell" tip.
while watching this and while you were talking about the different ways subtext can be used you had 5 things, Dynamic, Thematic, Character, Hidden thoughts, and Implication. I think the easiest way to remember these all is to throw them in a DITCH! just a simple acronym that puts them all together
Just as an interesting aside: Sometimes, it could make for a really powerful scene when you choose to bring all subtext to the fore at the opportune time. The example that popped into my head was the scene in Lincoln, where Daniel Day Lewis delcares: "I am the President of the United States of America, clothed in enormous power..." It works so well in that particular scene because it effectively removes all nuance, stamping his authority over his council. In this case, the character says out loud what the characters and audience expect to be said through subtext.
as I recall one of the only legal (and quite popular) ways to get booze during prohibition was as an ingredient in medicine. to such an extent that people made 'medicine' that was essentially just alcohol and doctors could be convinced to prescribe it. so, owning a large number of drug stores also has some implications as a response to bootlegging allegations.
I have no idea why this video appeared in my feed, but I'm glad it did. I'm working on a comedy script for a project and I realized while watching this video that a lot of--or perhaps all comedy is subtext. The punchline is not the joke, but rather the line which leads you to it. For example, in the famous Monty Python's dead parrot sketch, the joke is not that the parrot is dead or the number of ways you can say "dead" if you read a thesaurus, it's the way in which Cleese's character channels his understandable frustration and anger into prim and proper British etiquette that simultaneously impresses and shows the limitations of politeness. And the shopkeeper's insistence of unreasonable arrangements, the joke being about how the shopkeeper is invested in making deals, not empathizing with or understanding his customers. And, I think this also explains why many comedies are just entirely unfunny. Jay Exci recently did a number of videos discussing Netflix comedies and the complaint about why they're so unfunny often boils down to how characters have two personality traits, like being old and horny, and then every joke is about how this person is old--but that's not all... wait for it--they're also horny. The subtext being that they're old and horny. Get it? And finally, I think this is why jokes get less funny when you have to explain them. You're removing the subtext. In highschool, I though up this terrible and maybe slightly problematic joke: How did Pythagoras like his legs? ... Equalateral. I found that when I told someone this joke and then had to explain Pythagoras' theorem and the difference between equilateral and isosceles, they'd never laugh, but I could maybe get a chuckle out of others. But there's also this classic programmer's joke that computer scientists will find especially funny, but I think others should find funny, too: There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
The Sopranos is incredibly guilty of explicitly calling attention to subtextual themes and symbols, mostly through the therapist character. It's a little frustrating to feel proud of figuring out why Tony did something or dreamt something, only for it to be explained in straightforward terms a few scenes later.
I feel like that kinda works though, as with the therapy scenes we the viewer get to see Tony himself try and rationalize these dreams and what they mean to him. How they affect him.
Thanks for the extra tool in my kit. Or at least reminding me how important I found it to be. I've dropped so many novels for this exact reason. Another problem with ignoring subtext is that you end up with dialogue that spoils any twist. Be too heavy handed and the plot points disintegrate. The mysteries are readily apparent, the twist events long foreshadowed, character flaws and the consequences easily predictable. The more details you forcibly explain the more clues you hand out. My point is that subtext always exists, but funnily enough trying to remove it only exacerbates it to the extreme. The reason you hate writings with "little subtext" is that it is actually overinflated subtext which becomes redundant or it spoils the story by giving away all the key clues, not just handing you a list but highlighting for anything extra important.
First of all great video Tim. Personally found this video particularly helpful and interesting. As someone with autism unless I'm going out of my way to look for subtext in my reading I'll completely blank out on all of it. Can't wait for the live-stream.
You know, I don’t really understand what the big deal about The Great Gatsby is. Everyone jumps to say how deep and philosophical it is, but have you ever heard how it was written? It was written in like a week without any draft or planning, submitted on the first draft, before the author moved on to his next rushed book. And the literal only reason it became popular wasn’t due to its remarkable storytelling or quality. The book actually was a failure, but during WW2 it was chosen as one of the books to be mass produced and sent to soldiers due solely to how short it was, and it’s depiction of grand partying, meant to raise soldiers’ morale, which defibrillated its popularity. There is nothing special about this book that sets it apart, it isn’t even a particularly good book, it was just randomly chosen to be that one book from the twenties that anybody actually remembers. And now highschool students will have to be tortured by it until the end of time.
Hmmm, well there really isn’t a big deal about gatsby. Many are asked to read it in school for probably some of the same reasons you mentioned above for the soldiers. So even if it’s not a masterpiece, which I can agree it is not, its still a good talking point with fairly simple language and story which many people are familiar with. It’s not terrible or anything though. You’ve clearly got some beef with it- I think it’s okay to make reference to sub-par writing. Lovecraft for example has a lot of what I’d consider flops (there are a few good ones of course)- this not even influenced by how racist they are. I still think they are worth talking about and examining even if only for the fact that it, for better or for worse, heavily influenced many future writers.
Personally, I love The Great Gatsby, mostly for its writing style. Each to his own, I guess. 🤷♀️ It does seem like a weird choice to send to soldiers though. The key plot is about a soldier who goes to war and then returns to find the woman he hoped was waiting for him had run off and married somebody else. Not exactly morale-boosting.
As a Brit living in New Zealand, can confirm your accent was 110% on point. Also i feel the film adaptation of Child 44 was able to communicate the subtext pretty well, but I've not read the book to compare them and now I'm not sure if i want to 🤣
This has been an incredibly helpful video! Thank you so much! Lindybeige, while rarely if ever calling it "subtext," goes in-depth on some forms of subtext in a video he did on making comic books dramatic. It's about a year old. (i.e. late 2022) Tim, what i love about your American accent (Puget Sound boy here) is that you own its badness in the most endearing and funny way possible, and by that I mean your SUBTEXT, not just your invitation to mock. If you were trying for a Southern accent, well, you're not alone, most Antipodeans and Southwestern British have great difficulty with the Southern accents, perhaps because of their regional variety and relative similarity to older British accents. But you fluctuate widely between Old South High Society (Hollywood version) and Trans-Atlantic. This is a pretty relatable problem, as both are almost entirely heard today in old films. One trick that I was surprised to see Dr. Geoff Lindsey uncharacteristically failing, recently, is to get the "urr" sound right, for the region and class, as in "cERtain." Oh. Right. This video is two years old. Oh, well! I had 4 more points, but, whatever. Nobody's going to read this.
Great video, I do have one minor nitpick which may be localized to the US. When you mention kids shows and subtext at 20:45 you mention that kids are spoonfed morals because they don't understand subtext. In shows made in the US it is because of a legal loophole that requires programming to be educational. Often there is no moral in the show itself and instead the moral is tacked on at the end to fit this loophole in the law. The show Animaniacs is both a perfect example of this and also serves as a subversion of this same idea.
23:57 35000 copies of your first book? Man, I'm so happy for you that this works out as such a huge success. I've been following your series for I don't remember how many years and to see you grow gives me a feeling of... proud I think. I don't know how else to describe it. Is that weird? I don't know, but I'm not even ashamed of it either. Thank you again for yet another amazing video on subjects I am both struggling with but equally enjoying to learn. You've made it much easier for me to understand.
Honestly I'm kind of mixed feelings on this, an overreliance on subtext has often led to seeing a lot of people not just misinterpret a scene's meaning and themes, but not interpet them at all, to the point that I'm not sure it's always worth keeping things subtle for more media literate readers who've studied writing or filmmaking. Audience participation and interpretation can happen subconsciously, but it's a little too easy for a reader to just passively consume and disregard what was in fact a key scene. For example in Genshin Impact I see a lot of the discourse completely miss the point of scenes where themes are meant to be inferred rather than directly stated, such as Ayaka's character quest that have me questioning if as a writer, particularly for a mass audience, it may be better to simply be more overt and lay the cards on the table more clearly if the alternative is that a big chunk of the players take no meaning from the scene otherwise. They'll still choose to take their own interpretation, but at least from the starting point of a better understanding of what it is they even saw.
Yeah, i felt weird when HFM omitted the word “arrested” in that rewritten dialogue, for example. Sounds like she didn’t get the full information across, and i wouldn’t imply what she meant at all.
Good subtext is like wearing an expensive watch. You don't flash it in everyones faces and some people might not even notice it - and that's fine. Those who do, will appreciate it for what it is. Good style.
I wouldn't get a lot of this, I just don't read like that. And when I'm talking to people, I'm constantly frustrated by people not just saying what they mean. Through great effort I've learned that mom saying "The dishwasher is a bit full," really means "I want one of you to run the dishwasher," but that took me fifteen years. Those two versions of the scene from child 44 you read off? Had pretty much an identical impact on me, though I'll admit that's probably at least in part due to me having no prior familiarity with the characters, but I can't really say how much of a part that is.
I can very much relate to what you wrote in your comment. I'm autistic. Almost all of us seem to have the literal-mindedness that you described. Here's an example of when I've missed subtext: I took a Linguistics 101 course, and we were learning about language acquisition in children. The textbook gave an example of subtext that most children notice. If you answer the phone, and the person on the other end says, "Is [so-and-so] there?", it is an indirect way of saying, "I want to talk to [so-and-so]. Please give [so-and-so] the phone so I can talk to them." According to the textbook, most 5-year-old children know this -- even if no one has ever directly explained it to them. I'd had no idea that it was an indirect request. I was very surprised. If someone asked me, "Is so-and-so there?", I would answer the question -- "yes", "no", "I don't know, I'll check...", etc. If I answered "yes", there would be silence. Then the other person would say something like, "...Can I talk to them?" I'd say "yes" and I'd give the phone to [so-and-so]. Now that I know that they were giving me an indirect request, I understand that the silence was probably an awkward silence. Oops... When I was a kid, I sometimes got in trouble because I misinterpreted instructions. People thought I was pretending to misunderstand them. But that doesn't happen as much anymore. People who know me well, know that I don't pretend to misunderstand. They know that I mean what I say and I say what I mean. You might be autistic. I strongly recommend researching it. Autism shows up differently in different people. There are lots of traits that many autistic people have, but which not all autistic people have. For example, many autistic people dislike it when other people touch them -- but I don't mind. In fact, I like warm hugs! I have sensory sensitivity, but some autistic people don't. But almost all of us seem to have the literal-mindedness that you described. I hope this comment is helpful and/or interesting.
@@JeshikaKazeno Oh i know I'm autistic, I'm fairly high functioning as it goes, but yeah, I can understand in an objective sense that people often aren't literal, but it always takes some asking of effort to interpret that, and when I'm just reading something for entertainment it doesn't come through. I've also got one of the manifestations of touch sensitivity, notably, my sensory adaptation abilities are impaired. Most people gradually lose conscious awareness of persistent stimuli, their brains filter it out as unimportant, things like the sensation of the clothes you're wearing, or the frames of glasses in the edge of your vision, but my brain either doesn't do that, or does so to a much lesser extent, which tends to result in very fidgety behavior, because I never stop feeling my clothes, I can get comfortable, but I'm constantly aware, so if I'm actually doing anything, even just sitting in a chair in class taking notes, that movement is enough to mess with the comfortable equilibrium and make me have to adjust them. I have the eye contact issue as a double whammy because of my vision problems, even with my glasses I can't really clearly see someone's eyes unless we're within about five or six feet, thigh looking at someone's face is usually enough to get the effect.
One of the best cases of subtext I've ever read was a Metal Gear fanfic called Crash Text. (I got so enamored with it I translated it into English.) The two characters almost never spell anything out, and neither does the PoV character's internal monologue. The plot is basically a road trip gone on too long for reasons beyond their control, promping mutual introspection. And yet it's so rich and human and sympathetic, because this is how real people who know each other a little too well for comfort would really talk.
I've been called, more than once, a man without subtext. I've never understood not saying what you mean and not knowing what you feel. I guess it makes me wooden or something but I've always just stated my feelings plainly. Burned through a bunch of pyschs because they refused to believe me. It's awful. Figure your shit out and say it.
Stating your feelings plainly isn't always the best course of action though. I'm most people I've encountered who pride themselves on "speaking plainly" (or even worse being "brutally honest") come across as massive arseholes. People are also great at fooling themselves maybe you legitimately know everything you are feeling but maybe sometime you are just fooling yourself or at least not open to the fact you might be wrong or feelings may be more complex or go deeper. It's quite funny that you bemoan how all these experts are wrong and how bad that was, maybe you were the problem, maybe you were wrong but are so convienced in the infallibility of you proclaimed self awareness you can't see it.
@@101Mant well they all insisted I had to have been sexually abused or something like that and they were wrong. Just grew up poor with people who spoke half truths. It's not that experts are wrong. It's that Americans dont listen.
It’s just not always smart. If Michael had told Hymen Roth “I think you tried to have me assasinated” he would have been killed quickly. But he stated “I think Frankie pentangeli tried to have me killed” He diverted the attention.
@anjetto1 you might want to check out the channel "Asperger's from the Inside". Having no subtext, being honest and then other people not believing you are all signs of Asperger's. Also it presents similar to PTSD without any prior trauma. Subtext is typical human behavior and so someone always telling the whole truth really throws people off their step.
I'm only now noticing how much writing for my friends in middle school screwed the way I think about writing. I remember very clearly the very first story I wrote to completion. It wasn't very good, granted, but it was written in 3rd person from the perspective of the main character, the entire time. At some point, the MC is taken out of the world. The entire story had taken place in our world with our rules, and she had just been pulled out of it for the first time in her life. I felt it was interesting to switch perspectives then, to one of her friends that stayed on earth, instead of jumping straight into her. I haven't gone back to read it in a long time, I'm sure it was not well achieved at the time but I still think it's a cool idea. What my readers at the time told me, though, stayed much more ingrained than it really should have. That I couldn't do it like that, that it was confusing. That I had to spell it out. "What writers usually do is write that the POV has changed at the start of the page" was the exact words they used. That was very odd for me, and I did not pay much mind because I'd read books before and they never did that. But what that taught me was that I could not trust my readers... If I'd been told that now, I'd still find it very odd, but I'd recognize that 1. it came from the fact my friend only read fanfiction but 2. and more importantly, that my point was not coming across clearly enough. I did not have to spell it out, but I did have to find a way to work it better. These videos help me realize things about my own writing and demystify concepts I hadn't even realized were so ingrained in my writing process, as well as give me new tools to work with. And for that I am thankful. TL;DR: love ur videos !!
It is worth noting that there were a fair number of books around aimed at older kids and young teens, when I was the right age to be their target audience, that DID label point of view changes like that. ... Well, sort of like that. Less the start of the page and more the start of the chapter. Still, it was a thing. Just literally the character's name in a different font immediately after the chapter heading.
@@gormitivsastro Wonder is a middle grade book that does exactly this and people STILL got confused by the perspective shifts because idk, monolingual English speakers are just hopeless I guess.
I'm not always good at spotting subtext, so it's good when someone points it out. I don't mean someone in the film/book going "oh you mean to say...", but some youtube video, or essay, teaches me by showing how it was done. an example of this is the Pulp Fiction scene when they get the case and kill the thieves. When I watched it it was just a fun scene with some exposition, funny dialogue, and character building. The I watched a video explaining the subtext of controlling the interaction. Not just by waving guns, but also by interrupting someone talking, taking their things, and the timing of one execution just as the other person is trying to gain control of the conversation. The way they showed how that subtext works made me realise that even though I hadn't noticed it at the time it still shaped how I experienced the scene because it flowed so well.
Some people use Subtext, some people don't. By that, I mean some Characters in the story might not act exactly the same way as others. At the very least, I can say with some certainty that I rarely use Subtext in my real-life dialogue. I recently started writing a character who almost doesn't speak at all. Mostly just grunts, groans, maybe says one or two words. It's 3rd person though, so at least I can write some of the character's thoughts outside the dialogue. No, wait, am I using subtext right now in this comment?
As much as I love Frank Herbert’s Dune series, I think he’s pretty heavy handed when it comes to his thematic subtext. Every few dozen pages, whether in thought italics or in dialogue, at least one character goes into some super heady existential analysis-except, Herbert’s characters’ self awareness within their story is what gives their actions and decisions so much weight.
I'm genuinely happy this lawyer decided to make a career out of enlightening us to writing and the world of writing in a fun digestible way. Thank you, Tim! Sorry for saying (thinking) NZ was part of Australia on twitter.
This has been incredibly difficult to understand information, and at the same time, it was very easy to understand. I feel like understanding the basics is easy, but mastering it takes a lot of time and effort... Thank you for that video! I love using subtext, so I hope I'll use it correctly and adequately
This is true. Even if in fiction having internal monologues and behaviors you need to pay attention to literally spelled out for you it becomes a lot easier to understand, it can be really hard to write it in if you're just not programed to pick these sorts of things up is real life. Still it's kind of funny to think about it: Neurotypical people seeing a subtextless exchange: oh god, I am so uncomfortable... Certain neurodivergant people seeing it: FUCKING THANK YOU. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LOST I WAS. THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Kind of makes me laugh to think of that playing out. We are immune to the cringe and in fact crave that level of honesty, lol.
I really wish English lessons were taught like this. GCSE English actually made me stop reading but your videos have inspired me to discover books again over the past year
Talking about introspective writing, growing as people, themes and character development while Power Rangers fight scenes play in the background is such a power move xD
Nevermind the accent, why was there a super sentai combat scene in the middle of talking about thematic subtext!? ....could it be... that this video has subtext I didn't catch? 😨
Here’s a question. Is it possible to have too much subtext? I re-read a lot of my dialogue and most sections have subtext underlying them. However, my first chapter has, like, a lot of it, and my editors didn’t seem to catch all of it. The important parts got through but some of the interesting character manipulation information seemed lost until I told them.
I think that rather than too much or little there is just your style, with layers. And, while it's hard, you have to accept that some things will be missed by some people - or even most people - but not everyone! For an example, it astonished me after reading Hunger Games that people thought Katniss just "went crazy" instead of taking steps to prevent a copy of Snow from taking control of the country. Even after it was laid out so clearly - both the personality and actions of Snow 2.0 and that Katniss was acting with a plan in mind - there was still a large chunk of the fanbase that didn't pick up on ANY of it. It's a little sad but it is also true to real life, so it's hard to get around....
I agree with Keltaryn that it depends largely on your style. I would argue that it is very difficult to add too much subtext into a story unless it obscures the enjoyment of the story on the first read. What's cool about stories with a lot of subtext is that it makes the story better on the second or even the third read/watch/listen. If you can make the story enjoyable the first time through, then no, it's impossible to have too much subtext. Note: your fanbase will be split about how much of the character interaction was actually put there by you, the author, as intentional subtext. Some fans will argue that the others are "overthinking everything". Be aware and prepared to deal with that controversy if you do put that much depth into your story.
A good example of subtext for people to study is "Hills Like White Elephants" by Ernest Hemingway. You are thrust into the middle of a vague argument that you don't get to see the actual conclusion of. The entire conversation between these two characters is subtext and is rather fun to try to unpack, even if the realization is less fun. 0_0
I love writing emotions, and I really like how you rewrite some scenes to make them more enjoyable emotionally. Great video, as usual! Looking forward to buy one of your books :)
The dirty secret is that most people hate subtext. It makes them feel dumb and confused. I've known people who watched daytime soaps and hallmark movies and I couldn't stand to be in the same room while they were on. The writing was that terrible. Then I realized it was terrible by design. People watch that stuff because it's their fantasy to live in a world where people say literally everything they think.
![On Writing: Dialogue Basics! [ Sanderson | Game of Thrones | His Dark Materials ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ecEuw8usnDM/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Dialogue Basics! [ Sanderson | Game of Thrones | His Dark Materials ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: The Darkest Hour Trope [ Avatar | LOTR | Doctor Who ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c2S7zjfs0aU/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Great Character Descriptions! [ Rowling | Dragon Tattoo | Gatsby | Pratchett ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vL0q15Kkews/mqdefault.jpg)
Two things! [1] Reward y'self with On Writing and Worldbuilding Vol II linktr.ee/timhickson and [2] Nine points to anyone who remembers the 24HR CHARITY LIVESTREAM 10th DEC 4PM EST. We will be raising money for Safe Harbour, who provide a refuge to people of all genders escaping abuse. Covid, lockdowns, and isolation have meant people have been locked in with their abusers, leading to increased risk of suicide and elsewise, and these services are a vital escape. I'm glad to see the money going to them. Stay safe!
~ Tim
sorry tim, but I lke your videos better
I just wanted to point out you picked Makos Birthday (December 10th) for your charity live stream. Also Tim your an amazing person and I love your channel 😄
"All three seasons of Torchwood". #ShotsFired #illTakePoint #TeamTim
Nice Oops I mean not nice for the people who can't trust the people they're meant to trust but hopefully, it helps as many people as possible. (:
I have a question: how do you name your characters?
“You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! THAT MAKES ME ANGRY!”
I wish I made this joke.
~ Tim
" *A* *N* *I* *M* *E* "
I love that show.
What's this quote from?
@@afellownerd I think futurerama
I love it when characters are mature enough to discuss what is normally subtext in their conversations but then there's another layer of subtext underneath it.
I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate? Do you have an example? Do you mean that the characters understand their own feelings and are able to convey them, but there is thematic subtext, or something different?
There's a scene in my current piece of writing where two people are arguing, and one of them breaks something. But then they both stop, stare at the broken thing, and talk to each other about how emotionally screwed-up they are instead.
Their ability to admit this implies that they have a very good relationship, as they can be honest about deep emotional stuff with each other.
@@orngjce223I know I'm a guy a year into the future but I would like to say that your writing is amazing. If you don't mind me asking, do you write for fun or are you in a career in which you do so?
@@XlWolfMaster I write fanfiction as a hobby. I mean, I won't tell you exactly which ones because that would become very awkward very quickly, but I treat fandom kind of like a writers circle, where you show each other your stuff and get both praise and critique. In particular, certain types of relationship development require a skilled and delicate hand to come off as entertaining rather than confusing and cringeworthy, and skill in scene pacing and description generalizes out of that arena surprisingly well.
@@orngjce223 I admire your willingness to commit to your standards, and it sounds pretty professional by what you have told me. How long have you been writing roughly?
7:20 As the robot devil put it: "You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"
Now I know why my dialogue always sounds so heavy-handed. I'm hard at reading subtext in real life as well so I seem to leave it out in fiction too lol
I also had a lot of problems with it. One thing that helped a lot was trying to input any subtext I already knew in the stories (like "when someone says they wish you good luck they're probably not going to activelly help you", and such).
That helped a lot to understand when it can be put, and how much you can twist words and still have It. After that things become easier in the writing Side of things (I'm still bad at IRL subtext... There's some progress but it's like from -10 to -6).
Yeah, sarcasm probably flying over my head
@@valhatan3907 LOL what kinda writer struggles with sarcasm? It's so easy, everyone and their dog can understand it. A child could write sarcasm.
(That was sarcasm. I too struggle a lot with sarcasm.)
@@ExploreImagineDefineCreate I fell for that so hard lol. I love vocal sarcasm, I probably use it too much, but I think everyone has a hard time with written sarcasm at least sometimes
I always assume everyone else is as block-headed as I am, so I need to make everything obvious as all hell.
If Daniel Craig suddenly dies, they can just cast you for the Knives Out sequel. ❤
Daniel Craig's accent in Knives Out is a stress test for suspension of disbelief, and I failed
@@paul_warner Are you kidding?! His accent was the best part of that movie!
Yes (: I was the 69th like of your comment
@@a.morphous66 well it wasn't a terrific movie but how can you say the rest of it was even worse than his accent?
@@paul_warner what do you mean? It’s a great movie! And watching it a second time gave me a completely different experience than the first
One thing I'd add though, is that lack of emotional subtext can be subtext in itself. I've found that people who aren't used to being expressive or struggle with emotional honesty can end up using blunt or bland descriptors when trying to explain themselves to other people. They might not be entirely accurate with it, but it can show the first steps and struggle.
Here's my thoughts on your accent:
The accent you were going for was an upper-class Southern accent that you don't really hear all that often anymore. There used to be two variations of Southern accents (generally speaking, of course, as there were also countless regional variations), but these days they've slowed merged into one. Your accent was a decent imitation of an accent that would have been accurate for both the socioeconomic status and the time period--but not the region, as The Great Gatsby takes place in New York, not the American South.
That being said, it was still a much better job of that specific accent than I'll ever be able to do of a New Zealand accent!
Daisy is from the south though
@@Adam-ds1ik True! I had forgotten about that, but it doesn't account for the other voices in the scene
As a Louisvillian (as is fictional fellow Kentuckian Daisy) & a proud Southerner, I say not bad for only knowing our sound from the media. What drawl we still have is softer & more subtle to most ears.
You seem to be going for a “Deep South” accent, which we don’t have here in the northernmost portion of the American South. It’s quite entertaining to hear you give your listeners the full “Foghorn Leghorn”. I’ve heard several actors say (including your fellow Kiwi, Lucy Lawless) a New Zealander can do a Southeastern US accent more easily than many others.
Thank all y’all for the fun in another quality video essay.
I recommend listening to the spoken word poetry of Wendell Berry to hear what an educated Kentuckian of a certain age sounds like.
(This has been edited for more correctness in grammar… though I simply cannot bring myself to cease using the pronoun y’all when advocating for the glories of the true Southern voice.)
Yeah I’ve never heard this accent in my home town in TX but I have heard a similar accent in Louisiana when I visit my friend.
louisiana here, the accent was spot on upper class antebellum deep south (like louisiana)
Your American accent was interesting, it gave us a little tour of the country. This is super helpful, it's making me reevaluate what has been kind of irking me about my own writing and what I've been really enjoying with this current book I'm reading. Thanks again for another great video!
His American accent damaged my ears.
Now I finally know how Brits feel hearing me accidentally mashup Cockney, Geordie, and Yorkshire accents into one monstrous “accent.”
I once collaborated with an aspiring writer on a project, and we reached an impasse about the use of subtext. I thought it was necessary, indeed the whole point of story. He saw it as a roadblock to the accessibility of the story. Why develop themes or characterization at all if not everyone reading the story will pick them up? But this really clarified for me the point of subtext. For my collaborator, the most important thing was absolute control, to ensure everything he wanted the story to be was shoveled into the head of the reader.
To me, subtext was the space you make for the reader. It turns a one-sided form of communication into a dialog. When the reader must puzzle together the unspoken truths of the story, it allows them not just to passively absorb, but actively participate. It turns out, audience participation is a crucial part of all art. Without it, it's not art, just attempted propaganda, trying to force the reader to think and feel a certain way by telling them what the story means. And most people rebel at that. No one wants to be told how to think.
In fact, I've noticed when a story that tries to spell out what it means, we tend to go looking for an alternate meaning that is hidden between the lines. And usually, we find one. Because even if it's unintended, subtext is always there. The purpose of a story is for the author to convey what they believe. And much of what we believe is unconscious. So an author's unconscious beliefs permeate their stories in ways they aren't even aware of. The harder an author tries to control the meaning of a story, the more naked those unconscious beliefs become, as readers instinctually focus on whatever is left unspoken. For those who dismiss subtext, like our friend Garth Marenghi, what they don't intend to reveal tells us far more than what they think they're trying to explain.
How can you say he wanted control and accessibility in the same breath and not realize that he wasn't about telling the reader what to think, he was about communicating to the reader what the characters think? You literally assigned him a motivation by yourself because you read into it, thereby converting his intentions from good to bad by ignoring what was actually said. I pity your collaborator! He spelled it out to you and you still missed the point.
@@azdajajeanne Well, for what it's worth, you don't know him like I did :)
But I see your point. In real life, it's all too easy to apply one's own narrative onto a situation instead of seeing it from other people's perspective and trying to understand their narrative. I've had to learn to step back and not force my narrative on others. But I think that applies to writing too. In stories, you can explain what happens and what people are thinking, but you have to let readers decide the meaning for themselves. Characters can have an interpretation, but it should say more about the character than the true meaning of the story itself.
In my opinion, if you explain to the reader what you want your story to mean, you're trying to control the reader, tell them how to think. My collaborator was putting the actual meaning of the story in the main character's mouth, rather than letting the reader work it out for themselves, exactly like the characters in that passage from the book Child 44 in the video. What's the point of even telling a story at all if you're just going to explain what it meant anyway? If they ended the Matrix with the Oracle explaining all the double-meanings behind her riddles, it would ruin the character, and spoil the experience of the story. And that's exactly what my friend wanted to do.
If you watch Star Trek Discovery it’s a show without subtext.
@@JonathanJK That was my complaint about Star Trek Next Generation back when it first aired, that the subtext of each story and each character was deliberately explained, as though the show was its own academic analysis. Despite several episodes and topics sounding interesting, nothing I've seen of the show since has contradicted that first impression in the slightest.
My friends who love the show remind me that this is by design, that it's supposed to directly state its themes and ideologies so that there can be no mistaking them (If only that was all it took.)
I still haven't seen Discovery, but it's possible that the big backlash isn't that it's different from previous Star Trek, but that the audience has changed, as a group and, to some degree, as individuals. The same messages and themes once embraced in the older shows are now met with resistance. I have no doubt that, were Star Trek TNG to debut in this day and age, it would meet the exact same criticisms.
@@rottensquid You haven't seen it, it's very different in narrative and characterisations. The level headed backlash is against telling us the issue instead of showing us.
I kind of want you to watch it and then you'll know, but another part of me doesn't want you to waste your time. It doesn't even question its own changed premise in season 3. It's utterly devoid of imagination, it says nothing of the human condition other than pay lip service to trauma. Where classic trek brought us tablet devices and holodecks and transporters. Discovery tells us that pronouns are still something to teach to others (especially gay men) against a back drop of different aliens and their cultures.
I laughed pretty hard at "funded by Big Dialogue" 🤣
Missing out on subtext is the one thing I'm absolutely terrified of when it comes to my writing. Usually I just let my characters talk in their voices when I'm arranging dialog, but the need of adding subtext makes me feel like I have to be way more conscious than I'm. This video actually helped me to gain some confidence because I already did it naturally. However, I'll go back and get rid of all (or most) the clear statements about the emotions in play. Once again, thank you for a great video!
A basic rule of thumb is, if your beta readers get back to you & go, "Your dialog is too on the nose" or "People are too direct / too obvious" it usually means you're lacking sub-text.
The line “I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards” is from Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace. It’s on TH-cam, and it’s one of the greatest shows of all time.
Oh yes, but only because its such a masterpiece of a terrible show (and relies entirely on subtext, come fight me)
Maybe it's the neurodivergence in me, but I actually like when some things are spelled out, when characters communicate clearly what they mean or what's important to them. I get so annoyed in shows when they tease at conflicts that never clearly conclude, or don't get addressed in healthy ways.
I still think subtext is critical in stories, but I will continue to try to write characters who don't *only just* suggest what they want, need, or feel.
I love the idea of a character who's used to talking in subtext only
going through an arc that ends with them being able to comfortably express what they really need to in order to like
patch up a misunderstanding with
or apologize to
character b
in a healthy way
like
yass
overcome those boundaries
reach that connecting point that allows the two of you to understand each other rather than assuming that character b will pick up on your cryptic wordss
do that healthy, straightforward communicationnn wooo
Oh yeh! A lot of my stories focus on challenging biases through healthy communication, so I often push subtext to the side for stuff like that. My most recent work focuses on that and then the inverse.
@@beanbrain6162 I just wrote an entire book of exactly this. If you're interested, I might narrate it after I get out of editing hell.
@@Skyisgoingbacktopluto Aww man
ooh
sounds awesome!
I'd love to hear it
Good luck getting out of editing hell!
@@beanbrain6162 it will take AGES!!!!
oh man, what you said about people fixating on small things when in a crisis is so true and i can’t believe i never realized it. i volunteered at a sexual and domestic violence hotline, and CONSTANTLY clients would call in sobbing over one “small” thing. i’ve had clients call in after testifying in court against an abuser/ rapist not because of the triggering testimony, but because their rapist’s kids or parents came to the trial that day and heard everything. it’s only once they calm down a little that they find the bigger issue hurting them - fear or loneliness or PTSD symptoms or sadness that a love they once had is gone, and maybe never existed.
in video about subtext, "I really like torchwood; all three seasons are amazing." that was beautiful.
This comment gave me enough information about torchwood for me to get the joke.
These are the most Southern New Yorkers of all time. Really adds a new layer to The Great Gatsby
The Great Gatsby takes place in the neighborhoods around new York City. So their accent would be a New England or another North Atlantic accent. Your older Southernish ( with bits of New Zealand mixed in) accent would be an accent of a lower class at this time period. Since the subtext of Gatsby is tied to class those characters would never be caught dead speaking in a southern accent because the south was the poorest region in the US at the time(Jim Crow, post reconstruction, low industrialization). The Southern accent would be a rich class accent during the Antebellum period but once the US industrialized the high class accent became the northern ones and later the west coast accents because movies.
I would like to note that, as someone seeing a Therapist, I can't articulate my feelings only when I don't know what they are. And your comparison seems a little off from the context given, and while your rewrite isn't bad-it does miss a potential reason for the more bluntness.
When you're close with someone and you're distanced a bit from those emotions, you're more willing to be direct and blunt and honest. I'd have to read the book to determine whether or not the character should actually have that characterization or not, but I can say right now that I have, recently, had times where I admitted the direct emotion someone made me feel to someone I was close with and trusted.
The first novel I ever read was called "La musique des choses" (the music of things) by Maryse Pelletier. Vincent is a young man slowly leaving his childhood behind as his body, his legs and his arms keeps on growing; his hands reach farther and farther keys on the piano. The more he grows, the more he plays, the more Vincent reminds his mother of his late father. As he begins to want to know more about the latter, he receives a phone call from an old lady with answers to give... a lady claiming to be his estranged paternal grandmother.
Formidable story for preteens and young adults.
Anyway, his piano teacher tells him about the subtext in musical piece, also called "the music of things," and the story follows Vincent has he tries to understand his changing world and discover the music of things in all his surroundings.
Love it.
I don't have time or money to go to school yet for writing, so these videos have helped me grow and develop my works soo much I created a playlist to easily come back to the videos I know I'll want/need. If I don't get the books for Christmas I'm buying them myself. I love your work and Im sure many others do too, what you do is incredible and I'm very thankful
I'd argue that subtext can make surprises more engaging even if the audience guesses exactly what's going to happen
"you can't have your characters say there emotions outright! That makes me angry." the best line on subtext, futurama
Tim I would absolutely LOVE to listen to you talk about Hannibal: I saw a video on subtext and just knew you'd have to bring the show up.
There is so much subtext PACKED into the smallest scenes it's insane.
Point 3, man, backed up by your personal experience answering a hotline? AMAZING SHIZ. Like, that's exactly what "Write what you know" is meant to tap into! That everyone brings something personal to the table when they talk. Not to downplay all the research and reading and study you've done, but that direct first-person experience is invaluable, and I trust it so much more than the collected and regurgitated knowledge of other writers, other stories, etc. I already kiiiinda knew most of the other points - there was more than I thought, but I was in the right ballpark - but point 3? I'll remember that part the most keenly of all, because of the real world experience you brought to it.
Arcane is excellent in using subtext. The first scene with Silco and Jinx in episode 4 comes to mind. There is SO MUCH to unpack in just that one scene. The character's tone of voice, their body language, and even the props they interact with, all communicate information that has nothing to do with what the characters are saying, but is just as vital to understanding the story. Arcane is a masterpiece.
Tim, your American accent was absolutely perfect! No notes
James Bryant burst into the room brimming with rage. He looked to his left and immediately launched his right fist towards the nearest structure, a wall, sending tiny bits of plaster flying across the room. He slowly drug his now slightly bloody hand from the wall. I could use a bandage, he murmured begrudgingly.
A furious James Bryant burst into the room and planted his fist into the nearest wall. Plaster bits flew all over. He recovered his now blodied hand and stared at it begrudgingly. It would need a bandage.
@sadman Sad Bryant hurt cuz he mad.
@@oliviu-dorianconstantinesc288 A typical Bryant move, again.
This comment is super late, so I don't know if anyone is reading it. But one great example of subtext done well is a Thai queer rom com show i recently watched called Bad Buddy. It is a rom com on the surface, but the depth of emotion and conflict in it is very well portrayed. There is so much to read between the lines, when it comes to queer struggles, friendship, parental expectations and acceptance etc. and it all comes together beautifully. So much of what you said reminded me of the show.
I always fear that I have too much subtext. I have a large history built up from my characters that is important to who they are and how they interact with the other characters. I know this is not uncommon, but I have so much trouble writing enough information about these characters within a scene without info-dumping, while also not trying to keep my readers in the dark. I know these characters, I just don't know how to introduce them.
It might help to start with separating the faces they put on for thier everyday lives. What would a complete stranger who is meeting them for the first time see in the books world. Then try to sort out thier deeper character traits into a more organized list of facets that you can take your time introducing in different scenes. Start with only one or two of the most important in thier introduction.
Yeah it is a problem for me too so I came up with a hint method (I am by no means a good writer, at least not yet and sorry if this will be lengthy reply just sharing my solution) basically do not write info dump at all instead reveal one relevant information and hint at something deeper
I used to the point flashbacks and dialogue
To illustrate in my story one of the Main characters is a captain of the ship with troubled past specifically he was dumped by his parents in the orphanage and grew up in the hostile environment, but of course he won't be telling about it to anyone so the way I did it is by giving hints about it like him having small stature due to maulnurishment, scars from fights and cooking his own food since he does not trust others after a girl in the orphanage slid a razor into his food, injuring him
I conveyed this information by having a scene where he refuses to accept his friends food after which friend asks: why do you refuse?
He says: I am not hungry sorry
He leaves saying to himself in the inner monologue: I do not trust enough to taste your cooking. Not after what that bi*ch did
So chapter ends and the next one starts with the flashback to the day that girl pulled the trick on him and saying afterwards: You are so dumb no wonder noone wants to adopt you (which tells us that he was in the orphanage at the time)
After that we return to the present and continue until next hint brings another flashback until all backstory is revealed and two narratives join into one
Hope this will help you somehow
@@Докторпарадокс I like this advice. I tried something similar. There's a time jump of a couple months that the main character experiences, though he doesn't know how long it's been. The first time it's brought up is when they end up at a cozy in where the innkeeper is willing to board them so long as she gets some context on their mysterious arrival and the mc's travelling companions. MC being withheld in who he tells what only gives a vague explanation, not satisfied the innkeeper presses for more info saying something like "what have you been doing the past 8 months? The world has changed " which shakes up the mc, seeing his reaction to the news the innkeeper relents sensing some serious trauma.
Later on the Mc reunites with a character they have history with and they trust to some degree, this is where the mc feels more comfortable giving some more context on what they've been doing during the time skip. Instead of blurting it all out at the first prompt I introduced another opportunity with someone they knew and trust (to a degree) to build on the readers understanding of those events in a way that I felt didn't compromise the character and to break up the exposition dumps into organic moments
@@ichimatsu13 also clever idea
@@joelsasmad thank you (all of you really) for your advice!
I like that this seems to be a more informational expansion on the "show don't tell" advice everyone gives. So often, I can tell that telling rather than showing is the problem with something without really being able to articulate why or how to improve. Thank you
the torchwood scene also showed they were experienced with what they were doing but owen might have less experience as the others.
I really appreciate you spelling this out because I couldn't understand his accent. I had to turn on CC, and youtube's autogenerated captions printed "tortured". Then when I looked for "sci fi series tortured", I was disappointed when there were no results. Thank you for this.
You know what? Thank you for these videos and this series man. I'm a noob writer and I've watched way more videos about writing guidelines and conventions than I'd like to admit, and literally all of them are" DON'T do this" and "DON'T do that" and I'm left wondering "Okay, so what the hell CAN I do!?". It's refreshing to watch something for once that actually tries to give examples and insight into these things. So thank you, again.
Man, I just discovered this channel, and I love it so much. Thanks so much, Tim. What you are doing is simply amazing!
I love how many clips from Hannibal you used. fantastic show
An anecdote about part 2: I've personally noticed that when people do state their emotions concretely, they're almost always LYING.
Then how should we do it? I personally would know if I'm lying. I don't want others to be convinced I am telling them an intentional mistruth if I try to summarize my feelings at some point.
I admit being concrete with feelings is often difficult because in the short term they are ever-shifting.
In the long term, some things really do seem concrete to me. For example, thinking about the 9/11terror attacks(at least the attacks themselves) makes me sad, no two ways about it.
@@noway8259 that's the thing. You *think* you know, but our biases are most invisible to ourselves, and it's often at the end of a character's development that they can deconstruct themselves enough to understand and express feelings. So no, unless it's a mentor character or some sort of foil to your protagonist, it's not recommended to have them always know exactly why and how their feeling things, and even if they can, they shouldn't be able to express it perfectly either. And EVEN IF THEY CAN EXPRESS IT, it doesn't mean that the other character will understand.
Humans are nuanced. Dialogue should reflect that
it could make you angry when you realize the government not only allowed it but weaponized it to enrich US corporations at the cost of even more human life.
Hey, thanks for your work on the suicide hotlines. I've done that work myself and I really love it. Just wanted to say that I'm grateful for you.
An amazing use of subtext I saw in early Game of Thrones on a rewatch was with Tywin and Arya. Tywin is talking about his father, who nearly ruined the entire house of Lannister. Tywin called him a good man, but a weak man. His eyes glaze over and he absently stares into the fire. This is not the cold and calculated expression we've seen on Tywin before.
The subtext comes in when Tywin says "I'm cold." He *never* displays any vulnerability. Normally, Tywin would have said "Bring more wood for the fire." But instead he, without realising, subtly admits to weakness in front of Arya (his servant at the time). Seeing that, you get a glimpse of the man underneath the iron wall that is Tywin Lannister. Deep down he wishes he could have loved his father more, but their relationship was ruined because Tywin lost all respect for him.
I feel like dialogue is one of the things that many young writers struggle with the most, so thanks for providing specific examples that go beyond the generic "show don't tell" tip.
while watching this and while you were talking about the different ways subtext can be used you had 5 things, Dynamic, Thematic, Character, Hidden thoughts, and Implication. I think the easiest way to remember these all is to throw them in a DITCH! just a simple acronym that puts them all together
A great scene of Subtext is Silco and Marcus in Episode 6 of Arcane. That is a great show and I'd love to see Tim talk about it.
Just as an interesting aside: Sometimes, it could make for a really powerful scene when you choose to bring all subtext to the fore at the opportune time. The example that popped into my head was the scene in Lincoln, where Daniel Day Lewis delcares: "I am the President of the United States of America, clothed in enormous power..." It works so well in that particular scene because it effectively removes all nuance, stamping his authority over his council. In this case, the character says out loud what the characters and audience expect to be said through subtext.
Damn bro, you're looking really good
Two things- One, this is my favorite channel on TH-cam and this is a phenomenal video. Two, your section titles give me life.
as I recall one of the only legal (and quite popular) ways to get booze during prohibition was as an ingredient in medicine. to such an extent that people made 'medicine' that was essentially just alcohol and doctors could be convinced to prescribe it. so, owning a large number of drug stores also has some implications as a response to bootlegging allegations.
I have no idea why this video appeared in my feed, but I'm glad it did. I'm working on a comedy script for a project and I realized while watching this video that a lot of--or perhaps all comedy is subtext. The punchline is not the joke, but rather the line which leads you to it. For example, in the famous Monty Python's dead parrot sketch, the joke is not that the parrot is dead or the number of ways you can say "dead" if you read a thesaurus, it's the way in which Cleese's character channels his understandable frustration and anger into prim and proper British etiquette that simultaneously impresses and shows the limitations of politeness. And the shopkeeper's insistence of unreasonable arrangements, the joke being about how the shopkeeper is invested in making deals, not empathizing with or understanding his customers.
And, I think this also explains why many comedies are just entirely unfunny. Jay Exci
recently did a number of videos discussing Netflix comedies and the complaint about why they're so unfunny often boils down to how characters have two personality traits, like being old and horny, and then every joke is about how this person is old--but that's not all... wait for it--they're also horny. The subtext being that they're old and horny. Get it?
And finally, I think this is why jokes get less funny when you have to explain them. You're removing the subtext. In highschool, I though up this terrible and maybe slightly problematic joke: How did Pythagoras like his legs?
...
Equalateral.
I found that when I told someone this joke and then had to explain Pythagoras' theorem and the difference between equilateral and isosceles, they'd never laugh, but I could maybe get a chuckle out of others.
But there's also this classic programmer's joke that computer scientists will find especially funny, but I think others should find funny, too:
There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
The Sopranos is incredibly guilty of explicitly calling attention to subtextual themes and symbols, mostly through the therapist character. It's a little frustrating to feel proud of figuring out why Tony did something or dreamt something, only for it to be explained in straightforward terms a few scenes later.
I feel like that kinda works though, as with the therapy scenes we the viewer get to see Tony himself try and rationalize these dreams and what they mean to him. How they affect him.
@@marcuso.530 Not to mention there's usually extra subtext to Dr melfi and Tony's conversations.
Theoretically, your accent was unassailable! It hits almost every possible American accent at one point or another.
Thanks for the extra tool in my kit. Or at least reminding me how important I found it to be. I've dropped so many novels for this exact reason. Another problem with ignoring subtext is that you end up with dialogue that spoils any twist. Be too heavy handed and the plot points disintegrate. The mysteries are readily apparent, the twist events long foreshadowed, character flaws and the consequences easily predictable. The more details you forcibly explain the more clues you hand out.
My point is that subtext always exists, but funnily enough trying to remove it only exacerbates it to the extreme. The reason you hate writings with "little subtext" is that it is actually overinflated subtext which becomes redundant or it spoils the story by giving away all the key clues, not just handing you a list but highlighting for anything extra important.
First of all great video Tim. Personally found this video particularly helpful and interesting. As someone with autism unless I'm going out of my way to look for subtext in my reading I'll completely blank out on all of it. Can't wait for the live-stream.
You know, I don’t really understand what the big deal about The Great Gatsby is. Everyone jumps to say how deep and philosophical it is, but have you ever heard how it was written? It was written in like a week without any draft or planning, submitted on the first draft, before the author moved on to his next rushed book. And the literal only reason it became popular wasn’t due to its remarkable storytelling or quality. The book actually was a failure, but during WW2 it was chosen as one of the books to be mass produced and sent to soldiers due solely to how short it was, and it’s depiction of grand partying, meant to raise soldiers’ morale, which defibrillated its popularity. There is nothing special about this book that sets it apart, it isn’t even a particularly good book, it was just randomly chosen to be that one book from the twenties that anybody actually remembers. And now highschool students will have to be tortured by it until the end of time.
Hmmm, well there really isn’t a big deal about gatsby. Many are asked to read it in school for probably some of the same reasons you mentioned above for the soldiers. So even if it’s not a masterpiece, which I can agree it is not, its still a good talking point with fairly simple language and story which many people are familiar with. It’s not terrible or anything though. You’ve clearly got some beef with it- I think it’s okay to make reference to sub-par writing. Lovecraft for example has a lot of what I’d consider flops (there are a few good ones of course)- this not even influenced by how racist they are. I still think they are worth talking about and examining even if only for the fact that it, for better or for worse, heavily influenced many future writers.
Also, Fitzgerald stole a lot of ideas from Zelda-HIS WIFE. Aka much of GG is PLAGIARISM.
Personally, I love The Great Gatsby, mostly for its writing style. Each to his own, I guess. 🤷♀️
It does seem like a weird choice to send to soldiers though. The key plot is about a soldier who goes to war and then returns to find the woman he hoped was waiting for him had run off and married somebody else. Not exactly morale-boosting.
You're allowed to not like a look without justification you don't have to dig for a reason its trash
@@frankjonesthenerd6841 - lol, Zelda was a fucking nut job.
Am i the only one who enjoyed the original child 44 excerpt to his? Sometimes things just work without forcing every literary tool in there.
As a Brit living in New Zealand, can confirm your accent was 110% on point.
Also i feel the film adaptation of Child 44 was able to communicate the subtext pretty well, but I've not read the book to compare them and now I'm not sure if i want to 🤣
This has been an incredibly helpful video! Thank you so much!
Lindybeige, while rarely if ever calling it "subtext," goes in-depth on some forms of subtext in a video he did on making comic books dramatic. It's about a year old. (i.e. late 2022)
Tim, what i love about your American accent (Puget Sound boy here) is that you own its badness in the most endearing and funny way possible, and by that I mean your SUBTEXT, not just your invitation to mock. If you were trying for a Southern accent, well, you're not alone, most Antipodeans and Southwestern British have great difficulty with the Southern accents, perhaps because of their regional variety and relative similarity to older British accents. But you fluctuate widely between Old South High Society (Hollywood version) and Trans-Atlantic. This is a pretty relatable problem, as both are almost entirely heard today in old films. One trick that I was surprised to see Dr. Geoff Lindsey uncharacteristically failing, recently, is to get the "urr" sound right, for the region and class, as in "cERtain."
Oh. Right. This video is two years old. Oh, well! I had 4 more points, but, whatever. Nobody's going to read this.
Great video, I do have one minor nitpick which may be localized to the US. When you mention kids shows and subtext at 20:45 you mention that kids are spoonfed morals because they don't understand subtext. In shows made in the US it is because of a legal loophole that requires programming to be educational. Often there is no moral in the show itself and instead the moral is tacked on at the end to fit this loophole in the law. The show Animaniacs is both a perfect example of this and also serves as a subversion of this same idea.
How tf did I JUST learn about this?
23:57 35000 copies of your first book? Man, I'm so happy for you that this works out as such a huge success. I've been following your series for I don't remember how many years and to see you grow gives me a feeling of... proud I think. I don't know how else to describe it.
Is that weird? I don't know, but I'm not even ashamed of it either. Thank you again for yet another amazing video on subjects I am both struggling with but equally enjoying to learn. You've made it much easier for me to understand.
I’m so glad you mentioned Hannibal! For a show about serial killers, it’s surprisingly “oops! All subtext”
Love this channel
Waiting for that handshake Tim 😉
Honestly I'm kind of mixed feelings on this, an overreliance on subtext has often led to seeing a lot of people not just misinterpret a scene's meaning and themes, but not interpet them at all, to the point that I'm not sure it's always worth keeping things subtle for more media literate readers who've studied writing or filmmaking. Audience participation and interpretation can happen subconsciously, but it's a little too easy for a reader to just passively consume and disregard what was in fact a key scene.
For example in Genshin Impact I see a lot of the discourse completely miss the point of scenes where themes are meant to be inferred rather than directly stated, such as Ayaka's character quest that have me questioning if as a writer, particularly for a mass audience, it may be better to simply be more overt and lay the cards on the table more clearly if the alternative is that a big chunk of the players take no meaning from the scene otherwise. They'll still choose to take their own interpretation, but at least from the starting point of a better understanding of what it is they even saw.
Yeah, i felt weird when HFM omitted the word “arrested” in that rewritten dialogue, for example. Sounds like she didn’t get the full information across, and i wouldn’t imply what she meant at all.
Good subtext is like wearing an expensive watch.
You don't flash it in everyones faces and some people might not even notice it - and that's fine. Those who do, will appreciate it for what it is. Good style.
I am here the rate accents from good or perfect. This accent was:
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I enjoyed this. (Notice the lack of subtext and my use of parentheses to further clarify.)
9:38 that is just so much better. You get intrigued instead of bored. Now I realised the importance of subtext
I wouldn't get a lot of this, I just don't read like that. And when I'm talking to people, I'm constantly frustrated by people not just saying what they mean. Through great effort I've learned that mom saying "The dishwasher is a bit full," really means "I want one of you to run the dishwasher," but that took me fifteen years.
Those two versions of the scene from child 44 you read off? Had pretty much an identical impact on me, though I'll admit that's probably at least in part due to me having no prior familiarity with the characters, but I can't really say how much of a part that is.
This
I can very much relate to what you wrote in your comment. I'm autistic. Almost all of us seem to have the literal-mindedness that you described.
Here's an example of when I've missed subtext:
I took a Linguistics 101 course, and we were learning about language acquisition in children. The textbook gave an example of subtext that most children notice. If you answer the phone, and the person on the other end says, "Is [so-and-so] there?", it is an indirect way of saying, "I want to talk to [so-and-so]. Please give [so-and-so] the phone so I can talk to them." According to the textbook, most 5-year-old children know this -- even if no one has ever directly explained it to them.
I'd had no idea that it was an indirect request. I was very surprised. If someone asked me, "Is so-and-so there?", I would answer the question -- "yes", "no", "I don't know, I'll check...", etc. If I answered "yes", there would be silence. Then the other person would say something like, "...Can I talk to them?" I'd say "yes" and I'd give the phone to [so-and-so].
Now that I know that they were giving me an indirect request, I understand that the silence was probably an awkward silence. Oops...
When I was a kid, I sometimes got in trouble because I misinterpreted instructions. People thought I was pretending to misunderstand them. But that doesn't happen as much anymore. People who know me well, know that I don't pretend to misunderstand. They know that I mean what I say and I say what I mean.
You might be autistic. I strongly recommend researching it.
Autism shows up differently in different people. There are lots of traits that many autistic people have, but which not all autistic people have. For example, many autistic people dislike it when other people touch them -- but I don't mind. In fact, I like warm hugs! I have sensory sensitivity, but some autistic people don't. But almost all of us seem to have the literal-mindedness that you described.
I hope this comment is helpful and/or interesting.
@@JeshikaKazeno Oh i know I'm autistic, I'm fairly high functioning as it goes, but yeah, I can understand in an objective sense that people often aren't literal, but it always takes some asking of effort to interpret that, and when I'm just reading something for entertainment it doesn't come through. I've also got one of the manifestations of touch sensitivity, notably, my sensory adaptation abilities are impaired. Most people gradually lose conscious awareness of persistent stimuli, their brains filter it out as unimportant, things like the sensation of the clothes you're wearing, or the frames of glasses in the edge of your vision, but my brain either doesn't do that, or does so to a much lesser extent, which tends to result in very fidgety behavior, because I never stop feeling my clothes, I can get comfortable, but I'm constantly aware, so if I'm actually doing anything, even just sitting in a chair in class taking notes, that movement is enough to mess with the comfortable equilibrium and make me have to adjust them. I have the eye contact issue as a double whammy because of my vision problems, even with my glasses I can't really clearly see someone's eyes unless we're within about five or six feet, thigh looking at someone's face is usually enough to get the effect.
Oh geez
During the "I am sad" section, I realized that sounds exactly like my writing. Welp, its a good thing I clicked on this video! Thanks Tim!
Comment for the algorithm 😂
But seriosuly, thank you so much Tim for all of the many, many things you have taught me!
I know this isn't the point of your video, but your Board Game collection on prominent display feels like a flex. Excellent game choices!
It's totally a flex.
~ Tim
One of the best cases of subtext I've ever read was a Metal Gear fanfic called Crash Text. (I got so enamored with it I translated it into English.) The two characters almost never spell anything out, and neither does the PoV character's internal monologue. The plot is basically a road trip gone on too long for reasons beyond their control, promping mutual introspection. And yet it's so rich and human and sympathetic, because this is how real people who know each other a little too well for comfort would really talk.
I've been called, more than once, a man without subtext. I've never understood not saying what you mean and not knowing what you feel. I guess it makes me wooden or something but I've always just stated my feelings plainly.
Burned through a bunch of pyschs because they refused to believe me. It's awful. Figure your shit out and say it.
Stating your feelings plainly isn't always the best course of action though. I'm most people I've encountered who pride themselves on "speaking plainly" (or even worse being "brutally honest") come across as massive arseholes.
People are also great at fooling themselves maybe you legitimately know everything you are feeling but maybe sometime you are just fooling yourself or at least not open to the fact you might be wrong or feelings may be more complex or go deeper.
It's quite funny that you bemoan how all these experts are wrong and how bad that was, maybe you were the problem, maybe you were wrong but are so convienced in the infallibility of you proclaimed self awareness you can't see it.
@@101Mant well they all insisted I had to have been sexually abused or something like that and they were wrong. Just grew up poor with people who spoke half truths. It's not that experts are wrong. It's that Americans dont listen.
It’s just not always smart. If Michael had told Hymen Roth “I think you tried to have me assasinated” he would have been killed quickly. But he stated “I think Frankie pentangeli tried to have me killed”
He diverted the attention.
@anjetto1 you might want to check out the channel "Asperger's from the Inside". Having no subtext, being honest and then other people not believing you are all signs of Asperger's. Also it presents similar to PTSD without any prior trauma. Subtext is typical human behavior and so someone always telling the whole truth really throws people off their step.
I adore Garth Marenghi. Thank you for the reminder to rewatch that series.
I'm only now noticing how much writing for my friends in middle school screwed the way I think about writing.
I remember very clearly the very first story I wrote to completion. It wasn't very good, granted, but it was written in 3rd person from the perspective of the main character, the entire time. At some point, the MC is taken out of the world. The entire story had taken place in our world with our rules, and she had just been pulled out of it for the first time in her life. I felt it was interesting to switch perspectives then, to one of her friends that stayed on earth, instead of jumping straight into her. I haven't gone back to read it in a long time, I'm sure it was not well achieved at the time but I still think it's a cool idea.
What my readers at the time told me, though, stayed much more ingrained than it really should have. That I couldn't do it like that, that it was confusing. That I had to spell it out. "What writers usually do is write that the POV has changed at the start of the page" was the exact words they used. That was very odd for me, and I did not pay much mind because I'd read books before and they never did that. But what that taught me was that I could not trust my readers...
If I'd been told that now, I'd still find it very odd, but I'd recognize that 1. it came from the fact my friend only read fanfiction but 2. and more importantly, that my point was not coming across clearly enough. I did not have to spell it out, but I did have to find a way to work it better. These videos help me realize things about my own writing and demystify concepts I hadn't even realized were so ingrained in my writing process, as well as give me new tools to work with. And for that I am thankful.
TL;DR: love ur videos !!
I do have a question: when should a backstory, or the origin of a relationship be implied as opposed to spelled out?
It is worth noting that there were a fair number of books around aimed at older kids and young teens, when I was the right age to be their target audience, that DID label point of view changes like that. ... Well, sort of like that. Less the start of the page and more the start of the chapter. Still, it was a thing. Just literally the character's name in a different font immediately after the chapter heading.
@@laurencefraser that's really odd, i did not know that
@@gormitivsastro Wonder is a middle grade book that does exactly this and people STILL got confused by the perspective shifts because idk, monolingual English speakers are just hopeless I guess.
I'm not always good at spotting subtext, so it's good when someone points it out. I don't mean someone in the film/book going "oh you mean to say...", but some youtube video, or essay, teaches me by showing how it was done.
an example of this is the Pulp Fiction scene when they get the case and kill the thieves. When I watched it it was just a fun scene with some exposition, funny dialogue, and character building. The I watched a video explaining the subtext of controlling the interaction. Not just by waving guns, but also by interrupting someone talking, taking their things, and the timing of one execution just as the other person is trying to gain control of the conversation. The way they showed how that subtext works made me realise that even though I hadn't noticed it at the time it still shaped how I experienced the scene because it flowed so well.
Some people use Subtext, some people don't. By that, I mean some Characters in the story might not act exactly the same way as others. At the very least, I can say with some certainty that I rarely use Subtext in my real-life dialogue. I recently started writing a character who almost doesn't speak at all. Mostly just grunts, groans, maybe says one or two words. It's 3rd person though, so at least I can write some of the character's thoughts outside the dialogue. No, wait, am I using subtext right now in this comment?
The fact that you also own the game Scythe earns you a subscription!
Yes. A topic I very much needed.
As much as I love Frank Herbert’s Dune series, I think he’s pretty heavy handed when it comes to his thematic subtext. Every few dozen pages, whether in thought italics or in dialogue, at least one character goes into some super heady existential analysis-except, Herbert’s characters’ self awareness within their story is what gives their actions and decisions so much weight.
Accent rating: exquisite!
I'm genuinely happy this lawyer decided to make a career out of enlightening us to writing and the world of writing in a fun digestible way. Thank you, Tim! Sorry for saying (thinking) NZ was part of Australia on twitter.
You took the subtext of subtext, and made it text. Nice.
Seriously lol, this is why I’m subbed. You’re one of my favorite channels
This was a fun video to come to after re-watching the video on The Last Airbender.
This has been incredibly difficult to understand information, and at the same time, it was very easy to understand. I feel like understanding the basics is easy, but mastering it takes a lot of time and effort...
Thank you for that video! I love using subtext, so I hope I'll use it correctly and adequately
Thanks man this should be real useful for me i find being autistic subtext goes over my head so easy why can't the words mean the words they say haha
Look at Charisma on Command on TH-cam.
This is true. Even if in fiction having internal monologues and behaviors you need to pay attention to literally spelled out for you it becomes a lot easier to understand, it can be really hard to write it in if you're just not programed to pick these sorts of things up is real life.
Still it's kind of funny to think about it:
Neurotypical people seeing a subtextless exchange: oh god, I am so uncomfortable...
Certain neurodivergant people seeing it: FUCKING THANK YOU. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LOST I WAS. THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
Kind of makes me laugh to think of that playing out. We are immune to the cringe and in fact crave that level of honesty, lol.
@@YourWaywardDestiny haha exactly just sometimes get so lost and once i have it explained all i can think is why didn't they just say that sometimes
@@ianpage2509 roger I'll give it a look thanks
I really wish English lessons were taught like this. GCSE English actually made me stop reading but your videos have inspired me to discover books again over the past year
Talking about introspective writing, growing as people, themes and character development while Power Rangers fight scenes play in the background is such a power move xD
"Please rate my accent from good to excellent."
Your australian one is excellent.
PS - I know he's a kiwi.
His Aussie accent is not good. -Libby, Australian
this was the best lesson on subtext I have ever seen, and that's on the nose!
Just ordered both volumes.
Normally dont do that but your stuff is so good I wanted to support your hard work.
Rate your accent from good to excellent? How about „brilliantly awful“?
I kept thinking “show, not tell” during the whole video and thought subtext and “show, not tell” are very intertwined. Thank you Tim.👍
Nevermind the accent, why was there a super sentai combat scene in the middle of talking about thematic subtext!?
....could it be... that this video has subtext I didn't catch? 😨
This comment is amazing 🤣 that is all.
GOAT of writing advice videos
Here’s a question. Is it possible to have too much subtext? I re-read a lot of my dialogue and most sections have subtext underlying them. However, my first chapter has, like, a lot of it, and my editors didn’t seem to catch all of it. The important parts got through but some of the interesting character manipulation information seemed lost until I told them.
I think that rather than too much or little there is just your style, with layers. And, while it's hard, you have to accept that some things will be missed by some people - or even most people - but not everyone! For an example, it astonished me after reading Hunger Games that people thought Katniss just "went crazy" instead of taking steps to prevent a copy of Snow from taking control of the country. Even after it was laid out so clearly - both the personality and actions of Snow 2.0 and that Katniss was acting with a plan in mind - there was still a large chunk of the fanbase that didn't pick up on ANY of it. It's a little sad but it is also true to real life, so it's hard to get around....
I agree with Keltaryn that it depends largely on your style. I would argue that it is very difficult to add too much subtext into a story unless it obscures the enjoyment of the story on the first read. What's cool about stories with a lot of subtext is that it makes the story better on the second or even the third read/watch/listen. If you can make the story enjoyable the first time through, then no, it's impossible to have too much subtext.
Note: your fanbase will be split about how much of the character interaction was actually put there by you, the author, as intentional subtext. Some fans will argue that the others are "overthinking everything". Be aware and prepared to deal with that controversy if you do put that much depth into your story.
"Kids aren't exactly the smartest cookies in the toolbox." -- My brain broke, you had me giggle. Thank you, Tim.
A good example of subtext for people to study is "Hills Like White Elephants" by Ernest Hemingway. You are thrust into the middle of a vague argument that you don't get to see the actual conclusion of. The entire conversation between these two characters is subtext and is rather fun to try to unpack, even if the realization is less fun. 0_0
I knew this was a Garth Marenghi influenced title before clicking on the thumbnail. Good job ☺️
Just purchased Writing & World Building Vol.2, can’t wait to read it!
I've watched, leaned and enjoyed your channel for years. Thank you, and I will be getting a copy of your book.
I love writing emotions, and I really like how you rewrite some scenes to make them more enjoyable emotionally. Great video, as usual! Looking forward to buy one of your books :)
The dirty secret is that most people hate subtext. It makes them feel dumb and confused. I've known people who watched daytime soaps and hallmark movies and I couldn't stand to be in the same room while they were on. The writing was that terrible. Then I realized it was terrible by design. People watch that stuff because it's their fantasy to live in a world where people say literally everything they think.
Yeeaaahh....That is very much an unfortunate truth. :(
I saw the thumbnail and said the Garth Marenghi line out loud before i clicked and saw it included. Darkplace is the BEST