I have to be honest here I personally have never been interested in Philosophy. However, I am a college student and currently doing a Humanities course. Philosophy has always been something that was just way over my head, and something that I didn't care to learn about. The way you explain this, and present makes it so much easier to understand and actually has me interested. I just wanted to thank you for that.
Thank you for the video. I'm new to Plato and Philosophical literature in general. After reading symposium, I was going through my head on what exactly Diotima was saying. I believed I had a general idea on what she meant on the love of the body and perhaps the ideal of immortality that came from biological function. Also the natural process of looking for more than just the physical and the interest in someones soul, or their charicter. Then, perhaps in finding who you really are or in the search of an ideal you're able to expand your horizons and through gaining knowledge and experience, you open your mind to new avenues and ways of thinking that were never considered before. Through that process you're able to find the true personification of beauty because you'll realize that it's all around you.
Gregory B. Sadler yeah, that is definitely true. I'll most likely be frequenting this channel to help expand my view of these works since the reasoning of Socraties can throw me through a loop sometimes.
I'm only 16 years old and Plato's works have already taught me many things, I'm glad to find a channel to teach me more. I'm working on gathering essential Greek philosophy texts, any recommendations?
Dear Dr. Sadler: Today I finished the 3 part class (Marists Students). Sure I wanted more about that 3rd one, so much anticipated as I was progressing through them. So knowing that there was more to it, kept looking & found these shorter videos. Glad I did and thanks. There's one thing that keeps my mind comparing the concept of "Beauty itself" with what Antoine de Exúpery wrote in "Le Petite Prince". Do you think there is a correlation? In the whole story? (I'm just speculating that you've read it.) Chapter 21, where the Fox reveals a secret to the Prince: "And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Sometimes I'm astonished on how pieces of literature, lyrics, poems... when it's about Love, they all go back to these underlying concepts of the Symposium. What do you think? Anyway, thank you very much for your work, if it wasn't for your initiative, I wouldn't understand philosophy. You simplified, leaving enough hunger inside to keep looking, reading and learning. Great Legacy!
Is there an estimated time to spend contemplating each step of the process? And/or should there be a clue as to when we know we are ready to move from one step to the next in the ladder? Thanks, Gregory for the video. It really clarifies Diotima's revelation.
@@GregoryBSadler Thanks. Maybe it's just a feeling of when to move on to the next step and maybe even interchanging elements from the previous step in the following one until you reach the final one?
I'm beginning to understand now, thanks for sharing. "is love love for something or love for nothing?" -for something "so love is desire". how is love = desire? i dont understand the logic... help?
Yes Dr. Gregory, Ive been reading it and re reading it in my language and my understanding is that he who loves desires, love isnt equal to desire, desire is part of loving... is this accurate? Thank you very much for replying
In the first step of the ladder, the book says that once you love one body, you start "giving birth to good words/logia". Is it an agreement to Agathon's words that Eros can turn someone into a poet, or does it imply something completely different? Could you please help me understand the meaning of that?
I also thought that since the person starts seeing the good, it also begins to acquire the basic characteristics of a philosopher (the one who can see the ultimate good). So since a philosopher's words are always close to the good/agatho, then the person who goes through the first step of the ladder, gets the desire to talk similarly to a philosopher. I'm probably thinking too hard into it. Thank you for the answer
Hi, Thank you. I am reading The Symposium right now. I didn't grasp the ascent.. how did I miss that. Also, is "The beautiful" Eternity?" What I am understanding is the allure of beauty brings people to love which connects people to "generation" or creation ( of children or through invention, as in the arts, poetry and music) as a way to connect to immortality, because mortals leave these things behind, so they live on through their creations... what do you think.. ?
Also, is "The beautiful" Eternity?" - so that's a good question to ask. The straightforward answer is that, for Plato, the answer would be no - the Form of Beauty Itself/The Form of the Good is in eternity, to be sure, but so are the many other forms that in some way or another derive from/are produced by it. And human souls can participate in that eternity as well. But, the view that we can piece together from Plato's dialogues isn't the end of the Platonic tradition. Once that gets absorbed into Christian thought - at least for certain Christian philosophers and theologians, the answer becomes yes.
So for her a soul is a personality? That’s built with the laws a beliefs that we are shaped with that is also built with the knowledge that was given to us or that we discover?
Thank God! Someone who finally actually understands Platonic love and explains it correctly. It drives me crazy how misused “Platonic” is. TH-cam is full of bullshit millennials that mistakenly think that it means “no sex”. Thank god. It is about an “intellectual, emotional, spiritual AND the physical” connections. I wish I could upvote this 1,000x.
Gregory B. Sadler hahaha. Ok, well for sure boomers are not exempt from mangling Plato, but the advent of dating websites over the last decade has continued to perpetuate the myth that Platonic love means “no sex” and boomers are not the primary users of those sites.
@@GregoryBSadler It's tough man. There are some people who are good inside (i.e. they help the poor, are generous with giving their energy, time and resources to people in need). But are thoroughly unlikeable people. Mean, crude, thoughtless, ununderstanding, jealous, petty, simple minded, anti social, etc. It's like you feel you should be able to love their souls but you can't, no matter how much you force yourself. You just get nauseous in the attempt. What do you think about that? Macro philosophical concepts are interesting but it's their micro applicability that is their ultimate litmus test in my opinion.
@@GregoryBSadler The interesting thing is, how you define a beautiful soul. Objectively or subjectively. Human souls are rarely (if at all) black and white, binary, beautiful or ugly. They are dynamic, over time they fluctuate in the eyes of an observer. How do the beautiful and ugly parts of a soul being observed relate to the beautiful and ugly parts of the soul of the observer? At what moments does one characteristic outweigh the other? With which patterns does it do so? Compatibility between souls is a determining prerequisite in determining how much "beauty" is appreciated between them I think. PS: Thank you for your insights, I really appreciate it.
Not sure what you're asking for here. You think her examples don't work for modern people? That they no longer engage in sexual reproduction, for instance?
Indeed, according to the greeks, Pragma, or unconditional "godly" love is the form of love god experiences for everyone and everything. To be able to love everyone and everything regardless of circumstance is a godly trait or characteristic
I have to be honest here I personally have never been interested in Philosophy. However, I am a college student and currently doing a Humanities course. Philosophy has always been something that was just way over my head, and something that I didn't care to learn about. The way you explain this, and present makes it so much easier to understand and actually has me interested. I just wanted to thank you for that.
Glad the video was useful for you - you're welcome!
This is easily one of the best channels for philosophy on TH-cam. Excellent treatment of the Symposium.
Thanks!
Dr. Sadler, just dropped by to tell you I re-visit Plato's texts right after having read them via your video content. Thanks for doing these.
You’re very welcome
What a wonderful picture that's been painted here. Thanks for the upload
+DudeRevolution You're welcome
it sounds like a profound and real friendship that we can aspire
I think this video participates in the form of beauty! Great explanation
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you for this very useful analysis of one of the most useful philosophical texts, Dr. Sadler!
You're very welcome!
This is illuminating. Great work, Mr. Sadler. You are a good man.
Thanks!
You are incredible, Sadler.... keep it up...
Will do
Thanks you for the explanation for The Diotima-Socrates discourse in plato's Symposium
+Iam2OBSCENE You're welcome!
These readings make me wanna spoon my eyes out
Nobody likes complainers
you explained this so much better I understood it right away the way you explained. thank you! I was having trouble understanding
Glad it was helpful for you!
Thank you for the video. I'm new to Plato and Philosophical literature in general. After reading symposium, I was going through my head on what exactly Diotima was saying. I believed I had a general idea on what she meant on the love of the body and perhaps the ideal of immortality that came from biological function. Also the natural process of looking for more than just the physical and the interest in someones soul, or their charicter. Then, perhaps in finding who you really are or in the search of an ideal you're able to expand your horizons and through gaining knowledge and experience, you open your mind to new avenues and ways of thinking that were never considered before. Through that process you're able to find the true personification of beauty because you'll realize that it's all around you.
Well, you'll find with Plato that as you reread and mull over the text, more and more suggests itself to you
Gregory B. Sadler yeah, that is definitely true. I'll most likely be frequenting this channel to help expand my view of these works since the reasoning of Socraties can throw me through a loop sometimes.
@@emmabunch-benson7922 It's not that controversial, Nietszche had his criticisms as well which zi found provocative and interesting.
I'm only 16 years old and Plato's works have already taught me many things, I'm glad to find a channel to teach me more. I'm working on gathering essential Greek philosophy texts, any recommendations?
Start frequenting used book stores and picking up the usually readily available works by Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, Cicero. . . .
I use libby a lot. All you need is a phone and a library card.
Thanks, I'm listening from Sudan ❤️❤️
You’re welcome!
Thanks for the great content Prof Sadler, you should consider doing a podcast.
You mean like this? - soundcloud.com/gregorybsadler
th-cam.com/video/qRvL0gqlyrw/w-d-xo.html
Fantastic! Very illuminating and well explained. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow! That was really incredible !
Glad you enjoyed the discussion and ideas
Dear Dr. Sadler:
Today I finished the 3 part class (Marists Students). Sure I wanted more about that 3rd one, so much anticipated as I was progressing through them. So knowing that there was more to it, kept looking & found these shorter videos. Glad I did and thanks.
There's one thing that keeps my mind comparing the concept of "Beauty itself" with what Antoine de Exúpery wrote in "Le Petite Prince". Do you think there is a correlation? In the whole story? (I'm just speculating that you've read it.) Chapter 21, where the Fox reveals a secret to the Prince: "And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Sometimes I'm astonished on how pieces of literature, lyrics, poems... when it's about Love, they all go back to these underlying concepts of the Symposium. What do you think?
Anyway, thank you very much for your work, if it wasn't for your initiative, I wouldn't understand philosophy. You simplified, leaving enough hunger inside to keep looking, reading and learning. Great Legacy!
I haven't read The Little Prince for over a decade, so I can't say. Glad that the videos have been helpful for you!
Great explanation, thank you
thank you, it was really interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it
Is there an estimated time to spend contemplating each step of the process? And/or should there be a clue as to when we know we are ready to move from one step to the next in the ladder? Thanks, Gregory for the video. It really clarifies Diotima's revelation.
There is no estimated time
@@GregoryBSadler Thanks. Maybe it's just a feeling of when to move on to the next step and maybe even interchanging elements from the previous step in the following one until you reach the final one?
very interesting video, thank you for sharing
Suscribed!
whats Socrates' understanding of the Good What is it? What is its function? How can one participate in it?
th-cam.com/video/OV_T8Emyf6I/w-d-xo.html
Helped me on my exam, thank you!
Glad to read it - you're welcome!
Very fascinating thank you is there a book you would recommend to study this concept?
The book the video is about, for one
Thank you so much
You're very welcome!
What brand shirt is that? Those are quality stitching on those buttons.
Abstract love?
No idea
I'm beginning to understand now, thanks for sharing. "is love love for something or love for nothing?" -for something "so love is desire". how is love = desire? i dont understand the logic... help?
Have you read the text?
Yes Dr. Gregory, Ive been reading it and re reading it in my language and my understanding is that he who loves desires, love isnt equal to desire, desire is part of loving... is this accurate? Thank you very much for replying
In the first step of the ladder, the book says that once you love one body, you start "giving birth to good words/logia". Is it an agreement to Agathon's words that Eros can turn someone into a poet, or does it imply something completely different? Could you please help me understand the meaning of that?
It's neither. You see a beautiful body, become infatuated, and that inspires you to say what you think are good things. Seems pretty straightforward
I also thought that since the person starts seeing the good, it also begins to acquire the basic characteristics of a philosopher (the one who can see the ultimate good). So since a philosopher's words are always close to the good/agatho, then the person who goes through the first step of the ladder, gets the desire to talk similarly to a philosopher. I'm probably thinking too hard into it.
Thank you for the answer
@@alternatives3379 I wouldn't say that a philosopher's words are always close to the good.
Hi, Thank you. I am reading The Symposium right now. I didn't grasp the ascent.. how did I miss that. Also, is "The beautiful" Eternity?" What I am understanding is the allure of beauty brings people to love which connects people to "generation" or creation ( of children or through invention, as in the arts, poetry and music) as a way to connect to immortality, because mortals leave these things behind, so they live on through their creations... what do you think.. ?
Also, is "The beautiful" Eternity?" - so that's a good question to ask. The straightforward answer is that, for Plato, the answer would be no - the Form of Beauty Itself/The Form of the Good is in eternity, to be sure, but so are the many other forms that in some way or another derive from/are produced by it. And human souls can participate in that eternity as well.
But, the view that we can piece together from Plato's dialogues isn't the end of the Platonic tradition. Once that gets absorbed into Christian thought - at least for certain Christian philosophers and theologians, the answer becomes yes.
So for her a soul is a personality?
That’s built with the laws a beliefs that we are shaped with that is also built with the knowledge that was given to us or that we discover?
And the knowledge of the beauty can be seen as your essence?
@@karlaponcedeleoncastillo2673 Not sure what you're asking
Which greek word love Plato & Socrates was using & common?
Rewrite your question so it makes sense
@@venus_the_star Who asked you?
'... Not like you're gonna have sex with the Law...' oh my goodness I died with laughter with that XD
Thank God! Someone who finally actually understands Platonic love and explains it correctly. It drives me crazy how misused “Platonic” is. TH-cam is full of bullshit millennials that mistakenly think that it means “no sex”. Thank god. It is about an “intellectual, emotional, spiritual AND the physical” connections. I wish I could upvote this 1,000x.
Bullshit boomers have been mangling Plato for decades, long before TH-cam existed. It's not a millennial thing.
Gregory B. Sadler hahaha. Ok, well for sure boomers are not exempt from mangling Plato, but the advent of dating websites over the last decade has continued to perpetuate the myth that Platonic love means “no sex” and boomers are not the primary users of those sites.
Where would the love of ones own beautiful body and beautiful soul fall into?
Plato doesn't have Diotima discuss that
How do you appreciate the beauty of the soul of mean people?
You don't. Not all souls are beautiful
@@GregoryBSadler It's tough man. There are some people who are good inside (i.e. they help the poor, are generous with giving their energy, time and resources to people in need). But are thoroughly unlikeable people. Mean, crude, thoughtless, ununderstanding, jealous, petty, simple minded, anti social, etc. It's like you feel you should be able to love their souls but you can't, no matter how much you force yourself. You just get nauseous in the attempt. What do you think about that?
Macro philosophical concepts are interesting but it's their micro applicability that is their ultimate litmus test in my opinion.
@@gold333 I think people like that don't have beautiful souls. One can help the poor out of all sorts of motives.
@@GregoryBSadler The interesting thing is, how you define a beautiful soul. Objectively or subjectively. Human souls are rarely (if at all) black and white, binary, beautiful or ugly. They are dynamic, over time they fluctuate in the eyes of an observer. How do the beautiful and ugly parts of a soul being observed relate to the beautiful and ugly parts of the soul of the observer? At what moments does one characteristic outweigh the other? With which patterns does it do so?
Compatibility between souls is a determining prerequisite in determining how much "beauty" is appreciated between them I think.
PS: Thank you for your insights, I really appreciate it.
@@gold333 Read more Plato, and you'll get some answers to those questions. Or read some other thinkers who take on that question.
what would be a modern example of Diotima's belief that love is the desire to reproduce in the presence of beauty.
Not sure what you're asking for here. You think her examples don't work for modern people? That they no longer engage in sexual reproduction, for instance?
Thank you, would love be the closest feelings, level to god.
Indeed, according to the greeks, Pragma, or unconditional "godly" love is the form of love god experiences for everyone and everything. To be able to love everyone and everything regardless of circumstance is a godly trait or characteristic
No One:
Me: Hahahaha Jschlatt read this
It’s not Diodima though
No idea what point you're trying to make. And it's Diotima
Cool beans
Gr3at J0b
this is not love
You made a cool self-referential statement
@@GregoryBSadler i was wrong