Having watched the whole video now, I think it's pretty clear the cause of the failure is an oiling issue caused by the oil probably never getting changed.
EXACTLY! Just one look at the sludgy molasses mess in the oil pan tells you that the oil this Jeep was born with was probably the oil it died with. Most likely NEVER changed. No modern engine design is going to survive that kind of neglect.
Just hit 183k on the Pentastar 6. I change the oil often. 5w-30 is the oil I use. Mobil 1. every 4k filter and oil. No ticking, good oil pressure. No oil burning. Great engine.
Hi Steve almost the same. I have 2. 2018 w/90k perfect no ticking smooth as silk. Amzoil & Penzoil since I’ve had it w/30k on it. The other one is 2021/with 108k. Just got it. it’s a little rough but not ticking. The oil looks good but it’s getting Red Line fuel injector cleaner and Amzoil next week. fingers crossed. 🤞I’m interested in that new Valvaline cleaner oil.
I too have two😂 A 2011 town and country at 200k bought new with 3 miles on her. Never had a problem other than thermo/water pump, oil filter housing. Runs strong. My other is a 2012 town and country. 211k, that I bought with 134k typical thermo/water pump and oil filter housing. Ofcourse other normal maintenance parts on both but nothing major. They both run beautiful 😊 I always hit my oil changes on time and am proactive with the normal wear parts. I love these 3.6 pentastars. Side note, the '11 lost function of a lot of creature comforts early on, while the '12 is holding a perfect score, everything still works and it's loaded. Heated steering wheel even.😅
I just hit 180k on my 2013 JGC. I change my oil every 4k with Castol Full Syn 5w-30 in the summer and 5w20 in the winter. Also no ticking, good oil pressure. On my 2nd oil cooler and about to need a 3rd though. AC compressor just died just in time for Winter. Yes, Great engine if maintained.
I’ve owned several of these engines. Hundreds of thousands of miles, some of that extreme off roading, and the only issue ever was one bad spark plug at 45k miles. Considering the millions of 3.6s out there, I guess if you maintain them most do quite well.
I had a 2015 JK with the 3.6L. I changed my oil every 3000 mile s with full synthetic. In 113,000 I never had an issue with the engine. It ran tip top. Maintenance is key!
This is absolutely the best in-depth explanation of a 3.6 motor. You have totally educated me on how every component in the motor functions in my jeep and I couldn’t be more thankful. Awesome video very well done.!!
Great video and explanation - you obviously really know your stuff! Well, FWIW... I'm @ 233,000 miles on my '12 Rubicon, driving on and off-road in the mountains & dez, towing a large enclosed trailer often, so lots of load and hard work. I do drive it as gently as i can and think that really helps, along with all scheduled maintenance plus extra PM love... Have had minimal problems other than the first #2 cylinder valve seat failure my dealer had seen @22k miles. Covered by warranty and all good since. Failures since include oil cooler cracking, cam phaser wearing out, clutch, 1st gear synchro, transfer case b/c Chrysler didn't make the one part in there that failed. Oil changes every 5,000 miles with Mopar's semi-synthetic oil, change f&r different fluids, manual tranny fluid and transfer case fluid all on factory schedule. Have done lots of PM to keep reliability as high as possible so can be off-road with confidence. @200,000 miles replaced water pump, serpentine belt, plugs & coils, PCV, all hoses, etc. Basically all consumables except alternator. Runs great, like new. Given that it's a Jeep, owned by Chrysler, owned by Fiat, I bought the lifetime warranty when new. That was money well-spent and gives me confidence to keep going. The whole vehicle really is amazing. Great everywhere, crawling, off-road, dunes, snow, towing, hauling, highway. I love it.
Thanks SK99 for your expert teardown and explanation of the finer points of automotive engines of all kinds. I appreciate your point that more plastic parts means less recyclable steel and aluminium, and more junk in the landfill. I also concur that no-one designs for maintainability; arbitrarily different bolt sizes, service items buried under wiring harnesses, plastic clips prone to breakage, etc. Thanks again!
@@900Yugo Not always a winning combination when the plastic parts and the twin turbos are so close to each other in a tightly packed engine compartment.
@@SkylineFTW97 The aftermarket metal ones aren't terribly expensive. Chrysler could be buying them in bulk. It makes me wonder how much they are saving themselves per vehicle by factory installing a cheap failure prone plastic oil filter and cooler assembly that is likely to cost the owner big bucks in labor hours when it needs to be replaced.
The Pentastar still has upper-engine dry starts no matter how often you change your oil. Aftermarket oil preservers that prime oil in the upper parts of the engine before starting solve this issue.
Yes. If you’re not changing your oil religiously then good luck. Have a 2014 jeep jk with 125k. Do my own oil changes since I got it among other maintenance. Runs great. Wirh that said, terrible engine design and pain in ass to do a basic tuneup. From a cost standpoint, Jeep can go scratch with what they are charging now. It’s comical. Next vehicle will not be a Jeep.
The rockers are cheap subpar crap. I changed my oil every 5000. Still had a rocker go out....took it to a mechanic, warranty would only replace the bad one. (they were all bad) Long story short...a few months later tick came back. Stripped it down and found 3 other rockers failing. Replaced them all myself with Melling Rocker arms....haven't turned the key yet....but this Engine can suck a fart out of a dead camels arse.
Had one side of lifters, rocker arms, cam changed in a used 15 grand Cherokee limited. Pentastar tick is very real😢. Seeing you tear it down, I can understand the cost. Thank you for your content and thorough explanation of the process.
I've used 4 Grand Caravan with the 3.6L Pentastar engine. They all worked great because I took care of them. Combined I've done over 300,000 km in these vehicles. They have never let me down.
I had to disassemble and reassemble these engines in automotive class at tech school. I found them to be robust engines in several ways but at the same time there were cheap components. Plastic oil cooler assembly is one of the worst. I believe these are more sensitive to lack of maintenance. Oil pressure is critical in controlling timing and if you run it low or too long on poor oil then it will cause too much slack in the valve train which affects VVT and timing. It's definitely not like the old 3.3 and 3.8l pushrod engines
@@speedkar99 i have a love hate relationship with my 2014 jeep wrangler. Robust vehicle with a solid 5 speed auto, axles, frame. Then also chrylser lets fucking cheap out on everything we can making something that could have been really great, just alright
These engines are also very prone to warping the block and head at the slightest amount of overheating. Which they always do to that oil cooler and cheapo thermostat and water pump 🫠
"Plastic oil cooler assembly is one of the worst." I have a 2017 JK with this Pentastar and it actually started leaking on me and I just put an aluminum one in after trying to source an OEM one from the dealer, which was back ordered for a LONG time. Partsgeek and found an aluminum one for slightly more than the OEM plastic one, local shop did it because I did not feel like putting it in(i think at 66000 miles? I forget) This is something that baffled me, why use plastic in something called an OIL COOLER, when there's hot corrosive oil running through it? I suspect the next plastic thing to go is the valve covers or a sensor of sorts. If these engines are robust as you say, imagine without all of these plastic parts
@@Thegreekmenace95 Which cheapo thermostat? The basic spring coolant thermostat made by the same company or companies that makes all the other thermostats for every car, or are you referring to temperature sensor? Water pumps are water pumps. Again same makers, and they all wear out. Just put in a new one - easy job. The hard part is changing spark plugs and cam sensors because the plastic intake manifolds have to be removed. Changing oil a lot with top syn oil and good filter goes a LONG way to help.
I learned more about my Pentastar in a few minutes than the last 16 years. I like your fast style of presentation. Great job and you really know your engines.
I once worked for a man who had been a Studebaker dealer. He told of visiting the factory and seeing the cam shafts being heat treated. They were turning over blue flames, slowly. He noticed a couple of flames were not working. He pointed it out to the tour guide, who told him not to worry about it!
Every large project I ever worked on involved dozens of engineers designing subsystems with whatever fastener they like, management never cares enough to force anyone to use common fasteners so you find up with as many fastener types and sizes as there are people working in that project. This also applies to wire sizes, connectors, sheet metal thickness and whatever else the engineer has leeway with selecting.
Yeah I hate that, and I'd imagine technicians have gripes about this too. On the production line they don't care because each step gets its own tool. I'd Imagine it would have been cheaper for them to purchase one kind of fastener for everything in bulk.
It’s painful watching this video. This engine is a disaster in numerous ways, from far too much plastic, to minimally hardened metal where it is needed most, to overly engineered everything, making repairs too difficult and expensive. It’s no wonder they’ve allowed the bean counters to ruin the entire brand and put them out of business. The old VV Beetle engine was vastly more reliable and easy to repair.
@@markkent4295 remember everyone, a 5 year old engine failing for no good reason is progress........I avoid all post Fiat Chryslers now. I'm a lifelong mopar guy forced over to GM now.
There is an aftermarket all aluminum oil filter/cooler housing available for these engines. And the reason for the 6 bolts is because the pentastar engines were originally designed for a boosted application.
Thanks for the video! Nice tear down! We have a 2012 JKU, with the first year Pentastar. No major problems yet at 137k miles. We just changed to full synthetic oil and man it made a difference in the feel and sound of the engine. “Spike” runs smooth now and seems a bit peppier. I wish I changed to full synthetic oil earlier. Now that his engine doesn’t sound quite as noisy… it makes me wonder why it sounded that way before…. I think you might have explained this out for us. We’ll just keep maintaining him and looking and listening for any signs and symptoms of trouble. I hope to get another 100k out of him before we rebuild his engine. Stay Safe Folks!!!
I’ve gained so much interest in automotive mechanics by watching your videos. I’m enlisting in summer and the job I chose was wheeled vehicle mechanic cuz Man, this shit looks so interesting and fun. The Science behind all this is amazing and you are showing it to everyone for free. Thank you
It can be fun and very rewarding. I’m not sure I’d want to do it for a living but there are far worse ways. I love to wrench in my spare time. I get more satisfaction from fixing and maintaining cars and bikes than from driving them.
it is so sad to see that modern engines are designed to have multiple fragile plastic parts that will eventually break and be nearly impossible to source. I can't imagine any of the engines presently made surviving longer than 2 decades.
This is a fantastic video! Lots of good information! I have this engine in my 2013 200. Put 75k miles in about 7 years and absolutely no issues so far related to the drive train (fingers crossed). It is designed well but the cutting of corners with too much plastic leads to the downfall of this engine.
Mine is the 3.2 version with 175K miles and runs like NEW. I just bought the Baxter Performance oil filter conversion to spin on adapter to further extend it's life.
My 13 Charger has the Pentastar with 176,000 and still runs like new. I've kept it well maintained and only have had to replace a couple sensors. I think it's a great engine just has too many plastic parts
Great video as always, and we'll timed, just bought a jeep with this engine in it, I think I'm going to cut the oil change interval in half what the factory recomends.
I expected the oil filter housing to make a mess, also... but having owned one for 10+ years now it *never* drips at all. It drains back down far enough that the lid comes off with no mess. The filter/cooler assembly is prone to leaks and Dorman makes an all-metal replacement. But again... 130k miles on mine and no issues. I'm always super careful not to torque it around too much when replacing the filter. These engines have turned out to be real workhorses. Not glamorous, but after a few early problems (2011-2013) they've been rock solid. There's a teardown video out there of a 600,000 mile example from a Promaster van. It actually looks a heck of a lot better than the one in this video- I'd have to guess this one never had an oil change.
Well done! What a great video! I’ve only torn into my Jeeps 3.6 to change plugs and the oil cooler (of course). It’s really interesting to see the entire engine broken down! Thanks for having the patience to film it all, I really enjoyed this. 🙌
Having just changed exhaust camshaft and one failed rocker arm and follower on a 150K motor I was fascinated to see the whole motor pulled. Thank you so much. I can't believe that we accept such inbuilt obsolescence. Great video though!
The Reverse Mount Alternator Bracket was primarily used for Wranglers, so they can raise it above the Engine for water fording purposes. That way the Alternator doesn’t get immersed in water. This unfortunately was the way to go to relocate the Alternator for that purpose. Most Pentastar powered passenger cars have the Alternator mounted low, somewhere below the Cylinder Heads.
I've seen this happen in probably six of these pentastar engine. Usually caused by an oil change done and failure to use synthetic oil then the engine was driving 20k, 30k, 40k etc till the oil lost all viscosity and the cam and lobes ate themselves to pieces.... Once they get eaten to a point that the intake valve will not hardly open the engine will no longer start, especially if it happens to multiple cylinders on the same bank 👍
My 2007 jeep grand Cherokee Laredo v6 3.7 4wd just surpassed 222K miles and she still runs like a champ no funny noises no funny smell no ticking no tacking no vibrations just a work horse riding it till the wheels falls off!
These engines drain oil down into the oil pan when not running because it has no check valve. The result? Dry starts with 3-4 seconds of oil less wear and tear. It may be that the side with the damage gets oil last after a dry start. There are aftermarket devices that provide the check valve to keep oil in the upper end of the engine (I think Baxter makes one that install just under the oil filter). Everyone with a Pentastar engine needs to get one of these. They’re easy to install using basic tools.
With these engines you have to keep up with the oil changes. Sure, there are some plastic parts that need replacement, but if you do, engine lasts a long time. The first gen pentastars suffered of roller rocker arm failure, but I mainly think this is due to poor oil changes. I bought a 2016 GC with the PUG engine and up to now, I havent had issues. Lets hope it keeps that way.
@@speedkar99 Seriously? It's a sludged up engine due to poor maintenance. Clearly lack of lubrication to the top end. Amazing how you'll justify every blown up japanese engine with a perfect maintenance history, but talk trash on every American product regardless of how it was treated.
My in-laws had a T&C I believe it was, and that thing sounded like it was going to blow up when he cold started it. Meanwhile my wife's GC with the 3.3 and 280K would sound like new. American cars have gotten so bad we bought our first Toyota a couple years ago. Here's hoping we get many good years from it.
I'm so glad that I stumbled across your channel to see your teardown of this engine. I see many comments about the oil, the pan residue was horrible, but generally I notice bearing damage when oiling was the primary cause. I don't think that I would buy anything with that engine in it.
Brother, this is a very good video. If you've ever taken apart one of these engines, this is a very informative video, especially the oil issue. A lot of these customers fail to change their oil regularly, and the breakdown in this video allows for a much faster diagnosis. Great job.
Great content, very informative and very interesting to watch. I have a wrangler with pentstar engine. I have it for 13k milage for now and it has been good, fingers cross it will always be good. Also I have already decided to change oil every 5k miles, so hopefully frequent oil change can help the engine to hold better.
Also, I totally agree with your comments about the oil cooler/oil filter housing. Without getting into detail, it was the downfall of my Avenger (although she did make it to 216k miles). Thankfully, Dorman developed an aluminum replacement, although availability is scarce.
@@wilde.coyote6618 Possible but unlikely. Those coolers are a pretty poor design. I have replaced them with OE Mopar parts to see them fail again. Plastic oil coolers might not be the most robust of design.
@@speedkar99 Fortunately no, because the leak was caught early enough. These can leak at a pretty good rate. Very poor design. I have not been able to get an aluminum Dorman one yet, they seem to be out of stock everywhere.
I have a 2017 Wrangler. Two years ago I bought the metal Dorman oil cooler. No troubles after 40k miles since replaced. Original plastic one had 48k miles on it and it shattered when I dropped from less than two feet onto garage floor. I change oil every 4k on the dot.
Thank you very much for doing this, just bought a dodge 2011 journey and as a new immigrant in a country where I have limited resources and have to start over, it is essential for me to keep this vehicle roadworthy. I was looking for a video covering this engine so I will know what to look out for, and how to disassemble if needed. your video was spot on....much appreciated.
heat treat on parts like that when done poorly can be inconsistent leading to some locations wearing quicker. A common failure will be one or two spots that just don't get hardened properly.
Great video! I have nearly 174,000 miles on mine with the 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Other than replacing a couple oxygen sensors, it's held up great. I use PennGrade oil for the oil changes along with some Lucas Oil High Mileage Stabilizer every 5,000 miles.
Chryslers do not like Penzoil or Quaker State. They are made with high sulfur oil from PA., that gells when low temps happen. Actually, no cars really do.
Interesting you say that. I must be lucky. My 2014 Grand Cherokee with 233k, I use only Quaker State every 3k like clock work. No issues yet. I keep on PM. Had to replace oil housing cooler. Other then that suspension work etc. Any more miles this vehicle gives me is a plus. Feel I got my money's worth. Though this will probably be the last jeep I own. Parts are expensive and bad design for doing a tune up. Also to mention I live in central Ohio.
Over a period of time because of the location of the cartridge filter on top of the engine, after 30 minutes the oil drains out of the filter, so at startups, the top of the engine is not getting oil for a couple of seconds. This can lead to upper engine wear (cams, lifters etc.) over time. I just installed a Baxter Performance kit for my 2021 3.6 etorque RAM 1500 which replaces the cartridge with a spin on filter and has a check valve to keep oil in the filter so no more dry starts.
at 4:45 you talk about low compression from the camshaft. Can that also cause low oil pressure? I changed the oil pressor sensor and oil pump and still have low oil pressure and change my oil every 5K
I have a pentastar engine and the manual for the vehicle does not list a regular oil change interval but says to go by the oil life meter. The rate that the oil life was going I would be changing my oil every 15,000 miles (24,000km) which seems like a bad idea so I ignore the oil life meter and change the oil every 4000 miles but I can't see how such a long interval could be a good idea.
Mercedes 2.0 turbo, 14,000 interval. Land Rover 3.0 supercharged, 16,000 mile intervals. The theory is that modern engines run much cleaner than engines of the past. Engine oil is much better than it has ever been and some oils are designed to last 20,000 miles as long as it doesn’t get contaminated by a improperly running engine. However, you must use the specified oil and the specified filter to achieve that change interval. The problem arises when people go to the quick lube shops and still expect to achieve extended drain intervals with substandard oil and filter.
@@larryreno8293 " The theory is that modern engines run much cleaner than engines of the past" And this theory is keeping the salvage yards and engine teardown TH-cam channels with excellent cash flow. Think about it. You just watched a video of a guy teardown an engine due to lack of maint and yet you preach about extended oil changes? Sorry, you're not going to be my mechanic.
@@larryreno8293 Also smaller volumes of oil in modern engines means the oil does not have much margin in it. Yes you do need to have a perfect engine to do the long interval, but most are not perfect, and do not run in a dry dust and contaminant free climate either.
Bought my 2012 wrangler new and still going strong at with a little over 118,000 on it. Nothing has been done then the driver side head recall and this is probably due to my strict maintenance schedules I practice on everything I’ve ever owned
I’ve been looking at Jeeps for several years, researching their attributes and features… Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on if your buying or selling a Jeep I’ve seen several reviews of the Pentastar engine recently that aren’t very favorable… Thus I’ve decided that a Jeep is not in our future, need better reliability… Thank you for sharing this information.
I've seen these engines fail, but it was almost always from lack of maintenance. You have to remember these come in 300's, chargers, challengers, grand caravans, wranglers, etc. 90% of the owners of these vehicles don't even know what an oil change is...so I don't blame the engine
Very good video. I watched it twice. Perhaps one of your best. Thanks for the very detailed description of the valve train. I have one of these in a 2017 Grand Cherokee (120,000 km) so I was particularly interested to see if there was anything, other than frequent oil changes, to help it last longer. I did let the oil change monitor/reminder do its thing only once. At 10,000 km it said I had 40% oil life left. Do what does that mean. It's 40% oil and 60% mystery fluid? Not for me. Usually change it around 7,500 km instead and wonder if I should be doing it sooner. Aside from trying to get a miniscule amount of better fuel mileage I think there is the perception that the 0-20 oil is necessary for proper operation of the chain tensioners and valve phasers. I wonder if this is really so. Seeing the extreme wear on the cam and rockers I am very tempted to go to a heavier oil but also afraid that it would be detrimental for proper tensioner and phaser operation, mostly in very cold temperatures. How does anybody know. Darned if you do darned if you don't! If the cam and rocker heat treat is inadequate heavier oil would be the only thing that might prolong their life. I have not yet replaced the serpentine belt. Glancing at it I thought it would be a simple job because of all the room in front. Was a shocker to see an engine mount and tensioner had to be removed to do the otherwise simple job. Made my spirit sink. Very disappointing to see how so many manufactures are using so many plastic parts but a fuel rail is shocking. Thanks for the detailed video. Soaking in a little bit of vinegar and the toothbrush will be fine. Your wife will never know. The coolant passage did look like that .
I have the old 2007 3.3L engine. Had the same engine on my 1995 caravan too. Got 450,000 Km on the 95, and so far 300,000 km on my 07. The MAIN THING IS to change the oil every 3,000 Km and you too can have a long-lasting engine. Kept both for 17 years each. No real complaints. 1 water pump failed on the 95 due to abuse climbing mountains in California, then driving 200 miles in 105 F heat. WTF? But the old gal hung in there for me. It was wobbling but it didn't let go. Amazing! Praise the Lord. Other than the carbonization of the upper intake plenum I really can't complain. Am waiting this week after 13 months for my brand new Toyota Corolla Cross M20A engine. No more crusty caravans for me! They gave me pretty good service/ fixed 90% myself.
I used to have a 2017 Dodge Journey SXT FWD. Never had any issue with it in the 39 months in my possession. The dealer wanted to buy it back after they messed up the financing during the initial purchase. I was looking for an AWD variant, of it but each day passes and it was getting more difficult to find one in decent shape.
@@speedkar99 My mom and I jumped at the first opportunity to return it. That dealer also wronged me after I pointed out some issues like a dead TPMS on one wheel and a slow leak on another. I picked up the car and slow leak was worse.
I use the “clear flood” method to prime the engine before I start my Jeep. I crank it about three cycles without starting before I start it. It definitely reduces valve clatter at start. I’ve heard some say this causes more wear as the parts would normally get oil faster with just a quick start. I’m still doing this so we will see if it prolongs engine components or kills them faster! I am going to switch to a heavier oil and go full synthetic now that I am out of warranty.
170k on mine. 7000 mile Mobil one oil changes since 60k. Since I replaced the plastic oil cooler that always leaks it has a slight lifter tick until it warms up. Some say this is a "normal" noise. It's still running very strong and I expect to see 200k
So, the oil filters absolutely can and do make a mess down the centre of the engine, it helps to crack it and pull it just a bit out, then let it drain for a minute or two before taking it all the way out. Bigger issue is more the plastic housing itself just breaks. Third party came out with a metal retrofit kit, it's a lot sturdier.
Thanks for the great insight! I have 2014, 3.2 Pentastar with 270k miles. With regular engine oil changes (between 5k - 8k miles) no mechanical problems. I have had the occasional spark plug, coil pack, or fuel injector failure but that is to be expected. I just now had to replace a couple rocker arms on both banks, which I went ahead and swapped them all out, including the lifters. Hopefully, I can get another 270k !
Great video. Did my rocker arms, and lifters at 150k miles. Fixed it quick after a misfire code and could feel the bearing loose on that one. Now to find an oil leak and exhaust smell. Already had both flex pipes replaced.
What an amazing analysis of the 3.6. I was planning to buy a 2018 jeep rubicon. Although I had no intention of performing such mechanical work on a jeep. I would not want all that plastic crap or sich a ridiculously designed motor. Thank you very much for the video.
There's few engines left that are going to be any different. The 3.6L is a fantastic motor unless you do what the owner of this did and never change the oil. Between the 3 Jeeps my Dad had and the one I had, all with the 3.6L, we had nearly half a million miles on the Odo. Highest hit 220k and still ran fine when it was traded in. It's a great engine, and anyone who tries to say otherwise has got their head stuck in the dirt of the 1950s.
That oil control valve you called it was the vvt selinoid it control the internal by oil pressure so when the pressure increases it tells the engine to open and close the valve and for the phasers to oil the cams ECT...
I think the pentastar is a great engine but maintenance is key and definitely requires high quality oil. I have changed the oil every 4-6k miles depending on what kind of driving I’m doing and I never let it idle more than I need to. My 13’ grand caravan has 187,000 hard miles and pulled a trailer about half of those miles. The only failures have been thermostat stuck open and the oil cooler/filter assembly cracked.
I recently rented a Pentastar equipped Charger for a week, I surprised myself by actually liking the car and the engine. On the other hand, liking it as a rental doesn't translate into being willing to own one. I think this one died by an extreme lack of maintenance.
They're good engines when running right. Once they start ticking or leaking it's time to fix and then things get costly. The design intent is good. Just needs these small things corrected.
It would be nice if you guys get your hands on VW boxer 2.1 water cooled engine from 1987 till 1991…What is wrong with pushrods? All those issues with timing chains and timing belts…!
Great! video. I have one of these little engines in a 14 ram 1500 4x4. Handy little truck for running around to pick up electrical supplies. I usually use a 3500 cummins dually and recently an eco diesel. I like my little V-6 gasser. Truck does light duty as I knew that when I bought it. Bought it with 230kms (143k miles). Truck now has 265kms (165k miles) and runs like a top. Wanna know why..cause I change the f'ing oil when it needs to be. Duh!! Tough little engine, btw I only use K&N filters on all my trucks, dually (6.7) spoiled with royal purple oil. Bottom line change your oil. That's why this little V-6 is on youtube for all the wrong reasons. TOG out!!
Yep and synthetic I have an 07 Ram 5.7 hemi 1500 with 490000km never had an issue yet with the motor (internals) like valves or cam lobes. Although I have had to change the water pump, EGR, fuel pump, starter, one of those plastic pulleys, and the a/c fan motor (would only blow cold while moving). 490000 km Engine has never been apart and the tranny has never had a flush just replaced the filters and topped up the tranny fluid after. ATF4 So I am thinking synthetic oil Which I changed every 8-12K (YEP) and only use ATF4
Great teardown narration and editing... makes the old slant 6 seem like a marvel of simplicity... in and out of the car and all new parts rebuilt in an afternoon. I wonder how the parts count and points of failure would compare.
I've heard that these are actually reliable if you replace the oil cooler with a metal one by dorman I don't know how true that is but I have seen them go up to 400,000 mi maybe the newer ones are just more junkie than the older ones
you seem surprised about the various plastic pulleys: aren't they all these days? They seem durable enough too, with the failing part usually the (metal 🙂) bearing
These days it's mostly plastic. This is one of the newer engines I've taken apart. If the bearing isn't pressed in properly or the plastic cracks or wears then it'll give out before the bearing itself wears.
Our pentastar was maintained by the dealer, oil changes as scheduled by the dealer. At 107,000 miles the entire top end had to be rebuilt. During the entire time of ownership it never went more than 6 months without being in the shop for a engine problem. The last two months we owned it, it was in the shop three times for two seperate issues and on the road only 5 days.
I replaced the oil cooler/filter assembly on one of those recently. Was leaking oil really bad. Happens to all of them. This vehicle was well maintained but it still melted the oil cooler housing.
Thanks for the teardown video, I have the same engine in my 2018 Sahara 6-speed with 45k on the odometer. Live in south Texas where it gets HOT! Still on dealership oil 0w-20 and thinking about switching to a full synthetic like Amsoil. What oil would you recommend? 0w-30, 5w-30? I respect your opinion on this and any suggestions would be appreciated! Great video by the way!
Replacing the worn out timing chains & sprockets on my 2012 Jeep 3.6 @ 98,000 miles. While I'm in there doing rockers and lifters. I just remind myself it is still a Chrysler product, took me 35+ years before I bought another Chrysler after owning a 67 Plymouth. Jeez
The pentastar is a brilliant engine and it’s very sad to see this one definitely failed from neglect. I highly encourage people look into the extensive engineering they put into this thing. The only issues it really has are just Chrysler penny pinching and quality control. Such as sand cast issues and overuse of brittle. plastic(mainly oil filter housing and plenum). I know the oil filter housing is prone to cracking and the sending unit o rings are prone to failure, but I would think the o rings fail often because of the units location (at the top of the engine) so most of the time these o rings are dry. These also like to tick and love shredding cam bearings which isn’t the best, but hey every engine has to have something like that go wrong lol. I forgot to mention how beefy the bottom end of this engine is. The whole piston assembly is super durable and the rod caps alone look they’re out of a decent sized V8. I have no doubt that the bottom end of these engines will be very very long lasting.
I've had two of these engines in Grand Cherokees and they've been rock solid. All I've ever had to do is oil and filter changes, which I chose to do every 5000 miles.
The 3.6 in my 2013 Ram has 343,000 miles. I feel that this is a direct result of changing my full synthetic oil at 6,000 miles when driving strictly highway no heavy loads and at 4,000 miles when pulling my 5,500 lb travel trailer in the mountains of West Virginia. Ihave also used Lucas Fuel Treatment since new.
@@speedkar99 2014 I keep oil change interval around 7k miles.. I use 0W30 high quality full synthetic oil.. I never load or rev cold engine.. But when motor is hot, then i'm driving pretty hard..
Some techs at Chrysler dealerships just replace cams/rollers all day long. It can't all be blamed on maintenance, no matter what Pentastar fanboys say, since those engines are so new they're under warranty - if they saw poor maintenance the dealer would not repair them.
Other videos point out that the 3.6 doesn’t have a check valve to hold oil in the upper portion of the engine. This causes dry starts. See baxter performance to change the cartridge style filter to a spin on with a check valve
2011 Caravan with 3.6L. 208k on the clock. 5w-30 synthetic every 5000 miles and I also do a motor flush every other oil change. Does not burn oil between changes doesn’t tick and runs like a clock. Surprisingly one of the most reliable vehicles I’ve had.
Having watched the whole video now, I think it's pretty clear the cause of the failure is an oiling issue caused by the oil probably never getting changed.
Given the sludge in the engine and the piston rings, I agree a lack of oil changes accelerated this design flaw
@speedkar99 what weight oil would you recommend going up to?
@@onlyusechopstiknew
EXACTLY! Just one look at the sludgy molasses mess in the oil pan tells you that the oil this Jeep was born with was probably the oil it died with. Most likely NEVER changed. No modern engine design is going to survive that kind of neglect.
@@onlyusechopstik new oil + marvel mystery oil to reduce varnishing long term
Dude outside in the snow, detailed explanation and good no shake footage.
Thanks. Dedication.
Just hit 183k on the Pentastar 6. I change the oil often. 5w-30 is the oil I use. Mobil 1. every 4k filter and oil. No ticking, good oil pressure. No oil burning. Great engine.
Hi Steve almost the same. I have 2. 2018 w/90k perfect no ticking smooth as silk. Amzoil & Penzoil since I’ve had it w/30k on it. The other one is 2021/with 108k. Just got it. it’s a little rough but not ticking. The oil looks good but it’s getting Red Line fuel injector cleaner and Amzoil next week. fingers crossed. 🤞I’m interested in that new Valvaline cleaner oil.
Same I did the switch to 5w30 Quaker state nomore oil burn
I too have two😂 A 2011 town and country at 200k bought new with 3 miles on her. Never had a problem other than thermo/water pump, oil filter housing. Runs strong. My other is a 2012 town and country. 211k, that I bought with 134k typical thermo/water pump and oil filter housing. Ofcourse other normal maintenance parts on both but nothing major. They both run beautiful 😊 I always hit my oil changes on time and am proactive with the normal wear parts. I love these 3.6 pentastars. Side note, the '11 lost function of a lot of creature comforts early on, while the '12 is holding a perfect score, everything still works and it's loaded. Heated steering wheel even.😅
I just hit 180k on my 2013 JGC. I change my oil every 4k with Castol Full Syn 5w-30 in the summer and 5w20 in the winter. Also no ticking, good oil pressure. On my 2nd oil cooler and about to need a 3rd though. AC compressor just died just in time for Winter. Yes, Great engine if maintained.
I’ve owned several of these engines. Hundreds of thousands of miles, some of that extreme off roading, and the only issue ever was one bad spark plug at 45k miles. Considering the millions of 3.6s out there, I guess if you maintain them most do quite well.
I had a 2015 JK with the 3.6L. I changed my oil every 3000 mile s with full synthetic. In 113,000 I never had an issue with the engine. It ran tip top. Maintenance is key!
160xxx on mine. Every 3k and only rockers had to be replaced.
What weight oil you use ?
I don’t have that particular Wrangler anymore. I traded up for a 2024 Wrangler with 2.0 turbo. In that one I use Amsoil 5w-30 full synthetic.
@@danialphaomega spec is 5w30, so heavier than that i assume?
2014 JKU Rubicon, 161,800 miles on mine. Regular oil changes. Runs like a top.
This is absolutely the best in-depth explanation of a 3.6 motor. You have totally educated me on how every component in the motor functions in my jeep and I couldn’t be more thankful. Awesome video very well done.!!
Great video and explanation - you obviously really know your stuff!
Well, FWIW... I'm @ 233,000 miles on my '12 Rubicon, driving on and off-road in the mountains & dez, towing a large enclosed trailer often, so lots of load and hard work. I do drive it as gently as i can and think that really helps, along with all scheduled maintenance plus extra PM love... Have had minimal problems other than the first #2 cylinder valve seat failure my dealer had seen @22k miles. Covered by warranty and all good since. Failures since include oil cooler cracking, cam phaser wearing out, clutch, 1st gear synchro, transfer case b/c Chrysler didn't make the one part in there that failed. Oil changes every 5,000 miles with Mopar's semi-synthetic oil, change f&r different fluids, manual tranny fluid and transfer case fluid all on factory schedule. Have done lots of PM to keep reliability as high as possible so can be off-road with confidence. @200,000 miles replaced water pump, serpentine belt, plugs & coils, PCV, all hoses, etc. Basically all consumables except alternator. Runs great, like new. Given that it's a Jeep, owned by Chrysler, owned by Fiat, I bought the lifetime warranty when new. That was money well-spent and gives me confidence to keep going. The whole vehicle really is amazing. Great everywhere, crawling, off-road, dunes, snow, towing, hauling, highway. I love it.
Thanks SK99 for your expert teardown and explanation of the finer points of automotive engines of all kinds. I appreciate your point that more plastic parts means less recyclable steel and aluminium, and more junk in the landfill. I also concur that no-one designs for maintainability; arbitrarily different bolt sizes, service items buried under wiring harnesses, plastic clips prone to breakage, etc. Thanks again!
Thanks. So far I think Chrysler is the worse for plastics on engines
@@speedkar99 BMW uses tons of plastics too.
@@speedkar99 Those plastic oil filter housings are famous for leaking. Most of the replacements are aluminum instead.
@@900Yugo Not always a winning combination when the plastic parts and the twin turbos are so close to each other in a tightly packed engine compartment.
@@SkylineFTW97 The aftermarket metal ones aren't terribly expensive. Chrysler could be buying them in bulk. It makes me wonder how much they are saving themselves per vehicle by factory installing a cheap failure prone plastic oil filter and cooler assembly that is likely to cost the owner big bucks in labor hours when it needs to be replaced.
To be fair, ZERO of those plastic pulleys failed before the METAL cam shaft did. 🤣
Haha that is true..
@@speedkar99 😋👍
One of mine failed at 50k 😅
Plastic is a catastrophe waiting especially in the Mojave Desert and thank God our brains ain't made of plastic
They can make plastic 1:1 toy better.
I have this same engine in my wife’s van since 2011. The key is changing your oil and for me that is full synthetic every 5000 miles.
The Pentastar still has upper-engine dry starts no matter how often you change your oil. Aftermarket oil preservers that prime oil in the upper parts of the engine before starting solve this issue.
Full synthetic is actually a blend and is only 1/4 of actual synthetic in it.
Yes. If you’re not changing your oil religiously then good luck. Have a 2014 jeep jk with 125k. Do my own oil changes since I got it among other maintenance. Runs great. Wirh that said, terrible engine design and pain in ass to do a basic tuneup. From a cost standpoint, Jeep can go scratch with what they are charging now. It’s comical. Next vehicle will not be a Jeep.
The rockers are cheap subpar crap. I changed my oil every 5000. Still had a rocker go out....took it to a mechanic, warranty would only replace the bad one. (they were all bad) Long story short...a few months later tick came back. Stripped it down and found 3 other rockers failing. Replaced them all myself with Melling Rocker arms....haven't turned the key yet....but this Engine can suck a fart out of a dead camels arse.
@@tdz69
187k on my 14 👌🏻
Had one side of lifters, rocker arms, cam changed in a used 15 grand Cherokee limited. Pentastar tick is very real😢. Seeing you tear it down, I can understand the cost. Thank you for your content and thorough explanation of the process.
Mine just started ticking at 102k miles. Not sure if I should get it fixed or get rid of the vehicle
There are definitely mixed reviews online about needle bearing rocker arms...
I've used 4 Grand Caravan with the 3.6L Pentastar engine. They all worked great because I took care of them. Combined I've done over 300,000 km in these vehicles. They have never let me down.
Probably worth considering this is used in racing cars
@@heythere6983 No one is racing a 280hp V6...lol
@@gnd111 sure they are
I was surprise that the pistons were not in plastic too…
It was metal and still had a broken ringland...
Yep that’s really bad. Thanks for the video BTW. Greetings from Quebec.
😂
Don't give them an ideas.
They are plated with tin
I had to disassemble and reassemble these engines in automotive class at tech school. I found them to be robust engines in several ways but at the same time there were cheap components. Plastic oil cooler assembly is one of the worst. I believe these are more sensitive to lack of maintenance. Oil pressure is critical in controlling timing and if you run it low or too long on poor oil then it will cause too much slack in the valve train which affects VVT and timing. It's definitely not like the old 3.3 and 3.8l pushrod engines
They also ate cams, combined with the oil cooler doesn't bode well for it.
Internally though it seems well built
@@speedkar99 i have a love hate relationship with my 2014 jeep wrangler. Robust vehicle with a solid 5 speed auto, axles, frame. Then also chrylser lets fucking cheap out on everything we can making something that could have been really great, just alright
These engines are also very prone to warping the block and head at the slightest amount of overheating. Which they always do to that oil cooler and cheapo thermostat and water pump 🫠
"Plastic oil cooler assembly is one of the worst."
I have a 2017 JK with this Pentastar and it actually started leaking on me and I just put an aluminum one in after trying to source an OEM one from the dealer, which was back ordered for a LONG time. Partsgeek and found an aluminum one for slightly more than the OEM plastic one, local shop did it because I did not feel like putting it in(i think at 66000 miles? I forget)
This is something that baffled me, why use plastic in something called an OIL COOLER, when there's hot corrosive oil running through it? I suspect the next plastic thing to go is the valve covers or a sensor of sorts. If these engines are robust as you say, imagine without all of these plastic parts
@@Thegreekmenace95 Which cheapo thermostat? The basic spring coolant thermostat made by the same company or companies that makes all the other thermostats for every car, or are you referring to temperature sensor? Water pumps are water pumps. Again same makers, and they all wear out. Just put in a new one - easy job. The hard part is changing spark plugs and cam sensors because the plastic intake manifolds have to be removed. Changing oil a lot with top syn oil and good filter goes a LONG way to help.
I learned more about my Pentastar in a few minutes than the last 16 years. I like your fast style of presentation. Great job and you really know your engines.
I once worked for a man who had been a Studebaker dealer. He told of visiting the factory and seeing the cam shafts being heat treated. They were turning over blue flames, slowly. He noticed a couple of flames were not working. He pointed it out to the tour guide, who told him not to worry about it!
Ever hear of conduction?
Doesn't matter. The temperature profile across the length of the cam is no longer within spec. Sure it's still hot, but not as hot as it should be.
I will never by a penstar again $$$$ junk
@@russell1265 good job. FCA sucks
@@williambrandondavis6897 ticktickticktick into that camshaft drivetrain
Every large project I ever worked on involved dozens of engineers designing subsystems with whatever fastener they like, management never cares enough to force anyone to use common fasteners so you find up with as many fastener types and sizes as there are people working in that project. This also applies to wire sizes, connectors, sheet metal thickness and whatever else the engineer has leeway with selecting.
Need more ocd bean counters trying to save a cent on each engine by reducing the bill of materials to a minimum. One size to rule them all.
Yeah I hate that, and I'd imagine technicians have gripes about this too. On the production line they don't care because each step gets its own tool. I'd Imagine it would have been cheaper for them to purchase one kind of fastener for everything in bulk.
I love when engineering firms make you do all the cheap parts of agile then shrug off the integration stages
It’s painful watching this video. This engine is a disaster in numerous ways, from far too much plastic, to minimally hardened metal where it is needed most, to overly engineered everything, making repairs too difficult and expensive. It’s no wonder they’ve allowed the bean counters to ruin the entire brand and put them out of business. The old VV Beetle engine was vastly more reliable and easy to repair.
@@markkent4295 remember everyone, a 5 year old engine failing for no good reason is progress........I avoid all post Fiat Chryslers now. I'm a lifelong mopar guy forced over to GM now.
There is an aftermarket all aluminum oil filter/cooler housing available for these engines. And the reason for the 6 bolts is because the pentastar engines were originally designed for a boosted application.
Do you have the manufacturer’s name? How about the rest of the intake?
Thanks Speedkar for going through this exercise on a cold, snowy day.
As for the engine....all that plastic!! I guess that's the era we are in though.
It was a really cold day. The second half of the video was filmed right at the Beginning of a blizzard.
Thanks for the video! Nice tear down! We have a 2012 JKU, with the first year Pentastar. No major problems yet at 137k miles. We just changed to full synthetic oil and man it made a difference in the feel and sound of the engine. “Spike” runs smooth now and seems a bit peppier. I wish I changed to full synthetic oil earlier. Now that his engine doesn’t sound quite as noisy… it makes me wonder why it sounded that way before…. I think you might have explained this out for us. We’ll just keep maintaining him and looking and listening for any signs and symptoms of trouble. I hope to get another 100k out of him before we rebuild his engine. Stay Safe Folks!!!
I’ve gained so much interest in automotive mechanics by watching your videos. I’m enlisting in summer and the job I chose was wheeled vehicle mechanic cuz Man, this shit looks so interesting and fun. The Science behind all this is amazing and you are showing it to everyone for free. Thank you
It can be fun and very rewarding. I’m not sure I’d want to do it for a living but there are far worse ways. I love to wrench in my spare time. I get more satisfaction from fixing and maintaining cars and bikes than from driving them.
Would’t it be wiser to study batteries and electric motors these days? Or bicycle designs? Ride donky…?
it is so sad to see that modern engines are designed to have multiple fragile plastic parts that will eventually break and be nearly impossible to source. I can't imagine any of the engines presently made surviving longer than 2 decades.
I agree...there isn't much to recycle when I scrap thus because half of it is plastic.
You'll be very lucky if they last more than 15yrs, even 15 is a challenge. I think they're designed to last a bit over a decade.
This Ford fanatic I work with was trying to convince me the positives of using composite brake pistons.
It's called Planned Obsolescence..
@@pliedtka I think they're designed to last until the warrantee runs out.
This is a fantastic video! Lots of good information! I have this engine in my 2013 200. Put 75k miles in about 7 years and absolutely no issues so far related to the drive train (fingers crossed). It is designed well but the cutting of corners with too much plastic leads to the downfall of this engine.
Thanks!
good luck. it will fail soon
S E L L I T !!!
It will self destruct.
Or rather just crack, and fall off.
The age of shoddy once again.
Can't wait till millions of Teslas crap out!
Had a 2013 convertible 200 with a 140k miles changed oil every 6k with synthetic the only issue was replacing the oil sensor.
Mine is the 3.2 version with 175K miles and runs like NEW. I just bought the Baxter Performance oil filter conversion to spin on adapter to further extend it's life.
Got 2014 GC with 171K... no major engine issues yet. I'm impressed with the Pentastar.
Any transmission issues?
@@speedkar99 Well that's another story... I just replaced the transmission with a new one...100k Warranty though.
Mines got 166k 2017. Engine and trans original. Take of of it. It will last
My 13 Charger has the Pentastar with 176,000 and still runs like new. I've kept it well maintained and only have had to replace a couple sensors. I think it's a great engine just has too many plastic parts
Keep it maintained and hopefully it'll last. You're right I have peev about the plastic
I used Japanese Eneos oil in a pentastar engine from Napa. Runs well on it.
240K on mine, so far. Oil, oil, oil like my mom says
I just hit a 100K in my 13 2D Jeep. Zero issues. But I change the fluids regular.
@@jamescole6846 That makes the difference.
Great video as always, and we'll timed, just bought a jeep with this engine in it, I think I'm going to cut the oil change interval in half what the factory recomends.
And thicken the oil weight as the engine ages.
@@speedkar99 every 4k or less, so far at 250k so good and no oil cooler change. I can see where that could be a problem though.
I expected the oil filter housing to make a mess, also... but having owned one for 10+ years now it *never* drips at all. It drains back down far enough that the lid comes off with no mess. The filter/cooler assembly is prone to leaks and Dorman makes an all-metal replacement. But again... 130k miles on mine and no issues. I'm always super careful not to torque it around too much when replacing the filter. These engines have turned out to be real workhorses. Not glamorous, but after a few early problems (2011-2013) they've been rock solid. There's a teardown video out there of a 600,000 mile example from a Promaster van. It actually looks a heck of a lot better than the one in this video- I'd have to guess this one never had an oil change.
I think people using this engine in chargers and challengers who drive fast are gonna have more issues
Well done! What a great video! I’ve only torn into my Jeeps 3.6 to change plugs and the oil cooler (of course). It’s really interesting to see the entire engine broken down! Thanks for having the patience to film it all, I really enjoyed this. 🙌
Glad it was helpful! Did you change the oil filter housing too?
@@speedkar99 yea I updated to a 2014 type housing for a less annoying oil filter to change.
Teardown in the snow. Absolute legend.
Having just changed exhaust camshaft and one failed rocker arm and follower on a 150K motor I was fascinated to see the whole motor pulled. Thank you so much. I can't believe that we accept such inbuilt obsolescence. Great video though!
Did you skip on the oil changes as many here claim is the cause?
Great explanation of the worn cam and components!
Thanks!!
The Reverse Mount Alternator Bracket was primarily used for Wranglers, so they can raise it above the Engine for water fording purposes. That way the Alternator doesn’t get immersed in water. This unfortunately was the way to go to relocate the Alternator for that purpose. Most Pentastar powered passenger cars have the Alternator mounted low, somewhere below the Cylinder Heads.
God forbid they place the alternator between the V.
I will go with you on that issue.
But seeing it in bits, I am glad I never bought a 08 Dodge caravan or up!
I've seen this happen in probably six of these pentastar engine. Usually caused by an oil change done and failure to use synthetic oil then the engine was driving 20k, 30k, 40k etc till the oil lost all viscosity and the cam and lobes ate themselves to pieces.... Once they get eaten to a point that the intake valve will not hardly open the engine will no longer start, especially if it happens to multiple cylinders on the same bank 👍
My 2007 jeep grand Cherokee Laredo v6 3.7 4wd just surpassed 222K miles and she still runs like a champ no funny noises no funny smell no ticking no tacking no vibrations just a work horse riding it till the wheels falls off!
These engines drain oil down into the oil pan when not running because it has no check valve. The result? Dry starts with 3-4 seconds of oil less wear and tear. It may be that the side with the damage gets oil last after a dry start. There are aftermarket devices that provide the check valve to keep oil in the upper end of the engine (I think Baxter makes one that install just under the oil filter). Everyone with a Pentastar engine needs to get one of these. They’re easy to install using basic tools.
I have never seen one of these go less than 150,000 miles if the oil was changed.
With these engines you have to keep up with the oil changes. Sure, there are some plastic parts that need replacement, but if you do, engine lasts a long time.
The first gen pentastars suffered of roller rocker arm failure, but I mainly think this is due to poor oil changes. I bought a 2016 GC with the PUG engine and up to now, I havent had issues. Lets hope it keeps that way.
I had a Pentastar engine blow up at 10k miles with regular oil changes.
@@applepoop10 thats just bad luck lol.
Hope it keeps up for you. This was a common problem back then I'm just surprised to see it on a 2018
@@speedkar99 Seriously? It's a sludged up engine due to poor maintenance. Clearly lack of lubrication to the top end. Amazing how you'll justify every blown up japanese engine with a perfect maintenance history, but talk trash on every American product regardless of how it was treated.
My in-laws had a T&C I believe it was, and that thing sounded like it was going to blow up when he cold started it. Meanwhile my wife's GC with the 3.3 and 280K would sound like new. American cars have gotten so bad we bought our first Toyota a couple years ago. Here's hoping we get many good years from it.
I'm so glad that I stumbled across your channel to see your teardown of this engine. I see many comments about the oil, the pan residue was horrible, but generally I notice bearing damage when oiling was the primary cause. I don't think that I would buy anything with that engine in it.
Brother, this is a very good video. If you've ever taken apart one of these engines, this is a very informative video, especially the oil issue. A lot of these customers fail to change their oil regularly, and the breakdown in this video allows for a much faster diagnosis. Great job.
Great content, very informative and very interesting to watch. I have a wrangler with pentstar engine. I have it for 13k milage for now and it has been good, fingers cross it will always be good. Also I have already decided to change oil every 5k miles, so hopefully frequent oil change can help the engine to hold better.
The Pentastar 3.6L engines are widely considered great.
Lol. You’re delusional.
Also, I totally agree with your comments about the oil cooler/oil filter housing. Without getting into detail, it was the downfall of my Avenger (although she did make it to 216k miles). Thankfully, Dorman developed an aluminum replacement, although availability is scarce.
When mine leaked, I chalked it up to the oil change tech, over tightening the oil canister.
@@wilde.coyote6618 Possible but unlikely. Those coolers are a pretty poor design. I have replaced them with OE Mopar parts to see them fail again. Plastic oil coolers might not be the most robust of design.
Did it take out the engine when it failed?
@@speedkar99 Fortunately no, because the leak was caught early enough. These can leak at a pretty good rate. Very poor design. I have not been able to get an aluminum Dorman one yet, they seem to be out of stock everywhere.
There are many companies making replacement oil coolers for the 3.6 that are all aluminum and they are not hard to find.
I have a 2017 Wrangler. Two years ago I bought the metal Dorman oil cooler. No troubles after 40k miles since replaced. Original plastic one had 48k miles on it and it shattered when I dropped from less than two feet onto garage floor. I change oil every 4k on the dot.
Thank you very much for doing this, just bought a dodge 2011 journey and as a new immigrant in a country where I have limited resources and have to start over, it is essential for me to keep this vehicle roadworthy. I was looking for a video covering this engine so I will know what to look out for, and how to disassemble if needed. your video was spot on....much appreciated.
Thank you for this. I would love to see a teardown video on the 3.3/3.8 family of engines to compare.
Yes, especially one with 250k miles on it. I saw one that went to 400k.
Same. Really love those. I have a 3.8 and it hauls a$$ and is reliable.
Was almost sure the damage would be related to the issues with oil coolers failing on those engines. Crazy how only 1 cam got chewed up
Didn't seem like the cooler failed but probably the oil galley going to this cam might have clogged up causing the wear
heat treat on parts like that when done poorly can be inconsistent leading to some locations wearing quicker. A common failure will be one or two spots that just don't get hardened properly.
Great video! I have nearly 174,000 miles on mine with the 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Other than replacing a couple oxygen sensors, it's held up great. I use PennGrade oil for the oil changes along with some Lucas Oil High Mileage Stabilizer every 5,000 miles.
Awesome!
Chryslers do not like Penzoil or Quaker State. They are made with high sulfur oil from PA., that gells when low temps happen. Actually, no cars really do.
Interesting you say that. I must be lucky. My 2014 Grand Cherokee with 233k, I use only Quaker State every 3k like clock work. No issues yet. I keep on PM. Had to replace oil housing cooler. Other then that suspension work etc. Any more miles this vehicle gives me is a plus. Feel I got my money's worth. Though this will probably be the last jeep I own. Parts are expensive and bad design for doing a tune up. Also to mention I live in central Ohio.
Oil additives just dilute your viscosity and additive/detergent package. Use a PEA fuel additive every oil change. Avoid all oil additives.
Over a period of time because of the location of the cartridge filter on top of the engine, after 30 minutes the oil drains out of the filter, so at startups, the top of the engine is not getting oil for a couple of seconds. This can lead to upper engine wear (cams, lifters etc.) over time. I just installed a Baxter Performance kit for my 2021 3.6 etorque RAM 1500 which replaces the cartridge with a spin on filter and has a check valve to keep oil in the filter so no more dry starts.
at 4:45 you talk about low compression from the camshaft. Can that also cause low oil pressure? I changed the oil pressor sensor and oil pump and still have low oil pressure and change my oil every 5K
No. Oil pressure may be due to a clogged gallery, or leaks. Check that plastic oil filter housing and change it out!
I have a pentastar engine and the manual for the vehicle does not list a regular oil change interval but says to go by the oil life meter. The rate that the oil life was going I would be changing my oil every 15,000 miles (24,000km) which seems like a bad idea so I ignore the oil life meter and change the oil every 4000 miles but I can't see how such a long interval could be a good idea.
For the manufacturer great, it gets you out of warranty period, and then the vehicle is scrap, so you buy a new one.
5,000 mile oil change intervals are fine with modern synthetic oils. I wouldn't go more than that with any oil.
Mercedes 2.0 turbo, 14,000 interval. Land Rover 3.0 supercharged, 16,000 mile intervals. The theory is that modern engines run much cleaner than engines of the past. Engine oil is much better than it has ever been and some oils are designed to last 20,000 miles as long as it doesn’t get contaminated by a improperly running engine. However, you must use the specified oil and the specified filter to achieve that change interval.
The problem arises when people go to the quick lube shops and still expect to achieve extended drain intervals with substandard oil and filter.
@@larryreno8293 " The theory is that modern engines run much cleaner than engines of the past"
And this theory is keeping the salvage yards and engine teardown TH-cam channels with excellent cash flow.
Think about it.
You just watched a video of a guy teardown an engine due to lack of maint and yet you preach about extended oil changes?
Sorry, you're not going to be my mechanic.
@@larryreno8293 Also smaller volumes of oil in modern engines means the oil does not have much margin in it. Yes you do need to have a perfect engine to do the long interval, but most are not perfect, and do not run in a dry dust and contaminant free climate either.
We’ll, that was depressing to see all that plastic. Thank you for the extremely informative video.
You are welcome
Bought my 2012 wrangler new and still going strong at with a little over 118,000 on it. Nothing has been done then the driver side head recall and this is probably due to my strict maintenance schedules I practice on everything I’ve ever owned
Same year too with drver side recall also 150000 miles i use 5w30 full highmile supertech oil every 8000 miles all highway driven
Thanks for the video. 240k miles and it just started the dreaded tick so this is my project for the weekend. Appreciate the insight
Best of luck replacing those camshafts
I’ve been looking at Jeeps for several years, researching their attributes and features…
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on if your buying or selling a Jeep I’ve seen several reviews of the Pentastar engine recently that aren’t very favorable…
Thus I’ve decided that a Jeep is not in our future, need better reliability…
Thank you for sharing this information.
I've seen these engines fail, but it was almost always from lack of maintenance. You have to remember these come in 300's, chargers, challengers, grand caravans, wranglers, etc. 90% of the owners of these vehicles don't even know what an oil change is...so I don't blame the engine
True the owners are part to blame, it exaggerated a design flaw
Journeys too
This was both educational and entertaining. Thank you for posting this video! I'm going to carefully disconnect this wire... clip. great!😀
You are welcome!
Very good video. I watched it twice. Perhaps one of your best. Thanks for the very detailed description of the valve train. I have one of these in a 2017 Grand Cherokee (120,000 km) so I was particularly interested to see if there was anything, other than frequent oil changes, to help it last longer. I did let the oil change monitor/reminder do its thing only once. At 10,000 km it said I had 40% oil life left. Do what does that mean. It's 40% oil and 60% mystery fluid? Not for me. Usually change it around 7,500 km instead and wonder if I should be doing it sooner.
Aside from trying to get a miniscule amount of better fuel mileage I think there is the perception that the 0-20 oil is necessary for proper operation of the chain tensioners and valve phasers. I wonder if this is really so. Seeing the extreme wear on the cam and rockers I am very tempted to go to a heavier oil but also afraid that it would be detrimental for proper tensioner and phaser operation, mostly in very cold temperatures. How does anybody know. Darned if you do darned if you don't! If the cam and rocker heat treat is inadequate heavier oil would be the only thing that might prolong their life.
I have not yet replaced the serpentine belt. Glancing at it I thought it would be a simple job because of all the room in front. Was a shocker to see an engine mount and tensioner had to be removed to do the otherwise simple job. Made my spirit sink.
Very disappointing to see how so many manufactures are using so many plastic parts but a fuel rail is shocking.
Thanks for the detailed video. Soaking in a little bit of vinegar and the toothbrush will be fine. Your wife will never know. The coolant passage did look like that .
Glad you enjoyed it.
I don't know why the belt is looped around the engine mount like that.
I have the old 2007 3.3L engine. Had the same engine on my 1995 caravan too.
Got 450,000 Km on the 95, and so far 300,000 km on my 07.
The MAIN THING IS to change the oil every 3,000 Km and you too can have a long-lasting engine.
Kept both for 17 years each.
No real complaints. 1 water pump failed on the 95 due to abuse climbing mountains in California, then driving 200 miles in 105 F heat. WTF?
But the old gal hung in there for me. It was wobbling but it didn't let go. Amazing! Praise the Lord.
Other than the carbonization of the upper intake plenum I really can't complain.
Am waiting this week after 13 months for my brand new Toyota Corolla Cross M20A engine.
No more crusty caravans for me! They gave me pretty good service/ fixed 90% myself.
I love the video buddy, thank you for all the great info you shared with us! Keep it coming, can’t wait for the next adventure!
I used to have a 2017 Dodge Journey SXT FWD. Never had any issue with it in the 39 months in my possession. The dealer wanted to buy it back after they messed up the financing during the initial purchase. I was looking for an AWD variant, of it but each day passes and it was getting more difficult to find one in decent shape.
They wanted to buy it back? Probably because of its inflated price
@@speedkar99 My mom and I jumped at the first opportunity to return it. That dealer also wronged me after I pointed out some issues like a dead TPMS on one wheel and a slow leak on another. I picked up the car and slow leak was worse.
SELL it now!
@@luckyguy600 I already did.
I'd like to see you do a video on general car maintenance. Fluid changes, direct injection servicing etc.
That was my last video on my Lexus...
I use the “clear flood” method to prime the engine before I start my Jeep. I crank it about three cycles without starting before I start it. It definitely reduces valve clatter at start. I’ve heard some say this causes more wear as the parts would normally get oil faster with just a quick start. I’m still doing this so we will see if it prolongs engine components or kills them faster! I am going to switch to a heavier oil and go full synthetic now that I am out of warranty.
Interesting method
170k on mine. 7000 mile Mobil one oil changes since 60k. Since I replaced the plastic oil cooler that always leaks it has a slight lifter tick until it warms up. Some say this is a "normal" noise. It's still running very strong and I expect to see 200k
So, the oil filters absolutely can and do make a mess down the centre of the engine, it helps to crack it and pull it just a bit out, then let it drain for a minute or two before taking it all the way out. Bigger issue is more the plastic housing itself just breaks. Third party came out with a metal retrofit kit, it's a lot sturdier.
Yeah seems like a metal solution works better. Chrysler should buck up and change it to metal too
speedkar dialog so funny!! Love his channel. My 2cents, owner never changed oil....
Thanks
Thanks for the great insight!
I have 2014, 3.2 Pentastar with 270k miles. With regular engine oil changes (between 5k - 8k miles) no mechanical problems. I have had the occasional spark plug, coil pack, or fuel injector failure but that is to be expected. I just now had to replace a couple rocker arms on both banks, which I went ahead and swapped them all out, including the lifters. Hopefully, I can get another 270k !
Awesome
Great video. Did my rocker arms, and lifters at 150k miles. Fixed it quick after a misfire code and could feel the bearing loose on that one. Now to find an oil leak and exhaust smell. Already had both flex pipes replaced.
Did you have to pull the camshaft or timing?
@speedkar99 I did have to pull the camshaft out to get at the lifters.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of oil changes was probably the biggest failure
Like your informative videos.
Could you please make a video about what engines are built well and reliable?
What an amazing analysis of the 3.6. I was planning to buy a 2018 jeep rubicon. Although I had no intention of performing such mechanical work on a jeep. I would not want all that plastic crap or sich a ridiculously designed motor. Thank you very much for the video.
There's few engines left that are going to be any different. The 3.6L is a fantastic motor unless you do what the owner of this did and never change the oil.
Between the 3 Jeeps my Dad had and the one I had, all with the 3.6L, we had nearly half a million miles on the Odo. Highest hit 220k and still ran fine when it was traded in.
It's a great engine, and anyone who tries to say otherwise has got their head stuck in the dirt of the 1950s.
That oil control valve you called it was the vvt selinoid it control the internal by oil pressure so when the pressure increases it tells the engine to open and close the valve and for the phasers to oil the cams ECT...
Right
Man ... all this 10,000 mile oil change stuff. Dumb. Change your oil people. When I was a mechanic I saw so sooo much of this
I think the pentastar is a great engine but maintenance is key and definitely requires high quality oil. I have changed the oil every 4-6k miles depending on what kind of driving I’m doing and I never let it idle more than I need to. My 13’ grand caravan has 187,000 hard miles and pulled a trailer about half of those miles. The only failures have been thermostat stuck open and the oil cooler/filter assembly cracked.
The dude taking this engine apart is one smart cookie.
I recently rented a Pentastar equipped Charger for a week, I surprised myself by actually liking the car and the engine. On the other hand, liking it as a rental doesn't translate into being willing to own one. I think this one died by an extreme lack of maintenance.
They're good engines when running right.
Once they start ticking or leaking it's time to fix and then things get costly. The design intent is good. Just needs these small things corrected.
TRUE
Don't go cheap on the oil changes. Or you will pay dearly. That goes for all new vehicles.
10,000-mile oil changes. Friggin idiots!
It would be nice if you guys get your hands on VW boxer 2.1 water cooled engine from 1987 till 1991…What is wrong with pushrods? All those issues with timing chains and timing belts…!
Pushrods mostly allow for 2 valves per cylinder which means less airflow
Well done video. Good efficient editing.
-My son had this engine in his Jeep Rubicon.
-Cam failed
-Sold !
-Owns Lexus now !!
Good call. Hope he is enjoying it.
Is that code for being a “ bottom”?
Yes, Japanese is still better, despite how hard Pentastar's reliability improve to the max.
Bull shit
Great! video. I have one of these little engines in a 14 ram 1500 4x4. Handy little truck for running around to pick up electrical supplies. I usually use a 3500 cummins dually and recently an eco diesel. I like my little V-6 gasser. Truck does light duty as I knew that when I bought it. Bought it with 230kms (143k miles). Truck now has 265kms (165k miles) and runs like a top. Wanna know why..cause I change the f'ing oil when it needs to be. Duh!! Tough little engine, btw I only use K&N filters on all my trucks, dually (6.7) spoiled with royal purple oil. Bottom line change your oil. That's why this little V-6 is on youtube for all the wrong reasons. TOG out!!
Keep it up with the oil changes and hope it lasts you, since the ram is a heavy application.
Yep and synthetic I have an 07 Ram 5.7 hemi 1500 with 490000km never had an issue yet with the motor (internals) like valves or cam lobes. Although I have had to change the water pump, EGR, fuel pump, starter, one of those plastic pulleys, and the a/c fan motor (would only blow cold while moving).
490000 km Engine has never been apart and the tranny has never had a flush just replaced the filters and topped up the tranny fluid after. ATF4
So I am thinking synthetic oil Which I changed every 8-12K (YEP) and only use ATF4
A mechanic got a 3.6 up to 626,000 miles. The chains failed on it. Pretty impressive. He made a video of the tear down.
Im thinking of going to 5w30 for this engine now. Also changing oil to 5000.00 mile intervals instead of maintenance light suggestion.
Don't follow the maintenance light.
Great teardown narration and editing... makes the old slant 6 seem like a marvel of simplicity... in and out of the car and all new parts rebuilt in an afternoon. I wonder how the parts count and points of failure would compare.
Great video as usual and another reason to lease & release these wonder's of modern technology. Wow, bummer about that tooth brush & bed situation.
Thanks
I've heard that these are actually reliable if you replace the oil cooler with a metal one by dorman I don't know how true that is but I have seen them go up to 400,000 mi maybe the newer ones are just more junkie than the older ones
Once fixed they'll run. The question is, is it worth it?
The Dorman aluminum oil cooler housings are on backorder to my knowledge. Have been for a while too. So, if you can get one...
you seem surprised about the various plastic pulleys: aren't they all these days? They seem durable enough too, with the failing part usually the (metal 🙂) bearing
These days it's mostly plastic. This is one of the newer engines I've taken apart. If the bearing isn't pressed in properly or the plastic cracks or wears then it'll give out before the bearing itself wears.
Our pentastar was maintained by the dealer, oil changes as scheduled by the dealer. At 107,000 miles the entire top end had to be rebuilt. During the entire time of ownership it never went more than 6 months without being in the shop for a engine problem.
The last two months we owned it, it was in the shop three times for two seperate issues and on the road only 5 days.
I love how you allow your family to participate in these projects!!❤️
Me too. Very helpful
That wife of yours is one 'hell of a woman' to put up with you!
Great video man! Shame for the (owner of the) Jeep, 5 years is practically new!
Thanks
Awesome work, I wonder how old that oil is, and if it was the right spec. I only use Ravenol on my Jeep, and it loves it.
Thanks
Any high quality oil of the proper type works wonders. Even Walmart or Costco brand is Okay. You change it at the right interval matters the most.
Excellent mechanic...and an even better educator! Great work on the detailed explainations, Speedkar99! Thanks again!
I replaced the oil cooler/filter assembly on one of those recently. Was leaking oil really bad. Happens to all of them. This vehicle was well maintained but it still melted the oil cooler housing.
Thanks for the teardown video, I have the same engine in my 2018 Sahara 6-speed with 45k on the odometer. Live in south Texas where it gets HOT! Still on dealership oil 0w-20 and thinking about switching to a full synthetic like Amsoil. What oil would you recommend? 0w-30, 5w-30? I respect your opinion on this and any suggestions would be appreciated! Great video by the way!
Replacing the worn out timing chains & sprockets on my 2012 Jeep 3.6 @ 98,000 miles. While I'm in there doing rockers and lifters. I just remind myself it is still a Chrysler product, took me 35+ years before I bought another Chrysler after owning a 67 Plymouth. Jeez
Any wear on the camshafts?
The pentastar is a brilliant engine and it’s very sad to see this one definitely failed from neglect. I highly encourage people look into the extensive engineering they put into this thing. The only issues it really has are just Chrysler penny pinching and quality control. Such as sand cast issues and overuse of brittle. plastic(mainly oil filter housing and plenum). I know the oil filter housing is prone to cracking and the sending unit o rings are prone to failure, but I would think the o rings fail often because of the units location (at the top of the engine) so most of the time these o rings are dry. These also like to tick and love shredding cam bearings which isn’t the best, but hey every engine has to have something like that go wrong lol.
I forgot to mention how beefy the bottom end of this engine is. The whole piston assembly is super durable and the rod caps alone look they’re out of a decent sized V8. I have no doubt that the bottom end of these engines will be very very long lasting.
FCA has brainwashed you...Ass hard.
"just going to carefully disconnect this wire here" *cuts if off haha, speedkar you the best mechanic i know on youtube, so knowledgable
I've had two of these engines in Grand Cherokees and they've been rock solid. All I've ever had to do is oil and filter changes, which I chose to do every 5000 miles.
The 3.6 in my 2013 Ram has 343,000 miles. I feel that this is a direct result of changing my full synthetic oil at 6,000 miles when driving strictly highway no heavy loads and at 4,000 miles when pulling my 5,500 lb travel trailer in the mountains of West Virginia. Ihave also used Lucas Fuel Treatment since new.
this is very solid design! my has over 300k and runs like new.
What year and what's your oil changes like?
@@speedkar99 2014 I keep oil change interval around 7k miles.. I use 0W30 high quality full synthetic oil.. I never load or rev cold engine.. But when motor is hot, then i'm driving pretty hard..
What model car?
@@heythere6983 RAM C/V
Some techs at Chrysler dealerships just replace cams/rollers all day long. It can't all be blamed on maintenance, no matter what Pentastar fanboys say, since those engines are so new they're under warranty - if they saw poor maintenance the dealer would not repair them.
Sad.
Other videos point out that the 3.6 doesn’t have a check valve to hold oil in the upper portion of the engine. This causes dry starts. See baxter performance to change the cartridge style filter to a spin on with a check valve
2011 Caravan with 3.6L. 208k on the clock. 5w-30 synthetic every 5000 miles and I also do a motor flush every other oil change. Does not burn oil between changes doesn’t tick and runs like a clock. Surprisingly one of the most reliable vehicles I’ve had.
That's a lot of flushing.