I worked at the Detonics manufacturing plant in Bellevue, WA between 1980 and 1983! I worked in the sales and marketing department and really enjoyed planning for and attending trade shows including the annual NRA Shows, S.H.O.T. Shows, and NASGW Shows! I had great fun showing guys how I could field strip a Combat Master in under five seconds! Unfortunately, we had a pretty low advertising budget, but we had pretty respectable sales despite the high price of the units! It was really great fun and I met and worked with some great people, including my husband of now 40 years, Ray Herriott!
I had an enjoyable evening 2nd shift visit to the Detonics Bellevue machine shop at a time when a former co-worker of mine worked there as a machinist in the late 70's. We both were career machinist, so it was of particular interest for me. Nice clean smooth-running shop with a well-armed staff.
Great review! I was privileged to be in on the "ground floor" of Detonics's introduction of their compact .45. As a result of our mutual involvement in unlimited hydroplane racing (me, a Seattle Police officer, as part of Seattle's Seafair Unlimited Race Team - Sid Woodcock, as security for Jim Clapp's revolutionary turbine powered U-95 hydroplane) Sid and I formed a friendship. To listened to Sid at that time (1973), he was the sole inspiration and designer behind the Detonics .45. This, we now know, was not the case. He, along with Detonics Corporation, were simply the owners of the patents, previously designed by others. Sid was the "front man" for Detonics and they needed a story behind the development of their firearm. Sid provided it and he did so quite well. That being said, Sid did see the potential behind the design/patents and was instrumental in bringing to production the finished product. I owned one of the very first Detonics .45 ever produced. I sold it and "upgraded," a few years later (when they were still a Seattle based company), to the all stainless steel "Professional Model" when the stainless guns were first introduced. I have that gun today (number 50 of the first stainless steel offerings). As a result of my friendship with Sid Woodcock he personally supervised the construction of my gun, number 50 of the stainless series, providing me with extra magazines, interchangeable sights and interchangeable recoil springs to accommodate the use of lower powered .45 target ammunition. There are many stories I could tell about my friend, Sid Woodcock, and the birth of the Detoncis .45. To do so I would be up all night responding to your excellent review!!!
Thank you for your service to the people,now and days police officers get a bad reputation,but they are people too and they put themselves in between the good guys and the bad guys on a daily basis and I commend you for that.That's very cool that you knew Sid Woodcock and we're his friend.
I spent some time with a guy who was involved in both the Seattle and Georgia Detonics, and he told me some stories. He was presented with two extractors, asked to evaluate them, expressed his preference and was told, "Sorry, the other one is a nickel cheaper." He said they were constantly trying to save pennies on the manufacturing side, while at headquarters they were driving Ferraris and "lighting their cigars with $100 bills".
people are dumb. John Moses Browning did all the math and experimenting to get the timing perfect.....once you change the slide length, spring weights, ect.....you have a completely new gun and have to work out all the bugs. now it's less reliable and more finicky. I don't trust anything smaller than a Commander size 1911. not saying they don't work....they're less forgiving of worn springs and magazines
It's of course true, but it is a stand out feature of the Detonics. While the Detonics was the first and actually smaller(grip is shorter) the other small 1911s that came later are inferior timing wise. The slide stroke length on a Detonics Combat Master is longer than on an officer model or one of the many clones. On an officer pattern 1911 the slide only travels far enough back for the breach face to just clear the magazine well. On a Detonics the slide still travels far enough back to clear the disconnector. This difference makes the Detonics much more reliable than an officer pattern 1911. Officer pattern 1911s are very magazine sensitive as there's not enough dwell time where the breach is open and they outrun the magazine. The Detonics does not have this problem. I carry an original cut/welded frame MK1, it's a reliable firearm when well maintained and ya just can't get more punch in a smaller package. There's much more detail to what makes the Detonics uniquely good.
I first heard of these pistols in a book series called "The Survivalist", in the mid to late '70s. The protagonist wore a brace of them at all times and, of course, performed incredible feats of legerdemain both with and without them in the traditional Doc Savage style. The books went the usual route from, "Oh my!" to, "You gotta be kidding me" with ,"WTF?" following soon thereafter. This is the first time I've actually seen one outside of Johnson's fist and it appears to be competent for the job.
That was my Detonics Combat Master that sold. Yes, same serial number and I cleansed the grips and treated with Danish oil. Very nice book matched wood. I still have the original Owner’s Manual and a Detonics ad piece.
Thanks for this video. The Detonics .45ACP pistol was a very sought after handgun by Law Enforcement Officers of the day who were looking for a modern, compact, large caliber semi-automatic handgun for off duty, undercover, and where allowable by department/agency rules, plainclothes carry. I know several now retired LEOs who still own and carry their Detonics pistols on a daily basis.
Back in my detective days, while, if memory serves, I was toting a Rem-Rand 1911 A-1 on my hip, another fellow who worked for the same city (in Maintenance, I think) asked if I'd ever heard of a Detonics Combat Master. I told him I'd drooled on many but never owned one. He met me our firing range shortly there after, once he'd clocked out with his PAIR of Combat Masters (in a nice but couldn't have been comfortable double holster holding them cavalry draw at about 5:00 and 7:00). I got to shoot them as much as I wanted that day. Which, honestly wasn't a whole lot. They were plenty accurate, totally reliable with what we fed them (he, I believe, said he'd never had a problem with them) and the cool factor was off the charts. But those things had some healthy recoil. Shooting them was really a cool experience and I was grateful but it wasn't something I'd want to do a lot (and if I carried them, I'd be shooting them a lot in practice aside from annual qualifications). Frankly they were downright unpleasant little beasts to shoot. But, if I saw one today for an insanely low price would I but it? Yep. Would I carry it? Yep. Would I say "Ouch! Dammit!" every time I shot it? Yep. Would that stop me or even give me pause? Nope. :) Detonics: Making tiny 1911s before it was a fad. :)
Great video, as always. This pistol also achieved a degree of fame in a series of books called The Survivalist by Jerry Ahern. Throughout the series the phrase "twin Detonics in Alessi dual shoulder holsters" seems to be used at least once per chapter.
Michael Emberley Yes! I’ve read that whole series & actually forgot about the mentioning of the shoulder holster. However I do remember the “Milt Sparks Six Pack” was also mentioned a lot. If I remember, the character John Rourke got the Six Pack as a gift or something like that, from someone he ran across on his journey he embarked on after the smoke cleared from the destruction that happened across the world. Now that I think about it, the movie “The Book of Eli” with Denzel Washington has a similar theme to it like the character in the book series. Good Day to You!
A bit odd that one would use shoulder holsters for Detonics though, given how compact they are. It would be very easy to carry them in the waistband, vest pocket, coat pocket, or pants pocket. Pretty much anywhere else, really. When I think shoulder holster, I think of larger guns.
Bagley0759 Yes he sure did! I have a blued Combat Master, probably late 1970’s vintage. When they started being re-produced in Georgia, I talked with a guy on the phone down there about what the new magazines for them would be like. I think his name was Peter Dunn. He said he was actually around when they were being made in Seattle. I gave him my serial number range and he said it was late 1970’s vintage. Great guy to talk with. Wasn’t in a hurry to get off the phone & very knowledgeable, obviously. I carried it as a off duty weapon in civilian L.E. for over 25 years, then ended up going to a Colt Defender, just because of the weight difference with the alloy frame. My old bones with arthritis really noticed the difference right away. By the way, I’ve read & still have all of the Survivalist paper back books from the 1980’s. Good Day to You!
+tenhundredkills Considering new commander sized 1911's go at an MSRP of $1200 and up. Don't forget this particular weapon has historical significance in the lineage of the 1911 so I would say $600 to $800 is a steal. Can I afford that? Not really, I'm not into collecting, but still I consider it a steal. I would not be surprised to see this pistol sell for much more. Time will tell. Ian's been updating video comments with hammer prices. I hope he continues to do so.
+William Hayden I gotta agree. With the pistol being up for auction, there's the possibility that a couple of fanatical collectors will bid to the death for it! On the other hand, maybe no one will even bother with it. If I didn't have to go to school full time, I'd be jumping all over this gun!
+Jason “cyberspace entity” Doe I personally don't find the 1911 charming. It was grate for it's time, but it's weight, low magazine size, and finicky maintenance requirements make it a poor choice in most modern scenarios, professional or not. It is a damn pretty gun, though.
+SnarfTheHoovySlayer Maintenance requirements? You think it's an M9 or an XM16? As for weight, it's less than half a pound heavier than a Beretta 92FS or Hi Power; all steel and it also has a longer/wider barrel. As for capacity, it's a single stack, as was standard for decades and decades after it was designed. It's partially thanks to this quality as to why it's such a thin design compared to modern double stack pistols. Why it feels so natural in the hand. It's much easier to carry concealed than something like a double stack Glock, all while using the beefy .45 ACP. It's also very easy to do a full disassembly on a Mil Spec M1911 than just about any modern double stack design. I can take mine down entirely without the use of tools, and have actually done so twice while blind folded; first time took 45 minutes, second time took half an hour. There's a reason why some people still carry the M1911 design, and indeed why the M1911 design is still in service to this day. It's proven itself time and time again. Accurate, reliable, ergonomic, easy to maintain, maintenance itself isn't a hugely important issue, and anyone with bit of time on their hands can learn the internal workings of the design so as to become their own gunsmith. It would be all too easy for me to replace the hammer, trigger, mag release, sear, disconnect, mainspring housing, or what have you, all without the use of any tools. The weight doesn't bother me yet I've got a stainless steel model; Springfield Armoury Mil Spec. I hear it's one of the heavier models available, just looked it up, apparently 39oz with an empty mag, which is 2.43lb, or about 1.1kg. 230gr ball .45 ACP is about 21 rounds per pound, so add in 7 rounds, and we're looking at about 2.76lb or around 1.25kg. We're not talking about a 4lb Desert Eagle here. Even WWII mil spec models made 70+ years ago have been taken to about 72m (80yd) at Hickok45's compound, so you clearly don't need a souped up $2000 model just to get decent accuracy. If there were reliability issues, something tells me it would have been discovered at some point in the past 104 years. No, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one; the M1911 design is old, but it is not a poor choice "in most modern scenarios, professional or not." It's not the only pistol I own either; I also have a Hi Power and CZ-75 Pre-B for double stack designs, and for single stack, P38 and TT33. I find I just seem to inherently shoot better with the P38, but it's such an outrageously wide design for a single stack, and I hate the slide mounted safety. Even if I owned a Beretta 92FS or M9, I definitely believe I'd still hold the M1911 as my personal favourite pistol, with the Hi Power being my favourite 9mm pistol. Everyone has their preferences of course. The Glock 21 is of course lighter, and has higher capacity, as well as a simpler field strip, but I've handled a Glock before. I definitely prefer the M1911's ergonomics, I appreciate the ease of which it can be completely disassembled (right down to the magazine release spring which I use the leaf spring to remove), and having that manual safety there adds a layer of comfort, as well as being able to cock/decock the design at a whim not to mention able to visually see whether it's cocked or not. Little details, but for some, it's the details that make the difference.
I WANT one! The .45 acp hand gun is probably one of the best working hand guns made.A smaller one like the Detonics is a must have.Thank you for a great video!
Jerry Ahern the author of the survivalist series of books also used these for his hero in the series. This was where I had first heard about them. And I also believe that he also had a hand in developing these guns if I'm not mistaken. But great video! I had never seen anything on these guns up until now. Thanks Ian for an informative video as always!
The other .45 pistol that was getting attention about the same time as the Detonics, was the Star PD. It was one of the first ultra-lightweight 1911-style pistols, plus it was relatively compact. If there was any fault to the Detonics design it was that it was a very heavy piece.
So...Ian...what do you think of the Detonics MkI that you reviewed? This was my pistol that went up for auction at RIA. I never fired the pistol and I acquired it from a doctor friend of mine that was going through a messy divorce and it was unfired when it bought it from him. I also own a Detonics Scoremaster that I used in IPSC competition...still have it and it is in excellent condition. Detonics was way ahead of its time...mastering the galling issues with stainless steel and using a flared bushingless barrel. Very accurate pistols.
I love this gun this was my favorite carry gun for over a decade before I finally switched to a Glock 27. I still enjoy taking it out and shooting it. With practice this gun was remarkably accurate. I don't know what there was about this gun but it's just seems to be at least for me one of the most natural Quick Draw point and shoot guns I've ever had.
I remember reading early reviews of the Detonics subcompacts. The gun writers of the day talked about the stout recoil and how difficult a subcompact pistol in a serious caliber was to handle. They were recommended only for real professionals who had a serious need. Now we've got small pistols in more potent calibers and nobody bats an eye. Times and perceptions have certainly changed!
I don't know man, tiny guns in big calibres still suck. Have you tried shooting a tiny, lightweight .357 Mag snubbie? Or a baby Glock in 10mm? You can buy those guns, and carry them for defense, but very few people have the wrists to properly practice with those. I'm not convinced that the increase in calibre is worth the decrease in usability. That said, this particular gun looks shootable enough. A decent steel frame should tame those .45s, even in the smaller package. If this was polymer framed, that would be a different story.
I remember hearing and think it was on this channel about the Bren 10 automatic that Cockett's character carried on the show and that it was in .45 caliber, so it would make sense for him to carry a similar gun that would also use the same ammo. I remember reading a police survival manual stating that if you carry a backup gun it should use the same ammo as the service gun you carry.
schizoidboy Actually the Bren Ten they initially used in the series was a 10mm. After so many episodes, someone decided it was sort of impractical for a detective to carry a Bren Ten, so they changed Crockett’s sidearm to a S&W 645, .45ACP. The Detonics was a stainless model, meaning I guess it would be lighter for carrying in the ankle holster. Good Day to You!
Actually the magazine followers sticking out the bottom of the fully loaded magazine was sold as a feature letting you know at a glance or a quick feel, that the magazine was loaded up to capacity - other custom makers of sub-compact 1911's were selling shortened magazines without the follower sticking out the bottom. I have one and with hardball ammo it's reliable but with CCI's flying ashtray load not so much - many of us carried it with a HP round up the spout and magazine of hardball.
When Pat Yates designed the prototype his intent was one handed cocking on the draw thus the lowered hammer and cut Slide ( shorter reach for the thumb ) not to fan the gun also his prototype featured no safety at all - thumb safety removed only a stiffer firing pin spring and to reassure himself of that he conducted drop tests to 8 foot, on another note the barrel on my 1977 production gun is labeled Colt 45 Auto NM Mk IV Series 70 and the barrel flair is welded to the Colt Barrel ..... Thank you so much for the Video's I watch religiously
You forgot to mention the the egg shape slide barrel hole. It creates a "tri-pod" effect, which brings the bell shape barrel back to battery after each shot. The duel spring also dampen recoil.
Saw this a couple weeks ago and wanted very badly to jump on it. Good luck to anyone who is making a bid, it's surprisingly affordable and a very attractive pistol
Thanks for the look at this! Along with the ASP-to which you did great service-this was was one of the must get, can't live without, pistols that I never got, and have learned to live without. If you ever get your hands on a Fitz Special, you will have covered the triumvirate of my youthful carry desires.
+Shoes Don't forget Ian provides a very valuable service to the auction houses as well by providing video footage of these firearms as well as historical and/or interesting information. That makes the value of these firearms easier for buyers to ascertain and thus sell. Ian is in a word is an asset. It's a relationship that benefits us all. :)
ill never understand why people dislike your videos ian! lol. you explain and articulate so much info on these guns and do such a good job doing it, how can anyone dislike your stuf?? haha keep it up boss.
I used to read some mercenary pulp fiction in the late 70s. The protagonist had a pair of Detonics .45s. They had Pachmayr grips and were "ramped and sloped". Whatever the hell that means.
ramped= The feed " ramp" of the barrel was polished to a mirror sheen. Sloped could refer to 2 things: tightening of the action for accuracy or it could refer to the "slope" cut at the rear sight on the Detonics combat master. both were factory upgrades done to all Combat Masters. My Jerry Ahern era Georga Made Detonics USA stainless Combat Master came from the factory exceptionally well fitted and with a perfect barrel, I build 1911's as a hobby (once as a profession and I really have no room to improve upon the work that was done from the factory. I'll go out on a limb here and say for the record: *"The Georga manufactured Detonics Pistols were some of the finest "factory" 1911's and derivatives ever made bar NONE."* ESPECIALLY for the price paid. Mainly because each and every one was treated like a full custom shop 1911 hand fitted and no attention to detail spared.
This was a very interesting video. Detonics was truly ahead of it's time. A high school friend of mine who became a police officer around 1979 or so carried a reduced size 45 as his off duty carry as well, however it was a Star PD.
They are great guns I carried one for about ten years before I finely replaced it with a glock 27. I still enjoy taking it out a shooting it from time to time.
That captive recoil spring... What beautiful engineering! In my limited experience with semi-auto pistols, the one I handled did not have a captive spring.
I recall that Combat Handguns magazine covered these during the 1980's, amongst other minimised, larger calibre handguns. It's nice to see this one in your superb video series.
I remember this little weapon from the comic strip PUNISHER. Specifically, the PUNISHER ARMORY issue, which I bought when I was a teenager. I never really got into comics, but I was a budding gun nut, so that issue caught my eye and may wallet. This would have been around 1992.
Wow sold for a very reasonable price. I recall reading about this pistol when it first came out, oh how I drooled at the thought of such a small .45ACP. The 45 has always been my cartridge of choice when I was on the police force, I am a large man at 6'2'' weighing in at a bit over 230 pounds so the M1911A1 looked just right carried on my duty belt. In my search for an off duty weapon in the same caliber of my on duty, I managed to find a cheap Star PD, and carried that for off duty carry for many years. When I didn't have that, I simply carried my 1911. Over the years I did experiment with other off duty guns, including a small Chief's Special Smith, and a few European .380's. I always had a small .22 for target shooting, and some larger ones including the Ruger .22, and some others such as the Arminius revolver in .22 but I always came back to the .45. I ended up carrying an Astra A100 in .45ACP for a duty gun, and now am pleased to own a small Citadel in .45ACP for concealed carry and as my traveling companion. When I think of self defense, I always go back to the conflict that brought the .45 to our nations troops, after the 38 service revolver failed to stop the warriors high on their native drugs, but the .45 proved to be a man stopper. When your life depends on it, I always think that stopping the aggressor is the name of the game, weather that is killing or just disabeling, it makes no difference, if the attack is stopped and your or your loved ones lives are no longer in danger. in today's world it just makes sense to carry a side arm with you at all times when you are away from home, and keeping one within your grasp when you are sleeping.
Wow, I'd HATE to be an American who has to walk, drive, and even sleep with a loaded gun at hand. What makes you think you are in a combat zone all the time? Or is it the gun press, constantly egging us on to buy, carry, use, store, conceal a weapon everywhere. No "freedom" in that. The "right to bear arms (and it meant a musket!!!) doesn't mean you HAVE to bear arms every waking moment! Yes a cop should be armed, at least in dangerous USA, but still, to have to lug around a handgun ALL the time- is like insuring your house on a hillside, against floods, tsunamis, volcanos, theft (of the house itself) all to enrich the insurance company, because they "sold" you on the perceived possible risk!
Lofts Sympatico I think you should look at the history of the 2nd amendment. They knew of Gatling guns and multi-barreled guns at the time as well. Don’t forget “shall not be infringed”
Amazing all these Seattle people with stories! I worked a a gun shop on 1st Ave in downtown Seattle, Central Sporting Goods. We were well know at the time for having a Gatling gun on display! I also remember a .600 Nitro Express!! A gentleman came in and showed us an early prototype of the Detonics .45. We were all very impressed!!
I was able to fire one of the stainless models during the late 80s. It performed well for me but the acquisition cost of the owner was quite high. A series 80 Colt combat commander was more affordable and I shot better groups with it. The Colt Officer's model became available a few years later and folks here bought it for concealed carry. They no longer asked about the Detonics pistol. Nice presentation Sir!
Jeff Cooper said that the scalloped Slide was at the Request of an Early Purchaser who didn't understand the practical and moral necessity to carry 1911A1s Cocked and Locked. I bought a second hand Detonics back in the mid 80s. Some Boeotian had put a Commander Hammer and a Shotgun Glow Worm Sight on it. I still have the scar from the Hammer bite to this day. To be fair, Mel Tappan said not to buy one with a serial number below 2000. I think that mine must have been in the 1400s but the price was right. The gun was a mess. The only time that it didn't jam was when it doubled. ONCE it didn't jam and I had become so inured to the almost invariable necessity to wrack the slide that I wracked a live cartridge out onto the ground. They came out with the first 3" S&W .44 Magnum around then and I palmed the useless POS onto a Northern Gun Dealer. The Detonics and $75 Boot bought me a neat little revolver. I don't know if the Detonics Inventor was aware of the book-but if you diligently followed Major Nonte's directions how to "Chop-and-Channel" a1911A1 in "Pistolsmithing" you'd get a Gun much like the Detonics. I wish that it was easier to get a 70 Series style Officers' Model Frame with a Commander Slide And Barrel. I could hide an AMT Longslide in my Pants. It's the blessed Handle that sometimes prints through a shirt. Could you do one on the STAR PD soon? I wish that I'd bought a couple or three Star PDs-and BMs and BKMs back in the day. I wish that Star had thought to offer a steel-frame version. Bulk worries me far more than weight. Jeff Cooper opined that the Star could have been built around Standard Government Model Magazines for another round and much cheaper magazines… But Anyway, he said that it would take a very minor tweaking of the dimensions if designed with that objective in mind. …..RVM45
My best friend owned one in the early 80's. I had a National Match. Qualified expert at PI with the Colt, then, "qualified" expert with the Detonics by asking the Range Master to overlook the pistol. An excellent piece of engineering. Semper fi.
Just browsing led me to this. About 20ish years ago I shot one owned by a local indoor range owner. Since then I wanted one and about 7 years ago came across a MK VI in box w/papers. Has Pachmayrs instead of original wood but for $450 I thought it was a steal. Nothing like stumbling on something like that that you've really wanted for so long.
mrweeby1961 Great story. I have what I believe is a blued finish MK1, which I purchased in 1996 for $500.00. I’ve been picking up factory magazines every so often thru out the years if I found one for a good price, usually they’ve been $40.00 -$65.00, but it’s been 10 years or so since I got the last one & it seems like they’re not around much anymore, at least not for that price. Good Day to You!
4 years ago, I was at a Turners in the city of Reseda CA, and saw what I though was a Detonics, what it was was a Colt 1991a1 officer's model, for $600.00 best purchased I ever made, it's a beautiful gun and shoots very nice.
I had that one, nice little shooter! I thought with the short barrel it would be all over the target but it hit what you aimed at. Oh and it fit in my jeans back pocket :)
Thanks, I had no idea Detonics were this innovative! It's indeed remarkable when you see something commonplace, "modern" and "current" today implemented for the first time, just as a solution to a problem.
i have 2! and a couple of Des Moines Iowa police officers carry one. i also have my dad's old service master! cool seeing one of the early models of a gun i have on auction
My last firearms purchase was several years back. I had plans to go nomadic in our Class A Motor Home, and wanted a smaller .45 to carry in the rig, and concealed since I have my CCL. My brother-in-law and I were going to a local gun show, and on the way in, I told him the story of the Detonics .45, saying that I was looking for something along that line. I had been really OUT of the gun world for nearly 20 years, and had no idea what would be on the tables in the show, however after searching all the tables, mostly filled with beat up 9mm's and some newer crap .32's and 380's, I came upon just what I was looking for. A short barrel, cut down M1911A1 (my first love in handguns!) in like new condition, in a nice Don Hume holster with extra magazine! She was marked Citadel and as I say I had been out of the firearms world for quite some time, but she looked to be exactly what I was looking for. I looked up at the fellow behind the counter and saw the gentleman who had come to my home over 15 years before and purchased the last of my firearms collection, when I was on the verge of bankruptcy fighting Workers Comp. Well he knew he had got a great deal on my collection, so gave me a break on the price of the little gun, and I still carry her today. I have fired the hell out of her and never found a stoppage, so I have grown to trust her. Now all I ever fed her were some Mexican made 230 grain Hardball because that was what I purchased nearly 30 years ago when I left the gun business and gave up my FFL. The ammo is military grade and still shoots great. So while I never found my Detonics, I am happy with the little guy that I did come across, in a size I was looking for. She isn't nearly as light as my old STAR PD but then she is much better built as far as I can tell. Thanks for the great videos, they take me back to the days when I had an FFL and Shotgun News was my catalog of choice.
I worked at Detonics for about a year.... if you ever find a Detonics .45 with the serial number +6768, that was my shop built employee gun... Loved that gun... it got stolen...
I remember Johnson using it in Miami Vice but I always thought even being a subcompact that 45 was an awfully hefty thing to have strapped to your ankle. I'd think it would make him walk funny.
Don Johnson also helped increase the popularity of Glaco's Jackass shoulder holster, as it was the holster Rick Gallagher (then president of Galco gunleather) personally fitted him with when Miami Vice started its run on tv. Each time Crockett got a new pistol, Galco modified the holster as needed. In honor of its popularity with fans of the show, Galco renamed it the Miami Classic and it is still made today.
Sonny Crockett carried one of these as a backup gun in an ankle holster on Miami Vice. For his primary weapon, he carried a Bren Ten in Seasons 1 & 2, a S&W 645 in Seasons 3 & 4, and a S&W 4506 in Season 5. I never got a Bren Ten but I was able to buy a S&W 645 which I still have :-)
The tab sticking out of the magazine is also cool because like some modern guns do with that as an intentional feature, you can tell at a glance if the mag is full or not, especially if the magazine is in a pouch or pocket so that you can't see the side, ie. The holes that let you see the rounds within
Star were doing it in the 1940's with some of their 1911 style pistols like the Model S 380, Ian did a video last year I think showing the exact same thing with the Star S. A neat solution and creative marketing by Detonics
At about 4:45 your explanation about that gap in the floorplate of the magazine answered a confounding dilemma of an acquaintance who had one of these guns back in the heyday. He lost the original magazine and hired a local gunsmith to make another by cutting down a standard GI surplus magazine and rewelding the floorplate to the body. Not being aware of the necessity for the gap the replacement magazine looked ok and fit flush but was a disappointing 5 cartridge capacity.
There was a custom build for T2 using a Combat Master slide on a full-sized Detonics or Colt frame with a 5 or 6" compensated barrel. Incidentally, the mix-master Detonics/Series 70 the Terminator used also got me turned on to 1911s in a big way.
Nice one Ian! I recall reading a series of post-apocalyptic novels in the 1980s where the hero carried a couple of Detonics in twin shoulder holsters (as well as a LOT of other guns). Cannot for the life of me remember what the books were called though....
Back in the early 80's I desperately tried to find a Detonics .45. My carry weapon was a full size Colt Mark IV, Series 70, and I wanted smaller pistol that packed the same punch. I was never able to find one. One gun store owner told me "If i could find one, I'd keep it for myself." Today, I have a Kimber stainless Ultra Carry II, and I am very pleased with it. The Detonics is still a fine weapon, but now they are collector's items that command well over $1000 up to several thousand. The Kimber also holds 7 rounds in the mag instead of 6. I also think that the grip safety is a good feature to have.
Inspired by the Detonics pistol in the 70s three of us were able to build 3 pistols like the Detonics. We used Aluminum ranger frames as they could easily be cut down. We used surplus parts. We cut one of the locking lugs from the barrel. We used the bushing in a cut down slide. We used cut down springs. We also did away with the grip safety. I used a home made guide rod on my spring. We packetized the completed pistols. They work. The finished appearance is not bad either. We bought Detonics magazines for carry.
Jerry Ahern's character John Thomas Rourke carried 2 of them in an Alessi shoulder holster. Hard to find books today, but if you like equipment details. The books read like a user manual for most of the books.
I remember reading about a Detonics Officers .451 Magnum 1911 years ago. The case was stretched out so you couldn't load the .451 Magnum ammo into a standard .45 ACP Magazine. For whatever reason I've always wanted one but so far never had the opportunity to purchase one. It was a pretty powerful round for it's day.
Ehh, .450SMC would also do the job, and it's no harder on the weapon than .45+P. I'd rather shoot the .450SMC in a carbine, though. most of the extra power is really wasted in a pistol-length barrel.
The Detonics (not certain which specific model) was also featured in Robert E. Bailey's Art Hardin series (see Amazon or B&N, e.g.): Private Heat, Dead Bang, Dying Embers.
Ian, you need to locate a Star PD .45 Auto next. It was something of a "competitor" to the Detonics. Sort of. Lots of cops I knew kept a Star PD as a backup gun because it was so much lighter than the steel framed Detonics.
The STAR PD in 45 ACP came out the year before the Detonics company was formed! I presume you mean "the first of the compact 45's" manufactured in America?
I can now proudly say I own an early(welded frame) MK1. Some may think it sacrilegious but it was modified by a previous owner, it now has both a beavertail and a bobtail. Neat handy little sucker, working on reliability though, I'd like to carry it but it's not quite there yet.
All of my reliability issues, after getting things like extractor tension sorted, have been related to springs; if the mag springs or recoil springs are getting tired, it will start to malf, and I mean, in the span of two or three mags, it will go from running perfectly to not running at all.
@@kimisdaman This is with a Detonics Combat Master? My reliabilty issues were caused by an aftermarket slide release that wasn't quiet fit right. I need to put more rounds through it to be sure, but it's doing better. I can of course certainly see how it'd be spring sensitive, but less so compared to an officer pattern 1911.
@@snek9353 Yeah, I've put about 5000 rounds through mine (20 years), and new springs every 500 rounds keeps it running right. There's a guy on g-broker selling triple recoil spring sets like the originals.
@@kimisdaman Bill in Bellevue? I'd like to try some other timing tricks as well. In particular going to a squared off firing pin retainer. This should slow the slide dramatically allowing for less recoil spring. When I was looking for the guy you mentioned for springs I saw some of the prices for other Combat Masters. 8 months ago I paid $1000 for this sucker. I thought I paid too much but there was no wiggle room and it was the right piece. Now I'm thinking I got a good deal. Having been modified it doesn't have collector value I guess. But it's certainly much more user friendly and whoever did the work did a very good job.
@@snek9353 There's a guy on g-broker who's trying to drive the Combat Master market, pricing his dozen CMs at three or four times what they generally sell for; a refinished, mill-run gun for $2500? I've had a small-radius FPS in my gun for 15+ years, and recommend them for all "1911s". The Harrison Design part is already radiused, if you don't want to mess with that aspect of fitting.
The locking system can be either cut so it travels less to unlock (plus a new spring weight and buffer ) or it can be viewed the propper way. Like a gear in an engine the rotation can be increased or decreased through simple reduction system. If anybody ever asks me why i havent dont anything i talk about. Money . i just dont have the money to get tooling and a building for the tooling to make a prototype...Let alone the multiples i have in mind and then R and D after.
Man I used to wish I had one of those! I recall reading about them in Guns and Ammo back in the day. I never could afford such a sweet firearm, but I tried, I picked up a Star PD model, she was a bit larger, but cut down compared to the M1911A1, also had a BM and BKM Stars in 9mm at one time. The last M1911A1 that I bought was the compact Citadel in .45ACP, she is a sweet little gun but weighs a ton compared to the old Star PD, but that weight is nice when it comes to taming the recoil of the gun. With the right rig you can carry the little fellow well concealed in the cooler months, a bit harder in the hot summer, but I did find a rather nice but warm wrap around sort of back brace type holster that will fit nicely under a T-Shirt and holds not only the .45 but two extra magazines as well. Where there is a will there is indeed a way.
The Detonics compacts are very intriguing pistols. I have seen several over the years for sale at gun shows- at a premium. The only thing I feel looks "wonky" on them is the rear sight placed so far forward on the slide. You should do a video on the Randall 1911.
Had one, thing would jam on the third round. It would stovepipe on everytime on that third round and for that reason I got rid of it. Very accurate for such a small barrel
$800 hammer price is almost criminal! That pistol is in like new shape and ready to serve someone for years to come. I think I have to find a cry room now.
I worked at the Detonics manufacturing plant in Bellevue, WA between 1980 and 1983! I worked in the sales and marketing department and really enjoyed planning for and attending trade shows including the annual NRA Shows, S.H.O.T. Shows, and NASGW Shows! I had great fun showing guys how I could field strip a Combat Master in under five seconds! Unfortunately, we had a pretty low advertising budget, but we had pretty respectable sales despite the high price of the units! It was really great fun and I met and worked with some great people, including my husband of now 40 years, Ray Herriott!
Lovely story!
Thanks for being part of the team who produced these wonderful guns. I have a Bellevue version.
Are you familiar with Tinker Talks Guns? If not you should check him out.
I had an enjoyable evening 2nd shift visit to the Detonics Bellevue machine shop at a time when a former co-worker of mine worked there as a machinist in the late 70's. We both were career machinist, so it was of particular interest for me. Nice clean smooth-running shop with a well-armed staff.
That’s pretty cool!
Great review! I was privileged to be in on the "ground floor" of Detonics's introduction of their compact .45. As a result of our mutual involvement in unlimited hydroplane racing (me, a Seattle Police officer, as part of Seattle's Seafair Unlimited Race Team - Sid Woodcock, as security for Jim Clapp's revolutionary turbine powered U-95 hydroplane) Sid and I formed a friendship.
To listened to Sid at that time (1973), he was the sole inspiration and designer behind the Detonics .45. This, we now know, was not the case. He, along with Detonics Corporation, were simply the owners of the patents, previously designed by others. Sid was the "front man" for Detonics and they needed a story behind the development of their firearm. Sid provided it and he did so quite well. That being said, Sid did see the potential behind the design/patents and was instrumental in bringing to production the finished product.
I owned one of the very first Detonics .45 ever produced. I sold it and "upgraded," a few years later (when they were still a Seattle based company), to the all stainless steel "Professional Model" when the stainless guns were first introduced. I have that gun today (number 50 of the first stainless steel offerings). As a result of my friendship with Sid Woodcock he personally supervised the construction of my gun, number 50 of the stainless series, providing me with extra magazines, interchangeable sights and interchangeable recoil springs to accommodate the use of lower powered .45 target ammunition.
There are many stories I could tell about my friend, Sid Woodcock, and the birth of the Detoncis .45. To do so I would be up all night responding to your excellent review!!!
I have one in a Stainless steel compact stamped patient pending on it don't know how old it is or how to date it's age
Don Martin fascinating! Thanks for sharing that 👍
Thank you for your service to the people,now and days police officers get a bad reputation,but they are people too and they put themselves in between the good guys and the bad guys on a daily basis and I commend you for that.That's very cool that you knew Sid Woodcock and we're his friend.
I spent some time with a guy who was involved in both the Seattle and Georgia Detonics, and he told me some stories. He was presented with two extractors, asked to evaluate them, expressed his preference and was told, "Sorry, the other one is a nickel cheaper." He said they were constantly trying to save pennies on the manufacturing side, while at headquarters they were driving Ferraris and "lighting their cigars with $100 bills".
Please, share more of your lovely stories, dear Don Martin
Given that the hammer price was $800, what did the rest of the pistol sell for?
Sheriff 001 ba-dum-tsh
Funny shit right there.
@@s.marcus3669 Huh? Anyone anywhere, of any age that knows what an auction is will understand.
@@OneEyeDollar6
Its mostly for gun connosieurs, ask someone who is a gun iliterate what a hammer is and they will have no clue
@@A-G-F- Gun literacy is not specific to "Americans of certain age and intelligence".
I for one am happy to see the return of the Forgotten Weapons Precision Gunsmith Tool.
Same here.
I explain this timing issue all the time and people scoff at it but it's absolutely true.
+Mrgunsngear Channel Seems pretty common sense to me. If you change slide weights your going to have to change springs too.
people are dumb. John Moses Browning did all the math and experimenting to get the timing perfect.....once you change the slide length, spring weights, ect.....you have a completely new gun and have to work out all the bugs. now it's less reliable and more finicky.
I don't trust anything smaller than a Commander size 1911. not saying they don't work....they're less forgiving of worn springs and magazines
ur finding defears when u need engin ears lol
probably because they don't care.
It's of course true, but it is a stand out feature of the Detonics. While the Detonics was the first and actually smaller(grip is shorter) the other small 1911s that came later are inferior timing wise. The slide stroke length on a Detonics Combat Master is longer than on an officer model or one of the many clones. On an officer pattern 1911 the slide only travels far enough back for the breach face to just clear the magazine well. On a Detonics the slide still travels far enough back to clear the disconnector.
This difference makes the Detonics much more reliable than an officer pattern 1911. Officer pattern 1911s are very magazine sensitive as there's not enough dwell time where the breach is open and they outrun the magazine. The Detonics does not have this problem.
I carry an original cut/welded frame MK1, it's a reliable firearm when well maintained and ya just can't get more punch in a smaller package.
There's much more detail to what makes the Detonics uniquely good.
I first heard of these pistols in a book series called "The Survivalist", in the mid to late '70s. The protagonist wore a brace of them at all times and, of course, performed incredible feats of legerdemain both with and without them in the traditional Doc Savage style. The books went the usual route from, "Oh my!" to, "You gotta be kidding me" with ,"WTF?" following soon thereafter. This is the first time I've actually seen one outside of Johnson's fist and it appears to be competent for the job.
Jerry Ahern is gone now but I learned about these weapons the very same way.
That was my Detonics Combat Master that sold. Yes, same serial number and I cleansed the grips and treated with Danish oil. Very nice book matched wood. I still have the original Owner’s Manual and a Detonics ad piece.
Thanks for this video. The Detonics .45ACP pistol was a very sought after handgun by Law Enforcement Officers of the day who were looking for a modern, compact, large caliber semi-automatic handgun for off duty, undercover, and where allowable by department/agency rules, plainclothes carry. I know several now retired LEOs who still own and carry their Detonics pistols on a daily basis.
+FD Mackey Yeah, first thing i thought about this was backup. Instantly.
Back in my detective days, while, if memory serves, I was toting a Rem-Rand 1911 A-1 on my hip, another fellow who worked for the same city (in Maintenance, I think) asked if I'd ever heard of a Detonics Combat Master. I told him I'd drooled on many but never owned one. He met me our firing range shortly there after, once he'd clocked out with his PAIR of Combat Masters (in a nice but couldn't have been comfortable double holster holding them cavalry draw at about 5:00 and 7:00).
I got to shoot them as much as I wanted that day. Which, honestly wasn't a whole lot. They were plenty accurate, totally reliable with what we fed them (he, I believe, said he'd never had a problem with them) and the cool factor was off the charts. But those things had some healthy recoil. Shooting them was really a cool experience and I was grateful but it wasn't something I'd want to do a lot (and if I carried them, I'd be shooting them a lot in practice aside from annual qualifications). Frankly they were downright unpleasant little beasts to shoot. But, if I saw one today for an insanely low price would I but it? Yep. Would I carry it? Yep. Would I say "Ouch! Dammit!" every time I shot it? Yep. Would that stop me or even give me pause? Nope. :)
Detonics: Making tiny 1911s before it was a fad. :)
Ian, I have to say your channel is awesome. Your presentation and knowledge have me interested in guns I wouldn't normally be. Thank you.
Great video, as always. This pistol also achieved a degree of fame in a series of books called The Survivalist by Jerry Ahern. Throughout the series the phrase "twin Detonics in Alessi dual shoulder holsters" seems to be used at least once per chapter.
Michael Emberley Yes! I’ve read that whole series & actually forgot about the mentioning of the shoulder holster. However I do remember the “Milt Sparks Six Pack” was also mentioned a lot. If I remember, the character John Rourke got the Six Pack as a gift or something like that, from someone he ran across on his journey he embarked on after the smoke cleared from the destruction that happened across the world. Now that I think about it, the movie “The Book of Eli” with Denzel Washington has a similar theme to it like the character in the book series. Good Day to You!
A bit odd that one would use shoulder holsters for Detonics though, given how compact they are. It would be very easy to carry them in the waistband, vest pocket, coat pocket, or pants pocket. Pretty much anywhere else, really. When I think shoulder holster, I think of larger guns.
I remember first reading about Detonics in a series of books called The Survivalist series.
+John Smith I mostly remember the brand name because Officer Tackleberry had one in Police Academy 2. Who's with me? :)
yup John Rourke carried a pair of CombatMasters along with a Colt Python, a CAR 15, and a Steyr SSG I believe! I loved the Survivalist books!
ZGryphon -Yeah his was a Scoremaster, as he explained to his motor partner
Bagley0759 Yes he sure did! I have a blued Combat Master, probably late 1970’s vintage. When they started being re-produced in Georgia, I talked with a guy on the phone down there about what the new magazines for them would be like. I think his name was Peter Dunn. He said he was actually around when they were being made in Seattle. I gave him my serial number range and he said it was late 1970’s vintage. Great guy to talk with. Wasn’t in a hurry to get off the phone & very knowledgeable, obviously. I carried it as a off duty weapon in civilian L.E. for over 25 years, then ended up going to a Colt Defender, just because of the weight difference with the alloy frame. My old bones with arthritis really noticed the difference right away. By the way, I’ve read & still have all of the Survivalist paper back books from the 1980’s. Good Day to You!
Same here, I loved those books back in the day.
$600-$800? That's in the realm of affordability!
Crazy, right?
+tenhundredkills Considering new commander sized 1911's go at an MSRP of $1200 and up. Don't forget this particular weapon has historical significance in the lineage of the 1911 so I would say $600 to $800 is a steal. Can I afford that? Not really, I'm not into collecting, but still I consider it a steal. I would not be surprised to see this pistol sell for much more. Time will tell. Ian's been updating video comments with hammer prices. I hope he continues to do so.
+William Hayden I gotta agree. With the pistol being up for auction, there's the possibility that a couple of fanatical collectors will bid to the death for it! On the other hand, maybe no one will even bother with it. If I didn't have to go to school full time, I'd be jumping all over this gun!
+tenhundredkills my dad god a rock island officer model for 450 at a gun show. new
NIB Colts were $600 in the late 70s early 80s
Cute - and it retains 1911's classical charm!
+Jason “cyberspace entity” Doe I personally don't find the 1911 charming. It was grate for it's time, but it's weight, low magazine size, and finicky maintenance requirements make it a poor choice in most modern scenarios, professional or not. It is a damn pretty gun, though.
James Beale Who? Is that your petname for your strawman?
SnarfTheHoovySlayer Well, I mostly meant it in terms of aesthetics :)
+SnarfTheHoovySlayer heresy I say. browning's design is practically perfect in every way.
+SnarfTheHoovySlayer Maintenance requirements? You think it's an M9 or an XM16? As for weight, it's less than half a pound heavier than a Beretta 92FS or Hi Power; all steel and it also has a longer/wider barrel. As for capacity, it's a single stack, as was standard for decades and decades after it was designed. It's partially thanks to this quality as to why it's such a thin design compared to modern double stack pistols. Why it feels so natural in the hand.
It's much easier to carry concealed than something like a double stack Glock, all while using the beefy .45 ACP. It's also very easy to do a full disassembly on a Mil Spec M1911 than just about any modern double stack design. I can take mine down entirely without the use of tools, and have actually done so twice while blind folded; first time took 45 minutes, second time took half an hour.
There's a reason why some people still carry the M1911 design, and indeed why the M1911 design is still in service to this day. It's proven itself time and time again. Accurate, reliable, ergonomic, easy to maintain, maintenance itself isn't a hugely important issue, and anyone with bit of time on their hands can learn the internal workings of the design so as to become their own gunsmith. It would be all too easy for me to replace the hammer, trigger, mag release, sear, disconnect, mainspring housing, or what have you, all without the use of any tools.
The weight doesn't bother me yet I've got a stainless steel model; Springfield Armoury Mil Spec. I hear it's one of the heavier models available, just looked it up, apparently 39oz with an empty mag, which is 2.43lb, or about 1.1kg. 230gr ball .45 ACP is about 21 rounds per pound, so add in 7 rounds, and we're looking at about 2.76lb or around 1.25kg. We're not talking about a 4lb Desert Eagle here. Even WWII mil spec models made 70+ years ago have been taken to about 72m (80yd) at Hickok45's compound, so you clearly don't need a souped up $2000 model just to get decent accuracy. If there were reliability issues, something tells me it would have been discovered at some point in the past 104 years.
No, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one; the M1911 design is old, but it is not a poor choice "in most modern scenarios, professional or not." It's not the only pistol I own either; I also have a Hi Power and CZ-75 Pre-B for double stack designs, and for single stack, P38 and TT33. I find I just seem to inherently shoot better with the P38, but it's such an outrageously wide design for a single stack, and I hate the slide mounted safety. Even if I owned a Beretta 92FS or M9, I definitely believe I'd still hold the M1911 as my personal favourite pistol, with the Hi Power being my favourite 9mm pistol. Everyone has their preferences of course.
The Glock 21 is of course lighter, and has higher capacity, as well as a simpler field strip, but I've handled a Glock before. I definitely prefer the M1911's ergonomics, I appreciate the ease of which it can be completely disassembled (right down to the magazine release spring which I use the leaf spring to remove), and having that manual safety there adds a layer of comfort, as well as being able to cock/decock the design at a whim not to mention able to visually see whether it's cocked or not. Little details, but for some, it's the details that make the difference.
I WANT one! The .45 acp hand gun is probably one of the best working hand guns made.A smaller one like the Detonics is a must have.Thank you for a great video!
Jerry Ahern the author of the survivalist series of books also used these for his hero in the series. This was where I had first heard about them. And I also believe that he also had a hand in developing these guns if I'm not mistaken. But great video! I had never seen anything on these guns up until now. Thanks Ian for an informative video as always!
Me Too,
and he also wrote for gun magazines
The other .45 pistol that was getting attention about the same time as the Detonics, was the Star PD. It was one of the first ultra-lightweight 1911-style pistols, plus it was relatively compact. If there was any fault to the Detonics design it was that it was a very heavy piece.
So...Ian...what do you think of the Detonics MkI that you reviewed? This was my pistol that went up for auction at RIA. I never fired the pistol and I acquired it from a doctor friend of mine that was going through a messy divorce and it was unfired when it bought it from him. I also own a Detonics Scoremaster that I used in IPSC competition...still have it and it is in excellent condition. Detonics was way ahead of its time...mastering the galling issues with stainless steel and using a flared bushingless barrel. Very accurate pistols.
I love this gun this was my favorite carry gun for over a decade before I finally switched to a Glock 27. I still enjoy taking it out and shooting it. With practice this gun was remarkably accurate. I don't know what there was about this gun but it's just seems to be at least for me one of the most natural Quick Draw point and shoot guns I've ever had.
Likewise.
I remember reading early reviews of the Detonics subcompacts. The gun writers of the day talked about the stout recoil and how difficult a subcompact pistol in a serious caliber was to handle. They were recommended only for real professionals who had a serious need.
Now we've got small pistols in more potent calibers and nobody bats an eye. Times and perceptions have certainly changed!
I don't know man, tiny guns in big calibres still suck. Have you tried shooting a tiny, lightweight .357 Mag snubbie? Or a baby Glock in 10mm? You can buy those guns, and carry them for defense, but very few people have the wrists to properly practice with those. I'm not convinced that the increase in calibre is worth the decrease in usability.
That said, this particular gun looks shootable enough. A decent steel frame should tame those .45s, even in the smaller package. If this was polymer framed, that would be a different story.
@@gabrielfraser2109 Can't believe a .357 snubby is any more unpleasant on the receiving end than it is for the shooter!
I remember hearing and think it was on this channel about the Bren 10 automatic that Cockett's character carried on the show and that it was in .45 caliber, so it would make sense for him to carry a similar gun that would also use the same ammo. I remember reading a police survival manual stating that if you carry a backup gun it should use the same ammo as the service gun you carry.
schizoidboy Actually the Bren Ten they initially used in the series was a 10mm. After so many episodes, someone decided it was sort of impractical for a detective to carry a Bren Ten, so they changed Crockett’s sidearm to a S&W 645, .45ACP. The Detonics was a stainless model, meaning I guess it would be lighter for carrying in the ankle holster. Good Day to You!
@@tierone4761 Actually, there were no 10mm blanks in Hollywood, so Sonny's Bren was a .45.
Love the video. I remember first hearing about the Detonics pistols when i read the Survivalist book series
Chisato's sidearm from Lycoris Recoil.
Actually the magazine followers sticking out the bottom of the fully loaded magazine was sold as a feature letting you know at a glance or a quick feel, that the magazine was loaded up to capacity
- other custom makers of sub-compact 1911's were selling shortened magazines without the follower sticking out the bottom. I have one and with hardball ammo it's reliable but with CCI's flying ashtray load not so much - many of us carried it with a HP round up the spout and magazine of hardball.
I think it was some clever engineering, slapped with some clever marketing.
When Pat Yates designed the prototype his intent was one handed cocking on the draw thus the lowered hammer and cut Slide ( shorter reach for the thumb ) not to fan the gun also his prototype featured no safety at all - thumb safety removed only a stiffer firing pin spring and to reassure himself of that he conducted drop tests to 8 foot, on another note the barrel on my 1977 production gun is labeled Colt 45 Auto NM Mk IV Series 70 and the barrel flair is welded to the Colt Barrel ..... Thank you so much for the Video's I watch religiously
You forgot to mention the the egg shape slide barrel hole. It creates a "tri-pod" effect, which brings the bell shape barrel back to battery after each shot. The duel spring also dampen recoil.
Saw this a couple weeks ago and wanted very badly to jump on it. Good luck to anyone who is making a bid, it's surprisingly affordable and a very attractive pistol
Thanks for the look at this! Along with the ASP-to which you did great service-this was was one of the must get, can't live without, pistols that I never got, and have learned to live without. If you ever get your hands on a Fitz Special, you will have covered the triumvirate of my youthful carry desires.
These days, it seems like you live at the Rock Island Auction House.
+Elijah Decker Then he can make more videos. yaysies
+Elijah Decker I know, but when they already do the work of finding rare and interesting guns for him, it's hard not to take up the opportunity.
In reality, we all basically live where we work, we just sleep somewhere else.
Vomit The Soul Good point.
+Shoes Don't forget Ian provides a very valuable service to the auction houses as well by providing video footage of these firearms as well as historical and/or interesting information. That makes the value of these firearms easier for buyers to ascertain and thus sell. Ian is in a word is an asset. It's a relationship that benefits us all. :)
ill never understand why people dislike your videos ian! lol. you explain and articulate so much info on these guns and do such a good job doing it, how can anyone dislike your stuf?? haha keep it up boss.
who doesn't like his videos? communist?
I owned one in Stainless in the late 70s. A very well made gun, nice to carry for personal protection. AND, it did shoot well!
I used to read some mercenary pulp fiction in the late 70s. The protagonist had a pair of Detonics .45s. They had Pachmayr grips and were "ramped and sloped". Whatever the hell that means.
crpope10 mack bolan?
ramped= The feed " ramp" of the barrel was polished to a mirror sheen. Sloped could refer to 2 things: tightening of the action for accuracy or it could refer to the "slope" cut at the rear sight on the Detonics combat master. both were factory upgrades done to all Combat Masters.
My Jerry Ahern era Georga Made Detonics USA stainless Combat Master came from the factory exceptionally well fitted and with a perfect barrel, I build 1911's as a hobby (once as a profession and I really have no room to improve upon the work that was done from the factory.
I'll go out on a limb here and say for the record: *"The Georga manufactured Detonics Pistols were some of the finest "factory" 1911's and derivatives ever made bar NONE."* ESPECIALLY for the price paid.
Mainly because each and every one was treated like a full custom shop 1911 hand fitted and no attention to detail spared.
Santos Salinas, The Survivalist by Jerry Ahern. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Survivalist_(novel_series)
@@santossalinas4221 😆😆 I remember them!
I believe that was the Mack Bolan series
This was a very interesting video. Detonics was truly ahead of it's time. A high school friend of mine who became a police officer around 1979 or so carried a reduced size 45 as his off duty carry as well, however it was a Star PD.
They are great guns I carried one for about ten years before I finely replaced it with a glock 27. I still enjoy taking it out a shooting it from time to time.
That captive recoil spring... What beautiful engineering! In my limited experience with semi-auto pistols, the one I handled did not have a captive spring.
Thanks for the video. I have seen the Detonics pistols over the years but didn't know much about them. Seems like a very cool little 45acp.
I have one of these...im 50 bought it when I was 20 or so... lives in the safe. Mine runs like a champ.
I recall that Combat Handguns magazine covered these during the 1980's, amongst other minimised, larger calibre handguns.
It's nice to see this one in your superb video series.
Cool. Between reviewing the Bren Ten and this you've got Crockett covered.
Peter Dunn is the man who took the idea to perfection. He then made changes for the better once the company moved to Georgia
I was going to comment about the Miami Vice connection with these pistols, but you took care of that for me. Thanks Ian, you did a very thorough job!
I remember this little weapon from the comic strip PUNISHER. Specifically, the PUNISHER ARMORY issue, which I bought when I was a teenager. I never really got into comics, but I was a budding gun nut, so that issue caught my eye and may wallet. This would have been around 1992.
Wow sold for a very reasonable price. I recall reading about this pistol when it first came out, oh how I drooled at the thought of such a small .45ACP. The 45 has always been my cartridge of choice when I was on the police force, I am a large man at 6'2'' weighing in at a bit over 230 pounds so the M1911A1 looked just right carried on my duty belt. In my search for an off duty weapon in the same caliber of my on duty, I managed to find a cheap Star PD, and carried that for off duty carry for many years. When I didn't have that, I simply carried my 1911. Over the years I did experiment with other off duty guns, including a small Chief's Special Smith, and a few European .380's. I always had a small .22 for target shooting, and some larger ones including the Ruger .22, and some others such as the Arminius revolver in .22 but I always came back to the .45. I ended up carrying an Astra A100 in .45ACP for a duty gun, and now am pleased to own a small Citadel in .45ACP for concealed carry and as my traveling companion. When I think of self defense, I always go back to the conflict that brought the .45 to our nations troops, after the 38 service revolver failed to stop the warriors high on their native drugs, but the .45 proved to be a man stopper. When your life depends on it, I always think that stopping the aggressor is the name of the game, weather that is killing or just disabeling, it makes no difference, if the attack is stopped and your or your loved ones lives are no longer in danger. in today's world it just makes sense to carry a side arm with you at all times when you are away from home, and keeping one within your grasp when you are sleeping.
Wow, I'd HATE to be an American who has to walk, drive, and even sleep with a loaded gun at hand. What makes you think you are in a combat zone all the time? Or is it the gun press, constantly egging us on to buy, carry, use, store, conceal a weapon everywhere. No "freedom" in that. The "right to bear arms (and it meant a musket!!!) doesn't mean you HAVE to bear arms every waking moment!
Yes a cop should be armed, at least in dangerous USA, but still, to have to lug around a handgun ALL the time- is like insuring your house on a hillside, against floods, tsunamis, volcanos, theft (of the house itself) all to enrich the insurance company, because they "sold" you on the perceived possible risk!
Lofts Sympatico Its a freedom to carry a firearm legally. There is nothing wrong with it.
@@loftsatsympaticodotc Not only that, millions of crimes are stopped with firearms.
Lofts Sympatico I think you should look at the history of the 2nd amendment. They knew of Gatling guns and multi-barreled guns at the time as well. Don’t forget “shall not be infringed”
@@loftsatsympaticodotc .....here's the reason......when seconds count, the police are only a mere few minutes away......
Amazing all these Seattle people with stories! I worked a a gun shop on 1st Ave in downtown Seattle, Central Sporting Goods. We were well know at the time for having a Gatling gun on display! I also remember a .600 Nitro Express!!
A gentleman came in and showed us an early prototype of the Detonics .45. We were all very impressed!!
I have a Colt 1911 Officer in .45acp. Its a blast to shoot. Not super accurate but its fun. Love how they did the conical barrel.
I was able to fire one of the stainless models during the late 80s. It performed well for me but the acquisition cost of the owner was quite high. A series 80 Colt combat commander was more affordable and I shot better groups with it.
The Colt Officer's model became
available a few years later and folks here bought it for concealed carry. They no longer asked about the Detonics pistol. Nice presentation Sir!
Jeff Cooper said that the scalloped Slide was at the Request of an Early Purchaser who didn't understand the practical and moral necessity to carry 1911A1s Cocked and Locked. I bought a second hand Detonics back in the mid 80s. Some Boeotian had put a Commander Hammer and a Shotgun Glow Worm Sight on it. I still have the scar from the Hammer bite to this day. To be fair, Mel Tappan said not to buy one with a serial number below 2000. I think that mine must have been in the 1400s but the price was right. The gun was a mess. The only time that it didn't jam was when it doubled. ONCE it didn't jam and I had become so inured to the almost invariable necessity to wrack the slide that I wracked a live cartridge out onto the ground. They came out with the first 3" S&W .44 Magnum around then and I palmed the useless POS onto a Northern Gun Dealer. The Detonics and $75 Boot bought me a neat little revolver.
I don't know if the Detonics Inventor was aware of the book-but if you diligently followed Major Nonte's directions how to "Chop-and-Channel" a1911A1 in "Pistolsmithing" you'd get a Gun much like the Detonics. I wish that it was easier to get a 70 Series style Officers' Model Frame with a Commander Slide And Barrel. I could hide an AMT Longslide in my Pants. It's the blessed Handle that sometimes prints through a shirt.
Could you do one on the STAR PD soon? I wish that I'd bought a couple or three Star PDs-and BMs and BKMs back in the day. I wish that Star had thought to offer a steel-frame version. Bulk worries me far more than weight. Jeff Cooper opined that the Star could have been built around Standard Government Model Magazines for another round and much cheaper magazines…
But Anyway, he said that it would take a very minor tweaking of the dimensions if designed with that objective in mind.
…..RVM45
I love mine and still carry it from time to time!
My best friend owned one in the early 80's. I had a National Match. Qualified expert at PI with the Colt, then, "qualified" expert with the Detonics by asking the Range Master to overlook the pistol. An excellent piece of engineering. Semper fi.
Just browsing led me to this. About 20ish years ago I shot one owned by a local indoor range owner. Since then I wanted one and about 7 years ago came across a MK VI in box w/papers. Has Pachmayrs instead of original wood but for $450 I thought it was a steal. Nothing like stumbling on something like that that you've really wanted for so long.
mrweeby1961 Great story. I have what I believe is a blued finish MK1, which I purchased in 1996 for $500.00. I’ve been picking up factory magazines every so often thru out the years if I found one for a good price, usually they’ve been $40.00 -$65.00, but it’s been 10 years or so since I got the last one & it seems like they’re not around much anymore, at least not for that price. Good Day to You!
4 years ago, I was at a Turners in the city of Reseda CA, and saw what I though was a Detonics, what it was was a Colt 1991a1 officer's model, for $600.00 best purchased I ever made, it's a beautiful gun and shoots very nice.
I had that one, nice little shooter! I thought with the short barrel it would be all over the target but it hit what you aimed at. Oh and it fit in my jeans back pocket :)
Thanks, I had no idea Detonics were this innovative! It's indeed remarkable when you see something commonplace, "modern" and "current" today implemented for the first time, just as a solution to a problem.
i have 2! and a couple of Des Moines Iowa police officers carry one. i also have my dad's old service master! cool seeing one of the early models of a gun i have on auction
My last firearms purchase was several years back. I had plans to go nomadic in our Class A Motor Home, and wanted a smaller .45 to carry in the rig, and concealed since I have my CCL. My brother-in-law and I were going to a local gun show, and on the way in, I told him the story of the Detonics .45, saying that I was looking for something along that line. I had been really OUT of the gun world for nearly 20 years, and had no idea what would be on the tables in the show, however after searching all the tables, mostly filled with beat up 9mm's and some newer crap .32's and 380's, I came upon just what I was looking for. A short barrel, cut down M1911A1 (my first love in handguns!) in like new condition, in a nice Don Hume holster with extra magazine! She was marked Citadel and as I say I had been out of the firearms world for quite some time, but she looked to be exactly what I was looking for. I looked up at the fellow behind the counter and saw the gentleman who had come to my home over 15 years before and purchased the last of my firearms collection, when I was on the verge of bankruptcy fighting Workers Comp. Well he knew he had got a great deal on my collection, so gave me a break on the price of the little gun, and I still carry her today. I have fired the hell out of her and never found a stoppage, so I have grown to trust her. Now all I ever fed her were some Mexican made 230 grain Hardball because that was what I purchased nearly 30 years ago when I left the gun business and gave up my FFL. The ammo is military grade and still shoots great. So while I never found my Detonics, I am happy with the little guy that I did come across, in a size I was looking for. She isn't nearly as light as my old STAR PD but then she is much better built as far as I can tell.
Thanks for the great videos, they take me back to the days when I had an FFL and Shotgun News was my catalog of choice.
I worked at Detonics for about a year.... if you ever find a Detonics .45 with the serial number +6768, that was my shop built employee gun... Loved that gun... it got stolen...
There are some righteous firearms in this December Auction. And this Detonics was one of a couple..
Fun fact
Its the handgun from stringsflow Hawk from the Serie airwolf
Don Johnson helped increase its popularity huh? Kind of like how Charles Bronson increased the popularity of the Wildey Magnum in Death Wish 3!!!
+REPO831 And Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry with the S&W M29.
I remember Johnson using it in Miami Vice but I always thought even being a subcompact that 45 was an awfully hefty thing to have strapped to your ankle. I'd think it would make him walk funny.
Small, but about 35oz loaded.
Don Johnson was also the only person to "kill" anyone with the I'll fated Bren Ten. 😂
Don Johnson also helped increase the popularity of Glaco's Jackass shoulder holster, as it was the holster Rick Gallagher (then president of Galco gunleather) personally fitted him with when Miami Vice started its run on tv. Each time Crockett got a new pistol, Galco modified the holster as needed. In honor of its popularity with fans of the show, Galco renamed it the Miami Classic and it is still made today.
The first compact 1911 to hit the commercial market was the Star P. D.,also made the first sub compact 9mm Star B M ,and B. K. M
Sonny Crockett carried one of these as a backup gun in an ankle holster on Miami Vice. For his primary weapon, he carried a Bren Ten in Seasons 1 & 2, a S&W 645 in Seasons 3 & 4, and a S&W 4506 in Season 5. I never got a Bren Ten but I was able to buy a S&W 645 which I still have :-)
The tab sticking out of the magazine is also cool because like some modern guns do with that as an intentional feature, you can tell at a glance if the mag is full or not, especially if the magazine is in a pouch or pocket so that you can't see the side, ie. The holes that let you see the rounds within
Star were doing it in the 1940's with some of their 1911 style pistols like the Model S 380, Ian did a video last year I think showing the exact same thing with the Star S. A neat solution and creative marketing by Detonics
At about 4:45 your explanation about that gap in the floorplate of the magazine answered a confounding dilemma of an acquaintance who had one of these guns back in the heyday. He lost the original magazine and hired a local gunsmith to make another by cutting down a standard GI surplus magazine and rewelding the floorplate to the body. Not being aware of the necessity for the gap the replacement magazine looked ok and fit flush but was a disappointing 5 cartridge capacity.
There was a custom build for T2 using a Combat Master slide on a full-sized Detonics or Colt frame with a 5 or 6" compensated barrel.
Incidentally, the mix-master Detonics/Series 70 the Terminator used also got me turned on to 1911s in a big way.
Brilliant demonstration .
Always great to hear the background story of a company. Thanks Ian! :)
The sound of that hammer cocking back, melts the heart.
Nice one Ian! I recall reading a series of post-apocalyptic novels in the 1980s where the hero carried a couple of Detonics in twin shoulder holsters (as well as a LOT of other guns). Cannot for the life of me remember what the books were called though....
The Survivalist series by Jerry Ahearn...
@@jefflockaby702 Thanks!
Cool -- I never put much thought into the technical challenge of making a smaller pistol. I always just assumed it was the same, only shorter.
A beautiful 1911.Wish they were still in business.
Back in the early 80's I desperately tried to find a Detonics .45. My carry weapon was a full size Colt Mark IV, Series 70, and I wanted smaller pistol that packed the same punch. I was never able to find one. One gun store owner told me "If i could find one, I'd keep it for myself." Today, I have a Kimber stainless Ultra Carry II, and I am very pleased with it. The Detonics is still a fine weapon, but now they are collector's items that command well over $1000 up to several thousand. The Kimber also holds 7 rounds in the mag instead of 6. I also think that the grip safety is a good feature to have.
FWIW the Kimber is actually larger then the Detonics.
Inspired by the Detonics pistol in the 70s three of us were able to build 3 pistols like the Detonics. We used Aluminum ranger frames as they could easily be cut down. We used surplus parts. We cut one of the locking lugs from the barrel. We used the bushing in a cut down slide. We used cut down springs. We also did away with the grip safety. I used a home made guide rod on my spring. We packetized the completed pistols. They work. The finished appearance is not bad either. We bought Detonics magazines for carry.
The first time I heard of a detonics .45 was in the "survivalist"novels by jerry ahern in the early 80s.
Jerry Ahern's character John Thomas Rourke carried 2 of them in an Alessi shoulder holster. Hard to find books today, but if you like equipment details. The books read like a user manual for most of the books.
I have an AMT Skipper, an ‘Officer-ish’ size 1911 chambered for .40 s&w that looks somewhat similar to this, it works well though, I enjoy it!
First video of yours I’ve seen of a gun I’ve actually owned. Great gun.
First I heard of Detonics was from Jerry Ahern's 'Survivalist' novel series. Always sounded so cool.
I remember reading about a Detonics Officers .451 Magnum 1911 years ago. The case was stretched out so you couldn't load the .451 Magnum ammo into a standard .45 ACP Magazine. For whatever reason I've always wanted one but so far never had the opportunity to purchase one. It was a pretty powerful round for it's day.
Ehh, .450SMC would also do the job, and it's no harder on the weapon than .45+P. I'd rather shoot the .450SMC in a carbine, though. most of the extra power is really wasted in a pistol-length barrel.
The Detonics (not certain which specific model) was also featured in Robert E. Bailey's Art Hardin series (see Amazon or B&N, e.g.): Private Heat, Dead Bang, Dying Embers.
Ian, you need to locate a Star PD .45 Auto next. It was something of a "competitor" to the Detonics. Sort of. Lots of cops I knew kept a Star PD as a backup gun because it was so much lighter than the steel framed Detonics.
I miss Star
Great video. Very cool interesting piece. Love The 1911 .45ACP an this is a really awsome example of an earlier subcompact 1911.
Good looking little pistol! Thanks for sharing it with us Ian :)
The STAR PD in 45 ACP came out the year before the Detonics company was formed! I presume you mean "the first of the compact 45's" manufactured in America?
You have such an awesome job
I can now proudly say I own an early(welded frame) MK1. Some may think it sacrilegious but it was modified by a previous owner, it now has both a beavertail and a bobtail. Neat handy little sucker, working on reliability though, I'd like to carry it but it's not quite there yet.
All of my reliability issues, after getting things like extractor tension sorted, have been related to springs; if the mag springs or recoil springs are getting tired, it will start to malf, and I mean, in the span of two or three mags, it will go from running perfectly to not running at all.
@@kimisdaman This is with a Detonics Combat Master? My reliabilty issues were caused by an aftermarket slide release that wasn't quiet fit right. I need to put more rounds through it to be sure, but it's doing better. I can of course certainly see how it'd be spring sensitive, but less so compared to an officer pattern 1911.
@@snek9353 Yeah, I've put about 5000 rounds through mine (20 years), and new springs every 500 rounds keeps it running right. There's a guy on g-broker selling triple recoil spring sets like the originals.
@@kimisdaman Bill in Bellevue?
I'd like to try some other timing tricks as well. In particular going to a squared off firing pin retainer. This should slow the slide dramatically allowing for less recoil spring.
When I was looking for the guy you mentioned for springs I saw some of the prices for other Combat Masters. 8 months ago I paid $1000 for this sucker. I thought I paid too much but there was no wiggle room and it was the right piece. Now I'm thinking I got a good deal. Having been modified it doesn't have collector value I guess. But it's certainly much more user friendly and whoever did the work did a very good job.
@@snek9353 There's a guy on g-broker who's trying to drive the Combat Master market, pricing his dozen CMs at three or four times what they generally sell for; a refinished, mill-run gun for $2500? I've had a small-radius FPS in my gun for 15+ years, and recommend them for all "1911s". The Harrison Design part is already radiused, if you don't want to mess with that aspect of fitting.
The locking system can be either cut so it travels less to unlock (plus a new spring weight and buffer ) or it can be viewed the propper way. Like a gear in an engine the rotation can be increased or decreased through simple reduction system. If anybody ever asks me why i havent dont anything i talk about. Money . i just dont have the money to get tooling and a building for the tooling to make a prototype...Let alone the multiples i have in mind and then R and D after.
Man I used to wish I had one of those! I recall reading about them in Guns and Ammo back in the day. I never could afford such a sweet firearm, but I tried, I picked up a Star PD model, she was a bit larger, but cut down compared to the M1911A1, also had a BM and BKM Stars in 9mm at one time. The last M1911A1 that I bought was the compact Citadel in .45ACP, she is a sweet little gun but weighs a ton compared to the old Star PD, but that weight is nice when it comes to taming the recoil of the gun. With the right rig you can carry the little fellow well concealed in the cooler months, a bit harder in the hot summer, but I did find a rather nice but warm wrap around sort of back brace type holster that will fit nicely under a T-Shirt and holds not only the .45 but two extra magazines as well. Where there is a will there is indeed a way.
I remember reading an old G&A Article that a couple Mercs in the African Bush Wars carried Detonics 1911s.
The Detonics compacts are very intriguing pistols. I have seen several over the years for sale at gun shows- at a premium. The only thing I feel looks "wonky" on them is the rear sight placed so far forward on the slide. You should do a video on the Randall 1911.
Beautiful piece, thanks for the fascinating history!
I have one of these. My father's. He's kept it pristine. Great .45. Sights are just okay. They get the job done.
Had one, thing would jam on the third round. It would stovepipe on everytime on that third round and for that reason I got rid of it. Very accurate for such a small barrel
Detonics is coming out some new pistols fairly soon.
My edc is a BBR 3.10, basically a 10+1 double stack version of this. And yes, it’s a .45ACP
One of my favorites..
I'm a huge fan of the detonics fulllsize 1911's, which are sadly even more forgotten.
I carried a star pd back in the 80's. Couldn't afford the detonics. Cool gun
$800 hammer price is almost criminal! That pistol is in like new shape and ready to serve someone for years to come. I think I have to find a cry room now.
Id love one of these soooooo much
When a daddy 1911 and a mommy 1911 love each other very much, they have a special hug and a Detonics Mk1 is born...