ngl.. pretty surprised at all the VR coverage lately.. but I'm glad you guys are giving it some attention. Makes old VR gamers heart just a lil warmer inside, haha.
Well The quest 2 did sell in heaps, even breaking 20 million units sold. The quest 3 is offering more practical use cases for productivity with its AR capabilities, while being a beefier mobile VR machine. The market seems to be shifting to smart glasses being the hot new "wearable tech", after a few more years of refinement.
I’m really really happy you guys are doing more vr stuff. John is amazing for getting this going. Thank you. I met Michael at EGX Rezzed years ago. I was so excited to shake his hand and he looked at me like a mad man but I didn’t mind.
@@TheSkyHive 5 months later answer but not at all, i have one i bought on amazon a wifi 6, the cheapest one and it works hard it is making a bridge between my home router and my computer, ethernet cable in and out and then my quest and my computer are connecter on that "network" and it is my setup since some years actually it works super well (quest 2 or 3 , same)
I'm so chuffed that DF is covering VR more! I actually got into VR like 2 years ago, but my whole experience has really blossomed this year now I've met so many friends and have a decent discord community and we all get together and play Minigolf and many other VR games! I'd love to see John try out a game like Wooorld which is now free! Most people love to explore around the world and I must say the drone shots people take are incredible to look at, but I love the Geo Guesser style game mode! It's so much more better for me. I personally prefer being in the 360 images than doing it through a flat monitor screen.
3:26 you can actually run it up to 120hz if you have 120hz mode enabled on the quest. (Its going to purge your battery though). Id recommend definitely getting a compatible external battery, at least 10000mah and mounting it to the back.
I was VERY surprised about the quest 3, coming from a Lenovo explorer : The lenses, the overall screen quality, the controlers the AR daaaamn, that stuff is good.
you can play wireless steam VR games which the standalone quest headsets dont support . so youc an play steam VR without having the Valve Index VR @@retrowrath9374
@@retrowrath9374 I actually use AirLink most often, but I started playing around with Virtual Desktop and I found the experience was crisper and smoother. Wireless PCVR is awesome.
Fun fact Virtual Desktop was made and continues to be updated by only one developer. It's the legendary Guy Godin. When the first VR headsets were released there was no desktop feature withing them so the real OGs remember how we had to remove the headset, launch the game from the desktop on the screen and put the headset back to play. 7 or 8 years ago he created this feature that is now considered a basic one in VR. That is why it is called Virtual Desktop. He later added a ton of features like streaming VR games wirelessly. He actually made it possible even before Meta made their own. Extremely impressive!
PLEASE more VR coverage. The community has been steadily growing, 6+ million active monthly users. But no proper benchmarks for VR games. We kinda have to guess when building a new PC and go by what the general consensus is.
I’ve got the same experience. The quest 3 radio is incredible. If you enable the performance panel “Oculus Link Detail” in the debug tool, you can see just how steady the Quest 3 tx (green) line is. On quest 2 and Quest Pro this graph was very unsteady. Quest 3 is an incredible upgrade for wireless use-case.
It doesn't absolutely have to be 6e if anyone is wondering. The prices of 6e routers are stupid right now. You can get the same bitrate on a cheaper router. 6e I believe just improves multiple device support if you want to use the router for other things too. If you're getting a dedicated router only for Quest 3 then you certainly don't need a $300 or $400 6e Router. Those manufacturers need to relax with those prices.
Absolutely agree! Mind, I don't even have 6e, I have a tplink ax6000 and it absolutely superbly handles it (also using 4070 with AV1). 0 issues, 0 lag, latency at 30ms.
I have the Quest 3 with Virtual Desktop and a PC with a 4080. The router is a WIFI 6e ( which the Quest 3 supports ), so I can connect to it over the 6g band. AV1 encoding does indeed look better than the other options. Can run it up to 200 mbps. Just as this video says, wireless on the Quest headsets is extremely well done!
Another wireless VR tip: if you have a wifi 6 router, dedicate one of the 5Ghz bands exclusively to VR. Give it its own SSID like "VR-Only" or something. Interference can and will cause issues so if you are having issues, give that a shot.
I have been playing VR games for years. And by far my favorite way to play is fully wireless where I simply turn my own body for rotation / leaning / and ducking. I literally never touch the rotation sticks. It is by far the most immersive and natural way to play VR. It is also my biggest gripe with the PSVR2, which I like, but he cord is such a huge pain point for me.
Standalone and wireless is the peak VR experience. Being able to strap a headset on and transport yourself (or your friend) to a new place any time and anywhere you want with zero setting up is the dream.
It's still not totally plug and play. Standalone Wireless PCVR still has a lot of settings you'll fiddle with to dial it in because it can overtax either your PC, your headset, or your connection via Wifi.
@@bullit199Where does this fantasy about it being complicated come from? Wireless PCVR with the native airlink requires like three clicks. It's not too hard for 8 year olds (my niece) or elderly people (from my VR social group) using a 2070 laptop and a Windows hotspot. It only gets tricky if you're an enthusiast with excessive requirements at which point, sure, tinker with Virtual Desktop and optimise your wifi bands and tweak your PC settings. But that's not most users.
There was a bit of fiddling when I first set everything up, but to run? I turn on oculus, I turn on PC. I run virtual desktop, done. Everything just works.@@bullit199
Guys... It's optional but completely possible to enable 120 Hz on both Quest 2 and 3, and it's perfectly supported on VD. Quest Pro is limited to 90 Hz, but that's the display panels, PC streaming can do whatevernit wants with the bandwith your wireless setup can support ;)
I’m looking forward to John’s video comparing the different streaming solutions on Quest. He says here that he found Virtual Desktop to be better than Airlink (built-in), but in my personal experience Airlink comes out on top. Now these two pieces of software are both great at what they do, so its very neck-and-neck. Would LOVE to see an in-depth DF Tech review.
Do you have a 4xxx series nVidia GPU? If you do, and use AV1, it hands down slaughters airlink. If you're using 3xxx or below GPU, then it's a tougher call. AV1 works horrible on anything other than the 4xxx series so it's not even worth trying.
@@TheGigaflop I don't have a 4000 series card, but hearing it could do AV1 on the Quest 3 really made me consider it. I also heard that only VD has AV1 right now, so that's one notch for VD over Airlink!
I had a Quest 2 that I used with Virtual Desktop and my rental modem router box. Gotta say, even with the random stream hiccups and dropouts, just being away from that gahddamn wire was totally worth it. The freedom of moving around is how it's meant to be. Now I'm thinking of buying my own router strictly for VR purposes. My rental box is shared amongst my family, so the network stays pretty busy all day long, hogging precious VR resources, so I think that having a separate router for my PC seems like the only solution to have a consistent VR experience. My wifi situation is the only thing holding me back from replaying HL Alyx. I'd love to replay it. Catching leaping headcrabs with desk drawers is way more fun than it sounds lol
I think what's holding vr games back isn't really the mobile chipset, it's that devs chase the pretties rather than use that performance on stuff that matters. Think about the games from the late 90s and early 2000s.. Starsiege Tribes, huge maps, 64 player servers.. Think I ran that on a 200mhz pentium chip... Battlefield 1, huge maps, tons of players.. game from the early 2000s.. That could run just fine on a Quest 3.. Same with Battlefield 2, it could also run just fine on a Quest 3. Even a Quest 2. Operation Flashpoint, fullblown MASSIVE map military sim.. Ran just fine on a 500mhz athlon. All the flight sims from the 90s would run just fine on a Quest 3. The main problem is that devs don't go for gameplay anymore.. Games tend to be really shallow overall these days, just a slight tweak to the formula. If devs wanted to, we could have huge multiplayer games with tons of players. Devs just go for the prettiest screenshots rather than super deep gameplay. If we had more devs that thought like the BattleBit devs, we'd have FAR deeper and more complex games. Devs could make more maps super fast as well. Modders would be able to make maps.. it would be great. There's plenty of power in these headsets, it's just misused.
Im glad John enjoying vr. Its so true that vr can give new life to old games. Recently played the Jedi Ourcast 2 and RtCW port by TeamBeef and its freakin awesome.
Quest3 with virtual desktop using AV1 is AMAZING. I am completely blown away. Everyone that tries it is absolutely floored. It is transformative. The pancake lenses.... everything is just so good.
The reason latency feels good is because the viewport is rendered wider than the fov and rotated at the last millisecond on the headset You will notice wireless latency more on controllers
Get a random hard stutter like every 30-60 seconds in wireless link only. Noone has been able to help me with this fix. Someone had suggested that one of the latest firmware updates for Quest caused this. So until it is fixed I will be wired when it comes to PCVR
quest 2 can achieve 120hz, even with virtual desktop, it does causes more heat and you should play plugged in or with an external battery, I have found that 80 fps is just fine for most vr games
It's 120hz on the quest 2 with a 4090 and Wifi 6 router connected at 1200 mbps, Quest 2 connects at max 180 mbps You should see how Half Life Alyx looks, it looks amazing. Thinking hard about a Quest 3.
I had a quest 1, not a 2, but let me tell you, the lenses on the 3 are unreal. The difference is utterly massive. There is no "sweet spot" where you sit there trying to get the image to focus. You don't even need to dial in the ipd. It's clear no matter what you do.
I regard DF as the best gaming technology channel and watch practically every episode with great enjoyment. However, the teams general ignorance regarding VR is rather disappointing, considering VR is the most forward looking technology in gaming. Graphical fidelity is one thing, being virtually present in the game world is quite another. As the fidelity of presence in the games we love increases, graphics will become a supporting factor to enhance reality. In flat screen gaming, in many cases, graphical fidelity is is the governing factor in determining the sense of realism. For example, the team loves ray tracing, as do I. The goal of ray tracing is to generate a more realistic image. The goal of VR is not just to create an image that is more realistic, it’s to create a reality, in which the player can be virtually present. Sorry for the rant guys, but I think VR technology needs to be taken a little more seriously and given the respect it deserves. I look forward to hearing your opinions of VR when you inevitably start appreciating it a little more. Sorry again for the rant.
I’m hopeful they’ll discover their interest in VR. We’re seeing it happen before our eyes with clips like this. Big time agree with you about VR and the paradox of what DF does. There are some incredible discussions to be had here. Whats the situation with Asynchronous Space Warp? Is it really worth locking a game to half rate and letting ASW do the rest? Are there good examples of this? Bad examples? The clarity loss from TAA hits harder in VR than it does on flat panels. Should TAA be skipped for VR titles? What are examples of titles doing this well or poorly? For streaming, is it better to use H.264 for high bitrates vs H.265 or AV1 with lower bitrates? I know some folks will swear by 264 at 300+ mbps, and never use 265/AV1. How does streaming overhead impact game performance? John bumped into the topic of why it seems like streaming just works better in VR than traditional gaming. I’d love to hear him dig into this topic. Why is this? What are the optimized settings for the high end PC VR games? I’d love to hear Alex’s optimized settings for Lone Echo 1 and 2. And especially No Man’s Sky VR, which is particularly “heavy”. There’s so many topics here!
Using VD on a Pico 4 with a XE75 Pro mesh system, HL Alyx in any room on ultra. Only time I notice latency is in rhythm games, it just feels a little off on Ragnarock on 7+ difficulty. Driving Sims etc with a wheel. The immersion is unreal
I just played through the Half-Life 2 VR mod on steam and it felt like a next get experience. I don't think I can go back to flat screen gaming. It's amazing how well most titles conform to VR with just a little love.
Got myself a cheap used Quest 2 because of this clip. Sold my Rift S after playing through HL:A three times in a row when it came out and didn't want to get a new headset until Valve releases their new model. But 150 bucks for a used Quest 2 with GOOD wireless PC VR was a no-brainer.
I like that he said "streaming VR games over the internet would be impossible", enters Microsoft with Gamepass cloud launching on Quest 2 and 3 (yes i know its just flat titles currently) . If thats not a clear indication of the way things could go, I dont know what is.
Quest 2 also does 120hz in experimental mode, but no AV1. Wifi 6 vs Wifi 6E on the Quest 3 is another relevant difference. I use my Quest 2 at 120hz with wifi 6 and virtual desktop, and it's a great experience. I also consider the replacement strap and facial interface mandatory (I use the Meta silicon facial interface and the BoboVR M2 Pro+ with a couple of batteries). I didn't actually find the strap as awful as a lot of people, but I wish I'd swapped them earlier given how much more I started using the headset after I upgraded. I don't actually care all that much about standalone VR (that might change if they upgrade from mobile phone to laptop grade hardware), but external tracking with light boxes and a corded connection is a massive issue for ergonomics and usability. ...and I'd say ergonomics are still the biggest hurdle facing broader XR adoption.
That would require deals and partnerships to be made outside of Metas' current scope. Right now, the best thing console-wise is Xbox Cloud coming to Quest next month or virtual desktop for traditional gaming with a paired Bluetooth controller
@smittyvanjagermanjenson182 But how come virtual display glasses like the Xreal Air 2 allow plug and play for anything you want? I don't think they made any partnerships and yet they still allow it.
This is absolutely superb. By and large, this has gone from side quest to main quest with one robust feature: Wireless transmission! So what does this mean, then? True freedom when gaming in VR. The next logical step for this tech is to implement CRT's into the headset.
Wireless VR really is the way to go. I hope Valve's next "Index" and its electronics is just a rear strap-mounted battery and a small lightweight receiver module/board, and you plug a USB C dongle into your PC that wirelessly sends the video stream to the HMD. It would be a huge misstep if Valve tried to compete directly with Facebook/Meta by making an HMD with a mobile/desktop chip.
Why is it the way to go? Have you ever tried PCVR with display port? Is 1000x better that streaming ! With wireless or usb link you get a compressed image full of compression artifacts and high input lag !
@@HDRGamingHub Because in a properly set-up wireless PCVR rig you get the best of both worlds of a self-contained HMD and the processing power of a fully-fledged high-end gaming PC while being able to move around uhindered by any cables. I played the entirety of Half-Life: Alyx, frequented VRChat in its full non-restricted moddable form, and played Beat Saber completely wirelessly and competitively in PCVR via Virtual Desktop. The latency on my 5GHz AC WiFi router was negligable, and the stream compression just as undetectable after a few tweaks to the settings. Have you tried getting a dedicated router and connecting it to your PC via an ethernet cable? All the input lag you claim that is supposed to be there is just likely a bad set up, or sub-optimal settings, or both. And yes, I tried (and then sold) an ultra-wide FoV Pimax as although the pixel density and view was phenomenal, its weight and multiple cables were cumbersome. With all that said, what does any of this matter to you anyway? If Valve's next "Index" supports both wireless and wired connections (via DP for you, preferrably), then you can just opt to just not use its wireless feature. I get to not have to worry about twisting up a cable and enjoy turning left as many times as I want without untangling myself from a tether or stepping over the connection link, and you get to sit on a stationary chair while driving virtual cars. HMDs made for on-foot combat/exploration with hand controllers aren't made specifically for simming and vehicle sims alone. Demanding that they don't optimise it for on-foot combat/exploration while better bulky-but-sim-optimised wide FoV headsets already exist kind of really ignores people like John and myself who want better wireless PCVR features. We don't want whatever minor gains in visual fidelity you like. We want a lightweight wireless HMD such as a Bigscreen Beyond with a battery and WiFi receiver module that's been in talks among the Bigscreen devs and community.
Streaming in home when configured correctly is just awesome. I use moonlight and sunshine - and while I would never buy a PS Portal - I totally see why Sony is trying that out
For me personally, I had the best experience with a PCIe Wi-Fi 6e card for -$30 US, some high gain antennas ~$10, and then ad-hoc to my PC. It’s not a recommended config because there are Windows behaviors the VD dev can’t control. Once you learn how to mitigate those behaviors though, it’s better than going through router IMHO.
I only have a 3080 but I have a really good wifi 6e router and I do h.264+ at 500 bitrate and it looks amazing. Just so clear. Q3 def the best wireless PCVR headset by a large margin.
200mbit av1 looks better than 200mbut h264+. But 500mbit h264+ looks way (like really way better) than 200mbit av1. Basically the 4090 users only benefit from av1 if they have a low internet connection. I have a 4090, 7800x3d and a wifi6e router. Airlink allows to go even higher in bitrate with the h264 codec but is not as smooth as virtual desktop in my opinion.
@@DaveSimkus200 is fine and an achievable bit rate for the non-savvy consumer. Whenever I tried to push past it I experienced issues, but my PC isn't the latest and greatest. So far not many games I play are suffering to a degree that it's "unplayable/unpleasant".
@@EnnuinerDogthat game has me fairly excited for what's in store when the quest 2 is officially retired. Right now we're only at Peak Quest 2, with a few prettied up titles on quest 3
"standalone is pretty good now, it can handle this Quake-like FPS Amid Evil" 😂 while completely missing the likes of AC Nexus, Dungeons of Eternity, Pop1, Red Matter 2 etc
I would love to see some videos on Quest 3 vs PSVR2 and PCVR graphics comparisons. With the Quest 3 being around twice as powerful as the Quest 2, I'm really interested to see how it stacks up against higher end experiences now. Also would be cool to see a review of the BigScreen Beyond. It is the first headset with a MicroOLED display, which is the same display technology the Apple Vision Pro will have.
Been using the Vive Wireless WIG Adapter pretty much since day one. Been thinking of upgrading my setup using the Quest 3 since I can use it standalone for the small fun games I like and still have the PC option. Wireless disclaimer for some people: once I went wireless, higher fidelity games started making me sick. I get major vertigo when I never used to. Even Beat Saber makes me sick standing on the platform. Wired i’m okay. Like the cable grounds me to reality and i’m not affected as much. Just a thought for people who haven’t been experiencing PCVR wirelessly and may start.
Sounds like you're latency sensitive. Higher fidelity increases latency. That feeling of vertigo is you moving in a game, and since it's not one to one with your movements, it slightly has to catch back up (which is a very unnatural experience for our brains). I've observed this playing boneworks and then switching to population one. BW was at 60ms, while population one held around 35ms. I can play either, but my brain does need to adjust for wireless connection, as I certainly feel it.
@@smittyvanjagermanjenson182 thats a good point. I don’t think it’s latency though. Ive viewed the performance metrics and its not far off. HTCs WIG based wireless receiver also introduced almost no latency. I only had problems on high ledges or flying games. Anything in a cockpit is was good. Planes. Tanks. Cars. All good. But standing up and staring down a ledge or walking a beam like in Vader Immortal or Half Life Alex I’d almost throw up and have to close my eyes and sit down until the scene was over. Wired i’d be good. And i’m 99% sure feeling the cable down my back on my legs and whatnot grounded me to reality more preventing my sickness. One thing that helped later too was leaving the chaperone floor boundaries on at all times. Make it light but also on. Even playing Spider-Man as long as the boundary reference was on i felt okay.
I'm ongoing make "DJI Avata VR experience" (FPV DJI drone simulator.. LMAO!!) based on Unreal Engine 5.3. I was design it for stand-alone (wireless mobile VR ~ Android OpenGL ES3.x), but the limitation of stand-alone VR GPU truly killed the immersive. So now I'm going to porting it back to a fully PCVR version (DirectX 12 SM6). And the immersive is truly awesome!! It's feel more realistic in all the way compare the mobile version. Thanks to EPIC for already made Nanite and Lumen works better in PCVR Mode now. I'm still testing in with my old Oculus Rift S (wired and weird VR HMD), but I hope I will have budget to acquire Meta Quest 3 (I already sold my Oculus Quest 2 few months ago) to test my game with wireless PCVR streaming. So wishes me luck! ;)
Quest 3 can easily do 500mbit H264 with 3090 (no AV1), using quest link virtual desktop doesn't go quite as high, latency between 39-50ms. Between Virtual Desktop and Oculus Link, I find Oculus link better visually, and prefer the interface. Very playable at 500mbit on a dedicated wifi5 AP - you can't even see the compression. People with wifi6e can get up to 800mbit, using the oculus debug tool, absolute fidelity at a minor sacrifice to latency. You should definately play more when you get the higher power of the quest 3, PC VR wireless is a much different experience with the last gen headsets. Very interested to follow your journey on VR. Quest 3 you will also be impressed with the new chip, its def not parity for PC, but its leaps and bounds over a native quest 2 experience. Just got to give the devs more time to release Quest 3 upgraded experiences, as they are very low at launch.
I think they're just pushing the wireless aspect more, it doesn't make sense at all that wireless would be better than a direct USB 3 connection with vastly more bandwidth, which is 2.9GB/s. I have Link cable and ceiling suspension system and there is not cable twisting issues, they did improve link with Quest 3, it's a lot more reliable and doesn't disconnect or have to reboot the headset when you pug in the link in sometimes. You can do 120hz if you enable it in the oculus settings and then Steam, oculus software has the 120hz option which you can use, Quest 2 did the same.
they should make the quest3 without the internal battery and have it external to make the headset even lighter maybe then the headstrap wouldn't be so bad. you cannot make hardware like this both powerful and up to date with internal power supplies.. that's not going to happen unless they find a magical new battery solution. much rather have a bigger battery attached to my waist as long as it doesn't wiggle around. they could probably make it as small as the big screen beyond if they made all the hardware except for the goggles external. hopefully valve does this with their next headset because having something on your face isn't pleasant so the lighter the better.
It's sad that most people try quest native games and think that's the only thing that VR has to offer right now. VR will take over when everybody can experience a 4090/WiFi6e setup in a compact/comfy headset at an affordable price.
I don’t know,I just bought the Quest 3 and it’s my first VR device but I’m not impressed .specially with games (only played demos) .I think the AR stuff are a bit more interesting.I was expecting much higher quality movie playback as well.but movies on Quest 3 are basically DVD quality.the interface and OS are also very confusing and the opposite of user friendly. I’m considering returning it. haven’t even tried PC VR despite having a 4090. I feel exactly the same way about VR as I did about Wii motion games and Kinect 🤷🏻
How is cheaper and more accesible "better"? How is high image compression and subpar performance from all the latency in wireless VR headsets "better" than a wired VR headset that is light years ahead? No wonder most of the VR industry is filled with mid products it's because of these joke standards many VR casual consumers have.
@@CheckmateStallioNQuest is the jack of all trades. Not being tied to a wall has been great. Also found that quest 3 works outdoors on a nice day and graphics are roughly xbox 360 quality. Just a more versatile system than a "games only" device.
This is feels weird. I’ve been playing this way daily for 3 years. Some have done it for longer, and seeing this feels weird cuz what is old news to me is news to DF!
VirtualDesktop is great, but AirLink is actually also really good if you adjust the setting. You see at default it is set to low bitrate, low resolution and 72 Hz. If you have wifi 6 and a good computer set the bitrate to 200 resolution to 2046, 90hz and ignore tha red warning text and you're golden... Thats to say if your on Quest2. Whats your take one the wifi stability bug on Quest3? (Vid on my channel for more)
I definitely am loving my quest three VR headset, and I like the standalone feature very much as well! But why they sell this unit with the worst most uncomfortable head strap is beyond me. Someone’s first impression and playing. It is how uncomfortable it is. I bought the elite strap and it is no better. It is total crap with no cushioning. Found a $30 third-party that is better than the overpriced elite strap. I’m so puzzled by that, because without Comfort, you’re not gonna play. Aside from that I’m loving it. Use a Puppis s1 and it works extremely well! I had trouble with the air link.
it's always been unplayable for me over a 300mb wired connection, extremely compressed image quality and constantly stuttering with the image breaking up causing motion sickness.
Interesting to see wireless getting ahead in terms of latency. I don't own any vr headset yet but 1 thing I would like to ask, what if you create a hotspot on pc or a laptop and connect quest 3 directly to it, is there going to be any difference in experience?
I think some people do that, they have 2 wifi radios, one for internet and one for dedicated link between headset and computer. If you aren't wired to your router, that might be a good way to go, but to do wireless hotspot you'll need 2 wifi radios in your PC. If you're wired to router, I think you'll get similar performance.
I have a 3K 120hz tablet and have been streaming 4k120 HDR games to it through Sunshine/Moonlight and I'm blown away at how well it works. It's definitely not perfect and I still prefer wired, but the technology is getting really good. Thinking about trading in my Index and getting a Quest 3 because wired VR has its downsides and I'd have a lot more space to move in other places other than my office. I barely use the Index in it's current location.
Coming from an enthusiasts VR point of view. I currently have the Index & playing on a 4090. Had the quest 3 for a month & sent it back. My goal was to play wireless PCVR games with better visual clarity. Which for the most part the Q3 delivers. HOWEVER. Unless you have the newest wifi6e router it sucks. Both Airlink & Virtual desktop, while much clearer than the index (especially when on the desktop & reading text) the artifacts, latency & lag just wasn't working for me. I'm plugged into my ethernet port running a wifi 5g router with various encoder options & it just isn't enough bandwidth to provide a better experience. If you have to resort in spending another $200-$300 on a newest router, than I'd rather wait for a better headset with no compromises.
Even if you get wifi6e will be the same dude. It doesn`t change anything 😅 I had the Quest Pro , Quest 3 , Pico 4 and all of them look horrible ! I ended up getting a Pico Neo 3 Link wich has Display Port and looks 10x better than any of these streaming headsets. People who say that streaming wireless looks good they never had a true PCVR headset with display port connection !
John is a typical dinosaur, he hates and judges a lot of stuff before he tries them but once he gives them a go he “sometimes” changes his mind. Lesson to be learned is technology waits for no one.
@KyloRenNStimpy yes but the things he talks about in this video were available for YEARS before he discovered it. I suppose we're all dinosaurs about certain things, it's hard to keep up
@@Wobbothe3rdwell if you got a bad impression from the quest 2s mobile graphics and a bad impression from game streaming, it honestly wouldn't give you a reason to delve deeper, let alone attempt combining the aforementioned and expecting a positive result. The past few DF clips regarding VR have been outstandingly positive and that's really what we need coming from a channel this size.
Quest 3 yes, quest 2 was trash in that department unless one enjoyed subpar picture quality hearkening to the CV1 era, and i'm glad many are finally seeing past the rose tinted glasses.
how can a wireless stream be BETTER than a wired solution?? Are you really sure you were not just enjoying the game so much that it "felt" better? Just can´t be.
what really pisses me off and its not quest fault, but ive been using the same glasses for a decade so needless to say my "2 year" "prescription" has expired. so the only way i can buy the lens insert is with a prescription. I cant tell you how much it angers me i have to have a Prescription to buy a piece of glass. smh so i wont be buying the inserts unfortunately.
Both the "new information" and "technology improved" comments are bad takes. The technology was already this good when John was going on his uninformed rants against in home streaming. The _only_ thing that changed is that he's actively taken steps to rectify his lack of knowledge. This is a good thing, but it doesn't excuse his awful takes on this technology that came before.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
ngl.. pretty surprised at all the VR coverage lately.. but I'm glad you guys are giving it some attention. Makes old VR gamers heart just a lil warmer inside, haha.
Well The quest 2 did sell in heaps, even breaking 20 million units sold. The quest 3 is offering more practical use cases for productivity with its AR capabilities, while being a beefier mobile VR machine. The market seems to be shifting to smart glasses being the hot new "wearable tech", after a few more years of refinement.
I’m really really happy you guys are doing more vr stuff. John is amazing for getting this going. Thank you. I met Michael at EGX Rezzed years ago. I was so excited to shake his hand and he looked at me like a mad man but I didn’t mind.
YES pls keep the VR coverage coming!! Love it :)
A common thing people do is buy a cheap second dedicated router just for air link. Makes the experience flawless!
Is it difficult to setup a dedicated router for airlink?
@@TheSkyHive 5 months later answer but not at all, i have one i bought on amazon a wifi 6, the cheapest one and it works hard it is making a bridge between my home router and my computer, ethernet cable in and out and then my quest and my computer are connecter on that "network" and it is my setup since some years actually it works super well (quest 2 or 3 , same)
The Quest 3 is amazing so far
I'm so chuffed that DF is covering VR more! I actually got into VR like 2 years ago, but my whole experience has really blossomed this year now I've met so many friends and have a decent discord community and we all get together and play Minigolf and many other VR games!
I'd love to see John try out a game like Wooorld which is now free! Most people love to explore around the world and I must say the drone shots people take are incredible to look at, but I love the Geo Guesser style game mode! It's so much more better for me. I personally prefer being in the 360 images than doing it through a flat monitor screen.
3:26 you can actually run it up to 120hz if you have 120hz mode enabled on the quest. (Its going to purge your battery though). Id recommend definitely getting a compatible external battery, at least 10000mah and mounting it to the back.
I was VERY surprised about the quest 3, coming from a Lenovo explorer : The lenses, the overall screen quality, the controlers the AR daaaamn, that stuff is good.
Half life: Alyx + Virtual Desktop = Magic
What's so good about playing games on a virtual desktop, I just don't get it.
you can play wireless steam VR games which the standalone quest headsets dont support . so youc an play steam VR without having the Valve Index VR @@retrowrath9374
@@retrowrath9374 I actually use AirLink most often, but I started playing around with Virtual Desktop and I found the experience was crisper and smoother. Wireless PCVR is awesome.
@@retrowrath9374 the application is called virtual desktop, the game is actually in vr just wireless
Isn’t that game exclusive to the Valve Index? I have always wanted to play it but don’t want an ancient/overpriced VR headset like the Index.
Fun fact Virtual Desktop was made and continues to be updated by only one developer. It's the legendary Guy Godin. When the first VR headsets were released there was no desktop feature withing them so the real OGs remember how we had to remove the headset, launch the game from the desktop on the screen and put the headset back to play. 7 or 8 years ago he created this feature that is now considered a basic one in VR. That is why it is called Virtual Desktop. He later added a ton of features like streaming VR games wirelessly. He actually made it possible even before Meta made their own. Extremely impressive!
PLEASE more VR coverage. The community has been steadily growing, 6+ million active monthly users. But no proper benchmarks for VR games. We kinda have to guess when building a new PC and go by what the general consensus is.
a good router with wifi 6e and a quest 3 is the best wireless VR experience ive ever had. PCVR quality with 0 dips due to wifi. amazing
I’ve got the same experience. The quest 3 radio is incredible. If you enable the performance panel “Oculus Link Detail” in the debug tool, you can see just how steady the Quest 3 tx (green) line is. On quest 2 and Quest Pro this graph was very unsteady. Quest 3 is an incredible upgrade for wireless use-case.
It doesn't absolutely have to be 6e if anyone is wondering. The prices of 6e routers are stupid right now. You can get the same bitrate on a cheaper router. 6e I believe just improves multiple device support if you want to use the router for other things too. If you're getting a dedicated router only for Quest 3 then you certainly don't need a $300 or $400 6e Router. Those manufacturers need to relax with those prices.
Absolutely agree! Mind, I don't even have 6e, I have a tplink ax6000 and it absolutely superbly handles it (also using 4070 with AV1). 0 issues, 0 lag, latency at 30ms.
I have the Quest 3 with Virtual Desktop and a PC with a 4080. The router is a WIFI 6e ( which the Quest 3 supports ), so I can connect to it over the 6g band. AV1 encoding does indeed look better than the other options. Can run it up to 200 mbps. Just as this video says, wireless on the Quest headsets is extremely well done!
we want more video while this! we need more vr!
Another wireless VR tip: if you have a wifi 6 router, dedicate one of the 5Ghz bands exclusively to VR. Give it its own SSID like "VR-Only" or something. Interference can and will cause issues so if you are having issues, give that a shot.
I have been playing VR games for years. And by far my favorite way to play is fully wireless where I simply turn my own body for rotation / leaning / and ducking. I literally never touch the rotation sticks. It is by far the most immersive and natural way to play VR.
It is also my biggest gripe with the PSVR2, which I like, but he cord is such a huge pain point for me.
VR is fantastic, people will soon realize this
Standalone and wireless is the peak VR experience. Being able to strap a headset on and transport yourself (or your friend) to a new place any time and anywhere you want with zero setting up is the dream.
It's still not totally plug and play. Standalone Wireless PCVR still has a lot of settings you'll fiddle with to dial it in because it can overtax either your PC, your headset, or your connection via Wifi.
@@bullit199Where does this fantasy about it being complicated come from? Wireless PCVR with the native airlink requires like three clicks. It's not too hard for 8 year olds (my niece) or elderly people (from my VR social group) using a 2070 laptop and a Windows hotspot.
It only gets tricky if you're an enthusiast with excessive requirements at which point, sure, tinker with Virtual Desktop and optimise your wifi bands and tweak your PC settings. But that's not most users.
There was a bit of fiddling when I first set everything up, but to run? I turn on oculus, I turn on PC. I run virtual desktop, done. Everything just works.@@bullit199
I would love to see an Assassin's creed nexus tech breakdown!
Wireless PCVR is dope. Waiting for foveated rendering for better performance and clarity. Things advance too slowly though.
I bet that streaming code has some John Carmack magic back from when he was working at Oculus
Someone at DF finally discovers PC VR
John has an Index and and a Rift. He's not discovering PC VR, he's discovering wireless VR
Guys... It's optional but completely possible to enable 120 Hz on both Quest 2 and 3, and it's perfectly supported on VD. Quest Pro is limited to 90 Hz, but that's the display panels, PC streaming can do whatevernit wants with the bandwith your wireless setup can support ;)
please more VR Guys, i feel its ripe to go through the roof
I’m looking forward to John’s video comparing the different streaming solutions on Quest. He says here that he found Virtual Desktop to be better than Airlink (built-in), but in my personal experience Airlink comes out on top. Now these two pieces of software are both great at what they do, so its very neck-and-neck. Would LOVE to see an in-depth DF Tech review.
Do you have a 4xxx series nVidia GPU? If you do, and use AV1, it hands down slaughters airlink. If you're using 3xxx or below GPU, then it's a tougher call. AV1 works horrible on anything other than the 4xxx series so it's not even worth trying.
@@TheGigaflop I don't have a 4000 series card, but hearing it could do AV1 on the Quest 3 really made me consider it. I also heard that only VD has AV1 right now, so that's one notch for VD over Airlink!
I had a Quest 2 that I used with Virtual Desktop and my rental modem router box. Gotta say, even with the random stream hiccups and dropouts, just being away from that gahddamn wire was totally worth it. The freedom of moving around is how it's meant to be. Now I'm thinking of buying my own router strictly for VR purposes. My rental box is shared amongst my family, so the network stays pretty busy all day long, hogging precious VR resources, so I think that having a separate router for my PC seems like the only solution to have a consistent VR experience. My wifi situation is the only thing holding me back from replaying HL Alyx. I'd love to replay it. Catching leaping headcrabs with desk drawers is way more fun than it sounds lol
I think what's holding vr games back isn't really the mobile chipset, it's that devs chase the pretties rather than use that performance on stuff that matters.
Think about the games from the late 90s and early 2000s.. Starsiege Tribes, huge maps, 64 player servers.. Think I ran that on a 200mhz pentium chip...
Battlefield 1, huge maps, tons of players.. game from the early 2000s.. That could run just fine on a Quest 3.. Same with Battlefield 2, it could also run just fine on a Quest 3. Even a Quest 2.
Operation Flashpoint, fullblown MASSIVE map military sim.. Ran just fine on a 500mhz athlon.
All the flight sims from the 90s would run just fine on a Quest 3.
The main problem is that devs don't go for gameplay anymore.. Games tend to be really shallow overall these days, just a slight tweak to the formula.
If devs wanted to, we could have huge multiplayer games with tons of players. Devs just go for the prettiest screenshots rather than super deep gameplay.
If we had more devs that thought like the BattleBit devs, we'd have FAR deeper and more complex games. Devs could make more maps super fast as well. Modders would be able to make maps.. it would be great. There's plenty of power in these headsets, it's just misused.
Im glad John enjoying vr. Its so true that vr can give new life to old games. Recently played the Jedi Ourcast 2 and RtCW port by TeamBeef and its freakin awesome.
Quest3 with virtual desktop using AV1 is AMAZING. I am completely blown away. Everyone that tries it is absolutely floored. It is transformative. The pancake lenses.... everything is just so good.
Virtual Desktop is crazy as hell. I only have like 25 mbps down internet but having the desktop wired still makes wireless vr work very well
Quest 2 does 120hz native, I normally do 80/90hz so I can play longer periods and play higher detail like rez
Clarification: Quest 2 and 3 both support up to 120Hz.
Props to Guy Godin and Virtual Desktop. It really is magic.
It is called "AirLink" - how is that hard?
I love my Quest 3 with virtual desktop and Wi-Fi 6E router. It blows my mind every time I put it on 😂 next stop Micro OLED displays. Take my money 😆
The reason latency feels good is because the viewport is rendered wider than the fov and rotated at the last millisecond on the headset
You will notice wireless latency more on controllers
The subtle smile that comes to John's face when he says "wireless PC VR link" says all you need to know!
Virtual desktop wireless pc gaming is really, really good. I was surprised at how good it is as well.
Get a random hard stutter like every 30-60 seconds in wireless link only. Noone has been able to help me with this fix. Someone had suggested that one of the latest firmware updates for Quest caused this. So until it is fixed I will be wired when it comes to PCVR
quest 2 can achieve 120hz, even with virtual desktop, it does causes more heat and you should play plugged in or with an external battery, I have found that 80 fps is just fine for most vr games
Came to say the same. Quest 2 does support 120hz and Virtual Desktop can be set to 120 fps for it too!
Yeah I said that on the original video too.
It's fine, honestly I'm happy they start doing VR analysis, would be great having DF videos on these kind of games
It's 120hz on the quest 2 with a 4090 and Wifi 6 router connected at 1200 mbps, Quest 2 connects at max 180 mbps You should see how Half Life Alyx looks, it looks amazing. Thinking hard about a Quest 3.
I had a quest 1, not a 2, but let me tell you, the lenses on the 3 are unreal. The difference is utterly massive. There is no "sweet spot" where you sit there trying to get the image to focus. You don't even need to dial in the ipd. It's clear no matter what you do.
I regard DF as the best gaming technology channel and watch practically every episode with great enjoyment. However, the teams general ignorance regarding VR is rather disappointing, considering VR is the most forward looking technology in gaming. Graphical fidelity is one thing, being virtually present in the game world is quite another. As the fidelity of presence in the games we love increases, graphics will become a supporting factor to enhance reality. In flat screen gaming, in many cases, graphical fidelity is is the governing factor in determining the sense of realism. For example, the team loves ray tracing, as do I. The goal of ray tracing is to generate a more realistic image. The goal of VR is not just to create an image that is more realistic, it’s to create a reality, in which the player can be virtually present. Sorry for the rant guys, but I think VR technology needs to be taken a little more seriously and given the respect it deserves. I look forward to hearing your opinions of VR when you inevitably start appreciating it a little more. Sorry again for the rant.
I’m hopeful they’ll discover their interest in VR. We’re seeing it happen before our eyes with clips like this. Big time agree with you about VR and the paradox of what DF does. There are some incredible discussions to be had here.
Whats the situation with Asynchronous Space Warp? Is it really worth locking a game to half rate and letting ASW do the rest? Are there good examples of this? Bad examples?
The clarity loss from TAA hits harder in VR than it does on flat panels. Should TAA be skipped for VR titles? What are examples of titles doing this well or poorly?
For streaming, is it better to use H.264 for high bitrates vs H.265 or AV1 with lower bitrates? I know some folks will swear by 264 at 300+ mbps, and never use 265/AV1. How does streaming overhead impact game performance?
John bumped into the topic of why it seems like streaming just works better in VR than traditional gaming. I’d love to hear him dig into this topic. Why is this?
What are the optimized settings for the high end PC VR games? I’d love to hear Alex’s optimized settings for Lone Echo 1 and 2. And especially No Man’s Sky VR, which is particularly “heavy”.
There’s so many topics here!
Using VD on a Pico 4 with a XE75 Pro mesh system, HL Alyx in any room on ultra. Only time I notice latency is in rhythm games, it just feels a little off on Ragnarock on 7+ difficulty. Driving Sims etc with a wheel. The immersion is unreal
I just played through the Half-Life 2 VR mod on steam and it felt like a next get experience. I don't think I can go back to flat screen gaming. It's amazing how well most titles conform to VR with just a little love.
VR/AR is the next big thing
I have a shit connection and it still works super well on Quest.
Got myself a cheap used Quest 2 because of this clip.
Sold my Rift S after playing through HL:A three times in a row when it came out and didn't want to get a new headset until Valve releases their new model.
But 150 bucks for a used Quest 2 with GOOD wireless PC VR was a no-brainer.
Quest Air Link is now crystal clear and runs perfectly on my system.
I think Steam Link for Quest 3 is even better after maxing out the bitrate to 350mb/s and encoding resolution. Very low latency.
Are these options edited in the equest 3 itself? @@mokurai8233
I like that he said "streaming VR games over the internet would be impossible", enters Microsoft with Gamepass cloud launching on Quest 2 and 3 (yes i know its just flat titles currently) . If thats not a clear indication of the way things could go, I dont know what is.
Quest 2 also does 120hz in experimental mode, but no AV1. Wifi 6 vs Wifi 6E on the Quest 3 is another relevant difference. I use my Quest 2 at 120hz with wifi 6 and virtual desktop, and it's a great experience.
I also consider the replacement strap and facial interface mandatory (I use the Meta silicon facial interface and the BoboVR M2 Pro+ with a couple of batteries). I didn't actually find the strap as awful as a lot of people, but I wish I'd swapped them earlier given how much more I started using the headset after I upgraded.
I don't actually care all that much about standalone VR (that might change if they upgrade from mobile phone to laptop grade hardware), but external tracking with light boxes and a corded connection is a massive issue for ergonomics and usability. ...and I'd say ergonomics are still the biggest hurdle facing broader XR adoption.
The biggest missed opportunity of Quest is that they don't allow you to directly plug in any device or console to use on a virtual display.
That would require deals and partnerships to be made outside of Metas' current scope. Right now, the best thing console-wise is Xbox Cloud coming to Quest next month or virtual desktop for traditional gaming with a paired Bluetooth controller
@smittyvanjagermanjenson182 But how come virtual display glasses like the Xreal Air 2 allow plug and play for anything you want? I don't think they made any partnerships and yet they still allow it.
This is absolutely superb.
By and large, this has gone from side quest to main quest with one robust feature:
Wireless transmission!
So what does this mean, then? True freedom when gaming in VR. The next logical step for this tech is to implement CRT's into the headset.
Bravo for this VR info/discussion.
Subbed.
Thumbed up.
Wireless VR really is the way to go. I hope Valve's next "Index" and its electronics is just a rear strap-mounted battery and a small lightweight receiver module/board, and you plug a USB C dongle into your PC that wirelessly sends the video stream to the HMD. It would be a huge misstep if Valve tried to compete directly with Facebook/Meta by making an HMD with a mobile/desktop chip.
Why is it the way to go? Have you ever tried PCVR with display port? Is 1000x better that streaming ! With wireless or usb link you get a compressed image full of compression artifacts and high input lag !
@@HDRGamingHub Because in a properly set-up wireless PCVR rig you get the best of both worlds of a self-contained HMD and the processing power of a fully-fledged high-end gaming PC while being able to move around uhindered by any cables. I played the entirety of Half-Life: Alyx, frequented VRChat in its full non-restricted moddable form, and played Beat Saber completely wirelessly and competitively in PCVR via Virtual Desktop. The latency on my 5GHz AC WiFi router was negligable, and the stream compression just as undetectable after a few tweaks to the settings. Have you tried getting a dedicated router and connecting it to your PC via an ethernet cable? All the input lag you claim that is supposed to be there is just likely a bad set up, or sub-optimal settings, or both. And yes, I tried (and then sold) an ultra-wide FoV Pimax as although the pixel density and view was phenomenal, its weight and multiple cables were cumbersome.
With all that said, what does any of this matter to you anyway? If Valve's next "Index" supports both wireless and wired connections (via DP for you, preferrably), then you can just opt to just not use its wireless feature. I get to not have to worry about twisting up a cable and enjoy turning left as many times as I want without untangling myself from a tether or stepping over the connection link, and you get to sit on a stationary chair while driving virtual cars.
HMDs made for on-foot combat/exploration with hand controllers aren't made specifically for simming and vehicle sims alone. Demanding that they don't optimise it for on-foot combat/exploration while better bulky-but-sim-optimised wide FoV headsets already exist kind of really ignores people like John and myself who want better wireless PCVR features. We don't want whatever minor gains in visual fidelity you like. We want a lightweight wireless HMD such as a Bigscreen Beyond with a battery and WiFi receiver module that's been in talks among the Bigscreen devs and community.
Quest 3 is 120hz through virtual desktop. Quest 2 can also 120hz
I'm using PCVR wirelessly with virtual desktop on quest 3 and somehow it's fine in every room in the house
Streaming in home when configured correctly is just awesome. I use moonlight and sunshine - and while I would never buy a PS Portal - I totally see why Sony is trying that out
For me personally, I had the best experience with a PCIe Wi-Fi 6e card for -$30 US, some high gain antennas ~$10, and then ad-hoc to my PC. It’s not a recommended config because there are Windows behaviors the VD dev can’t control. Once you learn how to mitigate those behaviors though, it’s better than going through router IMHO.
200mbps av1 on virtual desktop looks amazing. A lot of people were turned off vr due to the early headsets. They really need to give the quest 3 a go.
I only have a 3080 but I have a really good wifi 6e router and I do h.264+ at 500 bitrate and it looks amazing. Just so clear. Q3 def the best wireless PCVR headset by a large margin.
200mbit av1 looks better than 200mbut h264+. But 500mbit h264+ looks way (like really way better) than 200mbit av1.
Basically the 4090 users only benefit from av1 if they have a low internet connection. I have a 4090, 7800x3d and a wifi6e router.
Airlink allows to go even higher in bitrate with the h264 codec but is not as smooth as virtual desktop in my opinion.
@@Jan-1337 yeah my router can only handle around 350mbps h264 which isn't as good as 200mbps av1. One day I'll upgrade.
Doesn't it max at like 800 or 1200 though? 200 sounds low.
@@DaveSimkus200 is fine and an achievable bit rate for the non-savvy consumer. Whenever I tried to push past it I experienced issues, but my PC isn't the latest and greatest. So far not many games I play are suffering to a degree that it's "unplayable/unpleasant".
The Quest 3's standalone games are more PCVR-like than the Quest 2, but found AV1 decompression within the Quest 3 headset adds a lot of latency.
I know it's not representative of standalone games but Red Matter 2 on the Quest 3 is basically PCVR quality. It looks amazing.
@@EnnuinerDog it's close. Assassin's Creed Nexus isn't far off HL: Alyx on low settings.
@@EnnuinerDogthat game has me fairly excited for what's in store when the quest 2 is officially retired. Right now we're only at Peak Quest 2, with a few prettied up titles on quest 3
@@smittyvanjagermanjenson182 it's only going to get better for the Q3. 👍
It's only when you'll try Cyberpunk 2077 in VR you will truly understand.
Hey John! Please make review of Assassin's creed Nexus (would love to see comparation between quest 2 and 3). Best wishes to team!
"standalone is pretty good now, it can handle this Quake-like FPS Amid Evil" 😂 while completely missing the likes of AC Nexus, Dungeons of Eternity, Pop1, Red Matter 2 etc
Yay for VR. John sounds like he doesn't believe how good wireless VR is, lol.
I would love to see some videos on Quest 3 vs PSVR2 and PCVR graphics comparisons. With the Quest 3 being around twice as powerful as the Quest 2, I'm really interested to see how it stacks up against higher end experiences now. Also would be cool to see a review of the BigScreen Beyond. It is the first headset with a MicroOLED display, which is the same display technology the Apple Vision Pro will have.
I have a crappy TalkTalk router and Quest 3 Airlink is perfect, no delay and no compression for me , with the router in another room.
Been using the Vive Wireless WIG Adapter pretty much since day one.
Been thinking of upgrading my setup using the Quest 3 since I can use it standalone for the small fun games I like and still have the PC option.
Wireless disclaimer for some people: once I went wireless, higher fidelity games started making me sick. I get major vertigo when I never used to. Even Beat Saber makes me sick standing on the platform.
Wired i’m okay. Like the cable grounds me to reality and i’m not affected as much.
Just a thought for people who haven’t been experiencing PCVR wirelessly and may start.
Sounds like you're latency sensitive. Higher fidelity increases latency. That feeling of vertigo is you moving in a game, and since it's not one to one with your movements, it slightly has to catch back up (which is a very unnatural experience for our brains). I've observed this playing boneworks and then switching to population one. BW was at 60ms, while population one held around 35ms. I can play either, but my brain does need to adjust for wireless connection, as I certainly feel it.
@@smittyvanjagermanjenson182 thats a good point. I don’t think it’s latency though. Ive viewed the performance metrics and its not far off. HTCs WIG based wireless receiver also introduced almost no latency.
I only had problems on high ledges or flying games. Anything in a cockpit is was good. Planes. Tanks. Cars. All good. But standing up and staring down a ledge or walking a beam like in Vader Immortal or Half Life Alex I’d almost throw up and have to close my eyes and sit down until the scene was over.
Wired i’d be good. And i’m 99% sure feeling the cable down my back on my legs and whatnot grounded me to reality more preventing my sickness.
One thing that helped later too was leaving the chaperone floor boundaries on at all times. Make it light but also on. Even playing Spider-Man as long as the boundary reference was on i felt okay.
Guy Godin and Virtual Desktop cured my depression.
I'm ongoing make "DJI Avata VR experience" (FPV DJI drone simulator.. LMAO!!) based on Unreal Engine 5.3. I was design it for stand-alone (wireless mobile VR ~ Android OpenGL ES3.x), but the limitation of stand-alone VR GPU truly killed the immersive. So now I'm going to porting it back to a fully PCVR version (DirectX 12 SM6). And the immersive is truly awesome!! It's feel more realistic in all the way compare the mobile version. Thanks to EPIC for already made Nanite and Lumen works better in PCVR Mode now. I'm still testing in with my old Oculus Rift S (wired and weird VR HMD), but I hope I will have budget to acquire Meta Quest 3 (I already sold my Oculus Quest 2 few months ago) to test my game with wireless PCVR streaming. So wishes me luck! ;)
Be interested in a deep dive on Oculus ASW tech. There is some Carmack magic in there
Quest 3 can easily do 500mbit H264 with 3090 (no AV1), using quest link virtual desktop doesn't go quite as high, latency between 39-50ms. Between Virtual Desktop and Oculus Link, I find Oculus link better visually, and prefer the interface. Very playable at 500mbit on a dedicated wifi5 AP - you can't even see the compression. People with wifi6e can get up to 800mbit, using the oculus debug tool, absolute fidelity at a minor sacrifice to latency. You should definately play more when you get the higher power of the quest 3, PC VR wireless is a much different experience with the last gen headsets. Very interested to follow your journey on VR. Quest 3 you will also be impressed with the new chip, its def not parity for PC, but its leaps and bounds over a native quest 2 experience. Just got to give the devs more time to release Quest 3 upgraded experiences, as they are very low at launch.
So , in some respects, you are still tethered if you use wireless streaming.
The lack of display port is the real problem for multi-player games like apex or cod virtual desktop, the latency is to much on quest 3.
I think they're just pushing the wireless aspect more, it doesn't make sense at all that wireless would be better than a direct USB 3 connection with vastly more bandwidth, which is 2.9GB/s. I have Link cable and ceiling suspension system and there is not cable twisting issues, they did improve link with Quest 3, it's a lot more reliable and doesn't disconnect or have to reboot the headset when you pug in the link in sometimes. You can do 120hz if you enable it in the oculus settings and then Steam, oculus software has the 120hz option which you can use, Quest 2 did the same.
Wireless VR is trash.... Compression artifacts makes the image looking like shit pal.
Doesn't the link currently have performance issues regarding gpu performance?
they should make the quest3 without the internal battery and have it external to make the headset even lighter maybe then the headstrap wouldn't be so bad.
you cannot make hardware like this both powerful and up to date with internal power supplies.. that's not going to happen unless they find a magical new battery solution. much rather have a bigger battery attached to my waist as long as it doesn't wiggle around. they could probably make it as small as the big screen beyond if they made all the hardware except for the goggles external. hopefully valve does this with their next headset because having something on your face isn't pleasant so the lighter the better.
It's sad that most people try quest native games and think that's the only thing that VR has to offer right now. VR will take over when everybody can experience a 4090/WiFi6e setup in a compact/comfy headset at an affordable price.
I don’t know,I just bought the Quest 3 and it’s my first VR device but I’m not impressed .specially with games (only played demos) .I think the AR stuff are a bit more interesting.I was expecting much higher quality movie playback as well.but movies on Quest 3 are basically DVD quality.the interface and OS are also very confusing and the opposite of user friendly.
I’m considering returning it.
haven’t even tried PC VR despite having a 4090.
I feel exactly the same way about VR as I did about Wii motion games and Kinect 🤷🏻
Quest 2 & 3 are better than PS VR2. More accessible and cheaper.
How is cheaper and more accesible "better"? How is high image compression and subpar performance from all the latency in wireless VR headsets "better" than a wired VR headset that is light years ahead? No wonder most of the VR industry is filled with mid products it's because of these joke standards many VR casual consumers have.
@@CheckmateStallioNQuest is the jack of all trades. Not being tied to a wall has been great. Also found that quest 3 works outdoors on a nice day and graphics are roughly xbox 360 quality. Just a more versatile system than a "games only" device.
Best setting for wireless VR? mbps and resolution for quest 2 and 3?
Reshade + 3D SBS
This is feels weird. I’ve been playing this way daily for 3 years. Some have done it for longer, and seeing this feels weird cuz what is old news to me is news to DF!
VirtualDesktop is great, but AirLink is actually also really good if you adjust the setting. You see at default it is set to low bitrate, low resolution and 72 Hz. If you have wifi 6 and a good computer set the bitrate to 200 resolution to 2046, 90hz and ignore tha red warning text and you're golden... Thats to say if your on Quest2. Whats your take one the wifi stability bug on Quest3? (Vid on my channel for more)
Please make a video with setting config for best wireless pc vr expirience.
I definitely am loving my quest three VR headset, and I like the standalone feature very much as well! But why they sell this unit with the worst most uncomfortable head strap is beyond me. Someone’s first impression and playing. It is how uncomfortable it is. I bought the elite strap and it is no better. It is total crap with no cushioning. Found a $30 third-party that is better than the overpriced elite strap. I’m so puzzled by that, because without Comfort, you’re not gonna play. Aside from that I’m loving it. Use a Puppis s1 and it works extremely well! I had trouble with the air link.
it's always been unplayable for me over a 300mb wired connection, extremely compressed image quality and constantly stuttering with the image breaking up causing motion sickness.
Your router isn't good enough than.
Sounds like signal interference or others using the wifi when you are.
Interesting to see wireless getting ahead in terms of latency. I don't own any vr headset yet but 1 thing I would like to ask, what if you create a hotspot on pc or a laptop and connect quest 3 directly to it, is there going to be any difference in experience?
I think some people do that, they have 2 wifi radios, one for internet and one for dedicated link between headset and computer. If you aren't wired to your router, that might be a good way to go, but to do wireless hotspot you'll need 2 wifi radios in your PC. If you're wired to router, I think you'll get similar performance.
Quest 2 supports 120 hz
I have a 3K 120hz tablet and have been streaming 4k120 HDR games to it through Sunshine/Moonlight and I'm blown away at how well it works. It's definitely not perfect and I still prefer wired, but the technology is getting really good.
Thinking about trading in my Index and getting a Quest 3 because wired VR has its downsides and I'd have a lot more space to move in other places other than my office. I barely use the Index in it's current location.
Coming from an enthusiasts VR point of view. I currently have the Index & playing on a 4090.
Had the quest 3 for a month & sent it back. My goal was to play wireless PCVR games with better visual clarity. Which for the most part the Q3 delivers.
HOWEVER. Unless you have the newest wifi6e router it sucks. Both Airlink & Virtual desktop, while much clearer than the index (especially when on the desktop & reading text) the artifacts, latency & lag just wasn't working for me. I'm plugged into my ethernet port running a wifi 5g router with various encoder options & it just isn't enough bandwidth to provide a better experience.
If you have to resort in spending another $200-$300 on a newest router, than I'd rather wait for a better headset with no compromises.
Even if you get wifi6e will be the same dude. It doesn`t change anything 😅 I had the Quest Pro , Quest 3 , Pico 4 and all of them look horrible ! I ended up getting a Pico Neo 3 Link wich has Display Port and looks 10x better than any of these streaming headsets. People who say that streaming wireless looks good they never had a true PCVR headset with display port connection !
Rag on vr cause your eye sight blows, that makes sense. It's pretty easy to change the strap up
The Quest 2 can also do 120 Hz. Just saying.
More VR content!!!!!
John is a typical dinosaur, he hates and judges a lot of stuff before he tries them but once he gives them a go he “sometimes” changes his mind. Lesson to be learned is technology waits for no one.
What did he hate before he tried it? He talked about his experiences (tried it) and issues with original Quest, and how it's improved since then.
@KyloRenNStimpy yes but the things he talks about in this video were available for YEARS before he discovered it. I suppose we're all dinosaurs about certain things, it's hard to keep up
@@Wobbothe3rdwell if you got a bad impression from the quest 2s mobile graphics and a bad impression from game streaming, it honestly wouldn't give you a reason to delve deeper, let alone attempt combining the aforementioned and expecting a positive result. The past few DF clips regarding VR have been outstandingly positive and that's really what we need coming from a channel this size.
120hz is a thing on the quest 2
Quest 3 yes, quest 2 was trash in that department unless one enjoyed subpar picture quality hearkening to the CV1 era, and i'm glad many are finally seeing past the rose tinted glasses.
Better late then never but you can clearly tell they dont know much fyi q2 can do 120hz also lol
Irritating to need to keep using my Q2 for 120hz when i have a Q3 right there, though. :
how can a wireless stream be BETTER than a wired solution?? Are you really sure you were not just enjoying the game so much that it "felt" better? Just can´t be.
what really pisses me off and its not quest fault, but ive been using the same glasses for a decade so needless to say my "2 year" "prescription" has expired. so the only way i can buy the lens insert is with a prescription. I cant tell you how much it angers me i have to have a Prescription to buy a piece of glass. smh so i wont be buying the inserts unfortunately.
Both the "new information" and "technology improved" comments are bad takes. The technology was already this good when John was going on his uninformed rants against in home streaming. The _only_ thing that changed is that he's actively taken steps to rectify his lack of knowledge. This is a good thing, but it doesn't excuse his awful takes on this technology that came before.